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From YouTube: Leeds City Council - Infrastructure, Investment and Inclusive Growth Scrutiny Board - 20/01/2021
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A
Can't
see
on
my
screen
whether
yeah
I
can
now
okay
good
morning,
everyone
welcome
to
the
january
meeting
of
the
scrutiny
board
and
before
we
get
onto
the
agenda
proper,
I'm
going
to
go
around
the
table
and
ask
board
members
to
introduce
themselves.
I
won't
ask
the
executive
board
members
and
officers
at
this
stage
to
introduce
themselves
we'll
leave
that
until
the
item
for
which
they're
attending
so
in
our
alphabetical
order,
neil.
B
Thank
you
councillor,
neil
buckley
or
woodley
ward,
lou.
E
Good
morning,
councillor
camilla
mcfood
from
the
gibson
and
hair
hills,
ward.
G
A
Thank
you
and
I'm
councillor,
paul
truswell
and
I
chair
this
scrutiny,
bud.
Okay,
moving
on
to
the
agenda
and
just
running
through
the
housekeeping
items
agenda
item
one
appeals:
there
are
no
appeals,
the
gender
item
to
exclusion
of
the
public.
There
are
no
items
to
which
this
applies.
Gender
item
three:
there
are
no
late
items
agenda
item
four,
I'm
not
aware
of
any
declarations
of
interest,
but
if
you
have
any,
please
shout
up
gender
item:
five
apologies.
A
We
have
an
apology
from
councillor
hussain,
who
was
appointed
to
this
board
by
full
council
last
week,
but
unfortunately
isn't
able
to
attend.
So
we
are
expecting
councillor
reagan
as
a
substitute.
I
don't
think
she's
on
the
call.
Yet.
A
C
Hansen
mulherin
was
was
having
some
child
care
issues
and
may
well
join
the
call
later
in
the
later
in
the
meeting
councillor
as
well.
A
Okay,
that's
fine,
so
that
takes
us
on
to
page
five
of
the
agenda.
The
minutes
of
the
last
meeting
agenda
item
six
and
I'll
go
through
these
page
by
page.
If
you've
got
any
matters
arising
or
any
corrections.
Please
shout
out.
I
understand
that
on
page
five
agenda,
sorry
minute,
50,
that
information
was
eventually
provided
to
councillor
dawson.
Can
I
just
confirm
that
that
happened?
D
I'll
be
the
response
is
further
delays
in
in
improvements
at
molly
station,
but
you
know
it's
not
ideal,
but
I
got
the
response,
which
was
what
I
was
asking
for.
I
also
got
a
response
on
family
woodbeck
from
the
offices
who
attended
from
the
environment
so
that
that
was
very
good
as
well
yeah.
Thank
you,
chair.
A
A
Page
eight,
so
if
there
are
no
corrections
and
no
matters
arising,
our
members
content
for
me
to
sign
these
when
I
physically
can
and
as
a
true
record
yeah
I'll,
take
sansa's
agreement.
So
moving
on
to
agenda
item
seven,
the
financial
monitoring
report
up
to
month.
Seven
at
this
point,
could
I
ask
now:
do
we
have
james
with
us
yet?
A
Could
I
ask
the
officers
to
introduce
themselves
and
then
we'll
go
on
to
the
item?
I
don't
think
we
actually
have
james
lewis
with
us
yet,
okay,
so
martin.
I
A
G
G
The
position
is
outlined
on
page
20
at
page
eight
of
the
appendix,
with
page
20
of
the
agenda
pack
and
and
as
as
at
period.
Seven.
It
very
much
was
a
continuation
of
the
picture
that
we
presented
previously
with
an
overall
overspending
directorate
of
approaching
20
million
pounds
that
had
shown
a
slight
improvement
from
the
month.
Six
position.
G
And
broadly,
the
areas
where
we'd
suffered
particularly
were
inactive,
leads
where
there's
a
significant
under
recovery
of
income
as
a
result
of
the
kovid
lockdowns
active
leads
is
the
responsibility
of
a
different
scrutiny
board.
But
for
completeness
we
highlight
it
here
and
then
there
are
some
other
areas
of
potential
areas
where
we've
most
most,
notably
had
income
reductions.
G
So
we
are
art
and
heritage
in
terms
of
our
ability
to
put
on
events
and
the
income
that
derives
from
there
from
asset
management
and
regeneration,
which
is
in
relation
to
rental
and
commercial
income
that
the
the
department
receives
some
reductions
in
planning
and
sustainable
development
as
a
reduction
from
planning
and
building
fee
income
that
had
shown
an
improving
position,
some
change
in
relation
to
markets
and
the
city
centre,
with
particular
issues
in
relation
to
advertising
income.
Given
the
fact
that
the
advertising.
G
Companies
were
having
a
very
frustrated
set
of
downturn
in
terms
of
their
income
and
then
some
under
recovery
in
highways
that
particularly
in
the
in
the
dlo,
so
so
broadly
chair
that
that's
what
we've
gone
through
previously
and
the
period
seven
is
just
a
continuation
of
that.
G
For
completeness,
I,
I
would
probably
just
say
that
for
the
current
period,
so
so
the
period
seven
there
is
only
until
october,
so
it
doesn't
pick
up
any
issues
arising
from
lockdown
three,
the
the
period
of
additional
lockdowns
in
november,
and
doesn't
pick
up
any
issues
from
the
current
lockdown.
That
started
a
few
weeks
ago.
G
Happy
to
take
questions
chair
on
any
matters
arising
that
might
help
some
of
my
colleagues
or
myself
will
be
able
to
answer.
D
Yeah,
thank
you
chair.
I
suppose
my
question
is
just
picking
up
on
what
phil
said
in
terms
of
this
is
a
report
done
in
october.
When
will
we
become
aware
of
the
projected
further
savings
or
losses
on
income
arising
from
the
lockdown
in
november
and
indeed
the
current
lockdown
we're
going
through
now?
Well,
we
have
to
wait
until
the
end
of
march
before
knowing
the
the
outcome
of
of
the
current
lockdown.
G
So
chair,
if
I,
if
I
respond
to
that,
there
is
a
delay
in
terms
of
reporting
to
executive
board
and
then
on
to
scrutiny,
but
obviously
there's
a
there's,
an
officer
process
that
picks
that
up
with
with
much
more
frequency,
and
we
undertake
that
reporting
review
on
a
monthly
basis.
The
next
deadline
for
that
is
his
report
is
next
is
next
week.
G
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
that
there
will
be
an
increasing
position
of
of
under
recovery
of
income
as
a
result
of
the
the
lockdown
in
november
and
january
from
memory.
I
think
we
were
looking.
We
probably
got
to
a
position
that
just
shy
of
21
21
million
pounds,
so
not
that
significant,
an
increase
given
the
fact
that
there's
been
quite
a
lot
of
further
reductions,
and
that
reflects
the
fact
that
when
we
did
our
modeling
to
start
with,
we
did
some
some
prudent
assessments
of
where
income
would
be
impacted.
G
The
other
thing
to
probably
highlight
is
the
fact
that,
whilst
the
directorate
shows
that
that
20
million
pound
loss
of
income
at
this
stage,
we
have
to
report
that,
because
that's
the
impact
upon
the
directorate's
position,
the
government
as
part
of
its
response
to
covid,
provided
some
an
income
compensation
scheme
that
that
said
where
income
was
lost.
As
a
result
of
certain
activities
subject
to
a
five
percent
de
minimis,
they
would
repay
a
75
p
in
the
pound
for
every
lost
income.
G
So
the
overall
position
in
relation
to
the
the
active
leads
element,
which
is
the
biggest
chunk
of
under
recovery,
will
be
smoothed
out
somewhat,
but
that
will
be
shown
corporately
as
opposed
to
the
directorate
level.
G
It
will
balance
in
terms
of
actually
saying
that
that
we
will
contain
there
or
thereabouts
our
projected
position,
so
it
won't
be
a
balanced
position
in
terms
of
coming
out
as
our
original
budget
said,
but
we
expect
that
20
million
pounds
that
we've
sort
of
sort
of
projected
for
quite
some
time
now
that
that
will
be
there
or
thereabouts.
G
The
the
council's
overall
presentation
over
the
council
of
lewis
is
on.
The
call
at
the
moment
is:
is
that
that
obviously,
the
city
development
sort
of
numbers
feed
into
the
council's
overall
position,
and
my
understanding
is
still
that
the
budget
position
will
be
balanced
at
the
next
executive
board
paper
as
a
result
of
the
income?
G
A
Okay,
thanks
phil
and
councillor
lewis
isn't
actually
on
the
call
at
the
moment,
but
council
harland
is
very
helpfully
informed
us
that
he's
on
a
call
at
the
moment
and
will
be
joining
us
shortly.
Neil
buckley.
B
Thank
you
chair
and
just
looking
at
all
these
all
these
figures,
those
of
us
who
are
not
accountants
or
financial
experts.
It
is
a
blizzard
of
figures,
it's
quite
difficult
to
to
follow,
but
just
looking
at
the
eli
section
in
the
report,
obviously
nobody
can
discuss
individual
arrangements,
but
would
it
be
possible
to
tell
us
what
the
average
costs
have
been
of
the
severance
packages?
So,
in
other
words,
what
the
average
severance
package
would
have
been.
Please.
G
I
I
could
definitely
check
with
colleagues
as
to
whether
that
information
is
available.
So
if
I
check
with
colleagues
in
corporate
human
resources
and
corporate
finance
and
then
what
I'd
suggest
shows
is,
if
we
get
a
note
back
to
becky
on
that
either
explaining
whether
if
it
is
available
and
if
we
can
share
it
detailing
that
or
if
not
explaining
why
it
may
not
be
available.
But
I
definitely
will
undertake
to
go
back
and
ask
colleagues
a
question
on
that.
B
Just
briefly,
chad
just
to
say
that,
obviously,
the
numbers
of
people
taking
advantage
of
this
scheme
this
year
has
been
quite
high.
Is
that
expected
to
carry
on
into
subsequent
years,
or
is
this
regarded
as
a
peak
as
a
one-off
peak.
I
Yeah
I
mean
I'm
not
happy
to
answer
that
council
trustworth,
I
mean
the
earlier
leavers.
Initiatives
in
various
forms
has
been
in
the
council's
toolbox
for
a
number
of
years
when
there
have
been
significant
budget
challenges,
so
there
was
a
significant
use
of
it
in
sort
of
around
2011
12..
It
did
then
continue
into
13,
14
and
sort
of
into
15..
I
So
I
think
I
think,
you'll
probably
see
a
similar
pattern
where
there
is
a
peak
at
this
point.
There
may
be
then
some
future
elements,
such
a
smaller
degree,
will
be.
That
will
have
to
be
an
amended
scheme
because
of
the
restrictions
that
are
now
in
place
in
terms
of
the
caps
and
the
so
that
those
schemes
are
less
attractive
and
therefore
not
as
available
for
us
to
use
to
manage
reductions
in
the
same
way
in
terms
of
the
amount
of
people
the
council
employs.
A
It's
like
so
many
of
these
measures.
The
fruit
gets
higher
and
higher
up
the
tree.
Okay,
I
haven't
got
anyone
else
indicating
that
they
wish
to
speak
or
ask
a
question
on
this
item.
So
with
your
leave,
can
we
move
on
to
agenda
item
eight,
the
initial
budget
proposals
and
I
think
phil
you're
in
the
the
box
seat
again
on
this?
According
to
my
little
chairs
brief,
you
need
to
unmute
phil.
G
I
I
can't
multitask,
I'm
sorry
if
I
just
get
that
document.
If
I
just
get
to
to
that
papers,
if
you
members
can
bear
with
me.
G
Lovely
thank
you
so
where
we
are
on
this,
one
chair
is
you'll.
G
The
scrutiny
board
have
received
some
some
briefings
previously
about
savings
that
were
going
to
be
taken
forward
from
the
directorate,
reflecting
the
need
for
the
council
to
make
an
overall
position
that
balances
is
21-22,
and
this
paper
see
brings
them
these
back
to
to
the
scrutiny
board
in
composite
form.
G
There
are
no
additional
proposals
included
in
the
paper
other
than
the
proposals
that
have
been
presented
and
discussed
to
the
board
previously
and
you'll
recall
that
there's
been
a
number
of
tarantulas
of
those
and
we
haven't
taken
any
forward
since
the
time
that
we
last
delivered
an
update
to
the
board.
G
Obviously
the
the
proposals
in
there
and
again
this
is
a
a
a
a
hefty
paper,
but
there
are
a
number
of
proposals
that
have
been
taken
forward:
that
split
down
into
business
as
usual
proposals
or
service
review
proposals
for
the
business
as
usual
proposals
effectively,
they
will
all
be
delivered
in
the
next
financial
year
and
we've
undertaken
budget
reconciliation
so
that
that
process
is
undertaken
for
the
service
review
proposals.
G
The
overwhelming
majority
of
those
that
were
within
our
area
within
city
development
were
subject
to
consultation
periods.
The
consultation
periods
run
until
early
january
and
offices
are
currently
sort
of
doing
analysis
and
evaluation
reports
on
those,
and
that,
hopefully,
should
mean
that
when
we
get
to
executive
board
in
february
we're
able
to
update
executive
board
on
what
that
public
consultation
has
told
us
and
what
that
means
in
terms
of
each
of
those
proposals
and
whether
there
are
indeed
any
alternative
proposals
that
might
have
flown
from
the
public
consultation
process.
G
In
addition
to
that,
we
are
obviously
having
conversations
with
our
trade
union
colleagues
around
those
savings
proposals.
Now
that
we've
completed
the
elements
of
public
consultation
and
we'll
be
just
be
discussing
with
trade
union
colleagues
what
that
might
mean
as
we
move
into
the
future.
Probably
that's
all
I
wanted
to
say
at
this
stage
chair
because
we're
in
that
that
position
whereby
the
consultation
period
is
closed,
but
we
haven't
yet
completed
the
evaluation
and
drawn
up
the
drawn
up
the
recommendations
as
to
where
we
get
to
with
individual
individual
savings
proposals.
G
The
directorate
is
very
clear,
however,
that
as
part
of
the
need
to
balance
the
2122
budget,
that
if
there
are
any
proposals
that
don't
move
forward,
that
those
alternative
savings
will
need
to
be
provided
either
either
in
terms
of
short-term
measures
to
give
us
additional
time
or
alternative
proposals.
If
those
proposals
aren't
going
to
get
taken
forward
and
I'd
probably
pause,
there.
D
Thank
you
chair.
I
believe,
when
I
read
the
report
yesterday
that
there's
a
section
that
talks
about
the
centralization
of
property
management
and-
and
I
was
going
to
ask-
does
this
bring
about
any
savings
because
I
think
in
the
latest
tranche
of
proposals,
there
are
no
savings.
Specific
savings
identified
in
city
development,
not
in
the
report,
so
does
it
bring
about
savings
in
the
overall
budget.
G
My
my
understanding
chair
is
that
that
paper
is
being
worked
up
in
terms
of
how
that
centralization
occurs.
There's
two
elements
to
it.
So
there's
an
element
of
it
which
impacts
upon
city
development
in
terms
of
asset
management,
but
there's
also
an
impact
in
resources
and
housing
in
terms
of
how
facilities
management,
both
soft
and
up
soft
and
hard
fm
is
delivered.
D
I
suppose
the
only
other
question
I
was
going
to
ask
was:
does
it?
Is
it
likely
to
lead
to
more
pressure
on
eli?
Will
there
be
more
requests
for
members
of
staff
to
have
eli?
You
know
as
part
of
those
savings.
G
Chair,
if
I
pick
that
one
up
up
again,
I
think
I
think
the
general
principle
would
be
the
that,
where
we
have
to
make
efficiency
savings
there'll
be
a
range
of
areas
that
are
looked
at
there'll,
be
procurement,
efficiencies
they'll
be
spending
efficiencies.
There
may
well
be
some
areas
where
there
has
a
staffing
impact.
If
there
is
a
staffing
impact
from
that,
obviously
the
council's
position.
G
We
should
try
to
manage
that
in
the
first
instance
by
voluntary
means,
but
as
I
say
until
that
detailed
work
he's
done
on
that
savings
profile
and
presented
to
executive
board,
we
we
don't
really
have
the
detail.
C
Yeah
hi
we're
kind
of
in
a
bit
of
an
interim
period,
really
aren't
we,
where
we're
waiting
for
these
evaluations,
so
I
guess
one
question
is:
is
is
really
on
the
process?
What
happens
when,
when
the
results
of
that
come
through,
and
then
my
next
question
probably
goes
to
paul
actually
do
we
then,
as
a
board,
get
an
additional
chance
to
comment.
A
Yeah,
I'm
not
gonna
offload
this
question
on
to
becky,
although
I'm
sure
she'll
want
to
comment,
but
the
answer
is
yes,
we
can.
I
don't
know
whether
it
would
require
a
separate
working
group
or
a
separate
board
meeting
becky.
C
A
Okay,
I
mean
I'll
be
perfectly
prepared
as
chair
to
set
up
a
provisional
meeting.
If
we
don't
need
it,
our
members
don't
feel
we
need
it.
A
Then
at
least
it
we
can
just
cancel
it,
whereas
I
think
if
we
suddenly
decide
we
want
a
meeting
tearing
around
like
the
proverbial
blue
ass
flies
would
make
it
I
think
difficult
to
fit
one
in
so
would
it
be
an
idea
for
us
to
set
up
perhaps
a
working
group
meeting
provisionally
that
fits
in
with
the
timing,
because
I
suspect
the
window
of
opportunity
to
comment
on
these
things
as
before
will
be
very,
very
tight.
So
would
that
seem
to
be
a
sensible
way
forward
having
something
in
our
back
pocket.
C
A
Yeah
indeed-
and
I
think
yeah-
it
is
a
bit
of
a
phony
war
period
at
the
moment,
and
I
think
yeah,
so
unless
there
are
any
objections
from
other
members
of
the
board,
we'll
we'll
set
up
we'll
start
consulting
on
possible
dates
for
a
working
group
to
to
have
that
discussion.
If
we
feel
it's
necessary.
A
Okay
right,
I
haven't
got
any
other
indications
that
anyone
wants
to
ask
questions
or
make
a
contribution
on
this
item.
So
thank
you
to
the
officers,
many
of
whom
I
think
will
be
staying
with
us
for
the
next
item
anyway.
A
So
moving
on
to
agenda
item
nine,
which
is
on
page
183,
the
best
council
plan
performance
reports
and
we
have
another
of
a
number
of
additional
officers
who
have
joined
us.
So
I
will
just
go
through
and
ask
you
to
introduce
yourself
to
the
board
and
to
any
members
of
the
public
who
are
watching
and
unhelpfully.
H
H
H
Hi
martin
long
I'm
head
of
employment
and
skills
and
can
answer
any
questions
around
anything
to
do
with
those
kpis
gary.
H
Morning
chair,
my
name
is
chris
schilito.
I
work
with
him
in
the.
B
Intelligency
intelligence
and
policy
service
responsible
for
her
for
compiling
the
report.
A
C
No
chair,
I
I
stood
fiona
down
as
the
relevant
kpis,
are
actually
on
the
agenda
for
next
month's
meeting.
A
All
right,
okay,
thank
you
eve
and
then
lindsay
who
has
now
joined
us.
A
Short
and
sweet
okay,
so
I
think
martin
you're
going
to
introduce
this
part
of
the
agenda.
What
I
suggest
we
do
is
that
we
let
martin
introduce
the
the
kpis
and
then
we
go
through
them
one
by
one,
rather
than
scatter
gunning
across
all
of
them.
So
martin,
the
floor
is
yours.
I
Thank
you
chair.
Perhaps
if
I
just
provide
the
headlines
that
are
outlined
in
the
report,
so
the
first
section
looks
at
numbers
of
people
supported
to
improve
skills
by
the
end
of
quarter,
two,
there
was
3
902
people
who've
been
supported
in
terms
of
improving
skills
that
represents
61
of
the
annual
target
at
the
halfway
point.
So
that's
on
track
in
terms
of
20
of
those
that
participated
from
the
most
deprived,
lower
super
output,
areas
and
51
were
from
maine
backgrounds
in
terms
of
the
adult
learning
program.
I
Specifically,
that
has
been
impacted
by
the
covid19,
where
we've
moved
from
face
to
face
learning
to
online.
So
in
the
1920
there
was
3746
learners
through
the
programme.
That's
a
decrease
of
26
compared
to
the
previous
year
when
there
was
5052
and
for
this
year
key
areas
of
learning
included
english
as
a
second
language,
english
maths
and
employability.
I
In
terms
of
supporting
people
into
work
quarter,
one
was
1788.
That's
42
percent
of
the
annual
target
at
the
halfway
point.
Key
issues
there
in
the
context
of
covid
is
lower
vacancies
in
the
workplace,
which
makes
that
work
strand
more
difficult
and
then
also
supporting
people
remotely
rather
than
face
to
face.
The
report
covers
people
identified
as
neat.
I
That
figure
for
leads
is
seven
point:
two
percent
versus
nine
point:
nine
percent
in
the
previous
year
within
the
report
that
you
have
it
outlines
how
that
looks
in
the
context
of
core
cities.
Where
leads
at
seven
point,
two
percent
is:
is
mid
table
against
other
core
cities
in
terms
of
road
traffic,
killed
and
seriously
injured,
again
a
significant
covert
impact
here.
In
this
case
it's
reduced.
The
number
of
incidents
have
killed
or
serious
injuries
on
the
highway.
I
It's
34.2
down
on
the
previous
year,
so
the
the
actual
numbers
is
173
for
this
reporting
period,
and
the
graph
that
you
have
in
your
paper
shows
that
that's
a
consistent
reduction
throughout
this
period
when
covid
is
impacted
on
on
those
numbers
and
also
the
table
in
the
paper,
shows
that
those
reductions
are
against
all
user
classes
on
the
highway
in
terms
of
initiatives
through
the
neighborhood
policing
team.
I
That
shows
that
there
was
1471
drivers
that
neighborhood
policing
interacted
with
through
various
measures
outlined
in
the
report
and
also
what's
called
the
spark
project
where
a
further
575
drivers
were
involved,
as
initiatives
to
try
and
influence
and
reduce
driving
behavior
that
could
cause
ksi's
and
then
on
young
people.
The
number
of
ksis
also
reduced
from
25
in
2019
to
17
in
2020
on
bus
passenger
numbers.
The
figures
in
here
are
for
2018
and
2019.
I
So
for
2019
it
was
67.4
million.
That's
a
1.35
increase
on
2018,
albeit
these.
These
figures
will
dramatically
reduce
in
2020
as
a
consequence
of
covered,
as
I'm
sure
members
will
appreciate
and
then.
Finally,
the
the
report
covers
flood
risk
and
the
number
of
commercial
and
residential
properties
that
have
been
moved
out
of
flood
risk
areas
between
the
period
2017
to
2020.
I
I
As
part
of
that
flood
scheme,
other
flood
schemes
moving
forward
flood
alleviation
scheme,
two
has
been
on
site
for
the
past
12
months
and
we
are
in
the
process
of
receiving
confirmation
from
treasury
on
the
21
million
pounds
of
additional
funding
to
allow
us
to
do
the
second
step
of
that
project
and
then
also
we
expect
in
the
next
few
weeks
to
be
officially
starting
on
site
at
hotly
in
terms
of
the
flood
scheme
there.
But
that's
a
headline
of
the
issues
in
the
report
chair
and
we're
happy
to
receive
questions.
I
A
Thanks
very
much
martin.
So,
as
I
indicated
at
the
start
of
the
agenda
item,
I'm
gonna
run
through
the
kpis
one
by
one,
starting
on
page
one.
Eight
five
3.3
the
percentage
of
working
age
leads
residents
with
at
least
a
level
four
qualification.
Do
we
have
any
questions
on
that.
A
No
before
I
move
on
to
the
next
one,
I
welcome
counselors,
lewis
and
mulherin,
who
have
now
joined
us,
although
you've
on
a
different
page
in
terms
of
my
tiles
I'll,
try
and
keep
an
eye
on
you,
so
that
takes
us
to
3.4
number
of
people
supported
to
improve
their
skills.
Do
we
have
any
questions
or
contributions
on
that?
A
Turning
the
page,
3.5
number
of
people
supported
into
work
any
questions
or
comments,
no
gender.
I
I
mean
on
that
one.
I
did
ask
for
further
information
at
chairs
brief
regarding
the
digital
connection
or
digital
engagement
of
people
who
would
otherwise
be
receiving
training
face-to-face,
I
think,
got
quite
a
comprehensive
response
back
which
I
think
I
shared
with
with
all
of
you
3.6
on
page
187,
progress,
8,
scores,
questions,
comments,
no.
D
Sorry,
sorry,
my
question
is
around
the
knees,
and
particularly
around
the
number
of
not
loans,
because
about
from
bristol
who
are
the
bottom
of
the
list
were
the
second
highest
in
the
number
of
not
known
so
how
we
continue
work
to
reduce
a
number
of
not
knowns,
because
this
sounds
more
like
a
administrative
issue
rather
than
tackling
the
neat
problem
in
itself.
C
Mark
martin
is
probably
the
most
familiar
with
how
those
numbers
are
constructed
and
if
and
if
he
doesn't
know,
then
we'll
get
you
an
answer
back
later
to
later
date.
So
sorry
for
the
past,
but
martin
do
you
know
the
background
to
that.
H
I
think
that
the
not
known
figures
is
mainly
where
there's
lots
of
factors
where
people
move
between
areas
and
so
they've
left
school,
but
they've
not
registered
as
universal
credit
and
things
like
that
so
they're,
not
in
the
system
anyway.
So
we
know
they're
not
officially,
neat
because
they're
not
registered
anywhere
as
unemployed,
but
they've
left
school
and
we
don't
so
it's
it's.
It's
a
difficult
administration
to
have
to
try
and
track
them
down.
There's
quite
a
lot
of
work
in
children's
services
to
to
kind
of
unpick.
H
H
I
think
when
the
figures
do
come
out,
I
think
the
not
knowns
should
improve
significantly
because
of
the
number
of
the
number
of
young
people
that
have
stayed
on
in
education
because
they
uncertainty
in
the
labour
market
at
the
moment-
and
we
know,
there's
been
a
big
increase
in
the
september
intake.
So
I
expect
that
not
known
figures
will
come
down
when
those
when
those
figures
are
released,
but
there's
quite
a
lot
of
data.
At
the
moment
that's
been
delayed,
that's
not
coming
out
for
for
different
reasons,
and
that's
one
of
them.
A
C
Really
it
was
about
the
not
knowns,
but
last
time
we
discussed
this,
we
did
have
quite
a
long
discussion
about
the
not
knowns
and
about
the
fact
that,
as
a
city,
we
used
to
have
a
fairly
robust
system
for
tracking
school
leavers
and
that
disappeared
oh
gosh,
five
six
years
ago,
and
we
we
kind
of,
came
to
the
conclusion
that
that
was
partly
responsible
for
our
increase
in
not
knowns,
because
schools
weren't
being
chased
to
to
provide
that
data,
and
I've
highlighted
a
little
bit
on
my
it's
33.7.2,
where
it
says
for
20,
21
22,
a
new
case
management
system
is
being
implemented
to
support,
monitoring
and
there's
a
strong
partnership
commitment,
reinforced
by
the
need
to
mitigate
the
disruption
to
learning
that
caused
by
covid19,
but
specifically
around
the
the
case
management
system.
C
We
did
discuss
this
last
time.
We
looked
at
these
kpis
and
I
said
I
really
welcome
that
because
I
thought
it
was
it
was
lacking
and
it
was
something
that,
as
a
city,
we
used
to
do
really
well.
So
I
just
wondered
if
there's
an
update
on
this
case
management
system,
which
I
think
was
going
to
involve
more
people
being
employed
to
do
the
tracking,
which
is
essentially
what's
needed,
to
to
bring
down
the
not
gnomes.
A
H
So
I
mean
that
that's
that
sits
within
children's
services,
so
I
can't
give
a
kind
of
comprehensive
update.
I
know
that
they
are
working
quite
hard
on
that
system
and
back
in,
I
think,
was
march
april.
They
did
increase
the
team
to
make
sure
that
was
in
place,
but
I'd
have
to
I
can.
I
can
go
and
speak
to
colleagues
and
children's
services
and
get
an
update
for
you.
If
that's
if
that's
helpful,.
C
C
We
have
to
provide
that
data
three
times
a
year,
our
intended
destinations
and
then
our
actual
destinations,
and
what
used
to
happen
was
that
there
was
a
team
of
people
on
the
phone
and
door
knocking
to
track
down
all
of
these,
not
knowns
and,
and
the
city
figure
was
was
pretty
good.
So
it
seems
to
me
that
if
that
team
is
is
back
on
the
case,
we
can
bring
it
bring
it
down
and
it
would
be
great
to
have
it
a
lot
higher
than
it
is.
A
Yeah,
okay,
martin,
if
you
could
raise
that
issue
with
colleagues
in
children's
services
and
maybe
send
us
a
note
back
responding
to
the
issues
that
counselor
dies
raised,
yeah
we'll
do
okay.
I
don't
see
any
more
questions
on
this
one.
So,
moving
on
to
page
one,
eight
nine
three
point:
eight
number
of
people
killed
or
seriously
injured
in
road
traffic
collisions.
I
don't
know
whether.
A
Lindsay
wants
to
elaborate
on
this
for
us.
Clearly
it's
one
of
those
kpis
that
has
been
distorted
and
diminished
by
covid.
So
it's
it's
difficult
for
us
to
make
too
much
out
of
them
this
year.
J
See
well
chair,
if
I
say
something,
and
then
perhaps
I
asked
lindsay
particularly
to
make
some
comments
around
vision,
zero,
which
I
know
you
touched
on
at
the
last
meeting,
so
martin
as
earlier
indicated
that
there's
been
significant
reductions
and
the
latest
information
that
we
have
is
that
that's
continued
throughout
the
rest
of
the
period,
so
we're
looking
at
all
casualties
for
the
year
of
2020,
being
approximately
down
35
from
1907
to
1235
road
casualties
in
terms
of
killed
and
seriously
injured,
down
36
from
356
to
228
in
2020.
J
K
Yeah,
of
course,
gary
will
and
just
to
know
some
of
the
feedback
that
we've
had
from
the
the
police
in
in
recent
months
is
that
although
there
is
a
decline
in
ksi's
and
what
they
are
finding
is
that
there's
a
there's
been
quite
an
increase
in
speeds
and
and
quite
a
significant
jump
from
you
know,
maybe
10
20
miles
an
hour
over
the
limit
to
quite
considerable
amounts,
and
that's
partly
due
to
the
the
decrease
in
volume.
K
So
people
have
got
that
opportunity
more
so
so
we
are
seeing
some
quite
different
behavior
during
the
covered
period,
even
though
there
is
that
drop
so
that
that's
slightly
alarming
in
terms
of
vision,
zero,
it's
it's
something
that
that
we're
working
on
at
the
moment
and
I'd
be
happy
to
to
provide
some
some
feedback
on
on
that
progress
at
the
the
next
meeting.
So
we're
working
through
it's
almost
a
different
approach
to
road
safety.
K
It's
a
it's
an
approach
that
was
almost
invented
in
sweden
in
the
late
90s
and
it's
just
starting
to
trickle
through
to
to
policy
now.
But
it's
looking
at
road
safety
from
a
different
perspective.
So
it's
not
the
traditional
sort
of
engineering
and
education
method.
It's
looking
at
a
much
more
holistic
approach.
So
it's
about
going
out
to
communities
it's
about
corporate
responsibility,
it's
looking
at
vehicle
safety!
K
So
it's
all
about
reducing
the
severity
and
the
target
is
that
we
have
no
killed
or
seriously
injured
by
2040
and
that's
the
the
key
date
that's
been
adopted
by
by
most
authorities
in
in
the
uk.
So
it's
a
real
step
changing
and
how
we
look
at
road
safety.
It's
a
huge
challenge
for
us
and
we
need
to
start
working
with
with
different
organizations
and
different
people
to
try
and
make
a
real
impact
on
how
we
do
that
and
using
our
resources
slightly
differently
as
well.
A
Okay,
thank
you
lindsay.
I
think
that
the
board
would
want
to
take
up
your
offer
to
pursue
this
further
in
more
detail
at
a
future
meeting.
This
is
a
care
side
that
always
exercises
as
a
board,
and
almost
every
year
we
have
a
separate
session,
usually
including
police,
colleagues
and
others,
to
to
unpick
some
of
the
figures.
So
certainly
that's
something
that
we
can
look
at.
A
We
also
promised
ourselves
that
we
would
possibly
make
the
whole
issue
of
road
safety,
the
subject
of
a
more
detailed
inquiry
and
we've
delayed
that
for
obvious
reasons
of
getting
people,
especially
contributors
campaigners
from
the
community.
But
I
see
no
reason
why
we
can't
have
another
item
sometime
this
municipal
year,
I'm
perhaps
starting
to
scope
out
what
the
inquiry
when
it
does
take
place
in
due
course
might
look
like
and
who
we
might
involve.
I've
got
lou
jonathan
and
then
neil
so
lou.
C
Thanks
chair
thanks,
everyone
mine's
mostly
a
request
for
further
information,
please
just
for
award
breakdown
of
the
ksi
data,
so
I
think
this
is
a
really
great
opportunity
for
us
to
really
dig
down
into
the
hot
spots
that
most
of
us
are
already
aware
of
in
our
wards,
but
just
to
see
if
the
mapping
of
those
ksa
ksa
stats
match
up
with
what
we
already
know
and
welcome
your
work
lindsay
and
just
to
say,
we
have
a
very
active
army
community
road
safety
group
and
we'd
be
very
willing
to
join
in
with
that
scoping
work.
C
A
A
J
Yeah
we
can
pick
that
up
and
that's
that's
no
problem
happy
to
do
that,
and-
and
just
for
completeness,
it's
just
a
reminder
that
so
what
we
have
is
the
collisions
that
are
reported
to
the
police
via
their
systems.
There
will
be
a
lot
of
information
locally
about
minor
bumps
that
will
not
be
on
the
system
and
depending
on
which
part
of
the
city
you
are,
and
this
is
a
national
issue,
the
there
might
be
10
there
might
be
hundreds
of
minor
bumps,
but
they
will
not
be
on
the
system.
J
F
Thank
you
chair,
I'm
gonna
start
the
back
the
end
of
this
and
work
my
way
back.
3.8.14
is
the
only
mention
I
think
we've
had,
since
we
spent
quite
a
bit
of
time
on
the
motorcycle
trial
and
I'm
just
wondering
if
we
can
have
a
more
thorough
update
as
to
what
has
happened
so
far.
F
More
importantly,
when
we
are
expecting
this
trial
to
start
just
to
give
some
some
meat
to
what
it
is
that
we
we
didn't
actually
spend
quite
a
lot
of
time
on
and
on
that,
I'm
just
I
read
last
week
and
I'm
just
reading
the
article
again
milton
keynes,
derby,
nottingham,
some
others
have
dipped
into
a
pot
from
the
department
for
transport
to
allow
electric
cars
into
as
a
trial
period
into
bus
lanes.
F
What's
our
officer's
view
on
electric
vehicles
being
allowed
into
bus
lanes
as
a
trial
initially,
and
if
I
can
go
back
to
the
vision,
zero,
I
I
do
welcome
another
look
at
another
perspective
on
how
we
can
reduce
ksi's
from
what
you
said.
Lindsey,
very
briefly,
it
does
seem
like
a
very
touchy
feely
sort
of
let's
you
know,
try
and
speak
with
people
about
their
speeds.
Where
I
do
feel,
enforcement
is
also
needed.
The
camera
partnership
review,
which
was
instigated
from
work
from
from
this
board.
F
I
understand
I
know
that
that
has
concluded
now,
yet
we
we
haven't,
as
a
board,
had
sight
of
that.
I've
had
sight
of
the
of
the
findings,
which
is,
let's
just
keep
things
as
they
are,
which
I
think
we
were
all
as
members
really
unsatisfied
with
and
for
for
that
review
to
have
concluded
without
any
input
from
elected
members
from
anywhere
across
west
yorkshire,
which
is
my
understanding,
I
feel,
is
just
completely
unsatisfactory.
F
Gary
you'll
be
aware:
I've
since
requested
another
review
of
the
ring
road
in
my
ward,
where
there
was
that
very
serious
accident
where
four
young
lads
lost
their
lives,
and
I
just
can't
believe
that
the
even
following
what
we're
all
saying-
and
you
know
the
visions
here
and
all
the
rest
of
it-
that
it's
just
status
quo.
Let's
just
keep
it
as
it
is
because
from
what
I
got
from
the
answer
from
from
your
department
was
well
people,
don't
like
speed
cameras.
F
Well,
people
don't
like
speed
cameras
because
they
speed
through
them
and
then
they
get
fined
and
then
they
get
points.
So
I
think
we
really
need
to
look.
Have
a
real
look
at
this.
It
needs
to
come
back
to
this
board.
We
need
to
discuss
it.
I
am
quite
exercised
about
this
chair,
so
I'll
wait
now
to
see
what
the
what
the
answers
are.
A
J
Yeah
sure
and
lindsey
please
come
in
if
you
want
to
add
to
it
so
in
terms
of
the
motor
cycles
in
burst
lane,
so
it's
as
per
the
note
we
did
with
the
scrutiny
committee,
consider
this
late
sorry
last
year
and
we
made
a
recommendation
around
the
a65
at
that
time.
We
we
said
that
we
would
endeavor
to
get
the
trial
in
place
in
this
financial
year.
We're
still
trying
to
work
to
that.
J
Obviously,
things
have
been
complicated
by
covid
and
pressure
on
resources
and
the
active
travel
work
that
colleagues
who
who
are
the
same
colleagues,
that
would
progress
this
bus
lane
trial
would
be
involved
in.
But
we
were
acutely
aware
that
we
we
made
that
commitment
and
we
are
chasing
it
down
and
trying
to
deliver
deliver
it.
As
per
the
report.
J
A
Gary,
just
just
on
that,
just
just
to
interrupt
from
from
the
chair,
I
did
ask
for
a
little
more
information
on
this
particular
section
at
chairs
brief,
and
I
noticed
it.
It
wasn't
expanded
because
I
anticipated
there
would
be
questions
from
board
members,
but
I
think
you
can
confirm
that
the
motric
cycle
action
group
were
closely
involved
in
identifying
this
as
the
pilot
project.
J
Well,
we
certainly
took
on
that
board
their
comments.
They've
made
comments
on
a
number
of
corridors
coming
in
and
we
took
those
on
board,
but
on
balance,
our
recommendation
was
to
go
with
the
scheme
on
the
a65
and
we're
still
in
correspondence
with
the
group
that
obviously
they
continue
to
to
make
representation
around
this
topic.
Yeah.
J
It's
just
that
the
pressure
on
on
the
individuals
in
the
team
that
will
be
delivering
this
is
being
impacted
by
covid
and
the
emergency
active
travel
funding
late
last
year,
and
then
that
being
changed
to
active
travel
funding
schemes
and
the
need
by
the
dft
to
spend
money
very
quickly.
Yeah
has
deflected
some
resources,
but
we
are
acutely
aware,
as
I've
said,
that
we
do
need
to
honor
that
commitment
that
we
made
and
we
are
intending
to
do
that
in
terms
of
the
electric
cars
in
bus
lanes.
J
Yes,
that
that
was
considered.
Oh
it's
going
back
some
time
ago
now,
on
balance,
the
recommendation
and
and
feedback
from,
I
think
it
was
councillor
richard
lewis,
at
the
time,
was
that
we
wouldn't
open
up
the
bus
lanes
for
electric
vehicles.
It's
a
very
similar
sort
of
discussion
around
motorcyclists,
really
we're
trying
to
give
priority
to
to
the
buses
and
public
transport.
J
In
some
circumstances,
taxes
are
allowed
in
and
in
some
circumstances
cyclists
are
allowed
in
and
we're
trying
to
limit
the
number,
because
once
you
start
to
increase
the
numbers
of
vehicles
in
the
bus
lanes,
you
then
start
to
have
an
impact
on
the
the
the
public
transport
services.
So
it
is
a
fine
line
and
and
with
the
the
growth
of
electric
vehicles,
which,
hopefully
for
for
a
number
of
reasons,
will
be
significant
in
in
quite
a
short
space
of
time.
J
Now
I
I
think
that
that
concern
will
be
realized
very
quickly,
so
that
was
the
stance
when
it
was
last
considered.
Yes,
vision,
zero,
I,
yes!
I
I
personally
I'd
welcome
scrutiny
to
have
more
input
into
the
development
of
the
strategy
around
vision,
zero.
This
is
going
to
be
a
very
important
document
for
us
all.
J
It
will
involve
enforcement
as
councillor
taylor
referred
to,
but
it
can't
stress
enough
really
it's
going
to
be
a
completely
whole
systems
approach
to
to
road
safety.
It
will
be
very
different
to
the
traditional
way
of
doing
road
safety.
J
If
at
a
very
simple
level,
I
can
just
explain
it
in
the
past,
it
seems,
rose
safety
has
relied
on
some
of
our
officers
going
into
schools,
for
example,
to
do
road
safety
training
and
then
for
officers
to
actually
identify
where
the
hot
spots
are
and
come
up
with
engineering
measures.
This
is
completely
different,
where
it's
not
just
down
to
the
council.
This
is
down
to
every
business,
every
individual
to
consider
how
they
approach
moving
about
the
city
and
and
their
choice
of
vehicles.
J
It
will
involve
changes
to
vehicle
construction
it
until
we
have
the
scrutiny
committee
and
the
development
of
this
strategy
further
explained
to
you.
It
is
quite
difficult
to
explain
the
significant
change
in
approach,
but
it
is
very
exciting,
but
it
will
be
very
challenging
to
to
deliver
because
it
will
require
input
from
all
and
reaction
by
all
to
get
anywhere
near
a
vision.
Zero
outcome
counts
with
taylor's
comment
about
cameras.
J
Absolutely
I'm
conscious
that
there
are
several
emails
outstanding
to
councillor
taylor,
which
we
are
chasing
up.
My
understanding
of
the
position
is
that,
at
a
local
level
the
criteria
remains
unchanged
because
at
a
national
level,
there's
been
a
call
to
review
the
criteria
for
safety
cameras
and
again
chasing
that
up
very
recently,
because
I
suspected
the
question
might
be
asked
today.
J
My
understanding
is
that
at
a
national
level,
this
review
is
being
undertaken
with
a
view
to
it
being
completed
later
this
year.
Again,
I'm
happy
to
come
back
to
becky,
with
perhaps
a
written
statement
to
that
effect,
if
that's
helpful,
but
obviously
we
we
and
the
police
are
trying
to
have
an
input
into
that
review.
We
haven't
had
a
response
yet,
but
it's
our
request
sort
of
builds
on
their
feedback
from
these
scrutiny
meetings
about
wanting
to
be
involved.
J
K
Yeah
I'll
just
pick
up
on
councillor
taylor's
points
as
well.
Just
just
to
reiterate,
it
is
a
much
more
thorough
approach.
If
we
look
at
enforcement,
for
example,
it's
about
different,
finding
different
ways
to
enforce.
So
it's
not
just
about
you
know
the
static
cameras,
it's
about
changing
legislation
to
allow
others
to
be
able
to
enforce.
At
the
moment,
civil
enforcement
officers
in
in
london
boroughs
have
very
different
powers
to
those
outside
of
london.
It's
about
changing
how
our
civil
enforcement
officers
can
enforce
as
well.
K
If
you
go
over
the
speed
limit,
automatic
braking
systems,
those
kinds
of
things
so
a
lot
of
it
isn't
in
the
hands
of
of
council
itself,
but
we
can
support
it
or
we
can
make
sure
that
we
have
things
like
bus
standards
that
come
through
through
the
combined
authority
and
that
those
vehicles
that
we
procure
have
have
certain
standards
that
protect
our
drivers,
but
also
protect
people
outside
of
the
vehicle.
F
Yeah,
just
briefly
the
point
on
the
ev
electric
vehicles
in
bus
lanes.
I
do
take
that
point.
If
we
start
prioritizing
everybody,
then
the
the
point
is
really
diminished,
but
if
there
is
trials
that
are
going
on,
I
would
appreciate
if
we
could
keep
an
eye
on
the
outcome
of
those.
I
know
I
will
be,
but
just
might
feed
into
some
work
that
that
we
might
be
looking
looking
at
some
point
in
the
future.
F
I
I
think
it's
really
important
that
the
response
from
the
camera
partnership
review
comes
to
this.
We
members
have
site
of
that
gary.
I
think
that
needs
to
be
done
very
very
urgently,
because
I
know
that
the
outcome
is
available
and
just
thank
you
chair
for
preempting
our
questions
on
the
motorcycle
trial.
If,
if
you
do
get
any
further
information
on
that
I'd
appreciate,
if
we
could
also
have
sight
of
that,
okay
brady
wants
to
come
back
on
me
for
that
cheers.
A
D
Yeah,
thank
you
chair.
First
of
all,
I
mean,
I
think
the
figures
sure
are
very
distinct
improvements.
I
think
it's
a
congratulations
to
everybody
involved,
whether
it's
the
police,
community
safety
highways
and
it's
a
great
example
of
partnership
working
delivering
results.
Let's
hope
we
can
improve
and
hit
our
target
by
before
2040..
D
My
question
is
similar
to
council
cunningham's.
It's
a
request
for
more
information,
particularly
related
to
the
the
spark
initiative
which
looks
to
have
been
successful,
but
it'd
be
nice
to
know
where
the
hot
spots
were,
and
in
particular
I
mean
in
my
world.
One
of
the
areas
has
to
be
included
with
scotchman
lane,
which
is
the
road
from
molly
to
battley.
D
Maybe
it's
people
speeding
to
get
out
of
batting
into
molly.
I
don't
know,
but
I'd
like
to
see
if
we
can
get
any
more
information
about
the
smart
campaign
and
where
the
successes
were
in
terms
of
increased
enforcement.
K
Yeah,
I'm
happy
to
to
have
a
further
chat
with
you,
councillor
dawson,
and
try
to
come
to
or
try
and
find
some
some
ways
to
address
those
issues
and
certainly
with
the
police
in
hand.
So
if,
if
you
want
to
give
me
some
more
details
in
terms
of
if
there's
particular
times,
I
know
that's
not
always
the
case,
but
we
can
certainly
put
that
through
to
the
the
officers
that
are
working
in
spark
and
and
they
can
address
that
on
their
their
patrols.
J
Lindsay
this
is
it's
fair
to
say
that
this
is
our
joint
initiative
with
the
police,
where
we're
we're
helping
to
fund
this
work.
It
builds
on
work
that
they
did
in
bradford,
but
we
had
similar
sort
of
issues
in
leeds
and
it
is
a
trial,
but
it
is
trying
to
address
some
of
the
anti-social
behavior
that
we
see,
which
sometimes
leads
to
criminal
activities,
and-
and
so
we,
we
we're
holding
a
lot
of
store
on
this
initiative.
K
That's
right,
and
I
will
say
as
well
that
it
has
been
impacted
somewhat
with
with
kovid
as
well,
so
the
the
ability
to
have
the
number
of
officers
that
we
wanted
to
have
out
has
has
been
a
lot
less,
but
we've
still
had
some
really
fantastic
results,
as
the
the
figures
show.
So
so,
certainly
if
we
were
operating
at
full
strength,
I
think
it
would
be
even
more.
A
C
A
Okay,
I'm
sorry
about
that.
I've
got
neil
buckley
as
the
next
speaker.
B
Yes,
thank
you,
sir,
and
it
was
just
a
brief
comment
going
back
to
the
motorcycles
in
the
in
the
bus
lanes
actually,
and-
and
I
fully
agree
with
what
councillor
taylor
said
about
this-
it's
interesting:
isn't
it
because
there's
a
great
emphasis
at
the
moment
on
cycling
and
obviously
that's
a
very
green
activity,
but
motorcycling
it's
not
as
green,
but
I
think
it
can
be
promoted
as
a
contribution
towards
fewer
emissions
and
a
reasonably
green
way
of
troubling
and
also
actually
perfectly
safe.
B
And
I
just
wanted
to
to
ask
one
question
that
we've
got
this
trial,
which
is
going
to
be
coming
up.
But
is
there
any
possibility
that
a
motorcyclist
might
just
assume
that?
Because
he
can
do
that
on
the
a65,
that
the
rest
of
leeds
isn't
the
same,
and
therefore
he
could
be
inadvertently
fine
for
doing
something.
You
shouldn't
do
two
miles
away
or
something
like
that
and
is
the
reason
why
we
haven't
had
a
pan
leads
trial,
simply
a
practical
one
that
is
difficult
to
put
the
infrastructure
in
place.
A
Okay,
thanks
for
that,
neil
before
gary
and
lindsey
come
back.
Could
I
just
say
that
my
broadband
seems
to
be
fluctuating,
so
if
I
disappear
again,
could
would
the
board
agree
that
councillor
dawson,
as
we've
previously
indicated,
should
take
the
chair,
okay
right
gary
olinsey?
Would
you
like
to
respond
to
councillor
buckley.
J
J
So,
in
terms
of
the
motorcycle
lane,
questions
yeah,
the
the
the
changes
need
to
be
advertised
and
they
will
clearly
be
signed.
If
you
recall,
when
we
we
discussed
this
in
some
detail.
Last
year,
there
has
been
a
concern
that
allowing
motorcycles
in
into
bus
lanes
might
result
in
a
road
safety
issue.
J
There
have
been
trials
in
other
parts
of
the
country
where
our
feelings
were
that
they
were
inconclusive
as
to
whether
they
worked
positively
or
not,
and
so
there
has
been
a
a
concern
about
a
possible
road
safety
impact.
J
But
following
consideration
last
year
the
recommendation
was-
and
it
was
agreed
that
we
would
have
this
trial
and
that's
what
we're
seeking
to
do
and
it
will
be
and
it
one
of
the
concerns
that
council
buckley
has
raised
is
is
yeah,
is
is
very
much
there
and
and
we
will
need
to
mitigate
that
by
making
sure
it's
clearly
signed
on
site
and
that
it's
effectively
communicated
and
equally
in
other
places.
J
At
the
moment
it
bus
lanes
and
the
vehicles
that
are
allowed
in
and
not
are,
are
clearly
shown
and
signed
in
accordance
with
the
national
rules
and
rigs.
We
have
to
follow
so
someone
who
has,
I
have
to
say,
pass
their
driving
test
and
knows
the
highway
code
will
be
able
to
determine
whether
they're
allowed
in
into
specific
corridors
or
not
so.
But
these
are
the
issues
that
we
have
to
face
and
we'll
be
dealt
with
over
the
next
few
weeks
and
months.
A
Okay,
I'm
still
having
one
or
two
connection
problems,
I'm
hoping
that
people
can
still
hear
me.
The
next
indicator
was
3.9
number
of
children
and
young
people
killed
and
seriously
injured.
But
I
assume
that
our
discussion
on
the
previous
item
has
subsumed
that
3.10
is
satisfaction
with
a
range
of
transport
services.
A
Okay,
3.11
number
of
passengers
boarding
buses
in
the
leeds
district?
Does
anyone
have
any
questions
on
that?
I'm
afraid
I'm
flying
blind
at
the
moment,
because
I
can
only
see
myself,
I
can't
see
anyone
else
at
the
moment.
B
Yeah,
it
was
just
a
really
quick
point
about
that
specific
item.
You
just
mentioned
about
passenger
numbers.
Obviously
the
numbers
we've
heard
are
historic
and
before
the
pandemic-
and
it's
not
just
with
a
pinch
of
salty
it's
just
complete
history
now
and
so
just
to
make
the
point
that
we've
all
made
before
the
figures
for
next
year
and
the
year
after
are
going
to
be
a
whole
new
world
and
we're
just
going
to
have
to
see
what
happens
in
all
sorts
of
ways
to
passenger
numbers.
A
Okay,
thanks
for
that,
neil
I'll.
Take
that
as
a
comment
rather
than
as
a
question
so
that
takes
us
to
3.12
on
page
195,
increasing
city
center
travel
by
sustainable
transport.
A
A
A
A
A
Okay,
I'm
back,
it
seems
to
have
improved
ever
so
slightly
right.
That
takes
us
on
to
agenda
item
10
the
referral
to
the
scrutiny
board
by
council
of
firth
in
our
pre-meeting.
A
We
decided
that
the
way
we
would
handle
this-
and
I
will
introduce-
I
will
allow
the
participants
to
introduce
themselves-
is
that
we
would
give
councillor
first
five
minutes
to
speak.
Obviously,
he's
also
put
his
views
in
writing
via
the
letter
to
council
mary
harland
that
we
will
then
have
the
two
executive
board.
A
Members
then
mark
mills
who
will
introduce
the
officer
report
that
we've
got
then
we'll
throw
the
match
out
to
questions
to
any
of
those
four
people
from
the
board
and
then
we'll
give
councillor
first
a
short
time,
possibly
just
a
minute
sam
to
to
come
back.
A
So
if
we
could
start
by
asking
councillors,
cooper
and
lewis
to
introduce
themselves.
E
L
Good
morning,
councillor
james
lewis,
one
of
the
deputy
leaders
and
executive
board
member
for
resources,
which
covers
asset
management.
M
Sam
thank
you
chair
councillor,
sam
firth,
hairwood
ward,
who's
made
the
scrutiny
request.
N
Mark
mills
head
of
asset
management
overseeing
at
london
property
because
it
covers
the
disposals
as
well
as
strategic
planning
of
our
estate.
M
Thank
you
very
much
chair
and
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
bring
this
to
the
board
today
and
obviously
the
reason
for
my
letter,
as
you
may
have
read
already,
is
in
relation
to
the
accelerated
capital
receipts
and
estate
rationalization
program
that
the
administration
has
taken
forward,
given
the
understandable
financial
pressures
that
they're
under
at
this
moment
in
time.
M
The
reason
I
wanted
to
raise
this
matter
with
the
board
is
in
particular
relevance
to
the
dispose
of
a
number
of
historic
buildings,
but
particularly
east
lodge
on
the
temple
museum
estate,
which
I
know
that
many
of
us
will
know
very
well
when,
throughout
our
times
living
in
leeds
me
born
and
bred
in
leeds,
we
will
have
gone
through
the
north
gate
along
colton.
M
Road
and
entry,
walk
and
pass
through
east
lodge
and
west
lodge
that
form
the
two
gatehouses
that
survive
on
the
temple
museum
estate,
and
I
have
a
serious
concern
that,
unfortunately,
the
inc.
Well,
the
not
this
correct
amount
of
consultation
and
information
has
been
provided
to
allow
for
this
decision
to
be
properly
scrutinized.
M
And
therefore,
I
would
like
the
scrutiny
board
to
take
up
a
an
investigation
to
see
really
the
implications
of
that
decision,
especially
in
relation
to
east
lodge
and
also
more
generally,
in
terms
of
how
that
should
reflect
on
the
program
itself
and
future
programs
that
come
forward.
That
may
result
as,
as
we
never
know,
what's
going
to
come
forward.
Given
the
current
circumstances.
M
Understandably,
I
want
to
first
of
all
just
give
a
bit
of
background
about
east
lodge
very
briefly
grade
two
listed
built
in
1742.
There
is
two
gate:
houses
on
elm
tree
walk
the
east
and
the
west
lodge.
They
are
effectively
symmetrical
and
up
until
the
transfer
over
to
the
council
in
1922,
when
it
was
bought
from
lord
halifax,
the
retained
as
effectively
the
house's
own
used
for
staff
that
were
working
on
the
estate
and
since
then
it
became
a
social
housing
property
by
iran
about
the
1960s
and
effectively.
M
Since
then,
there
was
a
discussion
brought
forward
by
then
the
executive
member
for
communities
councilor
cooper,
who
raised
the
idea
and
approved
the
idea
of
selling
off
the
property
in
the
late
2018,
and
unfortunately,
that
decision
itself
was
based
on
lack
of
consultation.
M
The
fact
was,
there
was
no
consultation
with
the
friends
of
temple
news
and
park,
a
group
that
in
itself
was
set
up
to
be
that
liaison
between
the
council
and
the
community
to
ensure
that
they
could
actually
have
an
active
part
in
not
only
fundraising
for
the
estate
but
maintaining
it
because,
ultimately,
when
it
was
sold.
If
you
look
back
into
the
conveyancing
reports,
it
was
sold
as
clause.
M
Enough
is
another
question.
So,
as
a
result,
I
would
like
the
scrutiny
board
to
look
into
the
consultation
to
look
into
whether
it's
appropriate
in
this
case
of
what
has
happened,
especially
when
it
comes
to
this.
I
also
feel
it's
short-sighted.
I
know
I've
been
quoted
in
the
press
as
calling
it
an
excuse.
M
The
the
pandemic
is
being
used
as
a
reason
to
sell
this
property.
Let's
not
forget.
This
has
been
going
on
since
2018
and
as
I
have
outlined
in
my
resp,
in
my
request,
a
timeline
of
those
meetings
based
on
the
minutes
of
the
liaison
meetings
between
the
friends
of
temple,
museum
and
the
council,
agreed
with
council
officers.
M
Those
notes
that
actually
there
was
discussions
taking
place,
but
those
discussions
were
on
the
basis
of
the
property
would
be
retained.
No
discussion
has
actually
taken
place
until
the
1st
of
december
2020,
where
actually
the
council
in
an
active
way,
was
actively
consulting
with
the
friends
of
temple,
news
and
park
and
effectively
the
community
on
the
sale
and
that
the
sale
was
going
to
go
ahead,
and
I
hope
that
the
evidence
that
I
provided
is
a
basis
for
that
as
well.
M
So
I
hope
that
that
provides
a
very
brief
overview
of
where
I
feel
this
scrutiny
request
could
go,
and
I
really
would
like
to
see
that
you
know
we
make
sure
that
we
don't
look
short-term.
Yes,
we
understand
that
we
need
to
realize
the
the
money
that
needs
to
be
available.
Given
the
financial
situation,
but
this
is
a
historic
part
of
the
estate
temple
newseum
as
it
was
stated
in
the
original
conveyancing
report.
Okay,.
E
Yeah
thank
you,
chair
and,
and
I'm
really
pleased
to
be
at
scrutiny
board
so
that
I
can
actually
add
some
balance
to
the
documentation
that
you've
all
received
in.
Regarding
this
scrutiny.
Referral
I've
got
to
say
this
has
been
an
ongoing
situation
in
temple
news
and
with
our
ward
councillors
and
with
our
community.
E
I've
got
to
say,
sam
that
I
think
that
you're
wrong,
and
also
to
tell
you
that
as
ward
members,
we
do
talk
and
engage
with
our
communities
a
lot
and
we
did
so
over.
The
issue
about
east
lodge
and
and
the
disposal
of
east
lodge
now
whether
that
was
either
from
the
housing
and
communities
that
then
released
it
to
asset
management
or
whether
that's
actually
asset
management
that
are
looking
at
the
the
sale
of
it.
Now.
E
I
think
at
the
time
that
that
I
know
that
I
had
many
many
conversations
with
the
friends
of
temple
museum,
particularly
the
chair,
who,
unfortunately
have
to
tell
you
has
sadly
passed
away.
In
the
meantime,
the
friends
groups
are
really
committed,
as
sam
said,
he's
right
on
that
they're
really
committed
to
temple
newseum
and
as
such,
we
do
talk
to
them
and
engage
with
them
and
awful
lots
of
what
members
did,
as
you
would
expect
us
to
do
so.
E
They
have
sadly
lost
two
chairs
in
the
recent
three
years.
I've
got
to
say
and
both
of
of
who
we
used
to
have
regular
conversations
with
and
talked
to
about
all
the
issues
that
were
raised
around
temple
news
and
or
indeed
inform
them
about
issues
or
thoughts
or
anything
that
we
were
thinking
about
in
regard
to
temple
news
and
the
now
chair,
that's
taken
over
from
that
is
no
different.
E
So
we're
continuing
to
talk
with
the
present
chair
around
the
issues
to
do
with
temple
newseum
and
in
particular
east
lodge,
I've
got
to
say,
and
I've
already
had
one
meeting
with
them
around
this,
and
actually
my
next
meeting
with
them
is
tomorrow,
so
that
we
can
discuss
this
matter
further
from
what
they
read
with
the
last
meeting
and
confirm
some
some
of
the
things
that
they
wanted
to
know
about,
so
that
engagement
and
that
consultation
has
been
ongoing
since
2018,
I
have
to
say,
with
the
friends
we
they
don't,
we
don't
only
meet
them
in
their
liaison
meetings
with
the
council,
I've
got
to
say
we
meet
them
socially.
E
When
we're
out
when
we're
round
about
our
world,
we
see
them,
we
chat
to
them.
In
fact,
I
remember
first
discussing
this
with
liz
hayes
at
at
a
funeral
at
st
mary's
church.
So
that's
when
it
was
first
raised,
and
that
was
back
before
the
decision
was
made
in
2018.
now.
I
know
she
can't
be
here
to
say,
but
I'm
here
to
say
and
and
report
what
you
said
about
some
of
my
comments
in
executive
board,
and
I
just
want
to
stand
by
all
those
comments
that
I've
made.
E
We
do
talk
to
the
friends
we
have
talked
to
all
the
previous
chairs.
We
continue
to
do
so
and
that's
the
reason
why
it
didn't
go
further
forward
in
2018
for
members
of
the
scrutiny
board
and
yourself
chair,
but
particularly
for
sam,
was
because
of
the
comments
that
we
received
as
counsellors
from
a
number
of
the
friends
who
were
concerned
about
it.
E
So
we
looked
and
tried
to
find
alternatives,
an
alternative
way
of
raising
the
money
in
in
and
around
the
estate
to
see
that
it
would
be
less
impactful,
and
that's
particularly
why
that
didn't
go
ahead
from
2018
until
now,
and
quite
rightly
we're
in
the
situation
we're
in
now
in
a
pandemic,
where
we
have
the
biggest
financial
crisis
that
we
have
ever
seen
or
witnessed
any
of
us
in
peacetime
and
that's
why
we're
having
to
accelerate
the
receipt
for
capital
receipt
for
this
asset?
E
L
Thank
you,
chair
and
I'll,
follow
on
from
debbie's
excellent
explanation
around
the
relationship
with
local
group,
just
to
say
a
few
words.
Obviously
I
agree
with
everything
debbie
said
so
I'll
just
say
a
few
words
about
the
accelerated
capital
receipt
program.
Again,
it's
worth
putting
this
in
the
context.
L
As
a
council
we've
faced
10
years
of
cuts
with
2
billion
pounds
coming
up
to
taken
away
from
the
council's
budget,
we
have
a
legal
requirement
to
balance
a
budget
every
year
and
we
have
had
extra
pressures
with
the
cost
of
kobe
which,
on
top
of
the
cost
we
set
in
our
budget
in
february
last
year,
as
costa
council,
nearly
190
million
pounds,
some
of
that
has
been
offset
by
government
grants
and
other
income,
but
we're
still
facing
costs
from
there
and
we're
also
looking
to
the
future,
where
the
long-term
impact
of
the
pandemic
has
seen
a
reduction
in
our
business
rates
and
council
tax
income,
a
long-term
cyber
long-term
trend
in
our
reduction
in
government
grant
to
support
services.
L
So
the
financial
position
of
the
council
is
pretty
grim
and
in
order
to
try
and
balance
the
budget
and
protect
frontline
services
that
everybody
in
the
city
relies
on,
we
have
used.
We
have
looked
at
the
accelerated
capital
receipt
program
to
do
two
things,
first
of
all
to
bring
in
extra
resources
from
buildings
that
are
currently
void
and
buildings
that
will
no
longer
needed
for
service
delivery
and
also
to
reduce
the
cost
of
running
the
council's
estate,
reduce
the
cost
of
asset
management
so
that
we
are
able
to
move.
L
The
council
allocate
the
council
scarce
resources
to
frontline
services.
That's
a
background
to
the
accelerated
capital
receipt
program.
I'll
also
say
at
this
point
that
reading
back
through
opposition
party
budget
amendments
in
recent
years,
capital
receipts
have
formed
a
large
part
of
many
of
those
amendments,
and
obviously
opposition
parties
don't
actually
list
which
buildings
they
would
intend
to
sell.
Maybe
they've
got
a
secret
list,
I
don't
know,
but
we
do.
L
They
will
be
obviously
based
on
the
council's
existing
estate
and
the
existing
list
of
void
properties.
So
it's
perfectly
possible.
This
east
lodge
could
be
one
of
those
buildings.
We
don't
know
on
that,
but
that's
the
context
of
it.
I
think
there's
a
cross-party
consensus
on
minimizing
the
cost
of
asset
management
and
making
an
income
from
the
council
from
capital
receipts.
L
That's
a
conclusion
I
would
draw
from
that
in
terms
of
in
terms
of
east
lodge
again,
debbie
gave
an
excellent
history
of
some
of
the
negotiations
there
and
obviously
work
has
been
done
to
try
and
bring
in
external
funding
to
try
and
renovate
this
building
and
unfortunately
that
hasn't
been
successful
at
this
point,
so
the
proposal
is
to
sell
and
again
I
just
underline
this
point-
to
sell
a
leasehold
to
a
building,
not
a
freehold.
L
As
your
council
question
said,
councillor
firth
and
I'm
sure,
because
you're,
a
very
fair-minded
person
you'll,
be
take
the
opportunity
to
correct
the
inaccuracy
in
the
question
he
put
down
at
the
last
council
meeting.
L
The
intention
is
to
sell
a
long
leasehold,
which
will
give
council
still
ownership
of
the
building
and
the
ability
through
that
to
make
sure
that
all
the
historic
features
that
we
all
want
to,
we
all
want
to
preserve,
are
maintained
through
the
life
of
the
leasehold,
but
what
it
does
do
is
it
brings
in
a
capital
receipt
for
the
council
and
the
leasehold
delete
leaseholder,
who
takes
it
on
will
renovate
the
buildings
within
the
parameters
of
its
historic
location
as
we
require
with
their
own
money.
L
So
there's
no
requirement
on
scarce
public
money
to
renovate
that
building.
So
that
is,
and
that's
my
perspective
on
how
we've
got
to
this
position
and
actually
what
you
know
really
important
safeguards
we've
put
on
the
future
of
east
lodge.
I
mean,
in
effect
the
end
of
this
process,
we'll
see
it
going
from
a
building
that
was
leased
out
previously.
It'll
have
had
a
period
where
it
had
no
tenant,
and
then
it
will
continue
to
be
leased
out
in
the
future.
L
I
think
it's
a
it's
a
continuation
of
the
previous
position
and
with
suitable
controls
on
it
and
like
to
say
an
ability
to
keep
a
a
really
historic
building
that
that
many
of
us
know
very
well
without
having
to
invest
public
money
into
it.
I
think
it's
a
a
win
all
round,
and
certainly
we
will
continue
and
I
know,
debian
award
colleagues
will
continue
to
keep
the
pressure
on
to
make
sure
that
all
those
safeguards
are
in
place.
L
I
think
it's
a
a
good
outcome,
a
good
outcome
for
everybody,
and
I
know
those
important
discussions
will
continue
as
we
come
to
the
point
of
where
it
is
marketed
and
then,
like
I
say,
the
lease
is
sold.
Thank
you
chair.
Thank
you.
James.
N
Yeah,
I'm
more
than
happy
to
say
a
few
words.
I
don't
know
whether
martin
farrington
wants
to
say
something
in
advance
of
that
just
to
set
a
bit
of
context.
Martin,
if
that's
okay,
okay,.
A
Yes,
yes,
providing
mark,
doesn't
then
duplicate
that
if
and
when
he
speaks.
I
I'll
I'll
ask
him
not
to
so
yeah.
The
report.
That's
been
appended
just
aims
to
get
the
the
factual
background
behind
the
reports
in
terms
of
it
outlines
the
history
of
them.
I
understand
the
west
lodge
did
have
an
extension
in
the
early
20th
century,
as
outlined,
the
lodges
have
been
used
and
managed
as
part
of
the
council's
social
housing
portfolio
since
the
mid-1960s.
I
So
in
that
respect,
they've
not
formed
any
part
of
any
wider
function
within
the
estate
or
the
park,
and
as
councillor
lewis
set
out
just
now,
they
will
have
been
leased
out
to
tenants
on
long-term,
secure
tenants,
tenancies,
the
east
or
the
west
lodge
continues
as
part
of
the
social
housing
portfolio,
but
the
east
lodge
became
vacant
in
2017
and
it
was
taken
out
of
that
portfolio
social
housing
because
of
cost
to
bring
it
up
to
decency
standards.
I
The
report
does
outline
how
parks
looked
at
it
in
the
context
of
heritage
lottery
bid.
Two
aspects
on
that
one
is
the
actual
heritage.
Lottery
proposal
is
not
funded
in
the
council's
capital
programme.
At
the
moment
that
doesn't
mean
to
say
it
couldn't
be
in
the
future,
but
at
this
point
in
time
there
isn't
a
funding
scheme
and-
and
secondly,
whilst
parks
may
have
had
discussions
about
the
property
parks
were
not
responsible
for
the
property
and
it
didn't
come
under
their
management
or
be
it
being
part
of
the
wider
estate.
I
The
report
then
highlights
in
terms
of
the
need
to
bring
a
future
and
sustainable
use
that
it
was
proposed
to
come
forward
into
the
capital
receipts
program.
Ward
members
were
consulted
on
that
when
it
came
forward
to
executive
board
in
january
and
supportive.
I
The
normal
convention
chair
on
asset
management
offices,
consulting
on
capital
receipts,
is
to
consult
with
ward
members.
It
doesn't
mean
to
say
they
can't
consult
more
widely,
but
that
would
be
directed
by
the
ward
members.
It
would
be
unusual
and
not
something
that
I
would
recommend
for
individual
officers
in
asset
management
to
decide
a
broader
consultation
outside
of
engagement
with
the
ward
members.
I
That
report
was
available
for
calling,
but
no
calling
was
requested
in
light
of
the
covered
pandemic
and
financial
pressures
that
council
willis
outlined.
It
was
further
brought
forward
to
executive
board
in
october
2020
to
bring
it
forward
advanced
in
the
capital
receipts
programme,
which
was
approved.
I
The
decision
to
sell
the
leasehold
interest,
as
council
lewis
outlined,
the
decision
again
was
available
for
call-in
members
have
been
consulted
and
were
supportive
and
there
was
no
calling
exercised
as
councillor
cooper.
Outlines.
I
Engagement
continues
with
the
friends
of
temple
museum
in
terms
of
any
concerns
they
have
about
the
proposals
and
how
they
can
be
mitigated
through
how
we,
how
we
manage
and
progress
for,
sale
and
alongside
that
the
property
as
outlined,
is
listed
and
has
protections
through
the
listing
as
local
planning
authority.
I
And
then
we
can
conclude
the
report
that,
following
a
conservation
approach
that
the
the
normal
best
practices
for
to
try
and
use
a
heritage
building
for
its
original
purpose,
that
these
buildings
were
developed
and
brought
forward
as
residential
properties
and
through
the
sale
process.
That
would
be
the
intention
to
continue.
So
that's
that's
a
brief
summary
of
the
factual
background,
which
I
hope
is
helpful.
Council.
N
No
not
a
great
deal
chair,
and
the
only
thing
that
I
would
say
is
that
we've
dealt
with
this
and
the
the
engagement
with
world
members
in
line
with
the
approach
that
we
have
discussed
with
the
resources
and
strategy
and
scrutiny
board
in
terms
of
our
void
management
approach.
So
so
we
we've
used
a
very
standard
approach
to
to
the
engagement
and
and
progression
around.
N
This
particular
property
and,
as
council
coop
says,
continue
to
be
involved
with
the
friends
of
group
in
the
discussions
that
are
taking
place
now,.
A
A
H
It's
just
a
question
really
too.
I
don't
know
which
officer
can
explain
it
in
more
detail.
Councillor
luis
said
that
they
were
going
to
sell
the
building
on
a
lease
which
meant
they
retained
the
building.
Now,
that's
not
my
understanding
around
a
lease
that
you
buy.
The
building
and
still
the
council
still
returns
or
the
previous
owner
still
retains
it.
H
My
understanding
is
the
building
will
be
the
purchasers
in
the
purchases
ownership
and
the
land
will
be
the
the
leasehold,
but
there
is
no
prospect
of
us
ever
being
able
to
take
that
back
under
that
side
of
a
lease
we
would
just
be
getting
some
income,
possibly
from
the
lease.
I
guess
is
that
correct.
I
Well,
we
what
we
do
councillor
counselor
wadsworth
is
we'd,
sell
a
leasehold
interest
in
the
property,
so
we
would
be
the
headlessee.
We
would
sell
that
for
a
premium
so,
rather
than
taking
a
rental
as
an
ongoing
basis.
At
least
we
would
take
an
upfront
premium
as
long
as
the
party
that
bought
that
lease
didn't
fall
foul
of
their
obligations
as
a
leaseholder
than
that.
I
That
at
least
would
remain
for
for
the
period
of
the
leasehold
interest
that
was
was
being
sold
in
the
same
way
that
the
the
social
housing
tenants
had
security
of
tenure
through
their
lease
as
long-term
leasehold
interest.
So
in
that
sense
that
there's
a
long-term
leasehold
interest
that
we
would
we
would
be
selling
to
a
third
party.
H
Okay,
can
you
just
come
back
just
close
that
so
so
so
we
set,
we
sell
the
lease
to
to
to
destroy
the
circuit
developer,
who
says
he's
going
to
do
the
property
up
and
then
rent
it
on,
and
he
doesn't
do
that.
He
just
sits
on
the
property
for,
for
whatever
reason
he
might
have
cash
flow
problems,
he
might
think
it's
a
long-term
investment
they
just
want
to
do
up.
H
I
Well,
we
would
have
rights
to
to
to
progress
forfeit
if
the
obligations
under
the
lease
weren't
fulfilled.
I
don't
know,
mark
you're
closer
to
the
detail
on
this,
because
in
terms
of
what
that
lease
will
actually
say,
do
you
want
to
yeah.
N
I
I
think,
there's
a
council
there's
a
there's,
a
few
clauses
and
and
terms
that
will
be
added
to
the
lease
and
which
really
reflects
the
concerns
that
the
friends
of
group
have
already
expressed
to
us
and
which
is
around
the
use,
the
condition
and
appearance
of
the
property,
and
particularly
given
you
know,
given
its
profile
and
historic
nature.
And
so
there
will
be
clauses
that
that
give
us
that
that
that
protection
and
therefore,
if
the
lease
holder
does
anything
which
and
contravenes
those
those
clauses.
N
Then
yes,
we
will
be
able
to
to
look
at
taking
proceedings
against
them
and
clearly
the
the
appearance
and
the
condition
of
the
building
of
utmost
importance
in
that
respect.
And
but
it's
also
worth
remembering-
and
it's
been
referred
to
as
part
of
the
the
discussions
here-
that
the
building
is
listed
and
and
therefore
has
has
that
added
protection
through
the
planning
process
as
well
for
any
changes
that
are
made.
H
Yeah,
I
don't
want
to
hog
the
debate,
because
I
know
others
want
to
come
in
it's
just
it's
just
around
you
know
should
should
we
have
this
building
sold
on
and
then
a
carbuncle
we
wanted
to
put
on
the
back
of
it
and
that
not
be
able
to
get
through
planning.
Would
we
be
able
to
take
that
building
back
or
are
we
left
with
a
long
protective
process
with
a
carbuncle
going
on
the
back?
H
I
I
say
that,
because
I've
got
a
heritage
building
in
my
ward,
where
that
is
sort
of
going
down
that
route
and
some
of
the
and
the
friends
group
don't
want
the
carbuncle
to
go
on
the
back
and
we're
going
down
a
protracted
planning
process
with
that,
and
I
just
wonder
what
our
clause
is
to
take
this
building
back,
because
we
clearly
have
nothing
to
take
the
building
back
in
in
my
world,
not
that
I
want
to,
but
but
ultimately
it's
it's
around
how
whether
we
could
actually
take
it
back
into
ownership
if
we
felt
it
was
an
appropriate
development.
N
Yeah,
I
mean
so
certainly
we
we,
we
will
be
making
sure
that
the
clauses
are
robust
enough
to
allow
us
to
proceed
down
down
that
route
and-
and
certainly
legal
colleagues
are
very
heavily
involved
in
in
this
to
to
ensure
that
we
we
do
afford
the
right
protection
before
we
start
that
the
marketing
process.
I
The
point
of
clarification
on
that
is
well
councillor
just
well.
So,
under
that
scenario,
council
was
worth
the
council
is
planning
authority
would
have
controls
through
a
planning
application
and
listed
building
consent.
The
council
would
also
have
control
through
the
lease
as
to
whether
as
the
owner
of
the
property,
it
wanted
to
consent
to
those
alterations.
I
D
I
think
that's
proved
by
what
council
cooper
said
about
engaging
with
the
friends,
so
I
mean,
as
I
said,
I
think
the
nub
of
the
issue
is.
Was
that
the
correct
the
normal
consultation-
and
I
think
officers
have
said
there
was
a
normal
consultation?
D
I
think,
on
the
word,
correct
amount
of
consultation.
Obviously
it
could
go
to
the
nth
extreme
and
consult
by
sending
letters
to
all
residents
or
anybody.
That's
interested
in
temple,
museum
in
the
city
and
there'll
be
thousands
of
people
who
live
in
the
city
who
have
a
great
affection
for
temple
musing.
D
A
B
Yeah
thank
you,
chair,
and
I
think
the
first
part
of
what
I
wanted
to
say
has
been
partly
addressed
already
actually,
but
we've
heard
that
this
property
is
grade
two
listed
and
I
imagine
had
it
been
grade.
One
listed
any
sale
would
have
been
very,
very
difficult
for
obvious
reasons,
but
I
just
wanted
to
ask
the
question-
and
maybe
some
could
take
this
up
when
he
has
his
brief
response.
B
Is
that
grade
two
protection
going
to
be
enough
to
protect
the
building
as
we
wanted,
or
is
there
a
worried
that
it
might
not
be
sufficient
and
also
the
second
part
was?
Are
we
sure
that
this
will
be
limited
to
domestic
use?
Is
there
a
worry
that
it
could
eventually
drift
off
into
something
else?
I
I
In
terms
of
the
grade
two
listing,
I
mean
that
that
that
does
mean
that
the
the
heritage
aspects
of
the
property
have
protection
and
status
through
that
listing
and
that
any
development
proposals
or
alterations
the
impact
on
the
setting
of
the
listed
building
and
the
heritage
aspects
would
be
controlled
through
the
conservation
process.
C
Yes,
thank
you
mark
you.
You
said
earlier
that
there
will
be
clauses
that
protect
the
appearance
and
the
condition
of
the
building
and
martin
you've.
Just
added
about
the
use
will
will.
Will
there
somehow
be
some
protection
that
says
that
once
the
sale
has
gone
through
it,
it
then
has
to
be
occupied
and
not
just
kind
of
hung
onto
as
an
empty
building.
C
I
know
that
was
vaguely
asked
before,
but
I
don't
know
whether
it
was
answered.
N
Yeah
the
same
cute
counselor
died.
I
I
think
this
is
something
that
the
friends
of
group
have
raised
and,
and
so
therefore
it
is
one
that
one
of
the
things
that
we
are
working
through
with
legal
advice
at
this
point
in
time.
So
there's
no
reason
why
we
as
part
of
that
user
clause
or
use
clause
that
we
we
can't
extend
it
to
that.
F
F
F
F
That's
my
first
question,
which
I'd
appreciate
an
answer
to
second,
is
that
there
does
seem
to
be
sort
of
concerns
or
disagreements
around
formal
consultation
kind
of
sam's
accusation
in
his
letter
on
behalf
of
the
friends
that
they
weren't
consulted
formally
consulted
until
october,
sort
of
soft
or
informal
consultations.
Don't
usually
count
towards
any
sort
of
council
decision
making
in
my
experience,
particularly
in
my
ward
on
various
other
projects
or
about
other
things,
so
it
has
those
soft
and
informal
consultations
if
they
took
place
being
considered
in
this.
I
Perhaps
if
I
start
with
the
first
point,
I
mean
in
terms
of
councillor
wadsworth's
point
and
then
the
point
you
followed
up
with
councillor
taylor.
I
think
in
terms
of
the
lease
and
what
we
do,
all
the
matters
of
owner
occupation
assignment
subletting
can
all
be
controlled.
Through
that
lease
I
mean
my
own
expectation
would
be
that
this
would
be
bought
by
someone
that
would
refurbish
the
property
for
their
own
habitation
rather
than
subletting,
and
if
there
are
concerns
on
that,
then
we
can.
We
can.
I
We
can
control
that
through
the
lease,
because
we
will
ultimately
need
to
grant
consent
to
any
subletting
or
assignments.
So
I
think
that's
how
we
would
control
there
in
terms
of
the
second
point
mark,
do
you
want
to
pick
that
up.
N
Yeah,
thank
you
thanks
marston,
so
so
yeah.
I
I
think
in
terms
of
consultation,
while,
as
council
cooper
says,
there's
been
lots
of
discussions
that
ward
members
have
had
with
the
friends
of
group
and
there's
also
been
a
lot
of
of
engagement
between
the
management
of
the
temple
newsome
estate
and
the
friends
of
group
as
well
and
as
well.
As
you
know,
all
the
conversations
that
have
taken
place
at
temple,
news
and
forum
and
so
on.
N
I
think
what
what
we
have
had
is
feedback
from
the
world
members
to
those
conversations
and,
and
certainly
that
has
be
informed
where
we've
got
to
and
and
our
our
views
around
leasehold
as
part
of
the
ongoing
discussions
that
that
we're
having
with
them
the
the
friends
of
group.
N
So
I
I
think
you
know,
as
has
been
referred
to
already
it's
very
difficult
to
determine
the
the
extent
of
consultation
we've
undertaken,
what
what
we
would
normally
do
and,
as
I
say,
world
members
have
raised
our
awareness
to
the
issues
that
have
been
outlined.
A
F
Thank
you,
chad,
I'm
still
not
particularly
clear
martin
on
what
we're
saying
regarding
the
lease.
Are
we
saying
that
if
a
private
buyer
purchases
this
and
puts
in
an
application
to
you
know
completely
revamp
absolutely
everything
which
I'm
sure
is
probably
needed
in
in
the
property
he
wants
to
put
in
the
modern
kitchen,
modern,
bathroom,
underfloor
heating?
F
You
know
if
someone's
making
an
investment
in
this
type
of
property
they're
likely
to
want
all
the
mod
cons
to
go
with
comfortable
living,
potentially
extension
on
the
back
or
whatever
it
might
be,
and
we
planning
at
a
planning
level
say
no.
You
can't
do
that.
It
has
to
be
sympathetic
and
they
say.
Well,
we
don't
want
to
live
like
that.
We
want
a
different
approach,
we're
saying:
well,
you
have
to
live
there
anyway,
as
per
sale
as
per
the
least
as
what
is
what
I
think
has
been
suggested.
F
I
is
that
incredible.
I
don't
see
how
that
could
be,
how
that
could
be
enforced
in
any
way,
and
secondly,
mark
has
just
said
it's
difficult
to
determine
the
extent
of
consultation.
I
mean
for
me.
F
That
then
suggests
that
potentially
a
further
session
is
needed,
where
potentially,
we
could
invite
representatives
from
the
friends
group
that
they
could
give
us
their
their
interpretation
of
what
consultation
has
gone
so
that
we
as
a
board
can
determine
whether
or
not
full
consultations
happened,
and
that,
I
think,
is
something
that
I'd
be
prepared
to
move
after
I've
got
these
responses
thanks.
I
Would
you
come
back
on
that
chair?
Yes,
please
yeah,
I
mean
there
are
great
many
listed
buildings
in
the
city.
The
vast
majority
of
them
are
not
owned
by
the
council
and
in
terms
of
people
wishing
to
refurbish
listed
buildings
and
make
changes,
they're
they're
managed
through
the
local
planning
authority.
I
There
are
numerous
examples
where
the
council
owns
listed
buildings
and
leases
them
out.
Some
of
the
most
high
profile
buildings
in
the
city
fall
under
that
category,
so
the
corn
exchange
is
an
example,
and
you
know
the
corn
exchange
has
been
sold
on
a
number
of
occasions
in
recent
years
and
the
expectations
of
the
buyer
what
they
can
do
with
that
property
through
that
lease
and
the
controls
that
we
have
on
that
grade.
One
listed
building
are
all
managed
through
that
process.
I
So
in
terms
of
this
one
counselor
taylor,
I'm
relatively
relaxed
about
that,
but
the
detailed
questions
you're
asking
me.
I
can't
give
you
a
definitive
answer,
because
I've
not
seen
this
lisa
this
lease
and
it's
not
been-
I
don't
think
completely
drafted
yet,
but
in
terms
of
a
buyer
buying
a
listed
building,
they
will
need
to
understand
that
they
would.
I
They
can
only
work
within
the
confines
of
this
listing
and
that's
the
case
whether
it's
this
building
or
any
other
listed
building,
that's
bought
and
what
we
will
do
is
put
complementary
controls
in
the
lease
to
ensure
that,
in
consultation
with
members
and
we'll
have
detailed
discussions
with
councillor
lewis
as
the
portfolio
holder
on
this
and
we'll
have
detailed
concession
discussions
with
councillor
cooper
and
her
ward
colleagues
to
to
do
that,
check
and
challenge
on
the
nature
of
the
risks.
I
What
needs
to
be
managed
and
we
will,
with
legal
to
develop
a
lease
that
provides
those
appropriate
controls
that
protect
the
council
as
a
landowner
and
are
complementary
to
our
position
as
local
planning
authority.
That's
quite
a
standard
approach
that
we
would
undertake.
N
So
so
they
will
be
well
aware
before
making
any
offers
the
the
the
terms
that
they
have
to
abide
by.
A
A
N
So
the
the
the
cost
that
was
estimated
and
there's
been
a
a
few
values
given
to
this,
and
and
and
in
many
ways
it's
the
passage
of
time
that
has
led
to
to
those
different
values
and
for
slightly
different
purposes.
So
they
range
between
fifty
thousand
and
seventy
thousand
pounds
and
as
councilor
cooper
indicated.
N
Originally
the
parts
and
countryside
were
were
exploring
ways
as
part
of
other
works
to
the
estate,
as
as
how
they
could
be
funded
and,
and,
as
martin
said,
the
the
there
was
a
proposal
at
that
time
to
to
explore
the
potential
for
heritage
lottery
fund
application
for
for
the
estate
of
of
which
this
could
have
been
included.
But
that
wouldn't
require
an
element
of
match.
N
Funding
from
the
council's
capital
program,
and
that
is
is
not
something
that
at
this
time
is
in
the
program
and
and
equally,
I
think
in
terms
of
the
use
of
the
property.
It
is
a
residential
property
and
I
think
that's
something
that
that,
and
we
we've
probably
well
acknowledged
them
during
this
discussion
and
I
felt
from
a
a
social
housing
perspective.
N
I
think
the
view
originally
was
taken
that
the
the
the
cost
of
investment
for
to
bring
and
bring
it
up
to
the
decency
standard
and
continue
its
use
for
social
housing
and
was
excessive
compared
to
in
the
context
of
that
overall
housing
revenue
account
budget
and
the
investment
that
would
be
made
elsewhere.
N
So
I
think
it's
it's
difficult
to
imagine
or
identify
other
uses
within
the
council
may
have
for
a
residential
property
of
this
type
and
and
something
that
has
therefore
guided
us
towards
securing
its
long-term
use
for
as
a
residential
property
and
then
doing
so
by
the
sale
of
the
long
leasehold.
N
I
Just
a
point
of
detail,
I
think
it
might
be
helpful
to
understand
councillor
trustworld,
but
as
part
of
social
housing
portfolio.
I
Those
houses
would
be
subject
to
right
to
buy,
and
there
are
examples,
historically
going
back
numbers
of
years
of
prominent
council
buildings
that
aren't
necessarily
part
of
the
normal
social
housing
portfolio
that
are
subject
to
the
right
to
buy.
So
linking
that
back
to
your
question
about
sustainable
use.
I
Well,
the
sustainable
use
within
the
council
is
either.
It
goes
back
into
the
social
housing
portfolio
and
therefore
that
right
to
buy
clock
starts
again
expecting
that
the
west
lodge
has
been
occupied
for
some
time
or
it
becomes
a
service.
Tenancy
and
service.
Tenancies
are
very,
very
close
management
over
the
long
term,
because
they
can
they
can,
if
they're
not
kept
up
to
date
over
a
number
of
years
in
terms
of
the
direct
relationship
between
the
employees
of
this
and
their
occupation
of
that
property.
I
It
then
defaults
into
being
akin
to
a
social
house
and
the
right
to
buy
issues
arise,
and
there
have
been
again,
as
I
said,
instances
where
occupiers
of
service
tenancies
have
sought
to
exercise
right
to
buys
over
over
the
previous
years.
So
I
think
that
risk
is
probably
worth
understanding
for
members.
A
Okay,
thank
you,
martin,
I'm
going
to
bring
paul
wadsworth
in
and
then
I'm
going
to
close.
This
particular
section
of
the
discussion
and
allow
sam
a
couple
of
minutes
to
to
sum
up
so
paul
gone.
H
On
the,
where
that
you
were
doing
comments
separated
questions,
because
my
first
first
two
work
questions,
but
this
is
just
a
comment
I
mean
the
the
more
tighter
you
make
the
lease
and
the
more
clauses
you
put
in.
Surely
that
devalues
the
property
from
personal
experience.
You
know
if
there's
anything
at
least
that
I
wouldn't
don't
like.
I
walk
away
straight
away,
so
obviously
that's
going
to
have
an
impact
on
its
value,
which
means
that
what
we're
getting
into
the
council
pot
is
reduced
and,
secondly,
coming
around
consultation.
H
I
do
think
we
need
to
know
more
about
the
consultation,
I'm
not
in
any
way
doubting
that
council
cooper
has
done
the
consultation
with
the
friends
group,
but
has
she
been
to
a
formal
meeting
of
the
friends
group
and
do
we
have
a
minute
to
just
prove
that?
It's
not
me
wanting
to
say
she
hasn't
done
it,
I'm
sure
she
has
done
it,
but
in
her
own
experience
explanation
she
said
it
was
done
at
a
funeral.
I
don't
expect
us
to
take
minutes.
H
E
Can
I
just
say
chair,
I
think
that
I've
listened
really
intent
later
some
of
the
questions
and
the
debate,
and
I
think
that
for
me
this
is
more
about
you
know
political
shenanigans
than
it
is
about
saving
the
property
in
temple
news
as
a
as
I've
said
myself
and
my
ward
colleagues
are
continuing
to
work
with
our
community
and
with
the
friends
of
groups
and
other
organizations
within
temple
newseum
and
I'm
sorry
to
say
that
I
think
the
opposition
in
terms
of
council
of
firth
and
the
way
he's
conducted
himself
in
temple,
news
and
recently
just
shows
what
his
priority
is,
and
it's
certainly
not
about
the
benefit
of
this
community.
A
Okay,
thank
you,
debbie
right,
I'm
going
to
end
the
question
session
and
that's
promised
in
a
very
generous
way.
Let
counselor
first
have
a
couple
of
minutes
to
sum
up
so
councillor.
Fifth,.
M
Thank
you
very
much
chair
and
thank
you
very
much
for
all
the
questions
and
the
time
again
too.
A
M
Absolutely
chad,
but
don't
get
me
wrong.
I
do
want
to
make
sure
that
we
certainly
take
this
forward,
because
we,
let's
not
forget
that
over
1
250
people
have
signed
a
petition
against
this
set
up
by
the
friends
of
temple,
museum,
overs.
Well,
over
50
to
60
people
wrote
to
councillor
blake
before
the
executive
board
to
say:
can
we
delay
the
decision
to
have
a
proper
consultation,
because
ultimately,
this
this?
M
And
unfortunately,
I
also
feel
that
there
is
also
in
the
report,
some
mis
misleading
information
provided
in
terms
of
the
report
saying
that
the
meeting
in
february
2019
talked
about
the
fact
that
there
was
going
to
be
the
sale
of
the
property.
That
was
an
informal
meeting.
Another
informal
meeting.
If
you
read
the
timeline,
that's
been
provided
to
me
by
the
meeting
minutes
of
the
friends
of
temple
museum.
M
That
is
because,
in
the
last
meeting
I
understand
from
our
discussions
with
the
friends
that
it
was
raised
that
the
council
was
considering,
if
not
having
decided
to
sell
it
as
a
freehold.
So
I
would
appreciate
if
we
can
take
that
further
in
an
inquiry
find
out
what
the
situation
is
and
actually
get
to
the
bottom
of
this.
When
it
comes
to
making
a
political
debate
about
it.
My
question
is
actually
about
whether
we've
done
it
properly
on
this
building.
M
The
public
support
that,
as
has
been
shown
by
the
support
that
has
come
out,
and
I
think
that,
ultimately,
if
this
council
wants
to
hold
up
a
transparent
process,
then
a
scrutiny
inquiry
is
one
way
to
continue
that,
and
it's
a
shame
that
other
things
have
been
said
when,
unfortunately,
in
the
past
members
that
have
spoken
have
accused
others
of
playing
political
football,
including
chairs
of
the
friends
of
temple
museum.
So
I
think
getting
the
friends
of
temple
museum
in
to
discuss
this
with.
M
Everybody
would
certainly
be
a
very
helpful
way
to
understand
if
this
decision
and
this
process
has
been
done
properly,
because,
unfortunately
they
don't
feel
they
have
been
consulted
properly
until
the
1st
of
december
this
year,
when
it
was
first
proposed
back
in
october.
2018.,
that's
two.
Thank
you
very
much.
Chad.
A
Thank
you
right,
so
this
takes
us
on
to
the
part
of
the
meeting
where
we
have
to
decide,
and
I
I
just
draw
members
attention
to
the
recommendations
on
page
205
and
basically
the
scrutiny
board
is
asked
to
determine
what,
if
any
further
scrutiny
activity
is
required
in
relation
to
the
matter
referred
now.
Obviously,
some
of
the
comments
that
have
been
made
have
touched
upon
that,
but
I
just
want
to
hear
the
case
for
or
against.
I
obviously
have
obvious
chair,
but
I
won't
lead
members
by
articulating
it
at
this
stage.
A
So
I
think
jonathan
indicated
during
the
question
session
that
he
wanted
to
put
forward
a
proposal.
F
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
yeah.
I
think
that
there
is
course
for
us
to
have
a
have
a
more
detailed
look
at
this
with
further
contributors
coming
along.
I
think
what
we
should
be
looking
at
is
the
future
of
the
building
itself
in
terms
of
a
more
detailed
look
to
allow
officers
to
come
back
with
a
more
detailed
lease.
What
they're
proposing
for
future
ownership
would
look
like.
This
is
a
sensitive
area.
F
The
property
lies
within
the
temple
newsom
estate
and
that
last
ward
and
city-wide
interest
as
to
the
planning
future
of
it,
and
I
think
we
also
need
to
consider
further
contributions
on
that
and
has
also
been
said
a
number
of
times
now.
It
has
been
difficult
to
determine
the
extent
of
the
consultation
that
has
taken
place
so
far.
F
I
think
further
contributions
from
the
friends
group
who,
who
are,
I
think
the
source
of
some
of
these
allegations,
would
be
beneficial
for
us
to
understand
how
how
far
this
has
gone.
I
think,
on
a
personal
note,
I
will
say
this
isn't
potentially
just
about
this
building.
This
is
about
the
future
of
heritage
buildings
across
the
city.
F
In
all
of
our
wards,
which
is
the
interest
many
of
us
have-
and
the
outcome
of
this
could
very
well
set
a
precedent
across
the
entire
city
and
to
be
accused
of
anything
other
than
what
we're
here
to
discuss
today
is
a
little
bit
offensive
and
I'd
hope.
Councillor
cooper
would
reconsider
her
comments
because
it
does
seem
any
time.
A
comment
is
made
that
isn't
to
her
liking.
F
Everybody
else
is
playing
politics,
yet
we
can
have
streams
and
streams
of
anti-government
anti-tory
anti-whatever
rhetoric
that
comes
out
and
the
rest
of
us
just
have
to
eat
it.
So
they're
my
basis
on
moving
that
we
proceed
chair
with
invitations
to
other
relevant
parties,
both
within
the
council
and
externally.
Thank
you.
D
Thank
you
chair
would
like
to
disagree
with
my
colleagues.
I
mean
I
think,
we've
had
a
sufficient
wide
debate
and
I'm
satisfied
that
in
the
disposal
of
this
capital
receipt
we've
had
the
normal
level
of
consultations
that
will
be
expected
for
any
property
anywhere
in
the
city.
So
I'm
I
don't
propose.
I
propose
we
don't
have
any
further
action
to
say
because,
as
a
scrutiny
board
that
this
has
been
dealt
with
in
the
normal
manner
of
a
disposal.
H
Sorry,
I
can't
get
the
hand
to
go.
Oh,
it's
gone
up
now.
Look
it's!
Whenever
you're
wanting
to
go
up,
it
won't
go
off
the
hand.
I
was
just
wanted
to
second
counter
tears
proposals.
Really.
I.
H
A
No,
I
wasn't,
but
thank
you
for
sort
of
crossing
that
that
t,
in
the
absence
of
any
further
contributions,
I'll
I'll,
share
my
views
on
this.
Although
we
could
have
gone
straight
to
the
vote
this
year,
consultation
is
a
moot
one.
Isn't
it?
We
all
feel
we've
been
consulted.
If
we
get
our
way
and
we
don't
feel
we've
been
consulted.
A
I
mean
one
of
the
difficulties
with
with
taking
this
referral
was
which
scrutiny
board
should
it
come
to
because,
of
course,
culture
is
under
one
scrutiny
board.
The
approach
of
accelerated
disposal
comes
under
another
scrutiny
board,
and
I
think
we
finished
up
with
it
because
it
happens
to
be
in
the
hands
of
asset
management.
So
I
think
this
is
just
such
a
broad
issue.
It's
not
to
minimize
the
importance
of
it.
It's
really
to
give
it
its
importance
and
I
think
it
needs
to
be
taken
up
elsewhere.
A
A
My
own
view
is
that
the
practice
of
consulting
ward
members
is
one
that
we
we
all
either
implicitly
explicitly
subscribe
to.
We've
all
done
it,
we've
all
been
involved,
and
I
don't
recall
anyone
in
previously
having
questioned
that
as
an
approach.
A
I
think
consulting
ward
members
is
a
good
way
forward
and
I
think
we
also
need
to
bear
in
mind
that
if
we
genuinely
want
decisions
to
be
influenced
locally,
then
the
last
thing
we
should
be
doing
is
issuing
central
dictats
about
what
constitutes
proper
consultation
and
trying
to
dictate
how
ward
members
operate,
not
just
in
respect
to
this
particular
issue,
but
right
across
the
piece
when,
when
we
consulted,
because
ultimately,
as
ward
members,
we
are
accountable
to
our
electors,
and
I
think
that
that
is
an
important
element
of
of
the
whole
process
of
of
the
role
of
members.
A
A
In
this
instance,
it's
probably
fairly
straightforward,
although
maybe
it's
not,
but
I
suspect
it
would
be
really
really
difficult
to
to
set
a
precedent
in
terms
of
doing
that-
and
my
final
point
is
that
I
cannot
understand
if
this
was
an
issue
that
exercised
some
members
to
such
a
huge
degree,
why
they
didn't
take
the
opportunity
on,
I
think
at
least
two
occasions
to
exercise
their
right
to
subject
it
to
a
calling
which
would
have
automatically
required
a
scrutiny
board
to
carry
out
an
inquiry
such
or
a
calling
inquiry.
A
Having
said
all
that,
as
chair,
I'm
now
going
to
ask
members
to
vote
on
this
particular
issue
and
I'm
not
sure
becky
and
I
look
to
your
guidance
as
to
how
we
do
that,
we
I
can
go
through
the
members
and
ask
them
yay
or
nay
whether
they
want
to
have
a
further
inquiry
or
if
there
is
any
other
process
that
we
need
to
to
go
through.
C
A
Okay
thanks:
I
sought
that
advice
because
in
my
four
or
five
years
of
chairing
this,
I
don't
think
we've
ever
had
a
vote
that
hasn't
been
unanimous,
but
clearly
I
suspect
this
one
isn't
going
to
be
so
I
think
the
proposal
before
us
is
yeyo.
Nay,
do
we
have
a
further
inquiry
or
not
if
you
want
to
have
a
further
inquiry,
the
answer
is
yes.
If
not,
the
answer
is
no,
so
I'm
going
to
go
through
the
board
membership
alphabetically,
starting
with
councillor
buckley,
yes,
chad,
okay,
councillor,
cunningham,.
E
A
Okay,
so
I
make
that
six
to
three
without
me
as
chair
having
to
vote,
but
that
would
make
it
seven
three.
So
the
decision
of
the
board
is
that
we
don't
conduct
any
further
inquiry
into
this
matter.
But
having
said
that,
I
think
it
has
nevertheless
been
a
very
helpful,
useful
and
informative
discussion
and
I
thank
everyone
for
their
participation.
A
A
Okay,
right
thanks
very
much
everyone
thanks
for
your
your
contribution,
thank
you
for
our
external
attendees
and
officers
and
all
be
well
I'll,
see
you
at
the
next
meeting
on
the
17th
of
february.
If
not
before,
stay
safe,
everybody.