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A
Members,
councilor,
Dan,
Cohen
and
I
will
be
chairing
this
morning's
meeting.
Welcome
everybody.
After
the
long
summer
break
I
was
saying
in
the
pre-meet
there's
the
children
and
family
scrutiny
board
I
feel
like
we've
got
an
extra
New
Year
because,
of
course
we're
at
the
start
of
a
new
Academic
Year.
Do
you
want
to
take
a
moment
to
congratulate
everybody
who
will
have
received
a-level
and
GCSE
results
over
the
break?
A
I
hope
they
got
the
results
they
wanted
and
deserved,
and
thanks
as
always
to
Dedicated
teachers
and
mentors
and
pastoral
stuff
who
helped
to
get
our
young
people,
hopefully
those
out
to
work
with
them
to
get
them
the
results
they
deserved.
A
So
this
meeting
is
being
webcast
on
the
council's
website,
so
the
interested
parties
and
members
of
the
public
who
were
unable
to
join
us
in
person
and
we're
much
better
in
person
but
are
able
to
observe
us
remotely
and
I,
will
now
invite
board
members
to
introduce
themselves
and
could
I
remind
you
to
please
mute
your
microphone
once
you
have
introduced
yourself
and
we
will
start
to
my
left.
C
Morning,
Helen
Bellamy
teach
School
staff
representative,
not
just
teach
representative.
O
Good
morning,
councilor
David
Blackman,
family
and
whirly
Ward.
A
Thank
you,
everybody
and
can
I
just
take
the
opportunity
to
welcome
back
Kate,
Kate
blacker,
who
is
back
on
the
board.
Thank
you
very
much
for
rejoining
nice
to
have
you
back
and
can
also
say
thank
you
to
councilor
Amanda
Carter
for
substituting
this
morning.
Okay,
let's
go
to
the
agenda
item.
One
appeal
against
refusal
of
inspection
of
documents.
A
We're
on
a
roll
item,
four
Declaration
of
interests.
Anybody
got
any
interest
that
need
to
be
declared.
A
I
see
none
item;
five;
apologies
for
absence
and
notification
of
substitutes.
D
Thank
you
chair.
Yes,
we
have
councilor
Amanda
Carter
substituting
for
councilor
Ryan
Stevenson
has
already
noted.
Andrew
Graham
is
unable
to
attend
and
also
councilor
senior.
All
of
those
will
be
noted
in
the
minutes.
Thank
you.
Chip.
A
Thank
you
that
moves
us
to
item
six
minutes
of
our
meeting
on
the
5th
of
July,
which
is
Page
seven
of
your
bundle.
As
usual,
I
will
go
through
Page
by
Page.
The
downside
here
is
as
I'm
looking
down.
I
sometimes
don't
miss
it,
so
maybe
as
well
as
indicating
you
might
want
to
make
make
a
noise
or
go
Audio
Visual.
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
Yes
pretty
much.
Everyone
good
brings
us
then,
to
item
six
and
a
bit,
that's
not
on
the
agenda,
but
I
refer
to
in
the
pre-meeting
Mr
Evans.
Could
you
give
us
a
brief
update,
please
on
the
the
ofsted
inspection,
that's
on
its
way.
Q
Yeah,
it's
thank
you
chair
and
for
those
members
who
who
don't
know
who
I'm
I'm,
Phil
Evans
I'm
the
chief
officer
for
transformation,
Bill.
Q
So
for
those
members
that
don't
know
me,
I'm
Phil,
Evans,
I'm,
the
chief
officer
for
transformation
and
Partnerships
within
the
children's
and
families
directorate,
and
we
just
wanted
to
make
the
security
board
aware
that
on
Monday,
we
receive
notification
that
the
council
and
partners
would
be
subject
to
an
ofsted
CQC
thematic
visit.
It
is
very
much
a
thematic
visit
rather
than
a
full-on
inspection,
and
it's
focused
on
alternative
Provisions
I've
send
alternative
provision.
Q
We
are
now
in
a
three-week
process
where,
for
the
next
two
weeks,
it's
about
collating
information,
sending
data
back
to
the
inspectors,
making
sure
that
we're
answering
any
queries
that
the
inspectors
may
have.
They
will
then
join
us
in
effectively
just
over
two
weeks
time
to
do
a
series
of
in-person
on-site
visits
during
that
they'll
aim
to
meet
the
council.
Q
Partners
from
other
agents
is
including
the
ICB
and
Health
Partners
settings
and
they
will
seek
to
meet
parents
and
carers
probably
helpful
just
to
set
out
that
this
is
very
much
a
thematic
visit
which
aims
to
consider
how
alternative
provision
is
provided
in
the
city.
To
what
extent
is
meeting
the
healthcare
and
education
needs
of
children
and
young
people
to
be
able
to
better
understand
the
purposes
for
what
that
alternative
provision
is
provided
to
identify
any
enablers
and
barriers
that
may
exist
and
to
highlight
good
practice.
Q
So
it
isn't
an
offset
inspection
in
terms
of
a
judgment
that
will
be
made,
but
it
is
very
much
one.
That's
focused
on
good
practice,
the
the
re,
the
findings
of
it
may
well
be
aggregated
and
shared,
but
they'll
be
aggregated
against
the
cohort
of
local
authorities
and
my
from
memory
I
think
there
are
six
there
are
being
undertaken
in
this
initial
phase
of
work,
just
wanted
to
bring
it
to
members
attention
so
that
you
are
aware
of
it.
Q
There
aren't
Communications
gone
out
to
Partners
to
settings,
and
we
have
picked
up
some
external
comms
and
we're
still
working
on
that
process
of
making
sure
that
everyone
who's
aware
and
has
an
interest
in
the
potential
visit
will
be
aware
of
it.
Happy
to
take
questions
on
it
and
some
of
those
questions
I
may
defer
to
some
of
my
colleagues.
F
Very
briefly,
how
is
the
feedback
going
to
be
handled?
When
are
you
expecting
the
feedback
to
take
place
and
and
who'll
be
there
for
it.
G
So
the
feedback
meeting
happens
on
the
Friday,
the
last
Friday
of
the
three
weeks.
So,
as
Phil
said
two
weeks,
they
will
spend
collating
evidence
as
part
of
that
there's
a
survey
that's
for
parents,
children
and
for
practitioners
and
the
fact
the
survey
feedback
there
won't.
There
will
only
share
themes
with
us,
so
there
will
give
any
more
detail
than
that
for
the
feedback
session,
the
local
Authority
nominated
officer.
They
will
meet
with
them
and
the
equivalent
from
the
ICB,
and
that
will
be
the
final
Friday
of
the
three-week
process.
A
Any
other
questions
no
Council,
lavender
councilor
Pryor,
anything
from
you
on
that
piece.
No!
Okay!
Thank
you.
Let's
move,
then,
to
item
seven,
the
independent
reports
into
children's
social
care,
the
McAllister
review
implementation
update,
who
is
speaking
who's
leading
on
this
okay.
Thank
you.
Counselor.
R
I'll
make
introductory
comments
and
then
I'll
hand
over
to
Farah,
so
this
support
out
sorry
I'm,
sorry
for
being
late
to
start,
the
traffic
in
West
Leeds
was
terrible.
This
one
it
was
an
incident
in
hostess
I,
believe
I'm
councilor,
Fiona,
Venom
I'm,
the
executive
board
member
for
children's
social
care
and
health
Partnerships.
R
So
this
report
outlines
how
we're
responding
to
both
the
Josh
McAllister
report,
the
independent
review
into
children's
social
care
and
the
government's
implementation
report,
and
the
whole
focus
of
the
McAllister
review
is
about
moving
resource
from
the
crisis
and
of
children's
social
care
into
early
intervention
and
prevention,
and
that
is,
and
has
been
for
a
long
time,
our
whole
ethos
and
leads,
and
when
I
first
read
the
report,
I
felt
like
it
felt
as
though
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
the
ideas
had
perhaps
been
taken
from
Leeds
and
I.
R
Celtic.
Our
former
director
of
children's
social
care,
is
on
the
implementation
board
and
I
sit
on
the
national
local
government,
Association
children
and
people's
board,
which
also
works.
You
know,
with
with
the
implementation
board
also
we
are
working
with
the
recommendations
of
the
report,
so
the
report
for
our
report
today
outlines
that
are
really
help.
Hubs
will
expand
from
three
to
seven.
The
report
outlines
how
we're
responding
to
the
national
and
local
crisis
on
placement
sufficiency
by
developing
more
children's
homes.
R
The
report
refers
to
our
edge
of
care
work,
which
very
much
responds
to
the
recommendation
about
keeping
children
in
their
families
wherever
it's
safe
to
do
so,
and
also
keeping
children
near
home.
There's
quite
a
big
emphasis
on
kinship
care
within
the
report
and
leads
us
really
strong
on
that.
We
were
highlighted
a
few
years
ago
in
an
all-pali
all
party
parliamentary
group
on
kinship
care.
R
We
were
hired
as
an
area
of
good
practice,
both
in
terms
of
the
number
of
children
we
have
in
kinship
care,
which
is
much
higher
than
the
national
average,
and
also
the
support
that
we
provide
to
kinship
carers.
So,
overall,
we
have
good
alignment
in
terms
of
our
practice
with
the
recommendations
of
the
report
and
we
are
in
a
really
good
place
to
be
able
to
have
a
national
influence
as
the
implementation
happens.
Thank
you.
A
G
A
G
You
chair,
if
I
can
just
add
to
that.
Like
counselor
Venice
said
the
report,
recommendations
fit
with
Leeds
family,
valued
approach,
and
so
we
were,
we
are
excited
about
the
prospect
of
family
help.
My
role,
my
title
is
chief
officer
for
family
help.
We
believe
strongly
in
leads
in
our
services
that
support
in
families
are
keeping
families
together.
Supporting
children
to
remain
with
families
is
the
right
way.
G
The
report,
the
review
recommendations,
are
also
embedded
in
views
of
those
with
lived
experiences.
We
have
a
very
strong
voice
and
influence
offer
in
Leeds
and
listening
to
those
with
lived
experiences,
and
so
that
comes
across
strongly
in
the
report,
and
it's
also
reflected
in
the
work
we
do.
We
have
one
of
the
largest
family
group
conference
services
in
the
country.
We
have
lots
of
local
authorities
coming
to
see
how
we
practice
to
be
able
to
replicate
that.
G
So,
although
we
are
not
Pathfinders-
and
we
didn't,
you
know
that
was
those
authorities.
The
five
authorities
that
have
been
selected
were
selected
by
government
and
we
actually
still
continue
to
feed
into
the
recommendations.
I
myself
was
chair
of
the
principal
Social
Work
Network.
The
national
network
until
last
year
and
we
met
regularly
with
the
DFE
and
continue
to
do
so.
G
We
continue
to
host
visits
as
well,
obviously,
the
local
authorities
that
are
Pathfinders,
it's
a
two-year
program,
and
so,
although
we
have
got
this
report
forward
at
this
stage,
their
implementation,
what
implementation
period
will
Define,
where
we
go
next
nationally
with
in
relation
to
strategy
and
policy,
to
support
the
implementation.
A
Thank
you
for
that
in
many
ways,
not
surprised
we're
we're
not
Pathfinders
in
the.
If
you
read
the
reports
and
it's
just
broken
the
pen
that
have
been
linked.
Sorry,
when
one
reads
the
report,
as
Council
of
Anna
said,
there's
so
much
that's
leads
in
it.
I'd
go
as
far
so
frankly
we're
exemplars.
Actually
in
a
lot
of
what's
in
this
report,
it's
perhaps
not
a
great
surprise
that
we've
not
been
put
down
as
a
Pathfinder
in
that
regard,
questions
from
the
board
21st
and
then.
E
Any
system
that's
only
to
go
to
the
people
there
to
implement
it.
Can
you
tell
us
a
little
bit
more
about
the
the
amount,
the
stuffing
that
we've
got,
which
I'm
looking
particular
on
page
20,
point
B
and
C,
because
the
number
of
recruitment,
the
difficulty,
the
Recruitment
and
also
with
the
use
of
agency
stuff?
G
Recruitment
of
social
workers
in
particular,
continues
to
be
a
challenge
and
and
leads
like
all
authorities.
You
know
that's
the
current
context
of
social
care.
We
face
those
challenges
as
well.
We
are
have
an
active
recruitment
policy
and
a
retention
policy
to
support
our
workers
What's.
G
The
report
highlights
a
five-year
career
framework
to
support
the
progression
of
workers.
We
already
have
a
really
established,
well-established,
newly
qualified
Social
Work
program
that
supports
them
through
their
first
year.
We've
expanded
that
to
the
second
year,
including
support
on
emotional
well-being,
additional
emotional
well-being
and
resilience
that
social
work
is
really
tough
right.
Now,
it's
a
profession
that
there's
less
people
coming
internationally.
We
continue
to
work
with
the
DFE
around
the
national
issues.
G
Social
workers
adversaries
have
changed
over
years,
also
things
that
can
be
done
last
in
relation
to
mileage
and
allowances,
Etc,
and
so
it's
it's
less
people
coming
into
the
profession.
So
when
people
are
leaving
maintaining
that
sufficiency,
we
can
update
you
on
on
figures
of
recent
recruitments
as
part
of
our
recruitment.
G
We
have
also
increased
our
intake
of
apprentices,
so
those
are
people
that
already
work
for
children's
services
that
aren't
qualified
at
the
moment
this
year
we've
got
13
people
who
already
work
for
us
in
unqualified
post
progressing
to
do
their
apprenticeships,
while
they're
working
for
us.
G
We
lead
on
the
regional
offer
for
four
authorities
around
step
up
to
Social
Work
program,
and
so
that's
where
people
who've
done
a
different
degree
can
apply
to
social
work
for,
and
it
takes
a
lesser
time
for
them
to
be
supported
to
convert
that
qualification
to
Social
Work
practice.
And
what
we
do
know
is
we
program
with
our
step-up
program.
G
We've
had
people
stay
for
longer
because
they
already
come
with
some
knowledge,
an
experience
from
a
different
profession,
and
so
we
host
that
for
four
local
authorities
in
the
region,
and
so
that's
part
of
our
recruitment
strategy.
But
we
will
give
you
the
figures
at
the
moment
in
relation
to
avoc
and
she's,
a
new
starters,
if
that's
helpful
as
well,
foreign.
S
Class
Laney
I'm
a
lead
head
of
service
for
children's
social
work.
So,
as
far
outline,
we
do
have
a
number
of
challenges
around
vacancies.
So
the
latest
figures:
we
have
71.5
social
worker
vacancies
across
our
teams
and
we
have
offset
that
with
26.5
agency
social
workers
and
also
a
program
of
yeah.
S
Maths
is
not
my
strong
point,
sorry
about
that.
So
we've
also
had
a
program
for
over
a
year
of
a
firm
additional
Social
Work
assistance
as
well.
So
they
are
unqualified
staff,
but
they
are
there
to
support
the
social
workers,
so
I
suppose
what
we,
what
we're
doing
is
helping
the
social
work
teams
in
the
absence
of
their
social
workers,
with
a
cohort
of
additional,
unqualified
staff
and
also
additional
Advanced
practitioners
that
we've
added
in
to
support
the
teams.
S
The
the
other
thing
I
would
would
add
in
addition
to
what
pharah
was
saying,
is
we're
also
looking
at
International
recruitment
of
social
workers
as
well
with
an
agreement
for
20
social
workers
from
overseas
to
join
us,
and
we've
got
13
of
those
so
far
that
have
been
successfully
recruited
to
the
service.
E
The
other
question
about
agency
staff
I
see
that
the
end
point
C
we've
already
had
to
break
the
memorandum
of
understanding.
How
many
agencies
stuff
do
we
actually
have
in
Leeds.
F
Thank
you
I
hear
what
you
say
about.
Why
we're
not
a
Pathfinder
and
I
understand
the
logic,
but
actually
I'm
a
bit
disappointed
that
we're
not
because
if
I
was
choosing
to
test
a
range
of
new
and
challenging
ideas,
I
wouldn't
probably
choose
to
a
local
Authority
that
wasn't
particularly
good
at
what
they
were
doing.
I
tend
to
go
for
people
who
I
mean
I,
you've
said
The,
Usual,
Suspects,
so
I
sort
of
get
that,
but
I
thought
I'd
just
make
that
point.
F
That
I
I
feel
we're
missing
out
a
little
bit
by
not
being
a
Pathfinder.
But
my
question
was
I'm
really
interested
in
page
18.4.
Replacing
targeted
early
help
and
child
in
need
work
with
a
single
category
of
family
help.
Can
somebody
just
talk
me
through
the
the
principles
and
ideas
behind
that,
because
I
think
that's
about
having
a
more
joined
up
approach
and
not
just
cutting
things
off
when
children
become?
Is
it
25
or
less
and
then
them
being
tipped
into
a
different
system?
G
G
So
it's
about
reducing
the
number
of
Hoops
that
families
have
to
jump
through
for
support
to
put
it
in
in
those
terms,
so
people
can
access
early
help
that
doesn't
require
a
social
work
provision,
but
then,
when
we
have
a
referral
for
social
work,
intervention,
social
workers
have
to
do
a
child
in
need
assessment.
G
We're
talking
the
family
around
the
child
as
well,
and
language
is
really
important
and
Stables
homes
built
on
love
is
about
language.
That's
what
children
need
and
so
I
think
that
it
reflects.
The
language
of
family
help
reflects
that,
but
it's
describing
not
about
age,
but
it's
more
about
that
help.
Part
of
of
social
care
support,
so
it's
to
bring
early
help
and
child
in
need,
together
as
one
offer
of
family
help.
E
N
And
it's
just
a
comment
more
than
anything
else,
I've
been
on
this
board
for
well
be
13
years
now
and
reading
through
this
report
it
looks
like
it's
all.
Our
strategic
planning
that
we've
done
in
the
last
12
years
and
I
think
really
leads
should
be
given
credit
where
credit's,
due
by
Mr,
what's
his
name
next
max
Alister,
but
it's
just
that
you
know
we
held
our
nerve.
N
That
was
the
thing
that
we
did
say
12
years
ago,
we're
holding
our
nerve,
putting
these
strategies
in
place,
and
it
has
worked
very
well
and
people
are.
M
Obviously
I
was
completely
Echo
what
Jackie
said
just
in
relation
to
placement
sufficiency
and
placements,
particularly
for
children
with
more
complex
needs.
It
was
really
encouraging
to
read
the
plans
in
respect
of
small
group
living
homes
and
the
other
plans
that
you've
got
to
try
and
bring
some
of
those
children
back
into
the
area
just
in
terms
of
kind
of
linking
in
with
what
Tony
was
asking.
M
But
in
terms
of
more
specifically
in
relation
to
that,
have
you
seen
any
difficulties,
or
do
you
foresee
any
potential
challenges
in
regards
to
recruitment
of
staff
for
those
particular
homes,
given
the
particular
complexities
of
some
of
those
children
and
the
challenging
behaviors,
and
what
additional
training
provision
might
be
needed
in
respect
of
those
homes
to
meet
the
needs
of
those
children?
And
how
will
you
sort
of
test
the
success
of
that.
G
That's
a
really
really
important
question
and
children
with
additional
complex
need,
a
certain
level
of
care
and
a
therapeutic
environment
to
to
understand
their
needs.
We
already
have
our
MST
fit
program
that
work
really
successfully
with
children,
in
particular,
where
they
spend
some
time
away
for
family
and
then
are
rehabilitated
back
to
the
foster
care
or
or
to
family
members.
G
So
as
part
of
that
learning,
we've
increased
our
therapeutic
offer,
so
our
for
our
residential
staff
and
training,
so
they
will
be
all
work
into
a
particular
therapeutic
model
supported
by
our
MST,
a
fit
team
and
all
working
in
a
consistent
way,
because
what
we
know
is
that
the
whole
concept
of
small
group
living
is
that
those
children
who
will
come
to
those
placements
will
have
additional
needs
that
require
additional
support,
and
so
we've
done
that
from
a
Workforce
Development
point
of
view.
It's
also
incorporated
into
recruitment.
G
We've
had
a
really
successful
recruitment
campaign
recently,
with
a
residential
practitioners
and
factored
into
recruitment.
Is
those
people
with
the
right
skills
that
we
can
support
with
the
right
value
base
and
the
right
skills?
Where
you
know
they
can
work
with
young
people
who
are
going
to
challenge,
and-
and
so
that's
that's
a
really
important
point,
but
we
really
believe
that
by
investing
in
those
children
bringing
them
back
to
leads,
we
can
actually
support
them
as
they
grow
into
their
transition
into
adulthood,
and
we'll
continue
doing
that.
G
Just
sorry,
councilor,
then
has
just
pointed
out
about
Recruitment
and
there
are
challenges
with
recruitment
overall
across
social
care,
but
our
recent
campaign
has
been
really
successful.
We've
had
lots
of
new
starters
who
are
really
Keen,
who
come
from
a
wide
range
of
background,
who
love
working
with
teenagers
in
particular
and
I've,
got
to
say
I.
Don't
understand
why
anybody
wouldn't
want
to
work
with
teenagers,
but
they
are
really
Keen
they've
started.
G
We've
got
a
real,
clear
induction
program
for
them,
so
we
are
we're
recruiting
more
and
more
every
day
and
we've
got
the
keys
for
one
of
our
homes
and
we've
actually
got
potential
offers
into
others,
and
so
we're
on
with
that
program
and
we're
confident
that
we
will
be
able
to
recruit
to
those
posts.
M
M
You
touched
on
something
I
was
going
to
ask
about
as
well
actually
which
was
in
relation
to
transition,
because
obviously
all
the
work
that
you're
doing
sounds
brilliant,
really
encouraging,
but
quite
often
Things
fall
down
a
bit
on
transition
and
I
know
from
person
experience
that
sometimes
not
necessarily
in
leads,
but
in
local
authorities,
that
the
transition
work
isn't
always
as
effective
as
it
could
be,
so
that
all
the
brilliant
work
that
might
have
been
done
by
children
services
up
until
they
turn
18
is
sometimes
undone
when
things
aren't
already
in
place
and
they
then
fall
under
the
Care
Act
and
Adult
Services.
M
So
the
report
doesn't
really
touch
on
that
and
I
just
wondered
if
there
was
anything
specifically
in
relation
to
transition
in
terms
of
recommendations
for
any
improvements
or
any
areas
where
you
felt
leads
could
do
things
better
or
you
happy
that
things
are
working
as
they
should
be
and
that
there
will
be
a
smooth
transition
that
the
needs
will
continue
to
be
met.
Post
18
as
well.
G
I
think
part
of
bringing
children
back
to
Leeds,
so
the
national
strategy
obviously
doesn't
go
into
much
more
detail
on
that
but
locally
for
us,
part
of
bringing
children
back
to
Leeds
is
about
that
transition
because
we
know
lead
services,
and
that
includes
services
for
adults
as
well,
and
we
have
really
good
working
relationships
with
our
colleagues
in
adults
and
health,
but
where
children
are
in
leads
it's
easier
to
access
and
plan
for
those
Services,
and
so
I
really
believe
that
bringing
children
closer
to
home
strengthens
Transitions
and
makes
that
Journey
easier.
G
But
we
do
have
really
strong
relationships
and
and
look
at
more
getting
services
on
board
earlier
and
so
that,
where
we
do
know
that
children
will
have
needs
going
into
adults,
we
have
those
discussions
with
our
colleagues
in
adults
and
health
earlier,
but
that's
easier
geographically,
when
children
are
accessing
services
that
are
lead
services
and
statutory
services
and
third
sector
Services.
That's
a
lot
easier.
So
I
do
believe
that
will
strengthen
that.
A
Q
Thanks
Dad,
just
to
pick
up
on
that
transitions
issue,
just
to
assure
the
board
that
that
we're
aware
of
some
of
the
challenges
that
exist
in
many
local
authorities,
about
the
transition
from
children's
to
adults
and
from
a
commissioning
perspective,
we're
picking
up
the
dialogue
with
commissioning
colleagues
in
adults
about
how
we
can
strengthen
that
particularly
internally
within
the
council,
and
that's
a
live
work
stream.
That's
ongoing
at
the
moment.
So
we
are
working
on
making
that
a
better
process
from
a
commissioning
perspective
in
terms
of
the
two
directorates
and
how
they
come
together.
C
I
just
wanted
to
ask
about
the
use
of
the
third
sector
in
these
small
settings.
I
wondered
if
Leeds
were
still
using
the
third
sector.
I
know
from
experience
a
member
of
my
family
was
thinking
of
applying
to
work
in
one
of
those
settings
and
the
working
conditions
they
had
to
sign
away
the
working
time
directive,
those
that
you
could
be
asked
to
work
here
there
or
anywhere
miles
away.
C
G
I
might
not
have
understood
the
question
probably
properly,
but
I
just
want
to
clarify.
Do
you
mean
third
sector
staff
for
residential
settings?
Yes,.
C
R
R
R
So
we
spend
more
money
in
the
private
sector
than
in
the
third
sector
with
regard
to
where
children
are
placed
in
terms
of
emergency
placements,
where
we
can't
accommodate
children
ourselves
either
in
foster
care
or
in
our
own
residential
setting,
and
that's
why
there's
such
an
emphasis
on
recruiting
and
retaining
Foster
carers
and
expanding
our
residential
Provisions?
So
we
don't
have
to
do
that
because
the
I
mean.
R
Obviously
we
monitor
placements,
where
we
place
children,
social
workers
and
independent
reviewing
offices,
we'll
go
out
and
do
visits,
but
there
is
a
concern
that
the
practice
may
not
be
what
it
would
be
if
we
were
looking
after
children
ourselves
and
also
there's
an
issue
about
children
being
placed
outside
Leeds,
and
we
would
want
them
to
be
here
near
their
family
and
where
they're
from
so
yeah
I
hope
that
answers
the
question
a
bit
more
comprehensively.
Yeah.
C
R
R
We
have
more
children
living
with
us
than
most
local
authorities
and
we're
aiming
to
make
that
even
more
the
case
with
expanding
our
own
in-house
provision.
But
yes,
at
the
moment,
we
do
do
Place
some,
sometimes
it's
appropriate.
Sometimes
children
need
really
specialist
placements
if
they've
got
particularly
complex,
physical
or
psychological
needs,
but
actually,
most
of
the
time
we're
making
placements
outside
Leeds
it's
because
we
don't
have
the
placement
internally
and
that's
what
we're
trying
to
avoid.
G
Thankfully,
in
relation
to
independent
private
providers,
where
children
and
from
leads
are
placed
in
those
placements,
they
have
a
statutory
visit.
We
have
a
duty
as
local
authority
to
to
have
a
Rec
45
visit
where
they
they
are
visited,
and
we
look
at
the
regulations
how
they're
providing
care,
but
also,
as
Council
lavender
said,
that
child
will
have
an
independent,
reviewing
officer
who
reviews
their
care
plan
to
look
at
whether
that's
the
right
placement
for
them
and
they
also
have
the
social
work
visits.
G
There
are
challenges
depending
on
where
the
placement
is
in
relation
to
maintaining
links
with
leads.
They
might
also
be
accessing
them,
services
that
are
outside
of
Leeds
but
statutorily.
We
do
have
to
provide
those
functions
and
continue
to
do
so.
They
are
still
Leeds
children's
wherever
their
place.
On
the
same
note,
there
are
lots
of
children
placed
in
leads
by
other
authorities
in
private
settings
that
aren't
lead
settings,
and
so
that's
why
the
national
strategy
encourages
local
Authority
in
the
same
towards
bringing
children
closer
to
their
home.
Local
Authority.
L
Hi
yeah
we've
got
a
kind
of
like
a
really
in-depth
breakdown
on
the
sort
of
private
sector
and
in
my
work,
working
in
Social
mental
health,
educational
schools,
a
lot
of
those
children
because
of
the
behaviors,
a
lot
of
them
were
were
either
in
in
foster
care
or
or
in
residential
homes,
and
a
lot
of
them
were
had
couldn't
be
in
Council
in
in
some
in
some
cases,
because
of
the
behaviors
that
they
exhibited.
L
It's
out
the
the
private
that
the
private
Market
could
offer
more
money
to
the
Foster
carers,
and
so
they
were
going
into
a
private.
Do
we
have
figures
of
what
in-house
make
so
our
first
parents
and
the
council
make
because
we've
got
15
300
a
month
in
a
private
in
a
private
sector
is
what
is
what
what
is
being
charged
privately
and
privately
for
sorry,
for
the
independent
fostering
agencies
per
month
is
3200..
So
how
does
that
differ
for
a
council
foster
parent?
How
much
of
it?
How
much
they
get?
R
So
yeah
so
last
year
we
put
two
million
from
our
strategic
reserves.
Account
into
giving
foster
care
is
an
uplift
and
we
are
as
a
council,
one
of
the
best
I
think
actually,
with
the
best
player
for
some
age
ranges
in
the
region
and
we're
certainly
one
of
the
highest
for
all
age
groups,
and
the
idea
of
that
was
around
Recruitment
and
Retention
of
foster
carers.
I've
said
before,
though,
at
this
at
this
scrutiny
board
that
the
profiteering
in
the
private
sector
has
obscene
with
regard
to
both
residential
placements
and
ifas.
R
We
cannot
compete
with
ifas
on
on
from
what
they
pay
their
stuff.
We
just
can't,
however,
what
we
do
provide
for
our
Foster
carers
is
really
comprehensive
support
package.
For
example,
we've
got
the
Mockingbird
hubs,
which
is
seen
as
nationally
good
practice,
where
a
more
experienced
Foster
carer
will
support
a
network
of
other
Foster
carers
like
an
extended
family.
We
have
really
good
training.
We
have
really
good
progression.
R
We've
brought
in
the
new
level
five
Foster
carers,
which
will
be
for
foster
carers,
who
will
Foster
adolescence
with
particularly
complex
and
challenging
needs
where
I've
met,
Foster
carers,
who's
come
who've,
come
from
ifas
into
into
us.
As
a
council,
they've
said,
they've
come
because
of
the
support,
that's
provided,
which
you
don't
always
get
in
ifas,
but
it
is
absolutely
the
case.
We
can't
compete
with
them
on
price
and
it
is.
It
is
a
horrible
situation.
There
should
not
be
a
market
in
vulnerable
children,
and
there
is
at
the
moment.
L
P
Thank
you
just
wanted
to
dull
a
little
deeper
into
children
that
are
looked
after
in
the
private
sector.
So
if
you
could
just
tell
me
a
little
bit
more
about
how
they're
monitored
how
often
they're
visited
and
just
how
it
actually
works
place.
G
So
the
visits
for
children
for
us,
the
children,
get
a
Social
Work
visit,
and
that
depends
on
how
long
they've
been
in
the
placement
where
they
are
so
children.
If,
when
the
first
move
that'll
be
more
often,
it
could
be
more
often
depending
on
the
needs
and
that's
set
out
in
there
looked
after
review.
So
it
depends
on
their
individual
needs.
G
G
They
might
be
seen
by
an
advocate
they'll,
be
seen
by
other
professionals
working
with
them.
So
that's
for
the
children.
They
are
that's
their
visits
for
the
children
depending
on
on
their
level
of
need.
Those
visits
are
hard
because
they
take
out
if
a
social
workers
are
traveling,
they're
traveling
a
full
day.
G
Well,
as
if
children
are
in
leave,
they
can
do
several
visits
in
a
day,
and
so
it
does
have
implications
in
relation
to
to
time
of
stuff,
but
also
they
can
be
hard
for
family
to
to
remain
in
touch
with
children.
Family
will
visit
children
their
family
time.
Arrangements
will
be
defined
in
their
independent
care
plan
by
their
reviewing
officer
overseen
by
their
reviewing
officer,
so
they
vary
for
different
children
depending
on
their
needs.
F
Just
coming
back
to
the
private
sector
homes,
where
our
children
are
placed
outside
Leeds,
we
also
have
private
sector
homes
in
Leeds.
Now,
presumably
we
will
know
if
Leeds
children
are
in
those
will.
We
definitely
so
there'll,
probably
be
children
from
the
who
aren't
from
Leeds
in
our
Authority
in
homes
that
are
privately
run
and
Council
of
Ellen
knows.
There
are
two
such
homes
in
my
Warden
effort
about
to
be
established.
Do
we
just
not
engage
with
them
at
all
on
any
level,
then
we
did
establish
not
so
very
long
ago.
F
Actually
that
the
only
way
we
can
know
in
Leeds
when
a
new
private
home
is
established
is
through
the
planning
application,
assuming
that
it's
being
built
or
needs
planning
permission
for
something
it
might
not
be,
might
be
a
home
that
doesn't
need
any
planning
permission,
in
which
case
we
would
be
absolutely
have
no
knowledge
of
it
at
all.
That
situation
worries
me
a
little
bit
should
we
be
establishing
a
relationship
with
known
private
homes,
even
though
our
children
aren't
in
them
foreign.
G
Private
homes
I
just
wanted
to
add
to
that
that
we
do
know
where
looked
after
children
are
placed
in
our
area,
so
the
local,
the
placing
Authority.
So
if
Leeds,
placing
a
child
in
another
Authority
or
another
Authority,
is
placing
a
child
in
our
Authority.
We
send
a
notification
to
the
to
the
authority
that
the
child
is
moving
in,
so
we
do
know
looked
after
children
a
place.
That's
all.
G
We
know
that
a
looked
after
child
is
of
a
certain
age
is
placed
by
a
particular
Authority,
a
certain
address,
and
that's
because
legally,
if
there's
an
immediate
risk
to
that
child
or
something
happened,
then
we
support
that
Authority
and
we're
supported
with
some
immediate
action.
But
in
relation
to
homes.
G
We
do
have
good
relations
with
some
of
the
homes
in
Leeds
and
we're
looking
at
a
model
as
part
of
bringing
children
closer
to
home,
where
in
dialogue
with
some
with
some
providers
to
to
look
at
purchasing
some
Provisions
some
beds
in
lead
for
specific
children.
But
again,
the
range
of
providers
vary
so
much
and
what
they
offer
that
we
need
to
make
sure
that
the
providers
we
have
those
relationships
with
that
their
value
and
their
way
of
providing
Services
fits
with
our
ethos.
In
leads.
R
This
is
a
piece
of
work.
Our
commissioning
team
are
doing
at
the
moment,
because
our
ideal
would
be
that
we
look
after
all
our
children.
The
reality
is,
we
can't
do
that
at
the
moment
until
they
will
be
in
a
better
place
to
do
that
when
we've
got
the
eight
more
homes,
so
the
the
second
best
option
for
us
as
children
do
need
to
place
residential,
be
placed
residentially
they're
still
in
leads,
and
that's
why
it's
important
that
we
do
have
a
relationship
with
other
providers.
R
So
as
far
as
that,
our
commissioning
team
are
looking
at
how
we
might
set
up
purchasing
arrangements,
so
we
sort
of
have
a
priority
over
places
in
Leeds
homes
over
authorities
that
are
outside
leads
that
are
placing
their
children
with
us.
So
at
least
our
children
are
in
our
city,
even
if
they're,
not
all
in
our
provision,.
G
And
that's
where
the
inspector
would
come
in
so
ofsted
have
a
role
in
regulating
children's
homes,
and
so,
if
anybody
has
concerns
about
providers,
then
that's
where
their
role
would
come
in
as
a
local
Authority.
We
wouldn't
you
know
we
wouldn't
have
a
oversight
of
all
the
homes
that
are
independent
providers
in
Leeds.
R
M
Just
in
relation
to
that
I'm,
obviously
there
will
be
certain
circumstances
where
it
will
be
really
difficult
for
us
to
bring
all
of
our
children
back
into
Leeds
I'm,
just
thinking.
I
know
this
is
a
minority,
but
children
who
require
secure
accommodation
under
section
25
of
the
children
act
or
children
with
additional
special
educational
needs
or
physical
disabilities
who
require
a
residential
educational
placement.
Do
we
have
any
plans
in
terms
of
accommodation
that
falls
under
those
categories
within
the
lead
area,
or
is
that
just
something?
That's
not
not
achievable?
R
Do
already
have
a
secure,
Children's,
Home
and
leads
until
back,
which
is
includes
both
both
youth
Justice
about
Sun
welfare
beds.
That's
a
national
resource,
so
really
often
they'll
have
no
leads
children,
but
I
think
most
times
I've
visited
there's
been
one
or
two
that
are
from
Leeds,
but
you're
right,
they're,
the
really
complex
placements
are
often
the
ones
that
are
related
to
send
needs
or
children
with
really
complex
physical
and
psychological
needs.
That's
why
we
developed
a
second
Acorn
house.
It's
not
called
Acorn
house.
R
I
can
never
remember
what
it's
called
field
Terrace.
So
Acorn
house
is
a
house.
That's
been,
we've
had
for
a
long
time
in
Ireland
for
five
children
with
really
complex,
learn
to
spread
some
physical
disabilities
and
we
we've
created
a
second
time
based
on
that
model.
It
will
be
opening
late
this
year
in
Temple
news,
some
Ward
that
home
alone,
as
well
as
obviously
bringing
five
children
back
to
Leeds,
will
I
mean
it's
a
really
expensive
provision
to
build.
R
But
it
will
pay
for
itself
within
the
first
couple
of
years,
because
those
placements
are
so
expensive,
but
obviously
the
main
benefit
and
our
main
drive
for
doing
it
is
having
those
children
back
in
Leeds.
Q
Can
can
I
just
make
a
general
point
that,
in
terms
of
our
commissioning
approach,
it
is
very
much
about
having
a
mixed
economy
of
provision
and
making
sure
that
we've
got
the
right
provision
in
the
right
sector
for
the
right
child
at
the
right
time,
and
quite
often
individual
discussions
will
be
had
about
the
needs
of
the
child
and
that
will
be
undertaken
on
with
the
social
worker
and
specialist
Commissioners
in
a
placement
team
to
make
sure
that
we've
got
that
that
right
provision
as
Council
of
enter
and
Farah
have
put
out.
Q
There
are
some
real
Market
issues
in
relation
to
that.
But
one
of
the
things
that
we're
doing
from
a
commission
perspective
is
trying
to
have
that
dialogue.
The
council
agroon
has
suggested
with
providers
in
the
city
about
what
we
can
do
to
make
a
better
set
of
outcomes
that
reflect
that
it's
an
ongoing
piece
of
work
because,
as
you
can
imagine,
it's
a
constantly
fluid
situation
in
relation
to
children
in
the
system.
The
what
the
market
is
looking
for
and
what
it
can
sustain.
A
It
for
me,
is
it
accurate,
saying
please
jump
in
if
it's
not
that
we
effectively
just
picking
out
what
what's
being
said,
that
we
use
the
commercial
providers
to
give
the
flexibility
in
the
system,
so
it
might
be
time
we'll
be
using
very
little
or
there
might
be
a
time
when,
because
so
that
that's
how
we
use
them.
Isn't
it
for
that
for
that
flexibility,
so
they're
carrying
that
risk
as
it
was
they
may
not
be
needed
at
all.
Is
that
we're
using
for
them?
For
that
flexibility?
That's
right!
Yes,.
G
We
use
we
use
external,
a
provider's
chair
when
absolutely
we
don't
have
a
resource
of
our
own
and
then
it's
about
you
know
the
right
one.
We
try
to
identify
the
right
one
for
a
children.
G
A
Thank
you,
councilor
cartoon.
P
Yes,
could
I
ask
you
to
expand
on
provision
for
children
in
private
care
homes,
for
example,
like
counselor
grew
and
I've
got
one
coming
into
to
my
area.
P
P
G
So
it's
the
placing
so
if
we
place
a
leads
child
in
a
a
in
a
provision,
that's
not
a
leads
provision.
It's
our
responsibility
to
let
partner
agencies
know
to
support
around
any
reason.
We
do
that
police
are
involved
in
in
risk
management
plans
for
that
child
and
that's
the
social
work.
That's
part
of
the
status
of
responsibility
that
local
Authority
has
for
a
look
after
child.
So
it's
the
placing
Authority
that
has
responsibility
for
each
child
and
they
will
have
an
independent
reviewing
officer.
G
They
will
have
a
social
worker,
and
it's
for
for
that,
placing
authority
to
have
those
discussions
and
to
make
sure
that
the
plan
manages
the
risks
or
any
support
needs,
fall
back
child.
So
one
provider
could
have
children
from
several
authorities,
but
it'll
be
each
Authority,
that's
responsible
for
their
child.
R
Don't
slippery
and
identified
a
real
Gap
in
this,
because
councilor
Gruen
is
both
a
very
diligent
corporate
parent
and
a
planning
chair,
because,
as
far
as
said
when
a
child
is
placed
with
us,
we
will
be
notified
in
the
same
way.
If
we
place
a
child
in
another
Authority,
we
have
to
notify
them.
But
if
you're
planning
to
build
children's
home
in
an
area
you
don't
have
to
notify
leads
other
than
from
a
planning
perspective,
and
it
was
the
case
that
we
wouldn't
know
in
children's
services.
R
If
there
was
going
to
be
a
children's
home
developed
because
there
wasn't
that
communication
between
planning
and
children's
and
the
developer
doesn't
need
to
notify
children's
only
planning.
Obviously,
if
they
require
planning
consent.
Council
green
picked
up
on
this
because
of
seeing
planning
applications
for
her
award.
So
we
do
now
have
a
system
in
place
where
planning
will
notify
children's
if
there's
an
application
for
children's
home,
which
has
been
really
relevant
because
sometimes
they've
been
really
inappropriate.
You
know
counselor
gruen's
made
really
valid.
R
Criticisms
of
the
the
I
am
proposed,
build
and
felt
they
haven't
been
appropriate,
but
it
is
a
bit
of
a
gap
in
the
kind
of
legislation
that
there's
no
requirement
for
a
developer.
To
tell
us
if
they're
developing
a
children's
home
it
and
it
becomes
a
requirement
when
children
are
actually
placed
because
individual
children
will
be
notified.
A
Thank
you
for
that.
It's
going
to
bring
councilor
Edwards
in
as
the
last
contribution
on
this
piece.
B
Thank
you
very
much
and
I'd
certainly
Echo.
Some
of
the
points
that
were
made
earlier
about
the
importance
of
children
and
young
people
being
close
to
family
and
networks,
and
also
the
points
that
were
made
about
profiteering.
B
I
wanted
to
ask
a
bit
more
about
fostering.
So
there's
quite
a
lot
of
talk
about
the
importance
of
kinship
and
so
I
wanted.
If
you
could
tell
us
a
little
bit
more
about
what
engagement
there
is
with
the
different,
the
many
different
communities
across
Leeds
in
order
to
increase
the
range
of
options,
but
also
looking
to
increase
the
range
of
people
who
Foster,
including
those
who
might
not
have
considered
it
before.
So
that's
the
first
part
of
my
question.
B
G
And
the
foster
care
of
a
side
just
as
we're
doing
with
our
Workforce.
We
recognize
that
we
need
more
diversity
across
Foster
carers
and
when
a
kinship
carer
steps
in
to
support
a
child
in
their
family,
it's
a
different
process
because
the
child
is
already
connected
to
them.
G
And
so
often
in
those
arrangements
we
will
get
more
diversity,
but
as
part
of
the
recruitment
campaign
for
new
Foster
campers
we're
actively
promoting
recruiting
from
diverse
communities
from
the
diverse
communities
across
Leeds
and
really
understanding
the
support
needs
of
different
communities.
Because
all
our
families
look
different
and-
and
you
know,
my
family
will
look
different
to
your
family,
how
we
support
how
we
communicate
Etc.
So
it's
understanding
that
and
part
of
you
know.
G
Diversity
in
the
workforce
is
about
diversifying
our
foster
careers
as
well
and
offer,
and
and
then
supporting
Foster
carers
with
children
from
diverse
communities
as
well
and
understanding
and
understanding
those.
So
that's
an
active
work
strand.
We
do
recognize
that
we
need
to
increase
that
and
that's
something
that
we
have
to
actively
work
on
the
next
part
of
the
question
about
placement
breakdown
and
where
children
sometimes
where
children
have
to
move
placements.
G
The
reason
we
would
like
more
of
our
children
in
our
own
placements,
with
our
own
Foster
carers
in
our
own
residential
settings,
is
actually
we
have
more
more
influence
and
ability
to
support
those
placements,
and
so
we
have
a
placement
support.
Team.
G
Every
Foster
carer
will
have
a
supervising
social
worker,
the
same
in
residential
they're,
supported
by
our
therapeutic
Social
Work
team,
and
so
we
can
identify
any
issues
that
are
going
to
happen
early
and
there
were
where,
where
a
placement
might
not
be
right
for
a
child,
we
can
support
the
child
to
move
on.
Unfortunately,
with
the
private
Market,
it's
a
mixed
economy.
Some
providers
work
really
well
where
there
is
a
risk
of
placement
and
will
will
look
at
support.
That's
needed
to
support
that
placement.
G
Others
might
give
notice
on
the
day
to
say.
Actually,
we
can't
manage
this
child
any
long
longer,
and
we
we
don't
you
know
and
where
that
does
happen,
we
steer
away
from
those
providers
in
the
future,
but
just
like
the
care
offered
can
be
a
mixed
economy.
So
can
the
decision
making
about
ending
placements,
and
so
it
depends
on
the
particular
provider
but
with
our
own
placements,
sometimes
placements
do
break
down,
but
we
do
aim
to
support
that.
G
We
have
a
placement
planning
meeting
if
there
are
risks
and
those
are
looked
at
and
looked
at
what
support
is
needed
in
the
first
instance.
B
Very
quick
follow-up,
so
how
about
when
we
look
at
it
from
the
point
of
view
of
the
Foster
carers
and
also
the
children
and
young
people
themselves?
How
how
are
their
views
on
placement
breakdown,
gathereds.
G
Absolutely
there's
a
the
Foster
careers
views
are
vital
to
that.
Foster
covers
don't
go
into
foster
care
for
the
money.
You
know
they're
going
to
foster
care
because
they
have
a
commitment
to
children
and
it
really
it.
You
know.
A
placement
breaks
down
is
often
traumatizing
for
the
child
and
the
Foster
carer,
so
their
views
are
so
by
the
their
supervising
social
worker
by
the
reasons
that
led
up
to
that
breakdown
and
the
child's
views
for
looked
after
children
are
always
Central
to
that.
G
So
they
are
sought
in
that
process
to
understand
the
breakdown,
but
often
even
after
break
down
that
those
relationships
are
still
supported.
So
we
have
Foster
carers
where
children
aren't
able
to
live
with
them
anymore
because
of
risks
or
need
or
impact
on
other
children,
but
they
still
maintain
that
relationship
and
Link
with
that
child.
So
absolutely
that's!
Central
to
that.
H
Sorry,
just
a
very
quick
one,
it's
just
following
on
from
from
that
question
regarding
kinship
carers
and
I,
know
in
the
report
on
page
18
for
C.
It
talks
about
kinship
carers
and
and
and
I
had
some
a
couple
of
years
ago,
I
had
some
case
work
regarding
a
kinship
carer
where
we
we
had
to
she
had
to
move
house.
You
know
we
had
to
find
her
a
bigger
house,
so
she
could
a
bit
she
could
take
on
that
kinship
responsibility
and
I
just
wanted
it
here.
H
It
does
say
you
know.
Grace
recognition
is
part
of
kinship
carers,
support
through
financial
allowances,
the
extension
of
legal
aid
and
statutory
kinship
leave
our
recommendations
that
that
you
know
kinship
carer
should
get
a
lot
more
recognition
than
they
are
and
a
lot
more
rights
than
they
they
have
at
the
moment
and
including
you
know,
locally.
H
Our
housing
policy
as
well
so
I
just
wondered
if
there
was
if
there
was
any
what
what
you
know
as
a
counselor,
if
we're
doing
anything
but
nationally,
if
any
any
progress
had
been
made
on
that
at
all.
G
So
naturally,
those
are
recommendations
about
the
locally
in
relation
to
housing.
To
other
supports
part
of
the
kinship
assessment,
all
of
those
are
looked
at.
The
areas
of
so
or
and
housing
is
an
increased
challenge
anyway.
Overall,
but
for
kinship
carers,
we
do
look
at
those
individually
and
so
we've
supported
where
possibly
a
move
or
an
extension
or
other
support,
that's
considered
in
the
support
plan,
and
that
includes
the
financial
support,
so
it
will
be
more
than
the
allowance.
It
might
include
other
areas
of
support
as
well
together.
A
Thank
you,
everybody
for
that.
Council
Savannah
final
word
on
it:
no
okay!
Thank
you
very
much.
Okay,
let's
move
on,
then.
Thank
you
all
to
item
eight,
which
is
on
page
31
of
your
pack,
impact
of
Asylum
legislative
guidance,
changes
on
children,
Council,
Vanna
and
introduction
yeah.
R
Thank
you.
So
the
purpose
of
this
report
is
to
outline
the
impact
on
children
in
needs
of
changing
legislation
in
relation
to
refugees
and
Asylum
Seekers
and,
of
course,
how
this
particularly
affects
us
as
I
work
with
unaccompanied
Asylum
seeking
children.
We
have
I
have
to
say
I'm,
really
passionate
about
this
area
of
our
work.
I'm,
really
proud
of
our
support
of
unaccompanied
science-seeking
children.
We
have
a
really
positive
relationship
nationally
for
this
work,
and
that
came
out
very
strongly
in
our
ofsted
report
last
year.
R
I
know
when
we
were
at
the
feedback
meeting.
The
inspectors
were
very
moved
by
some
of
the
contact
I'd
had
with
some
of
the
young
people
that
were
supporting
the
work
is
hugely
challenging.
We
are
dealing
with
children
that
are
highly
traumatized.
They've
escaped
situations
of
sometimes
in
human
cruelty.
They've
endured
horrific
Journeys
to
get
here.
R
Border
councils,
like
Kent
who've,
been
quite
vocal
about
that
really
positively
and
leads,
or
despite
the
awful
climate
that
we're
working
in
we've
got
some
really
inspiring
stories
of
our
work.
Cooked
with
love.
The
launch
of
the
cookbook
last
year
was
absolutely
one
of
my
highlights
of
the
Year.
R
This
was
a
joint
project
between
the
council
and
the
British
Library,
where
we
had
several
cohorts
of
an
accompanistan
of
Seeker
children
who
got
together
with
British
Library
staff,
with
our
social
work
staff
and
produced
a
cookbook
of
recipes
that
they
brought
from
home,
and
it
was
so
inspiring
hearing
them.
R
Talk
about
that
about
the
friendship
and
love
between
them,
how
how
empowered
they
felt
by
being
able
to
develop
this
book,
and
it
will
live
in
the
British
Library
forever,
and
it's
given
to
all
children
that
arrive
in
Leeds
as
part
of
their
welcome
to
the
city.
So
that
gives
a
contrast
really
with
the
I
suppose
the
love
and
welcome
that
we
aim
to
provide
that
children
come
to
lead,
have
a
very
traumatized
less
positive.
With
the
report.
R
Talks
about
the
whole
issue
of
age
assessments
and
reports
that
30
out
of
35
children
that
our
staff
assessed
had
been
inappropriately
classified
as
adults
somewhere.
In
fact,
children
and
you'll
have
read
in
the
media-
that's
happening
all
over
the
country
and
prior
to
those
assessments
being
done
correctly.
It
means
children
are
placed
in
really
inappropriate
environments
with
adults
and
bearing
in
mind
these
children
are
already
distressed
and
frightened.
R
Some
children
have
been
placed
nationally
and
really
inappropriate
settings.
The
report
outlines
some
of
the
challenges
that
are
inherent
in
the
legislation
in
that
technically,
the
Home
Secretary
has
the
right
to
move
children.
R
However,
if
a
social
worker,
if
the
social
worker's
working
with
that
children
felt
that
that
would
put
a
child
at
risk
to
do
that
move
if
they
supported
the
move,
they
would
be
contravening
the
the
regulations
they
work
in
in
terms
of
their
Professional
Regulation
with
social
work
England.
But
to
the
best
of
my
knowledge,
that's
not
happened
in
Leeds
that
the
Home
Secretary
has
tried
to
move
a
child,
and
we
thought
that
would
place
them
at
risk.
R
Showed
John
and
Pat
still
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong,
but
but
that
the
report's
outlining
some
of
the
things
that
could
happen
that
are
problematic
in
the
legislation,
I
think
anyone
who's
worked
with
refugees
and
Asylum
Seekers,
which
I
did
a
lot
in
my
last
role,
will
will
recognize
that
Refugee
assigned
Seekers
live
with
a
really
really
high
level
of
uncertainty.
You
know
about
what
their
future
is
going
to
be
and
that's
outlined
in
the
report.
R
You
know
children
could
be
removed
from
the
country
when
they
reach
the
point
of
18,
and
that
makes
our
work
really
challenging
because
of
course,
what
we
don't
want
to
provide
is
stability
and
certainty
and
opportunity,
and
we're
doing
that
in
a
context.
That's
mitigating
against
that,
so
the
work
is
incredibly
inspiring
and
the
young
people
we
work
with
are
amazing
and
are
a
real
testimony
to
what
the
human
Spirit
can
endure.
R
A
No
okay,
yes,.
N
Do
they
look
particularly
old
or
something
or
or
is
it
the
fact
that
they
they're
telling
people
they're
older
to
travel
across
in
the
first
place?
What
is
the
reason
why
they,
they
Bert
certs
or
something
are
wrong
or
something
or
why?
Why
is
it
happening?
I'm
just
curious,
really,.
U
Foreign
service
management
responsible
for
the
uneconomic
sound
seeking
children
in
Leeds
for
quite
some
time
now.
The
children
that
are
getting
moved
up
from
the
Kent
who
the
home
office
have
decided
that
they're
over
18
aren't
being
assessed
whatsoever.
They're
getting
they're.
U
Getting
a
look
see
is
what
the
phrase
has
been
used
by
a
lot
of
social
workers,
so
the
home
office
will
see
them
they'll,
decide
that
they're,
probably
over
18
and
then
they'll,
basically
ship
them
out
to
the
hotels
in
Leeds,
without
the
formal
assessment
that
we
complete
in
Leeds
and
most
local
authorities
complete.
U
So
in
in
local
authorities,
we
complete,
what's
called
a
Merton,
comply
and
age
assessment,
which
is
a
very
thorough
and
detailed
assessment
done
safely
with
the
young
person
the
home
office
and
isn't
doing
that
at
the
port
at
the
ports
down
in
Kent,
when
the
young
people
are
coming
over
on
the
boats,
so
they're,
deeming
them
as
adults
at
that
point
of
view.
But
at
that
point
and
then
sending
them
to
hotels
across
the
country.
U
Leeds
is
think
two
or
three
of
the
regional
areas,
where
the
hotels
are
for
adult
Asylum
Seekers
and
that's
where
we're
then
picking
them
up,
because
the
all
the
hotels
have
welfare
offices
and
those
welfare
officers
are
seeing
them
immediately
and
saying
that
these
are.
These
are
adults.
These
are
children
and
then
they're,
making
the
referrals
to
us.
So,
in
short,
the
full
assessments
of
their
ages
aren't
taking
place,
and
none
of
the
young
people
will
have
any
documentation
at
the
point
of
arrival
anyway.
U
So
there
is
no
formal
knowledge
of
their
age.
At
that
point,.
B
Can
I
pay
tribute
to
the
work
that
staff
are
doing
on
this
and
it's
often
it's
often
not
noticed
by
many
people
outside,
but
it
is
hugely
important
because,
apart
from
helping
those
young
people
to
rebuild
their
lives,
ultimately
many
of
them
will
be
future
residents,
future
neighbors
future
citizens,
and
so
it
really
is
an
investment
in
the
future.
B
I
noticed
on
on
page
35,
you
were
talking
about
the
0.19
talking
about
the
package
of
support
which
is
available
for
unaccompanied
children
and
young
people,
and
that's
that's
very
welcome
one
of
the
things
it
talks
about
linking
them
with
the
existing
friendship
groups
and
other
young
people
of
similar
backgrounds.
B
What
work
is
there
in
terms
of
getting
to
know
and
working
with
young
people
from
different
backgrounds,
because,
of
course,
that's
going
to
be
one
of
the
challenges?
So
what
what
supports
is
there
in
this
area?
I
know
what
it
says
about
involving
the
young
people
in
Service
delivery,
and
that's
that's
hugely
important.
So
so
what
support
is
there
in
terms
of
integrating
and
getting
to
know
young
people
from
different
backgrounds?
B
The
other
thing
I
was
going
to
ask
about
is
what
account
is
taken
of
the
needs
of
those
young
people
also,
for
example,
if
they
have
protected
characteristics,
they
might
be
LGBT
Plus
or
there
may
well
be
other
things.
So
what
account
is
taken
of
that
and
at
what
stage?
Thank
you.
U
Okay
in
relation
to
the
first
one,
every
every
unaccompleted
slam-seeking
child
that
turns
up
in
leads
is
seen
immediately
by
our
our
group
of
staff
that
support
on
the
community
so
I'm
seeking
children,
not
necessarily
social
workers,
but
some
staff
that
we
got
through
funding
through
the
Department
of
Health
some
years
ago.
That's
still
in
place,
and
there
we
have
they're
part
of
the
welcome
group
and
we
have
a
welcome
pack
for
them.
So
most
of
you,
mostly
people,
are
Muslim,
so
we
have
command
Maps.
U
We
have
the
the
commands.
We
have
the
the
mats.
We
have
also
have
clothing
for
them.
Then
we
put
them
in
contact
with
other
young
people
from
the
same
nationalities,
because
uncomfortable
Sam
seeking
children
come
from
a
small
number
of
different
countries.
It's
not
as
widespread
as
people
would
anticipate.
So
we
link
them
in
through
our
local
support,
with
our
learn
team
that
links
them
into
those
groups
on
the
company.
U
Sound
seeking
children
they've
become
care,
leaders
have
been
with
us
quite
a
while
then
are
running
those
groups
on
behalf
of
other
community
of
other
unaccommitted
sound
seeking
children.
So
that's
a
fairly
thriving
group
all
over
this
groups,
all
over
the
city
for
different
nationalities
and,
of
course,
all
the
nationalities
come
together
at
different
places.
U
So
the
cooked
with
love
covered
all
the
nationalities
and
what
isn't
in
here,
I,
don't
know
why
we
can
put
it
in
here,
because
we
have
very,
we
have
quite
a
thriving
football
team
of
unaccompanied
Asylum
seeking
children
that
actually
won
a
cup
last
year
and
actually
got
promoted
into
the
second
division,
and
they
have
two
coaching
sessions
a
week
and
then
at
any
point
that
can
be
anywhere
between
30
and
50.
Unaccompanied
Sam,
seeking
children
and
Care
leavers
turn
up
to
that
footballing
group.
U
It's
run
by
some
of
our
staff,
but
also
by
some
volunteers
as
well.
So
we're
very
pleased
with
that.
We
one
of
our
social
workers
and
on
our
APS
does
a
lot
of
the
work
as
well,
so
the
coach
with
lovers
continued.
Actually
it
wasn't
just
it
wasn't
just
an
event.
It's
supposed
system
taking
place
for
some
considerable
time
in
relation
to
the
health.
What
we
do
with
our
learning
from
the
time
seeking
children
is
not
all
on
the
conducted.
U
Some
seeking
children
need
their
age
assessment,
but
we
will
do
a
welfare
assessment
on
all
of
them
and
we
will
make
sure
that
they
are
getting
seen
by
a
looked
after
nurse
as
and
when
they
need
to
get
access
to
a
look
at
that
children's
nurse
we've
also
got
support
some
from
some
specialist
services
that
offer
drama
support
for
Asylum,
seeking
people
who
may
have
had
some
difficult
Journeys
and
some
difficult
experiences.
U
So
that's
just
a
raft
of
support
that
we
put
in
place
for
underground
seeking
children
from
different
backgrounds
and
different
places
that
come
from
I'll
answer
the
question:
okay,.
U
Well,
it's
interesting.
We
haven't.
We
haven't
been
asked
from
the
young
people
in
relation
to
their
LGBT
backgrounds
and
that's
something
that
we
do
need
to
think
about
a
lot
more
because
it's
not
something
that's
there
and
it's
not
something
that's
been
requested,
but
just
because
it's
not
there,
it's
not
a
question.
It's
not
something
that
we
shouldn't
be
taken
forward,
a
lot
more.
U
U
Seeking
young
people
have
lots
of
Fairly
significant
issues
to
deal
with
the
moment
they
land
in
Leeds,
including
orientation
of
the
lead,
City
and
sorting
out
their
legal
status,
which
is,
as
you
can
imagine,
is
fairly
tricky
for
all
of
them
getting
into
their
schools,
getting
into
education,
setting
to
accommodation,
so
some
big
big
stuff
that
needs
to
be
done,
and
it's
in
relation
to
the
the
sexuality
that
we
looked
after
young
people.
U
N
G
In
relation
to
protected
character,
heuristics
as
a
whole,
as
John
mentioned,
young
people
that
come
over
often
have
a
well
presenting
needs
in
relation
to
the
trauma
and
the
immediate
needs
that
they
have
but
protected
characteristics
and
integration
and
understanding
integration
for
young
people,
but
also
supporting
them
with
identity.
Work
is
something
that
we,
you
know.
G
We
are
looking
to
focus
on
more
and
as
part
of
their
Journey
as
Children
looked
after,
and
as
they
get
confident
with
the
professionals
they
work
with,
as
they
build
those
relationships
which
take
time,
then
then
that's
easier
to
do
in
relation
to
individual
plans.
G
I
guess
the
uncertainty
that
they
face
and
legislative
changes
impacts
on
that,
because
obviously
part
of
the
support
is
that
young
people
feel
safe,
that
they
feel
that
they
know
where
the
future
is
going
to
be
that
they
know
the
relationships
are
ongoing
and
the
uncertainty
that
the
changes
mean
for
them
will
impact
on
that
work.
V
Thanks
for
just
going
back
to
the
issue
around
integration,
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
that
a
lot
of
the
young
people
who
come
as
a
silencers
are
really
motivated
actually
towards
education,
and
we've
got
very
good
links
with
the
local
colleges
and
so
that
those
young
people
are
able,
then
to
get
a
really
grounded
a
really
full
sense
of
what
it
means
to
live
in
Leeds
alongside
all
of
the
cultures
and
that
add
to
the
richness
of
the
city
and
just
going
back
to
the
idea
of
sport
being
a
real
leveler.
V
Just
to
give
you
an
example
of
some
of
the
work
that's
done,
John
talked
about
the
football
tournament
that
happened
last
year.
It
just
happened
again
this
year
and
involved
all
of
the
other
local
authorities
across
West
Yorkshire.
It
was
amazingly
supported
a
huge
level
of
competition
and
talent
actually
on
the
football
pitch
when
I
went
to
see
it
actually.
This
afternoon,
we've
also
got
a
sports
day,
primarily
for
Asylum
seeking
young
people
to
plug
some
of
those
gaps
that
they've
not
had
as
they've
grown
up.
V
So
again,
it
just
gives
you
a
flavor
of
the
work
and
and
the
care
that
that's
taken
around
their
experience
of
growing
up
being
able
to
grow
up
for
the
period
that
they're
here
in
Leeds.
V
O
Going
back
to
the
the
misidentified,
youngster,
zoo
and
I,
didn't
even
adult
adults,
you
say
when
we
when,
when
they
come
up
here,
basically,
we
we
have
a
look
at
it
and
we
re-identify
him
for
a
better
word.
How
long
will
it
take
between
them
arriving
and
US
deciding
that
they
are
children.
U
The
hotels
have
got
a
fairly
mature
welfare
system,
it's
the
same
four
or
five
hotels
that
have
been
used
for
a
number
of
years
now,
and
the
welfare
systems
are
really
quite
good
and
they
usually
Identify
some
concerns
for
a
young
person
within
days
of
that
young
person
arriving
it's
it's
not
often
much
longer
than
three
or
four
days
that
we've
been
informed,
that
they
think
there
might
be
a
child
who's
been
Mis
identified
as
an
adult
living
with
them,
and
then,
at
the
point
that
we
get
that
referral,
we
will
go
out
that
day
to
do
a
brief
inquiry
to
see
what
we
think
might
be.
U
The
issue,
the
age
of
the
child.
O
So
it's
within
days
of
them
arriving
in
in
Lee's,
Authority
also
identify.
But
how
long
will
they
been
in
the
country.
U
Okay,
so
the
the
home
office
have
got
better
of
moving,
who
they
deem
as
adults
out
and
away
from
Kent,
because
obviously
the
Kent
Services
have
been
put
under
increasing
pressure
over
the
last
number
of
years.
So
from
what
I
understand
that
some
of
the
young
people
can
be
moved
on
from
Kent
within
a
week
or
two,
some
might
have
remained
in
Kent
a
lot
longer
than
that,
and
some
might
have
remained
a
lot
less
than
that.
U
But
I
haven't
got
that
that
specific
detail
of
how
long
they've
arrived
in
Kent
and
how
long
they've
been
in
Kent.
But
it's
not
usually
more
than
a
few
weeks.
A
M
Thank
you.
Obviously,
the
issue
of
age
assessment's,
not
new,
is
that
it's
been
around
for
a
long
time
and
I
mean
for
the
benefit
of
counselors.
That
may
not
be
that
familiar
with
it.
It
is
a
really
tricky
area,
because
young
people
will
turn
up
without
papers.
Some
will
say
their
children
and
they're,
not
their
adults.
Others
will
say
vice
versa
and
it's
really
difficult.
The
Merton
assessments
come
from
a
case.
I
think
that
was
in
the
courts
a
number
of
years
ago,
but
I'm
just
wondering.
M
Why
are
the
home
office
not
doing
it?
Is
it
because
they
want
to
just
pass
the
responsibility
onto
us
and
they
often
also
come
with
a
cost?
Don't
they
because
it's
been
a
long
time
since
I've
been
involved
with
a
case
of
this
nature,
but
sometimes
pediatricians
would
have
to
be
instructed
to
look
at
Dental
records
and
things
like
that.
M
So
I
don't
know
if
that
still
happens
anymore,
but
I
just
wondered
if
there's
a
cost
attached
to
it
and
how
long
it
actually
takes,
and
also
just
in
relation
to
placements
I
assume
once
a
Young
Person's
identified
as
a
minor,
they
become
accommodated
on
Section
20.
What,
where
are
we
generally
placing
them,
and
then
it
was
really
alarming
to
obviously
read
about
the
new
like
forced
removal,
powers
and
the
impact
of
that
potentially
on
pathway
planning.
M
Will
we
still
begin
that
pathway,
planning
process
anyway
and
what
sort
of
times
girl
sorry
because
I'm,
not
that
okay
with
all
of
the
sort
of
intricacies
of
it?
But
what
is
the
time
scale
for
removal?
So
how
quickly
could
a
young
person
on
turning
18
suddenly
then
find
themselves
being
subject
to
forms
from
Evil
because
yeah,
obviously
that's
very
concerning
thank
you.
U
Okay,
I'll
go
back
to
the
beginning
of
the
age
assessment
question.
First,
our
age
assessments
are
very
thorough,
so
it
is
a
Merton
compliant
age
assessment,
we're
still
doing
the
compliant
age
assessments
and
they
get
added
to
when
they
get
bits
taken
away.
But
it's
still
regarded
as
the
most
appropriate
and
the
most
assessment
that
we
do
with
young
people
that
we
believe
to
be
under
18
and
the
compliant
age
assessment
will,
more
than
likely
take
two
to
three
appointments
of
an
hour
and
a
half
to
two
hours
per
session.
U
It's
done
with
an
appropriate
adult,
it's
done
with
an
interpreter,
but
it's
got
to
be
the
right
interpreter
for
The,
Young,
Person's
language,
and
it's
done
in
a
safe
and
secure
building
where
the
young
person
feels
safe
in
relation
to
the
home
office's
assessments
that
they're
doing
if
I
think
they're
not
doing
compliant
age
assessments,
because
what
I
understand
I,
I,
I,
I
I
have
to
be
very
careful
really
at
this
point,
because
I'm,
an
officer
of
the
the
city,
council
and
I,
don't
want
to
necessarily
wander
into
politics.
U
But
the
home
office
have
made
a
decision
that
they're
not
going
to
follow
as
I
understand
the
moment.
Compliant
age
assessment
approved
ads
work
that
gets
done
with
unaccompanied
Sam.
Seeking
children
are
children
who
might
be
our
young
people,
it
might
be
children
at
the
point
of
entry
in
Kent
and
that's
the
decision
that
they've
made
and
and
so
yeah
I
can't
really
comment
on
that.
U
I
might
have
my
own
views
on
that
one,
but
it's
not
really
for
me
to
comment
so
the
cost
to
out
there
isn't
a
cost
for
us
doing
remote,
comply
and
age
assessment
other
than
the
statutory
costs
of
having
social
workers,
and
it's
just
one
of
our
statutory
obligations
as
it
is
for
all
looked
after
children.
U
U
They
are
social
workers
that
we
looked
after
children
and
those
social
workers
will
have
looked
after
children
who
were
leads
UK
children
and
under
companies
I'm
seeking
children
on
their
case
loads,
and
we
have
two
or
three
ex
well
who
were
regarded
as
local
Regional
experts
who
do
all
our
training
for
our
social
workers,
but
which
I'm
part
of
that
group
that
does
similar
to
any
for
those
social
workers
and
so
that
doesn't
actually
cost
us
any
money.
In
relation
to
doing
this.
U
The
assessments,
except
obviously,
that
the
lower
social
workers
yeah
the
home
office
assessments
they
have
I
understand
they
have
recruited,
but
not
been
too
successful
in
their
recruitment
of
social
workers
to
be
based
in
and
around
the
Kent
area,
to
do
some
form
of
an
assessment
it
hasn't
trickled
through.
Yet
what
that's
looking
like
and
what
that
will
look
like
in
the
future,
but
I
think
it's
just
the
early
days.
U
Yet
of
these
of
some
of
the
the
legislation
changes
that's
taken
place
well,
I
think
I've
covered
everything
there,
so
yeah
so
yeah
yeah,
so
the
the
so
we
have
a
fairly
mature
set
of
accommodation
for
unaccompleted
Assam
seeking
children.
That's
been
developed
with
our
unaccompleted,
the
sound
seeking
children,
so
many
of
them
don't
and
can't
and
struggle
to
live
within
family
homes.
So
we
have
them
in
two
types
of
accommodation
for
the
majority
of
them,
which
is
supported
lodgings.
U
So
it's
someone
correct
me
on
this
one.
It's
level
one
Foster
carers,
but
it's
not
the
full
fostering
assessment
that
takes
place
for
those
carers,
but
they
are.
They
live
in
a
family
home,
but
it's
what's
called
a
supported
lodgings
effectively.
The
young
person
has
their
own
key
and
comes
and
goes
and
is
supported
to
live
in
that
family
home,
but
isn't
in
a
foster
placement.
Then
the
other
large
group
of
young
people
live
in
what
we
got
regard
as
semi-independent
living
now.
U
That's
a
fairly
mature
type
of
accommodation
for
undergarments
I'm
seeking
children,
not
just
in
Leeds
but
across
the
country,
because
it
is
recognized
that
lots
of
the
youngsters,
the
1617
nearly
18
year
olds,
do
struggle
and
and
would
struggle
to
live
in
a
family
setting
but
can
live
in
a
small
group
setting
with
other
unaccompleted
sounds
so
you
can
children.
So
in
Leeds
we
will
have
any
number
of
uncommon
little
sand,
so
you
can
send
support
livings,
probably
about
eight
supported
group
livings
in
in
Leeds.
At
this
moment
in
time.
U
That's
just
a
number
off
the
top
of
my
head.
It
might
be
a
little
bit
less,
maybe
a
little
bit
more
and
that
seems
to
work
well
for
the
under
company
exam
seeking
children's
who
were
post
16
but
below
18.
Any
unaccomput
of
the
sound
seeking
child
below
the
age
of
16
will
be
in
foster
care.
We
won't.
We
won't
budge
on
that.
U
The
people
might
want
to
be
elsewhere
and
might
want
to
be
in
semi-independent
living,
but
we
wouldn't
deem
as
appropriate
for
somebody
who's
under
16
to
be
living
anywhere
other
than
a
foster
placement,
and
we
have
two
or
three
outstanding
Foster
carers
who
take
our
own
accord.
Exam
seek
until
New
under
15
and
also
what
we
do
is
we
do
the
welfare
assessment
and
either
one
over
16
but
might
have.
Some
vulnerabilities
will
also
live
in
Foster
placements
as
well.
U
So
it's
not
a
it's,
not
a
dividing
line
between
16,
you
and
semi-dependent,
and
on
the
16
in
foster
care.
We
have
a
number
of
over
16s
in
Foster
placements
because
we
deem
them
to
be
quiet.
We
deem
them
to
be
vulnerable
and
need
extra
support
and
do
need
to
be
living
in
a
family
and
compost
removals.
It
hasn't.
It
hasn't,
come
through
to
leads
yet
so
it
it
may
or
may
not
impact.
We
don't
know.
U
What's
going
to
happen,
there's
lots
of
legislative
change
that
have
taken
place
which
have
been
mentioned
in
this
report,
but
we
don't
know
the
implications
of
that.
One.
We've
had
no
hint
whatsoever
that
any
any
uncommon
Sam
seeking
child
who
is
currently
16
17
about
to
be
18,
is
about
to
be
forcibly
removed.
So
we
just
don't
know
and
that
will
have
an
impact
on
pathway
planning,
but
we
will
be
in
Leeds
as
I
think
to
be.
U
First,
most
local
authorities
will
be
looking
to
support
those
unaccompanied
Islam,
so
you
can
children
as
care
leavers,
and
we
would,
as
we
would
support
any
other
care
leaver
in
Leeds
and
we'll
just
have
to
see
what
happens
with
the
legislation
as
and
when.
M
You
so
yeah
I
mean
I
can
well
foresee
some
some
Court
authentication
in
the
future
on
this
one,
but
just
thinking
then
about
once
they've
turned
80
and
if
they
still
have
needs
that
their
eligible
needs
under
the
care.
Back,
then
will
will
that
responsibility
put
up
to
pass
like
to
Adult
Services,
then,
in
terms
of
they'll,
obviously
still
have
the
pathway
plan,
but
if
they
they're.
M
U
As
I'll
look
at
children
who,
because
their
leaders
do
yeah
and
they'll
have
PA
attached
to
them,
it
might
be
just
worth
that
at
this
moment
of
time.
We
are
aware
that
we
we
we're
aware
that
we
don't
know
what
might
happen
in
relation
to
legislation.
So
we
are
trying
as
fast
as
we
can
given
the
the
limited
time
that
we've
got
because
of
the
age
of
the
young
people
trying
to
get
their
legal
status
resolved
before
their
late
scene.
S
U
Because
that
might
just
give
them
a
little
bit
more
kind
of
assurity
to
remain
in
the
country
and
the
home
office
might
not
be
able
to
do
what
we
think
they
may
or
may
not
be
doing
when
this
legislation
fully
feels
blue.
So
if
we
can
get
there
leave
the
remain
sorted
before
they're
18,
and
we
are
doing
it
at
this
moment
in
time,
doesn't
seem
to
be
any
any
barriers
to
that.
That's
what
we
are
doing
if
we
can.
A
U
Age
assessment
will
usually
take
which
will,
if
we,
if
six
weeks,
it's
probably
a
good
good
figure,
we'll
try
and
get
an
age
assessment
completed
within
six
or
eight
weeks,
because
it's
not
just
the
two
to
three
appointments
with
the
young
person.
It's
making
sure
that
we
can
do
it
in
a
safe
environment
for
the
young
person.
It's
then
making
sure
we
can
get
an
appropriate
adult.
At
the
same
time,
then
we
can
get
appropriate
adult
and
interpreter
all
lined
up
for
all
three
appointments.
U
If
we
need
three
appointments,
we
want
the
same
interpreter
and
the
same
appropriate
adults.
So
that's
sometimes
the
delays
that
take
place.
But
if,
if
we're
in
control
of
the
numbers
that
are
coming
through,
which
we're
not
necessarily
at
this
moment
in
time,
we
will
be
doing
age
assessment
from
the
start
to
finish
within
within
six
to
eight
weeks.
T
Sorry
I
just
thought
it
would
be
helpful
to
just
start
interjecting
that
as
well
I'm
a
solicitor
from
Legal
Services,
my
name's
Sarah
townend,
and
so
we
deal
with
quite
a
lot
of
matters
where
perhaps
age
assessments
have
been
challenged
and
the
outcomes
of
those
age
assessments
and
I
thought.
P
Thank
you.
It's
just
to
continue
on
the
age
assessment
and
how
you
exactly
you
must
attain
the
age
of
a
child,
because
I
know
it
is
very
difficult.
You
know
another
good
picture,
some
kids
go
on
at
15
and
they've
got
beards,
and
yet
my
daughter
she's,
when
she
was
30,
she
was
still
having
to
saying
she
had
to
provide
ID.
So
I
assume
it's
in
the
medical
assessment
that
you
go
through.
It's
pretty
good.
Give
me
some
clarity
on
it.
Please.
U
Okay,
that
there's
no
medical
assessment
done
whatsoever
that
I
think
the
jury
is
well
and
truly
out
in
relation
to
Medical
assessments
of
children
and
young
people,
both
legally
and
morally
I.
Think
there's
no
been
answers
to
that.
One
I
think
there's
groups
of
social
workers
who
belong
to
certain
agencies
who
believe
that
it's
not
the
right
thing
to
do.
Medically
I
think
pediatricians,
collectively
have
backed
off
been
asked
of
being
involved
in
doing
medical
assessments
so
that
there
is
no
medical
assessment
done
whatsoever
for
on
the
complex
I'm
seeking
children.
U
The
government
has
raised
it
as
a
potential
tool
moving
forward,
but
there's
no
agreement
on
on
on
whether
that's
to
be
used
or
not,
and
there's
lots
of
lots
of
organizations
that
think
it's
not
the
right
thing
to
do
both
legally
or
morally.
In
that
case,
or
in
to
be
able
to
find
that
age
of
that
child,
so
American
compliance
age
assessment
is
done
by
two
qualified
social
workers
who
have
been
trained
very
specifically
to
do
age
assessments.
U
U
Those
specifically
trained
social
workers
will
have
knowledge
of
that
young
person
as
much
as
we
will
know
anything
about
them
at
the
point
that
they
arrive.
We
will
know
what
part
of
the
world
that
they
have
turned
up
and
we'll
know
what
part
of
the
region
and
the
country
that
they
have
come
from,
and
from
that
knowledge
we
have
a
bank
of
Knowledge
from
each
of
those
countries
in
each
of
those
regions.
U
That
gives
us
some
hooks
to
ask
some
of
the
questions
of
the
young
people
very
open
questions
very
safe
questions.
No,
it's
not
an
interrogation.
It's
an
assessment
of
the
young
people.
We
will
have
had
conversations
with
the
supported
lodgings.
If
we
move
them,
there
would
have
had
conversations
with
the
Foster
carers.
U
They've
talked
to
so
as
an
example,
we
do
know
in
some
parts
of
eau
de
Australia
that
schooling
won't
start
till
six
or
seven
years
of
age
in
certain
regions,
and
if
that
young
person
talks
about
starting
school
at
six
or
seven,
we
you
know
we
can
think
that
there's
a
hook
there.
That
might
think
suggests
that
they
are
within
the
range
of
what
they're
saying
and
then
that'll
lead
on
to
another
set
of
questions.
So
it's
not
a
medical
assessment.
It's
a
social
work
assessment
by
two
specifically
trained
social
workers.
U
We
will
also
be
looking
at
the
body
language
of
the
young
person,
we'll
also
be
looking
at
the
responses
to
the
questions
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
So
that's
why
it
will
take
sometimes
two
to
three
sessions
of
up
to
two
hours,
each
session
over
six
over
six
weeks,
six
to
eight
week
period.
But
if
that
answers
some
of
the
questions
then.
A
U
We
do
brief
assessments
where
we
will
it,
which
is
a
recognized
type
of
assessment,
where
we
will
have
a
young
person
at
a
hotel
claim
to
be
under
18,
and
then
we
will
go
and
do
that
brief
assessment
and
very
clearly
we
will
think
I,
don't
think
so,
and
we
will
have
done
that
assessment
on
how
physically
they
look,
but
that's
not
the
only
tool
that
we
will
use,
but
we
will
say
to
that
young
person
that
actually
we
don't
think
that
you
are
under
18
or
you
were
anywhere
near
under
18,
we'll
give
them
a
letter
we'll
give
them
a
contact
to
some
third
sector
organizations.
U
So
they
can
appeal
that
immediately
and
but
interestingly,
we've
get
very
few
appeals
of
those,
so
I
think
I'll
I'll,
probably
say
no
more
than
five
ten
I'm
guessing
here,
I'm
afraid,
but
probably
no
more
than
five
ten
percent
of
all
the
age
assessments
that
we
do.
We
will
deem
them
to
be
overrattled
over
18.
U
Piece
of
data
to
actually
just
going
to
say
something,
it
might
be
worth
saying
that
we
and
I
think
our
legal
represents
can
help
us
here.
We've
had
I
think
about
13
judicial
reviews,
ultimates
of
judicial
reviews
in
the
last
calendar
year
and
and
that's
young
people
we're
deemed
to
be
over
late
teen,
who
have
taken
us
to
court,
saying
no
we're
not
and
I
think
I'm
right
in
saying
that
leads
have
won
12
out
of
the
13
caught
threats
to
judicial
review.
A
C
I
just
wanted
a
little
bit
more
information
on
how
you
work
with
with
schools
and
colleges,
particularly
if
they're,
not
Leeds,
city,
council,
they're,
multi-academy
trusts
and
if
there's
any
conversations
with
the
children
in
terms
of
how
they're
settling
in
the
support,
they're
getting
and
also
emotionally,
but
also
around
the
language
as
well,
because
having
represented
somebody
who's,
a
teacher
of
course,
supportive
children
with
English
as
a
second
language
who
really
felt
that
in
the
school
she
was
in
in
the
multi-academy
trust.
It
was
very
much
lip
service.
C
The
support
that
those
children
had
so
how's
that
how
is
that
monitored
and
and
discussed.
G
So
that
the
support
for
young
people
will
be
as
looked
after
children,
they
will
have
an
educational
plan
so
personal
education
plan.
They
will
also
have
overset
by
their
own
social
workers
on
an
individual
level.
G
Any
issues
around
support
for
that
child
will
be
covered
in
their
individual
plans,
but
lots
of
there
are
many
many
schools
in
Leeds
that
are
really
welcoming
to
diversity
and
working
with
with
social
workers
around
that,
but
that
will
be
covered
on
an
individual
basis
as
a
looked
after
child
and
our
social
workers
with
their
corporate
parenting,
responsibility
will
will
look
into
that
any
particular
challenges
that
come
to
light.
U
Don't
want
them
to
say
that
we've
got
some
excellent
links
for
the
colleges
that
Patsy
said
earlier
and
if
there's
any
young
people
that
need
to
go
to
school,
rather
than
a
college
that
we
usually
access
one
or
two
of
the
high
skills,
rather
than
a
scatican
approach
to
putting
young
people
under
16
to
the
local
school.
Because
we
know
that
some
one
or
two
schools
are
very
good
at
offering
support
for
our
an
equipment
stand
seeking
children
who
would
be
in
high
school
high
school
age.
A
Thank
you
that
just
as
I
said
you
mentioned
earlier
on
that
generally
I'm,
a
company
young
people
are
coming
from
a
more
limited
geographical
area
than
we
might
expect,
but
where,
where
are
predominantly
people
coming
from.
U
So
Afghanistan
Eric
Australia,
Sudan
Syria
Iraq,
help
me
out
that
there's
a
small
number
from
Chad
isn't
there
but
they're
yeah,
they're,
Somalia,
Somalia,
sorry,
yeah,
Somali,
they're,
the
main
countries
where
they're
going
to
come
seeking
children
come
from
there's
a
whole
host
of
Albanian
people
that
are
coming
over
in
the
Kent
Coast,
but
those
those
have
been
sent.
We
have
two
albanians
I
think
but
they're
not
being
sent
or
dispersed
across
countries.
I
understand.
C
To
clarify,
just
on
the
back
of
your
your
answer
that
the
case
that
I
was
talking
about
it
wasn't
an
asylum
Seeker,
it
was,
they
were
just
general
ESL
children.
F
Yes,
that
age
I
was
just
interested
to
know
whether
there
are
any
examples
of
children
who
were
younger
than
the
15
to
17
and
a
half
age
group,
and
also
interested
to
know
I
think
you
referred
to
them
being
sent
from
the
country
of
origin.
Would
that
how?
How
does
that
actually
work?
Are
they
or
do
any
of
them
make
their
own
decision
about
simply
escaping
from
their
situation?.
U
In
the
last
year,
we've
had
two
children
under
the
age
of
14,
and
both
young
people
arrived
in
this
country
via
plane,
direct
from
the
country
that
they
came
from
that
was
sent
by
their
relatives.
U
U
J
Thank
you,
chair
I'm,
really
pleased
that
this
item's
come
to
our
scrutiny
board.
It's
it's
so
important.
J
Now
the
children's
Society
has
said
that,
under
the
provisions
of
the
illegal
migration
act,
2023
children
and
young
people
who
arrive
in
the
UK
seeking
safety
will
be
locked
out
of
claiming
Asylum
and
denied
the
help
and
protection
that
they
need,
and
officers
have
described
how
how
they
sis,
how
they
expect
some
of
the
ways
that
this
piece
of
legislation
is
going
to
impact
on
their
ability
to
to
care
for
these
children.
J
But
equally
John
made
the
point
that
we,
we
don't
know
the
full
scale
of
the
impact
of
this
legislation,
so
I'm
just
making
a
plea
that
we,
when,
when
officers,
are
in
a
position
to
understand
that
that
we
have
have
this
item
back
on
the
agenda
to
look
at
the
impact
of
of
what's
happening
to
children
in
our
city.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you,
I'm
sure,
we'll
make
sure
that
that
is
I'm
sure
you'll.
Make
sure
really
thank
you
for
that.
Thank
you.
Everybody
at
Castlevania,
final
thoughts.
Okay!
Okay!
Thank
you
very
much.
Thank
you.
Everybody
for
that
brings
us
on
to
item
nine.
That's
the
provision
of
ehcp
support
terms
of
reference,
Robbie's
running
back.
D
Yes,
thank
you
chair
just
very
briefly
to
provide
a
bit
of
context
on
this
this.
This
came
from
our
meeting
in
June
under
the
sources
of
work
item
where
the
board
agreed
I
think
to
look
in
detail
ehcps,
and
we
we
considered
a
draft
terms
of
reference
in
July
and
the
appendix
this
appendix
to
this
report.
D
Appendix
one
does
cover
the
Amendments
that
have
taken
place
following
member
feedback
and
they
were
mainly
around
including
Health
Partners,
expanding
the
witnesses
as
a
as
was
suggested
by
members
last
time,
and
also
to
have
a
more
focus
on
the
wider
work
of
the
sensap
team.
D
I
think
Phil's
here
chair
to
do
to
do
the
main
detail
on
this,
but
that
is
this
of
the
scrutiny
background
and
just
obviously
flag
up.
We
have
a
working
group
on
this
on
the
22nd
of
September.
Thank
you.
Chip.
D
Q
Thanks
chair
I'm,
relatively
brief,
set
of
remarks
realistically,
because
we're
conscious
that
the
security
board
is
requested
to
do
their
review
of
rehcp
processes.
We've
engaged
PWC
to
help
us
with
some
capacity
in
terms
of
looking
at
the
process
is
that
are
currently
in
place.
That
review
is
continue,
is
currently
in
train.
Q
It's
still
a
work
in
progress
and
we
we
are
having
sort
of
daily
conversations
with
PWC
about
their
findings
and
as
Rob
and
the
chair
have
indicated
the
suggestion
that
we're
going
to
make
to
the
scrutiny
bodies
that
we
bring
PWC
to
your
working
group
meeting
on
the
22nd
that
will
be
accompanied
by
Julie
Longworth
and
Kath
Lennon
in
terms
of
office
of
representation
from
that
and
then
PWC
will
be
able
to
tell
you
where
they've
got
to
in
terms
of
their
findings,
to
date,
fair
to
say
that
I
think
when
we
get
to
that
it
will
be
very
much
what
they've
found
in
terms
of
their
initial
findings
and
some
hypothesize
hypotheses.
Q
What's
this
plural
of
hypothesis,
hypotheses
of
their
findings
to
date?
I'll
share
that
with
the
the
board
in
an
open
and
transparent
way,
and
then
I
think
there
are
further
conversations
to
be
had
about
further
work,
both
in
terms
of
what
you
may
want
to
do,
and
also
what
people
WC
may
want
to
do.
And
then
we
can
seek
to
align
that
one
of
the
things
that
we're
just
working
on
at
the
moment
is.
We
are
seeking
to
strengthen
the
element
of
external
engagement
that
that
PWC
are
undertaking,
and
I
should
imagine
that.
Q
That's
something
that
the
board
in
particular
will
be
Keen
to
see
and
understand,
because
the
views
of
parents
and
carers
and
children
are
absolutely
at
the
heart
of
the
review
process
that
we're
trying
to
do,
but
because
of
the
desire
to
push
ahead
with
the
review.
That
has
meant
that
there's
been
a
challenge
over
the
course
on
the
holiday
period.
So
we're
doing
some
intensive
work
over
the
next
couple
of
weeks
to
try
and
pick
that
up
a
little
bit
but
we'll
be
able
to
share
some
more
detail
with
you
on
the
22nd.
Q
A
Thank
you
for
that,
and
obviously
that
today
is
not
to
do
that.
Piece
of
work
today
is
to
agree
these
terms
of
references
in
terms
of
pwc's
involvement.
I
know
we
discussed
at
the
premiere
one
of
the
things.
A
There's
a
board
we
are
Keen
to
be
involved
within
is
speaking
to
key
Witnesses
with
PWC,
in
particular
having
in
mind
service
users
the
lead
to
parent
care
reform,
for
example,
and
making
sure
that
we
as
a
board
are
part
of
conversations
with
key
stakeholders
in
partnership
with
PWC
with
pleasure,
but
we
want
to
be.
We
want
to
be
assured
as
a
board
that
we
have
been
part
of
those
conversations,
rather
than
it
being
an
external
process.
So
many
of
us
hear
from
so
many
residents
about
issues
around
dhcps.
A
That
I
think
that's
really
important.
That
was
something
that
was
very
clearly
communicated
at
the
at
the
pre-meet.
A
It
may
be
that
the
scope,
maybe
in
October,
to
look
at
that
Rob,
but
obviously
you'll
note
the
we've
altered
the
and
again
we
discussed
this
in
the
preemie.
We've
altered
the
terms
of
reference,
taking
into
account
pwc's
work
we've
and
to
reflect
this
slight
shift
in
in
Focus
working
partnership
with
PWC,
making
sure
we
embed
their
work
within
our
own.
Any
questions
comments
thoughts
at
this
stage.
It's
I'm,
hoping
it's
fairly
comprehensive,
yeah.
B
Thank
you
chair,
yes,
I
think
it
is
comprehensive,
just
a
thought
or
a
suggestion.
I
mean
looking
at
the
witnesses.
I
can
see,
we've
got
service
users,
so
the
leads
parents
Cara
forum.
Is
there
any
scope
for
involving
young
people
in
this,
whether
it's
the
youth
councils,
School
councils,
the
children's
mayor.
A
P
Yeah
I
mean
we
all
probably
have
HCC
hcps,
that
we
all
have
children
with
difficulties
in
our
world,
but
as
a
parent
of
such
a
child,
I
think
it's
really
really
important
to
make
sure
that
the
carers
board
are
involved
in
it
heavily
and
quite
a
lot
of
weight
is
given
to
them,
because
if
you
have
a
child
that
you
are
an
expert
in
that
field,
along
with
all
the
other
experts,
okay,.
A
A
As
so
often
we
have
to
speak
for
them,
but
I
think
it
would
be
really
helpful
to
find
a
way
of
capturing
the
young
voice
too.
I
should
I
suppose
declare
a
source
of
interest
there.
As
many
of
you
know,
I
have
a
child
with
fairly
complex
special
needs.
Any
other
thoughts,
observations,
comments,
yeah.
I
Thank
you,
sir.
Just
again,
I
think
I
will
go
back
to
the
last
meeting.
We
had
again
I
refer
as
a
parent
of
a
child
that
has
sinned
I,
see
in
this
report.
We
do
have
the
ehcp,
which
could
be
possibly
for
really
high
needs.
I
I
would
like,
for
you
know
this
to
also
concentrate
were
the
child
is
being
assessed,
but
the
assessment
is
not
that
you're
not
too
too
much
to
fit
into
the
ehcp,
but
at
the
same
time
they
do
have
needs
you
as
a
parent.
You
you're
kind
of
like
not
know
what
to
do.
You
do
as
much
as
you
can,
but
there's
no
provision
for
you
and
the
school
would
tell
you
things
like.
I
They
cannot
get
funding
for
certain
things,
and
so,
if,
if
possibly
that
could
be
looking
to
and
and
schools
be
provided
with,
that,
I
don't
know
funding
or
you
know,
materials
to
cater
for
kids
that
are
not
highly
on
the
ehcp,
but
at
the
same
time
they
do
have
special
educational
needs.
Thank
you,
chair.
A
Okay,
I
think
there's
two
pieces
and
I'll.
Let
officers
speak
to
this
more
fully.
Leeds
is
one
of
the
his
watches
me
defending
the
administration.
One
of
the
positives
in
Leeds
is
actually
an
ehcp
is
not
necessary
to
unlock
fronty,
so
we
have
ffi
in
Leeds
that
isn't
a
pre.
A
This
is
a
very
focused
scrutiny
piece,
that's
focusing
on
ehcps
and
some
of
the
statute,
because
each
ehcps
are
a
statutory
process
and
there
are
things
that
aren't
working,
which
is
like
vwc
are
involved
that
aren't
working,
that
we
have
a
duty
as
a
city
to
make
sure
we
get
right,
so
we're
complying
with
statutes
and
in
the
most
challenging
cases,
doing
things
better.
I,
don't
disagree
with
you
that
we
need
to
look
at
that
across
the
piece
as
well
and
I'm
sure
there'll
be
I'm.
G
Yes,
just
on
that
point
slightly
away
from
the
agenda
item,
we
are
part
of
the
Dalek
pilot,
where
we've
got
send
Navigators
we're
employing
some
send
Navigators
that
are
looking
into
access
to
Services
via
early
help,
so
that
will
be
covered
as
part
of
the
broader
early
help
and
they've
been
working
with
our
early
albums
in
supporting
parents
and
accessing
support
outside
of
the
hcp.
A
Q
Chair,
it's
it's
a
it's
a
helpful
reminder
from
the
Council
of
the
officers,
sometimes
get
into
assertive
certain
shorthand
when
we
refer
to
things
the
work
that
PWC
have
been
engaged
upon
and
recognizing
that
this
issue
about
alignment
in
terms
of
the
work
that
the
scrutiny
board
specifically
wants
to
look
at
is
very
much
broader
than
the
hcps.
It's
very
much
about
an
end-to-end
process
review
that
picks
up
what
happens
in
terms
of
the
child
at
his
first
interaction
with
the
local,
Authority
and
partners
right
their
way
through
that
process.
Q
So
just
to
assure
members
that
the
PWC
work
isn't
starting
and
ending
at
the
ehcp
process.
It
picks
up
elements
before
and
after
in
terms
of
that,
and
indeed
ffi
and
the
issue
about
its
juxtapositioning
with
the
hcp
statutory
process
is
a
key
area
of
focus
and
activity.
A
K
Just
want
to
add
having
it
spoken
to
friends
up
and
down
the
country.
This
is
definitely
a
struggle.
That's
happening
Nationwide
as
well,
so
it's
certainly
nothing.
That's
a
poor
reflection
on
the
cancer
I
just
want
to
say
that
it's
such
a
strength
and
I'm
so
pleased
to
see
that
that
we're
looking
into
this
so
thoroughly
and
that
we're
holding
ourselves
accountable.
It's
so
important.
A
Okay,
thank
you
for
that
anybody
else.
Okay!
Thank
you
very
much,
so
we
will
be
picking
that
piece
up.
Obviously,
it's
our
working
group
with
vigor
moves
us
then
to
item
10
the
work
program,
Rob.
D
Yes,
thank
you
chair.
Just
a
few
points
to
note
on
this
appendix
one
provides
the
work
program
for
the
remainder
of
the
2023
24
Municipal
year,
within
that
there
are
a
number
of
small
changes
but
Milling
around
timing.
I,
don't
think,
there's
anything
that
has
been
moved
too
dramatically
to
note.
There
are
two
working
group
items
working
group
meetings
rather
coming
up,
one
on
the
22nd,
which
is
the
aforementioned
the
ACP
and
then
a
further
one
on
youth
vaping,
which
is
on
the
27th
of
September,
the
latter
one.
D
We
do
hope
to
have
quite
a
multi-agency
attendance
from
Witnesses,
so
hopefully
we
can
get
yeah.
Thank
you,
chair,
I
hope,
for
hopefully
we
can
get
as
many
members
as
possible
to
attend
that
one
will
be
in
person.
The
ehcp
one
is
remote,
so
just
to
note
those
two
subtle
differences
other
than
that
actually
I.
Think
that
covers
everything.
Thank
you.
D
Just
just
brief
sorry:
cancer
there's
been
a
change
to
the
meeting
day,
which
obviously
quite
important
change
to
appendix
one
which
I
should
have
mentioned
so
just
just
to
highlight
that
to
board
members
that
has
moved.
We've
now
got
a
meeting
on
the
22nd
of
February
24
to
replace
the
March
meeting.
We
previously
had
two
meetings
in
March,
so
it
creates
better
space
in
between
the
two.
H
Yeah
can
I
just
ask
on
the
work
program
in
October
and
we're
looking
at
school
attendance.
The
School
attendance
up
there
I'm
just
wondering
what
we,
what
we're
covering
in
that
apologies,
I've
I've,
not
got
any
information
on
that
in
front
of
me
because
and
a
couple
of
meetings
ago
we
talked
about
children
who,
let's
go
we're
just
talking
about
ehcps
and
those
children
who
don't
have
the
hcps
but
can't
go
into
school.
H
You
know
they're,
finding
it
very
difficult
to
attend,
mainstream
school
and-
and
we
don't
have
provision
for
those
children
and
I
am
as
a
result
of
that,
a
group
did
contact
me
and
I
am
meeting
them
with
them
this
month,
hopefully,
and
and
I
will
obviously
want
to
feed
into
this.
So
I
just
wondered
what
what
is
it?
H
Is
it
General,
non-attendance
at
school
and
how
we're
chasing
that
and
what
we're
doing
or
will
we
be
bringing
that
that
kind
of
issue
into
that
as
well,
where
children
can't
attend
school
and
how
we
address
that.
D
Thanks
Council
Hazelwood,
yes,
it
does
so
you'll
recall
that
the
June
meeting
we
had
that
item
so
I
took
note
of
that
and
the
comments
of
yourself
and
a
number
of
members
were
were
part
of
that,
and
that
is
perhaps
my
titles
a
little
bit
a
little
bit
short,
but
that
is
part
very
much
part
of
of
that
item.
Yeah
yeah
thank.
A
You
when
we
shaped
that
I
had
made
sure
that
your
comments
were
captured,
so
we
made
sure
that's
for
me.
The
important
part
of
these
meetings
is
to
make
sure
we're
shaping
what
our
agenda
actually
looks
like
anybody
else,
Speak
now
or
hold
your
piece
till
the
next
meeting,
no
okay,
everybody!
Well!
Thank
you
very,
very
much
thanks
for
everybody's
contributions
today,
thank
you
officers,
exact
members,
I,
look
forward
to
seeing
you
at
the
working
group
and
some
of
you
at
Council
next
week
take
care
have
a
good
afternoon.
Everyone.