►
From YouTube: Leeds City Council-Infrastructure, Investment & Inclusive Growth Scrutiny Board 29th September 2021
Description
No description was provided for this meeting.
If this is YOUR meeting, an easy way to fix this is to add a description to your video, wherever mtngs.io found it (probably YouTube).
A
On
the
issue
of
road
safety
and
the
inquiry
that
we've
been
promising
ourselves
now
for
some
time,
if
not
years,
I'm
going
to
start
by
asking
members
of
the
board
to
introduce
themselves
for
the
benefit
of
our
attendees
and
also
any
members
of
the
public
currently
watching
via
the
webcast
and
I'll
come
to
our
our
guests
witnesses.
However,
we
want
to
describe
you
when
we
reach
the
substantive
part
of
the
agenda
for
which
you're
here,
so
I
will
start
with
lisa.
A
A
Councillor
paul
trustwell,
I
represent
middleton
of
bell.
I
am
also
chair.
This
scrutiny
board.
Okay,
we're
moving
on
to
the
agenda
proper
agenda
item;
one
appeals:
there
are
non-gender
item,
two
exclusions
are
public,
no
items
for
which
that's
applicable
agenda
item
three
late
items.
There
were
no
wait
items
agenda
item
four,
I'm
assuming
that
any
members
who
do
have
any
pecuniary
or
other
interests
will
have
declared
them
and
apologies.
We've
got
an
apology
from
councillor
shahzad
and,
as
councillor
walt
shaw,
pointed
out.
A
He's
subbing
thanks
good
to
see
you
neil
right,
moving
on
to
agenda
item
six,
which
basically
are
the
terms
of
reference
for
this
inquiry,
which,
as
I
say,
is
long
overdue,
but
we
have
postponed
it
deliberately
because
we
wanted
to
wait
until
we
had
the
opportunity
to
have
in-person
meetings,
especially
for
the
members
of
the
public
and
the
campaigners
who
we're
inviting
along
to
to
both
sessions.
I
mean
without
a
huge
introduction
from
me.
A
As
I
say,
the
the
the
figures
for
people
killed
and
seriously
injured
on
our
roads
has
been
a
subject
for
a
great
concern
for
the
board.
We
do
get
the
figures
every
year.
Now,
most
years,
certainly
since
I've
been
chairing
the
board
and
that's
about
the
last
five
years,
I
think
we
have
our
specific
sessions,
but
we
decided
last
year
that
we
really
wanted
to
drill
down
in
a
bit
more
detail
than
we've
been
able
to
before,
and
the
basic
reason
is
that
up
to
2010,
the
ksi
figures
were
reducing.
A
Targets
were
based
on
that
reduction
since
2010
the
figures
at
best
have
plateaued
and
at
worst
have
increased.
So
there
is
now
quite
a
gulf
between
the
targets
that
we
set
ourselves
and
the
actual
reality
and
final
point
for
me
is
that
this
inquiry
is
split
into
two
parts,
which
are
very
clearly
indicated
in
both
this
document
and
also
the
the
most
substantial
document
for
gender
item.
Seven,
and
I
will
try
and
be
disciplined
to
do
that
we
have
invited
campaigners
mean
it's
really
good.
A
I
can't
see
from
here.
Is
it
ian
hi
and
sorry,
please
forgive
my
my
my
my
eyesight.
A
Their
rule
will
be
primarily
to
contribute
to
our
next
session,
because
we
were
very
keen
as
part
of
this
inquiry,
to
invite
community
campaigners
like
ian
who's,
also
taking
an
academic
approach
which
is
very
welcome,
and
I
think
a
number
of
people
will
be
aware
of
the
the
invaluable
piece
of
work
that
he's
done.
So
with
that.
A
I
think
the
only
other
thing
I
will
add
is
that,
in
order
to
structure
the
discussion
rather
than
butterflying
all
around
what
is
a
rather
comprehensive
document
in
a
gender
item,
seven
I'm
going
to
take
us
through
it
section
by
section,
so
we
can
be
more
structured
and
focused
and
we're
not
fragmenting
the
discussion
by,
as
I
say,
butterflying
around
okay,
that's
a
bit
of
a
more
long-winded
introduction
than
I'd
intended.
A
But
with
that
I'm
going
to
move
to
gender
item
7
and
ask
I
think
it's
julian
mccloud
and
lindsay
mcgarvey,
who
are
going
to
lead
off
from
a
lead
city
council
point
of
view.
In
terms
of
introductory
comments,
I
I've
also.
I
was
also
about
to
get
to
the
executive
board
member
who's
very
welcome
councillor,
helen
hayden,
who
you,
I
think
you've
got
free
reign
to
chip
in
whenever
you
like.
A
That's
not
me
being
sycophantic.
It's
just
that.
I
want
you
to
be
able
to
contribute
to
the
appropriate
point
helen
and
then
I
will
move
on
to
our
police
colleagues
and
I
think
a
superintendent
superintendent,
edward
chester's,
said
chester's,
who
is
going
to
lead
off
on
that
and
obviously
then
I'll
open
up
talk
to
questions
and
comments
from
members
and
anyone
at
the
top
table
will
feel
free
to
chip.
In
with
your
responses
so
helen,
I
will
give
you
the
opportunity
at
this
stage,
seeing
as
you're
waving
your
hand,
there.
B
Thank
you.
It's
just.
This
is
an
incredibly
important
inquiry,
but
I
I'm
gonna
have
to
leave
about
11,
because
I've
got
a
low
carbon
food
launch
down
at
the
market,
which
is
very
exciting
as
well.
B
So
I'm
a
bit
double
booked,
but
I
wanted
to
be
here
to
just
lend
my
support
and
to
this
incredibly
important
agenda
item
and
thank
I
want
to
thank
scrutiny,
fault
for
the
inquiry,
because
we
do
want
to
get
it's
our
passion
and
what
drives
officers
and
and
ourselves-
and
I
know
all
of
you
to
get
down
to
zero
so
that
those
figures
are
zero.
B
There
is
no
appropriate
number
of
people
being
injured,
either
seriously
or
mine
or
minor
injuries
on,
and
certainly
no
number
that
is
acceptable
for
people
dying
on
our
roads
in
leeds.
So
I
really
welcome
this
inquiry
and
look
forward
to
seeing
the
results
of
it,
and
I
just
want
to
thank
the
board
and
everybody
here
for
for
their
contributions
and
apologies
for
having
to
leave,
but
I'm
I'm
assuming
I'll
get
fed
as
well
when
I
get
down
there.
So
thank
you.
Okay,.
B
Good
morning
everybody,
my
name
is
ian
greenwood,
I'm
a
resident
of
leeds.
I
don't
round
hay
and
I
have
got
two
hats.
The
house
I've
got
on
today
is
I'm
a
campaigner
for
road
safety.
I've
got
another
hat,
which
is
I'm
a
student
at
leeds
university,
studying
the
politics
of
road
death
understanding
why
people
don't
take
road
death
seriously?
So
I'm
really
pleased
to
be
here
today
and
to
hear
that
you're
trying
to
take
this
seriously.
B
K
Morning,
everybody
inspector
nick
berry
from
west
yorkshire
police,
I'm
an
inspector
based
in
lee's
district
and
I
sit
on
the
safer
roads.
Partnership
group
representing
the
police.
L
M
Good
morning
everybody
ed
chester's
from
west
yorkshire
police
I've
had
the
privilege
of
being
recently
promoted,
chair
to
chief
superintendent,
head
of
operational
support
division
at
wakefield,
but
that
brings
with
it
the
force-wide
county-wide
remit
for,
amongst
other
things,
rhodes
policing
so
delight
to
be
here.
I'm
also
a
member
of
the
safer
roads
exec
for
the
combined
authority.
M
J
Thank
you
very
much
chair.
Thank
you
members,
so
I'm
just
going
to
do
a
very
brief
introduction
in
terms
of
the
fact
that
the
report
covers
the
activity,
casualty
reduction
activity
that
we've
carried
out
in
leeds
over
the
last
couple
of
years,
you'll
see
from
the
report
that
it
hasn't
been
as
extensive
in
the
last
couple
of
years,
mainly
due
to
the
covey
19
pandemic.
J
We
also
cover
the
ksi
figures
for
the
last
five
years
and
there
are
well
we
can
get
on
to
the
detail
of
those
and
lindsay's
available
to
go
through
that
detail.
J
If
you
want
to
do
it
up
front,
but
it
is
the
issue
that
a
new
system
of
reporting
actually
has
possibly
set
us
back
slightly,
so
the
new
crash
system,
whilst
the
the
introduction
of
that
system
has
has
computerized
the
inputs,
but
what
it's
meant
across
the
country
and
specifically
across
leeds
is
that
actually
our
ksi
figures
are
going
up,
because
a
lot
of
accidents
that
were
previously
coming
being
recorded
as
slice
injury
accidents
are
now
being
recorded
as
serious
injury
accidents.
J
So
I
just
wanted
to
highlight
that
front
and
center,
because
it's
something
we
are
going
to
have
to
you
know
have
a
a
really
good
look
at
the
dft
has
has
provided
figures
so
that
we
can
going
forwards.
We
will
be
showing
just
the
adjusted
figures
for
the
past
few
years,
so
they
give
us
uplift
percentages
for
us
to
actually
adjust
the
figures
from
the
past
few
years,
but
it
will
show
actually
that
our
ksis
are
higher
than
we've
previously
reported
them.
J
The
service
and
the
safero's
partnership
is
working
on
vision,
zero.
At
the
moment.
We
we
don't
go
through
vision,
zero
in
this
document,
because
we
are
trying
to
finalize
a
draft
strategy
and
action
plan
which
is
we're
taking
to
the
executive
board
in
december,
but
you
know
safe
to
say
we
are
as
a
group
discussing
the
the
new
strands,
the
the
safe
roads
pillars
or
the
safe
systems
pillars,
and
that's
something
that
we're
working
with
the
police
and
our
partners
in
the
lead,
safer
roads
partnership.
I
I
I
Those
figures
are
unadjusted
in
section
4.21
and
then
there
is
a
further
table
which
offers
2016
to
2020
data.
So
I
I
guess
the
the
discussion
around
this
data,
I'm
not
sure
how
relevant
it
would
be
at
this
stage,
because
it
is
almost
between
two
different
systems.
I
The
the
reporting
as
well
is
in
the
traditional
sense
where
we
we
look
at
the
ksi's
and
then
split
it
up
into
to
vehicles,
ages
and
driver
types
or
groups
and
ages,
and
I
think,
going
forward
as
part
of
vision
zero.
It's
very
important
to
realize
that
although
this
has
been
the
way
to
report
in
the
past,
we
will
need
to
change
that
focus
and
very
much
look
at
the
causation
of
the
the
killed
and
seriously
injured
crashes
that
have
occurred
or
collisions
that
have
occurred.
I
A
Okay,
thank
you
lindsay.
I
think
when
we
reach
our
discussion
on
that
part,
then
it
will
be
open
to
comments
and
questions
from
members,
so
superintendent,
chester's.
M
Yeah
thanks
chair,
I
think
crash,
is
obviously
a
fairly
recent
change
of
methodology
in
terms
of
reporting
and,
I
suppose,
with
the
advent
of
any
such
system,
there
are
always
teething
problems
and
I
can
give
a
quick
example
of
that
in
terms
of
notification
of
fatalities
to
relevant
members.
M
So
teething
problems,
I
do
personally
think,
is
an
advancement
in
how
we
are
analyzing
casualties,
ksi
across
or
certainly
leads,
but
again
from
my
perspective
as
force
representative
right
across
the
west
yorkshire
county.
So
there
are
advantages
to
it.
There
are
teething
problems,
as
I
say,
but
overall
I
think
it
gives
us
a
much
better
information
and
intelligence
product
which,
and
I'm
sure,
we'll
come
to
it
in
due
course,
has
been
my
principal
observation
since
inheriting
the
road
safety
portfolio.
M
So
I
think
in
terms
of
an
information
and
intelligence
product,
if
you
forgive
the
police
terminology
for
one
minute,
because
that's
the
methodology
we
operate
along,
those
specifics
will
start
to
develop
from
crash
and
we'll
be
able
to
focus
our
operational
activity
a
lot
more
intelligently
around
that.
M
A
L
Just
one
additional
point
in
relation
to
trash,
if
I
may,
the
the
national
adjustment
on
the
historic
data
that
we
usually
rely
on
is
applied
to
every
force
area
from
down
the
country
and
in
practical
terms,
what
that
adjustment
allows
for
is
the
difference
in
the
categorization
of
injury.
That
crash
has
brought
about,
in
contrast
to
the
officer
generated
con
categorization,
that
we
used
under
stats,
19
and
in
a
really
simplistic
way.
If
you
think
of
this,
as
an
example,
it'll
illustrate
what
I'm
talking
about.
L
If
you
had
a
broken
finger
under
the
old
stats
19
data
collection
system,
an
officer
would
have
recorded
that
as
a
minor
injury
crash
automatically
categorizes
that
as
a
serious
injury.
So
it's
that
level
of
detail
that
we're
talking
about
it's,
not
a
massaging
of
figures
downwards.
It's
a
new
definition,
that's
applied
by
crash.
A
Okay,
thank
you
for
right.
As
I
said
at
the
outset,
I'm
going
to
go
through
the
report
section
by
section
in
order,
as
I
say,
to
structure
the
discussion,
although
I
suspect
there
may
be
far
more
questions
and
comments
on
some
sections
of
it
than
there
are
on
others,
so
starting
on
page
18,
and
this
is
of
our
our
printed
agenda
as
opposed
to
the
the
report
itself,
the
introductory
section.
Are
there
any
questions
on
that
section.
F
It
was
really
just
before
before
we
begin.
I
noticed
the
letter
from
jillian,
which
I
think
the
exec
member
said
in
a
response
to
a
question
at
full
council
that
she
would
lobby
the
department
for
transport
on
camera
criteria.
F
So
I
I
do
thank
her
for
that,
but
whilst
appreciating
that
she
does
have
demands
on
her
time,
we
have
been
waiting
for
this
for
a
long
time
and
I
would
think
it
is
appropriate
for
it
to
be
noted
that
there
should
be
a
deputy,
exec
member
or
someone
from
the
administration
throughout
this
throughout
this
meeting
to
hear
what
we've
got
to
say,
but
that's
not
to
do
with
page
one,
but
that's
just
my
feelings
before
we
start.
Thank
you.
A
Okay,
thanks
for
that,
it
is
obviously
an
issue,
that's
concerned,
and
that
has
arisen
in
our
discussions
on
in
previous
years.
I'm
sure
that
the
the
message
has
got
over.
Unfortunately,
logistically
we
can't
always
ensure
that
people
can
be
in
two
places
at
once.
In
fact,
we
never
can
ensure
that
so
moving
on
to
section
two.
A
Yeah
ian
what
I
would
say
from
the
change
that
normally
questions
are
for
members
of
the
book.
Let's
look
at
members
of
the
board,
but
I
think
with
the
leave
of
members
of
the
board,
because
we've
been
so
keen
for
the
participation
of
community
campaigners
like
ian.
B
Thank
you
for
making
an
exception.
I
appreciate
that,
and
I
just
want
to
raise
a
point
about
language
chair
and
which
I
think
is
really
very
important
and
reading
the
document
and
listening
to
the
introductions
this
morning.
It
seems
that
we're
in
this
transition
from
kind
of
old
speak
of
what
I
would.
B
B
Which
is
vision,
zero
and
reducing
road
danger
and
I'll
just
illustrate
that,
with
the
words
used
reduction,
is
your
title
of
the
appendix
so
that
completely
contradicts
just
the
way
this
is
set
out
today
is
casualty
reduction
activity
and
leads
it's
really.
Language
is
really
important
to
victims.
Language
is
really
important
in
terms
of
how
politicians
take
action
using
the
word
accidents.
I
know
dft,
don't
change
their
definitions,
but
the
use
of
accidents
is
also
problematic
and
the
third
thing
I'll
say
and
then
I'll
shut
up
is
the
word
victim
is
rarely
used.
B
I've
not
heard
it
today,
yet
I
think
you
introduced
a
chair
in
terms
of
introducing
today's
session,
but
in
the
documentation
I
couldn't
find
the
word
victim,
and
I
I
will
thank
you
for
the
invitation
to
talk
next
time,
but
I
will
emphasize
why
I'm
doing
what
I'm
doing
and
it
is
about
victims
and
the
result
that
then
follows
from
that
devastation
that
happens
to
victims
so
language.
I
just
want
to
make
the
point
about
language
today.
As
I
say,
I'll
shut
up.
A
Okay,
thanks
very
much
so
has
anyone
got
any
other
questions
to
raise
on
section
two.
A
It
may
be
that
we
can
concentrate
on
this
in
other
sections
that
go
into
more
detail,
because
obviously
the
first
two
chapters
want
of
a
better
expression
of
this
document
are
fairly
general,
but
on
paragraph
2.3.2,
which
is
on
page
22
of
our
agenda,
2.3.2
of
of
the
report,
can
I
just
ask
our
police
colleagues
about
pro
the
use
of
pro
lasers
and
I
suppose,
to
some
extent,
I'm
raising
this
because
of
my
parochial
experience
as
a
ward
member,
where
this
has
been
quite
a
moveable
feast
at
one
stage,
our
mpt
had
people
trained,
but
no
pro
laser.
A
A
We
now
seem
to
have
lost
most
of
those
trained
people,
and
it
makes
it
very
difficult
when
you've
got
that
fluctuation
in
footwear
fluctuating
picture
now.
I
suspect
some
of
this
is
down
to
the
fact
that
as
west
yoshi
police
have
been
recruiting,
hopefully
to
fill
some,
if
not
all,
of
the
vacancy
or
of
of
the
officers
lost
between
2010
and
2015.
A
There
are
more
demands
on
training
and
pro
laser
training
has
to
take
its
place
in
that.
Having
said
that,
as
the
report
very
rightly
emphasizes,
it
is
the
major
source
of
concern
within
the
community
when,
in
the
past,
the
police
and
crime,
commissioner,
has
consulted
local
people
on
their
concerns
and
priorities.
A
So
I'm
just
wondering
how
far
we
get
into
groups
because
again
in
my
area
and
I'm
sure
it's
not
unusual,
we've
now
got
the
situation
of
a
pro
laser,
but
we're
waiting
for
an
officer
to
be
trained
in
its
use
and
again
we're
offering
to
find
money
for
overtime
to
try
and
make
sure
that
more
officers
are
trained
in
issues.
So
sorry,
it's
quite
a
convoluted
question,
but
I'm
sure
that
it's
clear
what
I'm
getting
at.
No
that's.
M
Fine
and
it
makes
absolute
sense
chair,
thank
you
and
I
think
you're
absolutely
right
to
identify
the
training
challenges
that
the
the
force
has
got.
I
think
everybody
will
be
aware
of
the
proposed
uplift
around
20
000
officers
nationally,
which
gives
us
about
890,
which
is
significant
so
without
going
into
the
finite
detail
around
that.
We
know
that
there
are
multiple
challenges:
around
prioritizing
training
delivery
from
all
aspects
of
policing,
from
safeguarding
through
to
cyber,
which
is
an
emerging
threat
and
something
very
present
in
our
minds
at
the
moment.
M
But,
of
course
that's
not
to
dismiss
the
importance
of
rhodes,
policing
enforcement
as
well.
So
I
think
from
a
forced
perspective.
M
M
What
their
challenges
are
because,
certainly
whilst
we
look
to
protect
our
neighborhood
teams
and
ensure
that
they
have
the
capacity
and
capability
to
deliver
on
local
priorities,
oftentimes,
we
find
at
the
moment
that
they
are
drawn
in
to
call
handling
and
attending
the
999
calls
because
of
the
resource
challenges
we
face,
but
that's
clearly
not
to
make
excuses.
It's
about
how
we
might
work
more
intelligently
on
a
daily
week
and
monthly
basis.
So
nick
can
I
bring
you.
K
Obviously,
you'll
be
aware
that
there
are
train
staffed
in
the
neighborhood
policing
teams
that
use
the
pro
laser.
We
would
always
like
to
have
more
members
of
of
the
teams
trained.
K
They
have
to
go
to
at
the
moment
for
straining
school
to
have
that
done
through
driver
training,
as
I
understand
it,
and
they
do
have
the
pro
laser
and
they
use
it,
and
we've
had
some
really
good
results
from
it,
and
I
think
a
lot
of
it
is
put
on
social
media.
When
we
do
have
the
pro
laser
device
out,
it
seems
to
get
a
mixed
response
from
members
of
the
public
every
time
we
do
it,
and
but
we've
got
broad
shoulders
and
we're
quite
happy
that
we
are
effectively
the
challenges.
You
said.
K
We
did
because,
when
members
of
the
public
report
that
there
are
incidents
of,
for
example,
speeding
and
then
they
will
deploy
with
the
pro
laser
and
obviously
you'll,
be
aware
that
inspector
led
beta,
which
in
the
south
will
deploy
her
team
on
the
hotspot
areas
with
the
pro
laser
and
either
publish
results,
to
say
that
there
was
an
issue
or
there
wasn't
an
issue,
because
that's
often
the
case
sometimes
as
well.
K
Although
we
do
reports
of
speed
and
sometimes
members
of
the
public
when
we
go
and
do
the
enforcement
are
keeping
to
the
limits.
The
data
is
collated
under
operation
amberland,
which
is
the
neighborhood
policing
response
to
road
safety
issues,
as
highlighted
through
either
web
chat
or
packed
meetings
or
emails
to
neighbour,
policing
teams
around
local
problems
and
and
they
will
deploy
as
and
where
required.
K
Really
I
accept,
I
think
that
we've
we
could,
we
could
have
more
staff
trained,
but
it's,
as
mr
chester
says,
it's
a
balance
between
training
them
on
other
issues
like,
for
example,
safeguarding
cybercrime
and
all
the
other
demands
that
come
with
it
and
over
the
last
obviously
18
months.
K
The
focus
has
been
on.
Obviously,
trying
to
resume
some
sort
of
normality
around
the
issues
that
kovid
has
developed.
So
a
lot
of
the
neighborhood
policing
teams
were
involved
in
high-profile
hotspot
areas
around
education,
people
around
the
enforcement
of
the
kobet
legislation,
which
obviously
was
a
very
difficult
job
as
well.
C
Thanks,
chad,
it's
a
sort
of
the
same
same
sort
of
question
as
yours.
It's
about.
C
It's
about
the
approach
I
think
to
road
safety
and
and
in
our
awards
I
suppose
the
top.
The
top
issue
is
speeding,
particularly
now
we
have
so
many
20
mile
an
hour
areas
which
the
our
residents
say.
Well,
they're
not
enforced,
and
I
I
know
there's
a
criteria
and
there's
a
formula
etc.
But
as
far
as
president
is
concerned,
people
are
doing
30
miles
an
hour
and
20
mile
an
hour.
Why
is
that?
And
it's
this
almost
sort
of
the
silo
approach?
C
I
think
that
we
get
of
well
that's
a
police
responsibility
and,
of
course
the
police
haven't
got
the
resources
they
haven't
got
the.
C
Resources
and
sometimes
the
will,
because
of
the
other
side
of
the
same
coin,
I
suppose,
and
it
doesn't
help
and
I
this
is
not
meant
to
be
a
political
point
chair,
but
it's
a
fact
that
in
my
ward
I
can
only
speak
in
my
ward,
but
I
know
there's
been
a
lot
less
emphasis
on
road
safety
and
speed
enforcement,
because
we've
had
a
huge
reduction
in
our
pcsos
and
that's
not
a
west
europe
police
issue.
C
It's
a
council
issue,
but
it
is,
it
is
a
fact
and-
and
it
has
been
making
an
impact
so
when
it
comes
to
well,
yes,
we
can
deploy
the
pro
laser
or
we
can
put
some
officers
on
looking
at
parking
issues.
The
officers
ptsos,
who
sometimes
do
that,
are
just
not
there,
but
it
it
it's
about
whose
responsibility
it
is.
C
I
think,
and
and
it's
not
just
a
police
responsibility
and
and
it's
how
we
as
a
council-
and
this
is
sort
of
a-
I
think,
it's
part
of
the
tenure
of
the
whole
report,
really
how
we
as
a
council,
take
her
not
like
using
the
word
holistic
but
holistic
approach
to
it.
So
everybody
is,
he
sees
themselves
as
part
of
the
solution
and
if
I
can
just
sort
of
give
a
quick
example,
this
probably
isn't
even
a
question
chairman.
C
Yeah,
well,
I
I
suppose
it's
our
approach
to
it,
really
that
how
the
question
is
how
we
get
that
involvement
of
everybody
everyone's
seeing
it
as
their
responsibility
and
I'll
just
give
a
very
quick
example.
Again
parochially
in
my
wardrobe,
the
only
experience
we've
got
a
school
and
I
don't
see
which
one
starts
using
a
different
exit
entrance
gate
that
is
then
causing
a
problem
in
the
particular
street
where
that's
happening.
C
So
when
residents
complained
about
that
the
school
says:
oh
well,
no,
it's
a
police
issue.
If,
if
there's
poor
parking
or
speeding
call
the
police,
they
will
deal
with
it.
Well,
we
all
know
you
call
the
police,
it
won't
get
dealt
with
or
won't
get
dealt
with
it
at
that.
At
that
point,
the
school
said
nothing
to
do
with
those
with.
So
it's
that
sort
of
silo
mentality
that
says
well
as
the
school
should
be
saying.
C
What
is
the
impact
of
what
we're
doing
and
the
same
with
the
residents
the
same
with
businesses
that
you
can't
just
get
into
that
asylum
entire
fatality?
So
it's
about
how
we,
how
we
spread
that
responsibility.
So
people
understand
that
and
also
when
there
is
an
issue
who'd,
you
actually
go
to
to
get
that
approach,
because
if
you
just
go
to
the
local
neighborhood
police
team,
they
will
say
well
we'll
deal
with
that
issue,
which
is
the
parking
or
the
speeding.
C
But
we
can't
at
the
moment
because
we
haven't
got
anybody
available
and
it
never
gets
dealt
with
so
we're
not
getting
down
to
the
source
of
it,
the
the
cause
of
it.
It's
all,
it's
all
about
dealing
with
the
symptoms
of
it
and
because
of
resources
and
all
the
other
things
we're
not
even
able
to
deal
with
that.
It's
a
bit
like
it's
a
bit
like
nhs.
You
know
you
you're
trying
to
deal
with
the
symptoms
and
that's
taking
up
so
much
of
your
resources.
M
M
So
and
from
that
point
on
we're
reacting,
I
guess:
aren't
we
in
turn
rather
than
being
upstream
and
preventing
it
ever
being
an
issue.
So
so
it
is
understanding
and
creating
partnership
hubs
within
localities,
where
those
conversations
would
normally
take
place
as
a
matter
of
course,
rather
than
people
having
to
think
who
do.
We
now
need
to
engage
because
we're
changing
the
inn
and
the
out
gate
whichever
the
school
was
mentioned
there.
M
M
It
does
need
to
be
that
it's
just
facilitating
at
the
moment
and
again,
I
suppose,
with
a
governmental,
renewed
emphasis
behind
neighborhood
policing.
One
would
expect
to
see
again
named
offices
per
awards,
and
actually
we
do
have
that.
But
it's
again
without
reiterating
it
too
much
it's
about
the
wider
awareness
of
that
within
wards,
so
that
whatever
the
issue
under
consideration
is
becomes
natural
habit
to
consult,
engage
and
look
at
preventative
measures,
rather
than
it's
down
to
the
police
now
to
enforce
that
which
we
would
have
a
view
on.
I'm
sure.
A
Before
I
bring
you
back
in
jonathan,
if
you
want
to
come
again,
could
I
just
ask
what
imperatives
from
the
center
kind
of
disseminated
locally
in
terms
of
priorities
for
tackling
concerns
about
about
speeding,
anti-social
driving?
And
I
do
appreciate
that,
if
everything's
a
priority,
nothing's
a
priority
and
there's
got
to
be
some
sort
of
focus?
But
I
have
to
say
in
my
area-
and
I
hope
it's
not
atypical.
A
We
have
very
good
working
partnership
around
anti-social
behavior,
where
we
get
in
a
multitude
of
people,
housing,
youth
services,
police,
even
first
bus
because
of
some
of
the
incidents.
A
It
would
be
nice
to
replicate
that
in
terms
of
road
safety,
but
we
don't
seem
to
do
it
so,
as
I'm
just
wondering
how
are
things
driven
from
the
center
in
terms
of
the
prioritization
of
road
safety.
M
Okay,
so
if
I
may,
then,
if
I
start
from
a
national
perspective,
because
I
think
this
will
help-
hopefully
understanding
of
the
intent
which
exists
now
but
will
obviously
take
a
little
while
to
play
through,
I
think,
nationally
for
policing,
there's
a
recognition
that
roads,
policing
and
then
that
there's
there
is
clearly
a
wider
spectrum
around
road
safety,
generally
speaking,
but
from
road
to
policing
point
of
view,
there's
an
acceptance
that
that
has
lost
importance
over
several
years.
M
I
think,
having
been
involved
in
in
this
world
for
several
months
now.
I
can
quite
confidently
state
that
uk
policing
sees
all
matters
pertaining
to
roads
on
an
equal
footing
with
terrorism,
with
cyber
attacks
with
significant
safeguarding
issues.
So,
like
I
say,
I'm
confident
in
saying
that
the
state
has
afforded
to
road
spacing
activities
clearly
on
the
up
and
the
focus
on
that
nationally,
regionally
and
then
locally
for
west
yorkshire,
but
clearly
for
leeds
as
well,
is
very
much
coming
to
the
fore.
M
We
have,
I
hate
to
call
it
a
document
really
so
a
strategy,
the
strategic
policing
requirement,
which
encompasses
those
high-level
threats,
as
we
call
them,
is
being
lobbied
strongly
for
to
include
rhodes,
policing,
as
I
say,
on
a
similar
footing
to
the
other
threats
have
outlined
so
so
nationally.
The
impetus
is
there
clearly
that
will
take
some
time
to
play
through,
but,
as
I
say,
I'm
confident
that
that
will
start
to
become
one
of
our
priorities
for
west
yorkshire
and,
of
course,
leads
in
the
months
and
years
to
come
resourcing.
M
So
from
a
national
point
of
view,
I
think
that's
where
we're
at
currently
that
will
then
feed
into
the
development
of
our
strategic
plans,
the
priest
and
crime
plan,
which
I
know
is
under
refresh
at
the
moment.
For
obvious
reasons,
I
think
I
can
quite
plainly
say
that
that's
very
much
in
focus
as
well
for
deputy
mayor
for
policing.
A
M
Yeah
we
we
do
have
a
comprehensive
action
plan
around
that.
So
so
I've
explained
that
the
plan
up
to
recent
weeks
is
around
the
pillars
of
prevention,
pursue
protection
and
partnership
work.
We
we
are
discussing
how
we
now
translate
that
into
a
vision,
zero
methodology,
because
the
crossovers
are
quite
clear
and
evident.
There
are
aspects
of
our
plan
that
we
do
need
to
retain
in
a
separate
document,
because
it
will
relate
to
things
like
staff
training,
so
very
police,
specific
activity.
M
A
C
C
A
H
Thanks
chair,
I
agree
with
what
you
say
chair
you,
jonathan
said,
and
your
experiences
are
are
exactly
mine.
In
my
ward,
in
my
village,
we
have
a
very
close
relationship
with
the
neighborhood
police
team
and
with
our
schools.
All
our
schools
do
posters,
stick
on
just
spins
about
speeding
and
so
forth,
but
the
it's
the
enforcement
I
issue
is.
That
is
the
biggest
issue
in
my
village.
In
that
we
work
well
with
the
police.
H
We
I
arranged
for
them
to
come
and
use
the
the
gun
at
specific
times
specific
places
they
come
once
and
then
f
then
follows
a
whole
stream
of
not
excuses,
reasons
why
they're
on
leave,
or
they
aren't
going
to
train
person
to
use
they're
going
to
avail
at
that
time,
and
it
just
becomes
really
a
bit
of
a
nonsense,
and
I
welcome
the
fact
that
the
west
yorkshire
police
say
if
a
strategy
is
going
to
work
in
partnership.
H
It's
going
to
listen
to
people,
it's
going
to
understand
the
communities,
but
how
are
you
going
to
do
that
because
there
obviously
is
an
issue
or
the
number
of
police
officers
available
and
enough
trained
officers
to
do
the
job.
So
I
just
don't
know
how
you're
going
to
move
we're
going
to
move
forward.
If
we
haven't
got
the
people
to
do
it.
M
So,
of
course,
each
district
commander
has
autonomy
for
the
resources
they
allocate
to
every
sphere
of
policing
activity
under
the
control.
I
think
it
would
be
wrong
for
central
control
to
be
imposed
on
district
commanders
in
that
respect,
because,
of
course,
every
district,
and
indeed
every
ward,
has
its
own
bespoke
issues,
don't
they.
So
I
suppose
I
I
completely
understand
the
sentiments
around
and
the
frustrations
about
perceived
lack
of
activity
and
without
sounding
too
apologetic
for
this.
Clearly,
there
are
some
very
tough
discussions.
M
M
A
Sure
and
of
course
we're
coming
on
to
that
I
mean,
I
think
we
all
understand
the
conflicts
too
few
offices
chasing
too
few
priorities,
but
I
suppose
my
question
was
more
about
those
officers
who
had
deployed
whose
role
is
specifically
traffic
and
nothing
else.
I
think
we
were
reassured
that
there
was
going
to
be
an
increase
in
in
in,
in
that
particular
complement
of.
M
So
yeah
and
if
it's
a
reassurance
again
reverting
back
to
a
national
perspective,
west
yorkshire,
compared
to
other
forces
across
the
uk,
did
see
the
sense
in
retaining
roads,
policing
resource.
I
think
there
are
other
forces
across
the
country
who,
because
of
resource
and
demand
conflict,
decided
to
dispense
with
rhodes,
policing
specialists
and
are
obviously
suffering
significant
issues,
as
a
result
of
that,
so
I
think
west
yorkshire,
on
a
false
basis,
were
pressing
enough
to
retain
resources
in
that
sphere.
I
personally
don't
think
they're
enough.
M
If
it
can
be
blunt,
I
suppose,
as
false
lead
for
rhodes
policing.
I
don't
think
there
are,
and
so
I
could
talk
through
the
deployment
pattern
today,
which
clearly
we
have
some
compared
to
other
forces
across
the
country,
but
in
terms
of
what
we're
trying
to
achieve
it
isn't
sufficient.
I
don't
think,
but
those
funding
and
deployment
resource
allocation
discussions
are
still
to
be
had.
I
Thanks
here
it's
lindsey
sorry,
I
think
it's
just
important
to
remember
too,
that
the
the
vision,
zero
approach
might
see
a
change
to
the
way
that
we
enforce
and
the
responsibility
might
not
just
be
on
the
police.
I
So
there's
technological
advancements
that
could
be
used
around
detection
and
that
could
be
in
vehicle
detection
and
that
might
seem
quite
far
away
at
the
moment,
but
that
collective
action
and
movement
towards
vision,
zero,
could
see
changes
in
legislation
around
how
vehicles
or
drivers
should
can
be
enforced.
So-
and
I
know
that
paul's
working
with
the
camera
partnership
at
the
moment
around
changes
to
help
with
that
enforcement
as
well.
I
So
I
think
we
all
just
need
to
remember
that
the
current
way
of
enforcement
might
not
be
the
future
way
as
well,
and
it
might
be
there's
more
cost-effective
ways
and
the
bonus
isn't
going
to
be
just
on
the
police.
So
it's
about
looking
forward
and
better
use
of
resources
as
well,
so
yeah.
We
just
need
to
keep
an
open
mind
about.
What's
coming
down
the
line.
A
A
Obviously,
the
perception
is
that
people
see
tearaways
flying
around
the
street
like
any
problem
of
that
nature,
they
want
it
hitting
with
a
stick
and
we
as
board
counselors
want
to
hit
him
with
the
stick,
and
I
suppose
it's
that
kind
of
sharpening
of
the
issue
that
makes
us
home
in
on
enforcement,
but
lindsey's
quite
right.
You
know
at
the
end
of
the
day
we're
not
going
to
cure
we're,
not
going
to
address
these
problems
or
achieve
the
objectives
without
a
lot
more
cooperation
and
the
jigsaw
puzzle
fitting
in
together.
M
Yeah,
I
suppose
just
on
that
point
and
and
thank
thank
you
obviously,
for
the
supportive
comments
there,
but
we're
really
clear
so,
for
example,
on
the
anti-social
behaviour
front,
that
the
12-year
old
on
a
quad
bike
tomorrow
afternoon,
motoring
around
an
estate
is
clearly
the
potential
ksi
statistic
of
future
weeks
and
months.
So
we
do
come
back
to
the
partnership
effort
to
intervene
early
and
prevent
hopefully
rather
than
react
and
we'll
be
the
onus
for
us
yeah.
Thank
you.
H
Yes,
just
to
say
it
is
a
matter
of
perceptions
and
when
you
get
in
a
war,
a
parish
council,
13
councillors
working
closely
with
the
police,
understanding
that
and
any
any
at
any
time
police
can
be
taken
off
to
do
with
something
more
urgent.
They
understand
that,
but
they
also
don't
understand
why
the
police
don't
come
back
and
and
then
deal
with
and
deal
with
the
issue
and
the
issue
doesn't
go
away.
H
There's
understanding,
but
there's
also
frustration
as
well
and
to
be
just
left
thinking,
I've
yet
again
to
contact
the
police
and
try
and
re
rearrange
this.
I
don't
think
that's
the
council's
job,
if
I'm
honest,
and
then
you
give
up
because
you're
so
busy
you
give
up
on
it,
but
the
public
perception
remains.
So
I
think
yes,
there's
understanding
and
there's
a
close
relationship
between
the
parish
council
in
my
ward
and
the
police
on
a
monthly
basis
we
meet.
H
So
it's
just
frustrating
that
and
the
public
perception
of
things
that
nothing
has
been
done.
H
Whilst
there
are
idiots
driving
at
great
speed
through
the
village
and
in
our
village,
we
because
between
the
halifax
road
and
the
huddersfield
road,
we
we
did
a
traffic
count
the
other
morning
and
there's
400
cars
between
eight
o'clock
and
nine
o'clock
go
through
the
village
as
a
shortcut,
and
I
think
most
of
the
village
people
will
respond
and
that
knowledge,
that's
a
20
mile
limit
through
the
center
of
the
village.
It's
I
don't
think
the
village
people
were
ignoring
that
traffic.
H
It's
the
people
coming
through
the
400
people
coming
through
the
village
between
eight
and
a
half
in
the
morning
who
are
living
busy
lives
they
want
to
get
from
a
to
b
and
they
don't.
Even
even
though
there's
traffic
booms,
sleep,
displacement
screens
showing
you
speed,
it's
they
just
ignore
it,
because
because
then
no
it's
not
going
to
be
enforced.
That's
the
truth
of
it.
H
A
We'll
take
that
we'll
take
that
as
a
comment,
but
it
looks
as
though
we're
kind
of
going
in
the
direction.
Obviously
it's
early
days
in
terms
of
the
work
that
we're
doing
at
the
moment
of
trying
to
establish
how
we
might
have
more
localized
partnerships
and
not
necessarily
looking
to
our
police
colleagues
to
resource
and
service
those,
and
maybe
something
that
could
be
done
under
community
committees
and
communities.
If
that's
not
too
wide
an
area,
but
road
safety,
not
something
that
just
is
restricted
toward
boundaries.
G
With
regards
to
that,
I
was
actually
wanting
to
come
back
about
the
pro
laser
comments
that
you
made,
which
is
that
obviously,
the
pro
laser
I
am
assuming
is
the
standing
at
the
street
and
raising
the
vehicles
and
then
issuing
a
ticket
which
has
to
be
done
by
a
uniformed
officer
with
training.
I
have
a
lady
in
my
ward,
who
is
very,
very
active
with
the
syd
machine.
She
doesn't
share
her
data,
which
is
not
that
helpful,
but
she
does
collect
a
lot
of
data.
G
I'm
led
to
believe
by
facebook,
and
councillors
have
also
provided
sid
machines
for
lampposts,
as
of
the
local
parish
council,
and
the
question
really
was
is
which
influences
the
driver
behavior
the
best,
because
one
is
a
reminder
in
the
case
of
the
ones
on
the
lamppost
one
is
a.
There
may
be
some
enforcement
behind
it
and
the
third
one
which
is
operated
by
you
as
the
police
is.
G
There
is
some
enforcement
because
she
stopped
giving
a
ticket
and
it
issue
in
the
pocket
and
on
your
driving
license,
but
overall
which,
bearing
in
mind
the
limitations
that
you
have
and
the
reliance
on
volunteers
and
the
funding
that
councils
have
which
influences
driver
behavior,
mostly
across
the
piste
and
secondly,
with
regards
to
traffic
policing
and
roads.
Policing.
G
M
A
distinction
so
at
car
gate
at
wakefield,
which
is
the
the
first
base
for
the
eastern
side
of
the
county
and
then
also
trafalgar
house
at
bradford
for
the
western
side
of
the
county.
You
do
have.
I
call
well
they're
they're,
the
roads
policing
unit.
So
I
know
there's
a
bit
about
semantics
here,
but
there
is
a
distinction,
so
the
roads,
policing
unit
for
west
yorkshire
police,
are
your
specialist
responders
with
the
higher
level,
training
experience
and
skills
to
deal
with
some
of
the
ksi
matters
that
we've
already
referenced
this
morning.
M
Trained
investigators
who
will
command
that
scene
and
see
that,
through
to
its
resolution,
the
distinction
between
that
and
local
policing
will
be
local
officers
who
may
have,
in
varying
degrees
experience
and
skills
within
the
roads,
policing
arena.
They
are
district
officers
who
will
respond
to
the
lower
level
issues
around
traffic
enforcement
so
that
there's
that
force
district
difference.
If
that
makes
sense
but
paul,
I
think
you're
going
to
come
in
on
the
driver
attitude.
I
think.
L
Yeah,
I
think
the
point
you
raise
is
a
really
important
one.
Before
I
give
you
the
definitive
answers,
I
might
just
sort
of
point
out
that
we're
all
concerned
about
speed
because
speed
takes
lives.
That's
what
kills
people
when
it's
used
inappropriately
in
an
unsafe
setting,
but
there
are
a
range
of
operational
tactics
that
we,
as
a
partnership,
can
throw
at
that
as
an
issue.
It's
not
just
about
taking
somebody
to
court,
and
I
think
primarily
the
starting
point
is
invariably,
let's
get
some
evidence
around
the
scale
of
the
problem.
L
Let's
understand
the
time
of
day
the
type
of
driver,
the
type
of
vehicle,
the
dynamics
of
the
problem,
and
that's
something
that
we
really
can
improve
upon
collectively
as
a
partnership,
because
proper
evidence-led
problem
solving,
which
is
a
central
tenet
to
the
vision,
zero
approach,
the
safe
systems
approach
to
preventing
casualties
should
be
evidence-based.
L
L
Now
the
enforcement
takes
many
different
shapes
and
forms.
It
could
be
a
joint
initiative
involving
the
community
themselves,
working
alongside
a
pcso
and
neighborhood
policing
officer.
It
could
be
a
roads,
policing
officer.
It
could
be
a
combination
of
all
three
at
different
times
of
day.
It
could,
in
certain
circumstances,
involve
the
deployment
of
mobile
speed
enforcement
safety
cameras
or
indeed
the
installation
of
a
static
camera
vision.
L
Zero
actually
is
a
platform
around
which
we
can
better
collaborate
and
deliver
a
joined
up
solution
so
that
if
some
of
these
expensive
resources
read
them
in
the
local
authority
or
indeed
the
police
are
brought
to
bear
at
that
location
or
we
invest
some
valuable
time
in
working
with
the
community.
It's
done
to
maximum
effect.
L
Now,
having
been
party
to
the
deliberations
around
vision,
zero
in
the
lead,
safer
road
partnership,
I
honestly
believe
there's
a
real
commitment
there
to
improve
this
frontline
operational
collaboration
so
that
the
existing
resources
that
we've
got
never
mind
any
growth
that
may
happen
in
the
future.
The
existing
resources
will
be
better,
focused
and
better
coordinated.
L
So
there
is
no
simple
answer.
It
depends
on
the
mindset
of
the
driver,
their
understanding
of
the
danger
that
they
create,
because
that
will
shape
their
attitude
and,
of
course,
that
can
only
be
achieved
for
ongoing
engagement
and
reinforcement
of
the
importance
of
compliance.
But
they
are
all
valuable
and
legitimate
tactics.
Once
we
understand
the
nature
of
the
problem.
G
I'm
led
to
believe
she
shares
it
with
the
council,
so
probably
says
it
with
jillian,
I'm
not
sure,
but
the
sid
machines
that
counselors
and
parish
councillors
fund
do
collect
that
data
on
the
machine,
but
getting
that
data
actually
out
of
the
machine
by
the
council
is
an
impossible
task
now,
because
I
believe
that
they
stopped
taking
out
those
machines
some
time
ago
and
we're
going
to
train
us
up
and
now
that
they're
not
able
now
do.
I
have
the
capacity
to
adapt
our
laptops
to
actually
collect
that
data.
G
So
if
you
weren't
enabled
beforehand,
some
parish
councils
are
and
are
collecting
it,
then
you're
not
able
to
be
enabled.
Now,
I
believe
so
we're
at
that
position.
But
ultimately
that
data
is
collected
and
where
it
is
collected
and
in
my
own
parish
council,
which
is
wrong
where
it's
collected,
we
get
a
very
good
picture
of
rawdon
itself
and
where
those
sids
are
and
what
data
they're
collecting.
G
We
aren't
professional
enough
to
be
able
to
analyze
the
next
step,
which
is
what
we
do
to
slow
people
down.
We
can
tell
that
they're
going
fast
on
what
time
they're
going
fast
and
whether
they
slow
down
as
they're
approaching
the
state
or
whether
they
speed
up
when
they're
going
away
from
it.
But
we
can't
actually
get
the
next
step,
which
is
what
the
public
wants,
which
is
to
slow
those
vehicles
down,
because
we're
not.
A
A
There
have
been
initiatives
where
volunteers
have
been
able
to
use
sids
and
in
some
cases,
even
pro
lasers,
in
order
to
clock
people's
speeds
and
for
the
vehicle
owners
then
to
receive
a
warning
letter.
Clearly,
that's
not
a
ticket,
but
it
is
another.
You
know
helps
to
pull
people
up.
I'm
just
wondering
whether
what
what
the
view
is
of
that
approach,
because
I
know
alongside
that-
there
is
fear
about
the
security
and
safety
of
the
volunteers
because,
as
we
know,
some
drivers
take
exception
to
being
told
that
they're
driving
too
fast.
L
Yeah
right:
okay,
thanks
chad,
the
the
schemes
to
which
you
refer
commonly
known
as
community
speedwatch
type
initiatives.
They
take
place
something
down
the
country
in
various
guises.
L
Other
schemes
operated
involve
a
joint
approach
between
the
police
at
either
a
constable
or
a
pcso
working
handing
glove
at
the
roadside
with
the
community
and
that
can
legitimately
result
in
in
two
possibilities:
an
actual
stop
of
an
offending
vehicle
by
a
police
vehicle.
L
That's
further
down
the
road
which
is
very
effective
because
you
have
face-to-face
contact,
you
identify
the
driver
and
you
can
go
down
the
warning
or
prosecution
room
from
that
point
or,
alternatively,
it
results
in
the
generation
of
a
letter
to
the
registered
keeper
of
the
offending
vehicle
where
you
have
community
soul.
Community
activity
of
that
type
tends
to
be
in
the
more
rural
leafy
force,
areas
up
and
down
the
country.
L
Now
I
have
the
privilege
of
leading
the
the
police
speed
enforcement
unit,
and
I
know
from
bitter
experience
that
in
our
urban
environments,
regrettably,
my
support
staff
mobile
operators
encounter
significant
violence
and
physical
attack
on
the
vehicles,
with
the
benefit
of
that
experience,
I'm
very
very
cautious
about
allowing
the
public
to
take
what
is
a
type
of
proof,
piece
of
equipment
and
use
that
in
a
pseudo
enforcement
rule.
Even
if
it's
just
warning
letters,
I'm
not
eliminating
that
as
a
possibility.
L
The
shelf
life
of
a
warning
only
type
approach
is
very
limited
because,
with
the
advent
of
social
media,
it
quickly
becomes
known
that
all
you're
going
to
get
is
a
letter
through
your
letterbox,
which
is
a
metaphorical
tap
on
the
wrist
we
have
to
have
in
our
mind's
eye
a
means
of
escalation
to
the
next
level,
I.e
prosecution,
if
we're
to
embark
on
that
sort
of
strategy.
L
So
so
that
would
be
my
word
of
caution.
Health
and
safety
concerns
for
the
public
needs
to
be
properly
thought
through,
and
we
need
to
acknowledge
the
limited
shelf
life
of
a
warning,
only
type
approach
and
have
an
exit
strategy.
Either.
We
acknowledge
that
we've
had
a
short-term
benefit
and
then
see
what
happens
or
if
compliance
continues
to
be
poor.
We
then
need
to
embark
on
the
next
stage
to
up
the
ante
and-
and
that
needs
to
be
part
of
a
well
thought
through
deployment
strategy
for
for
speed
enforcement.
A
L
I
I
was
going
to
say
just
that,
it's
great
that
the
community
generating
this
data
ed,
highlighted
the
importance
of
information
feeding
the
machine
that
then
directs
resources
and
that's
something
we're
really
passionate
about
in
the
police.
We're
not
the
only
source
of
data
regarding
collisions,
speed
compliance.
We
have
colleagues
across
well
many
different
stakeholders
that
have
stuff
to
offer,
including
the
community,
so
that
data
from
your
sids
for
me
is
really
really
valuable.
L
In
helping
you
know,
people
such
as
nick
here
deploy
their
valuable
resources
to
best
effect,
and
indeed
in
certain
circumstances,
and
there
will
be
opportunities
for
me
to
deploy
static
and
mobile
speed
cameras.
So
the
issue
and
I'll
pick
this
up
with
colleagues
in
highways
is
how
we
use
that
information.
L
That's
generated
from
the
sids
in
our
problem-solving
approach
alongside
the
formal
traffic
flow
survey,
data
that
comes
from
those
strips
that
you
see
across
the
road,
because
it's
just
another
form
of
data
that
can
help
us
give
a
better
understanding
on
the
degree
of
non-compliance
that
particular
stretch
of
road
has,
and
particularly
the
times
of
day
when
compliance
is
at
its
worst
and
that
again
helps
us
focus
our
resources
in
in
the
right
area.
At
the
right
time.
J
Thank
you
chair,
so
I
think,
unfortunately,
I
I'm
not
aware
of
this
specific
sid
data
council
wodsworth,
but
it
may
be
that
our
traffic
management
colleagues
are
receiving
that
data
from
the
lady
in
question.
So
I
will
take
that
back
and
and
just
double
check.
We
do
the
traffic
engineering
side
of
things
we
do
tend
and,
as
paul
has
just
said,
we
do
do
different
types
of
counts.
J
If
we
think
there
is
a
speeding
issue-
and
you
know
that
that's
a
process
that
we've
got-
that's
that's-
that
the
traffic
engineering
team
will
have
these
tubes
laid
across
the
road
that
can
pick
up.
You
know
it's
automatic
traffic
count.
It
can
pick
up
the
speed
of
that
traffic.
J
So
if
we
are
to
do
any
engineering
interventions,
we
would
do
it
off
the
back
of
automatic
traffic
counts
rather
than
the
sid
data.
Specifically,
but
clearly
I
mean
this
this
this,
it's
very
useful
visual
you
know,
demonstrating
the
issue
demonstrating
the
community
is,
is
has
a
concern
about
speed
in
an
area,
so
I
think
they
have
a
you
know.
The
very
useful
tool
have
to
have
a
place
in
in
the
work
that
we
do,
but
in
terms
of
engineering,
it's
not
something
we
would
rely
on.
G
J
I'm
not
aware
that
we
collect
data
from
any
of
the
sid
machines
in
the
city.
Am
I
able
to
do
it?
It
very
much
depends
on
whose
sid
it
is.
I
don't
know
that
there's
a
data
collection
feedback
on
the
sids,
so
it's
something
I'll
have
to
go
away
and
speak
to
our
traffic
engineering.
Colleagues
on.
If
we
had
the
data,
we
would
certainly
make
use
of
it.
J
As
paul
jeffries
has
mentioned,
you
know
be
able
to
look
at
times
a
day,
excess
speed
in
in
location,
so
we
could
certainly
make
use
of
it.
But
at
the
moment
it's
not
something
that
I'm
aware
we
have
access
to.
A
You
know
can't
be
diminished
and
I'm
sure
I'm
sure
you're,
aware
of
that,
that
you
know
it's
a
bit
like
justice
being
seen
to
be
done
in
terms
of
assuaging.
Some
of
the
community's
concerns
right.
I've
got
councilor
walsh,
councillor
die
and
then
back
to
council
evently.
B
Thanks
chair
always
interesting
to
come
into
a
scrutiny
board
as
a
substitute
and
to
be
have
to
look
at
such
a
detailed
and
interesting
piece
of
work
and
to
be
acutely
aware
that
you
may
be
about
to
launch
into
a
series
of
questions
that
have
already
been
covered
at
length
by
previous
bots.
So
if
I
do,
that
chair
feel
feel
free
to
interject.
There
won't
be
any
ego
from
myself.
B
I
think
it's
been
a
very
interesting
discussion
so
far
and
some
of
the
points
I
wanted
to
to
ask
I've
already
been
covered
and
it
it
is
interesting
how
we
sort
of
look
at
resources
and
how
resources
utilized,
for
example,
my
own,
my
own
ward,
more
generally
in
in
the
northwest,
we
have
a
a
serious
and
focused
police.
Serious
and
police
focus
focus
on
anti-social
behavior.
We
wouldn't
want
that
to
see
that
change,
because
that's
the
key
focus
of
our
communities
issues,
but
at
the
same
time
we
do
have
an
urban
speeding
issue.
B
We've
had,
in
fact,
quite
a
few
areas
in
leads.
I've
had
connecting
leads
experimenting
with
active
travel,
neighborhoods
to
reduce
rat
running
and
those
have
had
mixed
reception
and
a
mixed
impact.
What's
interesting
in
terms
of
behaviors
is
when
people
have
seen
what
would
be
necessary
to
absolutely
reduce
rat
running
and,
by
extension,
speeding
all
of
a
sudden
they're
going.
Well.
Actually,
you
know
those
those
chicanes
and
those
speed
tables
that
we
didn't
like,
but
they're,
not
such
a
bad
idea.
B
I
wouldn't
want
to
mention
any
higher
education
institutions
and
by
name,
but
you
know
who
I
mean
and
that
that's
problematic
for
our
community,
but
it's
interesting
how
we
can
experiment
and
see
how
those
impact
on
behaviors,
but
it
did
become
clear
during
all
this
process.
That
was
a
hardcore
of
drivers
who
really
just
don't
want
anything
to
impinge
on
their
ability
to
speed
and
colleagues
from
the
police
and
the
council
have
touched
upon
this.
But
already
so
I
don't
want
to
repeat
too
much.
B
But
how
do
you
think
attitudes
have
changed
in
in
the
last
few
years?
And
how
do
you
think?
What
do
you
think
of
the
most
effective
methods
or
combination
of
methods
to
keep
changing
those
attitudes,
because,
on
the
one
hand,
I've
got
constituents
who
particularly
got
young
children
at
local
schools?
Urban
speeding
is
a
terrible
problem.
B
You
know
we're
really
interested
in
seeing
what
you
can
do
and
the
other
people
who
will
tell
me
with
a
straight
face,
actually
there's
no
speeding
in
hyde
park
and
headingly
and
any
any
measuristic
car
movements
are
terrible
and
an
infringement.
So
we've
got
these
sort
of
diametrically
roast
attitudes.
So
what,
in
your
collective
wisdom
and
experience,
is
the
best
way
to
navigate
through
this
chair
because
my
community
is
facing
facing
these
challenges
as
well,
that
we
see
from
other
members
thanks.
M
So
naturally,
as
one
of
certainly
from
our
inward
facing
policing
strategy
around
road
safety,
we
would
always
be
looking
for
proactive
opportunities
at
schools
from
the
earliest
age
possible,
because
we
know
that
parents
and
I'm
generalizing,
obviously,
but
parents
are
sometimes
inclined
to
pay
far
more
attention
to
what
their
child
returning
home
from
school
with
message
of
the
day
is
compared
to
a
letter
that
pops
through
the
letterbox
from
the
police.
M
M
So
for
me,
yeah
without
labouring
the
point
early
intervention,
it
is
the
clearest
opportunity
for
me,
but
others
might
have
different
views
on
that.
I'm
sure
isn't
it.
K
Yeah,
I'm
just
conscious
we're
an
hour
and
fifteen
in
and
we've.
Maybe
I
don't
think
we've
had
the
sentence.
As
I
mentioned
the
word
speeding
so
far,
I
just
want
to
just
bring
it
a
little
bit
down
to
the
other
issues
that
we
we
face.
Speeding
is
a
very
serious
aspect
of
of
the
ksi's
and
and
it's
one
of
the
contributing
factors
not
wearing
your
seatbelt,
so
is
drink
and
drug
driving,
particularly
drug
driving
amongst
young
people,
is
almost
on
a
par
now
with
driving
with
alcoholic
systems.
K
There
was
surveys
done
in
a
in
a
college
in
west
yorkshire,
where
young
people
thought
that
cannabis
was
still
legal
or
was
legal
after
various
movements
between
class
c
and
class
b
drug
and
using
handheld
devices
there's
a
clear
loophole
in
legislation
at
the
moment
which
government
looking
at
it
was
brought
in
when
a
mobile
phone
was
used
just
to
be
used
as
a
mobile
phone,
but
a
mobile
phone
is
a
computer.
Now
you
can
book
a
flight
on
it.
You
know
you
can
facetime
somebody.
K
You
can
hold
a
zoom
conference
meeting,
that's
not
covered
in
legislation,
so
sometimes
the
police
are
up
against
changing
lifestyles,
much
particularly
younger
people
and-
and
it's
addressing,
as
mr
chester
said,
around
the
educational
things
I
appreciate
last
18
months
will
be
difficult
getting
into
schools,
colleges
and
universities.
Let's
be
honest
with
you,
because
universities
are
the
work
and
colleges
where
the
17
year
olds
are
starting
to
drive
my
son's
doing
driving
lessons
now
and
the
fear
of
god
at
him
is.
If
you
go
speeding,
if
you
get
six
points,
you're
gonna
get
banned.
K
You
know,
contrary
to
that,
there
is
also
a
definitive
group
of
individuals
that
are
using
the
road
for
criminal
purposes.
You
know
we're
not
just
talking
here
about
the
nhs
worker,
that's
a
few
minutes
late
for
work.
It's
doing
35
and
a
30.
K
I'll
use
the
invert
some
grey
vehicles
that
are
not
registered
to
anybody
that
are
on
a
higher
company
agreement
that
are
driving
through
the
county
for
shortcut
to
to
be
involved
in
criminality.
And
I
think
we
just
maybe
just
need
to
focus
a
little
bit
around
those
issues
that
have
raised
rather
than
just
speeding.
J
I'm
not
sure
whether
I
can
follow
that,
but
just
the
I
just
want
to
say
in
terms
of
the
work
we've
done
in
recent
years.
J
Certainly
the
roll
out
of
the
20
mile
per
hour
zones
across
the
city,
I
think,
has
been
very
visible
and
very
you
know
we
do
need
to
get
those
residential
speeds
down.
So
we've
got,
we've
got
the
the
speed
limits
now
we're
looking
and
it's
in
the
papers
about
where
we,
where
we
don't
have
speeds
low
enough
and
we're
having
to
retrofit
some
traffic
calming
measures,
but
I
think
you
know
certainly
that's
one
of
the
very,
very
visible
and
big.
J
You
know
something
that's
going
to
make
a
big
difference
in
our
in
our
localities
beyond
that
as
well.
You
know
we're
wanting
and
we
will,
as
part
of
vision,
zero
look
much
more
at
behavior
change
programs
and
they
may
be,
you
know,
focused
at
active
travel
and
getting
people
walking
and
cycling.
But
I
think
what
we
can
see
is
that
actually,
during
the
pandemic,
when
the
road
levels,
the
numbers
of
vehicles
on
the
road
dropped,
then
we
also
had
a
corresponding
drop
in
them.
J
A
Although
it
does
beg
the
question
that
a
lot
of
these
criminals
must
feel
that
they're
impregnable
and
untouchable
because
they
can
go
out
on
the
road
together
with
others,
not
necessarily
criminals
exceed
the
speed
limit
and
their
chances
have
been
stopped
or
penalized
seem
to
be
getting
remoter
and
remoter
that
that's
that's
very
clearly
part
of
the
psychology,
and
I
realize
it's
a
massive
challenge
in
terms
of
enforcement,
but
superintendent.
You
wanted
to
come
back
and
then
paul.
M
Thank
you,
yeah,
and,
and
not
to
digress
too
much.
I
guess
because
of
the
time
available
to
us,
but
just
as
a
point
of
reassurance,
so
nick
clearly
outlines
a
significant
threat
for
us.
However,
our
ampr
network
back
office
team
are
superbly
skilled
in
terms
of
identifying
great
vehicles,
recidivist
drivers
who
we
know
and
class
as
our
highest
risk,
offending
drivers.
M
A
Thank
you
and
later
on
in
the
report,
although
we
probably
won't
get
to
it
until
the
next
session,
it's
how
you
actually
flag
up
what's
happening,
because
quite
often
people
are
not
aware,
even
through
social
media,
of
all
the
really
good
enforcement
work
that
the
police
do,
and
I
suppose
you
need
to
to
get
it
out
there
so
that
people
are
aware
that
their
concerns
are
being
addressed.
You
know
it's
not
just
kind
of
evaporated
into
the
ether.
M
Yeah
there's
a
balance
and
I
think
the
the
unit
that
I've
just
mentioned.
We
wouldn't
ever
publicize
that
too
heavily
because
we
would
compromise
the
capability
that
they
offer
us,
but
I
do
completely
agree
that,
and
in
recent
days
I've
actually
talked
to
colleagues
about,
and
this
is
going
to
sound
a
bit
wrong,
but
a
more
aggressive
media
strategy
on
behalf
of
what
we
do,
because
I
think
there
are
messages
that
need
repeating
repeatedly
so
that
they
make
their
mark,
whereas
in
the
fast
changing
communication,
information
digitally
environment.
M
L
Yes,
thank
you.
Chair
nick
mentioned
the
the
the
grey
keeper
status
vehicles
and
I
think
I
touched
on
them
earlier.
If
I
can
just
illustrate
what
we've
now
embraced
is
a
real
opportunity
in
west
yorkshire
police.
L
When
I
started
in
my
current
role
four
years
ago,
each
year
we're
enforcing
around
170
000
traffic
offences
across
west
yorkshire,
30
torso
in
the
leeds
district,
unfortunately,
because
of
these
grey
vehicles
that
were
out
there
with
no
current
keeper
details,
those
that
had
been
identified
through
safety
camera
activity,
we
were
unable
to
take
further
action
on.
L
But
what
was
more
concerning
was
we
were
identifying
patterns
of
quite
deliberate
behavior,
where
people
were
trying
to
frustrate
the
prosecution
process
by
making
false
and
fraudulent
declarations
on
the
notice
of
intended
prosecution
that
sent
to
the
keeper.
In
inverted
commas,
there
were
clear
links
to
organize
criminal
activity,
including
the
supply
of
controlled
drugs,
child
sexual
exploitation
and
other
really
serious
criminal
matters
that
were
evidently
linked
to
the
vehicles
that
were
tripping,
speed,
cameras
now.
L
So
I
was
very
fortunate
enough
to
support
the
chief
officer
team
in
recognizing
the
problem
that
I
articulated
and
they
invested
some
investigation
posts
and
police
officer
course
in
my
team,
just
to
focus
specifically
on
the
problem
that
we
had
around
attempts
to
pervert
the
course
of
justice
in
traffic
cases.
L
You
know
the
the
the
vehicle
has
been
souped
up,
the
vehicles
that
are
driven
in
convoy,
very
high
powered
prestige
vehicles
and
some
in
some
occasions.
These
are
the
people
that
are
now
starting
to
feel
some
pain
and
we're
quite
unapologetic
about
that
approach.
A
C
Thank
you.
Conscious
of
the
time,
I
think
I
think
we
spent
a
lot
of
time
on
enforcement,
which,
which
is
fine,
we've
learned
a
lot,
but
in
some
respects,
once
you
get
to
that
enforcement
point,
you
you've
failed
because
you
know
the
the
the
the
speed
or
the
parking
or
whatever's
already
taking
place.
So
I
was
very
interested
in
that
approach.
That
paul
was
talking
about
that
laird
approach.
Where
you
started,
I
suppose
it's
been
like
a
pyramid,
isn't
it?
C
You
know
you,
you
start
with
the
education
and,
and
then
the
the
enforcement
and
the
prosecution
is
the
very
last
point
if
all
else
fails,
but
my
question
on
that
is
yet
that's
fine.
When
can
we
have
it
or
how
do
we
get
it?
C
And
I
think
that
comes
back
to
the
first
first
point
I
was
making
and
you
were
making
as
well
chair
is
how
do
we
actually
get
that
and
what's
the
word
embed
it
in
in
our
communities,
so
so
that
we
that
that's
the
approach
we're
having-
and
I
think
at
the
moment-
it's
very
piecemeal,
very
every
ward,
probably
is
or
every
pack
to
every
neighbor's
police
team,
depending
on
the
resources
and
the
personalities
in
the
team
and
the
ward
councillors.
Involvement
are
doing
perhaps
some
of
that,
but
in
different
ways
and
not
joined
up.
C
So,
for
example,
you're
asking
about
community
speed
watch.
We
have
some
of
those
in
my
ward,
supported
by
the
pcsos,
and
there
have
been
removable
fees.
We
have
quite
a
lot
of
sids
on
lamp
posts
and
we
used
to
get
data
from
them,
but
we
don't
anymore,
not
because
it's
not
available.
It's
just
that
the
people
who
used
to
do
it.
So
don't
do
it
anymore,
but
I
think
that's
part
of
the
levels
as
well.
C
Like
a
sid,
I
think
you
sit
on
a
lamp
post,
it's
more
about
speed,
awareness
and
speed
enforcement,
and
I
think
the
best
best
way
of
reducing
speed
is
have
a
sit
on
a
lamppost
and
a
child
in
every
car,
because
I
can
guarantee
that
if
you've
got
a
child
in
your
car
and
you're
doing
more
than
and
then
it
flashes
up
red,
they
will
tell
you
and
you
will
slow
down.
So
it's
that
about
awareness,
it's
those
different
levels,
so
that
would
that
they
were
really
the
point.
C
So
I
I
think
my
question
really
is,
or
or
perhaps
looking
at
the
recommendations
from
the
report.
If
we
can
look
and
look,
how
far
ahead
is
about
how
we
get
that
layered
pyramid
approach
embedded
in
the
community
and
just
a
couple
of
specific
questions,
if
I
can
for
for
jillian,
we've
got
this
appendix
a
which
has
got
12
roads
on
where
you're
saying
you're
doing
additional
work,
how
how
do
how
do
roads
get
onto
that
list
and
who's
putting
them
on?
C
If
and
if
we
have
in
our
wards
roads
which
we
think
fit
those
criteria?
How
do
we
get
them
on
so
that
we
can
do
some
more
work?
That's
a
very
specific
question
and
the
other
specific
question
is
when
we
get
data
from
the
the
tubes.
You
know
the
road
surveys
that
are
done
and
we
present
that
to
residents
and
or
a
traffic
engineer
comes
along
and
presents
it
to
residents.
C
They
say
I
know
you
may
think
the
speeding
along
your
road,
but
does
not
because
look
the
mean
speed,
is
only
24
miles
an
hour
but
over
24
hours.
But
when
you
actually
look
at
it,
you
see
you
know,
there's
peaks
where
the
means
the
the
the
speed,
the
actual
speed
in
a
certain
band
is
30
or
40
miles
an
hour
and
that's
at
a
time
when
perhaps
children
come
out
of
school
or
it's.
C
You
know
at
danger
time,
but
if
you
spread
that
you
spread
the
speed
out
over
the
whole
of
the
24
hours
mean
speed,
24
miles
an
hour
20
miles
an
hour
limit,
10
plus
two
you
haven't
got
a
problem
and
the
problem
is
dismissed
and
I
think,
coming
back
to
an
earlier
point
about
use
of
data.
We've
got
to
get
cleverer,
I
think
about
using
that
data.
Rather
than
just
saying.
Oh,
it's
the
mean
active,
the
the
the
mean,
and
I
just
wonder
we
couldn't
look
at
that.
A
bit
more.
A
J
Thank
you.
Thank
you
sure
I,
I
think
you're
right
councillor
bentley
we're
not
trying
to
suggest
that
in
the
first
place
that
24
miles
an
hour
is
an
acceptable
speed
in
the
20
mile,
an
hour,
speed
limit.
I
think.
A
number
of
years
ago
we
looked
at
85th,
percentile
speeds
and
now
we're
looking
at
average
speeds,
but
that
is,
as
the
guidance
allows
us
I
think.
J
In
reality,
what
we're
really
doing
is
prioritizing
based
on
limited
resources,
and
you
know
we
do
need
to
make
sure
that,
because,
because
we're
looking
at
putting
in
retrofitted
traffic
management-
which
is
you
know,
it's
expensive
when,
when
we've
got
20
mile
an
hour
limits
all
across
the
city,
so
it
again
it's
something
we
need
to
review
and
we
will
be
reviewing
these
sorts
of
issues
on
division
zero.
But
it's
not
something
we'll
necessarily
get
additional
funds
for
so
we
have
got
to
still.
J
There
will
be
prioritization
going
forward
just
in
terms
of
how
you
get
on
the
list.
So
the
traffic
management
team
is
undertaking
these
reviews.
They
are
doing
the
speed
surveys
and
then
they
are
providing
prioritization
based
on
the
criteria
that
you've
that
you
have
outlined.
So
it's.
If,
if
you
do
believe
that
you've
got
you
know
a
20
mile
per
hour
zone
with
an
issue,
then
if
you
can
send
that
to
the
traffic
management
team,
they
will
do
that
review.
E
Thank
you
chair.
I
was
going
to
bring
this
up
at
the
later
point
actually,
but
nick
mentioned
the
whole
problem
about
mobile
phones
and
cars.
E
So
if
I
can
just
ask
a
question
about
that
and
just
to
kind
of
set
the
set
the
scene
really
I'm
going
to
make
a
confession
about
that
in
a
few
seconds,
but
I've
been
driving.
E
You
can
lock
me
up,
then
I've
been
driving
since
r17
and,
as
we
all
know,
in
those
days,
cars
have
nothing
in
them.
You
might
have
a
radio
that
was
it.
It
was
a
much
more
physical
experience.
E
We'll
be
getting
back
down
anyway,
sorry
get
on
with
it,
but
the
point
I
wanted
to
make
was
that
I've
met
the
confession.
First,
in
1996
my
my
boss
said
to
me:
we're
going
to
have
a
conference
call
excuse
me
on
the
telephone.
E
I
worked
for
a
german
company
and
there
was
going
to
be
my
counterpart
in
the
south,
a
chat
from
germany
and
the
md
and
me,
and
there
were
three
of
them
in
abingdon
and
I
was
driving
to
manchester,
and
so
I
thought
well
I'll
probably
be
able
to
stop,
but
hearts
had
more
services
and
I
got
stuck
in
the
traffic.
E
So
we
were
four
lanes
on
the
m62
doing
up
various
speeds
and
the
phone
rang
and
of
course,
then
it
was
a
big
heavy
thing
which
gave
you
tennis
elbow,
and
I
was
on
that.
Talking
to
all
these
people
on
the
conference
call
all
kinds
of
different
subjects,
and
lord
knows
what
about
sales
figures
and
I've
never
done
it
since
and
the
reason
I
just
told
that
story
was
that
it
seems
to
me
every
time
we
now
pull
up
at
traffic
lights.
E
E
L
I
think
the
point
you
you
raised:
there
is
a
source
of
concern
right
across
every
police
service
in
the
uk,
and
that
concern
stems
from
some
badly
crafted
legislation
in
relation
to
mobile
phone
use,
but
particularly
a
case
and
the
case,
I'm
in
question
is
dpp
versus
a
guy
called
barretto
and
I
won't
lead
you
through
the
hand,
through
the
judgment
that
came
out
of
that
case,
other
than
to
say
what
it
created
was
a
situation
where
it's
not
an
offense
just
to
have
the
phone
in
your
hand
whilst
you're
driving
and
it
actually
places
a
burden
of
proof,
which
is
the
police
responsibility
to
establish
that
the
phone
at
the
time
of
the
alleged
defense
was
being
used
as
a
two-way
communication
device.
L
Now
that
presents
some
real
challenges.
I
have
a
professional
responsibility
for
operation
snap,
which
involves
the
public
using
a
facility
to
upload
footage
of
poor
driver
behaviour,
including
the
circumstances
that
you
described
there
for
for
our
consideration
for
prosecution.
L
Now,
in
light
of
the
case
involving
barreto,
I
have
to
evidentially
prove
that
at
the
time
that
that
phone
was
in
the
hand
of
the
driver,
it
was
being
used
as
a
two-way
communication
device.
L
This
is
something
that's
been
played
out
in
the
courts
and
there
is
now
a
move
in
the
in
government
ministry
of
justice
to
redraft
the
legislation
to
make
it
much
more
practically
applicable,
but
there
is
still
an
opportunity
where
they
that
the
points
to
prove
are
established
to
prosecute
a
driver
for
an
offense
of
being
not
in
proper
control
of
their
vehicle,
and
that's
the
piece
of
legislation
that
we
do
use
where
the
facts
are
made
out
to
support
the
the
not
being
in
control
of
the
vehicle
to
the
standard
of
a
reasonably
competent
driver.
L
So
we
do
prosecute.
But
there
is
considerable
frustration
about
the
legislative
legislative
framework
that's
available
to
us.
So
it's
a
make
do
a
men's
solution
using
another
bit
of
legislation.
That
only
carries
three
points
instead
of
six
points
for
the
mobile
phone
offense
less
than
perfect
solution,
but
please
rest
assured-
and
colleagues
here
I'm
sure
will
support
me
in
saying
that
officers
will
still
stop
people,
even
if
they
have
no
ability
to
use
the
primary
offence,
they
will
have
recourse
to
either
warning
them
or
indeed
alternative
offences.
L
But
it's
because
of
the
advent
of
mobile
phone
technology,
digital
technology
generally,
the
frequency
where
you
and
I,
as
mutual
members
of
the
public,
see
this
type
of
behavior.
It
is
bound
to
increase
because
everybody
has
a
handheld
communication
device
in
this
modern
age.
Yes,.
M
And
again,
I
suppose,
to
to
underpin
the
fact
that
we
are
very
much
alive
to
it
and
are
constantly
thinking
of
ways
to
tackle
it.
We
recent
initiatives
so
paul's
mentioned
operation
snap,
but
we
have
used
to
with
a
massive
degree
of
success
and
an
unmarked
hgv.
Actually,
so
some
of
our
officers
have
the
relevant
license
to
take
out
an
hgbon
which
clearly
gives
them
an
elevated
position
and
they
can
obtain
evidence
of
such
offending
far
more
easily
than
when
you're
at
a
ground
level
comparison
in
a
similar
type
vehicle.
M
So
we
are
constantly
thinking
about
how
we
achieve
best
evidence
how
we
can
tackle
that.
But
when
you,
when
you
talk
about
prevention,
is
quite
a
philosophy,
philosophical
one
really,
because
I
think
in
the
same
way
that
speed
awareness
courses
educate
around
the
fact
that
you
will
probably
reduce
your
travel
time
by
20
seconds.
If
you
do
40
miles
per
hour
compared
to
30
miles
per
hour
over
a
set
distance,
people
do
operate
along
pressures
of
modern
life.
M
In
terms
of
I
need
to
get
to
destination
x
as
quickly
as
possible
in
a
similar
way.
I
think
in
this
digital
area,
people's
lives
are
moving
quite
rapidly.
Aren't
they
so
they
feel
under
this
pressure,
to
use
these
devices
to
expedite
whatever
it
is
whatever
aspect
of
their
daily
life.
They
feel
needs
progressing.
M
So
in
a
similar
way
to
the
speed
awareness,
I
think
it's
educating
people
that
actually
you
can
leave
that
facebook
inquiry
holiday
booking
until
you
get
to
your
safe
destination
rather
than
to
do
it,
the
traffic
lights.
So
the
wider
education,
early
intervention,
preventative
thing
again,
I
suppose,
comes
to
the
ford.
Doesn't
it.
K
In
terms
of
the
I
go
back
to
the
educational
message,
there's
no
more
peer
pressure
than
somebody
tapping
you
on
the
shoulder
as
a
child
or
the
passenger.
Saying
to
you,
put
your
phone
down,
you
shouldn't
be
doing
that
dad.
You
know,
and
that
goes
back
to
what
we're
doing
in
schools
in
colleges
and
universities
and
jillian
a
bit
of
a
broken
record
here.
But
we've
got
the
matrix
signs
on
the
city
center,
which
I
think-
and
I
know
there's
been
some
mighty
issues.
K
I
think
we
can
use
those
signs
and
boards
across
the
city
center
to
put
messages
on
around
using
handheld
mobile
devices.
I
know
the
technology's
not
been
there
recently
to
do
that,
but
we
can
switch
that
message
between
that
and
speeding
and
seat
belts,
and
it
can
be
that
trigger
point
for
somebody
to
look
at
it
and
think
six
points
and
200
pound
fine.
You
know
on
the
handheld
device
and
if
you
get
a
new
iphone
these
days
now
and
you
connect
it
to
your
hands-free,
it
gives
you
an
option
to
disable.
K
So
many
apps
that
effectively
just
accept
a
phone
call
and
nothing
else.
So
again,
it's
about
pushing
it
with
young
people.
Who've
got
you
know
new
iphones
that
have
got
vehicles
most
vehicles
these
day
will
have
a
hands-free
set.
I'm
I'm
not
saying
that
using
hands-free
is
as
safe
as
having
no,
you
know,
driving
normally,
because
using
hands-free
still,
I
think
the
research
says
suppose
there's
a
particular
risk
because
you're
still
distracted
by
who
you're
talking
to
but
most
vehicles
that
you
see
these
days.
Certainly
you
know
last.
K
If
it's
been
manufactured
in
the
last
five
years,
we'll
have
a
hands-free
kit,
but
motorists
driving,
30,
40,
000,
pound,
audis
and
bmw
still
are
on
the
phone
and
it's
because
perhaps
they
need
somebody
just
connected
to
bluetooth
and
I'm
not
saying
that's
an
excuse.
I'm
just
saying
there
is
a
you
know:
there
is
an
educational
thing
around.
You
know
getting
motor
manufacturers
involved
in
this.
You
know
when
somebody
picks
up
the
new
vehicle.
You
know
getting
it
linked
up
to
the
vehicle
disabling,
the
apps
like
facebook
and
whatsapp.
A
Sorry,
the
legislation
up
with
reality,
so
I
think
that
would
be
very
useful
to
feed
into
what
what
we're
doing
neil
do.
You
want
to
come
back.
E
Very
briefly
chair:
if
I
can,
I'm
a
bit
of
a
poacher,
turned
gamekeeper
on
this,
so
I
think
our
chair
probably
agrees.
I
do
not
think
that
mobile
phones
should
be
in
cars,
not
just
with
the
driver.
Anyway.
The
passengers
is
another
matter,
but
just
very
very
briefly
about
two
years
ago
my
wife
and
I
went
to
a
wedding
in
weatherby
and
we
came
home
about
midnight.
My
wife
was
driving.
E
E
She
was
over
okay
midnight,
nothing
about,
and
yet
she
could
text
to
a
heart's
content
on
the
dual
carriageway
and
the
chances
of
being
caught
effectively
at
zero.
So
I
think
the
points
made
sure
thank
you.
Well,.
A
F
Thanks
jay,
I
think
I'm
not
the
only
one
shocked
at
some
revelations
that
the
driving
habits
of
the
buckley
household
but
and
yeah
exactly-
and
I
am-
I
am
really
keen
to
get
on
to
section
three
yeah.
F
To
move
on,
but
just
going
back
to
councillor
bentley's
point
and
to
jillian's
reply,
we've
got
the
tables
in
front
of
us
here
about
the
projects
and
further
works
and
the
costs,
and
I
do
have
to
say
it
frustrated
me.
You
know,
because
I
mean
the
costs
do
all
rack
up
quite
quickly
and
just
to
give
a
point,
and
I
could
give
further
examples.
F
But
there
are,
there
are
two
potential
planning
applications
coming
for
low
lane
in
my
ward,
one,
which
is
a
development
of
flats
and
another
which
is
a
supermarket
and
traffic,
have
come
with
this
nonsense
proposal
to
get
money
out
of
the
developer
out
of
these
two
developers,
potentially
up
to
140k,
to
go
on
to
a
roundabout
scheme
that
our
highways
engineer,
estimates
is
going
to
cost
three
times
that
amount,
and
after
ten
years
these
developers
can
pull
it
back.
F
That
is
what
that
is
a
source
where
we
can
get
funding
for
these
types
of
things,
and
I
think
you
need
to
take
that
back
to
colleagues
in
traffic
when
they're
looking
at
planning
applications
that
they
need
to
talk
to
members,
they
need
to
talk
to
the
police
need
to
talk
to
other
invested
partners
because
coming
up
with
something
on
a
desktop
level,
which
sounds
like
a
good
idea,
which
has
got
no
practical
chance
of
ever
being
delivered
before
the
developer
can
claw
that
significant
amount
of
money
back
is
to
me
absolutely
outrageous,
and
I
only
raised
that
because
I
see
the
council
bentley
brought
up
jillian's
reply
and
I
see
the
amounts
in
here.
A
No-
and
I
think
it's
a
very
valid
point-
jonathan
and
one
that
we've
addressed
before
to
some
extent,
we
need
to
be
asking
why
planning
our
part,
the
partnership
or
whether
they
are
and
what
resources
they
can
bring
to
it.
I
suspect
one
of
the
other
problems,
though,
is
that
if
you
require
developers
through
section
106
agreement
to
do
something
which
is
very
expensive,
they're,
going
to
cry
viability
and
object
to
the
amount
involved,
so
I
think
there
are
lots
of
different
dynamics.
F
I
mean
just
on
that
point
I
mean
I
do
accept
what
you're
saying
and
the
the
whole
project,
which
I
mentioned,
is
something
to
do
with
the
woodside
roundabout,
but
as
our
engineer
estimated,
it
was
going
to
cost
over
half
a
million
pounds
to
get
the
pedestrian
access
all
right
and
these
two
developers
were
contributing
towards
something
that
is
probably
never
going
to
happen,
whereas
that
funding.
You
know
that
we
see
the
amount
of
speed
humps.
We
know
that
there
are
pedestrian
crossings
needed
on
low
low
lane.
F
We've
only
got
the
refuges
at
the
moment.
This
is
where
the
money
could
should
be
spent
and
we
should
be
asking
for
it
and
it
you
know
it
should
these
are.
This
is
a
top
up
to
the
budget
that
that
traffic
has
and
it
needs
to
be
used
in
a
similar
sense.
I
think,
and
not
just
thought:
oh
well,
we'll
put
something
together
and
get
it
through
planning,
and
then
you
know:
if
it
happens,
it
happens.
F
A
I
think
you're
right
to
raise
the
point
and
I'm
sure
that
lots
of
ward
members
have
got
frustrations
at
an
even
lower
level
when
schemes
come
through
and
the
highways
measures
that
are
recommended
as
part
of
the
planning
process
seem
to
be
pretty
flaccid
and
limited,
and
I
think
we
need
to
ensure
that
highways
have
been
as
and
planners
have
been
as
robust
as
possible
in
terms
of
road
safety
measures.
So
I
think
I
think
you
fly
with
it.
Well,
we'll
take
that
as
a
comment,
but
we
I'm
sure
we'll
be
revisiting
it.
D
Yeah,
thank
you
very
much.
I'm
coming
on
to
the
mobile
phones
with
you
right,
and
I
think
it
is
right
opportunity
to
speak
because
of
if
we
look
into
the
picture
of
lead
city
councils,
a
badge
holder
for
private
hire
and
the
hacking
carriage
is
more
than
five
to
between
five
thousand
to
six
thousand,
but
at
night
I
can
say
95
percent
every
single
firm
doesn't
matter.
They
are
acne
carriage
or
private
higher.
D
Every
single
driver
for
the
uber
they
don't
provide
to
the
pdas
they're
on
the
mobile
phone
and
every
single
jobs
comes
through
to
the
mobile
phone
and
many
others
they're
providing
to
the
drivers
a
pda
pds.
They
look
like
to
me
not
exactly.
The
phone
is
not
diff
much
different
from
the
phone
right.
D
Otherwise,
that
job
is
if
it's
no
one
single
chain
like
if
there's
one
driver's
uber,
I
think
it's
nearly
1000
driver
chair
and
if
the
one
of
nobody
touched
the
phone
to
accept
the
job,
the
job
is
not
going
to
nowhere
at
all.
It's
staying
into
the
system
where
the
head
office
of
the
company
right,
but
I
was
looking
very
clear
on
to
the
government
website-
it's
not
very
clear.
Can
they
touch
yes
or
not?
D
But
I
yes,
I
can
understand,
and
I'm
sure
that
I
well,
some
of
them
might
be
drivers,
don't
understand,
but
they're
not
holding
the
phone
in
the
hand
they're
pulling
into
the
stand
and
whenever
the
job
is
there,
they're
clicking
it
and
each
driver
when
ending
the
job
they
have
to
click
as
well
right.
So
I
think,
is
we
needed
to
look
at
this
one
chair
as
well
beyond
this
video
as
across
the
city,
and
also
this
is
not
only
bus
issue
if
the
drivers
go
booked
to
touching
it
and
go
guilty.
D
The
two
licensing
committee
monday
sound
to
the
literacy
council.
It's
a
new
policy
by
the
lead
city
councils.
If
it's
any
drivers
go
guilty
onto
the
mobile
phone,
his
badge
is
going
for
five
years,
because
first
stage
is
between
the
police
and
the
drivers.
The
drivers
soon
go
guilty,
doesn't
matter
in
the
magistrate,
concord
or
stairway
goggles
here,
then
it's
a
stereo
matter
with
between
the
driver
who
go
guilty
to
the
elite
city
council,
vehicle
licensing
issue.
D
D
D
So
I
think
that's
that's
other
things
we
needed
to
look
at
where
we
are
exactly,
and
thus
it's
not
just
only
for
the
leads
issue
right
that
is
across
the
country
and
we're
just
talking
about
the
leads,
because
everything
is
moving
into
the
new
things:
new
technologies
right
and
without
you
know
this
all
to
the
pda.
No
chance
even
a
one
firm
can,
you
know,
provide
a
service
to
the
elite
resident.
K
Yeah,
it's
a
valid
point.
I
often
say
when
people
ask
me
this
question:
would
you
do
it
on
your
driving
test
and
most
people
say?
Well,
I
wouldn't
do
it
my
driving
test,
so
why
would
you
do
it
while
you're
driving,
so
you
you're
right,
you've
got
obviously
uber
drivers
expand
that
to
deliver
room
and
just
eat
which
everybody's
been
using
during
covid
and
driving
vehicles
having
to
use
their
you
know
to
either
accept
or
decline
the
the
the
delivery
or
the
job
or
whatever.
K
I'm
sure
members
of
the
public
here
and
you
know,
were
complaining
about
road
safety
would
say,
and
I
would
say
they
shouldn't
be
using
their
mobile
phone
device
for
anything
you
know
it
might
be.
They
could
pull
over
at
the
side
of
the
road
or
stop
the
vehicle
in
a
safe
way
to
accept
those
job,
but
not
while
the
driving,
because
that
momentary
glimpse.
However,
the
legislation
at
the
moment
is
not
fit
for
purpose.
K
It's
very
unclear
legislation.
It
was
supposed
to
come
in
early
2021
he's
still,
I
think,
going
through
various
stages
through
the
houses
of
parliament.
Obviously,
as
we're
probably
aware
that
it's
not
in
at
the
moment-
but
you
know,
the
advice
would
be
that
they
shouldn't
be
using
their
mobile
phone,
but
the
legislation
is
particularly
weak
in
relation
to
that.
So
for
us
to
enforce
it,
we
would
have
to
revert
to,
as
paul
said,
not
being
in
proper
control
of
the
vehicle.
K
L
Thank
you.
I
favor
not
getting
too
hung
up
about
specifically
mobile
phones,
what
we
should
be
talking
about,
and
certainly
in
terms
of
vision,
zero
methodology,
it's
a
it's
promoting
safe,
behaviors
and-
and
this
is
the
fundamental
difference
really
between
our
historic,
traditional
reactive
approach,
to
casualty,
reduction
to
the
notion
of
casualty
prevention
as
exposed
on
division,
zero.
L
We
talk
about
the
surf
systems
methodology
and
that's
not
well.
It's
a
significant
departure.
It's
a
culture
shift
away
from
re-engine
re-engineering
a
road
after
two
people
died
in
a
collision
because
of
a
b
and
c
factors
being
present.
L
So
in
terms
of
our
communication
and
engagement
plan
around
safe
behaviors,
going
forward
in
division,
zero,
I'm
pretty
confident
that
our
delivery
plan
is
going
to
reflect
not
specifically
mobile
phones
but
every
form
of
behavior
that
can
reduce
the
competency
of
the
person
behind
the
wheel
and
that
might
be
mobile
phones.
It
could
be
pressing
the
sat
nav
it
could
be
driving
with
you,
your
pet
dog,
on
your
lap,
which
is
a
behavior
that
you
see
quite
frequently.
A
G
I'll
be
very
brief,
chair.
It
was
really
about
what
you
just
said
about
advertising
the
unsafe
behavior.
Do
you
think
there
is
some
evidence
that
graphic
pictures
of
I
I
I
recall
some
time
ago,
someone
being
involved
in
that
and
they
and
they
it
was
a
fatal
and
the
phone
was
embedded
in
their
face
and
those
sort
of
pictures
do
bring
it
home
to
people.
L
L
We've
delivered
some
radio
advertising
around
a
number
of
themes
using
properly
directed
and
produced
quite
impactive
scripts,
which
which
brought
home
some
some
really
sobering
messages
on
casualty,
prevention
themes
and
that's
something
that
I'd
be
really
keen
to
develop
in
leeds
and
elsewhere.
As
we
move
forward,
because
every
opportunity
we
have
to
reinforce
the
key
messages,
around
casualty,
prevention
with
the
public,
safe
behaviors,
safe
people,
etc,
is
something
that
really
excites
me.
To
be
honest,.
M
And
just
to
add
to
that,
I
think
that
has
to
be
a
continued
investment,
because
I
think,
as
as
graphic
as
imagery
has
been
used
in
years
and
decades
gone
past.
If
it's
there
as
a
one-off,
it
quickly
becomes
a
wallpaper
for
one
of
a
better
phrase
that
people
are
desensitized
to.
So
it
has
to
be
a
constantly
developing
and
evolving
thing.
A
Okay,
thank
you
right.
I'm
gonna
move
on
to
section
three:
are
there
any
questions
and
jonathan,
I
knew
you'd
be
first
in
the
queue
on
this
that
we
haven't
already
covered
in
the
previous
discussions,
I'm
going
to
bring
in
jonathan
and
anticipate
that
he's
going
to
raise
issues
relating
to
safety,
cameras
and
enforcement.
Thank
you.
F
F
F
F
The
recent
re-adoption
of
the
status
quo
on
the
criteria
by
the
partnership
for
me
is,
is
just
a
non-starter
particularly
from
what
we're
reading
from
colleagues
in
highways,
some
of
whom
were
on
the
on
the
board
there
to
make
that
decision.
What
they've
said
in
their
letter
to
the
dft
doesn't
correlate
with
with
how
they
voted
on.
F
On
that
reassessment,
the
west
leeds
dispatch
website
yesterday
reported
that
over
2000
motorists
were
caught,
speeding
down
stanningly
road
in
armly
over
a
40-day
period
up
until
mid-july
this
year,
and
this
partnership
is
supposed
to
be
a
local
approach,
but
it
does
feel
just
as
remote
as
whitehall
to
those
of
us
on
the
ground
who
need
these.
This
equipment
to
be
installed
when
we
can't
even
respond
to
instances
like
2000
motorists
speeding
in
in
a
40-day
period.
L
Thank
you,
I'm
going
to
start
with
a
little
bit
of
context
of
them
speak
and
reinforcement
in
west
yorkshire,
so
west
yorkshire,
police,
myself,
mr
chester's,
are
responsible
for
enforcement
on
behalf
of
the
partnership
using
static
and
mobile
speed
cameras.
L
Please,
when
we're
talking
about
speed,
camera
enforcement
and
put
to
one
side
all
your
knowledge
about
pro
laser.
The
framework
around
which
you
can
use
static
and
mobile
speed
cameras
within
the
context
of
the
partnership
operation
is
governed
by
a
whole
different
set
of
legislation
and
dft
guidance,
so
in
2020,
west
yorkshire,
police,
on
behalf
of
the
partnership
using
those
safety
cameras
brought
about
prosecutions
in
respect
of
000
motorists
in
west
yorkshire
for
speed
and
red
light
violations.
L
L
So
let's
just
explore
that
point.
First,
speed
cameras
attract
no
grant
money
from
the
government;
they
have
to
be
self-sustaining,
so
we
have,
as
a
partnership
in
west
yorkshire,
retained
the
deployment
guidance
that
was
in
place
prior
to
the
devolution
of
speed
camera
operations
to
local
authorities
and
police.
L
When
that
was
devolved
and
we
filmed
the
partnership
in
west
yorkshire
to
deliver
speed
camera
operations,
the
partnership
retained
that
deployment
criteria.
Why
did
they
do
that
now?
Hasten
to
what
I
wasn't
around
at
the
time,
but
what
it
does
give
you
is
justification
and
necessity
for
where
you
put
your
speed
cameras,
so
we
can
say
categorically
in
west
yorkshire
that
we
comply
with
the
guidance
and
wherever
we
put
a
speed
camera
it's
because
we
have
an
evidence
base
of
poor
speed
compliance
and
the
history
of
collisions.
L
The
inspection
report
there
examined
everything
that
is
the
world
of
roads,
policing,
including
safety,
camera
enforcement,
and
there
were
two
relevant
recommendations
in
that
quite
far-reaching
national
inspectorate
document.
L
So
we
were
as
a
partnership
compliant
with
that
point.
The
second-
and
I
think
this
was
really
helpful
and
significant
recommendation.
Recommendation
number
eight
said
that
the
dft,
in
conjunction
with
the
home
office,
should
undertake
a
review
and
refresh
of
that
dft
document,
one
of
2007
and
that
was
actually
music
to
our
ears
in
west
yorkshire
because
we
recognize
the
limitations
of
the
current
deployment
criteria.
L
But
what
I'm
really
keen
to
ensure
that
we
retain
is
some
evidence
base
a
lower
threshold.
But
what
we
can't
afford
to
have,
in
my
opinion-
and
I
think
this
is
shared
by
the
partnership-
is
a
totally
random
approach
to
where
we
stick
cameras
because
we'll
we
will
lose
the
public
confidence
in
us
in
our
aim
to
try
and
tackle
true
risk,
and
it
will
play
into
the
hands
of
the
tabloids
that,
like
to
peddle
the
cash
cow
type
argument-
and
we
say
that
on
a
regular
basis.
L
L
The
latest
update
to
have
is
that
the
first
draft
will
be
published
will
be
released
to
the
working
group
for
comment
before
christmas,
with
a
view
to
the
final
revised
version
being
in
place
in
spring
2022..
L
Now
our
position-
and
I
want
to
re-emphasize
this-
is
that
we
want
to
retain
a
high-risk
criteria,
but
we
also
want
to
extend
the
reach
of
our
deployment
strategy
by
a
second
tier
which
reflects
emerging
risk
locations.
So
your
sites
of
concern,
for
example,
in
retaining
those
criteria
both
sets
of
criteria.
L
We
will
retain
the
integrity
of
the
operation
that
we're
doing
we'll
better
address
risk
and
going
back
to
an
earlier
conversation
this
morning.
The
use
of
speed
cameras
is
not
the
panacea
for
all
things:
speeding.
It
should
be
a
last
resort
to
go
down
the
enforcement
route
and,
through
the
adoption
of
vision,
zero
principles.
L
What
we
will
see
is
that
cradle-to-grave
problem-solving
approach
which
is
evidence-based
and
delivered
across
all
the
stakeholders,
so
I'm
eagerly
awaiting
the
first
draft
of
the
device
legislation
and
I
sincerely
hope
it
reflects
this-
need
to
extend
the
reach
of
our
cameras.
L
A
Yeah,
thank
you.
I
mean
I
will
bring
jonathan
back
in,
but
that
is
extremely
helpful
that
insight
into
the
current
process.
Have
you
got
any
feel
for
the
process
from
now
on
not
necessarily
time
scale,
because
you're
just
waiting
and
twiddling
your
thumbs
to
get
this
first
draft,
but
will
it
be
consulted
upon?
Will
it
be
put
out
more
widely?
Is
that
the
intention,
or
is
that
a
question
you
can't
answer,
because
I
think
I
think
going
back
to
your
initial
point.
A
My
worry
is
that
this
issue
has
become
very
politicized
and
there
are
some
political
parties
who
are
very
quick
to
condemn
others
for
being
anti-motorists,
and
I
think
it's
an
issue
where
there
has
to
be
cross-party
consensus.
Otherwise
we'll
just
come
up
against.
You
know
that
issue
and,
as
you
say,
the
red
tops
and
those
who
caricature
it
as
a
cash
cow.
L
The
dft
will
have
their
own
consultation
on
the
paper
before
it's
signed
off
by
the
minister
for
transport.
Clearly,
the
partnership
will
examine
the
document
and
take
a
view
on
any
feedback
that
needs
to
fall
out
of
that
first
draft.
L
In
many
respects,
it's
almost
a
shame
that
the
restrictive
guidance
we've
had
to
work
under,
as
has
been
so
long
in
its
revision,
because
police
officers
can
enforce
either
covertly
or
overtly
wherever
they
want
at
any
time
of
day,
so
it.
It
really
makes
little
sense
to
me
to
have
this
very
overbearing.
L
Very
rigid,
set
of
criteria
when
you
know,
as
I've
just
said,
police
officers
can
in
theory
and
what
they're
very
much
unfettered
around
their
deployment
in
communities.
So
who
knows
what
the
guidance
is
going
to
look
like
and
to
what
degree
they're
going
to
relax
it?
My
worry
is
that
they
sit
on
the
fence
and
it
becomes
well.
This
is
guidance,
but
you
can
actually
do
what
you
want
locally.
A
Thank
you,
paul
I'll,
come
back
to
jonathan
and
then
ring
casey
and
jonathan.
I'm
sure
you'll
want
to
come
back
on
this.
F
Yeah,
thank
you
chair.
I
I'm
sorry,
mr
jeffrey,
I
didn't
get
an
answer
on
on
the
criteria
itself.
If
all
three,
if
we
were
looking
at
general,
fits
cameras,
if
all
three
points
within
the
character
within
the
criteria
need
to
be
met
before
a
new
camera
is
installed
and
how
many
have
been
installed
recently,
I
I
do
understand
what
what
you're
saying,
but
it
you
know,
we
make
the
policy.
F
Whizzing
past
their
was
in
was
in
past
their
their
properties
and
so
on.
On
that
side
of
things,
it's
it's
for
us
to
deal
with
the
political
fallout
with
the
with
each
other,
with
the
public
and
negotiate
that
more
so
than
I
than
I
think
than
I
think
officers
funding
you've
mentioned
funding.
F
We've
mentioned
that
we
fund
sids
we've
mentioned
that
we
fund
that
we
have
funded
other
measures
as
well
through
through
money,
that's
available
to
us
locally,
and
I
know
that
these
sort
of
cameras
are
more
expensive
than
the
other
devices
that
are
available.
F
But
again,
that's
that's
decisions
that
that
we
have
to
make,
and
I
think
the
aspiration
that
you're
saying
that
we
want
to
change
the
criteria,
but
when
the,
when
the
opportunity
to
to
do
so
regionally
here
in
west
yorkshire
was
was
presented
to
us,
you
did
just
go
for
the
status
quo
and,
let's
keep
it
as
it
is.
Let's
there
was
no
change.
F
This
is
what
our
highways
officers
reported
to
me
that
in
in
the
review,
you've
re-adopted
the
criteria-
that's
been
there
for
the
last
10
plus
years
and
where,
where
the
cameras
have
placed,
I
mean
I've.
I've
not
submitted
it
previously,
but
this
is
a
night.
This
is
this
is
horse
vista
we've
got
new
roadside
here
and
we've
got
broadway
and
I'll
turn
it
around,
and
it
just
displays
there.
We've
got
five
or
six
cameras
along
new
roadside
and
we've
got
none
along
broadway
here
and
there
have
been
no
fate
up.
F
No
fatal
accidents
on
new
roadside
in
the
past
go
for
seven
or
eight
years
that
I've
been
in
a
horse
with,
and
we've
had
and
we're
going
to
hear
from
next
month,
the
mother
of
a
young
lad
who
died
in
a
speeding
vehicle.
Who
was
one
of
four
boys
that
died,
and
there
was
a
further
three
fatalities
in
that
accident
and
the
only
change
that
we've
seen
on
that
stretch
of
road,
the
flowers
that
she
plants
every
year
or
places
of
the
year
at
the
site
of
the
accident.
F
And
it
is
just
it
just
feels
wrong
and
it's
devolved
to
us
and
it
should
be
devolved
towards,
and
we've
been
completely
excluded
from
this
entire
process.
And
I
do
feel
it's
unacceptable
and
the
if
this
draft
is
coming
out
before
christmas.
A
Yeah,
thank
you
jonathan.
I
think
you
make
some
very
cogent
and
pertinent
points
which
we
have
rehearsed
previously,
but
as
as
members,
we
get
more
and
more
frustrated
that
we're
perhaps
not
exercising
as
much
discretion
as
we
can
do.
So
I
don't
know
if
the
figures
that
jonathan's
asphalt,
counselor
tailors
asked
for
are
immediately
available.
If
not,
then
you
can
feed
them
back
to
us.
Between
this
meeting
and
the
next
meeting,
he
asked
for
a
number
of
cameras
that
have
been
commissioned.
A
Could
I
ask
if
any
cameras
have
been
decommissioned
because
again,
there
is
a
a
a
lot
of
exchanges
from
time
to
time
on
social
media
that
you
know,
there's
no
film
in
a
particular
camera,
in
inverted
commerce,
so
yeah,
perhaps
if,
if
if
colleagues
from
the
police,
but
also
from
highways,
can
can
address
those
points.
L
So
the
the
criteria
as
it
stands
at
the
moment
in
the
national
dft
guidance
that
we
work
to
is
applied
by
each
of
the
local
authorities
highways
teams,
so
the
police
don't
have
any
role
in
that
the
identification
of
sites
is
a
local
authority
highways
matter.
The
feasibility
of
using
cameras
at
those
sites
when
they
are
identified
is
something
we
engage
on
together,
because
there
are
factors
that
we
have
to
take
into
consideration
around
the
feasibility
of
the
use
of
a
fixed
or
indeed
mobile,
camera,
so
in
in
terms
of
camera
enforcement,
the
leeds
district.
L
Currently
we
have
19
high-risk
mobile
enforcement
sites
and
a
total
of
118
static
sites.
We
have
a
number
of
those
sites
that
we
rotate
cameras
around
housings.
So
we
do
that
for
a
variety
of
reasons.
Some
of
the
old
technology
cameras
that
were
wet
film
cameras
that
require
developing
are
in
the
process
of
modernization.
L
L
In
terms
of
newly
commissioned
cameras,
I
I
can
research
it
but
being
pretty
familiar.
I
can
think
of
three
cameras
in
the
last
12
months
that
we've
we've
upgraded
in
the
leeds
district.
L
L
L
L
The
tipping
point-
that's
precipitated
that
review
has
come
about
after
the
publication
of
the
inspection
document.
We've
done
some
preliminary
work,
which
hopefully
will
have
been
recognized
by
the
dft.
We
did
that
work
locally
and
developed
a
set
of
criteria
that
had
a
lower
threshold,
but
we
took
a
collective
view
as
a
partnership
that
it
would
be
foolhardy
to
press
ahead
and
go
unilaterally
with
the
introduction
of
a
lower
threshold.
When
last
year's
inspection
document
was
saying,
chief
constables
should
stick
to
one
of
2007.
L
guidance
and
in
the
same
breath
they
were
encouraging
the
dft
to
take
a
look
at
it
at
a
national
level.
So
you
know
that
was
a
recommendation
to
our
chief
constable.
L
I
had
the
support
of
the
partnership
in
sticking
with
our
adherence
to
albe
the
old
guidance
and
then
he's
outdated
for
all
the
reasons
I've
touched
upon,
but
it's
very
much
an
operational
enforcement
decision
where
you
put
speed
cameras
and
I
think
we
have
to
be
led
primarily
by
what
the
national
guidance
is
telling
us
and
that
allows
us
to
retain
legitimacy
of
purpose
for
the
use
of
safety
cameras.
L
Whereas
if
it's
just
a
case
of
who
shouts
loudest
that
gets
a
camera
on
their
street,
I
think
you
start
to
undermine
the
the
the
whole
operation
using
speed
cameras
and
playing
to
the
hands
of
those
people
who
would
rather
see
them
all,
dug
up
and
being
a
free-for-all.
But
that's
my
personal
opinion.
Okay,.
A
M
L
Yeah,
yes,
speed,
camera
installation
costs
between
26
and
40
000
pounds,
depending
on
which
camera
type
we
use
and
the
location
the
power
supply
the
degree
of
roadworks
that
we
need,
but
that's
only
part
of
the
story,
because
what
you
have
to
factor
in
are
the
running
costs
in
the
back
office
operation
that
we
have
to
sustain
so
to
operate.
The
236
cameras
that
I
have.
L
I
have
staffing
resources,
which
amount
to
1.8
million
pounds
and
general
running
costs
annually
of
just
shy
of
900
000
pounds.
I've
done
some
comparative
work
and
the
back
office
function
that
we
operate
in
west
yorkshire
per
100
offences.
That
would
process
is
the
leanest
operation
nationally.
L
We
have
increased
the
offence
processing
by
in
excess
of
70
000
offenses
over
the
last
two
years,
with
an
increase
of
just
five
processing
officers.
So
please
don't
just
think
this
is
about
buying
a
bit
of
hardware
at
the
roadside.
There
are
recurrent
costs
and
people
costs
involved
and,
of
course,
for
every
violation
that
you
get.
There
are
a
number
of
options
on
how
that's
disposed
of
one
is
a
speed
awareness
course.
L
The
second
auction
would
be
a
conditional
offer
hundred
pound
fine
and
three
points,
or
indeed
a
court
appearance
and
again
my
team
prosecuting
court,
stand
up
in
front
of
the
bench
and
and
deliver
those
prosecutions,
so
there's
a
real
end-to-end
process
that
needs
financing
so
just
buying
a
camera.
J
Thank
you
chair.
I
just
want
to
say
really
that
you
know
we
do
take
this
very
seriously
and
we
are
you
know.
I
suppose
we
are
waiting
at
the
moment.
We
do
have
our
hands
slightly
tied
for
the
outcome
of
the
review,
we're
very
supportive
of
getting
additional
cameras
and
additional
sites.
Personally,
I
don't
sit
on
the
safety
camera
partnership,
so
I
I
haven't
had
a
say
in
this
at
so
far,
but
we
are
represented
by
nicholas
hunt
who
was
was
intending
to
be
here
today,
but
he's
unwell.
J
Unfortunately,
so
he
could
have
offered
a
bit
more
information
from
the
leads
perspective,
but
you
know
I
did
write
the
letter.
I
am
you
know
very
supportive
of
getting
getting
the
criteria
relaxed
so
that
we
can
get
additional
speed.
Camera
locations
in
leads.
A
F
Thank
you
this
my
last
point
for
the
moments
I'm
keen
to
hear
from
from
other
colleagues
on
the
board
as
well,
and
actually
I'm
just
gonna
ask
my
question,
which
I
haven't
had
an
answer
to
yet
do
all
three
points
on
for
a
new
fixed
camera
in
the
criteria
need
to
be
met
before
it's
installed.
L
A
J
Thank
you,
I'm
going
to
section
3.2.4
and
there's
in
the
last
paragraph
I
mentioned
of
school
streets,
so
my
question
is:
has
there
been
time
for
an
evaluation
of
that
strategy
yet
and
if
so,.
I
Counselor
and
just
let
you
know
that
we
are
carrying
out
evaluation
at
the
moment,
so
we've
got
14
sites
that
are
a
trial
and
they're.
They
have
been
installed
as
a
temporary
tro
for
18
months
and
so
part
of
that
evaluation
is
to
identify,
what's
worked
and
what
hasn't
worked
so
well
and
to
try
and
find
a
way
to
further
support
them.
I
So
I
think
it
would
be
wise
for
us
to
carry
out
that
evaluation
identify
sites
where
we
think
they
would
work
really
well
and
and
don't
require
that
high
level
enforcement
and
take
those
forward
now.
That
might
not
therefore,
meet
your
expectations
and
that
we
would
put
them
in
areas
where
there
needs
to
be
a
lot
of
enforcement.
So
it's
a
really
difficult
one.
They're
working
really
well
we're
getting
great
feedback
from
residents
and
and
from
schools
that
there
are
just
some
enforcement
issues
that
we
need
to
deal
with.
I
Now
there
are
some
things
that
could
help
us
along
the
way
with
that,
and
one
is.
There
is
a
review
of
the
moving
vehicle
enforcement
by
dft
at
the
moment,
and
that
could
really
help
us
with
that
issue.
So
at
the
moment
we're
carrying
out
the
evaluation
of
the
14
sites
and
we
won't
take
any
further
school
street
sites
forwards
until
we've
made
a
decision.
I
I
Yeah
we're
hoping
the
evaluation
which
has
been
carried
out
by
an
organization
called
living
streets
who
are
really
supportive
of
the
school
streets
movement
and
we
hope
to
have
that
by
round
about
december.
And
that
coincides
with
decision
making
that
we
need
to
make
about
the
tro,
whether
we
make
it
permanent
or
if
we
need
to
come
up
with
something
else.
A
Okay
thanks
very
much.
We
have
one
in
my
world
where
I'm
all
such
a
governor
and
it's
been
a
mixed
sort
of
response
from
local
residents
in
the
school,
but
yeah
we're
waiting
for
the
evaluation
before
we
move
on.
I've
just
got
one
question
under
section
three,
and
it
relates
to
3.2.1
the
west,
yorkshire,
police,
roads,
policing
unit,
and
I
just
noticed
the
second
paragraph
under
that
indicates
that
officers
undertook
enforcement
activity
across
west
yorkshire
in
respect
of
27,
000,
etc.
Offenders
compared
to
just
under
20
000
in
the
previous
12
months.
A
M
I
would
like
to
think
that,
with
a
tighter
focus
around
priorities-
and
as
I've
already
mentioned
in
this
discussion-
the
increased
national
focus
on
roads,
policing
enforcement
activity,
but
they're
taking
a
clear
steer
from
that
an
open
intended
there
aren't
any
additional
resources
in
that.
I
have
to
say
so.
Those
120
offices
have
been
in
place
for
some
time
now
with
no
additionality
to
that
does.
That
does.
A
That
address
all
your
points,
yeah,
I
think
he
does,
and
I've
just
got
one
question
which
perhaps
you
can
answer
after
the
meeting
in
in
in
correspondence
it's
a
breakdown
of
where
the
type
of
offence
and
where
it
took
place
to
the
location,
district
et
cetera,
not
wanting
to
know
every
street,
obviously,
but
just
to
get
a
feel
for
the
the
issues
that
have
been
addressed
and
where
that's
been.
F
Thanks
chair,
I'm
grateful
for
the
time
you
give
me
on
this,
but
it's
just
a
one,
quick
question
for
for
jillian,
which
I
don't
think
I
got
an
answer
to
earlier
and
it
it
that's
where
you
share
the
first
draft
of
the
criteria
mentioned
from
dft
with
us,
as
I
say
at
least
to
this
board
when
it
comes
before
christmas.
Please.
A
Yeah,
I
think
that's
when
it's
made
public,
rather
than
necessarily
when,
because
I
mean
paul
you've
been
involved
in
this
process,
haven't
you
so
yeah?
I
think
we
need
to
put
a
marker
down
that
we
would
like
to
to
see
that
back.
I
suspect
we
might
need
more
than
just
one
more
session
on
this,
these
issues,
but
I'm
in
the
hands
of
the
board.
Okay,
jonathan
bentley,.
C
Just
getting
back
to
safety
cameras-
and
it's
just
just
a
view
really
if
anyone's
got
it
from
the
police
or
the
or
poor
about
20
years
ago.
I
I
was
in
nottingham
and
average
speed.
C
Cameras
were
a
bit
of
a
novelty
then,
but
they
were
on
a
road
that
I
used
to
use
regularly
with
from
the
town
center
to
the
motorway,
the
ring
road,
and
it
did
have
a
huge
effect
on
on
speed
and
not
only
speed
but
on
congestion,
because
everyone
was
people
weren't,
rushing
from
you
know
one
bit
to
the
next
or
rushing
from
one
camera
to
the
next.
I
just
just
wanted
views
on
that
really
use
of
average
speed
cameras.
L
Yes,
as
the
enforcement
lead,
I'm
a
huge
fan
of
average
speed
cameras
and
we
are
actively
exploring
the
use
of
those
across
west
yorkshire,
one
of
the
sort
of
health
warnings,
if
you
like
that
that
goes
hand
in
hand
with
that
with
those
types
of
cameras,
is
the
risk
of
displacement
and
creating
rat
runs
where
people
can
circumvent
the
the
length
of
road
that
you've
installed.
The
average
speed
cameras
on,
but
absolutely
a
great
technological
asset.
C
Follow
up
and
thanks
for
that-
and
I
I
I
I
share
your
share
your
views
on
those
to
be
honest,
would
it
involve
any
other
legislation
or
any
other
criteria
if
you
use
those
rather
than
the
the
you
know,
the
cameras
that
we
use
now,
the
safety
cameras
you
know
is
just
a
question
of
changing
policy
on
getting
funding.
L
No,
once
the
criteria
is
in
place,
be
the
existing
one
or
the
refreshed
one.
It's
about
us
using
the
right
tools
for
the
right
scenario,
so
it
would
be
very
much
an
on-the-ground
decision
discussion
between
the
highways
engineers
that
identified
the
location
that
needs
safety,
camera
enforcement
and
the
discussion
with
ourselves
and
the
engineering
lead
to
ensure
that
we
get
the
right
solution,
be
it
mobile,
static,
average,
etc.
C
L
You
have
this
view
of
the
partnership
as
a
whole
yeah.
You
know.
We've
talked
about,
for
example,
the
former
gazoo
cameras,
which
were
wet
film
cameras
that
have
now
been
phased
out.
We
have
lengths
of
road
that
are
covered
by
multiple
gasoline
cameras
that
we
wouldn't
seek
to
replace
one
for
one
with
digital
cameras,
a
on
a
cost
basis,
but
b
there's
a
better
solution
in
the
introduction
of
an
average
speed
camera
on
that
length.
So
you
get
rid
of
five
cameras
and
just
have
two
so
you're
cutting
down
on
street
furniture.
L
You
get
a
better
effect.
You
know
you
don't
get
people
camera
surfing,
stepping
on
the
the
accelerator,
the
minute
they're
out
of
the
range
of
the
camera
or
if
they
do,
they
are
caught
so
yeah.
We
recognize
in
the
right
setting
the
benefits
of
using
average
speed,
alongside
the
other
solutions
that
are
available
to
us.
A
Yeah,
no,
no
thank
you
for
raising
that
jonathan
because
I
think
not
withstanding
any
of
the
negatives.
I
think
most
of
us
would
probably
be
fans
of
average
speed
cameras
for
just
the
reason
that
paul
mentioned.
You
know
the
speeding,
the
heavy
braking
the
rapid
acceleration
once
they've
got
past
the
the
camera
point.
A
Okay,
so
I
think
I
can
move
us
on
to
the
the
section
four
on
road
casualties
and
I
think
actually,
although
this
does
update
some
of
the
figures
and
present
them
in
a
slightly
different
way.
We
are
pretty
conversant
with
the
figures
and
it's
the
reason
why
we've
been
keen
to
all
this
inquiry
in
the
first
place,
that's
not
to
prevent
members
from
raising
any
questions
or
making
any
comments
on
this
section.
A
But
I
think
it
is
a
useful
starting
point
and
I
think
obviously
has
to
be
seen
in
the
context
that
lindsay
mentioned
much
earlier
on
so
agenda
item
five:
oh
enforcement
activity.
Now
talking
about
enforcement,
I
again
I'm
not
gonna
rule
out
any
questions,
but
I
think
we
have
during
the
discussion
on
the
previous
sections,
touched
upon.
Most
of
the
issues
that
certainly
arose
in
my
mind
on
this,
but
again,
if
members
have
got
any
comments
or
questions
to
make
on
this
section,
please
feel
free
to
do
so.
A
A
However
6.1
doesn't
so
I
don't
know
if
there
are
any
issues
that
anyone
wants
to
raise
in
that,
but
everything
after
that
six
point
two
onwards,
I
think,
falls
into
the
second
part
of
the
inquiry,
as
we've
laid
it
out.
Jonathan.
F
Thank
you
chair.
I
do
actually
just
quickly
want
to
move
to
6.7
and
just
ask
traffic
if
they
know,
if
I'm
right,
that
reviews
on
crossing
patrols
are
done
annually
and
how
many
current
vacancies
there
are
at
the
moment
across
leeds
thanks.
I
Hi
counselor,
my
understanding
is
that
the
reviews
are
done.
It's
not
an
annual
review,
it's
done
by
request.
So
if
a
school
would
like
to
have
a
review
carried
out,
then
it
would
be.
I
The
onus
is
almost
on
the
school
to
contact
the
cell
team.
It's
not
something
that
sits
within
highways
at
the
moment.
So
we
don't
have
a
lot
of
say
on
on
that
process,
and
it
is
something
that
I
would
like
to
address
as
part
of
vision,
zero.
I
think
there
are
some
gaps
there
and
I
don't
think
it
works
so
well,
because,
if
the
school
well,
if
the
criteria
isn't
made
they're
not
offered
any
additional
assistance,
and
that's
where
my
team
and
perhaps
highways
could
even
come
into
play.
I
So
I
I
don't
know
an
awful
lot
more
to
answer
your
question,
but
I
can
certainly
get
back
to
you
and
it
is
something
that
we
would
like
to
review
as
part
of
vision,
zero.
A
Yeah,
thank
you
for
flagging
that
up
jonathan
I'd
also
add
to
offices
and
becky
that
6.5
refers
fairly
modestly
to
annual
pedestrian
crossing
review.
I
think
this
is
another
issue
that
exercises
as
members
individually
as
well
as
members
of
the
board,
and
perhaps
we
need
a
little
bit
more
information
about
the
criteria.
We've
talked
about
criteria
for
speed
cameras,
but
in
terms
of
the
local
communities.
A
Probably
we
get
more
concern
about
the
criteria
applied
for
the
provision
of
crossings
than
we
do
for
speed
cameras.
So
perhaps
we
could
do
with
slightly
more
information
on
the
criteria.
There
is
some
brief
reference
to
some
of
the
sites
that
have
been
looked
at,
but
certainly,
I
think
that's
an
issue
that
the
board
members
would
want
to
to
look
at
okay,
so
I
think
again,
section
section:
seven
road
safety,
education
skills.
I
think
we
can
deal
with
in
our
next
meeting
as
well
as
engagement
and
consultation
at
eight.
A
B
To
include,
as
of
today,
seems
fine
to
me,
so
I'm
not
sat
here
thinking,
oh
you've
missed
a
big
part
in
x
or
y,
so
I
don't
think
I
would
suggest.
M
From
what
I've
heard
today
that
you
change
your
design
of
the
next
session,
and
I'm
not
sat
here.
B
M
A
Between
now
and
the
next
meeting
clearly
couldn't
share
emails
with
us
and
if
there
is
a
presentation
you
want
to
make,
obviously
we
can
embody
that
in
the
in
the
agenda
papers
right,
okay,
well,
thank
you
very
much,
everyone
for
your
attendance
and
contribution.
As
always,
it's
been
absolutely
invaluable
and
I
think
you
know
it
will
help
us
to
perhaps
formulate
some
recommendations
on
behalf
of
members
that
perhaps
help
to
move
this
agenda
forward
at
our
level
and
from
our
perspective.
So
thanks
very
much.
A
I
don't
know
how
many
of
you
are
going
to
be
attending
the
the
second
session,
but
you're
more
than
welcome
to
do
so.
We
would
really
really
value
your
input,
but
thanks
very
much
for
your
attendance,
okay,
and
that
takes
us
on
to
the
other
wonderful
elements
of
the
program
of
work.
Obviously,
this
is
a
bit
of
a
moving
feast,
because
things
will
come
to
us
by
way
of
referral.
There
may
be
other
things
that
that
arise.
A
I
think
we've
got
at
least
one
issue
from
our
previous
meeting
to
insert
somewhere
into
our
deliberations,
and
we've
also,
I
think,
got
to
to
think
about
how
we're
going
to
discuss
the
budget
as
we
move
forward,
obviously
adapting
the
same
sort
of
process
as
we
as
we've
had
last
year.
Becky,
you
look
as
though
you're
wanting
to
say
something.
I
It
was,
it
was
purely
to
flag
the
fact
that
I
know
at
the
previous
meeting
I'd
mentioned
an
earlier
budget
consultation
working
group
that
is
now
likely.