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From YouTube: Leeds City Council - Environment, Housing and Communities Scrutiny Board - 25 February 2021
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A
A
Hopefully
any
members
of
the
public
who
are
looking
in
today
find
the
agenda
varied,
but
also
enjoyable
in
terms
of
what
we've
got
before
you
today.
So
what
I
want
to
do,
first
of
all,
is
just
go
through
the
initial
items,
so
I'm
going
to
pass
over
to
natasha
who
will
go
through
the
first
few
items.
B
Okay,
so
under
agenda
item
number
one,
there
are
no
appeals
against
the
refusal
of
inspection
of
documents
under
agenda
item
number.
Two:
there
are
no
items
which
require
the
exclusion
of
the
press
in
public
under
agenda
item
three.
There
are
no
formal
late
items
to
do
under
agenda
item
number.
Four
police
can
ask
that
members
declare
any
disclosure
in
our
interests.
C
B
Yeah,
thank
you
I'll
note
that,
down
under
agenda
item
number,
five
apologies
for
absence
have
been
received
from
councilman
herron
and
we
have
councillor
dawson
her
substitute.
A
Right,
thank
you
right.
So
can
I
start
off
first
of
all
by
thanking
councillor
harland
who
has
got
promotion
and
she
will
be
missed
from
this
particular
board
because
of
the
experience
and
knowledge
that
she
brought
to
this
board,
but
I
do
wish
her
well.
It's
amazing
how
many
people
who
have
actually
sat
on
my
boards
have
actually
have
gone
on
to
be
exec
members.
So,
if
anybody's
ambitious
out
there,
you
stand
a
very
good
chance
of
ending
up
on
the
exec
board.
A
Can
I
also
thank
councillor
dawson
for
making
himself
available
at
short
notice,
because
we
didn't
know
officially
until
yesterday
afternoon,
that
council
mulhern
was
permanently
coming
onto
this
board,
but
council
dawson
stepped
in
at
the
last
minute.
I
asked
him
earlier
honest
whether
he
was
oppressed
man
or
whether
he
was
a
volunteer,
and
he
assumes
me
he's
a
volunteer
so
well
that
does.
A
Thank
you
chair.
It's
okay,
right
in
terms
of
the
minutes.
Anybody
get
any
points
they
would
like
to
make
about
the
minutes.
Anything
because
the
only
point
I've
got
to
make
is
that
under
minute,
78
the
scrutiny
board
made
some
recommendations
in
terms
of
the
budget
and
we
asked
for
information
to
be
provided
to
all
99
councillors
prior
to
the
budget
meeting
on
a
number
of
areas.
A
Unfortunately,
that
wasn't
met,
and
but
that
was
part
of
a
letter
that
was
sent
by
all
scrutiny
chairs
to
victoria
bradshaw,
setting
out
the
take
of
the
various
scrutiny
chairs
on
the
good
and
the
bad
things
that
happened
during
the
budget
process
this
year.
D
A
Right
and
so
before
we
go
in
what
we'll
do
now
is.
I
was
just
about
to
welcome
councillor
hayden,
who
isn't
actually
dealing
with
this
first
item,
but
cancer
hayden
has
been
given
promotion
as
well
she's
now
in
charge
of
well
just
about
everything.
I
think
you've
got
some
responsibility
for,
because
climate
change
and
transport
cross
over
our
life
in
many
ways
as
there's
planning.
A
So
can
I
welcome
councillor
hayden
to
this
her
first
meeting
in
her
capacity
as
the
executive
member,
although
she
has
attended
this
in
the
past
when
she's
come
along,
so
welcome
counselor
hayden
thank.
A
F
A
D
A
C
Sunny
good
morning,
council
alaska
account
for
birmingham
richmond
hill.
A
J
Yes,
good
morning,
everybody,
it's
nice
to
see
you
all,
I'm
councillor
deborah
cooper,
I'm
the
executive
board,
member
for
communities
and
deputy
leader,
and
I
think,
along
with
pouncer
pauling.
Graham
I've
been
on
on
this
board
in
a
number
of
farms.
I've
got
to
say
so
it's
still
good
to
be
here.
Yeah.
A
Yeah,
mr
evans,.
L
Good
morning
everybody
mark
island
and
private
sector
housing.
A
Thank
you
and
welcome
to
today's
meeting
I'll
introduce
some
other
guests
when
we
get
to
the
next
item.
So,
mr
ireland,
over
to
yourself
to
present
this
item
mark,
do
you
want
questions
throughout
or
do
you
want
people
to
retain
their
questions
until
the
end
of
the
presentation.
A
A
B
D
L
There
we
go
okay!
Thank
you
all
right
morning,
everybody.
What
I'm
gonna
do
is
just
run
through
a
presentation
that
covers
some
of
the
items
that
we've
put
in
the
paper
to
you.
I
don't
intend
to
go
through
the
paper,
but
just
cover
some
of
the
main
issues
that
we've
put
in
there
in
terms
of
the
private
rented
sector
in
the
cities,
we've
reported
a
number
of
times
it's
around
20
of
the
market.
It's
grown
significantly
over
the
last
10
years,
15
years.
L
L
I
have
to
say
that
most
of
the
markets
in
the
city
provide
good
quality
accommodation.
It's
high
value
doesn't
necessarily
come
across
our
desk
in
terms
of
people
having
issues
with
it
promise
qualities.
You'd
expect
is
in
the
inner
city,
where
we've
seen
the
biggest
increase
and
most
of
the
private
rented
sector,
or
the
majority
of
it
is
actually
still
within
the
pre-1919
stock.
L
In
terms
of
our
vision,
it's
a
bit
wordy.
We
are
talking
to
and
colleagues
in
communications,
to
try
and
get
this
a
bit
snappier,
but
basically
it's
to
support
landlords
and
owning
occupiers
to
have
good
quality
homes,
improving
the
outcomes
for
tenants
and
communities
and
targeting
those
landlords
who
failed
to
comply
with
their
duty,
as
well
as
targeting
proactively
empty
homes,
to
bring
them
back
into
use
as
part
of
their
the
affordable
homes.
For
those
in
need,
and
do
we
do
that
we
work
with
good
landlords.
L
One
of
the
ways
we
do,
that
is
via
the
leads
rental
standard
and
gavin
who
is
here
and
to
contribute
to
the
discussion
later
he's
actually
chair
of
that
board,
of
which
we
sit
on.
We
have
a
we
have
a
seat
on,
and
we've
signed
up
to,
the
leeds
rental
standard
council.
L
Coop
was
signed
on
behalf
of
the
council
a
few
years
ago,
and
it
is
one
of
the
I
think
it's
the
only
self
regulating
offer
from
a
city
to
the
sector
in
the
country,
but
gavin
may
be
able
to
confirm
that
we
target
landlords
who
fail
their
legal
obligation,
and
we
we
take
whatever
legal
action.
We
can
to
make
sure
that
they
do.
L
We
proactively
target
properties,
that's
on
an
individual
intelligence
basis
and
on
a
an
area
by
area
basis,
we're
currently
working
in
hallback,
which
is
described
later.
The
aim
is
there
is
to
cross
threshold
and
make
a
difference
to
people's
lives.
We've
implemented
selective
licensing
currently
in
beeston
and
hills.
We
obviously
will
come
consider
future
options
for
these
based
on
business
cases
and
supporting
the
local
agenda.
L
We
proactively
target
empty
homes,
which
I've
said
with
the
aim
of
bringing
them
back
into
use
to
support
the
housing
need,
and
we
actively
support
homelessness
prevention
working
with
colleagues
in
these
housing
options
to
find
people
good
quality
homes
within
the
sector
as
part
of
the
offer
that
we
make
people
in
the
city,
lee's
rental
standard.
As
I
said
earlier,
it's
self-regulation
of
the
sector
by
the
sector.
L
L
Sorry,
thank
you
and
say
self-regulation
of
the
sector
by
the
sector.
They
check
themselves
make
sure
they're
compliant.
The
only
time
we
get
involved
is
there's
any
disputes
where
they
can't
be
resolved,
and
we
will
then
go
straight
to
formal
action
if
appropriate,
there's
currently
around
483
members
of
that
scheme
and
they
rent
roughly
four
and
a
half
forty
and
a
half
thousand
bed
spaces
within
the
sector.
L
So
it's
quite
a
large
number
of
bed
spaces
that
are
currently
covered
by
that
we
obviously
have
a
reactive
offer
where
people
complain
to
us
and
we
will
go
out
and
deal
with
issues
that
arise.
We've
obviously
had
a
limited
ability
during
covert
we've
followed
the
government
guidelines
whereby
we've
tried
to
address
things
that
are
our
issues
remotely
without
visiting.
We
have
visited
where
we've
had
to
we've,
obviously
followed
government
guidance
and
and
safety.
We
have
our
own
risk
assessment
to
ensure
that
everybody
is
remain
safe.
L
We've
still
managed
to
do
over
a
thousand
inspections
of
one
sold
to
another
managed
to
serve
795
notices
and
with
benefit
as
a
result
of
our
intervention
around
1800
people
and
most
of
those
benefits.
I
will
say
as
a
result
of
action
pre-covered
rather
than
during
covered
as
a
result
of
the
timeline
from
us
being
involved.
L
It
is
less
than
what
we
normally
do
and
a
lot
of
what
we've
had
to
do.
We've
had
to
work
and
try
and
resolve
things
without
visiting
we'd,
probably
have
done
two
two
and
a
half
times
that
number
of
inspections
by
now
in
the
year
and
serve
consider
more
notices,
but
still
a
very
good
effort
given
where
we
are
with
the
pandemic
hmos.
L
We
still
have
around
3
000
hmos
that
are
licensed
at
any
one
time
in
the
city
this
time
next
year,
we'll
be
gearing
up
for
phase
four
of
hmo
licensing
within
about
a
three
four
month
period,
we'll
be
licensing
two
two
and
a
half
thousand
properties.
So
that's
a
massive
ask
for
us:
we're
continuing
to
proactively
target
poor
hmos
and
we
have
a
team.
L
As
we
said
last
time,
we
came
that
actually
looks
at
properties
that
have
been
overcrowded
over
developed
that
have
been
used
to
house
vulnerable
people
who
have
very
small
space
and
we've
served
an
awful
lot
of
prohibition
orders.
As
a
result,
we've
worked
with
others
on
space
standards
and
we
hope
to
publish
our
guidance
in
the
near
future.
We've
consulted
on
that.
L
We've
also
worked
with
people
like
lord
best
and
julia
parks
on
this
and
part
of
that
work
hopefully
will
result
in
from
april
all
permitted
developments
have
to
take
into
account
space
standards
moving
forward.
Currently
they
don't
planning,
are
also
consulting
currently
on
an
spd
on
space
and
we'll
await
the
outcome
of
that,
but
that
will
be
mainly
for
new
development,
not
existing
developments,
road
landlords
unit
in
the
last
12
months.
This
is
actually
starting
to
have,
in
my
opinion,
more
fruitful
benefits.
L
We've
started
to
develop
better
partnerships
with
the
police
and
others
to
actually
target
criminal
landlords.
We've
seconded
someone
into
the
service
who
has
a
background
in
human
trafficking,
modern
slavery,
who's
got
better
links
with
the
police,
so
we've
got
better
shared
intel
and
we're
improving
outcomes.
L
L
That
was
known
to
us
for
a
number
of
years
and
is
currently
going
under
investigation
for
human
trafficking,
where
they're
exploiting
vulnerable
people
not
just
for
work
but
also
for
financial
gain
and
we're
able
to
to
find
what
the
police
found
significant
numbers
of
bank
cards
and
other
other
things
to,
and
that's
currently
being
he's
currently
an
army
awaiting
trial.
L
Please
named
approach:
we've
continued
to
proactively
target
properties
in
the
air
again
limited,
because
I've
covered
we've
still
managed
to
do
180
inspections
within
whole
banks.
Since
march,
we've
returned
60
long
term
empties
working
with
leads
fed
on
the
bottom
end
of
holdback,
where
they
have
significant
numbers
of
properties
and
looking
at
how
we
can
improve
that
area.
L
Our
next
step
will
obviously
to
have
an
exit
plan
for
hallback,
so
we
can
move
staff
into
beaston
and
her
hills
and
continue
the
work
that
we've
been
doing
in
holbeck,
linked
to
selective
licensing
in
terms
of
selective
licensing.
It
was
designated
january
last
year.
So
far,
we've
crossed
both
areas.
We've
had
just
over
5
400
licenses
that
have
been
applied,
for
we
said
in
the
paper
that
85,
I
think,
have
had
paid
their
fee
by
december.
L
L
We
could
require
licensing
that
remain
unlicensed
and
it's
limited
to
what
we
were
able
to
do
because
of
covid,
because
a
lot
of
that
is
proactive,
but
we
have
managed
to
to
commence
52
formal
investigations
as
a
result
of
coming
across
properties
from
one
way
or
another
that
we
believe
are
being
let
without
licenses.
L
So
far
of
those
52
36
have
resulted
in
us
looking
at
issuing
or
have
issued
civil
penalty
notices.
The
remaining
ones
are
currently
under
investigation
with
a
view
to
determine
whether
we
have
the
public
and
evidential
tests
met,
and
if
they
do,
they
will
follow
the
same
path
and
we
currently
have
15
awaiting
further
investigation.
We're
aware
that
there
will
be
more
following
and
we
do
find
more
on
a
daily
basis,
and
we
continue
to
just
investigate
them
as
and
when
we
can
in
terms
of
homelessness
prevention.
L
We
work
with
colleagues
in
lho
these
housing
options
to
support
tenants
into
the
private
rented
sector.
We
support
landlords,
we
help
with
bonds.
We
provide
things
like
damaged
liabilities
and
we
provide
support
to
tenants
and
landlords
when
we
put
people
in
to
their
homes
on
we
have
an
ongoing
promotional
campaign,
we've
set
up
a
facebook
campaign
to
try
and
encourage
more
landlords
to
join
that
scheme
so
that
we
can
provide
more
homes
for
people
within
the
sector.
L
L
Finally,
empty
homes.
Empty
hands
are
part
of
the
core
planning
strategy.
We
we
said
in
march,
2012
we'd,
reduce
it
by
over
2
000
by
2000..
L
Currently,
we've
managed
to
reduce
it
by
over
2200
to
march
last
last
year
and
we
continually
maintained
it
below
that
target
that
we
set
within
the
core
planning
strategy.
What
we
have
seen
during
covert,
interestingly,
is
we've
seen
a
slight
increase
in
the
number
of
long-term
empties
in
the
city
centre
and
in
the
student
markets,
whereas
all
of
the
markets
appear
to
be
acting
as
the
same
as
previous
years.
So
that's
that's
my
presentation.
L
Cheerson.
I'm
happy
for
questions.
A
Right,
if
you
can
bring
out
if
you've
been
brilliant,
thank
you
right.
So
questions
anybody
like
to
open
the
batting.
I
know
that
council
bruin
has
a
question.
Do
you
want
to
go
first
council
groom.
I
I
Some
of
the
statistics
have
changed
a
lot
I
mean
I
was
really
surprised
about
the
beast
in
the
area
that
the
numbers
have
grown
almost
exponentially,
and
so
it's
very
important
the
kind
of
work
that
that
you
do.
But
my
question
is
this:
you
rightly
draw
out
that
the
poorest
conditions
are
to
be
found
in
those
inner
city
communities
where
there
is
most
deprivation
and
most
poverty,
and
so
being
aware
of
that
and
paying
attention
to
it.
I
Do
you
think,
in
your
professional
view,
that
you've
been
given
not
by
the
council
by
the
legislation,
sufficient
authority
and
powers
to
take
the
action
that
needs
to
be
taken?
I
If
not,
what
you
think
would
help
you
most
so
that
the
scrutiny
board
might
be
able
to
bat
on
your
behalf.
Thanks
mark
thank.
L
L
In
in
terms
of
legislation
available,
we
have
considerable
and
we
have
an
awful
lot
and
in
2016
the
housing
and
planning
act
gave
us
even
more
gave
us
the
ability
to
have
the
civil
penalties,
which
have
been
very
useful.
I
think
for
for
me
personally.
We've
got
an
awful
lot
of
legislation.
The
issue
for
me
really,
and
it
always
has
been,
is
we
don't
actually
know
where
the
sector
is?
L
There's
no
ability
to
know
where
which
property
is
privately
rented,
which
one
isn't
so,
which,
as
you
say,
we've
seen
a
massive
increase
in
certain
areas
of
the
city,
but
we
don't
actually
know
which
properties
rented,
which
properties
are
occupied,
so
there's
no
actual
means
to
go
and
undertake
whatever
action
we
need.
Unless
someone
comes
to
us
in
terms
of
the
legislation
we
specifically
have.
L
One
of
the
anomalies
in
the
housing
act
is
the
need
to
serve
notice
and
the
need
to
actually
have
to
go
in
before
action
had
fundamentally
changed
that
the
bits
and
pieces
have
changed
in
terms
of
selective
licensing.
In
terms
of
how
you
do
the
business
case,
one
of
the
things
we've
always
lobbied
for
as
a
council
is,
we
would
and
have
done,
welcome
if
we
would
license
the
sector
as
a
whole.
L
I'm
sure
gavin
would
not
agree
with
us,
but
we've
always
lobbied
that
if
you're
going
to
provide
someone
with
what
is
basically
their
home,
then
there
should
be
more
control
and
it
should
be
licensed
and
that
license
should
have
minimum
conditions
and
that's
been
the
position
of
the
authority
for
a
number
of
years.
I
think
it's
the
position
when,
as
you
say,
you
looked
after
us
and
remains
the
same
now.
I
Well,
thank
you
very
much
only
a
brief
comment
chair.
Perhaps
we
can
come
back
to
that
at
the
end,
when
you
summarize
what
actions
we
might
take.
B
Thank
you.
Chef
thanks,
mark
excellent
report.
A
lot
of
work
going
in
you
guys
are
clearly
really
really
busy,
which
is
good
and
bad.
B
Thank
you
for
all
the
work
that
you're
doing
looks
to
be
a
a
huge
challenge
which
is
clearly
being
hampered
over
the
past
12
months
with
with
the
covid
pandemic.
So
well
done
to
you
guys
for
carrying
on
so
I've
got
a
couple
of
quick
questions.
I
hope
so.
Are
there
any
plans
to
increase
the
selective
licensing
broader?
I
know
you've
said
that
about
looking
at
the
business
cases
etc.
B
But
I
didn't
know
whether
you
had
any
you
know
any
ideas
where
you
might
be
going
next
as
it
were,
and
the
other
question
really
is.
How
would
you
report
a
home
to
yourself,
especially
if
you're
a
tenant?
B
I've
got
a
particular
problem
at
the
moment
in
my
own
ward
and
I've
asked
the
tenant
to
contact
me
to
pass
the
details
on
because
they're
unable
to
find
any
way
to
contact
yourselves
and
didn't
even
know
that
you
existed,
if
I'm
honest,
so
that
will
be
winging
its
way
to
you
in
due
course.
I'm
sure,
but
just
a
couple
of
points
and
thank
you
again
welcome.
L
I
think
the
authority
has
never
said
it
won't
do
more.
Where
would
be
next
would
depend
on
for
others
to
determine
and
whether
or
not
we
could
base
and
in
order
to
do
additional
licensing,
be
it
hmo
or
selective.
You
require
to
have
meet
certain
criteria
that
are
laid
down
by
the
government,
so
you,
wherever
you
went,
you'd,
have
to
meet
that
criteria.
You'd
have
to
go
through
consultation,
and
it
would
have
to
be
the
most
appropriate
way
to
to
do
that
at
the
moment.
There's
no
areas
that
are
identified
as
next.
L
I
think
we
need
to.
We
have
been
delayed
with
covered
in
terms
of
beast
and
in
our
house,
but
not
where
we
would
have
ideally
been.
If
you
hadn't
had
the
pandemic,
we've
been
restricted
in
terms
of
how
to
get
into
the
office,
so
we
need
to
get
on
with
doing
those
two
areas
and
get
the
licensing's
issued
as
soon
as
we
possibly
can,
and
hopefully,
as
part
of
the
roadmap.
L
L
We
call
it
paper
projects
and
the
reason
we
call
it
paper
project
is
the
company
that
came
in
was
called
paper
and
they've
reviewed.
Some
aspects
of
our
service
we've
looked
at
us
externally,
and
one
of
the
things
that
they've
identified
is
that
we
need
a
better
customer
face.
People
need
to
be
able
to
contact
us
better.
We
need
to
have
a
better
profile
and
that's
some
of
the
discovery
that
they've
done
and
we're
currently
working.
We're
very
fortunate.
A
D
Thank
you
chair
and
thank
you
thank
you
mark
for
that
really
interesting
presentation.
So
the
you
mentioned
about
the
hmos
as
a
potential
area
for
the
empty
homes
program.
Possibly,
I
was
just
wondering
what
the
rules
are
around
that
and
also
oh,
yes,
the
493
new
tenancies.
I
just
wanted
to
mention
that
under
the
lls
scheme
yeah,
I
think
that
I
think
that
deserves
a
lot
of
recognition,
especially
after
you
know
like
the
year
that
we've
had
like
preventing
493
people
going
out
into
the
street.
L
Thank
you
and
I'll
pass
on
you
thanks.
If
you
don't
mind
colleagues
in
lho,
because
they
do
an
awful
lot
of
work
on
that
as
well
in
terms
of
hmos,
we
we
do
these
two
things,
one
we
have
mandatory
licensing
and
therefore
we
do
compliance
checks
on
that,
but
we
also
look
at
those
that
we
come
across
where
we've
either
proactively
find
or
have
complaints
around
that
are
overcrowded.
People
are
exploited,
they're
living
in
poor
conditions,
undersized
rooms.
L
People
are
using
certain
models
to
to
to
claim
more
from
the
public.
First
than
perhaps
the
standard
of
accommodation
justifies
all
the
type
of
accommodation
justifies.
So
we
have
a
proactive
team.
That
goes
and
does
that
and
as
a
result
of
that,
what
we
might
find
is
that
we
we
we
try
and
work
with
owners
to
so
they
will
can
reinvest
in
the
properties
they
can
reconfigure
it.
They
can
still
provide
good
quality
homes
for
people
but
they're.
They
need
to
to
look
at
what
they've
got
on
the
model
as
a
result.
L
What
it
can
do
is
it
can
mean
that
some
people
need
to
move
on,
but
there
is
legislation
whereby
we
have
to
it
takes
them
out
the
homelessness.
Specifically
legislation
says
we
need
to
support
them
to
find
new
homes,
so
we
will
use
that
to
do
that
at
the
moment,
what
we've
found
is
the
actual
loss
of
homes
is
minimal
and
landlords
have
tended
to
reconfigure
and
find
find,
find
ways
of
redeveloping
their
properties
to
make
sure
they're
providing
good
quality
accommodation.
Does
that
answer
your
question.
D
I
think
I
think
that
that's
very
interesting
and
thank
you
for
your
response,
but
I
was,
I
was
asking
specifically
about
htmls
that
might
be
empty
all
right
period
of
time.
Sorry,
sorry
if
I
weren't
clear
about
that,
and
so
it
so
what
sort
of
period
of
time
must
the
hmo
be
empty
for
before
it's
before
it
has
to
be
put
into
a
different
use
like
under
the
under
the
empty
home
scheme,.
L
L
L
We
will
encourage
the
owner
to
bring
it
back
in
we'll
work
in
partners
say
in
partnership
with
the
empty
homes
doctor,
but
ultimately,
the
far
end
of
that
is
compulsory
purchase
and,
if
need
be,
we
will
do.
We
will
then
look
at
how
we
bring
that
property
back
into
use.
Some
of
them
come
into
our
stock,
some
of
them
going
to
auction,
but
they're
going
to
auction,
with
the
caveat
of
you
have
x
number
of
months,
depending
on
what
it
is
to
bring
that
property
back
into
you.
So
we'll
take
it
back
off
you.
L
H
Yeah,
thank
you,
chair
mark.
Thank
you
for
that
response.
Just
now.
My
question
is
on
a
similar
issue
on
the
empty
homes.
H
I
know
that
I
mean,
I
think
it's
very
good
news
that
the
number
has
reduced
quite
dramatically,
but
there
are
still
three
and
a
half
thousand
empty
homes
at
the
end
of
march,
and
it's
in
no
one's
interest
to
have
a
house
it's
empty
and,
and
my
question
was
going
to
be-
and
I
think
you
might
have
just
partially
answered
it,
how
can
we
help
or
incentivize
landlords
to
let
their
properties?
H
I
mean
it's
in
their
interests
as
well
as
ours,
and
I
suppose
the
other
question
I
was
going
to
ask
is:
do
we
keep
a
record
of
how
long
homes
might
be
empty?
For
I
mean
you
mentioned
in
the
report
three
and
a
half
thousand
at
the
end
of
march,
but
are
those
have
they
been
empty
for
a
long
period
or
are
they
just
recently
coming
onto
the
market?.
L
In
terms
of
incentivizers
have
said
previously,
yes,
we
work
very
closely
to
say
the
empty
homes
doctor
and
they're
able
to
act
independently
of
us
they're
able
to
work
with
owners
directly
with
either
contractors
to
find
contractors
get
them
help
to
do
the
properties
up.
We
do
offer
two
loans
for
people.
We
offer
an
equity
release
loan
whereby
you
can
borrow
up
to
30
000
pounds,
and
you
pay
that
back
over.
Well,
you
have
five
years
to
pay
it
back
and
and
there's
interest
on
that.
L
We
also
have
a
smaller
five
thousand
pound
personal
loan,
where
you
can
borrow
five
thousand,
and
you
can
then
use
that,
for
whatever
reason,
decoration
white
goods
or
whatever,
to
to
allow
your
property
to
be
used
I'll
bring
it
back
into
sort
of
a
habitable
use
can
be
used
for
carpets
whatever.
Whatever
you
need
in
terms
of
incentivizers,
say:
empty
arms
dots
are
able
to
broker
deals
for
them.
They
can.
They
can
help
people
get
the
properties
to
auctions.
L
They
can
do
all
those
sort
of
things
we
can't
do
in
terms
of
records
of
empty
homes.
Yes,
we
do.
We
know
when
an
empty
home
was
first
became
empty
and
we
get
that
from
council
to
tax
there
is
we
get
that
on
a
monthly
basis,
so
we
keep
a
record
of
which
ones
are
empty?
It's
a
it's
a
churn
and
it
changes.
Yes,
there
are
some
that
go
on
to
one
two.
Three
years
they
tend
to
have.
L
What
what
we
have
there
is
about
just
under
one
percent
of
the
stock
is
long-term,
empty
and
very
little
sorry,
that's
someone
at
my
door
and
my
dog
announcing
it.
There
is
significant
numbers
that
have
been
reduced.
I
would
suspect
that
three
and
a
half
thousand
is
about
the
level
that
we're
going
to
get
it
to,
and
I
don't
think
we'll
get
it
too
much
lower
than
3
000.
We
never
have.
A
C
Thank
you,
chair
and
mark.
Can
I
also
say
thank
you
for
your
excellent
report
and
presentation
and
I'm
going
to
say
a
massive
thank
you
to
you
and
your
team.
You
know
for
responsive
when
we
when
inquiry
comes
from
our
residents
and
your
prompt
response,
you
know
and
your
assurance
does
help
the
residents,
and
thank
you
for
that.
C
My
question
is
partly
been
asked
by
council.
Dowsing
is
regarding
empty
properties.
We've
got
over
20
000
people
on
our
way
to
this
council
waiting
list,
and
it's
good
to
see
that
you
said
three
and
a
half
thousand
properties
being
reduced.
My
question
is:
do
we
have
any
breakdown
of
the
world
by
word?
Which
board
has
the
highest
entry
properties?
C
L
We
we
have
ward
by
ward
datas
and
when
we
monitor
it,
we've
had
the
data
since
2012,
so
we've
been
able
to
manage
and
monitor
trends.
We
do
get
it,
we
do
produce
it
in
data
per
ward
and
what
we've
seen
is.
There
has
been
a
slight
increase
over
the
last
12
months,
predominantly
due
to
code.
L
We
think,
and
what
we've
seen
is
the
biggest
increases
is
currently
in
the
city
centre
flats
and
that
type
of
accommodation
and
within
the
student
market,
so
the
biggest
rises
between
86
of
those
of
what's
increased
over
that
time
as
in
those
two
two
markets.
So
it's
hunslet,
riverside,
headingly
and
hyde
park
are
the
ones
everybo.
Every
other
ward
has
fluctuated
and
is
roughly
where
we'd
expect
it
to
be
based
on
what
we
know
from
the
trends
counselor.
A
K
I
was,
I
was
just
going
to
say
in
terms
of
the
council
dawson
inquiry.
One
of
the
other
factors
has
been
the
fact
that
we
charge
double
council
tax
if
they've
been
empty
for
more
than
two
years,
that's
something
which
is
now
allowed
by
government.
Not
all
councils
do
it,
but
we
do
and
obviously
that
kind
of
concentrates
minds
a
bit
as
well.
A
E
Thanks
chair
and
thanks
mark,
as
colleagues
have
said,
excellent
report
and
for
all
you
do
a
few
points,
some
of
which
we've
discussed
so
I'll
just
mention
very
briefly.
E
I'm
really
pleased
that
you're
doing
more
work
to
raise
your
profile,
because
I
I
think
if
I
can
use
the
word,
you
know
you
are
one
of
the
best
kept
secrets
in
the
housing
in
the
housing
community
and
it's
it's
a
great
pity
because
had
I
I've
been
on
this,
if
we're
talking
about
how
long
we've
been
on
the
board,
I've
been
on
this
board
since
I
was
a
councillor
eight
years
ago
and
had
I
not
been
and
not
had
a
special
interest
in
housing.
E
I
probably
wouldn't
have
known
you
of
your
existence
and
I
think,
there's
a
there's
a
feeling.
Well,
private,
rented,
that's
nothing
to
do
with
the
council.
E
You
know
it's
not
a
council
house
is
private
and
there's
nothing
that
we
can
do
about
it,
and
so
I'm
really
pleased
you're
sort
of
going
to
make
yourself
more
more
noticeable
to
to
everybody.
E
I
don't
know
if
there's
any.
This
is
probably
just
something
you
have
a
feel
for
rather
than
numbers,
and
it
might
be
an
unfair
question,
but
is
there
any
evidence
or
any
about
landlords,
moving
properties
to
areas
where
there
isn't
selective
licensing
or
when
they
buy
new
properties
or
invest
in
different
properties,
they're
doing
that
in
unlicensed
areas?
E
And
that
really
brings
me
on
to
the
third
point
about
I'm
a
firm
believer.
I
again
you
know
in
if
we're
going
to
have
a
licensing,
we
should
have
it
across
the
whole
city
which
have
across
the
whole
area,
and
whenever
I
mention
this,
a
lot
of
barriers
are
put
up
to
it.
You
know
having
to
have
the
consultation
and
the
business
case
and
everything
else.
E
E
I
wonder
how
much
lobbying,
if
any,
is
done
by
you
specifically
in
the
council
generally
to
try
to
change
that
legislation
or
get
people
to
understand
that
legislation.
E
I
I
know,
for
example,
in
nottingham,
where
I'll
declare
it's
not
really
declaring
an
interest,
but
I
do
have
a
property
in
nottingham
for
historic
reasons,
and
that
is
virtually
the
whole
of
the
city
has
got
selective
licensing,
including
the
parts
where
we
would
think.
Well,
you
don't
need
it
there
because
they're,
you
know
high
high
value
high
rent
flats,
but
they
they
they
still
have
licensing,
and
you
know
all
landlords
are
compelled
to
comply
with
the
the
regulations
and
pay
for
it
through
a
license.
E
It
might
be
something
that
mr
dick
wants
to
comment
about
as
well
when
he
when
he
speaks
thanks
so
much.
L
Your
first
question:
at
the
moment
there
doesn't
appear
to
be
a
shift
out
of
the
selective
licensing
areas
we
had
one
in
cross
screen
of
vastly
smaller
areas
than
what
we
we've
got
in
the
in
hills
and
beast,
and
we
didn't
see
a
movement
out
of
that
area.
What
we
did
see
was
a
movement
of
some
landlords
into
the
area
because
they
thought
that
it
was
going
to
be
up
and
coming
and
we
were
going
to
invest
in
it.
L
We
have
now
no
imperial
evidence
or
have
no
numbers
or
nothing.
That's
just
simply
a
feeling.
At
the
moment,
we've
not
seen
it,
but
unfortunately,
with
kobe
we've
not
been
out
and
about
so
we've
not
got
that
feel
that
we
would
normally
have
if
we
were
out
and
about.
But
it
is
something
that
we
were
conscious
of
when
we,
when
we
drew
the
business
case
together
that
there
is
always
that
potential
and
it's
something
we
will
try
and
monitor
and
see
if
it
does
have
an
impact.
L
L
For
us,
as
a
city
and
looking
at
the
areas
and
the
markets
and
what
we've
got
and
the
criteria
that
we
have
in
the
city
of
sorry,
the
criteria
we
have
for
licensing
or
addition
being
selective
or
additional
html
licensing,
we
would
struggle
to
make
a
business
case
that
would
stand
up
to
scrutiny
for
a
lot
of
the
areas
other
than
some
of
those
that
we're
already
looking
at
potentially
similar
areas
that
we've
you
know
described
in
in
the
report.
L
You
would
probably
struggle
to
get
selective
licensing
across
the
city
and
nottingham's
slightly
different.
I
know
david
and
nottingham
on
the
business
case.
The
areas
and
what
they've
been
able
to
do
is
different,
because
their
market's
different
and
what
I
understood
as
nottingham
turns
out
not
to
be
nottingham
city
council.
L
If
you
like,
a
lot
of
the
affluent
areas
or
the
better
quality
homes
are
actually
outside
of
nottingham
city
council's
boundary
and
therefore,
if
you
look
at
them
in
the
same
way
as
you
look
at
leeds,
they
couldn't
do
this.
They
they
couldn't
have
selective
licensing
across
the
same
sort
of
housing
stock.
L
If
you
looked
at
it
and
put
them
all
the
different
locations
together,
which
constitutes
similar
housing
stock
that
we
have
as
a
single
city,
so
I
think
we,
I
don't
think
we
could
make
a
case
for
extending
selective
licensing
to
cross
the
city
as
a
whole.
Unfortunately,
hence
we
we
do
lobby
government,
we
lobby
them
regularly.
We
are
very
fortunate
in
the
sense
that
we're
one
of
the
authorities
that
government
comes
to
when
we
had
the
2016
housing
and
planning
act.
L
They
came
and
we
contributed
an
awful
lot
to
the
guidance
and
we
were
part
of
working
groups
for
that
and
we've
continued
that
relationship,
and
it's
not
just
with
the
enforcement.
We've
also
got
it
in
relation
to
things
like
carbon
reduction
and
what
have
you
and
where
they've
just
consulted
and
we've
been
part
of
that
consultation
and
asked
to
comment
on
things.
So
we
have
a
very
good
relationship
with
government
and
we
do
lobby
them
all
the
time.
L
L
We
can't
we
will
have
and
continue
to
make
our
position
clear
as
a
local
authority,
that
our
view
is
that
the
sector
should
be
licensed,
should
have
minimum
standards
and
and
because
ultimately,
you're
providing
someone
with
a
a
home.
Not
everyone
will
agree
with
that,
and
not
every
other
local
authority
agrees
with
that.
But
that's
been
the
position
of
leads
in
the
when
we've
been
asked
for
our
opinion,
and
we
will
continue
to
lobby
for
that.
F
Yes,
yes,
I
do
I'd
like
to
thank
mark
for
his
report.
F
In
other
words,
in
other
words,
if
there's
lots
of
people
out
there
that,
as
you
say,
yes,
are
rather
crowded
but
they're
not
going
to
stand
much
chance
of
getting
the
council
house
for
some
time
because
they're,
just
not,
you
know
high
enough
priority,
but
there
doesn't
seem
to
be
at
least
a
person's
left
to
fight
just
to
find
where
these
private
landlords
are-
and
I
just
wondered
if
the
if
there
is
some
way
that
you
could
guide
me
on.
This
is
the
one
list
where
we
can
say
look.
F
L
There
is
limit
to
what
data
we
can
provide
in
the
public
domain
in
relation
to
empty
properties.
We
are
able
to
provide
anonymized
information,
so
we
can
say
how
many
is
per
ward.
The
numbers
things
like
that,
the
only
list
we
can
provide
that
gives
details
of
individual
properties
are
those
that
belong
to
companies
or
ourselves
or
housing
associations
which
we
we
have
been
putting
on
the
leads
data
mill.
What
we
can't
provide
is
a
list
of
properties
that
are
owned
by
individuals.
L
We've
we've
considered
it,
we've
looked
at
it,
but
due
to
ig
and
data
protection,
we're
not
able
to
provide
that
in
the
public
domain.
Unfortunately,.
F
Okay,
sorry,
a
lot
can
I
come
back
in
yeah.
Yes,
what
I
was
referring
to
is
is
houses
that
are
owned
by
private
landlords,
that
they
are
advertising.
F
But
how
do
you
do
that
and
how
do
we
know
that
the
private
lab
that
the
defined
is
one-
that's
that
has
a
suitable,
reputable
landlord.
L
In
simple
terms,
someone's
looking
for
a
house,
it's
a
it's
an
interaction
between
you
and
the
landlord,
and
we
could
know-
and
in
the
vast
majority
of
cases
we
won't
be
party
to
any
of
that
transaction
and
we
won't
know
anything
about
it.
What
we
do
do,
though,
is
where
we
talked
about
the
the
analysis
where
we
help
people
into
the
private
rented
sector.
Part
of
that
process
is
that
we
will
go
out
and
inspect
the
property
if
they
want
to
bond
from
us
or
they're.
M
What's
out
there,
council
we've
got
a
dedicated
team
within
lee's
housing
options
now
that
that
solely
works
on
linking
landlords
with
people
that
are
willing
to
take
private,
rented
accommodation,
we've
got
a
number
of
accredited
landlords
that
we
work
with
we'll
contact
those
on
behalf
of
the
customer
and
see
if
they've
got
available
properties
within
the
area
then
link
them
into
mark's
team.
So
it
can
carry
out
the
inspections
that
he's
just
referred
to.
M
We
also
recommend
that
people
just
use
some
of
the
websites
that
are
out
there
like
right
move,
for
example,
to
look
for
private,
rented
accommodation,
that's
available
in
the
area,
but
those
people
that
are
struggling
to
find
it.
We
we've
got
a
team
that
will
support
them
and
help
them
to
do
that
where
we
can.
Thank
you.
A
Right,
I'm
now
going
to
invite
mr
dick,
if
he's
any
observations
he
would
like
to
make,
and
I
know
that
mark
isn't
a
sensitive
soul.
So
if
you
want
to
criticize
them,
you
can
do
so.
N
Thank
you,
cancer.
I
wouldn't
dare
precise
mark.
I
just
think
I
don't
make
this
better.
No,
I
think
you
raised
quite
a
few
issues
and
I
think
just
to
comment
on
selective
licensing.
We
didn't
oppose
the
council's
selective
licensing
and
we
think
the
council,
albeit
with
covert
having
a
mass
authentication,
is
doing
the
right
approach,
which
is
targeting
an
area
to
actually
deliver
it.
N
What
I
have
seen
elsewhere
in
the
country
to
give
comparison
councils
have
gone
for
city-wide
schemes.
They
haven't
actually
put
the
resources
into
actually
targeting
where
the
problems
actually
are.
It's
more
just
grow
faster
straight
on
the
side
of
the
council.
N
To
put
it
in
perspective,
certain
councils,
I
would
say
in
london,
haven't
actually
inspected
all
those
properties
within
the
licensing
scheme
after
five
years.
So
there's
no
point
really
having
a
licensing
scheme
just
to
say,
you've
got
a
licensing
scheme.
You've
actually
got
to
do
the
work
and
deliver
against
it,
which
is
to
root
out
the
criminals,
the
poor
properties
and
actually
basically
make
the
private
sector
better
for
those
that
are
living
in
it.
I
think
that's
the
key
criteria.
N
You
need
to
put
against
selective
licensing
or
additional
licensing
or
even
mandatory
licensing,
it's
the
inspection
regime
that
you
put
in
place
and
what
you
do
with
those
that
have
got
poor
substandard
housing
and
how
you
remove
those
from
the
sector
and
actually
give
tenants
a
better
property
experience
of
that
term.
N
In
relation
to
again,
just
in
city-wide
schemes,
government
haven't
actually
approved
any
since
2015,
even
new
had
to
take
out
certain
parts,
and
there
is
the
exception
of
sorry
of
dagnam
and
redford
dagenham.
Sorry
rudbridge
didn't
get
theirs,
so
I
think
you've
got
to
look
at
it
now.
N
The
other
part
I'd
put
in
I
do
sit
on
a
panel
with
both
leads
liverpool
and
manchester,
and
I
do
think
you
need
to
do
a
comparison
to
show
actually
needs
is
actually
doing
reasonably
well
in
comparison
to
those
two
other
cities.
N
If
you
look
at
them
as
peers,
both
in
tackling
homelessness
and
in
actually
tackling
a
lot
of
the
issues
within
the
housing
sector,
you
genuinely
do
know
where
your
housing
situation
is
in
comparison
to
those
two
cities.
The
other
areas
I
just
want
to
highlight
is
the
challenges.
The
prs
has
got
going
forward
and
I
think
they
are
significant
and
will
cause
a
massive
challenge
not
just
to
leeds
but
across
the
whole
of
the
united
kingdom.
N
The
first
one
is
what
happens
of
course,
corvid.
Where
do
people
want
to
live
an
with
an
increase
in
homework?
N
People
are
looking
to
leave
city
centre
living
to
a
certain
extent,
they're
living
water
of
gardens
looking
more
to
have
basically
live
more
in
the
countryside.
We
have
noticed
that
there's
various
reports
floating
around
at
the
moment
already
london
has
seen
somewhere
between
eight
and
ten
percent
population
decrease.
N
There's
already
indication
in
the
student
market
within
leeds
that
people
aren't
looking
for
the
city
center,
looking
much
more
for
the
outer
parts
of
leeds
to
live
in.
The
second
part
of
that
would
then
be
what
happens
to
those
tenants
who
have
fallen
behind
on
rent,
have
built
up
debt
and
how
they're
going
to
get
out
of
that
whole
area.
N
As
some
of
you
will
seen,
we
believe
government
should
intervene
and
help
write
off
some
of
that
debt
so
that
people
aren't
carrying
debt
in
the
future,
because
that
will
go
against
them,
especially
with
the
rep
renter's
reform
bill
coming
through,
which
will
have
a
significant
impact
on
those
with
negative
credit
ratings
going
forward.
N
N
It
will
pose
a
significant
challenge
for
all
parts
of
the
united
kingdom,
specifically
around
pre-1919,
build
of
single
skin
you're
gonna
have
to
look
at
this,
the
certain
things
I've
always
been
advocating
for
I'll
repeat
again.
We
think
where
those
conservation
areas
planning
commissions
should
be
set.
So
people
going
to
pla
can
get
the
refurbishment
work
without
having
to
seek
new
planning
applications
for
predetermined
planning.
N
What
is
acceptable
in
those
areas
needs
to
be
approved
first,
so
that
landlords
and
home
owners
can
take
full
for
full
use
of
things
that
your
green
homes
grant,
because
currently
you
can
only
apply
within
12
weeks
a
planning
application
takes
success
of
12
weeks,
so
there's
quite
a
bit
of
work
that
can
be
done
to
support
both
the
private
rent
sector
and
homeowners
to
hit
that
target,
because
that
will
be
a
significant
game
changer
for
a
lot
of
the
housing
stock,
not
just
the
needs,
but
across
the
whole,
united
kingdom.
A
J
Yeah
thanks
chair
and
and
thanks
to
mark-
and
I
have
to
say
his
various
teams-
he
doesn't
just
have
one
team
working
with
him.
Actually
he's
got
quite
a
number
of
teams.
These
days,
we've
certainly
grown
that
that
part
of
housing
capacity,
I've
got
to
say
within
the
council
over
over
the
recent
years
and
and
through
mark's
presentation.
You
will
understand
why
that's
needed
because
of
the
private
rented
market
has
overtaken
the
the
amount
of
housing
in
the
city.
J
That's
delivered
through
the
private
rented
market
now
has
overtaken
the
council's
own
number
of
housing
stock
as
well.
So,
of
course,
we
need
lots
of
different
networks
and
partnerships
and
and
ways
of
that
we
can
work
with
that
sector
to
enable
that
we
get
good
quality
housing
throughout
the
whole
of
that
sector.
J
So
and
max
outlined
a
number
of
ways
that
we're
doing
that
and
a
couple
of
scrutiny
members
picked
up
on
a
few
points
around
selective
licensing.
Hopefully
that's
been
answered
as
to
why
the
areas
were
chosen
that
we
have
got
selective
licensing
in,
but
it
that's
not.
You
know
the
end
of
the
matter
with
selective
licensing.
As
far
as
we're
concerned,
we
want
to
do
more
and
we
will,
you
know,
continue
to
try
and
do
that.
J
But,
as
mark
said,
we
need
to
have
the
right
business
case
for
those
areas
to
enable
the
any
application
for
selective
licensing
is
successful.
But
we
do
continue
to
lobby
ministers
on
this
issue
about
selective
licensing
continually.
J
I
have
to
say
some
of
the
scrutiny
board
members
comments
that
that
they
didn't
know
the
existence.
I
found
quite
surprising.
J
I've
got
to
say
and-
and
I
do
think
to
myself-
you
know
that
if
you
actually
read
some
of
the
executive
board
reports
that
I've
taken
to
executive
board,
if
occasionally
you
might
listen
to
me
in
council
when
I'm
speaking,
because
you
know
I'm
always
talking
about
housing
and
the
various
elements
of
housing
within
the
city,
including
the
private
rented
sector,
and
indeed
I
think
I
won
sport
for
around
20
minutes
on
all
the
various
elements
of
housing
in
council.
J
So
I'm
very
surprised
that
elected
members
have
not
heard
of
it
before
and
also
I
send
out
emails
on
a
regular
basis
with
updates
when
there
are
any
changes
and
the
most
recent
would
have
been
around
the
selective
licensing,
how
we
paused
it.
There
are
also
updates
that
go
out
on
the
weekly
briefing
from
the
covered
report
from
the
leader
and
mariana.
J
So
can
I
just
suggest
that
elected
members
maybe
read
some
of
the
papers
and
you
might
find
the
useful
information
in
and
the
also
the
information
about
the
good
work
that
we're
doing
as
well
so-
and
I
think
and
I'd
just
like
to
finish
really
with
saying
that.
Thank
you
to
gavin,
for
his
is
positive
comments
about
what
we're
doing
in
leeds
and-
and
I
know
that
we've
met
gavin
gavin's
part
of
the
the
networks
that
we
engage
with
around
private
rented
sector
in
the
city.
J
J
You
know
so
where
we
discuss
lots
of
different
areas
of
housing,
including
the
private
rented
sector,
so
maybe
a
suggestion
councillor
anderson
might
be
that
you
might
want
to
take
an
update
of
the
work
from
the
strategic
housing
board
when
we
get
up
and
running
again
after
corvaid
to
scrutiny
in
the
future.
J
I
know
we're
coming
to
the
end
of
the
scrutiny
municipal
year,
but
it
might
be
a
thought
for
you
know
using
your
time
further
in
the
next
year.
Maybe,
although
I
do
know
that
time
is
very
precious
for
the
for
the
scrutiny
board
and-
and
you
do
have
many
other
things
that
you
need
to
look
at
too,
but
can
I
just
thank
mark
and
his
various
teams,
all
the
staff
that
he
works
with
to
ensure
that
we've
got
the
best
possible
quality
housing
under
the
private
rented
sector
in
the
city?
A
Thank
you
so
to
to
try
and
sum
up
this
I
mean
mark.
Joking
aside,
I
mean
I've
known
mark
for
a
while
mark
runs
an
excellent
team
and
he's
got
a
lot
of
good
people
underneath
him
and
actually
recently
he's
lost
one
or
two
people
who
have
been
vital
to
the
service
in
the
past
and,
as
a
result
of
that
mark
has
had
to
take
up
the
baton
and
get
you
know
more
and
more
involved
as
as
the
rest
of
his
team
to
get
things
going.
A
I
think
we,
those
are,
I
mean,
I'm
someone
who
is
immersed
in
housing,
and
this
is
an
exemplar
department.
This
is
one
that
is
very
customer
face-facing.
They
are
helpful
to
elected
members
when
you
ask
them
for
help.
They
are
hard
on
some
of
the
landlords
that
do
cause
problems
in
this
city
and
they
don't
shirk
from
taking
some
of
that
action.
So
we
can
be
reassured
in
that
respect.
A
What
is
interesting
we
need
to
look
at
in
the
future
is
what
is
the
role
of
private
housing
in
meeting
the
housing
needs
of
the
city
later
on?
I
know
from
a
conversation
I
had
with
gerald
tinsdale
that
that's
one
of
the
areas
he
highlighted
to
me
in
a
briefing
he
gave
me
when
he
was
outlining
his
strategy
for
housing
in
the
city
is
the
role
that
the
private
rented
sector
will
have
in
meeting
housing
needs,
and
I
think
that's
been
brought
out
by
a
number
of
members
today.
A
We
also
need
to
look
at
where
next
in
the
city,
where
next
is
selective
licensing
potentially
going
to
go,
so
I
think
that's
something
as
a
successor
scrutiny
board
may
wish
to
look
into
there's
also
the
issue
of
resourcing
one
resourcing
of
mark
and
his
team,
but
also
resourcing
in
terms
of
what
is
available
to
landlords,
to
help
them
upgrade
their
premises
and
bring
them
up.
You
know
in
terms
of
grants
or
loans
or
whatever
financial
mechanisms.
It's
another
area.
A
We
also
need
to
look
at
the
effectiveness
of
the
legislation
and
what
more
we
could
do
to
try,
and
maybe
the
scrutiny
board
too
effectively.
If
we're
not
happy
with
something
to
come
up
with
a
joint
letter
along
with
councillor
cooper,
that
we
could
write
down
to
the
minister
expressing
views
and
concerns
because
that
well,
I
certainly
do
believe
that
that
adds
weight
when
a
scrutiny
function
can
look
at
things
dispassionately
and
come
up
with
views.
A
There's
also
going
to
be
a
lot
of
work
because,
once
on
homelessness,
once
the
day
we
come
out
of
the
post
pandemic
area,
what
is
the
government
going
to
do
with
homelessness?
They
have
put
a
lot
of
money
into
it.
The
council
have
done
a
fantastic
job
in
terms
of
the
number
of
people
who
are
currently
homeless
in
the
city,
but
when
we
get
back
to
norm
whatever
norm,
actually
means
is
there
going
to
be
the
same
priority
on
it
nationally
and
as
such?
How
are
we
going
to
deal
with
it?
A
I
think
that's
something
we
need
to
look
at
as
a
board
and
also,
I
think
we
need
to
do,
keep
an
eye
on
the
breakdown
of
empty
properties
throughout
the
city
and
where
issues
may
be
occurring
and
what
more
could
be
done
to
stimulate
markets
there
and
probably
the
last
two
things
one
councillor
cooper
brought
up
was
getting
an
update
on
the
strategic
housing
board
and
what
it
is
doing
and
what
recommendations
it's
made,
but
probably,
most
importantly,
well
the
comments
made
by
mr
dick
in
terms
of
the
forthcoming
challenges
the
sector
is
going
to
have
to
face
up
to
in
the
post-covered
world
as
to
how
it's
going
to
affect,
and
it
was
quite
interesting
when
we
were
talking
about
the
student
accommodation,
because
we've
had
a
lot
of
purpose-built
student
accommodation
in
the
city,
which
means
that
the
basic
laws
of
supply
and
demand
would
mean
that
some
of
the
housing
that
we
do
have
at
the
moment
set
aside
for
student
accommodation.
A
Is
that
going
to
be
needed
if
it
isn't
going
to
be
needed?
What
is
it
going
to
be
used
for?
What
are
the
landlord's
views
going
to
be?
If
they
suddenly
are
invited
to
start
to
take
standard
housing
tenants
as
opposed
to
students,
because
my
understanding
is
a
lot
of
the
student
accommodation
is
of
very
high
quality,
because
students
just
will
not
take
low
standard
housing,
and
so
there
are
some
good
houses
out
there
if
the
landlords
can
be
persuaded
to
put
them
on
the
market
for
to
meet
some
of
our
housing
needs.
A
A
Okay,
councillor
gabriel.
D
Hi
one
of
the
things
that
I
think
we
should
do,
we
were
talking
with
mark
allen
and
can
I
say
how
wonderful
mark
island's
team
is,
and
I've
known
and
I've
been
on
this
board
since
it
started,
and
I've
worked
with
my
island
for
years
and
lovely
team.
D
A
Yeah,
no,
no,
I
think
that's,
I
think,
that's
a
valid
point,
because,
certainly
as
long
as
I've
been
involved
in
the
housing,
we've
never
ever
really
known
as
a
city
where
all
of
the
private
rented
properties
are
in
turn
and
who
is
a
landlord,
because
some
people
might
not
even
clash
themselves
a
landlord
they've
acquired
a
house
and
they
don't
always
necessarily
see
themselves
as
landlords
and
also
the
agents
that
are
connected
to
the
private
rented
sector,
as
well
as
to
working
with
them
to
try
and
improve
things
overall.
A
So
anyway,
I
think
we've
had
a
good
debate
on
that.
You
know
mark,
please
give
your
thanks
to
your
team
for
the
quality
of
work
and
the
types
of
individuals
that
they
are
in
terms
of
putting
up
with
the
vagueries
of
90,
odd
counselors,
who
have
different
needs
in
their
particular
areas.
So
thank
you
very
much
mark
and
to
gerard
and
neil
and
council
cooper
for
the
good
work
that
has
been
done
in
this
sector.
A
Thank
you.
Thank
you
with
that
said,
and
also
thank
you
to
mr
dick
for
taking
the
time
to
come
along
today
to
give
us
that,
because,
when
I
was
getting
in
the
discussions
I
was
having,
I
did
feel
it
was
important
to
get
an
outside
view
of
leeds,
because
we
can
be
great
at
looking
and
saying
how
good
we
are.
But
it's
nice
to
hear
someone
from
outside,
pointing
out
that,
in
peer
terms,
we
do
compare
favorably,
not
necessarily
the
best,
but
that
we
compare
favorably.
A
So
there
are
lessons
to
be
learned,
but
thank
you
very
much,
mr
dick,
for
making
the
time
to
come
along
today.
So
if
I
can
now
move
on
to
item
eight,
and
can
I
ask
certain
people
to
formally
introduce
themselves
first
of
all
councillor
hayden
who
took
over
responsibility
yesterday
at
council
so
councillor
hayden?
Would
you
like
to
introduce
yourself
please.
D
Oh
good
morning,
yeah
good
morning,
everybody
thank
you
chair.
Yes,
my
name
is
helen
hayden
and
I'm
counsellor
one
of
the
counsellors
for
temple
newsome
alongside
my
wonderful
colleague,
councillor
cooper
and
councillor
sharp,
and
yes,
as
of
yesterday,
I've
taken
over
the
exec
board
role
of
from
councillor
mulherin
of
climate
change,
transport
and
sustainable
development.
So
yeah
it's
exciting
a
bit
daunting
but
exciting.
So
thank
you
very
much
for
inviting
me
here
today
and
I'll
pass
I'll
pass
over
to
my
colleagues.
Thank
you.
A
Okay,
council,
warsaw,
can
you
introduce
yourself
please.
O
K
Yeah
neil
evans,
dire
resource
in
housing,
and
I
see
polly
cook's
team
that
does
much
of
the
work
on
climate
change
and.
P
Hi
so
I'm
polly
chief
officer
for
sustainable
energy
and
air
quality,
okay.
A
Right,
so
we
as
councillors,
we
got
a
report
taken
to
full
council,
the
last
council
meeting
before
the
budget,
one
where
we
had
an
opportunity
to
debate,
but
this
was
always
on
the
agenda
that
we
would
get
a
report
back
to
scrutiny
so
that
scrutiny
can
run
an
eye
over
it.
When
we
first
started
the
year,
we
had
a
number
of
conversations
when
times
the
wall
shaw
and
chris
wilhelm
at
the
time
took
over
and
we
had
a
general
debate.
A
A
P
P
P
So
if
I
start
with
the
c
oxide,
so
in
terms
of
what
we've
delivered
over
the
last
year
and
we've
increased
public
engagement,
it's
given
a
real
opportunity
to
bring
the
general
public
in
and
see
what
works
going
on,
but
also
to
take
more
of
a
whole
city
approach
and
to
invite
businesses,
community
events,
community
groups
and
also
you
know,
even
to
the
extent
that
we've
had
individuals
who've
come
up
with
amazing
ideas.
We've
got
a
resident
in
boston.
P
Spa
he's
come
up
with
an
idea
that
could
just
wipe
sort
of
carbon
out
of
the
whole
of
the
country
and
we've
had
the
opportunity
to
bring
that
to
the
forefront
and
try
and
help
him
get
that
idea
to
be
taken
seriously,
and
we've
also
had
the
opportunity
to
again
to
attract
greater
media
attention,
which
is
really
important
on
this
agenda
because,
as
we
always
said
when
we
declared
the
climate
emergency,
it's
not
about
what
the
council
can
do.
It's
about
how
we
get
everybody
on
board
and
bring
everyone
along.
P
So,
even
within
the
last
probably
month,
we've
heard
from
people
on
soil
management
and
soil
is
a
carbon
store
and
we've
heard
about
vast
vertical
farming
and
how
that
can
help
within
the
city
in
terms
of
green
skills
and
and
then
we've
made
sure
through
that
group.
The
climate
emergency
remains
a
key
priority.
P
It
must
be
coming
up
to
sort
of
40
45
million
pounds
for
the
city
to
deliver
this
year
in
terms
of
retrofitting
on
housing
and
our
own
public
sector
estate,
and
that's
only
been
done
through
the
commitment
that's
been
shown
by
the
council
and
the
team.
That's
been
in
place
which
isn't
repeated
in
a
lot
of
other
councils.
P
We've
had
open
forum
where
people
have
been
asked
to
come
in
and
express
their
views
on
a
number
of
issues,
and
it's
really
helpful
to
stay
in
touch
with
what
the
general
public
are
thinking
and
where
they
feel
I've
got
a
child
asking
you
what
he's
having
for
lunch,
believe
it
or
not.
P
So
anyway,
that
wasn't
slightest
bit
distracting.
I
just
yeah
and
then
we've
also
had
kind
of
great
youth
engagement
and
we've
heard
from
young
people
in
schools
we
actually
launched.
P
We've
launched
our
leads
by
example
website
over
the
last
year
and
just
within
the
last
week
we
launched
the
youth
page,
and
we
heard
we
have
the
opportunity
to
see
how
how
that's
being
received
and-
and
it
just
gives,
that
that
focus
and
that
outward
looking
place
so
that
I
think,
is
a
a
kind
of
summary
of
seac
and
what
we've
achieved
and
I
think
the
positivity
it
brings
to
the
whole
climate
change
agenda
and
then
council
ransom.
P
P
P
Right
so,
okay,
we'll
just
go
through
the
questions.
Hopefully
everyone
can
see
that
so
the
first
question
was:
how
well
does
the
council
understand
the
need
to
take
action
locally?
P
P
And
it's
an
interesting
one,
because
I
think
our
focus,
if
we're
honest,
is
always
about
you
know
the
sort
of
action
against
climate
change
rather
than
necessarily
adaptation.
So
adaptation
is
really
a
real
focus
on
flood.
But
then,
if
we
think
about
the
city,
that
is
probably
the
key
climate
risk
to
us
as
a
city,
so
that
is
probably
the
right
focus
and
and,
as
you
know,
there's
been
a
lot
of
work
done
on
flood
alleviation.
P
There's
been
a
lot
of
capital
invested
in
it
and
in
terms
of
the
plans
we
report
annually
to
the
executive
board
and
that
report
was
attached
and
we
also
work
with
the
leeds
climate
commission
who
help
us
in
terms
of
looking
at
our
road
map
and
looking
at
how
how
we're
whether
we're
on
track,
what
actions
we
need
to
take,
what
needs
to
be
prioritized,
and
so
I
think
that
that
is
there.
I
think
the
climate
change.
If
mr
adaptation
is
there
but
more
on
the
flood
side.
P
Fourth
question
is
about
the
council:
reviewing
its
investment
strategies,
supply
chains
and
procurement
models
and
in
terms
of
the
procurement
side,
I
think
there's
a
lot.
That's
been
done.
It's
in
the
guidance
there's
more
being
done
in
terms
of
the
social
value
guidance,
that's
currently
being
issued
and
there's
also
some
work
happening
at
a
west
yorkshire
level
to
to
look
at
more
kind
of
embedded
carbon.
P
So
carbon,
that's
in
materials,
and
so
we
will
also
benefit
from
that
and
the
highways
function
is
already
starting
to
look
at
that
when
they're
doing
their
big
schemes
and
getting
and
starting
to
get
that
measured-
and
it's
probably
not
something-
that's
particularly
well
established
nationally.
So
we're
kind
of
working
with
people
to
help
help
that
be
brought
along,
and
how
is
the
council
integrating
sustainability
and
resilience
in
its
transport
and
energy
plan,
so
the
transport
strategy?
I
think
carbon
is
absolutely
at
the
heart
of
it.
P
It's
out
for
consultation
at
the
moment
and
went
to
exec
board
at
the
end
of
last
year
and
in
terms
of
energy
plan.
We
don't
have
a
written
energy
plan
as
such,
but
we
do
have
the
large-scale
district
heating
scheme
that
we
report
at
the
executive
board
and
and
then,
as
I
mentioned
earlier,
we've
secured
a
significant
amount
of
funding,
so
we'll
be
installing
solar
panels
and
decarbonizing
heat
through
air
source
heat
pumps
at
a
lot
of
our
properties
and-
and
we've
made
the
commitment
about
the
decarbonisation
of
the
council
itself
by
2025..
P
How
is
the
council
planning
to
adapt
existing
properties
in
the
states?
And
this
again
is
more
about
the
resilience
to
you
know
the
impacts
of
climate
change
and
our
focus
has
been
more
on
retrofitting
and
making
them
more
carbon
efficient
and
but
again,
really.
The
key
thing
at
this
moment
in
time
is
really
around
the
flood
alleviation.
P
There
is
work
going
on
at
a
hopefully
everyone's
seen
about
the
launch
of
the
yorkshire
and
humber
climate
commission,
and
one
of
the
key
strands
that
they
will
pick
up
is
actually
the
resilient
side
and
that
will
start
to
look
at
things
like
urban
heating
effects,
resilience
resilience
of
infrastructure,
but
the
flooding
is
probably
the
one
that's
kind
of
the
most
sort
of
the
nearest
risk
for
us.
So
it's
right.
P
And
so
I
think,
there's
been
quite
a
lot
done
on
communication
engagement,
I'd
say
last
year
that
probably
came
away
a
bit
because
covert
was
obviously
sort
of
front
and
center
of
all
comms
that
the
council
did.
And,
however,
despite
that,
we
still
did
a
significant
number
of
press
releases,
things
across
our
social
media
and
we've
established
our
website.
I
mentioned
about
the
youth
guidance
and
that's
got
lots
of
educational
links.
P
We've
also
joined
with
a
national
campaign
or
sorry
I
actually
should've
said
international
campaign,
which
is
counters
in
and
there's
a
number
of
linked
activities
with
that
and
we're
also
planning
a
programme
of
climate
literacy
training
for
internal
stuff.
P
It
should
have
happened
last
year,
but
was
delayed
because
of
covert,
and
then
the
at
the
yorkshire
and
humber
level
we're
looking
at
setting
up
a
green
skills
group
and
which
will
focus
on
the
work
that's
being
done
on
just
transition,
but
look
to
start
to
turn
that
into
more
of
a
practical
action
plan,
and
we
will
very
be
much
part
of
supporting
that
and-
and
we
always
look
at
the
job
side
of
any
of
the
things
that
we
do
so
in
terms
of
the
the
recent
funding
we've
won.
P
P
I'm
not
sure
that
we
specifically
done
anything
on
that
and
I
also
think
it
would.
You
know
maybe
a
little
bit
premature
at
the
moment
as
well.
In
terms
of
you
know
the
extent
it
would
probably
be
no
different
to
the
cold
weather
response
that
we
take
and
you
know,
but
it
might
be
a
hot
weather
response
if
you
were
getting
into
hotter
temperatures,
and
so
I'm
not
so
sure
that
there
is
a
massive
amount
to
do
on
that
at
the
moment.
P
But
maybe
when
we
start
doing
the
resilience
work
with
yorkshire
and
humber,
we
might
change
my
view
and
and
then
he
asked
about
those
who
are
most
at
risk
and
what's
being
done
to
assist
the
most
vulnerable.
So
there's
a
vulnerability
index,
that's
been
created
by
the
university
of
leeds
and
by
paula,
sakai,
and
actually
she
presented
it
really
recently
to
the
food
and
biodiversity
working
group
and
also
the
wider
seat
committee
were
invited
to
come
and
look
at
that.
And
although
that's
not
an
index,
that's
specifically
about
individuals.
P
It's
about
areas
and
in
a
way,
I
think,
that's,
maybe
more
important
at
the
moment.
From
a
council
point
of
view,
and
because
actually
the
council
needs
to
be
aware
which
areas
are
more
at
risk
and
then
be
able
to
work
with
those
areas
in
a
strategic
way
rather
than
individuals.
Because
at
the
moment
I
don't
think
there
is
such
a
risk
at
an
individual
level.
And
it's
more
about
how
we
put
the
plans
in
place
at
that
kind
of
local
level.
P
It
you
know
set
up
to
bring
together
all
the
different
actors
from
around
the
city
and
private,
public
and
third
sector
and
and
then
the
regional
climate
commission
will
also
add
to
that,
and
you
know-
and
there
have
been
things
such
as
business
breakfast
anchor
institute
meetings
and
things
so
that
there
is
work
going
on
in
that
we
supported
the
child.
Friendly,
leads
business
ambassadors
event
recently.
P
A
You
very
much
thank
you
so
right
so
who
would
like
to
go
first
in
terms
of
asking
questions
on
what
we've
had
presented
to
us
just
now,
anybody
wanting
to
lead
off
on
anything.
I
can't
see
any
hands
any
yellow
hands
or
blue
hands
going
up.
I
can't
see
anyone
give
me
any
signals
that
mean
that
they
want
to
speak.
E
Sorry,
joe,
I
don't
know
what
happened
there.
I
kept
pressing
the
button
and
nothing
happened,
just
a
very
quick
question
really
to
to
polly
a
couple
of
years
ago,
and
a
number
of
members
may
remember
this.
E
There
was
a
lot
of
talk
about
the
move
to
hydrogen
replacing
methane
natural
gas
with
hydrogen
and
northern
gas
networks
came
and
did
a
number
of
presentations
telling
us
how
they
were
making
the
city
ready
for
hydrogen
by
replacing
all
the
or
all
the
old
pipes
and
putting
in
plastic,
plastic
piping,
etc,
and
and
how
leads
could
be
sort
of
a
ring
fenced
as
a
use
of
hydrogen.
E
There's
still
a
lot
to
talk
about
hydrogen,
but
that
particular
issue
about
northern
gas
networks.
Proposals
which
was
converting
natural
gas
to
hydrogen
and
then
piping
it
into
into
leads
seems
to
have
dropped
off
the
radar
a
bit.
So
I
just
wonder
if
polly
could
update
us
on
that.
P
P
K
Yeah
there's
there
continues
to
have
been
work
over
this
last
couple
years
constantly
and-
and
they
have
attracted
quite
a
lot
of
extra
research
money
to
do
all
the
testing
you
know
trying
to
blow
up
pipes
and
so
forth
to
make
sure
that
it
is
actually
safe
to
actually
put
in
people's
houses,
and
that
and
actually
I
think
there
is
going
to
be
a
pilot
scheme
in
gateshead,
actually
around
a
num,
a
number
of
homes.
K
I
think
the
other
bit,
which
is
in
an
interesting
development,
is
that
is
I
I
know
one
of
the
concerns
people
had
was
that
it
isn't
a
complete
decarbonization
in
a
way
you
you'd
have
to
do
all
the
carbon
storage,
but
by
if
you,
if
you
went
through
the
process
which
more
than
gas
networks
previously
outlined.
But
I
think
there
is
some
progress
on.
K
What's
called
green
hydrogen
and
effectively
you
using
renewable
electricity
to
to
separate
the
the
the
separate
the
the
carbon
from
the
sorry
to
separate
water
into
into
hydrogen.
So
there
there's
a
lot
of
work
on
it.
I
think
the
the
jury's
still
out
as
to
what
proportion
of
the
energy
of
heat
will
be
developed
provided
through
hydrogen
as
against
renewable
energy,
delivering
electricity,
we'll
just
say
that
we
will
have
to
see
over
the
next
couple
of
years
how
that
that
split
goes.
But
it's
it.
E
Yeah,
I
appreciate
it
still
on
the
agenda
and
in
a
very
sort
of
broad
sense.
I
I,
I
think,
it'd
be
useful
to
have
a
an
update
if
we
could
of
what's
happening
with
with
this,
particularly
in
view
of
the
way
it
was
it
was,
it
was
sort
of
sold
and
and
trumpeted
a
couple
of
years
ago.
Interestingly,
the
I
understand
that
the
the
hydrogen
town
or
test
sites
have
been
set
up
in
gateshead
are
not
addressing
the
carbon
capture
and
storage.
E
It's
it's
only
the
the
the
used
to
effectively
the
domestic
industrial
use
of
the
hydrogen
and
they
are
manufacturing
that
that
that,
but
ignoring
the
the
the
emissions
that
it
will
will
create.
So
I
think
there's
still,
as
you
say,
a
lot
a
lot
of
work
to
be
done
on
on
that
aspect
of
it,
but
thanks
but
it'd
be
useful
to
have
a
an
update.
I
think
thanks
neil
and
paulie.
A
Right
councillor
walsh
has
indicated
that
council
dawson
indicated
as
well
and
also
so
that
she
has
some
prior
notice
where's
she
gone
well
yeah
dawn
don.
Can
you
update
the
board
on
the
work
that
you're
doing
in
the
group
that
you
chair
the
sub
group
with
sea
act,
but
so
councillor
dawson,
then
council,
wall
shop
and
then
I'll
ask
council
collins
if
she
can
update
the
group
and
the
work
that
she's
leading
on.
H
Thank
you
chair.
A
couple
of
issues
to
raise
the
first
one
is
about
electrical
charging
points
as
we
try
to
approach
the
tipping
point
to
move
over
to
electrical
vehicles.
H
H
H
I
think
one
of
the
great
ways
of
engaging
the
community
is
helping
in
the
planting
of
trees
which
absorb
the
cabin
as
we
know,
and
our
plan
to
do.
5.8
million
trees
in
leeds
is
a
great
opportunity
to
engage
everybody,
and
can
the
council
facilitate
this
groups
of
people
and
maybe
through
community
committees?
Doing
this
I
say
on
the
basis
that
one
of
the
few
things
that
brought
myself
and
councillor
finnegan
together
is
actually
planting
trees
in
dartmouth
park
and
there
are
some
trees
with
our
name
on
them.
P
Yeah,
so
if
you
start
the
electric
charging,
so
there's
been
quite
a
lot
done
on
electric
charging
and
there's
there's
different
theories.
I
think
in
terms
of
how
that
best
works,
and
so
I
suppose
the
argument
is
that
people
don't
have
a
petrol
station
outside
their
home
and
you
know
so.
P
We've
got
charging
points
that
we're
trying
within
the
council
where
you
just
drive
over
them
and
they
charge
the
vehicle
so
we're
trying
lots
of
these
new
technologies
and
but
you're
right
that
it
needs
to
move
into
more
of
a
sort
of
steady
state
and
we're
just
in
discussions
with
highways
at
the
moment
about
how
we
do
that
and
how
we
get
to
the
point
where
we
can
license
and
a
lot
of
that
will
come
through
private
investment
rather
than
via
the
council
and
where
private
investors
come
in
and
there's
a
lot
of
appetite
to
do
that,
and
I
think
we
just
need
to
make
sure
we've
got
the
building
blocks
in
place
to
enable
that,
so
that
that
is
a
really
live
issue.
P
A
Okay,
thank
you
right
now,
good
invite
councillor
walshaw
to
address
this.
Then
I'm
going
to
bring
in
council
collins,
then
councillor
blackburn.
O
Thank
you,
chair
working
in
this
in
these
two
committees
is
always
a
pleasure
to
have
incredible
off
support
from
the
likes
of
polly
and
neil
and
polly's
been
into
what
we're
doing
in
in
great
and
real
detail.
So
I
need
to
go
over
that
one
of
the
it's
been
it's
been
a
very
successful
first
18
months
for
ciac
and
very
pleased
with
the
work
that's
been
done.
O
One
of
our
roles,
really,
I
think,
is-
is
to
be
sort
of
a
a
sort
of
a
two-way
street
between
people
of
leeds
and
all
the
amazing
ideas
they
have
and
what
we're
trying
to
do
as
a
city
council,
and
we
found
a
lot
of
people
with
a
wealth
of
knowledge
and
leads
on
this
incredibly
important
agenda.
But
one
of
our
key
roles
is
trying
to
communicate
to
the
people
of
leeds
to
to
everyone
in
in
the
council
and
more
widely
and
to
to
government.
O
Now
at
the
present
time,
I
don't
think
anyone
in
the
country
is
quite
prepared
for
the
scale
of
this
and
what
that
means,
and
one
of
our
roles
going
forward
is
to
communicate
to
government
and
to
westminster
writ
large.
It's
just
the
the
sheer
nature
of
change
that
they're
going
to
have
to
to
face
and
they're
going
to
have
to
enable
cities
like
leeds
to
to
be
dynamic
and
to
lead
on
this.
So
to
give
us,
as
you
well
know
here,
it
always
breaks
down
to
money
and
powers.
O
and
that's
an
incredibly
important
event
in
glasgow
at
the
end
of
this
towards
the
end
of
this
year,
britain's
hosting
that
it's
really
important
that
we
set
out
our
stage
to
be
carbon
neutral
by
we
think
2030.
O
The
government
says
currently
2050.,
but
actually
really
we
need
to
be
looking
at
2030
and
what
I
would
just
say
is
wike
has
also
a
chair
doing
an
awful
lot
of
good
work,
so,
regarding
to
council
bentley's
questions
about
hydrogen,
if
firm,
if
it
could
look
too,
like
his
green
economy
panel
they're
doing
a
lot
of
work
on
the
hydrogen
economy
for
yorkshire
and
humber,
and
it's
interesting
in
the
18
months
that
I've
been
involved
in
that
panel
chair.
The
discussion
has
moved
very
very
firmly
on.
O
The
hydrogen's
then
used
in
in
whatever
form
it
needs
to
be
used
in
and
then
it's
a
virtual,
a
virtuous
circle
chair.
I
think,
and
that's
what
we're
really
aiming
to
get
to
where
we
can
have
that
more
circular
type
approach
also
just
just
remind
members
that
the
council's
deployed
it
so
well.
It's
deployed
what
a
great
phrase
the
council's
brought
about
it.
O
It's
it's
tree,
hatchery,
it's
a
tree
at
the
area,
I'm
not
sure
trier
is
actually
a
word,
but
it
that'll
allow
us
to
have
the
capacity
to
do
all
this
pre-planting
and
that
noise
you
can
hear
is
my
husky's
barking.
Who's
just
woken
up
so
with
that
child
happy
to
cover
any
and
all
questions,
but
I'm
just
going
to
mute.
While
I
let
her
out.
A
G
Yes,
thank
you
chair.
First
of
all,
I'd
just
like
to
thank
all
of
the
officers
who
regularly
attended
our
working
group
meetings
as
well
as
polly,
and
her
team.
G
We've
also
had
a
lot
of
people
from
planning
and
parks
and
countryside
come
and
join
in
the
debates
really,
and
I
think
it's
quite
important
to
have
officers
at
these
working
group
meetings,
because
one
thing
we
have
learned
is:
if
we're
going
to
progress
things
and
make
significant
changes
in
the
future,
we
need
to
have
policies
put
into
place,
policies
that
are
practical
as
well
as
achievable,
so
that
people
outside
the
council
know
what
our
commitment
is
and
also
these
policies
will
guide
them
legally,
as
well
as
politely
in
the
right
direction,
so
that
that's.
G
My
key
point
is
to
thank
all
of
the
officers
who
regularly
attend,
and
please
plead
with
them
to
do
so
to
continue
to
do
so.
The
first
few
meetings
that
we
had,
we
were
very
heavily
focused
on
trees
and
trees,
planting
and
if
councillor
dawson
would
like
to
to
join
our
working
group,
it
there's
an
open
invitation
for
all
councillors
there.
You
don't
have
to
be
part
of
the
committee,
just
let
polly
know
and
she
will
send
you
any
future
invitations.
G
At
trees,
we
were
looking
at
finding
sites
for
planting
trees
within
the
council
and
what
we
were
doing
to
support
the
white
rose
forest
initiative.
G
Out
of
that,
it
did
become
clear
that
we
don't
have
enough
council
land,
even
if
we
planted
every
square
inch
of
council
land
with
trees.
We
still
don't
think
it's
enough,
and
I
do
agree
that
we
need
some
support
from
government
regarding
finding
private
land,
but
I
think
there
is
also
an
awful
lot.
The
council
could
be
doing
sort
of
leading
the
way
really
talking
to
private
landowners
and
seeing
whether
there's
some
way
that
we
can
incentivize
them
to
to
actually
plant
trees
on
their
own
land.
G
I
know
recently,
we've
had
a
a
couple
of
planning
applications
in
coursework
where
developers
have
said
we'd
like
to
give
you
some
money
to
plant
some
trees
and
as
local
ward
councillors,
we've
said
to
those
developers,
that's
not
the
issue.
The
issue
is,
we
need
you
to
buy
the
land,
even
if
it's
not
on
your
development
site,
so
that
you
can
actually
put
the
trees
in
place.
Not
just
keep
giving
us
money
because
it's
not
the
purchasing
of
the
trees.
That's
the
issue,
it's
refining
the
land.
G
More
recently,
we've
moved
on
to
food
we've
had
several
discussions
about
what
our
priorities
should
be.
We've
all
acknowledged
that
working
with
local
people
regarding
allotments
and
giving
them
the
opportunity
to
grow
food
is
is
one
of
the
things
we
could
be
doing.
There's
a
lot.
We
would
need
to
support
local
people
with
regarding
training
and
education.
G
We've
also
had
some
experts
come
in
and
discuss
with
us
about
vertical
farming,
vertical
farming
on
a
commercial
basis.
We
do
know
that
from
those
presentations
there
are
other
countries
in
the
world
who
have
started
to
look
at
vertical
farming.
G
G
G
One
thing
we
flagged
up
was
that
developers
of
housing
estates
don't
usually
care
about
what
they've
put
in,
under
the
one
inch
of
turf
that
they've
put
in
the
garden
and
whether
there's
something
we
could
do
regarding
policies
as
to
look
at
the
quality
of
the
the
soil
and
the
land.
That's
left
behind
so
that
if
a
new
homeowner
does
wish
to
actually
develop
it
into
a
growing
a
food
allotment,
then
then
they
have
the
opportunity
to
do
that
without
too
much
worry
about
what
spanners
and
bolts
bricks.
G
What
else
they
find
under
the
grass
we've
also
started
looking
at
working
with
partners
regarding
food
procurement
and
one
question
that
did
flag
up
at
our
last
meeting
this
week
earlier
this
week
was
who
is
actually
setting
the
menus
for
a
lot
of
our
schools
and
the
other
organizations
we
procure
food
for
because
maybe
that
is
where
we
need
to
start
to
see
whether
we
can
actually
change
the
menus
without
people
noticing
slightly
so
that
the
procurement
team
can
actually
get
more
food
from
locally
sourced
farmers,
rather
than
actually
buying
the
high
the
high
value
carbon
footprint.
G
Foods
such
as
pineapples
melons,
that
need
to
be
flown
into
the
country
rather
than
can
be
to
groan
and
develop
around.
G
So
so,
we've
done
a
lot
chair
and
we
we're
still
a
very
strong
working
group
team
and
hopefully
we'll
do
a
lot
more.
A
Yeah,
but
no
thank
you
for
that,
and
I
I
think
what
councilman
collins
has
proved
is
how
cross-party
the
administration
have.
You
know
effectively
sent
to
council
collins,
here's
an
area
you
lead
on
it
and
I
think
it
shows
the
council
in
good
light
in
terms
of
the
cross-party
work
that
is
being
done.
So
I've
got
councillor
blackburn
and
then
councillor
smith,
so
councillor
blackburn
first.
A
F
Sorry
chai,
yes,
I'm
here
now
and
my
concern
is
that,
though,
of
course
I'm
in
favor
of
planting
trees,
my
concern
is
actually
who
is
going
to
maintain
them
once
they
grow,
because
we
we
know
that
yes,
the
company
there
can
be
problems
there.
I
know
the
council
doesn't
have
enough
offices
at
the
moment
to
deal
with
the
trees.
F
We've
got
and
that's
obviously
on
council
land,
I'm
talking
about,
but
also
private
private
developers
where
they
put
trees
in
and
then
well
it's
an
awkward
matter
of
who
deals
with
them
afterwards,
unless
there
is
some
disc
garden,
if
it's
on
a
piece
of
spare
land,
you
know
so
so
it
is
a
bit
awkward,
but
my
main
concern
is
on
the
council
land.
O
O
The
first
one
is
trees
are
quite
good
at
maintaining
themselves
in
in
the
short
to
medium
term
longer
term,
and
we
have
to
think
longer
term,
as
always,
with
climate,
we're
going
to
have
to
look
at
how
we
maintain
our
our
public,
our
new
public
forest,
if
you
like
chair
and
that's
a
challenge
for
us,
but
each
one
we
have
to
to
rise
rise
to
meet,
but
I
think
it's,
it's
really
up
to
us
as
a
council
to
lead
by
example,
and
and
demonstrate
that
you
know
we
can
get
a
lot
more
trees
in
in
leads
and
we
are
going.
O
We
are
doing
that,
but
it's
also
through
planning
policies
and
one
thing
to
add
here:
we
are
at
the
moment,
midway
through
a
climate
emergency
emergency
focus,
local
plan
review,
which
will
have
within
an
awful
lot
of
elements
of
biodiversity
within
it.
Well,
as
I've
said
in
the
council
chamber
and
and
ciac,
I'm
I'm
fairly
confident
we
can
shape
the
future
of
what's
new
to
come.
Yeah.
What's
going
to
be
new
to
building
leads,
and
that
includes
strong
biodiversity
element.
P
You
paulie
and
just
to
say
on
a
kind
of
really
practical
basis
in
terms
of
the
funding
that's
been
set
aside
for
the
trees,
specifically
on
council
land.
That
kind
of
maintenance
programme
is
built
into
that
to
allow
for
kind
of
maintenance
in
the
first
couple
of
years
and
then
at
the
point
that
they
have
to
be
thinned.
So
that
is
built
into
the
parks
and
countryside
programme
and
to
maintain
so
hopefully
that
provides
some
comfort.
A
B
Thank
you,
chad,
I'm
going
to
bang
the
planning
drum,
I'm
afraid
I
know
we're
doing
a
lot.
I
know
we
are
doing
a
lot.
We've
been,
you
know
we're
following
a
lot
of
what
we
can
do,
I'm
just
wondering
if
that
is
enough.
I
sit
on
a
plans
panel
and
you
know
regularly.
B
Applications
come
before
us
that
we
condition
to
include
things
like
water,
rain,
water
bots.
You
know
the
the
porous
driveways.
You
know
thing
things
along
those
lines.
I
I'm
wondering.
If,
if
we
are,
we
are
having
a
planning
policies
review.
B
A
Polly
beat
neil
to
the
the
draw
that
time
so,
probably
first
the
menu
and.
P
I
think
just
to
say
that
the
local
plan
side
is
going
to
execute,
I
think
in
march,
and
then
it
will
go
to
sort
of
consultation,
but
the
sort
of
things
that
council
smith
has
indicated,
they're,
certainly
being
looked
at
and
have
been
discussed
in
the
food
and
biodiversity
working
group,
as
kind
of
minimums
and
and
also
we've
linked
up
planning.
Colleagues,
with
some
of
the
university
experts
to
try
and
help
them
develop
their
policies
more
fully
and
to
take
into
account
resilience
as
well
as
and
climate
mitigation.
So.
O
Yeah
thanks
yeah,
just
just
to
demonstrate
that
everything
comes
around
to
planning
eventually
chair,
but
yeah,
council
smith,
you're
right.
We
as
polly
said
we're
looking
from
the
sort
of
the
very
sort
of
micro
issues,
all
the
way
through
to
the
very
large
issues
with
the
the
local
plan
review.
That's
yes,
as
paulie
said
it's
going
to
executive
board
in
in
march
and
then
consultation
hoping
to
see
a
lot
of
input
from
leads
elected
members
on
that
and
there's
a
lot
to
be
said.
O
We're
asking
a
lot
of
open
questions
and
there
isn't
anything
we
won't
consider,
which
is
very
clearly
there's
very
strong
political
status
to
the
planning
service
to
be
as
bold
and
as
radical
as
they
feel
that
they
have
to
meet
the
challenges.
We
know
the
city
faces.
So
I'm
looking
forward
to
it.
There's
a
lot
going
on
it's
going
to
be
it's
going
to
be
an
exciting
year
in
terms
of
planning.
It's
about
as
exciting
as
planning
can
get.
A
G
You
chair,
I
won't
take
it
personally.
I
just
wanted
to
come
back
to
councillor
blackburn's
question
really
because
we
have
discussed
maintenance
at
the
the
working
group
meetings
regarding
the
trees
and
what
was
really
concluded
is
that
there
isn't
one
answer
for
all
trees
as
well
as
the
food.
G
We've
also
got
biodiversity
to
consider
on
our
remit
as
well,
so
the
trees
are
being
planted
because
they
take
carbon
out
of
the
air,
but
we
also
want
to
ensure
that
there
are
a
lot
of
these
large
planted
areas
that
that
are
sort
of
really
left
to
naturalize,
because
they
will
actually
improve
the
biodiversity
and
with
those
areas
as
well.
So
I
think
every
site-
that's
developed
and
planted
up
with
trees
needs
to
be
considered
on
in
its
own
merits,
really
as
to
what
we're
going
to
do
in
the
future.
G
To
maintain
them
a
lot
of
people
assume
that
we've
got.
If
we've
got
a
green
site,
then
people
will
be
able
to
walk
and
walk
their
dogs
all
over
these
sites.
I
think
one
thing
that
we've
established
within
the
the
working
group
is:
we've
got
to
start
setting
aside
areas
where
we
can
just
leave
them
alone
and
let
wildlife
and
nature
take
its
course
as
well.
G
Obviously
that
doesn't
work
with
a
small
site.
You
need
the
bigger
sites,
but
just
to
to
sort
of
reiterate
what
polly
has
said.
His
parks
have
committed
to
looking
after
their
trees,
but
on
a
lot
of
locations
and
maybe
in
the
private
locations
in
the
future.
Maybe
the
best
thing
to
do
is
to
just
let
them
go
wild.
K
It's
just
a
couple
of
points
I
mean
just
in
terms
of
this
board
the
the
issue
which
council
walsh
was
raised
about
the
retrofit
of
housing.
K
Actually,
so
it's
worth
looking
at
that,
but
the
biggest
conundrum
is
actually
the
private
stock
and
you've
heard
something
about
a
bit
about
the
rented
stock,
but
actually
the
biggest
element
is
actually
owner,
occupier
and
clearly,
as
a
council,
we
we
tend
to
focus
rightly
on
issues
around
fuel
poverty,
but
actually
the
biggest
carbon
users
are
actually
the
people
with
the
most
money
were
the
biggest
houses,
and
actually
that
that
we
haven't
kind
of
got
a
a
a
group
on
at
all.
K
As
a
as
a
country
really
and
clearly,
there's
the
the
voucher
scheme
which
has
been
launched,
but
that
has
not
been
a
success
to
date
so
that
that's
something
which
you
know
really
stands
as
as
a
huge
challenge:
owner
occupation
and
particular,
I
say
people
who
one
would
expect
to
make
a
contribution
to
to
actually
reducing
reducing
carbon
usage.
K
K
I
think
the
interpretation
of
that
was
about
you,
know,
people
being
affected
by
flood,
but
actually
the
most
immediate
vulnerability
is
people
being
actually
affected
by
changes
to
the
economy
as
a
consequence
of
carbon,
and
you
probably
people
have
heard
the
ellesmere
port
story
this
morning
with
with
with
cars
and
and
that's
going
to
run
right
through
this
decade.
You
know
actually
from
from
store
big
stories
like
that.
You
know
to
frankly
looking
at
something
like
their
own
services.
We
have
a.
K
We
have
a
fleet
services
which
is
which
is
was
set
up
to
look
after
the
combustion
engine.
We've
now
nearly
got
all
electric
vans
and
it
needs
a
different
group
of
people
and
different
set
of
skills
and
actually-
and
that
will
go
that
only
will
go
for
you
know
going
back
to
cancer
bentley's
question
about
hydrogen.
K
It
will
go
into
gas
fitters,
you
know,
what's
going
to
be
their
future,
much
depends
on
what
sort
of
mix
we
end
up
with
so
actually
and
anticipating
the
sort
of
carbon
low
carbon
economy
which
we
will
have
in
advance
and
actually
thinking
about
who
is
going
to
be
vulnerable
to
that
change,
and
we
have
been
doing
kind
of
work
on
that
and
that
and
then
you
know
really
having
to
look
out.
K
How
do
we
reskill
the
population
in
order
to
actually
meet
the
new
demands
is
really
going
to
be
critical,
both
in
terms
of
actually
actually
meeting
our
targets,
but
actually
also
in
actually
gaining
public
support
and
ensuring
that
people
aren't
left
behind
by
but
by
such
a
revolution,
in
the
way
that
we
deliver
energy,
so
yeah.
I
just
thought
I'd
mention
that,
and
I
kind
of
put
that
on
put
that
on
the
agenda.
A
Thank
you
very
much
right
so
to
try
and
pull
all
of
this
together.
Can
I
thank
the
officers
and
council
wall
shaw
for
presenting
today.
Hopefully,
councillor
hayden
has
now
seen
the
task
that
is
in
front
of
her
and
that
she's
going
to
have
to
work
for,
and
can
I
wish
her
all
the
best,
the
things
that
would
the
things
I
would
pull
together
is.
I
do
think
because
of
how
dynamic
this
is
going
to
be.
A
I
do
think
that
the
point
about
the
green
economy
needs
to
be
made,
and
we
need
to
keep
a
watching
brief
on
that,
but
also,
I
do
think
we
need
to
notify
council,
crosswell
or
council
trustworld's
successor
board
that
it's
something
that
they
need
to
be
looking
into
from
the
work
that
they
are
doing
and
the
retrofitting
of
houses.
A
Yes,
I
think
that
is
something
that
we
have
got
to
take
an
eye
on,
because
if
the
figure
is
six
billion,
you
know
seven
billion
whatever
it
comes
out
to
be
because
one
of
the
things
that
is
concerning
me
is
that
we're
building
a
whole
lot
of
new
houses
and
we
may
end
up
having
to
retrofit
some
of
them
because
the
which
brings
me
on
to
the
planning
issue,
I
accept,
what's
been
said,
but
it
would
be
good
if
we
could
try
and
get
some
of
the
developers
to
volunteer
to
bring
forward
more
green
and
climate
related
changes
rather
than
having
to
wait
on
legislation
or
the
council
to
have
to
do
it
and
making
and
letting
plans
panels
know
whether
or
not
the
developer
has
or
has
not
moved
in
that
direction.
A
For
those
of
you
who
are
on
plans
panels,
you'll
hear
a
number
of
us
going
on
about
policies
en1
and
dn2
and
yeah,
which
is
basically
improving
it
by
x
percent,
the
various
things
by
x
percent.
So
I
do
think
we
need
to
keep
a
watching
brief
on
how
that's
happening
and
how
many
developers
are
volunteering
to
come
in.
But
what
I'll
do
is.
A
O
Yeah,
thank
you,
chad.
I
don't
don't
worry
folks
I'll
I'll
I'll
be
brief.
We
somewhat
interrupted
by
kovid
myself
and
councilman
harry
had
set
up
a
climate
emergency,
the
developers
working
group
to
bring
on
board
the
the
developers
who
understand
this
agenda
and
and
are
already
most
of
them
active
participants
in
that,
and
that
was
interesting.
We
got
sort
of
quite
a
range
of
people
involved.
O
Perhaps
the
more
environmentally
minded
developers
who
joined
in
such
a
city
wouldn't
be
surprised,
but
we
actually
got
quite
a
broad
range
of
of
developers,
not
just
not
just
the
high-end,
green
type
ones,
and
that
was
really
pleasing
and
what
we've
said
to
them
is
you
want
to
have
sort
of
a
transparent,
open
process
where
they
can
demonstrate
good
practice.
We
can
then
communicate
that
to
the
rest
of
the
industry
to
bring
the
the
less
aware
developers
on,
I
don't
say
the
the
bad
developers.
O
That
sounds
a
touch
pejorative,
but
we
all
know
that
there
are
developers
who
fight
any
kind
of
what
they
would
see
as
additional
cost
tooth
and
nail.
Well,
actually,
these
aren't
additional
costs.
These
are
the
very
necessary
costs
of
of
building
resilient
housing,
but
it
does
remain
the
fact
that
at
the
moment,
houses
have
been
built
that
we
will
need
to
retrofit
society
as
a
society
will
need
to
retrofit
and
that's
enormously
concerning
which,
but
to
give
members
some
some
peace
of
mind.
O
We
are
trying
to
turbo
charge
as
much
as
humanly
possible
the
local
planned
process.
However,
we
are
having
to
work
through
statutory
instruments
which
shave.
Let
me
see
many
occasions
are
sort
of
they're
clunky
and
they
need
a
review
and
then
of
themselves,
but
we
are
to
try
to
navigate
them
as
soon
as
possible.
Oh
that's
of
some
some
reassurance.
A
So,
thank
you
all
and
thank
you
very
much
for
your
contributions
to
this
particular
item.
Time
is
moved
on
so
in
terms
of
item
nine
on
the
work
schedule.
A
You've
here
saw
what's
going
to
be
happening,
we've
got
one
final
meeting
in
march
for
the
year
at
which
becky
will
be
pulling
together
a
number
of
strands
and
presenting
them
to
us.
We
have
a
working
group
meeting
on
the
10th
of
march,
where
we
will
be
talking
about
the
use
of
fireworks
in
terms
of
the
anti-social
use
of
it.
That
is
a
working
groups
that
will
not
be
in
public
on
this
occasion,
but
the
final
public
meeting
of
the
year
is
on
the
25th
of
march
at
10,
30.
A
Okay,
so
in
that
case,
can
I
thank
you
all
very
much
for
coming
along
today
and
giving
your
time
and
counselor
dawson.
Thank
you
for
the
time
you've
given
up
again.
If
you
are
interested
in
substituting
again,
I'm
sure
council
will
have
may
be
willing
to
do
so,
but
thank
you
all
very
much.