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From YouTube: Leeds City Council - Scrutiny Board Environment, Housing Communities Board 24 February 2022
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B
C
Sorry
sure
can
I
just
ask
through
you,
I
won't
ask
becky
something
through
you.
If
I
may,
it
mentions
on
page
seven
about
the
overall
numbers
of
households
missed
in
leeds
bing
collections.
Miss.
I
don't
remember
getting
that.
I
won't
swear
that
I
didn't,
but
can
you
just
tell
me
if
you
did
send
it
out,
in
which
case
I
don't?
I.
D
E
C
B
B
That's
me
is
wrong:
we've
got
today
with
us,
steve
rowley.
Now
what
steve
won't
tell
you
is
that
he
was
actually
voted
the
best
landlord
for
2021
by
the
university
of
nepal.
This
was
rate
your
landlord
and
he
also
got
an
award
an
award
for
the
most
caring
landlord
during
the
covert
so
we're
with
with
royalty
today.
B
But
we're
here
today
to
look
into
the
standards
in
the
private
rented
sector
at
the
moment.
It
would
appear
to
me
anyway
that
the
private
rented
sector
is
going
to
have
to
take
up
the
slack
in
terms
of
housing
need
in
this
city
and
it's
vital
that
we
get
the
landlords
complying
with
codes
of
practice.
It's
vital
that
they
look
after
their
tenants
and
it's
vital
that
they
put
in
the
necessary
investment
into
their
properties
so
that
people
can
live
in
good
accommodation
rather
than
just
acceptable
accommodation.
B
J
J
Most
of
it
is
actually
found
in
our
pre-1990
stock
in
the
inner
city
areas.
Rest
of
it
is
depending
on
the
age
group,
but
most
of
it
is
in
the
heart
street
or
in
the
city
areas.
There
is
no
single
private,
rented
sector
market,
it
covers
different
needs,
it
has
different
functions
and
it
provides
different
homes
and
for
different
needs
of
different
people
in
the
in
the
city
of
leeds
becky.
J
A
lot
of
the
loss
of
the
accommodation
in
leeds
is
what
we
call
good
or
reasonable
quality.
It's
market
driven
standards
are
dictated
by
the
market.
It's
not
something
that
we
probably
would
intervene
in.
We
have
rental
markets
that
are
350
500
pounds
per
calendar
month
up
to
thousands
of
pounds
per
calendar
month
depending
on
the
market.
J
What
we
have
seen
is
that
increase
over
the
last
20
years,
significant
amount
of
that
increase
we've
seen
in
the
inner
city
level
in
city
markets,
we've
seen
certain
areas
of
the
city
go
from
10
20
up
to
50,
50
plus
percent
in
certain
areas.
It
is
now
the
main
tenure
in
some
of
those
some
of
those
areas
such
as
eastern
hills
and
other
areas.
We
know
from
our
stock
competition
surveys
in
2007
2017
that
the
poorest
quality
accommodation
is
actually
in
the
city
areas.
J
J
We
work
with
landlords,
so
we
have
the
lease
rental
standard
which
I'll
come
to
in
a
minute
which
allows
landlords
to
self-regulate,
we're
part
of
that.
It
is
run
by
the
sector
for
the
sector,
but
we
do
sit
on
the
board.
We
work
closely
with
the
sector
in
terms
of
consultation
and
looking
at
ways
of
improving
the
quality
of
the
stock.
We
have
education,
we
support
landlords,
we
provide
help
and
support,
so
they
can
improve
the
properties
by
themselves
in
terms
of
mandatory
html
licensing.
J
J
Let's
say
so:
it
allows
self-regulation
of
the
sector.
If
complaints
are
made
against
the
landlord,
then
they
are
inspected
by
colleagues
in
unipol.
They
do
get
involved
in
the
dispute
resolution.
They
ensure
the
properties
are
actually
improved
and
where
they
need
to
be
works
have
done
if
the
landlord
doesn't,
then
it
comes
to
us
and
we
go
straight
to
formal
action.
J
As
far
as
I'm
aware,
we've
never
had
a
referral
through
they've
been
resolved,
as
required,
as
landlords
have
been
required
to
do
so
in
terms
of
the
the
scope
of
it.
It
is
generally
within
the
northwest
of
the
city.
The
highest
numbers
of
accredited
landlords
or
members
of
the
leeds
rental
standard
have
their
properties.
J
In
terms
of
people
coming
to
us,
we
have
a
reactive
offer.
People
come
to
us
through
phone
calls,
emails
via
website
partner
referrals
last
two
years
have
been
difficult.
We've
had
to
follow
government
guidance,
which
mainly
has
been
around
having
to
try
to
post
issues
or
all
issues
that
we
can
remotely
rather
than
visits
we
have
visited.
We
have
continued
to
visit
during
that
period
of
time.
Since
march,
we've
had
over
2000
requests
for
help
and
we've
undertaken
over
1200
inspections.
J
J
We
are
now
starting
to
take
more
inspections
than
we
were
previously
and
since
the
papers
were
submitted,
we've
now
actually
banned.
Our
first
landlord
we've
got
a
banning
order
issued
against
our
first
landlord
we're
just
waiting
for
the
subject
of
the
appeal
to
be
either
heard
or
the
appeal
period
to
actually.
J
Ceased
and
therefore
we'll
be
able
to
publicize
that
they've
been
banned
potentially
for
up
to
five
years
and
they
won't
be
allowed
to
manage
or
run
their
own
properties.
We
have
mandatory
html
licensing,
some
managed
function.
We
have
around
three
three
thousand
licenses
at
any
one
time,
we're
just
coming
up
to
the
period
of
renewals,
based
on
the
fact
that
it's
a
five-year
license
and
most
licenses
were
given
around
when
he
was
first
introduced
in
2007.
J
What
the
new
renewal
license
will
allow
new
period
will
allow
us
to
do
is
to
introduce
the
new
mandatory
conditions
which
came
in
in
2018
around
things
like
waste
that
wasn't
previously
in
there.
So
in
the
last
round,
they
were
not
part
of
the
conditions.
They
were
now
become
part,
the
conditions
as
as
will
others
we're,
also
consulting
on
changing
the
conditioning
range
to
isb,
so
it
matches
that
in
selective
licensing
area,
we've
also
continued
to
target
poor
standards
over
development
of
housing,
multiplication,
they're,
actually
pictures
of
someone's
bathroom.
J
As
you
can
see,
it's
not
exactly
spacious
and
to
my
left,
the
room
itself
was
somebody's
room
and
you
couldn't
fit
a
bed
in
it.
So
we've
continued
to
target
those
landlords
who
are
over
developing
their
properties
and
taking
appropriate
action.
We
have
still
the
world
landlord
unit,
that's
working
in
partnership
with
the
police
and
others
to
actually
target
criminal
landlords.
J
We
target
them
based
on
intelligence
based
on
what
what
is
most
likely
to
give
us
the
best
outcome
in
terms
of
disrupting
their
activity
and,
as
we've
said
in
the
in
the
papers
of
the
last
six
eight
months,
we've
working
with
the
police,
with
shared
intel,
they've
raided
and
removed
about
five
million
pounds
worth
of
cannabis
from
privately
rented
properties.
That
work
continues,
we're
part
of
program,
precision,
parts
of
operation
cooker
and
we
support
west
georgia.
J
Police
have
just
started
around
supporting
those
people
who
are
being
targeted
and
vulnerable
people
who
their
properties
have
been
cuckoo.
Who
are
part
of
other
operations
as
well,
as
I
said,
aim,
is
to
cross
the
threshold
and
make
a
difference
to
people's
lives.
So
it's
more
about
more
than
just
the
bricks
and
mortar,
which
is
our
primary
focus.
It's
about
the
standards,
but
it's
all
about
partnership
approach.
J
Currently,
the
lna
have
targeted
properties
in
halbeck,
they're,
just
completing
that,
and
their
aim
is
to
then
go
and
support
the
work
of
selective
licensing
in
hurdles
and
beast
and
take
that
the
work
that
they've
done
there
that
I
said
it's
about
change
changing
people's
lives.
I
put
this
slide
in
this
was
somebody
who
had
not
been
supported.
No
one
had
been
there.
They
were
living
in
isolation
in
the
sense
that
they
were
accessing
services.
J
J
J
Selective
licensing
designated
that
two
years
ago
we
have
been
affected
by
covered.
We
haven't
been
able
to
do
as
many
inspections
as
we
would
like
to
have
done.
We
have
received
just
under
six
thousand,
it's
just
over
six
thousand
three
hundred
licenses
and
we've
all
currently
issued.
Let's
say
just
over
four
thousand
five
hundred.
There
are
a
number
that
we're
still
in
the
process
of
issuing
and
we've
now
been
able
to
start
the
proactive
inspection.
J
So
we've
started
going
out
and
doing
street
by
street
visits
to
knock
on
doors,
ensure
people
are
complying
with
the
conditions
within
selective
licensing,
support
people
with
their
needs,
as
I've
described
in
the
previous
slide
and
hopefully
make
a
difference
to
the
area
we
still,
unfortunately,
don't
have
all
landlords
signed
up
to
it.
They
have
all
not
everybody
has
applied
for
a
license.
J
J
We
have
the
support
of
those
landlords
who
haven't,
who
have,
and
their
expectation
is
that
we
actually
do
go
after.
Those
who
haven't
part
of
our
work
in
partnership
with
leeds
housing
options
is
that
we
will
ensure
the
properties
that
we
use
as
part
of
issuing
a
bond
or
help
with
rent.
We
do
an
initial
inspection.
J
We
provide
support
for
landlords,
we're
promoting
it
and
since
march
we've
we've
been
able
to
help
create
334
new
tenancies
within
the
private
rented
sector,
all
of
which
we're
ensured
that
the
standard
of
accommodation
meets
what's
required
in
terms
of
what
we
do.
The
final
one
is
obviously
empty
homes.
It's
part
of
the
empty
homes
growth.
We
have
had
an
increase
of
empty
homes
in
the
city.
J
We
have
seen
that
over
the
last
two
years,
in
basically
the
city
centre
in
the
student
market,
we're
expecting
both
those
markets
to
recover
over
the
next
12
months
and
those
numbers
to
drop
and
finally
wasn't
available.
When
we
drafted
the
paper
in
the
leveling
up
paper
that
was
issued
by
government,
there's
a
paragraph
on
what
the
proposals
may
be
for
the
government's
white
paper
on
the
private
rented
sector,
which
we
expected
in
all
autumn
last
year,
but
were
promised
in
spring
this
year.
There
is
talking
that
of
creating
minimum
standards.
J
J
At
the
moment
we
don't
actually
know
the
details
of
that.
We
did
have
a
meeting
with
government
with
other
authorities
on
monday,
where
they
started
the
discussion
around
some
of
these
issues
and
on
one
day
they
were
talking
about
the
decent
home
standards
and
what
that
might
actually
look
like.
So
thank
you.
G
I'm
just
I
mean
it
was.
It
was
a
brilliant
presentation.
You
just
kept
I'm
puzzled
on
these
selective
licensing
in
beast
and
hair
hills.
I
mean
penalizing
people
with
five
and
a
half
thousand
or
ten
thousand
pound
someone
who's
probably
will
have
one
property
to
let
or
two
properties
and
then
just
having
a
selective
area
in
the
city.
G
If
I
can
remember
correctly,
and
he
obviously
someone
who's
go
back
to
back
property
to
let
and
suddenly
he
wasn't
aware
he
wasn't
in
the
city.
I
don't
know
what
happened
to
the
case
and
I
I
didn't.
I
passed
him
over
to
the
to
to
revel
in
councillors
in
in
the
area,
but
I
mean,
if
I
just
worked
so
hard
in
in
my
life
and
I've
got
property
to
elect
and
and
certainly
if
it
was
a
city-wide
policy
I
can
understand,
but
just
having
two
areas
in
the
city.
J
J
2018,
I
believe
we
then
looked
at
the
evidence.
We
looked
at
the
the
what
was
required.
Would
it
stack
up?
He
came
to
exec
board
in
june
9
2019,
the
exec
board
decided
that
they
were
going
to
approve
that
and
they
were
designated
from
january
2020.,
selective
licensing
alone.
You
have
to
have
a
business
case
in
order
for
us
to
be
able
to
produce
it's,
not
something
that
we
can
have
to
have
the
duty
to
do
in
terms
of
city-wide.
J
We
would
there's
nothing
to
stop
us
looking
into
city-wide
selective
licensing
scheme,
but
we
would
have
to
produce
a
business
case
that
justified
that,
based
on
the
six
criteria
correctly
was
used
as
part
of
the
locality
agenda
to
address
deprivation.
That's
why
the
business
case
was
was
produced
and
the
council
just
made
that
decision.
J
J
To
not
hold
a
license
is
an
absolute
offense.
You
either
hold
one
or
you
don't
hold
one.
It's
it's
not
that
in
terms
of
the
fine,
that's
the
average
fine
there
are.
We
have
to
go
through
council's
own
policy
in
terms
of
determining
what
that
fine
is.
It
takes
into
account
all
personal
circumstances
if
you
have,
if
you
have
significant
mitigating
factors,
they
are
taking
into
account
and
they
will
be.
G
Thank
you
for
for
giving
us
the
thorough
sort
of
answer
on
this
particular
issue,
not
for
a
second
I'm
encouraging
you
to
to
go
for
the
whole
city,
but
the
point
I
was
trying
to
make
was:
why
pick
two
particular
areas-
and
you
just
explained-
which
I
understand
just
for
the
for
our
information-
I
mean
these
licenses-
are
not
cheap.
Are
they
I
mean
how
much?
J
The
actual
cost
of
the
license
is
825
pounds
per
property.
The
license
is
calculated
with
the
the
legislation
states.
Basically,
we
have
to
charge
the
cost
of
the
scheme.
We
don't
charge
beyond
that.
We
can't
use
the
license
fee
for
anything
other
than
selective
licensing
administration
of
the
scheme,
plus
compliance
checks
in
terms
of
the
rent
increase.
One
of
the
things
we
are
looking
at
is
has
it
happened?
Has
there
been
an
increase
in
people
being
evicted
as
a
result
of
the
action?
J
At
the
moment,
we
have
no
evidence
to
say
it's.
Lensing
have
increased
as
a
result
of
selective
icing.
Rents
have
increased,
but
rents
have
increased
across
the
the
country
and
the
city
over
recent
months
for
other
reasons,
but
in
those
two
areas
at
the
moment
we
have
no
evidence
that
selective
licensing
is
particularly
impacted
on
the
renting
iron
increases.
I
Yes,
as
mark
said,
the
the
cost
is
825,
but
if
you,
if
you
join
the
leeds
rental
standards,
you
get,
I
think
it's
about
150
pound
discount
off
that
price.
The
license
is
over
five
years
and
it
actually
works
out
at
about
two
pounds,
fifty
per
property
per
week
to
have
that
license.
That's
that's
also
tax
deductible,
so
you're,
looking
at
two
pounds
a
week
for
the
license
over
five
years.
A
Thanks
chair,
I
think
I
take
a
different
approach
to
cancer
because
I
I'd
like
to
see
the
rental
standard
expanded.
Now.
I
think
I
saw
in
your
presentation
that
seven
percent
of
the
private
rented
sector
is
covered
and
I
think
we
can
go
up
to
20
without
getting
going
to
the
secretary
of
state,
but
it
sounds
like
there
needs
to
be
a
business
case.
What's
stopping
us
doing
that
in
the
short
term
and
what
sort
of
area
would
would
that
bring
in
if
we
were
able
to
do
that?
A
A
The
third
question,
if
I
may
chair
in
terms
of
are
there
any
other
discretionary
conditions
that
we
could
bring,
bringing
to
landlords,
whether
in
licensed
areas
or
not,
that
we're
currently
not
imposing
under
the
legislation
and
then
the
final
question.
I
know
you're
writing
these
down.
So
it's
I
jump
into
hmos
and
I'm
interested
on
bullet
point
21
when
it
talks
about
space
and
working
with
planning
on
that
I'm
out
of
the
loop
these
days,
I'm
planning
since
I
moved
on.
A
So
forgive
me
if
I've
missed
something,
but
I
am
concerned
about
these
permitted
development
right
office,
conversions.
Now
I
know
the
government's
slightly
tightened
up
the
rules
around
those
but
they're
still
a
minimum
square
foot,
so
I'd
be
concerned
that
they
may
be
able
to
override
any
of
those
space
conditions
by
you
know
conversions
to
what
are
essentially
micro
flats
and
we
did
have
a
bit
of
a
spring
up
of
those
around
the
city.
J
J
It
is
roughly
probably
9
10
of
the
stock,
because
we
think
it's
around
six
and
a
half
seven
thousand
in
total.
In
terms
of
selective
licensing,
we
are
able
to
self-designate
as
a
local
authority,
up
to
twenty
percent
of
the
overall
private,
rented
stock
or
20
percent
of
the
geographical
area,
at
which
point
we
would
need
to
go
to
the
secretary
of
state
for
approval.
J
Whatever
we
did,
whatever
we
chose
to
do,
we
would
have
to
meet
one
of
the
six
criteria
and
produce
a
business
case
that
stacked
up
if
we
did
more
than
the
20
that
would
be
down
to
the
secretary
of
state
to
determine,
and
ultimately,
we
could
be
subject
to
judiciary
review,
which
we
have
been
with
these
two
cases.
We've
had
two
distribution
reviews,
one
with
an
initial
letter
to
say
that
they
intended
to
which
didn't
progress
from
one
that
went
to
court.
That
was
actually
found
in
our
favor.
J
But
there's
nothing
to
stop
us
doing
that
in
terms
of
selective
licensing
in
terms
of
the
area,
it
would
depend
on
council.
There
are
to
say,
the
six
criteria
are.
If
I
remember
off,
the
top
of
my
head
are
low
demand
crime
and
an
asb
associated
with
the
private
rented
sector,
high
levels
of
crime,
migration,
housing
conditions
and
deprivation.
J
So
we
would
have
to
produce
a
business
case
that
showed
that
a
particular
area
or
the
city
or
whatever
we
chose
to
do
met
one
of
those
criteria.
We
would
then
have
to
consult
on
that.
It's
a
minimum
of
10
weeks,
consultation
with
all
stakeholders,
and
we
would
then
have
to
produce
a
business
case
that
was
either
came
to
the
exec
board
for
approval
or
consideration
and
approval
or
we'd
have
to
go
to
the
secretary
of
state.
J
If
we
want
to
do
more
than
the
20,
we
would
need
to
speak
to
the
secretary
of
state
prior
to
us,
because
there
is
obviously
others
who
want
to
do
it,
and
when
we
spoke
to
them
previously,
they've
said
they
can
only
manage
to
do
three
business
cases
at
any
one
time.
So
it
would
be
for
the
council
itself
to
determine
what
was
the
most
appropriate
option
turned
his
con
attendance
consultation.
J
In
terms
of
why
the
consultation
of
tenants
in
the
private
rental
sector,
it
is
a
very
difficult
thing
to
do
there.
There
is
no
particular
groups,
there
are
think
groups
like
shelter
and
others
that
we
can
speak
to,
but
in
terms
of
a
la
a
group
or
that's
permanently
functioning
in
terms
of
tenants
very,
very
difficult
where
we
have
got
it,
it
tends
to
be
around
a
particular
theme
where
we
had
the
issue
with
cladding.
J
There
was
a
leeds
cladding
group
because
they
were
interested
in
the
cladding,
but
in
terms
of
the
general
because
of
the
diverse
nature
of
the
actual
market.
Yes,
we
can
talk
to
students
through
the
universities
or
through
unicorn
places
like
that,
but
it's
a
lot
more
difficult.
If
there
isn't
actually
a
like
a
that
sort
of
arrangement
discretionary
elements,
we
can
choose
to
put
any
discretionary
condition
on,
but
it
can
be
subject
to
challenge.
J
We
would
consult
as
we've
done
previously,
with
with
conditions.
Part
of
the
consultation,
for
example,
with
selective
licensing
was
around
the
conditions.
There
are
limits
to
the
conditions.
We
can't,
for
example,
put
under
selective
licensing
conditions
that
relate
to
part
one
of
the
housing
act
because
that's
around,
we
already
have
powers
to
deal
with
them.
So,
yes,
we
can.
We
have
done
some
mainly
around
management
issues
asp.
J
There
is
a
recognition
from
government
about
things
around
waste.
Hence
they
brought
in
a
a
mandatory
condition
around
it,
so
it
would
be
forced
to
decide
what
we
thought
was
appropriate.
We
can't
retrospectively
do
it
so,
hence
most
of
the
hmo
licenses
in
the
city.
Don't
have
the
current
waste
condition
on
it,
because
that
was
brought
in
2018
and
we
like
re-licensed
most
in
2016-17,
but
they
will
in
the
new
round
of
licensing
which
will
probably
be
mostly
between
march
and
december
of
this
year.
J
They
will
have
those
that
guidance
in
place
for
us
permitted
developments
or
over
development
doesn't
stop
us
dealing
with
it.
Even
if
we've
got
planning
permission
because
the
two
separate
things
there
is
worked,
examples
around
certain
types
of
accommodation,
mainly
back
to
not
sorry
mainly
sort
of
bedsits,
there's
still
work
to
be
done
around
things
like
communal
space
and
what's
acceptable
in
the
living
room
for
numbers
of
people,
then
there
still
needs
to
be.
J
That
knee
still
needs
to
be
tested
in
tribunals
and
and
or
in
courts,
but
they
are
two
separate
things
very
conscious
that
permitted
development
prior
to
to
april
21,
I
think,
or
even
this
year
that
space
was
not.
It
was
not
part
of
that.
It
is
now
they've
recognized
that
that
was
an
issue,
but
if
someone's
nobody
know
prior
to
that
or
developed
anywhere
without
planning
permission,
doesn't
stop
us
taking
action.
A
I
totally
understand
what
you're
saying
that
it's
for
council
this
to
decide,
but
as
officers
you
have
the
maps
of
where
the
private
rented
sector
properties
are.
Are
you
looking
at
any
other
areas
and
based
on
perhaps
what
you've
learned
from
the
current
ones?
That
might
be
the
next
areas
that
we
look
at.
B
Put
up
bring
in
council
blackburn
on
the
standard
one.
Where
are
we
with
that,
because
I'd
heard
that
the
officer
that
was
dealing
with
it
in
planning
has
moved
on?
Is
it
still
are
we
still
as
a
council
working
on
the
standards
to
the
best
of
your
knowledge
and
you're?
You
are
not
a
planner
and
you're
many
good
things,
but
you're,
not
a
planner,
but
where
are
we
with
because
I
think
abby
has
moved
on.
J
I
Yeah
there
is
a
new
order
of
the
document
and
it
was
in
three:
it
was
in
three
tranches
they're
going
to
remove
the
co-living
aspect
from
from
the
planning
document
and
make
it
purpose-built,
student,
accommodation,
sorry,
purpose-built,
student
accommodation
and
and
hmos.
So
the
document
was
going
to
reduce
by
a
third.
L
So,
yes,
we
produced
an
abbey
produced,
a
document
and
it
came
to
scrutiny
on
co-living
in
particular
and
in
relation
to
planning
applications
that
were
coming
and
where
we
are
in
leeds
with
that
she
has
moved
on
and
got
promotion
as
happens.
I
suppose
in
people's
careers
and
chesterfield's
gain
is
our
loss,
but
I
won't
hold
it
against
her,
but,
yes,
I
will.
L
I
will
find
out
as
soon
as
I
possibly
can
as
to
who
is
replacing
her
in
particular
on
looking
at
this
particular
issue,
so
I'll
get
in
touch
with
jonathan.
I
do
know
that
david
feeney
is
on
leave
this
week,
but
jonathan
should
be
able
to
tell
me
in
terms
of
who
is
dealing
with
this
particular
aspect.
Thank
you.
I'll
get
back
to
scrutiny.
B
E
E
Just
to
say
that
having
led
the
public
health
team
as
executive
member
for
public
health,
there
are
public
health
officers
also
engaged
with
planning
on
standards,
so
that
would
be
somewhere
to
go
as
well,
because
I
think
there
is
a
clear
public
health
issue.
That's
there
and
they're
very
good
and
there's
lots
of
work
going
on
thanks.
C
C
I
just
thought
that
sounded
odd
and
I
were
dealing
with
housing
options
to
do
with
the
case,
and
I
asked
an
officer
there
and
they
said
no.
The
no
need
to
give
the
reason
on
the
eviction
notice.
So
I
just
wondered:
if
somebody
could
explain,
surely
the
person
should
have
known
why
there
was
getting
evicted.
The
rolling
tendency
to
my
way
of
looking
at
it
should
mean
that
you're
okay
in
there,
unless
some
particular
problem
comes
up
and
obviously,
if
it
does,
the
tenant
should
know
about
it.
So
so
could
you
yeah
maybe
can.
J
Section
21
and
there's
two
there's
two
means
by
which
landlords
can
evict
tenants
currently
on
the
landlord
and
turn
attack.
One
is
section
eight,
which
has
reasons
for
it,
so
rentery
is
damaged
whatever
asb,
but
there's
also
section
21,
which
is
a
no
blame
button.
Yeah
yeah,
section
section
21
allows
landlords
to
evict
without
blame.
What
the
government
did
a
few
years
ago
is
consult
on
section
21.
J
What
they've
said
is
in
the
new
white
paper,
which
was
due
at
any
time
they
will
publish
their
proposals
for
what
they
intend
to
replace
section
21
with
so
at
the
moment.
Yes,
they,
the
landlord,
can
the
government
is
looking
at
removing
section
21,
but
we
don't
know
what
they're
proposing
to
replace
it
with.
C
Surely,
when
it
is
replaced,
it
should
give
the
reason,
because
it's
so
unfair
if
somebody's
been
living
there
and
then
with
a
family.
This
particular
lady
had
an
artistic
son
that
went
to
local
high
school
and,
as
we
know,
the
like.
Well,
the
likelihood
of
finding
other
private
property
in
family
fairly
quickly
was
was
fairly
non-existent,
but
there
should
know
why
it's
just
so
unfair
that
somebody
I
mean
the
council
couldn't
do
that.
C
B
B
C
So
yes,
I've
come
across
that
on
two
or
three
occasions
in
the
past,
but
usually
the
tenant
knows,
and
usually
the
the
tenant
has
a
bit
of
a
no
notice
and
many
a
time
when
the
thing
that
might
the
landlord
thinks
might
want
to
do.
That
is
that
just
give
a
tendency
for
about
a
year,
in
which
case
you
know
that
your
tenancy
is
coming
up.
So
you
know,
if
you
have
a
tendency
for
a
year
you
you
hopefully
will
be
able
to
keep
it.
C
You
know,
but
it's
reviewed
every
year,
but
where,
where
that's
happened
before
usually
the
tenants
sort
of
known
and
said
yes,
he
wants
to
sell
the
property
and
and
whatever,
but
in
this
case
it's
it's
wrong
when
they
can
just
throw
somebody
out-
and
I
was
amazed-
I
said
to
the
lady.
Well,
surely
it
says
on
the
eviction
notice
and
she
says
no.
B
J
In
terms
of
section
21,
it's
not
an
area
on
the
world,
but
as
far
as
I'm
aware,
if
it's
served
legally
and
it's
served
correctly,
then
the
landlord
is
entitled
to
do
that.
I
think
we
would,
I
think,
colleagues
in
lho
have
strategies
and
policies
in
place
to
support
people
in
that
position.
They
can
talk
to
the
landlord
they
can
help,
but
ultimately
the
landlord
has
the
right
to
do
it.
Hence
the
government
reviewing
that
legislation
and
their
proposals.
F
Thank
you
chair.
I
think
I
think.
First
of
all,
I
think
I
need
to
challenge
steve
on
the
on
the
section
21
saying
that
you
need
to
sell.
You
need
to
get
the
section
21
before
you
can
sell
a
property,
because
I've
seen
plenty
of
properties
that
are
listed
with
tenants
in
situ.
So
if
that
were
the
case,
I
don't.
I
don't
understand
why
why
you
say
that
I
don't.
I'm
also
concerned
that
there's
no
representatives
from
tenants
organizations
at
this
meeting,
there's
a
member
of
acorn
sat
just
behind
you
who
organized
locally.
F
You
want
to
wave
he's
wearing
a
t-shirt,
it's
very,
very
visible,
so
there's
plenty
of
organizing
going
on
locally.
So
I
think
I
want
to
go
back
to
mandatory
waist
conditions
because,
because,
obviously
in
in
the
inner
northwest
area,
we've
got
a
lot
of
issues
with
them
with
waste
and
landlords
not
really
carrying
the
weight
in
terms
of
especially
at
what
we
call
hyde
park
christmas.
F
J
To
remove
any
license,
we
would
have
to
have
reasons
for
doing
it.
Someone
not
simply
addressing
waste,
probably
would
not
be
sufficient
for
us.
We
would
need
to
have
to
have
a
systematic
evidence.
If
you
look
at
the
banning
order
that
we've
done
the
person
in
question
has
been
subject
to
a
number
of
prosecutions
over
a
number
of
years
that
has
allowed
us
to
demonstrate
that
they're
not
capable
or
suitable
to
be
a
landlord.
Hence
the
banning
order
for
us
to
remove
a
license.
J
J
J
Ultimately,
they
can't
go
around
and
pick
up
a
tenant's
rubbish
and
put
it
in
the
bin
for
them
it's
about
making
sure
they
provide
adequate
facilities
for
them
to
for
people
to
use
it's
around
them,
making
sure
they
know
what
days
the
bins
are
supposed
to
go
out.
It's
about,
if
they're
not
doing
it
being
taking
reasonable
steps
to
make
sure
they
try
and
make
them
do
it.
J
But
ultimately,
if
a
landlord
does
everything
that
is
reasonable,
then
it
would
be
difficult
to
prosecute
them
if
their
tenants
persisted,
because,
ultimately
it
is
the
tenant's
responsibility
and
there
was
a
legislation
available
to
the
council
to
address
that
issue
to
ban
a
landlord.
We
need
to
prosecute
them
twice
within
12
months
under
certain
offences
and
that
allows
us
to
ban.
So
it
would
be
around
that
sort
of
level
of
of
action.
If
you
like
from
us
to
do.
B
Enforcement
unit
that
they're
setting
up
within
the
environment
department
we're
looking
at
commercial
now,
you
know
the
a
landlord
is
a
commercial.
Is
there
any
way
we
could
work
with
them
so
that
they
can
take
action
and
issue
notices
against
the
person,
and
that
could
be
the
evidence
that
you
need,
or
is
that
not
possible.
J
We
we
would
have
to
have
evidence.
Ultimately,
yes,
it's
around
whether
or
not
we,
the
landlord,
is
not
being
reasonable
for
us.
The
conditions
if
you
like,
if
you
look
at
hmo
licensing
manufacturing,
the
purpose
of
hmo
licensing,
is
to
actually
make
the
the
property
which
is
deemed
to
be
the
highest
risk
types
property
for
people
to
live
in
safe
for
the
occupiers.
J
But
it's
a
it's
if
we
prosecute
somebody
to
wants-
or
there
is
allegations
of
them
not
doing
waste
that
would
not
deem
it
suitable
for
to
if
we
find
landlords
persistently
fly
tipping
and
they
are
not
doing
what
they're
supposed
to
do
or
they're
not
following
it,
and
they
have
a
license,
then
that
we
can
use
that
evidence
to
say.
Yes,
we
don't
believe
they're
fit
and
proper
person.
J
F
F
What
exactly
is
the
the
level
of
proof
that
we
need
to
remove
a
license?
Because,
honestly,
the
northeast
is
an
absolute
state
and
you've
seen
it
and
you
know
it
and
it's
costing
the
council
a
lot
of
money
to
clear
it
up,
and
I
know
that
I
know
that
stephen
and
others
are
trying
to
to
tackle
it.
But,
like
you
know,
we
need
to.
We
need
to
do
something
about
it.
Don't
we.
J
I
don't
disagree,
but
the
mandatory
license
condition
was
brought
in
by
the
government,
not
the
council,
so
it's
it's
laid
down
in
legislation.
What
it
actually
is,
and
it's
about
sure
that
the
landlord
does
what
they
can
do
to
manage
that
property.
You
can't
hold
someone
accountable
for
the
behavior
of
someone
in
their
property.
You
can
only
hold
them
accountable
for
the
actions
they
take
to
address
those.
That's
the
purpose
of
the
legislation.
B
I
B
F
I've
got
I've
got
something
else.
I
want
to
ask
about
about
the
selective
licensing,
so
I'm
also
of
the
opinion
that
selective
licensing
could
be
expanded
and
I've
seen
that
that
liverpool
have
actually
expanded
selective
licensing
to
include.
I
think
it's
I've
seen
a
map,
and
it's
definitely
around
about
half
of
the
half
of
the
geographic
area
which
I'm
assuming
that
they've
managed
to
get
permission
from
the
government.
J
J
Election
promises
so
prior
to
it.
Going
back
to
this
back
to
the
secretary
of
state
liverpool's,
whole
city,
the
whole
administrative
area
of
liverpool
was
covered
by
selective
licensing,
they
went
for
re-licensing
and
it
was
reduced
to
the
size
that
they
have
now,
so
it
went
from
full
to
half.
There
are
other
parts
of
the
city
or
other
parts
of
the
country
that
have
wider
selective
licensing
schemes
than
us.
There's
nothing
stopped
to
stop
us
doing
that,
and
in
order
to
do
that,
we
would
need
to
produce
a
business
case.
J
We
would
need
to
resource
those
areas
accordingly,
selective
licensing
alone
will
not
change
some
of
the
problems.
You're
referring
to
it
requires
a
partnership
approach.
It
requires
other
agencies
to
do
step
up
and
do
their
bit.
It
can
make
a
difference
where
it
has
made
a
difference.
It
has
been
that
wider
approach.
It
has
been
using
that
process
to
allow
you
to
intervene
and
address
wider
issues
where
they
haven't
been
successful.
B
E
Thank
you,
chair,
no
surprise
I've
scribbled
all
over
this
mark
you
and
I
have
had
several
conversations.
I've
got
three
points.
I'd
like
to
bring
up
those
specifically,
please,
if
I
may,
so
what
is
the
average
time
scale
from
a
license
application
to
somebody
actually
renting
that
property
as
their
home?
E
So
what
are
those
fees
used
for
and
also
the
fines
that
you're
you're
levying
on
on
landlords,
given
our
well
our
reliance,
ultimately
on
the
pr,
the
private
housing
section?
Could
that
be
used
to
shore
up
and
enlarge
the
private
lettings
team
is?
Is
that
is
that
feasible?
Because,
obviously
you
know
we
get
into
a
point
where
we
are
relying
very
heavily
on
the
private
lettings
team.
E
So
is
that
then,
a
way
of
moving
things
forward,
because
I've
noticed
throughout
the
report.
You
said
you
know:
we've
we've
had
so
many
applications,
but
we've
only
managed
to
process.
So
many,
so
is
that
a
way
of
speeding
that
that
up
as
well-
and
my
final
point-
you'll
be
glad
to
know-
is
it's
0.20
and
it's
on
the
hmos.
E
J
First
thing
is
in
terms
of
licensing:
you
don't
need
a
license
and
then
registered
property
people
can
be
in
the
property
while
you
go
through
the
license
process,
so
it
is
not
there.
Isn't
it
isn't
that
for
us,
as
long
as
you
have
applied
for
the
license,
you've
complied
because
it's
with
us
then
to
process
your
application.
J
J
So
it's
the
offices
that
we
use
to
do
that
who
come
in
and
do
that.
We
cannot
even
use
that
fee
to
cover
part
one
well
part.
One
is
the
mandatory
duty
on
us
to
go
and
inspect
properties
to
ensure
they
meet
the
minimum
standard.
What
we've
done
as
a
as
a
council
is,
we
have
recognized
that
and
put
resources
into
so
that
we
have
part
one
resources
to
go
and
do
that
part
of
the
elements
in
terms
of
beeston
and
hills.
J
But
that's
that's
the
restriction
on
it,
so
we
can't
use
it
to
go
and
pay
for
officers
to
even
go
and
do
part
of
the
legislation
that
we
would
do
in
that.
We
would
have
to
cover
that
the
fee
income
that
so
sorry
the
civil
penalty
income,
that's
something
that
the
government
brought
in
in
2016
as
part
of
the
housing
and
planning
act.
It
allows
us
to
retain
that
income.
J
J
So
we
need
that
additional
legal
resource
in
order
for
us
to
take
those
issues
through
deal
with
the
tribunals
deal
with
the
prosecutions
as
a
result.
So
that's
where
we're
using
the
money
and
the
income
to
do
that.
We've
got
two,
I'm
not
sure
the
title
I
apologize,
there's
league
legal
office,
I
think
they're,
seeing
the
legal
offices
of
po6
and
also
we
provide
some
finance
in
order
to
recover
the
money,
because
there's
no
point
getting
the
money,
if
you
like
winning
your
case
and
therefore
the
income
and
not
getting
the
money.
J
So
we
also
pay
towards
the
recovery
of
that
money
as
well.
So
that's
where
the
fee
and
finally,
we
have
somewhere
around
20
to
22
000
what
we
would
call
houses
and
multiple
occupation.
They
range
from
your
city
center
purpose,
built
flats
through
to
your,
as
you
saw
in
the
presentation,
some
of
the
worst
homes
that
we
will
come
across
in
terms
of
3
000,
mandatory
hmos.
J
The
criteria
for
that
is
five
or
more
people,
two
or
more
households
that
remove
the
story
elements
it
used
to
be
two
or
more
stories,
there's
no
stories
now,
so
it's
five
or
more
people,
two
two
or
more
households,
if
you,
if
you
have
that,
then
that
is
you
require
a
license,
but
we
recognize
that
there
are
a
number
of
properties
that
be
like
fall
below
that
and
we
do
proactively
target
those
based
on
intelligence
and
some
of
the
ones
that
use
some
of
the
pictures
you
saw
earlier
come
from
ones.
We've
come
across.
B
E
E
L
J
Thank
you
in
terms
of
the
licensing.
The
aim
is
to
expect
properties.
At
least
once
doesn't
mean
that
we
won't
go
back
if
there
is
a
need
for
us
to
go
back
and
that
will
be
based
on
intelligence
so
where,
for
example,
we're
targeting
those
landlords
who
we
know
are
failing
in
their
duty,
we
may
decide
that
we
will
go
back
on
the
number
of
occasions
or
we
want
to
go
back
because
they're
part
of
the
road
landlord
unit
or
the
of
interest
to
us
in
terms
of
the
wider
area
outside
of
licensing.
J
We
recognize
that
as
a
council
and
that's
why
we
created
the
leeds
neighbourhood
approach,
which
has
been
working
initially
worked
in
the
knolls.
He
was
then
working
in
the
edibles
in
harmony
and
has
then
spent
the
last
few
years
in
holbeck,
linked
to
the
fact
that
the
recreations
are
one
of
the
most
private
areas
in
the
country.
J
J
We
can
agree
works
for
their
properties.
We
can
support
the
landlord,
who
has
obviously
some
tenants
who
will
be
requiring
that
additional
support,
as
as
I've
put
in
the
slide,
but
also
it
allows
us
to
target
those
landlords
in
those
areas
that
are
less
than
cooperative,
shall
we
say
and
put
the
resources
into
that.
J
Ultimately,
we
can
only
do
what
we've
got
resources
to
do.
I
have
to
say,
as
a
service
we've
been
very
fortunate
over
the
last
10
years,
we
have
actually
more
than
doubled
in
size
compared
to
where
we
were
in
2010,
if
he
was
to
give
me
more
resources.
Yes,
of
course
I
could
do
more.
But
yes,
it
does
come
down
to
the
resources
that
we
have.
B
E
Thank
you,
chad.
I
just
wanted
to
go
back
to
the
waste
issue.
I
think
a
lot
of
the
times.
The
waste
issue
isn't
necessarily
the
tenants,
but
it's
when
there's
a
transition
from
one
tenant
to
another
and
the
landlord
landlord
goes
in
and
dumps
everything
that
he
doesn't
want
in
the
wheelie
bins
or
next
to
the
wheelie
bins.
E
So
so
do
we
actually
do
we
actually
sort
of
pursue
them
on
that
and
expect
them
to
actually
get
to
skip
or
take
the
rubbish
away
and,
in
addition,
do
we
allow
them
to
use
the
free
bulky
wakes
collection,
because
I
think
we've
already
said
this.
These
landlords
are
running
these
as
a
business
and
if
they
want
to
go
and
change
half
a
dozen
mattresses,
do
they
take
them
away
or
do
we
just
take
it
on
the
chin
and
collect
it
free
of
charge
for
them.
J
I
Landlords
who
are
part
of
the
lead
rental
standards
are
given
access
to
the
tip
down
at
kirksville
road
or
up
at
seacroft,
and,
and
there
are
limits
as
to
what
the
landlord
can
take
free
of
charge.
You
can
take
a
maximum
of
it
used
to
be
six
black
bin
liners.
It
was
reduced
to
four
bin
liners
and
you
can
also
take
your
garden
waste
down
if
the
lambo
wants
to
do
the
gardening
of
that
empty
property
in
relation
to
mattresses.
I
Yes,
landlords
can
take
mattresses
down
in
the
vans
and
we
pay
for
that
service.
So
if
you
want
to
take
six
mattresses
down-
and
it
might
probably
cost
to
the
region
of
100
pounds
to
dispose
of
the
problem
at
the
moment,
is
the
the
council
has
reduced
the
number
of
mattresses
a
landlord
can
take
to
the
tip
we're
not
allowed
to
take
more
than
three
mattresses
at
any
one
time
which,
which
is
a
little
bit
of
an
issue
to
us
housing,
multiple
occupancy
in
in
heading
lehigh
park.
I
During
the
the
big
clear
out
time
you
could
have
10
20
mattresses
and
so
to
take
a
van
full
of
mattresses
down.
Three,
at
a
time,
you
will
be
charged
100
pounds
for
taking
three
mattresses,
as
you
would
be
charged
a
hundred
pounds
to
take
ten
mattresses
so
and
there's
some
work
needed
between
the
council
and
landlords.
On
that.
E
Yeah,
yes,
but
it
the
landlords
are
running
these
as
businesses
I
mean
at
the
moment.
We
have
an
issue
that
all
residents
in
leeds
have
to
pay
if
they
want
to
take
inert
waste
to
the
tip,
but
they're
already
paying
their
council
taxes,
so
I
think,
actually
you're
on
a
good
thing.
If
the
council
is
prepared
to
take
anything
free
of
charge
for
you,
because
really
they
are
businesses
for
yourselves.
I
We
are
happy
to
pay
again
like
in
a
way
sweet.
We
don't
get
to
take
that
down
to
the
to
the
refuge
site
free
of
charge.
We
have
to
pay
just
as
any
any
normal
resident
would
do
and
we
have
to
pay
for
our
mattresses.
We
have
to
pay
for
our
fridges
taken
down.
Don't
do
only
three
items.
Are
black
bin
liners
of
household
waste?
So
when
somebody's
moving
house
they
might
have
ten
big
black
bin
liners
of
which
only
three
will
fit
into
the
black
bins.
I
C
Household
waste,
because
I
understood
that
just
recently
when
the
council
have
gone
back
to
well
they've
decided
that
they
will
now
collect
like
furniture
items
large
items
that
they'll
do
it
for
free
they've.
Just
decided
to
do
that
again
now
and
I
read
somewhere
that
if
he
was
a
member
of
the
sort
of
leeds
rental
standard
that
there
was
some
agreement
there
with
paragraph.
B
C
Unfortunately,
we're
not
allowed
to
say
every
landlord
has
to
be
I'd
like
to
see
that,
but
I
know
legally,
you
know
we
can't
do
that,
but
I
want
to
know
what
we're
doing-
and
this
question
is
to
mr
rowley
as
well,
what
we
doing
to
get
more
people
to
join
and
particularly
what
we're
doing
to
these
rogue
landlords
that
you
know
to
me
once
you
prosecute
them.
I'd
like
to
be
able
to
say
well
right
now
you
have
to
join
these
reasons
and
standard,
as
I've
said.
I
know
you
legally.
C
We
can't
do
that,
but
I'd
like
to
know,
what's
being
done,
to
try
and
persuade
them
to
do
that,
because,
where
you've
got
rogue
landlords-
and
I
think
maybe
all
of
us
might
have
the
odd
one
or
two
and
I've
got
the
other
one
too
in
my
world-
and
I
know
certainly
one
I'm
picturing
in
my
head
at
the
moment-
you
might
pursue
them
and
take
them
to
cart.
But
you
can
bet
about
a
year
or
so
later,
he'll
be
up
to
something
else,
and
you'll
have
to
do
it
all
over
again.
Okay,.
B
J
We
first
little
release
rental
standard
is
not
a
council
scheme;
it
is
a
sector-led
scheme
of
which
we
support.
We,
as
a
council
promote
it.
We
promote
it
as
part
of
our
engagement.
We
promote
it
as
part
of
when
we
send
out
mail
shots,
we
promote
it.
When
we
speak
to
landlords
who
are
not
members,
we
can't
make
people
join.
I
would
love
more
people
to
join.
J
I
think
it's
a
fantastic
opportunity
for
the
sector
to
to
have
what
he
asked,
I'm
not
sure
in
terms
of
rogue
landlords,
whether
we
actually
want
them
on
the
scheme.
If
I'm
honest,
I
think
if
they
are
that
bad,
then
we
don't
want
them
on
the
scheme
to
disrupt
or
bring
the
scheme
into
reputation,
but
in
terms
of
in
terms
of
those
landlords
who
aren't,
we
do
encourage
them
to
do
it
in
terms
of
the
white
paper,
there
is
the
potential
of
a
national
register
for
landlords.
J
I
I
We
do
get
access
to
the
tip
for
certain
things.
It's
the
majority
of
things
we
still
have
to
pay
for,
but
but
certain
things
we
do
get
access
down
at
the
tip
and
also
it
was
mentioned
about
having
a
a
letting
service
from
the
council.
We
do
any
landlord
who's.
Part
of
the
rental
standards
does
have
access
to
advertise
their
properties
with
housing
options.
C
Come
in
just
two
quick
things,
I
wondered
if
mr
rowley
did
anything
about
vetting
your
landlords,
particularly
if
you
think
there's
a
problem.
If,
if
some
tenant
maybe
appeals
to
you
about
a
certain
mammal,
presumably
you
take
it
up,
but
would
you
affect
them?
And
yes,
I
think
that's
it.
There
was
something
else,
but
oh
and
the
other
thing
was,
could
we
be
informed
about
this
law?
That's
actually
coming
through
that
you
related
to
mr
ireland.
Just
now
could
I'd
like
to
know
a
bit
more
about
it.
You
say
it's:
it's.
J
J
So
if,
if
a
landlord
fails
in
their
duty,
then
it's
there
is
an
independent
body.
We
would
sit
on
that,
so
there
would
be
representatives
from
landlords,
groups
etc,
and
it's
and
it's
chaired
by
a
solicitor
about
a
communist
list
or
barrister
who's
independent.
So
they
are
subject
to
the
same
thing.
If
they
go
through
that
process,
they
may
be
given
a
education
struck
like.
J
I
Yeah
and
and
we're
also
with
it,
with
our
landlord
association,
we've
been
working
with
mark
on
this,
we're
actually
coming
up
with
a
code
of
conduct
as
well
for
ourselves,
which
we
we've
never
had
in
the
past,
and
we
wanted
to
become
a
far
more
professional
body
than
we
are.
So
we're,
probably
a
couple
of
months
away
from
having
a
professional
call
of
conduct
which
works
similar
to
accreditation
like
unipol,
where
you'll
have
a
disciplinary
procedure.
F
J
J
Discussion
that
they're
having
there
with
the
mayor
in
bristol
I'm
aware
that
the
bearing
bristol
will
be
approaching
course
it
is
around
support
for
some
sort
of
rent
control
for
want
of
a
better
term.
There
are
different
options
of
how
you
would
do
that.
We
obviously
have
a
rent,
the
social
sector.
There's
you
used
to
be
the
rent
officer,
there's
different
things
in
holland,
there's
different
things
in
belt
and
germany.
J
There
isn't
the
powers
at
the
moment
whether
it's
something
that
the
government
would
look
to
introduce.
I
don't
know
personally,
I
think
it's
part
of
a
wider
debate.
We
need
on
the
private
rented
sector
anyway.
There
is,
as
I
said,
right
at
the
beginning
of
my
presentation.
It
provides
for
so
many
different
needs
and
if
I
go
back
to
counselor
backwards,
I
think
you
know
people
live
in
the
sector.
They
want
to
put
down
roots.
They
want
to
be
able
to
have
that
security.
J
So
perhaps
there's
a
discussion
about
how
we
we
look
at
tenancies
and
what
is
available
and
with
that
mic
become
longer
longer
tenancies
that
allow
some
sort
of
rent
increases
being
built
into
them
like
they're.
In
there
is
in
the
continent,
but
I
I
understand
that
we
will
be
contacted
as
part
of
that
discussion
and
whether
it's
a
national
campaign
or
it's
to
devolve
to
local
mars.
That's
for
the
government.
B
B
And
the
table
because
I
can
everybody
introduce
themselves,
but
if
we
do
that,
every
single
time
we'll
be
here
all
day,
so
is
there
anybody
you
don't
know,
comes
up!
That's
fine,
okay,
right!
So
again
I
got
an
excellent
briefing
on
this
and
that's
why
I
felt
that
this
actually
needed
to
come
forward.
So
I
will
pass
over.
Is
it
zaheed
or
is
it
mr
money,
that's
leading
on
the
presentation.
M
M
What
we're
here
to
do
today
is
to
talk
to
you
about
the
the
development
of
the
recommendations
that
were
within
the
review
and
and
how
progress
is
being
made
to
improve
the
the
service,
as
you
can
see
from
that
slide
there.
It
probably
just
a
quick
reminder
to
to
members
if,
indeed,
that's
needed,
that
leeds
watch
is
the
base
for
a
number
of
services.
Often
it's
it's.
It's
considered
to
be
the
cctv
monitoring
facility,
which,
of
course
it
is,
but
you
can
see
there
on
that
slide.
M
All
the
other
kind
of
services
that
operate
seven
days
a
week,
24
7
out
of
the
out
of
leeds
watch
based
up
at
middleton.
I
don't
think
I
need
to
say
too
much
more
about
side
we'll
go
to
the
next
one.
If
that's
okay,
just
in
terms
of
the
aims
and
objectives
of
the
review,
as
you
can
see
there,
we
were
really
focused
on
on
on
both
the
internal
and,
indeed
the
external
service.
D
So
in
terms
of
a
project
management
role.
It
was
really
important
for
me
to
coordinate
the
review
in
terms
of
getting
the
subject
matter.
Experts
on
board,
which
was
leeds
watch
the
staff
themselves
that
leads
watch
and
and
the
anti-social
behaviour
staff.
There
was
so
many
overlaps
with
within
those
services,
as
well
as
engaging
with
the
professional
experts
in
hr,
finance
and
legal,
and
also
the
team
that
supported
me.
My
project
team.
D
So
my
team
engaged
with
all
leads
watch
managers,
operational
staff
and
key
stakeholders
to
understand
what
the
current,
what
the
issues
were
in
terms
of
the
operational
delivery
in
terms
of
the
working
conditions,
and
so
we
did
sort
of
like
a
whole
whole
heap
of
staff
staff
workshops
and
collected
lots
and
lots
of
data
there
and
feedback.
We
also
did
a
lot
of
data
gathering.
D
Was
there?
What
there
was
opportunities
for
us
to
look
at
driving
effectiveness
and
efficiencies,
but
that
would
be
through
working
in
a
different
way
to
what
we
were
working
previously.
And
there
were
also
some
role
creep
from
when
we'd
taken
on
additional
duties
from
from
different
areas
which
had
led
to
what?
What
I'd
as
a
dilution,
in
focus
on
that
operational
delivery
and
what
was
really
apparent
as
well
from
the
feedback
from
staff
was,
and
the
feedback
was
the
work
in
the
24-hour
shift
pattern.
D
And
they
were
complaining
that
there
was
a
poor
work-life
balance.
There
was
also
a
high
turnover
of
staff,
and
the
feedback
was
that
they
didn't
see
a
clear
career
progression
and
there
was
some
working
in
silos
within
the
teams
at
leedswatch.
So
what
we
wanted
to
do
is
we
wanted
to
address
that
as
part
of
the
review,
and
so
what
we
did
is
we
formed
a
steering
group
and
we
had
all
the
key
stakeholders
involved.
D
So
we
we
reviewed
the
structure
and
we
put
some
some
recommendations
forwards
along
that
structure.
But
there
were
some
key
elements
that
I
had
to
consider
that
were.
I
was
given
clear
directive
around
that
that
structure
needed
to
be
flexible
to
cope
with
changes
in
service
demand
at
peak
times,
so
we
so,
for
instance,
it
could
be
situations
where
call
handling
was
higher
or
you'd
need
more
officer,
more
trained
officers
on
the
streets
to
be
able
to
deal
with
noise
responses.
N
Thank
you.
Sharon
chair
I've
been
reminded
by
my
chief
officer
that
at
times
that
might
be
getting
a
bit
a
bit
of
the
kind
of
the
better
of
us.
So
what
I'll
do
is
I'll
I'll
go
through
the
the
next
slide
and
then
I'll
I'll
pick
up
a
few
of
the
slight
things
from
the
slide
after
so
the
work
that
sharon
mentioned
led
to
us
implementing
the
restructure.
On
the
first
of
september,
we
moved
from
five
teams:
five
operational
teams
to
four
operational
teams.
N
We
implemented
a
new
shift
pattern,
so
staff
were
with
us
four
days
four
days
working
four
days
off,
but
with
us
for
a
longer
period
of
time
and
then
had
four
days
off
which
which
helped
them
to
manage
that
work-life
balance.
We
also
looked
at
staff
in
a
midshot
that
we
had
more
staff
available
in
the
evening
and
overnight
and
left
less
during
the
day
when
it
was
less
busier.
N
Sharon
mentioned
the
silo
functioning,
so
we've
now
got
operational
staff
that
are
multifunctional,
that
will
deliver
services
in
a
geographical
area
response
officers
that
will
undertake
noise
patrols,
respond
to
alarms
and
also
undertake
anti-social,
behavior
patrols.
In
multi-story
blocks
in
other
areas
of
the
city,
previously
those
were
separate
teams
that
delivered
those
functions,
and
so
there
was
some
inefficiency
there,
where
staff
were
traveling
from
one
geographical
area
to
another.
So
we've
reduced
that
and
cut
that
down.
N
N
We've
also
created
a
deployment
and
triaging
function
and
we're
working
with
ids
in
relation
to
a
digital
mobile
solution
that
will
allow
the
control
room
to
digitally
deploy
staff
and
using
ipads
and
those
kinds
of
that
kind
of
technology
and
be
able
to
map
that
internally
within
the
control
room.
So
they
can
see
where
the
most
efficient
person
is
to
deal
with
issues
that
come
into
the
control
room,
be
it
alarm
response
or
responding
to
noise.
N
We've
also
created
a
performance
and
relationship
team,
and
that's
team
has
taken
away
some
backroom
function
from
the
operational
staff.
So
previously
operational
staff
were
undertaking
backroom
functions.
That's
now
kind
of
been
taken
away
by
the
performance
and
relationship
relationship,
team
and
they're,
delivering
that
and
they're
also
our
main
point
of
contact
in
relation
to
customer
and
partner
contact
and
in
terms
of
working
with
yourselves
members
and
providing
information
to
yourselves
in
relation
to
performance
information
that
you
received
previously.
N
The
next
slide
in
shows
a
range
of
outcomes,
and
I've
touched
on
some
of
those.
There
are
some
case
studies
towards
the
back
of
the
paper
as
an
appendix
and
there's
one
there
that
I
just
want
to
pick
out
in
relation
to
this
in
this
area
and
that's
in
relation
to
a
vulnerable
person
that
was
being
financially
exploited
and
that
was
captured
by
one
of
our
cctv
operators.
N
B
A
Thanks
for
that,
it's
always
unfortunate
when
you're
following
a
long
item,
isn't
it
so
thanks
for
what
you've
said
and
what
have
you
so
my
question
is
on
the
I
think
it's
under
the
background
undertaking
patrols
of
parks
and
green
spaces
to
deter
crimean
airspeed.
Could
you
just
explain
what
that
entails?
A
You
have
this
function
within
cctv
where
an
area
can
be
watched
because
you've
got
that
many
screens
and
there's
an
email.
Isn't
there
that
police
teams
or
well
certainly
police
teams,
can
report
to
you.
I
think,
because
of
the
the
churning
police
officers
and
paul
will
know
this
as
the
great
officers
get
promoted,
and
then
you
get
new
teams
in.
I
think
that
needs
regularly
reminding
the
local
neighbourhood
police
in
teams
of
that.
Because
I'm
you
know
it's
in
my
patch.
It
wasn't
actually
known
that
well.
Thank
you.
N
Thank
you
chair.
Just
in
relation
to
the
the
patrols
we
do
operate,
foot
patrols,
so
officers
will
pack
up
their
vehicle
in
a
safe
place
and
and
then
proceed
on
foot
in
relation
to
those
patrols
in
relation
to
police
and
and
other
partners.
I
I
agree
that
we
we
do
need
to
look
at
how
we
engage
with
neighborhood,
policing
teams
and
yourselves
as
members
as
well,
and
and
that's
something
that
I've
asked
the
performance
and
relation
team
to
look
at.
N
I've
started
engagement
and
communication
with
the
neighbourhood,
policing
teams
and
the
inspectors
and
getting
that
information.
So
it's
very
much
on
my
radar
and
and
it's
something
that
we'll
be
pursuing
over
the
next
few
weeks
and
months
in
relation
to
that
engagement
and
improving
that
communication
with
neighborhood
policing
teams.
Okay,
thank.
E
Thank
you
chair
thanks
very
much
yep
lovely
presentation
appreciate
the
time
and
effort
everybody's
put
into
it.
My
first
question
is
regarding
the
new
structure.
I
know
that
you
said
that
you
spoke
to
the
staff
and,
and
everybody
was
really
happy
with
it,
etc.
Just
wondered
if
you
revisited
that.
Are
they
they
happy
now
that
they've
settled
back
into
the
structure?
Is
it
going?
Well?
Is
staff
retention
improving
because
we
all
know
that
the
cost
of
recruitment
is
extremely
high?
E
My
second
question
is
the
reporting
for
elected
members.
You
did
briefly
touch
on
that
and
I
noticed
in
my
recent
west
community
committee
papers.
We
did
see
a
small
breakdown,
but
it
wasn't
very
usable
it.
You
know
it
wasn't.
It
wasn't
pertinent
to
what
we
needed
it
kind
of
covered
the
whole
area
and
didn't
tell
us
anything
at
all.
E
Given
that
you
know
we
pay
a
chunk
of
money
from
our
outer
west
community
committee,
as
I'm
guessing
all
committees.
Do
you
know
we'd
like
to
see
some
some
value
for
money
with
that?
Please
and
then
my
third
point
was
the
partnership
workings.
So
you
know
I
consider
elected
members
as
a
partnership.
The
police
is
a
partnership
and
various
neighborhood
community
areas
and
things
so
I'd
like
to
see
a
little
bit
more
of
that.
Please
thank
you.
N
Thank
you
chair,
so
in
in
relation
to
the.
If
I
take
the
last
question.
First
in
terms
of
the
area
update,
we're
happy
to
work
with
members
and
look
at
how
we
can
improve
that
and
what
further
detail
members
would
like
to
see
in
those
reports
and
and
again
I'll
I'll
kind
of
pass
that
to
my
performance
and
relationship
team
to
get
in
touch
with
members
across
the
city
and
look
at
how
we
can
improve
that
and
what
further
details
members
would
like
to
see.
N
N
In
in
terms
of
revisiting
staff
and
engaging
with
staff,
that's
an
ongoing
process.
We
are
looking
at
how
we
can
engage
in
a
more
meaningful
way,
with
the
timing,
wise
we're
coming
up
to
the
six-month
kind
of
milestone
in
relation
to
that
and
liz
and
I've
been
discussing
how
we
can
engage
with
staff
in
a
more
meaningful
way
around
how
things
have
improved
and
where
areas
need
to
be
further
looked
at.
But
I
do
engage
with
staff
on
a
weekly
basis
on
a
daily
basis.
E
And
just
to
add,
in
terms
of
the
partnership
approach,
of
course,
we
we
work
with
a
whole
range
of
services,
not
least
not
just
west
yorkshire
police.
We
work
with
environmental
services,
we
work
with
these
more
or
less
every
every
section
of
the
council
that
we
we
touch
with
with
our
service
touches
base
within
one
way
or
another,
but
I
think
that
one
of
the
things
well,
I
know
that
one
of
the
things
that
we
want
to
do-
and
another
council
harlan's
particularly
supportive,
is
how
we
work
with
our
community
safety
champions.
E
Champions
having
a
really
key
and
major
role
to
play
around
how
we
and
not
just
use
our
cctv,
but
things
like
the
performance
information.
How
do
we?
You
know,
make
sure
that
those
reports
that
we
give
you
are
actually
giving
you
some
meaningful
information
and
providing
you
with,
as
you
say,
counselor
smith,
the
value
for
money.
You
feel
that
you're
getting
you
know
good,
a
good
bang
for
your
buck.
C
Future
just
to
touch
on
what
council
smith's
already
mentioned
the
reports
we
used
to
get
reports
roughly
about
once
a
month.
I
think
it
was
and
it
was
to
do
with
with
our
particular
world
and
that's
really
what
counselors
want
if
it
was
thought.
As
again
girls
smith
said
a
few
lines
mentioned
in
the
community
committee
report.
C
Well,
the
fact
is,
the
community
committee
covers
three
words.
Really
we
want
to
see
about
our
world.
In
my
particular
world,
we've
formed
two
cameras
and
they've
picked
up
quite
quite
a
few
things
over
the
years.
We've
had
them
and
that's
what
I
used
to
get
information
on.
I
haven't
had
anything
for
for
ages,
so
I
think
if
we
could
go
back
to
more
what
we
used
to
do
and
have
them
about
once
a
month,
that'd
be
useful.
C
C
I
know
that
that
our
area
was
one
that
that
started
to
fund
the
motorbike
patrols
before
it
was
done.
City-Wide
the
city
took
it
over
and
just
took
over
the
payment
for
it
city-wide,
but
then,
of
course
you
you
didn't
get
as
many
visits,
but
I
want
to
know
how
often
they
do
visit
the
the
parks.
I
know
we've
got
a
lot
of
perhaps,
or
does
it
just
come
out
if
they
get
reports
about
some
problem
on
the
path.
N
Thank
you
chair.
We
we
pretty
much
visit
all
the
packs
on
a
daily
basis
across
the
city,
where
we've
got
specific
intelligence,
we'll
undertake
intelligence-led
tasking
and
intelligence-led
patrols,
where
we've
got
reports
of
anti-social
behavior,
for
example,
in
a
particular
park,
and
that
will
feature
within
our
patrols,
but,
generally
speaking
across
the
across
the
daily
24-hour
tasking,
we
visit
all
the
parks
across
the
city
within
those
patrols.
Again
in
terms
of
the
the
reporting
chair,
we're
happy
to
pick
up
the
reporting
and
look
at
how
we
can
we
can
improve
those.
Thank
you.
B
C
Yes,
just
to
come
back,
though
you
say
you
visit
all
the
parks
dailies.
How
many
times
is
it
once
twice
and
again,
I'd
like
to
know,
are
you
still
using
the
motorbikes
or
not
because
the
motorbikes
were
were
great?
Obviously,
if
they
see
something
going
on
that,
you
know
they
can
quickly
get
around
areas
you
you
can't
be
driving
round
a
park
on
in
a
car,
or
at
least
you
shouldn't
be
doing
it.
N
Thank
you
chair.
We
we
don't
have
any
motorbikes
anymore.
Unfortunately,
we
do
engage
with
best
yorkshire
police
who
do
have
motorbikes
and
we'll
work
with
with
those
officers.
Generally
speaking,
in
terms
of
the
the
visits
to
parks,
we
will
we'll
visit
on
on
a
regular
basis.
The
the
larger
parks
will
get
more
than
one
visit,
but,
generally
speaking,
most
parts
get
one
visit
on
a
daily
basis.
K
Thank
you,
chair.
I've
had
a
couple
of
incidents
in
my
ward,
where
residents
have
reported
incidents
within
the
vicinity
of
cctv
cameras,
they
reported
to
the
police
and
an
assumption
that
it
would
be
relatively
straightforward
to
get
the
recordings,
get
the
evidence
and
you
know,
find
the
perpetrators
ultimately,
and
I
think
this
relates
to
the
the
point
that
council
richie
made
earlier.
Is
there
a
disconnect
in
working
with
partnerships?
Are
the
gdpr
problems
getting
hold
of
the
evidence
on
occasions?
K
N
Thank
you
chair.
So
in
relation
to
gdpr
the
prevention
detection
of
crime
overrides
gdpr,
we've
got
a
good
working
relationship
with
west
yorkshire,
police
and
police
officers
and
on
a
daily
basis,
we're
providing
evidence
and
and
footage
to
to
officers.
I
think
council
reaches
hit
the
nail
on
the
head
in
relation
to
some
officers,
not
understanding
what
the
cctv
is
or
the
fact
they've
got
cctv
there
that's
public
space
in
relation
to
lee's
watch
and
it's
very
much
around
picking
that
up
with
those
officers.
We
provide
footage
on
a
daily
basis.
N
N
So
there
is
a
a
role
there
for
that
officer
to
engage
with
those
new
officers
that
are
coming
into
the
neighborhood
policing
teams
and
making
sure
that
they
understand
what
cctv
they
have
in
their
neighborhood
and
how
to
get
the
footage
and-
and
I
feel
some
of
those
those
requests
that
come
in
by
our
email
as
well.
Where
there's
farms
on
the
west,
yorkshire,
police
internet,
that
officers
can
use
to
to
contact
us
and
engage
with
us
around
that.
N
C
B
Any
other
questions,
so
the
only
point
I'd
make
is
one
thing
I'd
like
to
see.
Is
you
publicizing
the
good
work
that
you
are
doing
and
the
areas
that
you're
covering,
because
I
think
a
lot
of
members
probably
aren't
aware
of
the
breadth
of
what
you're
doing
and
the
other
thing
is
a
little
nitpick.
It
was
pointed
out
by
one
of
the
members,
not
by
me
who
read
the
papers
that
the
telephone
number
that's
been
quoted
on
page
27
or
pa
or
page
one
of
the
appendix
is
wrong.
I
think
you've
got
an
extra.
B
We
think
you've
got
an
extra
one
in
the
number
at
the
bottom.
We
think
you've
got
an
extra
one,
so
if
it
is,
can
you
reissue
a
contact
number
so
that
elected
members
can
get
in
touch
with
you?
Because
you
never
know
when
we
need
to
get
in
touch
with
your
service,
and
if
you
can
do
a
brief,
a4
page
setting
out
all
the
work
that
you
do
do
and
how
it's
best
to
get
in
touch
with
you,
then
we
can
all
work
in
partnership
better.
B
In
that
case,
thank
you
very
much
for
coming
along
today
and
you
know
to
explain
how
you
have
modernized
the
service
and
brought
it
up
and
used.
The
the
pandemic
is
a
period
of
where
you've
been
able
to
reflect
back
and
you've
come
out
stronger
at
the
other
end.
So
thank
you
very
much
for
your
time
and
effort.
Thank
you.
B
B
H
Okay,
thank
you
chair
and
try
to
just
move
on.
Okay
thanks.
So
today
we're
looking
at
both
the
exec
board
report
and
the
seac
report
that
will
go
to
full
council
next
month.
Becky,
I
feel
like
chris
whittie
and
so
just
thought.
We'd
just
give
some
of
the
highlights
that
have
happened
last
year.
So
we
have
the
district
heating,
which
has
expanded
substantially
so
within
our
own
estate,
but
also
within
the
public
sector
estate.
H
H
We've
had
something
like
330
000
miles,
driven
through
our
electric
van
scheme
and
numerous
trees
planted
across
our
own
estate
and
then
also
the
retrofitting
of
public
housing,
I'm
kind
of
going
fairly
quickly,
because
I
am
really
conscious
of
time
becky
and
I
think
it's
really
important
in
all
of
this.
So
one
of
the
questions
often
is
about.
Actually
how
much
does
all
of
this
cost?
H
You
know
there's
some
really
big
figures
put
against
the
retrofitting
of
housing
to
actually
have
a
moment
just
to
reflect
on
the
cost
of
not
doing
it,
and
that
quote
across
the
top,
which
I
won't
read
out
and,
for
some
reason,
is
not
displaying
very
well
on.
The
screen
is
actually
from
the
current
treasury
about
the
costs
of
not
taking
action
and
actually
what
the
long-term
impact
of
that
will
be.
H
But
in
europe
as
well,
where
we
saw
huge
kind
of
loss
of
life
as
well
as
economic
impact,
and
I
think
you
know
for
all
of
us.
We
just
need
to
consider
that,
when
we're
looking
at
some
of
the
things
we're
we're,
proposing
and
and
one
of
the
big
changes
with
that
report
was,
that
is
now
the
focus
on
adaptation
and
resilience,
because
I
think
you
know
it
is
inevitable
that
we
are
going
to
start
to
see
more
consequences
and
we
also
need
to
be
prepared.
H
Another
key
part
of
the
zed
board
report
was
the
energy
strategy
and
looking
similar
to
things
like
the
waste
hierarchy,
where
you
know
you
work
down
and
you
reduce
your
energy
first,
you
make
buildings
more
efficient
and
then,
when
you
can't
do
any
more
of
that,
you
you
supply
it
through
renewables
and
ultimately,
also
looking
at.
You
know
how
we
buy
our
current
electricity
contract.
H
And
so
the
report
sets
out
that
we're
looking
to
change
the
way
we
buy
our
electricity.
So
looking
at
moving
to
a
power
purchase
agreement,
which
basically
means
we
make
a
longer-term
commitment
to
invest
in
green
electricity
and
we
enable
a
new
infrastructure
to
be
built,
but
it
kind
of
it
lowers
the
risk
direct
risk
to
the
council
rather
than
us
doing
our
own
renewable
projects.
However,
we
are
also
looking
to
increase
our
investment
in
local
renewables
up
to
10.
H
If,
if
we're
not
building
something
to
net
zero,
actually,
what
is
the
longer
term
consequence
of
that,
and
often
that
you
know
to
retrofit?
Something
is
far
more
expensive
than
doing
it
right
in
the
first
place,
so
the
other
big
change,
as
well
as
the
focus
on
adaptation
in
the
exec
board
report
this
year
was
also
the
focus
on
scopes,
re-emissions
and
actually
starting
to
look
at
the
consumption
emissions
of
the
council
and
how
we
can
really
drive
change
in
that,
and
it's
estimated
that
that
can
represent
kind
of
80.
H
I
think
it's
87
to
sort
of
90
of
an
organization's
emissions,
and
it's
often
you
know
people
focus
really
heavily
on
scope,
1
and
2,
which
is
right.
It's
where
you've
got
the
real
direct
control
and
but
I
think,
we've
recognized
that
we
need
to
be
looking
at
scope
3
in
parallel.
So
this
year
we've
really
focused
on
food.
H
We've
made
some
really
significant
commitments
about
they're
up
on
the
screen
about
buying
local,
serving
local,
reducing
their
carbon
of
our
meals
by
2030
and
and
we're
going
to
bring
that
back
to
executive
board
in
in
the
form
of
a
food
strategy
which
won't
just
look
at
the
carbon,
but
we'll
work
across
all
kind
of
agendas
in
terms
of
health
and
well-being,
food,
poverty,
the
food
economy.
So
we're
doing
trying
to
do
that
in
a
really
kind
of
whole
council
approach.
H
So
in
terms
of
housing,
we've
had
numerous
different
funds,
which
I
won't
list,
but
looking
at
private
sector
housing
as
well
as
social
housing,
really
trying
to
kind
of
upgrade
those
homes
often
come
in
with
really
challenging
criteria.
So
I'm
sure
people
will
have
heard
me
say
before
trying
to
find
a
homeowner
that
owns
less
as
a
household
than
30.
H
000
is
pretty
challenging
then
trying
to
find
not
only
that,
but
a
householder
who
has
an
epc
of
e
or
below
is
near
on
impossible,
and
so
we've
been
really
successful
in
getting
the
grant
funding,
but
they
have
been
really
really
challenging
to
deliver.
We
continue
to
work
with
government
in
terms
of
some
of
those
criteria
in
terms
of
things
like
the
pas
2035
standard,
which
has
increased
some
of
the
costs
that
we
incur,
and
but,
despite
that,
you
know,
I've
listed
there.
H
Some
of
the
projects
and
some
of
the
level
of
funding
we've
managed
to
secure,
and
I
think,
since
the
exec
board
report
went
in,
we
also
found
out
we've
secured
just
under
another
10
million,
to
support
our
own
social
housing
and
transports.
In
here
I
mean
fundamentally,
transport
is
dealt
with
within
the
transport
strategy,
but
as
part
of
the
sort
of
climate
change
report.
H
So,
as
I've
mentioned,
there's
a
number
of
other
policies
that
are
up
and
coming
so
the
better
homes,
net
zero
strategy,
but
also
the
food
strategy.
The
adaptation
and
resilience
plan.
The
future
talent
plan,
local
plan
update
and
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
make
sure
one's
where
my
team
aren't
directly
delivering
that
we
have
that
interconnection
and
we're
making
sure
the
climate
is
at
the
center
of
them
and
and
then
the
business
side
of
it.
H
That's
going
on
in
the
city,
because,
obviously
we
are
looking
at
a
whole
city
approach,
not
just
the
the
council
and
then
last
but
not
least,
the
full
council
report
that's
going
next
month
just
gives
a
summary
in
terms
of
all
the
work
that
ciac
have
done.
All
the
topics
that
have
been
covered
so
ranging
from
funding
to
green
jobs
and
skills,
climate
education,
how
we
communicate
and
engage
with
communities
and-
and
then
it
also
has
a
number
of
working
groups,
just
gone
to
the
next
slide.
H
Becky
and
I'm
just
talking
about
the
benefits
of
the
working
group,
just
really
trying
to
allow
members
to
go
into
certain
issues
in
a
lot
more
detail
and
enabling
them
to
act
as
advocates
in
all
the
different
committees
and
work
that
they
do
and
but
also
allowing
for
that
kind
of
cross.
That
check
challenge
of
all
the
different
policies
and
things
that
are
happening
and
also
feeding
into
kind
of
cross-party
lobbying
strategies.
H
And
then
I
think
the
last
slide
just
lists
kind
of
the
four
different
working
groups
which
are
food
and
biodiversity
planning,
energy
and
buildings,
transport
and
behaviour,
change
and
finance.
It
just
gives
a
bit
of
a
summary
in
terms
of
what
each
of
those
delivered
over
the
last
year
and
I'll
leave
it.
There.
B
K
K
The
targets
are
very
to
me,
appear
very
challenging,
and
the
strategy
for
meeting
those
targets
is
certainly
in
the
bullet
points.
I
would
say
rather
vague
and
based
on
a
lot
of
encouraging
and,
I
suppose,
the
key
ones
being
around
efficiency
of
transport
network
and
reducing
the
need
for
travel.
For
me,
it's
also
exemplified
by
the
the
problem.
K
E
A
E
Sorry
for
interrupting
I'd
also
like
to
know
what
the
base
figure
is,
because
you
said
you
want
to
increase
by
a
percentage.
So
what
what
was
the
base
that
you
want
to
increase
from?
Is
that
pre
or
post
pandemic?
Is
it?
How
far
back?
Does
it
go,
because
that
I
think
that's
very
pertinent
as
well?
Thank
you.
L
Yes,
in
terms
of
the
transport
strategy,
the
baseline
was
pretty
pandemic
and
in
terms
of
increasing
bus
use
in
terms
of
increasing
cycling
and
and
those
sorts
of
things.
Obviously,
the
world
has
changed
on
its
head
and
we
are,
you
know.
Accounts
officers
such
as
paul
foster,
are
working
very
hard
at
new
kind
of
modeling,
and
I
know
that
the
bus
companies
are
as
well
and
the
bus
companies
are
facing
real
real
challenges
in
terms
of
around
funding
and
patronage.
L
Although
in
west
yorkshire
we
are
at
eighty
one
percent
of
pre-transparent
levels
in
terms
of
we're
an
outlier
in
the
country
in
terms
of
people
getting
back
on
the
bus
and
when
I've
been
using
it-
and
it's
only
my
anecdotal
evidence,
they
can
get
very,
very
busy
which
is
good
to
see.
However,
the
patterns
have
changed,
and
council
groves
is
much
better
at
answering
these
questions
than
than
I
am
with
her
west
yorkshire
view.
But
the
patterns
have
changed
so
the
morning
rush
hour.
L
If
you
want
to
call
it
that
the
morning
peak
is
not
what
it
was
at
all,
but
the
evening
peak
is
back
to
pre
pre-pandemic
levels.
So
people
are
going
to
work
they're
not
going
as
often
they're
they're
working
from
home,
a
lot
more
than
they
used
to
and
they're
going
in
later
and
maybe
going
in
for
maybe
10
11
o'clock
or
and
it's
staggering.
L
The
day
is
not
the
traditional
nine
till
five
and
we're
seeing
so
all
that
muddling
will
will
feed
in
and
once
the
world
settles
down
again
and
and
everything
settles
down
and
we'll
see
what
the
long-term
modeling
is
of
that.
But
we
are
working
very
hard
with
the
bus
companies
in
particular,
in
order
to
make
it
as
easy
for
and
as
feasible
for
people
to
get
on
the
bus
as
possible.
L
So
obviously,
the
bus
companies
have
got
some
real
challenges
on
their
hands
in
terms
of
the
transport
strategy
and
and
the
kind
of
we
brought
the
transport
strategy
itself
back
in
the
autumn,
to
exec
board
and
then
to
full
council
and
how
it
fits
in
with
it's
all
about
leaders
of
city.
Where
you
don't
need
a
car
we're
not
necessarily
wanting
people
to
switch
cars,
we
want
it
to
be
a
place
where
you
don't
need
to
have
a
car,
be
it
electric
or
diesel
or
or
whatever.
L
So
I
don't
know
what
the
alternative
is,
but
too
like
electric
or
petrol
diesel,
but
we're
wanting
it
to
place
where
you
don't
need
a
car
so
that
active,
travel,
walking
and
cycling
are
much
more
attractive
and
and
then
kind
of
walk.
It
rider
campaigns
that
we
did
in
the
summer
in
kind
of
chapel,
art
and
chapel
town
areas.
Very
successful
in
terms
of
you
know,
encouraging
people
to
use
the
bus
small
to
use,
but
we
have
to
get
buses
much
more
efficient.
L
We
have
to
make
it
safe
and
sustainable
for
people
to
cycle,
and
if
people
don't
feel
like
it's
it
then
and
normalizing
that
is,
is
normalizing
cycling.
It's
going
to
be
a
real
real
challenge.
So
that's
why
all
the
cycle
lanes
that
you
know
people
will
notice
in
connecting
through
these
and
it's
called
connecting
leads
and
so
that
you
can
travel
across
the
city
center
east
to
west
north
to
south
safely
on
a
cycle
and
it's
much
more
pleasant
place
to
to
walk
as
well.
So
all
these
things
are
happening.
L
It
might
seem
a
bit,
but
the
transport
strategy
itself
is
much
more
in
terms
of
focus
on
its
actual
wanting
to
increase
and
its
statistics
and
its
ambitions.
It
is
ambitious
for
some
people,
it's
a
bit
too
ambitious
for
some
people.
It's
not
ambitious
enough,
but
for
70
of
the
of
the
the
people
who
took
part
in
the
consultation
around
leeds,
it
was
the
right
direction
of
travel
to
use
upon
that.
L
H
So,
in
terms
of
the
charging
strategy
today
it
has,
I
suppose,
it's
been
in
some
senses
piecemeal,
because
we've
been
responding
to
grant.
I
think
what
this
year
does
is
turn
that
around
and
actually
allow
us
to
start
planning
out
the
city
and
we've
actually
been
working
with
government
on
some
geospatial
work
that
they're
doing
around
electric
charging
as
one
of
their
pilot
cities
and
looking
at
how
we
get
kind
of
comprehensive
spread.
H
But
some
of
it
is
also
around
that
kind
of
comms
and
engagement,
because
I
think
people
still
think
of
electric
vehicles
a
bit
like
their
mobile
phone,
where
they're
charging
it
every
day
and
actually
what
we're
looking
at
is
something
where
you're
charging
it,
maybe
once
a
week
twice
twice,
even
once
a
fortnight,
depending
on
the
mileage
that
the
average
person
does
so
within
the
electric
vehicle
charging
strategy
document.
At
the
end,
it
sets
out
actually
what
the
average
mileage
people
do.
H
What
the
range
of
vehicles
is
and
kind
of
what
the
assumptions
are
in
terms
of
what
level
of
charging
we
need.
You
know
most
people
are
doing
relatively
low
mileage
still.
So
I
think
the
way
that
we're
moving
in
terms
of
private
investment
will
start
to
get
us
away
from
piecemeal
and
will
give
us
more
of
a
strategic
overview,
and
I
think
the
council's
role
moves
away
from
grant
deliverer
to
kind
of
facilitator
and
enabler.
And
so
for
me,
this
year
is
kind
of
the
real
next
step
in
terms
of
charging
infrastructure.
B
Okay,
now
I'm
conscious
that
it's
coming
up
to
ten
two
when
certainly
one
of
them
is
the
essence
of
either
of
the
people.
I've
got
council,
collins,
council,
blackburn
and
council
childhood.
Are
they
specifically
for
the
exec
member
or
can
they
be
answered
by
other
members
right,
that's
right!
So
it's
just
so
that
you
can.
You
can
slip
out
without
that.
That's
that's
why!
So
in
that
case,
then
we've
got
christopher
collins,
council
blackboard
and
then
council
charlewood.
E
Thank
you
just
with
the
electric
charging,
just
as
a
side
thing.
Some
of
us
have
got
hybrids,
so
we
do
need
to
charge
them
every
day.
So
just
wanting
to
remind
people
about
that,
but
my
question
was
regarding
the
the
warm
air
from
the
roof
that
the
final
after
it's
been
through
the
district
heating
system.
E
H
H
I
suppose
we
can
decide
what
level
of
risk
we
want
to
take
as
a
council
in
that,
and
but
we
can
act
again
as
an
enabler
in
terms
of
the
kind
providing
the
anchor
demand
in
terms
of
food
through
our
school
meals.
Supporting
that
connection
to
the
district
heat
network,
potentially
with
with
the
land
that's
been
identified,
and
so
I
think
we've
our
role
is
yet
to
be
determined.
I
think
it's
more
about
the
fact
that
we
want
to
be
able
to
do
that.
L
Thank
you.
Sorry
can
I
just
come
in
on
that
really
quickly,
because
I
think
this
is
really
exciting
and
people
might
be
cynical
about
the
cup
flowers.
In
fact,
our
off
we
do
have
many
officers
working
at
the
area
and
and
things
that
actually
do
grow
flowers.
You
know
so
and
do
grow
plants
and
are
growing
our
trees
at
the
moment,
which
is
amazing
in
terms
of
I'd
love
it
to
be
in
bean
cut
flowers,
and
why
would
you
grow
that?
L
But
actually
the
carbon
footprint
of
a
bunch
of
cup
flowers
is
huge
because
we
tend
to
be
grown
in
in
kenya
or
somewhere
like
that,
so
and
so
it,
but
people
still
want
to
buy
cut
flowers,
and
why
not?
You
know
you
know
the
advice
is
to
buy
a
plant,
but
you
know
my
mother
will
look
at
me
on
mother's
day
and
say:
thanks
ellen.
You
know
if
I
turn
it
with
a
plan,
so
it's
yeah,
there's
still
always
going
to
be
that
demand
for
cut
flowers.
L
C
C
How
many
of
those
councils
are
trying
to
cut
down
their
car
use?
Now
I've
been
on
one
of
these
groups.
I've
never
had
a
car.
I
can't
drive
so
there's
one
there,
but
the
the
others.
We
want
to
try
and
get
more
people
on
buses.
I'm
pleased
that
the
general
public
have
now
started
going
back
to
using
buses.
A
lot
of
it
will
be
because
they've
got
to
go
into
work
now
more
than
working
at
home.
C
So
I
think
I'd
like
to
know
what
those
counsellors
are
going
to
do,
because
I
know
quite
a
lot
of
counselors
are
attached
to
the
car
or
whether
no
matter
what
type
of
car
it
is
and
whether
it's
more
environmentally
friendly
or
not.
So
I'd
just
like
to
know
that
the
the
second
question
is
to
do
with
flooding.
C
But
again
it's
a
matter
of
funding
so
when
and
if
that
rather
happened,
I
don't
know,
but
I
would
like
to
see
the
council
doing
more
work
on
gullies
because
on
the
main
road
places
on
the
ring
road,
you
have
all
the
gullies
and
an
off
on
the
round
shoulder
and
they
do
get
blocked
up
and
sometimes
it's
mud.
So
you
can't
just
do
it
with
your
bully
machine.
C
B
O
O
In
terms
of
speaking
myself
as
chair
we've
as
a
family
genuinely
tried
to
cut
down
our
carbon
footprint,
I
drive
a
very
old
car,
but
it
is
powered
by
lpg,
so
it
is
certainly
there's
less
emissions
and
a
lot
of
cars.
But
I
think
the
question
actually
highlights
a
real,
significant
issue
in
that
for
people
wanting
to
do
the
right
thing.
O
So
we
have
to
think
about
what
people
on
average
incomes,
families
on
average
incomes
are
going
to
be
able
to
do
in
that
respect,
and
that's
a
certainly
a
bigger
question
than
we
can
answer
at
this
council.
But
I
think
councillors
should
try
to
lead
by
example
to
a
certain
extent,
but
also
that
we
need
to
be
leading
that
change
and
and
making
changes
across
the
city
ourselves
in
in
in
our
policy
work.
You've
seen
the
breadth
and
depth
of
what
we're
doing
justin
castle
blackburn
mentioned.
O
We
do
need
to
get
more
people
on
buses.
We
do,
and
I
think,
what's
really
important
is
the
progress
that
we're
starting
to
make.
I
know
on
a
wider
level
on
the
structural
problems
facing
the
bus
system
in
this.
In
this
city
and
across
the
country
I
mean
look,
let's,
let's
be
very
clear
privatized,
deregulated
buses
have
failed
entirely
nothing's
been
given
a
fair
crack
of
the
whip
and
nothing
has
failed
as
miserably
as
privatized
and
deregulated
buses.
O
O
C
Sorry
chair
to
labor
this,
but
I
did
when
I
asked
about
what
counselors
on
ciac
were
doing.
I
did
perhaps
I
should
have
said
more
blatantly
how
many
of
them
use
the
bus.
I'm
not
talking
about
us.
Yes
saying
we
want
more
people
to
use
buses,
but
ulcers
councils
should
also
be
using
buses,
and
I
know
not
many
do
and
never
have
done
so
question.
B
Coming
from,
I
know
where
you're
coming
from,
and
but
we
cannot
go
for
compulsion
that
you're
not
going
to
get
buy-in
to
the
public
over
climate
change.
If
you
start
compelling
people,
you've
got
to
do
it
to
volunteer
to
do
it
rather
than
compel-
and
it's
very
it
it's
fine
if
you've
got
access
to
public
transport
in
your
area,
but
not
all
wards
have
access
to
public
transport.
B
B
I
had
to
walk
from
my
house
in
cook
ridge
down
to
adel,
and
I
had
to
bring
a
whole
lot
of
stuff
with
me.
My
back
now,
fine,
I
am
my
age.
I
am
not
built
for
speed
in
any
shape
or
form
so
with
a
whole
raft
of
other
things.
I
need
to
change
my
diet,
so
I
can
build
up.
So
it's
not
just
overnight
giving
up
my
car
and
going
walking
and
also
the
cost
of
public
transport.
Something's
got
to
be
done,
and
wall
street
is
quite
right.
B
We've
got
to
get
it
right
at
the
wyka
level
in
terms
of
the
costs
to
make
it
worthwhile
people
doing
it
an
example.
The
other
day
we
were
talking
at
one
of
councillor,
walsh's
committees
about
the
electric
bikes.
There
is
a
possibility
of
charging
roughly
10
pence
for
every
10
minutes.
I
think
that
was
it
yeah,
which
would
have
meant
it
was
more
expensive
for
me
to
go
by
electric
bike
than
it
is
to
go,
buy
public
transport,
and
it
shouldn't
be
that
I
mean-
and
we
all
agreed
that
that
was
the
thing.
B
So
we've
got
to
look
at
the
cost
indicators,
because
council
wall
show
is
correct.
There
are
a
lot
of
people
out
there
who
are
struggling
and
cannot
necessarily
incur
the
costs
and
we
don't
all
qualify
for
bus
passes
or
anything
like
that.
Yet
so
it
makes
it
very.
Very
you
know
it.
I
know
where
you're
coming
from,
but
we
shouldn't
embarrass
counselors,
who
don't
necessarily
want
to
do
it.
Yeah.
B
C
C
B
C
O
Chair,
if
I
may,
I
actually
very
much
agree
with
council.
Graham,
I
think
it's
really
quite
unreasonable
line
of
questioning
from
council
blackburn.
I
just
want
to
put
it
on
record
that
I
really
hope
that
ciac
members
would
try
to
live
by
the
example,
but
we're
also
not
instigating
some
stasi-esque
star
chamber
and
asking
them
what
their
travel
habits
are.
So
that
could
be
miniature.
That
would
be
great
next
question.
Yeah.
E
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
So,
just
moving
on
I'm
not
going
to
talk
about
my
travel
habits
and
I
just
want
to
know.
Are
we
going
to
diversify
our
car
power
thought
sources
of
the
city
by
getting
a
hydrogen
pump
as
well
as
because
not
everyone
wants
to
drive
a
electric
car
and
in
the
future
there
might
be
a
lot
of
hydrogen
fuel
cards
as
long
as
it's
green
hydrogen
and
we
do
have
them
in
yorkshire.
E
B
H
Actually,
who
would
want
hydrogen
within
the
city
where
we
could
locate
it
and
working
through
that
as
a
feasibility
study
and
a
lot
of
the
ones
that
already
exist
are
very,
very
small
scale,
and
so
what
we'd
be
looking
to
do
is
try
and
now
get
that
onto
more
of
a
commercial
scale,
so
that
work
is
underway.
But
I
think
yeah
you're
right.
We
can't
just
rely
on
electric,
I
don't
think
for
the
whole
fleet.
It
will
be
challenging.
B
And
I
think
I
mean
I
do
agree.
I
think
hydrogen
is
potentially
the
way
the
way
forward,
but
again,
as
paulie
says,
I
think
it's
maybe
need
to
look
at
larger
industrial
sites
at
the
moment,
because
there
are
yeah
yeah.
Oh,
I
do
think
and
to
be
to
be
honest.
The
council
a
few
years
ago,
were
well
at
the
forefront
of
that
they
were
working
closely
with
ngn
and
to
the
best
of
my
knowledge
they
still
are.
B
I
mean
I'm
not
saying
that
they
stopped,
but
I
think
the
council
had
grasped
that
nettle
a
few
years
ago
and
are
working
very
very
closely
on
that.
So
with
that
said,
thank
you
very
much.
We
will
have
no
doubt
have
a
wonderful
debate
when
it
comes
to
council.
The
next
time
on
all
sides
we'll
be
having
some
wonderful
debates,
because
seac
itself
is
actually
full
of
different
views.
That
people
are
expressing
and
some
people
agree
with
them
and
some
people
don't
agree
with
them,
but
that's
the
whole
nature
of
it.
B
So,
thank
you
both
very
much
and
thank
you
paulie,
for
you
know
the
hours
that
you've
put
in
in
the
last
day
or
so
to
get
to
where
we
are
today.
It
is
much
appreciated.
Thank
you.
So
that
said
then,
on
to
the
work
schedule.
So
as
far
as
appendix
three
is
concerned,
the
tree
maintenance
working
group
are
we
happy
to
approve
the
note,
that's
been
presented
for
us
there
and
in
terms
of
appendix
4
the
housing
strategy
review.
Are
we
happy
to
agree
the
wording
of
the
document?
That's
been
prepared
there
as
well.