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A
Meeting
of
the
children
and
family
scrutiny
board,
the
meeting
is
being
webcast
on
the
council's
website
so
that
any
interesting
members
of
the
public
that
are
unable
to
observe
in
person
can
still
observe
remotely
to
begin
with,
I'm
going
to
invite
everyone
to
introduce
themselves
my
name's
counter
alan
lam.
I
represent
the
weatherby
ward
and
I'm
the
chair
of
this
scrutiny
board.
So
I
will
go
around
to
my
right.
F
E
K
So
I'm
eating
a
biscuit,
they're
lovely!
Thank
you.
It's
really
lovely
to
be
in
everyone's
physical
presence.
I'm
counselor,
fiona
mana,
I'm
the
cabinet
member
for
children,
adult
social
care
early
years
and
health
partnerships.
A
Well,
welcome
to
everybody.
You'll
have
observed
for
those
in
the
room
that
the
cameras
are
not
working
properly
to
the
relief
of
all
of
us
and
the
millions
watching,
undoubtedly
at
home.
It
means
there's
no
close-ups
today,
so
so
everyone
can
breathe
a
big
sigh
of
relief.
A
So
if
I
can
ask
harriet,
please
take
us
through
the
first
five
items
of
business
on
the
agenda.
H
Thank
you,
chad,
under
agenda
item
number
one.
There
are
no
appeals
against
the
refusal
of
inspection
of
documents
and
agenda
item
number
two.
There
are
no
items
for
exclusion
for
pressing
public
today
under
agenda
item
number
three:
there
are
no
late
items
of
business
and
under
agenda
item
number
four.
Please
can
I
invite
to
board
members
to
declare
any
interests
today?
H
Okay,
I'll,
take
that
thank
you
and
under
agenda
item
number
five
chair:
we've
received:
apologies
from
councillors,
marshall,
katung,
councillor,
hussein,
councillor
bethel
and
councillor
lay,
and
we
have
councillor
douse
and
councillor
ray
and
councillor
brooks
attending
a
substitute
today
and
we've
also
received
apologies
from
laura
whittaker.
Our
young
lives
leads
representative
and
kate
blacker,
parent,
governor
representative.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you,
harriet,
and
a
warm
welcome,
and
thanks
to
to
those
members
that
are
substituting
today
are
very
welcome
to
the
board.
So
we
move
on
to
item
six,
which
is
the
minutes
of
our
previous
meetings.
So,
first
of
all,
if
we
can
confirm
that
the
meeting
on
the
8th
of
september
is
a
correct
record
of
that
meeting,
there's
present
I'm
seeing
nods
and
no
dissenters.
A
No,
so
then
we
also
have
our
consultative
meeting,
which
is
held
on
the
15th
of
september.
Are
we
happy
that
that's
an
accurate
record
any
matters
arising
from
those
minutes?
Please.
A
No
splendid,
okay,
so
we
can
move
then
on
to
item
seven,
which
is
our
first
substantive
item,
which
is
the
leeds
youth
justice
plan
2021
to
2024..
We've
got
councillor
prior
councillor,
venna,
sal
and
ruth.
So
I
don't
know
who
wants
to
start
off
councillor
venna?
Is
it.
K
Yeah,
I'm
happy
to
start
off.
I
sit
on
the
partnership
board
that
oversees
the
youth
justice
service.
So
I'm
really
happy
to
make
some
introductory
comments
and
then
sam
ruth
might
want
to
add
to
them.
So
it's
a
statutory
requirement
that
we
have
a
youth
justice
plan.
So
that's
why
it's
it's
coming
here.
K
I
suppose
I'm
I'm
really
happy
to
answer
any
questions
rather
than
make
make
specific
comments
about
the
plan.
The
only
thing
I'd
like
to
try
attention
to
is
a
really
interesting
piece
of
work
that
we
did
last
year,
where
hmip
did
an
inspection
around
the
country,
not
not
not
a
kind
of
formal
inspection,
but
they
did
a.
K
They
did
a
look
at
disproportionality
around
the
country
in
relation
to
the
fact
that,
in
the
youth
justice
service,
you've
got
a
disproportionate
number
of
black
and
dual
heritage,
boys
and
young
men,
which
is
the
same
in
the
adult
in
an
adult
prison,
and
they
went
to
a
number
of
youth
justice
services
to
look
at
how
people
were
addressing
that
and
they
came
to
lead.
As
part
of
that,
we
got
really
really
good
feedback
on
what
we're
doing,
and
I
think
when
they
write
their
final
report
leads,
will
will
feature
very
positively
in
it.
K
We
have
a
disproportionate
number
of
romanian
young
people
in
our
youth
justice
service,
but
where
we
do
have
disproportionality,
which
we
we
we
kind
of
realized
really
through
doing
all
the
data
around
around
this
piece
of
work
was
we
have
a
disproportionality
around
around
black
and
jewel
heritage,
boys
and
young
men
who
go
from
nothing
to
committing
a
really
serious
crime
and
being
in
custody,
so
boys
and
young
men
that
haven't
been
in
touch
with
youth
justice,
service
or
any
other
services,
and
then
commit
a
serious
violence.
K
Defense
and
their
first
contact
with
these
justice
systems
being
incarcerated,
and
I
think
what
it
threw
up,
because
a
disproportionate
number
of
them
have
a
cnd
and
scmh
needs.
It
threw
up
that
that
cohort
are
missing
early
help
in
all
forms,
so
not
only
in
adult
social
care
and
use
justice,
preventative
work,
but
also
in
education.
K
So
that's
that's,
really
focused
our
minds
in
terms
of
the
the
directorate
really
the
education
and
the
social
care
side
in
ensuring
that
that
group
don't
miss
out
on
any
help.
So
that
was
a
really
interesting
piece
of
work
to
be
involved
in
and
it's
it's
in
the
papers
that
you've
that
you've
got
the
the
plan
around
race
and
equality.
I
think
they're
the
only
comments
I've
made,
but
I'm
we're
all
really
happy
to
answer
questions
or
respond
to
comments
if
you've
got
them
I'll
hand
over
to
salam
ruth,
if
they
want
to
add.
J
Thanks
councillor
just
to
say
castle,
just
to
add
to
the
apologies,
julie,
longwood,
who
chairs
the
youth
justice
partnership
is
because
of
some
personal
reasons,
isn't
able
to
be
in
the
office
this
week.
So
I'm
sorry
that
she's
not
here
today,
but
just
in
terms
of
the
plan,
as
council
avenue
says,
this
is
a
requirement
of
the
youth
justice
partnership
to
have
a
youth
justice
planning
place.
It's
a
multi-agency
plan
and
it
obviously
is
the
work
of
the
youth
justice
service.
J
The
idea
is
that
the
plan
sets
out
the
detail
about
how
we
work
with
children,
young
people
in
the
city
in
this
arena
and
how
we
deliver
our
services,
whose
overarching
aims
are
to
reduce
offending
across
the
city
and
try
and
work
with
children
and
young
people
who,
unfortunately
do
end
up
in
custody,
and
so
one
part
of
that
is
managing
is
is
the
preventative
side.
J
The
other
part
is
managing
some
of
those
children
and
young
people
that
are
in
custody
and
then
an
important
role
in
terms
of
resettling
those
children
and
young
people
back
into
the
community
post,
any
sentence
that
they
might
have
received,
and
we
also
do
out
of
court
disposals,
which
are
alternatives
for
young
people
in
terms
of
trying
to
avoid
custody,
and
we
also
have
some
targeted
work
that
we
do
through
the
youth
justice
service
to
where
you've
got
young
people
who
are
at
risk
of
entering
the
criminal
justice
system
so
kind
of
first
time,
young
people
that
might
be
close
to
the
edge
of
committing
crime
and
getting
themselves
engaged
in
that
process.
J
We
do
preventative
work
with
them.
Now
the
plan's
got
strong
links
to
all
of
our
other
strategic
work.
So
it's
you
know,
part
of
the
children
in
young
people's
plan,
but
also,
quite
importantly,
part
of
the
three-year
strategy,
because
we
know,
as
councillor
venus
just
outlined,
that
actually
you
know
the
quality
of
engagement
that
children
and
young
people
have
in
terms
of
early
in
preventative
services,
but
also
in
terms
of
learning,
really
does
help
to
divert
them
from
escalating
into
areas
of
areas
of
offending.
J
A
Okay,
thank
you.
So
obviously
it's
a
while,
since
we've
done
this
so
just
remind
people
have
to
raise
that
actual
hand
and
I'll
I'll
take
them
in
the
house
that
I
I
see
them
so
it's
a
few
games.
So
helen
was
the
first
one
I
saw
and
if
you
just
keep
them
up
and
I'll
make
a
note
of.
G
I
think
what
councillor
bennett
said
is
really
interesting
in
terms
of
that
group
that
are
not
showing
signs,
but
but
then
there's
a
quite
a
serious
act
carried
out,
and
that
then
brings
them
into
the
system,
and
it
just
makes
me
think
back
to
about
possibly
as
long
as
a
year
ago
when
we
were
discussing
the
fact
that
more
girls
are
showing
signs
of
mental
health
issues
and
and
self-harming
and
things
that
are
out
there
to
be
noticed
and
seen,
and
I'm
just
wondering
what
the
plans
are
and
whether
also
whether
there's
a
link
between
schools
as
well,
because
we
know
that
schools
have
a
very
different
way
that
they
deal
with
with
children
and
with
discipline
and
some
of
them
it's
just
kind
of
pressure
cooker,
almost
and
others,
the
more
give
them
a
voice
and
encourage
them
to
to
speak,
and
I
just
wondered
what
what
the
plan
was
for
that
group,
because
clearly
there
are
things
with
those
pupils
going
on
the
mixed
race
group
that
are
not
that
are
not
there
to
be
noticed.
J
I
mean,
I
think
quite
a
lot
of
the
work
is
set
out
in
a
in
the,
as
I
said
in
the
formal
part
of
the
criminal
justice
system,
but
we
do
have
capacity
set
aside
to
try
and
do
that
preventative
work
where
we
can
identify
cohorts
of
children
and
young
people
where
that
preventative
work
can
take
place,
but
also
we
have
kind
of
aligned
our
youth
work
service
as
well
to
the
youth
justice
service,
so
that
you've
got
additional
capacity.
J
That
means
that,
where
we're
identifying
cohorts
of
children
and
young
people
that
we
can
respond
by
doing
the
preventative
work,
that's
necessary
and
we
haven't
seen
particularly
at
the
high
end,
a
increase
increasing
the
number
of
young
women
subject
to
custodial
sentences,
for
example,
and
one
of
the
areas
where
we
do
have.
In
addition
to
those
cohorts
that
council
event
has
identified,
we
do
have
a
disproportionality
of
looked
after
children
in
the
criminal
justice
system,
and
so
we've
got
a
specific
panel
that
operates
around
reducing
offending
for
children.
K
Make
a
couple
of
comments
to
add
to
that.
Just
try
to
that
final
point
that
sal
made.
We
have
police
involvement
in
the
foster
carers
and
group
and
the
parenting
board
because
of
the
risks
and
the
very
high
risks
have
looked
after
children
ending
up
in
the
criminal
justice
system.
Also,
we
are
doing
some
really
specific,
focused
work
around
serious
youth
violence
because
there
have
been
some
serious
offences
committed
over
the
last
over
the
last
year
by
children.
K
That
work
is
partly
in
our
direction,
but
it's
also
in
safer,
leads
in
the
violence
reduction
unit
and
we've
been
mapping
what
support
and
intervention
works
out
there,
but
we're
also
planning
to
do
an
oba
event
and
outcomes
based
accountability
event,
which
we've
done
for
a
number
of
issues
over
the
years,
which
is
where
we
bring
lots
of
people
in
the
city
together
to
talk
about
a
specific
issue.
F
Thank
you
chair,
I
suppose,
on
similar
lines
to
helens
and
when
I
was
there's
a
table
in
there
looking
at
the
agencies
and
contributions
to
me
and
I
I
would
think
that
involvement
with
education
has
a
a
big
part
to
play
in
young
people
getting
involved
in
crime,
and
I
noticed
the
dfe
is
missing.
So
I
thought
I
think,
that's
quite
remarkable.
I
know
it's
a
national
decision
as
to
who
contributes,
but
I
would
have
thought
educate.
Well,
not
just
me.
F
Everybody
here
I'd
expect
education
to
be
high
on
the
the
list
of
interventions,
and
I
also
may
have
missed
this
and
it
may
be
in
another
area,
but
there's
no
indication
of
offenders
who
might
have
who
might
come
in
the
category
of
send.
I
couldn't
identify
that
or
have
mental
health
issues
and
from
what
I
understand
about
older
offenders,
that
plays
an
awful
big
part
in
in
repeat
effect
well
in
offending
in
the
first
place,
so
is
it
is?
Is
there
a
do?
F
J
So
in
terms
of
the
agencies
that
contribute
and
that's
kind
of
statutorily
set
out
in
terms
of
contributions,
so
the
department
for
education,
don't
I
mean,
I
think
we
try
and
build
very
strong
links
between
education
and
the
youth
justice
board
and
but
also,
as
council
said,
through
links
with
the
safer
leads
partnership,
so
that
you
have
got
that
educational
element
impacting
on
it
and
we've
recently
appointed
a
deputy
director
for
learning
and
he'll
be
picking
up
some
of
those
issues,
and
it
is
part
of
the
three-year
strategy
that
will
also
be
coming
to
scrutiny
board
in
the
autumn.
J
You're
right,
I
mean
the
you
know,
education's
a
massive
protective
factor
and
so
concentrating
on
making
sure
that
some
of
the
basics
are
in
place
around
children
being
attending
in
the
first
place
and
then
concentrating
on
how
well
engaged
they
are
once
they're
in
school
is
a
massive
issue,
but
all
those
issues
that
you've
talked
about
around
scnd
and
mental
health
issues
in
the
adult
population
apply
to
young
people
as
well,
and
we
particularly
with
the
cohort
that
council
avenue
talked
about
there
in
in
terms
of
mcstress
and
young
blackman.
J
We
see
those
patterns
of
escalation
in
those
services
happen
very
quickly
as
well,
and
so
we
have
as
a
as
a
children's
services.
We've
got
a
quality
bod
that
and
a
you
know,
with
a
particular
focus
around
racial
equality
as
well,
because
we
recognize
that
there
are
some
organizational
issues
for
us
to
deal
with,
but
actually
largely
those
are
based
on
trying
to
improve
practice
on
the
ground
and
trying
to
engage
young
people
and
families
early
enough
to
do
the
preventative
work.
J
So
there's
something
about
that
and
then
there's
something
about
the
systems
that
they
that
they're
going
to
and
whether
or
not
they
are
dealt
with
fairly
and
proportionately
in
those
systems
or
not.
A
Okay,
thank
you.
Council
illinois.
K
There
is
a
real
backlog
in
in
courts
in
adults
and
children's
justice
and
where
it
particularly
affects
children
is
if
they
become
adults
while
they're
waiting,
so
they
yeah
they
can.
They
can
obviously
become
a
become
18
at
the
point
they're
waiting
to
go
to
court.
So
yeah,
it's
a
really
big
issue.
It's
really
obviously
really
stressful
and
distressing
for
children
and
families
to
have
caught
hanging
over
them,
but
they've
been
really
significant
delays.
Yeah.
J
J
Our
staff
in
the
youth
justice
service
have
been
working
face
to
face
wherever
possible
and
not
face
to
face
with
children
and
young
people
only
where
a
risk
assessment
has
been
undertaken
to
say
that
it's
not
safe
for
a
certain
period
of
time,
but
there
has
been
quite
a
lot
of
pressure
in
the
system
and
I
think,
as
we
emerge
from
corvid,
some
quite
significant
issues
in
terms
of
demand
for
services
across
the
board
for
young
people.
J
E
Yeah,
we
should
make
some
comment
about
this
aspect,
trying
to
improve
the
situation,
trying
to
stimulate
more
activity
from
central
government
resources.
A
E
Just
like
to
know
when
what
once
a
child
has
done
their
time,
once
they've
come
out
of
the
service,
how
long
do
they
actually
get
support?
Is
it
three
six
or
up
to
a
year
afterwards?
How
long
do
we
recommend
that
they
get
support
afterwards,
because
I
think
that's
where,
when
a
child
needs
support
is
when
they
actually
come
out,
it's
not
well.
I
think
they
get
a
lot.
Support
inside
they'll
be
guided
to
education
and
different
things,
but
it's
when
they
come
out
that
I'd
have
the
aquarium.
I
I
We've
got
a
really
positive
resettlement
scheme
which
supports
young
people
back
into
the
community,
and
I
think
sal
mentioned
early
earlier,
our
early
health
services
as
well,
so
we
might
be
linked
with
early
help
or
social
work
and
certainly
utilize,
our
family
book
conferencing
service
as
well
to
kind
of
support
children
to
be
back
within
their
family
in
their
community.
So
there
isn't
a
second
period
necessarily,
but
it's
based.
K
K
J
You
for
we're
just
sorry,
so
sorry,
council,
that's
okay,
just
in
terms
of
the
work
that
the
service
does
quite
a
lot
of,
it
is
concentrated
on
preventing
custody,
and
you
have
quite
a
lot
of
work.
That's
done
where
children,
young
people
are
subject
to
formal
orders
and
all
of
the
effort
goes
into
trying
to
avoid
that
period
of
time
in
custody.
J
Apart
from
where
young
people
are
seeing
a
particular
point
in
their
lives
as
a
serious
harm
to
public
safety,
so
and,
as
you
rightly
say,
jackie,
they
there's
a
lot
of
work
that
goes
on
whilst
they're
in
custody,
but
that
we
know
that
that
point
when
they
step
back
out
of
that
structure,
I
guess
and
back
into
their
lives
is
a
a
considerable
challenge.
So
we
make
every
effort
that
we
can
to
make
that
planning
as
effective
as
possible,
because
reoffending
rates
then
are
more.
J
If
you
know
we're
more
effectively
able
to
manage
those
reoffending
notes
and
we've
seen
some
improvements
in
those
in
those
rates
over
the
last
few
years.
So
big
concentration
on
what
does
it
look
like
when
they
when
they
come
back
out?
J
We
also
have
a
ruth
briefly
mentioned
a
got
one
of
the
biggest
family
group
conferencing
services
in
the
country,
but
we
also
have
some
specific
resource
that
does
family
group
conferencing,
because
I
think
part
of
the
recognition
of
that
resettlement
challenge
is
that
if
we
can
wrap
family
and
community
support
around
those
young
people,
that's
going
to
be
much
more
effective
in
a
sustainable
solution
in
the
in
the
longer
term.
So
we
use
that
as
part
of
planning
for
children
coming
out
of
custody.
A
Okay,
thank
you
for
that
councilor
renshaw.
Next,
please.
O
Thank
you,
chair
can,
I
just
say
I
welcome
the
fact
that
the
youth
service
have
worked
throughout
the
whole
of
the
pandemic
as
key
workers
and
continued
their
work.
That's
been
very
valuable
to
young
people.
However,
I
do
recall
that
we
were
going
to
have
some
life
cultures
that
dealt
with
the
mental
health
of
young
people.
K
K
Yes,
so
the
the
youth
coach,
the
the
like
the
life
coaches,
aren't
part
of
the
youth
justice
service,
which
is
what
we're
looking
at
today
in
terms
of
these
justice
plan.
They're
part
of
the
youth
service,
which
is
now
accounts
the
harlem's
portfolio.
But
I
can
answer
the
question
because
obviously
I
developed
the
model
that's
now
being
implemented.
K
So
this
is
additionality
that
was
pledged
by
council
now,
baroness
blake,
when
she
was
counsellor
blake,
she
pledged
an
additional
half
a
million
for
children's
mental
health
that
was
to
be
put
into
the
youth
service
to
create
life
coaches
and
that's
to
give
the
youth
service
some
additional
capacities
to
be
able
to
do
intensive
one-to-one
work
with
young
people
around
their
mental
health,
because
obviously,
youth
work
is
primarily
working
with
young
people
in
groups
and
it
just
gave
them
that
additional
resource.
K
So
that
will
be
young
people
that
the
service
identifies
as
benefiting
from
that
that
support,
and
I
think
it
will
be
down
to
those
practitioners
to
work
out
how
long
they'll
support
that
person
for
what
that
support
might
look
like.
So
obviously,
it'll
be
individual
depending
on
their
needs.
I'm
sure
some
of
the
work
will
be
happening
alongside
young
people
being
in
youth
groups,
but
in
some
cases
they
may
be
only
working
on
a
one-to-one
basis.
So
I
think
that
will
be
managed
within
the
youth
service
in
terms
of
how
they
support
people.
K
But
it
is
it's
it's
a
bit
separate
to
talk
about
today
and
that
it's
the
youth
service,
rather
than
the
youth
just
to
search,
although
obviously
they
work
together
and,
as
council
venture
pointed
out,
these
services
have
been
very
supportive
of
both
the
youth
justice
service
and
the
police
during
covid,
where
we've
had
some
issues
with
young
people,
particularly
say
being
out
on
the
street,
doing
lockdown
and
they've
been
very
supportive
and
engaging
young
people
and
diverting
them.
Thank
you.
O
Thank
you
for
that
council.
Then
I'd
just
like
to
ask.
There
was
a
point
made
earlier
on
about
the
referrals
of
young
people
within
the
youth
justice
service
and
the
waiting
list
within
the
youth
justice
service.
O
Quite
often,
some
of
our
young
people
have
to
be
referred
onto
cams
and
it
already
had
a
waiting
list
that
we
were
addressing
in
scrutiny
abroad.
I
don't
know
if
it
was
last
year
or
probably
the
year
before,
we've
been
consistently
monitoring
the
cams
and
the
referrals
and
took
schools
and
the
youth
service.
So
I
just
wondered
if
there
was
an
impact
on
that
at
all,
and
what
the
current
waiting
list
is
for
mental
health
issues
that
often
causes
a
lot
of
the
dilemmas
that
lead
children
and
young
people
to
their
youth
justice
service.
K
Yeah
so
so,
as
you
know,
I
chair
the
future
in
mind
board,
which
is
the
book
that
oversees
the
strategy
of
children's
mental
health
and
wellbeing.
I
think
it's
really
well
known
locally
and
nationally
that
there's
a
massively
increased
demand
on
mental
health
services,
particularly
for
children
and
young
people
and
in
particular
areas.
So
eating
disorders,
for
example,
is
really
pressurized
area
at
the
moment
in
terms
of
both
volume
and
acuity,
we've
just
refreshed
the
future.
K
In
my
strategy,
I
think
it
came
here,
didn't
it
so
there
is
a
huge
focus
on
young
people's
mental
health,
but
actually
young
people's
mental
health
has
always
been
really
poorly
resourced,
even
before
the
pandemic.
And
there
are,
I
don't
know
exactly.
K
We
have
online
counselling,
there's
a
there's,
there's
a
lot
of
support
out
there
for
children,
young
people
around
mental
health,
but
it's
a
really
pressurised
area
at
the
moment
and
that's
only
likely
to
increase
and
we
need
really
significant
investment
in
children
and
people's
mental
health.
So
we'll
see
what
happens
in
the
upcoming
budget.
A
Okay,
thank
you
councillor
gruen,
please.
N
Thank
you.
I
just
want
to
say
that
I
I
welcome
the
plan
and
I
think
it's
very
well
set
out
and
I
think
the
priorities
are
the
right
priorities,
but
what
I
wanted
to
raise
actually
has
probably
already
been
covered.
I'm
really
alarmed
at
the
overlap
in
proportional
overlap
with
children
looked
after
and
those
in
the
youth
justice
system,
and
you
know,
after
11
years
sitting
as
a
corporate
parent
on
the
board.
N
I
was
just
beginning
to
think
we
weren't
doing
too
bad
a
job
and-
and
these
figures
are
put
in
front
of
us-
I
think,
with
that
hat
on
councillor
bennett,
I
would
be
arguing
quite
strongly
for
a
priority
just
around
reducing
the
number
of
children
looked
after
in
the
system
and
obviously
the
plan
is
written
now
and
and
completed,
but
I
I
do
think
it
should
come
to
the
corporate
parenting
board
for
a
specific
item
so
that
we
all
understand
what's
behind
that
and
what
we
can
do
within
that
board
about
it.
Yeah.
A
K
Yeah,
I'm
I'm
really
happy
to
do
that.
I
would
add
it's
a
national
issue,
it's
not
only
in
leeds.
I
think
I
think
it's
something
like
25
of
the
adult
population,
nationally,
a
former
looked
after
children.
So
it's
a
really
huge.
It's
a
really
huge
national
issue,
but
yeah.
I
think
it's
a
really
good
idea
to
look
at
it
at
the
corporate
parenting
board.
J
Yeah
we
complete
that
corporate
parenting
board
one
up.
I
think
there
is
a.
We
do
have
a
specific
panel
that
looks
at
those
children
looked
after
who
are
at
risk
of
offending,
and
I
would
say
that
some
of
the
issues
that
sit
behind
particularly
adolescents,
coming
into
the
care
system
and
those
that
lead
those
young
people
into
the
criminal
justice
systems
are
very
similar
issues.
J
And
so
there's
an
element
of
that's
why
that
overlap
exists,
but
once
they
do
become
looked
after,
there
is
a
specific
panel
that
looks
at
preventative
measures
for
those
at
most
most
risk.
A
J
Think
there
is
before
before
then
what
I
would
say
is
that
it,
although
it's
a
plan
that
is
set
out
for
three
years,
and
we
see
it
very
much
as
a
live
document.
So
I
don't
see
any
issue
with
introducing
or
making
changes
as
we
go
along,
and
so
if
it
goes
to
the
corporate
parenting
board
out
of
sync
with
the
exec
board-
and
there
are
specific
recommendations
from
there,
they
can
be
incorporated
into
the
plan.
K
To
add
to
that,
in
terms
of
the
statutory
requirements
submitted
to
youth
justice
board,
although
you
you
have
to
submit
a
three-year
plan,
their
expectation
is
that
you'll
change
that
plan,
because,
obviously
you
have
to
respond
to
things
as
they
happen.
So,
although
once
we've
got
a
final,
a
final
report,
it's
not
actually
a
final
report.
We
can
tweak
it
as
we
go
along
and
add
things
in.
A
Okay,
thank
you
for
that
council
stevenson.
Please.
C
Thank
you,
chad,
on
page
31,
where
the
ethnicity
of
offenders
have
broken
down.
The
paragraph
reads:
the
over
representation,
mixed
heritage,
boys
and
justice
systems
long
standing
in
leeds,
and
we
will
prioritize
efforts
to
identify
and
address
racial
inequality.
C
J
So
I
think
it
wouldn't
be
that
the
number
of
the
number
of
white
young
people
would
increase.
It
would
be
that
the
proportion
of
the
overall
offenders
would
change,
and
what
we've
got
at
the
moment
is
a
disproportionate
proportion.
So
out
of
the
total
number
of
offenders
that
we've
got
more
than
the
population
that
exists
in
the
city
is
represented
in
that
cohort
of
offenders.
J
And
so
it's
in
response
to
that
that
there
is
a
there
is
a
focus
on
it
all
of
our
work
across
your
right,
absolutely
right
that
all
of
our
work
across
the
system.
The
way
that
we've
set
up
our
services
is
about
prevention
and
trying
to
intervene
at
the
earliest
possible
opportunity,
and
so
part
of
that
happens
through
the
work
that
I've
outlined
earlier
in
the
youth
justice
system.
But
also,
you
know,
other
other
services
that
we've
maintained
in
the
city,
around
youth
work
and
around
early
help.
J
Where
you
know,
people
could
look
at
those
services
and
say
they're,
not
statutory,
but
we've
had
a
strong
commitment
to
keeping
those
in
place
so
that
we
do
have
so
that
all
children
and
young
people
benefit
from
that
preventative
work.
Because
that's
where
we'd
want
to
do.
That's
where
we'd
want
to
do
the
work
with
all
children
and
young
people
in
the
city.
C
J
So
I
think
there
are
some
issues
that
are
of
a
systemic
nature
in
terms
of
understanding
the
needs
of
those
children
and
young
people
specific
to
their
culture
and
upbringing.
J
And
when
we
look
at
our
services,
both
here
in
the
city
but
nationally
and
quite
often
those
groups
aren't
effectively
represented
within
within
roles
within
those
services
and
so,
for
example,
one
of
the
issues
that
the
thematic
inspection
the
council
of
enemy
referred
to
picked
up
was
our
approach,
that
we've
got
around
path,
which
is
a
program
and
that
identifies
children
and
young
people
from
mixed
race
and
black
backgrounds,
who
we
who
may
well
have
been
engaged
in
the
criminal
justice
system.
J
But
we
can
work
with
in
order
to
encourage
them
to
come
into
and
work
within
the
service
and
we've
seen
quite
a
significant
number
of
those
positive
opportunities
and
taking
place.
Now.
K
Could
give
you
another
example
as
well:
we've
previously
had
disproportionality
around
romanian
boys
and
like
groups
of
romanian
boys
in
a
particular
of
the
city
and
committing
particular
types
of
crime,
and
we
did
some
targeted
work
with
catch
working
in
partnership
with
catch,
because
recognizing
that
actually
statutory
services
can
be
pretty
off-putting
and
struggle
sometimes
to
access
communities
in
the
way
third
sectors
got
better
reach
and
then
some
really
specific
work
delivered
to
that
community,
including
in
romanian.
K
So
we
had
group
work
delivered
in
romanian
and
one-to-one
work
delivered
in
in
the
boys
first
language.
So
that's
some
an
example
of
a
very
targeted
intervention
around
a
specific
minority
group
that
were
overrepresented
that
wouldn't
yeah
by
definition,
wouldn't
have
worked
for
the
wider
cohorts.
It
was
very
much
aimed
at
their
community
types
of
crimes.
They
were
committed
committing
the
fact
it
was
quite
organized
crime
and
the
language
issues.
C
J
So
I
mean
all
of
our
services,
like
obviously,
are
set
up
as
services
for
children
and
families,
and
we
know
that
all
of
the
work
that
we
do
in
whatever
part
of
our
service
that
parents
carers,
family
members,
are,
you
know
significant
in
terms
of
the
influence
they
can
have
on
children
and
young
people,
and
so
quite
a
lot
of
our
work
focuses
on
them.
J
So
things
like
multi-systemic
therapy,
for
example,
will
identify
what
the
issues
are
in
terms
of
how
parents
behaving
in
terms
of
managing
their
child
volume
person,
whether
they
should
be
having
rules
such
as
curfews
and
what
happens
when
kids
don't
stick
to
those
rules.
So
all
that
there's
a
whole
series
of
work
that
evidence-based
approaches
that
we
take
in
those
services.
J
But
the
youth
justice
service
has
that
approach
as
well
in
the
work
that
they
do,
because
we
know
that
actually,
the
engagement
of
their
parents
and
family
members
in
supporting
those
children
and
young
people
has
a
has
a
very
significant
impact
on
their
behavior
and
peer
peer
groups
are
significant
in
that
as
well
and
so
having
the
right
peer
group
and
parents
being
supported
to
manage
that
for
children
and
young
people
has
a
significant
impact
on
preventing
children
drifting
into
into
offending
behaviors
as
well.
N
I
Yeah,
I
was
just
going
to
add
something
that
might
just
be
helpful
as
well
so
before
before
we
had
the
inspection
that
councillor
vena
spoke
about
and
in
the
report
we
did.
Some
multi-agency
audit
work
around
looking
at
some
of
those
young
people
that
we're
working
with.
I
So
it
was
a
group
of
practitioners
exploring,
and
there
were
some
really
fantastic
examples
of
where
we've
been
able
to
where
there's
members
of
the
workforce,
who
are
representative
of
certain
families,
backgrounds
and
we've
specifically
allocated
those
to
work
with
those
families
and
being
able
to
do
lots
of
cultural
background
work,
really
understanding
what's
happening
for
those
families
over
months
and
and
significant
periods
of
time.
So
just
thought.
There's
some
really
good
examples
there
of
how
we
can
use
the
workforce
really
effectively
in
terms
of
understanding
culture
and
background.
A
Okay,
thank
you,
councillor
dallas
and
next.
Please
thank.
H
You
chair
really
welcome
what
counselor
venice
said
about
the
cultural
work
that's
going
on
across
the
city
and
as
a
council
who
represents
an
extremely
diverse
ward.
I
think
you
that
actually
will
pay
dividends
in
the
long
term.
But
I
was
a
little
bit
concerned
not
at
the
work
you're
doing,
but
the
statistics
that
you
gave
about
young
people
who
haven't
been
identified,
who
suddenly
go
from
zero
to
a
really
serious
crime
and
that
often
they're
on
a
spectrum
of
special
needs
in
the
first
place.
J
Yeah,
so
thanks
cal
station,
I
mean,
I
think
I've
said
that
we
are
doing
quite
a
lot
of
work
across,
particularly
our
early
help
services.
J
Looking
at
how
well
engaged
we
are,
I
think,
there's
a
big
role
in
this
that
the
the
third
sector
plays
because
again,
as
council
venera
identified
earlier,
that
sometimes
the
third
sector
have
reach
into
communities
and
into
groups
of
young
people
that
other
statutory
services
don't
have,
and
so
through
the
work
that
we're
doing
around
the
youth
service
review
that
we
undertook
there
are
there's
a
substantial
amount
of
that
input
that
will
be
led
by
the
third
sector,
but
we've
also
made
a
whole
series
of
small
grants
available
so
that
smaller
organizations
who
have
got
that
reach
to
those
young
people
can
apply
for
grants
and
get
into
and
work
with
young
people
in
a
way
that
we
can't.
J
There
are
really
good
examples
of
it.
The
council
vendor
mentioned
catch
as
as
one
example,
there
are
organizations
like
consulate,
boys
club
that
do
great
work
in
this
area
and
just
small
things
like
small
football
clubs
that
are
run
by
local
community
reps,
that
just
work
in
a
different
way,
to
the
way
that
any
of
the
statutory
services
can
work
so
ensuring
that
we've
got
a
spectrum
of
that
type
of
engagement
with
with
our
communities
is
is
really
important.
So
we
continue
to
support
that
sort
of
work.
H
Just
very
quickly,
it
would
have
been
nice
potentially
to
have
heard
from
some
of
those
third
sector
organizations
today.
So
potentially,
if
you
bring
this
back
at
some
point,
it
would
be
nice
to
hear
the
work
that
they're
doing
and
also
from
a
local
councillor's
point
of
view.
It
would
be
nice
to
actually
look
at
some
of
the
organizations
that
you
are
helping
to
fund
in
our
areas
to
see.
If
there's
any
additionality
we
can
put
in
to
help
them,
do
the
excellent
work
they're
doing.
Thank
you.
A
Okay,
thank
you
still
got
quite
a
few
contributors.
I've
gotta
I've
got
a
few
more
substantive
items
on
the
agenda,
so
we'll
take
all
the
people
that
have
got
their
hands
up,
but
if
members
could
just
reflect
on
recommendation
a
for
these
next
few
minutes
and
if
there's
anything,
we
want
to
to
add
if
we're
going
to
endorse
the
plan
as
is
or
if
there's
something
we
want
to
add
to
it
so
councillor
flint
was
next.
Please.
M
Thank
you,
yeah.
I
definitely
endorsed
the
plan.
I
think
it's,
it
was
great.
I
read
it
all
as
a
I'm.
A
youth
worker
qualified
and
I've
worked
in
the
community.
I've
worked
in
adelbeck,
I've
worked
in
schools
and
I
think,
from
kind
of
my
experience,
the
most
effective
kind
of
work
that
I
saw
was
work
where
ex-offenders
spoke
with
young
people,
and
I
just
wondered
if
there
was
kind
of
examples
of
that
happening
or
if
that's
reliant
on
third
sex
organizations,
doing
that
and
also
the
other
effective
work.
M
I
thought
was
like
restorative
work,
where
young
people
met
the
families
that
their
crime
had
impacted
and
that
just
seemed
to
really
help
in
their
kind
of
being
part
of
the
community
again,
but
also
kind
of
stopping
further
crime.
M
So
I
just
wondered:
if
there
were
examples
of
that
or
if
that
is
just
down
to
their
sector,
and
if
it
is,
then
we
need
to
be
doing
all
we
can
to
yeah
find
funding
for
such
projects,
and
I
was
just
really
amazed
by
the
on
page
34,
where
it
says
that
no
girls
from
leeds
have
been
sentenced
or
remanded
to
custody.
Since
2013.
M
seeing
a
lot
of
my
work
before
that
was
with
girls
who
had
been
sentenced,
so
just
yeah
just
wanted
to
kind
of
make
a
note
of
that
and
say
that's
impressive,
but
obviously
the
work
to
be
done
is
you
know
catching
young
boys
early
on
and
yeah.
J
Thanks
the
councillor
flint,
so
I
think
on
the
issue
around
ex-offenders.
Some
of
the
work
that
I
outlined
just
a
while
ago
in
terms
of
the
pathwork
is
really
gay,
is
really
aimed
at
trying
to
get
trying
to
overcome
some
of
those
barriers
for
those
young
people
getting
into
work,
because
you
know
it's
fairly
straightforward
and
that
actually
the
more
children
and
young
people
are
in
educational
or
work
that
the
less
likelihood
of
them
offending.
J
So
that's
one
route
of
that
work
that
we
do.
We
have
had
a
pretty
inspirational
ex-offender
who
worked
in
our
youth
justice
service,
who
is
published
nationally,
who
continues
to
provide
support
for
children
and
young
people
has
been
a
real
inspiration
and
we've
done
conferences
based
around
his
own,
his
own
story.
So
we
do
recognize
the
power
that
that
has.
J
We
often
use
people
like
people
from
rhinos
and
leeds
united,
where,
where
where
we
can
to
help
and
support
that
kind
of
work,
so
we
do
recognize
the
we
do
recognize
the
power
of
it
in
terms
of
restorative
practice.
J
You
know
we've
based
our
children's
services
approaching
restorative
practice
and
whilst
I
know
that
there's
a
specific
part
of
it,
which
is
the
restorative
justice,
which
is
some
of
what
you
were
alluding
to
in
terms
of
young
people,
actually
meeting
up
with
people
against
whom
they
have
caused
harm,
we
do
use
that.
J
We
do
use
that
approach
within
the
youth
justice
service
and
it
is
available
for
children
and
young
people
to
to
get
engaged
in.
But
we
also
set
a
culture
and
a
an
approach
that
is
restorative.
That's
about
working
with
children
and
young
people
and
holding
people
accountable
where
harm
has
been
and
harm
has
been
committed.
So
yeah
appreciate
both
those
points.
And
yes,
we
do
both
those
areas
of
work
in
the
service.
A
Okay,
thank
you
tony.
Please.
E
I
suppose
once
a
young
person's
reached
the
justice
system
society's
fail
them,
so
I
I
I
would
have
thought
that
the
main
issue
should
have
been
on
prevention.
E
According
to
that
sort
of
portal
of
truth,
you
actually
even
imposed.
There
seems
to
be
areas
in
the
city
where
there
is
a
developmental
growth
of
gang
culture.
E
J
That
sure
I
mean
I,
you
know
agree
that
the
as
as
much
preventative
work
as
we
can
do.
You
know
we
want
to
focus
on
and
that's
why
we
use
the
kind
of
multi-agency
approach
to
try
and
support
children
and
young
people
as
early
as
problem
as
early
in
the
life
of
the
problems
as
we
can
so.
J
The
work
that
is
specific
to
the
youth
justice
service
is
governed
through
the
youth
justice
board
that
council
venezuelan
is
part
of
and
that
julie
along
with
chairs,
so
that
work
is
coordinated
and
governed
through
those
arrangements
and
the
majority
of
that
sits
within
that
statute
within
those
statutory
requirements
around
once
young
people
have
reached
this
particular
threshold
and
they're
part
of
the
criminal
justice
system,
and
there
has
to
be
governments
and
arrangements
that
sit
over
that
our
youth
justice
service
does
have
capacity
to
do
some.
J
Some
of
that
preventative
work
so
outside
of
the
statutory
requirement,
but
also
there
are
there's
a
violence
reduction
unit
that
oversees
quite
a
bit
of
the
work
that
you're
talking
about,
which
is
governed
underneath
the
safer
leads
partnership.
So
you
have
got
a
cross
city,
multi-agency
representation
that
concentrates
on
a
strategic
approach
to
tackling
some
of
the
challenges
that
you've
identified.
D
Actually,
this
follows
on
from
a
number
of
contributors
here
I
was
just
under
in
wondering
what
evidence
is
available
if
there
is
any
of
the
age
at
which
children
start
to
exhibit,
you
might
say,
potential
behavior
patterns
which
will
lead
them
inexorably
towards
the
youth
justice
system,
because
it's
already
been
said,
they
don't
start
out
like
that.
They
arrive
there
and
there
are
lots
of
contributory
factors.
D
As
I
know,
I
just
wondered
whether
that
has
actually
changed
evolved
and
is
it
another
one
of
those
factors
that
you
have
that
has
to
be
taken
into
account
when
dealing
with
the
mechanisms.
I
think
the
ways
in
which
we're
going
to
address
this,
so
I
wondered,
if
there's
been
any
thought
on
changing
patterns
of
behavior,
which
impact
there.
J
So
I
think,
by
again,
by
the
time
that
children,
young
people
arrive
at
the
with
the
youth
justice
service,
then
some
of
that
impact
has
already
taken
place.
I
guess
you
know
from
my
own
view
of
things.
What
we'd
want
to
do
is
to
try
and
improve
outcomes
for
children
and
young
people
across
the
board,
this
being
one
of
them
and
what
we
try
and
concentrate
on
is:
how
early
can
you
do
that
and
as
early
as
possible?
Some
of
this
you
know
some
of
this
stuff
starts
in
pregnancy.
J
Doesn't
it,
and
in
terms
of
how
do
we
support
parents
to
be
the
most
effective
that
there
can
be
throughout
the
life
course
of
the
child?
Some
of
when
these
young
people
come
to
our
attention
through
these
formal
mechanisms
is
to
do
with
this
to
do
with
the
law
so
age
of
criminal
responsibility,
and
at
that
point,
then
any
acts
that
are
undertaken
by
those
children
and
young
people.
J
You
know
form
part
of
that
statutory
process,
but
we
know
that
there
are
small
numbers
but
significant
behavior
issues
that
children
and
young
people
have
well
before
and
being
10
years
old,
and
so
all
of
the
preventative
services
that
we've
got
set
up
are
engaged
in
that
work,
and
you
know
the
other
side
of
it
is
that
there
are
broader
societal
factors
that
impact
poverty
is
a
major
driver
in
terms
of
in
terms
of
the
correlation
between
that
and
criminal
lactam
criminal
activity,
and
we
have
strategic
plans
across
the
city
that
try
and
mitigate
the
impact
of
those
sort
of
societal
factors.
J
But
all
of
our
work
in
the
prevention
end
is
focused
on
trying
to
support
children
and
young
people
to
have
the
best
and
most
positive
period
of
time
within
their
own
family
and
community
networks
wherever
possible,
and
so
that
concentration
on
parenting
and
support
for
children
and
young
people
as
they
grow
up,
I
think,
is
at
the
crux
of
what
you're
asking,
but
there
isn't
a
there
isn't
a
switch
that
goes
at
this
age.
A
Okay,
thank
you,
councilor
renshaw,
please.
O
Thank
you
chair,
I'd,
just
like
to
refer
back
to
page
32,
where
it
refers
to
weapon
crimes
and
the
number
of
crimes
of
fifth
day.
I
wonder
if
there
was
any
idea
of
any
particular
areas
within
the
city
where
that
was
probably
more
frequently
done
or
occurred
are
occurring
than
other
parts
of
the
city
and
and
just
going
back
to
a
point
that
was
referred
to
when
councillor
delson
answered,
asked
the
question
and
it
was
referring
to
the
voluntary
sector
in
the
outer
south.
O
We
don't
have
voluntary
sector
services,
we
just
depend
on
our
a1,
really
good
quality,
local
directory
youth
service
and
they
deliver
a
very
good
program.
O
K
So,
in
terms
of
the
areas
where
those
types
of
crimes
are
most
prevalent,
it
tends
to
the
inner
east,
which
probably
isn't
a
surprise
in
that
that's
also
the
most
deprived
part
of
the
city
and
and
the
part
of
the
city
with
the
most
children,
and
we're
really
aware
that
the
third
sector
is
better
represented
in
some
wards
than
others.
The
awards
that
I've
referred
to,
like
hair
hills,
that's
got
catch
or
that
counts.
The
dowsing
referred
to
her
own
ward
of
chapel
town.
K
They
are
the
densely
populated,
most
diverse
inner
city
wards,
so
we're
referring
to
them
in
this
context,
because
they're
very
skilled
in
reaching
into
communities
that
statutory
services
might
struggle
to
reach
into,
and
with
regard
to
your
last
point
about
funding
that
the
youth
service
isn't
able
to
access
that.
That
is.
That
is
the
case.
Actually
I
mean
one
of
the
part
of
the
additionality.
The
third
sector
brings
is
that
as
organizations
constituted
like
us
charities
that
that
gives
them
access
to
funding
that
we
can't
access
as
a
council.
K
So
you
can
apply
to
charitable
trust
funding
if
you're
a
charity,
for
example,
so
that
that
is
the
case
that
there's
funding
third
sector
organizations
can
access
to
our
youth
service
can't
but
most
third
central
organizations.
Their
origins
were
in
communities
getting
together
or
individuals,
with
a
particular
passion
setting
up
organizations
that
mattered
to
them.
So
there
is
the
potential
in
any
community
to
set
up
a
community
interest.
K
What
are
they
called?
Cics
community
interest
company-
a
charity-
you
know
a
small
company,
they
they
all
are,
you
know,
came
out
of
communities
or
came
out
of
community.
Other
geographical
communities
are
coming
of
interest.
K
O
Can
I
just
ask
if
there's
any
monitoring
that
goes
on
to
make
sure
that
all
the
youth
services
throughout
the
city
are
delivering
the
same
high
quality
and
standard
of
service
or
is?
Is
that
something
that's
been
on
the
back
bender
because
we've
kept
putting
it
putting
that
forward
from
scrutiny
bard
that
really
should
be
of
the
same
quality
delivered
throughout
the
whole
of
the
city.
Yeah.
K
K
Yeah
again,
I
think
this
is
straight
into
another
area,
because
it's
the
service
rather
than
this
just
a
service.
However,
when
I
presented
the
model
for
use
work,
it
did
include
a
really
extensive
amount
of
information
about
monitoring
and
evaluation,
because
we
do
recognize
that
that
has
been
patchy
and
inconsistent
both
in
terms
of
our
own
internally
delivered
service
and
what's
provided
within
the
third
sector,
that's
commissioned,
so
within
the
model
that's
being
implemented
now
there
will
be
within
the
contracts
that
will
be
developed
for
each
wedge
of
the
city.
A
Okay,
thank
you,
councillor
forsake
and
then
I've
got
a
couple
of
questions
and
then
we'll
we'll
wrap
up
on
this
section.
E
Thank
you
very
much
for
brevity.
So
yes,
I
welcome
and
endorse
the
plan
you
have
and
I
won't
I
was
going
to
ask
about
the
reoffending,
but
you've
you've
talked
sort
of
quite
a
lot
about
that.
In
previous
answers,
I
was,
I
felt
quite
inspired
by
your
priorities,
say
doing
the
simple
things
better
and
the
listening,
and
I
think
you
know
that
that
is
really
important.
So
how
will
this
link?
Can
you
also
say
that
the
plan
will
change
over
time?
E
How
will
the
work
that
we're
doing
on
off-roading
and
next
collective
home
education
be
able
to
sort
of
dovetail
into
this
over
time?
Is
that
something
that
can
you
know
confessibly
happen.
J
So
I
think
we
can
pick
those
links
up
through,
particularly
through
the
refresh
three-year
strategy,
that's
coming
to
scrutiny,
and
so
we
need
to
make
sure
that
that
those
links
across
in
terms
of
preventative
preventative
work
in
in
this
field
and
access
to
learning
and
education
are,
you
know,
very
strongly
linked
because
that's
a
massive
factor
in
terms
of
you
know
young
people
and
how
they
spend
their
time.
J
So
you
know,
we've
always
had
this
obsession
around
trying
to
make
sure
that
we
can
improve
attendance
of
children
and
young
people
in
the
city,
and
you
know
over
a
number
of
years,
pre-pandemic
we've
made
quite
a
bit
of
progress
in
that,
but
it's
not
just
about
the
attendance
piece
it's
about
how
well
engaged
children.
Young
people
are
once
they
once
you
have
got
them
into
those
learning
organizations
and
the
quality
of
the
offer
in
terms
of
provision
when
children
are
in
mainstream
school.
J
K
Let's
respond
to
the
doing
simple
things:
well,
I
I
think
I
hope
what
comes
through
in
this
plan
is
the
humanity
that's
behind
doing
the
simple
things.
Well,
because
a
really
important
aspect
of
the
ethos
of
the
service
is
recognizing
that
the
people
we're
working
with
are
children
first,
their
children,
and
then
their
offenders
are
at
risk
of
being
offended
second
and
treating
the
children
and
young
people
we
work
with
with
warmth,
compassion,
respect
recognizing
their
survival
trauma
is,
is
really
important,
and
I
hope
that
comes
across
in
statements
like
that.
A
Yep,
thank
you
and
yeah.
It's
been
a
really
powerful
discussion
and
I
don't
know
if
I
get
quite
deeply
affected.
Whenever
we
talk
about
this
issue
and
from
my
award,
we
have
young
offenders
institute
at
weatherby.
I
think
about
15
years
ago
is
the
first
time
I
visited
and
probably
not
as
frequently
as
I
should,
but
I've
occasionally
visited
and
what
tony
said
is
a
line.
A
I've
used
many
times
that
I
feel
every
time
I
drive
past
every
time
I
go
in
the
last
time
I
was
there
was
272
young
men
in
there
and
you
feel
we've
failed
as
a
society.
Every
single
one
of
them
is
that
really
the
best
we
can
do
for
young
people
to
lock
them
away,
and
we
have
to
do.
A
I
I
welcome
the
plan
as
well,
but
we
have
to
do
better.
I
think
so.
I
thought
my
one
of
my
questions
was:
have
we
captured
the
voice
of
those
young
people?
What
I've
found
when
I've
visited
is,
once
you
forget,
they're
there
for
a
reason
and
they've
mainly
done
some
some
pretty
bad
things
to
be
there
once
you
move
past
that,
and
you
forget,
where
you
are,
and
you
start
talking
to
them,
you
could
be
talking
to
any
child.
A
They've
got
the
same.
Hopes,
dreams,
aspirations,
ambitions
for
the
future
and,
despite
all
of
that,
they've
still
ended
up
in
in
that
place,
and
if
there's
one
public
service
we
could
do
out
of
business.
That's
that's
the
one
that
would
be
top
of
my
list,
and
that
should
be
our
our
ambition.
I
think,
to
take
away
the
need
to
have
it
at
all.
A
So
my
question:
how
have
we
captured
the
voice
of
those
young
people
in
this
and
then
the
final
point
for
me
is
we
don't
have
a
schedule
to
look
at
this
item?
I'd
certainly
like
to
keep
a
very
close
eye
on
how
we're
making
progress,
and
we
have
touched
on
it
previously
for
some
other
inquiries.
I'd
be
really
keen
for
us
to
go.
A
I
think
we
couldn't
go
as
a
full
board
like
this,
but
I'd
be
really
keen
for
the
board
to
go
and
engage
with
those
young
people
and
to
find
a
way,
we've
done
it
in
the
past
with
other
services
and
understand
from
them
their
story
and
some
case
studies
and
I
think
it'd
be
really
powerful
to
to
have
an
ongoing
relationship
with
an
ongoing
look
at
this,
and
because,
if
we
can
tackle
this
problem,
all
of
the
things
that
have
come
before
it,
because
I
think
it's
probably
the
exception
when
people
go
from
nothing
to
committing
a
crime
that
gets
them
here.
A
J
Yeah,
I
think
the
thanks
for
council.
You
know
I've
heard
directly
from
young
people
have
been
involved
in
the
offending
system
and,
as
you
know,
children
who
are
in
the
care
system
and
sometimes
the
way
that
we
describe
what
they
do
actually
creates
as
many
problems
as
it
is.
It's
all.
So
you
have
quite
a
lot
of
young
people
who
will
say
and
that
actually
you
could
have
described
this
behavior
in
this
way
and
instead
you
did.
J
You
described
it
in
a
much
more
punitive
and
negative
way,
and
that
builds
up
a
picture
for
us
about
what
this
you
know
before.
You've
met
them
and
what
they're
going
to
look
like
or
who
they're
going
to
be
and
then
suddenly
you
turn
up,
and
you
see
this
vulnerable
little
young
lad
and
the
story.
The
paint
picture
that
people
have
painted
is
of
something
far
more
challenging
type.
Yes,
I
agree
with
you
about
really
having
to
reset
some
of
that
and
about
you
know.
J
Castlevania's
point
about
these
are
young
people
who
have
got
significant
needs
as
children
and
young
people
and,
if
and
part
of
the
solution
to
the
difficulties
that
they
find
themselves
in
is
about
us
getting
ourselves
set
up
to
be
able
to
meet
those
needs
so
that
we
can
help
them
to
avoid
being
further
into
that
further
into
that
system.
You
know,
we've
got
our
on
secure
children's
home.
J
I
don't
bet
which
does
operate
very
differently
to
you.
Your
offenders
institute
such
as
weatherby
there's
a
specific
thing
about
having
a
children's
home
for
those
children
and
young
people,
because
in
the
in
calling
it
a
children's
home.
Whilst
we
are
undertaking
a
statutory
responsibility
and
those
children
are
in
custody,
we
keep
an
ethos
of
them
being
in
a
home,
and
so,
through
places
like
quebec,
we
have
strong
representation
of
children.
J
Young
people's
voices,
who
are
part
part
of
the
system,
youth
justice
service
has
you
know,
does
their
own
work
around
voice
and
influence
of
children
and
young
people
within
within
the
service,
and
then
there's
for
each
individual
child
or
young
person
through
their
individual
plans.
A
So,
in
terms
of
monitoring,
when,
when
would
you
say
is
a
good
time,
I
think
it's
something
we
should
be
doing
regularly
as
a
board.
J
So
I
guess
I
guess,
before
we
get
into
programs
of
work
and
upcoming
years,
there's
something
if
there
was
if
the
board
wanted
to
have
a
closer
look
at
it
in
terms
of
some
form
of
working
group
that
might
be
into
next
year's
plan.
I
think,
given
the
amount
that
we've
got
on
at
the
moment,
if
we
wanted
to
you
know,
we
could
bring
a
item
a
bit
like
today
in
12
months
time
to
kind
of
go.
J
This
is
where
we've
got
to
with
the
plan
from
the
last
year
so
that
you've
got
you
know
if
you
yeah,
you
you'd
have
an
opportunity
to
look
at
it
again
in
12
months
time
to
say
what
progress
is
being
made
against
the
plan
that
we
brought
and
in
a
sense
you
could
refresh
any
actions
and
changes
that
you
wanted
to
see
at
that
at
that,
given
point
so
we
could
do
that.
Okay,.
H
Just
to
suggest
chair
that,
if
you
do
look
at
it
again
in
12
months,
perhaps
it
might
be
an
idea
for
the
board
to
go
out
to
catch
or
somebody
like
that.
I'm
sure
the
catch
top
room
would
accommodate
everybody
and
you
could
actually
see
what
they
do
and
speak
to
young
people
in
person.
Just
a
suggestion.
A
Oh
thank
you
for
that.
Okay.
So
our
recommendation
is
that
we
endorse
the
plan
ahead
of
it
going
to
executive
board
in
november
and
then
full
council
in
january.
Are
we
happy
to
do
that
council
grant?
Did
you
want
to
to
add
something.
N
Well,
I
would
like
executive
board
to
be
presented
with
this
with
the
caveats
that
the
looked
after
children's
board
may
wish
to
emphasize
that
aspect
of
the
plan
or
even
introduce
a
new
priority.
Yeah.
A
N
Whatever
action
you
do,
whatever
focus
you
take,
I
mean
the
nearest
I've
seen
is:
is
really
talented
youth
work
that
might
compensate
a
little
bit
for
that,
but
it's
almost
impossible
to
compensate
for
no
support
at
home
and
that's
why
we've
got
these
large
numbers.
So
I
do
think
the
corporate
parenting
board
has
a
role
in
looking
at
this,
with
the
possibility
of
making
a
change
to
it.
A
I
will
make
the
point
I'm
reasonably
confident:
councillor
venna
will
make
that
that
point
whenever
the
opportunity
arises,
but
she's
right,
okay,
so
so
we
can
move
on.
So
thank
you.
It's
been
a
really
really
good,
powerful
discussion.
I
think
so
we're
going
on
now
to
item
eight.
If
I
can
find
where
on
earth
I
am
so
it's
the
covid19
update
on
early
years,
early
help
and
children's
social
care.
So
again,
councillor
bennett.
K
Yes,
thank
you
chair,
so
this
is
a
report
that
we've
brought
to
the
board
regularly
over
the
last
18
months,
so
that
you're
assured
in
terms
of
how
the
directorate's
working
in
the
crisis
and
how
we're
supporting
children
and
families
in
the
city
just
to
draw
a
couple
of
points.
So
in
terms
of
early
years,
we
haven't
seen
the
sufficiency
crisis
that
has
hit
other
areas
of
the
country
in
terms
of
providers
going
under,
and
we
are
monitoring
that
really
really
closely.
K
K
I'm
continuing
to
meet
regularly
on
big
zoom
calls
with
child
care
providers
and
there's
a
regular
bronze
meeting
that
that
julie
shares
with
them
group
group
setting
providers
wrap
around
care
and
child
minders.
The
sector,
as
I've
probably
said
before
here,
has
felt
very
abandoned
at
a
national
level.
During
the
crisis,
a
lot
of
guidance
for
schools
has
missed
out
early
years
funding
that
schools
can
apply
for
as
missed
early
years.
So
they've
really
appreciated
the
amount
of
contacts
and
support
they've
had
locally.
K
There
are
massive
recruitment
challenges
in
the
sector
at
the
moment,
so
that's
affecting
little
owls
and
other
providers
as
well.
That's
a
really
really
big
challenge
currently
and
also,
unsurprisingly,
a
challenge:
that's
starting
to
come
through.
I've
been
visiting
children's
centers,
which
is
a
delight
now
that
I'm
a
lounge
out
we're
allowed
out
and
about
again
I've
been
doing
visiting
lots
of
places
and
our
children's
centers
are
saying
children
are
just
not
where
they
should
be
in
terms
of
milestones
and
that's
really
not
surprising
in
terms
of
babies
born
during
this
period.
K
Toddlers
during
this
period,
they've
just
not
had
the
contact
with
other
children,
and
you
know
other
adults,
and
you
know
for
for
a
while.
Only
you
know
key
work.
Children,
vulnerable
children
were
going
to
nursery
settings.
So
yeah,
that's!
So
that's
that's
an
ongoing
issue.
Moving
on
to
foster
care,
there's
a
reference
to
the
report
to
an
increase
in
referrals
to
the
kinship
care
team.
So
in
leeds
we
have
a
much
higher
percentage
of
children
in
kinship
care
than
is
the
case
nationally.
K
So
34
of
our
children
are
fostered
within
their
own
families,
which
is
really
high.
It's
20
nationally,
so
that's
very
positive
in
terms
of
keeping
children
in
their
extended
family.
The
impact
of
poverty
on
social
work
is
referred
to
in
the
report.
We're
expecting
that
to
be
even
more
of
an
issue
now,
with
the
end
of
the
uplift
and
universal
credit
plus
furlough,
coming
to
an
end
plus
cave
itself,
isolation,
payments,
ending
plus
increase
in
fuel
bills.
So
I
chaired
this
childhood
and
pat
board.
So
that's
work.
That's
really!
O
K
Is
good,
that's
going
to
continue
to
be
a
bigger
issue
within
social
work.
The
fostering
services
had
great
support
from
elected
members
recently,
which
was
referred
to
full
council,
so
I
did
a
a
zoom
event
with
the
fostering
service
about
how
elected
members
can
support
fostering
in
our
own
wards,
and
the
team
are
going
to
go
out
to
wanting
to
go
out
to
like
county
the
parish
councils
to
get
some
more
support
in
outer
areas.
K
Council
seniors
very
involved
in
this
morley
are
doing
a
reception
for
which
is
going
to
be
foster.
Current
foster
carers
are
going
to
go
to
try
and
encourage
more
people
locally
to
get
involved
in
fostering
and
within
our
children's
homes.
Inspections
have
started
again:
we've
had
very
good
inspections
over
the
last
year.
I
think
we
have
four
good
three
outstanding
results.
So
now
all
our
children's
homes,
except
one
and
good,
are
outstanding,
so
they've
done
a
sterling
job
over
the
last
18
months.
I'll
leave
my
comments
there.
Thank
you
chair.
J
Yeah
just
just
had
on
the
earlier
side,
our
children's
centers
are
now
open.
As
council
venice
said,
that
you
know
we
did.
We
were
a
bit
worried
about
sufficiency
in
terms
of
availability
of
child
care
places,
but
the
that
seems
to
be
okay
for
us
at
the
moment
in
terms
of
those
both
in
the
private
sector
and
the
places
that
we
provide
remaining
available.
There
is
an
issue
in
terms
of
take-up
of
places
and
so
demand
in
terms
of
child
care.
J
Provision
is
starting
to
rise
again
slowly,
but
it's
nowhere
near
pre-pandemic
levels,
and
so
that
is
that
is
going
to
cause
issues
for
for
the
sector.
So,
whilst
our
all
of
ours,
child
care
provision
is
now
back
up
and
it's
nowhere
near
operating
at
the
same
level
of
demand
as
it
was
previously,
and
there
are
issues
again,
as
councilor
ben
alluded
to
around
staffing,
I
would
say
that
those
staffing
issues
are
across
the
board
in
terms
of
social
care.
J
So
there
are
issues
in
terms
of
recruitment
that
people
will
be
aware
of.
You
know
in
general
terms
across
the
country,
but
also
impact
of
long
covered
is
starting
to
become
a
bit
more
apparent
in
terms
of
the
numbers
of
people,
members
of
our
staff
that
are
suffering
with
long
covered
and
they're.
You
know,
whilst
we've
got
high
numbers
of
very
high
numbers
of
staff,
who've
been
double
vaccinated.
There
are
still
people
who
are
ill
with
corvid
and
and
not
in
work.
J
So
it
is
a
system
that
is
under
significant
pressure
across
the
city,
but
as
the
restrictions
have
changed,
we've
continued
to
work
to
ensure
that
people
are
coming
back
in
to
work
where,
where
they
need
to
and
that,
actually
you
know
face-to-face
working
where
it's
needed,
but
secondly,
just
building
up
that
term.
Face-To-Face
working
is
a
high
priority
for
us,
and
so
we
are
pushing
on
that
and
supporting
people
to
get
back
in
as
much
as
possible.
F
I
know
during
the
course
of
the
lockdown
pandemic,
andrea
richardson
left
and
I
think
the
the
service
coped
with
that
incredibly
well,
both
helen
and
I
attend
catch
up,
union
catch-up
meetings
with
learning
for
life
and
just
to
say
the
work
that
they've
managed
to
do
throughout
lockdown
is,
I
think,
you'd
endorse
that
absolutely
sterling
and
we're
aware
of
the
shortage
of
staffing
and
the
their
endeavors
to
run
apprenticeships,
that
I
mean
it's
council-wide,
but
it
it's
yeah,
the
the
deserve,
all
the
congratulations
that
come
their
way
and
another
point
I
picked
up
on
the
the
provisions
made
for
youth
at
line
and
farm
and
herd
farm,
and
many
years
ago
you
may
have
been
on
the
scrutiny
board.
F
Then
it
was
re.
There
was
a
question
raised
about
getting
rid
of
them,
and
this
scrutiny
board
argued
that
they
should
be
retained
and
they've
done
excellent
work
since,
but
it's
they've
certainly
come
into
their
own
under
the
current
conditions.
So
in
that
it's
it's
not
the
the
short
term.
Answer
that
solves
the
problems
in
the
long
run.
Is
it.
A
J
Want
to
come
back
on
those
yeah.
Thank
you.
Thank
you
for
that
appreciate
that,
and
we
will
pass
that
on
to
to
the
staff,
particularly
in
that
area,
that
you've
highlighted.
I
think
people
have
been
really
flexible
in
the
way
that
they've
responded
throughout
the
pandemic.
I
think
it's.
I
think.
J
The
point
that
I'm
trying
to
make
in
some
ways
is
that
the
pressures
continue
currently
and
they're
evident
in
terms
of
when
you
look
at
those
staff
who
have
worked
flexibly
throughout
that
period
of
time
have
turned
their
hand
to
things
that
we've
needed
them
to
do
that,
but
there
is
also
a
fatigue
that
kind
of
comes
with
that
and
demand
for
those
services
is
higher,
and
some
of
the
complexities
that
we're
dealing
with
within
the
services
are
are
significantly
increased.
J
You
only
have
to
think
about
mental
health
that
we've
talked
about
already
here,
particularly
for
children
and
young
people,
and
so
it
is
a
you
know.
We're
really
grateful
to
to
our
staff
who
are
doing
a
sterling
job,
but
the
pressures
in
the
system
are
significant,
still.
A
Okay,
thank
you
councillor
gruben,
please.
N
Thank
you
chair.
I
just
wanted
to
make
a
comment
about
paragraph
67,
the
mention
of
the
suitably
trained
youth
staff
and
youth
justice
staff
working
in
children's
homes
during
this
period,
and
I
must
say,
visiting
both
virtually
and
in
person.
The
one
that's
in
my
ward
and
seeing
those
youth
staff
working
with
those
children
was
actually
quite
inspiring
and
one
of
them
actually
has
applied
for
a
permanent
job
and
now
works
in
the
home
because
she
she
sort
of
found
her
vocation
as
it
were,
but
it
isn't
they.
N
They
have
set
a
very
different
sort
of
relationship
up
and
that's
what
caused
me
to
say.
The
nearest
compensation
I've
seen
is
really
skilled.
Youth
work.
I
just
wonder
whether
we
need
to
think
through
the
nature
of
the
stuffing
of
our
children's
homes
in
general,
because
it
did
bring
a
different
dimension.
I
don't
know
whether
they're
qualified
to
a
higher
level
or
trained
to
a
higher
level,
but
they
certainly
caught
the
work
from
a
slightly
different
angle
and
it
improved
the
provision
in
that
home
no
end
so
rather
than
staying
here.
N
J
Thanks
councillor
growing
again
appreciate
the
the
comments
that
you've
made
there.
I
think
what
we're
saying
is
we're
not
relying
in
terms
or
because
in
in
some
ways,
part
of
that
was
enforced
upon
us
in
terms
of
needing
to
have
those
people
there.
As
you
say,
we've
learned
through
that,
actually
that
there
are
benefits
to
it.
There
are
strong
links
between
youth
work
services
and
children's
homes
that
we
are
looking
to
develop.
J
They
are
you
qualified
youth
workers
are
trained
to
a
level
that
is
higher
than
residential
residential
child
care
workers,
social
workers.
J
Sorry,
so
I
think
there
probably
is
something
in
that
for
us
in
terms
of
learning
and
we've
been
doing
some
refreshed
work
that
I'm
sure
we'll
come
back
through
the
corporate
parenting
board,
around
staffing
and
our
plans
around
strengthening
children's
homes
and
our
fostering
services
over
the
coming
few
years,
and
that
can
take
account
of
some
of
the
some
of
what
we've
learned
through
this
period
of
time
and
some
of
that
particular
skill
that
you've
talked
about
because
children,
young
people
in
their
children's
homes.
A
Okay,
thank
you
for
that
council
renshaw.
Please.
O
I
do
welcome
this
report,
but
I
just
would
like
to
ask
a
couple
of
questions
around
the
social
developments
of
children
and
young
people
right
from
the
early
years
that,
because
obviously
they're
not
used
to
over
the
last
couple
of
years
making
that
social
connection,
and
I
think
that
is
holding
them
up
within
both
the
educational
situa
system
and
the
pleasurable
side
as
well,
and
finding
it
difficult
to
make
those
links
whether
it
was
because
they
were
at
one
point
in
a
bubble
and
only
socialize
with
a
restricted
group
of
people.
O
But
mixing
with
the
whole
school
now
or
the
whole
earlier
center
is,
is
very
difficult.
And
I
just
wondered
if
there
was
any
work
in
place
to
try
and
support
that,
but
for
both
the
schools
and
the
children's
centres.
Or
if
there
was
any
recommendations
that
you
could
pass
on
to
elected
members,
that
we
should
be
doing
to
try
and
support.
K
That
yeah,
I
think
in
terms
of
recommendations
for
elected
members.
I
think
anything
you
can
do
with
families
that
you're
in
contact
with
to
encourage
take-up
of
places
and
going
to
children's
sense
and
engaging
with
the
groups
and
the
wide
range
of
activities
they
have
on
offer
would
be
really
positive
because
it's
yeah,
it's
absolutely
right.
What
you're
saying
council
eventual
children's
centers
are
experiencing
children
that
are
really
distressed
being
left
by
their
parents.
You
know
with
really
significant
separation
anxiety,
because
they've
not
even
been
going
to
grandparents.
K
You
know
you've
got
babies
that
weren't
held
by
anyone
other
than
parents
for
for
months.
So
I
think
this
is
one
of
the
impacts
of
the
pandemic
that
we
don't
yet
know
what
that,
what
what
it's
going
to
be
it'll
it'll,
manifest
over
the
weeks
and
months
and
years
as
this
cohort
of
babies
and
small
children
grow
and
develop.
But
it's
absolutely
the
case
that
they've
not
been
in
extended
families
they've
not
been
with
other
babies.
K
You
know
they've
not
been
going
to
all
the
baby
groups
that
you'd
normally
go
to
with
a
baby
and
so
their
ability
to
be
around
other
children
to
socialise
to
cope
with
noise.
It
is
really
different,
I
would
say
our
children
staff
are
really
on
it,
that
they
know.
This
is
an
issue
so
they're
looking
at
it
in
their
in
their
individual
centers
they're.
K
Also
sharing
practice
on
the
zoom
calls
that
I
I
chair,
you
get
practitioners
from
across
the
sectors,
and
you
know
child
minders
wrap
around
care
all
giving
each
other
advice
about
the
best
way
of
of
getting
children
to
interact
with
each
other
and
to
build
up
those
social
skills,
but
their
language
isn't
where
it
should
be
speech
and
language
is
really
probably
one
of
the
biggest
impacts
in
terms
of
development,
but
also
I
visited
primary
school
in
my
ward
recently
and
when
we
went
into
reception
class.
K
The
headteach
said
to
me:
you'll
have
to
excuse
these
children
they're
really
wriggly,
because
she
was
saying
they're
not
where
they
should
be
coming
into
reception,
because
they've
missed
so
much
of
preschool.
K
So
just
in
terms
of
their
ability
to
sit
down-
and
it
was
it's
not
where
it
would
normally
be
at
reception,
so
I
think,
as
a
scrutiny
board
and
as
a
sector
working
with
children.
This
is
really
one
to
watch,
because
it's
going
to
be
interesting
to
see
how
this
is
for
this
cohort
of
children
as
they
go
through
through
education,
because
they
have
had
a
really
different
experience.
A
O
Yeah,
I
just
wonder
if
there
are
anything
that
any
recommendations
possible,
because
it's
very
difficult
for
them
at
the
moment
to
put
their
children
on
a
level
and
our
assessments
are
really
difficult
because
they've
all
been
receiving
work
at
home,
but
obviously
it's
delivered
by
parents
in
different
ways
and
because
they've
not
had
that
social
interaction
either.
O
J
So,
just
on
the
just
to
add
to
the
bit
around
the
early
years,
piece
of
customer
is
right
with
the
our
engagement
with
the
child
and
child
care
sector
is
our
route
into
ensuring
that
we
can
get
as
many
children
and
young
people
back
into
services
as
possible
so
that
they
can
benefit
from
that
their
socialization
that
that
brings.
We
have
our
children's
centers
that
do
have
that
child
care.
J
Some
of
our
children,
have
that
child
care
element
as
well
as
family
support
in
the
same
place
so
that
you've
got
those
outreach
workers
that
can
help
you've
also
got
health
service
staff
that
are
co-located
with
those
children
center
staff,
so
any
opportunity
that
we've
got
to
try
and
get
them
engaged
and
through
those
routes
continues
and
some
of
the
formal
parenting
programs
and
that
we,
the
evidence-based
programs
that
we
provide
where
we
haven't
had
as
could
take
up
face-to-face,
are
continuing
online
so
that
we've
still
got
that
level
of
engagement
and
we
we
do
similar.
J
J
In
the
way
that
councillor
bennett
described
with
the
early
year
sector,
so
cancer,
prime
myself
and
others
have
been
engaged
with
them,
and
some
of
those
city-wide
calls
did
move
into
that
space
of
learning
from
each
other
and
giving
each
other
support
about
what
what
they've
tried
and
what
might
work.
J
So
I
think
the
schools
are
really
you
know,
individually
and
through
their
own
networks,
really
strongly
engaged
in
sharing
that
practice
with
each
other,
but
getting
on
with
and
getting
children
back
in,
making
sure
that
they're
settling
into
those
routines,
but
also
paying
attention
to
where
those
where
the
children's
development
is
and
what
they
need
to
help
help
with
what
they
need.
Help
with
on
a
kind
of
individual
and
year
group
basis.
A
Okay,
thank
you,
council
richards.
Please.
D
I
believe
that
these
are
fantastic
opportunities
for
young
people
to
learn
their
trade
to
work
with
their
community
to
do
all
sorts
of
things,
and
I
was
pleased
to
see
in
section
19
on
page
76,
that
you
refer
to
the
fact
that
it's
one
of
the
aspects,
ways
in
which
you're
trying
to
address
the
recruitment
issues.
D
How
much
are
you
working
with
local
schools
in
the
area,
local
to
your
provision
and
local
to
your
communities,
because
I
know
they
are
desperate
to
get
those
kind
of
entries
for
students
in
16
to
19
education,
and
I
think
it
would
be
a
really
good
opportunity
to
address
a
number
of
issues
in
one
fell
swoop,
and
I'd
be
well
welcome
to
support
it.
J
I
can
I
can
pick
that
up.
Councillor
richards,
I
don't
know
it's
the
specifics
and
I
do
know
that
that
the
apprenticeship
program
for
our
for
our
on
children's
centers
is
a
significant
part
of
our
strategy.
Moving
forward
in
terms
of
you
know
the
the
issues,
probably
some
issues
we
had
pre-pandemic
in
terms
of
recruitment
to
that
sector
as
well,
so
we
have
often
relied
on
agency
staff
and
trying
to
reduce
that
the
apprenticeships
have
been
a
strong
part
of
it.
J
But
it's
a
bigger
part
of
that
plan.
Now
those
children
centers
do
have
close
relationships
with
the
with
the
schools
in
their
area
and
obviously
we
have
our
cluster
arrangements
through
which
we
bring
those
schools
together
and
interact,
but
on
the
specifics
around
the
apprenticeships,
can
I
pick
that
up
separately
outside
because
I
don't
know
exactly
what
what
is
happening
with
that,
but
I
can
get
you
an
answer.
A
On
okay,
thank
you.
If
you
could
feed
that
back
to
the
board
as
well,
please
sell
that
would
be
really
useful
hell
on
please
and
councillor.
G
I
seem
to
remember
that
the
early
years
curriculum
has
been
reviewed
or
there's
a
new
curriculum
not
to
fall,
and
I
just
I
know
there
are
certain
strands
that
are
given
priority
one.
You
know
social
emotional
and
I
just
wondered
whether
that
is
there's
anything
in
that.
That's
reflecting
the
situation
that
we're
in
and
the
importance
of
those
key
strands,
and
maybe
others
that
that
need
to
be
prioritized
at
this
time
for
those
children.
K
Neither
of
us
know
the
curriculum
in
enough
detail.
We
do
have
our
head
of.
What's
her
title,
I
had
a
pr
practice.
Improvement
comes
to
the
zoom,
calls
that
that
I
chair
and
she
always
does
an
update
on
what's
happening
in
terms
of
her
world,
and
so
there
has
been
quite
a
focus
on
the
curriculum.
K
It's
a
really
big
issue
for
early
years
providers
at
the
moment,
and
I
think
it
feels
like
it
feels
a
bit
burdensome
with
everything
else
that
they're
dealing
with
having
to
introduce
a
new
curriculum.
At
this
point,
we
can
feed
that
back
to
you
because
I
don't
know
the
detail
of
it.
Well
enough,
although
I
know
we
have
people
in
directorate
who
do
and
are
advised
advising
the
sector
in
terms
of
their
implementation,
because,
as
you'll
know
officer,
that's
starting
to
do
formal
inspections
again
as
well
of
earlier
settings.
G
Well,
I
think
for
me,
in
the
you
know,
in
the
old
or
existing
curriculum,
the
most
important
things
were
those
underpinning
skills.
I
I
just
remember
there
was
a
visual
and
it
was
kind
of
circular
thing
and
that
that
really,
I
think,
should
underpin
every
education,
regardless
what
age
children
are.
I
think
that's
going
to
be
really
really
important,
that
those
skills
are
focused
on
more
than
the
content
really.
K
Do
you
think
this
is
slightly
second
to,
but
I
do
think
part
of
the
challenge
with
austin
and
obviously
you'll
know
this?
Is
it
it's
felt
as
though
they're
actually
working
to
the
same
framework
without
taking
into
account
that
we're
in
a
global
pandemic?
So
I'm
not
sure
when
settings
have
been
inspected,
they've
found
it
that's
supportive
of
the
austin
are
kind
of
saying
it's
supposed
to
be.
I
think
it
feels
like
inspections
always
had
for
our
settings
that
have
been
inspected.
A
Okay,
thank
you.
You
struck
a
cork.
I've
said
a
flurry
of
hands,
so
councillor
senior
did
you
have
okay,
jackie
was
next
and
then
andrew.
Please.
E
I
think
for
me,
you
know
like
if
children
have
missed
out
on
basic
learning
blocks
as
they
called
it.
E
E
I
think
if,
if
children
are
assessed
the
same
way
as
they
always
have
been,
I
think
that
needs
to
go
in
a
sense.
You
know,
and
those
those
kind
of
thoughts
need
to
go
to
government
really,
because
if
children
cannot
be
assessed,
if
children
are
going
in
as
a
four-year
child
and
they've
missed
out
on
preschool
and
things
before
that,
then
how
can
they
be
assessed
like
four-year-olds
three
years
ago?
I
think
that's
that
that's.
E
That
would
be
my
problem
with
the
assessments
right
now,
because
those
children
have
missed
out
in
those
blocks
and
they
have
to
catch
up.
So
how
does
a
child
catch
up
if
they
haven't
had
the
two
years
before,
and
that
goes
in
with
with
all
the
all
the
education
places,
because
even
like
my
son,
for
example,
he
was
constantly
in
bubbles
there
consistently
breaking
and
I
think
in
the
last
two
years
he
hasn't
had,
he
hasn't
been
in
school
as
such,
and
that
he's
just
gone
into
university.
Now,
but
socially,
you
can
see
it.
E
You
can
see
that
he,
he
asked
me
confidence
and
stuff,
like
my
previous
children,
had
starting
at
the
same
goals.
So
if
you're
talking
about
children
very,
very
young,
how
do
we
catch
them
and
how?
How
will
they
be
assessed
because
they
can't
be
assessed
like
before,
and
this
would
be
just
that
cohort
the
people,
all
the
children
that
be
coming
in
now,
they'll
be
back
to
normal
in
another
year
or
two.
But
it's
just
that
cohort
and.
M
E
And
that's
what
worries
me?
Will
they
be
assessed
or
will
those
four
years
be?
Is
it
at
the
end
of
year,
one
or
two
when
they're
assessed
reception
and
whatever,
so
they
won't
be
at
those
foundation
blocks
at
that
point
in
time
and
they'll
be
forever
catching
up?
I
think
I
think
it's
going
to
be
really
really
difficult
unless.
K
You
identify
that's
a
national
issue
to
do
with
assessment.
However,
I
think
what's
really
important
in
terms
of
what
you've
said,
not
only
that
that
cohort
are
going
to
be
in
a
different
place
to
children
who
haven't
lived
through
the
last
80
months
at
their
stage
of
life,
but
also
that
cohort
is
not
a
homogenous
group.
K
So
whenever
I
go
to
children's
centers,
I
ask
them
how
many
looked
after
children
they've
got
how
many
children
would
send
how
many
children
who
come
from
families
with
english
as
an
additional
language
and
how
many
people
premium
so
within
that
group
that
are
going
into
our
early
years
settings
now
they've
had
a
really
different
experience
of
the
last
18
months
and,
as
we
know,
the
pandemic
has
massively
exacerbated
inequalities
that
were
already
there.
So
it's
not,
even
as
though
that
group
just
need
to
be.
K
You
know
caught
up
there,
they're
really
really
different
places
within
that,
and
that's
very
apparent
in
our
settings,
depending
on
the
circumstances
of
the
family
and
things
like
families,
where
they've
got
english
as
an
additional
language,
the
children
aren't
at
a
level
they
would
be
if
they'd
had
contact
with
people
outside
the
family.
So
there's
a
lot
of
inequality
within
that
group
that
are
going
to
be
out
of
sync
anyway,
with
older
and
younger
children.
E
E
You
know,
so
I
don't
know
how
we'll
be
assessed
as
a
council.
Do
you
know
what
I
mean
and
we'll
you
know,
we've
worked
so
hard
over
the
last.
You
know,
as
I
think
I've
been
on
this
for
about
10
years,
to
get
to
a
certain
standard
within
the
city,
but
then,
when
we
cover
then
and
when
all
these
children
are
coming
through
the
system,
everything
will
go
down
because
they
haven't
reached
those
substantial
blocks
in
education,
and
I
think
that
is
a
worry
for.
Probably
all
of
england,
not
just
here.
A
Okay,
thank
you
jackie.
So
andrew
final
word
to
you
on
this
section
yeah
I
was.
H
Just
going
to
pick
on
on
the
point
that
probably
is
made
a
little
bit
by
jackie
now
and
helen
before,
which
was
talking
about
the
earliest
foundation
curriculum,
I
think
the
curriculum
as
a
whole,
regardless
of
the
stage
I
think
earlier,
is
foundation
stage
across
key
stage,
one
key
stage,
two
and
probably
secondary
as
well.
H
It
is
a
real
challenge
for
teachers
at
the
minute
and
I
think
one
that
a
lot
of
them
are
feeling
very
overwhelmed
by
because
ultimately,
children
are
behind
and
haven't
been
taught
a
lot
of
the
milestones
that
they
otherwise
would
have
been
done.
And,
yes,
that's
a
very
mixed
picture,
depending
on
what
the
support
was
at
home,
but
we're
in
a
position
now
where
yes,
it's
very
necessary
for
teachers
to
identify
those
very
particular
things
that
children
need
to
know
and
those
essential
aspects
of
learning.
H
H
You
know
yet
polish
those
very
basic
skills
in
writing
or
reading,
but
when
schools
come
to
offstead
they'll
be
expected
if
the
inspector
so
decides
to
do
a
deep
dive
in
french,
but
actually
kids
are
demonstrating
those
skills
at
the
expected
levels
and
it's
a
real
conflict
for
teachers
and
school
leaders,
and
I
think
it's
going
to
be
a
real
challenge
in
these
coming
years.
You
know
set
against
the
accountability
framework.
G
N
A
comment
on
on
all
of
that
one
of
the
primary
schools
in
my
award
was
inspected
last
week
and
you're
absolutely
right,
andrew.
They
were
most
insistent
about
the
fact
that
the
early
years
hadn't
got
the
didn't,
reflect
the
whole
school
curriculum
structure
in
the
way
that
the
the
other
classes
did
and
they
pushed
and
they
pushed
and
they
pushed
and
they
insisted
it
was
statutorily
required
from
the
1st
of
september,
which,
actually,
I
don't
think
is
the
case.
N
I
think
it's
a
period
of
transition
from
the
first
of
september,
but
they
didn't
make
any
any
sort
of
allowances
for
the
fact
that
those
children
were
behind
in
their
development.
A
Okay,
thank
you
any
final
thoughts,
councillor
venna
or
sal.
K
I've
just
my
my
award
colleague
hannah
bissell,
isn't
here
because
she's
on
adoption
leave
and
she's
just
sent
me
a
whatsapp
saying
who's
in
charge
of
children's
centres.
I
want
to
send
a
compliment
about
the
play
group
I've
been
going
to
so
that
feels
like
a
nice
concluding
comment
that
our
children's
centers
are
obviously
supporting
hannah
and
her
her
new
daughters
very
positively.
So
hannah
can
have
an
input
to
our
meeting,
even
though
she's
not
here.
A
Well,
thank
you
very
much
for
that
and
we
send
her
our
good
wishes
on.
So
our
recommendation
was
to
have
a
full
and
informed
discussion
around
the
information
in
the
report.
I
think
we
can
safely
say:
we've
done
that
so
before
we
move
on,
I'm
gonna
just
have
a
quick
comfort
break,
I'm
hoping
we're
done
for
half
12
or
thereabouts.
So
if
everyone
could
be
back
just
after
ten
two
ready
to
ready
to
go
again,
if
you
just
double
check,
all
the
microphones
are
off.
A
Okay,
welcome
back
everybody
we'll
get
cracking
again,
I'm
keen
that
we
try
and
get
done
for
12
30
if
everyone
could
take
their
seats,
please
so
we're
moving
on
to
item
nine,
which
is
the
ofsted
focused
visit
improvement
plan.
A
A
K
K
The
report
refers
to
the
fact
that
we've
set
up
a
recovery
board
that
sell
chairs
and
we
have
an
action
plan
and
counselor
james
lewis,
the
leader
of
the
council
and
myself
and
sal
and
tom
reading,
have
been
meeting
regularly
to
look
at
it.
So
the
governance
of
this
is
a
very
senior
level
within
the
council.
K
The
report
refers
to
the
fact
that
there's
a
daily
strategy
discussion,
because
the
ofsted
report
focused
on
strategy
discussions
and
they're,
not
being
health
and
police
partners
at
enough
of
them.
So
there's
now
a
daily
meeting,
there's
an
escalation
process
within
health
and
the
police.
If
attendance
isn't
happening
and
the
percentage
of
meetings
has
gone
up
significantly
of
where
all
three
partner
agencies
are
at
the
meeting,
the
report
refers
to
various
various
training
and
support
programs
that
are
in
place
to
support
staff.
K
It
refers
to
a
specific
action
plan
about
duty
and
advice
which
was
focused
on
in
the
report,
and
it
refers
to
a
programme
of
audits
because
needing
to
improve
the
quality
of
audits
was
one
of
the
features
of
the
report
as
well.
I'll
just
leave
my
comments
there
chair
and
this
and
sam
I
want
to
add,
and
then
we
can
take
questions
and
comments.
Thank
you.
J
Defense,
council,
council
alam,
so
I
think
I
covered
this
in
quite
a
bit
of
detail
at
the
last
scrutiny
board.
So
I
won't
go
over
that
ground.
I
think
what
we've
done
here
is
really
just
set
out
and
that
response
formally
for
you
in
writing
you'll
be
aware
that
there
were
areas
of
strength
that
were
identified,
that
we
are
continuing
to
try
and
build
on
given
the
pressures
in
the
service
and
that
we've
identified
the
three
key
areas.
J
I
think
councillor
venice,
covered
immediate
response
in
those
three
areas
and,
as
she
said,
the
strategy
discussions
one
has
been
worked
on
and
we've
also
discussed
that
as
a
safeguarding
partnership.
So
the
three
senior
safeguarding
partners
have
had
a
conversation
about
it
and
the
improvement
report,
I'm
taking
back
into
that
executive
group
as
well
so
well
on
with
all
of
the
actions
that
stemmed
from
the
inspection
so
happy
to
take
any
questions
that
people
have
called.
C
Stevens
sorry
to
disappoint.
One
of
the
aspects
of
the
response
to
findings
was
the
difficulty
of
the
pandemic
in
terms
of
everybody
being
working
from
home.
So
I
think
I
read
some
of
the
50
is
suggested
in
terms
of
office
time.
People
coming
back
in.
I
wouldn't
be
so
crass
to
suggest
that
people
should
get
off
their
pelotons
and
come
back
to
work.
But
do
we
foresee
that
that
is
an
obvious
problem
for
us
and
and
what's
the
staff
reaction
to
coming
back
to
pre-pandemic
style,
working.
J
So
I
think,
since
the
restrictions
have
been
lifted,
we've
been
working
on
making
sure
that
we're
building
confidence
for
people
to
come
back
into
the
workplace
as
much
as
is
necessary,
but
like
with
all
sectors,
including
the
private
sector
and
business
sector.
J
You
know
people
have
also
taken
account
of
the
the
things
that
we
learned
about
during
the
pandemic,
and
I
think
it's
our
intention
to
try
and
take
the
best
from
some
of
the
things
that
we
learned
that
were
positive
about
how
we
operated
during
during
the
pandemic
and
to
combine
those
with
our
traditional
ways
of
working.
J
We
keen
on
plenty
of
face-to-face
interaction,
both
in
terms
of
obviously
in
terms
of
the
services
that
we
provide,
but
particularly
in
terms
of
activities
such
as
calibrate
collaborative
activities
such
as
team
meetings
and
supervision,
support
that
staff
receive
when
and
they
are
in
the
office.
But
I
don't
think
that
that
requires
400
back
in
the
office
in
in
ways
that
we
previously
operated.
Actually,
we've
been
able
to
find
some
significant
efficiencies
in
the
way
that
we
operate
in
terms
of
savings
on
travel
times.
J
Certain
meetings
that
can
take
place
and
remotely
people
are
much
you've
got
much
higher
attendance
at
some
of
those
some
of
those
arrangements,
so,
where
we
are,
is
the
restrictions
were
lifted
at
the
end
of
july,
we've
made
sure
that
all
managers
in
the
service
from
you
know
from
myself
all
the
way
down
are
seeing
their
staff
individually
face-to-face,
but
also
meeting
with
their
teams
on
a
face-to-face
basis.
J
J
Teams
and
people
have
a
duty
system
and
when
they're
on
duty
they're
in
the
office-
and
we
are
moving
towards
a
position
where
people
have
a
much
clearer
idea
about
what
their
longer
term
pattern
might
be,
but
we're
using
the
autumn
as
a
kind
of
opportunity
to
make
sure
every
week
there
is
a
significant
amount,
face-to-face
contact
taking
place
because
we
know
how
important
some
of
that
is
and
then
working
out
longer
term
plans
beyond
that
in
into
next
year.
J
But
at
the
moment
people
are
quite
keen
to
have
that
balanced
face-to-face
approach.
A
So
the
question
I
wanted
to
put
nobody
else
did
was
just
if
there's
any
plan
to
have
any
metrics
as
part
of
this,
so
you
did
say
that
there's
a
significant
increase
in
the
number
of
of
meetings
that
partners
are
coming
to
it'd
be
useful
to
have
sort
of
some
numbers.
So
we
can
measure
progress
over
time.
If
I
don't,
if
there's
an
intention
to
do
that,.
J
Absolutely
so
I
can
bring
the
upstate
figures
next
time.
I
think
there's
something
about
just
allowing
enough
of
a
lag
in
terms
of
reporting
so
that
you
get
the
up-to-date
figures,
but
we
are
for
the
for
the
meetings.
J
The
particular
issue
that
was
raised
was
about
the
not
about
the
strategy
discussions
taking
place
because
they
they
were
taking
place,
but
it
was
where
all
three
partners
were
present
and
the
figure
that
at
the
time
of
the
visit,
was
47
and
that's
now
around
64.
So
we've
seen
a
significant
increase
in
all
three
partners
being
present
and
we're
using
those
escalation
processes
that
councilor
benner
talked
about
to
understand
what
further
barriers
and
there
are.
J
But
if
you
think
about
needing
to
have
a
strategy
discussion
within
24
hours
of
the
contact
arriving
with
the
service,
then
you
rely
on
three
partners
being
able
to
do
that
immediately
and
some
of
the
challenges
sit
within
with
our
partners
in
in
health
and
who
don't?
Who
sometimes
don't?
Have
somebody
immediately
available
to
engage
in
that
strategy.
Discussion
at
that
point
in
time,
but
they're
fully
committed
to
increasing
that
percentage
further
and
we're
working
closely
with
them
on
plans
around
that.
A
J
I'm
happy
to
take
the
go
away,
take
the
recommendations
that
came
from
the
report
and
that
the
strategy
discussion
that
I've
talked
about
there
and
bring
you
the
next
meeting
metrics.
That
say
this
is
where
we're
this
is
where
we
are.
If
that's
that'll,
be,
I
think.
A
That'll
be
really
helpful,
no
problem,
that's
okay
and
the
other
thing
I
was
wondering
from
my
overspread.
It's
quite
some
time
since
I
did
a
visit
to
the
front
door,
and
I
wonder
if
it's
useful,
just
for
a
very
small
working
group
from
the
board
and
myself
and
maybe
a
couple
of
others
to
to
just
go
and
and
have
a
visit
and
again
understand
what
ofsted
we're
looking
at
and
see
for
ourselves.
If
that's
something
that
a
would
be
useful
and
b
could
be
facilitated.
A
Okay,
thank
you,
any
volunteers,
jackie,
oh
lots
of
volunteers
right.
We
might
have
to
whittle
it
down
to
well
we'll
we'll
see
how
many,
how
many
can
be
accommodated
for
a
useful
session
and
and
see.
Okay
right,
we
can
pick
that
up
outside
the
meeting.
A
If
not,
then
I
propose
that
we
we
move
on
the
the
recommendation
is
just
to
note
the
actions
of
the
improvement
plan
and
obviously
we'll
continue
to
monitor,
with
the
suggestion
of
metrics
and
potentially
a
visit
which
will
just
help
to
inform
our
progress
on
this.
I
think
so.
Thank
you
for
that.
A
So
move
on
to
item
10,
which
is
the
inquiry
into
exclusions,
elective
home
education
off
rolling
and
we're
looking
at
the
draft
terms
of
reference
and
always
worth
reminding
us
that
we're
not
doing
the
inquiry
we're
just
checking
the
the
terms
of
reference
are
what
would
have
captured
what
we
want
to
do
so
everybody's
had
the
opportunity
to
look
at
them,
so
I
know
any
board
members.
I've
got
any
queries.
Questions
comments,
yes,
stevenson.
C
Yeah,
I
I
agree
with
the
content
of.
What's
in
the
the
draft
terms,
I
just
have
a
slight,
very
obvious
issue
in
in
programming.
C
In
that
the
three
sessions
that
are
laid
out,
I
I
almost
wonder
whether
we
need
to
do
them
in
reverse
of
what's
set
out
and
we,
I
think
we
should
prioritize
elective
home
education
as
an
issue,
because
we
had
a
conversation
at
a
previous
scrutiny
board
about
the
impact
curve.
It's
had
on
that
and
whether
parents
are
now
sort
of
reassuring
and
coming
back
into
schools
and
academies,
and
that
would
be
very
live
fresh
data.
We
could
access.
C
C
So
when,
when
it
comes
to
the
point
of
of
looking
for
witnesses,
could
you
let
me
know-
and
I'll
put
you
in
touch
with
that
person,
but
the
the
other
issue
is
around
exclusions,
because
the
only
real
deity
we'll
have
at
present
is
so
old
now
that
it
would
almost
be
like
holding
sort
of
marcelo
beezler
to
account
for
their
number
of
goals
scored
in
2017
in
a
way,
so
I
would
suggest
that
we
have
to
wait
until
we
can
have
at
least
a
half
a
year,
if
not
four
years
worth
of
post
covered
exclusion,
data
that
we
could
drill
down
into
because
holding
the
session
next
month
and
looking
at
figures
relating
to
that,
we
don't
have
those
figures.
C
Now
that's
relevant,
it's
so
old
and
for
obvious
reasons
there
weren't
any
exclusions
last
year,
for
example.
So
I
would
flip
it
round
personally
and
and
have
the
the
experience
and
views
shared
first
with
a
focus
on
elective
home
education
and
then
next
year,
when
we
can
assess
some
actual
data,
that's
current
it'll
be
more
more
helpful
to
us.
That'll,
be
my
suggestion.
Chair.
C
Yeah,
so
that's
what
I
say
I
think
from
my
point
session.
One
should
be
the
focus
on
elective
home
education.
Remove
the
the
second
line
there,
which
is
latest
local
figures
relating
to
permanent,
fixed
exclusions.
Take
that
out
and
also
include
the
experiences
and
views
of
people
in
the
first
session
to
flip
that
around
and
then
we
can
come
on
to
look
at
latest
figures
of
permanent
and
fixed
term
exclusions
in
the
last
session,
when
we
can
actually
look
at
fresh
data
would
be
my
suggestion.
Okay,.
E
I
I
would
wish
to
disagree
really,
because
I
just
I
feel
that
looking
at
the
exclusions,
enough
rolling
was
actually
very,
very
much
sort
of
alive
and
what
we
were
discussing
and
also
the
the
elective
home
education
has
become
quite
fluid
now,
and
I
actually
think
that
we
probably
need
to
be
looking
at
the
the
you
know,
the
the
off-roading
that
we
were
so
concerned
about.
First,
because
I
think
they're
still
going
to
be
later
on,
I
think
all
the
home
education.
L
I
obviously
it's
not
my
inquiry,
it's
yours
as
a
board.
I
I
probably
sit
somewhere
between
council
stephen
sending
councillor
for
safe.
I
think
council
stevenson
is
absolutely
right
that
this
is
the
real
live
issue
given
kind
of
covert
and
the
increase
in
number
of
children
who
are
electively
home
educating.
I
think
what
what
is
important
for
the
scrutiny
board
to
look
at
is
those
who
have
kind
of
been
electively
home,
educating
long
term,
perhaps
for
ideological
reasons.
L
You
know,
that's
a
choice
they
made
long
before
covid
and
also
looking
at
those
families
who
have
chosen
as
a
result
of
covid.
So
I
think
when
we're
looking
for
families
who've
chosen
to
do
this,
those
are
going
to
be
quite
different
scenarios
and
then
perhaps
linking
to
to
what
council
stevenson's
saying
kind
of
obviously
bringing
in
evidence
from
those
families
also
looking
at.
If
there's
a
pattern
from
the
schools
in
which
electively
home
educated
children
are
coming,
are
there,
for
example,
a
school
where
nobody's
choosing
to
something
else
could
be
home
educate?
L
Is
there
a
school
where
suddenly
there's
a
massive
rush,
and
I
think
that's
something
important
to
to
to
get
a
hold
of?
It
is
probably
one
of
those
issues.
That's
that's
important
to
look
at
soon
and
then
important
to
revisit
in
perhaps
a
year's
time
to
see
if
there's
kind
of
a
as
we
hopefully
kind
of
just
move
further
and
further
away
from
covid.
Is
there
a
gradual
return,
but
obviously
that's
not
going
to
be
known
for
for
a
long
while.
A
L
I
suppose,
with
off
rolling
there,
there's
not
one
definition
of
off
rolling.
There
are
many
ways
in
which
it
can
be
done,
obviously,
by
kind
of
moving
children
from
the
role
of
one
school
to
another.
Equally,
it
could
be
in
a
school
potentially
pressurizing
families
to
electively
home
education
because
they
don't
want
them
on
the
roll,
and
I
think
that
will
be
something
that
will
be
quite
important
for
the
board
to
look
at
to
see
if
there
are
any
patterns
of
that
anywhere.
N
I
think
off
rolling
and
exclusions
are
absolutely
crucial
for
us
to
look
at,
of
course,
really
important,
but
I
would
advise
caution
in
terms
of
the
figures,
even
when
we've
got
them,
because
I
can't
predict,
but
I
imagine
that
there
will
be
settling
back
issues
and
there
will
be
issues
about
students
coming
back
into
school.
Who've
had
very
different
experiences
and
we're
experiencing
that
already
in
some
schools,
so
how
reliable
the
figures
will
be
even
when
we
have
them.
N
A
But
I
think
it's
probably
it's
quite
likely
that
what's
described
as
session,
three
will
need
to
be
done
not
in
a
formal
board
setting
and
it
will
be
working
groups
and
visits
and
and
it's
about
when
we
can
timetable
that
in
rather
than
in
informal
meetings.
I
that's
probably
how
I
envisage
we
would
address
that.
It
counted
thousands
of
points.
H
A
quick
unchair
because
obviously
I'm
I'm
deputising
on
this
board
and
it's
a
long
time
since
I
looked
deeply
into
education,
but
is
the
plask
date
not
a
key
date
with
regard
to
off
rolling,
and
if
so,
would
you
want
to
hear
that
before
or
after
the
latest
figures
are
out?
I
would
suggest
that
you
do
both.
C
I
agree
with
the
comments
that
were
that
were
made
in
the
round,
and
I
think
my
suggestion
would
be
my
proposal
for
the
edit
would
be
that
what
we've
got
is
session
one
at
present.
The
second
bullet
point
there.
We
just
cannot
do
latest
local
figures.
They
are
not
available.
C
We
are
not
far
enough
in
this
term
and
last
year
there
were
pretty
much
no
exclusions,
because
the
schools
were
shipped
so
to
to
assess
the
latest
local
figures.
We
need
to
push
it
far
enough
away
that
we
can
have
the
the
live
data
and
we
can
look
at
and
taking
councillor
gruen's
point
as
well.
We
could
perhaps
them
through
the
sort
of
process
of
witnesses
and
otherwise
question
some
of
that
data.
Is
it
because
schools
are
trying,
they
might
have
a
change
of
leadership?
C
Some
schools
have
changed,
multi-academy
trusts,
that
kind
of
thing,
and
we
can
look
at
that
and
it's
important.
We
do
look
at
it
and
that's
why
I
think
we
should
do
that
later
on.
I
would
do
what
what
is
session
three
at
present.
C
I
think
we
should
do
first,
so
those
visits
all
those
round
tables
and
working
groups,
which
I
think
we
should
do
early
on
to
get
the
the
feedback
from
people
and
hear
their
their
accounts
for
first
hand,
and
that
would,
I
think,
aid
the
discussion
that
we
would
have
later
later
on.
I
Thank
you
chair,
and
I'm
only
subbing,
so
my
apologies
for
giving
my
view,
but
it
is
my
view,
so
I
think
I
think
in
terms
of
the
the
session
one
like
if
you're
looking
at
the
most
up-to-date
data.
I
understand
I
understand
your
point.
Councillor
stevenson
about
you
need
the
most
up-to-date
data,
but
I
think,
probably
to
have
a
proper
comparison.
I
It
would
be
really
sensible
to
go
back
a
fair
few
years,
maybe
five
years
and
then
you'll
have
that
proper
comparison
throughout
time
and
no
doubt
is
more.
Data
comes
in
you'll,
be
able
to
because
I
mean
I
say
on
market
board,
for
example,
and
you
know
we
we
don't,
we
don't
compare,
we
don't
compare
footfall
with
last
year
because
that
would
be
mad.
I
So
yeah,
that's
my
suggestion.
A
Thank
you,
councillor
forsake.
E
Sorry,
yes,
I
mean
I,
I
would
tend
to
agree
that
we
can't
just
this.
That
has
the
feel
that
you
know
the
pandemic
has
sort
of
like
put
a
bit
of
a
cover
over
that
and
it
hasn't.
You
know
we
need
to
know
what
the
what
was
happening
before
and
it's
so
we've
lost
18
months
or
so,
and
we
can't
just
just
ignore
that,
and
the
latest
figures
may
well
go
back
a
few
years
and
those
do
need
to
be
looked
at.
Okay,.
F
I
I
am
somewhere
between
the
two,
a
bit
like
councillor
prior.
If
we
want
the
most
up-to-date
figures,
then
I
I
can
tell
you
by
november
you
will
have
a
a
decent
picture
of
what's
going
on
in
schools
already,
you
know
it's
it's
it's
apparent
that
schools
are
not
operating
in
the
way
they
would
have
been
doing
in
an
ordinary
november.
The
the
corporate
situation
is
still
having
an
adverse
effect
on
them.
I
mean
the
rates
of
infection
in
school
is
going
through
the
roof.
F
That's
because
the
rules
probably
leaking
as
well,
but
that's
a
different
board.
I
believe
anyway,
but
it
doesn't
stop
accessing
the
historical
one
data
and,
of
course,
you'd
need
that.
But
you
need
the
the
current
ones,
because
you
will
see
it,
you
could
not
you
will.
You
could
maybe
see
a
distortion
that
you
can.
F
You
can
put
down
to
the
impact
of
covid
and
other
things,
so
it's
it's
both
of
those
and
the
experiences
of,
and
views
of,
young
people
and
their
families
about
being
excluded,
and
I
think
it's
got
to
come
later
on
as
well,
because
it
I
don't
know
that
many
schools
will
be
rushing
to
exclude
at
the
moment.
They've
only
just
got
them
back
in.
F
So
I
can't
it's
going
to
take
a
while
before
behaviors
manifest
themselves
to
such
an
extent
that
school
will
decide
that
the
the
better
being
excluded
fixed
term
or
it
probably
would
be
fixed
term.
So
that's
that's
my
observation.
Okay,
thank.
O
Thank
you
chair.
I
just
think
that
we're
going
to
have
to
look
at
a
model,
that's
based
on
post-traumatic
or
post-covered
scenario,
because
otherwise
it's
going
to
take
years
for
the
impacts
of
covid
to
filter
all
the
way
through
the
education
system.
So
I'm
just
wondering
how
it's
like:
how
long
is
a
piece
of
string
or
do
we
look
at
a
new
model?
That's
the
post
covered
base
model
of
our
society
will
operate
anywhere
because
everywhere
is
using
different
ways
of
working
now
and
it's
about
becoming
accustomed
to
that.
So
it's
just.
A
Okay,
thank
you,
council
prayer.
L
I
I
suspect,
on
council
rentals
point:
that's
going
to
be
decades,
I
don't
think,
and
then
there
will
be
some
aspects
that
I
think
will
never
never
fully
kind
of
catch
up.
You
know
this
is
the
enormity
of
covet
doesn't
mean
you
can
just
kind
of
have
a
few
months
of
school
and
then
suddenly
everything's
everything's
back
to
normal.
I
do
I
I
do
agree
in
part
with
council
stevenson
that
almost
there
isn't
there
just
isn't
that
data
there.
So
you
can.
L
You
can
kind
of
look
back
at
the
old
data
and
it's
like
well
isn't
that
interesting,
but
in
some
ways
you
kind
of
want
the
old
data
and
the
new
data
to
actually
see.
If
there's
been
an
improvement-
and
you
know
see
if
we
can
well
build
back
better
to
to
kind
of
phrase-
that's
being
funded
around-
I
I
you
know
it
isn't.
It
doesn't
mean
that
that
data
from
before
covid
isn't
important.
It's
still
vital,
but
actually
you
want
to
make
sure
that
kind
of
our
schools
are
returning.
L
J
Yeah
I
mean
I
tend
to
agree
with
that
position.
I
wonder
whether
I
think
my
only
challenge
with
the
stuff
around
directly
hearing
from
young
people
and
others
and
families
is
whether
we'd
be
able
to
get
a
reasonable
session,
whether
we'd
be
able
to
do
that
in
time
for
the
november
board,
because
we're
already
into
the
cycle
of
of
meetings.
I
know
that
we
at
the
last
scrutiny
board.
J
We
had
an
update
about
where
we
are
from
a
learning
point
of
view,
in
the
same
way
that
we
have
the
social
care
update
today.
I
don't
know
whether
actually
there's
something
about
the
reality
of
what
schools
are
facing
at
this
point
in
time,
because
I
think
attendance
levels
are
lower
than
at
any
point
during
the
pandemic
and
whether
I
know
it's
not
strictly
part
of
this,
but
whether
that
would
be
useful
information
to
be
coming
to
the
board
around.
J
What
does
attendance
look
like
what
our
school
telling
us
that
the
current
challenges
are,
because
all
of
those
factors
do
have
an
impact
on
issues
to
do
with
the
inquiry
that
we're
having
here.
So
you
could
have
a
section
on
that
and
then
I
think
the
elective
home
education
would
be
one
of
those
things
that
will
drop
out
of
that
actually
in
terms
of
where,
where
is
it
at?
J
Because
we're
not
we're
not
seeing
a
we're
not
seeing
a
return
to
pre-pandemic
figures
that
that
inc,
the
spike
and
increase
that
we
saw
in
elected
form,
education
has
stayed
quite
high.
A
Okay,
so
I
think
that
I'm,
I
think,
everybody's
happy
with
the
content
of
the
terms
of
reference.
The
discussion
is
about
what
we
do
when
so.
I
think
that
there's
general
agreement
that
absolutely
right
of
looking
at
elective
home
education
in
november
and
also
the
first
point
on
the
update
on
the
timson
review,
the
bits
in
session
three.
A
They
need
to
be
done
in
a
different
way
and
that's
going
to
be
about
practicalities
of
timing
as
sal
described,
but
we
can
start
to
work
with
the
relevant
teams
to
see
how
and
when
we
can
pull
those
sessions
together
to
get
get
the
most
value
out
of
them.
Whether
we
can,
I
think
it
would
be
a
stretch
to
do
it
prior
to
to
the
november.
C
I
make
a
suggestion,
then,
that
we
for
session
one
which
is
november-
we
delete
bullet
point
two
and
and
do
the
rest
of
that
and
then
in
december
we
do
what
you've
got
a
session
three.
C
B
Yes,
because
the
the
session
two
is
where
we
would
be
looking
to
have
representation
from
local
primary
and
secondary
schools
as
well.
So
I
guess
if
by
turning
them
around
you'll
have
had
the
views
of
the
young
people
and
families
which
then
could
be
presented
to
the
school
leaders
themselves.
So
yeah.
If
the
board's
in
agreement,
we
can
just
swap
those
sessions
around.
G
M
Just
picking
up
on
something
that
sal
said
are
we
looking
at
figures
for
children
who've
reduced
the
hours
in
school,
so
I
know
from
like
my
daughter's
friends:
there
are
a
number
of
children
who
are
only
going
into
school,
very
part-time,
so
one
of
my
daughter's
friends,
you
know,
is
only
doing
one
a
level,
not
three
and
there's
a
big
question
around
what
she's
doing
with
the
rest
of
her
time
and
is
she
required
to
do
anything?
M
But
I
just
you
know
that
seems
to
be
another
thing
that
has
happened
as
well
as
people
volun,
you
know,
being
home,
educated
and
people
are
doing
very
part-time
in
schools
and
making
allowances
for
that.
So
that's
difficult
for
the
school
and
difficult
for
the
parents
and
difficult
for
young
people
as
to
what
comes
next.
You
know,
but
a
lot
of
struggles
with
you
know
the
impact
of
covert
and
mental
health
and
integrating
back
in
just
that,
you
know
the
level
of
education
that
children
are
reaching
in
school.
M
F
If,
if
it's
air
levels
well,
that
there
is
a
certain
flexibility
where,
where
it's
up
to
year
11.,
I
know
some
schools
are
addressing
issues
by
shortening
the
school
day.
F
Whether
the
letting
groups
of
children
attend
at
different
times
is
that
I
don't
know
they
did
that
was
going
on
during
colby.
But
I'm
not
I've
not
heard
that
it's
been
practiced
at
the
moment,
but
some
might
know.
J
I
think
I
think
what
councillor
flint's,
referring
to
corporal
got
this
right,
but
it's
partly
to
do
with
the
offer
that
children
have
in
terms
of
schools
or
sometimes
where
children,
young
people
are
struggling.
J
Schools
are
offering
part-time
timetables
to
try
and
support
them
getting
in
and
reintegrating
them
to
full-time
education,
rather
than
just
running
a
part-time
offer
to
everybody
is
that.
M
Yeah,
I
think
that's
exactly
right
and
I
don't
think
it's
you
know
it's
not
just
a
level
and
I
guess
it
depends
on
the
individual
score.
I
can
only
comment
on
the
score
that
my
children
are
at,
which
is
abby
grange
but
yeah.
I
think
in
all
years
there'll
be
a
number
of
children
only
managing
part-time,
and
it
depends
how
much
allowance
the
school
is
making
for
that.
N
O
Thank
you
I
just
like
to
add
children,
learning
different
ways
and
some
like
to
be
taught
and
shown
others
can
work
from
the
book.
I
just
wondered
like
councillor
brooks,
has
said
that
I
think
it
was
counselors.
No,
it
wasn't
sorry.
It
was
your
colleague
that
some
children
this
year
are
only
going
to
take
one
a
level
rather
than
three,
but
I'm
just
wondering
have
any
idea
over
whether
they're
going
to
be
projected
or
as
undone
on
assessments
or
will
it
be
an
exam?
O
O
A
B
Okay,
thank
you
yes,
so
session
one
is
still
scheduled
for
next
month's
meeting,
which
is
the
third
of
november.
The
formal
meeting
so
I'll.
Remove
the
bullet
point
that
talks
about
latest
figures
that
refer
specifically
to
sort
of
fixed
term
exclusion
rates,
we'll
move
that
to
the
the
later
session,
but
sal
mentioned
about.
Perhaps
we
could
still
have
some
kind
of
general
overview
of
what
attendance
is
looking
like
in
schools
as
part
of
that
first
session,
as
well.
We're
going
to
be
swapping
the
sessions
over
so
session.
B
Two
is
now
going
to
be
around
gathering
the
experiences
of
views
of
young
people
and
their
families.
So
then,
the
session
three,
which
will
now
take
place
in
february,
is
around
the
liaison
with
representatives
from
local,
primary
and
secondary
schools.
O
A
Well,
we
can
try
and
capture
that
through
through
the
inquiry,
that's
the
point
of
trying
to
talk
to
as
many
people
as
possible.
So
we
hear
different
experiences
and-
and
I
think
it's
always
been
presented
to
us
around
elective
home
education
for
some
people,
it's
the
right
thing
and
it's
a
it's
a
positive
choice
for
good
reasons
in
other
cases,
not
so
much
and
that's
what
we're
trying
to
try
to
establish.
C
As
we
come
on
to
discuss
it,
an
officer
might
explain
that
to
her
sister
board,
what
elective
form
education
is:
it's
not
it's,
not
children,
working
at
home
on
zoom,
because
they're
not
attending
school,
it's
parents
who
have
chosen
to
educate
their
own
children.
We
have
to
be
clear
about
the
difference.
A
And
there's
another
category
as
well,
which
I
always
forget,
the
name
of
where
it's
been
decided
that
school
is
not
the
best
place.
I
can't
remember
the
the
right
term
for
it.
No,
no!
No,
it's
not
alternative
provisions.
Sally
might
be
able
to
help
me
out
it's,
but
we'll
come
back
to
it
anyway.
Council
foresee.
E
E
I
I
know
that
we've
got
governors
on
the
board,
but
in
terms
of
witnesses,
there's
not
sort
of
representation
from
you
know
a
chair
of
governors.
I
think
there
needs
to
be
that
one
added
in
really
and
it
was
merely
about
how
how
the
representatives
from
the
young
people
and
their
families
who
are
collectively
home
educated,
would
be
chosen,
especially
after
what
council
prior
was
saying
that
there
are
different
reasons
for
the
elected
home
education
and
also
the
last
one
as
well.
A
Yeah,
well,
it's
something
we
need
to
have
a
discussion,
because
it's
it's
trickier
than
when
we've
done
direct
engagement
with
young
people
in
previous,
because
in
some
cases
we're
talking
about
groups
that
are
very
hard
to
reach
and
will
not
have
agencies
engaged
with
them.
So
it's
going
to
be
tricky,
but
we'll
we'll
try
and
find
a
way
to
to
do
it
and
we've
all.
We've.
We've
always
come
over
these
into
insurmountable
problems
in
the
in
the
past
and
I'm
sure
we'll
find
a
way.
This
time,
cassidos.
H
Absolutely
on
the
same
point:
it's
not
that
children
are
home
educated,
but
it's
about
why
they're
home
educated
and
the
quality
of
the
education
they're
getting
choosing
who
comes
and
talks
to
you
will
actually
cover
the
board's
view.
So
it
is
vital
that
you
get
the
full
range
of
opinions
and
views
to
have
an
educated
and
a
thorough
debate
on
it.
Check.
A
Okay,
yeah,
I
mean
it
will
be
true,
particularly
trying
to
get
people
to
come
forward,
trying
to
find
some
young
people
think
I'm
home
educated.
But
I
think
it's
a
terrible
thing
and
I
wish
I
wasn't
being
how
we
find
somebody
to
tell
us
that
I
don't
know
celia.
F
I
just
wondered
you're,
probably
in
a
better
position
to
know
this.
Is
there
any
research
on
it
any
sort
of
academic
work
being
done
in
this
area,
where
someone
may
have
found
out
more
information
than
we've
got.
J
There
are
previous
national
reviews
that
have
looked
at
the
issue.
Yes,
and
there
was.
There
was
also
a
look
into
it
during
that
time
review
so,
and
we
can
point
to
that.
J
I
think
in
some
ways
the
challenge
there
is
a
challenge,
the
one
that
I
think
council
lands
encapsulated
excellently
really
there,
but
we
can
talk
to
our
staff,
who
will
have
some
intel
about
whether
there
are
families
or
children,
young
people
that
we
could
talk
to
or
that
we
think
that
there's
a
enough
of
an
established
relationship
for
them
to
come
forward.
That
would
be
one
way
to
look
at
it.
I
I
just
think
trying
to
get
a
full
spectrum
of
those
children.
J
Young
people
is
probably
not
likely,
because
how
do
you
get
representation
from
some
of
those
people
who
are
engaging
with
you
on
an
absolutely
minimal
level
and
there's
no
requirement
for
them
to
engage
with
you
on
anything
more
than
that
they're
not
really
going
to
come
forward
and
be
part
of
an
inquiry,
but
we'll
we'll
you
know
we
can
try
and
get
as
broad
as
reach
as
possible.
But
there
may
be
some
intel
on
the
ground
that
people
know
where
they
know.
Families
are
children
that
might
be
able
to
come
forward.
H
Yeah
the
key
to
this,
although
children's
views
are
vitally
important,
are
actually
the
parents
they've
obviously
made
a
choice
for
whatever
reason
to
home,
educate
it
doesn't
mean
to
say
they're
any
good
at
it.
H
You
know
teachers
trained
for
for
many
years,
and
celia
can
tell
me
it's
ongoing
training
to
actually
do
that
job.
With.
With
that
in
mind,
it's
it's
what
the
local
authority
who
in
the
past
and
obviously
I'm
deputizing
some,
perhaps
a
little
bit
out
of
the
loop,
what
the
authority,
what
what
what
it
can
do
to
make
sure
that
all
the
children,
that
home
educated,
get
a
quality
education.
L
I
mean,
I
think
counselor
does
comments,
go
back
to
kind
of
why
parents
are
choosing
to
electively
home
educate,
because
there
will
be
some
parents
who
do
an
incredible
job,
educating
their
children
and
those
are
probably
the
ones.
Who've
made
a
positive
decision
to
electively
home
educate,
probably
prior
to
coverage.
L
To
be
honest,
it's
more,
my
fear
is
those
parents
who
may
have
felt
they've
been
kind
of
forced
or
persuaded
to
electively
home
educate,
and
they
may
be
the
ones
who
are
less
prepared
to
to
educate
their
child
or
or
those
who
there
may
well
be.
Parents
who
have
had
health
concerns
during
cove
had
wanted
shield
so
then
chose
to
kind
of
electively
home
educate
their
child,
so
they
could
shield
more.
I
suspect
it
it's
more.
L
A
Okay,
I
think
we've
got
a
plan.
It's
going
to
be.
We've
got
an
awful
lot
to
get
through
in
the
inquiry.
It's
going
to
keep
us
out
of
mischief
for
a
few
sessions.
I
think,
but
hopefully
it
will
be.
It
will
be
incredibly
valuable.
I'm
sure
it
will.
So
if
everyone's
happy
we'll
move
on
to
item
11,
which
is
the
work
schedule
and
I'll
just
ask
angela
to
to
with
us
through.
B
Okay,
thank
you.
So
this
report
reflects
the
forthcoming
work
schedule.
The
latest
version
set
out
in
appendix
one
for
members
consideration
just
a
couple
of
points
to
highlight
with
regard
to
scrutiny
of
the
budget
this
year.
The
intention
is
to
hold
a
working
group
meeting
in
december
to
enable
the
board
to
be
consulted
on
budget
proposals
falling
within
its
remit.
B
Following
this,
a
formal
session
on
the
budget
proposals
will
still
take
place
as
part
of
the
board's
january,
formal
meeting.
So
once
the
date
of
the
working
group
has
been
confirmed,
then
an
invitation
will
be
circulated
to
board
members
also
in
december
and
obviously
linking
to
the
discussion
that
we've
just
held
around
exclusions
inquiry.
It
is
because
that
again
we
set
up
a
working
group
meeting.
There
is
a
provisional
date
already
in
members
diaries
of
the
1st
of
december
at
10
o'clock.
B
So
if
we
can
try
and
utilize
this
date
and
time
already,
then
then
that's
great,
but
obviously
I'll,
liaise
with
sal
and
the
team
about
potential
dates
and
times
depending
on
the
availability
of
representatives
and
then
the
work
schedule
also
reflects
the
board's
initial
proposal
to
hold
a
working
group
meeting
to
consider
the
implications
of
dfe
guidelines
for
gcse
and
a
level
assessments
for
2022.
B
B
It
is
now
proposed
that
the
board
uses
its
next
planned
meeting
on
the
3rd
of
november,
which
does
include
a
number
of
educational
themed
matters
already
to
receive
a
report
that
formally
updates
the
board
on
the
current
position.
With
regard
to
the
assessment
processes.
A
Yeah,
thank
you
so
council
prayer,
if
you're
happy
with
that,
I
think
our
proposal
will
hang
fire
on
a
working
group
and
and
just
see
where
we
get
to
in
the
in
the
next
meeting
on
those
issues.
A
Nope,
so
final
item
is
the
date
and
time
of
next
meeting,
which
is
wednesday,
the
3rd
of
november
at
20
21
at
10
o'clock,
with
a
pre-meeting
at
9
45
as
usual
back
in
this
room.
Hopefully,
so,
thank
you
very
much
to
everyone
for
your
contributions.
We
got
through
an
awful
lot
again
this
morning
and
look
forward
to
seeing
you
next
month.