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A
I'm
speaking,
thank
you,
Abigail
Marshall
tattooing
is
my
name
and
I
am
the
chair
for
adult
health
and
active
lifestyle
scrutiny
board.
It's
good
to
see
you
all,
and
today's
meeting
has
been
webcast
on
the
council's
website,
so
that
any
interested
members
of
the
public
or
other
stakeholders
who
are
unable
to
observing
person
can
still
observe
remotely.
This
meeting
recording
will
also
be
available
on
the
council's
website.
K
A
Thank
you
could
I
ask
supporting
officers
to
please
introduce
themselves.
Please.
N
Sorry
Richard,
it's
that's
opened
that.
N
A
A
Thank
you
very
much
board
members,
okay
and
before
we
move
into
our
formal
meeting
and
agenda
now,
I
would
like
to
take
this
opportunity
to
welcome
Caroline
barrier
to
her
first
scrutiny
board
meeting
as
our
interim
director
of
adults
and
health.
As
the
board
is
aware,
kathrov
stepped
down
as
director
earlier
this
month
to
take
up
a
new
role
with
the
council
as
the
project
manager
for
social
care
transformation.
I
am
sure
board.
A
Members
will
therefore
want
to
join
me
in
also
paying
tribute
to
care
for
her
achievements
as
director
and
also
for
the
support
she
provided,
especially
to
the
work
of
scrutiny
over
several
years.
Giving
her
new
role
I
am
sure
she
will
continue.
We
will
continue
to
Value
cat's
contributions
at
Future
scrutiny
board
meetings,
so
we
are
now
looking
forward
to
working
closely
with
Caroline
and
her
team
and
I
would
like
to
invite
Carolina
at
this
point
to
make
any
introductory
comments
to
the
board
over
to
You,
Caroline
and
you're.
Welcome.
K
Thank
you
very
much,
I'm
really
pleased
to
be
here
and
we'll
be
attending
all
scrutiny.
Boards
going
forward.
I
haven't
been
for
a
while.
So
it's
really
nice
to
be
here
and
thank
you
very
much
for
your
warm
welcome.
A
You're
most
welcome
and
thanks
for
joining
us
today,
okay,
straight
to
our
formal
meeting
agenda,
now,
I
will
ask
Toby
to
go
through
items
one
to
five
for
us.
Please
thank.
O
You
chair
and
the
agenda
item
number
one:
there
are
no
appeals
against
the
refusal
of
inspection
of
documents
under
agenda
item
number
two.
There
are
no
items
which
would
exclude
the
press
or
the
public
under
agenda
item
number
three:
there
are
no
formal,
later
items
of
business
under
item
number.
Four
can
I
ask
members
to
declare
any
interests
and,
under
gender
item
number
five
no
apologies
have
been
received
for
today.
Thank
you,
Chet.
A
Thank
You
Toby,
please
could
I
ask
that
we
approve
the
minutes
as
a
correct
record
and
that
meeting
was
the
17th
of
January
Dr
Bill
yeah.
You
want
to
come
in.
C
If
I
could
just
raise
a
brief
point
on
item
54
on
the
minutes
which
related
to
the
meeting
held
on
the
17th
of
January
and
in
those
minutes
there
was
mentioned
of
obviously
the
meeting
prior
to
to
that
when
we
discuss
dental
services
and
NHS
England
Emma
Wilson
was
there
from
NHS
England
who
mentioned
that
there
was
currently
being
undertaken,
a
review
of
Community
Dental
Services,
and
the
minutes
mentioned
a
number
of
recommendations
that
this
board
made
about
things
that
perhaps
they
ought
to
include
in
the
review,
and
it
was
alleged
that
the
work
had
been
finished
and
they
were
now
acting
on
some
of
the
recommendations,
because
I
was
uncertain
exactly
about
that.
C
Angela
wrote
to
Emma
Wilson
seeking
clarification,
I
understand
now
that
not
only
has
the
review
not
been
finished
and
they
did
start
last
summer.
So
it's
been
going
on
for
quite
a
while
that
they
don't
intend
to
complete
the
review
until
this
summer.
I
raise
it
now,
because
I
think
we
don't
want
to
let
it
fall.
C
This
board
expressed
an
interest
in
knowing
what
was
in
it.
We
made
recommendations
about
things
they
might
include,
so
I
just
don't
want
to
lose
it
I
just
want
to
say
we
need
to
pursue
that
when
it
is
eventually
published.
A
Thank
you
very
much
Dr
Bill
and,
of
course
you
know,
we
do
know
that
our
Dental
Services,
which
was
the
main
reason
why
we
brought
them
around
the
table,
is
very,
very
important
to
ourselves
and
not
just
to
this,
to
this
group
alone
and
other
five
districts
as
well
have
dental
services
on
their
agenda.
Almost
every
meeting
Angela
could
I
bring
you
in
here
to
kindly
update
us
on
any
correspondence
that
has
been
sent
through
to
ourselves
regarding
this
agenda.
Thank
you.
N
N
That's
subject
to
further
stakeholder
testing
and
engagement,
but
there
is
the
intention
for
the
findings
to
be
published
and
again
the
indicated
sort
of
Summer
period
this
year
and
as
Dr
Bill
mentioned,
there
was
a
commitment
from
this
board
that
we
would
keep
a
watching
brief
in
terms
of
NHS
Dentistry
and
through
the
chair.
N
We
also
circulated
a
letter
that
the
chair
had
wrought
in
her
capacity
as
chair
of
West
Yorkshire,
joint
health
office
and
scrutiny
committee,
because
it's
also
on
their
radar
as
an
area
of
priority,
and
this
was
to
the
Health
and
Social
care
parliamentary
select
committee
who
launched
its
inquiry
in
December,
so
we're
also
eagerly
waiting
the
findings
of
the
national
inquiry,
which
will
also
be
reported
back
to
this
boy
for
consideration.
Thank
you,
chair.
A
N
Thank
you
chair,
so
57
within
the
minutes
relates
to
Performance
update
members
are
recalled
at
reference
was
actually
made
as
part
of
this
item
to
the
Rob
Borough
Leeds
Marathon,
particularly
reference
to
costs
associated
with
taking
part
in
with
the
event,
as
it
was
felt
that
you
know
if
it
could
be
deemed
as
a
potential
barrier
for
most
disadvantaged
groups
and
communities.
So
after
liaising
with
the
organizer
on
this
matter,
the
chief
officer
of
operations
and
active
leads
did
provide
the
written
response
to
board
members
as
agreed.
N
This
was
circulated
last
week
and
within
this
it
summarized
some
of
the
targeted
engagement
initiatives
that
are
actually
in
place
and
just
to
give
that
further
Assurance
to
Bar
members.
That
Community
is
at
the
heart
of
this
event
in
relation
to
minute
number
59.
It's
the
initial
budget
proposals
for
23
24,
again
just
to
confirm
the
board's
deliberations
on
the
relevant
budget
savings
proposals
did
inform
a
composite
report
from
scrutiny.
N
A
Chair,
thank
you
very
much
and
I'd
also
want
to
formally
thank
our
Chief
Operating,
Officer,
Phil,
Evans
and,
of
course,
the
organizers
of
the
rubber
Elites
marathon
on
their
consideration
and
concessions
to
this
agenda
item.
So
thank
you
very
much
from
all
of
us
on
the
board.
Okay,
so
anything
else,
matters
arising
from
January
17th
board
members.
So
do
we
accept
that
as
a
correct
record
of
minutes?
Excellent.
Thank
you
very
much.
Right.
A
Moving
to
agenda
item
number
seven
lead
safeguarding
adults
board
progress
update
so
each
year
the
security
board
welcomes
an
opportunity
to
hear
directly
from
the
Independent
chair
of
the
lead
safeguarding
adults
board
within
the
agenda.
Pac
members
have
been
provided
with
a
progress
report
in
relation
to
the
safeguarding
adults
board,
which
draws
upon
its
annual
report
for
2021
and
2022
its
progress
against
a
strategic
plan
for
2022
and
2023,
and
some
early
thinking
about
its
Ambitions
going
forward.
A
So
I
will
now
invite
participants
to
kindly
introduce
themselves
and
Richard
because
Richard
was
so
keen
and
Fiona
can
we
allow
Richard
to
introduce
himself
first
right
over
to
you
Richard
well,.
M
E
A
M
No
I
haven't
got
anything
I'm
sharing
I'm
going
to
just
introduce
the
reports.
Is
that
okay,
yeah,
okay?
Well,
it's
as
I
say
it's
good
to
be
back
and
I.
Think
I
was
here
last
year
and
I
think
the
year
before
too.
So
it's
it's
really
good
to
have
the
opportunity
to
explore
what
the
safeguarding
adults
board
in
Leeds
is
doing
it's
challenges
and
how
it's
working
with
its
Partners
across
the
city
and
that's
not
just
the
statutory
Partners,
but
importantly,
third
sector
voluntary
sector
organizations,
Community
organizations
too.
M
So
what
I
wanted
to
do
very
quickly,
because
you've
got
lots
of
paper
in
front
of
you
and
and
I'm
happy
to
speak
to
any
of
that
I
know
it's
fantastic
I've
got
three
colleague
board
members
with
me:
councilor
Vena
sits
on
the
board,
Caroline
sits
on
the
board
and
Shona
does
too
so
between
us.
We
will
I'm
sure,
be
able
to
pick
up
and
explore
the
issues
you
want
to
take
forward
this
afternoon.
So
the
document-
that's
probably
the
most
historic
in
here-
is
our
annual
report
for
2122.
M
But
it's
there
for
for
information.
It's
a
statue
requirement
of
a
safeguarding
board
to
produce
an
annual
plan
and
also
an
annual
report,
so
we're
bringing
it
here
for
your
for
your
interests
and
scrutiny
alongside
that.
You've
got
a
report
that
just
provides
an
update.
M
It's
the
first
report,
which
provides
an
update
of
work,
that's
happening
at
the
moment,
and
alongside
of
that,
you
have
the
peer
review
that
was
undertaken
by
a
team
that
came
in
nearly
a
year
ago
now
to
look
at
how
well
we
were
doing
across
our
partnership
in
Leeds,
so
obviously
happy
to
explore
any
of
those
issues
with
you,
I
think
just
a
bit
of
context
from
me
before
I
I,
open
it
up
to
yourself
and
your
colleagues
I
think
what
we
are
seeing
as
a
board
and
I'm
sure
this
isn't
just
a
leads
issue,
and
it's
not
just
a
safeguarding
adults
issue.
M
I
think
we're
moving
from
the
kind
of
pandemic
and
ways
of
working
that
had
to
be
established
at
that
point
to
ensuring
that
we're
working
effectively
together
as
we
move
Beyond
covid-19,
but
we're
doing
that
in
the
context.
M
As
you
will
all
be
completely
aware,
as
reward
counselors
of
significant
challenges
for
individuals,
for
families
and
for
communities
and
particularly
vulnerable
and
our
most
vulnerable
citizens,
who
will
always
potentially
feel
the
impact
of
those
issues
most
keenly
and
it's
in
the
context
too
I
think
of
Frontline
staff
and
agencies
really
having
to
work
flat
out
to
manage
demand.
M
That's
Rising,
I
think
both
as
a
result
of
the
cost
of
living
crisis
as
a
result
of
mental
health
and
well-being
issues.
As
a
result
of
the
pressure
that
communities,
families
and
Community
groups
are
are
struggling
with.
So
what
you
see
in
in
the
work
that
we're
doing
is
we
we
are
seeing
an
increase
in
the
level
of
concerns
that
have
been
raised
about
adult
safeguarding.
M
So
there's
a
there's,
a
context
to
that.
But
I
think
that's
a
good
thing.
I
I,
don't
think,
there's
a
a
position
to
which
we
would
get
where
we'd
think.
You
know
what
we've
we've
maxed
out
on
the
on
the
ability
to
enable
people
to
speak
up
and
have
their
voice
heard
in
often
very
very
difficult
circumstances,
so
we're
seeing
concerns
rise
and
in
Leeds
they've,
risen,
11
and
with
the
figures
you
have
in
front
of
you
over
that
year
of
21
22
and
they
continue
to
rise
as
we
speak.
M
That's
against
the
national
trend
of
an
increase
of
about
eight
percent
and
a
picture
of
growth
over
the
last
five
six
seven
years
and
as
I
say,
I,
don't
think
that's
something
to
get
concerned
about.
I
think
that's
a
real
sign
of
people
getting
their
heads
around
and
understanding
what
adult
safeguarding
means
and
how
and
in
what
ways
they
can
get
support.
M
What
we've
seen
in
Leeds,
which
is
slightly
different
to
the
National
picture,
is
that
we
haven't
seen
an
increase
in
when
those
concerns
are
taken
into
an
investigation,
section,
42
inquiry.
Those
have
remained
broadly
the
same
and
I
think
the
adults
and
health
are
doing
a
whole
range
of
things
to
ensure
that
they're
making
appropriate
responses
again
nationally,
there's
been
a
more
significant
increase,
but
we're
we're
kind
of
holding
a
line
in
leads.
I.
Think
the
other
thing
I'd
just
say
about
the
figures.
M
Is
that
increasingly
it's
it's
issues
around
self-neglect
or
acts
of
omission
that
are
at
the
heart
of
the
kind
of
issues
that
individuals
and
families
bring
when
they
come
to
the
attention
of
services
and
that
again
is
kind
of
reflective
of
a
national
position.
I
think
the
positive
thing
that
I
would
want
to
report
and
underline
is
that
when
people
people
engage
with
the
safeguarding
system,
then
nine
for
nine
out
of
ten
people.
M
They
are
either
reporting
directly
or
through
a
third
party
that
the
risks
and
the
concerns
and
the
worries
that
they
had
have
either
been
reduced
or
eliminated
as
a
result
of
the
engagement
they've
had
with
social
care
services,
health
services
and
and
Community
Services
I
think.
The
other
thing,
I
would
just
say
quickly
is
that
we
continue
to
work
with
our
four
priorities.
M
That
is,
that
we
Endeavor
to
be
citizen-led,
that
we're
led
by
people's
real
experience
and
that
it's
that
that
defines
the
quality
and
the
type
of
interventions
that
we
make
and
we've
continued
to
build.
Our
our
work
with
the
friends
of
the
board,
with
a
reference
group
and
with
a
whole
range
of
listening
events.
M
M
Think
one
of
the
positive
things
we've
done
this
year
with
the
support
of
voluntary
action
leads,
is
to
engage
with
ethnically
diverse
communities,
including
for
the
first
time
the
Chinese
community
in
Leeds
to
understand
what
it
is
that
their
experience
in
the
way
in
which
they
can
access
services
and
the
sort
of
information
they
need
to
to
encourage
young
people
to
come
forward
in
often
different
cultural
circumstances
and
then
at
the
third
priority
for
us
is
to
continue
to
work
with
others
at
a
city-wide
level,
whether
that
be
around
collaboration
with
safer
leads
or
the
children's
partnership,
but
with
a
real
Focus
this
year
on
self-neglect
and
I'll
work
around
how
we
support
practitioners
who
have
really
complex
situations
to
deal
with
and
the
developments
of
our
exceptional
risk
for
and
which
Shona
chairs.
M
For
us
on
behalf
of
the
partnership
and
then
our
final
Strat
priorities
is
ensuring
that
we
continue
to
learn
and
enact
and
can
demonstrate
that
we're
making
a
difference
so
that
we
undertake
safeguarding
our
reviews.
I'm
happy
to
talk
about
some
of
those.
But,
more
importantly,
we
can
demonstrate
that
those
reviews
are
leading
to
changes
in
practice.
Changes
in
approach
and
the
building
of
confidence
in
communities
to
come
forward
and
share
with
us
their
concerns
and
there's
a
whole
range
of
work
there
around
mental
capacity
out
the
whole
fire
safety
multi-agency
working.
M
That
I
could
talk
about,
but
I'm
not
going
to
say
too
much
more
now
and
then
finally,
chair,
just
to
say
that
we've
been
really
well
served
as
a
board
by
people
acting
board
members
acting
as
champions
for
key
areas
of
work
and
taking
ownership
for
key
themes
within
our
strategy.
So
I
want
to
thank
our
Champions,
but
two
other
comments
as
well.
M
Firstly,
it's
just
to
recognize
that
as
we're
having
this
meeting
front
line
staff,
whether
they
be
in
Health
social
care
in
housing
in
some
of
our
community
organizations,
are
dealing
as
we
speak
with
complex
and
challenging
circumstances
and
we're
only
ever
as
good
as
the
people
who
are
there
delivering
our
policies
and
procedures
and
I.
Think
as
I
said
at
the
start,
in
the
context
of
significant
Challenge
and
demand,
we
just
need
to
recognize
the
work.
That's
going
on,
often
as
a
board.
M
What's
not
working
well,
but
as
much
of
the
conversation
was
about
recognizing
and
and
valuing
what
is
working
well
and
and
you've
said
something
that
you
I
just
wanted
to
say
too,
and
it
was
really
to
say
thank
you
to
cat
for
her
contribution
to
the
board
and
for
her
passionate
leadership
and
challenge
around
the
safeguarding
agenda.
It's
it's
always
great.
M
A
Thank
you
very
much
Richard
for
that
great
presentation
and
to
just
yeah
I'll
bring
you
in
winner
just
to
say
thank
you
and
lend
our
voice
to
to
to
the
team.
I
mean
the
report
is
very,
very
comprehensive.
All
of
you
will
agree
with
me
and
what
I
really
liked
about
this
report.
Apart
from
all
the
positives
that
you've
put
down
for
us
to
see,
the
challenges
are
also
glaring
and
you
were
not
afraid
to.
Let
us
know
what
the
challenges
are.
A
E
Yeah,
thank
you.
I
just
wanted
to
add
a
couple
of
points.
I
sit
on
the
board
as
Richard
referred
to
I.
Think
it's.
It's
very
clear
in
the
report
that
the
lead
safeguarding
board
has
a
very
strong
focus
on
citizens
being
at
the
heart
of
our
work
and
it's
a
particularly
strong
spread
in
the
annual
report.
That
hear
me
hear
my
voice,
hear
my
safeguarding
story.
Ethos
I,
have
to
say
the
partnership
with
Advent,
that's
fantastic
and
that's
meant
the
voices
of
particularly
people
with
learning
disabilities
has
been
really
strong
in
our
work.
E
E
As
Richard
said,
we've
done
the
specific
work
with
people
from
diverse
communities
and
the
listening
event
in
December
was
fantastic.
When
we
heard
really
directly
from
people
about
their
experiences
of
safeguarding
and
again,
that's
been
facilitated
by
small
Grassroots
third
sector
organizations
that
we
work
in
partnership
with
Richard
referred
to
the
work
around
self-neglect.
E
That's
been
a
really
strong
theme,
because
we've
had
some
serious
incidents,
including
deaths
that
we've
we've
looked
at,
where
self-neglect
has
been
a
strong
element
and
we're
really
aware
that
the
pandemic
and
lockdowns
raise
the
risk
around
that,
and
particularly
because
people
weren't
necessarily
going
into
other
people's
homes
and
not
not
necessarily
care
stuff
because
actually
a
feature
of
people
who
self-neglect
is
they're,
often
people.
You
know
who've
got
capacity
and
and
choose
not
to
engage
with
services.
E
But
during
the
pandemic
you
didn't
have
people
like
housing
officers,
people
doing
repairs,
delivery
drivers
going
in
for
people's
thresholds,
so
we've
got
a
really
great
self-neglect
strategy
and
it's
got
people
from
across
the
council
working
on
it,
but
also
outside
the
council.
It's
a
really
strong
partnership
in
terms
of
cross-council
and
partners,
and
it's
got
people
on
it
like
senior
housing
offices,
because
we
know
that
for
some
people
the
only
people
that
will
get
Across
the
Threshold
are
housing
officers
doing
the
tenancy
checks.
E
But
then
it
then
it's
equally
important
that
Mia's
Liberty,
who
do
I
repairs,
who
do
our
gas
safety
checks,
are
aware
of
what
to
look
out
for
so
that's
felt
like
a
very
important
piece
of
work,
involving
lots
of
different
organizations
and
different
teams,
and
this
report,
the
annual
report,
which
is
an
appendix
this,
but
went
to
the
executive
board.
So
we've
had
a
discussion
at
exact
blood
recently
around
the
safeguarding
adults.
Work
and
you've
also
got
our
peer
review.
E
A
Thank
you
very
much.
Councilor
Bennett,
yes
over
to
you,
councilor
Gibson,.
G
Thank
you,
and-
and
thank
you
for
this
report
as
well
and
for
all
the
the
good
work
you've
been
doing.
That's
that's
clear
in
in
this
report.
I
just
wanted
to
ask
you
a
quick
question.
In
my
experience,
a
sort
of
lower
level
safeguarding
concerns.
Perhaps
you
know
it
doesn't
even
reach
section
42,
but
even
if
it
does
it's
lower
level,
it's
around
neglect.
It's
around.
Perhaps
people
that
have
that
are
care
for
and
a
supported,
living
or
residential
setting.
G
G
We've
got
our
hands
on
the
on
the
levers
of
power
to
be
able
to
do
something,
whether
that's
sort
of
make
you
know,
revisit
the
care
plan
or
work
with
parents
or
put
in
extra
carers
or
whatever
it
might
be,
but
where
there
tends
to
be
a
bit
of
a
gap
in
my
experience
is
when
people
perhaps
lack,
have
fluctuating
capacity
or
they
do
have
capacity,
but
are
certainly
vulnerable
and
that
they
may
have
learning
borderline
learning
disabilities
or
learning
difficulties
and
and
they're
being
targeted
in
in
a
criminal
way.
G
D
M
Thanks,
thank
you.
Councilor
Gibson,
yes,
so
and
colleague
other
colleagues
might
want
to
come
in
too,
but
the
police
are
a
key
partner
with
us.
We
have
the
Dan
wood,
who's
superintendent
for
neighborhoods
and
Partnerships
on
board,
and
they
are
absolutely
tied
into
the
the
the
the
shared
approach
and
not
policies
and
procedures,
but
I
think
you
you're
right.
M
I
think
that
we
have
to
recognize
that
resources
are
stretched
and,
while
I
think
policing
numbers
are
coming
back
as
part
of
the
national
strategy,
possibly
in
Leeds
I'm,
not
I'm,
not
able
to
make
too
many
comments
about
that.
But
so
police
numbers
might
be
recovering
a
little
bit,
but
the
reality
is
I.
Think
is
that
people
are
stretched
and
I.
Think
that's
when
you
really
have
to
get
down
to
confidence
of
local
working
arrangements.
M
So,
as
you
say,
the
reality
should
be
that
if
somebody
has
got
care
and
support
and
he's
done
unknown
to
the
council,
as
you
were
highlighting,
we
should
feel
pretty
confident
that
those
needs
will
be
monitored
and
kept.
People
kept
aware
of,
but
I
think
The
Challenge
we've
got
and
we
and
we're
working
with
the
police
and
other
partners,
too,
is
how
you
keep
Frontline
staff
alive
to
and
curious
about,
hang
on
a
minute
what's
happening
here.
M
So
we
know
that
people
are
people
with
limited
capacity
are
probably
at
more
risk
of
being
targeted
by
other
people
in
their
neighborhood
or
Community,
and
that's
where,
as
Council
Levin
has
suggested,
we
need
people
who
are
on
the
front
line
if
you
like,
not
just
police
housing
officers,
Community
workers
being
alive
to
hang
on
a
minute
what
what
might
be
happening
here
so
through
the
training
we
do
and
through
the
the
overall
kind
of
work
of
the
board,
we're
absolutely
wanting
to
ensure
that
we're
not
just
there
to
pick
people
up
when
they've
experienced
significant
safeguarding
issues
and
our
self-neglect
strategies.
M
One
of
its
key
aims
is
around
prevention
and
I.
Think
it
comes
down
to
the
quality
of
local
working
relationships,
confidence
between
practitioners
at
the
front
in
a
community
and
the
ability
and
the
willingness
for
people
to
pick
the
phone
up
and
say
I've
just
got
an
issue
here.
How
do
I,
how
do
I
help
and
I
think
that's
one
of
the
challenges
that
we're
seeking
to
meet
and
the
work
we're
doing
with
Community
organizations?
M
It's
how
we
build
confidence
and
capacity
in
local
organizations
to
feel
do
you
know
what
we
can
probably
manage
this
situation,
but
but
let's
just
have
a
quick
check
in
with
the
beat
body
Bobby
Bobby.
M
Let's
have
a
quick
check
in
with
the
mental
health
nurse
who
might
be
in
involved
too,
and
it
also
requires
people
and
we've
got
work
to
do
on
this
too,
to
feel
confident
about
information
sharing
and
to
feel
that
actually
that
they
aren't
hide
Bound
by
a
set
of
rules
that
prevent
us
doing
our
best
for
for
an
individual.
M
So
it's
a
long
response
to
what
I
think
is
a
real
challenge
that
you're
flagging
and
I
think
we
as
a
partnership
as
a
board,
are
wanting
to
and
are
seeking
to,
encourage
through
training,
development
and
and
learning
about
what
works,
to
ensure
to
ensure
that
those
type
of
conversations
happen
and
that
we
build
or
seek
those
relationships
being
built.
M
So
Shona
Caroline
might
say
want
to
say
something
about
the
neighborhood
teams
and
you
know,
there's
a
whole
range
of
building
blocks
where
you're
only
really
as
good
as
the
quality
of
the
the
ability
of
Frontline
colleagues
to
talk
to
each
other.
Often.
E
We've
had
some
really
really
interesting
conversations
all
about
capacity,
because
I
would
say
in
some
ways
it's
one
of
the
biggest
challenges
that
staff
are
working
with,
where
I
think
where
people
have
not
not
ever
got
capacity
in
some
ways
it's
clearer,
but
where
we've
particularly
been
having
these
discussions
is
around,
say,
substance
use
where
people
are
sometimes
capacitors
and
sometimes
not,
and
these
are
some
of
the
situations
where
people
have
refused
intervention
from
other
organizations
and
from
support
agencies
and
have
the
capacity
to
do
so.
E
So
we've
kind
of
identified
really
and
we've
had
some
really
fantastic
support
from
academic
colleagues.
Who've
undertaken
some
of
our
reviews
around
the
mental
capacity
Act
and
the
mental
health
act
and
some
of
the
limitations
of
those
there's
a
real
Gap
in
the
mental
capacity
around
substance
use,
for
example,
you
know
you
can't
in
law,
make
make
someone
go
through
a
detox
and
Rehab
program.
You
just
you
know,
that's
not
lawful
and
I.
Think
when
you've
got
people
who
are
really
leading
really
have
really
complex
needs
and
leading
quite
chaotic
lives.
E
What
what
you
really
need
is
time.
You
know
workers
need
loads
of
time
to
be
able
to
spend
with
people
and
build
up
their
trust,
and
that's
one
of
the
things
that's
been
compromised
as
organizations
of
face
cuts,
so
that
kind
of
assertive
Outreach
that
happens
in
the
statutory
world
and
in
the
third
sector
that
that's
a
really
a
really
well
researched
approach
to
supporting
people
with
really
really
complex
needs
and
that's
yeah.
That's
one
of
the
real
challenges
that
I
think
we
face
in
safeguarding
work
is
the
is
around
issues
of
capacity.
I.
E
Do
think.
The
exceptional
risk
form
that
we've
set
up
is
a
really
good
way
of
addressing
that,
though,
that's
a
particular
Forum
where
people
can
discuss
people
you
know
from
different
agencies,
can
get
together
and
discuss
the
really
complex
cases,
and
that
feels
like
a
safeguard
in
relation
to
you
know:
people
not
not
just
disappearing
and
falling
between
organizations
because
they're
too
difficult,
and
they
don't
want
to
engage
so
it's
a
really
challenging
work,
but
it
feels
like
we've
got
really
good,
Partnerships
and
structures
to
be
able
to
address
the
challenges.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you
very
much.
Councilor
venner,
have
you
got
a
follow-up
question
here
so.
G
Thanks
for
describing
the
work
that
you're
doing
to
sort
of
work
collaboratively
with
different
different
professionals
and
organizations
to
identify
safeguarding
rest
and
pass
it
on,
that's
really
important
and
and
I'm
glad
that
you
sort
of
acknowledge
that
and
you're
doing
that,
I'm
glad
as
well,
that
you
sort
of
you're
talking
about
their
issues
of
capacity,
whether
it's
fluctuating
capacity
or
whether
it's
somebody
who
has
capacity
in
some
areas
and
not
other
areas
but
I,
guess
the
the
model
that
you're
describing
there
is
around
engagement
and
reducing
Risk
by
taking
the
person
out
of
the
risky
situation.
G
So
if
the
engagement
would
say
somebody
with
substance
misuse
or
somebody
with
moderate
learning
disabilities
engaging
with
them,
even
if
they
you
know
if
they
are
refusing
to
engage
in
reducing
Risk
by
trying
to
take
them
out
of
the
situation
in
that
sort
of
way.
But
what
what
I'm?
What
I'm?
I'd
like
you
to
to
to
comment
on
is
in
those
situations
if
they
are
the
victims
of
crime,
it
is
for
the
police
at
that
point
to
take
action
against
the
criminals
that
are
targeting
them.
G
So
especially
people
with
with
moderate
learning
disabilities
or
learning
difficulties
that
are
often
targeted
by
by
by
criminals
and
and
are
exploited
financially
or
whatever
it
might
be,
and
at
that
point
obviously
there
is
a
question.
It
is
difficult
for
the
police
or-
and
they
understand
that
it's
difficult
for
the
police,
but
they
will
often
cite
that
there's
a
difficulty
with
regards
to
evidence
and
reliability
of
evidence
and
it's
difficult
because
they
they
they're,
refusing
to
engage
with
them.
G
But
it
still
stands
that
they
they're
as
criminal
people
out
there
taking
advantage
of
them
and
it's
for
the
police
to
take
action.
So
what
are
we?
What
are
we
doing
to
try
and
improve
that
situation
and
try
and
encourage
the
police?
So
if
we
are
doing
that
to
actually
take
action
against
criminals
that
are
targeting
vulnerable
people.
M
Yeah,
okay,
Council,
coops
I
can't
answer
all
of
that
question
because
that's
not
for
me
to
speak
on
behalf
of
a
partner
agency
and
what
I,
what
what
I
can
say
is
that,
in
relation
to
the
learning
that
we've
done,
the
reviews
we've
undertaken,
the
Thematic
work.
We've
done
that
hasn't
been
an
issue.
So
so
it
hasn't
hasn't
come
to
the
board's
attention,
through
kind
of
our
responsibilities,
to
review
what
what's
not
worked
and
what
has
hasn't
worked.
M
So
it
sounds
to
me
as
a
you
know
that
there's
a
set
of
questions
you
might
have
as
scrutiny
committee
or
some
security
piece
you
might
have
around
safer,
leads
in
relation
to
exploring
whether
you
feel
the
police
here
in
the
lease
District
are
doing
what
they
need
to
be
doing
it,
but
but
on
behalf
of
the
board
I'm,
not
in
a
position,
I'm
afraid
to
make
any
further
comment
on
that:
I'm
not
seeking
to
to
dodge
it,
but
I'm
you're,
you're
you're,
inviting
into
a
space
that
I'm
I'm
not
able
to
speak
to
I.
M
R
No
I'm
quite
happy
to
come
in
Angela
Gibson
you
described
as
as
I
think
you're
well
aware,
some
of
the
most
challenging
aspects
of
the
work
that
we
do
in
social
work
and
well
I'm,
not
saying
everything's,
perfect
I
came
across
a
case
last
month
where
we
had
a
gentleman
who
was
being
exploited
financially
by
his
neighbors.
They
were
moving
into
his
flat.
They
were
taking
his
bank
card,
they
were
using
his
resources
and
he
was
permitting
that
to
happen
because
he
perceived
those
individuals
as
friends.
R
So,
as
you
know,
in
Leeds
we've
got
safeguarding
and
Risk
Managers,
who
are
senior
social
workers
who
are
extremely
skilled
in
this
area
and
the
safeguarding
and
risk
manager
in
that
situation
got
alongside
that
individual
supported
them
to
access
to
support
the
police
were
offering,
and
the
police
were
then
able
to
ensure
that
those
individuals
had
no
longer
had
access
to
his
flat
and
were
forbidden
forbidden
legally
from
having
any
contact
with
him.
R
So
that
worked
very
well
that
built
on
what
Richard
was
talking
about
in
terms
of
the
locality
relationships
that
we
have
knowing
who's
in
the
locality
that
you're
working
in
knowing
your
fellow
professionals
and
working
extremely
well
with
them.
So
I
think
that's
a
an
example
of
when
we
know
that
it
can
work
and
I'm
sure
it
doesn't
work
as
perfectly
that
they'll
like
that
all
the
time.
But
we
do
get
the
support
in
our
neighborhoods.
So
thank
you.
G
Go
on
record
I
feel
think
you're
doing
a
brilliant
job.
It's
just
a
lot.
There
is
a
gap,
there's
a
gap
there
I
know
because
I've
been
pulling
my
hair
out
for
for
the
past
seven
years
that
I've
been
practicing
social
work
when
I've
worked
with
people
learn
disabilities
that
fought
through
those
gaps
and
it
needs
highlight
and
I
mean
I
wouldn't
be
doing
the
job.
If
you
know,
if
I
didn't
highlight
it,
but
I
do
think
you're
all
doing
it
and
I
think
leaders
does
it
does
a
fantastic
job,
in
particular
at
safeguarding
adults.
A
Thank
you,
counselor
Gibson.
The
only
reason
why
I've
allowed
him
go
on
because
that's
his
lived
experience
every
day,
so
I
do
know
he
knows
what
he's
talking
about.
So
thank
you
very
much.
I've
got
three
people
on
this
agenda
and
I
would
only
take
three
because
we
need
to
move
on
to
the
next,
so
is
Dr
Bill,
first
councilor
hackbrick
and
then
councilor
Taylor
and
we'll
move
on
to
the
next
agenda.
Thank
you.
C
Thank
you,
chair,
two
I
hope
very
quick
questions.
Looking
at
page
20
of
the
bundle
and
Richard
has
made
comments
already
about
the
increase
over
the
past
few
years,
roughly
it
over
the
three
years
or
40
increase
in
the
number
of
of
referrals
and
of
course,
there
are
two
possible
reasons
for
that.
One
is
the
one
which
Richard
explained
he
believes
to
be
the
case,
and
that
is
that
people
are
actually
getting
better
at
reporting
when
abuse
takes
place.
C
The
more
negative
one,
of
course,
is
that
the
number
of
abuses
is
increasing,
so
I
just
wondered
whether
he
could
say
what
is
there
about
his
experience,
which
says
it's
the
former
rather
than
the
letter
and
the
other
one
relates
to
the
proportion
of
safeguarding
inquiries
which
are
pursued
at
25.
Well,
that's
three
thousand
of
those
cases
where
there
is
a
a
a
safeguarding
inquiry,
but
that
leaves
another
nine
thousand
percent
with
some
someone
somewhere
has
expressed
a
concern.
C
A
J
Slightly
concerned
that
my
my
taxing
is
quite
it's
quite
mathematical,
it's
page
four
and
you're
21
22
report
or
page
36
in
the
agenda,
which
is
around
the
ratio
between
I'll
change,
the
numbers
of
referrals
and
inquiries
and
I'm
just
really
struck
by
the
numbers,
because
they're
quite
big
numbers.
So
taking
the
two.
You
know
extremes
of
dates,
because
the
trend
is
the
same.
So
between
2018
and
2022,
where
the
40
increase
in
referrals
and
I
think
you
said
there
wasn't
a
sign.
J
It
wasn't
any
significant
change
in
inquiries,
but
actually
there
is
it's
down
by
12
and
I'm,
just
wondering
what's
actually
driven
that,
because
I
can't
think
of
any
other
service
where
requests
for
help
are
going
up,
but
actually
we're
doing
less
now
it
could
be.
There
could
be
a
very
amazing
reason
for
it,
because
it
could
be
that
I
should
be
dealing
with
it
in
more
creative
ways
or
we're
filtering
better,
and
the
increase
in
reports
could
be
because
people
feel
more
empowered
and
able
to
report,
but
obviously
the
the
there's
something
significant
happened.
H
Is
the
question
as
such?
It
was
following
from
counseling
games,
but,
firstly,
I
say
thank
you,
Richard
Chana
left
in
you
for
the
work
and
Fiona
for
the
work,
what
you're
doing
and
adult
social
care
you're
doing
the
best
you
can
in
ladies
and
lazy
standard,
but
mine
is
Page
20
nature
of
concerned,
which
is
neglect
physical
abuse,
Financial
abuse.
Is
that
question?
It's
just
a
comment
from
similar,
because
some
of
these
is
happening
indoors
with
families
who
neglect
and
abuse
Financial,
wise
and
the
individuals
are
scared
to
speak
out.
H
The
police
can
only
deal
with
what
in
front
of
them
and
the
police
can't
do
as
much
as
they
would
have
liked
to
do
without
the
evidence,
because
when
they
do
go
to
question
the
individuals,
the
individual
to
say
no
I'm
fine,
because
the
same
abuser
is
sitting
there
in
front
of
them
and
they
are
scared
of
saying
what
they
would
want
to
say,
and
this
is
where
I
uphold
you
for
what
you
are
doing
for
the
numbers
that
coming
up
is
to
identify
to
put
the
right
stuff
in
there
to
see
what's
happening,
because
sometimes
action
does
speak
louder
than
words
and
that's
what
I
want
to
say
really
and
to
say.
M
You
chair,
and
it
might
be
that
Shona
wants
to
to
add
in
because
I
think
how
the
city
manages
the
process
of
of
a
concern
through
to
referral
is,
is
absolutely
the
work
that
Shona
and
her
colleagues
are
involved
in,
but
I'll
just
say
something
quickly,
so
I
think
Dr
B
on
Council
Harper
you've
asked
in
a
sense
the
same
question
really
which
is.
Is
you
know
what
what
what's
the
what's?
M
The
balance
between
increased
challenges
for
people
and
increased
incidents,
for
instance
of
domestic
abuse
and
and
just
better
reporting
and
I
I?
Can't
we
haven't,
got
the
sophistication
around
our
figures
to
be
able
to
to
to
take.
Take
that
away
and
and
look
at
that
we
could.
We
I
need
to
go
away
and
see
just
how
far
we
could
get,
but
today,
I
can't
well
I'm,
not
able
to
sort
of
say
you
know.
50
of
that
increase
is
driven
by
and
50,
so
we'd
have
to
do
it's
a
good
question.
M
We'd
have
to
do
some
more
work
on
it
and
it
could
be
we'd
run
into
a
brick
wall
at
some
point
and
not
be
able
to
answer
the
question.
I
think
what
we
know
and
what
we
we
know
nationally,
is
that
Demar
that
people
are
raising
more
concerns
and
without
a
shadow
of
a
doubt
we
know
you
you'll
know
as
board
counselors
in
your
communities.
There
are
increasing
levels
of
mental
stress,
mental
health
issues.
People's
well-being
has
been
significantly
impacted.
M
What
we
saw
through
the
pandemic,
as
we
locked
up
down
and
locked
back
open
again,
was
real
waves
of
increased
demand
as
a
result
of
people
being
sort
of
locked
in
together
and
domestic
abuse,
safer
leads
would
have
the
same.
Figures
went
up
and
then
would
go
down.
So
these
aren't
patterns
of
just
linear
kind
of
patterns.
Things
are
going
up
and
down,
and
we
we're
giving
you
a
figure
here
at
a
year
end
without
a
shadow
of
a
doubt.
M
My
sense
from
working
in
the
in
the
field
is
that
the
majority
of
the
those
referrals
raising
of
concerns
is
there
is
a
result
of
people
feeling
more
confident
and
aware
that
they
can
do
it.
So,
for
instance,
we
know
that
in
in
some
of
our
communities,
we
are
underrepresented
in
terms
of
the
levels
of
referrals,
but
that's
beginning
to
change,
and
it
so
what
what
we're
doing
is
just
giving
people
confidence
that
they
can
through
either
a
locally
trusted
organization
or
through
a
statutory
service.
M
They
can
raise
a
concern
and
something
will
happen
that
doesn't
leave
them
out
of
control.
I
can't
give
you
the
balance,
but
what
we
do
know
from
looking
at
the
statistics
around
demand
for
mental
health
services
for
domestic
abuse
Services
those
are
going
up,
and
part
of
the
reason
for
our
increase
here
is
for
those
going
up.
The
reason
that
not
all
of
them
are
are
then
translated
into
an
investigation,
is
that
and
I
will
bring
Shona
in.
M
Is
that
not
all
of
them
need
an
investigation,
because
actually
the
threshold's
not
met
or
a
different
a
different
bit
of
support.
A
bit
of
advice.
M
A
bit
of
work
with
the
individual,
the
family
or
the
community
organization
can
result
in
the
issue
being
better
managed
without
the
need
to
to
to
meet
the
threshold
for
an
investigation,
and
the
last
thing
we
want
is
people
going
through
processes
that
aren't
needed
for
them
so
but
I'm
going
to
actually
just
say
a
little
bit
more
about
that,
because
I
think
what
happens
in
Leeds
is
there's,
there's
a
set
of
opportunities
to
try
and
move
people
out
of
the
safeguarding
process.
M
When
it's
right
to
do
so,
and-
and
that
is
the
case
nationally
too-
we
we
are-
we-
we
have
seen
a
significant
Rising
concerns.
There's
not
been
quite
that
rise
in
in
in
section
40
to
investigations,
but
that's
because
it's
not
just
being
let
to
happen.
There's
active
management
of
that
process,
so
I'm
going
to
ask
the
show
if
that's
okay,
check.
R
Thank
you,
Richard.
The
the
process
is
driven
by
the
legislation,
so
there
is
a
section
42
inquiry
process
which
does
exactly
as
Richard's
just
suggested,
there's
a
no
wrong
door
approaching
Leeds.
So
if
somebody
does
refer
to
us
something
that
isn't
meeting
the
threshold
for
safeguarding
inquiry,
it
will
get
picked
up
in
another
way.
So
that
could
mean
that
we
would
undertake
a
social
care
assessment.
It
could
mean
that
we
would
sign
post.
It
might
mean
that
we
would
spend
a
bit
of
time
with
somebody
and
and
help
them
with
whatever
difficulty.
R
So
so
we
did
look
at
that
occasionally
and
checks
that
the
the
response
that
we're
giving
is
appropriate
to
to
the
situation
we
can
examine
by
referral
source
the
number
of
referrals
that
we
get
that
don't
result
in
any
further
safeguarding
inquiry.
Quite
a
lot
of
those
sit
with
the
ambulance
service
and
the
police,
both
of
whom
have
a
fairly
standard
approach
to
making
safeguarding
referrals,
which
means
that
they
quite
often
don't
discern
between
in
the
way
that
another
professional
might
so
there's
a
considerable
amount
of
rehearsal
referrals
from
both
sources.
R
That
then
become
another
type
of
inquiry
which
could
be
a
social
care
assessment.
And
then
the
third
thing
is
just
to
reinforce
what
Richard
said,
which
is
the
policy
that
we
have
is
very
citizen-led
and
very
person-centered.
And
as
long
as
the
individual
is
happy
with
the
support
that
we're
giving
them,
we
would
allow
them
to
guide
our
actions
and
get
us
to
the
place
they
need
to
be,
rather
than
putting
through
a
process
unnecessarily.
A
Thank
you
very
much.
Richard
and
Sean
I
believe
councilor
hatbrook
you've
got
supplementary
question.
J
Yeah,
just
briefly,
yeah
I
fully
understand
the
referrals
explanation
and
because
we
all
know
that
referrals
did
go
up,
you
know
Joe
and
Kobe,
and
actually
people
feeling
more
empowered
to
report
things
is,
is
to
be
celebrated
I'm,
not
quite
getting
the
the
inquiries,
because
it's
such
a
profound
change
in
that
it's
you
know.
We
were
doing
56
more
referrals
four
four
years
ago
that
sorry
inquiries,
not
referrals
than
we
are
than
we
are
today
and
that's
a
huge
huge
shift
in
in
numbers
and
that
I
I
guess
what
I
want.
I
It
is
a
quick
question.
You
spoke
about
an
incident
where
you
had
somebody
where
who
had
been
abused
and
somebody
was
going
in
somewhere
and
taking
I'm.
Sorry
I'm,
addressing
this
to
you
sooner
sorry,
addressing
well
I've,
had
a
similar
instance
in
Mali
and
the
housing
was
referring
and
nobody
was
ticking
it
up
and
it's
gone
to
where
the
police
have
had
to
get
involved
and
also
on
another
side
of
a
dementia
to
do
with
my
brother.
I
We
found
that,
through
the
police,
doing
a
referral,
it's
getting
further
down
the
line,
but
going
back
to
this
gentleman,
that's
had
to
be
moved
and
everything
the
housing
couldn't
get
anywhere.
It
was
in
a
council,
property
couldn't
get
anywhere
and
it's
when
the
police
have
stepped
in.
You
know
so
I'm,
not
sure
that
you
know
the
work
the
the
referrals
are
getting
really
through.
You
know
it
just
seems
that
the
police
seemed
to
do
a
better
job
or
not
not
a
better
job,
but
have
the
a
bigger
appeal
to
get
something
done.
I
R
It's
really
hard
to
comment
on
that
individual
situation
without
the
knowledge,
but
if
it's
something
that
you
would
like
me
to
look
into,
please
let
me
have
the
name
and
circumstances
and
I
and
I
will
I
think
as
cancer
Gibson
was
was
mentioning.
R
There
is
such
a
range
of
issues
involved
in
being
able
to
support
an
individual
who
is
able
to
make
a
decision
about
their
own,
their
own
future
and
and
the
amount
of
risks
that
they're
living
in
that
it
can
be
very
difficult
to
get
the
right
response
at
the
right
time.
So
I'm
not
painting
what
we
do
in
Leeds,
it's
perfect,
but
gave
that
example
as
an
example
of
good
practice
that
we
would
be
able
to.
But
if
there's
something
that's
outstanding,
please
let
me
know,
and
I
can
I
can
look
into
it.
M
On
councilor
hartbrook's
question
I
mean
I,
think
I
think
we
should
step
away
and
and
come
back
with
some
further
Assurance
for
you,
and
it
could
be
councilor
that
we,
we
can
only
give
you
half
an
answer
because
we're
only
going
to
be
as
good
as
the
data
one
one
hypothesis
I'd
be
working
with
and
we'd
have
to
put
some
figures
against
the
percentages.
Is
that
we're
not
out
of
kilter
with
the
national
pitch
of
broadly
speaking,
in
Leeds,
so
and
and
practice
does
vary
from
authority
to
Authority
some
authorities.
M
For
instance,
they
all
any
concern
through
us
into
a
section
42
process
which
I
think
is
ridiculous
and
not
person-centered
at
all.
But
if
you,
if
you
assume
that
actually
we
are
reaching
more
people
and
we're
doing
as
you've.
Seen
in
the
report,
huge
amounts
of
conversations
with
Asian
Elder
groups,
the
Chinese
Community
lots
of
neighborhood
groups.
M
Actually,
there's
more
coming
in
there
that
that
doesn't
require
a
section,
42
response,
but
does
require
a
bit
of
support
or
advice
or
a
signpost
and
I
think
what
we
all
I
can
do
is
that's
the
hypothesis
I'm
working
with,
but
I
think
you're
asking
and
that
did,
as
did
Dr
Bill
a
question
about.
Do
you
think
just
give
us
a
little
bit
more
of
a
narrative
around
the
stats,
because
you
want
some
assurance
and
I
think
we
should
be
able
to
do
that.
I
should
be
able
to
do
that
as
your
independent
chair.
J
Yeah
I
guess
the
equivalent
for
me,
are
not
put
words
in
Dr
Bill's
mouth
here
is
you
know
if
you
would
say
that
you
know
30,
there
are
30
fewer
children
in
Leeds,
getting
fillings
on
the
NHS.
You
wouldn't
cost
that
as
a
successor,
it's
understanding
the
and
I
made
that
statistical
before
he
quotes
me
on
it.
But
you
know
it's
understanding
the
the
detail
behind
it.
M
Yes,
absolutely
I
think
it's
also
understanding
that
I'm
not
saying
you
don't
that.
Actually
we
want
to
encourage
people
to
raise
issues
and
concerns.
What
what
we
don't
think
that
will
do
is
necessarily
trigger
a
consent
commensurate
rise
in
the
number
of
safeguarding
referrals.
It
shouldn't
absolutely
but
I.
What
I
hear
chair
is
that
we
need
probably
just
a
little
bit
more
digging
and
we'll
do
that.
Come
back
to
you
through
Angela,
with
some
further
information
and
assurance.
A
Thank
you
very
much,
Richard
yeah.
We
will
remind
you
just
in
case
you
forget
to
come
back.
So
yes,
we
look
forward
to
that
assurance
that
would
really
help
the
board
Dr
Bill.
You
happy
with
that
excellent,
we'll
bring
that
agenda
to
a
wrap
and
say
huge,
thank
you
to
Richard
Fiona
as
well
as
Shauna
for
your
contributions
to
the
agenda.
Thank
you
very
much
feel
free
to
stay.
A
You
know
we're
such
a
lovely
boy
that
we
enjoy
the
entire
agenda,
but
if
you've
got
to
go
by
all
means,
thank
you
very
much
for
coming.
Okay,
really,
sorry
for
those
for
the
second
agenda
item
number
eight,
those
who
have
been
waiting
and
we're
ready
now
and
that's
on
the
review
of
out
of
hours.
Bereavement
Arrangements
at
our
leads
teaching,
Hospital
trust.
So
this
is
an
agenda
item.
That's
also
very
close
to
my
heart,
so
we're
really
really
Keen
to
hear
from
yourselves
this
afternoon.
A
So
we'll
give
you
a
minute
to
get
settled
in
whilst
Richard
and
his
team
can
would
believe
in
us.
So
thank
you.
A
To
all
our
guests,
you're
welcome.
We've
got
teas
and
coffees
as
well
and
some
fruits.
If
you
you,
if
you
would
like
some
so
please
feel
free
to
help
yourself.
I
can
give
you
two
minutes
for
that.
Well,
if
you're,
okay,
then
we
will
start.
A
Okay,
so
you're
all
very
welcome
agenda
item
number,
eight,
on
review
of
our
out
of
hours,
bereavement
Arrangements
at
Leeds
teaching
hospitals
in
September
2019.
A
This
board
received
a
briefing
from
Leeds
teaching,
Hospital
trust
regarding
changes
to
its
out
of
hours.
Bereavement
Arrangements,
aimed
at
improving
the
experience
of
bereaved
families.
Such
changes
involve
the
introduction
of
new
processes
to
enable
the
timely
release
of
deceased
adult
patients
for
ceremonial
and
burial
purposes,
for
religious
and,
of
course,
cultural
reasons.
However,
the
trust
is
now
undertaken
a
further
review
of
its
out
of
hours,
bereavement,
Arrangement
and
have
therefore
we
have
invited
you
in
today
to
engage
with
the
scrutiny
board
at
this
early
stage
of
the
review
process.
U
T
I
came
to
Leeds
as
a
fresh-faced
teenager
in
1987
to
study
medicine,
I
trained
here
and
I've
been
a
consultant
here
for
20
years
so,
like
my
colleagues,
I'm
well
invested
in
the
hospital
well
invested
in
in
the
city
and
we're
very
keen
to
ensure
that
we
deliver
to
the
community
what
they
need
in
this
respect,
I'd
like
to
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
for
allowing
us
to
come
and
speak
to
you
today.
It's
first
of
all,
it's
fantastic
to
have
sort
of
be
able
to
to
meet
you
face
to
face.
T
It's
been
a
long
time
for
us
and
we're
only
just
getting
back
to
the
face-to-face
meetings
and
in
such
a
wonderful
environment
as
well,
so
I'm
very
grateful
for
the
opportunity,
and
hopefully
this
will
be
the
first
of
of
of
a
series
of
Engagement
pieces
where
we
can
have
constructive
dialogue
about
how
we
move
this
process
forward.
But
first
of
all,
I
thought
it'd
be
helpful.
Just
to
give
you
a
bit
of
background
about
where
we
are
at
the
moment,
without
body
releases.
T
So
if
we
could
just
move
on
the
the
to
the
next
slide,
please
you
will
see,
as
you've
sort
of
quite
rightly
pointed
out,
chair
that
in
Rand
2018-19
we
refined
our
processes
with
regards
to
the
release
of
bodies
out
of
hours
from
the
from
the
trust
and,
as
you
quite
rightly
mentioned,
that's
essentially
for
cultural
or
or
faith
reasons,
and,
of
course,
and
some
circumstances.
Children
are
also
released
out
of
ours
as
well.
T
Now
who
actually
takes
who
who
actually
what
happens
when,
when
a
body
is
released
out
of
hours,
that's
essentially
a
process
that
we
need
to
follow
to
ensure,
obviously,
that
the
correct
procedures
take
place
and
that's
facilitated
by
a
clinical
site
manager,
probably
helpful
for
me
to
explain
what
a
clinical
site
manager
is
so
they're.
All
absolutely
clear.
T
The
clinical
site
manager
is
the
senior
nurse
that
works
on
either
side
of
the
city,
there's
one
at
St,
James's
and
one
at
the
LGI,
and
essentially
they
are
the
troubleshooter
for
all
manner
of
issues
that
occur
in
the
trust
out
of
hours.
It
might
be
that
staff
member
calls
in
sick
and
they
have
to
move
around
staff.
It
might
be
that
we
have
a
violent
patient,
they
oversee
all
of
the
transfers
and
all
of
the
patient
flowouts
of
our
emergency
departments.
T
If
there's
a
leak,
if
the
elect,
if
the
lights
go
off,
this
is
the
person
that
essentially
deals
with
this,
and
the
site
manager
also
has
the
responsibility
for
releasing
the
bodies
from
the
mortuary
as
well
make
sure
that
due
process
is
followed
next
slide,
please.
T
So
if
we
look
at
our
current
provision,
we
do
a
facilitate
body
releases
from
our
mortuary
on
both
sides
of
the
city
on
a
24-hour
basis
and
in
the
weekdays
Monday
to
Friday,
which
is
sort
of
nine
till
4
35
p.m,
that's
facilitated
by
our
Mortuary
staff,
but
in
the
evenings
and
weekends.
It's
our
clinical
site
managers
who
provide
that
service
and
up
until
sort
of
I'd,
say
probably
the
last
year
or
so
that
has
worked
pretty
well.
T
If
we
now
move
on
to
our
next
slide,
please
and
have
a
look
at
our
preferred
options
of
of
what
we're
going
to
do
from
from.
From
now
on,
we're
essentially
looking
at
the
the
best
way
that
we
can,
we
can
manage
our
service
and
meet
the
needs
of
our
community
with
regards
to
release
of
bodies
out
of
hours.
T
What
we
are
hoping
to
do
is
develop
a
model
which
I'll
come
to
in
in
future
slides,
but
essentially
we're
going
to
have
a
with
what
we'd,
like
is,
is
an
8
am's,
8
PM
service
on
weekdays
and
weekends.
T
So
essentially,
there
would
be
a
service
that
would
start
from
4
30
to
8
PM
in
the
evening
which
the
site
managers
would
would
facilitate,
and
similarly
an
arrangement
between
8,
A.M
and
8pm
on
Saturdays
and
Sundays
as
well
and
and
my
colleagues
will
be
able
to
sort
of
give
give
more
detail
about
that,
if,
if
necessary,
and
about
how
that
would
work
if
we
just
move
on
to
the
next
slide,
if
that's
possible.
T
So
these
are
some
of
the
considerations
and
and
I
won't
go
through
them
in
any
great
detail.
They're
there
for
you
to
read
and
digest,
but
what
we
are
hoping
to
do
in
this
process.
Moving
forward
is
establish
clear
policies
and
practice
for
out
of
hours,
body
releases
for
both
weekdays
and
the
weekends,
we're
very
keen
to
try
and
meet
the
needs
of
our
faith
communities
in
this
respect
and
to
make
sure
that
we
release
bodies
in
a
timely
fashion.
T
One
thing
that
we
do
have
to
bear
in
mind
is
the
is
the
role
of
the
medical
examiner
and
the
impact
that
they'll
have
when
statutory
changes
come
into
force
in
in
the
beginning
of
April,
and
for
those
of
you
not
familiar
are
probably
worth
me
just
sort
of
saying
something
about
the
medical
examiner
before
we
move
on.
T
Essentially,
the
medical
examiner
now
is
a
statutory
requirement
where
all
deaths
that
aren't
referred
to
the
coroner
are
reviewed
by
a
medical
examiner,
and
the
trust
like
every
other
Hospital
in
in
the
country
has
been
working
towards
meeting
that
that
statutory
requirement,
and
essentially
the
medical
examiner,
is
the
conduit
he's
an
inter
he
or
she
is
an
independent
person
working
within
the
organization
who's.
T
The
conduit
between
the
the
family,
the
registrar,
the
funeral
directors,
the
coroner
and,
of
course,
the
hospital
staff
and
the
medical
examiner
has
the
responsibility
for
scrutinizing
the
patient's
death
and
giving
the
family
an
opportunity
to
highlight
any
concerns,
possibly
about
care
or
to
give
advice
to
the
medical
team
as
to
whether
a
referral
to
a
coroner
is
is
required.
T
Now,
our
current
understanding
is
that
from
April,
the
1st,
the
medical
examiner
will
be
required
to
scrutinize
all
deaths.
That
aren't
referred
to
the
coroner
and,
of
course,
the
medical
examiner
will
work
the
same
hours
as
the
registrars
within
within
leads,
and,
and
so
there
could,
that
that
could
become
an
issue
whereby
we'll
be
will
you'll
be
waiting
for
bodies
to
be
released
until
they've
been
reviewed
by
the
medical
examiner.
T
So
Rhys
May
well
be
up
to
to
speak
further
of
that
in
due
course,
but
that
that's
where
we
are
with
that
particular
issue
and,
of
course
that's
something.
That's
outside
our
control
moving
forward.
We
want
to
have
a
A
system
that
it
that
is
fit
for
purpose
that
meets
the
needs
of
our
community,
but
also
balances.
The
very
significant
pressures
that
the
the
trust
is
under
at
the
moment
and
I
can't
understate
those
the
difficulties
we
have
with
numbers
of
patients
coming
to
hospital.
T
The
difficulties
with
discharging
patients
to
suitable
social
care
or
facilities,
or
back
at
home.
The
the
site
is
under
enormous
pressures
at
the
moment
which
look
to
be
sustained
and
will
continue
into
into
the
foreseeable
future.
T
So
what
we're
hoping
to
do
is
is
have
an
engagement
process
and
and
come
up
with
a
a
suitable
plan
that
that
meets
the
needs
of
everybody.
If
we
could
just
have
a
look
at
the
Timeline
apologies,
if
you
it
may
be
difficult
to
read
on
the
screen.
But
if
we
look
at
the
next
slide,
you'll
see
essentially
that
the
time
frames
are
fairly
fairly
short
here,
we're
fairly
ambitious
in
what
we're
trying
to
do
by
the
end
of
March.
T
We
are
hoping
to
have
a
new
model
identified
by
the
1st
of
April.
We
said
already
that
the
medical
examiner
will
be
required
to
scrutinize
all
non-coronial
deaths
in
April,
we'll
be
hoping
to
test
the
new
system
and
implement
it
at
the
beginning
of
May.
We'll
then
be
looking
for
feedback
from
interested
parties
about
whether
it's
working
for
staff
within
hospital
and
our
colleagues
and
communities
within
the
wider
Leeds
area,
so
just
a
final
slide,
is,
is
on
our
engagement
piece.
T
These
These
are
the
groups
that
we
think
we
will
need
to
speak
to.
We
welcome
your
comments
and
thoughts
about
this
and
any
any
comments
that
you
you
may
have
about
how
we
move
this
process
forward.
That's
all
I
I
wanted
to
say,
but
maybe
an
opportunity
for
some
of
my
colleagues
to
to
come
in
before
we
have
any
further
questions.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you
very
much
John
and
thank
you
for
putting
our
board
as
the
first
engagement
team
on
your
list.
So
we
appreciate
that
any
of
your
colleagues
will
like
to
say
anything
before
we
open
up
to
board
members
you're
happy
with
what
John
has
said
to
us.
Fabulous
right,
work
members
over
to
you
who's
going
first.
D
Okay,
thank
you.
Thank
you
for
the
presentation,
I
suppose
from
hey
I
think
my
first
question
would
be
okay.
What
are
the
blockers
in
terms
of
release
now
I
appreciate?
Obviously
the
CSM
is
overseeing.
D
You
know
two
huge
Hospital
sites
in
Leeds,
I
I
would
assume
that
the
CSM
doesn't
have
powers
of
Delegation
to
just
sort
of.
Let
somebody
else
deal
with
the
release
of
what
is
that
correct.
T
Yeah,
that
is
correct.
Actually,
one
of
the
principal
issues
that
we
have
is
is
making
sure
that
due
process
is
followed,
ensuring
that
the
right
bodies
are
released
from
the
mortuary
with
the
correct
paperwork.
T
So
it
is
vital
that
we
have
someone
who
who's
trained
to
do
that,
and
one
of
the
opportunities
that
we
have
now
is
to
see
whether
there
are
any
other
suitable
people
who
could
facilitate
the
this
type
of
Duty
I
have
to
say
that
sort
of
during
early
discussions,
it
hasn't
been
straightforward
to
identify
a
different
groups
to
do
that.
But
it's
something
that
we
are
considering.
D
Thank
you
so,
with
with
with
the
with
the
position
of
the
clinical
examiner
I've,
seen
kind
of
the
prices
of
of
release
is
when,
when
we
talk
about
looking
at
kind
of
how
these
roles
can
be
expanded
and
delegated,
that's
not
going
to
be
just
a
single
individual.
Is
it.
T
No
I
think
it
would
have
to
be
a
sort
of
a
designated
group,
and
that
may
be
someone
who
is,
for
instance,
in
some
trusts.
It
could
be
Mortuary
staff
that
they're
able
to
do
that
out
of
hours.
Unfortunately,
we
don't
have
the
Manpower
and
provision
within
our
Mortuary
to
offer
that
at
the
moment
in
in
some
trusts
that
the
chaplainc
can
can
help
facilitate
release
and
then
others,
you
know
other
people
can
can
be
identified.
So
it's
it's
a
bit
of
a
mixed
picture
across
Crosswire
and
I.
D
Just
just
for
clarification
are
there
any
particular
clinical
restrictions
in
terms
of
who
can
who
can
authorize
the
release?
Obviously,
as
the
NHS
encounters
great
pressures
and
we're
seeing
a
lot
more
new
ways
of
working
we're
seeing
a
lot
more
people
with
different
clinical
skills
taking
on
different
roles.
So,
for
example,
I
know
you
you
know
just
just
as
as
an
example
you
might
have
had
a
senior
physiotherapist.
Would
they
be
clinically
able
to
do
that
or
would
that
be
outside
of
their
remake.
V
Oh
yeah,
my
football
general
manager
for
pathology,
the
the
actual
process
of
the
physical
release,
just
needs
to
be
somebody
that
is
appropriately
trained
in
following
the
process.
V
The
respective
paperwork
to
be
signed
prior
to
that
requires
certain
clinical
input,
such
as
the
the
mccd
form
and,
obviously
the
medical
examiner
process
prior
to
it.
But
in
terms
of
the
actual
physical
release,
it
could
be
anybody
that's
appropriately
trained.
A
So,
just
to
reiterate
what
you've
just
said
for
someone
to
release
to
give
that
certification,
what
they
need
is
more
administrative
training,
not
any
specific
medical
training
for
them
to
be
able
to
release
bodies.
Is
that
correct?
Just
so
that
I
understand
what
you've
just
told
us
just.
V
U
But
in
terms
of
who
can
physically
authorize
the
lease
that
has
to
be
a
clinician
that
has
been
involved
in
the
patient's
care
and
seen
the
patient
in
life
in
the
previous
28
days.
So
the
release
paperwork-
the
medical
certificate
of
cause
of
death-
has
to
be
completed
by
a
medical
professional.
They
cannot
complete
that
documentation
until
they've
spoken
to
a
senior
consultant.
B
B
Obviously
this
was
flagged
up
with
the
experience
myself
and
councilor
Marshall
Scott,
where
there's
been
a
few
cases
where
somebody
died
and
expected
national
debt
on
a
Friday
evening
and
we're
told
to
wait
till
Monday,
because
we
don't
have
any
staff
and
we
can't
release
the
body
I've
been
as
lead
city
council
as
a
bereavements
Services
representative,
the
champion
now
the
new
title,
I
I've
been
involved
with
most
of
the
religious
cases
where
the
support
has
been
varied
between
clinical
site
managers.
B
It
depends
on
circumstances,
but
it
was
flagged
up
because
of
the
several
cases
in
the
last
three
months
now
originally,
when
this
service
was
introduced
in
Leeds
was
after
seeing
other
West
Yorkshire
combined
Authority
teaching
hospitals
doing
early
releases,
whereas
leads
were
far
behind
in
terms
of
meeting
communities
needs
on
cultural
and
religious
bases,
and
as
a
result
of
that,
we
had
discussions
in
the
scrutiny
board,
and
this
was
agreed
mutually
with
the
support
of
a
hospital,
and
we
understand
the
immense
pressures.
B
However,
meeting
the
this
is
a
very
sensitive
issue
and
I
mean
I
I,
don't
think
Community
wants
the
body
at
two
o'clock
in
the
morning.
It
doesn't
make
any
sense,
although
being
a
counselor
for
23
years,
I've
seen
initially
in
early
days.
B
The
bodies
picked
up
from
the
wards
by
the
by
the
funeral
directors
and
as
far
as
I'm,
my
understanding
is
the
medical
practitioner,
as
Lisa's
mentioned,
the
mccd
certificate
which
designed
the
cause
of
death,
and
if
the
consultant
is
certain
that
the
cause
of
death
is
clear
from
all
the
medical
records
and
the
patients
being
in
hospital
for
so
long,
then
there's
no
reason
for
postmortem,
and
but
the
disease
can
be
released
and
I.
Think
the
suggestion
of
eight
to
eight
is
reasonable
unsensible.
B
You
know
we
want
to
be
practical
on
how
to
provide
best
service,
but
then
the
medical
examiners
coming
in
and
finishing
up
four
o'clock
causes
a
big
problem
and
not
very
helpful
to
the
community's
needs.
Obviously,
for
all
the
reasons
and
Faith
communities,
I
mean
the
colonist
service.
We've
got
excellent,
Service
excellent
relationship
with
the
colonist
service,
who
are
available
24
hours
seven
days
a
week
through
the
police
and
some
officers
are
so
helpful
they've,
given
their
mobile
numbers.
The
registrars
are
available
seven
days
a
week.
B
The
cemetery
service
is
available
seven
days
a
week
to
meet
the
needs
of
the
communities
and
those
members
who
wish
to
have
this
priority
there's
no
reason
to
meet
their
needs.
So
therefore,
we've
not
done
a
wider
consultation,
but
I
can
speak
on
behalf
of
the
Muslim
Community
I,
whom
I
work
with
a
lot,
and
also
the
Jewish
community
and
I've
got
a
statement
to
read
from
Simon
Phillips
who's,
the
chair
of
Jewish
Board
of
deputies.
B
If
the
it
says
interfer
director
for
the
leads
Jewish
representative
council
and
leads
joint
shevra,
Khadijah
I
found
out
the
pronunciation
right
culture,
the
provision
of
out
of
hours,
bereavement
services
for
the
Muslim
and
Jewish
Community
are
critical
in
ensuring
we
can
exercise
with
our
religious
response.
Responsibilities
to
body
body
are
dead
without
delay.
This
is
particularly
important
on
weekends
when
we
know
that
cover
may
not
be
as
widespread
as
during
the
week.
B
We
are
aware
of.
Recent
changes
seem
to
have
made
matters
more
difficult
respectfully.
We
are
concerned
about
the
impact
of
these
changes
on
our
ability
to
provide
Timely
but
heels
rights
to
members
of
our
community
and
fully
support
any
efforts
to
make
made
to
improve
the
position.
We
would
be
happy
to
meet
with
relevant
stakeholders
to
express
our
concerns
in
more
detail
or
to
provide
any
further
information
or
assistance.
B
So
in
the
outset
I
mean.
First
of
all,
you
know
we,
my
question
would
be
is:
are
all
the
hospitals
going
to
have
the
medical
examiner
or
is
it
just
leads?
Like
other
wishes
throughout
the
country?
Is
it
a
national
policy?
Secondly,
in
a
I
mean
I
understand
the
pressures
on
trust
and
eight
to
eight
I
think
it
fits
in
line
with
very
cemeteries,
registrar,
then
the
colonels
and
it's
practical,
because
that
you
know
releasing
body
at
two
o'clock
or
early
in
the
morning.
Is
you
know
we?
B
U
So,
yes,
the
medical
examinerance
service
will
be
applicable
to
all
NHS
organizations
within
England
and
Wales.
The
thing
to
be
mindful,
obviously
includes
all
deaths,
so
that
includes
deaths
within
the
community.
So,
although
we
sit
in
side
leads
teaching
hospitals,
we
sit
independent
to
the
trust,
so
you've
got
GP
practices
that
only
work
office
hours
and
don't
provide
an
out
of
hours
provision,
and
that
would
be
the
same
for
the
medical
examiner's
service.
U
So
we're
looking
for
the
legislation
to
be
handed
out
from
the
government
of
what
the
provision
will
look
like
the
resources
that
are
available,
the
funding
that's
available
and
until
that
provision
has
been
passed
through
Parliament.
We
can't
reject
what
our
service
will
look
like
other
than
that.
We
will
work
with
the
community
to
offer
an
hour
an
out
of
our
service
over
the
seven
day
period,
but
I
can't
say
that
it
will
be
operational
between
our
800
and
20
hundred
and
but
there
will
be
an
out
of
hours.
Provision
of
some
sort.
B
I
agree
with
you
with
the
GPS
practices,
because
when
they
were
given
the
contracts,
they
were
not
given,
there's
no
provision
for
them
to
provide
service
on
weekends.
However,
but
your
information,
a
lot
of
practices
in
Leeds,
have
agreed
to
give
out
the
doctors,
telephone
numbers
to
community
leaders
and
the
religious
organizations
and
doctors
do
come
out
to
issue
mccd
unexpected.
That's
just
to
support
the
families
in
order
to
fulfill
their
requirements.
T
I
I
think,
first
of
all,
I'd
like
to
thank
the
councilor
for
his
really
helpful
feedback
and
us
also
to
hear
the
the
comments
from
from
the
Jewish
Community
as
well.
That's
that's
really
useful
and
I
hope.
This
will
be
starter
of
a
really
helpful
engagement
piece
between
our
organizations,
but
personally
I'm.
You
know
I'm
very
sorry
for
the
poor
experience
of
the
families
that
that
you
you've
you
have
helped
and
assisted
is
certainly
not
what
we
aspire
to
as
an
organization
and
and
we
will
strive
to
do
better
in
that
respect.
T
I
think
I
think
it
is
really
helpful
that
you've
recognize
the
pressures
which
the
the
organization
is
under
at
the
moment
and
and
hopefully
we
can
come
to
a
an
arrangement
that
that
benefits
all
parties
and
and
and
we
can
see
a
clear
Way,
Forward
I-
think
Rhys
is
right.
T
I
think
the
introduction
of
the
medical
examiner
sort
of
statutory
component
from
the
first
of
April
is
a
potential
concern
and
we'll
have
to
see
what
the
government
says
that
was
going
to
look
like,
but
obviously
we'll
try
and
work
wherever
we
can
to
still
meet
the
needs
of
our
of
our
faith
communities
with
respect
to
our
Advanced
body
releases.
Regardless
of
what
that
legislation
says,.
H
You
chair
and
thank
you
for
coming
and
first
thank
you
for
all
the
work
that
you
have
done
during
the
pandemic.
Thank
you.
I
was
going
to
mention
majority
of
my
counselor
Iqbal
mentioned,
so
it's
no
need
for
me
because
they
already
give
it.
But
my
question
is:
what's
gone
wrong,
something
has
gone
wrong.
This
app
starts
happened
in
2019,
but
if
you
looked
at
the
slides
they
put
up
earlier,
the
consideration
reading
down
is
really
down
to
funding
that
affect
the
NHS.
Giving
all
these.
H
We
know
the
NHS
I've
got
pressures
as
every
Corners,
with
the
doctors
combined
together.
So
after
reading
decide
the
consideration
up
there.
The
second
paragraph
down
I,
do
know
every
member
of
Staff
about
hours
to
work,
to
20,
35
or
whatever.
So
is
it
the
financial
struggling
in
the
NHS
that
put
pressure
on
this?
Why
the
culture
needs
cannot
match
with
these
their
disease?
Is
it
because
I
don't
know,
but
is
it
something
went
wrong
from
2019
and
I'm
glad
you
didn't
said
it
was
the
pandemic,
but
really
reading.
H
The
sign,
I
think
is
the
finance
one
is
struggling
with
the
staff
stuff
already
overworked
and
obviously
don't
want
to
put
no
more
pressure.
I
was
just
saying
to
my
colleague,
the
coroners
that
would
come
out.
They
might
have
done
their
30
hours,
so
it
might
be
their
discretion
to
come
back
out
to
do.
The
surf
tickets
am
I
right.
So
it's
the
way
it
is
going,
and
the
final
question
is:
is
it
across
the
country
country?
H
This
is
happening,
and
you
have
no
reason
to
be
apologized
for
to
say
sorry,
because
if
it
is
the
struggle
because
of
the
government,
you
are
alongside
many
others
are
doing
the
best
you
can
to
provide.
But
some
heart
goes
out
for
culture
because
before
219
the
xnhf
staff,
we
never
had
this
issue.
So
it's
all
down
to
pressure
and
the
energy
is
why
culture
are
deprived
of
their
services.
T
Thank
you,
councilor
I
think
you
make
some
some
very
valid
points
there
and,
of
course,
covert
did
come
along,
and
that
was
a
very
significant
challenge
for
us
and
its
Legacy,
unfortunately,
is
has
left
us
in
a
very
difficult
position,
with
respect
to
both
I
I
guess,
Workforce
and
funding.
It
is
certainly
true
to
say
that
we
have
very
significant
Workforce
challenges
like
every
public
sector
organization
with
it
within
the
country,
we're
no
different
from
anybody
else.
T
Staff
retention
it.
It
is
always
a
challenge
and
of
course
fun.
Funding
is
always
an
issue,
and
it
may
well
be
that
part
of
the
solution
is
that
we
will
have
to
find
dedicated
funding
to
to
make
sure
that
this
out
of
our
service
is
is
properly
is
properly
man's.
So,
yes,
those
those
are
both
important
considerations,
may
be
able
to
speak
more
widely
about
the
the
national
picture.
But
it's
certainly
the
case.
A
Okay,
thank
you,
John
Dr,
Bill
and
then
councilor
Arif.
Thank
you,
chair.
U
Yeah,
just
just
to
say
sorry
that
other
one
engine
and
Staffing
is
one
of
the
main
issues,
and
we
have
to
be
mindful
that
we
can't
predict
what
happens
clinically.
U
So,
although
a
patient
has
passed
away
and
require
imminent
release,
if
there
is
pressures
on
the
war
due
to
medical
emergency
or
whatever
reason
stops
the
clinician
from
certifying
that
death,
it's
all
a
block
to
the
release
of
patients.
So
it's
not
entirely
principle
of
funding
and
Staffing.
It's.
What
is
going
on
clinically
across
the
hospital
foreign.
C
My
question
is
partly
been
addressed,
but
I'd
like
to
pursue
it
a
bit
more.
It
seems
to
me
that
there
really
are
two
issues
pre-covered
back
in
whenever
it
was,
you
said,
2018
changes
were
made,
which
were
I
think
probably
a
substantial
Improvement
to
the
situation
which
was
there
before
okay.
It
may
not
be
perfect,
and
you
know
we've
heard
that
improvements
need
to
be
made
and-
and
the
trust
could
do
that.
C
But
now
we
hear
about
these
medical
examiners,
which
apparently
is
going
to
be
in
legislation.
Now
we
are
now
three
quarters
through
February
and
we've
got
March,
so
we've
got
five
weeks
and
we
still
don't
know
what
the
legislation
is
going
to
be.
I
don't
know,
but
maybe
someone
does
know
whether
it's
going
to
need
primary
legislation.
C
Parliament
will
have
to
actually
consider
it
both
houses
or
whether
it
be
done
in
secondary
legislation
by
a
statutory
instrument,
which
is
quite
possible,
but
even
so
I
would
have
thought
that
the
government
needs
to
be
aware
of
the
problems
which
will
arise
from
their
intending
legislation
and
I.
Think
you
know
everyone
sitting
around
this
table,
whether
a
counselor
or
not
has
a
member
of
parliament.
We
ought
to
be
making
sure
that
our
members
of
parliament
are
aware
of
the
issues,
particularly
for
a
city
like
this.
A
very
diverse
population.
J
C
Large
number
of
people
of
Muslim
faith
of
Jewish
faith
and
so
on
and
MP.
You
should
be
aware
of
the
issues
which
need
to
be
faced
and
we
should
not
let
the
government
just
pass
through
willy-nilly
legislations,
which
is
going
to
have
a
profound
impact
on
the
population
of
cities
like
this
and
indeed
nationally.
So
it's
really
just
does
anyone
know
how
the
legislation
is
going
to
be
undertaken
and
what
can
we
do
about
it?.
T
I
think
the
short
answer
to
that,
unfortunately,
is
that
we
we
aren't
none
the
wiser
and-
and
we
would
very
much
like
it
to
be
clarified
as
soon
as
possible,
I
I
think.
Realistically,
the
time
frames
will
get
pushed
back.
I
think
the
government
will
will
have
to
realize
about
the
potential
impacts
of
this
legislation,
so
so
I
think
it
is.
It
is
inevitable
that
the
time
frames
are
just
too
short,
but
but
we
would
like
some
clarification
as
soon
as
possible.
U
And
just
to
add
to
that
that
the
government
are
acutely
aware
of
the
issues
that
are
faced
out
in
the
community
and
part
of
the
provision
of
the
medical
examiner
service
will
be
the
digitalization
of
the
medical
certificate,
of
course
of
death.
So
that
is
very
much
a
paper-based
process
at
the
moment,
but
we're
looking
at
a
digital
digitalized
solution
going
forward
which
will
make
the
mccd
more
available
to
practitioners
out
in
the
community
and
out
of
hours.
And
so
there
is
a
bigger
picture
which
is
a
being
assessed.
A
P
Thank
you,
chair,
I,
welcome
this
conversation,
I
do
think,
there's
a
problem
in
the
service
and
that
to
me
is
evidenced
by
the
number
of
phone
calls
I
get
on
a
weekend
sometimes,
and
that
has
really
gone
up.
In
the
last
few
months,
I
represent
Gibson
Hare
Hills,
there's
a
large
Muslim
population
there
and
there's
almost
a
lot
of
panic
at
that
time.
From
from
residency,
we're
just
not
being
able
to
to
get
in
touch
on
get
the
body
released.
P
I
have
a
question
in
terms
of
the
clinical
site
managers.
Are
we
looking
to
increase
the
capacity
of
the
clinical
site
managers?
P
Obviously
they
have
other
things
and
other
tutors
to
do,
and
sometimes
that
will
be
priority
for
them,
and
so,
as
part
of
this
review,
is
that
something
you're
looking
into
in
terms
of
Engagement
I
think
that's
really
important
that
you're
looking
to
do
with
the
board,
with
faith
organizations
and
with
the
funeral
directors,
but
also
just
as
an
elected
member,
sometimes
I,
just
feel
the
process
for
me
is
a
little
bit
complicated,
who
do
I,
reach
out
to
and
I
think
perhaps,
as
part
of
this
exercise
is
more,
we
could
do
with
elected
members
just
a
bit
of
a
guidance
for
them
to
pass
on
to
their
local
residents
as
well
as
and
when
the
need
arises
and
but
I
I
do
think.
P
Something
needs
to
change,
because
I've
in
my
six
years
as
an
elected
member,
have
never
known
a
service
to
be
performing,
as
it
is
unfortunately,
and
totally
acknowledge
the
pressures
that
you're
all
facing
and
I
think.
Hopefully,
this
exercise
will
help
with
mitigating
some
of
those
issues
that
are
happening.
Thank
you.
T
I
think
their
comments
very
well
made
and
I'm
very
sorry
for
the
experience
of
of
your
you
know,
Community
members
who
who
have
suffered
in
this
way
I
think
you
have
highlighted,
unfortunately,
the
the
very
real,
very
sustained
pressures
that
the
trust
is
under,
but
also
the
importance
of
that
dialogue
going
forwards
to
make
sure
that
we
could.
We
can
reach
a
solution
that
that
that
works
for
all
parties,
I,
don't
think
going
forwards
that
the
site
managers
will
be
the
answer.
A
Thank
you
very
much
John
just
to
add
to
what
counts
that
Arif
has
just
said.
The
only
reason
we
have
called
yourselves
is
because
of
the
number
of
complaints
we've
received
so
outside
of
being
the
chair
for
this
board:
I'm
also
the
faith
champion
and
for
the
council.
So
you
can
imagine
how
many
people
tell
me
about
this,
and
obviously,
if
we're
not
talking
about
the
solution
with
the
people
that
matter,
then
we
will
continue
to
be
in
the
same
problem.
A
We're
having
so
obviously
after
listening
to
us
today,
I'm
glad
with
all
the
list
of
people
that
you
have
put
down
to
be
able
to
seek
their
views
on
coming
to
a
solution
of
which
your
lthd
staff
also
are
part
of
the
solution.
So
obviously
you
will
hear
from
us
today
and
if
we
need
to
come
back
with
other
groups
to
make
sure
we
get
to
the
right
solutions
for
the
community
and
for
the
city,
obviously,
because
it's
a
very,
very
diversity
and
we
actually
take
huge
pride
in
our
inclusivity.
A
Okay,
so
for
us
anything
that
will
enable
yourselves
and
ourselves
as
elected
members,
that
when
people
give
us
a
ring
and
say
I'm
struggling
with
this,
we
do
not
always
have
to
make
phone
calls
and
press
buttons
for
people
to
have
bodies
released
when
it
should
just
be
done
via
the
process.
So
some
people
know
how
to
press
buttons
and
some
people
don't
so
those
that
do
not
know
how
to
press
buttons.
A
Are
there
suffering
in
silence
when
they
have
lost
somebody,
so
I,
just
I'm,
just
trying
to
reiterate
the
as
the
importance
of
why
we
have
called
you
in
today
and
to
say
we
have
only
called
you
in
just
because
the
complaints
are
more
than
one
two:
three
four
five
councilor
Burke
and
then
councilor
Fally.
F
Thanks
chair
thanks
quite
interesting
to
listen
to
what
you
have
to
say.
I've
got
a
couple
of
questions.
First,
one.
Obviously
there
is
obviously
always
a
capacity
issue.
Isn't
it
let's
be
absolutely
Frank
and
I
was
as
reading
the
reports
that
have
been
done
in
the
pilot
areas
and
because
the
government's
adopting
that
it's
quite
obvious
that
what's
happening
in
the
pilot
areas,
will
be
pushed
through
in
in
one
way
or
another.
F
So
my
first
question
is
how
many
medical
examiners
have
we
got
trained
in
Leeds
and
if
you
can't
answer
that,
perhaps
Yorkshire
don't
know
how
you
divide
it,
but
I
assume
it's
leads
and
and.
F
The
system
one
and
is
it
you
miss
I,
quite
like
how
that's
going
to
operate
so
perhaps
you
could,
for
the
The
Bard
here,
explain
how
practically
that
will
operate.
I
know
I've
read,
but
sometimes
it's
much
better.
Isn't
it
to
hear
because
that
strikes
me
if
everybody
is
aware
of
how
that
will
operate,
it
kind
of
answers.
F
The
question
that
councilor
Marshall's
just
said
about
knowing
where
to
go
at
that
that
really
crucial
point
in
time,
because
if
it's
almost
like
Fast
tracking
it
through,
isn't
it
so
rather
than
having
a
negative
effect,
if
we're
aware
and
we
get
GPS
on
board
because
they're
crucial
and
then
that
perhaps
so
my
last
question
is
how
involved
was
Leeds
yourselves
and
I
can't
answer
for
the
authority,
but
I'm
sure
some
Dean
here
perhaps
can
in
the
it's
an
amendment
to
Communism,
just
exact
going
back
to
2009.
So
it's
not
new
legislation.
F
U
So
currently
in
Leeds
teaching
hospitals,
we
have
13
medical
examiners
and
we
have
our
medical
examiner
officers,
so
they
support
the
administrative
function
to
the
medical
examiner.
We
are
currently
recruiting
for
an
addition
of
10
medical
examiners,
which
will
support
the
community
provision
as
well,
and
that,
in
a
nutshell,
is
the
full
team
at
capacity
with
funding
what
is
currently
available
from
nhse
in
terms
of
system.
One
and
emiss
I
can't
comment
on
how
it
will
look
and
work
in
leads,
but
I
can
comment
on
that.
U
Part
of
the
medical
examiner's
role
is
that
the
medical
records
should
be
readily
available
for
the
medical
examiner
to
perform
scrutiny
at
any
point
any
hour
of
the
day.
So
we
are
currently
working
with
the
GP
practices
to
establish
the
provisions
that
allow
us
to
access
the
GP
records.
But
it's
not
as
simple
as
going
to
system
one.
Our
emiss
will
have
to
apply
to
the
99
GPU
practices
to
have
permissions
to
access
their
records.
F
Thank
you,
so
my
mental
arithmetic,
being
what
it
is.
It
strikes
me.
We
only
have
two
CMS
at
this
moment
in
time
and
now
we're
going
to
have
13
based
within
the
trusts.
So
that's
a
an
increase
of
11
bodies
and
I
assume
that
the
the
CMS
will
still
be
in
place
during
kind
of
office
hours.
So
that
says
to
me
capacity
must
lower
averages.
This
math
must
hugely
be
increased,
so
perhaps
that
will
if,
with
that
increased
capacity,
I
mean
it's
huge.
F
That
should
reduce
some
of
the
issues
that
are
displaying
themselves
at
the
moment,
and
my
last
question
please
step
here
is
perhaps
and
I'm
kind
of
looking
at
Victoria,
not
on
purpose,
but
I
am
perhaps
public
health
or
like
chair
of
our
board
or
some
other
people
can
support
that
communication
with
GP
authorities,
because
it's
vital
that
they
get
involved,
isn't
it
so
people
can
get
that
information
during
that
of
hours.
F
It's
a
suggestion,
I'm
sure
somebody
will
reply.
Thank
you,
foreign.
T
D
Thank
you
chair.
It
was
just
a
I
suppose.
I
was
just
thinking
of
like
practical
steps
we
can
take
following
following
Dr
Bill's
contribution
questions
earlier
with
regards
to
Clarity
on
what
the
legislation
will
will
look
like
I
mean.
Imagine
my
shock
to
to
discover
that
this
hasn't
really
been
thought
out
by
the
government.
D
Could
I
could
I
suggest
if
it's
appropriate,
for
perhaps
this
body
or
for
perhaps
the
executive
member,
to
write
the
appropriate
Minister
responsible
for
this
to
seek
Clarity
kind
of
as
to
what
the
legislation
will
look
like,
because
what
I'm
detecting
from
from
our
ltht
colleagues,
is
that
that
you
guys
have
been
told
hey.
This
is
going
to
happen,
but
there's
no
actual
detail
as
to
what
this
will
involve
for
you
to
put
into
practice
is
that
is
that
a
fair
assessment.
U
Absolutely-
and
there
is
a
lot
of
guidance
there
on
on
the
web,
about
the
national,
statutory
medical
examiners
and
it
does
have
what
the
government
has
has
distributed
to
certain
organizations
which
I
can
share
with
you
later
today,
but
yeah
it's.
It
is
out
there
what
the
recommendation
looks
like,
but
it's
putting
it
into
practice
and
each
NHS
organization
does
it
differently.
There
is
no
set
guidance,
so
it
varies
across
each
organization.
D
Thank
you
I
mean
that
that
sounds.
That
sounds
like
a
recipe
for
a
lot
of
different
practice
across
the
country
and
you
know,
dare
I,
say
a
postcode
lottery
in
terms
of
the
service
that
people
receive,
depending
on
the
trust,
so
I
mean
sure.
Would
that
be
an
appropriate
action
for
this
ball
to
take
or
for
perhaps
the
executive
member
to
write
the
appropriate
Minister
and
find
out
what
is
just
what's
happening.
A
P
Yeah
absolutely
happy
to
write
and
send
a
copy
of
that
to
the
board
as
well.
If
that
helps
yeah.
A
B
Thank
you,
chair,
I,
just
feel
that
you
know
no
fault
to
yours,
but
this
is
bureaucracy
introduced
which
no
doubt
release
pressure
on
your
department
and
stuff
which
helps
the
trust,
but
doesn't
help
the
community
to
be
quite
Frank.
B
And
then
what
is?
Are
these
medical
examiners
going
to
be
working
nine
to
five
and
nine
to
four
Monday
to
Friday
or
weekends
as
well?
So
are
we
going
to
lose
the
weekend
service
under
the
national
legislation,
which
is
not
going
to
be
helpful
to
the
creative
communities
and
the
service
that
how
we
have
been
providing
in
the
past
and
it's
going
to
be
withdrawn
because
of
the
legislation.
B
But
the
green
burial
forms
there's
community
volunteers
who
have
the
green
burial
forms
and
they're
able
to
issue
them
on
weekends,
on
just
by
a
phone
call
by
faith
communities.
They
have
the
registrars
registers,
so
I
just
feel
that
you
know
when
there's
a
will
and
with
greatest
deal
of
respect
and
pressures
on
the
trust.
What
does
a
will
there's
a
way,
and
the
approach
varies
with
person
to
person
and
under
this
legislation,
communities
are
going
to
face
a
lot
of
problems.
U
That
I
completely
take
on
board
and
what
you've
just
raised
there.
But
one
of
the
issues
that
I
have
to
highlight
for
members
of
the
bodies
that,
although
a
jack
is
not
screwed
tonight
and
there
are
Community
registrars
that
are
able
to
issue
a
green
burial
order.
The
problems
that
I
encounter
on
the
Monday,
because
the
green
burial
certificate
has
been
issued
without
casting
an
I
o
for
the
proposed
cause
of
death
on
the
medical
certificate
of
cause
of
death,
creates
new
problems
on
the
Monday
with
the
body
already
entered
on
over
the
weekend.
U
And
that
many
times
when
I
come
in
on
a
Monday.
I
have
to
refer
the
death
to
the
coroner
with
the
absence
of
a
body.
So
the
medical
examiner
service
will
come
in
to
provide
the
assurance
that
the
the
cause
of
death,
which
has
been
documented,
is
accurate
and
satisfied
us
and
the
clinical
team
that
there
isn't
a
need
for
Colonial
referral.
So
it
will
benefit
the
community.
But
we
just
need
all
parties
to
be
involved
and
take
it
on
board.
B
The
bodies
are
not
released
without
the
mccd,
and
you
know
certification
and
approval
of
the
calendar.
That's
when
the
mccd
is
issued
and
emailed
to
the
volunteer,
Deputy
registrars
or
the
register
service.
So
why
should
there
be
an
issue
when
it's
a
national
expected
death
and
the
cause
of
Death
is
certain
the
doctors?
The
consultant
have
given
an
mccd
and
what's
the
issue
then.
U
So
when
you
look
at
a
cause
of
death
on
a
medical
certificate,
of
course
of
death
in
the
way
it's
written
can
look
entirely
acceptable
and
that
there's
nothing
untoward
that
makes
that
death
unnatural.
But
when
you
scrutinize
the
medical
records,
for
instance,
there
could
be
somebody.
That's
had
a
procedure
in
the
previous
12
months,
a
procedure
in
the
last
two
weeks,
and
although
it's
not
documented
on
the
Fatal
sequence
of
the
mccd,
it
triggers
the
coroner's
referral
so
on.
V
I'm
afraid
the
that
that
process
tends
to
happen
outside
of
the
mortuary.
So
that's
more.
The
bereavement
side
of
things
that
Rhys
describing.
B
Just
for
clarity
and
I,
don't
want
to
take
up,
needs
too
much
time
backwards
and
forwards.
The
usual
practice
is
that
if
a
doctor
or
consultant
or
even
a
GP
is
not
very
sure,
the
cause
of
death
is
on
the
borderline.
They
often
speak
with
the
coloner
and
in
liaison
with
the
color
and
all
the
medical
records.
That's
when
the
doctor
consultant
issues
mccd.
B
U
So
the
purpose
of
the
medical
examiner
service
is
to
scrutinize
the
deaths
which
are
not
referred
to
the
corner.
So
if
the
death
is
deemed
unnatural
and
requires
Colonial
referral,
there
is
a
element
of
scrutiny
which
people
who
have
a
death,
that
is
natural.
Don't
have
that
element
of
scrutin
to
provide
Assurance
to
the
general
public
that
the
hospital
did.
Everything
which
is
practically
possible
in
the
best
interest
of
that
deceased
patient,
so
we're
providing
that
same
level
of
scrutiny
to
patients
with
a
natural
death
which
are,
for
instance,
being
buried
so
cremation.
U
A
Okay,
thank
you.
Reese
councilor,
Farley,.
D
Thank
you,
chair,
I,
suppose
that
I
mean
this
is
a
bit
of
a
kind
of
you.
Don't
know
what
you
don't
know
question,
but
do
we
anticipate
or
what
would
you
anticipate
might
be
some
of
the
issues
that
arise
from
this
new
system.
D
I
appreciate,
obviously,
it's
not
necessarily,
as
you
know,
in
legislation,
but
what
would
you
anticipate
might
be
some
of
the
issues
that
arise
from
this
new
system
of
of
medical
examiners
and
whatnot.
Thank
you.
U
So,
the
time
the
patient
passes
away,
the
complexities
of
family
Dynamics,
the
availability
of
the
next
of
kin
because
part
of
the
process
there
is
a
requirement
to
speak
to
the
attending
practitioner,
who's
looked
after
the
patient
in
life
and
as
a
requirement
to
speak
to
the
next
of
kin
and
there
it's
also
the
issue
of
what
their
wishes
were
and
determining
what
the
exact
which
of
the
deceased
was
so
yeah.
D
So,
thank
you,
I
suppose,
I
suppose
what
I'm
getting
at
here
is
can
I.
Do
we
obviously
we've
we've
seen
among
some
of
our
communities,
can
I
get
increased,
increased
amount
of
concern
with
regards
to
how
long
it's
taking
for
for
bodies
to
be
released
in
accordance
with
various
religious
practices?
D
Do
you
know,
can
you
foresee
I
don't
want
to?
If
you
don't
know,
you
don't
know,
but
can
you
foresee,
with
the
new
process,
an
increase
in
these
complications
or
delays,
or
do
you
hope
that
you'll
be
able
to
mitigate
against
that.
U
I
can't
comment
currently
without
having
the
data,
but
yeah
we'll
do
what
we
can
to
to
avoid
and
increase
in
number.
B
W
I
think
with,
if
we
could
write
to
the
chair
and
give
numbers
I
know
that
we've
done
some
some
analysis.
So
I
know
that,
for
example,
that
Saint
James's
site
we
have
more
demand
for
release
at
weekends
and
the
infirmary,
which
is
a
major
trauma
Center.
The
demand
for
release
of
of
deceased
people
is
in
in
the
evening.
W
We
also
know
that
the
majority
there
were
some
children's
movies,
so
one
of
the
things
about
best
care
for
parents
who
are
breathed
is
I'm.
The
coroner
or
appropriate
Authority
will
authorize
a
child
to
be
moved
to
Martin
house
hospice
to
to
have
the
best
treatment
care.
W
We
know
that
the
majority
of
people
that
are
using
the
service
are
Muslim
with
a
significant
number
of
Jewish
persons.
We
also
know
that
from
our
colleagues
over
in
mid
York's,
the
Romany
and
Gypsy
traveler
Community,
culturally,
it's
really
really
important
for
them.
So
but
I
think
with
the
chair's
permission,
if
we,
if
we
can,
if
we
write
the
the
data
there
but
but
I
think
has
been
said,
it's
it's
listening.
A
Thank
you
very
much
forever
and
I
was
actually
Keen
to
hear
you
speak
so
now,
I
know
you're
going
to
send
me
an
email
with
some
stats,
so
that
will
be
great
because
that
will
actually
help
the
board
in
terms
of
the
case
that
we're
making
with
the
challenges
that
we're
facing,
because
I
am
very
certain,
there
are
lots
of
cases
that
hasn't
sipped
through
counselors
that
we
don't
know
about
so
I
think
the
data
will
really
show
some
clarity
into
the
death
of
the
problem
that
we
are
currently
facing.
Q
Mindful
I've
not
met
all
my
other
colleagues
previously
so
I'm
hello,
I'm,
Victoria
eating
I'm,
the
director
of
Public
Health
for
at
least
Council
and
and
just
as
a
response
to
councilor
Burke's
comment
before
in
terms
of
joining
up
some
of
these
conversations
about
convening
conversations
with
those
in
communities
and
I'm,
presuming
in
terms
of
the
work
with
GPS
you're
working
with
the
GP
Confederation,
which
represents
the
all
99,
rather
than
having
to
go
separately
to
the
99,
but
but
obviously
more
than
happy
to
to
support
any
of
those
conversations,
and
also
mindful
of
the
lots
of
board
members
here,
were
very
involved
in
the
local
care
Partnerships,
where
obviously
people
around
those
local
Partnerships
know
the
communities
much
more
intensively
than
a
city-wide
organization.
Q
And
so
we've
got
local
Primary
Care
networks
of
GPS
that
come
together
locally,
there's
19
of
them
for
the
city
and
then
we've
got
the
local
Partnerships
that
include
a
broader
range
of
Partners,
including
Ward
members.
So
there
may
be
on
your
list
of
people
to
go
to
talk
to
and
if
not
we're
more
than
happy
to
help
facilitate
some
of
those
conversations.
Thank
you.
L
You
chair
there's
a
question
about
the
Recruitment
and
contracts,
so
we've
said
that
we've
we
currently
have
13
or
14
medical
examiners,
but
you're
looking
to
recruit
another
10.
now,
if
the
legislation
is
changing
and
that
and
the
legislation
states
that
you
have
to
have
these
medical
examiners
in
post
to
deliver
the
service
that
they're
actually
asking
you
to
do,
don't
I,
don't
understand
that.
L
Surely
it's
up
to
us
when
we're
recruiting
to
say
okay,
we
can
make
a
contract
that
says.
Actually
you
are
going
to
have
to
work
some
weekends
here.
So
I
know
somebody
raised
a
point
over
that
I
think
it
might
have
been
counseling
Bell
about
the
contracts
that
GPS
had
before
that
they
weren't
it
wasn't
stated
that
they
had
to
work
weekends.
But
surely,
if
we're
actually
recruiting
people,
we
could
say
that
at
this
stage
and
say
this
is
how
we're
going
to
do
it.
L
T
No,
it's
a
point
well
made
and
I
would
reassure
the
board
that,
during
the
latest
round
of
of
medical
examiner
interviews,
first
of
all,
we
are
specifically
looking
for
GP
colleagues
to
come
and
join
us
to
help
us
scrutinize
the
community
deaths,
and
we
have
been
very
clear.
The
expectation
is,
there
will
be
out
of
hours
work
at
the
weekend
as
well,
for
the
medical
examiners.
U
Sorry
I
just
wanted
to
highlight
that
the
current
medical
examiners
are
Consultants
implied
by
LT
HT
and
their
annual
remuneration.
It's
made
up
of
peers
and
they're
already
tied
into
a
contract
that
cannot
be
tweaked
to
facilitate
out
of
hours
and
Saturday
and
Sunday
working
when
the
contract
artistic
collects
what
their
contract
is.
So
they
work
four
hours
per
week
per
session
as
a
medical
examiner,
it's
not
a
full-time
role,
they're,
not
directly
recruited
to
just
do
that
role.
It's
part
and
parcel
of
a
full-time
substantive
person
within
the
organization.
A
Okay,
thank
you
very
much.
Any
other
comments.
Questions
on
this
agenda
item.
Okay.
First
of
all,
we
want
to
say
thank
you
very
much
for
coming
and
for
coming
in
numbers
with
very
short
notice.
We
truly
appreciate
it.
Could
we
ask,
because
we've
got
only
one
more
meeting
before
the
end
of
this
Municipal
year,
that
you
actually
come
back
to
us
with
some
updates
what
we
could
do
as
elected
members
within
our
image.
We
would
do
regarding
this
agenda
item
and
we
would
also
keep
you
in
the
look
but
I
believe
working
together.
A
Ourselves
and
yourselves
should
carry
a
lot
more
weight
and
obviously,
if
we've
got
to
write
to
the
government
regarding
this,
we
will
do
so.
We
just
want
to
say
thank
you
very
much,
but
we
don't
want
you
to
leave
just
yet
because,
whilst
you're
living
that
takes
a
lot
of
minutes
so
just
sit
down
and
listen
to
the
last
agenda-
it's
not
too
long
and
then
we
will
be
done.
Okay.
Thank
you
very
much.
So
I
shall
Now
call
on
Angela
for
agenda
item
number
nine.
N
N
So
members
of
recall
the
board
agreed
to
hold
a
working
group
to
consider
the
current
position
surrounding
the
delivery
of
the
Leeds
mental
health
strategy,
primarily
with
a
view
to
identifying
key
areas
where
the
board,
where
it
would
benefit
from
more
focused
scrutiny,
work
to
be
taken
fold
into
the
new
Municipal
year.
N
So
this
has
been
arranged
for
9th
of
March
from
9
30
as
a
working
group,
it
is
an
informal
remote
meeting
and
members
should
have
already
received
the
invitation,
and
it
is
the
intention
that
a
summary
not
of
the
working
group's
discussion
will
be
shared
with
the
full
scrutiny
board
as
part
of
its
next
formal
meeting
on
the
21st
of
March.
Thank
you,
Chan
thank.
D
So
thank
you,
chair,
I
I
was
I
was
going
to
suggest,
given
leasing,
hospitals
has
got
a
new
chief
executive,
Professor
Phil
Wood
I
was
going
to
suggest,
firstly,
writing
to
him
to
welcome
him
to
to
his
new
role.
D
He's
got
some
very,
very
big
Julian
sized
shoes
to
fit
so
probably
best
of
luck
to
him
and
I
think.
Secondly,
it
would
be
I
feel
a
good
idea
to
invite
him
along
to
this
body,
just
to
just
to
outline
what
his
vision
for
acute
care
in
the
city
is
as
the
as
the
main
acute
provider
being
Lee's
teaching.
S
I
can
comment
on
that
because
I'm
I'm,
just
I,
was
I've,
been
sat
down
with
Phil
looking
at
his
well
his
his
first
hundred
days,
if
you
like
and
on
the
list,
is
to
come
to
scrutiny
board
and
if
there's,
if
you've
not
received
the
letter.
Yet
there's
one
in
the
post,
figuratively
speaking,
that
will
be
making
its
way
to
you.
A
A
I
know
the
director
has
sat
beside
him
there,
so
yeah
do
give
him
a
pat
on
the
back
because
he's
doing
a
very
good
job
and
we
need
more
people
like
Rob
to
help
our
to
help
the
board,
especially
when
we
have
to
intervene
on
behalf
of
our
constituents.
So
thank
you
very
much.
One
more
item,
councilor
Harrington,
sorry.
L
Chair
yeah
I
sent
a
letter
to
the
the
chair
about
an
issue
that
we've
had
some
residents
arrays
with
me
issues
about
cancer
treatment
referrals,
so
people
who
are
concerned
that
they
may
well
have
cancer
need
to
try
to
get
to
see
a
GP
and
then
need
the
referral
that's
ongoing
after
that,
and
that
has
is
becoming
problematic.