►
From YouTube: littlefish meeting 7
Description
This week we had Robert talk to us about Risk Adjusted Bonding Curves.
Github: https://github.com/littlefish-foundation/
twitter: https://twitter.com/LittleFishDAO
Agenda:
- Risk Adjusted Bonding Curves
- Multicapital Accounting
- Applying this to Littlefish
- Approaching tokenization
- ESG Standardization
C
A
C
B
Okay,
I've.
I
went
through
that
presentation.
You
sent
me
I'm
just
looking
at
the
mirror
board
at
the
moment,
but
I
mean
there's
a
lot.
I
could
talk
about
in
the
subject
so
and
lots
of
different
areas.
So
it's
like
what
sort
of
things
did
you
have
and
perhaps
does
do
people
want
to
know
sort
of
roughly
what
I'm
currently
working
on
the
big
thing,
because
it
is
very
much
related
to
all
of
this.
B
Right,
so
that's
I'll
give
a
short
sort
of
context.
So,
as
joram
mentioned,
I'm
sort
of
spending
a
lot
of
time
in
a
market
mechanisms
with
a
particular
focus
on
things
like
bonding
curves.
So
this
is
quite
a.
These
are
quite
a
different
approach
to
doing
a
token
drop
water.
The
core
idea
here
is
that
somewhat
like
automated
market
makers
that
you
would
expect
from
dexes,
so
decentralized
exchanges.
B
So
essentially,
you
could
take
a
reserve
currency,
such
as
ada
by
a
given
say
a
little
fish
token,
for
example,
that
would
be
minted
on
demand
and
when
someone
wants
to
sell
it,
we'll
get
rid
of
it.
You
know
it
gets
burnt
the
bonding
curve,
the
name
and
the
curve
is
just
a
mathematical
relationship
between
the
two.
B
So
that's
the
notion
of
an
automated
market
maker,
the
difference
between
a
bonding
curve
and
a
general
a
generic,
automated
market
maker.
Is
that
there's
no
real
need
for
a
liquidity
provider,
because
the
curve,
the
the
bonding
curve
mechanism
just
takes
care
of
that
for
you.
So
that
means
in
many
respects
you
can.
B
B
B
B
The
idea
here
is
that,
generally,
a
market
like
a
financial
market,
for
example,
or
markets
generally,
are
actually
computational
systems,
and
that
is
that
they
process
information
in
a
distributed
and
decentralized
environment,
to
work
out
the
flows
of
information.
So
that's
the
position
I
take
on
what
a
market
is.
We
just
are
more
familiar
with
the
notion
of
a
financial
market
being
the
likes
of
wall
street
and
other
sort
of
areas,
but
the
basic
idea
is
they
process
information
in
a
decentralized
and
distributed
environment?
B
So
I
do
a
lot
of
my
work
is
directly
inspired
by
the
notions
of
institutional
economics
so
that
that's
people
such
as
coast,
ronald
coase,
alan
ostrom,
donald
north,
oliver,
williamson
and
a
whole
bunch
of
other
people
within
this
idea
of
how
do
we
do
social
choice?
So
this
means
that
things
like
markets
can
be
used
for
making
decisions.
That's
a
core
idea
that
goes
through.
So
we've
got
kind
of
a
lot
of
the
discussion
at
the
moment
focuses
on
making
decisions
through
voting
and
likely.
B
If
you've
heard
me
talk
before
you'll
hear
that
I
often
sort
of
say,
if
you
have
to
resort
to
voting,
you've
failed
in
governance
as
a
sort
of
poll
make
sort
of
decision.
That
is
because
you've
failed
to
reach
consensus.
Most
of
governance
is
actually
about
deliberation
and
coming
to
some
form
of
consensus.
If
you
fail
to
achieve
consensus,
then
you
end
up
into
the
voting
situation.
B
B
But
it's
also
what's
really
good
about.
This
is
fruity's
done
all
the
economic
design,
so
they've
taken
a
tool
known
this
is
coming
out
of,
what's
referred
to
it
now,
as
the
token
engineering
group
and
what
she's
done
here
and
the
team
from
block
science
have
actually
come
up
with
the
requirements
of
an
economic
market
mechanism
and
studied
it,
and
you
know,
given
a
whole
lot
of
modelling
associated
with
it,
using
a
tool
called
cad
cat,
which
is
stands
for
complex
adaptive,
computer-aided
design
tool.
B
The
type
of
instrument
this
is
is
in
finance
is
referred
to
as
a
conditional
financing.
So
if
you've
ever
come
across
the
notion
of
a
social
impact
bond,
that's
what
this
kind
of
implements,
and
so
this
means
that
it
only
pays
out
on
success.
Whatever
success
is
in
this
little
device
can
actually
be
used
in
a
lot
of
places
where
you're
trying
to
fund
grassroots
activities
and
whatever
you're
you
know
anywhere.
Where
there's
sort
of
we
need
to
put
up
like
a
kiva.
B
B
A
B
A
All
yeah,
first
of
all,
yeah,
I
I
warned
you
before
guys
that
robert
knows
so
much
I
mean
so.
I
warned
you
and
I'm
happy
that
it's
recorded,
so
we
can
come
back
to
that
and
I
don't
know
if
you
understood
everything.
I
not
sure
I
understood
everything
but
yeah,
although
I
had
it
several
times.
I
have
one
question
is
like
a
social
bond
model,
but
social
but
but
social
born
doesn't
necessarily
pay
retroactively
right
many
I
mean
or
like
green
bonds
or
social
bonds.
I
mean
right
so
one
of
the
problems.
B
Yeah
one
of
the
problems
with
the
social
impact
bond
and
related
financial
products,
where
they're
actually
really
heavy
to
negotiate,
and
so
you've
got
basically
this
idea
of
search
negotiation,
monitoring
and
auditing,
that's
associated
with
cases,
transaction
cost
theories
and
the
problem
with
social
impact
bonds.
Is
that
really
really
heavy
on
all
four
of
those
sort
of
side
of
things?
B
So,
typically,
only
governments
and
large
capital
resources
were
used
to
do
them
because
going
in
and
trying
to
monitor
your
find
your
partners.
First
of
all
that
you
were
going
to
negotiate
with
were
problematic,
then
you
have
to
obviously
negotiate
all
the
contracts
and
how
this
bond
was
going
to
operate,
and
then
you
needed
to
monitor
in
order
to
the
argument
here
within
the
structure
of
the
risk.
B
Adjuster
bonding
curve,
which
I
can
go
into,
is
actually
the
market
mechanism
itself
tries
to
coordinate
those
different
functions
in
a
lightweight
way,
so
that
I
actually
can
function
at
a
much
lower
rate.
So
there's
nothing
to
stop
me
say,
for
example,
saying
this
is
for
a
project
for
10
000
u.s
dollars
versus
10
million
us
dollars.
The
market
mechanism
should
operate
in
the
same
function,
it's
probably
because
it
relies
on
speculation
to
help
fund
projects.
B
A
And
that
you
can
adjust
the
kiva
type
model,
we
know
that
kiva
one
of
the
challenges
with
kiva.
I
mean
that
you
feel
as
a
as
a
person
that
you
are
donating
directly
to
an
organization
to
it
directly
to
someone.
But
it's
not
actually
the
case
right.
It
goes
to
kiva.
Then
it
goes
to
a
bank
that
then
give
it
to
for
interest
to
local
entrepreneurs
so
trying
to
think
how
to
adjust
this
donation
process
directly.
B
C
B
If
you
yeah
so
kiva
and
similar
sort
of
microfinance,
sort
of
environments
again
have
a
very
similar
financial
supply
chain
or
deal
flow
associated
with
what's
coming
through
so
often,
you
know
they're
working
through
quite
a
number
of
intermediaries,
because
they're
basically
trying
to
prep
the
proposals
that
need
to
be
funded.
You
know
the
loans,
those
sort
of
things
they're,
trying
to
find
the
people
make
them
aware
of
that,
and
then
there's
this
whole
cost
of
monitoring
and
auditing
them.
B
So
plus
you've
also
got
the
issue
of
how
do
you
actually
get
the
the
money
in
this
case
to
the
people
concerned
and
when,
especially
when
they
don't
have
bank
accounts
and
those
sort
of
things,
I
don't
think
any
of
that
necessarily
goes
away
with
tools
like
blockchains
or
or
even
the
risk
adjuster
bonding
curve.
What
they
are
doing
are
lowering
lowering
that
and
enabling
probably
local
organizations
much
closer
to
local
communities
than
sort
of
the
abstract
kind
of
model.
B
B
That
requires
the
need
to
structure
the
information
quite
appropriately,
in
a
way
that
it
can
be
more
easily
monitored
and
audited
largely
by
machines.
If
we
have
to
put
too
many
people
in
the
mix
in
terms
of
trying
to
manage
the
data,
that's
coming
through
you've
immediately
constructed
an
environment
that
requires
more
intermediaries
and
therefore
ticketing.
The
fees
and
some
degree
of
opaqueness
goes
on
as
a
result,.
A
C
B
A
B
Resources
to
people
around
the
world
and
we're
failing
to
do
that
because
of
a
failure
to
coordinate
our
activities
around
doing
that.
So
we
can
increase
the
ability
to
coordinate
effectively.
Then
we're
more
got
a
better
chance
to
solve
the
two
brand
challenges
so
to
speak,
of
what
we've
got
within
both
of
those
social
or
environmental
change.
B
We've
got
an
issue
of
how
do
we
measure
and
report,
because
if
we
want
to
move
large
sways
of
capital
that
are
out
there
and
being
pulled,
then
we've
got
to
give
them
transparency
into
how
that's
been
allocated.
So
a
broad
term
here
in
financial
markets,
we're
used
to
the
notion
of
return
on
investment
an
equivalent
one
within
the
impact
space
is
basically
additivity.
B
The
term
additivity,
which
basically
means
if
I'm
pumping
a
dollar
in
to
make
this
change,
is
that
change
actually
going
to
add
impact
if
it
isn't.
I
might
as
well
not
have
put
the
one
dollar
in
right
because
it
would
have
just
happened
anyway.
So
the
notion
of
additivity
is
equivalent
to
the
notion
of
return
on
investment
or
profit
with
respect
to
typical
models
and
the.
B
A
Yeah,
you
know
with
that.
One
thing
also
you
work,
a
lot
in
which
is
very
relevant
for
us
is,
is
the
multi-layer
accounting
right,
so
how
the
the
accounting
of
financial
return,
but
accounting
also
of
impact
on
nature
and
social,
which
is
very
relevant
for
us
for
our
discussion,
because
we,
you
know,
we
want
to
generate
back
an
nft
with
the
impact
measure,
with
the
impact
that
the
money
actually
created.
B
B
B
B
B
My
government
basically
has
what's
known
as
the
well-being,
framework
or
government
agencies
are
required
to
report
over
four
capitals,
so
we're
one
as
far
as
I
know
the
first
country
in
the
world
to
actually
do
that
in
terms
of
government
agents
rings.
Reporting
problem
is
it's
still
about.
You
know
ham,
wavy
in
terms
of
how
you
do
the
translations
into
your
three
other
capitals.
But
this
is
not
even
within
business.
It's
not
unusual.
B
B
What
we're
arguing
here
in
a
popular
sort
of
narrative
of
six
capitals
is
that
we
also
bring
in
human,
social
and
environmental
capital
right,
and
we
measure
those
in
certain
different
ways,
a
capital
that
can
be
used
as
a
proxy
for
environmental
stuff
is
things
like
carbon,
carbon
credits
and
those
sort
of
things,
but
it
doesn't
have
to
be
now.
So
that
means
that
we
can
do
those
sort
of
things.
B
The
the
challenge
has
always
been
a
multi-capital
accounting
is
the
limited
capacity
of
the
pink
porridge
here,
that's
in
our
minds,
but
of
course,
what
we've
got
now
is:
we've
got
machines
that
can
process
numbers
really
really
quickly
and
do
things
so
there's
a
desire
to
do
that.
You
know,
I
think
we've
got
the
technology
to
do
that.
We
just
haven't
got
the
practice.
B
One
of
the
key
things
of
which
I'll
leave
on
this
last
point
is
that
out
of
all
the
blockchain
systems,
that
I'm
aware
of
cardano
is
the
only
one
that
designs
that
defines
value
as
a
vector,
I.e.
Natively
supports
multi-capital,
accounting
or
bookkeeping
natively,
so
that
is
basically
a
output
within
a
transaction
is
designed
as
a
token
bundle.
B
Okay,
so
it
literally
is
defined,
and
then
the
specifications
defined
as
a
vector
space,
which
means
that
it
natively
supports
multi-capital
accounting,
there's
no
special
need
there
to
to
make
it
do
its
magic.
The
only
thing
you
need
to
do
is
to
introduce
the
ideas
of
ratios
into
managing
the
relationship
between
those
bundles
of
tokens.
B
B
Yes,
so
joseph
well,
actually,
the
work
of
michael
alderman
actually
is
more
relevant
here.
He
used
to
work
with
joseph
stiglitz
and
he's
done
quite
a
bit
of
work
on
bringing
a
mathematical
basis
to
accounting.
It's
referred
to
as
property
theory,
and
some
work
here
has
built
upon
that
by
the
work
of
roger
wallett,
michael
fay,
not
michael
fay.
B
A
B
So
there's
there's
a
number
of
ways
and
the
parameters
to
a
given
bonding
curve
can
be
varied,
so
a
curve
could
be,
for
example,
a
linear
curve,
if
that
was
required.
The
conditions
upon
in
the
case
of
the
risk-adjusted
bonding
curve
it
pays
out
on
success.
So
you
have
to
sort
of
decide
what
is
success.
B
B
Then
you've
failed.
So
it's
a
relatively
easy
one.
So
a
good
framing
to
think
about
these
sort
of
things.
Sebastian
is
basically
as
a
type
of
well
a
type
of
fixed
income
instrument,
as
so,
if
you're
doing
any
sort
of
treasury
corporate
paper,
those
sort
of
things
they've
got
similar
sort
of
measurement
criteria,
but
you
just
lowered
the
cost
down.
B
So
we've
been
funded
in
fund
six
to
do
do
some
of
the
initial
implementation
which
we're
working
on
now,
the
aim
so
for
you
guys,
the
in
terms
of
where
you're
at
the
bonding
curve's
not
ready.
Let's
be
clear
about
that.
It's!
This
is
something
that's
going
to
be
market
ready
in,
say,
12
months
in
terms
of
use
and
all
the
other
sort
of
infrastructure.
B
If
you're
going
in
to
try
and
fund
someone
in
ghana-
or
in
you,
know,
indonesia
or
vietnam,
the
last
thing
you
want
to
have
is
to
destroy
their
expectations
and
their
their.
You
know
livelihood
that
sort
of
thing,
so
you
want
to
make
sure
that
it's
really
robust.
It's
okay!
If
someone
does
a
rack
pull
in
a
speculative
market
where
people
are
just
doing
token
flipping,
but
I
do
not
want
that
to
happen
in
what
we're
doing
here.
So
the
engineering
of
this
is
more
extreme
than
your
typical
approach.
A
B
So
there's
been
one
proposal
which
is
just
doing
a
bonding
curve:
sdk,
not
the
risk
adjuster
moniker,
but
just
a
simple,
relatively
simple,
bonding
curve,
sdk,
where
you
could
specify
the
parameters
for
the
bonding
curve
that
you
wanted
to
create.
You
instantiate
that
you
can
plug
that
into
whatever
you're
building
and
away
you
go.
B
A
B
B
This
is
what
we're
trying
to
achieve.
These
are
the
roles.
These
are
the
sort
of
incentives
we
think
we've
got
now.
Let's
try
and
you
know,
refine
that
design
a
little
bit
more
with
code.
In
terms
of
simulations
and
things
like
that,
and
then
you
would
go
down
and
do
the
implementation
and
things
like
haskell
or
and
front-end
tools
and
whatever
you're
going
to
use
their
react
or
whatever
on
that
side
of
things.
B
So
this
is
a
quite
different,
and
this
is
true
of
what
the
bonding
curve
enables,
as
opposed
to
say,
just
doing
a
token
drop
if
you're
doing
a
token
drop.
Your
only
real
requirement
to
think
about
at
this
stage
is
a
lot
easier,
because
all
you're
doing
is
effectively
working
out
the
broad
stroke
allocations
24
to
the
founding
team.
B
You
know
60
to
the
community,
those
sort
of
things
and
then
you're
constructing
a
narrative
around
it,
whereas
if
you
actually
start
to
look
at
what
you're
trying
to
do
what
communities
you're
trying
to
serve
what
types
of
transactions
you
want
to
use,
then
things
like
the
business
model
canvas
or
more
specifically,
the
platform
design
kit-
is
really
relevant.
There.
B
C
So
I'd
like
to
go
one
step
further
as
we
design
it
as
we
build
the
ecosystem,
at
least
on
paper,
and
we
start
implementing
these
with
smart
contracts.
I'm
trying
to
figure
out
a
process
where
we
can
do
it
incrementally,
because
in
the
end,
we'll
have
an
ecosystem
that'll
be
composed
of
many
smart
contracts
and
the
token
and
the
interactions
between
those
smart
contracts
and
we're
creating
an
economy
where
we're
defining
all
those
interactions.
C
B
B
So
what
I've
outlined
in
terms
of
like
using
something
like
the
business
model,
canvas
and
then
playing
serious
games
and
then
going
into
something
like
cadcat
than
doing
your
engineering
and
stuff
around.
That
is
about
going
through
that
incremental
process
and
understanding
how
your
different
mechanisms
will
interact
with
what
you're
trying
to
choose
to
do.
B
B
In
terms
of
so
we
can
do
the
mechanical
proofs
and
then
you
know
we're
effectively
writing
the
pluto's
code.
So
there's
quite
a
few
steps,
that's
extreme
but,
as
I
said
to
you
before,
there's
a
ethical
engineering
question
that
I'm
building
stuff
that
society
or
civil
society
will
use.
I
don't
want
it
to
fall
out
of
the
sky.
B
A
C
Basically,
which
particular
technology
or
system
could
be
used
on
the
blockchain
to
constantly
increase
one's
revenue
one's
profit
in
order
to
use
that
profit
to
do
a
project
like
building
a
children's
home
every
month.
So
is
there
any
input
that
you
can
share?
It's
not
directly
relevant
to
this,
but
since
you're
here
I
thought
I'd
ask.
B
So
that's
a
way
for,
like,
in
your
case,
dimitri
say,
for
example,
the
biodiversity
in
sri
lanka
or
whatever
is
to
set
up
stake,
pools
there.
But
now,
instead
of
a
wish
or
a
declared
statement,
it's
now
actually
auditable
and
you
can
see
where
the
profits
are
going
because
you've
got
more
transparency
on
what's
going
on
and
happening
there.
C
C
B
Right,
so
that's
a
key
point
here
that
we
raised
earlier
around
the
role
of
data
and
auditability.
If
you
take,
for
example,
how
financial
markets
work
at
the
moment
in
1889
or
whenever
it
was
reuters,
came
up
with
the
idea
of
the
standard
annual
report
all
right.
This
was,
and
this
then
enabled
companies
to
report
what
they're
doing.
B
Obviously,
they
saw
lots
of
problems
with
it
and
over
the
years,
with
the
most
recent
update
being
the
saber-oxley
act,
that
was
came
through
to
improve
the
information
quality
in
the
standard
reports,
but
it's
those
standard
reports
and
the
quarterly
reports
that
come
with
it
and
all
the
rules
and
regulations
around
it
which
basically
enable
the
financial
market
without
good
quality
information.
Without
the
regulation
to
ensure
that
the
information
is
reported
as
close
to
true
as
possible,
the
financial
markets
would
not
work.
B
So
we
know,
we've
got
a
problem
with
exxon,
mobil,
saying,
they're,
doing
great
things
for
the
environment
and
their
standard
annual
reports.
You've
got
a
problem.
So
how
do
you
address
the
information?
Asymmetry?
That's
occurring.
How
do
you
hold
organizations
and
other
things
to
account
the
other
problem,
too?
Markets
work
through
standardization
right
every
company,
every
company
that's
listed
on
the
equities
market
is
standardized
in
terms
of
the
information
reporting
and
the
the
public
invest
into
equities
or
debt-based
products
are
standardized.
B
B
B
And
so
how
do
you
pull
data
together
in
a
way
that
standardizes?
And
so
we
can
compare
two
investments
to
two
programs
in
two
different
locations?
They
may
be
in
the
education
space,
but
they
may
be
in
completely
different
countries
with
different
institutions,
different
cultural
backgrounds
and
those
sort
of
things,
and
so
a
lot
of,
for
example.
B
This
is
amplified
through
the
points
of
things
like
the
wto
and
globalization
is
really
an
effort
to
standardize
and
make
various
different
things
in
the
world
legible,
so
that
it
can
then
be
traded
and
flipped
and
moved
around
and
compared
one
to
the
other.
The
environmental
space
and
the
social
space
do
not
have
those
sort
of
things.
At
the
moment,
the
closest
we've
got
is
the
impact
management
platform
work,
which
is
relatively
new
in
terms
of
categorizing
data
and
trying
to
come
up
with
standardized
reports.
A
B
A
B
So
you've
effectively
got
to
a
situation
where
people
can
now
invest
passively.
They
can
just
go
and
invest
in
an
etf
and
not
really
have
to
make
active
choices
about
stocks
or
anything
else
like
that.
They
can
do
that
because,
underneath
the
hoods
there's
this
whole
machinery
that
surfaces
the
data
up
in
a
certain
way
in
a
certain
form
factor
that
it
can
then
be
basically
invested
in
passively.
That's
the
that's
the
result
of
you
know
standardizing
and
putting
on
all
this
machinery,
which
is
massive
to
actually
achieve
that.
B
B
You
know
programs
and
those
sort
of
things
so
to
enable
that
to
happen.
There's
people
have
got
to
basically
do
all
the
sort
of
steps
in
between
to
say
hey
this
information's
good.
This
information
is
good
and
we'll
bridge
it
all
up
and
then
eventually
you
know,
we'd
be
able
to
say,
let's
invest
in.
B
C
B
A
And
again,
for
me
this
is
we
spoke
about
it
a
lot.
This
is
really
the
center
and
if
I
look
and
tell
me
what
you
think
about
that,
if
we
look
on
the
services
we
offer
to
the
community,
so
we
offer
a
platform
where
all
the
ngos
can
come
on
board,
get
some
kind
of
verification
and
basically
come
in
to
kind
of
get
tools
to
basically
follow
the
transfer
to
stability
and
transparency
right
so
how
much
money
they
got.
A
Imagine
if
you
have
thousands
ngos
like
that,
you
can
start
really
doing
the
calculation
of
that
and
then
on.
The
other
side
connected
to
you
know,
rewards
donations
and
spl
rewards,
nfts
and
so
on.
If
that
makes
sense,
so
really
the
core
of
littlefish
is
to
build
this
platform
that
create
this
auditable,
transparent
information
of
the
ngos
and
bring
it
to
the
blockchain.
C
I
think
oscar
had
a
good
point.
Maybe
we
should
run
through
the
business
model,
canvas
just
to
understand.
What's
our
value
proposition,
who
are
key
stakeholders?
What's
our
key
activities
who
are
key
partners?
I
mean
this.
This
is
like
one
of
the
greatest
books,
the
business
model
generation
that
goes
through
how
to
use
the
business
model,
canvas
and
build
it
out.
I
think
without
having
that
at
least
high
level.
Understanding
amongst
ourselves
like
what
are
our
channels.
How
do
we
communicate
with
our
customers?
B
If
you
want
to
go
from
more
from
a
technology
standpoint,
get
familiar
with
the
classifications
and
thinking
about
stuff.
You
know
what
is
your
revenue
model?
What
is
your
cost
base?
Those
sort
of
things
and
then
moving
in,
like
nori,
has
indicated
into
the
the
platform
design
toolkit,
which
looks
at
more
the
the
interactions
that
are
occurring
in
a
platform
like
little
fish
and
then
the
joe's
wet
would
bring
in
some
of
the
ideas
of
building
out
of
commons.
A
C
Well,
if
you
have
the
time,
I'd
love
to
ask
just
one
more
question,
so
if
we
wanted
to
build
this
correctly,
but
still
like
go
on
to
the
main
net
in
incremental
steps,
as
in
let's
say,
we
decided
that
the
donation
thing
is
the
core
of
what
we
want
to
do.
We
want
to
do
it
first,
let's
get
that
out
there
and
then
let's
build
the
ecosystem
around
it.
Is
there
a
process
by
which
we
can
do
it
or
does
it
have
to
like?
B
So
if
you
try
to
design
everything
up,
front,
you're
guaranteed
to
be
wrong
so
in
terms
of
trying
to
find
the
path
through
to
do
things
incrementally,
with
the
view
that
it
is
incremental
that
you're
not
going
out
to
try
and
say,
hey
we're
solving
the
world's
problems.
But
this
is
what
we're
working
on
and
trying
to
work
on,
implementing
these
aspects,
try
and
understand.
B
What's
going
on,
that's
the
best
approach,
so,
for
example,
I
we've
got
whether
this
gets
funded
or
not
in
fund
seven-
I
I
don't
know,
but
there
is
the
retroactive
funding
experiment
work
that
we
put
up,
which
is
very
much
predicated
on
this.
How
can
we
do
things
to
learn
and
because
there
is
so
much
complication
in
this
whole
space,
we
need
to
do
things
incrementally
and
so
part
of
that
proposal
upon
fund
7
is
really
to
do
lots
of
little
experiments.
B
I
think
a
lot
of
the
work
that
has
been
done
within
the
lean
startup
movement
is
very
applicable
here.
So
the
idea
of
like
the
lean
canvas
or
the
business
model,
canvas
if
you
want
to
use
that
the
idea
of
innovation
accounting
is
very
relevant,
as
mirrored
put
up
in
those
lens
to
other.
You
know,
books
and
the
idea
of
customer
development
that
steve
blank
has
developed
are
all
very,
very
relevant
here.
B
They
just
need
to
be
viewed
in
a
impact
lens
and
I
don't
think
a
great
deal
of
inner
interpretation
because
basically
impact
related
things
is
innovation,
you're,
actually
trying
to
move
systematic
change,
you're
trying
to
bring
something
new
to
a
market.
So
a
lot
of
the
thinking-
and
you
know
the
technology
startup
space-
is
applicable
here.
C
B
B
So,
for
example,
a
simple
way
to
do
things
at
the
moment
might
be:
let's
do
a
issue
a
native
token,
under
a
policy
that
has
so
multi-signature
things
where
you
can
then
actually
we're
going
to
say
as
a
normative
statement.
You
know
we
write
it
out
that
we're
going
to
convert
this
thing
at
some
point
in
time,
but
this
is
the
process
that
will
make
the
decision
and
we'll
convert
this
into
something
else.
That
might
be
a
smart
contract-based
stuff.
B
So
yeah
and
there's
also
nothing,
for
example,
to
say
we
can
do
things
on
the
testnet.
So
the
idea,
for
example,
in
the
retroactive
funding
experiment
work,
is
not
to
do
it
on
the
main
chain.
Do
it
on
the
test
net.
In
this
case
here
the
the
proposer
becomes
the
treasury,
the
small
mini
treasury
and
we'll
do
things
manually.
I'm
always
a
big
advocate
of
working
out
what
you
need
to
do
up
front
through
site
manual,
intervention
manual
tasks,
trying
to
figure
out
before
you
jump
to
code
and
and
work
these
things
out.
C
B
No,
I
think
that
can
be
completely
arbitrary
if
you
want
it.
One
of
the
things
to
keep
in
mind
within
the
karana
environment
is
that
if
you
issue
tokens
and
a
policy,
you
can
add
more
or
you
can
burn
more
later,
so
you've
got
a
degree
of
flexibility
there.
It's
managing
expectations
around
what
your
community
is
and
being
clear
about
what
you're
doing
it's
it's
important.
A
A
There
are
some
sentences
we
take
with
us
along,
like
like
climate
change,
is
afraid
of
cooperation,
so
one
sentence
I
will
take
from
you
is
that
if
you
want
to
change
the
world,
you
need
to
change
the
accounting,
and
so
that's
your
sentence
and
it's
going
to
go
with
us
among
many
other
things,
yeah
melanie
is
here
and
yeah
I
mean.
Thank
you
very
much.
I
don't
want
to
take
more
for
your
time,
but
thank
you
very
very
much
for
coming
monday
morning
and
showing.
B
B
I
could
talk
talk
about
this
for
a
long
time,
I'm
more
than
happy
to
because
yeah
this,
this
sort
of
stuff
is
basically
what
I'm
doing
you
know
in
terms
of
social
and
environmental
impact.
That's
why
I'm
working
on
everything
I'm
doing
and
have
been
for
the
last
four
years
or
so
five
years
so
the
more
I
can
spread.
The
love
spread
the
word
about
this
technology
and
how
to
use
it
the
better,
because
I
can't
do
it
all
myself
so
yeah.
I
need
cleveland
so.
A
B
A
B
Yeah
and
if
we
get
funded
for
the
rituated
funding
experiment
out
of
fund
seven,
I've
made
sure
I've
put
in
that
particular
proposal
to
do
lots
of
mini
experiments
and
specifically
said
I
want
them
in
the
climate
and
environmental
space.
So
you
know
I
think
about.
I
can't
quite
remember
how
much,
but
about
50,
or
slightly
more
of
that
is
the
set
aside
to
fund
small
experiments
in
the
order
of
about
3
000
us
dollars,
so
that
people
can
learn.
B
There's
also
a
bit
of
strategic
play
going
on
here.
My
co-proposal
in
that
is
highly
connected
into
big
finance
in
the
sense
of
coming
from
morgan
stanley,
gates,
foundation
and
other
she's,
an
impact
vesta
and
she's
hooked
in
with
gates
morgan
stanley
and
temesek,
which
is
the
big
sovereign
wealth
fund
in
singapore
and
she's
wanting
to
learn
and
understand
how
to
use
this
stuff
for
impact
related
work.
B
B
Sorry
not
not
at
the
moment,
because
I'm
trying
to
focus
on
implementation,
work
right
and
just
do
small
things
rather
than
a
big
community
building.
So
it's
it's
hard
enough
to
explain
all
of
this
to
people
in
the
space,
let
alone
software
developers
and
things
that
are
trying
to
get
their
head
around.
All
of
this.
B
C
B
C
C
C
B
I've
tried
out
social
and
social,
environmental,
investing
or
finance,
so
I've
done
played
around
with
the
term
called
sofi,
which
is
similar
to
the
notion
of
real
fire
that
charles
and
john
were
sort
of
pushing
around,
but
the
idea
of
being
here
for
social
and
environmental
investment
finance,
so
you
would
have
seen,
I
think,
melanie
a
challenge
proposal.
I
put
up
in
funds6
to
try
and
push
that
idea,
because,
ultimately,
what
we
are
talking
about
here
is
finance.
B
This
is
allocating
society's
resources
to
the
place
where
it's
best
needed
most
needed
and
that's
what
finance
is
it's
taking
in
society's
resources,
which
are
referred
to
as
cash
flowing
that
I.e
cash
flow
under
which
means
time
we're
under
uncertainty
or
risk.
We
don't
know
whether
something
is
going
to
work
or
not.
B
C
B
C
B
That
might
give
you
a
lot
of
food
for
thought
in
terms
of
thinking
about
different
aspects.
The
key,
the
key
idea
within
finance
is
ratios.
Everything
can
finance
deals
with
ratios,
we're
comparing
two
things
to
come
together
and
reporting.
3.0
is
moving
towards
the
notion
of
ratios
as
well.
We've
got
to
deal
with
ratios,
not
scalars,
okay
and,
and
while
I've
talked
I'll
just
drop
this
one.
B
B
A
B
C
A
I
share
with
you
a
company
here
called
concern
which
is
kind
of
doing
easg
they're,
basically
integrating
all
these
esg
rating
companies
and
individuals
into
one
platform,
so
you've
got
nestle
get
I
don't
know
50
years
g
rating
of
different
people,
and
then
you
have
an
average
so
and
that
kind
of
becomes
something
more
and
more
important,
quite
interesting
company.
I
know
them
well.
A
C
A
A
B
Yeah,
so
you
know
there's
a
lot
I
can
talk
about
in
that
sort
of
way,
but
the
I
think
so
there's
a
whole
lot
of
work
going
on
at
the
top
end.
You
know
with
large
cap
big
capital,
those
sort
of
things,
the
big
push
and
block
blackrock
and
and
some
of
the
other
big
hedge
funds
and
stuff
like
that,
have
started
to
split
out
for
esg,
related
funds
and
things
like
that.
B
Why
kidana
and
there
was
a
woman
in
there
called
charity
from
the
democratic
republic
of
congo
and
she's-
been
educating
a
whole
of
women
for
the
last
10
years
and
trying
to
lift
their
boat,
and
you
know
trying
to
lift
their
skills
and
their
confidence
and
everything
else
like
that,
and
she
said
you
know
why.
Kadana
and
her
basic
argument
was
that
we
have
to
change
the
mindset.
We
have
to
change
the
mindset
from
aid
to
capability.
B
So
much
of
the
my
approach
to
solving
problems
within
say
the
developing
countries
is
orientated
towards
hate.
We
throw
the
aid
in
we'll
tell
you
what
to
do
we'll
tell
you
how
to
do
it.
Obviously,
we've
got
the
ability
to
know
and
understand
what
we
can
do,
how
and
our
local
conditions
and
our
local
environments.
B
B
So
how
did
you
architect
the
system
to
achieve
that?
It's
a
similar
sort
of
aim
here
so
nora.
An
answer
to
your
question
is
like
yes,
multicapital
accounting,
I'm
just
looking
on
the
r3
here
and
there's
one
thing
from
multi-capitalism
to
sorry
from
mono
capitalism
to
multi-capitalism
is
that
the
the
positioning
is
that
the
sub
text?
You
know
those
sort
of
things,
I'd
love
to
hear
your
thoughts.
C
B
C
C
B
C
B
Right
so
joe
is
part
of
what
we're
doing
here.
You
know,
obviously
so
absolutely
she'll
she
can
drop
in
on
those
sort
of
times
and
things
like
that.
The
challenge
we
face
being
plus
13
of
utc
is
at
the
moment
I'm
kind
of
got
meetings
chucked
up
at
the
beginning
in
the
morning
and
then
meetings
at
the
end
going
into
sort
of
like
12
o'clock
and
it's
exhausting
so
I've
been
sort
of
trying
to
unwind
those
a
little
bit
yeah
and
I
think
she's
similar
on
that
slide.
Joy.
A
B
B
C
B
That's
cool
so
hopefully
that's
given
you
some
food
for
thought,
I'm
more
than
happy!
This
is
actually
quite
a
good
time.
Seven
7
pm
utc
is
quite
a
good
time
for
me,
it's
about
8
o'clock
in
the
morning,
so
it's
not
horrendous
to
get
up
so
I'll.
Try
if
these
are
your
regulars,
regular
sort
of
weekly
meetings,
I'll,
try
and
drop
in
from
time
to
time.
Just
remind
me.
B
B
B
So
in
those
sort
of
situations
you
should
try
and
avoid
my
viewers,
you
should
try
and
avoid
things
like
one
person,
one
vote,
you
should
try
and
avoid
strong
identity,
which
then
means
that
you'll
gravitate
more
towards
sort
of
market-based
mechanisms
to
try
and
do
that
where
you've
got
strategic
intent,
because
the
whole
premise
of
a
market
is
you
don't
know
who
the
individual
agents
are.
You've
got
this
abstract
model
where
they're
rational
they're,
making
choices
out
of
self-interest.
B
Those
sort
of
things
yeah,
okay,
but
literally
mark
the
notion
of
markets
for
good,
is
using
market
mechanisms
is
important.
I
don't
has
anyone
come
across
the
radical
exchange,
work
and
radical
markets
I'll
send
that
into
the
chat
as
well?
If
you
haven't
I'd,
encourage
you
to
look
up
at
a
lot
of
what
has
been
done
there
and
if
you
haven't
read
the
book
called
radical
markets,
then
go
over
and
read
that,
and
so,
if
there's
a
parting
thing
in
reference
to
your
comments,
assignment
is
don't
be
afraid
of
markets.
B
The
the
key
trick
here
is:
can
we
use
market
speculative
behavior
to
actually
do
good
and
that's
what
I
think
we
can
do
with
things
like
the
risk-adjusted
bonding
curve
and
given
that
a
lot
of
this
blockchain
space
is
about
token
flipping
and
greed
and
things
like
that?
Don't
fight
it,
let's
see
if
we
can
channel
into
for
good
purposes.
B
That's
kind
of
my
thinking
about
this
and
more
broadly,
the
notion
of
profit
is
the
notion
of
progress.
So
we
can
expand
what
progress
makes
no
statement
about
whether
it's
good
or
bad.
It
just
means
we're
moving
in
some
particular
direction:
we're
making
a
profit.
So
can
we
actually
expand
on
that
to
to
direct
it
to
what
we
think
is
socially
or
environmentally
good.
C
B
And
so
that
radical
market
stuff
goes
into
things
like
you'll,
be
familiar
with
quadratic
voting,
that's
kind
of
where
this
is
where
that
came
from
there's
also
things
like
the
harbinger
tax
or
cost,
which
is
another
kind
of
idea,
which
is
a
really
interesting
one
to
explore
within
the
nft
space
and
there's
various
other
things
in
there.
They,
this
book
was
basically
a
provocation.
B
The
radical
markets,
community
or
radical
exchange
community
has
gone
beyond
that
into
sort
of
civic
infrastructure,
so
their
focus,
admittedly
on
the
board,
is
vitalik,
so
yeah.
Obviously,
a
lot
of
focus
like
with
the
token
engineering
commons
work
on
ethereum,
but
that's
loosening
up
and
we
can
build
bridges
into
those
communities.
B
So,
just
looking
on
their
own
page,
I
had
a
long
session
with
audrey
not
long
ago
and
matt
and
a
few
others
in
there
making
those
bridges
and
so
kendrick
was
doing
the
vote
of
diversity
into
you
know
out
of
katana
around
voting
there
just
having
a
small
discussion
with
some
of
the
people
on
radical
exchange
around
quadratic
voting
and
quadratic
funding
yeah
the
downside
with
things
like
quadratic
voting
is
it
needs
a
notion
of
strong
identity.
Otherwise
it
descends
towards
one
token
one
vote.
B
B
B
So
I'll
give
you
a
little
context
of
new
zealand
aotearoa,
which
is
small
country.
You
know
away
from
everywhere
else.
We've
got
a
bit
of
a
moat
around
us,
which
is
great,
but
what
is
unique
about
new
zealand
with
respect
to
other
western
countries,
particularly
ones
which
have
you
know,
would
be
considered
wealthy
and
first
of
all,
we're
a
high
degree
of
trust
in
the
government,
probably
one
of
the
lowest
countries
with
corruption
and
basically
non-existent.
B
But
we
also
have
a
unique
situation,
which
is
that,
in
a
sense,
the
country
is
supposed
to
be
at
least
co-governed
co-governed
by
the
crown,
which
is
what
we
refer
to
as
the
new
zealand
government
is
at
the
moment,
but
it
was
actually
referred
to
up
until
about
1960s
as
the
settler
government
and
because
this
was
the
colonial
crown
british
coming
in
doing
their
thing
and
the
other
partner
in
that
is
maori
or
the
indigenous
population.
Now
I'm
maori.
B
B
So
here
in
new
zealand,
we've
got
a
interesting
situation
where
we've
got
the
western
notion
of
individual
as
prime
prime
and
also
the
collective
notion
of
tribe,
which
we
refer
to
as
hapu
and
uwe,
depending
on
the
levels
you
go
to
as
it
now.
This
is
actually
baked
into
our
national
constitution,
which
is
not
referred
to
as
the
treaty
and
as
a
result,
we've
got
this
notion
of
partnership
between
the
crown
and
maori.
B
So
this
introduces
the
notion
of
co-governance
both
at
that
macro
level,
but
also
maori
itself
is
a
polycentric
tribal
based.
Society
made
up
of
many
tribes,
many
instincts
of
decision
making
and
it
views
the
world
world
in
terms
of
holistic,
rather
than
the
individual
reductionist.
We
are
not
as
humans.
We
are
not
above
nature,
we
are
part
of
nature
and
that's
very
much
embodied
into
a
lot
of
the
cultural
practices
and
things
that
we
do
so.
For
example,
my
ancestors,
which
are
referred
to
as.
B
Indeed,
most
new
zealand
organizations
are
actually
starting
to
adopt
this
notion
of
maitarang
maori,
which
is
basically
to
incorporate
in
their
governance,
practices,
notions
of
holistic
worldview
and
reporting.
We're
not
perfect
we're
long
way
off,
but
the
trajectory
is
such
that
we're
doing
that.
B
B
So
how
do
you
protect
and
preserve
maori
culture,
and
also
these
notions
of
data
and
maori
data
sovereignty,
and
so
because,
first
of
all,
there's
two
one:
that's
collectivist
so
that
you
can't
identify
an
individual
but
also
from
a
property
rights.
Point
of
view.
It's
not
time-bound
because
my
identity
is
formed
by
my
relationship
to
land
as
much
as
it
is
to
my
relationship
with
other
people
in
my
tribe
and
my
family,
okay,
so
the
narratives
and
stuff
that
come
from
it
is
really
really
important.
B
B
B
A
lot
of
the
situations
or
a
lot
of
the
systems
that
have
been
put
in
or
done
are
often
done
to
manage
the
indigenous
population
not
build
capability
in
the
indigenous
population.
So
there's
a
lot
of
distrust
around
doing
that,
but
in
also
doing
so
progressively
maori
organizations
generally
are
expected
to
be
around
about
20
to
30
percent
of
the
new
zealand's
economy
in
the
next
few
years,
so
not
insignificant
quite
large.
B
So
I
have
been
working
on
a
project
that
we've
got
funded
by
the
government
to
actually
try
and
start
making
progress
on
how
to
bring
the
notions
of
mataranga
maori
into
collective
governance
and
and
incorporate
into
an
extrajudicial
sort
of
ip
system
around
that
sort
of
work,
and
we've
been
doing
that,
along
with
the
waikato
university,
which
I'll
just
call
tahi
research
center
and
they're
doing
some.
What
it's
referred
to
as.
B
And
that's
kind
of
like
these
sort
of
practices
and
rituals,
and
things
like
that,
and
so
the
bigger
question
here
is:
how
do
you
transpose
what
are
typically
practices
and
processes
and
ways
of
thinking
in
the
physical
world?
How
do
you
represent
those
in
digital
environments,
and
these
are
very
similar
to
sort
of
discussions
around?
How
do
we
build
collectives
and
taos?
How
do
we
work
together
more
effectively?
B
More
generally,
so
there's
a
group
that
I'm
part
of
which
is
called
the
maori
data
sovereignty
group,
and
so
my
hope
is
to
three-fold.
Really.
Is
that
one?
We
learn
how
to
do
this
t-color
into
technology
and
transition
that
to
we
open
the
doors
with
our
regulators
here,
the
ird
and
the
financial
market
authority,
because
in
some
respects,
they're
actually
required
to
be
partners
in
market.
So
they
can't
turn
me
away
on
the
basis
of
no.
B
This
is
just
financial
product
go
fit
in
over
here
they
actually
have
to
try
and
work
with
us,
and
so
what
I'm
hoping
is
that
we
can
open
the
door
and
have
a
serious
and
really
constructive
conversation
around
how
to
do
disclosures
and
reporting
on
matters
that
concern
matarangamati,
which
is
fundamentally.
These
esg
related
concerns,
social
and
environmental
reporting
concerns,
and
that
also
fits
in
with
the
treasury,
which
has
been
doing
all
the
well-being
frameworks.
B
Taking
an
indigenous
knowledge.
So
that's
known
as
tomo,
which
means
to
enter
into
an
agreement
or
into
a
marriage
and
that's
work.
That's
getting!
Has
been
funded
and
hopefully
we'll
I'll
talk
a
little
bit
more
about
it
at
a
town
hall
or
something
else
like
that
later,
some
other
time
in
the
future.
C
B
C
I
also
love
the
thought
that
mountains
and
other
things
can
have
sovereign
identity
so
like.
If
we
had
that
here
in
canada,
then
thiel
jones
would
could
be
taken
to
court
for
assault
against
the
ancient
forest,
and
I
think
that
way
of
thinking
about
the
interconnectedness
of
everything
and
having
like
having
rights
to
these
things
that
we
normally
think
of
as
objects
as
rivers
or
mountains
or
forests
is,
is
an
amazing
development,
and
I
would
love
to
know
more
about
that.
B
We're
also
joe-
and
I
are
also
working
on
something
just
at
the
moment,
which
is
so
I've
been
working
on
something
called
the
data
commons,
which
was.
We
also
have
this.
I
thing
called
predator3
2050,
so
in
new
zealand,
for
example,
have
have
anyone
heard
of
the
all
birds
shoes.
Have
you
come
across
all
bed
shoes
they're
made
out
of
them
mourinho
anyway,
they
called
all
birds,
because
new
zealand
used
to
be
all
birds.
There
was
no
mammals
or
pests,
or
anything
else
like
that.
B
and
so
there's
a
huge
program
across
the
country
to
try
and
do
that
and
then
there's
something
like
4
000
community
groups
that
are
doing
things
like
weeding
and
trapping
and
all
sorts
of
stuff
going
on.
But
like
most
things,
you've
got
people
who
are
you
know:
environmental,
pioneers,
they're,
really,
activists,
they're
really
trying
to
change
things,
but
they
may
be
technically
illiterate
in
the
sense
that
most
of
the
data
is
collected
and
on
paper
you
might
be
doing
well
to
get
it
onto
a
spreadsheet
those
sort
of
things.
B
So
how
do
you
build
tools
and
technology
to
collect
that
data
to
measure
progress?
That
was
a
key
idea,
so
we're
taking
some
a
chunk
of
that.
Where
that
we
did
it
several
years
ago
and
a
building
on
top
of
the
tormal
work
for
a
local
hapu
here
called
ngati
hangaro,
which
joe's
partner
is
a
member
of,
and
we've
got
a
large
block
of
land
up
here,
which
they're
trying
to
preserve
and
like
mountains.
B
Nori
trees
are
also
considered
our
ancestors,
particularly
the
really
long
lived
ones,
the
kauri,
the
rimu,
which
are
really
huge
trees
and
things
like
that
and
obviously
got
cut
down
during
colonialism,
but
there's
still
a
lot
of
big
ones.
So
we're
literally
going
around
trying
to
identify
the
trees
and
care
for
them
and
replant
them
replant
space
measure
things
like
the
water
quality,
those
sort
of
things
and
discussing
around
indexes.
That
can
be
useful
for
that.
B
So
one
of
my
favorite
is
something
called
the
tuna
index
which
is,
and
tuna
is
a
eel
brownie
in
new
zealand
and
when
I
was
growing
up
as
a
kid
you
know
it
was
a
a
staple
diet.
I'd
go
down
to
the
river
catch,
some
eel
we'd
go
off
and
smoke
them,
and
that
would
be
part
of
the
marae's.
You
know,
meetings
or
anything
else
like
that
and
so
progressively,
as
new
zealand
has
moved
in
towards
industrialized
farming,
the
water
quality
is
lowered,
and
so
it's
affecting
this
these
heels.
B
So
this
is
a
good
example
of
a
very
relatable
metric.
Can
you
increase
the
number
of
eels
that
are
eaten
in
a
thorough
chi
because
you've
increased
the
water
quality?
The
environment
overall
has
got
a
lot
better,
and
so
we
refer
to
that
as
the
tuna
index
and
it's
a
way
of
making
it
a
metric,
culturally
relevant
and
there's
a
few
others
like
that.
B
C
B
A
C
B
It
would
be
great
yeah
we're
all
trying
to
do
the
same
thing
so
yeah,
let's
pull
it
all
together,
so
I'm
kind
of
using
out
of
pure
purely
out
of
necessity,
or
you
know,
access
to
things,
I'm
using
my
own
country,
my
own
local
environment,
as
my
lab
to
experiment,
there's
a
way
to
think
about
it,
but
these
ideas
and
the
thinking
behind
it.
I
see
no
reason
why
I
can't
scale
globally
and
that's
the
idea
here.
C
B
Yeah,
so
what
I
wouldn't
mind
is
you
know
how
we
go
about
selecting
those
would
be
interesting,
so
I
think
I've
specified
it
being
roughly
around
a
target
funding
amount
of
about
3000
us
tivo's
going
to
do
is
sort
of
money
workshops
and
things
like
that,
and
the
objective
here
is
to
really
kind
of
help.
Everyone
learn
so
and
how
we
select
some
of
the
initial
projects.
We've
got
to
take
it
easy.
We've
got
to
manage
the
expectations.
B
If
we
go
in
and
figure
out
hey
all
of
these
things
are
going
to
work,
then
we're
not
learning
anything
new
and
we
don't
need
the
risk
adjusted
bonding
curve
right
and
so
I'd
be
really
interested
in.
If
assuming
we
do
get
funded,
it
was
pretty
highly
rated
to
start
thinking
about
how
we
select
those
projects.
What
date
do
they
take,
and
I
think
that
learning
will
be
100
relevant
to
little
fish.
C
C
C
B
C
C
Well,
I
wanted
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
what
we
can
do
to
really
start
building
out
stuff,
but
I
think
we
already
have
like
two
hours,
so
maybe
maybe
maybe
I'll
drop
some
something
in
discord,
and
we
can
talk
over
that
over
that,
but
just
a
summary,
what
I
wanted
to
do
was
start
building
out
those
maps.
I
was
thinking
about
building
the
systems
map
of
little
fish,
but
I
think,
starting
with
the
with
the
business
canvas
model,
is
also
fine.
C
C
There
are
different
versions,
but
I
think
one
of
I
mean
they
are
similar
to
each
other
and
we
can
start
with
that
yeah.
So
during
the
week,
let's
just
set
up
a
date
that
we
can
all
meet
and
start
working
on,
okay,
yeah,
sure,
okay,
no
right
sounds
good
good
to
see
you
all
yeah.
Thank
you
very
much.
Thanks.