LittleFish Foundation Weekly, 31 Jan 2022

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: Littlefish Foundation Weekly Meeting 6 - 31/01/2022

Description

The 6th Meeting of Littlefish Foundation. Our main focus today is on our next steps: Building an SPO and approaching token engineering for the Littlefish token.

Github: https://github.com/littlefish-foundation/co-ordination/issues/8
twitter: https://twitter.com/LittleFishDAO

Agenda:
- Whitepaper Update
- Introducing the Platform Design Toolkit
- Tokenomics and SPO Discussions

A

Wait I need to.

B

Welcome everybody uh today's agenda. First of all, we will talk about the white paper and we separated the white paper into sections with charcoal and in some sections we will need your help. The shared github screen.

C

Yes, one moment.

B

And uh also, let me introduce you uh to guy to guy is a friend of mine from university, and uh we we made uh several great things together and he is in south africa right now and he will be moving to norway soon. He is a professor in artificial intelligence. Maybe you can say more together.

B

C

uh James thanks for the introduction, I think you covered everything great.

A

C

All right, thanks guys.

D

So maybe I can take it over from here uh yeah yeah. So what we thought we would do is divide the white paper into like high level sections that we wrote out as these parts and then beneath that we said we put a little.

D

We put some tasks inside that and each task is related to one of the uh sections.

D

uh We wanted to write about the solution, the problem, the social aspects of uh what we're doing being a little fish, and these are the high level sections and we put out some uh some low level uh like actual contents of the white paper, and we already uh had some task delegation between gem and myself, and maybe we can get some help from you guys and in some of these, and also if you have any more ideas on what else we should include.

D

We could also use more content on the white paper as well. So this is the this is probably the most uh important part of the most crucial part of what we should be doing uh right now. So if you can get the white paper at least the first draft and maybe a week or two, that would be pretty good.

D

That's all right are the next thing on our agenda is something called the platform design toolkit. uh Maybe some of you guys have heard of these guys. These are the token engineering community. um So these are the. uh This is the main community that is dealing with uh designing token economics, and this is how they divide.

C

Up the entire ecosystem.

D

uh Into different fields, so uh so, as some of you have already known my opinions on how to build token engineering, uh this, this is where I'm coming from, and I'm talking about it being a very complicated and difficult subject to approach, because it incorporates a lot of different ideas, uh of course, there's game theory and economics, and behavioral economics and governance, and all that, but there's also some really uh high-level stuff, like uh law and ethics philosophy.

D

uh These guys are really diving deep into it and they got some academic papers and all that and the first thing that they're suggesting that any token engineering uh study should do is uh do this. This is the platform design toolkit. It's not really uh a crypto related thing only. It is uh for a lot broader uh aspect. If you're designing any platform any business. Really, you can use this to understand what you're doing a lot better. So what I did is I went into it.

D

I only got through a little bit of it to be honest, but the entire thing is made up of several uh canvases that we can fill out to understand what we're doing and I'd like to show you just a little bit of it. Just to give you an idea, uh and maybe over over the next few weeks, I'm going to be delving much deeper into this to understand, and maybe I'll hold some workshops to explain it to all of you.

D

So we can build on this and build something like this in time of course, because this is very complicated when you look at it from this perspective, but I'd like to show you just just a little bit of it to give you an understanding of it to what it does, and maybe I can share the other screen. That's a little better and I'm going to share you share with you all the information on this feel free to interrupt and ask questions please, because it's a lot better that way.

D

So this is from the pdf that they shared, and these this is just the few steps that, uh when you're doing the platform design thing that you're going through so the first thing you do is map the ecosystem is where you uh think about the actual players and the entities within your ecosystem and what they're doing and who's this who's, providing the supply who's, providing the demand, and next you go into how those uh defining the roles between those the one that I found very interesting, was how excel values exchanged between those roles.

D

This is especially crucial for tokenomics design, because that is pretty much. What we're doing is designing how value exchanges hands between the different parts of the ecosystem, so donators will be giving money to activists, so that is one method of exchange, and how do we want to incentivize the correct uh things while we're doing that- and there are a few more uh few more canvases that I didn't really go into at this point, but just to give you an idea of what these look like is pretty much. We just go into a mirror board.

D

We put put on some ideas. We put a donator here and then we say donator does this. Does that and once we have this going, we will have a much better understanding of what it is that little fish foundation really wants to become, and I think that is it for me for now.

D

um Maybe we we thought we could talk about the continue, the tokenomics discussion that we we were having between uh between a few of us on saturday, and maybe your um you would like to pitch in on the sbo idea that we were talking about.

A

Actually sebastian id, but I can sebastian if you want to take, I I did the mirror design kind of the process, but we spoke on saturday a lot about economics and value and all of that and then sebastian and then say: okay, let's simplify it. Let's start with the sp out. uh Testing is a good idea. um Yeah I mean it's great what you shared by the way, I think a lot of work to do there, but it's great it's great format.

C

A

Sebastian you want to comment on that or you want me to move the spoons.

C

uh No, you go ahead if you have the the middle ready.

A

Yeah I mean, if we can share, can you show the mirror of that? It's in the normal mirror? If you can show your screen and kind of show the flow, and we can discuss that.

D

I'm trying to find it if somebody has the link.

A

It's in the normal, your aim of a jacob.

B

C

Hey, how are you.

A

C

Nice to meet you.

E

A

B

Hey jacob welcome back, I'm never.

E

I'm not sure how much I can stay with you guys, but I'll listen as much as.

C

E

B

D

A

B

Yes, we will be creating our own token for uh having it and value, and we are discussing how to do that.

B

We we don't want to have a simple token, but a complex one, and we want it to be sustainable for all the times.

A

Yeah so after our talk uh yeah, if any story in german can I go.

C

Oh yeah, yeah, okay, so.

A

After our talk on saturday, I just you know just it was in my mind. I said: okay, let's design it okay and try to open a conversation about it. So, under on the right side, we see a little fish platform for listed projects right.

A

So, according to what we spoke up to now, the objective of little fish is to lift thousands tens of thousands projects from the ground right and for that we need to build couple of couple of capabilities in my view, which is the yellow part right so and this this is actually the product of little fish right so how to on board projects how to create the to value the impact of projects, how to write the expense, registration and transparency report platform, and all of that thing.

A

That kind of this is the product of up littlefish jump um thanks daniel um and then and then we said, okay on the other side, how can we start financing it, so it can be by by spos right. So we have little efficiency, po and- and it can be any other impact spill right. So we want reward transfer to little fish. A small percentage of this reward transfer will be used for litter fish operation. Let's say two percent again, just a number like that and what they will get back for now.

A

The value they will get back is impact nft which detail in the how the money was spent and the impact of the money, and they will get a little fish token, which we need still to figure out. Yes, I I I played with a numeric example. If we look on the example, so if, if we- and it would be actually quite interesting, if we think about the token ecosystem, we will go into probably- let's say I don't know- um 20 billion either we are now in 40 billion, but that is taking 2 billion.

A

If we put objective that 5 out of that within few years will come to little fish um from all the spo, and then we speak about four to five percent uh rewards, speaking about between 80 to 100 million aides a year um that will go to project and two present to the basic human energy system right, that's kind of the the mindset of that uh nft value. We need to discuss it, how we create the value in the nft, so we spoke about it.

A

It will be impact, nifty value impact evaluation already, but also it can have maybe artistic value it can have a carbon footprint value can be many things that we need to discuss um and the initial money if we can raise initial money also from spos basically for the operation.

A

So if you share with them the vision, it might be an opportunity actually to sell some of the spo uh give your rewards here in order to create the system right so be part of creating the system, and maybe they will get some on that they will get some.

A

I don't know governance tokens or we need to think about it again, just it's all just an ideas right that just they put forward yeah. Yes, sir, so.

E

So um I think what we you know, what what one thing that needs to be planned on on the on the back end is how we take snapshots of who's, taking um uh from which apoc, because I know that this is something that, for example, meld did or genius yield, and uh it's uh it's an easy way to recognize and to later distribute tokens.

E

um But basically you know we don't need to issue our own token just yet. We just need to capture the addresses that are staking their ada and reward them in the future retrospectively. So, potentially you know we can start talking about little fish token already, even though we don't have it.

A

I think it's a good point: yeah yeah. I think.

C

A

A great point, and as sebastian says potentially, if we do it with spo, we don't actually need the token in the first phase right if we're able to convince spos to support. Also the the cons, the the built-in of that right.

F

A

Initially, all the money will go into building the platform uh and and they will get some kind of benefit from that recognition or out of the governance or of the dao or I don't know. We need to think about that um and then.

E

You can do yeah, you can do all all sorts of things. You know if we capture that certain address has been staking with us, for you know, since this ebook now, uh for I don't know 50 epochs whatever, then we can, you know, give them uh a reward ft. We can give them tokens whatever, but you know when we, it's just the mechanism of capturing the snapshots of the addresses.

E

That's really important.

A

I think what I agree. I think what is important here is to understand between the product. What is the product, so the product is really what littlefish platform and the kind of services we offer with that, and then the second part is the money finance right, but but the platform itself, that's.

A

What interesting is the product, um in my view, and then the and then we need to convince spo that it's attractive enough to to support it and- and if you think about it, there's so many sports do they already do impact right, but they do impact for ngos that are not on the blockchain that doesn't have this transparency that other level the tools that we are providing.

A

So there's no reason that littlefish will become the channel between the spos and transferring the money to activities they want to support right plus getting all the value that they get with the transparency traceability. All of that, I think, can be quite visible. In my view,.

G

If you're targeting say a billionaire, you need 16 stake, pools that are fully saturated to support that now, if it's 2 billion you need about 32 stake pools, so we're talking about a lot of stake pools here that need to be operated. If we're talking about that kind of scale,.

C

How long a time are you calculating that nori.

G

um I'm just taking a fully saturated stake pool is 65 million ada ish. I just divided that by 65 million to get the numbers take postmates.

C

Because things take yeah right.

A

Yeah, but initially we need to see how much money we need to phase one right for basically building the platform, because there is some there's, some good investment needed to build a platform. I assume um in the process and the product how much we need for the initial phase and then and yeah. They have milestones basically three months, milestone six months nine months and define how much we want was the target and how much we need for each phase if it makes sense to everyone this model again, just uh yes.

B

It's it's reasonable. First, we can create the staple that that can share the rewards. Okay, so the conventional staples doesn't share the rewards, you know, so we will have some modifications on the staple infrastructure and we can't promote to other state pools and we can reach that values.

A

Yeah, I think it would be good now to evaluate what we need to develop technology wise and what's the cost of that like if it's one million half a million hundred thousand, I mean to do kind of for first the version and then see how many, how much I mean how much money mistake would we need for that, and I.

G

Don't know we could start simple and maybe sign up with drip, drops and and tie that into one steak, pool or two that are already running and then run it that way. So anybody who delegates to those stake pools can get a little fish token or whatever it's that system already works and tracks wallets and distributes rewards. So it might be good if we want to get started fast to just look at drip, drops and leverage existing infrastructure rather than building something from scratch.

B

A

I mean it will not get to 2 billion. In I mean it will take some time. Obviously,.

D

Nori, could you explain what drip drops is? First.

G

Let me bring up the website. It's drip drops dot, io.

G

And there's the chat from here.

G

That's the website that.

C

G

And basically,.

G

A lot of spos are already using drip, drops to register a token and their pool, and then anybody who's delegated to that pool can claim the drip, drops and there's a how it works section and a frequently asked question.

G

And this might not be a perfect fit, but there are other systems out there like this, that are already created to allow spos to airdrop tokens to delegators, based on how much they've delegated in a given epoch.

G

But I it's probably technology, that's either open source and available or something we want to look at building. But if we want to get started soon, I was just pointing out. There are already live systems that are doing similar things that we could leverage.

D

So what do we need to do to get it going.

B

There should be a registration form of drip groups that are, if, if you search it, you can find it so, but it's not on their website.

G

And as jacob mentioned, we could just capture a snapshot of all the wallets and how much they've delegated every epoch and retroactively reward people once we do have stuff ready, there's nothing stopping us from launching now and allowing people to delegate, and in fact I think, all of the delegation data is on the blockchain. So you might not even need to do a snapshot. It's probably queryable at any time.

E

Oh, that's even better.

B

Nori, can we start doing this? Can we have a workshop about it as a technical guarantee.

G

Yeah, um it might be worth looking into and playing with drip drops and just talking about it on the tech side, um okay,.

E

What we want to build something like isp or dashboard.

E

So that people can look up their stake, stake address and see what a location they have.

B

Yes, they also have to assign the value that they want to share with little fish. So normally you know they are taking the rewards themselves, but in our case they will be sharing it with us or the project that they support.

E

But is this something we want to do in in in starting the stake pool as then allow the user to choose? How much do we want to donate.

B

E

Okay, nori, would you know if this is already um been done somewhere.

G

Sorry, I don't. I didn't quite understand that about the donation.

E

So so what chem is saying is that used, while delegating their adder user can decide how much he wants to um how much of the rewards he wants to delegate towards little fish and how much he wants to keep? Is that a dynamic um thing.

G

That is that's not possible in the current state of things. The stake pool itself will set a margin and that right margin. It's usually like five percent or something, but for a truly mission driven thing. It could probably be higher and that's what's divided out between the stake pool and the delegator.

E

Yeah, that's what I thought.

G

um Another thing.

C

G

Thinking is, adapools has an extended metadata scheme for stake, pool so that you can add stuff like social media, stuff and things.

G

One thing that might be really interesting for either cardano for climate or little fish is to extend that extended metadata and have sdg impact related metadata, so stake pools can actually indicate if they are carbon neutral, they can indicate which charities and which stds they actually support. If they're impact driven and then they could register that on chain and then we'll be able to query it out and automatically create dashboards of stake, pools that support specific sdgs.

G

I think that would be a really great community thing, and then people can stake to the pools that are supporting the charities that they or the sdgs that they really want to support.

A

Yeah, it's also a way I mean all this spo that already supporting projects we can upload their projects right to littlefish. So.

C

A

And then they have the projects so yeah.

G

The problem right now is that we have to get them to tell us that they're here or we have to find them. But if we make a metadata extension, they could register it on the chain themselves and we just query it directly from the blockchain to say which pool, support, sdeg number 13 and it would show up.

G

I think that would be a really powerful social.

C

Impact feature.

G

For the blockchain yeah.

E

Where can you see the um sort of format of this metadata is that in somewhere in other polls,.

G

um The example shows you kind of the format.

E

I'll just have you showing okay.

G

And right now it's just a url to icons and logos, logos and location, and then some social media handles some company information and an about. But since this is just json, you can arbitrarily add another field to call like social impact and then have like sdgs or whatever we'd have to think about the exact json format. But if we just start using it and put it out there, people can start to adopt it, and then we can query their metadata directly using a pretty simple script.

E

D

Nori I was about to ask uh so where is this metadata used and how can we use it when we extend it with climate change info and other sdg related info.

G

Right so it's used primarily at adapools.org, but also other services that query the blockchain and show spo data.

G

So one thing we might do to make it more official is get together with ada pools and talk to them about extending their metadata standard, because this one everybody uses to add our impact related fields.

G

And yeah- I just thought about this, because my stake pool one of the guys there is putting forward a proposal to look at the metadata and extended metadata and ensure that the data is actually clean because he ran a script to pull all this data recently and some people are putting a url where it's supposed to be a business name and their their data is corrupt and their inputs are not very good. So we were going to start a service to notify stake, pools that have incorrect metadata.

G

But that made me think. Maybe we could extend this took the the impact space and because there's so many stakeholders now that are supporting different impact initiatives, and we should make that public and known and put it on the chain, so anybody can find it. I think that would be the natural extension of these metadata things.

E

And nori: is there um I'm just thinking um outside of cardano in any proof of stake you know, ecosystem were staking is possible as well. Is this metadata you know, could we turn it into a standard that could be cross chain.

G

Possibly I don't know about other chains and whether they have stake pool metadata at all. They may, but their systems might be completely different. So but yeah, that's a good question if they're similar to cardano- and they do metadata like this- then absolutely it'd be great to have a standard.

E

I was just thinking that you know this could potentially allow us to benchmark uh different different different blockchains, um but I guess it's a long shot. So just thinking out loud.

A

By the way, we had a call a couple of days ago, rather than myself, with blockchain for good, there's kind of an organization doing across blockchain good stuff trying to but anyway, just again, I'm just trying to take jacob id and forward a little bit anyway. I think we need we can need to focus now on the.

A

On our ecosystems start.

D

You're, um did you have a a meeting with carter.

A

Yeah you cancelled it, I I I was supposed to have it on seven, but he wrote us an email an hour before he said it's going crazy with the public sale and, let's see if we can delete it in a few days, but basically they raised the 10 million.

A

They raised everything they managed to raise everything, and one of my ideas is actually to tell them.

A

Why not create a partnership with the every company launching on the launch pad will guarantee a small percentage of the like one percent or whatever 0.5 percent of the money they are recruiting into impact into into little fish, and that can be an interesting order or 0.1 whatever. It is, and I saw it happen in startups technology startups, but you kind of give options.

A

It kind of can be the same. So.

D

A

If they will be agreed to that, that will be massive because they're going to launch a lot of companies on the launch pad.

A

So kind of final condo and they can decide- I mean the company can decide which project to dedicate it to and so on if they want. Well, let's see so it didn't happen today, but I have a call with robert enough in our.

A

Speak about several things, and one of them is little fish and set up a meeting whenever we are ready. I don't know if you tell me if you want ready to try wednesday or thursday this week, like availability, that sebastian and check and gave me or you want, but we want to wait a little bit.

A

But what's your suggestion, let's do it, let's tell him to.

A

Let's organize the meeting with him.

D

um I think we had like three uh a total of three meetings that we were going to set up, uh maybe discuss them all and then decide which ones we want to have first and which ones. Maybe we want to do a little bit later on.

D

I think in that, in that meeting on uh saturday we had sebastian. You were talking about a meeting with daniel, if I recall correctly and.

A

D

Yes from aragon, uh who was helping you out with the nfd dao.

C

No, I said he does workshops on the nft dao and those.

D

C

For everyone to this, but no no, not a meeting with him. No, it's.

D

Just the workshop okay, uh I'm miss colton, uh maybe I'm misremembering, but we had. Maybe we were gonna set up another meeting. Anyone remember it.

A

There's carter shift and robert right I mean cuddle shift.

C

A

um Kind of the initial meeting is about the cadance for climate, and how can we collaborate and bring them projects which little fish can be one project by the way as well, and then I want to take it also to how can we collaborate with littlefish, specifically yeah.

C

B

Gimbal ups sort yeah.

D

So james from gimbal apps, maybe we can uh melanie.

C

D

C

D

Bit about that, and maybe we can figure out which who we want to talk about talk to first.

F

Kind of listening in I've I've lost my internet for a little while so I'm not quite up to snuff, but um who else is in the course yorum.

A

No, I mean you wanted to. I think one of the things you wanted to organize is a kind of a brainstorming session. I think with uh james. If I remember correctly,.

F

Yeah I haven't uh got a reply back from him through discord. Maybe we can bring that up tomorrow at the um during the course yeah can we do? Can we do that.

A

But you want it, you want it as a call with all the group of tomorrow. We want the dedicated call for little fish.

F

A

F

Or well totally up to you guys, I'm just thinking that if we can bring it up with james when we talk to him tomorrow, it might be um might not be good, because it's during the course that we're taking right.

A

F

A

Course that is focused on gimbal lab token.

C

F

um I'll uh re-message him and anybody else please feel free to do that, um he's pretty busy. So uh we'll get.

C

His attention sooner.

F

H

Later uh by course, your refer balance thing that happens at 4p, uh 5 pm, utc right.

F

The one we're talking about is the tokenomics. Behind the gimbal token, uh it's.

C

F

A

It's a separate call, the kind of stuff that already dimitri and kind of organized some, he kind of wanted to do a brainstorming sessions with few people.

H

D

So there are three people that we can talk to. uh The first is uh someone from card starter. I think we should put that uh last, because that is about uh it takes a lot more than the others. Maybe uh maybe we can talk to james and robert first uh since melanie will be talking to uh james tomorrow. Let's wait for that and then, after that, maybe we can uh set up a meeting with robert later on this week early on next week.

D

Does that sound? Okay.

A

Yeah yeah, I will get over the availability today and and share with you and try to arrange for everyone.

D

And these meetings uh will mainly be uh focusing on tokenomics, so anyone uh who's interested in rolling out the tokenomics of little fish are, of course, free to join. Welcome to join.

A

Yeah robert have a lot of knowledge so to channel this knowledge, so I mean you have so much knowledge.

A

We need to challenge it somehow to channel it to where we, where we need help.

E

Do we have any proposal for tokenomics, um as in you know, do you want to make it inflationary deflationary? What kind of supply market capital yeah.

B

Yeah, we don't do anything yet yeah, we are reading the documentation and it's really engineering system. So we have to engineer the token first of all and we will decide everything afterwards.

D

Okay, okay, I'd like to share uh share the screen again, so this is a very uh deep field of understanding. This is people are approaching this as a new academic engineering field, not as a software engineering field where you just build something, and then you build on top of it and you can make mistakes, it can correct mistakes.

D

It's more of a field like uh civil engineering, where there are no mistakes like you, can't make any mistakes or people die. So that is the approach that people are taking to token engineering.

D

So what we need to do is get a real, deep understanding of what we're doing and how to do it, and at least getting on get into an understanding of a workflow of the steps we need to take to achieve what we want to do so one one of the uh one of the things that was on my mind was: uh can we actually launch a token and then build on top of the token with smart contracts as we want to do so?

D

That means like do? We need to build inside the token itself the functionality that we want like do? We need to build inside of it the donation, functionality and everything else, or can we just launch the token and then build it on top, and would that be okay?

D

Questions like that, I think, are a little unanswered at this point and we need to get a better grip of uh grip of these questions before we can start answering questions like do we want it to be inflationary, do we want it to be deflationary and everything else that comes after it?

D

E

A good point, uh but also check them. I think you know what we could consider you know, given that our ecosystem is going to be quite um well quite complex and quite smart uh is that we launch with something like with some token that people can later exchange for the little fish token, whether it's some kind of you know nft as proof of participation or if it's a temporary token. You know that's also an option.

B

Yeah I mean jacob, we can do the token distribution. At least we can have a value, a percentage of the tokens and we can start distributing it and we can't design the initial token distribution. Charcon is talking about the exchange of the token, so it can be done anytime.

B

So, first of all, we can decide what the distribution, what the percentage of the tokens will have. So, if you have any ideas about it and you can share it on mira work, so we have a token distribution check there. So, if you have anything in mind, please write down there.

D

Okay, right for now, uh any ideas on tokenomics should go on the mirror board. Where we have a place dedicated to economics.

D

Maybe I can share it and if we can put such ideas- and I think it is a very good idea to maybe launch a secondary token- that can that we may be able to exchange later on for the real little fish token things like that, let's put on the mirror board right here in the tokenomics section, so we can really get an idea of all the ideas that we have and decide what path we want to take and I'll also put the mirror board once again in the chat.

B

So guys it's a new topic, you know economics. Would you like to involve the engineering of the what's your opinion.

C

I will be happy to do soju. I will.

D

Just have a look at the website, as I can share it, and.

C

I'll be happy to participate in the meetings thanks. Okay,.

B

I I will let you to technical commentary in the discord channel, so we are talking here.

B

E

I think it's always you know a challenge and I think uh what we need to just embrace is the fact that whatever we design in the first place in the first iteration is not going to be right, um but it's going to be a start, for you know, improvements and and further um refinement.

E

So yeah if you've got some ideas or you saw something, I think, let's, let's just change it.

H

Can I uh share something yeah sure go ahead: okay, I'm not a technical person, so I'm not familiar about the benefits or the types of tokens, but perhaps if the ones who are aware of what are the different types of tokens, what are the advantages of one type over another type? That way we can get an idea of what are the different types, the pros and cons of the different types and then kind of get a better idea as to how to choose the best for little fish.

D

There are a few resources where we can uh learn those things. We've shared a few of them within our discord. I'll uh put some more and more of those uh into the chat. uh One of them yoram is holding up the token economy book by lisa tan. It is probably the bible of token engineering at this point and we're all in the process of reading it. So none of us really know what we're doing at this point, we'll figure it out hopefully in time also.

G

Available for free on github.

D

All right could we also share that link.

C

D

C

G

Let me find it.

B

You know, I think it's a commercial book.

G

The token economics.

C

Yes, um I would like to go back to something that jacob did, because I'm not sure if iteration works with tokens, I mean once the token are out there. It's like a living system right, so you can.

E

Yeah, I I meant I meant only on on paper. Just you know, put a proposal of how things would work uh and then put it up for discussion and identified. You know the the things that are wrong with that, because uh you know, I'm pretty sure that's going to be the case with whoever presents the first version that there's going to be some sort of improvement. I'm talking about theory only before we actually start developing smart contract, but you know building that as a as a token just the design. I mean.

C

Sure that makes sense.

A

Yeah one one idea around that is to find someone that already did launch a token right. I mean and and kind of have their support. So not the sunday swapped, I'm kidding um no.

C

A

Cuddle shift, or I mean with them, we can speak. Obviously.

E

I think with kardashian you know. Great lesson from kardashian is the way they executed their flash sale and public sale. That's I found it very, very well executed.

C

I'm still I'm still curious as to why everyone is getting this token out so quickly. I think, um like um mal attacks, I think they've been you know, giving it out for a couple weeks or months and sunday swap as well it's over five epochs. I think that they give out their tokens.

C

I mean it's a bit weird to me that everyone is doing that. Oh, it seems to me at least that way.

A

I mean just the beginning, you know there should be many more coming.

C

Well, is there anyone who participated to carter shift ico process.

C

You did I tried, but I think they don't allow icu participation from turkey, so they never send me a notification or anything. Although I registered for the ico.

E

So I did my kyc uh and I got two emails. First, one was said that you know the kyc is being processed and then the second followed that the kyc is uh successful. I've been verified, um did you get any of those emails.

C

No not really- and I was taking through the um social media for turkish participants and finally, they fared there. It's not possible to participate from turkey. At this point.

C

People and then.

C