MakerDAO Community Collateral Onboarding, 28 Oct 2020

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: Community Collateral Onboarding Call: October 28, 2020

Description

Introduction: @juanjuan
Presentation 1 (0:00:54): Curve.fi

Agenda and Discussion:
https://forum.makerdao.com/t/agenda-discussion-collateral-onboarding-call-14-wednesday-october-28-18-00-utc/4840

Governance Forum:
https://forum.makerdao.com/

Disclaimer: These calls and the summaries are produced and hosted by MakerDAO community members. Content produced by the community are not the statements or views of the Maker Foundation.

A

B

So welcome everyone to another collateral morning. Call um today is october. The 28th 2020. um yeah, we're with the with the team of curve finance.

B

That's uh well we're going to explain a little bit more how how the project works, uh what uh and a little bit how it relates to to maker and the crv token as a collateral, the impact and and whatnot. So, ideally, we have like a relaxed conversation.

B

uh So if you guys have any questions, um you don't need to wait until the end. uh We can. We can kind of, interrupt and and make sure that everything is understood so michael, if you want to to take it away.

A

uh Yeah yeah, so um I don't know how how much contacts do you have but yeah the curve is obviously automatic market maker which which allows to swap between stable coins and yeah. So there are um well kind of not.

C

A

Any swap, but allowing for much higher efficiency for stable coin swaps, and there are like, um let's see if I can probably uh maybe I can open the let's see if I can open the browser and do like something- um let's say- um live demo yeah. Well, not not like demo, but maybe I can supply a supplement. What I'm saying with the with what's.

B

A

um And yeah, so uh let's say I can we can talk about uh like both curve tokens and uh you know, pool lp tokens which are also interesting for collateral purposes.

A

So anyway, um um oh, I cannot share the screen. While someone is sharing the screen. Okay,.

B

A

uh Yeah one second, um I think it is share and share right.

C

A

Okay, so um yeah, I have it a little bit in style um yeah. So it's uh um basically, we have like multiple pools with multiple coins and um let me first explain like about pool liquidity provider.

C

A

And then about a curve curved dial token, and so um there are multiple pools. Each pool has consists of different stable coins so um like, for example, this one, the three pool, consists of die, usdc and usdt.

A

Some pools use landing like, for example, this y pool has a profit, switching landing with iron, with four stable coins, and there are also metaphors which, like, like you, know like this usd m2, for example, which basically players uh which pair um you know some one, one stable coin with a pool token of another pool. So what is pool token- and I think that's probably would be pretty interesting here um so deposits in pools are represented with tokens. They are tokenized, just like uni swap deposits.

A

Let's see, if I have do, I have any deposits here. I guess not, okay, anyway, so uh the deposits in the pools are tokenized. So when you deposit- I don't know, um you know, one die you get. I don't know.

A

You basically get some lp tokens and um yeah each pool has this token contract so and this uh deposit, the this full token, is a proper like prc20, representing um pool ownership um well, uh and what's interesting about that, you could use this uh uh deposit token as a stable coin, although it's not uh with constant price, is it's with constantly growing price, so, for example, in this three pool, um the value of one lp token is 1.0039.

A

And um it it only grows with time. um I guess the best to see is like is to use some old pool like white pool, uh which has a lot of statistics over there. So the pool token price was basically growing like this so well. This is basically pool talking price minus one multiplied by hundred showing as profit. But uh you know there is uh like real price in usdc as like light blue line and dark blue line, is there like a solid line? um Is there something we call virtual price?

A

What is great about this virtual price is that it cannot be manipulated, so whatever people do, uh it can only go up um and um it's uh it kind of makes it pretty interesting for uh for collateral by itself.

A

um Now, let's uh um um kind of slowly go to to curve to curve token crv. So crv is a governance token which allows to participate in in the dow. So you know here we have curve dow and yeah. You can vote for different pools. You can create and vote for new proposals like this one, and also also you um also this um governance token.

A

When you use it for governance, you have to lock it, but when you lock it, it entitles you for, uh for some uh crv uh obtained from fees from admin fees, and also uh also it allows to to boost liquidity production in in curve sorry to boost curve production in curved pools. So what is that? Basically, we distribute crv to liquidity providers at the moment, so, like liquidity, mining and how it works.

A

uh We deposit tool token into um into something we call gauges uh and the gauges measure um like uh how how much how how many deposits did you did you have there and for how long. So, for example, if you deposit a b usd pool token, um uh if you.

D

Deposit the usd.

A

Pool token into into the gauge you get 18 uh 18 api plus um 5.63, going from fees. Well, what's interesting, if you locked some curved tokens to get this, you know voting power vecrv.

A

You can boost this api to 45.

A

So um another thing which would make a great collateral is actually also pull tokens but deposited into gauges so that they earn crv at the same time, and we have we just developed uh tokenized gauges which uh basically probably make it easier to use as collateral, and uh it would basically here it would earn 18 in cre plus 5.63.

A

While let's say you could use that as collateral, and it would essentially be like stable coin collateral again uh well, almost stable coin, because it would be growing slowly and thirdly uh well. I've described the function of curved token, but you it's possible to use curve token as collateral by itself and like it.

A

I don't know like how many people it would make sense to use. But uh for me I guess it does make sense. uh um It does make sense to to use a curved token and borrow against them. So that's kind of um if you are loan curve- it's, as you probably know great for, like for tax purposes or whatever. But of course you probably would want uh like the safety of this collateral.

A

So um um and although the market for crv is pretty volatile, it's um a very liquid, I would say so. uh You probably always have liquidity for um to to buy and sell, and that's probably great for liquidations, and I guess, if needed, we could uh definitely like, like you know that we have.

A

um We are interacted with chain link and they really kind of really would want a crv price feed for something we wanted to use it, but um yeah right now we are not using it, but uh maybe if, if curve token is used as collateral, that would be kind of very useful um yeah. I guess that's kind of what what I would like to to tell for the moment without preparing for anything so um yeah, oh well, maybe one thing to mention: we have not only usd pools.

A

We also have btc pools which have different sorts of btc on ethereum like, for example, this um tbtc pool is actually tbtc made. As a metaphor, with uh against um uh sbtc pool uh curve token, and just as any pool, they have a virtual price.

A

So here it's 1.006, which is means that one pool token for tbtc pool is slightly more expensive than one bitcoin, um so it can be used just as a bitcoin collateral. So anyway, um that's um that's kind of what it is in brief and yeah. You can ask any questions which you know I can answer or angel can.

B

Michael when you deposit one of the well either stable coin or one of the btc wraps, um and then you have like a representation of of that pool.

B

How so it's not clear to me when you redeem it, can you redeem it for any of the three? Do you.

A

Just you can't redeem it into any of the three that's correct, oh actually, I can show uh I have actually some deposit in tbtc pool because I seeded it um and let's say if we want to withdraw well, we can withdraw in combination of all coins in the current proportion, but I could withdraw all hundred percent in I don't know wrapped btc and yeah. I would have a tiny slippage here or I could redeem all in tbtc right or in sbtc.

A

Well, svtc is a little bit cheap right now looks like so I have bonus here, I'm guessing a bit more sbtc than yeah, oh yeah and actually in real bitcoin. I would also get a bonus because wrapped btc tends to be a little bit expensive uh because, like people prefer to go one way versus the other, so if you want to get it in in real btc, um it's actually you get a little bit more btc, then um than than what it kind of would be would be like.

A

What's supposed to be, and the kind of the difference turns out to be exactly the fees which coin leaves charge, it charges you to wrap. Btc to wrap the btc so um anyway, so yeah um and you can redeem uh you can actually withdraw like when you withdraw a combination of points you can uh choose. I don't know different quantities like you know you withdraw 0.1 of this 0.2 days and 0 0 this.

A

That's all that also works so, and uh you can do that like not only from ui, you can do it from any um from any like smart contract.

A

So if you, if you want to, um I don't know if you want to do some liquidation of uh of collateral, you can use um this sort of collateral as the market for like bitcoin. So let's say you want to um you used uh this pool token as collateral, and you want to um to have.

A

I don't know a wrapped btc right, you, you can actually convert it to you know with either withdraw wrapped btc from it or like converts it completely to wrapped btc, and it's by itself, sir, like this deposit and withdrawal serves by itself as a trade as a market for uh for the lp token, and the same applies to uh to usd pools. So, let's say: if you have, I don't know: um if you have this uh um yeah, um oh well, wait. I want to withdraw right.

A

So if you um oh of course I don't have coins. So I don't have coins here, uh but.

D

A

So if you uh you, you have a lp talking for three pool. You definitely can withdraw everything in usdc or everything in die um and that's kind of helpful. I guess for you, it's always kind of cool, to withdraw everything and die.

C

A

But yeah um so it's kind of um oops press here. So it's kind of a useful, uh useful construct because you automatically have markets for all lp tokens.

B

Oh go ahead. Sorry.

E

Yeah, uh uh I just want to add that um oh yeah, uh it will be. uh I think that there will be quite a lot of utilization on crv and about the um lp tokens. It's as michael said, it's basically uh can act as a stable coin, so it would be very interesting to have um have them on board that, because, basically people can borrow against them or can put them as collateral and they act as.

E

B

I wanted to touch on something before uh going into the deeper details, but uh I wanted to ask when you, when you redeem the defaults that you get. Is that, based on on how much you put or on the state of the pool at that in that given moment.

E

It's based on the state of the pool in that given moment. That is, if you want to withdraw without any slippage or bombs, but you can withdraw in one coin or in whatever coins you prefer.

B

People depositing one coin or the other.

A

uh Well, it's the price which incentivizes that so uh the pool like have nothing to do with it, but they follow the market price and if the like, the market price is high. Obviously you get more lp tokens for for the more for the more expensive uh coin um and.

D

B

A

Yeah and actually like it's like when you um try to withdraw in one coin, uh from the pool like when you do other liquidations and stuff. That's where you need to be kind of a little bit uh cautious about how you uh like about manipulations with flash loans, and there are some apparently good, workarounds possible without having any without having price oracles, for example, or.

D

A

Or with having price oracles too,.

D

Hey um I had one question: I came a little late, um but uh will you be able to use the uh pools as collateral for vaults? Let's say: there's a bitcoin pool um yeah.

A

Yeah, of course, like.

D

You can use cool.

A

D

A

You also like can probably uh do it so that you, while you have it as collateral, you earn crv. Why not.

D

Yeah and you could have it even if it's in the gauge.

A

Yeah yeah, like we have like we just recently developed uh tokenized gauges, so we can. We can do that with gauges. Yes,.

C

Awesome all right cool.

B

Yeah right now, under the the proposed uh token, is the crv token, but I guess uh the pools could be proposed as well.

A

Yeah yep, uh so I'm I just wanted kind of to touch base on both right and uh yeah. Crv, of course, makes sense, but it's just like you know, crv is is just probably like any other token so um and it powers all this system, but you have actually many many more tokens here. So if it's interesting all right thanks.

B

Nice does anyone have any questions, a question maybe.

D

um Yeah sorry, I got knocked off because of electricity problems, but I'm just kind of curious. Don't know if you guys talk through the distribution of crv like it seems to be a pretty large amount. So just from a token mechanics perspective like.

A

Yeah yeah, the distribution uh looks uh kind of similar to the emission schedule is kind of similar to bitcoin's emissions emission schedule. So it starts from zero and uh um kind of um the inflation drops by factor of uh square root of sorry uh two to the power of one fourth uh every year and uh yeah. So it's basically um dropping by factor of two in four years.

E

A

You know you know split in in such a way that every year this adjustment happens um so and yeah. That's.

D

I'm sorry it would be a good question that you might have covered, but like does the crv token eventually earn some of the fees.

A

Yes, yes, but it's not pure token, it's actually when you lock the token for governance. So when you log the token for governance, you get the it, it is represented by not movable token called the ecrb and uh towards that like. When you lock curve token, you can earn uh fees for, like basically admin fees from all the pools.

D

And what's the current yield on that.

A

uh So if I'm not mistaken, the current yield on that is 256 percent apy.

A

um Well, I mean thanks to their to the hacker who uh like who uh produced a lot of fees on monday.

D

A

D

Right, I see and what is it in a normal month.

A

uh About 100 percent well,.

D

That's still amazing: okay, yeah.

A

Yeah I mean uh you, you know their curve. Token price is volatile so um and there are some uncertainties. So that's why, if you calculate it to like the value of crv, it's like the apy is so high, but yeah. Apparently it is.

E

One thing is that there is some inverse relationship between that vcr, vapori and crv price. So if survey price drops, the api goes up actually.

A

Well, I mean that's kind of what you would have with stocks, so imagine that you had if you had profit distribution, buyer dividends and the stock price fell down by a factor of 10, but your dividends stayed the same so relative to the stock price. If you express in person.

C

A

So it's kind of the same.

C

Yeah exactly so, it's actually very cheap to access dividend. That's the offensive! That's uh that's! The idea right.

A

Right, I think the thing is that we wanted to really incentivize people to, like you know, vote locking is um a kind of major part of um safety of the governance system, but not so many people would want to lock without any incentives, so fee distribution is one of the incentives here and you know, locking tokens is quite a commitment, because you cannot really sell quickly and that's. I guess one of the reasons why uh apy is so high.

D

And and sorry, a couple of other points like what's the most liquid uh place in terms of a pool for the actual crp token, and are there incentives to provide mobility for that pool?.

A

Yeah so uh well right now, it's uh probably the most liquids are centralized exchanges, but we have a governance proposal which will be implemented hopefully soon to incentivize on chain liquidity for crv and then then I guess it will be more liquid than it is on chain, but yeah right now, it's uh right now. It's uh I guess on binance, let's see um if um well, if we go to, I don't know, um coin gecko. Let me probably share a screen again right uh now, because the disabled sharing the screen. Okay, whatever.

A

uh If we, if, if I go to uh coin I gecko- I see I can do it again, yeah um I think coin gecko should have all the yeah. uh I guess, if you look by plus minus two percent depth, I don't know, let's see minus two percent right. um Oh that's what it orders by. I guess!

A

No, not by that okay, then the most liquid would be by nance, and then you know hit btc whatever whatever and I think um like for like minus two percent depth, the first decentralized one which comes up is uh sushi. Swap um I don't know for some reason. uh Uni swap is like less liquid for that. For some reason and yeah so and we and yeah there is money money swap somewhere.

D

A

We basically wanted to incentivize liquidity in one of those, most probably uni, swap um and uh um yeah. That would probably get liquidity up to uh on chain liquidity up to like being on par with. uh I will like finance, for example,.

D

Right I mean again, this is just my personal opinion, but I think with auctions v2 coming out. You know there would probably be a preference for on-chain liquidity, because that then easily works.

A

With liquidation.

D

Most definitely.

A

Most definitely so well, as I said, we have well, I guess when you want, if you want to process like liquidations, for example, it's better probably to split between multiple um between multiple sources of liquidity, because, like it's, it's actually not bad. I guess um but like when we incentivize, then probably uh it makes more sense to uh to just um to just uh go with the one which is incentivized, which has higher liquidity.

A

Yeah, but that's kind of that's coming back, that's the first one. uh Basically, we have two like major uh crv related proposals. First, one is for fee distribution, which is like almost uh well it's implemented almost deployed and for the second one is for incentivizing on-chain liquidity, which will probably be helpful.

B

Michael, are you guys uh so would having curve or one of the pools in maker help you guys in any way uh for for what you're building towards the future? It's something completely independent.

A

um Oh sorry, is it again.

B

So we're having leverage on on on either crv or one of the liquidity uh pools. Would that help you guys with whatever you're building towards the future or is it more leverage.

A

Yeah, of course, like that's, uh that's always helpful by.

D

A

When you go with uh uh well, if what you probably figured with stablecoin collateral, you can get actually very high leverage and you can apply that to cool tokens as well.

C

Right, I mean yeah right, it's actually really uh very useful for curve to um to to to actually have leverage uh using using maker. So obviously I mean pools and crv over there will be uh would be very useful.

A

Yeah yeah, oh also for uh for maker, do you I think it doesn't really matter if uh the liquidity in um the if crv liquidity is versus eth, or you necessarily need uh it's, it's fair to die.

A

Like I think you you eventually get to, you eventually get to die anyway, right.

B

So so, if you you mean sorry, I don't think I got the question. Can you.

A

Yeah, like uh what kind of market do you own chain markets, do you need for crv? uh Is it um like? Is it okay to have it like uh east market, or you like, really like uh dye markets,.

D

uh It's a great question, but I I think it's pretty indifferent right, like as long as there's some curvy liquid pool- and I think that's probably more ideal for, for you guys or even the liquidity provider.

D

um The arbitrage bot could theoretically work its way to get back to data right.

A

Yeah yeah, of course, of course, okay um yeah. um I.

C

A

I guess like pools, which exist with curved ease liquids, yeah they're, probably fine,.

B

I wanted to show you something actually michael, but we released not long ago a collateral framework um when we.

B

Okay, let me know if you can see.

A

B

You have uni swap.

A

Liquidity tokens here- that's cool.

B

So these are these, are these are tokens that were proposed by the community members uh and then this? This is the the green light score. So the the maker token holders vote if it's yellow. It means that it's ongoing. So that's just like the average uh number, so it shouldn't be taken into consideration and there's the and then they're the different teams working on different uh factors that are going to have an impact on this.

B

So you have the governance team, the risk team, smart contracts, oracles uh well real world assets and governance again, and then there are like benefits and risks for each one of them right. So you you mentioned the impacts on peg and- and I think akash was touching a bit on the on the oracle.

B

Liquidity is also another big factor so once that, and this of course would happen less to to almost never with the with a stable coin, but with btc uh or any of their their wraps. It could happen that the collateralization ratio is too low, so we need to liquidate. In that case, we need yeah.

A

B

A

B

A

Right, so that's why you kind of want a good liquidity. Team uh yeah, makes sense.

D

A

Sense- and I think there is actually one other thing- I don't know if you, if you explore that, but in principle, if you have, if, instead of uh the token itself you use um you use, pull token. For this token, creating liquidity, for example, curve is uh pool talking right. There, then, I think it's kind of less volatile versus heath than curved token itself.

B

Yeah yeah, absolutely so that's one of the the risk team actually brought that out that the.

B

Would actually be less volatile than just pure.

A

Ethanol, this is just east, yes,.

B

A

Correct yeah, yeah yeah.

B

A

What I'm saying.

B

C

A

Curve usd would be um would be kind of not not bad at all in in that regard, yeah.

B

Any any other questions or comments or anything that you would like to to share with us. Maybe what what are you working on right now? What's what are your next steps.

A

Yeah sorry: what was it a question.

B

Like what? What is the curve working on? What? What are you doing.

A

Yeah yeah yeah right right, uh you mean in general.

B

A

Yeah uh yeah so uh well right now we want to like really about to to launch this feed distribution and um incentivizing on chain liquidity and also um one other thing which we wanted. um We actually.

A

We actually want to introduce um we we want uh pool, uh pool tokens to be used as collateral and different protocols. That's why I said we actually, uh we actually implemented the tokenized gauge or something which can use existing gauges. So that's great, um and we also want to um to create uh an ability to swap between um between cryptos, uh sorry yeah between cryptos and fiat, using like synthetics root.

A

That one is actually pretty interesting because it appears that, like current, like, for example, current pools on curve allow to exchange between bitcoin and usd because, like you could swap between btc and sbtc and then on synthetics, you can exchange sbtc to susd at oracle price, and then you can on curve again exchange susd to let's say usdc right and that's kind of something which, uh which is very convenient to wrap into um like into kind of one kind of thing and yeah. That's something we can try as well.

A

So it's kind of um maybe a little bit expensive gas-wise, but allows for quite good um whale exchanges.

E

And soon, when we add the eat pool which is should be audited by next week, then you can swap uh btc for eat or eat for stable coins.

B

I'm not sure how that works from the technical point of view. If it's not going to be in the same pool like how would that work? Is it similar to.

E

Unity, we basically because we on curve, we have principles, we have eat pools and to have stable compost. So uh the link between all of them is that um the pools contain sbtc seat and s usd. So what happens is we can um swap the um susd to uh sbtc on synthetics, and then um that way uh we can uh facilitate uh different kind of cryptoswaps without having uh those pools with those coins available.

B

Okay make sense you you're you're you're, basically using synthetics too.

E

Yeah yeah and a good thing is that it's very good for large trades because uh there's no slippage on synthetics and uh there was a demo that synthetics guys made, and it was, I think, for 500 btc. The difference between current uh best routing in one inch and the way through curve and synthetics was around 30 btc more using curve and synthetics. So that's not a trivial amount of money.

B

Okay makes sense now, maybe going back to the pool and a concept. That's not very clear to me. Sorry if it's uh too stupid, that's a question, but when, when I deposit uh one of the coins- and it gets well, I don't know if it gets traded or not, but the pools are. How are the pools kept into into a balance or there's no balance actually like? Do you guys kind of like rebalance the pools, or is it more like you just let people deposit and.

A

No, no, we don't.

B

A

Anything so all the deposits and withdrawals and trades they shift the prices, and we just inform people what, for example, they what what their deposit are. Deposits are price wise. That's why we show like bonus and slippage, because it's not only slippage, it also has the price effect and um yeah, and when you trade, you obviously know the price. But, uh like you, you basically shift the balance by by these actions, and you don't have to shift it back uh artificially uh or like rebalancing anything only like it's.

A

The free market, which rebalances everything to like the current um to to like the optimal state for the current market conditions.

B

Makes sense and.

A

B

There's the this curve or mathematical formula to actually make sure that, right that you don't empty. Okay,.

A

Yeah, it's it's actually can never go empty because their bonding curve goes up to infinity. Well, practically it can go empty. I think I think to to make to make an empty with us dollars. You need something like I don't know a hundred trillion dollars or something um so you uh yeah, but probably that transaction would fail, but uh yeah some.

E

A

Amounts of money I should say: oh, I hope they are impractical. Sorry, I have a couple of.

D

Questions just as a user like- and these might be dumb questions so sorry about that, but like what's the best way to figure out the price impact so with the unit swap it's fairly easy. Like x times y equals k, uh yeah yeah.

C

A

How do you estimate, like I.

D

Want to trade, a million right yeah.

A

The best way is to call the smart well, the thing is that the the curve which curve is using is not uh solvable, analytically and but it's uh solved by iterative solution which you can do in a smart contract. So we have uh methods which help calculate their price impact uh before like doing the trade.

A

uh So we have um like method to get uh to calculate the amount of tokens you are getting after the trade or you could uh calculate the amount of lp tokens you are getting after deposit or the amount of usd one of usd tokens which you can get if you withdraw.

D

And is that documentation clearly laid out somewhere.

A

Yeah yeah it actually is. We have a link to documentation on the website.

D

Sorry, another kind of question kind of related to this, because I'm more on the training side is like kind of using curve as a fair value price. Like what kind of data analytics platform would you recommend in terms of getting things like 24, 24-hour volume, to like wake things up.

A

Yeah yeah, basically, uh we have we. We have several things we have. We we record statistics ourselves as well as we use dune analytics and the graph, and I think angel would would be able to tell what's what's better, for which purpose.

E

Yeah, I think you want to use it for some analysis, yourselves or.

D

Yeah analysis historically, but even sometimes like just figuring out, what's the die, fair value right like curve, is the largest exchange, in my opinion, in terms of uh knowing, let's say, what's the usdc price right.

E

Yeah so now for that I think you can use june. But if you want to do some analysis yourself, you can use the graph we have um and will improve. We are improving that, so the graph team helps us but uh yeah. The graph for uh german analytics is uh best.

D

Yeah, the the problem with doing an island and sorry analytics is like it's it's hard to pull their data into like different applications right. So it's easy to view, but it's not necessarily easy to like use somewhere.

E

E

So yeah, then um the best is the graph, because you may think that we are not showing correct that or whatever we are showing but yeah. If you want to verify for yourself, we have now the graph where you can query.

D

E

And we have also um some uh python and javascript calculators for the price if you want to get price, but uh you don't want to do it on chain, you can just use the pull parameters and you can run some simulations if you want for uh pricing and property.

D

Oh nice, okay yeah, that will be.

E

We have them in the documentation.

D

B

Nice uh I got uh michael just posted a link on the on the chat.

A

B

A

It's not like useful for um for like getting a data from a script but kind of to see that if you just want to quickly see the fair price uh of something on curve, uh yeah um yeah, it's exciting.

D

A

The way interesting, some price action with dies happening looks like a little bit.

E

Yeah and also we have a depth chart there, which combines and that's interesting to see.

A

Oh yeah, by the way uh we do record state of every pool at every time, because it's not order books, it's not not a ton of data and this allows to to recover historical market depth at any point in the past. So if you, uh if, on that trade page, you click on any like point in the past, it should replot the market depth and at that point.

D

And sorry, what's what's the best way to communicate with you guys because, like when, I click the telegram link on your site, it doesn't go anywhere. Oh, is it like.

A

Or like somewhere else, no telegram should go to our telegram. Yeah.

E

A

Should work yeah interesting, like that? That's strange, it's our telegram group. So it's definitely working um yeah. It should work.

A

But of course you can. You know try.

E

E

I don't know, maybe telegram.

A

Is having some issues, because it's not loading properly for me just.

C

Telegram, and generally also, and also like the telegram group, is pretty uh pretty busy, I would say uh diplomatically speaking so, probably better to private yeah yeah.

A

Yeah you can use discord, but I'm it's actually much harder to get to me too, on discord than on telegram. Well,.

C

If you're going to pass yourself.

E

C

Basically, we can.

E

We can just uh we can set up a group with uh paper and curve perfect. We in telegram, I think, would be best choice.

A

A

Well, also, another question: do you have any plans to introduce like a euro stable coin? I think there there were some fans like that right.

B

We we had a, we have the the guys from eurostasis uh presenting their their currency not long ago, and I think it's going through the through the well to see if the community wanted.

C

I think did it pass the vote. I was actually. I think I bought on this one, but I don't remember.

B

I think it did um I I can't remember, but the.

C

Issue here the issue with the the the earth um I mean this one is liquidity-wise. Obviously it's a very.

B

C

Market, I think it's like 25 million or something less than that yeah.

B

Yeah, so that's, I think, that's their their main, uh their main barrier right now. But it's I don't know it's the chicken and egg problem right, the same thing with tbtc that because they're not many uses being.

E

We are adding uh curve pool uh of a curve euro pool, so maybe that will help.

B

Curb europa were in in curve yeah, and we.

A

Want to basically connect different euros between each other and um yeah it's, but we will see how it goes similarly to how we do with with us dollar stable coins.

B

How many euros are there out there.

A

Well, there is uh well at least 12. The ones I am aware of is um the stasis one urs, and there is also synthetics one, and there is also the waves hero.

E

A

E

Switzerland, euro.

A

Well, in switzerland, I I don't know if it's euro, it's just.

C

C

Yeah but yeah, obviously the euro market will be uh pretty huge for someone that I can actually uh pull the trigger on that one.

A

Yeah, I think I think the most interesting would be when one can connect to euro liquidity to to us dollar liquidity, because people from europe will be able to uh cheaply deposit and withdraw that. That would be cool.

C

Well, it's not actually about like just deposit and withdraws like really getting collateralized in euro, which I think for me. It's it's. I mean for most people. I know they they're pretty more they're, more confident by having their um they're saving collateralized in in in europe and the nearest donors. Yeah.

A

Yeah, that's that's coming right.

C

Yeah, I think that again it's something. It's probably like another discussion that we shouldn't have here, but I think that the european commission I mean europe- should central bank should really uh start digging inside that bit.

B

C

A

B

A

Well, hopefully, hopefully eu will not kill your stable point.

B

A

Because we always have libya right yeah because, like they, they are kind of not really great. On that.

B

Guy said that uh it's actually quite hard from a regulation point of view well in europe right.

A

Yeah well, and apart from that. uh Well, if you talk about trust talking, not the issue for for you guys, but uh there are negative interest rates too.

A

Like, if you, if you want, if you, if you have like real real euros, of course,.

C

Well, I think, like years were also like they were talking about in introducing uh negative interest, so all the banks worldwide, they will provide negative interest for free. I guess.

A

Yeah, I think that's.

C

That's the future.

A

C

uh But yeah coming back and uh if I can have uh uh coming back on a curve and why, I think it's also really good for uh for dye and bringing dye to the maintaining dye to the peg is like I mean on curve. You have like a lot of um a lot of volume, and um I mean it depends on days but uh can be like between 100 and 300 million volume per day, and so the the the the fees from the trading, the trading fees are pretty pretty high in curve.

C

So a lot of people actually deposit inside those pools. So I think those pools inside uh maker or even like curve tokens that where they can actually brawl against uh and then leverage the position and then put back in like getting to die and then put back die inside curve. That would be very useful. I think for.

A

Bus project yeah.

A

And also that also that, actually I don't know if you, um if you looked at um you, know haka finance the black hole swap thing.

E

A

uh So, apparently, you reach about the same effect. If you put lp tokens as collateral, although it will eat less gas, so you could put lp token as collateral. um You know borrow against that put on curve, put more lp tokens collateral and so on.

A

So you can build up this leveraged farming, hopefully earning more than otherwise and um and yeah um uh you kind of where you you kind of do this leveraged uh um liquidity so well, although this liquidity will will indeed show up as liquidity, uh so it will uh be shown in huge liquidity on curve. But it's it's actually essentially the same, because you uh you use um borrowing to to enhance your your reserves.

B

Sounds good, I want to be conscious of your time guys. So um I don't know if anyone has any parting questions or you guys would like to say something before. What's.

C

It's locked down here, so I've got plenty of time myself. So I'm fine for staying very long where.

B

C

Located well, I'm actually in france right now, but I'm normally based in the uk. It's.

A

Not not better, neither.

C

A

Yeah, how is it going between france and the uk these days.

C

I think it's, um I think it's all eu eu, like they're getting inside that second wave. So uh I see we're all in the same uh some boat, but they they're announcing, like some new uh distraction, restriction and probably like a complete lockdown in in uh in france and and a few different eu countries as well.

C

But anyway, guys yeah, um do you guys not don't have any more questions for us.

B

I think so far so good uh yeah.

D

B

D

Thanks a lot for.

C

Your time, so what will be the the the next step uh in order to move forward? That would be like a vote, and or should we do any other course or any uh presentation or like write any proposal or like describe a little bit better the uh why we think there will be a mutual interest between maker and and curve to to have that partnerships.

B

So we we we might require, I mean not required, but maybe another call will be interesting, but uh right now, there's well first there's this poll in which the community actually say yeah. That would be actually quite interesting.

B

So I think that what you can do there is maybe be a little bit active on the on the forums well on the maker forum for any curve related topic after, if you are there I'll try to tag you every time, something like that comes up.

A

Yeah yeah, I think uh I think I was chiming in on uh make a forum when it was yeah. What was that I.

C

A

I think it was about yeah. I think it was about um this crv. No, no, no, no proposal but wait.

D

A

It was before curve token, it was.

D

Yeah you, you were chiming in about this kind of large uh liquidity provision for guys trading above the pad.

A

Yeah yeah, I think I think there are quite interesting ways. One could do for stabilization yeah for stability price stabilization module, yeah yeah. I I still think that in principle, that's actually not a bad idea at all to to have some uh some sort of price stabilization module. um I just had some ideas, but how to do it on curve, and I pretty much described it in those those posts so um yeah.

B

E

By the way, uh can we have a another? Do we have another uh proposal for uh the pool tokens? I think that will be very interesting where how do we do it on the own maker's side? uh What's.

B

The process, the the it's it's relatively simple, it's uh you can use any of the of the template. It's just like what is it why it would be beneficial who's, the team behind it and there's different things to consider, and then yes, as I was explaining before there's the voting part in which the community says we are really interested in having this and then there's, usually the three domain teams that uh need to to give the okay one of them is smart contracts, saying like okay, this this, uh the smart contract behind, is actually solid.

B

um Then the other one is oracle. Saying: okay, we understand the oracle feed and it's it's a it's a liquid asset, as we were discussing earlier and the last one is risk, so risk parameters. um So again, as we were discussing with michael earlier, an east dipole, for example, would be less volatile than pure. If maybe the curved token could have a higher risk so that that's usually what determines the qualitization ratio.

E

The bitcoin pools.

D

That you have right, like some bitcoin version to another bitcoin version to.

C

D

Are the most interesting because the liquidity provider tokens I'm assuming that are produced when you add liquidity to those things? If you put that into the maker protocol and meant to die, then whoever's minting that die would definitely sell that die to buy more um bitcoin, whatever bitcoin.

D

So in that particular case, it's more interesting. I think, because it's uh it's definitely selling pressure on that.

E

Do you think uh that the ram btc and w cpu, or the one that includes sb c2, is better or the one that includes all bitcoins on ethereum, along with tbtc, which one do you think is uh most appropriate.

D

That's a good question. I think uh it's a better question for the wrist team, but like obviously, ideally eventually all of those uh things might be added as as individual collaterals and then obviously the pool of that should be a collateral too right, but.

E

I think probably the highest liquidity would be the best.

D

Yeah exactly that kind of makes sense.

B

I can pass the question to to pretty much uh angel if you want from from the risk team.

B

So if you guys discuss any any questions.

B

And then yeah, if I think that, if you I mean if the the contracts are written uh in in a cleaner way and they're documented and well, your your smart contracts are quite battle tested, so that would that would help for, for anything that has to do with review, uh but yeah those things usually help to to onboard collaterals right like right now. Our main issue is the is the bandwidth that the different domain teams have and that's what uh keeping us from from onboarding uh collaterals that the community wants.

E

So basically, we have uh one two um audits from travel bits. We then audited the new pools with quan stamp. Now we are having an audit with chain security and we have uh a lot of tests. So I think that yeah and because the curve contracts are written in viper, it's very, very clean and very easy to understand. I think that on that side it will be very easy to assess.

B

Yeah totally, I I personally think that it would be a good addition, so yeah.

B

All right, any any other comments. Guy any other questions.

C

What's the uh what's, what do you um what's the um the agenda like in terms of how long do you think will take like what's the time frame.

B

So right now I was just checking the the community greenlight poll, I'm going to throw in the link here.

B

So that's that's the actually the voting proposal, so it ends in, I think four days, yeah four days and 20 hours, and so that would be the the step number one right. So if the community green lights, that means that the maker holders are saying we would. We would like to have curve um as a collateral type.

C

And then it really.

B

Depends on did you pause to think yeah? ah Sorry, I put it to the yeah. I sent it in private. There.

C

Should be the link.

B

B

So that that will be the that's the community green light poll and and once that gets approved. As I was saying, it really depends on the on the bandwidth from the from the different domain teams and if you guys, are opening the in the forum and and can help with different, uh like by providing different uh documents and and different answers. I think that helps a lot to to get things ready as soon as possible.

C

Yeah 100 sure would be uh would be there.

B

And again you guys don't need to be all of you, but if one of you is like kind of answering and I'm being reactive to the to the domain teams, that would be they'll be quite useful. I think.

C

Okay and how much is the participation needed there? Oh yeah, I could say yes, uh 22, okay,.

B

Okay, uh yes, so.

B

Yeah, so right now it's uh the no is is winning.

B

uh If you, if you see it in the in the very bottom, you have the the vote. Breakdown.

C

Yeah, because it's only three percent participation and 31 voters: okay, yeah.

B

C

B

A whale could come in tomorrow and just sway. The whole thing, and usually that happens.

C

Yeah I was, I was going to make uh yeah or a flash loan, but it's probably not a good job, but yeah.

B

Not today, I guess yeah too soon,.

C

Well, you can, you can leave it for now, like just just make it uh just fix it after this poll, please.

B

No and the and again this is just for the the curved token right, so maybe the the liquidity pose would be more interesting and and something that's not very clear to me um it's, how are the like any any type of the of the fees? How are they distributed? Is it the price that changes so just by by having that it's a way of of getting.

E

B

E

The vcrv fees or.

B

So I mean, if I, if I let's say we- let's say one of the pools is uh one of the liquidity tokens of one of the pools is uh accepted as collateral. Then why would I use this token instead of using? If, like, would I get? I I'm obviously getting all the the the benefits right, so the I forgot the name now.

E

uh Yeah, so you can, you can get the crv from the tokenized gauge. You can get poofies too, while.

B

I think we kind of lost you there.

E

B

E

I mean you first you get crv and then you also get uh poofies.

B

Yeah, so if that's in a vault like maybe there's something more from the technical point of view, if the protocol would get that or or actually the the vault holder would get that, so that's probably something to to resolve, I'm not sure how that would work.

E

Yeah, I need to need to explain better on the technical side. Yes, yes, good point, yeah.

B

And then I don't know I I can imagine someone like I don't know, maybe uh yearn or I don't know any of this. uh I don't know what to call them arbitrage platforms but designing a new strategy that includes the the cr or one of your liquidity tokens, and then I don't know cycles it through maker to get die and leverage that I don't know. That would be one of the use cases too right. So.

E

Yeah yeah, they can very easily do that. Actually, that's uh that's the idea. You know that you can leverage um a lot and that will also uh in uh its own, enable uh that's basically making uh black hole swapped on curve, but um in a different way, so that will enable a very, very uh deep curve, liquidity.

B

uh Sounds good, um okay, cool! So, if you I'm going to, I think I need to edit the video a little bit because the interruption we had in the in the middle, um but I'm going to upload this on youtube. So the community can can see it and if you guys can reach out on the on the forum and and and have more participation that usually helps with the with the process right.

E

All right, yeah we'll make sure to participate more.

B

Cool anything else that you would like to.

B

C

B

C

So far, so good, uh just one more thing when we add uh add information on the page, is there any group, maybe like this code, but we can also answer questions from uh from the token holders.

B

We we use the chat.maker.

C

B

That's the rocket chat. That's here yeah, I don't know if you guys want to get yet another.

E

B

B

I'm not sure if there's a a maker telegram group there's one, but it's not. It's not very used.

E

No okay, okay, so we have to get the okay. The chat.

B

uh And yeah, if you, if you, if you reach out to me in there, I can make the introductions to the to the wrist team, so they can suggest uh potential or what's better for from a risk point of view to to make sure that the process goal goes in a smooth way.

E

All right, yeah.

B

Awesome! Okay, guys, so thank you very much and we'll keep in touch.

C

Thank you thank.

B

E

C

E

E