MakerDAO Delegate Office Hours, 9 Sep 2022

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From YouTube: Delegate Office Hours | JokeDAO & CoinBase USDC Proposal

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0:40 JokeDAO
6:45 Coinbase USDC Proposal

The Delegate Office Hours call is hosted by the Governance Communications Core Unit in collaboration with Recognized Delegates of MakerDAO.

The call aims to bring together all delegates and discuss recent events, governance activity, and other domains relative to governance and delegation.

https://forum.makerdao.com/t/delegate-office-hours-10-includes-poll-for-discussion-topic/17743

https://forum.makerdao.com/t/using-jokedao-for-soft-consensus-in-governance/17673

https://forum.makerdao.com/t/mip81-coinbase-usdc-institutional-rewards/17703

A

Foreign well good day, everyone. This is Thomas flitter with govcoms. This is delegate office hour for Thursday, and uh we appreciate everybody joining us here today and we've got a few items that I want to cover before we open the floor to the delegates. uh First, one I think Artemis is uh posted in the chat for the information he's looking for for the survey there Communications update.

A

uh Let's see also um I wanted to ask uh Raphael. Did you have any updates that you uh wanted to provide um for the group on your your con? uh Your information that you were seeking as well. Did you take a minute just to update us on that.

B

I'm not sure I, know what you mean. I I can give an update um about the prior prioritization right.

A

Yes, that's that's. The one I was referring to Raphael.

B

A

B

um So I think Tim was gracious enough to introduce me to David Phelps who's, the CEO of joke doll and, together with joke doll, we are looking to launch a tool where we drop um 100 tokens to every address that holds mkr, and these tokens Can then be used in a three-day submission window to submit a proposal like what's the top priority for, for this particular nkr holding address for um for make a dial and then in a one-day voting period. These priorities can then be voted.

B

We hope that this is like a kv5 version to to unearth some some more preferences than um we did with the Google sheet, and um there is a forum entry where you can read all about it and I'm gonna share the link um ASAP in the chat and then uh yeah please pitch in. um Let us know if you have any comments. Any changes that you'd like to see before this goes live and um or select.

C

From especially.

B

Everybody here I would like really ask if that's something that you feel can generate some value. Please support it. I know there's a lot going on in the Tao at the moment, but I think this is just like a fun light experience that could still yield a lot of value and um I hope we can get some traction here.

B

So um if you could take like five minutes or 10 minutes out of your busy schedule, then give it a reads: let us know what we can do better, uh how to make that the best version it can be and and participate and promote as much as you can. Thank you. Thank you very much. All right.

D

A little bit more Shilling for this I mean like for the record, so the funny thing about joke Dao is the name I guess, but more importantly, is uh that that joke dad does two things right. It's kind of the sneaky governance tool which we're actually just starting with trying to use that for this priority framework to see what happens, it's also multi-chained. So it's really really cheap.

D

So um I've been doing some other design behind the scenes, work to talk to the Token drop folks, um we figured we would take a snapshot of maker holders from September 1st on the report and add half an mkr, um and we would airdrop to them. Obviously would include delegates. I think would be the only sort of manual addition um for this first experiment on trying to see if we can Surface some priorities in a more organic way.

D

um But there are a lot of other things you can do, which Odell doesn't just have to be this one single mode.

D

um You can I mean there's just the possibilities are endless, but the most fun part of joked out is actually doing the joke race, where literally you get the entire Community to use JoJo to prevent or to uh present a joke about their community and then on Friday there's a live Twitter spaces at noon, EST and it's just extraordinarily fun.

D

um So this is my sort of sneaky plan to not only give us an opportunity to try different governance tools and do different processes and kind of shake up some of these things that have been a little I'm sure people have accused of being stagnant or stale, but also, maybe, hopefully, one day play a joke race, because I think we've got some pretty funny folks here and so it'd be fun to see what happens so I'm showing and uh yeah I really look forward to people taking some time to them.

D

Give it a look. It's pretty lightweight, see what happens.

A

All right, thank you, Tim appreciate that that sounds good all right, any other. um Any other comments: uh Tim's Raphael's, okay, I.

D

Mean if anybody has like whatever chain they'd want us to do it on where we're gonna do it on play on people? Have certain EDM change? They like more than others, Joe tells multi-chain. So just give us a holler if I'd probably be putting that on. The forearm threat is most useful.

B

Okay, plus, this is not gonna cost a dollar and it's been like Tim and I are gonna pay like the the full cost, at least for the first round, and then the second one, and then, if there's some traction, we we can probably ask for an SPF or not depending if the cost is super low. At the moment on on polygons um yeah, we can definitely swing that and right now it's not gonna cost the tower anything and I.

B

Think like Tim mentioned it's like a fun way to to inject some some lightness and gamification in into the governance, space and um I'm, pretty excited about it. Actually, uh plus David is a super cool guy, I think he's up to come on in the delegate hour right like she, she could present that probably better than I could.

D

Yeah I think you know he wrote the post. We helped him with that. um You know. He's he's been a long time sort of maker observer I'm, not sure if he's an actual mkr holder or participant in the community, but he's would be happy to come to me.

A

Okay, great um just let us know how we want to coordinate that and we could get that going, really appreciate it and Raphael. Thank you for uh posting that uh Link in the chat as well. All right. uh Let's take a look at um what our let's move on to the uh discussion topic. We had uh poll uh this week and was uh put out a couple that day or two ago and the winning topic.

A

If you will, with uh five votes uh total uh we had, the winning topic was uh the uh coinbase usdc institutional rewards. A number of you uh responded to. That was the topic that we'd like to focus on today, uh in particular, I, think, Raphael and Frank. You guys were interested in having that as our lead topic. Other votes um included the in-game mips set and uh strategic finance's uh involvement with uh with letter, so I'll open the floor. If we want to start with this uh coinbase usdc topic again,.

A

um I'll I'll, let you guys uh start with this or if we want to go into another Direction, uh certainly uh up to you guys, uh Raphael did you or Frank want to start us off with this topic.

B

um Yeah I mean I I write the proposal and I. Think it's extremely interesting, of course, because like running some years is obviously better than earning no yield. I just want to see like some some inputs, especially on the on the risk side. Like the way I see it.

B

um Risk does increase, like I, think Sam hexanots suggested that actually doesn't change the risk from just holding usdc, but I mean my question: is this like right? Now we hold usdc right, so we have some counterpillaries recycling, obviously, and then we take the usdc, give it to an arranger. So suddenly we have USD series plus smart contract risk plus counter batteries through the Ranger, and then the ranger invested into coinbase.

B

So we have counter batteries from coinbase, edits and then coinbase invested into something which means there's an additional layer of risk from what coinbase does and I'm not sure how to quantify that I mean coinbase is obviously like as respectable as it gets into space, probably, um but just wanted to share some thoughts about about that risk profile.

E

Yeah, so maybe I can clarify this part and part of it. It's still a specifically I, wasn't in all the courses with coinbase a small market, and we ended up working on it, but there is less risk that what your things are still risk additional risk. So, as you pointed out, there is a risk of holding usdc and what we would love to do is to send those usdc to coinbase. Q study, which is one of the services of coinbase Q study, means that so the assets are kept in all name.

E

So it's not the it's not like. We are giving the asset to conveys and we have a claim on coinbase. They are just keeping it at on. Only the legal application will still have to be discussed and we are not giving it through an arranger. It would be just like mip65 or hdb. There will be one negative, DT enough fund, rtt I, don't know where it will be managed by corporate services and which is in the Constitution thing. While we should do whatever not whatever but uh kind of follows the direction of making no governance.

E

So the only additional risk you are taking, the others too one is- is coinbase. Q study super safe. What happens if conveys is defaulting?

E

It shouldn't work, it would work, but uh coinbase Q study is based, I think in Ireland uh I, don't I'm not sure they are seeing where it is, but it's an unregulated custodian, so no regulation, so you don't actually know what could happen.

E

It always depends on the bankruptcy laws, but it's not in the US, which will be better than in the US and the fact that you have a legal entity that should be able to get the usdc back because I've received in this legal entity. You have corporate services that are living the life in Cayman if those doesn't trigger the pull the cash from from the custody to a wallet that could be a problem, and maybe it will be possible to automate everything at the Smart contract level. uh I'm not 100 sure on that.

E

But that would be awesome because then it means that whatever happened with the offline.tt, we don't care too much because most of the stuff is a country, but we still have the custodian problem. So it's a it's a risk. It's a big amount. I guess can be discussed, but it's not it's a bit. It's significantly more risky I think that q, students, that would be a bank or something Ultra regulated. It's not GP Morgan for sure, but we will have a for a multilis uh and by giver, but yeah.

F

uh Can you can you repeat that last part, my curiosity is whether this is more risky or less risky than the monotalis like nip65 or any of the other upcoming like waste that we can get into treasuries.

E

Now so it's it's more risky than just holding the usdc in the PSM.

E

It's it's less risky on the investment side than maybe 65, because there is no duration risk, no credit risk, no, no risk on this side, uh but I think it's a bit more risky because on monetaries you have a GP Morgan and Bong Signum as custodian, which are GP morganis, but both are super regulated and on this one you have a coinbase custody which is uh I assume not regulated as not 100 Years of operation. Like me, like a GP Morgan.

F

Got it? Thank you.

G

F

H

G

Why did they want to hold it if it's, if it's not going to be lent out, why? Why did they want to hold it.

E

um So unfortunately, I will never say why, because I are quite clear: it's just a reward, nothing to anything. They are earning on the other side, but you can check in the S4 from a circle that circle is giving some have new share to conveys part of the center joint venture, which is issuing uh uscc, so circular is issuing usdc and I assume they will not tell it publicly I guess anyway, that's so usdc that are sitting on coinbase balance sheet and the USC data on custody at conveys.

E

As always part of the there is a robin share. We don't know how much maybe it's they get. 75 percent 100 50 of what the circle is earning on those assets.

I

Hey, uh can you hear me? Oh no,.

A

Yeah you good Frank go ahead.

I

uh Sebastian I'm not sure if I understood you, but you said that the usdc and the PSM is less riskier or more riskier.

E

I

E

Risk here in the PSM en.

D

Because I trust.

E

I

Because I yesterday, at the center of huge Eli Cohen, uh you actually spoke about how rwa or cash like rwa, so it's they're going to be branded now they're, actually more resilient against being sanctioned right, because it's a trust- and this is more than likely going to be a UK Irish trust. Since it's uh because you know you said it's similar to Mid 65, so yeah I would think it'd be easier to sanction the usdc and the PSM versus this one.

I

So it'd be interesting to hear you know some legal um yeah, some legal uh yeah I mean you have to go, see what Eli Cohen said and I kind of agree with him man, because you know for my talks with Matt of success. Capital. The trust structure is a really hardcore structure that a lot of folks do- and you know this Sebastian- that a lot of entities use to protect assets and it's not easy to take money away from a trust, especially even like an individual's trust.

I

Right like I, have a family member that works with individuals, trust um man, you can't break that thing down at all, but anyway, so yeah, it's interesting! So I was hoping on this call. We would hear more from um you know the legal side of things, but I don't think we have anyone right from the legal side anymore, so but yeah cool. Thank you.

A

Foreign, thank you, Sebastian yeah. Does anyone else have any uh questions or comments on this? I know that uh in the chat we had something from code night uh saying something that's effectively, so this is affecting the revenue share from circle. With a major usdc holder, uh Tim, replied.

D

A

The framing uh Floors open, if anybody has any more uh thoughts or questions or comments.

D

I'll be the wet blanket.

A

Does anybody want to.

D

Unpack the theory about why we treat usdc like as a protocol controlled thing, I mean it's. What backs die now.

D

In a ps7 specifically sorry.

B

Can you repeat that I didn't uh acoustically understand one I think the main the main ask.

F

I think it was about rehypothecating the usdc, since it's not like uh is that right.

D

No, it's about moving it at all. Right users have put usdc into men, die against. Why do we assume that we can do anything with it right, I'm, sort of treating this half philosophically, but more just kind of trying to steal me on the understanding of.

G

Well, from a practical matter, it's it's um I mean the idea. Is that you're swapping right? It's not a deposit. Nobody ever says that it's depositing to to borrow die against usdc.

G

um If it was loaning then die against usdc, then I guess potentially maker could be exposed to some other regulations about co-mingling of assets and stuff, but um I I think um uh I think it's probably I mean. Has anyone ever said that it ever described it as as um as borrowing I mean I I would say it should come down to what our Communications have been to users.

F

Yeah I mean also there's well, there's also the other thing of like uh having dies, backing be like high integrity, and so, if you're taking the stuff, that's backing die one for one right: it's not over collateralized, it's like equally collateralized, then um then yeah you're, risking basically the collateral. That's backing some die. So if you lose on that, you got to cover it with Surplus buffer, somehow so so, really like it's existential risk equals like, however, much exposure over the Surplus buffer like and it becomes existential.

B

Yeah, but that that doesn't really change with the current proposal right. We just shift some of that risk from from the holding it in the PSM, so holding it in a custodian and obviously it is enters. The custodian risk that that's the best Sebastian yeah talked about, but but apart from that, we're not really changing the risk profile like I mean that that's kind of my question is like: are we changing the risk profile significantly or or not? It.

F

Depends on how much we we uh give to you as it's a quite uh it's a circle. I mean right because either way this is the hypothetication. uh You know you're, taking something on your balance sheet, that others should have an ability to swap into and and you're making it unavailable so that you know our organization can make the revenue off of it.

F

So I, don't know, I I, think uh it's okay, but it has to be risk, adjusted and I think that our Surplus buffer uh prevents us from doing really big deals like this. In my opinion,.

A

All right, Raphael, you got your hand race go ahead. Cold night was first, oh good night, okay, I.

H

I just wanted to comment if this is indeed like Circle, just sharing Revenue with us, isn't that, like the opposite, every hypothecation like because it's three hypothecation when Circle does their uh you know, buys treasuries and issues usdc, but we're actually like reducing at least circles risk right because we're having this usdc and a trust structure instead of like using it to buy even more treasuries with it. So it seems like the opposite for your hypothecation. If it's way it's, it's actually like reducing the leverage on usdc.

F

Yeah, but it's increasing our own exposure, so in that sense it's the downside of rehab I, don't know actually I'll I'll pause and let here listen to others.

B

Yeah I'm not sure, like I, think this is a really interesting point, but but I think like first of all, we're not changing out of usdc right. It's just uscc. That's then held by coinbase, so it's still uscc. So all the cycle exposure stays the same.

B

At least that's how I understand it and I mean I'm, happy I'm, sorry to be corrected here, but the way I understood it and also after Sebastian's explanation is that we keep the usdc. So all these exposure stays the same but holding it inside of coinbase.

B

We get to share a little bit of circus, Revenue right or maybe even a substantial part of it. But um what I wanted to to look like? Also as far as I've understood it it's pretty liquid like we can, we can withdraw it from there at any point like uh what's the what's the time frame here, I think as far as I understood from The Proposal, that's like pretty instant with drawer right.

E

Tons of proposal it says six minutes, but the question is a wood gives the orders and if you need a trustee to give their lot to coinbase, you need a governance decision and welcome to make it out if it takes everything takes one week. If a facilitator make it, you don't.

C

Yeah, so that's the point. I put my hand up to make. There is like yes technically for Circle to process it. It's probably going to take six minutes, but for maker governance to actually get that instruction to Circle. Presumably via you know, a governance vote and then an executive I. Don't that the mips slightly lacking in that regard, for how that communication happens from maker to coinbase and so actually having that defined somewhere would be really helpful and before we put this to a boot.

A

All right all right, thank you, Patrick for that information, uh appreciate it I. Think uh Josh, you got your hand raised. Go ahead, please yeah.

J

Just to follow on what Patrick was saying, um I think it would be really cool if we had some special process to pull the usdc back into the PSM like at a moment's notice. So like we wouldn't have to wait on uh governance to yeah, something like a um an I I. uh What's it called again IAM um so so we could um so we can move the money back and forth between the PSM and coinbase uh really fast. Instead of waiting for governance, that that would be a nice thing to add to the MIP.

C

So from from Maker's side um that would be fully dependent on coinbase integrating such a system because we can build Iams, we can build, you know modules, so we could. We could deposit slowly over a period of time, and we could also get it to read the amount of usdc currently in the PSM so that we could then withdraw from coinbase to prevent it falling below a certain amount.

C

You know that would be another way to do it, um but the problem is actually getting coinbase to agree to using that system and that's going to be the problem. um So I don't know if anyone from maybe stratvia is is discussed that process with um coinbase EB but um yeah. It's going to be difficult for us to enforce that unless it's specified in the myth.

A

All right, thank you. uh Let me get some folks from strap strategic Finance here they wanna yeah.

K

We've already talked to coinbase about fully automating it and they're on board with doing that. So um it's just you know a matter of um time really we wanted to get this first MIP roves and then work on automating. Once we have an Alm structure in place, because that's really the only thing that's gonna need to be done to automate. It.

A

All right, thank you, Mark, for those comments appreciate that um just kind of looking through the chat, uh but we there was a comment uh just made here says: do we have a hundred percent understanding that the yield from the coinbase deposit would be a revenue share with circle coinbase of their main strategy of generating yield?

A

um That was brought up a question. I, don't know if I wanted to follow up on that one. Oh, that's all in the chat. Oh actually, thanks uh Sebastian, you followed up I didn't know if you wanted to say anything about that. Yeah.

E

I just want to note that corned beef said in the form that it's not linked whatsoever with the possible yields. I get from a circle.

E

uh We can make speculation, but uh they said it's not linked, so they can give us whatever they want and Commercial you want, and if they are making investment on their side, it shouldn't be a problem.

E

It shouldn't be a problem as long as usdc we are there, it's still interested and they are not using those usdc to generate.

E

Just like we could have a DSi at six percent, even if we are not generating six percent on die on the SSI.

I

And can anybody speculate where the yield is coming from um trading fees, Maybe.

B

But does it really matter I mean that that's kind of their business in a way as long as as like as the usdc's in our custody, and we could use on that. Then I think it's really their business. How they generate to you right well,.

I

It matters uh if you look at three arrows capital and Celsius I would say hell yeah. It matters. In my opinion,.

E

But it doesn't because even if they are giving us zero percent, if they are Reckless on the other side of the business uh they can, as they can still go wrong. Even if you don't get anything so we still have a concern about our classic can be on the outside of the business, but it's a perfect company, so we can follow the final shelves.

I

Yeah, that's what I meant like has any. You know any of your team members dug into the to the shareholder Financial uh reports that the 10K 10 Cube, sorry.

E

I

E

Published something for mip65 because we are going through a current base as well. It was less uh a deep analysis because we are still using current base only for swap a week shortly from maybe 65. Maybe we should do a more detail analysis just to the questions on the source of Shield.

E

If you go on the S3 of a circle, which is a visual app here, as you see, you can see somewhere in the document that usdc is subject to revenue share agreement as part of the partnership with conveys, so that can give you an idea of maybe where the yield is coming from and why is conveys as intra in some interest to do this operation.

E

But again it's a new speculation.

A

All right uh well, thank you for that is.

A

Does anyone have any additional comments on this topic? It's just good conversation, good conversation.

I

Yeah, it's definitely like more to unpack here right, so I'm, looking forward to uh more details down the road and it'd be nice to get some kind of legal, um not only just view an opinion, but also kind of like, what's the downside, uh especially being in a trust right. um So because you know, if you look at like some of the sanctions against some of the Russian oligarchs, some of those dudes that live in the UK they're, you know living it up over there.

I

Some of the stuff was sanctioned from them, their Yachts et cetera, but those trusts that held the yah to weren't under their names right. So I would imagine that this trust and mid-65 Trust won't be under maker, thou right, the correct Sebastian, and then you sanctioned maker thou as an entity and I'm just speculating here. I just don't see how a trust that's named. Abc Trust uh is correlated to Makers out, but you know again, I, don't know anything about trust as much as someone else.

E

As we are publishing our document publicly, uh let's say we end up on the officialist I mean everyone will see clearly that those Trust of Slash Foundation, uh even if you are not the beneficiary, for instance, for map 65, it's written the maker token or loss as a beneficiary so make a dial- is kind of the beneficiary. So if make it up within on the fact list.

E

Obviously this is a direct, not assets, but asset like of Mecca, so it will be sanctioned and for the other one it I guess could be almost the same thing. It's obvious because we are super transparent in what we are doing and obviously users are not in the US. So you cannot uh block something that easily I guess, but uh even if you just look at Tony lukash the guys it was arrested, wasn't in the list, he wasn't in the US, but he was arrested so.

I

Yeah and I'm not trying to compare the Ukraine Russian war to make her Tao but uh yeah. So looking forward to the experts uh to kind of give us an opinion thanks.

A

All right, thank you, so I've, just from one I'm understanding of this conversation, uh we have uh follow-up or discussion as some think of it, we're trying to understand the risk and the legal aspects, and um is that so just ask you know from from that perspective: does anybody have any thoughts or ideas on those next steps? Perhaps.

J

F

That's cool um I think it would be important, like I, really love what govalpha does with a lot of proposal summaries where they um just bullet point out, like the the main points, uh I'm, not saying that exactly for the coinbase proposal, but I would love to see like um like a shared list of pros and cons that, like maybe multiple delegates can add onto uh because, ultimately you know you guys are trying to come to a decision of should we do this or not um and and I think to come to that decision.

F

um All of the pros and cons got to be in like one like referenceable Place, something that I struggle with at maker and also as the facilitator of the communications team here is kind of, like you know, issue um synopsis. You know like uh pros and cons like we get so much in these conversations, but it's not written out anywhere like in this, like one concrete place so yeah, that's something! That's on my mind.

A

Thank you, David.

A

Follow up to that.

A

I think we got a couple of I, think Patrick said: agree. David I, think that would be helpful um Patrick any other thoughts on that.

C

Not really I mean the the good battle for summaries tend to focus on process more than anything, because we have a neutrality mandate, so we can't necessarily come in and say this proposal is a bad idea because of X, because that would be not neutral.

C

um So we could. We can comment on governance processes and we can comment on issues such as we discussed with the kind of timing of getting a uh an instruction from governance to coinbase, because that's a governance process, but you know we can't really comment on the risk of a proposal or anything like that. So someone who's, not gabelfa making a similar kind of summary I think is a good idea.

A

All right, thank you, Patrick, for that.

I

Yeah I think it also would be good right, because I think the community is going to be kind of uh you, I mean you've already seen it right. Some folks are against it. They don't understand it and some might get an idea of what it's going to be, but they exactly don't know what it's going to be. So there's a lot of noise going on there.

I

So what David said a bullet point where you kind of give the pros and the cons would definitely would be helpful and even though I don't think it's going to sell the opponents of rwas or Cache like rwas, but at least yeah that'd be super cool. If we can somehow get that done,.

A

All right, thank you. Frank I appreciate it Rafael you just raised your hand, uh you got the floor, go ahead.

B

uh Thanks um I I just saw that that David Phelps joined from from job class so like. If it's okay for everybody, could we give him just five minutes to walk us through uh joke dial and what's possible there because um yeah we have the the good luck to happen on the call.

L

A

B

L

Just decide that after five minutes, that's.

A

Great uh welcome David. uh You have the floor. Go ahead. Oh.

L

My goodness, thank you thank you so much um so so RAF just be be before I uh start speeling away. um Are there specific things, that's helpful for me to talk about, because I know. You've already spoken a little bit about about some of the ideas we have.

B

Yeah, basically, Tim and I just have been chilling the process and um your proposal you put forward, and so maybe you can give us some background about, like what jokes are, what what kind of governance scenarios that enables and why we should do that. You know like it was a little pitch there. Yeah.

L

That sounds that sounds good, so uh I would also just say: please cut me off or jump in. If you have questions I, don't want to say anything, that's too obvious. um So really the way we conceive of governance is trying to unlock Community Voices um to have more participation uh within the governance process themselves.

L

A lot of times when we hear about issues of governance, the focus is on the voting and the voting mechanisms and we're really focused on is um the speaking part and the ability of communities to have their own voices heard, um and so the way we set it up is it's very simple: there's a submissions period um where, if you set up a what we call a contest with a prompt for example, what do you think our priorities should be in this community?

L

Anyone from your community can uh then respond with proposals uh in response, and so they can and they can write a proposal saying you know. We think that the top thing we should be worried about is real world assets right and someone else could say you know deep pegging is another is what we want it to be, and so you can have everyone thinking you write in what they see is their top, as their top, uh let's say, concerns issues, priorities and then the other nice thing is in the voting period.

L

um You can allocate voting tokens, however, you want to your community uh and then they can vote, and so you actually get a list of uh that's prioritized according to how much people prefer certain options as well right. So instead of the traditional yes, no voting where only the core team is going to the community and thank you yes or no, and then everyone might feel compelled to vote one way or another. This way, there's no negative voting you're, not voting against anything you're.

L

Just voting for the things that you care about most and that way, you're actually getting a prioritized list of what's most important to you, um and so what what we discussed in the proposal for maker Dow is using this for building soft consensus so step one would be doing a content.

L

That's like the one I just mentioned, where you could go to the community and say what are your top priorities and you get very kind of like rough pulse check right to see where people are landing, what they really feel um it's helpful, almost as like a user survey, then let's say so: let's say like they say: real world assets is like our top. Our top thing that we care about most right, um you're also surfacing data about who cares about that? How much they care about it?

L

What percentage of votes they put towards it, where the alignment is between different people as well, and so there's a lot of data that you can get for your community as well, where maybe, if you look at the number 10 option, which very few people care about, you can say: okay, but the people who cared about this put all their tokens towards it. Maybe they should form a subgroup and try to really focus on this because they're very passionate about this as well.

L

So for a second contest, you could then say real world assets is our top one we're now accepting proposals for what you want us to do with real world assets right um and then you can get a little bit more formal. So you can now have your communities. You know write in proposals saying we really want to focus on the housing market or we really want to focus on the rainforest.

L

uh You know whatever, whatever it is and they can- and you can ask for you know to say we want you to write up answering these four questions.

L

You know in these three pieces as well and what's nice about this- is that traditionally, proposals are always written by the builders themselves, saying here's the project I want to do what you're getting in this case is the community being able to say the projects they want to see, even though they're not necessarily the builders themselves, and so that just expands the surface area of ideas uh of what's out there while getting a better.

L

You know uh pulse check on what the committee wants, but for Builders it's also really nice, because they can actually see what the community wants and they know what is most likely to get passed and then, in the final contest, what you could do is you could say: okay, we have a proposal now, um what do you guys think of it, and then people can ask actually submit different versions of it, and so you know something we've seen in maker, for example, we've seen in all those is a lot of times.

L

Proposals get shot down because people have different reasons for disliking it. They might like it overall in terms of the principle, but they might not like the budget. They might not like the team, they might not like the timeline, and so these different cohorts of no votes tend to group together and shoot down proposals that might have been popular and so by using it.

L

In this way you can actually have people say: yeah, look I like the proposal overall, but I've changed the budget or I've liked the proposal overall, but I've changed the timeline and then build consensus around the best version of The Proposal to go through so that you're much more likely to actually build consensus within the community and because people have really you know, joined together around the best version of of The Proposal as well. So those are kind of the three use cases that we see for Dow, governance um and yeah I.

L

Think you know the proposal that we put forward was why don't we start with the pulse track? It's the one, that's lowest Stakes, it's the most fun and we and maybe it'll, be useful data. But we can play with it and see if that's helpful, just to get a sense from from Community what they're! What they're? Looking for.

B

L

B

Just like wanna add all of the process is different from what we can do in the Forum, because, like these tokens are involved- and it's it's um even though the tokens are worthless, it's still another Act of commitment, that's necessary than just writing in the Forum, so I think it's a different Dynamic, it's a little bit more gamified, um so I think yeah. It's just a really an experiment that I'd love to see run and that I'm I'm really curious and excited about.

L

Yeah I didn't I didn't hit on those two points. One is that it is on chain so because you'll have a voting token that you share with your community. You can do it on any L2, you want, so you could do it in optimism. You can do it in polygon. Voting is extremely cheap fractions of the Cent, and so it really enables everyone to participate in voting on chain and the benefits of on chain are that you have all that data.

L

Everything I talked about before, like that now is there it's immutable, and so, if you want to find alignments between your community, how they're voting all of those things you can create Dune, dashboards and break that down.

L

um The other thing is the gamification, and so that's the fun piece of this is like we are trying to make governance a lot more fun. So it's not a pain to go and have to vote against the options that your friends put forward, but instead, when you basically have these two variables of how many tokens do you have and how much longer do you have to vote?

L

um You have a lot of strategy decisions you have to make of like do. I put my votes towards that thing. That I, don't think anyone else is going to support um and do I put all my tokens towards that, because I want to like raise it to the top and signal to others to support it as well, or do I start working with other people to try to build consensus so that it's I'm most likely to have mine go through and it creates relationships and teams out of this gamification as well.

B

Great thank you David So, like um if anybody has any more questions than please go ahead and ask them, and otherwise, like I'd love to.

L

See your comments in.

B

A

Thank you. David appreciate that and uh Raphael.

L

A

uh Is there of the Florida any questions or comments on David's uh Raphael's.

A

All right, well, David, listen! Thank you! So much and I think we'll have some follow-up conversations certainly uh appreciate you joining us uh here today. Any other any reporting, thoughts for you, David I, just I'm.

L

Gonna drop my telegram.

A

L

The general group, and if anyone wants to reach out to me privately or has any questions, please feel free.

A

All right again, thank you appreciate that, thanks.

L

A

Right foreign, we are, we've got about uh 10 minutes left in our uh meeting here. I didn't know if we'll open the floor back up to the discussion topic with usdc, that, if there's any more follow-up that we wanted to touch on this or any other topic that uh folks wanted to discuss.

M

Thomas I had a question and it's really just uh it's a thought, question and I don't have an answer to it. I'd love to hear some feedback from the delegates on it has nothing to do really with what we talked about today. Sure Robert go ahead as we go forward.

M

In the End Game Plan rune's got some very specific ideas, and so what I've read so far is that um there's an effort on his behalf to pull back in VM care of that he's delegated and it. It seems just a little strange and odd to me because as a core unit trying to figure out my next steps in the context of the end game, I also look at our community and I.

M

Look at um the DBC, the delegates and other entities and actors and I really try to understand like the overall Dynamics and and if effectively, there's this back and forth of the delegates being stripped of their powers.

M

What exactly are the purpose of the delegates?

M

I mean if you're, if you're asked to vote a specific way? That's not delegation, and do you see a point in time where that changes or because I don't.

J

Think brune's going.

M

To give you his mkr, so I don't know fundamentally I'm just struggling with that one, because it's like right now we have one person that is in charge and it's important that we all take a look at what the preferences are to understand the directions now.

M

I could make the case that that gives us a heck of a lot more clarity um than what we've had and I'm I'm supportive of that, but it doesn't really it doesn't it's not true to the essence, I think of what is trying to be created in the Dao, so I don't know just throwing that out there. If anyone has any comments, I'm sort of struggling with that myself all.

A

Right. Thank you. Robert I'll open the floor to comments.

D

Yeah I can add two pieces there, so I think Monet Supply had a pretty good reply to um incentivized vote plans. I guess and I really thought that I articulated the options for roon, who is our biggest delegator I'll. Definitely take a side note to say there is still quite a bit of mkr that has not been delegated, so it's kind of on delegates to sort of figure out how to get that out there um and then.

D

The second thing is, um you know we had the entire month for RFC on the end game, nipset and so I am going to spin up a weekly art, crafty sort of committee, I guess so that we can hopefully provide feedback like that um because it definitely currently seems like it puts governance into pretty interesting Quagmire, um and it would be good to put a bunch of brains towards a better solution. So.

A

All right, thank you, Tim appreciate those comments. Anyone else like to add to that all right to Robert's.

D

B

um I think Robert you're there's a really good point that there's like no minimum time on delegation and that kind of like in a way even compromises or makes uh makes like delegates up. I, don't know compromises delegates um to some extent I mean I'm. Just thinking about.

B

If you think about proxy voting in traditional companies, then it's much of the same like if somebody doesn't like a proxy and the way they vote, they just choose another one right, so I'm, not sure I think I think in a way it boils down to to just staying, principled to some extent and then also being of service to the one that delegates to you, I think it's it's like. How do you understand uh being a delegator but but I think it's a very interesting discussion and um it's a really good point.

B

You're making so I don't really have a tight answer. There I'm just thinking that I personally love to see something on the amount of Delegation time, because that would just unstress the whole thing and um I think would lead to much more risk-taking, which I think is something. That's that's definitely a good thing.

I

Just to follow up on that there's I think Tim said you know over 800 000 mkr out there. That's not voting right. So I mean what can you expect from the guy that if the guy wants to send his mkr to the boss proxy good for him, you know like he has a right to do whatever he wants with his mkr.

I

If I was in his shoes, honestly I would just vote myself, I wouldn't even delegate, but that's just me because I like making my own decisions and I'm I'm, pretty much like in in this ecosystem, pretty much every day right, I have nothing better else to do. Unfortunately, but you know so I don't know I mean: can we wake up Paradigm? Can we wake up? You know dragonfly? Can we wake up uh a16z to delegate more I?

I

Don't I, don't know I mean they tried at least 816 he's trying I just I, don't know like I I, don't know like I have friends that have mkr, they don't delicate to me. They don't even want to leave coinbase or cracking so I. Don't know what to tell you it's just it's just you know it's yeah, it's it's one, one individual who you know supported the delegate introduction by gov Alpha.

I

He tried with the hope that others will follow. Then there would be a lot of delegating from the big whales and some of the ogs who have a bunch of mkr were gonna. You know either become delegates or delegate, but there's just no incentive there right. So nobody gives a damn right.

L

Like I can't motivate.

I

My friend to move the mkr out of a coinbase, because what what for like the ux alone is crappy, so why not just stay at coinbase and like have the same experience as opposed to delegating getting nothing for it, so I I, just don't know. How do you resolve this? How can you resolve this?

I

It's it's one individual who has the right, I I am Mio or whatever his name is said it best like he's a whale he can do whatever the hell he wants and if he wants to undelete for every single one of us, then he should I I. Don't think there should be any reason why he should stop.

K

Yeah I think we're having like kind of separate conversations one's like about. You know: Rune stack and his delegate preferences and voting preferences. The other, uh which I think is a more uh interesting one to me is how do we get? You know the other nrk makerheads not regularly voting to vote. One thing that you know is nice about uh the coinbase deal. Is you know the closer we work with them? I think the more we can start to you know invest in you know, projects to essentially build out delegate infrastructure on their platform.

K

So I'd love to have you know coinbase. You know build uh and integration. You know so they're people that own maker don't want to move off the exchange. Can you know, delegate through coinbase and then coinbase is kind of handling?

K

You know the delegation in the back end, you know so it's and I'm sure, like you know that could be a business for them in the future, whereas, like you know to start I'm sure, they'd offer it for free, but you know I think that's one way is getting these exchanges that have you know a good amount of maker to you know enable their users to do it and have like a you know, campaign that you know make a good fund to.

K

You know advertise that for everyone that owns tokens like in their coinbase accounts or their binance accounts, for example, because there are just a lot of small holders, I think they're just afraid to move their coins off the exchange because they don't trust themselves.

A

All right, thank you. Yeah.

H

A

H

It's simple: you just.

H

Keep for saying um staking or putting money in your maker in the governance contract, and then everyone one track in or coinbase or whatever would either sell their maker or they get it in the contract like Anthony, is in it and I think costs us nothing to do right. It doesn't cost the makers holders anything as long as they have in the contract. The people who don't just get diluted out until they're Baker's, worthless foreign.

A

Thank you all for those comments. Raphael. You got your hand right here. I'm gonna go to you last because I know we need to wrap up here. We get a the GNR call coming up so Raphael.

B

Go ahead um about these 800k of uh uh potential delegation uh available I think that that number is not correct. um It's actually lower I, don't know how much exactly, but we looked at uh NPR holding addresses that are not exchanges and that even half gas like East in there to be able to to affect delegation.

E

B

Then the whole number is the last um lower I think, like maybe half, maybe even less, um we're still figuring out the exact number. It's obviously um some parameters that go in there, but it's definitely not 800k.

A

All right: well, this really uh has some great comments and feedback really appreciate Robert. Thank you for bringing us up. Unfortunately, we are at time uh for today. I know that we want to continue this conversation, but uh I think some of this may move over to the GNR call as well for our discussion topic. I do want to thank everyone for joining us here today, with all your great comments and feedback uh again, this recording should be up tomorrow for your viewing and I want to.

A

Thank you all uh I hope you have a great rest of your day and hope to see you soon. Thank you so much.