►
From YouTube: Focus On #05 | Centrifuge Team - AMA
Description
Focus On is a MakerDAO original series, where we talk with stakeholders about their progress and deep dive into the details.
This call coveredhow the Centrifuge team utilizes Tinlake to tokenize RWA (real-world assets) and NFTs (non-fungible tokens) of various types, why on-chain securitization matters, and the most recent legal structure update, with an open Q&A format.
Lucas @spin (Co-founder)
Martin @martin (Co-founder)
Eli @elidco (General Counsel)
Jeannice @roollie (Partner and Portfolio Lead)
A
All
right
well
happy
wednesday,
everyone
and
thank
you
for
joining
the
fifth
episode
of
focus
on
I'm
retro,
a
contributor
with
the
sustainable
ecosystem
scaling
core
unit
and
I'm
co-hosting.
Today's
call
with
scss
facilitator
juan.
Today
we
are
joined
by
the
centrifuge
team
for
an
open,
ama
discussion.
A
As
usual,
please
drop
any
questions
you
have
into
the
chat
bar
and
our
guest
will
answer
questions
during
a
break
in
the
action
or
at
the
end
of
the
prepared
presentation
during
the
q,
a
and
now
I'd
like
to
welcome
lucas
and
martin
co-founders
of
centrifuge
and
their
team
members
eli,
who
serves
as
general
counsel
and
janiece,
centrifuge's,
partner
and
portfolio,
lead
to
today's
discussion
so
team.
The
floor
is
yours.
B
B
Oh
okay,
I'll
kick
things
off
and
and
maybe
do
an
intro
and
then
have
all
of
the
folks
around
to
do
an
intro.
My
name
is
janiece.
I
am
partner
portfolio
lee
like
retro
had
mentioned,
and
I
worked
with
the
asset
originators
on
the
centrifuge
protocol,
as
well
as
some
of
the
institutional
investors
as
well.
C
C
Prior
to
this,
I
was
at
block
one
in
hong
kong
developing
the
bullish
exchange,
which
is
a
centralized
exchange.
So
I've
got
a
bunch
of
regular
regulatory
experience
in
the
crypto
space.
Before
that
I
was
sort
of
in
traditional
finance,
doing
a
lot
of
work
in
the
bond
markets
and
structured
finance.
D
So
sorry,
we
need
to
sort
out
the
audio
yeah,
martin
co-founder.
So
just
you
know,
of
course
help
that
keeping
up
the
project
and
focusing
more,
we
call
it
product
market
fit
so
we're
putting
all
these
different
little
things
together,
like
legal
structure,
features,
etc.
That
are
just
you
know,
works
in
a
decentralized
fashion
and.
E
Hey
there
colin
cunningham
I've
been
a
team
here
almost
a
year
now
the
title's
head
of
bd,
but
my
experience
is
working
at
fintech
and
building
go
to
market
strategies
for
various
technology
companies
that
I've
worked
out
over
the
past
10
years,
but
here
at
centrifuge
working
a
lot
with
all
the
people.
You
just
met
and
really
thinking
about
how
we
build
a
balanced
platform,
as
we
think
about
all
the
different
partners
and
groups
that
we
work
with.
F
B
Yeah
so
I'm
very
happy
to
see
a
lot
of
familiar
faces
and
also
new
faces
today.
The
way
we'll
do
this
is
in
an
open
q,
a
format
right,
so
you
can
obviously
still
put
your
questions
in
the
chat
but
feel
free
to
stop
us
at
any
one
point:
you
know
if
you're
going
to
lose
your
thought,
just
don't
hold
your
your
tongue
and
just
ask
the
question
I'll
start
with
this
first
pick,
you
know
here
we
were
at
east
denver
with
in
the
winter
proof
event
right.
I
think
luca.
B
You
guys
were
talking
about
that
before
without
pro
luca
michael's
in
the
the
middle,
and
then
we
have
a
few
other
folks
from
from
resource
intel
and
so
on.
But
that
was
a
great
event.
I
was
very
sorry
to
have
missed
it,
but
yeah
it
just
you
know,
goes
to
show
the
close
partnership
that
that
maker
and
centrifuge
has
had
for
a
while.
B
So
let
me
just
sort
of
start
with
the
101
on
centrifuge,
because
I'm
aware
that,
while
many
of
the
folks
on
the
call
know
what
we
do,
many
also
don't
so
just
to
re-sort
of
set
and
make
sure
that
we
start
from
the
same
page.
So
we
are
a
decentralized
finance
asset
finance
platform
we
just
broke.
I
think
the
70
million
tbl
total
assets
finance
currently
today
with,
I
think
new
server
contributing
the
the
additional
2
million
to
bring
us
over
that
that
bit,
which
is
nice.
B
And
if
you
go
to
our
ui
right
now,
tin
lake
dot,
centrifuge
dot
io,
you
will
be
able
to
see
the
polls
that
we
have
live
you'll,
be
able
to
see
the
nft
step
back.
The
pools
and
yeah
feel
free
to
explore,
and
now
I
will
throw
the
floor
over
to
lucas
who
will
take
us
through
the
next
few
slides
on
our
vision
and
then
eli
will
do
the
last
bit
on
legal
structure.
F
Yeah,
I
think
I
mean
maker,
is
maybe
probably
considered
one
of
the
founding
fathers
of
d5.
I
would
say
I
mean
when,
when
we
were
talking
about
stable
coins
like
the
word,
d5
didn't
even
exist,
yet
there's
no,
no
ecosystem,
so
to
speak
of
and
and
a
lot
of
it
was
around.
The
idea
of
okay
well,
actually
like
blockchains
ethereum
gives
us
the
power
to
build
a
better
financial
system
right
and,
and
if
you
think
about
finance
it,
it
rules
everything
around
us
right
like
we
have.
F
We've
we've
seen
all
what
what
happens
when
it
goes
wrong,
but
we
also
know
just
how
big
of
a
part
of
of
our
lives
it
is
and
and
in
a
lot
of
ways
I
think
century
fusion
maker
were
both
strongly
have
strong
like
a
strong
mission
in
addressing
this
right.
I
think
one
of
the
big,
like
surprising
numbers
to
me,
was
when
we
recently
found
the
statistic
that
it's
estimated,
that
about
nine
percent
of
the
global
gdp
goes
to
financial
intermediaries.
F
Those
are
banks,
credit
funds,
service
providers,
stock
exchanges,
credit
rating
agencies,
like
all
of
this
stuff,
right
that,
in
the
end,
it
ends
up
in
a
system
that
we,
I
think
most
people,
don't
necessarily
think
are-
are
really
valuable
to
to
what
we
want
right,
which
is
a
fair
financial
system
that
gives
everybody
the
opportunity
to
build
stuff
to
to
like
get
a
car
loan
to
get
is
get
student
loans
to
to
build,
invest
in
real
estate
to
earn
yield
right.
All
these
things
were
like
now
in
today's
world.
F
What
centrifuge
wants
to
do
is
we
want
to
build
better
ways
for
users
to
access
this
bank
and
to
borrow
money
from
that
bank
right
so
moving
on
to
to
like
how
and
maybe
like
d5
really
is
the
missing
link
here
right,
like
d5
has
like
this
brings
transparency
and
openness
at
the
core
and
that
drives
drives.
I
think
much
of
of
the
of
these
core
values
that
we
have
into
can
bring
them
into
reality.
F
How
how
it
works,
like
the
simplest
description
of
what
centrifuge
does,
is
we're
basically
building
all
of
these
nest.
Building
blocks
in
in
code
is,
instead
of
like
using
relying
on
like
off-chain
structures,
using
sort
of
building
a
credit
fund
that
exists
and
as
much
as
possible
on
chain
and
pairing
that,
with
the
legal
structure
that
gives
the
the
recourse
the
way
for
for
people
that
interact
with
that
code
to
know
that
it's
backed
by
something
real
that
they
will
get
their
money
back.
C
Thanks
thanks
lucas,
so
yeah
that
what
what
we
are
looking
at
is
is
sort
of
a
formalization
of
some
of
the
structures
in
the
pools
that
we've
been
using.
So
what
we
would
like
to
do
when
we've
been
working
with
christian.
The
next
slide
here
is,
is
actually
christian's
work
product.
So
I
will
not
take
credit
for
it,
but
it's
a
very
good
summary
of
the
structure
that
we
want
to
do
for
the
pools
going
forward
and
here
we're
doing
a
number
of
changes.
C
A
number
of
steps
in
order
to
protect
the
maker
community
in
order
to
protect
the
investors
generally
in
order
to
create
a
more
formal
and
and
traditional
structure
into
the
pools
and
there'll
be
a
number
of
different
steps.
I'll
sort
of
go
through
those.
But
you
can
see
here
in
the
schematic
that
the
the
flows
and
how
the
flows
will
work
going
forward.
So
we'll
have
the
eligible
assets
going
into
the
spv
which,
as
we
do
today,
but
we're
going
to
create
a
separate,
what's
called
a
lock
box.
C
C
So
the
trustee
is
a
new
concept
that
we
haven't
used
before
in
the
pools,
and
the
trustee
will
be
interposed
in
order
to
make
sure
that
the
maker
community
and
the
investors
generally
have
a
way
to
enforce
their
interests
in
the
case
of
an
event
of
default
and
to
ensure
that
the
collateral
assets
held
at
the
spv
are
in
control
of
the
maker
community
and
the
investors
generally,
rather
than
the
issue
or
the
parent,
as
is
the
case
in
the
current
pools
so
th.
This
maybe
go
to
the
next
slide.
C
So
with
the
goals.
The
goals
here,
as
I
said,
there's
there's
sort
of
a
range
of
goals
that
we're
trying
to
to
interpose
to
improve
the
structure
of
the
pools.
The
lock
box
arrangement
is
one
step.
That's
the
arrangement
which
ensures
that
the
payments
are
ring
fence
so
that
they
aren't
don't
have
the
issue
or
doesn't
have
access
to
the
payments
once
they've
been
made,
and
so
that
they're
not
subject
to
the
risk
of
the
possible
insolvency
of
the
spv.
C
The
use
of
the
third
party
trustee
is
also
another
step
that
will
again,
as
I
said,
protect
the
interests
of
the
community
in
the
case
of
a
default
will
allow
for
an
entity
who
is
you
know
in
charge
of
the
assets
to
make
sure
that
the
the
real
world
assets
can
be
liquidated?
Can
any
of
the
proceeds
for
that
liquidation
can
be
then
distributed
to
the
token
holders
to
the
maker
community
to
the
investors
generally.
C
C
The
spv
without
the
inter
position
of
the
trustee
and
the
way
we're
intending
to
document
this,
although
the
documentation
is
still
in
draft
form,
is,
is
by
way
of
an
indenture.
So
an
indenture
is
a
type
of
agreement.
That's
generally
used
for
collateralized
obligations
in
the
traditional
markets,
and
what
we
are
using
it
here
for
is
to
make
sure
that
the
trustee
has
the
control
over
the
interests
that
the
sp
of
the
spv
and
the
assets
held
by
the
spv.
C
C
Most
of
those
trustees
exist
in
the
real
world
market,
but
aren't
very
familiar
with
d5,
so
there
will
be
some
discussions
and
and
some
probably
technology
developments
that
we'll
need
to
do
to
assist
the
trustees
to
in
fulfilling
their
role
and
making
them
comfortable
with
a
role
that
they're
not
very
familiar
with
today.
So
that's
kind
of
a
you
know
very
high
level
snapshot
of
what
we
want
to
do.
There's
a
number
of
different
steps
and
a
number
of
details
yet
to
be
worked
out.
C
You
know
specific
trustees
for
specific
deals,
but
what
we
want
to
do
is
we
want
to
have
a
framework
in
place
that
the
community
feels
comfortable
with
that
the
maker
community
feels
comfortable
with
that
the
real-world
asset
core
unit
feels
comfortable
with,
so
that
we
can
then
go
and
discuss
that
with
potential
issuers
and
potential
trustees,
so
that's
sort
of
where
we
are
today.
It's
still
a
work
in
progress,
much
work
still
to
be
done,
but
we
are.
G
E
D
Speaker,
I
can
take
the
first
question.
I
think
luca
you
put
it
on
on
select
how
open
is
centrifuge
to
work
with
stratify
originators,
etc.
I
think
you
can
can
read
the
question
yourself
so
100
open
and
that's
exactly
the
idea
you
know
like
like
maker
isn't
is
an
open
protocol.
Centrifuge
is
an
open
protocol,
so
basically
everyone
can
use
it
and
we
would
like
to
be
super
supportive
to
all
these
efforts.
So
we
think
you
know
that
all
these
originators
out
there
most
likely
if
they
are
experienced.
D
You
know
that
that's
what
we
are
looking
for.
You
know,
so
syntax
is
one
thing,
but
really
existing
parties
out
there
either
already
do
originations
do
fund
managements
et
cetera.
You
would
like
to
convince
them
using
the
infrastructure
we
are
building
to
make
it
even
more
transparent.
You
know
so
to
if
you
look
back
in
the
past.
I
think
there
is
two
things
we
would
like
to
achieve:
kind
of
automate.
D
Burke
intermediaries
do
now,
and,
secondly,
is
actually
make
that
transparent,
and
you
know
traceable
through
through
to
blockchains
with
the
true
protocol.
But
what
you
still
need
is
the
expertise
and
the
underlying
assets
and
someone
who's
able
actually
to
to
do
due
diligence
underwriting
et
cetera
and
let
those
different
parties
collaborate
using
the
infrastructure
with
the
idea
you
know
so,
the
experts
you
still
still
need
them
and
and
also,
I
think,
a
lot
of
the
traditional
structures
you
see
out
there.
You
need
them
as
well.
D
C
So
I'll
take
the
the
next
couple
questions
here.
So
the
the
maximum
question.
Sorry,
let
me
just
go
up
so
the
repayments
of
the
underlying
cloud,
so
the
repayments
of
the
underlying
collateral
would
go
from
the
to
the
spv
and
from
the
spv
to
the
lock
box.
So
that's
all
happening
off
chain
outside
the
chain.
C
There
will
then
be
a
transfer
mechanism
still
yet
to
be
worked
out
in
order
to
convert
the
cash
in
the
real
world
markets
and
the
at
the
fiat
cash
into
usdc
and
the
usdc
and
to
die
that
then,
would
be
distributable
to
the
token
holders.
So
the
the
lock
box
itself
is
not
a
non-chain
won't
have
any
on-chain
aspects
to
it.
The
lockbox
is
a
very
real-world
traditional
fiat
account
with
the
transfer
and
translation
mechanism
that
we
have
still
to
be
worked
out
depending
on
the
capabilities,
the
technology,
technological
capabilities
of
the
trustee.
C
So
that's
that's
sort
of
where
we
are
in
that
in
terms
of
opening
to
the
review
of
the
legal
documents.
Absolutely
without
any
doubt.
You
know.
I've
already
sent
a
draft
of
the
indenture
over
to
christian,
and
we
certainly
expect
that
outside
counsel
will
be
used.
We've
used
our
outside
counsel,
manat
to
help
develop
the
documents
and-
and
absolutely
we
expect
maker
to
have
their
outside
counsel.
C
Look
at
it
and
we're
happy
to
have
any
calls
to
discuss
with
them
ourselves
and
also
with
our
council
as
necessary
in
terms
of
the
davis
question
on
the
beneficiaries
of
the
trust.
The
token
holders
are
the
beneficiaries
of
the
trust,
so
the
indenture
is
worked
out
so
that
the
trustee
acts
on
behalf
of
the
token
holders.
Obviously
the
drop
and
the
tin
will
have
different
rights,
vis-a-vis
the
issuer,
but
the
trustee
itself
will
be
acting
on
behalf
of
all
the
token
holders.
That's
the
way
it
has
to
work.
C
C
Is
it
trade
receivables
we'll
have
to
do
it
probably
different
ways,
depending
on
the
types
of
assets
that
are
going
to
be
involved,
the
types
of
real
world
assets
involved
and
and
the
issuers
and
where
they're
located
and
what
currency
the
receivables
might
be
in
so
there'll
be
a
number
of
different
elements
to
that
which
we
can't
really
do
on
an
abstract
pro
forma
basis.
It'll
have
to
be
kind
of
deal
specific.
F
I
mean
maybe
the
the
the
things
I
think
like
6s
here
had
a
structure
that
is
interesting,
which
uses
a
a
red,
a
broker
dealer
that
has
instructions
to
convert
fiat
to
crypto
and
make
sure
it
ends
up
in
the
right
wallet.
There's
other
there's
other
things
that
that
harbor,
for
example,
actually
they're,
also
commenting
in
the
call
they've
been
working
on
like
an
automated
flow
from
fiat
to
usdc
to
dye
that
that
can
be
sort
of
controlled
and
insured
with
with
other
means.
F
D
And
I
think,
really
the
log
box.
The
main
purpose
is
really
that
a
third
party,
a
trustee
which
is
obliged
to
actually
follow
the
interest
of
the
token
holder,
so
the
investor
is
controlling
the
cash
flow
and
not
the
asset
originators
or
someone
who
is
close
to
the
assets,
as
has
control
over
the
cash
flow
anymore.
So
actually
no
funds
can
be
stolen,
can
be
used
for
different
purposes
etc.
C
So
I
think
the
next
question
from
cyril
is
yeah.
I
think
that's
that's
something
we
definitely
intend
to
work
on
going
forward,
but
we
want
to
make
sure
that
the
new
structure
is
is
fully
agreed
before
we
get
to
the
point
of
converting
existing
spv
structures.
We
want.
We
certainly
expect
and
intend
to
do
that,
but
I
think
that's
a
second
step.
C
We
need
to
finish
the
first
step
first
and
to
make
sure
that
the
maker
community
and
the
core
unit
is
happy
with
the
documentation
as
we
have
it
and
we
have
trustees
that
would
be
able
to
act
on
behalf
of
issuers.
So
we'll
have
a
couple
of
different
things
to
work
on
between
now
and
the
next
few
weeks,
but
we
do
expect
you
know
in
in
in
some
time
in
the
near
future
to
be
able
to
start
working
on
the
conversion
of
the
existing
spv
structures.
C
Well,
yeah,
the
kyc
is
an
is
an
interesting
point.
I
think
we
we
it's
something
that
we'll
have
to
discuss
with
the
trustees
the
potential
trustees
where
we
think
that
the
beneficiary
should
be
able
to
pass
through
the
kyc,
because
we
will
have
permission
them
with
our
kyc
in
advance
of
that
anyway,
and
that's
already
going
to
give
the
trustees,
we
think
probably
everything
they
need
now,
if
there's
a
gap
on
the
kyc
side
between
what
securitize
is
doing
for
us
now
and
what
the
trustees
think
they
might
need
in
the
future.
C
That's
something
we'll
have
to
address
we'll
have
to
maybe
work
with
securitize
to
you
know
to
develop
a
kyc
that
the
trustees
feel
comfortable
with,
but
but
it
is
an
absolutely
key
point.
We
have
to
make
sure
that
there's
an
alignment
for
the
kyc
processes
between
what
the
trustee
would
need
and
what
we
do
today
at
securitize.
I
I
So
you
know
part
of
what
we
were
trying
to
solve
was
that
in
in
the
previous
structure,
the
the
drop
tokens
were
never
actually
there.
There
was
a
subscription
agreement,
but
maker
never
signed
anything
because
maker
didn't
have
an
entity,
and
there
was
no
legal
entity
in
which
to
sign
so
part
of
trying
to
solve
for
some
somebody
or
something
having
rights
with
respect
to
the
drop
tokens,
in
addition
to
just
putting
them
in
the
vault,
and
you
know
you
unfortunately,
were
still
left
in
a
way
with
paper
documents.
C
I
Of
indifferent,
as
to
the
two
hold
be
the
signatory
to
the
the
subscription
agreement
for
the
drop
token,
at
which
point
I
think
it's
the
drop
token
that
entity,
then
that
would
arguably
be
subject
to
the
kyc,
so
the
trustee
would,
in
theory,
be
looking
to
that
cayman
island
entity.
Much
like
it
probably
did
in
the
success
case,
look
to
the
cayman,
charitable
trust
and
understand
who
is
or
what
is
at
the
cayman
island
entity.
So
I
think
that's
where
the
kyc
would
be
handled.
I
I
think
it's
a
good.
It's
a
good
question.
It
still
needs
to
be
tested.
I
mean
we've
only
tested
it
on
success
right
and
we,
but
it
that
that's
the
principle
that
there
is
a
legal
entity
in
the
cayman
islands
that
can
be
kyc,
because
that
legal
entity
will
have
directors-
and
you
know
like
in
the
cayman
foundation,
it
would
have
a
supervisor
which
equates
for
kyc
purposes
as
a
controlling
person.
C
In
case
of
an
event
of
default,
which
I
think
what
dave
was
referring
to
is
definitely
something
in
which
they're
going
to
look
at
the
beneficiaries
and
the
end
users
of
any
kind
of
cash
distribution
and
whether
that's
converted
into
die
and
distribute
the
token
holders.
I
think
they'll
still
need
to
make
sure
that
any
cash
is
not
flowing
to
sanctioned
individuals,
people
on
the
sdn
list
and
probably
other
other
purposes
as
well.
G
G
So,
first
of
all,
this
is
it's
great
having
these
type
of
presentations,
because
we
have
done
a
lot
of
work
on
maker
side
in
the
background
trying,
first
of
all
to
socialize
the
fact
that
we,
we
are
an
infinite
pool
of
liquidity
with
very,
very
low
cost
of
capital
I.e.
We
should
try
to
attract
great
sources
of
credit
rather
than
start
topping
type
of
equity
financing,
and
this
is
the
only
way
we
can
scale
protecting
the
currency.
G
And
the
second
point:
we've
been
trying
christmas
being
incredible
in
this
to
to
help
people
like
yourselves,
creating
a
structure
that
can
allow
us
to
scale
trust
in
the
model
and
not
just
hoping
that
there
is
something
behind
the
token
that
is
in
a
boat.
So
I
think
this
is.
There
is
a
lot
of
work
here,
even
if
the
maker
community
hasn't
seen
mix
approved-
and
I
know
that
maker
community
is
impatient
and
they're-
they
have
all
the
rights
to
do
so.
G
G
I
what?
What
is
that
the
question
is
then
another
question
is:
what
is
the
timing?
You
guys
think
will
be
needed
to
finalize
to
finalize
a
structure
that
can
be
usable
and
for
us
I
mean
I'm
not
giving
I'm
not
asking
for
weeks,
I'm
asking
for
quarters
so
that
the
community
can
have
an
expectation
about
when
we
can
start
on
boarding
through
your
rails.
C
It's
a
good
question
of
luca
and
again
yeah.
Thank
you
very
much.
I
I
should
have
probably
thanked
eric
and
christian
for
all
the
hard
work
that
they
did.
The
mipsix
methodology
that
they
prepared
and
posted
to
the
forum
was
instrumental
in
all
of
our
thinking
in
terms
of
getting
these
documentation
in
place,
they've
been
incredibly
helpful
and
we
wouldn't
yeah.
We
wouldn't
be
able
to
do
this
without
their
input
and
their
assistance.
I'm
sure
there'll
be
more
work.
C
Obviously
there
is
more
work
going
forward,
so
apologies
for
that
christian,
especially,
but
it's
a
it's
a
it.
There
will
be
quite
a
bit
of
work
still
to
do.
I
think
that
you
know
we've
we've
got
a
draft
of
the
indenture.
I
you
know.
Obviously
you
know
outside
counsel
needs
to
look
at
it.
It
needs
to
get
reviewed.
I
think
we
can
hopefully
have
that
finalized
in
the
next.
You
know
two
to
three
weeks
once
that's
done,
I
think
other
things
will
be
much
more
straightforward.
C
I
think
the
only
the
only
thing
that
we
would
are
the
only
thing
that
we
have
a
dependency
on
is
the
potential
trustees,
and
this
goes
to
a
question
from
carol.
We've
had
a
couple
of
calls
with
potential
trustees
with
the
traditional
kind
of
trust
banks
that
you
would
see
in
the
traditional
markets.
We
we
don't.
We
didn't
find
any.
C
You
know
any
red
flags
that
they
think
that
this
is
going
to
be
impossible,
but
it's
going
to
take
some
effort
to
educate
them
into
exactly
what
we're
doing
and
what
the
d5
world
looks
like
what
maker
is
like.
So
that
is
a
that
is
a
dependency
on
external
third
parties,
which
is
hard
to
predict
in
terms
of
timing.
B
B
One
question
in
the
forum
post
that
we
were
that
we
could
answer
here.
You
know
when
will
most
centrifuge
projects
apply?
It's
been
a
while.
I
think
I'm
going
to
sort
of
mips
and
happy
for
the
rest
of
the
team
to
share
as
well.
We
are
trying
to
be
really
cognizant
about
protecting
the
dao,
and
so
you
know
in
parallel
with
all
of
the
work
that
we're
doing.
I
think
with
the
timeline
that
that
I
had
mentioned,
as
well
as
ongoing
work
with
the
rwf
core
unit.
B
For
me,
it's
really
about
making
sure
that
the
dial
is
comfortable
with
the
legal
structure
and
the
protections
that
go
along
with
it,
and
then
you
know
we
will
we
have.
We
have
a
lot
of
asset
originators
that
are
very
impatient
that
are
raring
to
go.
So
there's
not
a
lack
of
pipeline
at
all.
It's
really
wanting
to
make
sure
that
we're
doing
things
the
right
way.
D
D
You
know
so
league
of
structures,
one
thing,
but
also
the
the
quality
of
assets
is
a
second
you
know
so,
and
that
is
exactly
this
kind
of
pools
actually
debating
to
be
to
be
on-boarded.
The
second
stage
of
I
would
say,
mostly
quality
assets,
you've
been
part
most
likely
have
a
few
accommodations
already,
it's
a
little
bit
too
early
to
talk
about
it
in
every
detail,
but
there
are
those
pools
cannot
just
scale
scale,
but
also
by
the
quality.
G
D
G
Again,
I
think
we
already
have
at
the
core
unit
level
and
wheels
core
unit
several
stations
with
very
high
quality.
Very
high
quality
potential
lenders
borrowers.
Sorry,
it
took
us
a
long
while
to
socialize
who
we
are
with
those
guys,
because
those
guys
that
were
thinking
about
defy
as
a
place
for
their
praise
legions
and
not
not
internalizing
them.
G
So
I
think
for
us,
the
structural
legal
rails
are
the
bottleneck
now,
so
we're
definitely
looking
forward
for
you
guys
and
others
to
figure
this
out
and
the
other
question
I
had
and
then
I
promise
I'll
leave
the
space
for
others
to
ask
questions.
Could
we
use,
for
example,
if
maker
wanted
to
on
board
as
collateral
treasury
assets
that
are
open
like
securities
that
are
traded
in
the
open
market?
G
D
Because,
maybe
you
would
like
to
answer
it
more
from
a
technical
perspective,
but
how
I
see
it?
It's
basically
an
index
token
on
an
underlying
collateral.
Here
you
basically
use
a
centrifuge
as
a
revolving
pool
to
on
and
off
work
those
assets,
like
you
know,
think
of
corporate
bonds
or
treasury
bonds
or
whatever
that
you
would
like
to
to
do
there
you
most
likely
you
know,
do
not
need
all
the
transition
you're
doing
right
now,
you're.
Actually
what
we
produce
is.
It
is
an
index
token
representing
the
underlying
asset.
It's
a
fluctuating
price.
D
You
know
what
whatever
the
bond
price
is
and
what
is
currently
in
the
portfolio
and
then
will
be
able
to
participate.
You
can
even
securitize
it
if
you
wish
you
know
so,
but
that
would
be
a
different
structure.
It's
most
likely,
not
a
fixed
income
portion
in
the
senior
structure
anymore,
it's
more
kind
of
a
split
of
a
waterfall
that
could
be
really
basically
just
you
know,
tin
token,
how
we
call
it
now,
which
is
basically
a
token
which
is
directly
representing
the
underlying
value.
F
Yeah,
I
don't
think
I
have
much
to
add
here.
Martin,
I
mean
the
the
the
thing
where
we're
we,
how
we
built
in
lake
and
sort
of
how
we
think
about
this
infrastructure
is
like
it
is
really
a
set
of
very
modular
smart
contracts
and
and
yeah,
like
the
the
two
tranches,
make
a
lot
of
sense
for
for,
like
that.
We're
like
an
issuer
where
we
want
to
have
an
issue
to
have
a
lot
of
equity,
meaning
like
they
take
the
first
loss
and
maker
is
super
senior.
H
C
Yeah,
I
think,
I
think,
frank,
that's
that's
right.
I
think
that
they,
you
know
ice
being.
A
regulated
exchange
is
only
going
to
be
able
to
offer
that
service
to
licensed
broker
dealers
and
they
won't
be
able
to
offer
directly
to
the
retail
markets,
so
what
we
would
be
doing
would
probably
not
be
directly
competing
with
them.
If
we
would
be
able
to
do
something
like
that,
the
you
know,
but
but
you're
right,
the
institutional
players,
they
certainly
will
be.
F
Tim
black
asked
the
question:
if
any
of
the
legal
improvements
plan
to
move
on
chain,
which
I
think
is
really
like,
our
philosophy
is
like
we
took
like
this
old
school
structure
of
like
a
credit
fund
and
try
to
figure
out
okay.
How
do
we
replace
it
with
smart
contracts?
I
mentioned
the
reality.
Is
there
it
will
without
major,
without
without
major
changes
in
in
laws
around
the
world
like
there
is.
F
I
think
that
a
trustee
would
directly
sign
a
transaction
in
metamask
or
something
similar
to
that
and
like
sign
something
like
that
on
chain
like
we're,
we're
still
a
bit
a
bit
far
away
from
today,
but
but
that
will
change
and,
of
course,
like
we're
sort
of
like
that.
What
will
this
this
will?
Look
like
in
the
future
is
that,
like
in
a
way
the
trustee
is
almost,
you
could
almost
think
of
it
as
an
oracle
provider.
F
All
of
that
can
sort
of
serve
as
a
space-based
infrastructure,
and
it's
really
the
vision
for
what
what
we
have
right,
because
if
we
just
take
like
a
boring
like
say,
bond
portfolio
that
exists
entirely
off
chain,
it's
great,
it
can
be
great
collateral
for
maker.
It
can
scale
really
well,
but
I
don't
think
that's
the
future
of
where
finance
should
go
right,
because
the
future
of
finances
is
france
or
the
future
of
finance
is
defy.
Which
is
is
that
that
you
have
this
transparency?
F
H
And
lucas
is:
is
there
any
with
regards
to
your
team
getting
involved
with
ave's
arc
and
the
news
that
ceba,
the
swiss
company
bank
is
getting
involved?
Is
there
anything
that
make
or
dao
as
a
community
can
do
to
use
something
a
tool
like,
and
I'm
just
thinking
out
loud
d3m
to
maybe
help
get
some
liquidity
there?
What
are
your
thoughts
with
your
partnership
with
avi
and
also
what
can
maker
now
do
to
help
scale
the
entire
ecosystem
of
rwas?
F
That
means
maker
can
reduce
supply,
supply
and
and
sort
of,
like
the
those
users
can
sort
of
provide
liquidity
to
these
assets.
Now,
when,
when
die,
demand
changes
for
example,
then
then
the
maker
can
go
in
and
actually
provide
more
liquidity
to
to
the
other
market
and
sort
of
in
this
way
like
it
creates
liquidity
for
where
there
isn't
today
right
and
it
allows
it
allows
basically
for
for
supply
to
be
supply,
demand
of
diet
to
be
more
actively
managed
or
not
more
actively
managed,
but
actually
for
it.
F
Just
to
to
balance
more
naturally-
and
I
think
that's
that's
like
really
really
cool
about
it
and
yeah.
I
think
it
will
also
require
a
bit
of
legal
work
to
figure
out
exactly
how
we
can
implement
d3m
with
the
trust
structure,
with
sort
of
the
the
legal
topics
we
discussed
here,
but
but
ultimately
like
that.
That,
I
think
will
work,
can
work
quite
well
as
a
step
for
for
maker.
I
And
lucas,
this
is
a
christian.
I
I
agree
with
the
questions,
particularly
from
tim,
about
how
we
can
bring
this
all
on
chain,
and
I
think
you
guys
have
have
taken
a
great
first
step.
You
know
the
picture
that
we
showed
on
slide.
Six
I'd
like
to
get
rid
of
it
eventually
and
have
as
much
of
as
much
as
possible
on
chain.
I
I
think
that
should
be
the
goal
and
you
guys
have
done
a
great
job
of
attacking
one,
and
you
know
I
know
when
I
first
raised
this
a
couple
months
ago.
I
said:
well,
you
know,
can
we
have?
Can
we
have
bank
accounts
be
governed
by
smart
contracts?
Because
then
you
know,
then
you
really
don't
need
you
know.
I
Can
you
have
a
us
dollar
denominated
account
governed
by
a
smart
contract
because
right
because
it's
it's
actually
just
digits
anyways
and
it's
not
like
there's
actual
dollar
bills
in
there
that
somebody
has
to
do
anything
with,
but
yeah
that
that
apparently
is
not
available
yet.
But
you
know
ultimately,
if
you
can
automate
as
much
of
the
process
as
possible,
I
think
that
would
be
the
goal
so
yeah
we'll
we'll
get
there.
It's
just
not
there.
Yet.
G
We
use
vision
and
the
vision
is
for
maker
to
become
the
super
senior
lender
of
last
resort
across
the
whole
defy
and
potentially
also
so
plugging
to
the
letting
other
people
other
protocols
doing
the
heavy
lifting
and
benefit
from
most
of
the
returns
to
being
junior
to
us
and
also
being
the
most
potential,
the
most
powerful
on-ramp
for
institutional
investors
like
if
you're,
an
institutional
investor
in
trade
buy.
Now
you
have
billions
of
dollars
of
long-dated
collateral.
G
Now
I
think
there
is
what
we
are
stressing
and
christian
is
stressing
it
more
than
us,
but
to
the
community.
It
is
that
to
do
that,
we
need
to
be.
We
need
to
be
safe
and
comfortable
that
the
quality
path
is
there.
That's
why
it
is
work
that
is
painful
of
legal
instruction.
It's
super
powerful
because
that,
as
you
know,
well
sometimes
behind
the
height
you
know
tokenization
assets.
There
are
no
real
real
rigor
rights
or
or
real
control
of
the
collateral.
We
need
to
make
sure
that
this
is
not.
G
This
is
not
happening,
but
I
think
so.
We
are
a
lot
of
work
in
educating
the
community
helping
people
like
you,
guys,
structure,
yourselves
and
bootstrapping
bootstrapping
with
some
other
country
parties,
but
we
will
get
there.
We
want
to
be
as
programmatic
as
possible
in
providing
liquidity
to
real-world
assets
and
other
g5
protocols,
but
being
super
senior
to
the
rest
and
just
having
quasi
zero
zero
returns,
but
expanding
the
expanding
the
the
footprint
of
the
die
in
a
sustainable
way.
F
E
E
I
It's
just
really
the
same
issues
we've
discussed
before
in.
In
terms
of
you
know
we
we
will
need
a
legal
entity
to
hold
the
to
sign
the
subscription
agreement
for
the
for
the
drop
token,
because
this
ban
and
the
index
you
know
that
can
have
contractual
rights
vis-a-vis
the
trustee,
and
I
think
that
was
one
of
the
fundamental.
I
think
issues
that
we
had
in
the
original
structure
is
that
there
was
nobody.
I
Tokens
were
deposited
in
the
vault,
which
was
great,
which
is
what
we
want,
but
there
was
kind
of
a
bifurcation
between
the
tokens
being
deposited
in
the
vault
and
then
there
being
a
subscription
agreement
that
sets
forth
terms
and
conditions
and
maker
didn't
have
any
ability
to
enforce
those
terms
and
conditions.
All
it
had
was
a
token
and
a
vault.
So
it's
really
just
trying
to
bridge
that
then.
I
I
think
the
intention,
at
least
with
respect
to
this
particular
case,
is
to
keep
the
cayman
island
entity
as
simple
as
possible,
because,
what's
what's
unique
about
the
centrifuge
cases,
centrifuge
case.
Excuse
me
is
that
they've
you've
actually
bifurcated
cash
flow
with
legal
rights
right.
You
you've
got
the
concept
of
the
token
that's
deposited
in
the
vault.
That
is
representing
the
drop,
yet
you
then
have
contractual
rights
that
are
needing
to
be
documented
on
a
piece
of
paper.
I
So
as
a
consequence,
you
you
need
to
have
that
real
world
entity
to
enforce
those
contractual
legal
rights.
They
may
be
limited
in
this
case
to
whatever
is
provided
in
the
indenture,
but
you
will
need
that
legal
entity
so,
but
the
cash
is
actually
then
going
through
the
10
like
protocol
right,
so
that,
when
I
say
cache,
I'm
collapsing
fiat
to
you
you
from
fiat
to
die
into
payment
into
the
maker
vault,
that's
all
being
done
separately.
I
So
you
don't
need
like
in
the
success
case
where
a
trustee
is
actually
holding
the
cache,
because
that
is
just
coming
out
of
the
lock
box
and
then
going
through
and
the
the
tin
lake
protocol
is
really
kind
of
functioning,
as
the
paying
agent
in
this
particular
case
is
how
I
is
kind
of
how
I
viewed
it.
The
trustee
initiates
the
dollar
payment
into
the
protocol
through
an
exchange
agent
and
then
once
die
goes
into
the
protocol.
It
gets
distributed
back
into
the
10,
like
protocol
gets
distributed
back
into
the
to
the
vault
yeah.
I
E
I
On
that,
no
we
haven't
got
well.
We
haven't
gotten
to
that
point
yet
and
it'll
depend
on
what
the
the
actual
indenture
says
and
and
eli
has
sent
it,
and
you
know
we'll
have
to
see
what
kind
of
voting
rights
and
what
decision
rights
the
drop
in
tin,
toker,
10
token
holders
have
and
then
work
our
way
back
up
through
the
chain.
I
B
A
No,
I
appreciate
the
discussion
from
both
centrifuge
and
the
community
on
the
call
here.
Just
as
a
quick
reminder,
like
you
said,
the
recording
of
this
call
will
be
made
available
on
the
initial
forum
post,
announcing
this
call
and
as
a
another
aside,
I'm
also
working
with
the
resource
protocol
to
get
the
recording
of
the
winter
proof
panel
that
was
held
over
east
denver
and
I'll
share
it
on
that
forum
post
as
well.
So
if
there
are
any
other
questions,
please
direct
them
to
there.
Otherwise
centrifuge,
if
you
have
any
other
closing
words
again.