MakerDAO Weekly Governance and Risk, 19 Mar 2020

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From YouTube: Governance and Risk Meeting: Ep. 80

Description

Please join us and help shape the future of the MakerDAO.

Agenda
- Intro with Rich Brown
- Flop Auction Presentation Including Visuals with Vamsi
- Auctions UI Walkthrough with Adrian Le bas
- USDC Risk General Discussion with Cyrus Younessi
- Discussion on Adding More Stablecoins to Spread Risk with LongForWisdom

Get Involved:
Website: https://makerdao.com
Forum: https://forum.makerdao.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/makerdao
Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/MakerDAO/
Chat: https://chat.makerdao.com
Email: info@makerdao.com
[Calendar](https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=makerdao.com_3efhm2ghipksegl009ktniomdk@group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/Los_Angeles)

A

Hello: everyone welcome to the Thursday that March, the 19th edition of the scientific governance and risk meeting we've been having calls daily since Monday today is our regularly scheduled call, but we're going to continue the same style of.

B

Agenda we've been having.

A

During this disaster response, oh, is that too strong for work, our aggressive attention, we're paying to governance and monetary quality in the last couple days or a few days. Let me talk a bit about the agenda. We have set up if there's there's a lot of individual things to talk about today, as opposed to these longer threads or longer presentations that we've had in the past time. So it might, the agenda is subject to change.

A

We might have to bump or possibly go along, but here's the idea long for wisdom has suggestions for topics that we've been. We've got a couple um yesterday. Actually we should probably dig into those very soon. One of these is near dear to my heart and maybe enormous ly happy to see that long brought this up and the topic is: how do we manage public relations as a community and anybody who's watching?

A

My spicy Twitter feed today will understand that's a situation that we need to address as a group actually I'm not going to get into it. I was going to speak to fight, but this, but I don't want it like steal his talking points. So I'll leave that there we need to consider we mean we should consider the possibility of onboarding additional stable points to spread out any risks that might have been introduced by us, DC and I.

A

Believe the community has pointed out one or two of those already Cyrus are going to talk about additional types of u.s. DC collateral, pools that we can. We can begin to discuss- and this has been a topic for a long time and would be exciting to see whether this gains traction sooner rather than later, because we not only can we add specific collateral types, we can add collateral types and put them into different buckets and assign different risk parameters to them. So we could have low.

B

Risk high risk.

A

Eath or something for people with different risk profiles or different appetites for leverage. The same thing applies to us: DC cyrus, we'll talk about that. Mc has returned and he's going to present a prettier slide deck than he did previously. Due to due to public demand. There would be less words and more pictures. I was as part of that public.

A

Those demanding that Adrienne is here to give us a live, walkthrough I believe it's worth, maybe I'll be on Conan or maybe I may not be sure who knows of auctions maker.com and there's a large discussion to be had around that topic as well. Auctions are happening right now. That's a big deal and I'm sure we'll be talking about that. In light of sorry yeah, let me do my preamble and then I'm gonna hand it off.

A

Please please hanging you, please get on the mic. If you have access to one ask a question: we don't mind being interrupted. It's important that these conversations are as vibrant as possible. People have opinions, they need to be heard. This is the forum for opinions and for brainstorming and for review and for discovery and for campaigning people have ideas about ways that the ecosystem should move.

A

The protocol should move, and then we take those that the data those threads and then we bring them to the forums and once we get to the forums we make posts and then those posts turn into proposals. Those proposals turn into an action. That's the life cycle that we are enjoying right now.

A

So it's let's uh make sure that we keep track of what's happening here and if you feel strongly about something make a post about it, because this is open governance and it works and it has been working obviously can be improved and we're always improving it as well that it works as well. It's working right now, so if you want the protocol to change, make your voice heard and join us in the forums, because everyone can do it.

A

Alright, sorry, so I'm going to hand it off to you to sort of MC, so I think we have I should block I, don't know! Let me let's recycle esteverena. Let's think.

B

We should wash.

C

B

Think we should start off with the flop auctions, because they're they're running live right now, maybe some some some participants in the call are interested in getting to that. First of so that they may bid or are enough just makes more sense. Anything sounds.

A

Good to me, do you want to start let's chit chats or do you want to start with Nancy's presentation? You want to start with the demo. Oh yeah, the tool.

B

Maybe we can maybe BMC can give a refresher on how they work, and then we can jump into the demo with Adriene sounds.

A

A

I'm expecting animations yeah.

D

Felucca, full credit has to go to Soren for preparing this presentation. I'm just gonna present it.

D

Basically, we just go over like various scenarios in which I'll make a decoction start. Simmons like what's going to happen so like the two key time periods that we have to keep in mind for at auction are the bid expiry six hours and then the auction expiry three days so based on these two time periods and based on like participation in flop auctions, we could end up with and end up in, like one of three scenarios right. So the auction could be completed before three days.

D

It could be completed exactly like I, just just around like the three day mark, and then it could like go beyond like the three day mark. So this is what happens initially right, so we have Miko governors. I made a small mistake like in my last presentation, where he said. The first bit can be fifty thousand I for 250m.

D

Here, it's actually that's where it gets kicked off and the first bit needs to be three percent less so Miko governors have set the initial amount, 250m Kia for fifty thousand died, that's where it kicks off, and the first bid, as you can see like and maybe almost immediately or like means sometime in the first three day window, come and has to be at least like 242 like bit for at least 242 and cure in submerged 50,000 died.

D

So there are D, die itself immediately, goes to the maker protocol and then it's it can be used, gets added to the surplus and it can be used to reconcile dentate.

D

If, in the six are following the bit, nobody else adds nope nobody else bids on this particular auction. It ends, but let's say a second bed comes in. You can see this better here. They also serve my thing. 50,000 died, but this is going to be it's not too far. It'll be like three percent less than 240 to here, and this 50 thousand die gets returned to the first bidder and then like the six-hour window. Restart because remember this is bit expire.

D

This gets reset every time on you but comes on and if no other bit again is placed after this six hours this bed or do any the auction. Third bird, the same thing six hours gets reset. The bit expiry gets reset.

D

How does a bid or a net by executing deal and then right after the six are bit expiry. Anyone can actually execute these, and this is then the system meant same fear and sense. It too.

D

After this we can consider the auction to be done. Nothing else can happen here.

D

What if a new bid is placed just before the auction owns? So let's say there is competitive, bidding happening gets reduced and we are at almost at the three-day option. Expiry mark maybe like let's say one are the full expiry. Then a new bed comes in one hour before expiry the auction expiry. The bid expiry would still be six hours, but because the auction expiry is reached first, the entire auction ends like right at the three-day mark, so just within an hour yeah.

D

So once the auction expiry is reached, anyone can call him, even though it's been just being like 1r, since the last bid when Renton and as you can see, it's like the 50,000 I'll just get sent to the previous better. So if you're a breeder is not about it in the auction, you would get your like fifty thousand thigh back and you can use it for a new bed or participate in a different option entirely.

D

Yeah and then finally, if what happens, if there are no bids in the first three days on any of these auctions will execute thick and will restart the same debt auction. This time the lot size would be increased by 20%, so it will go to like 300 and clear and I believe that would mean the price would be. He said, 266 that diaper in here, and then this. This is going to continually three days until at least one bit comes through.

D

So that is how the debt auction is going to work. Are there any questions.

E

So just just to clarify, so if there is a bid, the six hour timer restarts in flop auctions, so it ends six hours after the last bid and people can, if they keep bidding it keeps getting. It keeps pushing the clock up.

D

Basically, it's simple: whichever comes first either the bid expiry or the auction expiry. So if we are well within the three day markets, the bit expiry is going to decide the final bid. But if you are like almost at the Tesla, there's been competitive bidding throughout the three days and then we are somehow like near the three day mark then, if that comes first, that will automatically decide who wins but yeah like I, think.

E

F

E

Actually so this isn't the case for collateral options. The.

D

Only reason it's not the case is because collateral auctions use the same time period for both but expiry an auction expects both our sector six hours.

D

Unlike flop, actions right.

E

D

Yak shall I stop sharing and shall we continue with the next item on the agenda. I think.

A

So if anybody has any questions that I'd type them in the sidebar I know it takes us a few seconds for some of them to bubble up, sometimes but maybe we'll hand it off to you, agent,.

G

Sure thing just give me a second.

G

So yeah I'll be showing my screen and I'd like to take the next like ten minutes to just go through the UI again.

G

Find the window.

G

Some of you were here yesterday any problems: water, quick teaser- that I gave it hasn't been a lot of changes since, but we can take this time to go through it a little bit more calmly and definitely donuts. They do interrupt me if you have any questions and we can just tackle them as we go, and whenever we decide that it's good enough and we can just cut it.

G

So the first thing I do want to show is live auctions happening right now, a minute and before showing anything another disclaimer that we did build this app in like seven days. So it is data we're still working through some of the little details and accessibility and making things responsive and etc, etc. So just keep that in mind as you're. Looking at this as you're using this etc.

G

Let's get into it.

G

Right so I'll skip everything at the top I'll cover that in the next demonstration. For now, what I really want to touch on are the current ongoing actions that you can see here. This is all real data happening right now on may not looking back at them sees presentation about the difference between the Tao and the TTL. As you can see, that is clearly stated in these cards as well. The darker number being the expiration of this last then bid and the great number being the Tao of the whole auction.

G

One thing: after yesterday's call, we did introduce a glossary view so that you have a bit of a description of watched. What each term on the screen names do keep in mind that we're still working in some of this text, so there might be a typo in there we'll make sure to have it all looking properly in the next few hours.

G

A few other additions that might help you inspect what is going on online that live are the filters. So of course right now it doesn't really apply, but you'll be able to display only ongoing auctions or, if you are, a user, participating these auctions. You can do that here.

G

If you are a user participate in the auctions using a keeper and you don't yeah you're not able to connect with that same address this UI. You can input the address of your keeper here and you should be able to filter all auctions based on that or didn't move the more obvious one you can filter by ID as well um yeah. This is a pretty cool just to look at if anyone is curious of what's happening right now we go to this URL and check it out, I think next. What I can show is.

G

Give a quick demonstration of how it works to bid and again. This is great- it's great- that I'm seeking representation right before this, because this is like a demonstration of the mechanisms they just explained, but.

G

Right now, I am connected Kovan and my large balances, and, given that this loads.

G

Well, this loads again you're able to.

B

G

Withdraw from your locked amount of dye in the VAT, which is the amount that you get to participate in auctions with, as you can see, this little transaction stay here,.

G

With this wallet, amusing I already authorized the the allowance transactions, which are required. I showed this yesterday, if you connect with a cold wallet, you'll have to do these three insurance actions to be able to unlock your balances there we go so what happens here is. Let's say you are a bitter and you've done the authorizations, you've deposit, some dye in the VAT, and you now have a balance come you can go ahead and find a auction that you want to participate in, for example, these auctions are only in the kick state.

G

That means that they have been started, but there has not been any bits yet well. This other one is a auction that has been started and that has been already one bid and you get to outbid that person. Let's do that if I press the instant did.

G

Hopefully the text here is explanatory enough, but essentially you're putting the smallest next step bid possible yeah. This tax will probably need to change, is not that accurate.

G

What we can do this right now and once this transaction- and we should see an update in the UI.

G

Ago this happens and it updates so now it shows that you're, the current winning bidder. This is the bit that I just put in I, didn't have to put any amount. So that was that you can also do a custom bit, of course, I'm gonna. Do it to this other one above I. Try to do it anywhere near the lot size I get this error, which is part of how the bidding works, so I have to do at least three percent, less I believe I do like this.

G

I should be enough, and here, of course, like you can put any date that they, like so I, can go. I've see this.

G

And that should work confirmed.

G

There we go current doing better. The one thing to keep in mind once you are a active bidder in this UI is that these filters become more relevant for you, since this is Kovan, we've been running it for a good few days. So if we have a few auctions that has already completed and has been has been dealt already I'll, so this is pretty much how it looks like I'm, also the winner of this auction, so the MKR was transferred to my wallet already there might be yeah.

G

These are auctions that has already ended, and I am the current current winner, but it hasn't been dealt yet.

E

G

Once I press this button, the nkr is going to be minted and sent to my account.

G

Users are not expected to be pressing this button. We have a few bots that are doing this in case something happens to those BOTS or in case it's not happening, quick enough for you and you're the winner of a auction. You can call that deal at any time from the UI a.

D

E

A note regarding the minting of them care yeah. So when you're the successful bidder, there's no transaction incoming of NPR to your address, there's just a change of your balance in the injera smart contract right updating to your address, so that's the only thing you'll see and clearly, when you actually be winning bidder, you'll see a mint event in the NPR's. My contract right. So anyway, if you just check your balance right, the way you'll see that you have a balance updated without having any transactions in Commons right.

G

Yeah, that's a good point. That kind of concludes the demo of interacting with the auctions before I go to the next section. Any questions about this I haven't been reading the messages. Maybe someone can read those out for me.

G

All right, cool, I.

A

Can read some of them encourage anybody with a microphone not to be shy, though Devon Walsh there's only 13 options going on right now. Is that true, and he asks how do we see if there are any options with zero bids and when will more options, kick on.

E

You know I think that Cyrus did a good job of answering in in the chats. It sounds like because the liquidations and the collateral, the collateral auctions happened kind of over time. The the auction will happen over time as well, so yeah I think I got my thanks.

E

A

It's good for posterity, though the chats frequently don't make it into.

A

Losses of crude look for auction all right, so if that's it's Cyrus, do you want to you.

G

Know just a closing note work on this, you I hasn't ended. We're gonna keep on working the next few days. I got a very simple quick list of priorities.

G

We're gonna continue finishing the current ey making sure there are no bugs making sure it works as expected, and it's performant enough. We expect more than 100 parallel auctions today and tomorrow we are having good conversations about the performance of our cache, API and they're gonna work on improving that, and once that's done, we are going to have it we're going to start having conversations about Phillip auctions, so collateral auctions at some point in the future.

A

Timely because our tenders ask that question. So the plan is then to expand it. Flippin, flap yeah, that's nice, X about 80! That's great.

A

So do you think us DC.

B

B

And so any last questions or any maybe last discussion points on the clock auctions well.

A

Actually, all the.

B

A

We seen a complete lifecycle occur yet and the auctions, or is it you.

B

Know it'll take six hours to see the complete life cycle and cane. Oh, you can't sue the the system. Debt go down in real time on dice tax because every time I've been is placed it. The system recognizes that some of the done is be done. Yeah.

A

That was gonna, be my next question whether we have any indication of the health or the success of the mechanism so far there is it too early to call always tempting the gods his he may want to make a suggestion or offer an opinion yeah.

B

We should probably not tempt the God yeah- let's- let's maybe circle back on that tomorrow-.

A

Trying to pronounce that name points out that the Syndicates is also operating right now and there's a link to a Google Doc. You can also just google maker Joe backstop syndicate and have a look at what they're up to the barrier to entry. There is far lower than the official interface. You know if I should be calling the official one but yeah so a lot of people to make their own decisions about which tool they prefer to use.

B

Sigh respect and there's one other one. Other interesting point is the crypto markets are seeing a bit of a rally right now and so there's likely to be some distortion between there. The auction price for the MKR in the secondary market price for don't care which may be interesting to know yeah.

A

It's bizarre the conflict I'm feeling right now the markets rallying. So we don't get to see the auction.

A

I guess I'll take a market rally. There.

B

Is actually this look like interesting edge case with the auctions where, if the market keeps rallying, then you'll just keep seeing bids and bids, and so even this very first round of auctions might take.

B

It could conceivably take one or two days, because if the market just keeps going up, then you'll see more and more people take advantage of the long bid, duration and the fact that the auction lasts three days.

A

B

A

B

So it's not it's not really that you'll see one or two bids and then the auction ends. Necessarily if the market keeps rolling, they could just keep being extended. Yeah.

H

That's good for us that right thing! Yes,.

B

That is, that is good for the system, but just pointing about that there are some edge cases where these auctions will not end precisely.

E

It's good for mkr holders, I mean so long as people are bidding the system's recapitalizing, but the higher things go up. The less mkr gets minted, which means lost solution and impaired.

B

Right, okay, so maybe we can move on to the USDCAD.

B

And chatter, in the forums several good threads going on I'll post a link to one right now in the sidebar.

B

This is just just repeating the theme that I've been harping on for the past two or three days now, which is um trying to have the community target a specific use case for the USD C collateral type as I'm I've been mentioning.

B

Possibly the really the primary or initial reason for adding the collateral type in my eyes was to provide liquidity to auction keepers who faces shortage of died during the flip auctions and potentially even the flop auctions, because, because dodge died, liquidity was obviously a huge critical factor to zero bidding from last week. At the same time, though, because of the severe dislocation in the die price, I was trading up to you know: 108 109, a lot of regular keepers are using the USD C collateral type to help arbitrage that die price back down and I.

B

While it's not easy to draw a perfect causation, the die price has been has improved significantly, since us TC was added and about almost 6 million. Die has already been generated in a very short period of time and tracking some of this die on chain. It's easy to see that a lot of this die is hitting Dex's and secondary lending platforms, and so it's I think it's reasonable to assume that the die being generated is helping the is helping the die price.

B

The downside, though, is that were rapidly eating away at the available dead ceiling for us DC so was set to 20 million and there's now only 14 million room left in such annex.

B

Suffer another extreme price drop, then auction keepers would now have reduced liquidity capacity from the US DC collateral type.

B

So this poses a bit of a problem and a few different solutions. A few different ideas have been added around in the forums personally. I think the most elegant one is to add a separate u.s. DC collateral type package. So there will be two different US DC's in the in maker table, but with different risk parameters, one can be set in such a way to be allocated for peg arbitrage and the other one can be, at least it can.

B

We can attempt to reserve it for auction keeper liquidity, I, think that and the methodology for for doing that is by trying to price out one use case with the other. So.

B

Right now, what some of the some of the risk guys are working on is trying to estimate what the what the ROI on Dai peg arbitrage might be based on capital based on dye requirements based on the length of time that the potential trade might have to be on and then basically increase the stability above that number and therefore it would become economically inefficient for keepers to use that second collateral package for peg arbitrage.

B

So question is: how high does that stability? If you need to be not quite sure right now, I think kind of initial estimates are may be arranging in like the 50% plus stability range. So if there was a, she could borrow died at a 50% stability fee and then making some assumptions on how long it would take to close out the trade. Then, potentially, it's not worthwhile to sell diet, a dollar three, a dollar for, for example, and that there's also several question of.

B

Why would we want to cap the amount of debt ceiling for the peg arbitrage? Why not just allow as much us DC as possible, so the peg can quickly return to one dollar the answer there is: um if that's the case, then we're likely to see perpetual day-to-day exposure of us DC in the collateral pool. This is something that potentially might be undesirable for the community versus the auction keeper US DC I.

B

It would only be it would only be in the system for very short, bursts of time, potentially just a couple days if that and therefore that would be significantly less long-term exposure. So when, when discussing the to die, peg version that would have daily exposure, governments may not want to accommodate too high of a debt ceiling.

B

So these are, these are kind of the main points. I, don't think, there's really too much to present, or in that case I think just trying to open this up to some freestyle discussions. There's thoughts and feedback and there's.

A

A good question, the sidebar- maybe you can talk to us a bit like? Can you can use my real question? Why keep two separate facilities for us DC, rather than just keep a single one as a high stability for you treated ends only an emergency liquidity for auction keepers? So can you talk a bit about the two specific use cases? They're, two demographics? That would be interested in two different types of your ESPYs.

B

Yeah so yeah those I mean those and other ideas to just increase the stability beyond the current one.

B

Given that the the original use case was for auction keepers, that might make sense, I think that the community has I mean I, can't speak to the long-term risks, but I think in the short term, the improvement to the dye peg has been very welcomed. I think everybody's a little feeling a little bit more at ease doing, given that the dye price is doing a bit better um in terms of demographics. Alright, I, don't really think, there's a significant difference.

B

I think keepers are fairly flexible and how they want to make money in this in the system. So keepers that are selling dive versus keepers bidding and auctions are likely to be a lot of overlap. This is more of a risk question on what kind of us DC exposure does the does governance want to have, and in in one case it's it's perpetual daily day exposure and the other one. It's very short bursts of time. Yeah.

F

Minutes the reason I asked is that we would be much more comfortable with keeping this only as an emergency facility, um and you know, I the, while the the bring the die price back down is certainly welcomed of you. That is less pressing and the potential you know blacklist risk of us DC as collateral in the system on like a regular ongoing basis to me, isn't worth isn't worth the trade-off. Yeah.

B

I tend to agree with you actually um very least I think we need some more discussion on that by Peggy use case before kind of having it sink in is this permanent fixture, oh yeah, sure cause.

H

It's a so on the peg case that does also help in times of late liquid liquidity crunch right, because, although obviously we want the auctions to be successful, we also want like what holders to like close their vaults before the a Liquidators and they're gonna, be more willing to do that. So if the pig is closer to one rather than if it's like, it's like.

H

Obviously they want to do anyway, but you know it's gonna, they're gonna, it's gonna hurt them a little less, essentially if they, if they, if they can do it, why close to $1 rather than diet like 106, 107, yeah,.

E

There's an inherent systemic risk with arbitrage based on USD C, since it's not going to go up in price with the rest of the creep of markets. For example, when someone arbitrage is the die paid using USD see there's implicitly there, depending on the die peg to come back down to where it's they can profitably close out their position and if die peg, doesn't come down and fees accumulate.

E

Now, there's gonna be a big, bigger liquidity crunch of those people saying oh crap I've got to close out my position before it goes negative and so they're sort of like delaying the risk. In a way you got to watch the exposure to that I think.

H

I say I'm always like spreading the risk outright, like you kind of spread the crunch hour across like a larger time, scale, which is we've.

E

Spread the crunch and you hope, markets recover, but if markets don't recover, it could be worse right like you're. Essentially you you know you're, it's baby. It's it's a gamble right, there's a level of gambling in there.

B

Yes, yes, I think I think the takeaway is that there's there's definitely a clear use case for the peg arbitrage version we just haven't: maybe spent enough time pricing the risk and and figuring out what kind of school we want. That's all and I think we have to get to that sooner rather than later, and then for the auction keeper liquidity.

B

That's something that the exposure risk is significantly lowered, because we would pretty much never expect to have any USD C in the collateral portfolio unless it was an extreme situation, at which point you would wanted it. You would definitely want to assume that risk and then, but right now, we're coming up to a position where we may not even have the auction look what it if we we need it so we're gonna have to we're. Gonna have to governance. Is gonna have to do some work to sort these sort. These issues out.

H

You were able to us to make like what, like the debt ceiling, we need for auction. Peepers is I.

B

Mean I think yeah I, don't know if we have like in a great way to estimate but I think looking at the liquidation price points and seeing how much daya needs to be liquidated and trying to estimate the initial starting pool of died for peepers as a whole. Those are all kind of research points that need to be undertaken.

E

Hey Cyrus I have a question regarding the peg arbitrage version. So if we keep like us, DCA open and even if we lower the stability feat day to day exposure to the UST see you're talking about, is there number two, which kind of risk would be comfortable, keeping the debt ceiling to which we know that it will have day-to-day exposure to it, but it won't be so overwhelming that it will kind of you know affect the other factors so meaning like we keep it in place, but we keep it small enough.

E

So then one of the pros is that it would like mitigate and help. You know bring the peg back during future crunches, but it also wouldn't be so big that it would create new opportunities right.

B

Yeah I mean that's kind of the million dollar question, so it depends on what you're trying to optimize for for a maker down. So let's say, let's say for some reason: the 20 million was maxed out and then all of a sudden that something terrible happens and maker has to eat that entire 20 million dollar loss would make her survive. I think so. I think that I think that we would see eventually flop options. Take that take that number down, but is that desirable?

B

In any sense, not really so I think that the solution involves trying to estimate some sort of likelihood that such an event might happen. So the huge difference, if that risk is something in the order of five to ten percent happening over the next year versus less than one percent. So these are kind of just like risk/reward probabilistic trade-offs. That governance is gonna, have to eventually make and then.

B

If they can do that, then if they can express their risk preferences, then from that you could derive like a debt ceiling that would we reflect their their tolerance.

B

B

H

H

I think part of the submission is part of the danger, but something to consider with changing the stability fee on the current package, for your CC is that the people that are currently are batricia I'm charging, the pic which you've done it's assuming that they'll be like 15% or whatever it is 25 cents is. Are they gonna double it? They're, probably not be incredibly.

B

Yeah, that probably wouldn't be a good idea. If, if government's wanted to reduce that peg arbitrage version, then potentially lowering the debt ceiling and then and then taking it from there, it would probably be the best idea.

H

Yes, I mean is the main thing. We need to kind of figure out like the split of debt ceilings. We want between the two like whether we want like cuz, I, I kind of feel, like no one's sort of super keen on increasing it, like over 20 million, for like the total so well.

B

I think it's just early right, I I, don't think we've seen I, don't think. We've had time to really digest what's been happening. Lately, there's still a ton of data analysis that needs to go on. Even even the effects of this of the peg arbitrage still need to be properly analyzed. So, for example, there was one criticism several days ago that was saying that if keepers are only minting dye from USD C, when it's above the peg and then trying to cover their positions at one dollar, then the net effect could potentially just be neutral.

B

They're, not actually achieving much in the long run. I think what the argument is that like when it comes to eath, is a collateral type. People are willing to mint die when it's above the peg when it's below the peg at all sorts of environments.

B

But if the, if the keeper use case for minting guy from USD C is, is very narrow, then it may not actually be giving maker Dow as tangible benefits, as we might have hoped so I mean I, think there's just a lot of processing to do with others.

I

Its primary use case without question would definitely be when the die Christ breaks above $1 to help pull it down. It's probably not as useful today until the markets mature to help pull it up if it goes below $1.

B

Right, so if if they're gonna mint die when it's above $1 and then just try to buy that die back it at $1,.

B

Is the net effect that significant thing that benefit the.

H

Point is it spreads it right like yeah, it is like in a crash. Everybody wants to go as well, so close everyone's shutting down died from ethers going down like a whole bunch. The point is after like, after, like a massive crash that we've seen like some people, some ethos will be more like risk-averse than others like some away from the CD B's again well, so evokes again like fairly quickly afterwards. Some will take longer something like will never come back right and like slowly.

H

Other people come in as the prices like the general price gets less volatile, so you're gonna have a situation where the dye that was backed with ethers, backed by USD, see in the short-term and then slowly that should move back to ease as the confidence in ethers. An asset improves again right. Yes,.

B

I guess it would dampen the volatility in the meantime right. That's.

H

That's what I think yeah the idea it dampens a liquidity issue in the meantime and like spreads over longer periods, and you can potentially get into that worst case. If, like. If the confidence in, if there's not increase again, then you're. Anything like more trouble like still in the same amount of trouble but yeah but like, but it spreads yeah.

B

I I tend to agree with you. I'm I was just to be clear. I was just putting up some arguments that I've heard from the community, but yeah I tend to agree with you that it dampens the volatility in the short run when it smoothes.

A

It out volatility damping. We saw yesterday a link that was circulating that allowed people to swap from an east wall to a US, DC vault in times of volatility and I'm still trying to wrap my head around what, but that implies for the system. Is it do you have you had.

B

A

To give that any thought, this is a good thing.

B

I saw that link I I, don't have time to properly explore, but I know I'm promotion and live we're having a chat about it in the forum, I'm not sure if either or on this call or we're willing to be put on the spot to talk about it. Yeah I can.

J

Talk about it, so basically, what this tool allows you as a as a vault, is that you can basically swap collect or a little bit out, without really closing your position in sense that you need to buy dye on the market with eater that you just withdraw from your bolt.

J

But basically the flash loan is used to repay your world, and then you just do Peter to USD, see trade and then open a new world with you. Is this equilateral in the issue dye and you repay the flash loan, which essentially means that you, as a user as a world you're, not really putting any liquidity? You're, not you're, not depending on liquidity of each to die, which is great right, because that ability is needed by option keepers and by market makers.

J

This essentially means that vaults will put less pressure on it to die liquidity, which is a great thing. The only thing I was thinking about is that you might have you know well collateralized worlds, which are not really endangering the system, but they might just see. You know this really nice tool and they would not neutralize their position by using this collateral swap, which means there would be a high debt ceiling. Con USD see if they would decide. So this is just one thing we need to consider.

J

If you see a high usage of this, we need to address the USD C Epsilon.

J

Otherwise, it's a very positive tool for the for the whole system in, in my opinion, yeah.

A

It seems very compelling, but I don't understand it. So I'm Matthew, but.

B

A

B

Your eat right for you, Matthew's, ask me some.

A

Poison I like it when people I should reference things that exist in the real world. So Matthew. Can you tell us without repo substitution? Well,.

I

Fundamentally, I mean a maker credit dyed facility is a repurchase agreement and the Treasury money. It's just that this exists already and whenever you have a repo outstanding with collateral, a Treasury for the yield to maturity of just pick a number X you know, depending on who has your repo facility, sometimes you're not allowed to do substitutions, and sometimes you can do five and almost no cases can you do an unlimited number of substitutions and this concept you're talking about or it's ineffective, flash loan refiled substitution is exactly what it is.

I

It's at the point of sitting that you SDC limit is exact that point, because you might hit that limit. It might go from whatever it is right. Now, eight million outstanding the credit limit. I, don't pick up the number, and you know you might hit 19 million for one block and then it go back down to eight million, just purely as a flash loan I may.

A

Take there's so much in your here if.

I

It's if it's in one ball, if it's not even in one block that happens, you don't even hit the limit. You can only hit the limit. I say that it's all a flash loan, so it all happens simultaneously in one transaction, so it still couldn't you're still constrained by that debt ceiling. But you it's. A good thing is the summary of having this substitution system.

B

And it doesn't close out your each position like if you go from an East fault owner to a US, DC, ball donor and well, you know longer than Eve exposure right. So if you're doing this in a market decline, I guess you should be aware that it would be effectively closing that your long eke exposure.

J

Yeah, exactly normally what you would do as a user, if there won't be any need to die sleep which I will just close your world right, because why would you open you SDC, vault and pay extra fees? But in this case, when you have eats to die slippage- and you know it's trading well above $1, you would just release your eater and swap it to. You is DC, because there is no slippage there and then open.

J

You is disavowed, issue die and repay the flash alone, so this makes only sense when you have a liquidity issue, which is actually great right, because those volts will be saving them and ourselves and there will be less. You know, exposure on the system, less work for market medicals, less work for option keepers.

B

Is it's what the e3 USD see it.

J

Basically goes on a bags, it straights each to us, DC and then put here is DC in a vault and issues die and replace flashed on. At least this is how I'm, how I imagined it I didn't like studied before they to be honest, I.

I

Mean there might be the step-by-step component and I haven't researched. It also forgive the commenter and forgive the ignorance on it, but you're just fundamentally adding collateral at the exact same moment that you're removing existing collateral without without having a liquidation event.

I

All simultaneously, so it's just a complete. It's a it's a debt. It's a collateral substitution, a complete replacement, so your unencumbered one asset and encumbering another.

H

The Perez I understand it's you've shown yourself. Usd, see use that to open us, DC volts you take that die use it. To close your faults, you didn't sell the earth you go out. You leave bolts for the US DC, which you used to then pay back. The flashlight I think that's I.

A

Guess I, maybe I'm just digging around because it sounds like this is great and great makes me nervous. His flash loans were supposed to be great as well so I.

F

A

That it's worth exploring the edge cases, it's an interesting development.

E

It seems like it just sort of swaps: eath die price pressure with eath USD C. So it's a trade-off, but it's a trade-off. That's good for us.

B

There might also be some issues with some collateralization requirements right if you're going from 150 to 125, it's fine. If you go into the reverse.

D

It's also I think useful in scenarios where, let's say a wall donor actually has the cash to pay back their debt, but dice trading like much higher above its peg, so they could buy USD C instead, lock it up in a wall, generate die by themselves and then pay off the Walton, keep silent escape and then over time. Once the pie graph covers, they can like recycle. That USD see for the whole thing. It almost gives like Waldo Emerson option, to have the capital to pay back their own debt without having to sell either.

D

Do it with us really so then it's they're not even interacting with the EQs DC market. It's like they just have the capital themselves static that they can use to pay back the world.

H

Yeah, it just moves that amount of toilet, courtesy like into the future right based on based on insula u.s. DC volts, where people want to close at some point soon, because it's like 15 percent SF, but not so soon. Yeah yeah.

D

I guess that's the key team, these days rates Latin because so switch that.

A

No joke we have, we have still some topics to get to and we're hitting the top of the one.

B

One last one ice point, one last point for the US DC regarding the debt ceiling for the peg arbitrage version.

B

There are some tools out there that show, or at least estimate the amount of the amount of cell pressure and I guess the amount of bids above $1 on the USD CGI pair and the government's can estimate roughly how much u.s. DC how much dye they would need to sell against US DC to get the bag back to one dollar. I'm posted a little bit further down in that forum thread I linked earlier I. Think the number as of right now I think there's roughly about five million worth of dye being bid above $1 I.

B

Don't know how updated like how up-to-the-minute that chart is, but um still an interesting data point for consideration of the debt ceiling.

B

B

Yeah: okay: let's move on to uh-oh I.

A

Think so we can obviously circle back. We might have time for a little bit of Q&A later I'm, not entirely sure, but long I'm gonna hand this off to you and there'd be just like which, which one you want to start with. Yeah.

H

I guess I guess we'll stay in like stay with coin land and there's been some kind of discussion about adding a different state, we're going to spread the risk of obviously having having, like a new permission to class role in the system.

H

So yeah, that's essentially the question like sorry Stu. Do you want to kind of share your thoughts on that.

B

But I mean given that this was not. This was a community I kid I'd like to hear from kind of some of the people who were proposing this. If they're on the call I, don't really have much context behind this idea.

A

So, let's put some establish the context here, so the idea, presumably, is that as we as we all know that well I was gonna start promoting dialogue. Do it so there's there's a range of.

B

Stable coins out there.

A

Each one of these stable coins has pros and cons associated with them different risk profiles, and the assumption correct me if I'm wrong awful awful wisdom is that us DC has a very specific risk profile and that we could potentially augment the portfolio by having additional coins with with different types of potentially he's subject to different, potentially additional oversight. Something.

H

I'm not sure people have thought too much about the different differences in risk profiles between them. I think it's more just like a kind of general like well at least if we have to than if one like it's. If one decides to misbehave I, don't know if anyone's I don't think anyone's like done the risk analysis in detail for, like any other any of the others versus us, DC and I, think it kind of comes from just like a. We want to diversify risk like where we can write. We need.

H

We need stable coins because we need the liquidity, doesn't necessarily have to be.

A

Why I guess it comes down to what is the list of options right, there's to be a fundamental or the recipe analysis of these individual projects to figure out where those risks exist?

A

Well, we believe the options. Well, what do people put out there as suggestions and.

H

Say TST is probably probably should be the first thing we look at and seeing as they have applied to be collateral. I did nights ago.

D

H

I know packs, as we mentioned as well, but I don't know that much about it. Tether has also been mentioned.

H

A

Think what are the other questions you need to do? Well, so this is. This is where we come back to the apathy urgency and denial stages that we go through, so we're into urgency and I can feel apps.

A

They already kind of creeping up like Oh markets are recovered, let's just all go back to whatever it is we were doing before, but obviously we need to maintain this thread right and the door has been opened to additional collateral types or stable coin collateral types figuring out what the cadence is and how to start evaluating these things are going to be tough right, but maybe the question is: are we still in this sort of responsive situation?

A

We were looking for our sources of additional, stable liquidity, and the time is now to get stuff done, or is the time now for us to refocus our efforts or collateral onboarding efforts to maybe just prioritize stable coins above other boys,.

H

I'm not sure personally, lately my kind of feeling towards it is that, like I, can't in the emergency that we need to liquid to see, we did like the like the easiest thing, which is.

H

Eventual goal is that we have fully deserve or like a bunch of it like asset classes right, but in the kind of vane of likes like to stable points is better than one like so 20 million debt ceiling spread across two stable coins. It's potentially better than 20 billion in one, so we're going so like even absent, like it potentially absent other risk, like even other risk analysis like better something that could be true. It's.

A

Also, liquidity issue right, like the this collateral types, aren't very useful unless people get in and out of them and that they can trade with them somewhere right. So yeah, that is true. I have no idea what USD T TUSD USD impacts, look like on the other Americans yeah.

H

A

Points out the tax has $100 and.

E

Ya circle is, or rather a USD, see, that's definitely the highest unless I'm missing something in terms of liquidity between die.

A

Well, that's to go standard right, like they never show exchange.

E

Yeah so go ahead. A local question regarding Suzy and USD C is a stable coin for Moe quiddity when's. The kind of proverbial dust settles like are: we gonna know whether it was effective or created like unforeseen effects like after one more week after one more month, I.

A

E

I'm gonna know like when were yeah the clear with the first stable coin before we should put a lot of work into adding much more.

E

I mean the dye price is coming down pretty nicely so seems like it's working.

A

Yeah, that's the problem is like that's: we have these confounding variables and we make changes during frosty part events in the ecosystem and then looking back and going okay.

A

Well, we did things and then something happened, and therefore the thing we did make this thing happen and I feel rich or other Rich's concern that we don't have a clear audit trail between our activities and the results that we were hoping to see, and so I would very much like to see something in the next couple weeks that just at least heavily correlates are the activities of adding these new file types with actual restoration of the peg and additional liquidity and the auctions and all the rest of this.

A

This is something we've been talking about for a long time in these calls we get with our cadence with their activities week to week. We pull levers, we change parameters and then the next week we see things happen in the market and we assume that those two things are directly related in personally. I am not convinced, if that's always the case. Sorry.

E

A

It obviously proved the community to ensure that we understand completely what the effect of us DC was in the next couple weeks and then continue to refine the parameters that we have so it's another thing that we need to understand is that all of this is subject to change from week to week. These these levers will be added to our polling mechanism. Right, that's something we haven't really talked about in the fog of war.

A

Right now is that we have weekly polls and those weekly calls are for basically MCD East, disability, free or sed, but now we have additional collateral types, and so those polls will begin to tweak those parameters as well. Okay,.

C

Reframe that question real, quick around us DC, because there's a discussion around effectiveness for stable coins, some of the using something like USD scenes, collateral, I, don't think the issuer. The question is: is it effective because if you allow this sort of perpetual put to be available, where users can you know swap in and mint more died and basically take a put on the peg and hope that, in the event that the peg comes down, they'll have made an arbitrage profit? That is a very clear, simple economic use case.

C

That I, don't think, is very much so in question of. Is it going to be effective, um I think, there's a different question around stable coins as collateral and the precedence of using USD C, which is more of you know. Somebody asked when are you out of the clear with us DC and how much will correlation do you need to see I mean the question is the risk of us? Dc is never going to change the risk of us. Dc is not something that goes down.

C

As you see more data, the the risk of us DC is what it is in that you have this potential custodial risk of this potential black washer, the.

A

Question is risk versus reward and.

C

A

Don't know what the reward is. We can measure the value prison, the risk.

C

For sure, so how much of a reward there is is definitely a question but I think you're likely to see that it will be effective. I just want to level set that the using us DC as a collateral, type and precedents for other stable coins in particular, is not so much about. How well does it work? It's not like if US DC works well and- and you know, people use it for arbitrage- use cases that that means you should allow others.

C

You know statements as collateral I think it's more about having a holistic discussion, evaluation of the qualitative risks associated with using some thank us DC and then let them reprimand.

A

It around it you're, saying you're, saying just simply, because we've we've adopted one type of risk over here. We shouldn't automatically go okay. Well, then, we need to diversify two different types of those same risks over there right yeah.

C

And you've also adopted it for a specific time and a specific problem with a specific solution that doesn't necessarily mean that you've done a blanket okay. If this is now a low-risk scenario,.

A

That's a great perspective, yeah, that's it there's all kinds of cognitive traps. Fallacies here and I fell into that one immediately too I think is well it's worth considering. So you know just because we've done one thing that might have some downsides: let's do a bunch of other things that have different downsides too, even at the downside of that first thing. Maybe that's not just the logical next step move me to reconsider. What is the full intention of the first thing that we did with you HDC and then figure out mitigation strategies, they're interested so.

E

Using the US DC stability fee, I think, is a way we can totally control how short-term US DC is being used like. If we go back into like a bull market, us DC should go back to zero pretty quickly and it should only I mean if we keep the stability. If he's the same like, maybe it may come up again again if we start having big drops, but you know it's I think we can keep it around in the system and just sort of use it as this shock absorber for large drops and we can.

E

If we really don't want to keep it around long term, we can just crank up the stability fee to keep the window shorter and shorter.

F

I think the issue Sam is that we don't we don't know exactly how us DC is going to behave and when we rushed it in in this manner. You know we didn't do a full analysis of the situation.

F

So it's hard to say how we should proceed in the future, but keeping it like. We brought it in for emergency response and we don't really know if it's working, we think it is sort of, but you know, I, don't think that has any that shouldn't have any precedent for the future. Necessarily besides fair emergency response.

E

But I'm saying the way we have the parameter set now it should only go above zero when there's emergencies like now not.

I

Necessarily I mean you know the whole point: it's been discussed and ad stable coins for as long as I've been aware of maker, where it was more of a market maker opportunity, and it just happened to be used this time during an extreme crunch and extreme price compression or elevation of die, but it's a market maker tool. Always that was the envisionment of it is the lower you have your coffee or collateralization ratio, the more you could lever it up to capture an arbitrage opportunity and I agree with you about the risk premium stability fee.

I

Whatever you know, the higher that number is, but if you're able to capture you know a two percent arbitrage and it costs you a quarter of 1% of the money to make it happen. You know whether or not that stability fee was 2 percent or 20 or a hundred. If you can capture that arbitrage, you're gonna, take it.

E

Yes, but sort of the timeframe gets contracted the higher this loyalty fee is completely.

F

E

Is what I'm saying I.

F

Kinda want to throw out there that whatever the debt ceiling is for us, DC is probably going to be the loss that's incurred. If you SCC were to have its own Black Swan event say the you know. Auditors came back and said that you know it's not fully. Collateralized the price goes down to 30 cents per USD. You see, people are gonna max out that whatever see whatever debt sitting cap, we have an exchange that Verdi almost immediately.

F

We don't have Oracle and the prices are according to one, so expect that within that six to eight hours that we've got between.

B

Positions are frozen for us, DC right now, so conceivably. There would be time for extra protocol measures to develop a plan right.

F

Well, we wouldn't liquidate anyways, because the price we don't have a price article that we trigger liquidations, I'm, saying that if somebody's holding a pile of us DC that drops the 30 cents, they transfer it into the adapter and they get a lot of dye. That's worth more than the bag that they're holding at the time and that's a huge opportunity right. There yeah.

B

That's actually yeah I forgot to mention that earlier. That is one of the huge risks for the auction.

B

Keeper collateral version is that, if, if we just have a collateral type with, say 30 million debt ceiling, but with no usage, if something were to ever happen to us DC, then all of a sudden that creates a huge huge risk to the protocol and then potentially, hopefully in the future, we could maybe see situations where the debt ceiling could be toggled on and off significantly easier, maybe through the so called instant access modules that were discussed several months ago or something like that yeah right now.

B

It is a risk that hopefully it can be mitigated in the future right. Just don't.

F

Gonzalo when our team has actually been working on kind of like a governor throttle to kind of have a global debt ceiling for a collateral type, but then maybe have smaller amounts so that you know every hour or something if we bump up against it. It moves itself up, but it doesn't allow people to flow a hundred percent into a debt ceiling all in one short period of time. So that's something that we could be considered.

E

I'm, just gonna piggyback on this concern and state, but I think most crypto anarchists care decentralization advocates are gonna say, which is that as a collateral type, we always risk the Black Swan of having our jointed after blacklisted and the entire collateral just disappear enough from under us, and so we need to also price in that risk or consider you know, limiting debt ceilings based on that risk or keeping them very low, except for times when we're you see where we have a sort of instant access module to to flip it up to something much higher yeah, so I mean there's, there's lots of discussion that if we weren't in an emergency, we would have all had this discussion ahead of time.

E

But I just wanted to add that yeah.

F

Agreed like we lost, we have to pay back 5.3 million dollars in these flop auctions right now, but if we lost 20 million and us DC in a flash, you know that would make that look like peanuts.

H

So does that mean as an argument before using it more as a pick management tool and not an auction ability thing because say we have the 20 million debt ceiling only for auctions and it won't be used most the time and we still have the same risk of collapse in the same risk of the u.s. DC having the.

A

Risk teams need to come back with with the portfolio right or they need to protect the portfolio. They don't need to protect individual aspects like it's, the safety and security of the entire collateral pool and so I think Cyrus incorrect if I'm wrong. My let's say speaking for you, but isn't the point that the protocol needs to be able to absorb whatever additional risks US DC brings to the table and therefore that sets the parameters that the current ecosystem needs to be voting on. So the.

B

H

A

It's limited to that specific.

B

Sir yeah I mean that principle still holds um I think this is more of like a technical question of how can we prevent maker from being exploited in otherwise normal times?

B

So I think it's it's. The concept is somewhat tangential to the to the current conversation, but presumably so like to answer longshore wisdoms question. A super inefficient way of achieving what we want is to have the collateral type for auctions for auction keepers added, but have the debt ceiling set to zero and then, when the time should arise that we need it. We could rally an emergency executive vote to increase the debt ceiling and provide that liquidity on super short notice. It just has to be turned on through an executive vote.

B

My fear with that is that it kind of be it would really be a race against time, given the auction dynamics and the GSM and just kind of the social coordination is that preferable to just having the debt ceiling of 20 million that they're unused for extended period of time?

B

What I'm, not sure, yeah you're right about the exposure about having it still have that exposure yeah.

I

If you say it's unused, but you gotta, remember: we've done that before about flash loans or refinancing or substitutions, you don't know. If it was used right I mean it could easily be used right. Now it's and 10 15 million dollars in a block and repay itself. You don't even realize it depends on how flash loans can be constructed. It may very well be hitting those numbers right now.

H

We still see the transaction you'd.

I

Still see a transaction but I mean if I'm, just making up a theoretical right, I mean if they're. If somebody has collateral, that's an E and they want to do a in effect, a flash loan that reef eyes it to USD, see that then turns around to refile it against that. As an example, you could construct all of that in one transaction, yeah.

H

My point is: you can still see that transaction if it correctly correct.

I

But setting that limit, if you lower the debt ceiling for USD, see you inhibit that substitution capability.

H

So maybe it's my choice is never to be like binary right. We didn't have to have 20 million of open debt-ceiling, like all the time like we could have like 5 million or like 3 million or even like always, and then we could react and add like another 17 million or something in the result of having a crash right. So then we have like 3 million immediately, which is on max risk in the case of collapsing, and then we have like within 24 within, like the GSM delay.

H

We can have another like 17 million or whatever right. So maybe that's worth considering.

I

100% I agree with that: I mean I, think and more more than anything, I think it forces us to rips off the band-aid for the first time of us having collateral that is off chain and embracing understanding, calculating what the risk profile is and what we should set our risk parameters around having something that is. Theoretically, you know able to be constant gated, which is the world we live in with any aspect of collateral.

I

That's not a theorem ERC, 20 native, you know, if you, if we ever intend on bringing real estate in as collateral in any capacity or stocks or bonds or Treasuries every one of those has custodian issues every one of those has the rule of law of whatever country and whatever jurisdiction is behind it. This just happens to force us to rip off the band-aid and address it and go through the calculations. That's a good thing, but having a low debt ceiling after it's no longer a need, but removing it as collateral. I, don't think.

I

There's value in that I think that's counterproductive, keeping it there, but just constraining it with a low debt scaling allows us to always increase that. Keep that flexibility, I.

E

Mean we may want to constrain its debt ceiling to something that would match our system surplus once we build that back up that way. If we ever took a hit, it would just eat surplus and that's a risk that I'm care holders would have to calculate. But we wouldn't we wouldn't go into debt.

H

F

You we also need to consider like the the practical governance aspects, because I'm looking at MKR gift sides right now and the 87,000 mkr in support of the current spell and then 61 thousand and fifty three thousand on the next two. So if we keep expecting that, we can just keep passing new executives. It seems like I'm, carries kind of getting spread out right now and that might be an issue.

F

F

H

I guess maybe we need to so. Regarding the u.s. DC thing do we do we need to make immediate changes?

H

I guess it's the question like sorriest, you think there's like serious danger that the current debt ceiling being used for like things that aren't auctions and that's going to cause.

B

And I don't know, I mean that the risk is I mean I. Think if everybody understands this, the concept of the centralization risk I'm, certainly not a subject matter expert on on that topic. So.

H

So much the centralization risk more like we put it in to be there for like origins right like do, we need to make changes to ensure that we meet the rhetorical, was.

I

It therefore only auctions, I mean I.

H

I

I don't want to rehash it, but I mean there's a good argument to say that you know the prime one of the prime objectives here should be to get the peg back to 1.00 and five other zeros breaches above 101. Well, oh it's at 102. Right now so I'd say it's still useful to have it hanging out there because there's an arbitrage capability right now to help pull it down.

B

Yeah I, don't think anyone's disputing that the benefits that it's bringing right now but to answer long for wisdoms question I, think I think we can all benefit from a little bit more research and just maybe taking a few more days to kind of properly process. The situation yeah.

A

I agree: there's there's still an inherited point set out in the sidebar there's still post mortems, there's still we're still kind of in the thick of it right now, and so we are showing off the system, but there's going to be a pause for reflection and then there's gonna be documentation and post mortems and discussions about what just happened.

A

Presumably next week, hopefully early next week and I, think they will be able to use that information to kind of inform what happens next and then, as Brian points out, we have a regular governance cycle that needs to be addressed as well. So we can use these leavers that we have to to alter us DC over the coming weeks.

A

And that sounded like me putting it into things and it might have been weird a half hour or the hour and a half mark actually and so there's a decision to be made here. I know that a lot of people have lives that don't involve maker governance. Sadly, and there's lots of work to be done, I think I'll be ending the recording soon, but I'm open to leaving the call running for another half hour.

A

So if we wanted to have a general Q&A session, I'm still wrestling with this behavior that I've identified, where people's tend to get a lot more opinionated with the recording stuff and that's great, we can have the permanent record and we can have a free-for-all afterwards. Just among us is.

H

It may be worth talking about the PR thing before coding. What do you want to push that to tomorrow.

A

Well, I'm, it's entirely up to you. I I think this is a very important topic and I'm afraid that it might not get the attention it deserves if we just kind of cram it into the last few minutes, I, don't know what you want to talk about, but I want to discuss a larger issue.

A

So when things are happening quickly, we live it well, we live in a space where hot takes are rewarded with followers and that's not a great world to live in, and so it behooves the community and the foundations and me to pay attention to what the ecosystem is saying and what people are talking about and I would dearly love to begin talking about. How do we as a group, help correct misconceptions and how do we help the ecosystem find the information that they need and how do we engage in healthy debates?

A

Without you know, feeding the trolls and all the rest of it I think. There's a lot.

B

A

Really important discussions to be had does that align with your thinking? Well course, I, don't know what you wanted to talk about pretty.

H

Much yeah, just sort of I mean it was kind of that and like how do we like, because currently we like the Dow is unable to like speak, authoritative, Lee right, like we haven't, got a process for deciding things that you want to say like present to the outside world and like waiting on the more like you know and like ratifying them or whatever. So.

H

A

If there's some group that would want to organize to be able to handle this kind of thing, and then we could build a bridge between the foundation and that group to help knowledge sharing best practices, different venues for discussions, all kinds of there's a lot of really good and important work that could happen here. That's not technical! That's non technical um in plenty of resources.

B

A

The ecosystem I think that we could bring to bear that have been previously unutilized, so yeah, so I'd prefer, if there's up to me, I, prefer to maybe dedicate some significant time to it tomorrow in a call center.

H

That's reasonable, for me: I mean rikku, I, guess I! Guess maybe it's funny this is do we still think we need to like the daily cadence at this stage.

F

H

Need to keep having are we gonna meet over the weekend as well. Bitcoins.

A

Moving so everything's fine, let's just all go back to that I comfortable as how I'm comfortable with having another one tomorrow, um maybe to just review auctions and stuff, but yeah I'm. Also fine, with saying okay we're out of the woods for now, at least for the moment. I. Don't.

H

Know maybe review tomorrow, maybe have a short call and then I mean I'm guessing good. What I want to be over the weekend? So maybe we maybe we leave those two and then potentially get one on Monday. If things are horrible again, I don't.

A

Know what the size of the ask is look. This is my life and so another call tomorrow whatever. If the community doesn't have the appetite we can skip but I think that there's well, here's people aren't forced to join so yeah. We don't really need to debate it all that much. Let's just have a call to mow and we'll talk and how the auctions yep.

H

A

All right, I think I'm going to leave it there unless there's a massive outpouring of interest in the sidebar in the next ten seconds, but a desire to keep on having a lot of call to continue. I'll, probably stop the recording, show ya thanks everyone for joining thanks for your continued attention to the the safety and security of the protocol.

A

That's touched on this yesterday, I think did I get some incense metal I'm made of the the tremendous outpouring of interest and activity and the community pulling together to do things like the syndicate and additional you eyes and coordinating PR and just discussion discussing these issues in the forms has been heartwarming. Actually, if you have to believe I have a heart trust me, I do and it has been warmed by this activity. So I want to thank everybody for for coming up and helping us all, and this time of beat talking about tomorrow.