►
From YouTube: Governance and Risk Meeting: Ep. 81
Description
Agenda
This will be the last call in the daily "Black Thursday" series.
- Richard Brown: General Q&A
- LongForWisdom: How to manage PR as a community
- Cyrus: FLOP Auction Results
- Open to a review of the weeks events and a general Q&A from Risk
- Mitote: Emergency Shutdown Criteria for MCD?
Links
Podcast version: https://feeds.soundcloud.com/playlists/soundcloud:playlists:623643288/sounds.rss
Summaries: https://community-development.makerdao.com/governance/governance-and-risk-meetings/summaries
Foundation Proposal: https://community-development.makerdao.com/governance/core-principles
Governance and Risk Framework - Part 1: https://community-development.makerdao.com/governance/governance-risk-framework/part-one
Website: https://makerdao.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/makerdao
Forum: https://forum.makerdao.com/
Chat: https://chat.makerdao.com/home
Email: info@makerdao.com
A
Hello,
everyone
welcome
to
the
Friday
life
comes
at
you
fast
addition:
the
signs
of
the
governance
and
risk
meeting.
It
is
March,
20th,
I'm,
thinking
that
this
might
be
the
last
of
our
daily
Black
Thursday
calls
in
that
in
that
series
and
potentially
we'll
go
back
to
the
normal
cadence,
we'll
see
how
that
shakes
out
over
the
course.
The
weekend
we
might
be
reviewing
that
decision,
depending
on
what
the
weekend
has
in
store
for
us,
but
today's
agenda.
What's.
B
A
A
A
Yeah,
let's,
let's
consider
that
and
yeah
and
if
I've,
depending
on
how
the
community
feels
we
can
do
something
up
to
like,
maybe
to
use
doing
something.
You
know
we
might
be
a
slightly
having
a
slightly
PTSD
version
of
the
call
today
seems
like
people
are
piling
in
slightly
slower,
who
knows?
Maybe
they
have
something
better
to
do
in
a
Friday.
I
can't
imagine
what
could
be
better
than
this,
though
the
schedule
for
today
long
for
wisdom.
We
at
the
end
of
last
week's
call
we
last
week's
call
life.
Yesterday's
call.
A
We
talked
about
many
many
things,
but
towards
the
end
of
it,
we
got
to
an
agenda
item
about
PR
and
for
the
marriage
in
the
room.
We're
not
talking
about
full
request,
we're
talking
about
public
relations
and
that's
something
that
the
seekers
have
bought,
because
the
community
needs
to
should
I
need
to
catch
my
words
in
so
exhausted.
It
would
be
nice
if
the
community
could
align
on
some
ideas
around
how
they
want
to
tackle
this
issue,
because
we
have
a
lot
of
tasks.
A
We
have
a
lot
of
domain
experts,
be
a
lot
of
work
to
do
and
frequently
we
get
really
focused
I
think
sometimes
on
monetary
policy
and
risk
and
technical
issues.
But
there
there's
more
to
the
world
than
just
that,
and
one
of
these
these
new
unturned
rocks
that
we
can
begin
thinking
about
in
our
community
is
how
do
we
handle
public
perception
and
how
do
we
handle
sentiments
and
how
do
we
get
head
of
narratives
and
how
do
we
correct
misconceptions
and
inaccuracies
in
the
ecosystem?
A
A
You
could
bring
some
some
some
valuable
insights
so
that
the
issue
that
we
need
to
deal
with
and
so
we'll
get
to
that
Cyrus
is
going
to
talk
about
the
flop,
option,
results
and
then
maybe
we'll
just
have
a
general
risky
Q&A
about
the
events
of
the
week
and
my
--tote
will
initiate
a
conversation
about
emergency
shutdown
criteria.
So
this
this
is
another
major
issue.
A
We
need
to
continue
these
threats
because
we've
been
talking
about
SCD,
emergency
shutdown
for
months
and
months
and
months
now,
and
that
specter
raises
itself
up
and
then
gets
pushed
to
the
side
and
or
well
maybe
just
ignored
who
knows,
but
the
time
might
be,
it
might
be
coming
soon
about
refit.
We
literally
have
to
address
this
thing,
so,
let's
start
kicking
off
those
conversations
in
earnest
again,
I
think
that's
going
to
be
it
for
me.
I
will
repeat
the
same
thing.
I
repeat
every
single
call.
Please
do
not
be
shy
about
chatting,
particularly
today.
A
This
is
just
gonna,
be
a
Yolo
call.
So
if
you
want
to
talk
about
something
talking
about,
it
feel
access
to
a
mic
jump
on.
If
you
do
not
have
access
to
a
mic,
please
type
your
questions
in
the
sidebar
and
we'll
read
them
out
as
time
allows
and
as
we
notice
them.
Also,
let's
try
to
make
an
effort
to
have
less
meetings
at
the
same
time
we're
having
this
meeting.
A
So
if
there's
a
furious
conversation
happening
in
the
sidebar
that
could
be
brought
to
the
attention
of
the
wider,
please
do
so
because
frequently,
the
sidebar
conversations
don't
make
it
into
the
historical
record
and
it's
very
important
that
all
the
stuff
ends
up
on
the
youtubes
at
some
point,
in
our
get
books
and
in
our
transcripts
and
our
summaries,
okay,
I
don't
have
any
strong
opinions
about
ordering
today
long.
What
do
you
think
you
want
to
talk
about
Peter
and
then
we'll
take
it
from
there
yeah.
B
Yes,
I
mean
I,
don't
I,
don't
have
a
whole
lot
to
I.
Guess
to
what
you
said
previously.
What
is
that,
like,
we
kind
of,
seems
like
we
need
a
way
to
figure
out
like
the
kind
of
run
we're
trying
to
solve?
Is
it's
a
way
for
the
for
the
doubt
to
speak,
like
authoritative,
typically
on
its
own
behalf,
right
like
so?
In
order
for
that
to
happen,
we
can
you
to
agree
on
a
statement
in
some
way
or
like
agree
on
like
things
we
want
to
say
we
never
have
a
mechanism
for
that.
B
A
That's
tremendously,
it's
like
I,
said
it's
going
to
be
tremendously
valuable
tool
in
our
tool
belt,
but
you
touch
on
kind
of
like
the
primary
concern
here
is
that
we
have
a
disparate
group
of
people
that
are
loosely
collected
together
under
the
the
definition
of
being
the
down,
and
we
don't
really
know-
or
at
least
it's
my
contention-
that
we
don't
know
what
that
even
means.
But
I
don't
want
to
ruin
any
of
these
days.
So
maybe
we
can
scare
you
know,
but
how
do
we
align?
How
do
we
just
find
consensus?
A
B
I
haven't
thought
too
much
about
it.
Yet
so
it's
like
there's
a
couple
of
ways:
I
guess
we
could
go
like
we
could
go
down
the
route
of
having
yeah,
like,
as
you
said,
like
PR,
at
a
PR
domain
teams,
they're
like
AP
out
like
ratified
and
like
PR
person
who,
like
attempts
to
synthesize
some
some
points
from
like
things
that
community
have
been
saying
which
doesn't
sound
like
a
fun
job
or
potentially
we
can
have
again
but
doing
doing
it.
B
Otherwise,
it's
kind
of
what
we
can
attempt
to,
rather
than
having
one
person
whose
job
it
is
to
sort
of
just
sort
of
spread.
That
message
we
can
potentially
just
try
and
decide
on
like
some
points
that
people
loosely
agree
with
and
then
sort
of
keep
it
as
a
list
for
people
to
for
people
to
look
at
it's
like
if
it
when
there
was
giant
combats
like
like
and
yeah
it's
what.
A
B
A
D
Is
also
bigger
than
just
like
making
statements
or
writing
articles.
It's
like
whole
marketing
like
how
you
present
die
or
present
the
vaults
like
that's
what
people's
perceptions
are
of
it
and
like
the
liquidation
penalty
example
like
it
definitely
wasn't
clear
that
vault
owners
can
lose
a
lot
of
collateral.
B
B
B
A
Like
there's
a
good
opportunity
here
to
like
that,
this
is
the
time
to
write
because
post-mortems
need
to
happen.
We
need
to
look
back
and
try
and
figure
out
what
happened
but
like
I'm
in
the
middle
of
all
this
stuff
and
I'm,
not
even
sure
what
happened.
Really.
That's,
of
course,
the
last
week
we
know
all
these
threads.
B
A
That's
a
great
segue,
because
there's
people
on
this
call
I'm
reasonably
sure
that
would
be
great
additions
to
this
versioning.
Potentially,
a
hypothetical
team
are
the
people
in
the
call
to
have
experience
in
this
world
in
the
PR
world,
public
communications,
community
building
stuff,
like
that
they
were
thought
for
some
suggestions.
I
see
rich
other
rich
shaking
his
head,
but
he's
one
of
the
guys
that
I'm
hoping
would
jump
right
on
I
mean
I'm.
D
Interested
in
helping
out
but
I
feel
like
this
is
a
bit
different
than
like
normal
public
communications,
because
the
system
like,
like
you
said,
like
you,
don't
even
know
what
happened
like
very
few
people
like
know
exactly
what
happened
and
that
whole
thing
needs
to
be
communicated
that
this
is
like
a
really
complicated
experiment
that
we
don't
completely
understand
and
I.
Don't
think
that
has
been
communicated.
A
There
are
no
roadmaps
we're
right,
like
that,
requires
alignments
in
an
assumption
of
a
certain
amount
of
responsibility,
because
this
core
group
is
going
to
be
potentially
responsible
for
saying
things
on
behalf
of
a
large,
an
amorphous
group
of
individuals
or
we
even
know
what
their
addresses
are.
If
we
don't
know
who
they
are
or
what
they're
thinking
or
why
they
do
those
things
right.
It's
gonna
be
a
super
tough
job.
B
C
A
A
E
Think
who's
got
communication
skills
and
is
interested
in
this
you
know
should
be
good.
Consider
like
speaking
up
as
long
as
somebody's
got
a
got
a
willingness
to
learn.
You
know,
I
think
you
don't
necessarily
need
to
like
have
been
a
brand
manager
or
anything
like
you've
used
social
media.
You
know
things
about
maker
and
communicate
well
and
are
excited
by
this
I
certainly
didn't
write.
Then
you.
A
Tend
to
raise
the
bar
like
we
don't
we're
only
expecting
communications
degrees,
sure,
okay,
obviously,
we've
already
seen
this
group
is
a
proven
example
that
it
doesn't
matter
where
you
come
from
and
what
you
do
or
whether
you
deliver
pieces
all
day
long.
You
could
be
a
genius
and
we
does
really
need.
A
E
C
So
I
believe
I've
been
taking
summaries
of
these
meetings
for
a
few
weeks
and
I
got
to
say,
I've
been
incredibly
impressed
with
the
community's
response.
Over
this
last
week,
I
mean
from
the
panic
of
Black
Thursday
to
the
developing.
You
know,
mechanisms
for
these
auctions,
I
think
it's
amazing
and
I
think
that
a
lot
of
people
would
be
really
impressed
at
how
the
responses
of
the
community-
and
these
calls
have
happened.
So
you
know
I,
don't
have
a
communications
background,
but
I'd
be
interested
in
this
as
possible.
A
A
Well,
I
think
I
think
that
maybe
one
of
the
interesting
things
to
add
the
list
of
into
dues
for
the
for
a
group
like
that
would
be
to
identify
negative
narratives
right
and
try
to
get
ahead
of
those
like.
Obviously,
we
seem
concerned
about
us
DC
and
from
the
brief
moments
of
free
time
I've
had
over
the
last
week
digging
into
reddit
and
crypto
Twitter
and
all
the
rest
there's
been
a
ton
of
reaction
that
frequently
like
obviously,
concerns
are
valid.
A
There's
what
we
all
know
it
that
we
took
the
ecosystems
taking
on
a
certain
amount
of
risk
with
us
PSU,
but
the
concerns
that
I've
noticed
just
anecdotally
are
the
wrong
concerns
the
hey.
If
people
have
concerns,
we
should
also
help
them
and
should
help
ensure
that
they
have
the
right
ones
right
like
it's,
not
just.
A
F
I
have
a
question
from
my
Vintage
trying
to
inject
there's
like
three
scenarios,
there's
like
one
which
an
external
just
a
reporter.
He
sends
it
on
a
call
because
it's
available
and
then
they
just
quote
people
without
them.
Knowing
that
have
been
quoted,
that's
happened,
second
scenario:
they
could
reach
out
to
individual
people
and
those
people
will
give
quotes
and
they'll
just
say,
but
I
don't
speak
on
behalf
of
anyone
or
everyone.
F
Know
a
Gerdau
community
in
the
past
for
my
bench
to
point
out
being
like
super
close
to
any
of
this,
like
the
massarde
is
the
coin
des
like
the
block
people
like,
I
see
them
on
this
call
like
which
of
those
scenarios
today
usually
reach
out
to
her,
hasn't
been
like
across
the
board.
They
just
read
out
in
a
haphazard
kind
of
fashion,
so.
B
A
A
A
C
H
C
A
I
I
Right
so
posted
the
link
to
the
auctions
UI
in
the
sidebar
and
over
there
you
can
see
that
33
auctions
have
completed
I,
believe
the
closing
price
for
every
single
one
of
those
was
265
died
and
then
seven
are
still
pending
due
to
the
TTL
and
those
showed
up.
Oh,
it
looks
like
37
are
complete
now
and
there's
three
remaining.
I
E
E
So
if
anyone
was
paying
attention
very
much
to
the
public
messaging,
you
might
have
seen
me
or
others
in
chat,
saying
we're
expecting
49
flop
auctions
on
Thursday,
and
if
you
look,
you
see
that
only
40
flop
auctions
happened.
So
this
begs
the
question:
where
did
the
other
nine
flop
auctions
go?
Well?
One
of
them
we
think
basically
got
sniped
out
by
just
enough
surplus
came
in
to
prevent
it
from
being
triggered,
but
that
leaves
you
eight
auctions.
E
What
happened
so,
unfortunately,
I
haven't
had
time
to
make
slides
to
explain
this,
so
this
might
be
a
little
high
level
and
or
fuzzy,
but
basically
in
the
system's
asynchronous
accounting
system,
debt
that
goes
to
flop.
Auctions
is
treated
a
little
bit
differently
than
other
types
of
debt
and
it
needs
to
be
cancelled
out
through
a
separate
mechanism
and
yesterday,
in
the
course
of
triggering
these
various
debt
cancellation
mechanisms.
E
E
I
G
Let
me
so
what
Curt
said
is
that
we
were
debating
whether
to
call
this
a
bug
or
not.
We
decided
that,
yes,
it
is
a
mild
bug
because
it
breaks
what
the
contract
should
do
so
after
a
waiting
period,
but
that
should
be
flushed
out
and
salt.
You
know
in
debt
auctions,
and
the
way
this
happened
is
that
some
amount
is
stuck
so
right
now
it
cannot
be.
G
It
cannot
be
flushed
out
after
the
after
the
wait
period,
which
is
6.5
days,
it
can
be
canceled
out
with
surplus
still,
so
the
debt
is
still
there
right.
It's
not
like
it's
going
away.
Only
that
yeah
it
kind
of
breaks
the
you
know
the
risk
parameter
thing
of
a.
If
there
is
about
that.
After
a
certain
amount
of
time,
the
system
will
mint
will
create
flop
auctions
to
to
cancel
it
out
by
minting
nkr
right.
So
right
now,
I
believe
there's
400
K
of
it.
E
It's
basically
there's
close
to
400,000
or
the
amount
of
eight
flop
auctions.
That's
in
this
kind
of
stuck
state
where,
even
though
it's
bad
debt
that
exists
in
the
system,
it
won't
actually
get
flop.
Auctions
launched
to
cover
it
instead
of
have
to
be
covered
by
surplus
coming
in
from
other
sources,
either
liquidation
penalties
or
stability
fees.
E
Like
I
said,
governance
can
take
simple,
straightforward
action
to
unblock
these
flop,
auctions
and
long
term.
We
can
address
it
through.
Smart
contract
upgrades,
it's
kind
of
still
in
discussion
exactly
what
the
best
fix
for
this
is
given
the
need
to
balance
technical
risk
of
upgrading
certain
court
contracts,
but
that's
yeah.
That's
the
basic
summary.
Okay.
B
E
Basically,
there
are
two
functions
in
the
accounting
system
that
cancel
out
bad
debt.
One
is
for
cancelling
out
bad
debt.
That's
been
sent
to
flop
auctions,
the
other
is
for
cancelling
out
what
I'll
just
refer
to
as
as
free
debt,
which
means
debt,
that's
not
in
the
city,
not
in
the
queue
and
also
has
it
gone
to
a
flop
auction
and
if
keep,
and
if
keepers
are
only
using
the
function
that
cancels
out
the
free
debt.
That's
how
this
problem
arises.
E
Where
debt
gets
stuck
so
keepers
should
prioritize
canceling
out
debt,
that's
gone
to
flop
auctions
before
they
cancel
out
the
free
debt,
we're
you
know
we're
trying
to
make
sure
the
code
of
any
like
open
source
keepers.
We
have,
you
know,
implements
this
logic
now,
but
there
you
know
it's
a
permissionless
system,
so
there's
no
guarantee
that
it
won't
happen
right
because
there
are
other
other
BOTS
out
there,
and
people
are
using
even
smart
contract
proxies
and
who
knows
what
logic
they
have
implemented.
So
it's
it's
hard
to
say
whether
it'll
happen
at
all.
E
You
know
if
keep
calling
the
functions
in
the
right
order.
It
doesn't,
it
doesn't
have
to
happen,
so
we
don't
know
yet,
but
you
know
you
can
kind
of
put
a
bound
on
it
by
you
know.
Looking
at
at
the
at
the
rate
is
at
the
rate
at
which
things
come
off,
the
syn
Q
versus
the
rate
at
which
surplus
is
probably
coming
in
from
flop
auctions.
You
know
it,
it
won't
be
all
of
it,
it
could
be
some
of
it.
It
may
not
happen
at
all
yeah.
E
It
doesn't
help
keepers
at
all
yeah
we're
trying
to
participate
in
these
auctions
and,
like
I,
said
it's,
it's
not
really
an
attack
on
the
system,
because
governance
can
always
fix
it
quite
easily.
It's
just
the
system
behaving
in
a
way
it
wasn't
designed
to
I
guess
if
you're
a
real
code
as
well
all
adherent,
there's
no
problem,
but
you
know
I
don't
take
that
position
on
this.
You
know.
There's
the
system
was
supposed
to
have
a
certain
behavior
and
it's
not
quite
conforming
to
that
behavior.
So
I
would
I
would
term
this
a
book.
E
G
E
E
A
G
No,
no,
like
I,
mean
unless
the
community
feels
that
this
is
like
a
huge
problem
which,
in
in
our
opinion,
is
not
because
there
there
are
gonna,
be
more
flop.
Auctions
coming,
it
is
just
like
we
said
what
it's
like
less
than
10%
of
what
they
are
right
now
that
are
blocked,
so
they're
still
going
to
be
flop
actions
in
coming,
and
we
can
once
we
tell
the
community,
you
know
via
slides
in
a
forum
post
what
this
is
and
what
we
think
the
fix
should
be
because
it
is
going
to
require
a
governance
vote.
G
We
can
have
it,
we
can
have
it
next
week.
Let's
say
yes,
let's
just
clarify
like
what
the
worst
case
here
is
right,
so
it
the
only
thing
that
can
happen
right
now
is
that
a
few
more
of
the
auctions
get
stuck
and
get
delayed.
That's
the
only
thing:
if
we
don't
do
anything,
if
we
act
too
hastily,
we
could
have
a
bug
or
worse
things
could
happen.
So
I
don't
think
this
is.
This
is
very
time
critical.
I
think
we
should
analyze
this
very
carefully
and
make
sure
that
we
do
the
right
thing.
G
Also,
maybe
looking
at
the
next
steps,
not
just
this-
this
one
fix,
but
also
how
do
we
then
patch
the
system
so
that
this
can't
happen
anymore
yeah?
We
already
have
a
short,
medium
and
long
term.
What
the
long
term
we're
going
to
look
for
later,
but
assured
the
medium
term,
discussion,
yeah,
but
bottom
line
is
we
should
take
our
time
to
do
things
right,
because
making
a
mistake
would
be
much
more
damaging
than
just
have
a
few
auctions
that
get
delayed.
I.
E
It
depends
on
it
depends
on
the
timing
of
things
of
surplus
coming
in
from
various
sources
like
other,
and
also
the
timing
of
of
debt
coming
off
of
the
sin
queue
or
in
from
other
sources.
So
it's
it's
not
even
like
guaranteed
like
you
could
sit
down
and
write
and
the
mastermind
I
can
block
all
the
flop
auctions.
It
just
depends
on
yeah
Tami
other
different
moving
parts
interact
and
you
might
be
able
to
block
some
of
them,
but
governance
can
always
defeat
you
in
the
end
right.
E
G
F
G
Really
good
the
first.
The
first
priority
should
be
to
try
and
configure
the
keepers
in
a
way
so
that
the
window
for
let's
call
it
sabotage
intentionally
delaying
these
auctions
that
that
windows
is
as
small
as
possible
and
then
potentially
there
won't
be
a
single
one
that
even
can
be
delayed.
So
I
think
if
that's
our
first
priority,
then,
and
then
there
is
no
issue
going
forward.
G
E
Yeah
I'd
say
you
know
by
next
week
sometime,
you
know,
maybe
we
should
just
wait
for
this.
You
know
coming
batch
of
flop
auctions.
That's
what
and
one
or
two
days
from
now
on
the
22nd
I
keep
forgetting
what
day
it
is
now
that
you
know
that
that'll
happen
and
then
kind
of
after
that's
done
we'll
sort
of
have
this.
Okay,
here's
all
the
debt
stuck!
You
know,
then.
Next
week
we
run
an
executive
to
unblock
that
and
send
it
back
to
flop
auctions.
A
Okay,
well,
that's
there's
some
things
to
be
absorbed
here
then.
So,
we'll
look
forward
to
the
explanation
in
the
forums.
I
think
that
will
I
believe
that
potentially
today's
executive
has
been
delayed
for
some
kind
of
consensus
to
be
reached.
It
feels
like
there's,
there's
no
fires
right
now.
So
what's
that,
let's
regroup
in
the
forum
thread
and
then
figure
out
what
the
see,
if
there's
any
edge
risks
that
we
didn't
identify
and
then
deal
with
it.
There
is
that,
okay
with
you
Mariano
that
sound
right,
I.
A
A
A
I
A
I
Actually
worked,
I
think,
surprisingly,
better
than
anyone
had
expected
one
was,
we
saw
I
think
a
fairly
diverse
range
of
participation,
so
we
saw
I
think
we
definitely
saw
multiple
bidders
and
then
secondly,
this
six
hour
waiting
period
didn't
appear
to
factor
in
much
of
a
discount
for
the
bidding
price
and
then
thirdly,
the
secondary
market
liquidity
also
didn't
really
seem
to
play,
be
much
of
a
disincentive
either
so
I
think
just
kind
of
very
problem.
Preliminary
conclusions
is
that
it
was
successful
for
what
we've
seen
so
far.
I.
A
C
A
A
A
D
Mean
I
can
I
can
ask
questions,
but
everyone
seems
pretty
exhausted,
I'm,
not
sure
it's
the
best
time,
just
in
general,
like
for
MKR
holders
like
what
do
we
need
to
know
exactly
like
what
parameters
are
changeable
by
governance?
At
what
point
should
we
be
thinking
about
emergency
shut
down
and
like
what
situations
is
that
applicable?
Can.
A
A
I
C
I
C
C
I
A
A
A
There's
some
hand
waving
this
here
that
what,
in
my
own
personal
opinion,
there's
some
hand
waving,
this
appears
I,
don't
think
that
we've
all
completely
internalized.
So
the
idea
is
that
you
shut
down,
and
then
you
start
up
shutting
down
I
think
those
mechanisms
are
understood.
Starting
back
up
again,
though,
I
have
no
idea
what
that
even
means.
So
that's
something
we
need
to
figure
out
as
well.
We
need
to
understand
well,
but
back
to
the
mechanisms.
A
We
also
need
to
understand,
like
literally,
what
are
these
steps
that
need
to
occur
in
and
what
order
and
how
does
communication
around
that
happen
and
the
as
I'm
drifting
a
bit,
but
though
there
there's
some
base
principles,
I
think
that
we
need
to
figure
it
out
and
I
start
working
our
way
back
up
again,
right
and
I.
Think
that,
maybe
might
say
what
we're
talking
about
here
is
the
thresholds.
What
what
I
mean,
what
situations
and
for
what
reasons
is:
emergency
shutdown,
considered
yeah.
D
A
B
A
I
I
think
I
think
I
think
that's
a
super
tricky
proposition
that
was
just
mentioned
cuz,
if
you're
trying
to
trigger
yes
before
some
sort
of
big
loss.
It's
about
to
happen,
I
mean
you
could
be
saving
one
stakeholder
in
the
system,
but
very
directly
at
the
expense
of
another
right
and
I.
Don't
think,
we've
clearly
established
the
lines
of
who
should
be
saved
and
who
should
be?
We
should
be
kind
of
the
opposite
right.
I
So
I
think
when
I
think
when
dealing
with
like
financial
base
thresholds
or
heuristics
I
think
it
becomes
super
tricky
as
a
as
a
separate
example
like
I
think
one
other
criteria
for
yes,
that
I've
heard
that
is
kind
of
just
a
counterpoint
to
yours
is
it
should
only
be
used
for
technical
issues
and
anything.
That's
kind
of
financial
related
or
the
protocol
is
operating
as
intended
does
not
necessarily
warrant
the
use
of
yes,
I'm,
not
saying
I
agree
with
that.
I'm
just
I'm,
just
saying
that
there's
like
a
super
wide
range
of
yeah.
B
B
This
is
this
is
what
the
problem
right.
Different
people
have
different
ideas
as
to
what
what
the
proper
criteria
are
right,
like
don't
you
say
some
people
think
it's
should
be
just
like.
If
it's
a
technical
issue,
we
need
to
it's
like
very,
very
bad
or,
if
like
or
if
it's
a
risk
of
like
government's
attack
or
something
that's
gonna,
drain
cholesterol
or
something
or
or
any
other
hand
you
have
like.
D
In
this
also
circles
back
to
the
PR
thing,
because
you
know
we
say
emergency
shutdown
is,
you
know
we
all
know
exactly,
but
the
what
we
do
in
the
worst-case
scenario.
But
we
don't
like
like
we're
clearly
asking.
We
still
have
a
lot
of
questions
and
if
we
have
questions
that
definitely
means
users
have
no
idea
what
that
means.
J
J
So
you
know
you
can
look
at
that
event
and
go
is
that
you
know
was
that
the
criterion
I'm
I
hear
cyrus
over
here,
basically
saying
well,
you
know
the
suggestion
is
buy
a
lot
of
people's
that
you
know.
The
only
thing
is
shut
down,
for
is
a
technical
issue.
Is
zero
auctions
bid
a
technical
issue,
I
think
a
lot
of
people
think
no
I
think
a
lot
of
your
vault
owners
are
like
hell,
yeah,
and
so
you
know
in
the
loosest
sense
they're.
J
You
know
if
that
was
on
it,
and
this
is
why
I
brought
this
up.
What
is
because
you,
if
you're,
if
makers
the
community
is
going
to
decide,
it's
only
gonna
be
technical
issues
that
we're
gonna
shut
this
down,
for
it
literally
means
that
everybody
is
gonna,
you
know
die
holders
will
get
crushed.
Maker
holders
will
get
crushed,
eat
holders
like
the
vault
holders
will
end
up
wherever
in
an
esse.
The
vault
owners
is
kind
of
being
kind
of
the
best
case
as
he
died.
J
Holders
is
just
getting
whipsawed
crazy
and
then
it
just
depends
on
how
much
loss
is
built
into
the
system.
You
know
already
before
IES
that
the
maker
holders
may
be
on
the
hook
for
because,
if
maker
kind
of
goes
to
zero
and
NES,
then
I
don't
know
how
make
your
holders
can
be
on
the
hook.
They
already
hooked
themselves
into
total
loss,
and
so
it's
a
real
question.
If
you
guys
are
can
es,
then
then
literally
your
vault
owners
and
die
holders
need
to
know.
J
For
your
other
stakeholders
here,
which
is
part
of
the
PR
problem,
is,
is
that
you
got
vote
owners
and
dye
people
here.
You
know
the
that
are
kind
of
all
over
the
map,
the
vault
holders.
Definitely
you
know
I
started
that
thread
just
so
that
some
angst
could
be
vented
in
a
productive
way
and
we
make
you
kind
of
whole
because
when
I
looked
at
the
numbers
I'm,
like
man,
make
your
8
a
heck
of
a
lot
of
money
here.
J
J
Uh-Uh
and
so
I
just
see
this
as
a
real
issue
that
we
need
to
solve
and
then
simultaneously
the
sed
shut
down.
You
know,
and
so
and
then
the
mechanics
of
all
that
and
we
shut
down
and
people
want
to
get
at
collateral.
Can
we
do
it
right
now
in
the
MCD
or
the
sed,
and
so
that's
kind
of
my
take
and
kind
of
why
I
rolled
on
this
was
like
it
really
looked
like
maker
holders.
J
You
know
what
I
saw
was
like
right
there,
if
you're
not
going
to
ESS
here,
I,
don't
know
when
you're
gonna
do
it
and
and
then
kind
of
everybody
like
ok,
we're
fixing
everything
and
we
come
back
and
now
we're
back
and
we
could
end
up
in
the
same
boat,
boat
again
and
I
generally
agree
if
you're
gonna.
Yes,
you
really
don't
want
to
do
it
in
the
worst
market
conditions
you'd
like
things
to
be
reasonably
stable,
but
it's
a
double-edged
sword.
J
You
know,
and
so
we
kind
of
have
to
decide
if
maker
holders
are
going
to
kind
of
die
on
the
sword
and
we're
not
going
to
es
it.
Unless
that's
a
technical
issue
or
something
else,
I
mean
it's
a
very
valid
and
real
discussion,
and
this
isn't
just
a
PR
optic
thing:
it's
got
to
be
decided
and
then
the
PR
has
got
to
go
on
it.
So
that's
my
take
on.
J
Mean
I
think
it's
appropriate
that
we
throw
this
up
for
the
entire
community
discussion,
not
just
maker
holders
but
vault
holders
as
well
and
I
owners,
but
in
some
ways
you
know
this
whole.
If
we
es
you
know
here's
what
happens
if
we
don't.
Yes,
here's
what
happens
you
know.
Literally,
some
scenarios
have
to
be
late,
real
scenarios
have
to
be
laid
out
and
we
can
take
the
last
event
as
the
real
scenario,
one
over
them
and
just
lay
it
out.
Go
what
do
you
guys
want
and
then,
but
that's
going
to
unleash
a
discussion?
B
It's
also
worth
mentioning
is
that,
like
any
like
decision,
we
tried
to
come
to
on
this
isn't
actually
like
binding
right
like
so,
especially
in
the
fact.
That's
any
may
go
order
with
enough
maker
or,
like
any
cup
like
syndicate,
make
holders
it
enough
maker
can
shut
down
the
system
at
any
point.
So
it's
difficult
to
say,
like
we
will
definitely
not
shut
down
in
this
situation,
because
some
make
a
holder
good,
disagree
and
shut
it
down
anyway,
right,
like
so
had.
A
K
We
we
think
are
really
important
to
shut
down
in
the
scenario
can
at
least
give
someone
who
is
burning
their
MKR
to
shut
down
a
little
bit
of
a
little
bit
of
certainty
that
they'll
get
their
mkr
back
in
a
redeploy,
because
the
governance
will
vote
to
mint
that
more
MKR,
whereas
if
you
don't
have
some
some
guidelines,
it's
a
very
scary
thing
to
do.
Yeah.
J
Yeah
and
it's
the
other
than
let's
see,
see
great
point
on
the
es,
because
I
considered
the
es
a
kinda
attack
vector
as
a
system,
grew
but
know
that
it's
shrinking
I
think
it's
unlikely,
but
the
idea
of
having
a
discussion
on
this
and
kind
of
coming
to
some
sort
of
consensus
and
dealing
this
privately
I
honestly,
don't
even
see
how
we
do
it.
So
this
is
something
that
could
be
an
ongoing
discussion
and
something
we
won't
solve
in
a
day.
A
It's
a
huge
discussion
that
also
I
think
that
we
can't
it's
very
important
to
understand.
Like
I
said,
there's
we
can
map
up,
it's
not
impossible
to
map
out
the
process
and
the
policies
and
the
social
norms
that
lead
us
to
an
emergency
at
them,
but
I
very
much
like
to
see
some
clear
understanding
of
what
re-initialization
of
the
system
looks
like
in
what
the
realistic
expectations
are
of
what
that
mechanism
is
and
what
the
community
response
to.
A
That
is
what
the
ecosystems
response,
and
that
is
because
I
personally
and
very
very
personally,
this
is
my
opinion.
Then
it's
naive
to
assume
that
okay,
we've
shut
down
the
system
and
then
next
week
we're
going
to
start
it
and
then
there
seems
to
be
fun.
We
need
to
understand
clearly
what
restarting
the
system
is
and
what
our
expectations
are
around.
That
and
the
community's
expectations
are
around
that
and
what
it
looks
like
in
its
chances
of
success
and
what
an
additional
work
and
overhead
it
will
type
require
see.
Agreed
initial
ends.
A
I
agree:
it's
a
difficult
question
because
we
have
to
make
guesses
about
what
the
future
would
look
like,
which
I
am
always
very
hesitant,
unto
you.
But
if
people
are
considering
the
parameters
and
the
reasoning
and
the
thresholds
first
shot
shutting
down
the
it
has
to
be
understood
whether
they're
doing
that
under
the
assumption
that
it
will
magically
just
come
back
next
week.
A
J
J
We
do
yes,
here's
what
happens
and
lay
out
some
scenarios
so
that
people
can
look
at
this
and
then
let
everybody
free-for-all
on
it
and,
like
I,
said
this
isn't
going
to
be
solved
in
a
day
or
maybe
a
week,
but
but
we
could
literally
be
here
within
a
week
kind
of
deciding.
Are
you
saying
this
or
no
and
so
I
think
it's
a
hard
problem
that
we
are
not
going
to
be
able
to
solve
quickly.
Unfortunately,.
A
J
Think
this
is
why
we
have
these
discussions
ahead.
You
know,
I
I
would
not
have
I
could
have
guessed,
but
I
would
not
have
thought
that
it
would
just
break
everything
else.
That's
out
there
in
the
defy
system,
and
so
that
takes
a
yes
even
more
off
the
table
so
to
speak,
and
so
implications
of
this
are
across
the
board.
But
this
is
why
we
have
to
have
this
discussion
and
we
need
people
like
you
guys
to
come
forward.
J
Go
these
are
the
implications
of
us
now
we
need
to
lay
out
these
scenarios
and
have
every
brain
on
that's
going.
This
is
why
we
really
don't
want
to
do
this,
because
most
of
us
probably
don't
have
a
real,
clear
understanding
of
the
total
implications
of
this
and
you
kind
of
need
all
hands
on
deck.
On
a
real
discussion
on
this,
with
real
scenarios.
A
So
there's
scenario
planning,
there's
the
threshold
and
to
initiate
the
thing
and
then
there's
the
actual
mechanism
involved
with
how
does
it
work
and
then
for
I
guess
is
what
are
the
recovery
plans
like
there's,
obviously
going
to
be
a
discontinuity
in
service
here,
and
so
how
does
that
service
get
resumed?
This
is
a
major
issue
in
usage
interests
as
well.
D
A
Yeah,
that's
that's
the
never
presents
situation
like
that's
that's
what
our
governor's
ecosystem
looks
like.
We
have
it's
evolving
all
the
time
and
we
have
to
step
outside
of
it
and
try
to
figure
out
what
it
is.
The
world
we
live
in
looks
like,
but
we
have
this
group
of
people
and
in
the
forum's
and
in
the
chat
that
are
a
very
sort
of
loose,
possibly
representative
democracy.
A
That
then,
like
is
obviously
not
civil
resistant,
but
we
have
lots
and
lots
and
lots
of
voices
that
are
that
are
doing
work
on
the
front
line,
setting
the
tone
of
the
conversation
and
processing
all
the
rest
of
it
and
I
think
that
we've
seen
historically
that
the
the
major
holders
the
voters,
follow
that
lead.
We
have
as
far
as
a
lab,
that's
I,
can't
I
shouldn't,
say
it
without
having
any
evidence
but
I'm
unfamiliar
with
many
any
examples
of
the
holders
coming
up
and
doing
something.
A
So
sorry,
I
missed
a
long
week.
So
the
point
of
saying
is
that
the
ecosystem
follows
the
or
the
community
of
holders
follows
the
tone
and
the
processes
and
the
initiatives
that
are
created
in
these
groups.
And
so
it's
not
a
wasted.
Effort
maker
meant
that
for
us
to
as
it
is
it
as
an
ecosystem
to
start
defining
these
these
thresholds
and
all
the
rest
of
it.
These
mechanisms.
B
A
A
The
risk
right
now
in
my
mind,
is
that
market
stabilized
crypto
goes
up,
and
then
we
don't
worry
about
this
stuff
anymore,
because
it's
painful
and
unpleasant
to
think
about,
and
we
have
to
kind
of
force
our
way
through
that
mental
block
and
continue
to
get
a
plan
in
place,
because
it's
naive
to
expect
that
unpleasantness
will
occur
again.
We
need
to
be
prepared.
One.
B
A
We'll
be
able
to
get
some
understanding
as
well,
once
we
begin
talking
and
that
there's
another
there's
another
thread
in
happening,
which
is
what
I
why
I
was
confused
and
we
started
this
conversation.
But
obviously
there's
there's
discussion
in
the
forum
about
the
sed,
shut
down
right
and
so
there's
going
to
be
some
interesting
things
to
learn
from
that
mechanism,
which
might
help
us
inform
about
mental
models
for
the
MCD
situation.
A
Yeah
make
aramis
ahead
of
me
again,
so
that
was
a
segue
potentially
to
a
CD
shut
down
I'm.
Having
some
concerns
about
this
call,
though,
because
people
are
dropping
off
rapidly
and
so
I'm
wondering
if
eeeh
the
conversation
might
be
winding
down
or
not
I'm
happy
to
stick
around
and
continue
to
to
discuss
them
it
would.
It
would
be
nice
long
to
come
out
of
this
in
my
tote
as
well
to
come
up
with
this
of
this
conversation
with
at
least
some
action
items
like
okay,
we've
identified
those
four
points
that
I've
listed
out.
A
F
I
have
a
suggestion,
and
maybe
it's
a
refrain,
but
before
I
take
away
I
see
like
the
at
least
the
technical
parts
of
like
emerging
such
a
being
like
Shirley
and
K,
are
holders
on
the
foundation,
but
I
think
it
still
makes
sense.
Given
there's
85
community
that,
like
a
members
of
the
other,
defy
companies
or
organizations
or
communities,
kind
of
press,
the
foundation
to
actually
get
quietiy,
and
so
I
would
almost
say
that,
like
in
our
threads,
we
have
a
lot
of
people
who
are
from
other
protocols.
F
But
I
would
imagine
that,
like
if
you
take
those
like
for
so
stabs
or
bullet
points
and
put
in
a
to
presentation,
maybe
there's
just
like
a
room
for
a
consortium
of
like
a
handful
of
people
from
each
of
the
protocols.
Whoever
wants
it
sitting
like
me
and
then
they
kind
of
and
maybe
make
a
community
/
takes
in
that,
and
then
everyone
kind
of
presses
upon
foundation
to
make
those
things
clear.
F
Cuz
that,
from
my
understanding
this
conversation,
you
know
we
can
lay
out
as
many
thresholds
as
we
want,
but
builds
up
to
the
foundation
and
up
to
MKR
holders.
Unless
I'm
misunderstanding
the
situation,
and
so
my
takeaway
would
be
like
if
there
are
two
or
three
people
on
this
call
and
the
community
to
kind.
F
A
I
wouldn't
mind
expanding
the
scope
of
it,
because
I
think
you've
hit
the
nail
on
the
head
lines
on
something
it
was
been
bothering
me,
so
this
group
here
is
talking
about
potential
stakeholders
what
their
potential
needs
might
be
and
how
they
might
potentially
be
affected,
but
it
probably
would
be
a
great
idea
just
to
talk
to
them
and
find
out
right
Michael.
What
do
the
dye
holders
think?
What
are
the
vault
owners
think
of
their
thresholds
on
what
is
the
defy
space?
A
H
Yeah
expending
even
like
money
on
the
point
that
I
think
Richard,
which
I
just
mentioned
there.
It
would
be
worse
even
actually
talking
to
you
to
those
songs
to
those
people
across
the
echo
system.
The
other
protocols
to
ask
him
about
what,
in
terms
of
like
the
ERISA
plans,
because
those
key
bark
definitely
join
people
all
Saiyans
other
than
having
my
plan.
Also
people
are
around
their
community.
So
on
there
a
lot
of
like
the
responsiveness.
F
So
to
that
point,
I
hate
to
suggest
something
in
kind
of
back
away,
but
I
think
that's
something
that,
like
other
people
in
the
forum's
I'm
strong
Latinos
in
the
thread
that
I
would
one
partake
in
those
forum
threads,
but
also
I,
probably
volunteer
and
raised
my
hand
to
you
know
alongside
a
couple
other
people.
If
there
is
like
an
authoritative
way
to
reach
out
to
them
and
say,
hey
we're
having
this
thread,
would
you
want
to
partake
in
a
consortium
because
I
think
that's
well?
Hopefully
not.
You
know
too
much
time.
H
And
in
the
recency
of
you
know
and
I
guess,
the
recency
of
the
crisis
is
also
a
good
point
month
to
to
lose
because
saying
for
us
the
same
way
that
probably
like
in
the
least
time.
You
know,
like
bull
market
statement,
didn't
beautiful
lot
about
this.
They
might
also
like
not
paying
too
much
attention
whether
they
were
that
she
had
actually
or
risk
that
happening
and
ever
since,
in
our
she
kind
of
tells
me
that
we
would
listen
to
participate.
A
All
right
we're
heading
dangerously
into
awkward
silence.
Charity
I'll
try
to
wait
it
out.
So
let's
make
sure
that
this,
like
the
momentum,
does
continue
so
rich,
feel
free
to
reach
out
to
me
here
long
and
we
can
help
you
with
any
questions
and
maybe
even
reiterate
some
of
the
main
points
I
feel
like
there
are
three
or
four
different
parallel
tracks.
We
can
initiate
here
figuring
out
how,
when
why
and
who
would
be
super
relevant
when
it
comes
to
discussing
this
issue
and
then
getting
some
additional
clarity,
so
we're
prepared
for
the
next
time.
A
Going
to
be
a
community
led
initiative,
the
community
needs
to
decide
right,
like
the
foundation
doesn't
make
this
decision,
so
the
community
is
to
decide
and
create
a
platform
for
the
rest
of
the
ecosystem
to
understand
what
is
going
to
happen
to
help
inform
the
holders,
so
they
are
able
to
take
appropriate
action
when,
when
the
needs
arise,
there's
anything
we
can
do
to
help
out.
We
will
be
at
your
disposal
rich
and
also
there's
parallel
tracks
internally,
so
we're
and
we're
tightening
up
documentation
we're
releasing
some
information
soon
that
just
hears
mechanically.
A
What
it
looks
like
these
are
the
buttons
I
need
to
press.
This
is
the
order
in
which
it
needs
to
happen.
So
once
we
have
that
clarity
for
their
community
to
work
with
it'll
be
far
easier
to
overlay
or
alter
it
based
on
the
requirements
of
governance
and
communication
and
additional
stakeholders
that
have
been
identified,
then
we
can
use
that
to
entering,
because
one
of
the
issues
I've
seen
with
this
conversation
in
the
past
is
that
we're
trying
to
figure
out
how
we
had
we
bite
onto
this
thing.
A
So
we
can
even
get
started
with
a
real
conversation,
so
we
have
philosophy
and
we
have
implementation.
We
have
communication,
but
one
of
those
is
just
mechanical
implementation
and
I
think
that's
probably
a
good
launching
off
point
or
they
said
we'll
help
out.
Once
the
community
understands
here's
the
ABCD
of
the
steps
involved,
then
we
can
start
modifying
and/or
internalizing
the
implications
of
these
stunts.
H
Yeah,
like
in
terms
you
know
like
going
to
practical
aspect
of
potentially
those
discussions,
would
be,
and
I
think
all
almost
make
sense
to
have
think
a
little
bit
of
like
idea
maker
meander
around
designing
scenarios
that
actually
put
you
into
the
lives
of
a
real
people
like
real
person
on
us
and
then
and
then
moving
from
those
scenarios
into
each
and
kind
of
like
shreeka.
Without
the
effects
on
the
people,
cuz
I
feel
like
at
least
one
category
would
be
the
direct
engage.
H
You
could
direct
stakeholders
and
engage
with
make
I
like
about
all
this
and
such
and
then
their
second,
a
secondary
to
that,
like
this,
in
errors
were
actually
trickles
down
to
the
people
that
are
not
don't,
engage
at
all
with
maker
directly,
but
more
indirectly,
through
those
platforms.
Putting
like
a
few
number
of
scenarios
that
actually
benefits
it's
a
pretty
good
statically
for
a
conversation
with
this
makes
the
reopen
makes
it
real
get
in.
A
Use
cases
yeah
yeah,
who
are
super
useful
for
this,
to
figure
out
who
are
the
demographics
of
the
effect
and
then
it
would
also
help
us
to
identify
which,
which
community
ecosystem
actors
need
to
be.
You
know
brought
to
bear
because
we
just
talked
about
PR
and
like
if
this
is
a
thing.
The
next
time
that
this
discussion
has
to
happen
in
earnest
communication
is
going
to
be
tremendously
important
too
so
who's
going
to
be
out
there
communicating
these
issues
to
the
ecosystem
as
well,
and
it's
Hargett
and
coordinated.
A
All
right,
I'm
wondering
does
anybody?
Have
we
talked
about
this?
There's
no
standing
questions
or
people
still
digesting
I'm
happy
to
hang
out
of
bits.
If
there's
other
questions
that
haven't
been
addressed,
that
people
would
like
to
squeeze
in
under
the
wire,
you
can
do
that
as
well,
but
the
people
in
this
room
we
were
losing
viewers
and
rapidly
so
obviously
there's
another
Friday
and
pressure
is
to
coming
to
Bergen.
A
A
A
H
A
Yeah
I
got
sentimental
last
call,
I,
believe
and
I'll
do
it
again.
The
intention
was
to
maintain
open
lines
of
communication
and
but
I
can't
overstate
how
valuable
the
input
from
from
this
community
has
been
in
informing
our
decisions.
Then
we
came
out
of
black
third
week
of
Black
Thursday,
far
stronger
than
we
could
have
possibly
been
without
the
level
of
interaction
we've
seen
in
the
forums
and
in
this
chat.
A
C
Make
oh
one
point
one
thing
and
regarding
the
SCD
you
know
no
one
ago
to
and
do
it
but
looks
like
it's
looking
like
the
polling
is
saying
to
forgive
stability
fees
in
a
CD,
so
I'm
wondering
if
we
need
to
what's
up
what
the
priority
is
on
lowering
the
debt
ceiling
for
SCD
in
case.
That
is
the
outcome
so
that
more
people
aren't
just
minting
in
sed.
I
C
C
Okay,
so
it's
not
a
huge
prior
year,
and
now
we
can
still
we
because
I
think
that
like
polling
is
also
saying
people
want
to
shut
down
within
the
months
and
we,
oh
that's,
obviously
has
to
go
to
unchain
pool
I
guess
to
see.
If
that
is
what
we
want
to
do,
but
yeah
we
have
a
little
bit
of
time
and
we
don't
to
worry
too
much
about
it.
Then
yeah
I,
don't
think
it's
an
issue
anymore.
A
Alright
I'm
gonna
make
the
call
that
thanks
already
for
joining
us
again,
thanks
for
the
various
offers
of
help
rich
I
give
you
following
up
with
you
to
make
good
on
that
and
let's
this
continue.
The
thread
about
emergency
shut
down
the
threats
in
the
forum.
So
we
understand
what
it
is
we're
talking
about,
and
we
have
a
plan
for
the
next
time
that
the
specter
gets
raged.
Alright,
thanks,
I
would
see
you
next
week.