►
From YouTube: Governance and Risk | Ep. 164
Description
Agenda:
Introduction
@LongForWisdom : Hosting, Introduction, Agenda.
@Davidutro : Slides
Governance Round-Up
Poll + Executive Status - @LongForWisdom
MIPs Update - @blimpa
Forum at a Glance - @gov-comms-core-unit
Selected Updates / Discussions
This week we’ll be discussing delegate compensation, a topic of some discussion over the past week. Here are a few threads for background reading:
[Signal Request] Should we trial Delegate Compensation as described in MIP61 over 3 months?: https://forum.makerdao.com/t/signal-request-should-we-trial-delegate-compensation-as-described-in-mip61-over-3-months/10978
Issues with our governance process and delegate compensation: https://forum.makerdao.com/t/issues-with-our-governance-process-and-delegate-compensation/11088
[Signal Request] Should we increase Maximum Delegate Compensation as described in MIP61 to 144k DAI for the initial 3 month delegate compensation trial?: https://forum.makerdao.com/t/signal-request-should-we-increase-maximum-delegate-compensation-as-described-in-mip61-to-144k-dai-for-the-initial-3-month-delegate-compensation-trial/11093
Delegate Debates #1: Delegate Compensation: https://forum.makerdao.com/t/delegate-debates-1-delegate-compensation/10267
Full Info: https://forum.makerdao.com/t/agenda-discussion-scientific-governance-and-risk-164-thursday-october-21-17-00-utc/11110
A
Cool,
so
we
had
one
new
poll
got
last
week.
I
believe
we
had
one
poll
passed
last
week,
at
least,
which
was
the
open
market
committee
dc
iam
that
sealing
instant
asset
access,
module,
parameter
changes,
and
this
is
a
set
of
parameter
changes
to
allow
more
data
to
be
minted
in
what
is
starting
to
look
like
a
sort
of
bullish
market
environment.
B
A
In
terms
of
executives,
we
didn't
have
an
executive.
Last
week
we
will
have
an
executive
proposal
up
tomorrow,
which
should
include
onboarding
rap
staked
eth.
The
lighter
version
at
an
initial
debt
ceiling
of
five
million
increasing
the
g
uni
v3.usdc
does
heating
to
50
million
and
including
those
dcim
changes
that
we
pulled
on
this
week,
which
also
includes
an
increase
up
to
4.5
billion
debt
ceiling
for
wptc.
C
D
D
So
out
of
the
six
stratification
polls,
there
are
two
that
are
at
the
moment
not
passing
maker
lapse
and
decode
fixed
rate.
The
ladder
has
suffered
another
weighty
movement
of
votes,
this
time
towards
abstain
following
some
regulatory
concerns
that
were
raised
and
discussed
on
the
forum,
I
think-
and
it's
now
under
the
minimum
positive
participation
of
10
000
mkr.
D
So
yeah,
thank
you.
It's
pretty
much
the
same
old
list.
I've
been
sharing
for
the
last
couple
of
weeks,
so
we
won't
spend
much
time
here,
I'm
currently
getting
in
touch
with
authors,
to
make
sure
everything's
okay,
before
the
frozen
period
kicks
in.
I
know
that
travian
from
even
5
is
working
on
some
modifications
for
his
proposal
set
next
slide.
D
A
F
E
Let's
begin
with
the
week's
top
announcement
so
rest
in
peace
to
rocket
chat
and
make
way
to
the
official
maker
dial
discord.
Server
that
has
launched
starting
october
31st
of
2021
rocket
chat
will
be
completely
shut
down
and
discord
will
take
over
as
the
community's
main
platform
for
our
chat
check
out
the
post.
Also
to
see
how
you
can
receive
your
free
nft.
E
All
right
so
next
up,
following
up
on
ideas
presented
in
their
previous
real
world
finance
report,
some
ventures
post,
an
update
on
the
real
real
world
finance
core
unit
to
use
strategic
value
for
work
prioritization
and
to
no
longer
focus
on
the
number
of
mip
six
onboarded.
The
team
also
presents
new
objectives
and
long
term
goals,
which
is
awesome
to
see.
E
Next
up,
another
update
to
the
governance
portal
being
pm
from
the
duck's
core
unit
posted
an
update
for
the
newest
version,
which
includes
improved
verifiability
and
test
net
migration.
Details
for
details,
tab
for
spells
improved
link
resources
and
a
colorful
book
break
breakdown.
Progress
bar
moving
on
to
the
top
three
discussions
so
delegate
compensation
continues
to
be
a
controversial
and
critical
topic
for
discussion
astronaut
this
posts,
a
thread
addressing
some
issues
with
the
governance
process
being
followed
for
delegate
compensation.
E
Astro
believes
that
the
mip
61
process
should
be
followed
and
pulled
on
chain,
along
with
any
successful
signal.
Requests.
Astro
believes
that
delegates
should
abstain
from
polls
and
votes
involving
delegate
compensation
and,
finally,
the
post
contains
some
thoughts
for
long-term
solutions,
so
check
it
out.
E
Next
up
sasa
believes
there
should
be
more
utility
benefits
to
the
mkr
token
to
help
make
adele
benefit
from
new
and
upcoming
d5
developments
and
increase
our
dominance
in
the
lending
market.
Sasa
presents
an
idea
for
discount
stability
fees
for
volt
owners
who
hold
mkr.
This
can
help
incentivize
asset
managers
to
own
and
store
more
mkr,
so
check
it
out
and
leave
your
feedback.
E
Finally,
there's
been
many
cases
lately
where
popular
vault
types
reach
their
temporary
depth
ceilings
which
sometimes
stops
the
issuance
of
new
depth.
Makerburn
is
concerned
that
these
avoidable
pauses
and
die
issuance
is
pushing
potential
users
to
other
similar
services
like
ave
or
compound
makerburn,
provides
some
suggestions
in
the
post
and
seeks
community
feedback
on
the
topic.
E
And
finally,
subventures
has
been
diligently
pushing
the
idea
to
set
pstum
fees
to
zero
percent,
which
is
also
suggested
in
the
case
for
clean
money
post.
If
their
signal
were
to
pass
sebastian,
provides
many
long-term
pros
and
cons
and
discusses
how
setting
psm
fees
to
zero
percent
would
anchor
the
perception
that
one
die
equals
one
dollar.
E
A
So
yeah
moving
on,
as
mentioned
earlier,
we're
gonna
sort
of
hopefully
start
a
discussion
about
delegates
and
delegate
compensation.
So
we
are
a
little
thin
on
the
ground
because
some
people
are
in
lisbon
right.
So
I
don't
think
we're
expecting
to
come
out
of
this
discussion
with
any
sort
of
decisions.
I
guess
it's
more
just
sort
of
a
chance
to
to
discuss
right
so
I'll,
come
over
the
floor
and
invite
anyone
to
sort
of
chime
in
if
they,
what
otherwise
I'll
do
a
kind
of
introduction.
A
Okay
yeah,
so
I
think,
like
my
current
position,
is
that
we're
seeing
that
so
we
started
with
an
initial
group
of
recognized
delegates,
but
for
those
that
don't
know,
recognize
delegates
delegates
that
are
required
to
or
sort
of
tracked
for
their
voting
and
like
communication
with
the
community
right.
So
we
start
off
with
a
few
of
these
recognized
circuits,
some
of
which
are
here
most
of
whom
you
know
we
kind
of
saw
in
the
last
few
weeks.
G
Yeah,
so
I
fully
agree
with
this,
and
I'm
going
to
also
talk
about
that
a
bit
later,
and
basically
the
most
important
way
to
think
of
this
is
that
the
delegates
is
really
in
terms
of
how
we
can
structure
the
the
governance
bureaucracy.
The
delegates
are
really
the
main
thing
that
we
can
use
to
kind
of
be
the
counterbalance
to
the
sort
of
the
more
and
the
more
sort
of
specific
parts
of
the
workforce
right
that
actually
do
the
work
that
actually
are
in
the
trenches
on
a
day-to-day
basis.
G
Right
now,
they
have
quite
a
bit
they're,
quite
empowered,
and
they
have
a
lot
of
resources
and
and
they're
achieving
a
lot
of
things,
but
there's
also
this
disconnect,
essentially
between
mkr
holders
and
and
the
co-units,
and
particularly
the
budgets,
for
instance,
right
and
and
one
of
the
ways
that
I
mean.
One
thing
is
the
whole
voting
situation
with,
like
voter
apathy
and,
of
course,
like
delegates
being
being
a
way
for
voters
to
organize.
G
But
I
also
think
a
really
important
fact
of
this:
is
this
sort
of
the
more
personal
element
to
it,
where
you
can
really
like
the
big
difference
between
a
bunch
of
voters
and
then
a
delegate
with
a
whole
with
all
those
voters.
Delegating
specifically
a
professional
delegate
right,
like
a
even
a
professional
full-time,
well-paid
delegate,
is
that
they
end
up
achieving
the
same
type
of
sort
of
political
and
systemic
clout
that
the
facilitators
and
the
co-units
have
right.
G
Maybe
most
importantly,
negotiation
and
that
whole
the
whole
aspect
of
sort
of
resource
allocation
and
political
allocation
of
of
yeah,
of
like
the
entire,
with
the
way
that
that
things
are
done
throughout
the
the
the
bureaucracy
and
my
my
conclusion
is
actually
like.
So
I
think
that
the
like,
I
think,
long,
is
really
sort
of
has
the
right
instinct
in
terms
of
okay,
like
what
the
right
I
mean.
Are
we
really
do
you
really
think
we
can?
G
I
don't
think
that's
enough.
In
fact,
it's
still
pretty
far
from
it
because
I
think
basically,
what
we
have
to
aim
for
is
something
in
like
a
type
of
delegate.
That
looks
something
like
a
facilitator
in
terms
of
their
political
clout
in
the
bureaucracy.
Essentially,
so
that
would
also
lead
me
towards
and
in
terms
of
their
responsibility
in
terms
of
their
personal
commitment
and
and
sort
of,
I
like
some
of
their,
let's
call
it
the
passion
and
and
the
ability
to
fight
in
the
bureaucracy
right.
G
G
Like
the
delegates
we
have
today,
all
people
that
have
you
know
they're,
like
the
the
die-hard
believers
in
the
project
that
have
been
with
the
project
for
a
very
long
time
right
and-
and
we
need
to
actually
get
to
a
point
where
we
have
the
ability
to
go
out
there
and
do
the
same
thing
that
we're
seeing
others
trying
to
do
to
us
right.
We
can
poach
delegates
from
other
projects.
We
can
hire
professionals
that
have
the
skill
sets
that
we're
looking
for
in
delegates.
G
So
yeah,
I
think,
for
now.
I
think
this
proposal
is-
and
I
really
like
the
idea
of
moving
ahead
quickly
with
a
trial,
but
I'm
I'm
going
to
push
for
something
even
more
comprehensive
and
and
even
things
like
job
security,
I'm
thinking
of
various
ways
that
we
can
provide
that
as
well.
But
I
think
that
that
we
need
to
take
like,
like
all
of
the
stuff
that
I'm
I'm
playing
around
with
it
needs
to
be
done.
G
H
F
A
So
my
hope
is
that,
like
once,
we
start
like
sort
of
paying
these
rates,
then
the
people
who
sort
of
you
know
are
the
sort
of
people
you're
describing
right,
who
are
sort
of
putting
in
sort
of
part-time
and
don't
have
sort
of
you
know.
Good
qualifications
will
sort
of
be
gradually
replaced
by
the
people
that
do
right
because
they're
more
attractive
to
make
holders
as
targets
for
like
delegation
right
because
they
have
these
skills
and
this
sort
of
level
of
commitment.
A
So
I
think
it's
less
important
to
sort
of
define
or
it's
not
sort
of
necessary
to
define
like
a
strict
list
of
requirements
or
a
strict.
You
know,
sort
of
schedule
or
expectation
rate,
because
make
holders
should
manage
that
themselves.
Right
as
as
more
delegates
come
on,
like
the
higher
quality
ones
should
agree
more
maker.
I
So
it's
like
an
advisory
core
unit
that
could
potentially
talk
to
different
core
units.
Ask
for
reports,
ask
what
they're
doing
with
the
the
budget,
what
they're
doing
with
initiatives
and
keeping
them
accountable.
So
that's
something
that
I've
been
thinking
on
and
fcs
has
been
thinking
on
lately
as
to
how
to
improve
governance.
I
So
it's
to
add
this.
These
workers
that
are
a
bit
more
more
neutral
and
that
they
work
directly
for
the
delegates
so
that
they
can
work
more
on
on
steering
the
vision
according
to
the
mkr
holders,
and
not
so
much
into
doing
the
quote:
unquote:
dirty
work
of
actually
changing
the
core
units
to
make
sure
that
the
quality
is
there.
J
I
agree
with
one
I
think.
The
issue
that
I
have
with
this
proposal
is
just
that
the
role
of
delegate
seems
really
murky
to
me.
I've
seen
people
say
that
the
role
the
delegate
is
to
interface
with,
like
external
regulators,
that's
not
something
that
I
would
expect
of
a
delegate
and
if
it
is
part
of
their
like
responsibility,
I
think
that
should
be
documented
and
then
there
should
be
like
kpis
and
stuff
for
a
role
like
that.
I
H
I
was
just
gonna
say
that
I
agree
with
the
points
that
juan
and
katie
made.
I
feel
like
at
this
point.
We
need
to
take
a
step
back
and
just
truly
assess
like.
Why
did
we
implement
delegates
in
the
first
place
like
to
pass
votes
or
to
have
them
actually
act
as
executives?
You
know
going
through
every
single
map,
every
single
signal
request
and
actually
try
and
be
some
sort
of
you
know
advisor
and
neutral
party,
and
then
you
know
fully
define
like
what
should
be
within
like
a
delegate's
responsibility.
H
H
B
B
The
lobbying
government
agencies
perhaps
could
or
should
be
a
core
unit,
but
the
thing
is,
I
think
we
have
a
chicken
and
egg
problem
here
that
we
we
don't
we
we
know
we
need
delegates
just
to
get
votes
passed
in
a
timely
fashion,
but
we
don't
know
what
other
responsibilities
delegates
should
have,
and
I
I
don't
think
we
can
know
that
until
we
you
know,
we
give
delegates
a
chance
to
find
out
what
their
job
is.
And
so
you
know
we
can.
B
We
can
look
to
other
organizations,
and
you
know
imagine
that
they're
kind
of
like
a
board
of
directors
or
kind
of
like
an
executive,
but
our
organization
is
unique
and
we
don't
really
know
you
know
spontaneously
what
what
delegates
will
will
find
that
they're
able
to
do
that.
We
can't
predict-
and
I
I
just
I
would
suggest-
that
we
need
to
allow
that
to
that
exploration,
to
have
to
happen,
give
them
a
chance
to
to
kind
of
develop.
B
B
F
Want
to
heavily
push
against
that.
I
definitely
think
you
should
segregate
roles
and
some
things
should
be
core
units,
and
some
things
should
be
up
to
delegates
and
just
letting
this
delegate
thing
you
know
kind
of
expand
into
a
vacuum
and
kind
of
absorb
a
bunch
of
stuff.
It's
going
to
be
really
hard
to
splice
that
out
later,
and
I
I
kind
of
have
this
fear
that
that's
just
going
to
turn
into
a
mess.
F
So
I
would
rather
do
the
exact
kind
of
polar
opposite
and
just
clearly
define
what
a
delegate,
what
delegates
do
and
what
delegates
do
not
do
so,
for
example,
regulatory
outreach.
I
do
not
think
a
delegate
should
be
doing
that
period,
not
like
that
they
can,
or
maybe
some
do
and
some
don't
like.
I
don't
think
any
delegate
should
be
doing
that.
That's
not
part
of
the
role.
C
Well,
this
conversation
started
as
a
discussion
about
how
to
get
more
delegates,
and
you
know
the
the
simple
solutions
is
like
you
know:
throw
more
money
at
them,
but
you
know,
paper.
Imperium
did
put
up
a
poll
to
request
some
funds,
for,
among
other
things,
like
legal
representation
by
by
being
a
recognized
delegate,
you're
putting
your
name
out
there,
you're
not
in
a
non
and-
and
you
do
become
the
target
and
we're
in
a
gray
area
here
like
it
almost
seems
like.
C
F
H
Back
on
that,
a
little
bit
I
mean
looking
at
like
some
of
the
bigger
dows
like
look
at
unit,
swap
they
have
delegates
from
all
like
the
major
top
universities
in
the
us
like,
including
harvard
law
school
like
I
just
and
just
taking
a
step
back
even
further,
like
I
just
don't
think
it's
pr
for
the
government
to
go
after
every
single
dow
at
once
in
the
us,
and
you
know
we're
a
larger
protocol.
But
we're
not.
C
H
F
So
so,
where
does
this
idea
that
delegates
are
somehow
more
exposed
to
legal
risk
than
other
members
of
the
dao
kind
of
come
from
I'm
kind
of
curious?
Is
there
anything
that
in
kind
of
common
law
that
would
point
to
that
yeah?
I
can
speak
to
that.
So
the
the
big
fear
is
that
anybody
in
the
us
that
is
looking
to
either
file
a
claim
against.
Let's
say
they:
they
think
they
are
wrong
by
the
dow
or,
I
think,
there's
some
criminal
activities
taking
place
by
the
doubt.
F
H
F
G
I
really
don't
think
it's
it's
I
mean
guys.
We
don't
have
the
expertise
to
discuss
something
like
this.
I
mean.
I
think
that
what's
kind
of
happening
now
is
the
conversation
is
going
in
this
like
very
specific
direction,
which
I
think
is
is
that's
actually,
you
know
like
that's
exactly
the
kind
of
stuff
I
want
to
talk
about
about
today.
Right
because,
like
it's
really
pointless
to
talk
about
legal
risks,
I
mean,
and
then
this
point
was
already
sort
of
made
right
like
we're
talking
about
these
very
specific
things.
G
But
what's
what's
really
the
problem?
Is
we
don't
know
the
big
picture
right?
We
don't
even
know
what
we
want
out
of
the
delegates
and
the
reality
is
the
reason
why
we
don't
really
know
what
we
want
are.
The
delegates
is
because
we
don't
really
know
what
we
want
out
of
anything
right.
We're
missing
this
like
overall
big
picture,
and
that's
exactly
what
I
mean.
That's
that's
one
of
the
things
I've
been.
G
G
G
G
I
mean
I
mean,
and
then
the
discussion
we're
having
now,
I
think
is
I
mean
the
kind
of
things
that
are
being
considered.
A
lot
of
this
stuff
is
incredibly
useful
right.
This
incredibly
important
exercise
to
go
through
these
things,
but
it's
also
it's
also
just
kind
of
like
a
fun
like
or
fun
like
like
interesting
observation
that
in
it
it's
hard
and
sort
of
a
down
right
like
to
to
to
maintain
focus
and
then
it's
easy
to
then
sort
of
go
down
various
rabbit
holes
which
yeah
like
it's
hard
to
that.
G
It's
a
hard
challenge
to
overcome
right,
because
we
need
a
sort
of
decentralized
approach
to
to
this.
But
at
the
same
time
we
need
a
sort
of
you
know.
We
need
to
actually
get
results
like
we
need
to
come.
We
need
to.
We
need
to
do
something
about
delegates
and
do
something
about
governance
in
general.
C
However,
I
think
we're
missing
a
bit
of
the
kind
of
crutch
of
the
proposal
here
by
kind
of
like
overlooking
the
the
minimums,
if
that
makes
sense
right,
because
because
what
we're
saying
with
this,
like
in
terms
of
what
a
delegate
is
and
and
what
they'd
have
to
do,
to
get
paid
under
what
we're
kind
of
putting
forward
here,
is
they
basically
have
to
acquire
some
amount
of
delegated
mkr
in
theory
that
could
be
coming
from
them
right?
We
don't
necessarily
know
if
that's
the
case
or
not,
they
have
to.
C
I
think
there's
a
part
of
the
argument,
that's
kind
of
being
overlooked,
which
is
like
simply
having
these
public
figures
who
have
a
platform
or
communicating
with
their
votes,
who
are
saying
things
like
that.
That
is
inherently
provides
some
value
to
the
dow
right.
It
has
some
some
value
to
our
governance
system.
C
So,
even
if
you
don't
agree
on
all
the
things
that
delegate
can
or
should
be
doing,
I
think
we
can
kind
of
focus
back
on
like
all
right.
Well,
how
much
is
this
actually
providing
to
governance?
How
much
is
this
worth
it
for
us?
Because
from
from
the
government
side,
we
we
do
gain
a
lot
from
having
recognized
delegates
in
terms
of
consensus,
building
and
and
compromise
and
and
understanding
why
things
don't
don't
pass.
So
there
is
inherently
some
value
there
and
I
think
we
could
probably
be
a
bit
more
productive.
A
You
know
layering
on
this
other
stuff
right
like
what
else
do
we
need
them
to
do,
but
we
can't
I
mean
we
can
but
it's
difficult
to
sort
of
spin
that
up
from
nothing,
we
don't
have
any
delegates
or
have
very
few
delegates
right,
because
we
sort
of
don't
have
that
input.
I
guess
from
mkr
holders
right,
it's
just
oh.
We
have
it,
but
like
it's
not
in
a
position
where
I
can
sort
of
vote
and
sort
of
communicate
and
actually
take
part
in
the
discussion.
I
guess.
J
A
They're,
like
yeah,
like
pens
that
they're
essentially
for,
is,
I
think,
for
responsibilities
right.
They
need
to
show
up,
they
need
to
write
a
platform
they
need
to
like
host.
Well,
we
host
the
meeting
and
they
need
to
show
up
and
answer
questions
for
like
an
hour
or
half
an
hour.
I
think
it
was
they
need
to
vote
consistently
and
they
need
to
communicate
why
they're
voting
consistently
in
order
to
get
paid
like
like?
A
A
So
it's
not
like
we're
instantly
paying
people
like
the
full
amount,
but
we're
paying
them
like
we
kind
of
want
to
just
be
front
loaded
because
it
attracts
people
more
and
sort
of
covers
for
when
they're
just
getting
started.
They
don't
have
a
lot
of
mkr
delegated,
which
is
why
it's
exponential
or
the
other
way
around.
Why
is
it
yeah
logarithmic.
A
J
So
it
seems
like,
from
the
conversation
the
biggest
issue
that
people
have
is
that
there
isn't
like
a
like
a
scope
of
work
for
a
delegate,
but
it
sounds
like
you
guys
actually
do
have
one.
So
if
we
can
like
come
to
an
understanding
that
that's
the
scope
of
work,
nothing
beyond
that,
then
it
makes
a
lot
more
sense
to
me.
But
there's
been
a
lot
of
like
operational
type
things
that
people
have
mentioned.
That
would
be
like
a
delegate's
responsibility.
J
I
think
it's
just
really
crucial
to
come
up
with,
like,
like
a
very
specific,
like
role
of
what
the
delegate
is
and
what
they're
responsible
for
and
if
it's
just
that
narrow
scope
of
work.
That's
great,
but
that's
been.
My
like
whole
issue
is
that
there's
been
a
lot
of
other
things
like
thrown
out
there
that
fall
under
the
delegate
umbrella
that
don't
really
make
sense
to
me.
J
I
Okay,
I
was
gonna,
say
katie
that
the
documentation-
or
what's
long
mentioned
it's
already
there,
so
it's
relatively
simple.
I
think
that
we
should
focus
on.
Maybe
this
is
a
really
bad
idea,
so
if
someone
wants
to
weigh
in
but
we
should
focus
on
all
the
the
other
elements,
that
roon
was
mentioning.
That
should
be
in
place
for
this
method,
to
work
and
to
make
sure
that
everything
is
connecting
properly.
A
So
I
want
to
speak
briefly
in
the
movie
and
a
little
bit
like
to
the
point
of
sort
of
defining
these
strict
criterias
right
like
the.
If
there's
very
little,
we
can
do
to
sort
of
prevent
some
care
holders
from
delegating
to
a
delegates.
So,
like
any
list
of
requirements,
we
set
out
it's
sort
of
difficult
to
enforce,
right,
like
say,
you're
like
paying
a
delegate
and
then
they
stop
fulfilling
the
requirements
for
whatever
reason
like
not
a
lot
but
like
they
just
don't
mean
something
right
like
how.
A
How
do
you
then
stop
paying
them
right,
because,
as
long
as
big
holders
don't
object
too
strenuously
they're
gonna,
keep
delegating
to
them
like
they're
gonna
need
to
pass
some
votes
to
sort
of
to
sort
of
cancel
whatever
payment
stream
is,
is
going
on
right,
like
it's
kind
of
very
difficult
to
define
strictly
because
it's
not
up
to
like
the
dow.
I
guess
where
the
delegated
maker
goes.
It's
up
to
individual
make
holders.
G
G
There's
like
this,
like
we
don't
like,
I
mean
because
in
theory
it
should
be
mkr
holders
that
are
in
charge
and
then
they
have
votes
and
they
say
this
is
what
we're
looking
for
delegates
and
then
delegates
show
up
and
then
they
get
delegated
too
right.
If,
if
you
know
if,
if
this
disconnect
wasn't
what
you
know,
didn't
exist
right
and
and
that's
I
think
what
really
I
mean.
G
The
thing
is
that
that
no
matter
what
we
try
to
to
do,
basically,
unless
we
get
we,
we
figure
out
a
way
to
sort
of
bridge
that
gap.
Then
it's
not
going
to
work
right.
I
mean,
because
basically,
people
just
aren't
delegating
right
now
and
generally
there
is.
There
is
a
sort
of
frustration
of
that
disconnect
that
exists,
even
when
you
have
things
like
delegation
network,
all
right,
I'll
I'll
yield
to
a
mega
man.
A
K
K
Make
your
own
care,
you
really
want
to
do
it
maker,
because
what
you
want
to
do
is
kind
of
punish
the
people
who
don't
participate
and
reward
the
ones
that
do,
and
the
whole
point
is,
is
that
you
want
the
maker
that's
participating
to
perform.
So
basically,
you
kind
of
want
to
align
the
reward
and
punishment
incentives
to
make
that
happen
right
and
the
idea
of
doing
it
with
delegates
it's
kind
of
convoluted.
We
look
at
the
results
that
we
have
right
now
right.
K
We
have
two
delegates
that
themselves
can
pretty
much
pass
any
green
light.
You
know
I'm
saying
it's
like
maker
or
you
know
long.
You
know
the
numbers
on
these
things
like
three
thousand
to
do
this.
Ten
thousand.
To
do
this
right,
we
got
two
guys,
basically
with
more
than
ten
thousand,
that
can
pretty
much
drop
whatever
they
want
through
the
polls.
They
can't
do
executives,
but
together
two
maybe
three
could
do
an
executive.
I
I
don't
know
you
know
when
I
kind
of
look
at
the
result.
K
I
don't
think
we're
getting
what
we
need
and
when
I
think
about
being
a
delegate
man
to
look
at
the
system
and
interact
in
the
forums
and
deal
with
cus.
You
know
it's
very
daunting
time,
wise
and-
and
I
can't
think
about
how
to
do
that
in
a
way
that
just
makes
sense
for
me
from
a
time
perspective
and
actually
achieving
anything,
and
so
it
just
becomes
this
whole
messy
proposition
of
like
what's
the
actual
goal.
K
You
know
a
vc
has
thirty
fifty
eighty
thousand
maker,
you
know
that's
the
reality
of
the
tokenomics
and
the
problem
is
that
these
people,
these
whales,
basically
aren't
performing
in
governance,
and
when
you
look
at
the
way
the
tokenomics
are
spread.
You
know
it's
like
what
80
of
the
maker
is
in
the
top
100
wallets
and
then
15
is
in
the
next
500
and
then
you've
got
5
in
the
last
thousands,
and
so
the
idea
here
is
you
need
to
reach
these
people.
K
I
have
no
clue
how
to
reach
these
people,
except
to
give
them
incentives
to
play
in
this
governance,
game
and
divest
them
and
do
something.
Creative
right
and
I
want
to
write
something,
honest
and
do
work
on
this,
but
oh,
my
time
is
so
hammered.
I
got
four
things
I
want
to
work
on.
You
know.
When
am
I
going
to
get
anything
for
doing?
K
I
think
half
the
stuff
I'm
going
to
present
the
governance
is
just
going
to
shoot
down
because
they're
not
going
to
like
it,
and
so
I
have
this
really
mixed
bag
issue
like
how
do
I
do
work
effectively
and
sit
in
this
place,
and
I'm
talking
to
lawyers
trying
to
figure
out.
Do
I
if
I
actually
get
a
trunca
maker
that
I
vote
here,
do
I
have
legal
liability?
K
You
know
I'm
putting
money
and
time
into
this
in
a
way
that
I
could
just
ask
by
not
being
a
delegate
and
just
work
for
some
cus
and
still
get
and
probably
do
get
more
done
than
I
would
ever
do
dealing
with
as
a
delegate.
It's
just
I
don't
know.
The
whole
thing
is
very
daunting
to
me
in
a
lot
of
ways
and
I
don't
have
any
good
answers
other
than
we
should
really
look
at
the
problem
and
rethink
the
goals
and
we
can
use
the
tools
that
we
have
to
come
forward
with
something.
K
Maybe
that
works
better.
But
but
I
don't,
I
think
that
sounds
bad
to
everybody,
and
and
so
I'm
I'm
working
on
my
own
version
and
maybe
I'll
get
it
out
at
some
point.
But
but
I
think
these
are
the
real
issues
is
that
we
can't
really
frame
anything
because
we
really
don't
know
what
the
problem
is,
and
we
don't
have
a
good
approach
towards
how
to
measure
the
goal
achievement
and
to
apply
solutions
to
do
that
and
see
how
it
works.
K
We've
just
tried
one
and
it
doesn't
look
like
it
had
it's
improved
performance,
but
we
have
to
still
have
the
staggered
maker
ability
and
delegates
really
can't
get.
I
don't
see
any
way
that
I'm
going
to
get
a
2
000
maker.
I
don't
know
I
mean
who
do
I
have
to
talk
to
and
there's
no
place
where
people
who
want
a
delegate
can
actually
interact
with
the
delegates
themselves
and
go
hey.
I
wanna
I'm
chopping
around.
You
know,
maybe
you
can
be
my
delegates
like.
K
D
Yeah,
I
I
agree
with
most
of
what
mikhail
maine
said,
and
I
understand
that,
let's
move
aside
the
fact
that
delegates
are
here
mainly
to
pass
executives,
that
was
the
initial
problem.
But
when
you
are
delegate-
and
you
are
like
just
a
supervisor
or
someone
a
bit
remote
from
the
organization,
you
have
actually
only
one
job.
D
But
I
don't
think
that's
the
goal
of
the
delegates,
because
that's
a
full-time
job
and
they
wouldn't
get
nothing
done.
I
mean
I
work
with
mark
for
more
than
a
week
now
on
how
to
use
finance
to
put
more
strategic
value
instead
of
maker,
because
we
are
spending
a
lot
of
cash.
We
don't
know
exactly
why
or
what
are
the
results?
A
So
maybe
comment
briefly
on,
I
guess
some
of
the
initial
issues
we
had
right
that
make
a
man
mentioned.
I'm
saying
those
are
important
as
well
in
terms
of
making
one's
points.
You
know
the
researchers
just
sort
of
try
and
address
the
problem
of
bypassing
executives
right,
getting
more
voting
and
all
this
stuff
right.
A
The
kind
of
reason
that,
when
we
have
that
problem,
we
turn
to
delegation
is
because
that's
the
like
lowest
hanging
fruit
for
fixing
this
problem
right
in
that
you
know.
Yes,
you
know
like
at
some
point:
we're
definitely
gonna
want
to
try
and
reach
like
the
sort
of
like
the
smaller,
like
25
percent
of
makeup
holders,
right
or
small
amount
of
holders
that
are
holding
the
bottom
25.
A
A
But
the
problem
now
is
on
the
other
side
and
that
like
when
they
kind
of
get
around
to
actually
being
able
to
delegate
there
aren't
going
to
be
any
delegates.
So
I
gotta
tell
you
too,
because
you
know
it's:
it's
not
a
great
deal
as
I
make
my
mistake
right,
so
the
kind
so
we're
sort
of
trying
to
work
on
this
problem.
A
Okay,
you
know
we
can
sort
of
try
and
figure
out
some
sort
of
fancy
economics
thing
or,
like
you
know,
sort
of
spend
time
sort
of
working
out
exactly
what
we
wanted
to
do,
but,
like
that's
going
to
solve
the
problem
in
like
the
nether,
which
is
just
that
we
need
people
to
vote
right
and
yeah.
Let's
say
next
made
a
comment
about
like
sort
of
them
spending
in
the
sidebar
right
like
we're
talking
so
144k
die
per
year.
A
Right,
like
we're
talking
about,
say,
say,
10
delegates,
that's,
like
1.44
million
die
right,
we're
spending
what
like
34
million
on
cus
right
now
like
compared
to
like,
like
the
cost
benefit
like
on
on.
This,
is
not
like
it's
like
really
weighted
towards
benefit
right
like
we.
We
can
gain
so
much
if
we
have
this
and
it's
not
that
expensive
relative
to
everything
else
we're
doing
like
I,
I
just
sort
of
don't
understand.
A
H
A
No,
so
so,
there's
a
couple
problems,
stopping
the
releases
that
are
getting
currently
right.
The
main
one
is
that
the
custody
platforms
need
to
integrate
with
the
delegate
contracts,
because
the
vcs
will
only
interact
with
contracts
through
custody
platforms,
because
it
gives
them
an
extra
layer
of
defense
against,
like
things
breaking
right.
Actually,
port
is
here
for
you.
You
can
answer
this
question.
F
Hey
no
worries
now
you're
doing
a
great
job.
I've
enjoyed
the
conversation
so
thanks.
Everyone
yeah,
the
bottom
line
is
there's
some
technical
difficulties
behind
it
that
we
are
currently
working
with
our
custodial
platform
to
fix,
which
for
us
will
be
done
in
the
next
week
or
two.
I
can't
speak
to
the
other
vcs,
but
what
we're
going
to
do
is
kind
of
publish
to
them
what
we
did
with
the
folks
that
we
work
with,
hopefully
that'll
enable
a
bit
more
delegation
going
forward.
H
Yeah,
that's
great
to
hear
porter
now.
Definitely
you
know
if
we
couldn't
get
some
sort
of
list
together
of
you
know
other
large
holders
or
vcs
not
sure
who
you've
been
in
contact
with
long
but
understanding
like
where
they
are
in
the
process
and
what
the
reasons
actually
are
between
them
not
having
delegated,
I
think
would
be
pretty
important
if
it's
just
technical,
you
know
we
could
see
that
coming
soon.
If
it's
because
of
lack
of
delegates,
it'd
be
good
to
understand
that
as
well.
A
Right,
like
we're,
like
I
feel
like
available,
has
a
good
understanding
of
what
is
causing
us
problems,
which
is
kind
of
why
we
propose
this
because
it
solves
them,
but
I'm
not
in
a
position
where
I
can
just
sort
of
say
like
okay,
this
bc
said
this
is
the
problem
and
they're
going
to
do
this
right,
because
this
is
really
how
it
works.
Right,
like
I.
H
A
Okay,
the
three
largest
we
see
is
funds
that
I
believe
exists,
though
it's
hard
to
talk
right,
because
there's
more
coming
in
and
going
out
and
stuff
they're
all
required,
like
all
require
this
technical
thing
like
there
are
a
few
smaller
ones
that
have
done
it
themselves,
they're
willing
to
do
without
custody
platforms.
But,
generally
speaking,
that's
not
the
case.
G
A
G
A
B
Yeah
this
one
thing
I
wanted
to
point
out
is
like
that:
we've
always
had
the
the
difficulty
that
we
don't
know
like
if
a
vote
doesn't
pass.
We
don't
know
why,
and
you
know
there
was
this.
You
know
you
can
put
a
comment
in
an
executive
now
which
is
kind
of
cool,
but
just
being
able
to
know
why
why
a
vote
doesn't
pass
like
that
could
be
worth
a
lot
to.
You
know
help
the
organization
steer
in
a
better
way
just
wanted
to
mention
that
point.
G
That's
not
a
small
sort
of
extra
little
thing.
That
is
like
this
central
question
of
the
entire
project.
This,
like
that
issue,
you're
you're,
pointing
at
there
is
like
the
fundamental
factor.
That's
going
to
decide
whether
maker
will
succeed
or
fail
right
like
if
there
is
not
a
connection
between
voting,
behavior
and
and
then
sort
of
the
actual.
G
G
Like
the
governance
process
doesn't
actually
work
right,
it's
like
it's
just
doing
random
things
trying
to
see
if
randomly
gets
past
or
not.
So
that
is
really
it's
such
a
fundamental
thing
right,
this
sort
of
the
communication
around.
Why
do
you
vote
and
what's
being
voted
for,
and
why
do
you
vote
this
way?
G
K
K
Really
yeah
yeah.
I
want
to
echo
that,
because
you
know
the
way
the
executive
works,
is
you
just
vote?
Yes
for
a
particular
executive,
the
idea
that
someone
is
voting
yes
on
an
old
executive,
you
get
no
new
information
from
them.
There
is
no
no
vote
for
them
right
and
so
there's
that
part
of
the
process
with
the
executive
immediately
leaves
out
information
because
you
don't
know,
did
the
person
who
voted
yes
for
that
old
executive?
K
Are
they
just
not
participating,
or
are
they
actually
a
no
to
the
current
executive
right
polling's
a
little
different,
but
that's
kind
of
one
of
the
key
issues
is
we're
trying
to
get
information
and
the
way
the
mechanism
is
set
up.
We
can't
get
information
on
nodes
to
people
on
executives,
right
and
so
that's
kind
of
a
key
issue
is:
how
do
we
get
the
feedback
when
the
mechanics
of
the
system
are
such
that
it's
not
designed
to
be
able
to
give
us
that
feedback,
particularly
on
the
executives.
G
G
G
Yeah,
so
I
think
that's
basically
it
right
in
that,
and
I
think
actually
that's
this
sort
of.
I
mean
that's
the
same
kind
of
thing.
That's
the
same!
We're
seeing
that
sort
of
this
the
disconnect
in
the
same
way,
essentially
right
that
that
is
like
we
just
discussed
delegation
but
like
sort
of
the
entire
framing
of
the
discussion,
is
not
even
like
the
starting
point
isn't
even
like.
G
We
need
to
sort
of
consider
that
as
well
right,
because
the
thing
is
someone
who
I
mean
from
the
perspective
of
coordinates,
the
role
of
a
delegate
is
to
pass
executive
votes
right,
like
to
sort
of,
like
you
know,
pass
the
executive
order
to
the
coin.
That's
one
of
the
past,
essentially
right
or
like
I
mean,
are
not
even
that's
even
how
it
was
discussed
to
some
extent
right.
Oh
yeah,
they're
they're
there
to
sort
of
rubber
stamp
the
votes.
I
mean
now,
I'm
being
a
little
spicier
right.
Of
course.
That's
that's!
G
Well,
I
mean,
but
the
thing
is
I
mean
ultimately
that's
where
the
incentives
leads
us
to
right.
So
so
we
have
to
really
think
and
that's
sort
of
the
thing
about.
We
have
to
think
extremely
carefully
about
the
overall
structure
of
governance
and
especially
sort
of
what
are
people's
incentives
right.
What
are,
actually
you
know,
who's
participating
for
what
reason
I
mean
a
delegate
that
participates
in
discussion
about
delegate
conversation.
G
Their
objective
is,
to
I
mean
maximize
their
conversation
right
if
you're,
looking
at
and
you're
looking
at
what
their
incentive
is-
and
this
is
kind
of
this
is
I
mean
this-
is
the
fundamental
literally
the
fundamental
thing
right,
because
the
question
is
ultimately
all
of
this
stuff
right.
What
what
is
it
all
about
right?
G
What
are
even
our
objectives
so
yeah
with
that
I'd
like
to
get
into
sharing
my
slides
here
and
then
going
through
it
and
because
basically,
this
is
like
this
fundament
like
this
is
sort
of
fundamental
question,
is
what
I
wanna.
You
know
what
I'll
really
be
focusing
on.
Oh
next
couple:
well
I
mean
not
just
over
the
next
couple
weeks
I
mean,
I
think
this
is.
G
I
mean
it's
sort
of
what's
already
happening
right,
but
but
this
the
overall
thing
is
the
governance
earthquake,
essentially
right
this,
like
period
of
very
constant
change
and
constant
evolution
of
how
governance
works
and
the
question
of
like
how
do
we
get
to
a
stable
equilibrium
where
things
actually
just
run
and
everybody's
happy
with
how
the
process
works
right.
Everyone's
doing
their
thing
and
everyone's
satisfied
with
the
overall
picture.
A
Maybe
before
we
dive
into
that,
we
can
just
get
us
some
quick
lights
of
time
check
really
like
how
long
do
you
think
this
is
like
this
presentation
is
going
to
take
because
it
is,
as
you
said,
it
is
late
for
for
people,
so
I
kind
of
want
to
make
sure
people
are
prepared
before
they
sort
of
dive.
In
so.
G
I
think
I
can
do
it
in
20
minutes
unless
people
want
to
discuss
things
on
the
way.
The
thing
is:
it's:
it's
we're
I'm
getting
I'm
getting
into
really
the
the
spiciest
stuff
of
all
of
major
government
right,
like
the
the
real
big
questions
that
some
of
you
maybe
not
have
considered
those
as
the
real
big
questions.
Others
consider
them
as
sort
of
the
elephant
in
the
room
right
that
you
might
even
be
afraid
to
discuss
in
a
sense
right.
So
I
think
I
mean
I
think
we
could.
We
could
basically
yeah
there's
a.
A
So
my
question,
then,
is:
do
you
want
to
separate
this
from
the
governance
call
and
we
can
sort
of
end
this
recording
and
potentially
start
another
one,
which
is
just
that,
because
I
kind
of
don't
want
to
yeah
yeah
like
sort
of
force
it?
Okay?
So
maybe
okay,
so
we'll
call
this
here
and
then
I
guess
we're
going
to
spin
up
another
recording
and
then
record
it
separately.
A
Okay,
so
yeah!
Thank
you,
everyone
who
who
showed
up
for
this
call.
I
know
we're
all
another
ground
because
of
lisbon,
but
yeah
very
much
appreciate
everyone
showing
up
if
you
stick
around
in
a
moment
we'll
get
into
roon
stuff,
but
we'll
pause,
the
recording
here
and
yeah
that's
into
another
meeting
thanks
everyone
for
joining.