►
Description
SharePoint Dev Weekly is a weekly video chat where Vesa and typically Waldek are talking about the latest news and topics around the SharePoint dev area.
This time they did not have a visitor and that's most likely the reason why the discussion went so long and got side ways so many times... Discussion topic was really around the differences on building a product vs executing a project and how that impacts on the execution with numerous real life examples on both sides.
Episode is also available as a podcast from https://spdevweekly.podbean.com.
Got feedback or input? - Don't hesitate to let us know.
If you want your article or sample mentioned, please use the #SPDevWeekly hashtag on Twitter for letting us know.
This video was recorded on Monday 23rd of September 2019.
You can find more details on the weekly summary from the SharePoint Dev blog from http://aka.ms/spdev-blog.
More details on the SharePoint Dev community available from http://aka.ms/sppnp.
A
B
Yeah
exactly
right,
so
we
had
a
different
idea
for
basically
to
reiterate
something
that
we
touched
on
a
few
times
already
in
the
past.
I
was
like
you
know
what
like
it
would
be
good
to
talk
more
more
about
that,
because
we
realized
that
time
time
over
time.
It
comes
up
and
then
not
always
it's
clear
like
what
was
the
difference
between
one
and
another
yeah.
B
B
A
A
But
it's
it's
it's
an
interesting
theme,
at
least
for
me,
but
I've
seen
this
in
the
past
as
well.
So
when
I
first
was
doing
customer
projects,
we
did
a
large
customer
projects
actually
really
interesting
customer
project.
It
was
a
travel
booking
solution,
which
was
we
were
developing
that
already
in
2001,
think
about
the
timeline
for
Nokia
originally
and
then
few
other
customers,
where
the
the
point
was
that
we
could
actually
go
to
a
extranet
website
and
then
buy
your
flights
and
hotels
and
everything
else,
and
this
is
2001.
A
So
it
was
way
ahead
of
its
time.
Unfortunately,
the
the
company
who
actually
created
that
for
most
unable
to
really
make
success
out
of
that
that
product,
which
is
a
pity
because
it
was
way
ahead
of
his
time.
It
was
a
really
cool
setup.
It
was
actually
developed
in
a
way
sort
of
spending
two
minutes
on
this,
but
it
was
really
cool.
A
So
you
could
actually
install
the
solution
to
your
intranet
as
a
running
intranet
solution,
and
so
you
didn't
actually
go
to
any
any
and
sign
into
another
service,
because
that
was
too
complex
at
the
time.
But
you
had
the
internal
identities
and
all
of
that
running
in
your
internet.
Then,
when
you
click
a
button,
it
actually
then
communicated
using
really
weird
technologies,
because
the
technology
wasn't
really
there
there
on
the
services
of
the
travel
booking
system.
A
B
So
I
mean
I
might
not
have
the
expertise,
but
I
do
have
do
have
experience,
yeah
I've
been
building
websites
and
web
apps
since
forever.
I
recall
a
building.
My
first,
where
I
didn't
even
have
a
PC
I,
would
have
to
so
I
had
Amiga
at
home,
where
I
could
emulate
us,
but
I
couldn't
see
this
so
I
remember
when
in
the
US
I
would
type
HTML
and
to
be
able
to
see
that
I
had
to
go
to
the
neighbor,
who
had
Windows,
95,
PC
and
I
could
see
that
in
IE
3
1
right.
B
B
Right
I
mean,
and
my
first
so
I
think
it's
like
the
first
few
years
that
I
was
working
with
SharePoint
I
I
would
build
exclusively
internet
sites
exclusively
I.
Think
I
I
build
my
first
internet
in
2010/11
only
like
until
then
it's
all
Internet,
because
I
had
so
much
expertise
with
HTML
and
and
the
web
that
that
was
some
of
the
area
exactly
and
then
kind
of
like
there
was
no
no
more
work
around
there.
So
I
was
like
okay,
there
is
an
internet,
it's
like
internet,
that's
funny!
B
A
B
Exactly
exactly
right,
because,
like
even
internally,
companies
offer
want
to
have
these
tailored
highly
controlled
experience,
as
opposed
to
you
know
what
we
want
to
use
whatever
is
available
out
of
the
most
want
to
make
the
best
use
of
our
investments,
as
opposed
to
have
the
thing
just
shine
and
express
our
identity.
Yeah.
A
So
yeah,
that's
company,
but
oh
boy,
the
times
have
changed
if
you
think
about
even
the
global
internet
timeframe
and
those
projects
were
up
to
4.5
million
euros
or
six
million
dollars.
When
you
work
with
the
global
customers
and
then
you
print
the
Internet's
and
all
of
that
and
how
does
those
kind
of
protest
yeah.
A
A
B
A
And
plus
the
time
at
that,
at
the
time
it
was
always
the
we
kind
of
know,
invest
five
hundred
thousand
rafflesia
typical
sized
projects
which
I
I
used
to
actually
do
five
thousand
four
hundred
thousand
or
whatever
the
projects.
And
then
we
kind
of
reinvest
this
in
three
years
when
they
say
intranet
this
out
of
the
dates,
and
so
it
was
kind
of
an
the
the
way
of
thinking
on
the
investments
was
completely
different.
A
He
always
had
a
budget
a
certain
level,
and
you
did
that
and
then
we
were
running
with
that
one
for
a
certain
while
and
then
a
revamp,
maybe
to
another
technology
who
knows
so
exactly
and
but
now
when
we
are
in
a
cloud
platform
and
it
changes
the
whole
way
of
thinking.
Because
again
it's
more
iterative
way
of
doing
development
make
it.
Actually.
A
Maybe
the
money
is
exactly
the
same,
but
it's
being
approached
in
a
different
way
and
it's
more
on,
let's
say,
gaining
immediate
value
out
of
the
investments
in
a
smaller
portions
which
actually
makes
a
lot
of
sense
rather
than
having
five
hundred
thousand
or
or
whatever
my
my
largest
project
was
32
million.
But
that
was
together
with
Windows
client
side
refresh
and
all
of
that.
But
then
there
was
like
16
comm
sites
and
a
lot
of
interesting.
B
A
B
B
If
product
is
that
ongoing
thing,
that
you
can
always
improve
and
evolve
to
other
things,
and
there
is
never
end
to
it
and
I
think
that
that's
the
it
took
me
quite
some
time
when
I
switch
companies
and
and
also
Rawls
is
basically
to
realize
that
that
there's
always
more
work
left
to
be
done
than
hours.
In
a
day
you
will
have,
and
if
you
do
things
right,
you
will
always
have
more
ideas.
You
will
always
have
new
experiments.
B
You
will
always
have
things
that
you've
heard
that
you
want
to
try
that
that
you're
interested
in
would
would
it
work.
So
as
such,
you
have
a
never
ending
things
list
of
things
that
you
could
do
and
if
you
don't
watch
out
for
you'll,
get
really
stressed
out
yeah,
because
because
that
list
will
never
be
happy
if
you
used
to
be
a
person
like
in
book,
zero
empty
to-do
list
that
will
never
happen
in
product.
Never
ever.
A
You
might
say
that
that
was
a
project
as
well,
because
you
it
had
a
timeline
and
release
timeframe,
but
still
use
things
to
keep
on
evolving
on
top
of
the
existing
product
as
well,
and
what
the
customers
there's
always
the
sign-off
and
then
it's
like
okay,
bye-bye
I'm
sure
there's
there
might
be
a
maintenance
job
and
all
of
that,
but
that's
a
separate
discussion
and
the
project
is
anyway
signed
off
by
the
customer
at
certain
point
to
be.
But
now
it's
delivered
now
it's
now.
It's
I
accept
this
and
I'm
good
to
go
right.
Yeah.
B
Yeah
but
I
guess
like
like
even
in
in
the
past
right,
even
if
we
get
back
to
reality
of
yours
back
where
her
plane
was
shipped
every
three
three
years
like
regularly,
we
would
hear
that
building
the
product
actually
would
be
just
a
little
little
part,
like
only
maybe
even
few
months
of
the
three-year
o
window,
so
dough
we
want
and
then
the
moment
engineers
were
done
with
what
was
supposed
to
be
the
next
version
shared
like
they
would.
They
would
not
sit
still
for
two
years.
B
That
would
either
go
build
other
things
or
they
would
still
start
building
and
planning
scoping
diversion
after
that
that
would
be
shipped
over
six
years.
Yeah,
absolutely
imagine
that
right.
Imagine
like
in
today's
reality.
How
can
you
predict
what,
hopefully
neither
six
years?
Yes
sure
at
times
it's
really
hard
to
fathom
like
whoa?
Would
you
need
in
a
year
because
technology
goes
so
fast
and
nowadays,
like
back
in
the
days
they
were
like
Sherman
was
it
was
this
big
thing
and
competitors
would
probably
were
probably
comparable
like
fair,
big
size
solutions,
yeah.
A
B
Days
if
the
marketing
team
needs
to
space
to
collaborate
taking
Luke
as
well,
I,
don't
know
Dropbox
Trello,
they
can
combine,
maybe
maximum,
like
whatever
works
for
them.
So
so
they
don't
always
Luke
comparison
ad
your
size
and
future
breath
as
opposed
to
the
ease
of
use.
And
how
long
does
it
take
to
set
it
because
time
to
market
is
a
key,
not
the
what
what
you
have
to
offer
sure.
A
Sure
man
and
that's
actually
really
huge,
let's
say
chains
in
the
IT
world
as
well,
when
I
think
of
it
in
a
past,
IT
was
sort
really
to
controlling
these
things
and
kind
of
a
IT
was
even
the
one
who
was
leading
the
projects
and
funding
the
projects
and
that
that
has
changed
in
the
last
decade
to
be
business
driven
way
of
thinking.
So
it's
it's
more
about
really
truly
the
value,
it's
not
about
any
more
ie
controlling
and
restricting
what
can
be
done.
A
It
has
to
help
the
business
to
deliver
the
value
for
the
project,
which
is
really
interesting
as
well.
Now
one
of
the
examples
were
to
talk
about
on
the
past
one
of
the
things
which
always
bothered
me
as
say
when
I
was
doing
this
project
and
still
kind
of
its
mind
blowing
in
their
hideout
ID.
Actually
works
is
that
in
these
customer
projects
and
it
this
is
still
true
customer,
always
signs
off
when
the
delivery
is
done.
A
But
it's
kind
of
let's
say
it's
interesting
I'm,
trying
to
figure
out
how
the
way
that's
in
a
way,
I
can't
use
curse
words,
it's
it's
kind
of
messed
up
when
I
think
of
the
fact
that
customers
are
buying
expertise
from
this
IT
companies
because
they
don't
have
it,
but
then
at
the
same
time,
for
the
delivery,
they
need
to
sign
it
off.
As
in
no,
we
actually
got
what
we
request,
that
from
a
functionality
perspective,
but
also
technically.
This
is
the
quality
of
what
we
were
requesting
and
aiming
to
do
so.
B
But
it's
the
same
way.
You
do
exactly
the
same
when
you
let
somebody
build
a
house?
Yes,
yes,
you
pay
absolute.
You
are
the
owner
of
the
house,
which
is
you
kind
of
feel
like
you,
don't
it's
weird,
but
that's
the
way
it
works
right
like
you
become
the
owner,
so
you
have
to
say
like
I'm.
Okay
with
that
and
I
think
it's
more
easy
than
ever
either
that's
with
a
house
in
a
way,
it's
more
obvious,
dad
I
am
NOT.
An
expert
I
cannot
judge
whether
the
walls
are
straight
and
whether
everything
stands
right.
A
B
A
B
Your
internet
brakes,
like
nobody,
dies
yeah,
so
I,
guess
that
the
whole
feel
fully
hopefully-
and
that's
even
interesting
thing,
because
a
while
back
I
had
an
interesting
discussion
with
somebody
whose
family
member
was
a
real
architect
in
construction
yeah
and
the
person
like
they
had
to
go
through.
So
many
assessments,
certification
to
be
able
to
call
themself
that
way
and
that
person
found
it
hilarious
that
we
in
the
IT
call
ourself
architects.
Yes,
so.
A
B
No
credentials
to
pick
it
up
with
I,
just
like
how
are
you
equipped
to
assess
things
that
that
is
the
right
weight
to
do
right
and
there's
who
verifies
that,
whatever
you
says
is,
is
okay
right?
None
like
I
like
a
doctor
or
an
architect
in
construction
like
everybody
can
just
start
building
sites,
and
maybe
night
out
of
10
10
10
times
it
will
be
fine
right,
sure
sure.
A
But
that's
really,
if
you
think
about
the
IT,
we
in
Microsoft
the
world.
We
tried
this
with
the
most
of
certified
people
which,
with
the
master
certification
program
right,
we
actually
came
up
with
this
highly
expensive
three
weeks
on
site
or
five
weeks
on
site,
depending
on
a
program
Microsoft
trained,
and
if
you
pass
the
program,
you
can
call
yourself
as
a
Microsoft
Certified
Master,
which,
as
the
title
sounds
so
weird,
but
anyway
call
me
master,
but
anyway,
that
even
that
program
was
forced
to
shut
down
because
of
the
IT
is
evolving
so
fast.
A
Well,
there
was
obviously
numerous
other
reasons
as
well,
but
but
because
of
the
the
IT
is
forming,
and
technology
is
evolving.
So
fast,
there's
no
way
for
these
people
to
keep
up
with
the
technology
unless
they're
willing
to
pay
a
significant
amount
of
money
but
and-
and
the
question
is
maybe
on.
Maybe
we
should
have
that
kind
of
a
program
still
because
right
now
we
don't
actually
have
any
certification
or
credentials
so
that
you
would
be
able
to
call
yourself,
I,
say
well,
I'm,
the
guy
who
can
actually
approve
this
stuff
or
not.
I,
know.
B
A
A
And
then
they
need
it
to
actually
because
it
will
say
publicly
it's
in
the
stock
market,
so
they
needed
to
actually
officially
sign
the
investments
off
in
their
quarterly
release
because
it
was
such
a
big.
It
was
a
large
company.
So
it
wasn't
that
really
a
massive
huge
deal,
but
it's
like
it's
one
of
those
things
for
well.
Maybe
we
should
have
some
sort
of
a
way
of
having
the
right
credentials
from
a
day
one
rather
than
but
there
is
no
really
truly
trusted
way
of
doing
this
right.
Yeah.
B
Yeah
and
I
guess
so,
and
there
will
be
the
last
coming
that
I'm
making
it
and
then
let's
get
back
to
our
about
the
promise
because,
like
in
the
end
of
the
day
and
that's
something
that
I
realized
only
after
I,
basically
move
out
of
the
press
space
is
that
from
the
customer
point
of
view.
In
the
end,
every
vendor
will
say:
they're
and
they're
the
best
and
and
the
customer
is
not
equipped
to
assess
that
the
customer,
like
okay,
how
do
I
tell
different
because
they
have
exams?
A
Yes,
it's
not
black
and
white,
because
you
can,
as
long
as
you
get
a
certain
amount
of
certificates
in
your
company,
you
will
get
a
quote
certified
certification.
Now
it
does
not
mean
that
any
of
those
people
who
actually
have
the
certificate
will
be
delivering
the
projects
with
you're,
paying
for
which
is
really.
B
B
It's
really
hard
to
make
it
foolproof
in
a
way,
but
it's
so
important
to
get
the
end
result
right.
Yes,
now
with
that,
let's
flip
flip
back
to
the
discussion
that
we
had
had
had
originally
because,
like
one
thing
that
I
recall
back
from
my
days
in
projects
was
coming
across
issues
in
product.
If
something
didn't
work
as
expected,
or
something
worked
correctly
or
there
were
ducks
missing
and
oftentimes
I
was
younger
and
and
more
more
eager
to
do
things
and
more
legs
like
and
I
would
like
so
often
has
like
Microsoft
you're,
so
big.
B
B
B
A
It's
one
of
those
things
about
their
same
if
you
think
about
the
product
price
of
a
sharepoint,
there's
multiple,
multiple
ways
of
using
the
product.
There's
this
multiple
interest
of
using
the
purse,
there's
multiple
experiences
and
it's
being
bent
by
the
partners
and
and
and
customers
in
a
different
ways
which
you
couldn't
even
believe.
But
it's
one
of
those
things
where
where,
even
though
we
have
up
120
thousand
140,000
employees,
I
don't
have
any
clue.
A
We
need
to
go
live
so
that
we
don't
lose
the
customers
to
the
let's
say
other
competitors
and
with
whatever
we
have,
and
then
we
evolve
and
the
version
and
the
product
afterwards
as
as
based
on
the
customer
feedback,
and
that's
actually
really
much.
Why
we
do
this
minimal,
Viable
Product
releases,
and
this
really
comes
down
on
the
factors?
A
Let's
say
quite
recent
example
is
the
baits
layouts,
no
page
templates
its
templates
in
motivates
templates
and
which
basically
are
something
which
you
can
save
any
any
page
you
can
save
as
its
template
I'm
going
to
create
a
page
just
awesome,
but
then
it's
like
well.
This
works
only
in
one
site
collection,
so
Microsoft.
Why
didn't
you
actually
consider
implementing
this
cross
tenon?
So
you
would
be
able
to
save
these
templates
in
the
crystalline
way,
and
the
answer
is,
of
course
we
did.
A
But
what
we
wanted
to
do
first
is
get
the
minimal
Viable
Product
the
basic
experience
for
customers
to
give
us
feedback,
and
then
they
will
flag
that
well
I.
Also,
this
is
great,
but
I
need
to
do
this
in
a
tenant
level,
which
is
like
okay,
okay,
we
have
this
plants
already
waiting
here
and
let's
prioritize
those
on
top
of,
let's
say
some
other
modernization
or
modern
capabilities,
and
let's
make
that
happen,
because
so
many
customers
are
requesting
this
and
that
that's
really
the
way
of
thinking.
A
This
well
made
a
lot
of
the
functionalities
in
in
modern
SharePoint
or
internship
and
in
general,
just
like
step
number
one,
two,
three,
four:
five:
six
seven
or
if
there's
conceptual
plans,
but
then
we
always
start
by
going
live
with
the
step
number
one.
So
we
get
the
initial
feedback.
We
can
hold
that
and
maybe
see
that
wait
a
minute.
A
The
step
number
two
doesn't
seem
to
be
the
right
thing
to
do,
but
maybe
if
we
go
to
the
number
tree
immediately
and
combine
that
because
then
we
can
in
the
modern
world
in
the
in
the
world
where
we're
releasing
a
new
version
every
small
week
we
need,
we
can
do
this
and
at
the
same
time
we
need
to
because
otherwise
we'll
lose
our
customers
to
the
competitors.
Right
yeah
did
I
answer
your
question.
Yes,.
B
And
I
guess
I
also,
let
me
add
a
few
things
from
my
own
experience
at
that.
That's
like
one,
no
matter
how
many
engineers
you
have,
you
would
never
have
enough
of
them
to
do
everything
you
want.
Why
that's
like
going
say
back
to
what
I
said
at
the
start.
You
have
always
so
many
more
ideas.
There
are
always
so
many
experiments
when
I
shine,
there's
always
more
more
more
more
more
and
the
more
your
team
grows.
Well,
the
more
experiments
you
will
want
them
to
run,
so
it
will
never
end.
There
will
be
stuff.
B
B
But
even
then
you'll
have
more
ideas:
more
customers,
more
ideas,
more
fuel,
a
bit.
You
have
to
process
more
PS,
more
tea,
so
it
just
like
that's
realities
of
life.
You
will
never
have
enough
engineers
to
do
everything
you
want
to
do
right
so
like
like
like
one,
it's,
not
that
there's
unwillingness
of
PM's
and
Microsoft
not
to
do
things.
It's
just
realities
of
life.
There
are
not
an
hour's,
not
enough
hours
in
the
day
and
people
do
it
right.
That
is
one
and
two
anything.
B
Imagine
imagine
that
that
you
would
get
this
full
list
of
the
things
you
could
achieve
in
classic
and
then
you
want
to
say
you
know
what
before
we
go,
live
in
the
modern
experiences.
We
would
just
do
the
whole
thing
yep.
It
would
take
you
so
much
longer.
It
would
aggravate
everybody
across
the
road
and,
as
you
say,
you
would
probably
look
loose
people
over
that
because
you
haven't
innovated
yep,
whereas
now
you
say
nobody
says
we
are
done
yet.
B
B
Yeah,
exactly
and
I
guess
that,
like
Noah
days,
because
as
you
say,
you
can
release
every
week,
I
think
that
in
a
ways
it
simplifies
things
because
imagine
what
happened
in
the
past,
you
had
a
release
window
once
every
three
years,
the
consequence
of
missing
the
window
was
one
huge
three
years.
Yes,
it
was.
It
was
not
another
week.
A
That's
that
and
the
way
of
doing
the
engineering
at
the
time
was
that
we,
you
basically
had
an
idea
you,
you
thought
to
ensure
we
had
interviews
with
customers
and
research
and
all
of
that,
but
it's
like
an
assumption.
We're
betting
on
this
thing,
we're
thinking
that
yes
is
the
best
thing
ever.
Let's
say
this:
catalog
search,
catalog
based
websites,
dot-com
science,
is
the
best
thing
ever
and
we
bet.
A
We're
gonna
bet
X
amount
of
investments
on
that
one,
and
then
you
go
alive
with
the
sharepoint,
2013
release
and
and
and
you're
kind
of
a
crossing
fingers
and
saying.
Well,
we
invested
X
amount
of
money
on
that,
hopefully
somebody's
getting
that
and
it's
an
interesting
balance
and
and
based
on
that
release
and
those
month,
let's
say
yearly
resists.
Then
you
needed
to
do
marketing,
documentation,
guidance
and
everything
as
a
big
bang.
Now
we
actually
evolved
this
stuff
all
the
time
based
on.
Oh
that's
missing.
A
A
But
one
thing:
what's
actually
really
interesting
in
the
products
as
well
and
overhead
projects
has
a
life
cycle,
and
but
every
single
product
is
a
life
cycle
as
well,
which
is
really
really
interesting.
Discussion
point
if
you
think
about,
for
example,
and
obviously
I
love
all
of
our
competitors
and
all
of
that.
But
if
you
think
about
even
Google,
Google
is
a
text
box
in
internet
way,
which
we
use
all
the
time
for
searching
functionality.
A
A
So
it's
always
the
the
trying
to
figure
out
what
is
the
next
product,
which
is
then
rising
and
getting
the
revenue
because
the
one
product
is
going
down
and
when
it's
the
time
to
actually
start
investing
that
the
next
product
more
or
do
we
evolve
and
refresh
the
existing
products
which
we've
been
doing
now
with
SharePoint,
because
the
classic
SharePoint's
wasn't
any
more
that
compelling
right.
So
we
needed
to
do
a
refresh.
So
we
get
the
product
back
on
track
on
on
the
usage.
A
But
if
you
think
about
the
the
google
google
is
such
a
great
example.
I
just
took
the
notes
here,
because
it's
a
great
story.
It
always
makes
me
smile
because
back
in
98
and
Google
got
an
offer
for
selling
them
technology.
The
technology,
with
the
guys,
had
actually
done
to
Yahoo
for
a
1
million.
So
Yahoo
basics
is
that
for
the
Google
guys
back
in
98,
ok,
whatever
you
have
well
actually
not
the
way
around
Google
guys
for
trying
to
sell
themselves
the
day,
Yahoo
and
say:
hey
Yahoo.
A
So
we
have
this
trade
technology
which
we
created
and
would
you
buy
us
for
1
million
and
Yahoo
said
yeah
not
interested?
What's
a
site?
Ok,
so
back
in
2002,
Yahoo
offered
3
billion.
So
that's
years
later,
yahoo
offered
3
billion
of
the
three
thousand
times
more.
Yes,
and
basically
and
google
said
no,
but
let's
actually
do
this
in
five
billion
and
yeah.
Who
said
no,
that's
not
enough
and
we're
not
gonna
increase
the
offer
from
3
billion
to
5
billion.
Now
and
in
2002
I
was
let's
say
where
I
was
working.
A
I
was
probably
working
and
actually
in
customer
projects
still
and
maybe
doll
to
vista
and
everything
else
was
already
going
down
and
lucas
and
google
going
up,
and
maybe
that
would
have
been
a
good
boy
for
Yahoo.
So
back
in
2008.
I
still
remember
this,
because
I
was
already
working
in
Microsoft
2008
Microsoft
offered
40
billion
to
buy
Yahoo,
which
is
like
what
and,
and
especially
at
least
in
Mike's,
a
Finland
a
lot
of
the
consultants.
Everybody
was
like
whoa
why?
A
Why
would
I
be
sure
that
this
is
the
smart
thing
to
do
sure
we
have
money?
That's
not
the
problem,
because
much
stuff
has
been
highly
profitable
for
the
lifecycle
of
Microsoft.
That's
not
really
the
problem,
but
40
billion,
oh
wow.
What
what?
What
and
I
still
remember
sitting
in
tech,
ready
tech
radius,
our
internal
conference,
where
Steve
Ballmer
is
on
a
stage
explaining
why
this
is
the
best
deal
ever
and
we
can
actually
make
it
happen
back
in
2008
back
in
2008.
Is
it
autumn
or
January
time
frame?
A
I
can't
remember,
but
that
was
interesting
and
Yahoo
said
no
we're
not
interested
we're
not
going
to
do
this,
so
40
billion
not
interested,
and
then
now
in
2016
Yahoo
was
sold
to
Verizon
for
4.6
billion
and
I.
Don't
know,
what's
left
out
us
yeah
because
I
don't
know
anybody
knows
anything,
but
it
used
to
be
a
number
one
player.
If
you
think
about
MySpace
and
that's
a
product
as
well
right,
it
used
to
have
a
massive
use.
Its
then
AOL
in
the
credit
that
wherewhere
is
AOL,
I,
don't
know
it's
all
gone.
A
A
We
as
Microsoft,
we
bought
sky
for
8.5
billion
again
from
Pat
a
year
and
I
don't
have
the
years
everything
down,
but
eight
point
five
billion
back
in
like
when
was
it
five
six
ten
years
ago,
I
came
back
and
now
we're
kind
of
all
better
subscribe
still
exists
and
a
lot
of
technology
is
getting
now
used
in
this
discussion
as
well,
because
we're
using
teams
and
and
we
had
Skype-
we
had
a
link
and
then
we
had
Skype
for
business
and
now
have
teams
which
is
interesting.
Evolution
of
things
as
well.
I.
A
It's
it
when
you
think
about
this
churn
is
just
a
lot
of
a
lot
of,
let's
say,
company,
product
names
and
releases
and
functionalities,
but
then
things
evolve.
It's
actually
interesting
that
SharePoint
product
name
has
to
existed
this
long
and
maybe
for
a
while.
It
was
actually
gonna
going
away
because
we
even
renamed
SharePoint
sites
in
the
office.
365.
B
A
B
A
B
B
And
in
a
way,
I'm
curious
with
that,
like
will,
we
ever
see
a
freemium
version
of
office
365
consumer
grade,
because
because
there
is
the
onedrive
and
wondering
for
prison,
that's
right
and
there
also
in
the
Google
space
there
is
the
free
Docs
yep
versus
the
company.
So
and
in
one
rifle
ready
you
have
files
right,
you
can
create
files,
so
we
have
like
simplified
version
of
that
exactly.
A
B
Mean
that's
also,
that
was
the
one
thing
they
should
do
in
products
that
you
don't
really
do
in
projects
yeah,
or
at
least
this,
and
that
as
soon
so,
the
final
thing
that
I
really
realized
the
other
day
like
in
products.
If
you
do
it
right,
when
you
want
to
try
something
out
because
in
products
like
you,
don't
really
know
things
you'd
like
you
can
you
can
lie
to
yourself
as
much
as
you
like,
but
oftentimes
you
have.
You
have
an
idea.
You
make
an
assumption.
B
You
wanted
to
run
an
experiment
yeah
and
like
the
goal,
is
to
try
as
many
things
as
you
like,
as
or
as
many
things
as
you
can
as
quickly
as
you
can,
so
that
you
know
what
fails
and
you
will
like,
like
you,
won't
have
like
the
chance
to
for
you
to
come
up
with
an
idea
and
that
being
success
is
very
close
to
a
zero,
and
so
instead,
you
test
your
assumptions
with
the
market.
Customers
experiment,
if
you
rinse
and
repeat,
and
you
risk
and
repeat-
and
your
isn't
repeat
way.
A
B
In
the
way,
the
same
things
like
we
used
to
do
the
same
things
in
projects
as
well,
but
then
the
funny
thing
is
that
we
never
really
called
it
out
as
well,
because
let's
try
this
new
framework,
let's
try
to
do
angular
as
opposed
to
angularjs.
Let's
do
things
in
view.
You
run
an
experiment,
but
because
you
haven't
really
called
it
out
as
such,
you
would
have
this
additional
cost-cutting
in
the
the
revenue
and
profit,
but
nobody
really
able
to
explain
like.
Why?
Is
it
like
that
yeah?
Because
it's
things
take
more
time
than
like?
B
B
That's
often
the
inability
or
the
difference
between
managing
product
is
being
often
done
from
the
more
business
side,
whereas
projects
are
often
led
by
our
technology
in
that
is
often
led
by
architects
and
that
never
really
sips
in
2d,
let's
say
the
business
side
and
the
price
you
offer
and
the
cut
of
the
distinction
between
profit
you
make
versus
investment.
You
do
in
learning
new
technology
stack.
Let's.
A
Say
a
super
classic
example
for
those
who've
been
around
for
a
long
time
back
in
2010
timeframe,
I
think
SharePoint
2010.
We
were
getting
all
the
time
feedback
on.
Why?
Why
won't
you
update
a
dotnet
framework
version
or
what
a
2013
to
dotnet,
4.2
or
or
a
4
yeah?
Why
don't
you
do
that
in
a
service
pack,
1
or
2?
The
answer
is
well,
it
doesn't
make
any
sense.
The
investment
versus
the
value
out
of
gaining
that.
From
our
perspective,
it's
just
doesn't
make
any
sense.
Engineers.
A
Greatest
absolutely,
and
they
can
trust
if
I
this
by
saying
yeah
yeah,
but
I
can
actually
increase
my
implementation
quality,
and
that
would
help
you
so
which
is
true.
But
again,
oh,
it's,
the
value
versus
versus
investment.
Coming
back
on
your
experiments
and
especially
in
SharePoint
Online.
We
actually
do
that
nowadays,
all
the
time
we
do
experiments
and
then
we
have
telemetry,
which
is
telling
us
how
the
funnel
actually
works.
A
Exactly
exactly
well,
the
Rings
are
more
for
Microsoft
teams,
but
the
targets
are
release
and
and
non
target
areas,
and
all
that
stuff
that
that
really
comes
down
on
the
similar
way
of
thinking
and
I'll
share
punt
online.
We
can
easily
do
that
because
again
weekly
releases
now
in
on-premises,
you
can't
do
experiments
in
on
a
premise
of
because
how
would
you
get
the
telemetry?
You
can't.
A
A
dollars
a
few
years
back
and
still
I
think
we're
in
the
end,
let's
say
in
the
process
of
getting
it
truly,
let's
say
integrated
on,
for
example,
and
Microsoft,
Kraft,
potentially
and
and
all
of
this
area,
its
massive
interesting
area
between
a
six
point:
two
billion,
that's
quite
a
significant
amount
of
money,
considering
the
fact
that
we
bought
Nokia
phones
for
what
was
it
seven
point,
two
billion.
So
if.
B
B
B
B
B
A
A
B
A
Absolutely
absolutely,
but
you
can't
actually
see
yourself,
it's
really
it's
one
of
those
in
really,
at
least
from
my
perspective,
if
somebody's
asking
me,
whatever
way,
you
see
yourself
in
five
years,
it's
like
well,
where
do
you
want
to
be
my?
Where
do
you
see
me
in
five
years?
Where
would
you
want
to
be
whatever
for
me
where
I'm
gonna
be
in
five
years,
and
is
that
something
which
I
would
like
to
do?
I,
don't
know,
but
hey
I,
don't
know
where
I'm
gonna
be
in
five
years,
yeah.
B
But
I
guess
like
it
isn't
bad
like
it's.
No,
there
is
not
like
you
have
to
like
I,
recall,
very
good
discussions
that
I
had
exactly
that
like
every
single
year,
the
yearly
evil
like
okay,
where
you
want
to
be
in
the
next
year,
I,
don't
know
like
back
in
the
days.
I
just
want
to
do
cool
projects
work
with
modern
tech
like
that
was
what
drove
me
and
do
that
I
mean
think
I
didn't
have
back
down
aspirations
to
become
manager
or
team
lead
or
CTO
or
CEO.
B
I
know
there
wasn't
the
case
right,
I
mean,
and
it's
also
part
of
the
I-
think
it's
tough,
it's
tough,
because
when
you
end
up
managing
a
team,
it's
really
hard
to
ensure
that
everyone's
happy
and
like
you
empower
them
to
achieve
whatever
they
want
to
do,
and
maybe
for
some
folks,
it's
like
they're,
okay,
with
coming
to
work
and
doing
doing
the
bass,
because-
and
that
is
it-
and
that
is
perfectly
fine.
Like
not
everybody
has
to
be
this.
You
know
the
10k
ng
near.
B
Where
do
you
know
they
do
everything
like
better
and
they
wanted
to
grow?
Sure
I
mean
you
can
do
that,
but
even
that
at
some
point
there's
limits
to,
because
maybe
that
person
will
get
a
child
and
then
they're
all
like
overnight,
we'll
just
like
flip
from
one
extreme
to
another
yeah.
And
there
goes
your
your
plan.
Yep.
A
A
We're
so
good
on
this
20
minutes,
podcasts
and
videos
this
weekend,
there's
a
tree
sharepoint
conference
ship
on
Saturdays,
so
the
shipment
saturday,
helsinki,
I
will
be
presenting
there
as
well.
Apparently
it's
getting
sold
out
so
looking
quite
quite
good
and
the
speaker
list
and
the
session
list.
This
is
quite
good,
a
lot
of
lot
of
well-known
MVPs,
but
also
definitely
some
locals
from
a
microblog
of
Finland
people.
But
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
familiar
faces
can
be
bees
across
the
world.
This
is
being
organized
by
you,
see
Maury
and
you
zero
in
it.
A
A
lot
of
speakers
as
well,
and
definitely
good-looking
set
of
sessions
getting
here
from
SharePoint
framework,
craf
usage,
integration
of
you,
power,
apps
flow
office,
365,
looking
really
really
good,
and
also
not
just
the
development
side
of
doorbells
the
house,
but
also
usage
and
end-user
driven
topics
in
here
as
well
up
to
the
level
of
what
was
it
who's
using
SharePoint.
That's
an
interesting
actually
topic
based
on
experience,
isn't
that.
B
A
Then,
let's
move
the
Microsoft
side
of
the
house,
so
much
tech,
community,
official
shipment
block,
there's
a
a
cute
workers
from
Scott
Stewart
she's,
a
senior
senior
program
manager
or
program
manager
from
Microsoft
side
and
he's
leading
this
Bates
diagnostic
to
a
forge
which
basically
is
giving
you
insights
around
your
popular
modern
pages
or
I.
Think
it's
actually
support.
A
Super
valuable
and
basic
idea
is
that
it
gives
you
areas
where
you
should
be
looking
into
and
improving
your
current
page
as
an
example
web
part
using
iframes
or
large
images
was
good
example,
which
unfortunately
isn't
in
this
picture,
but
it's
a
good
example.
If
you're
using
massive
pictures,
no
wonder
your
page
load
time
might
be
small
if
you're
explicitly
using
a
megabyte
size.
Pictures
right.
A
And
we're
looking
into
integrating
this
tool
also
on
the
support
processes.
So
if
people
are
having
slowness
on
their
sites,
then
we're
requesting
people
to
install
this
tool,
so
we
can
analyze.
Ok.
So
what
exactly
is
causing
that
slowness?
Is
it?
Is
it
your
internal
network?
Is
it
this
web
page?
Is
it
the
server
side,
because
that's
always
there's
so
many,
let's
say
areas
which
could
actually
be
the
root
cause
of
the
slowness
of
your
SharePoint
site.
B
Like
if
we
compare
this,
for
example,
to
power
apps
in
power-ups
in
the
app
experience,
you
have
a
tool
that
allows
you
to
check
whatever
you
have
built.
If
I
can
imagine
this
being
a
part
of
the
SharePoint
page
experience
where
you
have
a
button
be
or
assuming,
given
you
have
enough
religions
yep,
then
you
get.
You
can
just
clean
the
two
and
see
directly
within
the
context
of
the
page.
What
this
page
doesn't
I
mean,
maybe
it
wouldn't
be
an
option
because
it
has
to
monitor
networks.
Second,
all
of
this.
Yes.
A
Absolutely
absolutely
right
now
it's
it's
an
add-on
to
Chrome
or
Microsoft
H
so
and
then
that
analyzes,
the
network
traffic,
as
well
like
like
I,
said
well
like
yes
good,
then
moving
here
deployed
corporate
SPF
X
pages,
this
basically
from
Munich
related
on
app
pages
and
how
you
can
control
their
visibility
and
and
avoid
them
to
be
available
for
everybody
versus
only
for
some
people.
It's
a
really
nice
set
of
guidance
and
an
example
how
to
make
things
happen,
so
how
to
have
a
single
page
experience
which
users
cannot
actually
edit
as
an
example.
A
So
because
that's
really
the
key
idea
of
the
app
pages
as
well.
So
if
the
user
doesn't
have
the
sufficient
permissions,
it
is
a
lockdown
page
and
the
lockdown
pages
is
then
controlled
by
you
as
a
developer
or
designer,
what's
actually
on
the
lockdown
page,
and
maybe
we
should
actually.
We
definitely
should
have
more
guidance
on
that
pages,
because
I
think
the
functionality
itself
is
super
super
awesome.
A
And
but
what
are
the
opportunities
of
actually
using
that
so
really
cool
absolutely
stuff
now,
and
then
these
following
two
are
kind
of
a
debatable,
but
we
wanted
to
call
them
out:
they're,
cute
blog
posts
from
RAM,
and
this
awesome
blurs
from
chip.
But
this
one
is
around:
how
do
you
can
hide
a
slide
header
so
having
an
application
customizer
at
its,
whose
actual,
which
is
actually
having
hiding
the
the
header?
A
If
needed
and
sure
you
can
absolutely
make
this
happen,
you
can
eat
relatively
easily
do
that
by
just
hiding
a
certain
deve
class,
because
that's
what
that
is,
but
we're
talking
about
dumb
injection,
dumb
page
dumb
structure,
manipulation
of
the
page.
So
that's
a
this
only
works.
If
and
until
we
change
that
data,
automation,
ID
or
the
main
hitter
or
the
the
structure
of
the
page,
and
that
might
happen
because
we
are
releasing
a
new
gratian
sonu
page
and.
B
That
is
important
thing.
Page
tome
is
not
an.
It
is
not
an
api.
There
is
no
SLA
on
it
and
as
such,
there
is
no
reason
for
you
to
give
up
from
notice
of
that.
Div
will
change
tomorrow
like
no,
yes,
like
you
can
change
it
as
you
need.
So
why
do
you,
let's
say,
reserve
yourself
the
right
to
change
that?
Oh.
A
A
How
do
you
get
rid
of
it?
It's
nothing
more
than
actually
again
doing
a
CSS,
manipulation
or
JavaScript
manipulation
and
then
both
getting
rid
of
it.
The
question
is,
though,
why
would
you
do
that?
Well,
what
sure
this
is
absolutely
unsupported
by
Microsoft
and
the
question
is:
why
would
you
want
to
hide
the
investments
which
you
have
done
of
office
365
from
your
end
users,
because.
A
Sure,
theoretically,
yes,
but
then
that's
actually
is
it
a
birth.
While
is
that
the
right
design
and
because
then
you're
limiting
out-of-the-box
functionalities
and
by
the
way,
this
piece
of
code
can
actually
get
proken
any
time
as
well,
because
we
might
change
the
implementation
so
yeah
again,
dumb
is
not
the
API
dome
structure
is
not
idea.
You
cannot
guarantee
that
we
will
not
change
that
and
that's
Jeff
is
calling
that
out
quite
visibly
here
as
well.
I'm
supported
by
Microsoft
so
well.
A
Absolutely
now,
if
people
are
demanding
that
there
should
be
similar
capabilities
like
hiding
the
sued
navigation
or
having
the
accessibility
on
certain
avocation,
then
yes,
let's
actually
start
collecting
user
voice
feedback
on
that
and
votes
on
that
one
and
then
we'll
provide
a
native
support
for
making
that
happen
rather
than
hacking.
The
hacking
is
not
a
wise
thing
to
do
in
SharePoint,
Online.
Definitely.
A
Absolutely
now
the
following
two
are
around
the
speed
of
SharePoint
framework.
So
how
do
we
increase
the
the
compilation
or
turns
compiling
page
speed
and
performance
when
you're
building
a
shape
on
frame
our
solutions
are
the
build
performance
might
be
slow
if
you
have
a
little
large
a
solution
like
SharePoint
starter
kits-
and
this
is
from
circa
around
different
things,
you
can
do
to
actually
optimize
the
speed.
It's
a
really
good.
First
on
done.
This
actually
relates
earlier
today.
A
The
kind
of
follow
up
on
that
one
as
well,
which
is
around
speeding
up
ship
on
framer,
builds
with
the
WSL,
because
that's
then
faster
on
with
NPM
right,
correct,
so
windows,
subsystem
for
linux,
SWS
arrow,
so
basically
running
Linux
and
Windows,
which,
if
somebody
would
have
told
me
that
this
is
possible
in
2018
back
in
2000
and,
let's
say
eight
ten
years
ago,
2019
what
day?
What
year
is
it
again?
A
The
templating
plus
applying
example,
content
on
that
newly
created
template
a
newly
created
list
as
well
so
good
one
here
creating
marks
or
themes
using
TMP,
creating
much
the
themes
using
PowerShell
core
and
provisioning
templates.
That's
really
interesting!
This
is
actually
cut
out.
Getting
a
lot
of
attention
as
well.
This
is
from
Gotham
says
basically
as
part
of
the
latest
versions
of
the
PMP
1010
on
templates.
A
Try
we
targeting
provisioned
and
then
the
team
structure,
and
then
you
apply
that
once
to
a
tenant
and
both
we
look
at
they're
always
the
same
end
result
so
not
just
the
team's
specific
thing,
but
also
larger
tenant
structures,
but
good
blog
post
on
explaining
how
to
make
that
happen.
How
to
use
PowerShell
to
make
that
happen
or
how
to
use
code.
C
sharp
to
make
that
happen
so
really
cool
here
and
this
one
from
a
and
I
think
this
is
a
new
person.
A
We
haven't
actually
seen
this
in
the
past,
but
this
is
around
five
ways
to
choose
with
my
list
flow
SPF,
X
and
power
apps
to
build
apps.
One
of
my
classic
discussion
point:
when
would
I
actually
use
SharePoint
when
would
I
answer?
Is
power
apps?
When
would
actually
is
flow?
And
there
was
a
nice
sense?
It
depends
the
absolutely
a
nice
table
also
here
with
system
showing
out
ship
on
forever
cash
or
back-end
complex
application
involving
large
data
power.
A
Ups
inertia
back-end
has
a
different
implications
and
all
of
that-
and
obviously
one
may
be
area
which
isn't
mentioning
here-
is
the
licensing
implications
which,
which
obviously
has
a
value
or
impact
as
well
so
but
cute
blog
post
from
Ellen,
so
I
don't
think
we
have
seen
proposed
for
Melanie
in
SPF
weekly
in
the
past,
so
good
to
have
new
people
under
under
article
cited
hospital.
So
this
one
is
from
Tom
Cruise
no
from
entry
kernel
as.
A
Automating,
build
testing
and
deployment
of
Chevron
frame
approaches,
regression
pipelines
in
four
step.
So
basically
he
has
good
guidance
on
how
to
make
its
at
the
dash
of
pipelines,
automation,
easily
available
using
ml
files,
really
really
cool,
really
really
easily
doable
for
your
SPF
X
solutions,
so
great
post
from
entry
on
that,
and
then
the
final
person
here,
let's
see
if
we
can
get
a
a
smiling
polar
if.
A
That's
the
long
running
joke
as
well,
and
basically
a
video
around
how
to
tell
the
run
testing
testing
SPF
X
solutions
at
one
point,
nine
point:
one
solutions
and
he's
explaining
that
with
an
example,
live
demos,
and
all
of
that
so
parlor
has
this
PS
which
take
bite
series.
This
is
episode
70,
and
these
are
really
good
for
videos,
ten
minutes
or
less
covering
a
specific
topic,
so
super
useful.
Definitely
it's
almost
like
what
we're
trying
today
with
SPF
weekly,
like
twenty
minutes.
Thirty
minutes.
This
is
like
one
hour.
A
I
know
I
know
for
sending,
so
luckily
you
didn't
have
a
customer
meeting
or
hopefully
I
didn't,
have
a
customer,
no
idea,
I
think
it's
that's
it
for
for
now.
For
next
week
we
have
Marty
Anderson
already
q-dubs
for
having
a
discussion
on
interesting
stuff.
What
Mark
has
done
in
the
past
and
anything
what's
on
your
radar
for
this
week?
Well,
a
lot.
B
We
are
experimenting
yeah,
yes,
yes,
exactly
so
like
working
on
products,
we
have
few
ideas
that
we
want
to
try
and
we're
going
basically
through
the
target
audience
to
whom
we
want
to
introduce
how
wanna
introduce
so
all
the
non-technical
things
that
go
into
developing
product
and
bring
it
to
market,
because
building
built
building
is
actually
the
easy
part.
Yes,
like
worrying
about
the
things
like
scale,
performers
sure
when
you
have
people
on
it,
you
will
take
care
of
that.
Okay,
first,
you
have
to
get
it
to
people,
explain
value
like.
B
A
B
A
A
The
number
one
most
important
thing
is
to
readme
file,
because,
even
though
your
code
would
be
the
most
awesome
thing
when
somebody
compiles
that
or
or
test
it
out
or
trance
compiles
and
runs
the
solution,
if
your
readme
file
doesn't
explain
what
it
is,
why
it's
interesting
it's
it
should
shut
and
an
image
animation,
even
better,
explaining
nobody's
gonna
even
bother
to
check
it
out.
Yes,
and
the
readme
file
is
the
most
important
thing
almost
in
this
projects
and.
B
There
is
room
to
explain
like
how
you've
done
it.
The
hoops
you've
met
challenges
you
face,
so
there
isn't
for
that,
but
the
first,
the
first
things
first,
because
if
you
don't
capture
people's
attention
at
first,
they
will
not
invest
in
the
last
friend
right
heart
and
also
like
try
and
try
to
make
it
there.
Basically,
the
way
you
read
article
in
paper
when
you
read
the
headline,
you
know
everything
yeah
the
further
down.
You
go
the
more
details.
B
You
get
yes,
but
there
is
no
like
build
a
bill
to
build
a
bill
to
build
a
build,
a
bit
better
and
reveal
because
people
lose
attention
nowadays,
our
attention
spans
are
so
short
because
there's
this
overload
of
signals
and
info.
So
if
you
can
really
capture
the
audience
with
even
things
like
image
like
put
image
first
and
was
like
yeah,
that's
interesting,
hey,
I
didn't
and
then
they
will
read.
Yes,.
A
Absolutely
absolutely
and
then
call
out
the
key
points
and
all
of
that
and
then
go
to
the
further
details
and
everything.
That's
that
should
be
it.
Every
single
clock
post
should
be.
Actually.
This
is
why
this
matter
this
is
this
is
the
thing:
why
do
you?
Why
why
people
should
be
reading
this
book
post
start
with
that
and
then
give
them
more
context?
Super
super
important,
but
I
think
that's
it.
Thank
you,
waldek
for
a
Christian
and
like
satanist
week
we'll
have
Marty
Anderson
joining
us
on
the
SPT
weekly
episode.