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From YouTube: Montgomery Historic Preservation Commission (4/09/19)
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D
E
C
A
The
first
session
was
an
overwhelming
success
and
also
like
to
think
the
members
of
this
commission
who
took
time
from
their
busy
schedules
to
come
out
and
I
like
to
encourage
all
of
us
to
help
us
with
the
upcoming
meetings
that
we
have.
Ladies
and
gentlemen
of
commission,
you
have
before
you
the
minutes
of
our
March
12
2019
meeting.
Is
there
motion
for
the
adoption
of
those
minutes?
I
move.
A
Unanimous,
probably
thank
you
so
very
much
restoration
of
the
month
as
we
move
along
with
our
agenda
for
four
to
seven
South
Goldthwait,
Street,
Cottage,
Hill
annex
this
is
for
me
and
now
we
will
have
our
committee
reports
they're,
revamping
the
historic
Sam
program.
The
working
committee
will
have
a
report
given
by
one
of
the
members.
E
B
A
E
E
E
E
E
D
A
G
Thank
mr.
Bailey,
my
name
is
Michael
pan
Horst
I'm,
the
executive
director
of
a
landmark
foundation
in
Montgomery
and
old
Alabama
town
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
comment
bring
to
your
attention
a
concern
of
the
preservation
community.
That
is,
there's
growing
awareness
about
a
threat
of
demolition
to
the
sanctuary
of
the
1847
old
First
Presbyterian
Church
at
52,
Adams
Avenue
as
more
and
more
people
are
becoming
aware.
The
First
Baptist
Church
has
proposed
to
the
architectural
review
board
that
they
demolished
the
sanctuary
of
this
building
and
build
a
new
community
service
or
caring
mission
there.
G
That
would
accommodate
what
they're
doing
in
other
parts
in
various
parts
of
the
old
building,
not
just
the
1847
portion,
but
an
early
20th
century
and
peace
and
without
going
into
any
great
detail.
I
just
want
you
to
know
that
last
Wednesday
at
a
joint
meeting
of
landmarks
foundations,
Executive
Board
and
advisory
board.
There
was
a
motion
passed
unanimously
to
endorse
me
to
write
to
pastor
dr.
G
So
I
delivered
that
letter
to
forspan
just
yesterday
and
just
want
this
body
to
know
that
landmarks
is
very
concerned
about
the
future
of
Montgomery's
oldest
extant
church
building.
That
has
a
lot
of
Merit.
I
won't
go
into
all
the
details
here,
because
time
is
tight,
but
I
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
share
our
concerns
about
this
historically
significant
building
and
what
is
proposed
demolition
that
will
have
an
opportunity
to
play
out
through
the
process
of
the
Architectural
Review
Board,
and
hope
that
there
will
be
more
discussion.
G
G
Good
question:
there
is
a
difference
of
opinion
regarding
the
condition
of
the
current
structure.
According
to
my
understanding,
from
speaking
with
several
who
have
gotten
into
this
conversation
in
recent
weeks,
because
the
preservation
community
has
only
become
aware
of
this
plan
over
the
last
couple
of
months,
and
it
is
my
understanding
that
the
First
Baptist
Church
has
a
study
that
they
claim
shows
that
the
cost
of
quote
restoring
the
church
would
be
prohibitively
expensive.
G
We
have
also
seen
from
dick
Hudgens,
probably
Alabama's
premier
historical
architect,
who
went
through
the
building's
basement
and
added
his
assessment,
which
was
conveyed
in
a
letter
to
a
group
of
people
who
are
loosely
identified
as
friends
of
all
First
Presbyterian
Church.
His
opinion
was
that
there
were
no
substantial.
G
C
F
If
they
go
to
the
ARB
as
the
submission
stands
now,
I
suspect
it
would
be
delayed,
because
some
of
the
information
that
was
requested
to
be
part
of
their
submission
packet
was
not
submitted
and
under
the
ARB
guidelines
to
request
a
demolition.
You
also
have
to
propose
a
suitable
replacement
plan
and,
if
they're
not
happy
with
that
replacement
plan,
it's
they're
gonna
send
them
back
to
the
drawing
board.
F
If
they
had
submitted
everything
all
the
information
that
would
allow
the
ARB
to
make
an
informed
decision,
they
could
still
delay
a
demolition
for
six
months
and
ask
them
to
explore
other
options.
Other
alternatives
for
the
property,
alternative,
uses,
alternative
owners
or
other
ways
to
incorporate
the
building
into
a
new
building
plan.
So.
C
F
F
C
G
Self-Supporting
stairs
in
the
vestibule
of
the
church
and
I
should
say
that
First
Baptist
has
proposed
to
keep
the
vestibule
and
the
stairs
and
the
stair
type.
The
bell
tower
correlations
on
that
part
of
it,
but
that's
15
an
hour
percent
of
the
total
building.
We
hope
that
First
Baptist
Church
will
reconsider
their
plan
and
will
save
the
sanctuary.
G
They
say
they
want
to
build
a
building.
That's
got
big
open
spaces,
so
they
can
do
what
they
want
to
do.
Well,
here's
a
great
big
open
space
and,
as
many
of
you
know,
historic
preservation
generally
is
more
economical
than
new
construction,
at
least
in
the
hard
dollar
phase,
where
you're
tearing
something
down
and
replacing
it
not
to
mention
the
savings
by
not
sending
building
material
to
the
dump
or
resolve
or
salvaging
yet,
and
so
it's
a
you
know,
a
complex
issue.
G
I'm
sure
there
are
other
concerns
it
may
be,
and
I
really
haven't
talked
this
through,
with
with
other
scholars
like
Bob
gamble,
who
has
been
doing
the
research,
some
research
and
providing
information
about
this
this
building,
but
it's
entirely
possible
that
that
horse
team
was
also
responsible
in
the
construction
of
the
building
as
a
whole.
The
huge
heavy
timber
construction
in
this
sanctuary.
G
Looks
kind
of
like
bridge
trusses,
and
so
so
he
may
be
associated
more
than
just
the
stairs,
but
this
is
not
a
proven
fact
it's,
but
it's
possibility.
So,
yes,
there's
there's
that
connection
to
a
very
important
individual
King
built
the
spiral
stairs
in
the
state
capital
and
then
served
in
the
legislature.
G
F
F
F
H
H
Recently
that's
come
up
for
debate
and
dr.
Bailey
and
I'm,
not
sure
if
you
are
a
part
of
that
already.
You
might
know
the
answer
to
that
question
right
off
the
top
of
your
head,
but
it's
always
if
it
wasn't
a
shelter
at
the
very
least,
it
was
a
witness
it
was.
It
was
used
to
cover
the
attackers
before
they
attacked
the
bus
and
in
the
chaos
afterwards.
It's
likely
that
it
could
have
been,
but
if
there's
strong
evidence
to
that
I'm
not
aware
of
it
now.
E
H
C
F
B
D
G
Jay,
Wolfe,
the
pastor
of
First
Baptist,
and
it's
just
a
brief
summary
statement
about
the
importance
of
the
building
and
a
copy
of
dick
Hudgens
letter,
but
I'm
happy
to
provide
that
for
the
for
the
record
and
I
do
want
to
say
that
some
conversation
is
has
begun
between
First
Baptist
and
Alford
and
the
preservation
community.
Now
that
their
proposal
has
been
submitted
and
there
was
no
conversation
before
but
but
not
much.
G
So
here's
our
First
Presbyterian
Church
and
please
note
here
the
crenelated
skyline
the
bell
tower
and
notice
that
there
is
a
lot
of
building
on
my
left.
You
know
on
the
uphill
side
of
the
old
church,
building
the
the
square
tower
and
the
crenelated
wall
of
the
sanctuary
that
is,
the
1847
portion.
There's
a
an
aerial
view
that
will
show
that
this
is
less
than
one-third
of
the
total
building.
That
is
slated
for
demolition.
Go.
G
So
what's
the
there's
a
detail
of
the
ogive
arch
that
pointed
gothic
arch
on
one
side
of
the
front
door
and
we'll
see
this
again
momentarily
that
that's
the
window
on
the
staircase,
so
that
this
is
a
view
in
the
attic
of
those
massive
heavy
timber
trusses
that
are
up
there
and
a
a
brick
arch.
It's
looking
up
the
side
of
the
brick
and
then
there's
a
round
arch
that
supports
part
of
the.
I
The
window
I
just
wanted
to
make
the
point
that
this
is
very
unique
brickwork
surrounding
this
window,
and
perhaps
it
hasn't
been
mentioned
that
John
P
Phi,
who
was
the
Builder
of
this
church,
also
owned
a
Brickyard,
and
we
believe
that
was
his
brick
Masons,
both
male
and
female,
any
slave
members
of
society
who
did
this
work
and
it's
very
unique
for
that
reason,
and
all
the
more
special
I
think
because
it
is
fabulous
brickwork
in
the
whole
construction.
So
I
just
wanted
to
note
that
ma'am.
I
A
We
want
to
do
whenever
someone
comes
to
this
area
and
that
person
is
a
part
of
the
preservation
community
is
history
community
we
want
to
let
that
person
know
there
is
an
implied
invitation
for
that
person
to
come
before
us
and
just
that
everybody
in
South
Central
know
that
that
person
is
in
within
our
myths.
So
we
want
to
take
this
opportunity
to
welcome
you
to
Montgomery,
and
we
hope
you
stay
here
for
at
least
55
years.
G
So
here's
a
portrait
of
horse
king
and
here
are
two
views
of
one
of
the
spiral
stairs
just
notice
that
it's
self-supporting
sort
of
flying
flying
staircase
and
go
ahead
on
the
slides.
These
are
views
of
the
original
sanctuary.
The
view
on
my
left
is
looking
towards
the
altar
and
the
view
on
the
right
is
looking
towards
the
back
of
the
church
and
that
balcony
is
I,
believe
that
is
the
original
balcony
here
the
organ
was
added
later
and
the
interior
has
been
modified
since
these
images
were
made.
But
let's
move
ahead.
G
This
is
more
or
less
what
the
sanctuary
looks
like
now
with
the
altar,
except
that
here
you
have,
the
woodwork
is
painted
white
and
if
we
move
on
forward
and
the
organ
has
been
relocated,
this
slide
talks
about
the
this
church
was
the
the
earliest
Gothic
Revival
church.
Building
in
Alabama
in
1840
is
started
in
44
1844
finished
in
1847,
and
it
was
it's
among
the
10
oldest
surviving
Gothic
Revival
churches
in
the
south.
G
The
Gothic
Revival
began
with
church
buildings
in
New
England
around
1815.
It
took
a
while
for
that
style
to
transition
into
the
south,
but,
as
Bob
Campbell
has
pointed
out,
this
is
a
really
important
building
for
the
transmission
and
influence
of
this
Gothic
style,
which
is
so
closely
associated
with
religious
architecture
because
of
the
association
between
the
Gothic
style
and
the
Middle
Ages
and
Gothic
cathedrals.
So
moving
on,
here's
that
church
in
New
Haven
Trinity
on
the
green
1816
next
slide,
please.
G
G
This
slide
illustrates
on
the
bottom,
those
two
you
know:
a
sort
of
a
country
church
on
my
left
and
government
street
Presbyterian
Church
on
the
right,
basically
Classical,
Revival
structures,
in
contrast
with
the
Gothic
Revival
of
all
First
Presbyterian,
which
you
see
in
the
image
at
the
top.
Next
there's
the
West
face
the
West
facade.
This
is
what
you
see
from
near
the
Greyhound
bus
station
and
so
that
red
brick
portion
on
my
right,
where
that
white
truck
is
parked
that
piece
of
the
building
is
1880s.
G
You
see
South
Perry
at
the
very
top
that
piece
of
the
building
was
built
around
1950
and
so
the
proposal
as
we
understand
it,
calls
for
the
demolition
of
all
of
this
church
building
to
rebuild
a
new
structure
that
is
not
as
large
in
footprint
as
the
total
footprint
of
the
existing
building
surrounding
that
cloister
in
the
center.
You
see
where
the
shadows
are
there
I
can't
point
from
here,
but
there
is
a
closer
directly
above
the
1840.
G
Thank
you
right
right
there,
and
so
you
can
see
that
the
1847
portion
of
this
building
is
what
20%
of
the
total
structure
may
be.
25
I
mean
it
is
a
relatively
small
part
of
the
whole.
So
we
are
hopeful
that
First
Baptist
will
reconsider
their
plans
to
demolish
the
sanctuary
and
find
a
way
to
use
it
in
a
constructive
fashion
there
just
a
couple
more
slides.
E
H
H
Yeah,
yes,
and
there's
also,
they
cited
two
million
dollars
that
they
spent
over
a
20-year
period
to
maintain
that
entire
footprint,
not
just
to
1847
sanctuary
I,
think
that's
something
that
we've
we've
really
failed
to
discuss
here
and
point
out
in
our
conversations
with
First
Baptist,
that
what
they're,
citing
is
the
entirety
of
that
church.
And
what
we're
talking
about
is
the
1847
sanctuary.
G
In
fact,
the
entire
structure
is
locally
designated
and
the
entire
structure
is
on
the
National
Register
of
Historic
Places
as
part
of
a
historic
district,
but
the
concerns
of
the
preservation
community
are
primarily
focused
on
the
sanctuary.
The
bell
tower,
the
staircase,
the
1847
portion
of
this
building.
B
B
D
G
G
C
F
H
Can
I
suggest
this
alternative
to
the
Commission
sure,
then
one
First
Baptist
has
written
a
letter
a
fairly
thorough,
a
letter
I
believe
it's
two
pages.
We
have
a
copy
of
that.
If
there
are
such
scheduling
conflicts,
we
can
provide
you
with
that
letter.
It
will
answer
all
the
questions
you
have.
This
is
the
letter
that
they
have
heard
it
from
their
mouths
on
the
several
occasions,
but
this
is
the
letter
that
they've
also
provided
to
their
membership
to
support.
H
You
know
discussion
is
with
with,
with
J
and
with
the
church.
We
have
provided
a
handful
of
alternatives
from
turning
the
building
over
to
a
lessor
who
would
be
responsible
for
the
maintenance,
for
the
Church
maintains
the
ownership.
They
were
not
supportive
of
that
to
outright
selling
the
building
back
to
the
Presbyterians.
We
had
an
opportunity
to
make
that
happen.
H
They
did
not
want
to
do
that
and
then
lastly,
adaptive
reuse,
which
to
me
seems
to
be
the
most
reasonable
option
and
even
defined
that
down
to
a
not
even
the
entirety
of
the
sanctuary,
but
what
we
can
define
as
the
18:47
sanctuary
through
significant
research
and
seems
to
be
the
only
thing
that
they'll
even
entertain,
but
at
the
same
time
you
know.
J.
C
H
B
Maybe
with
Brian
there,
maybe
why
we
don't
necessarily
have
to
put
a
resolution
on
the
floor
this
time.
We
could
certainly
do
as
he
suggests
and
make
a
request
by
motion
to
they
are
be
that
they
not
approve
this
matter
until
we
have
time
to
because
of
this
historical
sinew,
you
know
significance
that
they
not
prove
this
Mel
until
we
have
time
to
review
review
the
matter
and
to
consult
with
them
about
it.
I
just.
C
F
C
E
C
B
E
B
F
F
F
C
A
F
Worry
that's
up
to
the
ARB,
as
with
this
evening
you
know
I.
Let
dr.
Bailey
know
that
there
may
be
some
folks
here
who
would
like
to
address
the
body
at
the
ARB
meeting.
It's
a
little
different.
They
will
allow
ten
minutes
for
the
petitioner
and
then
they
will
allow
ten
minutes
for
comments
and
generally,
if
there
is
opposition
to
a
project,
we
recommend
that
people
get
together
and
not
just
keep
repeating
the
same
things
and
make
a
kind
of
blanket
presentation.
So
it
could
be
showing
this
PowerPoint
it
could
be
whatever.
E
D
E
E
E
A
What
is
happening
to
this
point,
Christie
made
that
we
were
just
dr.
resolution
in
which
we
asked
ARB
to
sit
tight
for
just
a
little
while,
so
that
we
can
hear
for
somebody
from
First
Baptist,
in
other
words,
another
the
other
side
of
the
issue
before
we
do
anything
before
the
ARB
does
anything?
Okay,.
B
B
C
E
F
And
that's
why
I
was
suggesting
that
I
could
ask
that
outside
of
that
ten-minute
box,
that
the
chair
recognize
a
representative
from
the
hpc
because
y'all
don't
rear
your
heads
very
often,
actually
I've
never
seen
y'all
rear,
head
stall
since
I've
been
doing
this,
so
I
mean
I'm.
Just
saying
that
it
is
a
rare
occasion
where
this
body
has
shown
up
and
said.
F
E
E
G
B
Have
least
resonated
with
me
anyway:
the
lawyers
don't
mind
doing
it,
but
it
the
chairman,
is
I.
Think.
A
Better
choice:
listen,
let's
do
this
so
that
we
can
bring
this
to
a
head
if
this
body
desires
such
a
chairperson
of
this
Commission,
appear
at
the
ARB
to
advance
our
calls.
We
can
do
that
and
we
would
just
ask
some
other
commissioners
to
attend
the
meeting.
That
night
does
that
them
know
that
the
chair
does
not
and
along
on
the
issue.
If.
E
A
C
A
C
G
B
C
F
F
A
B
Chairman,
yes
before
you
do
that
motion
I'm,
Chloe,
Reeves
I'm,
a
contractor
I've
been
for
53
years
here
at
Montgomery
builder
remodeler,
restore
recently
retired,
though
I
sit
on
the
Planning
Commission
and
I'm.
Presently,
Midtown
Montgomery,
neighborhood
Alliance
in
this
church.
That's
within
our
boundaries
and
even
if
it
didn't
fit
in
our
boundaries.
I
am
totally
against
demolition
of
this
sanctuary
and
we
have
a
meeting
Thursday
nighttime.
This
is
going
to
be
part
of
our
agenda.
I
had
no
idea.
This
was
gonna
be
talked
about
tonight,
but
this
is
a
third
I.
E
E
F
I
think
it's
important
to
note
that
nobody
is
discounting
that
the
church
has
needs
that
aren't
entirely
being
met
with
this
facility
and
I.
Don't
think
anyone
is
trying
to
suggest
that
they
shouldn't
find
a
way
to
accommodate
their
programs.
I
think
it's
just
a
hope
that
maybe
a
good
rethink
is
in
order
to
try
to
preserve
you
know
we
have
lost
so
much
downtown
to
preserve
some
of
our
oldest
remaining
streetscape
mm-hmm
agreed.
I
E
A
Unanimous
Paul
all
right
what
we
are
saying
the
chairperson
will
attend
that
meeting
make
that
pitch
and
we
are
encouraging
the
other
commissioners
to
attend
also,
so
they
can
see
what
the
gentleman
just
referred
to
the
show
of
force.
Yes,
that
was
just
not
to
chairman
and
everybody
else
is
either
intimidated
or
busy
or
whatever
the
case
might
be,
that
we
will
attend
that
session
and
make
a
pointed
argument
and
not
a
timid
stands.
A
F
F
C
G
Bailey,
if
I
may
I'd
like
to
submit
these
four
pages
that
I
mentioned
earlier,
the
letter
from
dick
Hudgens
and
just
very
brief
information
about
all
first
presbyterian
I'll,
give
it
to
your
staff
and
I
want
to
express
my
appreciation
to
you
to
the
Historic
Preservation
Commission
for
the
opportunity
to
bring
this
concern
to
this
body.
We're
very
grateful
for
your
consideration.
A
You
and
let
me
encourage
the
other
members
of
this
commission
to
drive
by
First
Presbyterian
at
your
earliest
convenience,
to
get
just
get
a
feel
for
it
and
if
you
have
a
couple
of
minutes
to
gather
your
vehicle
and
just
walk
the
grounds
as
much
as
possible,
just
to
get
a
feel
before
April
23rd,
so
that
you
can
really
get
a
feel
for
what
we
want
to
advocate
it
that
meaning
okay.
Thank
you
very
much
are.
A
E
F
Get
the
equipment
again
tomorrow
now
that
we
know
how
to
set
it
up
and
we've
been
told,
like
I,
have
a
PowerPoint
that
what
they
can
do
in
post-production
is
instead
of
having
to
focus
on
the
screen
is
that
they
will
come
in
and
they
will
insert
slides
into
the
video
itself.
So
they're
gonna
clean
it
up
and
make
it
look
professional
and
eventually
we'll
get
it
up
on
the
city's.
D
A
We
like
to
also
applaud
the
working
members
of
that
committee.
Also,
yes,
thank
you
doing
the
excellent
job
regarding
the
site.
Huntington
College
flowers,
Hall
centrally
located
in
the
attendance,
was
magnificent
last
week
and
really
while
we
appreciate
all
of
this
wine.
Thank
you
so
much
and
we
look
forward
to
seeing
everybody
tomorrow
afternoon.
5:30
Huntington,
College,
flowers,
home
2018,
Awards.
F
E
F
E
F
B
E
F
E
F
F
D
E
E
D
F
I
have
not
gotten
confirmation
on
whether
or
not
someone
from
the
mayor's
office
will
do
a
welcome
for
the
awards
program.
Okay,
Mac
McCloud
he's
the
chief
of
staff
had
indicated
that
I
said
last
year.
The
mayor
was
asking
for
a
proclamation
and
we're
all
looking
at
each
other
gone
it's
a
proclamation.
We
thought
the
resolution
was
it
that
Michael
birdell
is
apparently
the
king
of
Proclamation,
so
I'm
gonna
get
with
him
okay
and
see
if
he
can
help
us
have
both,
but.
A
F
Talked
about
that
last
month,
y'all
wanted
to
get
more
information
from
the
building
department
on
the
there,
because
there
been
a
lot
of
press
about
the
software
they're
going
to
be
using
to
track
vacant
property.
Thomas
car
is
going
to
meet
with
us.
We're
gonna,
do
it
as
a
roundtable
in
the
old
council
chamber.
So
it's
a
little
easier
to
have
a
discussion,
and
so
you
can
ask
him
help
well
he'll
tell
you
about
what
their
plans
are
and
you
can
ask
them
whatever
you
want
is.