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From YouTube: Montgomery Historic Preservation Commission (12/14/21)
Description
The Montgomery City Planning Commission's December 9th meeting.
A
A
C
A
A
F
Would
you
like
to
say
a
few
words
well
just
on
behalf
of
carolyn
and
julian
as
a
neighborhood,
we
are
very
proud
of
their
efforts
and
the
restoration
of
their
house
on
clayton
and
also
with
being
recognized
by
the
city
for
that-
and
I
accept
this
happily
on
their
behalf.
Thank
you
very
much.
Thank
you.
So
much.
A
B
Where
to
begin
so,
you
all
have
just
a
selection
of
the
submission
if
anyone's
interested
the
full.
The
full
submission
is
available
online.
Under
the
architectural
review
board
on
the
city
calendar
you
got,
you've
got
the
highlights,
you've
got
a
site
plan
and
some
rent
the
cut
through,
and
then
some
3d
renderings
of
the
building
and
what
they
think
the
building
will
look
like
in
context.
F
F
F
It
we
also
have
an
issue
of
with
the
excavation
into
the
hill.
That
hill
is
in
fact,
cottage
hill,
where
the
cottage
hill
school,
which
gives
our
neighborhood
its
name,
was
once
located,
and
there
there
is
a
there
is
a
business
up
there.
You
can
see
the
parking
lot
there.
It
would
cut
all
the
way
really
to
that
business.
That's
a
massive
movement
of
earth
there.
F
F
F
F
F
But,
as
you
see
it's
a
it's
a
it's
a
paved
over
scar,
a
20-year
commitment
that
mapco
has
proposed
is,
is
you
know
I
have
a
36-year
accounting
commitment
to
my
neighborhood
that
that's
nothing
to
you
know
a
200
year
old
neighborhood.
So
you
know
we
also
feel
like.
Perhaps
the
most
important
point
for
us
in
our
sister
neighborhoods
is
the
precedent
of
their
two
attempts
to
get
around
existing
regulation
for
this
plan.
One
is
the
regulation
for
historic
neighborhoods,
but
the
other
is
they
will
attempt
to
get
a
rezoning.
C
F
F
Which
would
be
our
preference,
but
even
with
it
with
a
demolition
and
rebuild,
we
feel
like
they
can
do
a
lot
better
than
this
by
by
situating
their
market
in
a
way
that
would
be
more
traditional
in
the
19th
century,
which
would
be
along
the
streetway
there,
instead
of
set
back
in
the
pumps
being
in
front
of
it,
that
that
would
be
a
modification
that
would
improve.
In
my
opinion,
this
design
greatly.
F
There
is
also,
I
feel,
like
a
pedestrian
safety
issue
and
a
christie
alluded
to
the
traffic,
but
listen.
Those
of
us
who
live
in
this
neighborhood
know
that
that
intersection
of
heron
and
holt
is
a
mess,
because
holt
is
one
way
and
inherent
turns
right
there
as
you're
coming
up
the
the
entrance
ramp
people
think
they're
taking
a
right
on
red
when
in
fact,
they're
running
that
red
light,
and
you
see
it
if
you've
gone
that
way.
F
You
have
seen
people
do
that
and
that's
going
to
happen
except
this
time,
they're
going
to
run
that
light.
Thinking
that
they're
taking
a
right
on
red
and
then
take
a
left
into
that
filling
station.
I
mean
it's
going
to
be
a
mess
we
have
because
we're
across
the
street
from
another
filling
station
food
market,
a
fairly
big
homeless,
transient
population.
F
You
know,
there's
a
lot
of
pedestrian
traffic.
We
have
folks
in
neighboring
in
in
the
neighboring
neighborhoods,
who
may
not
have
a
vehicle
who
go
to
these
food
markets
just
for
a
loaf
of
bread,
there's
a
fair
amount
of
pedestrian
traffic
in
this
area.
So
that's
another
concern,
but
our
primary
one
is
both
for
the
neighborhood.
B
B
This
one
doesn't
really
have
anything
other
than
the
existing
building
to
conform
to,
but
we
know
what
the
traditional
commercial
form
looks
like,
and
that
is
pedestrian
access
at
the
sidewalk
and
the
smart
code.
Also,
if
they
stayed
in
form
based
zoning
called
for
the
pumps
to
be
behind,
so
you
would
have
a
pedestrian
front
at
the
sidewalk.
F
B
C
Well,
I
would
I
would
just
I
mean
I,
the
the
the
butchering
of
the
hill.
I
mean,
I
think
this
is
very
their
drawing
is
a
very
weak.
It
looks
like
a
nice
little
slope
here
with
some
nice
evergreens
at
that,
but
that
is
a
drastic
hill
drops
really
quickly.
So
I
I
I
don't
know
how
you
know
that
they
could
address
that.
I
mean
this.
A
F
A
F
G
G
I've
had
a
chance
to
look
at
the
documents
that
are
readily
available
and
I
do
know
a
few
things,
and
I
was
the
member
and
the
president
of
the
architectural
review
board
a
number
of
years
ago
when
the
world
was
young,
I
served
on
it
with
sadie
penn
and
jim
martineer
and
those
folks
back
in
the
day,
but
I'm
not
really
here
as
an
arb
type
representative
at
all.
That's
not
my
perspective.
G
G
My
perspective
is
that,
with
respect
to
the
gas
station,
the
chevron
station
that's
directly
across
the
interstate
from
where
this
location
is
the
old
gas
station.
That's
now
a
vacant
concrete
lot
in
that
same
neighborhood,
the
gas
station,
that
was
an
exxon
station
and
I've
actually
forgotten
what
brand
it
is
now
that's
located
on
what
is
that
lawrence
street
and
south
street
that
intersection
across
from
the
central
ymca?
G
G
I
understand
that
they
have
to
do
that
they're
in
a
position
in
life
where
they
have
to
do
it,
but
my
wife
and
I
decided
the
other
night
that
what
we
were
going
to
do
in
order
to
be
fair
about
this
was
to
get
in
our
car
and
go
to
the
existing
mapco
locations
in
montgomery
and
see
what
they
were
like.
You
can't
really
tell
anything
from
an
elevation.
G
I
know
that,
from
you
know,
an
architectural
drawing
we
wanted
to
see
what
they
were
like
on
the
ground
and
we
drove
to
the
first
of
these
locations
and
within
30
seconds
of
driving
onto
the
lot
we
encountered
two
derelicts
pulling
trash
out
of
the
trash
receptacles
at
the
map.
Co
station,
these
locations,
724
brightly,
lit
attract
that
kind
of
traffic.
G
The
difference
between
that
map,
co,
location
and
the
other
map
look
at
mapco
locations
that
we
went
to,
and
the
one
that's
proposed
is
that
this
is
the
first
one,
that's
on
the
edge
of
a
residential
neighborhood
where
people
actually
live
all
the
rest
of
those
are
strip
center
areas.
Everything
around
them
is
the
same
kind
of
construction,
the
same
kind
of
business.
This
is
different.
This
is
going
to
change
the
character
of
one
of
montgomery's,
most
significant
neighborhoods,
maybe
it'll,
be
a
big
change.
G
G
G
G
B
I
think
to
his
point,
one
of
the
things
that
I
keep
beating
my
head
against
the
wall
about
with
mapco
is
that
we
have
diametrically
opposed
needs.
For
me,
this
is
an
edge
and
preserving
the
edges
of
our
districts
are
very
important
because
that's
how
erosion
of
the
district
creeps
in
there
are
a
series
of
vacant
lots
on
this
stretch
between
here
and
the
capital
inn
that
could
be
assembled
and
become
a
mcdonald's.
B
If
this,
if
this
works
edges
are
extremely
important,
new
development
ideally
is
going
to
embrace
the
neighborhood
and
not
embrace
the
interstate,
which
is
what
they
want.
We
want
the
neighborhood.
We
want
low
visibility
inconspicuous
they
want
high
visibility,
so
people
will
come
by
gas.
You
know-
and
that's
that's
not
saying
that
that's
a
bad
thing.
B
You
won't,
you
won't
be
able
to
get
that
rezoning.
You
won't
be
able
to
comply
with
the
district
regulations
and
it's
held
so
far
because
the
edges
are
important,
but
I
don't
know
if
we'll
be
able
to
hold
it
moving
forward.
If
there's
not
consideration
of
that
given
here,
I
don't.
I
don't
know
that
we'll
have
a
leg
to
stand
on
without
arbitrary
and
capricious
decision
making.
G
I
I
can
tell
you,
after
practicing
law
for
a
pretty
considerable
period
of
time
years
ago,
if
you
make
a
change
like
this
every
day
after
that
you're
going
to
hear.
But
what
about
the
map
go
things
that
y'all
approved?
What
about
this?
Why
is
my
thing
different
from
this
you'll
hear
it
over
and
over
and
over
again,
and
eventually
you
won't
really
have
an
argument
to
contradict
it.
B
And
there's
a
distinction
between
development
and
good
development.
You
know
that
there
are
things
they
could
do
to
this
site
plan
that
would
tweak
it.
That
would
make
it
a
better
fit,
may
not
be
the
perfect
fit,
but
it
would
be
a
better
fit.
So
it's
not,
I
know,
joey.
You
said
some
folks
are
against
gas
stations.
B
Kind
of
kind
of
the
taking
that
absolutely
not
out
of
the
equation
takes
the
hysterical
out
of
historic
preservation,
because
it's
not
that
you're
saying
under
no
circumstances
would
that
will
we
stand
for
that
you're
saying
we
want
you
to
be
a
better
neighbor.
We
want
you
to
fit
in
with
what's
here
and
if
you
can
accommodate
that,
then
we'd
love
to
have
you,
and
I
think
you
stated
that
in
your
letter
that
you
would
love
for
this
to
be
a
good
infill
example
and
be
a
good
neighbor.
B
A
B
A
A
C
C
I
can't
really
add
much
to
what
mr
brackner
and
mr
upchurch
have
said
other
than
that.
If
this
goes
through,
it
would
not
only
be
a
very
bad
precedent
for
cottage
hill
and
change
the
very
nature
of
that
neighborhood,
but
that
it
could
then
be
used
to
want
to
make
changes
on
our
edges
or
even
in
the
center
of
our
neighborhood
as
well.
So
we
would
appreciate
you
considering
our
neighborhood
as
well
as
cottage
hill,
when
you
make
your
decision.
D
I
wanted
to
hear
from
the
community.
I
was
one
of
those
because
I
wanted
to
get
a
better
sense
of
where
the
community
is
staying.
I'm
troubled
that
this
project
just
had
so
little
actual
community
involvement
in
the
development
of
plans
and
and
that
back
code
doesn't
appear
to
be
listening
to
what
what
has
what
opposition
or
what
comments
have
been
made.
D
D
B
E
C
E
A
E
F
We
really
couldn't
stop
it,
I
mean
theoretically
or
there,
wouldn't
there
would
be
less
of
you
know.
So
if
there's
a
way
that
they
can
do
this
and
and
situated
in
a
way
as
a
retail
establishment
would
have
been
situated
in
the
19th
century
or
even
more
recently
than
that,
it
would
certainly
make
it
a
better
plan.
Now
there
are
people
in
the
neighborhood
who
don't
want
a
gas
station
at
all.
Jim
might
be
one
of
those
yeah
yeah.
F
There
are
several
that
don't
want
it
at
all,
I'm
speaking
only
from
board
discussions,
and
it
might
be
that
if
we
were
called
to
to
make
a
statement
on
a
future
plan,
they
might
show
up
and
oppose
that.
I
don't
know,
but
that's
that's
what
I
was
going
to
say,
but
I'd
just
so.
You
had
a
show
of
hands
of
people
who
are
opposed
to
gas
stations
period
who
are
opposed
to
this
plan.
C
F
F
H
B
F
B
B
We've
got
tree
removal
and
extensive
excavation,
that's
part
of
it.
That
also
has
to
be
approved,
and
then
we
get
to
the
new
building.
So
tomorrow
is
not
going
to
be
the
end
of
it
because
they're
nowhere
close
to
being
compliant
with
anything,
but
if,
if
there
is
a
sentiment
that
needs
to
be
expressed
tomorrow,
will
be
the
first
opportunity
to
do
so.
H
D
A
H
B
E
A
B
If
you
don't
want
to
come
and
see
it
in
person
and
again,
if,
if
anything
happens,
based
on
my
discussions
this
morning
with
them
regarding
traffic
issues
and
whether
or
not
they've
spoken
with
aldot
and
they
decide
to
delay
again,
just
be
looking
for
that,
I
will
let
everybody
know.
I
know
to
know
and
ask
that
you
share
that
with
anybody
else.
You
may
have
shared
this
information
with
us.
B
B
H
H
B
B
B
So
I
think
I
put
like
I
I
think
I
did.
We
put
the
soap
the
strategy
on
a
plate
on
a
page
in
your
packet.
You
should
have
gotten
something
for
camp,
which
is
the
national
alliance
of
preservation
commission's
training
program,
and
we
can
apply
for
grant
funds
to
do
this
and
they
have
a
couple
of
what
so
right
now
they
still
have
a
virtual
option,
they're
hoping
to
be
able
to
offer
an
in-person
option
later
this
spring
or
you
know,
after
sometime
after
late
spring.
B
So
this
is
something
that
I
would
like
you
all
to
say
we're
going
to
do
this
and
I've
I've
contacted
prattville
and
the
the
planner
in
pratt
bill.
He
said
they
did
one
virtually,
but
he
had
some
members
who
missed
it
so
it
I
would
certainly
open
it
up
regionally
because
we
do
have
some
communities
within
our
reach.
That
would
would
probably
benefit
from
this
as
well.
B
So
so
there
are
things
that
we
can
select
from,
or
you
know
it's
kind
of
the
the
standard
offerings
I've
been
to
a
couple
of
camps
and
they
always
have
really
good
and
well-versed
speakers.
I
think
because
of
where
we
are,
we've
had
a
preservation
law
attorney
that
teaches
at
university
of
georgia
and
someone
from
nashville
and
trying
to
think
of
who
else
presented.
C
B
So
moving
forward,
if
we
pursue
this,
I
need
to
I
need
to
get
something
approved
by
city
council,
so
we
can
apply
for
the
funds,
but
then
we'd
also
need
to
start
looking
at
times.
I
know
we've
got
several
folks
who
teach
so
probably
not
during
it.
Maybe
I
don't
know
if
summer's,
better
weekends
are
better.
I
know
football
season's
bad.
B
A
Comments,
anyone
all
right
christie.
I
think
this
plan
looks
real
good
and
it's
obvious
that
someone
put
a
lot
of
effort
in
compiling
this
information
getting
it
to
us.
So
we
can
see
what
is
involved,
and
I
hope
that
everybody
has
already
committed
him
or
herself
to
doing
xyz
to
make
it
work,
because
we're
going
to
need
some
people
to
really
thumb
down
and
do
some
work.
A
A
B
A
E
E
Like
around
february
and
or
march,
yes
for
women's
history
and
black
history
month,
just
the
history
of
montgomery
and
you
know
some
of
the
buildings
they
used
to
be
around.
And
I
was
going
to
talk
to
sarah
bb
buller,
who
has
the
map
program
where
they
they
already
have
it
over
at
the
crest.
But
they
can
come
here
and
set
it
up.
And
people
can
record
their
stories
during
the
time
that
we're
here
or
if
there's
some
other
way.
A
A
H
D
A
H
Well,
commissioner,
bailey
you
know,
christy
has
been
involved,
among
others,
in
a
number
of
oral
history
projects
over
the
years
since
I've
been
in
town,
and
so
certainly
I'm
not
dragging
christie
into
a
project
she
doesn't
want
to
be
on.
But
my
point
is:
is
that
there
is
an
infrastructure
in
place
to
do
these
sort
of
community
oral
history
projects.
We've
done
them
in
madison
park,
centennial
hill
pint
lala,
so
we've.
H
And
newtown
as
well,
so
my
point
is,
you
know:
we're
talking
about
february
now,
that's
getting
pretty
close
for
a
big
project
really
close
actually,
but
certainly
there's
an
infrastructure
in
place
for
some
sort
of
oral
history
project.
You
know
if
other
people
have
the
motivation
to
do
it,
so
something
to
think
about.
Yes,.
A
H
H
A
H
A
Yes,
in
other
words,
we
want
to
let
people
know
if
you
have
an
interesting
story
to
tell,
we
will
provide
a
forum
for
you
saying
something
for
a
couple
of
minutes
regarding
that
interesting
story,
those
persons
who
have
been
led
to
believe
there's
no
outlet
for
sharing
those
stories.
That's
what
we
really
send,
not
just
anybody
who
remembers
a
story
of
something
that
person
did
in
childhood.
That
only
has
significance
for
that
individual.
E
H
C
E
H
But
you
know
when
you
talk
about
spatial
sega.
Sorry,
I'm
sorry!
But
when
you
talk
about
spatial
segregation
in
the
south,
it's
different
than
the
north.
I
mean
you
know
at
least
until
the
mid
20th
century.
You
know
up
north.
You
see
a
hard
hard
segregation,
that's
perpetuated
by
redlining
and
so
forth,
which
happens
in
the
south
in
the
mid
20th
century
too,
but
prior
to
that
southern
communities
are
really
different,
because
you
know
you
have
the
back
of
the
house
where
the
help
lives
and
so
in
southern
communities.
H
E
H
And
so
when
you
have
claims
like
that,
that's
really
interesting
and
you
know
you
need
to
if
you
can
cross-reference
it
if
there's
another,
you
know
oral
history
is
a
legitimate
primary
source
for
sure
without
oral
histories,
we
wouldn't
have
a
lot
of
our
history
and
that's
how
certain
communities
do
keep
their
history
as
orally,
but
you
know
a
claim
like
that.
I
think
you
would
want
to
substantiate
it
with
at
least
one
other
source
right.
A
Okay,
all
right,
the
point
of
matter
is
when
I
gave
tours
of
cottage
hill.
I
gave
the
name
of
the
black
families
who
live
next
door
to
white
families
and
the
last
two
I
gave
a
cottage
hill.
I
actually
quoted
the
white
pastor
of
that
congregation
and
what
he
said
in
inviting
black
neighbors
to
come
to
that
church,
that
white
church
in
cottage
hill.
So
you
have
more
than
one
black
family
that
actually
lived
in
cottage
hill.
A
We
talked
about
the
1890s
in
cottage
hill
yeah
and
the
person
who,
on
that
tour
that
day
were
just
amazed
that
in
montgomery
alabama
in
the
1890s,
you
had
an
integrated
neighborhood,
and
that
goes
against
the
stereotype
of
what
montgomery
stood
for
and
what
the
south
stood
for.
But
we
had
it
right
here
in
cottage
hill
and,
as
I
said
before,
I
gave
the
name
of
those
families
that
lived
in
college
hill
adjacent
to
whites.
So.