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From YouTube: NCSL Redistricting Seminar | Ask Today's Experts
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A
This
is
the
closing
session
of
our
online
redistricting
seminar
and
it
is
scheduled
for
60
minutes
and
I'm
not
going
to
go
one
minute
past
that
because
it's
kind
of
getting
late
there
in
the
east
coast
so
stick
with
us.
I
have
a
few
little
housekeeping
things
and
then
we're
going
to
get
to
questions.
And
the
point
is
this:
is
a
session
about
questions.
A
So
if
we
don't
get
questions,
it's
going
to
be
a
lot
shorter
conversation,
so
let's
get
some
things
going
and
and
put
them
in
the
chat
box
and
we'll
try
to
handle
them
as
we
can.
I
know
I've
got
a
lot
of
experts
out
there
and
some
of
you
I've
already
identified
as
people
I
might
call
on,
and
some
of
you
may
not
know
that
you're
going
to
get
a
call
from
from
the
podium
here.
A
First,
I
want
to
thank
everybody
who
helped
us
make
this
meeting
work,
and
you
know
christy
zamarripa
and
you
know
ben
williams,
from
our
staff,
who
you
don't
know,
is
megan
keelan
and
ed,
green
and
orlando
poro.
These
folks
have
made
our
meeting
really
sing.
They
were
the
folks
who
were
behind
the
scenes.
Thank
you,
orlando.
Thank
you.
Megan.
It's
just
been
a
pleasure
to
work
with
these
folks
and
then
I
want
to
thank
our
sponsors.
I
think
you've
gotten
to
hear
from
them
twice
and
probably
connected
with
them
in
the
lobby.
A
I
will
say
that
these
are
folks
who
are
available
to
provide
advice
there
as
much
as
anything
else
that
they're
available
and
want
to
talk
with
you
all
so
be
in
touch,
and
if
you
need
help
getting
in
touch,
we
can
do
that
and
then
I
want
to
thank
our
faculty.
We've
had
people
generously
donate
their
time
to
us
and
and
that's
made
this
meeting
really
work.
A
So
I
believe,
earlier
today
there
was
an
online
survey
sent
out
to
all
of
you
and
if
you
would
clean
up
fill
that
out,
that
will
help
us
we're
still
kind
of
toying
with
that
question
about
whether
we
want
to
do
an
in-person
meeting
in
june
open
to
your
ideas
about
that
and
sorry.
A
The
two
exceptions
to
that
are
the
david
moss
presentation
this
morning
that
won't
be
available
again
and
the
trivia
from
last
night,
which
was
a
total
gas
for
those
of
you
who
are
able
to
participate
the
next
time
tim
storey's
going
to
do
this.
I
am
going
to
be
the
first
one
to
sign
up
and
I
have
to
admit
I've.
Let
two
or
three
opportunities
go
by
before,
but
I
won't
be
doing
that
in
the
future
and
then,
while
you're
thinking
about
questions
for
experts.
A
I
have
two
questions
for
you
and
I
hope
that
you
can
put
your
answers
in
the
chat
box
and
that
will
help
us
as
we
go
about
planning
our,
not
the
next
meeting.
But
what
the
work
will
be
doing
in
the
next
two
or
three
months
and
the
first
of
those
questions
is
which
of
you
know
that
your
state
will
be
using
a
special
session
to
do
redistricting
this
year.
I'm
guessing
it's
going
to
be
more
states
than
in
2011
because
of
the
delay
in
census
data.
A
But
if
we
already
know
that
it
would
be
helpful
for
us
to
get
that
in
under
control,
and
then
some
of
you
might
be
in
states
where
there's
a
really
cool
process
going
on
that.
I
don't
know
anything
about
around
public
input
or
public
outreach.
So
if
you
know
that
you've
got
a
really
cool
app
like
they
do
in
california
for
being
able
to
draw
what
you
think
is
your
community
of
interest
or,
like
montana,
does
with
its
system
based
on
story
maps,
we
want
to
know
about
that.
A
So
we
can
share
those
good
ideas
and
then
the
most
important
message
is
that
we
work
for
you.
That's
true,
at
least
if
you
are
in
a
legislature,
if
you're
a
legislator
or
legislative
staff.
So
please
do
call
on
us
for
testimony
for
specialized
research
or
for
pulling
together
whatever
it
is.
You
might
need,
okay
with
that,
I'm
going
to
go
to
the
questions
and
see
what
we've
got
in
here
and
I
really
haven't
been
able
to
look
yet.
A
Let's
see
what
we
got,
okay,
I'm
seeing
some
stuff
about
special
sessions
and
yeah
keith.
I
can
see
that
it
might
make
sense
for
you
to
have
a
special
session
new
york,
regular
session,
at
least
at
this
point.
I
guess
things
are
gonna
change
for
us.
Aren't
they
okay?
Well
guys,
you
gotta
ask
questions
or
maybe
make
a
comment,
and
you
all
this
time
have
the
ability
to
unmute
yourself.
A
B
Wendy,
could
I
just
give
an
answer
to
that
special
session
question
for
minnesota,
because
it.
B
B
Our
session
is
normally
over
by
the
third
week
in
may,
but
if
we
don't
get
data
until
july,
then
there's
no
way
we're
going
to
get
it
done
really
without
a
special
session,
unless
of
course
by
then
the
legislature
has
spent
enough
time
working
on
it
to
understand
that
they're
never
going
to
get
agreement
between
the
senate
and
the
house,
which
are
controlled
by
two
different
parties
and
they
have
given
up
and
the
courts
then
will
draw
the
plan.
B
A
So
you
made
a
good
point
that
I
hadn't
crossed
my
mind
before.
I
was
thinking
that
we
might
end
up
with
special
sessions
because
of
when
the
data
would
be
released,
and
I
think
you're
saying
with
many
legislators,
trying
to
figure
out
how
to
operate
in
the
time
of
covid,
with
some
delays
that
that
will
also
be
something
that
could
push
us
into
just
uncharted
territories.
If
not
necessarily
a
special
session.
A
Okay,
we
do
have
a
couple
of
questions
in
the
chat
box
now
there's
this.
It
says
by
the
45th
day
after
the
opening.
Oh
dear,
my
these
questions
jump
around
by
the
45th
day
after
the
opening
of
the
regular
session
of
the
general
assembly
in
the
second
year
following
every
census.
A
A
Or
peter,
if
you
think
you
can
you
know
what
that's.
B
I
guess
that
adeline
md
is
probably
not
a
medical
doctor,
but
she's,
probably
from
maryland.
B
And
I
don't
know
what
the
maryland
law
is
in
minnesota.
It
might
be
a
little
bit
different
because
we
have
a
constitutional
provision
that
says
the
the
legislative
days
are
counted
as
a
day
when
either
house
of
the
legislature
is
called
into
session.
B
C
And
wendy,
I'm
going
to
suggest
that
any
state
that
has
a
deadline
like
that
or
something
defining
x
number
of
days
upon
receipt
of
census,
data
that
might
need
to
consider
some
kind
of
court
action
to
to
figure
out
when
the
deadline
might
be.
California
had
a
situation
where
it
had
that
the
commission
there
had
to
have
its
first
planned
iterations
out
by
july
15th
and
the
the
legislature
tweaked
a
few
of
the
dates
by
statute.
C
But
then
the
speaker
and
the
senate
president
pro
tem
petitioned
the
california
state
supreme
court
to
extend
the
july
deadline,
which
is
in
the
constitution
to
december
15
2021
and
the
state
court
agreed
to
that.
Yes,
similarly,
voters
in
new
jersey
extended
redistricting
deadlines
from
february
march
2021
to
2023,
so
each
state
is
specific,
but
you've
got
to
think
outside
the
envelope
a
little
bit
and
look
to
see
if
you
need
court
action
to
determine
what
to
do.
If
you're
going
to
miss
the
deadline.
A
Thank
you.
We
have
a
question
from
amy,
keeley
and
jeff.
Why
don't
you
just
stay
with
me,
she's
asking
about
and
amy
you
might
be
prepared
to
come
on
board
and
ask
this
directly.
Is
there
a
certain
pers
exact
percentage
not
to
exceed
that
is
required
when
dividing
population
between
commissioner
districts?
So
what
I'm
hearing
there
is
that
maybe
these
are
county
commissions
where
you
might
have
three
commissioners,
but
I'm
not
quite
sure
amy.
Do
you
want
to
give
us
a
little
more
fill
in
and
then
jeff
respond.
D
Hi,
can
you
hear
me?
Yes,
we
do.
D
Good,
okay,
I'm
sorry,
I'm
yeah,
I'm
coming
from
the
gis
world,
I'm
the
gis
manager
for
eagle,
county
colorado,
and
I
just
remember
this
from
10
years
ago.
I
was,
I
just
couldn't
remember
if
there's
statutorily
a
like
a
percentage
that
we're
supposed
to
try
to
aim
for
when
dividing
the
population
between
the
three
we
have
three
commissioner
districts
for
eagle
county,
and
I
just
before
the
this
week
is
up.
I
wanted
to
just
sort
of
throw
that
question
out
there
and
ask
if
anybody
knew
the
answer.
Sure.
C
I
could
help
you
with
that,
unless
your
county
statute
indicates
something
otherwise
the
court,
the
supreme
court
allows
an
overall
deviation
of
up
to
ten
percent
that
could
be
plus
five
minus
five
plus
seven
minus
three,
but
the
difference
from
the
largest
district
to
the
smallest
district
w3
can't
differ
by
more
than
ten
population.
A
E
Jeff,
how
you
doing
hello,
everyone,
good
conference.
I
appreciate
having
the
opportunity
to
spend
some
time
with
you
virtually
jeff
at
one
point
during
the
present
one
of
your
presentations,
you
mentioned
that
you
speculated
that
the
census
might
not
be
able
to
provide
its
april
first
deadline
until
july
is,
is
that
is
that
really
a
possibility
I'll.
C
This
is
what
they
told
a
federal
court
in
california
in
the
last
few
days,
the
work
on
pl94
171
data
won't
really
start
until
after
the
state
of
population
totals
are
completed.
Now,
with
the
biden
administration
coming
in
in
13
days
and
with
the
with
congress,
then
being
able
to
talk
to
the
census
bureau.
For
the
first
time
in
four
years,
questions
are
going
to
be
asked
of
the
professionals
of
the
bureau.
What
do
you
need
to
do,
and
when
can
you
do
it
be
honest
about
it?
C
This
is
information
they
haven't
had
access
to.
So
I
think
at
that
point
in
time,
sometime
after
january,
20th
we'll
get
a
clearer
idea
from
the
census
bureau
as
to
what
they
can
do
and
do
accurately
now.
The
july
date
is
mentioned
for
the
pl
94171
data
delivery,
because
that's
the
original
date
that
president
trump
asked
to
extend
the
whole
census
process
and
the
statutory
deadlines.
C
The
trump
administration
reversed
gears
back
in
july,
but
the
house
of
representatives
is
is
on
record
in
the
hero
act.
They
passed
back
in
may
supporting
an
extension
of
the
apportionment
to
to
april
and
the
data
delivery
until
july.
Those
may
still
be
viable
dates.
We'll
have
to
find
out.
C
I
do
suggest
that
you
let
your
congressional
delegation
know
your
concerns,
but
the
one
thing
you
don't
want
to
hear
back
is:
oh
we'll
find
out,
don't
worry
about
it,
we'll
take
care
of
it,
they're
not
going
to
know
I've
been
through
that
in
a
few
states
already,
but
we
honestly
don't
have
an
answer
now,
except
that
you
know,
events
have
to
play
out,
but
I
would
not
expect
april
first
date
of
delivery
by
any
means.
C
Right
now,
and
I
just
asked
if
kim
reyes
is
on
the
the
call
here,
if
he
could
add
anything
to
that.
F
E
All
right:
well,
that's
really
good
news.
I've
been
advising
our
our
legislature
that
I
thought
it
would
be
unlikely
that
they
would
meet
the
deadline.
I
didn't
know
how
long
that
they
would
be
delayed
but
speculated
a
month,
maybe
six
weeks,
but
maybe
I'm
not
even
a
third
of
the
way
there
with
with
that
kind
of
prediction.
So.
C
G
E
You
each
other,
as
you
know,
utah
did
some
preload
preliminary
work
on
differential
privacy.
We
produced
a
little
bit
of
a
report
that
frankly
scared
us
a
little
bit
in
one
of
your
presentations.
You
mentioned
that
differential
privacy
is
not
going
to
be
a
big
deal
to
kind
of
take
a
deep
breath
and
don't
worry
about
it.
D
Sure
sure
yeah-
and
I
I
guess
I
don't
mean
to
say
it's
not
going
to
be
a
big
deal.
It
remains
to
be
seen
how
it's
going
to
play
out
last
I
heard
the
so-called
epsilon
budget
hadn't
been
set
yet,
and
that's
going
to
have
a
lot
of
influence
on
how
big
of
a
magnitude
effect
we
observe.
So
the
the
study
that
my
lab
has
been
doing,
for
I
guess
a
year
now
and
are
struggling.
D
You
know
trying
to
finalize
what
we
took
a
look
at
was:
how
much
are
the
the
noise
levels
on
the
counts?
Gonna
make
it
harder
to
do
voting
rights
act
enforcement
for
instance,
so
that
was
a
worry
that
we
heard
from
a
lot
of
practitioners
that,
if
you're
trying
to
detect
racially
polarized
voting,
if
you
put
random
noise
on
all
the
numbers,
then
even
where
there's
a
signal
of
a
differential
between
racial
groups.
D
That
signal
might
disappear
because
of
the
noise,
and
so
we
we
got
up
in
the
census
code,
we
were
able
to
figure
out
how
to
actually
run
top
down
their
their
algorithm,
not
just
a
model
of
it,
but
their
actual
algorithm
tried
it
on
a
lot
of
data
from
real
recent
cases,
and
what
we
found
in
our
study
is
that
the
the
way
that
they
do,
the
noising
hierarchically
from
top
to
bottom,
with
the
the
so-called
workload
that
they
have,
in
other
words,
how
they
distribute
the
budget
over
different
questions
that
are
going
to
be
asked.
D
We
found
that
as
long
as
you
when
you're
running
your
ecological
regression
or
ecological
inference
as
long
as
you
trim
out
very
small
precincts
precincts
with
under
10
votes,
if
you
trim
those
out,
you
get
all
the
same
signal
as
you
did
without
the
noising
okay.
So
this
is
a
case
in
the
in
the
computer
science.
D
D
But
what
we
found
just
to
summarize
is
that
in
particular,
we
looked
at.
We
looked
at
racial
polarization
and
we
found
that
the
distortion
effects
are
much
much
less
than
you'd
get
by
adding
random
noise
in
a
more
naive
way.
So
the
way
the
census
is
doing,
the
noising
is
actually
much
more
protective
of
some
of
the
information
that
we
need
to
do.
Voting
rights,
work
well,
I'll,
give
you
the
second
finding,
because
I
think
it's
a
maybe
of
particular
interest
in
this
group
because
we're
thinking
about
drawing
the
lines.
D
So
a
second
thing
that
we
asked
ourselves
is
so
the
bureau
is
doing
hierarchical,
noising,
which
means
first,
they
noise,
the
states.
Then
they
noise,
the
counties,
then
they
noise,
the
tracts
and
so
on
down
to
blocks,
but
the
things
that
we
as
redistricting
practitioners
care
about
are
districts
and
those
aren't
census
geographies.
Those
are
geographies
that
we
draw
after
we
get
the
census
numbers
as
you've
been
emphasizing,
and
so
we
wondered
how
much
inaccuracy
is
there
going
to
be
in
district
level
measurements
right,
that's
a
crucial
question.
D
I
think,
for
this
crowd
and
here's
what
we
found.
We
found
that
the
best
way
to
to
ensure
that
you
get
greatest
accuracy
on
your
districts
is
to
make
the
districts
out
of
bigger
pieces,
and
this
was
probably
kind
of
a
topic
in
the
air
anyway,
if
you
make
your
districts
out
of
blocks
with
no
regard
to
the
higher
level
geographies,
you
are
going
to
get
more
inaccuracy
generated
by
differential
privacy,
but
the
more
you
adhere
to
kind
of
the
bigger
geographies
in
the
census.
The
more
accurate
your
numbers
are
going
to
be.
D
I
like
that
message,
because
I
think
probably
many
of
us
would
agree
it's
a
good
practice
anyway.
Of
course,
we're
going
to
need
to
tune
things
at
the
block
level,
but
to
to
start
thinking
about
the
districts
in
terms
of
bigger
units
before
you
tune
was
probably
already
always
a
good
practice.
Now
it
has
the
additional
benefit
that
it's
going
to
give
you
more
accurate
counts.
E
That's
helpful,
thank
you.
Did
you
do
any
I
mean.
Certainly
the
racial
issue
is
is
critically
important
for
for
many
many
states,
not
so
much
in
utah,
but
not
that
it
it's
not
insignificant.
It
is
important.
E
D
So
I
know
of
really
good
work
in
that
direction
by
sam,
petty
and
a.b
flaxman.
Have
you
seen
that
study
and
so
I'd
be
happy
to
make
that
connection?
The
urban
rural
question
wasn't
a
particular
focus
in
in
our
study,
but
I
would
say
also
we
took
it
took
us
six
months
to
get
good
at
running
the
bureau
program.
So
if
anybody
here
has
a
question
and
you'd
like
us
to
test
it,
we
can
run
the
real
algorithm
on
your
question.
D
A
This
has
been
so
amazing
to
hear
you
talk
this
week
and
I'm
wondering
if
the
census
bureau
has
hired
you
to
explain
their
stuff
or,
if
not,
why
not?
Certainly.
D
They've
certainly
thanked
us
for
helping
find
some
bugs
in
their
code,
so
I
was
pleased
about
that
and
we
just
got.
We
just
got
contact
in
the
last
week
from
the
government
of
singapore
asking
they
want
to
learn
to
run
it
as
well.
So
I
think,
like
the
the
time
invested
in
figuring
out
how
to
actually
run
differential
privacies
is
going
to
pay
off
and
again
we'd
love
to
share
that
expertise
with
anyone
here.
Yeah.
A
I
think
you
I,
I
already
had
a
note
that
you
and
I
should
talk
next
week,
so
I
can
understand
a
little
bit
better
but
there's
another
question
and
then
I'm
going
to
come
to
your
question
mickey.
I
promise
I'm
going
to
get
there
and
that
is
that
these
census
numbers
matter
not
just
for
redistricting,
but
they
matter
for
the
distribution
of
money
and
that
that
might
be
the
bigger
thing
overall,
maybe
not
for
the
people
who
are
on
this
call.
A
But
that's
where,
if
you
say
a
small
town
is
2500
people
and
it
really
has
3
500
people,
that's
a
significant
amount
of
money
that
that's
different.
So
any
any
thoughts
about
that.
D
Yeah,
no,
I
think
that
that's
that's
quite
right.
The
it's
just
going
to
be
so
hard
to
know
how
much
those
distortions
will
be
till
we
get
that
budget.
You
know
that
word
keeps
getting
thrown
around,
but
what
that
means
is
there's
this
parameter
epsilon
and
the
bigger
it
is,
the
the
the
more
accurate
and
the
smaller
it
is,
the
more
private.
In
other
words,
the
more
kind
of
I
think,
probably
everyone
here
knows
why
the
bureau
is
doing
this.
D
It's
that,
if
you
don't
noise
the
data
today,
computers
can
just
reconstruct
their
whole
personal
level
database
right,
and
that
means
the
ability,
if
you
pair
it
with
commercial
data,
to
have
your
name
and
everything.
You
told
the
bureau
and
that's
a
little
bit
scary
for
the
decennial
form
and
that's
more
scary
for
the
acs
that's
coming
up,
which
will
also
be
privatized
right
in
in
about
five
years.
D
I
think
is
the
latest
plan
so
until
we
know-
and
that's
a
decision
that's
being
made
by
an
unknown
to
me
group
of
policy
makers
and
I'm
not
sure
exactly
when
that's
happening,
but
so
much
will
depend
on
whether
epsilon
is
one
or
ten,
and
I
think
everything
that
I'm
hearing
out
of
the
bureau
is
they're
hearing
so
much
anxiety
from
stakeholders,
including
about,
as
you
say,
about
the
allocation
of
resources.
I
think
they're
going
to
go
with
a
really
high
epsilon
that
the
theoretical
computer
scientists
will
scratch
their
heads
at.
A
Okay
last
question:
for
you,
moon,
and
that
is
from
nikki
she's
asking
when
you
said
about
building
with
larger
units.
Well,
if
you're
running
council
districts,
how
do
you
do
that.
D
Yeah,
so
this
is
this
is
an
interesting
point.
I
think
the
initial
intention
of
the
bureau
was
to
its
top
down
was
going
to
be
done
on
this,
the
central
spine
of
census
data.
So
that's
the
the
six
levels
from
nation
to
state
county
tract
block
group
block.
D
It's
towns
and
cities
that
matter,
and
so
the
the
bureau
is
talking
about
moving
to
a
regional
hierarchy
where
the
the
units
of
geography
that
are
used
in
the
algorithm
would
be
tailored
to
what
matters
in
your
part
of
the
country.
I
don't
know
yet,
if
they're
still,
there
they're
hedging
a
little
bit
on
how,
when
they
press,
go
on
this
census,
how
that
will
be,
but
if
they
stick
with
their
original
plan,
to
use
the
central
hierarchy
central
spine.
D
What
that
means
mickey
is
that
you
should
use
block
groups
when
you
can
use
tracks
when
you
can,
depending
on
the
size
of
your
city
council.
Try
to
keep
block
groups
whole
try
to
keep
track
whole
if
you
can
and
the
more
integrity
that
you
have
in
that
spine.
The
less
distortion
you'll
get
out
of
dp.
Does
that?
Does
that
answer
your
question.
A
That
made
a
fair
amount
of
sense
that
you
like,
if
you're
going
to
build
a
nation,
why
not
build
it
out
of
states
you're
going
to
build
so
so?
Okay,
great,
let's
see
I've
got
a
question
that
I'm
going
to
ask
john
heining
to
handle.
A
If
he
can,
apart
from
going
to
court
and
seeking
an
extension
like
in
california,
are
there
any
other
options
that
a
state
should
consider
if
the
census
delay
will
make
it
unlikely
or
impossible
for
the
state
to
both
use
the
census
data
and
meet
a
constitutional
deadline
for
redistricting?
This
question
has
sort
of
come
again
and
again
because
we're
all
in
this
uncertain
time
period.
John,
do
you
have
any
thoughts
about
that?
What
states
could
do
based
on
they
have
a
deadline
and
they're
going
to
miss
it,
because
the
data
isn't
there.
B
No,
I
I
you
know
we're
all
kind
of
stuck
in
that
situation.
Right,
yeah,
there's
just
there
aren't
a
whole
lot
of
ways
to
compel
the
federal
government
to
to
comply
with
its
duties,
and
so,
if
they're,
if
they're
not
going
to
do
it
if
they're
not
going
to
meet
their
deadline,
you
know
you
know
we
you
can.
You
can
try
and
they
miss
these
guys,
but
I
I'll
they're
just
going
to
say
that
they
can't
do
the
work.
So
no,
I
don't.
I
don't
think,
there's
very
much.
A
You
know,
john,
I
was
thinking
that
it's
almost
a
parallel
to
the
fact
that
the
census
bureau
missed
the
federal
statutory
deadline
for
apportionment.
What's
the
consequence,
nothing
they
couldn't
do
it
and
they
didn't
do
it
and
not
a
peep
out
of
congress.
So
maybe
it's
like
that.
A
Here's,
a
follow-up
on
that
question
and
if
john
you
can
handle
it,
that's
great
and
if
somebody
else
wants
to
pop
in
that's
great
too,
I
would
would
there
be
any
benefit
to
using
non-census
data
to
conduct
legislative
redistricting
so
that
you
could
get
it
done
by
the
constitutional
deadline
or
contemplate
keeping
the
maps
that
you've
got
for
an
extra
cycle
which
seems
very
likely
to
have
a
one
person.
One
vote
consequence.
B
B
Probably
you
could
do
that,
but
the
then
the
question
gonna
be
the
reliability
of
the
data
and
and
to
what
extent
you
actually
went
out
there
to
try
and
do
it
and
then,
on
top
of
that
it
you're
talking
about
something,
that's
incredibly
expensive.
So
I
I
don't
know
you
know.
Maybe
some
other
folks
have
some
other
opinions
about
this,
but
you
know,
like
you
know,
certainly
you
know
my
state.
C
Now,
wendy,
I
would
also
suggest
that,
if
you're
looking
to
use
an
alternative,
an
alternative
to
the
census,
the
the
earliest
supreme
court
case
on
that
was
the
1964
case
of
burns
versus
richardson.
That
talked
about
using,
I
think,
with
registered
voters.
Instead
of
the
census
data
and
the
court,
there
found
that
the
alternate
census
database
matched
up
pretty
rationally
across
the
board.
C
C
C
Well,
it's
it's
january
2021
and
there's
a
lot
of
work
and
spending
to
be
done
to
get
to
that
point
which
probably
isn't
realistic.
B
F
The
the
one
caveat
on
on
that
is
that
there
are
commercially
available
data
sets
they
produce
those
every
year
and
they
may
give
you
some
broad
range
ideas
on
where
you
might
think
about
planned
drawing.
I
wouldn't
recommend
it
to
be
the
final
piece
that
you
use,
but
certainly
for
some
preliminary
drafting.
A
Got
it?
Thank
you,
sam
hirsch,
I'm
coming
to
you.
I
have
a
question
asking
basically
about
now
that
both
chambers
of
the
congress
are
held
by
democrats.
Are
you
willing
to
speculate
on
what
might
happen
with
hr1
and
hr4,
starting
with,
of
course,
describing
what
those
two
things
are
and
then
keith?
If
you
have
any
comments
you
want
to
make
afterwards
on
that
question,
I'd
be
happy
to
hear
from
you
as
well.
H
I
am
so
hr.
One
is
an
omnibus
election
reform
package
that
contains
lots
of
different
voting
and
election
reforms,
including
independent,
registering
commissions
for
congressional
redistricting,
as
well
as
criteria
that
would
apply
to
those
commissions.
H
If,
if
hr
one
passes,
it
seems
you
know
to
pass
the
house
in
the
last
congress
and
not
the
senate
seems
likely
again
to
pass
the
house.
H
I
believe
that
the
commission
piece
will
be
for
the
2031
cycle
and
the
criteria
piece
will
apply
to
this
cycle,
but
but
I'm
not
certain
of
that,
I
believe
it
has
not
yet
been
introduced.
It
certainly
has
not
been
passed
and.
H
In
the
senate,
there's
the
challenge
of
of
you
know
the
fact
that
when
it
passed
the
house
last
congress,
it
was
pretty
close
to
a
party-line
vote
and
the
senate's
50-50.
H
H
Can
can
pass
with
50
votes
and
other
things
are
filibusterable
and
therefore
need
60..
So
so
I
don't
really
know
what
the
senate
prospects
are
hr.
4
is
a
voting
rights
act
set
of
amendments
that
would,
among
other
things,
create
a
new
coverage
formula
to
determine
which
states
and
political
subdivisions
would
be
subject
to
pre-clearance
under
section
5
of
the
voting
rights
act,
which
basically
prevents
states
and
subdivisions
from
making
changes
their
voting
laws
that
are
retrogressive
with
respect
to
minority
voting
power.
H
So
you
know
again,
I
think,
there's
interesting
it'll
get
reintroduced
in
some
form
in
this
congress
and
we'll
probably
get
a
favorable
reception
on
the
house
side
and
again
on
the
senate
side.
I
think
a
lot
depends
on
on
what
can
be
attached
to
which
to
which
vehicles
and
what
can
make
it
past
the
filibuster
requirement,
as
well
as
potentially
meeting
unanimity
among
50
senate
democrats.
H
Well,
I
just
want
to
say
reflecting
on
a
couple
points
made
earlier,
one
with
regard
to
the
census
and
the
other
with
regard
to
differential
privacy
specifically
on
the
census.
Obviously,
they've
missed
a
deadline
and
they
almost
certainly
will
miss
another
deadline
and
those
are
responsibilities
that
unfortunately,
they're
not
able
to
satisfy,
but
they
also
have
statutory
responsibilities
to
have
a
census.
That's
accurate
and
complete
and
those
two
things.
H
The
the
timing,
deadlines
and
the
accuracy
and
completeness
deadlines
are
in
in
probably
irreconcilable
tension
right
now,
because
the
pandemic
and
everything
that
flowed
from
the
pandemic
so
just
to
try
to
in
fairness
to
them.
It's
not
just
that
they're
blowing
through
one
statutory
requirements
that,
if
they
didn't
they
would
mess
up
another
and,
I
think,
quite
clearly,
more
important
one,
which
is
actually
having
a
good
census
on
differential
privacy.
H
Listening
to
moon
reminds
me
that
maybe
it's
time
for
some
folks
in
the
legal
community
to
rethink
two
of
what
I
think
are
the
two
of
the
silliest
rules
in
redistributing
law,
one
that
that
doesn't
necessarily
require,
but
tends
to
incentivize
states
to
try
to
drive
their
population
deviations
and
their
congressional
maps
down
to
a
single
person,
which
has
always
been
a
bit
absurd
and
it's
highly
constraining
in
a
sort
of
silly
way,
and
if
the
numbers
are
fuzzed
up,
it
gets
even
sillier
to
to
try
to
meet
that.
H
Because
what
exactly
are
you
requiring
and
another
to
me
really
silly
and
unfortunate
legal
rule?
That
also
seems
to
require
perfection
and
data.
That's
never
been
perfect
is
the
one
that
distinguishes
a
plaintiff
in
a
voting
rights
act,
section
two
case
from
submitting
a
map
that
is
50.0001
black
and
maybe
prevailing
versus
another
plaintiff,
who
submits
a
map.
That's
49.999
percent,
black
or
latino,
and
loses
automatically
again
if,
if
the
numbers
frankly
have
never
been,
and
certainly
after
differential
privacy
will
not
in
the
future,
be
so
accurate.
H
A
That
is
a
very
excellent
thing
to
carry
forward
and
we'll
see
whether
people
are
able
to
change
that.
I
feel
like
we're
at
the
start
of
redistricting
and
and
to
have
that
conversation
might
only
come
before
court.
If
some
states
say
we're
done
with
these
two
silly
rules
and
then
see
what
the
courts
say.
Another
thing
that
crossed
my
mind,
sam
with
what
you
talked
about,
is
that
virtually
everything
that's
of
interest
in
public
policy
is
because
two
very
good
values
are
in
conflict
with
each
other.
A
That
is
what
makes
things
complex
and
interesting
michael
lee.
If
you
are
willing
to
jump
in
on
anything
about
hr1
and
hr4,
I
think
you
did
talk
about
it
in
one
of
your
earlier
sessions,
but
we
couldn't
all
be
everywhere.
So
take
a
moment.
G
Yeah,
I
I
think,
there's
still
a
lot
of
deciding
what
you
know
like
what
is
like
feasible
at
this
juncture,
because
I
think
the
reality
is
that
we
likely
are
going
to
live
in
a
60-vote
world,
and
you
know,
I
think,
when
you
talk
to
people
on
the
hill-
and
you
know,
I
think
I
don't
think
anyone
was
like.
I
think
most
democrats
even
were
like
we're
not
going
to
win
the
two
seats.
G
G
You
know
that
you
know,
I
think
a
lot
of
the
discussion
leading
up
to
this
was
to
you,
know,
bifurcate,
and
have
the
criteria
and
some
transparency
be
effective
for
2021
and
including
a
ban
on
partisan
gerrymandering
and
have
the
rest
the
commissions
be
effective
for
2031..
That's
not
how
the
bill
currently
is
drafted.
It
all
is
now
effective
in
2031,
but
I
assume
now
that
we're
in
this
world
there
will
be
an
amendment
introduced
to
buy
for
k.
G
But
again
we
have
to
see
like
whether
that
can
get
60
votes
or
not,
and
what
the
time
frame
is
because
obviously
redistricting
is
going
to
take
place.
Now,
it's
you
know,
and
so
you
know
you
know,
you
know
how
that
moves
forward,
whether
it's
part
of
hr1
or
whether
it's
bifurcated
out,
I
don't
know
and
as
to
hr
4.
I
I
think
actually
there
might
be
more
momentum
around
like.
I
think
there
is
some
sense
that
hr
4
might
be
more
of
a
candidate
to
get
60
votes
than
you
know.
G
A
Got
it?
Thank
you,
blake
you're
up.
The
question
is
about
count,
question
resolution
and
for
those
of
you
who
don't
know
it,
the
census
does
provide
a
mechanism
for
people
to
challenge.
I
guess
you'd
say
the
data
that
the
census
put
out
and
I
don't
know
much
about
it
like
if
you
know
something
about
it.
Let's,
let's
get
you
in
on
this
and
if
not
we'll,
go
to
kim.
B
Yeah
I
just
thanks
wendy,
I
just
know
a
very
little
bit
in
a
previous
incarnation.
I
worked
in
local
government
and
was
a
census
bureau
liaison,
but
we
never
actually
participated
in
that,
so
I
would
ask
for
for
someone
else,
who's
got
more
experience
with
it
to
weigh
in.
F
F
They
do
put
up
those
resolutions
up
on
their
website,
but
you
know
somebody
doing
redistricting
mid-decade
or
something
usually
isn't
going
to
be
looking
for
that
sort
of
thing.
So
it's
a
it's
a.
It
is
a
mechanism,
but
it's
not
something.
That's
going
to
change
anything
that
all
of
us
on
the
pl
file.
Side
of
things
are
really
going
to
be
able
to
make
use
of.
A
F
It
can,
but
usually
most
of
the
account
resolutions
are
real
small.
It's
it's
that
college
dorm
that
was
missed
or
or
the
building
that
was
missed,
or
something
like
that.
Some
of
them
can
be
a
little
bit
more
consequential.
F
A
Great
we've
got
quite
a
lot
here
on
the
count
question
resolution
mike
fortner.
Would
you
like
to
come
on,
live
and
tell
us
about
your
sure.
I
Yeah
back
in
2001,
I
was
elected
the
mayor
of
the
city
of
west
chicago
illinois,
and
I
had
observed
in
the
dataset.
We
were
going
to
go
through
our
ward
redistricting
at
the
time,
and
I
noticed
that
one
of
our
apartment
complexes
had
been
miscoded
so
that
the
census
block
that
it
population
was
assigned
to
was
an
unincorporated
railroad,
parcel
adjacent
to
the
actual
parcel
that
had
the
place.
This
was
you
know,
150
people
or
so
living
in
this
in
this
particular
building
and
we
filed
it.
I
We
filed
the
appropriate
paperwork
to
the
census
to
have
that
resolved.
It
didn't
change
any
of
the
official
files,
but
the
paperwork
they
sent
not
only
came
to
us.
We
used
that
block
correctly
in
our
ward
remap.
It
was
important
because
that
particular
building
was
about
90
percent
latino,
so
getting
that
right
was
going
to
be
important
so
that
we
could
withstand
any
challenges
to
how
we
did
that
aspect
of
our
remap,
but
also
that
paperwork
went
to
the
illinois
secretary
of
state
that
kept
the
master
list
of
the
population
of
every
city.
I
That
was
reflected
as
a
change
in
the
base
count
for
doing
their
future
estimates
and
in
terms
of
funding
it
did
go
to
the
state.
So
we
got
going
forward
some
of
the
funds
that
were
distributed
on
a
per
capita
basis.
We
got
the
corrected
amount
of
money
going
forward,
so
it
was
really
worthwhile
to
make
sure
that
all
of
our
blocks
were
appropriately
geocoded
in
and
around
the
perimeters
of
the
town.
J
Yes,
by
no
mean
any
kind
of
expert
information,
mostly
just
wanted
to
share
that
we
will
have
some
cqr
experts
who
will
be
touching
on
the
question
of
cqr
sorry,
this
is
miki
noguchi
from
the
national
league
of
cities.
I
run
our
census
program
so
next
week
we're
hosting
a
webinar
we'll
have
susan
straight
from
the
university
of
massachusetts,
who
is
will
be
sort
of
using
the
case
study
of
college
towns
to
show
how
dramatic
some
of
those
population
changes
do
specifically
to
the
pandemic.
J
You
know,
could
impact
sort
of
final
count
numbers?
This
is
particularly
concerning
at
the
city
level
and
in
these
college
towns,
where
they
just
saw
massive
exodus
of
students
in
march
snowbird
towns
will
also
have
seen
similar
impacts.
The
canada,
the
country
of
canada,
basically
issued
a
statement
to
all
of
its
citizens
that
were
outside
of
the
country
like
if
you're,
not
back
in
canada
by
march
31st.
J
You
won't
be
covered
by
national
health
insurance
for
anything
covert
related,
so
pretty
much
everybody,
every
canadian
flew
back
north
so,
but
we
will
have
experts
on
who
it
will
not
be
the
main
focus
of
the
webinar,
but
they
will
be
speaking
a
little
bit
towards
the
end
of
it
about
cqr.
So
if
you
have
questions
around
that,
it
will
be
denise
ross
from
the
beck
center
georgetown
national
conference
on
citizenship,
and
she
was
also
a
consultant
on
the
transition
team
for
census.
So
she'd
be
able
to.
J
You
know
address
more
specifically
some
of
these
questions
around
cqr.
If
you
have
them-
and
I
put-
I
put
the
link
the
registration
link
into
the
chat-
I
can
pop
it
in
there
again.
J
Absolutely
the
focus
is,
you
know,
certainly
at
the
city
level,
so
just
something
to
keep
in
mind
and
our
target
audience
is
municipalities,
local
elected
officials
and
municipal
staff.
So,
but
obviously
anyone
who
who
wants
to
join
is
welcome.
A
I
want
to
offer
to
all
of
you
a
little
question
you
can
think
about
it
for
just
a
moment,
and
that
is
the
2030
census
is
soon
going
to
be
under
construction
and
in
fact,
I
think,
there's
probably
some
amount
of
work
already
going
on
in
an
earlier
session
today
I
heard
a
couple
of
ideas
about
things
that
might
be
different,
but
I'm
going
to
ask
people
what
they
what
they
think
should
be
different
in
the
future.
A
Let's
see
what
else
we
got
and
ryan,
I
your
question
was
about
whether
the
year
ending
and
one
could
be
reinterpreted
peter.
Can
you
get
on
and
respond
to
that
question.
A
B
Yeah,
I
think
it
I
think
it's
fairly
common
among
the
states
to
have
a
deadline
based
on
the
year
after
the
census,
and
I
think,
if
the
census
isn't
actually
done
until
sometime
later,
courts
would
be
very
supportive
of
allowing
a
delay
in
a
deadline.
But
I
don't
know
that
you'd
want
to
go
forward
without
having
some
kind
of
a
court
action.
B
A
B
That's
how
some
state
constitutions
or
laws
read
others
have
a
different
phrasing,
it's
not
quite
the
same
and
and
whatever
it
is
whatever
delay.
You
think
you
need
I'm
suggesting
that
you
plan
to
have
a
little
court
action
that
that
gives
you
approval
to
do
that
all
right.
So
if
there's
any
doubt
yeah.
A
Yes,
it's
been
a
crazy
time.
Okay,
so
now
who's
got
some
thoughts
about
this
2030
census.
What
I
mean
if
we
were
going
to
start
drafting
a
not
that
we're
doing
this,
this
is
a
dream
draft,
not
a
real
draft.
If
we
were
going
to
make
some
suggestions
on
what
the
2030
census
would
include,
what
would
that
be?.
C
Wendy
can
I
offer
suggestions.
I
think
what
we
saw
based
on
the
efforts
for
the
2020
census,
that
weren't
successful
you'll
see
efforts
to
require
prisoner
reallocation
data
be
provided,
providing
the
addresses
of
prisoners
prior
to
incarceration.
C
I
think
you'll
see
questions
involving
gender
lgbtq
questions
that
weren't
fully
yes
settled.
The
last
go-around
also
the
question
about
the
middle
eastern
north
america
category
that
was
not
agreed
to.
You
also
might
see
an
effort
about
citizenship
data
coming
from
some
quarters,
although
I
doubt
at
least
next
four
years
that
will
be
successful,
but
it
does
take
four
or
five
years
to
add
a
question
or
change
the
formatting.
G
I
I
would
add,
in
addition
to
what
jeff
said,
I
think
that
on
the
ethnicity,
you
also
might
see
something
that
the
bureau
I
think,
came
close
to
during
this
time,
which
is
like
putting
latino
at
the
same
level
as
the
the
racist
you
know
just
sort
of
a
fused
race
and
ethnicity
checkbox,
and
so,
instead
of
answering
two
questions.
G
What
is
your
reason,
then,
whether
you're,
latino
or
not,
or
hispanic
or
not
you'll,
just
have
one
which
I
think
aligns
more
with
how
a
lot
of
latinos,
particularly
in
places
like
texas,
see
themselves.
They
don't
see
themselves
as
white
or
black
or
anything
like
that.
They
see
themselves
as
latino
distinctively.
A
F
Certainly
in
montana,
particularly,
we
have
a
large
rural
populations
about
25
percent
that
we
sign.
We
rely
on
p.o
boxes
so
where
everybody
else
in
the
state
got
a
mailing
on
that
prior
to
the
april,
first
deadline
begin
getting
in
the
process.
F
People
on
indian
reservations
are
in
small
rural
communities,
never
got
that
invitation
this
year
until
august,
and
it
just
seems
like
there's
an
awful
lot
of
extra
effort
to
go
back
in
there
and
and
contact
these
people.
When
simply
something
could
be
done,
you
know,
I,
you
know,
send
out
to
a
po
box
and
the
person
who
can
then
contact
at
least
the
census
and
begin
to
get
into
the
process
and
go
through
that.
But
just
you
know,
leaving
that
created
incredible
problems
in
montana
nationally.
F
A
I
I
it
strikes
me
that
geocoding,
which
is
a
word
that
came
up
once
or
twice
on
this
call
or
earlier,
is
used
for
redistricting,
it's
used
for
elections
and
it's
really
used
for
the
census,
and
yet
all
of
those
three
things
are
somewhat
separate
processes,
maybe
long
after
I'm
retired.
That
will
be
all
a
little
more
straightened
out.
Mickey
did
you
want
to
say
something
extra
about
2030.
J
Yeah
I
wanted
to
extend
some
of
the
feedback
that
I
had
from
many
of
the
city
leaders
who
were
working
on
the
census,
who
were
I
mean
literally
on
street
corners
handing
out
flyers
reminders.
You
know
what
they
weren't
just
sitting
sort
of
at
desks.
They
were
actually
out
in
the
community,
and
so
it
was
very
impressive
to
hear
the
kind
of
response
that
they
were
having.
J
But
you
know
one
of
the
things
that
actually
independent
of
the
pandemic
but
which
the
pandemic
brought
into
really
stark
relief
was
just
around
how
they
how
the
census
operations
are
sort
of
ordered.
So,
for
example,
with
non-response
follow-up,
there
could
very
easily
be
at
the
same
address
or
the
same
area.
A
very
high
rate
of
you
only
get
responses
during
nerfu.
J
Why
do
they
then
wait
until
the
very
end?
And
in
this
case
it
was
you
know,
because
nerfu
was
at
the
very
end.
There
were
so
many
additional
challenges
in
in
terms
of
completing
that
in
an
effective
way.
What
we
know
is
that
many
historically
undercounted
groups
are
counted
during
nerfuu,
so
why
do
they
wait
until
the
very
end
when
actually
the
census
bureau
has
data
that
shows
this
address
has
only
been
counted
through
nerf
or
the
last
three
censuses
or
whatever
it
is
right.
J
I
mean
that's
just
like
one
example,
but
that
you
know
finding
more.
I
mean
the
innovation
with
this
census
was
having
it
be.
Digital.
There's
an
I
think,
there's
sort
of
operations,
planning
innovations
that
can
happen
in
the
next
census.
That
would
be
more
taking
into
account
where
our
historically
undercounted
communities
consistently
only
counted
during
norfolk.
What
kind
of
extra
hand-holding
to
exactly
the
point
that
joe
just
made
about
the
po
boxes?
I
mean
rural
communities,
small
towns,
all
of
those
really
struggled.
I'm.
J
I'm
putting
a
link
in
the
chat
that
is
a
map
that
we're
working
on
with
esri.
It's
really
just
it's
a
very,
very
high
level,
just
under
count
risk
indicator
map,
so
don't
take
it
as
like.
This
is
not
anything
that
you
should
be
making
any
scientific
judgments
around,
but
it's
just
like
gives
you
a
really
quick,
fast
snapshot.
Easy
to
see
red
triangles
is
where
there's
an
undercount
risk.
J
Green
triangles
is
where
the
response
rate
exceeded
the
2010
response
rate
and
what
you
see
when
you
look
at
this
map,
it's
basically
a
tale
of
states
that
did
or
did
not
invest
in
census
and
rural
versus
urban,
because
the
red
triangles
are
by
and
far
I
mean
even
in
california,
you
see
very
few
red
triangles
but
where
they
are
are
in
places
that
are
relatively
rural
and
california,
put
187
million
dollars
to
the
census.
J
A
Actually
think
that
the
post
office
question
and
your
question
mickey
are
two
sides
of
the
same
coin:
how
do
we
reach
out
to
people
where
do
people
want
to
be
reached,
and
that
could
be
an
entirely
different
answer
as
more
people
are,
are
on
their
phones
all
the
time
and
don't,
and
I
know
that
they
have
to
be
geographically
located.
But
how
do
we
talk
to
them
is
a
hard
question
to
know.
A
What's
going
to
be
the
right
thing
in
10
years,
but
john
has
said
something
really
cool,
which
is
if
we
could
change
something
about
the
census
for
10
years
from
now,
maybe
fully
funding.
It
would
be
good,
I'm
open
to
any
last
minute
questions.
I
have
a
few
closing
comments,
but
I'm
open
to
anyone
who
wants
to
share
anything
on
any
topic:
20,
30
2010,
maybe
not
so
much.
A
A
A
It
has
been
a
wealth
of
resources
brought
to
us
and
we
can
use
them
for
all
of
the
future.
We've
had
45
people,
many
of
whom
are
on
this
call,
who
volunteered
their
time
to
be
faculty
for
it,
and
they
were
legislative
staff.
They
were
legislators,
they
were
litigators,
there
were
legal
experts
and
there's
probably
some
more
l-type
things
that
I've
missed
and
there
were
500
people
who
chose
to
spend
their
time
with
us
from
45
states.
A
So
that's
a
pretty
amazing
thing
and
csl
doesn't
often
get
45
states
represented
at
much
of
anything
and
now
it's
up
to
the
states
to
do
their
work.
Ncsl
is
there
to
help
you
do
your
work,
but
you
are
the
ones
who
are
responsible
for
this,
and
people
have
called
this
a
blood
sport.
I
don't
like
that.
They've
said
it's
intensely
partisan.
A
I
guess
that's
true
and,
as
tim
story
says,
it's
extraordinarily
complex
and
that's,
I
guess
true,
whether
we
like
it
or
not,
but
I'm
going
to
add
that
it's
extraordinarily
important,
because
redistricting
is
the
mission
critical
first
step
for
democracy.
It
sets
the
field
for
representation
and
what
could
be
more
important
than
that.
So
you've
learned
a
lot.
You've
shared
a
lot,
and
I
hope
that
there's
some
satisfaction.
I
was
trying
to
think
about
the
right
word
a
fun
in
what
you're
about
to
do.