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From YouTube: Task Force on State and Local Taxation Meeting
Description
Task Force on State and Local Taxation Meeting
A
A
So
we
would
really
encourage
you
to
remain
on
the
rest
of
the
calls
that
we
can
share
insight
and
the
challenges
that
we're
all
facing
at
the
state
level
with
respect
to
revenue
items.
So
I
think
that
representative
maco
is
is
has
joined
us.
So,
representative,
marco,
if
you
wanted
to
make
say
a
few
words
here
before
we
get
started,
would
love
to
have
you
do
that.
B
Thanks
so
much
orlando,
I
just
want
to
thank
everybody
for
taking
the
time
out
and
to
try
and
continue
to
move
this
process
forward.
So
I
just
thank
your
linda
and
her
team
jackson.
I
see
the
rest
of
you
guys
out
there
thanks
for
continuing
to
to
do
this.
We
still
have
duties
and
responsibilities.
We
still
have
to
continue
to
move
things
forward.
So
it's
the
old
alligator
and
I
know
my
objective-
is
to
drain
the
swamp
when
it's
difficult
to
do
when
you're
up
to
your
butt
and
alligators.
B
A
You
appreciate
that
and
just
for
some
housekeeping
items
you
know
you
can
always
put
your
questions
in
the
chat
box
and
we'll
address
them.
There.
Jocelyn
will
we'll
keep
track
of
that
and
let
us
know-
and
I
think
we
decide-
that
we
were
going
to
actually
try
to
answer
some
of
these
questions
in
real
time
during
the
panel,
so
that
we
don't
leave
them
all
for
the
end
in
order
to
kind
of
keep
the
conversation
flowing
and
keep
the
the
interaction
engaging.
A
A
Okay,
great!
So
as
you
all
oops
back
back
one,
thank
you.
Okay,
all
right!
So,
as
you
all
know
where
we
have
officially
started
our
lame
duck
congress,
they
all
came
back.
I
guess
this
early
this
week
yesterday
or
and
senate
composition,
of
course,
won't
be
decided
officially
until
january
because
of
the
two
runoff
elections
that
are
being
handled
in
in
georgia
at
this
moment.
Actually
they
came
back
last
week.
Sorry
not
this
week.
The
last
week
I'm
getting
my
week's
confused
already.
A
So
yes,
so
we
still
have
some
indecision
regarding
the
senate
with
respect
to
those
the
majority
in
those
because
of
those
two
states,
the
runoffs
there.
The
house
democrats
have
maintained
their
control,
but
the
majority
has
eroded
and,
as
you
can
see,
the
congressional
leadership
is
expected
to
remain
the
same.
Of
course,
that
will
change
if
the
senate
does
in
fact
flip
over
to
the
democrats.
A
So
at
this
point
you
know,
democrats
are
projected
to
maintain
control
or
have
maintained
control
of
the
house
and
the
main
issues
basically
stay
the
same
right
now,
of
course,
there
is
this
huge
focus
on
covet
19
legislation,
whether
or
not
that
will
still
occur.
You
know
we're
very
focused
on
it
and
you
know
hopeful
that
something
will
happen,
but
of
course
you
know,
there's
still
a
huge
gap
between
what
the
senate
wants
and
what
the
house
has
proposed.
A
There's
still,
I
believe,
a
one
million
dollar,
true,
sorry
trillion
dollar
gap
between
the
two
big
difference
and
that
has
definitely
caused
you
know,
obstacles
and
dealing
with
that.
The
president
has
more
or
less
extricated
himself
from
that
process.
The
secretary
treasury
of
this
treasury
mnuchin
is
really
no
longer
involved
in
these
negotiations.
A
So
again
it
is
up
to
the
majority,
the
senate
majority
of
the
current
senate
majority
and
the
democrats
due
to
come
to
a
a
negotiation
negotiated,
result
there
and
then,
of
course,
we've
got
the
appropriations
outlook
here.
You
know
we
are
hoping
that
there
is
going
to
be
some
movement
with
respect
to
funding
our
government
operations.
Right
now,
we're
currently
functioning
under
a
continuing
resolution
that
is
set
to
expire
december
11th.
A
The
strategy
right
now
appears
to
be
past,
saying
what
we
call
minibus
spending
packages
to
to
go
ahead
and
pass
these
bills
and
packages.
The
house
passed
most
of
its
bills
this
summer
and
the
senate
literally
just
released
a
series
of
spending
bills
last
week,
and
so
we
are.
You
know
I
again
cautiously
optimistic
that
some
agreement
can
be
found
with
respect
to
funding
government
operations.
I
think
there's
definitely
more
optimism
with
respect
to
that
happening
than
than
coven
19
relief
stimulus
occurring.
A
So
that's
another
item
to
factor
in
as
well.
Okay,
next
and
neither
party
has
a
mandate.
So
again,
cooperation
is
going
to
be
key
vital
going
into
the
117th
congress
that
that
president-elect
biden
will
in
fact
inherit.
Okay
next
slide,
please
so
now
we'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
vitamin
transition
agenda
as
you've
seen
over
the
course
of
the
last
10
days,
or
so
president-elect
biden
has
publicized
and
issued
and
and
continues
to
form
who
his
transition
team
is
going
to
be.
A
A
He
has
been
bullish
on
prospects
of
being
able
to
clinch
bipartisan
deals
with
the
gop
controlled
congress
throughout
his
campaign,
but
that
remains
to
to
be
seen
so
his
major
part
of
policy
priorities
are
they're
following
there,
as
you
can
see.
Number
one,
of
course,
is
a
comprehensive
national
strategy
to
combat
the
kobit
19
pandemic.
A
A
Okay,
so
again
being
that
the
pandemic
is,
is
job
number
one
for
his
coming
into
to
his
his
power.
There,
we've
got
some
more
a
little
bit
more
detail
about
what
his
coven
19
proposals
are
set
to
look
at
from
what
we've
seen
his
plan
is
basically
a
700
billion
economic
recovery
plan
that
contains
a
nationwide
mass
mandate
boosts
in
the
national
stockpile,
additional
support
for
small
businesses,
testing
and
resources
for
schools,
25
billion
for
therapeutics
and
the
vaccine
distribution.
A
He
hopes
to
create
a
national
contact
racing
program
and
more
funds
for
addressing
state
and
local
budget
shortfalls
and
finally
has
expressed
an
interest
in
establishing
a
new
u.s
public
health
job
corps
next
slide
and
a
little
more
focused
on
what
we're
talking
about
today.
Of
course,
are
he's
he's
been
pretty,
I
would
say,
vocal
about
what
his
tax
proposals
are
going
to
be
going
to
the
administration.
A
So
he
has
been
pretty
you
know
fairly,
I
would
say,
vocal
and
out
there
with
his.
You
know
his
proposals
for
what
he
sees
going
into
with
respect
to
taxes
into
the
into
his
administration
next
slide,
and
that
is
all
I
have
right
now
for
our
federal
update.
And
why
don't
we
start
our
next
panel?
Then
I
like
to
turn
it
over
to
our
next
panel.
Here
we
go
greg
johnson,
fred
nicely
and
diane
yetter.
If
you'd
like
to
take
it
away.
C
Great
thanks
so
much
sir
linda
really
appreciate
the
task
force,
allowing
us
to
give
an
update
on
the
state's
remote
seller
and
marketplace
facilitator
laws
and
challenges.
I
think,
is
the
right
word.
It's
I
think,
been
very
challenging
for
state
tax
administrators
and
for
businesses
on
exactly
how
the
laws
are
working
in
this
area.
C
C
C
The
task
force
has
always
been
closely
aligned
with
the
streamlined
sales
tax
project
and
we're
really
pleased
that
the
streamlined
states
right
now
are
working
on
disclosed
practices
addressing
their
marketplace.
Facilitator
laws.
I
can
say
you
know:
we've
had
at
least
five
six
meetings
thus
far
with
this
a
work
group,
probably
more
than
that,
and
it
hasn't
been
an
easy
task
because
the
state's
laws
vary
so
much.
C
These
disclosed
practices,
I
think,
are
going
to
be
very,
very
helpful.
They're
going
to
assist
marketplace
facilitators,
marketplace
sellers
and
they're.
Also,
I'm
going
to
help
all
of
you
as
state
legislators.
You
know
kind
of
understand,
you
know
what
the
states
are
doing
with
the
marketplace,
facilitator
provisions
and
is
necessary.
It's
going
to,
I
think,
assist
you
in
being
able
to
make
improvements
with
those
laws,
we'd
like
to
make
sure
that
this
is
interactive.
Please
feel
free
to
ask
us
questions
as
we're
going
through
the
presentation.
C
C
Also
looking
at
marketplace
facilitators.
You
know
the
collecting
the
tax,
including
other
taxes
and
fees,
and
I
think
you
know
states
are
starting
to
realize
that
you
know
they
may
want
more
than
just
sales
tax
collected.
But
it's
important
if
you're
going
to
have
other
taxes
and
fees
that
you
take
on
certain
things
and
considerations
that
we'll
discuss
and
then
last
we
hope
we
have
time
we'd
like
to
talk
about
non-member
states,
there's
23,
full
member
states
in
this
streamlined
sales
and
use
tax
agreement.
C
We
want
nine
member
states
also
to
participate
as
much
as
they
can
in
the
streamlined
sales
tax
project.
So
we'll
talk
about
steps
that
can
be
done
there
to
make
it
easier
for
all
sellers
to
be
able
to
be
able
to
comply
with
the
state
sales
tax
laws.
So
with
that,
I'm
going
to
kick
it
off
to
craig
to
get
us
started
on
the
first
topic.
D
All
right
thanks
fred
and
thank
you,
jackson
or
linda
and
state
local
task
force
members
for
for
inviting
me
to
participate
today
and
really
all
the
support
that
you
have
shown
streamline
over
the
years.
I
think
the
work
that
your
organization
and
state
legislators
have
done
to
improve
the
state,
local
sales,
tax
laws
and
requirements
have
really
done
a
lot
to
to
reduce
the
the
burdens
that
have
imposed
on
remote
sellers
and
interstate
commerce.
D
So
when
we
talk
about
some
of
these
issues
that
we're
we're
looking
at
getting
into
the
the
thresholds
itself
streamlines
been
compiling
the
information
to
help
remote
sellers
understand
each
state's
remote
sales,
tax
collection
requirements
and
the
process
really
helps
remote
sellers
determine
where
their
differences
in
the
law
is
and
wait
for
a
decision.
Obviously
it
was
a
huge
win
for
state
local
governments
and-
and
shortly
after
that
decision,
the
you
know
and
before
any
uniform
recommendations
been
put
together,
states
started
adopting
thresholds
and
these
thresholds.
D
They
were
you
know
I'll,
say
similar
to
to
what
south
dakota
had
enacted.
You
know,
unfortunately,
the
the
thresholds
adopted
also
had
some
variations,
not
necessarily
in
the
dollar
amount
of
the
thresholds
and
we're
talking
about
variations,
although
there
were
some
of
those
too
but
more
on
how
the
threshold
was
computed
and
some
of
the
states
adopted
thresholds
that
were
based
on
gross
receipts.
D
So
when
you're
determining,
if
you
have
to
collect
the
tax,
you
look
at
the
gross
receipts,
other
states
use
the
term
retail
sales
and
then
still
others
use
the
term
taxable
sales.
And
if
you
imagine,
if
you're
a
remote
seller
making
sales
into
all
the
states,
you
know
you'll
need
to
know
what
the
basis
used
for
calculating
the
threshold
is
in
each
of
the
states
to
determine.
D
D
D
You
know
these
are
the
real
difficulties
that
that
remote
sellers
are
encountering
encountering
and
really
need
to
to
better
understand
and-
and
I
know
diane
is
in-
has
encountered
some
of
those
with
her
clients
and
and
fred
and
they've,
been
obviously
an
immense
help
as
we
work
through
these
through
these
disclosed
practices.
But
that's
just
one
of
the
issues
that
that
states
have
have
adopted
and
and
and
are
moving
forward
on
as
far
as
determining
what
is
their
threshold
and
what
do
sellers
need
to
do
to
meet
that
threshold?
C
Well
and
craig
before
we
go
there,
though
just
you
know,
looking
at
the
the
thresholds,
as
you
would
indicated,
you
know,
most
of
the
states
are
using
a
hundred
thousand
dollar
threshold,
but
many
of
them
are
using
gross
receipts
or
gross
sales.
So
that
means
that
it's
all
sales,
whether
or
not
they're
going
to
be
taxable
and
the
difference
between
gross
receipts
and
retail
sales
is
retail.
Sales
would
exclude,
sell
for
resale,
and
I
mean
I
think
that's
something
really
to
look
at
is
that?
C
Do
you
want
manufacturers
and
wholesalers
are
only
making
sales
for
resale
to
register
when
they're
not
going
to
be
remitting
any
tax?
And
so
that's
you
know
been
one
of
the
things
that
it'll
be
interesting
to
see.
You
know
how
the
states
respond
in
the
disclosed
practices,
but
a
lot
of
them
really
seem
to
focus
on
gross
receipts,
rather
than
looking
at
you
know,
is
the
potential
for
any
tax
because
sales
for
resale-
that's
not
going
to
be
dipped
up
in
this.
In
the
sales
tax
base.
E
And
to
you
know,
kind
of
go
along
with
that.
The
difference
between
gross
and
taxable
for
certain
businesses
in
certain
industries
is
significant.
You
know,
we've
we've
dealt
with
a
lot
of
companies
that
sell
things
that
are
exempt
from
tax,
so,
whether
it's
digital
goods
or
services
that
are
not
taxable
in
a
state.
E
C
And
I
think
it's
good
that
you
know
craig.
You
had
talked
about
the
complexity
with
a
transactional
threshold.
That's
not
part
of
the
model.
The
the
ncsl
model
only
has
the
monetary
threshold,
and
you
know
we
are
seeing
a
lot
of
issues
with
the
transactionals.
You
know,
as
far
as
how
do
you
calculate
what
is
a
transaction
and
also
you
know,
while
most
of
the
states
may
use
200
transactions,
that
can
oftentimes
be
a
very
de
minimis
amount.
You
know
much
lower
than
100
000.
D
So,
okay,
can
we
next
slide
please
so
another
thing
with
respect
to
the
the
threshold
that
people
need
to
be
thinking
about
is,
is
how
do
sales
on
a
marketplace
affect
their
their
threshold?
Computations,
you
know,
is:
is
the
remote
seller
expected
to
include
in
their
calculation
the
sales
that
they
make
on
the
marketplace?
D
You
know:
does
it
make
a
difference
if
the
marketplace
is
or
is
not
registered
in
a
particular
state
and
and
if
a
state
requires
a
remote
seller
to
include
these
items
in
their
threshold
compensation
and
and
fred?
I
think
you
and
diane
have
alluded
to
it,
they're
going
to
need
to
recognize
that
they
may
be
receiving
and
will
likely
need
to
process
returns
from
remote
sellers
that
have
very
little
if
any
tax
due-
and
I
think
that's
a
question
that
that
the
states
have
to
have
to
really
be
thinking
about
is,
is.
D
Is
that
really
what
you
want?
Do
you
want
a
seller,
that's
making
sales
almost
exclusively
on
a
marketplace
and
because
of
that
they
exceed
the
200
transactions.
They
exceed
100
000
in
sales.
The
fact
that
they
make
a
few
sales
on
their
own
that
they
would
be
reporting.
Do
you
really
want
them
to
be
registered,
then
collecting
and
filing
and
remitting
the
returns?
Now
I
can
say
from
a
streamlined
perspective,
obviously
with
our
certified
service
provider
program
and
if
sellers
are
using
that
program
and
they're
using
a
csp,
it's
easy
for
them
to.
D
You
know
to
have
the
csp
take
care
of
it.
Have
them
file
the
electronic
return
and
things
like
that,
but
but
that's
that's
something
that
I
think
states
need
to
be
need
to
be
thinking
about
when
they're
figuring
out
what
to
include
or
what
to
do
with
the
marketplace
sales
that
take
place
then,
regardless
of
what
you
do
with
that,
once
you
meet
that
threshold,
the
next.
D
D
You
know
some
states
give
sellers
time
to
get
their
systems
properly
programmed
and
it
takes
some
time
to
get
them
their
system
set
up.
Should
they
be
anticipating
that,
should
they
should
they
be
required
to
say
okay,
I
think
that
in
60
days
from
now
I'm
going
to
exceed
the
threshold.
Therefore,
I'm
going
to
go
ahead
and
start
the
programming
process
of
getting
this
set
up.
You
know
and
many
states
laws.
Quite
frankly,
they
don't
indicate
when
sellers
need
to
start
collecting,
they're
they're
silent.
You
know
they
just
say.
D
If
you
need
to
exceed
the
threshold
you
need
to
collect.
So
I
think
the
the
presumption
is
that
sellers
need
to
start
collecting
on
the
next
transaction,
and
the
question
really
is:
should
there
be
some
minimum
amount
of
time
that,
after
a
seller
reaches
those
thresholds
before
they
actually
have
to
start
collecting
and
remitting
your
state's
tax?
And
is
this
something
that
we
should
look
at
from
a
uniformity
perspective
and
at
least
that
at
a
minimum
recommendation
to
give
sellers
some
time
to
to
get
their
system
set
up
fred
diane?
E
They
had
escalation
of
sales
at
such
a
rapid
pace
that,
even
if
we're
doing
reviews
every
month
to
see
where
we
are
I've
got
sellers
that
we
work
with,
that
didn't
think
they
would
be
hitting
you
know,
maybe
even
at
all,
in
2020
and
all
of
a
sudden
in
april
they
exceeded
the
thresholds
and
so
to
have
to
get
registered.
That
quickly
is
not
just
something
that
the
seller
has
to
do,
but
the
states
also
have
to
be
much
more
responsive
and
timely
in
processing
registrations.
E
D
And
I
would
add
on
that
too
diane
with
respect
to
the
registrations.
That's
one
thing
all
of
our
streamlined
member
states.
If
you
fill
out
the
streamline
registration
as
soon
as
you
hit
the
submit
button,
you
have
an
email
and
you've
got
your
sst
id.
You
are
and
all
the
states
have
agreed
that
at
that
point
in
time
you
are
registered
and
you
can
go
ahead
and
collect
so
that
at
least
that
helps
in
in
the
streamline
states.
The
non-streamlined
states
that
that
could
still
be.
I
agree,
that's
that's
a
problem
potentially.
C
Yeah
and
craig,
I
think
marketplace:
sellers
really
need
clarity
on
do
they.
We
have
to
report
the
sales
that
they
have
through
a
marketplace
facilitator
or
not.
You
know
some
states
have
penalty
provisions
if
you
don't
put
all
the
required
sales
on
a
return.
You'd
have
to
back
off
these
sales,
so
marketplace
sellers
need
to
know.
C
You
know
how
to
you
exclude
from
the
tax
calculation
the
sales
where
the
tax
was
actually
collected
by
a
marketplace
facilitator-
and
you
know
in
the
timing
issue,
just
echoing
what
diane
had
said
is
that
it's,
I
think,
it's
completely
impractical
to
require
a
seller
immediately
after
they
exceed
a
threshold.
They
have
to
start
collecting
the
taxes.
It
should
definitely
begin
at
the
beginning
of
a
calendar
month
and
it
should
be
a
reasonable
period
of
time,
which
I
think
we'll
talk
about
on
another.
E
We
have
50
000
in
property
here
on
the
slide,
but
it's
also
50
000
in
payroll
that
a
remote
seller
can
have
in
a
streamlined
state
and
still
qualify
as
being
a
csp
compensated
seller.
The
terminology
used
to
be
a
volunteer
seller
and
this
enables
them
to
still
qualify
for
the
benefits
of
having
the
services
provided
by
a
csp
paid
for
by
the
state,
and
so
one
of
the
things
that
we
are
trying
to
look
at
is
will
the
streamlined
states
also
still
consider
them
to
be
a
remote
seller?
E
There
are,
you
know,
differences
in
some
cases
with
the
tax
rate.
That
applies
the
sourcing
rules
and,
in
some
cases
not
not
as
much
in
streamline
states
but
some
of
the
other
states,
some
flat
rate
types
of
rules
that
are
out
there.
So
texas,
tennis,
texas,
alabama,
have
the
flat
rates,
louisiana
and
alaska
have
their
remote
seller
authorities
and
in
those
states,
if
you
have
physical
presence
in
the
state,
you
now
do
not
qualify
for
any
of
those
simplification
benefits
and
then,
as
well
as
the
inventory
in
the
warehouses.
E
What
about
employees?
So
what?
If
I've
got
a
employee,
especially
now
with
the
pandemic?
I've
got
an
office
employee
that
is
working
from
home.
Does
that
now
eliminate
my
ability
to
qualify
for
a
remote
seller
in
that
state?
And
so
what
we
are
asking
is
the
distinction
between
a
retail
employee.
So
someone
who
is
involved
in
making
retail
sales
versus
a
non-retail
employee,
a
back
office
type
of
employee,
would
that
make
a
distinction
in
terms
of
whether
there
is
a
remote
seller
and
then
the
tax
type
also
comes
into
play.
E
So
are
we
collecting
a
sales
tax
which
is
typically
applied
when
you
have
physical
presence
within
a
state,
or
is
it
a
use
tax
that
applies?
We
do
have
some
states,
like
the
illinois,
fair,
the
marketplace,
leveling
the
playing
field
bill
that
comes
into
play
january,
one
that
is
switching
it
from
a
use
tax,
which
makes
it
much
easier
for
remote
sellers
that
now
they're
going
to
have
to
collect
sales
tax
at
the
higher
rate
plus
having
to
know
all
of
the
local
jurisdictions,
and
you
know
collecting
all
of
that.
E
Their
return
is
going
to
become
much
more
complicated,
their
sourcing
rules,
their
ability
and
need
to
have
information
about
all
of
the
sales
tax
rates
is
going
to
exponentially
increase,
come
january,
1.,
and
so
looking
at
all
of
these
sorts
of
things
coming
into
play.
We're
we're
thinking
that
you
know
some
model
legislation
that
would
have
some
de
minimis
allowance
for
physical
presence
in
a
state
that
would
still
allow
them
to
be
considered
a
remote
seller.
E
If
we
go
to
the
next
slide-
and
so
you
know
what
are
some
of
the
things
that
we
would
suggest
to
the
legislators
to
look
at
within
their
states,
so
the
first
is,
you
know
kind
of
looking
at
these
thresholds
that
we've
talked
about
so
having
similar
dollar
amounts.
Many
of
the
states
are
at
the
hundred
thousand.
We
do
appreciate
the
larger
states
like
texas,
new
york
and
california,
that
have
the
500
000
without
a
threshold.
E
That
is
not
a
tax
professional
trying
to
understand.
You
know
how
to
measure
those
thresholds
is
something
that
is
a
big
burden
on
them
and
then
the
transactional
threshold.
I
have
a
lot
of
clients
that
they
are
99
marketplace
selling,
but
they've
got
you
know
enough
transactions
that
they
are
either
in
total
included
it
as
a
remote
seller
that
needs
to
register
and
some
really
low
dollars.
I
mean
I've
got
some
people
that
we're
looking.
As
you
know,
craig
use
the
example
of
four
thousand
dollars.
E
E
Some
of
the
states
are
starting
to
come
out
and
say:
if
you're
100
marketplace,
you
don't
have
to
register
and
file,
but
if
you
make
just
one
direct
sale
now
all
of
a
sudden,
if
you
otherwise
exceed
the
threshold,
you
need
to
file
and
then
the
the
time
to
start
collecting
that
we've
already
talked
about.
So
let's
go
ahead
and
move
to
the
next
slide
before.
C
We
move
off
that,
though
diane
just
on
focusing
on
the
uniform
treatment
of
marketplace
sales.
I
think
you
know
this
really
encompasses
a
broad
area,
and
sometimes
it's
not
really
clear
for
exemption
certificate
purposes.
Who
has
to
maintain
the
exemption
certificate?
Is
it
the
marketplace
facilitator?
Is
it
the
marketplace
seller?
Is
it
both?
I
mean
having
clear
guidelines
on
that
coupons,
other
types
of
discounts,
the
marketplace
facilitator
entitled.
C
You
know
to
the
same
discounts
and
the
way
a
seller
is
entitled
to
it
and,
at
least
with
the
streamline
states
working
on
these
disclosed
practices,
we've
really
gotten
them
to
start
thinking
about
it.
I
think
that's
really
helpful,
but
the
model
you
know
right
now
with
the
ncsl
doesn't
go
into
a
lot
of
depth
with
that
and
that's
something
that
you
know
may
need
to
be
revisited
too.
D
Yeah,
so
if
you
go
to
next,
thank
you.
You
know
when,
when
marketplace
laws
and
that
started
going
into
effect-
and
we
recognized
all
the
different
various
nuances
that
were
going
into
the
state's
laws,
we
put
together
a
chart
that
identified
for
all
states
and
it's
all
states,
not
just
streamlined
states,
but
but
all
of
the
member
states
that
are
all
the
states
that
are
willing
to
provide
the
information.
Just
general
information
related
to
the
remote
seller
collection
responsibilities.
You
know
effective
dates,
thresholds
links
to
information
that
that
each
state
put
out.
D
We
compiled
all
that
and
put
it
all
together.
You
know,
although
it's
pretty
limited
information,
certainly
helped
remote
sellers
and
having
all
that
information
in
one
spot
was
helpful
to
them
and
then
providing
links
to
all
the
different
states
information
was
we
found
was
helpful.
However,
you
know,
as
time
has
gone
on,
and
people
started
really
to
dig
into
the
requirements
and
starting
looking
looking
at
that,
it's
raised
more
questions
than
than
answers.
I
think
in
in
many
cases,
and
it's
resulted
in
a
lot
of
differences
in
interpretations
that
that
are
happening.
D
You
know
what
do
they
have
related
to
their
collection
or
events
requirements,
or
what
questions
do
they
have
that
they
need
answers
to
and
identifying
how
the
different
states
laws
differ,
and
you
know,
diane
and
fred
have
both
been
very,
very
helpful
in
that
area,
as
well
as
a
number
of
others
from
the
business
community.
And
you
know
you
are
the
folks
that
are
dealing
with
this
on
a
multi-state
basis.
Most
states
or
state
folks
are
dealing
with
it
only
on
their
state's
basis.
They
look
at
it
from
their
state's
perspective.
D
D
If
you
can
jump
to
the
next
slide,
we
just
have
a
a
snippet
of
some
of
the
guidelines
that
we
put
out
so
far,
and
this
is
what
we
have
on
our
on
our
website
right
now,
it's
available
to
all
sellers
available
to
anybody
that
wants
to
go
out
there
and-
and
you
can
see
we
have
the
information
for
for
all
states,
not
just
streamlined
states.
The
disclosed
practices
that
we're
working
on
ultimately
ultimately
end
up
as
part
of
our
taxability
matrix.
D
I
mean
that's
what
our,
what
our
goal
is,
but
we'll
be
able
to
put
that
information
out
in
a
format
so
that
all
states
can
can
participate
with
it,
and
sellers
can
see
it
for
all
states
and
diane.
I
know
when
we
were
talking
about
this
slide.
You
thought
that
you
thought
this
was
a
good
slide
for
people
to
see
all
the
different,
the
differences
that
are
out
there.
E
E
D
C
C
If
that
responsibility
is
going
to
be
put
on
the
facilitator,
it
really
needs
to
be
clearly
done
via
legislation,
and
you
know
time
needs
to
be
provided,
because
not
all
the
marketplace
facilitators
have
systems
to
be
able
to
collect
all
different
types
of
miscellaneous
fees.
That
may
not
even
be
reportable
to
the
revenue
agency.
It
may
go
to
another
entity
altogether
and
you
can
have
a
different
calculate.
C
That
continues
to
be
an
issue
too,
and
one
of
the
questions
that's
in
the
disclosed
practices
is
whether
or
not
a
state
revenue
agency
has
issued
a
policy
on
the
reliance
a
marketplace
facilitator
can
use
for
relying
on
what
they
have
when
they're
selling
a
product
to
determine
taxability.
So
that
should
be
helpful
to
encourage
the
revenue
agencies
to
put
out
some
policies
there.
The
opt-out
provisions
that
would
allow
a
marketplace
seller
to
continue
to
collect
the
tax,
there's,
not
a
lot
of
uniformity
there.
C
A
lot
of
the
states
have
little
nuances
there.
So
having
more
uniformity
for
the
marketplace,
facilitators
and
the
marketplace
sellers
to
come
into
agreement
to
have
the
marketplace
seller
still
collected
tax
would
be
helpful.
You
know
it
could
be
for
any
type
of
seller
or
maybe
there's
certain
types
of
industries
such
as
the
telecommunications
companies
or
the
ride
share
programs,
where
it's
appropriate
to
make
sure
that
there
is
an
opt-out
and
some
states
have
focused
on
the
size
of
business.
C
E
Yeah,
the
only
other
thing
that
I
I
think
is
important
to
keep
in
mind
is
when
we
start
talking
about
these
other
taxes
and
fees.
They
are
not
always
administered
at
the
state
level,
and
so
now
you
have
the
complexity
that
you
know
what,
if
there's
something
that
is
subject
to
the
sales
tax
on
an
invoice
but
also
subject
to
an
alternative
tax.
E
You
know
I'm
seeing
that
I've
got
a
client
in
the
entertainment,
business
and
they're
selling
tickets
to
things
which
are
often
a
local
amusement
tax,
but
they
also
can
add
into
the
same
cart.
You
know
a
t-shirt
or
a
you
know,
cd
or
something
like
that,
and
so
now
you've
got
a
real
myriad
of.
What
are
we
going
to
do,
and
you
know
there's
a
lot
of
confusion
to
the
to
the
purchaser
to
the
customer
as
to
what
is
actually
happening
with
their
invoice.
E
So
you
know
where
this
marketplace:
collection
is
sitting
within
the
sales
and
use
tax
statutes,
but
other
things
like
a
telecom
tax
or
an
amusement
tax
or
a
meals
tax
may
be
in
a
completely
separate
section
in
the
statute,
and
so
is
there
coordination
between
those?
It's
not
always
clear,
and
then
in
the
in
these
alternative
taxes,
we
really
need
more
time
to
set
those
systems
up
and
then
some
sort
of
opt-out
requirement-
and
you
know-
is
there
a
process
that
the
state
needs
to
follow.
E
So
I
don't
know
if
we've
had
any
questions
come
in
that
we
can.
We
can
talk
briefly
if
we've
got
another
minute
or
two
or
linda
that
we
can
just
give
craig
a
second
to
explain
what
we'd
love
to
see
from
the
various
different
states.
And
then
I
haven't
seen
any
questions
in
the
chat.
I
don't
know
if
anything
has
come
in
any
other
way,.
E
D
Yeah,
if
we
can
jump-
and
you
can
go
to
the
next
slide
right
away-
and
this
deals
with
non-member
state
participation
and-
and
we
recognize
that
it's
it's-
maybe
pop
not
possible
for
states
to
go
all
the
way
down
the
path
to
red
full
membership
in
streamline.
But
what
we
wanted
to
do
is
we
wanted
to
give
states
an
opportunity
to
participate
with
us
on
some
of
the
things
that
we've
developed.
D
You
know
we
want
to
make
available
and
and
make
it
easier
for
these
states
to
come
with
come
in
along
with
us,
so
that,
hopefully,
the
remote
sellers
that
are
will
be
collecting
your
tax
will
be
able
to
do
it
in
a
way
that
that
really
reduces
their
burdens.
We
also
want
them
to
to
take
advantage
of
the
the
experience
and
the
knowledge
that
streamline
has
gained
over
the
last
15
to
20
years
in
this
area,
jump
to
the
next
slide.
D
I
mean
obviously
we'd
like
states
to
to
join
as
as
full
members,
but
if
they
can't
do
it,
we
want
to
make
sure
that
they're
aware
that
there's
an
opportunity
for
them
to
participate
with
us
as
a
as
a
non-member
as
a
non-member
state
if
they
do
just
certain
limited
or
meet
certain
limited
requirements.
And
again
these
are
things
that
really
will
help
the
remote
sellers
in
the
long
run,
and
you
know
one
of
the
things
that
I
I
can't
stress
enough.
D
Since
wayfair
has
happened
since
the
wayfarer
decision
came
out,
we
are
seeing
and
if
you
want
to
jump
to
the
next
slide,
just
with
some
of
our
couple
of
our
quick
successes,
we
now
have
over
12
000
we're
pushing
13
000
right
now
active
sellers
that
are
registered
through
streamline.
We
are
seeing
two
to
400
new
sellers,
a
net
increase
at
two
to
four
hundred
sellers
every
month.
D
So
just
again
making
sure
that
people
understand
the
way
streamline
has
grown,
making
sure
that,
as
if
you're
a
state,
that's
not
a
member
make
sure
you
understand
that
there
is
an
opportunity
for
you
to
participate
with
us,
and
we
would
we
would
love
to
have
you
come
along
and
again
make
it
easier
for
remote
sellers
and
make
it
easier
for
your
constituents
if
they're
having
to
collect
in
other
states
as
well.
So
with
that,
I
know
fred
diane.
Any
last
comments.
E
The
only
comment
I
would
I
would
suggest
is
even
without
you
know,
entering
into
the
more
formal
agreements
with
streamlined
in
in
their
limited
role,
this
disclosed
practice
document
that
we're
putting
together.
We
would
love
every
state
to
to
participate
and
encourage
your
department
of
revenue
to
do
that,
it
would
be
a
consistent
format.
It
would
be
the
questions
that
the
taxpayers
all
feel
that
we
need
to
have
answered.
E
So
we
would
encourage
the
legislators
to
kind
of
strongly
strongly
encourage
their
revenue
departments
to
participate
in
that
and
complete
that
and,
as
craig
said,
streamlined
will
populate
and
post
the
answers
on
the
streamlined
website,
and
then
obviously
the
state
could
use
it
as
a
great
resource
for
their
remote
sellers,
marketplace,
sellers
and
marketplace
facilitators.
Fred,
any
closing
comments,
yeah.
C
I
just
hope:
2021
is
the
year
that
we
can
get
some
non-member
state
participation
and,
what's
really
important,
is
it
probably
does
require
legislation
for
non-member
state
to
participate
to
address.
You
know
on
the
csp
compensation
and
and
some
other
issues,
but
the
business
community-
and
I
know
craig
was
streamlined-
would
be
more
than
willing
to
work
with
you
to
work
on
the
legislation.
To
make
that
happen.
That's
that's
all.
I
have
to
appreciate
it.
A
F
Great,
thank
you.
Thank
you
linda.
Thank
you,
jackson.
We
very
much
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
to
speak
on
these
issues,
and
you
know
this.
The
the
pandemic
has
really
raised
the
the
visibility
of
these
issues
and
it's
really
two
issues,
but
there's
a
significant,
significant
overlap
and
it's
a
fundamental
question
of
if
you're,
a
traveling
employee,
if
you're
working
away
from
your
office,
when
do
you
owe
personal
income
tax
to
to
the
state,
and
where
do
you
owe
it
and
then?
F
The
the
second
one
is
the
question
of
remote
teleworkers.
That
is,
if
you
are
now
working
outside
of
your
office
location,
where
you
weren't,
where
you
weren't
before
as
a
result
of
the
pandemic,
then
you're
a
teleworker
and
those
periods
are
typically
longer,
but
I
can
recall
when
in
march
or
so
when
the
pandemic
first
hit,
there
was
a
sense
that
well,
maybe
folks
can
come
back
into
the
office
in
a
month
or
two
right,
so
that
looked
like
temporary.
F
G
G
F
Yeah,
I
I
agree:
there's
a
slight
overlap
only
if
you're
a
teleworker
for
less
than
a
than
a
small,
a
small
point.
So,
let's
start
with
the
first
one,
the
temporary
traveling
non-resident
employee,
that
is,
and
in
nearly
half
the
states
right
now,
if
you're
a
non-resident
employee,
that
is,
you
leave
your
office
to
do
work
in
another
state.
F
You
incur
a
liability
that
is,
you
owe
personal
income
tax
and
you
have
to
file
a
personal
income
tax
return
to
that
state
as
of
the
first
day
in
the
state
and
typically,
if
that
liability
attaches
the
employers
incur
a
related
withholding
obligation.
There
are
some
states
like
new
york
when
those
two
are
disconnected,
but
for
the
most
part
they
are,
they
are
connected,
and
this
is
not
a
requirement
that
applies
just
to
corporate
entities.
It
applies
to
all
employers,
public
and
private,
non-profits
unions,
state
and
local
governments.
F
F
I
do
not
comply
with
those
states
laws
because
you
know
it
would
typically
be
a
small
dollar
return
that
I
would
file
in
that
state
and
then
have
to
take
a
credit
against
my
my
I'm
in
virginia
my
virginia
return,
and
if
everybody
fully
complied
with
the
laws
on
the
books
today,
it
would
very
quickly
overwhelm
every
state
department
of
revenue's
capacity
to
process
those
returns.
It's
a
huge.
F
Well,
that
makes
compliance
infinitely
more
difficult,
because
in
most
cases
or
in
numerous
cases,
an
employee
doesn't
know
what
their
full
compliance
compensation
is
going
to
be
until
the
end
of
the
year
they
may
get
paid
with
a
bonus.
It
could
be
a
substantial
part
of
their
salary,
they
could
be
working
on
commission,
their
commission
could
come
in
the
next
year
or
a
commission
from
a
prior
year
from
a
different
state
could
come
in
so
very
very
impossible,
very
difficult,
nearly
impossible
to
determine
how
much
you've
actually
earned
in
a
in
a
state.
F
So
what
we've
done
is
over
the
past
decade,
I'm
going
to
move
through
these
very
quickly.
If
you
go
to
the
next
slide,
we
have
proposed
what
we
call
the
mobile
workforce
bill
before
congress,
and
it's
we've
been
working
on
it
for
over
a
decade.
The
language
hasn't
changed
significantly
as
one
one
added
exclusion
in
in
this
10-year
period,
and
the
remarkable
thing
about
this
bill
is
its
bipartisan
support.
F
If
you
look,
we
passed
that
we
got
the
bill
through
the
house,
three
separate
congresses
and
the
112th,
the
113th
and
the
the
the
114th
and
the
115th,
and
this
was
typically
passed
in
the
house
bike
on
the
consent
calendar
by
voice
vote.
That
means
nobody
objects
to
this.
It
is
a
it's
a
good
government
bill.
It
has
a
a
reasonable
approach,
a
good
balance.
In
our
sense-
and
even
this
last
congress
we
got
62
senate
sponsors.
F
Now
those
of
you
that
that
are
well
versed
in
cloture.
You
realize
that
60
votes
in
vote
cloture,
and
that
should
be
enough
to
get
it
through.
Well
in
the
senate,
one
state
can
object
and
we've
had
objections
from
new
york,
because
new
york
feels
like
it
would
new
york
aggressively
audits
this
issue
and
feels
like
it
would
impact
their
their
revenues.
F
The
reason
we've
been
going
to
congress
is
that
you
know
I
realize
the
states
have
a
knee-jerk
reaction
opposed
to
federal
preemption,
but
if
there's
one
time
when
federal
preemption
is
entirely
appropriate,
it's
when
tax
actions
cross
state
borders,
and
here,
if
you're,
a
state
and
you're
trying
to
protect
your
workers,
your
residents
from
being
taxed
by
other
states.
You
cannot
do
that
unless
the
other
state
has
an
exactly
similar
law
and
a
reciprocity
provision,
it's
easier
to
get
it
done
through
federal
legislation.
F
Unfortunately,
it
hasn't
been
so
we're
focusing
on
getting
uniform
laws
at
the
state
level.
So
let's
go
to
the
next
next
slide.
I
wanna
I
wanna
point
out
who
is
supporting
this
on
the
you
know.
On
the
proponents
side.
Aicpa
is
a
huge
supporter
and
the
icpa
is
about
as
non-partisan
a
group
as
you
can
get.
Their
sole
concern
is
with
compliance
and
ease
of
compliance
and
making
sure
that
they
can
file
returns.
F
Aicpas
and
the
state
cpa
associations
are
put
in
a
particularly
difficult
situation
because
they
have
to
ask
their
clients.
Where
did
you
travel
this
year?
Did
you
travel
anywhere
other
than
the
state
where
your
office
is
and
if
they're
told
they
say?
Well,
we
have
to
file
those
returns,
even
though
you
were
only
there
for
a
day.
The
law
says
that
if
you're
there
for
a
day,
you
have
to
file
a
return,
even
though
the
state
doesn't
want
it,
the
employee
doesn't
want
it.
That's
the
law.
F
Aicda
cpa
preparer
is
bound
to
to
to
to
comply
american
payroll
association,
same
issues
very,
very
tough
for
compliance
here.
There's
also
some
300
plus
entities
that
are
in
our
coalition.
That
would
work
on
this.
So
essentially,
what
it
would
the
legislation
would
say
is
state
cannot
impose
personal
income
tax
on
wages,
employee
wages
unless
it's
in
the
employee
state
of
residence
or
or
a
state
where
the
employee
has
present
performing
duties
for
more
than
30
days.
F
F
F
All
the
all
this
this
bill
says
is
that
the
that
there
will
be
no
penalties
applied
doesn't
mean
that
the
withholding
doesn't
apply,
but
it
gives
a
sort
of
a
framework
for
how
employers
can
determine
when
an
employee
is,
is
traveling
to
another
state
and
we
allow
the
the
employer
to
rely
on
the
employee's
annual
determination
of
time.
That
is
if
the
employee
knows
that
they
have
a
job
where
they're
likely
be
in
a
state
for
more
than
30
days,
then
they'll
tell
the
employee
employer.
F
I
plan
to
work
here
here
and
here.
You're
gonna
have
to
withhold.
When
I
let
you
know,
we
liken
it
to
getting
an
employee
to
fill
out
a
w-4
every
january.
That
says:
how
much
do
you
want
for
withholding?
You
could
do
it
during
that
same
process.
You
can
file
the
w-4
and
say
also
my
job,
I'm
going
to
be
setting
up
a
hotel
in
this
state
for
three
days
you
need
to
when
you
need
to
reply.
You
need
to
withhold
when
I
do
that.
F
The
difficulty
of
going
below
30
days
is
that
you
increase
the
likelihood
of
employees
and
employers
backing
into
a
withholding
obligation
and
a
liability
near
the
end
of
the
year
unknowingly,
and
then
it's
very
difficult
to
do
backup
withholding
near
the
end
of
the
year
so
and
again
the
if
the
employer
has
the
time
and
attendance
system
in
place.
They
have
to
use
data
from
that
that
system,
but
if
they
don't
and
and
they
don't
the
employee
doesn't
tell
them,
it
doesn't
mean
that
the
withholding
is
still
not
due.
It's
still
liable.
F
It's
just
me.
It
just
means
that
the
employer
will
not
be
held
liable
for
penalties
for
failure
to
withhold.
Let's
go
to
the
next
one,
I'm
going
to
move
through
some
of
these
different
definitions,
the
the
probably
the
biggest
issue
that
we
we
confronted
is
who
to
exclude,
and
we've
excluded
professional
athletes,
entertainments
certain
public
figures
that
are
paid
in
their
professional
capacity,
and
these
are
folks
who
come
into
a
state
for
a
specific
event,
they're
paid
for
a
football
game
or
they're
paid
for
a
concert.
Those
are
excluded.
F
Those,
so
many
states
have
funding
mechanisms
have
bonds
backed
by
you,
know,
teams
visiting
team
salaries
that
it's
best
to
exclude
those,
and
so
anybody
paid
on
a
per
event
basis
would
not
fit
in
those
in
this
in
this
bill,
the
other
exclusion
is
a
qualified
production
employee.
If
you're
working
for
a
film
group
and
your
state
has
a
film
tax
credit
program
in
many
cases,
those
track
tax
credit
programs
are
paid
by
the
withholding
on
the
employees
that
come
in.
F
So
if
you're
a
qualified
production
employee
as
it's
defined
in
the
bill,
then
those
are
also
excluded,
and
I
suspect
that
that
could
be
that
that
provision
could
be
added
or
excluded
on
a
state-by-state
basis,
depending
on
whether
your
state
offered
a
film
tax
credit
or
not.
Let's
move
on
and
again
time
and
attendance
system.
A
lot
of
employees
do
apply
these
law
firms,
accounting
firms
that
that
have
track
timesheets
that
track
an
employee's
location
and
work.
Those
would
would
be
in
full
compliance,
but
there
are
a
lot
of
companies.
F
The
vast
majority
that
do
not
make
their
employees
to
fill
out
timesheets
or
to
file
a
you
know
have
a
time
and
attendance
systems.
Those
are
the
companies
that
would
would
be
able
to
rely
from
a
penalty
standpoint
on
where
their
employees
specified
they
need
to
be
withheld
from
and
again
this
is
not
the
company's
money.
This
is
money
that
is
being
paid
to
employees
all
right.
Let's
go
to
the
next
one
and
helen.
I
know
that
that
you-
and
I
have
have
had
numerous
conversations
about
these.
F
G
G
I
think
doug
had
on
two
issues
that
have
kept
us
apart,
so
I
can
focus
on
some
of
the
differences
between
the
federal
legislation
and
the
model
that
the
multi-state
taxation
commission
came
up
with.
But
let
me
just
say:
first
of
all,
we
recognize
that
especially
the
issue
of
traveling
employees
is
an
issue.
G
G
So
so
it
hasn't
been
something
that
businesses
have
necessarily
fallen
afoul
of,
but
we
recognize
that
it
doesn't
make
a
whole
lot
of
sense
that
if
you're
just
traveling
for
a
few
days
or
even
a
couple
weeks
that
you
would
then
have
to-
and
the
business
has
no
other
presence
here-
that
you
would
then
have
to
file
and
the
employee
would
have
to
pay
tax
in
that
state.
That
seems
a
little
silly
now,
of
course,
not
every
state
has
a
personal
income
tax.
G
Doug
mentioned
the
the
the
dollar
amount.
This
has
been
a
big
sticking
point
and
when
we've
done
our
presentations
in
the
past,
I'm
glad
that
doug
mentioned
the
fact
that
it's
the
enforceability
of
this
that's
really
the
problem,
because
I
think
there
are
ways
to
get
around
that.
I
think
there
are
ways
to
address
that,
and
so
for
states
who
say
you
know
what.
If
you
can
exclude
certain
employees,
you
can
exclude
certain
kinds
of
workers,
then
why
not
exclude
some
high
paid
workers?
G
G
So
I'm
glad
to
hear
that
the
cost
is
considering
getting
this
kind
of
legislation
enacted
at
the
state
level,
because
I
think
that
that
works
better
and
I'll.
Just
give
you
an
example
when
we
were
getting
ready
for
this,
I
said
to
doug.
I
think
that
your
30-day
standard
applies
only
to
working
days
and
he
said
no.
I
think
it
applies
to
all
the
time.
That's
in
the
state
and
when
you
read
the
language
in
the
bill,
it's
not
entirely
clear.
G
G
We
have
a
definition
of
related
person
or
related
party,
so
we
don't
want
gaming,
the
rules,
if
all
you
have
to
do
to
get
around
the
rule
about
how
long
this
person
has
been
in
the
state
or
or
that
sort
of
thing,
then
we
don't
want
that
happening.
That's
not
going
to
come
up
very
often.
I
don't
think
that
should
be
a
big,
a
big
issue,
but
any
kind
of
anti-abuse
rule,
I'm
a
tax
administrator
and
our
job
is
just
made
that
much
harder.
G
If
the
scaf
laws,
you
know
have
a
back
door
that
they
can,
you
know,
and
everybody
else
is
trying
to
comply
with
the
law
it
you
know
we
would.
Rather
it
just
be
an
even
level
playing
field
for
everyone,
so
so
any
kind
of
anti-abuse
rules.
That's
the
other
reason
why
I
think
state
legislation
is
often
better
because
if
you
find
out
that
there
are
abusive
practices,
it's
a
whole
lot
easier
to
go
in
and
fix
those
in
state
legislation
than
it
is
in
federal
legislation.
G
G
I
assume
that
they
know
what
they
paid
their
employees
in
past
years
and
so
what
I
would
envision-
and
we
didn't
do
this
in
our
bill-
I
mean
this
is
this
is
a
great
conversation
because
it
really
is
administrative
difficulty.
That's
the
problem.
You've
had
this
employee.
If
you
have,
I
mean
it's
kind
of
like
estimated
payments.
If
this
is
your
first
year,
you
get
a
you.
Gotta
get
out
of
jail
free
card.
G
G
It
could
be
higher,
but
I
mean
one
of
the
reasons
why
we've
excluded
some
of
these
employees
is
because
they
get
paid
a
lot
of
money
for
a
very
little
limited
amount
of
time,
and
so
it's
not
about
the
state
giving
up
just
a
small,
tiny
bit
of
money.
It's
it's
about
a
larger
amount
of
money.
So
that's
the
that's
the
concern
so.
F
The
the
other
thing
that
that
folks
have
to
remember
is
that
this
is
a
two-way
street
right.
So
let's
talk
about
new
york
is
the
state
that
is
taxing
people
who
come
into
their
their
state
they're
the
they're,
the
state
that
aggressively
enforces
it,
but
new
york
and
residents
who
travel,
make
a
lot
of
money
and
travel
to
other
states
are
not
being
taxed.
So
there's
a
mismatch.
F
If
everybody
complies,
then
there
would
be
a
wash
new
york
would
not
get
the
money
from
out
of
state
residents
because
they
would
perhaps
want
to
protect
their
own
residents
from
being
taxed
in
other
states.
So
you
know
this
is
I
mean
this
is
a
great
conversation
to
have
helen?
I
think
that
we
need
to
get
you
know.
Let's,
let's
you
know,
get
some
sort
of
law
on
the
books
that
eliminates-
and
you
know
you
said
earlier-
that
administrators
typically
don't
go
after
this
kind
of
thing.
F
G
I
would
say
having
practiced
in
the
tax
area
for
a
number
of
years,
we
overlook
little
things
all
the
time,
but
if
we
didn't,
if
we
didn't
the
system,
wouldn't
work
very
well.
But
but
let
me
just
let
me
just
make
one
other
point,
because
I
th,
because
I
do
think
there's
room
to
to
talk
about
this
issue
of
dollar
children.
But
you
made
one
other
point
about
the,
and
this
is
on
the
next
line
you
made.
C
G
F
G
F
G
If
that's
the
case,
if
that's
the
case,
I
I
think
that's
important,
because
obviously,
if
you're
reimbursing
travel
costs,
you
need
to
have
a
time
and
attendance
system,
you
need
to
have
some
kind
of
travel
tracking
system,
so
I
don't
know
if
we're
talking
the
same
thing,
but
since
since
employers
who
reimburse
the
travel
costs
of
their
employees
need
to
have
the
ability
to
show
the
irs
and
the
states,
this
is
just
a
reimbursement.
This
isn't
taxable
wages.
G
I
think
a
lot
of
employees
could
maybe
meet
that
and
here's
the
problem
that
we
have
with
the
this
idea
of
your
estimating
at
the
beginning
of
the
year.
I
travel
a
lot.
You
travel
a
lot.
I
couldn't
know
necessarily
where
I'm
going
to
be
at
the
beginning
of
the
year
for
the
next
year,
so
in
in
december,
where
I'm
going
to
be
next
november,
for
example.
So
so
we
see
that
as
being
a
big
giant
loophole
that
you
could
drive
a
truck
through.
F
H
G
F
Know
but
again,
but
on
audit
helen
the
withholding
is
still
due.
Okay,
all
it
does
is
protect
the
employer
from
a
penalty
for
late
withholding
okay.
So
if
somebody
does
work
more
than
30
days,
they
didn't
tell
their
employer
and
that's
caught
on
audit.
Then
yes,
they
don't
the
company
doesn't
get
away
with
it.
Nor
does
the
employee,
but
the
employer
doesn't
get
penalized
because
it's
employee
didn't
tell
them
so.
G
G
F
F
G
I
had
a
thought,
as
we
were
coming
into
this
presentation,
that
what
this
is
really
all
about
from
your
standpoint
and
what
you've
always
said
is
it's
administrative
ease.
This
doesn't
have
to
be
right.
Withholding
doesn't
have
to
be
right
for
the
employer
or
the
employee
until
the
end
of
january
of
the
following
year.
If
there
was
a
way
to
true
up
if
there
was
a
way
to
take
the
money
out
of
the
state
where
we
actually
paid
it
and
put
it
in
the
state
where
we
should
have
paid
it.
G
I
think
that's
an
important
part
of
this
that,
to
the
extent
that
states
say
well
we're
going
to
let
you
true
up,
you
tell
us,
you
paid
the
tax
in
the
wrong
state,
we'll
give
it
back
to
you,
you
can
go
pay
it
to
the
right
state
and
that
will
also,
I
think,
go
a
long
way.
No
penalties,
no
interest
to
to
getting
it
right
by
the.
F
Time
it
has
to
be
right
right,
no,
and
I
think
that
was
our.
That
was
our
goal
again.
If
there
is
a
time
and
attendance
system
that
was
designed
for
that
purpose,
they
they,
the
company,
has
to
use
it.
If
not,
then
they
can
rely
on
what
the
company
has
told
them
for
purposes
of
whether
a
state
can
levy
a
penalty
on
the
fact
that
their
withholding
was
incorrect.
G
F
F
Years,
yes,
and
actually
illinois
is
just
has
already
adopted
this
30-day
rule
so
very
happy.
Let's,
let's
go,
let's
spend
one
more
minute
on
the
teleworker,
because
we
could
spend
another
half
hour
on
that
issue,
and
I
just
want
to
talk
about
two
issues
here
that
are
creating
havoc
among
employers
and
that's
the
question
of
nexus.
If
a
teleworker
is
working
in
a
state
where
you
do
not
have
nexus,
does
that
create
nexus?
Courts
have
said?
F
Yes,
fortunately,
most
states
have
said:
look
we're
not
going
to
go
after
nexus
if,
during
the
temporary
pandemic,
lockdown
right,
which
is
it's
it's
great-
that
there's
a
recognition
of
that
question
is
begs
the
question:
what
happens
after
the
pandemic
is
over?
The
second
one
is:
where
does
the
employer
withhold
for
the
employee
at
their
work
location,
which
is
where
they
would
be
absent
the
pandemic
or
their
their
location
of
telework,
which
in
many
cases
the
employer
has
no
idea
where
that
employee
is?
Are
they
at
their
home?
Are
they
at
their
vacation
house?
F
F
So
those
are
the
big
issues,
but
we
have
huge
issues
with
respect
to
teleworking
because
about
I
know
I
did
a
count
that
we
we
keep.
We
have
a
I
found
a
chart
about.
Eight
states
say
that
you
have
to
withhold
in
the
location
of
the
employee,
the
employee
state
where
they
are
teleworking
from
and
about
15
states
have
said
you
have
to
continue
withholding
where
your
employee
was
working
prior
to
the
pandemic.
F
So
up
in
arms,
about
massachusetts,
assertion
of
the
convenience
and
employer
rule
that
they're
suing
new
hampshire
or
new
hampshire
suing
massachusetts
for
taxing
their
former
residents
when
they're
working
in
new
hampshire,
which
imposes
no
sales,
no
no
income
tax.
So
this
is
an
issue
that
is
is
crying
out
for
some
some
some
relief
and
at
le
at
the
very
least,
during
this
pandemic.
F
G
No,
I
mean,
I
would
just
say
the
it's
interesting.
The
massachusetts
position
is:
is
temporary,
basically
you're
you're
in
new
hampshire,
because
you're
working
remotely
because
of
the
pandemic
and
we're
going
to
continue
to
withhold
on
you
here.
I'm
not
sure
I
see
the
distinction
between
status
quo
and
what
massachusetts
is
saying.
F
So
what
happens
after
you
know
the
that's?
The
other
thing
is
that,
with
the
pandemic,
a
lot
of
companies
have
decided
that
they
can.
They
can
telework
constantly.
Then
what
happens
afterwards,
so
your
bill
would
address
teleworking.
No,
no,
your
idea
would
address
our
bill
doesn't,
and
you
know
it's
an
issue
that
we're
not
sure
if
we
have
an
issue
there,
there
are
provisions
in
the
the
the
stimulus
that
hasn't
passed.
F
That
would
address
this,
but
unfortunately
only
on
a
temporary
basis,
and
the
real
issue
is,
I
think
the
bill
goes
through
the
end
of
2020.
Obviously,
if
the
pandemic
is
extended,
it
would
have
to
be
extended
and
the
real
issue
is
what
happens
after
we're
in
a
new
normal
now,
with
a
lot
of
companies
have
gone
to
a
complete
telework
model
and
they
don't
know
where
those
folks
are
teleworking
from.
So
you
know
some
some
some
folks.
F
No,
no,
no,
I'm
just
saying
that
there
needs
to
be
some
thought
put
into
this
because
it
cuts
both
ways.
The
convenience
rule
I
you
know
is
is
it
seems
very
unfair
if
you're
continuing
to
tax
a
worker
who's
doing
work
in
a
state
that
that
is
they're
not
receiving
any
benefits
from
so
quite
the
opposite.
F
So
do
we
have
any
questions?
Let
me
see
if
there's
any,
I
don't
see
any
in
the
chat,
no
questions.
You
know
this
is
an
ongoing
issue
and
you
know
it's
it's
it's
right
in
the
it's,
it's
of
of
utmost
concern
to
a
lot
of
companies
right
now,
because
teleworkers
are
saying
I'm
working
in
pennsylvania.
Why
are
you
withholding
in
new
york
or
why
are
you
withholding
in
new
jersey
right?
F
A
Thank
you,
okay.
Well,
thank
you
friends.
I
appreciate
that
very
spirited
discussion
about
the
remote
workforce
issue,
which
I
know
we're
all
handling
right
now
we're
all
dealing
with
it.
So
actually,
let's
go.
Let's
shorten
our
break
by
a
few
minutes
here,
so
we
can
stay
on
track.
Let's
maybe
regroup
at
well.
Let's
see
it's
14
26.
Why
don't
we
regroup
it?
Let's
say:
2
30,
well,
2,
30,
2
32,
something
like
that.
We'll
regroup,
okay,
friends!
Well,
we'll
cut
it.
A
A
A
B
A
A
H
Thanks
for
linda,
thank
you,
representative,
marco
happy
to
be
with
everybody
virtually
here
to
talk
about
what
states
have
been
doing
in
response
to
the
pandemic
induced
recession
and
how
that
compares
to
prior
recessions.
For
those
who
don't
know
me,
I've
had
the
good
fortune
of
working
with
this
task
force
now
since
its
inception
nearly
20
years
ago,
and
glad
that
we're
continuing
on
in
a
different
way
jocelyn,
you
can
go
ahead
and
advance
the
slide
great
thanks.
H
Second,
although
all
reception
recessions
have
some
sort
of
geographic
variability,
this
one
is
much
different.
It's
essentially
a
rolling
recession
affecting
different
regions
at
different
times,
and
now
you
know,
apparently,
most
challenges
are
in
the
upper
midwest,
although
we
don't
know
what
next
week,
let
alone
next
month
is
going
to
bring
and
then
finally,
not
only
do
we
know
why
the
recession
started.
We
also
know
exactly
how
it
will
end.
The
question
is:
when
will
we
get
there
and
how
do
we
get
there
again
because
it
is
induced
by
government
action?
H
Obviously,
the
longer
things
go,
the
greater
the
underlying
economic
dislocations,
especially
for
certain
industries
like
hospitality
and
travel,
but
for
the
most
part
we
actually
know
how
it
will
end.
We
just
don't
know
how
to
get
there
right
now,
apparently,
as
a
result
of
the
difference
between
this
recession
and
pastor
sessions,
we've
seen
widely
varying
estimates
for
the
impact
on
state
revenues.
H
The
center
on
budget
policy
priorities,
which
does
great
work
early
on
in
may
estimated
that
fiscal
year
2021,
would
see
about
a
40
drop
in
state
revenues
or
a
40
budget
gap
and
then
in
august,
updated
that
to
about
20
and
subsequently
hasn't
done
any
further
updates.
But
moody's
in
september
introduced
an
estimate
that
put
it
at
about
11
revenue
deficit
deficit
for
fiscal
year
2021..
I
think
that
really
just
highlights
how
challenging
this
recession
has
been.
What's
the
takeaway
from
that?
H
The
other
thing
too,
that's
different
about
this,
and
it
goes
back
to
what
I
said
earlier
about
variability
as
the
effect
on
individual
states.
Kansas
just
put
out
some
new
revenue
numbers
last
week,
suggesting
that
they're
going
to
see
fiscal
year,
2021
revenue
that
is
11.7
percent
higher
than
fiscal
year
20..
So,
although
there
was
a
small
depression
for
kansas
and
fiscal
year,
20
a
small
reduction
in
revenue
that
fiscal
year
2021
is
actually
now
trending
above
average
and
every
time
they're
measuring
it.
H
California,
on
the
other
hand,
although
again
doing
better
than
initially
anticipated,
is
now
projecting
that
revenues
will
be
2.3
lower
in
fiscal
year
2021
than
they
were
in
fiscal
year
20..
Another
thing
that
is
complicating
factors
is
that
much
of
the
current
state
revenue
strength
has
been
driven
by
federal
relief
to
individuals
and
businesses.
H
Jocelyn
next
slide,
please,
I
don't
have
much
to
say
here
other
than
to
provide
some
data
to
something
that
state
legislators
and
legislative
leaders
already
know,
which
is
for
the
most
part.
When
you
encounter
a
fiscal
downturn,
taxes
are
not
in
fact
the
primary
way
that
that
shortfall
is
addressed
again
from
cbp.
H
Looking
at
the
great
recession,
they
estimated
that
45
of
all
actions
to
balance
budgets
during
the
great
recession
came
from
spending
cuts,
another
quarter
almost
from
from
federal
stimulus
and
15
from
rainy
day
funds
and
others,
and
then
about
16
from
tax
increases.
So
on
average
about
one
out
of
every
seven
dollars
to
fix,
the
shortfall
in
the
great
recession
came
from
new
taxes
and
we're
seeing
similar
actions
as
thus
far
I'll
get
into
that.
H
A
little
bit
more
states
did
come
into
this
recession
with
healthy,
rainy
day
funds,
although
they
have
been
for
the
most
part
depleted.
There
has
been
substantial
federal
relief,
not
only
direct
state
and
local,
but
also
to
the
economy
itself.
Although
again
that
is
a
present
drying
up-
and
I
know
where
linda
addressed
earlier
on
what
things-
what
we
see
happening
right
now,
still
a
lot
of
uncertainty
there
and
then
state
tax
actions
are
actually
highly
unusual
in
the
first
year,
which
leads
me
into
my
next
slide.
H
Unfortunately,
we
have
great
data
from
ncsl
on
state
tax
actions
going
back
15
or
more
years,
and
so
they
were
able
to
go
through
those
and
catalog
the
changes
that
states
made,
and
we
looked
only
at
five
states
because
50
frankly
was
too
many.
These
five
states
have
represented
good
geographic
diversity,
political
diversity
and
also
economic
diversity,
and
so
thought
were
a
good
representative
sample,
especially
as
they're
among
the
more
populous
states.
H
In
neither
of
the
two
earlier
recessions
did
states
move
to
enact
significant
tax
increases
in
the
year
of
the
recession.
In
fact,
of
2001
overall
states
cut
taxes
on
a
net
basis,
there's
a
variety
of
reasons
for
that
not
the
least
of
which
is
the
timing
of
the
recession
in
both
cases,
2001
and
then
2007.
H
The
bulk
of
all
tax
increases
that
were
adopted
came
in
years
two
and
three
following
the
recession
and
interestingly-
and
I
think,
probably
not
surprisingly-
there
was
great
variability
among
these
states
and
I'm
just
going
to
look
at
a
couple
numbers
here.
Following
the
great
recession,
california
and
new
york,
increased
taxes
by
a
combined
21
billion
dollars.
Well,
florida,
pennsylvania
and
texas,
which
are
about
equivalent
from
a
population
perspective,
increased
taxes
by
a
combined
2.6
billion,
so
the
increases
in
new
york
and
california
were
about
eight
times
higher
than
the
other
three
states.
H
When
you,
when
you
have
fairly
similar
populations
between
those
two
groups
of
the
80,
some
odd
discrete
tax
increases
that
were
enacted
by
these
five
states
during
the
two
recessions.
I
think
this
is
a
really
interesting
point.
That
sort
of
confounded
me
at
first
only
four
of
those
were
rate
increases
on
broad-based
taxes.
So
I
would
have
thought
the
rational
response.
When
you
need
revenue.
Look
at
one
of
the
broad-based
taxes,
the
personal
income,
tax
sales
tax
and
increase
the
rate,
an
amount
that's
equivalent
to
the
revenue
hole.
H
H
When
you
look
at
these
states,
it
might
be
easy
to
assign
some
partisan
flavor
to
it.
Saying,
like
aha,
of
course,
california
and
new
york
had
the
bigger
tax
increases,
they
tend
to
be
more
democratic
states,
although
that's
true
at
a
very
high
level,
when
you
look
at
these
two
time
periods,
it's
important
to
remember.
H
In
california,
governor
schwarzenegger
republican
was
the
governor
during
the
great
recession
and
in
new
york
it
was
governor
pataki
in
a
republican
senate
for
the
dot-com
bust,
and
then
a
republican
senate
again
for
the
great
recession
and
pennsylvania
had
a
democratic
which
did
not
increase
taxes
much
out
of
democratic
governor
governor
ed
rendell
during
the
recession.
So,
although
certainly
partisan
differences
play
a
role,
it
is
more,
I
think,
a
reflection
of
the
underlying
electorate,
as
well
as
the
actual
economic
conditions
that
were
evident
in
those
states.
H
Next
slide,
please
jocelyn.
So
what
have
states
done
so
far?
They've
acted
entirely
consistently
with
what
we
would
expect,
given
what
we've
seen
from
past
recessions,
as
some
of
the
other
speakers
have
talked
about.
Doug
and
helen
just
talked
about
mobile
workforce
earlier
fred
and
craig
were
talking
and
diane
talking
about
marketplace
fairness.
So
states
have
looked
at
administrative
actions
to
extend
filing
deadlines.
H
Modifying
nexus
requirements,
not
every
state
but
several
states.
Many
states
in
fact
have
done
this
new
york
being
one
of
the
primary
exceptions
which
which
doug
and
helen
you
know
talked
about
as
part
of
this
overall
mobile
workforce
effort.
There's
been
some
tax
reductions
in
some
states.
Conforming
to
the
cares
act
in
certain
circumstances
which
results
in
some
business
tax
relief
predominantly
and
then
a
few
tax
increase
actions.
H
The
only
real
tax
increase-
I
can
point
to
that's
happened
thus
far
is
in
new
jersey,
which
extended
and
increased
some
tax
rates
on
higher
individual
incomes
and
also
on
businesses.
There's
a
host
of
other
changes
that
new
jersey
adopted-
and
this
may
not
be
surprising
when
we
remember
that
new
jersey's
election
cycle
is
different
than
most
states.
They
are
having
an
election
next
year.
H
H
The
first
thing
is
some
sort
of
joint
legislative
executive
branch
sharing
now,
in
some
of
the
larger
states,
legislatures
have
a
full
complement
of
fiscal
staff.
Who
can
do
independent
analyses,
but
for
most
states?
That's
not
the
case.
You
have
competent
staff,
great
staff
in
most
cases,
but
they
don't
have
the
same
amount
of
data
that
the
executive
branch
agencies
have,
and
so,
when
you're,
in
an
environment
that
is
as
fluid
as
this
one
is
with
regard
to
underlying
economic
activity.
H
Is
it
going
to
be
a
little
bit
more?
Is
it
going
to
be
a
little
bit
less,
obviously
we're
in
a
very
different
environment?
I
also
recommend
that
legislators
legislative
leadership's
liaison
with
key
employers
of
the
state-
it's
important
not
only
to
get
official
government
data
but
to
get
more
granular
data
from
business
leaders
about
what
they're
doing
are
they
bringing
employees
back
to
their
offices
or
places
of
businesses?
Are
they
investing
in
capital
expenditures?
H
H
It
is
the
larger
higher
level
trends
which
I
think
are
most
important
and
then,
as
I
talked
a
little
bit
before
that
you
know,
temporary
problems
really
demand
temporary
solutions.
It
is
not
their
time
right
now.
I
don't
think
to
look
at
wholesale
changes
in
your
tax
structure,
because
we
don't
really
know
what's
happening
with
the
restructuring
of
the
underlying
economy
and
trying
to
restructure
your
tax
system.
Right
now
only
injects
further
uncertainty
into
a
system
and
then
the
final
point
be
patient
and
then
reflecting
on
new
jersey,
but
be
decisive.
H
I
do
think
it
makes
sense
to
wait
until
you're
coming
into
session
of
january,
you've
got
six
months
worth
of
data
on
how
revenues
perform
before
you
go
too
far
down
the
path
of
formulating
revenue
responses.
I
know
in
some
states
that
can
be
a
challenge
states
like
virginia,
which
really
only
meet
during
january
and
february
georgia.
H
You
know
you're
out,
if
I
remember
correctly,
at
the
the
very
first
week
of
april
and
a
number
of
other
short
session
states
have
that
same
challenge,
but
I
do
think
you
know
it
does
make
sense
to
wait
as
long
as
possible,
but
once
you've
decided
that
you
need
to
make
some
sort
of
revenue
change,
I
think
it's
important
to
be
decisive.
That
makes
the
politics
obviously
a
little
bit
easier,
but
I
also
think
you
know
in
january
we're
going
to
be
six
months
through
this
fiscal
year.
H
If
it
becomes
clear
that
you're
going
to
need
revenue
increases
to
balance
your
budgets
for
the
current
fiscal
year,
you're
going
to
want
to
move
as
quickly
as
possible
so
that
you,
you
give
taxpayers
the
notice
that
they
need,
and
you
can
actually
collect
some
of
that
revenue
to
help
accomplish
the
budget
goals
for
fiscal
year.
2021.
H
H
There
we
go
okay,
so
a
couple
of
recommendations,
I'm
going
to
close
with
things
that
I
think
you
should
do
and
then
I'm
going
to
follow
with
things
that
I
think
you
probably
shouldn't
do
and
then
happy
to
happy
to
take
questions.
I
see
there's
one
in
the
chat
right
now.
I
think
nope,
it's
not
a
question
I'll
try
to
keep
an
eye
on
that.
H
So
first
thing
is
the
inclination
when
governments
are
having
a
bunch
of
trouble
is
to
do
across
the
board
cuts-
and
I
understand
that
need,
but
I
think
it's
exactly
the
wrong
time
to
think
about
cutting
your
departments
of
revenue,
and
I
say
that
for
two
reasons.
First
of
all,
obviously
you
as
legislators
need
all
the
help
you
can
get
from
the
executive
branch
in
collecting
legally
due
and
payable
taxes.
H
As
everyone's
trying
to
get
by
and
trying
to
save
money,
it's
if
not
it's
somewhat
natural
activity
for
many
people
to
try
to
avoid
additional
unnecessary
expenses
when
they're
having
challenges
putting
a
food
on
the
table
and
I'm
sympathetic
to
that.
But
I
think
that
you
need
to
make
sure
that
your
revenue
department
has
the
resources
they
need
to
be
able
to
keep
the
system
functioning
properly.
Now.
The
second
thing
is,
you
should
get
technical.
H
H
It's
not
always
the
case
that
states
require
that
same
information
be
reported
to
state
tax
agencies,
there's
also
some
things
at
the
federal
level
which
don't
frankly,
make
sense,
but
because
how
how
slowly
congress
moves
we
haven't
seen
resolution.
So
one
example
is
the
1099-k
form,
which
is
one
of
the
various
information
reports
that
taxpayers
provide
to
the
internal
revenue
service
for
much
of
the
gig
economy.
H
Those
forms
are
not
provided
unless
the
the
taxpayer
is
engaged
with
the
contractor
for
more
than
200
separate
transactions
in
a
year
that
total
more
than
20
thousand
dollars.
You
know
those
are
very
high
thresholds
for
some
of
these
things,
and
so
you've
got
a
situation
then,
where
taxpayers
may
not
know
that
they
have
obligations
either
for
income
taxes
or
for
other
taxes
at
the
state
level,
and
state
agencies
aren't
getting
that
information.
Massachusetts
and
vermont
have
both
addressed
this
issue
and
other
states
should
consider
doing
so.
H
The
other
thing
is
to
work
with
certified
service
providers
to
facilitate
sales
tax
collection,
especially
for
smaller
vendors,
as
as
diane
and
fred
I
went
through
earlier.
This
is
something
that
we
know
that
the
ncsl
has
been
a
leader
in
and
that
the
streamlined
states
have
already
addressed,
but
there's
a
lot
of
states
that
are
on
the
phone
here
today
that
are
not
streamlined
states.
H
There
are
still
things
that
you
can
do
as
craig
talked
about
as
fred
talked
about
and
diane
talked
about,
that
go
short
of
fully
adopting
the
streamline
model,
but
still
make
advances
for
taxpayers
and
one
of
those
is
to
certify
service
providers
so
that
they
can
assist
especially
smaller
out-of-state
vendors,
but
really
vendors
across
the
board
in
complying
with
their
sales
tax
regimes.
And
then
you
know,
if
all
else
fails,
you
know
you
should
consider
tax
increases,
but
I
think
you
should
do
that
with
in
a
temporary
fashion,
as
I've
indicated
before
with
sunset
dates.
H
H
If
you
make
the
adjustment
temporary
and
make
it
clear
with
the
sunset
date,
not
only
does
it
apply
the
appropriate
political
inducement
to
revisit
that
increase
when
times
improve,
but
it
also
provides
some
relief
for
for
business
taxpayers
from
a
financial
statement
impact
and
then,
finally,
and
probably
most
controversially,
I'm
going
to
tell
you
what
not
to
do
so
jocelyn,
I
feel
confessed
to
the
last
slide:
do
not
create
a
blue
ribbon
tax
reform.
Commission
look,
I
love
testifying
before
commissions.
H
H
The
second
thing
is:
don't
rely
on
tax
expenditure
reports.
Nearly
every
state
has
a
tax
expenditure
report
and
nearly
all
of
them
are
very,
very
bad,
and
I
don't
mean
that,
because
the
people
who
prepare
them
don't
know
what
they're
doing
they
do.
It's
generally
because
the
direction
they've
received,
whether
it's
through
legislation
or
an
executive
branch
action
on
how
to
put
these
reports
together,
doesn't
make
any
distinction
between
a
true
tax
expenditure
and
a
deduction,
a
credit
or
something
else.
H
That's
part
of
the
ordinary
tax
basis,
for
example
the
aforementioned
net
operating
loss
deduction
or
in
the
sales
tax
as
sales
for
resale
exemption.
I
wouldn't
consider
either
one
of
those
remotely
close
to
a
tax
expenditure.
They're
part
of
the
normal
business
income
tax
base,
they're
part
of
the
normal
sales
tax
base,
but
nearly
every
tax
expenditure
report
will
will
look
at
those.
So
I'm
not
saying
you
shouldn't
look
at
these
reports.
I'm
just
saying
you
shouldn't
rely
on
them
without
additional
information,
I'm
not
an
incentives.
H
Guy
I've
never
worked
on
tax
incentives
in
my
life.
It's
not
been
part
of
my
practice
either
currently
or
when
I
was
with
the
council
on
state
taxation,
but
I
still
think
that
you
need
to
be
careful
about
looking
at
those
lists
of
exemptions
and
exclusions
and
credits
and
drawing
the
conclusion,
which
I
think
is
inappropriate-
that
all
of
them
are
kind
of
right
for
changing
because
they
represent
some
perversion.
If
you
will
of
the
tax
system.
H
Second,
to
last,
I
don't
suggest
taxing
business
inputs.
There
is,
I
think,
an
inclination
across
the
board
to
look
at
sales
tax
reform.
I
think
that's
an
appropriate
thing
to
do,
but
what's
interesting
when
you
look
at
sales
tax
base
reform-
and
you
hear
every
economist
say
that
states
should
be
taxing
more
consumption.
H
People
forget
the
second
part
of
the
sentence,
which
is
accept
that
you
shouldn't
tax
business
inputs,
I'm
sure
fred
or
any
of
the
other
folks
at
cost
would
be
dying
to
jump
in
and
say
you
know,
share
some
of
the
great
data
that
they
have
on
how
much
of
the
business
input
or
how
much
of
the
sales
tax
base
is
already
business
inputs.
Expanding
the
sales
tax
base,
the
business
inputs
during
an
economic
attraction.
It's
a
bad
thing
to
do
it's
a
bad
thing
to
do
anyway.
H
I
could
probably
talk
on
this
for
a
full
hour,
but
I'll
save
all
of
you
and
orlando
would
be
happy
to
come
back
at
another
time
and
then
finally,
don't
go
crazy.
I
mean
the
reality.
Is
it's
easy
to
go
crazy
when
you're
dealing
with
not
only
all
of
the
things
that
are
happening
in
the
legislative
world,
but
also
in
the
personal
world,
and
still
uncertainty
about
exactly
how
legislators
are
going
to
meet
and
debate?
H
H
Many
of
them
focus
on
how
to
manage
through
this
current
crisis,
so
that
in
the
future,
when
times
are
better,
we
can
talk
about
whether
fundamental
wholesale
changes
are
necessary.
I
personally
don't
believe,
there's
such
thing
as
an
ideal
state
tax
system
or
an
ideal
tax
base.
I
think
it's
a
trade-off
that
is
always
going
to
need
to
be
made
and
it's
going
to
vary
that
trade-off
from
state
to
state,
but
even
though
I
don't
believe
in
one,
I'm
always
happy
to
debate
that
too.
H
A
A
Okay,
well,
I
appreciate
that
joe
again,
a
very
good
historical
context
that
you
provided
for
us
here.
As
you
mentioned,
what
we
are
enduring
right
now
is
something
very
unique,
extremely
unprecedented
and
continues
to
to
throw
uncertainty
at
us,
which
is
which
is
the
big
item
here
and
actually
that
is
sort
of
a
nice.
A
A
B
Erlinda
this
is
john.
If
you
want
me
to
chime
in
we'll
get
to
get
stuff
started.
I
first
of
all
joel
joe-
I
I
think
you're,
absolutely
right
and
julie
commented
on
it
don't
form
a
task
force.
I
think
that
was
pretty
pretty
smart
and
the
problem
with
joe,
though,
is
you
guys
is
he
considers
coffee
a
business
input?
So
you
know
he.
B
B
Now,
I'd
like
to
tell
you,
we
could
see
that
we
were
going
to
have
a
an
explosion
in
online
purchases,
but
of
course
nobody
could
see
that.
But
it
was
just
some
great
work
and
I
think
it
just
goes
to
show
that
good
quality
policy
is
always
good
quality
policy.
In
this
case,
it
was
better
than
we
expected.
The
state
of
wisconsin
has
had
run
about
a
1.1
billion
dollar
surplus.
B
In
spite
of
a
lot
of
the
tax
relief,
we
did
a
half
a
billion
dollar
tax
reduction
package
in
the
last
biennium
and
then,
of
course,
I
just
mentioned
the
reduction
offsetting.
The
the
internet
sales
tax
against
income,
which
looks
like
it'll,
be
another
400
million
dollars,
and
even
then
we
still
were
running
about
a
1.1
billion
dollar
surplus.
Of
course
that's
gone.
B
We
did
save
about
upwards
of
800
million
dollars
into
our
rainy
day
fund,
which
is
unheard
of
about
half
of
what
I
think
it
should
be.
I
share
ways
and
means,
and
then
we
look
like
we
will
probably
be
looking
at
around
a
two
billion
dollar.
Biennium
shortfall,
so
not
fun,
and
we
will
be
looking
at
some
of
those
issues.
The
the
committee
has
done
some
great
ideas,
you
know,
do
you
raise?
Do
you
raise
revenue?
B
Do
you
raise
revenue
in
the
midst
of
of
a
of
climbing
back
out
of
a
hole?
I
think
that's
very
hard.
Fortunately,
wisconsin
is
heavy
in
manufacturing
and
that
sector
has
been
good.
We
are
either
number
one
or
number
two
in
jobs
and
manufacturing,
depending
between
us
and
indiana
depending
on
the
year,
so
we've
got
some
resources,
but
it
will
be
tough
and
I
think
the
other
issue
and
I'd
be
curious
to
know.
B
Maybe
this
could
be
another
topic
at
some
point
in
time
here,
linda
I'm
old
enough,
I'm
62,
I'm
old
enough
to
remember
when,
in
the
early
80s
we
broke
up
ma
bell
and
it
went
from
ma
bell
to
to
all
of
the
little
what
we
call
the
baby
bells
that
we
have
now
today
and
that
was
gut
wrenching.
That
was
gut
wrenching
for
that
industry.
People
lost
jobs,
the
the
entire
paradigm
shifted,
but
it
brought
on
this.
B
This
thing
I
mean
you
know
we
wouldn't
have
had
that
and
you
couple
with
that
exactly
at
the
same
time,
in
around
1980,
we
deregulated
the
trucking
industry.
Now
again,
I
know
that's
40-year
history,
but
I
want
you
to
understand
the
ramifications
of
that
prior
to
what
we
had
prior
to
what
we
have
now.
There
was
no
such
thing
as
it
was
much.
The
trucking
industry
was
regulated
very
much
like
the
airline
industry
is
regulated
now,
it's
awful
and
so
true
you
had
to
buy
a
train
load
of
of
rear
axles.
B
Let's
say
if
you're
in
the
car
manufacturing
business
you
had
to
buy
a
train
load
of
rear
axles
and
you
had
to
buy
weeks
worth
of
supply
because
that's
how
long
it
took
you
to
get
it,
and
now
we
have
what's
called
the
just-in-time
delivery
system,
so
we
can
now
use
those
two
technologies.
So
anytime
a
paradigm
shifts
everything
goes
back
to
zero
and
we
we're
able
to
sit
in
our
living
room
order,
all
of
our
groceries
all
of
our
stuff
from
this
thing
here
and
have
them
drop
shipped
instantly
at
our
front
porch.
B
That
was
not
even
possible
in
in
1980,
because
the
systems
weren't
in
place.
So
my
question
is
what
is
that
today
and
so
when
we
sit
and
look
at
it,
we
have
12
universities
here
in
the
state
of
wisconsin,
and
I
got
to
be
honest
with
you.
We
gave
the
university
of
eau
claire
a
quarter
of
a
million
dollars
last
year
for
a
new
bill.
Excuse
me:
a
quarter
of
a
billion
dollars
last
year
for
a
new
building,
and
maybe
all
we
need
to
do
is
buy
a
new
camera.
B
So
I
say
that
tongue-in-cheek,
but
we
absolutely
some
of
the
issues
we're
going
to
have
in
spending
is:
what
are
we
spending
money
on
and
so
that's
going
to
be
a
very,
very
difficult
discussion
to
have
I
mean
again,
I
don't
mean
to
pick
on
universities,
I
they
serve
a
great
role,
but
again
we
used
to
tongue.
In
you
know
all
the
universities,
particularly
university
of
madison.
In
wisconsin,
we
used
to
look
down
our
nose
at
the
university
of
phoenix.
Oh,
that's,
not
a
real
university.
They
don't
even
have
a
building.
B
Well
guess
what
now
they're
all
the
university
of
phoenix
and
they
got
worse
tech
support.
So
as
a
legislator,
that's
got
to
allocate
resources
to
that.
Those
are
some
of
the
challenges
that
we're
going
to
have
and
say
we
really
need
to
zero
base.
This
conversation
and
say:
do
we
need
12
campuses
and,
if
you're,
all
putting
in
a
virtual
system,
do
we
need
a
digital
managers
in
every
single
one?
B
Do
we
need
studios
in
every
single
one,
and
so
those
are
going
to
be
some
very,
very
difficult
questions
for
us
to
ask,
as
we
look
at
both
the
revenue
side
and
the
spending
side
in
the
state
of
wisconsin,
I'm
curious
and
senator
and
rest
you're
in
minnesota,
just
next
door
to
us.
Are
you
on
with
us
today?
What
thoughts
do
you
have?
What
are
you
guys,
gonna
be
doing
or
looking
at
see
if
ann.
I
J
All
right,
thank
you,
so
I
think
what's
interesting.
What's
going
on
in
nevada,
everybody
knows
that
we're
tourism
and
gaming
based
and
so
when,
when
covet
hit,
tourism
represented
about
600
million
dollars
in
our
budget.
That
literally
didn't
come
in,
and
so
the
conversation
that
we're
having
now
is
number
one.
What
is
the
new
business
model?
That's
going
to
play
out
with
gaming,
so
then
we
can
decide
what
is
an
effective
tax
policy
structure
that
makes
sense
for
the
new
business
model.
That's
going
to
be
revived
number
two.
J
I
see
going
forward
that
we
may
have
some
progressive
versus
business
issues.
There
are
some
progressive
groups
that
are
pushing
to
increase
our
real
estate
transfer
tax
and
so
what
they
call
mcmansions
right,
let's
tax
the
big
homes
and
then
also
they
want
to
try
to
tax
capital
gains
because
they
feel
like
they
want
to
go
after
investments,
and
so
there's
this
there's
this
movement
that
I
feel
is
happening.
J
I
I
have
a
question
for
you
legislators
out
there
and
I
guess
joe
as
well,
you
know
looking
at
how
states
across
the
country
are
starting
to
shut
down
again.
I
know
there's
a
lot
of
resistance
to
that
in
some
areas,
but
are
are
those
decisions
being
factored
into
your
planning
for
2021?
Is
that
interrupting
your?
Your
ability
to
you
know,
really
focus
on
set
priorities,
and
you
know,
assuming
I
think,
like
the
moody's
analysis,
we've
been
joe
mentioned.
I
H
Jackson,
I'll
jump
in
I
mean
great
great
questions
and
and
that's
a
significant
part
of
the
uncertainty
right
now.
I
would
make
two
observations,
though,
to
contrast
with
what
happened
in
the
spring
first
from
a
government
intervention
perspective,
we
are
far
more
nuanced
now
than
some
of
those
early
shutdowns,
where
you
know
which
is
sort
of
shut
everything
down
stay
home,
so
the
interventions
are
more
targeted
and
thus
have
less
of
a
detrimental
impact
on
the
economy
and
then
second,
not
only
individuals,
but
particularly
businesses
have
learned
how
to
manage
with
the
pandemic.
H
Now
that's
worked
to
a
greater
or
lesser
extent,
depending
on
you
know
where
you
are
the
type
of
industry
you're
in,
but
you
know
like,
for
example,
in
my
business.
I
think
it
was
like
a
lot
of
businesses.
You
know
we
went
from
one
day
encouraging
people
to
not
come
in
if
they
were
ill
to
be.
You
know
careful
and
then
literally
24
hours
later
said
office
is
shut.
H
You
can't
come
in
there's
a
lot
more
flexibility
now,
and
so
I
think
the
business
community
is
better
able
to
deal
with
that
supply
chains
have
been
replenished
for
the
most
part,
there's
still
some
dislocations
there
as
well.
So
I
I
think
the
increased
caseload
is
undoubtedly
going
to
have
a
negative
impact
on
economic
activity.
B
Spring
yeah
and
I
think
jackson
we're
assuming
things
are,
I
mean
I
think
the
marketplace
is
doing
exactly
what
you
expect
the
marketplace
to
do,
and
so
I
think
what
we're
seeing
is
you
don't
need
to
put
limits
on
restaurants?
The
people
are
already
doing
that.
You
don't
have
to
put
a
50
limit
on
a
restaurant
they're,
not
50
full
anyway.
So
I
think
what
joe
was
saying
is
is
true,
we're
starting
to
see
the
economic
reactions
in
the
state
of
wisconsin.
B
We
have
some
things
that
we
have
to
do
to
support,
to
continue
to
support
the
nursing
home
industry
and
the
hospital
industry
and
we're
absolutely
willing
and
prepared
to
do
that,
but
we're
making
the
assumption
that
we're
not
going
to
go
through
some
more
shutdowns.
I
think
joe's
right.
I
think
it's
become
much
more
nuanced
and
targeted
and
and
the
marketplace
has
adjusted
and
people
have
developed
new
habits.
B
Now
now
I'll
have
to
tell
you
I
have
not
looked
at
the
data,
I
mean
you
know
what
we're
going
to
need
to
do
into
joe's
point
again
and-
and
I
think
one
of
the
other
guys
too
is
we're
going
to
have
to
wait
till
we
get
a
little
bit
more
data
to
look
at
all
the
various
revenue
streams.
I
mean
it's
just
it's
not
just
sales
tax,
it's
it's!
It's
use
tax,
it's
excise
tax,
it's
it!
It's
corporate
revenue,
it's
income
tax!
B
I
mean
we
got
to
take
a
look
at
all
of
those
issues
and
keep
in
mind
most
of
us
pushed
off
our
our
revenue
numbers.
I
mean,
I
don't
think
we
had
to
fight.
I
don't
think
I
filed
my
taxes
until
like
four
weeks
ago,
and
so
you
know
the
ramifications
of
all
of
that
have
yet
to
be
felt.
Yet
so
I
mean
we,
you
know
we're
trying
to
make
decisions.
I
think
with
insufficient
data,
but
you
asked:
do
we
see
that
continuing
to
happen?
I
Well,
if
you
don't
have
any
more
comments,
I
would
like
to
first
pitch
a
webinar
that
our
fiscal
program
is
hosting
in
two
days
there
I'll
put
that
in
the
chat
box.
But
there
are
a
couple
familiar
faces
to
the
task
force
harley
duncan
with
kpmg
and
david
bernard
with
george
washington
university,
who
will
be
speculating
about
states,
potential
state
tax
actions
in
2021
and
providing
their
opinions
on.
You
know
what
they
would
be
wise
to
consider
moving
forward,
and
that
will
be
this
thursday
at
2pm.
So.
B
A
good
way
to
build
on
this
conversation
here
today
and
I
would
like
to
suggest
I
mentioned
to
erlin
on
the
phone
yesterday,
but
you
know
apparently
florida.
There
is
no
covet
that
they're
completely
open,
so
I'm
going
to
propose
that
we
go
there
because
I
need
to
be
at
a
beach.
You
know
I've
not
done
any
traveling
this
year
and
I'm
starting
to
get
crazy.
So
I'm
all
in
everyone
to
just
tell
me
and
I'll,
be
there.
A
Okay,
well,
thank
you.
I
think
we
are
all
waiting
until
we
can
travel
so
somewhere
together
and
and
gather
somewhat
safely,
but
you
know
I
appreciate
everyone's
participation
today
you
know
and
of
course,
all
of
our
sponsors
we
we
definitely
are
grateful
for
your
continued
support,
especially
during
this
crazy
crazy
time.
A
We
know
that
eventually,
we'll
hit
some
sort
of
normality
where
we
can
get
together
in
person,
but
in
that,
but
in
the
meantime
we
continue
to
try
to
bring
programming
to
you
in
a
virtual
format
that
is
still
useful,
practical
and
applicable
to
hopefully
what
you're
doing
at
the
states
right
now
we
don't
have
a
plan
to
meet
in
person
for
form,
of
course,
which
we
normally
have
in
december.
So
that's
you
know
pretty.
I
guess
expected
at
this
point
a
bar,
a
beach
and
a
bartender
okay.
A
That
sounds
great.
I
love
that
idea.
I
think
we
all.
I
think,
that's
all.
We
need
right
now
too,
but
we
will
stay
tuned
and
stay
focused
and,
as
you
know
getting
into
the
next
year,
we
will
be
again
trying
to
upgrade
and
relaunch
a
lot
of
the
things
that
we
tried
to
do
this
year.
So
please
do
stay
tuned
and-
and
we
do
appreciate
your
support,
going
forward
and
and
hope
to
continue
to
see
you
here
as
we
move
forward.