►
Description
Join the incredible line up of panelists as they discuss Appchain Economic Designs during Near Day at ETHDenver 2023.
--
Join NEAR's community:
Website: https://near.org/
Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/nearprotocol/
Discord: https://near.chat/
Medium: https://medium.com/nearprotocol
Blog: https://near.org/blog/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/NEARProtocol
GitHub: https://github.com/near https://github.com/nearprotocol
Dev Docs: https://docs.near.org/
Create a wallet: https://wallet.near.org/create
Apps on NEAR: https://awesomenear.com/
Learn to Build On NEAR: https://www.near.university/
Grants & Funding: https://near.org/grants/
#Blockchain #FutureisNEAR #NEAR #nearprotocol
#nft #dao
A
Good
morning
guys,
thank
you
so
much
for
coming
out
to
near
day,
we've
got
an
interesting
panel
for
you
here
today
talking
about
near
being
present
multi-chain.
We
can't
just
talk
about
it.
We
have
to
talk
about
it
and
talk
to
other
chains
about
it.
So
please
welcome
our
panelists
from
calimero
from
Dao
Dao
from
Aurora
and
from
ref
Finance.
A
So
we
have
an
interesting
little
setup
here
of
chairs
I'm
kind
of
more
used
to
one
chair
per
panelist,
but,
interestingly
enough
sitting.
Next
to
me
we
have
Dao
Dao,
and
then
we
have
the
near
ecosystem
on
the
couch,
so
I'm
kind
of
glad
I
have
my
own
chair
kind
of
fun
to
start
the
morning
off.
Let's
ask
a
question
to
refinance
and
see
how
refinance
might
see
some
of
the
stuff
that
we
want
to
discuss
right,
app
chain
economics
in
general.
A
This
is
an
advanced
panel,
so
we're
not
going
to
spend
all
the
time
talking
about
what
app
chains
are.
You
should
know
that
an
app
chain
is
an
application,
specific
blockchain
right.
So
knowing
that
there
are
needs
for
near
tokens,
there
are
needs
for
stable
coins.
You
know
there's
needs
for
governance
outside
of
near
connected
to
near
for
ref
finance.
That
means
interoperability
with
Aurora.
B
Yeah
so
quick
background
about
refinance
refers
the
leading
ducks
on
here
and
I'm
Ray
researcher
on
refinance
so
replying
to
the
questions.
B
I
think
how
action
can
come
into
play,
especially
in
Defy,
is
kind
of
the
problem
that
I've
changed
solved
right,
which
is
scalability
after
all,
so
just
like
how
dydx
is
kind
of
recently
announcing
moving
on
to
Cosmo
with
app
chain
idea,
I
think.
Similarly,
you
know
with
the
additional
scalability
and
you
know,
gas
reduce
and
gas
speed.
B
It
really
helps
kind
of
increase,
liquidity
and
volume
being
traded
on
D5,
which
is
one
barrier
that
differentiates
between
D5
and
C5,
and
especially,
you
know
when
it
comes
to
bridging
I
think
this
is
one
very
interesting
mechanism
that
to
be
considered
where
you
know,
there's
all
these
different
chains
and
all
these
different
tokens.
How
do
you
really
Bridge
from
one
token
to
another
and
across
chains
and
I,
think
this
is
a
really
good
approach
using
App
chain.
A
A
We
don't
necessarily
permission
and
allow
things,
but
there's
still
the
question
of
you
know
who
made
the
decision
who's
liable,
who's
responsible
so
relative
to
that
I
want
to
ask
Jake
from
Dow
Dow
there's
a
lot
of
liquidity
moving
around
in
Cosmos
right
now,
some
stuff
that
we've
discussed
not
relevant
to
this
panel,
but
I'd
like
to
know
how
you
see
something
like
a
non-monolithic
L1
decks
like
ref,
Finance,
being
integrated
potentially
with
other
app
chains,
because
when
I
think
about
that
in
the
the
way
that
I've
experienced
it
it's
it's
very
small.
C
Well,
the
interchain
is
near
so
you
know,
there's
a
thing
called
IBC,
her
inner
blockchain
communication
protocol
and
it's
pretty
sick.
It's
what
makes
all
these
app
chains
work.
That's
why
you
can
have
a
decks
like
osmosis
and
anyone
can
launch
a
new
app
chain
and
they
can
permission
permissionlessly
create
a
bridge
to
osmosis
with
with
IBC,
and
you
can
do
more
things
over
your
IBC,
like
control
accounts
over
IBC,
so
like
with
doubt
out
interchained
out
to
Lane.
C
D
Well,
I
think,
as
we
open
more,
the
the
we
give
more
city
of
New
tools
that
allow
more
and
more
event
compatible
topchams
try
to
bring
a
liquidity
into
into
Aurora
an
engineer.
I
think
we
can.
You
know
we're
it's
part
of
what
we're
trying
to
achieve
it's
it's
still
in
in
the
works,
but
I
think
with
a
lot
of
Bloods
and
all
other.
You
know
new
layers
of
work
in
it.
I
think
it
will
happen
right.
D
I
think
there
might
be
some
Challenge
on
you
know,
communication
with
between
application
chains,
but
I
think
we've
been
working
on
that
I
think
the
the
rails.
Are
there
the
low
the
low
gas
the
fast
transactions
are
there
you
just
need
to
grow
the
environment.
Let
let
know
everyone
wants
to
launch
their
own
app
chains.
They
can
do
it,
they
can
go
through
us
and
yeah
I.
Think
that's
just
that
we
we
are.
We
are
getting
there.
A
Fairly
said
so,
Sandy
not
to
leave
you
out
in
the
cold
I
have
to
ask
you
also
about
kalimero,
because
kalimero
effectively
can
be
read
as
app
chains
of
near
on
near
I.
Know
that's
grossly
oversimplifying,
but
bear
with
my
bad
analogy
from
an
economic
perspective
to
my
understanding,
calamaro
doesn't
have
as
much
of
an
economic
need.
The
way
some
other
public
app
chains
might
because
kalimero
uses
private
right
calimero
specifically,
for
you
know
a
validator
set
that
is
not
supposed
to
be
for
the
public.
It's
not
supposed
to
be
permissionless,
and
that's
perfectly
fine.
A
So
getting
back
from
that
space
of
permission,
structures
to
the
permissionless
chain,
permissionless
decks.
What
do
you
think
that
means,
for
you
know
the
same
liquidity
that
we're
all
competing
for
the
same
Capital
attention
that
we're
all
competing
for
where
some
of
those
operators
just
don't
compare
about
the
public
capital.
E
Yes,
so
from
my
perspective,
Calimera
is
a
sidechain
built
on
top
of
near
and
we
are
targeting
more
like
web
2.5
use
cases
like
Enterprises,
OTC,
trades,
dark
pools
and
I
I,
don't
think
we'd
necessarily
we
are
competing
with
the
public,
defy
ecosystems,
but
bringing
more
like
new
liquidity,
probably
for
institutions
who
didn't
invest
in
crypto
before.
Obviously,
institutions
are
not
adopting
blockchains
right
now
because
of
privacy
reasons
because
of
regulatory
reasons,
and
we
are
kind
of
trying
to
build
a
side
chain
which
enables
them
to
do
so.
E
A
That's
fair.
That
makes
a
lot
of
sense,
so
I
want
to
ask
further
to
bounce
back
from
private
chains
back
to
Interchange
security,
because
Cosmos
is
doing
a
bunch
of
interesting
things
that
are
going
to
become
more
important
to
us
at
near
as
nep364
gets
finalized.
As
some
of
this
other
IBC
work
gets
a
little
bit
more
structured
I'm,
really
happy
to
see
that
some
some
ics's
are
sort
of
misunderstood,
ICS,
10
and
11
is
what
we've
been
interfacing
with
at
octopus,
we're
exciting
to
get
that
finalized.
A
So
we
can,
you
know,
help
contribute
to
part
of
that
for
the
ICS
deployment
on
near,
but,
more
importantly,
when
I
think
about
the
future
of
near
and
how
it
wants
to
be
multi-chained
in
these
Capital
relationships
with
other
entities.
I
can
think
of
how
on
map
of
zones.com
I
see
liquidity
moving
between
different
chains
on
Cosmos
in
near.
We
might
experience
that
a
little
bit
differently,
because
a
popular
Dex
is
a
more
popular
place
for
people
to
go
instead
of
bringing
their
Capital
directly
to
the
application.
So
what
do
you
think?
A
The
interchange
security
motivation
is
for
investors
because,
when
I
want
to
see
multi-chain
applications,
the
first
thing
that
people
tell
me
is
I,
don't
want
to
see
it.
I'd
rather
have
one
token
one
place.
Easy
mode
is
what
I
like
I
like
simple,
don't
think
too
hard?
How
do
you?
How
do
you
respond
to
this.
C
There's
a
lot
there.
First
of
all,
I
cannot
wait
to
see
near
on
the
map
of
zones
in
the
inner
chain
and
see
all
the
interchange
liquidity
flowing
to
near
it's
gonna
be
sick,
I.
Think
your
question
is
about,
like
maybe
like
concentrated
liquidity.
Like
do
you
have
your
protocol
in
like
one
place
or
do
you
spread
it
out
like
as
much
you.
C
C
This
is
something
where
you
could.
You
know
near
has
a
incredible
High
market
cap.
What
if
you
could
stake
your
near
on
ear,
get
your
near
rewards
and
then
cross
stake
it
to
secure
a
lot
of
these
app
chains
on
the
inner
chain
and
earn
those
app
chain
tokens
on
top
of
your
near
staking
Rewards
mesh
security
is
something
that
I
would
be
really
happy
to
talk
with
anyone
in
the
near
realm
about,
because
I
think
it's
incredibly
awesome.
C
You
can
provide
a
high
level
of
Economic
Security,
and
yet
it's
built
in
such
a
way
that
it
doesn't
demand
you
use
the
cosmos,
SDK
and
so
yeah
I'm
really
really
excited
for
mesh
security,
replicated
security,
meh.
A
Like
whatever
heard
excellent
so
to
to
that,
I'll,
take
a
left
turn
and
ask
Sandy
about
this,
because
it's
a
completely
inappropriate
question
for
you.
We
just
want
to
ask
you
in
particular:
what's
what
is
it
called
CRS
CSR,
whatever
they
call
it?
Kento
has
become
popular
for
this
feature
near
already
was
giving
30
of
you
know,
spend
on
a
transaction
back
to
the
author
of
The,
the
contract.
E
I
mean
on
near
I
think
it's
pretty
great
that
we
have
30
percent
of
you
know
gas
fees
go
to
developers
because
incentivize
developers
to
build
good
contracts,
and
essentially
you
know
a
business
model-
is
baked
in
into
the
protocol
itself
so
like.
If
your
contract
is
very
used,
you
get
paid
instantly
for
calimer.
Obviously
we
are,
you
know
a
gas
free
network
so,
like
the
validators,
don't
have
a
token
it's
standard
like
proof
of
stake
or
proof
of
authority
network
depends
how
you
set
it
up.
E
It's
customizable,
but
the
token
is
just
for
consensus.
It's
not,
for
you
know
monetary
value,
in
my
opinion,
in
the
future
we're
going
to
see
more
and
more
networks
and
more
and
more
app
chains
who
are
not
secured
by
monitoring
incentive,
but
also
from
our
proof
of
community
incentive,
or
you
know,
legal
Frameworks
between
different
companies
in
Consortium
networks
or,
for
example,
Dallas,
like
you,
can
have
a
multi-stick
Dao
of
five
people.
E
Instead,
you
can
write
in
a
private
chart
of
five
people
having
the
same
voting
power,
and
then
you
can
have
Smart
contracts
between
them.
You
can,
you
know,
deployed
maybe
exchanges
between
them.
You
can
have
treasury
management,
private
voting
and
I
really
see
you
know,
that's
where
the
future
is
going
in
my
opinion
and
that's
why
we
kind
of
I
worked
it
near
I
joined
three
years
ago,
I
joined
as
an
infrastructure
engineer
and
now
we're
just
building.
You
know
infrastructure
more
for
standard
businesses
on
top
of
near.
So
that's
that's.
A
I
think
there
is
a
different
narrative
from
a
Capital
Management
perspective
than
most
other
ecosystems
and
chains
right,
so
Boris
at
Aurora.
There's
also
a
pretty
different
take
right,
like
Aurora
plus
when
I
first
saw
that
I
said:
oh
okay,
that's
great
I
can
onboard
people
more
easily
and
over
time,
I
started
to
understand
better
or
a
cloud,
and
these
other
you
know
offerings
in
these
other
engagements
they're
designed
to
meet
the
market
in
a
way
that
the
market
is
sort
of
more
ready
for
right.
A
D
Well,
how
I
see
it
if
we
can
create
all
this?
You
know
the
Aurora
plus
the
cloud.
All
these,
for
example,
to
bring
more
I
mean
my
my
how
I
see
it
is.
We
have
a
set
of
tools
that
are
said
to
bring
more
liquidity,
I
think
I
think
that
being
an
evm
compatible.
It's
we
create
a
good
environment
to
this
stop
change,
so
it
is,
is
you
know,
attractive
to
come?
There
are
other
things
like
you
know,
meta
transaction.
We
can
do
that
construction.
D
We
can
bring
the
game
the
The,
Gamers
I,
think
they're
we
can.
We
can
be
a
good
place
like
to
enter
to
the
near
ecosystem,
but
beyond
that
generic
receives
something
we
are
a
place
that
they
can.
You
know
have
all
that
we
need
to
bring
enough.
You
know
their
applications.
I
think,
there's
a
good
good
use
case
for
gaming.
A
lot
of
good
cases
for
D5,
so
I
think
it
may.
It
will
make
sense
to
to
come
a
place
that
they
can
get
and
you
can
also
Bridge
ethereum.
D
A
There
so
I
want
to
Pivot
to
our
youngest
panelists,
Ray
and
Ray
I
want
to
ask
you
about
this
because
of
your
experience
at
ref
and
what
you
might
see
in
the
future,
because
at
an
entity
like
osmosis,
there
is
much
less
management
required
when
someone
comes
up
and
wants
to
have
a
capital
engagement,
I'm,
not
saying
that
ref
is
permission,
I'm
saying
that
somebody
is
managing
contracts
somewhere,
there's
always
some
liability
right.
A
So
to
that
sense,
how
would
you
like
to
see
app
chains
connecting
up
with
nearer,
because
I
could
see
them
linking
with
IBC
immediately
and
looking
for
liquidity
on
ref?
That
is
a
different
engagement
than
they're
used
to
on
osmosis.
So
I'd
like
to
know
what
you
see
for
the
future
of
action
economics
on
near
yeah.
B
Now,
regarding
app
train,
specifically
I
can
kind
of
pull
into
two
aspects:
micro
and
macro.
When
it
comes
to
the
micro
perspective,
I
think
there
will
be
more
and
more
people
building
on
different
app
chains,
which
then
relates
to
the
fact
that
you
know
there
will
be
potential
tokens
which
will
then
connect
back
to
your
refinance
attacks,
which
allows
you
to
exchange
token
through
app
chains.
B
I
think
this
is
really
important
for
kind
of
what
rev
is
supposed
to
do
now
on
a
higher
level
on
a
macro
perspective,
I
think
app
training
is
extremely
critical,
important
for
Mass
adoption,
especially
when
it
comes
to
gaming
like
force
I
mentioned.
You
know,
you
want
users
web
to
users
to
seamlessly
use
web3
without
even
knowing
it
right.
I
think
this
can
be
really
wildly
done
by
you
know,
for
example,
gaming
on
app
chains,
for
example,
and
this
is
how
you
know,
Mass
abduction
will
come
in
for
blockchains.
A
Fairly
said:
well,
I,
don't
think
we
have
too
much
time
left,
but
I
don't
want
to
be
the
the
moderator
that
makes
you
guys
say
the
thing
that
we
want
to
say
so.
I
want
to
hear
from
you
all.
What
is
the
thing
that
you're
excited
about?
I
know
we
all
have
some
different
announcements
that
we're
looking
at
you
know
in
this
kind
of
bear.
Market
everybody
makes
their
announcements
around
East
Denver
right,
so
whatever
you're
looking
at
next,
if
we
could
go
down
the
line,
I
think
our
audience
would
love
to
know.
C
C
That
would
allow
dexes
like
yours
to
like
access
more
tokens
more
easily,
no
need
to
make
custom
Bridges
all
the
time
like
everything's
standardized.
Moreover,
it
opens
up
possibilities
for
protocols
like
mesh
security.
I
would
really
love
to
get
near
involved
with
mesh
security.
A
real
cross
ecosystem
proof
of
stake,
like
shared
security
model
I,
think,
could
be
really
powerful
for
decentralization,
but
also
great
for
for
token
holders,
especially
High
market
cap
chains.
A
B
So
for
ref
you
know
we
have
recently
launched
V2
so
kind
of
basically
it's
a
model
known
as
discretized
concentrated
liquidity.
Where
users
can,
you
know,
provide
constantial
liquidity
in
order
to
place
limit
orders.
So
the
goal
of
you
know
attacks-
or
you
know.
B
Ref
specifically-
is
to
kind
of
have
the
best
users
experience
modeling
of
like
a
centralized
exchange
right
following
what
happened
last
year,
we
can
see,
you
know,
there's
a
point
of
failure
with
centralization,
so
if
we
can
replicate
no,
not
even
100
or
80
to
90
of
what
see,
if
I
can
do,
then
I
think
we're
pretty
successful.
On
that
point,
I'll.
A
A
So,
just
to
you
know,
because
we're
not
going
to
talk
about
it,
I
had
to
put
a
little
ish
on
it,
but
we
can
keep
moving
Boris
I'd
love
to
know
what
you
find
interesting
at
Aurora,
because
I've
lost
track
of
some
of
the
offerings.
Y'all
have
there's
a
lot
coming
out.
Please
tell
us
what
to
look
for
next
at
Aurora.
Well,.
D
I'm
personally
excited
of
how
we
can
we
will
improve
user
experience
by
you
know
using
all
my
very
particular
investment
in
the
construction
part.
But
then
is
the
other
replies,
the
clouded
things.
I
think
this
will
be
allow
us
to
move
more
the
value
out
of
mere
speculation,
so
the
the
apps
per
se
will
be
able
to
generate.
You
know
more
value
to
investors
and
stuff
more
than
just
no
I,
like
the
fiber
I
think
we
should
move
money
a
little
more
Amplified
into
the
application
per
set.
The
games
and
very
into
the
gaming
part.
D
So
I'm
excited
about
that.
I
think
I'm
excited
to
see
how
we
can
get
developers
to
improve
user
experience
and
how
they
can
make
it
easier
for
users
to
just
to
do
Define
another
way
using
a
router
plus
and
how
other
you
know
more
on
the
business
side
can
use
other.
You
know
other
products
like
the
cloud
and
stuff
like
that,
but
I
think
in
general
I
think
we
can.
A
Fair
Sunday:
is
there
any
any
peas
you
want
to
tell
us
about,
or
anything
coming
from,
calimero
just
want
to
give
you
your
piece
to
tell
us
about
things.
Two.
E
Things
so
I
have
a
presentation
in
one
hour,
I
invite
everybody
to
join
and
learn
more
about
carimero
one
sneak
peek.
We
are
working
with
Aurora
guys
to
bring
evm
support
to
kalimero
as
well,
and
the
thing
which
I'm
excited
about
is
a
really
Enterprise
adoption
and
web.
Two
point
use
cases
coming
up
in
the
future,
because
my
belief
is,
if
you
don't
do
that,
you
know
blockchain
will
not
survive.
So
if
you
want
to
learn
more
presentation
in
one
hour
and
see
you
guys.