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From YouTube: 3/29/2021 - Assembly Committee on Ways and Means
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A
A
And
I
am
here:
please
mark
miss
benitez
thompson
excused
assemblywoman
titus,
please
mark
her
present
when
she
arrives.
She
is
testifying
in
another
hearing
and
please
mark
assemblywoman
tolls
absent
excused
she
might
be
able
to
get
in,
but
she
wasn't
sure.
So.
Thank
you
very
much
with
that
committee
members.
We
have
one
bill
before
us
today.
We
originally
had
a
bdr
to
be
introduced,
but
it
had
to
go
back
for
technical
reasons,
so
we
will
not
be
introducing
that
bdr
today.
A
A
It
didn't
actually
have
a
fiscal
note
attached,
but
there
were
concerns
because
the
wildlife
fire
fund
is
involved,
and
that
is
a
large
fund
and
they
do
come
to
the
general
fund
four
dollars.
So
we
wanted
to
make
sure
that
we
had
a
conversation
about
80
86
as
it
moves
through
the
process.
So
I
believe
we
have
miss
peters
this
morning.
That'll
be
walking
us
through
the
bill
and
we'll
have
our
conversation.
A
C
C
A
If
we
need
a
moment
to
get
them
linked
in
we,
we
can
take
a
a
brief
moment
because
we
do
have
some
other
members
who
are
getting
ready
to
pop
in.
So
if
you
need
to
get
them
the
zoom
length,
please
do
that.
That's
fine!
Okay,
the
first
time
we've
done
it
like
this,
so
it's
going
to
take
a
while
to
iron
out
the
wrinkles,
no
biggie.
C
A
All
right,
thank
you
very
much!
Apologies
to
those
who
might
be
watching
on
the
internet.
We
had
a
little
bit
of
technical
difficulties,
but
we
have
overcome
them
so
with
that,
and
also
if
I
could
please
have
the
committee
secretary
mark
assemblywoman
tightest
present,
she
has
arrived
good
morning,
assemblywoman
titus,
so
with
that
miss
peters.
If
you'd
like
to
go
ahead
and
proceed
and
introduce
your
presenters
and
we'll
go
from
there.
Thank
you
thank.
C
You
very
much
chair,
carlton
and
committee
on
ways
and
means.
I
appreciate
the
opportunity
today
to
present
ab-86
a
policy
bill
with
a
potential
fiscal
issue.
I
did
want
to
bring
the
committee's
attention.
I
apologize
sarah
peters
for
the
record,
the
committee's
attention
to
a
an
amendment,
a
consensual
amendment
that
was
submitted
to
nellis.
This
is
a
policy
amendment,
but
it
was
brought
up
as
a
concern
related
to
just
the
breadth
of
which
we
may
unintentionally
place
liability
on
people
who
we
historically
don't
put
liability
on
so
chair.
C
I
am
happy
to
go
over
that
amendment
as
well
in
committee
here
or
if
this
is
inappropriate
at
another
time.
A
Actually,
miss
peters,
let's
talk
about
the
fiscal
side
of
it
first,
and
so
that
we
understand
that,
since
that's
really
what
we'll
hear
about-
and
we
know
things
evolve
as
as
time
happens,
so
we'll
have
a
con
if
you,
if
you'd
like
to
just
walk
us
through
the
amendment
after
the
fiscal
part.
That
would
be
great.
A
I'm
assuming
this
will
be
an
amendment
that
you
will
be
presenting
on
the
floor
in
addition
to
the
bill
when
the
bill
gets
to
the
floor,
because
we
typically
don't
do
policy
amendments,
especially
this
early
in
the
session
on
bills.
Since
the
policy
committee
still
have
time
to
address
it,
we
will
do
them
at
the
very
end
of
session
simply
because
we're
trying
to
get
stuff
done,
but
I
would
assume
this
is
going
to
be
presented
on
the
floor.
A
C
A
C
You
so
sarah
peters
again
for
the
record.
I
have
with
me
today
to
help
present
the
financial
impacts
of
ab-86.
I
have
with
me
mr
taylor,
terry
taylor,
who
is
a
20.
I
have
his
bio
up
here.
C
C
28
euro
of
the
as
a
captain
of
the
fire
investigator
with
the
I
can't
remember
exactly
which
fire
agency
it
was,
and
I
also
have
mr
mike
brown,
who
was
with
the
fire
service
for
25
years,
and
I
think
I'm
going
to
pass
on
to
them
to
discuss
some
of
the
financial
impacts
of
ab-86.
C
I
guess
I
could
introduce
the
bill
first,
I'm
sorry,
terry,
do
you
mind
going
over
sorry,
mr
taylor,
do
you
mind
going
over
the
bill
first
and
then
going
into
the
discussion
of
the
potential
impact
to
the
wildfire
fund?
Please.
D
So
for
the
record,
my
name
is
terry
taylor,
and
this
bill
was
suggested
to
create
a
a
cost
recovery
by
local
government
and
to
allow
that
those
monies
to
be
repaid
to
the
wildfire
protection
program.
Funding
after
a
wildfire
is
has
occurred
and
the
various
sections,
the
I
guess
you
could
say
the
the
main
challenge
that
I
found
in
the
last
22
years
of
my
career
has
been
the
clauses
in
nrs,
472,
540
and
474
550,
which
requires
threatening
human
life
in
order
to
initiate
cost
recovery
and.
D
D
So
basically,
under
the
bill,
it
empowers
county
commissioners
to
bring
an
action
against
a
person,
a
firm
association
or
even
an
agency,
that's
responsible
for
willfully
or
negligently
causing
a
wildfire
and
to
recover
those
expenses
incurred,
and
it
also
allows
for
reasonable
attorneys
fees
by
by
a
public
or
private
attorney
that
might
be
hired
by
a
fire
district
or
a
municipality
or
a
county.
D
B
D
We
and
also
talking
with
some
other
representatives,
we've
discovered
that
there's
some
concern
about
in
the
rural
areas
about
things
like
warming,
fires
and
branding.
So
I
made
sure
that
that
we
put
something
in
there
as
a
proposed
amendment,
and
there
was
also
concerns
about
liability
for
people
who
are
basically
doing
something
that
is
approved
through
permit
and
then
something
happens,
an
unforeseen
event.
D
So
a
perfect
example
of
that
is
the
the
other
day
we
had
a
legal
burning
day
in
douglas
county,
but
because
of
temperature
differential
dust
devils
were
formed,
and
so
a
dust
devil
came
through
a
permanent
fire
and
actually
moved
it
down.
The
road
firefighters
responded,
put
it
out
very
quickly.
It
wasn't
a
big
deal,
but
it
could
have
been
because
of
the
wind
and
so
on
on
a
situation
like
that
there
would
be
no
liability
and
so
that's
kind
of
what
we're.
What
we're
trying
to
shoot.
For
my.
B
D
Know
from
year
to
year
what
our
fire
history
is
going
to
be,
and-
and
so
I
think,
it's
I
think,
it's
important
to
move
forward
on
ab-86,
so
that.
F
D
A
Question.
Thank
you,
gentlemen.
Very
much.
I
believe
you're
watching
us
on
youtube,
so
there's
going
to
be
about
a
20
to
30
second
delay
so
committee
members
with
any
questions,
keep
that
in
mind
they're
not
actually
in
the
link
they're
on
the
you
they're
they're,
watching
through
youtube.
So
it's
gonna
be
a
moment.
A
So
with
that
the
actual
is,
have
you
been
able
to
estimate
any
actual
impact
on
the
fire
fund.
B
D
The
what
I
have
done
is
I
have
researched
the
past
payouts.
I
picked
one
department,
esport
fire
protection
district
and
I
looked
at
the
last
seven
years
of
their
participation
in
the
fund
and
their
costs
have
consistently
risen
and
they
will
rise
again
this
fiscal
year
due
to
the
neighbors
fire
which
which
occurred
last
june.
D
D
Purpose
of
this
bill
is
to
be
able
to,
in
an
appropriate
circumstances,
to
be
able
to
bring
money
back
to
the
fund,
which
would
keep
the
cost
to
well
really
to
the
state,
because
if
the
fund
goes
dry,
the
general
fund
has
to
pick
up
the
difference
and
to
make
the
fund
basically
over
time
self-supporting.
D
A
E
Yes,
thank
you,
madam
chair,
for
for
allowing
a
question.
I
I
just
need
some
clarification.
Maybe
then,
when
peters
can
answer
this
or
even
perhaps
legal,
I'm
just
wondering
about
the
ability
to
for
the
monies
in
the
suit,
so
they
could
be.
Can
you
be
sued
by
the
county
commissioners
and
then
you
could
be
sued
by
a
city
and
then
maybe
some
other
the
fire
district.
E
B
D
The
fire
started
establishes
the
jurisdiction,
and
so,
if
we
have
a
fire
in,
let's
say
the
esport
fire
protection
district
in
douglas
county,
the
lawsuit
for
the
for
all
parties
involved
would
be
in
the
ninth
judicial
district.
D
We're
really
talking
about
now
is
only
public
entities
and
we're
talking
only
about
you
know
using
district
attorneys
or
city
attorneys
to
do
this
sort
of
litigation
and
as
as
I've
done
in
my
discussions
with
the
wildfire
committee
as
well
as
others,
I've
done
this,
both
in
a
public
sector
setting
in
a
private
sector
setting
as
an
investigator
and
participated
in
teams
of
people
and
what
we.
What
we
do
is
typically
there's
a
lead
plaintiff.
D
These
these
lawsuits
are
settled
and,
and
then
at
that
point
the
fund,
which
has
paid
out
expenses,
gets
a
percentage.
So
as
an
example,
if
the
fund
paid
25
of
the
fire
costs
for
esports
neighbors
fire
last
year
and
east
fork
was
in
fact
able
to
sue
the
responsible
party,
we
know
what
started
it.
We
just
don't
know
who
in
that
case,
is
six
billion
dollar
plus
fire.
B
A
Thank
you,
dr
titus
committee
members.
Are
there
any
other
particular
questions
at
this
time.
A
I
don't
believe
I'm
hearing
any
other
folks
wishing
to
be
recognized
at
the
moment.
So
thank
you,
gentlemen.
Very
much.
G
A
Clarifying
this,
we
just
wanted
to
understand
what
the
possible
impacts
might
be.
I'd
like
to
clarify
something
when
you
say
agency
that
could
possibly
be
a
state
agency
correct,
so
a
county
could
actually
sue
a
state
agency.
B
D
Yes,
it
could
be
a
state
agency,
it
could
also
be
a
local
agency.
We
have
had
circumstances
in
the
past
where
agencies
are
using
prescribed
fire
and
prescribed
fire
escapes.
Due
to
you
know,
actions
of
weather
some
anticipated
some
might
anticipate,
I'm
sure
we're
all
familiar
with
a
recent
event
in
the
last
couple
of
years.
D
B
D
B
H
Better,
so
it
answered
the
question
again:
mike
brown,
retired
fire
chief
represented
the
state
fire
chiefs
association
today,
and
thank
you
for
having
us
here
the
responsibility
we
were
looking
at
a
state
agency
that
actually
did
show
there
was
some
type
of
negligence.
Yes,
but
I
believe
that
we
would
be
working
together
to
ensure
that
we
were
doing
everything
to
protect
that
state
agency,
because
we're
partners,
we
do
a
lot
of
partnership
programs,
so
they're
working
within
the
jurisdiction
of
the
local
say
a
fire
district.
H
B
H
In
the
means
of
how
it
would
suppress
that
fire,
so
you
know
there's
a
lot
of
discussions
that
take
place
prior
to
any
type
of
I
gotta
say,
prescribed
fire
that
would
be
utilized
between
the
agencies,
whether
it
be
federal,
state
or
local
jurisdiction.
So.
B
E
H
Those
types
of
situations
without
having
to
get
to
that
point
where
we
would
have
to
be
looking
at
bringing
some
type
of
lawsuit
against
one
of
our
state
agencies.
I
hope
that
answered
the
question.
A
Yes,
thank
you,
it
does
miss
gorlow.
Did
you
have
a
question.
I
Yes,
thank
you,
chair,
carlton
and
I'll.
Try
not
to
get
too
much
into
the
policy.
It
ends
up
my
husband's
a
meteorologist
and
he
does
fire
weather.
So
he
goes
out
on
some
of
these
fires
to
help
support
the
firefighters,
and
so
I
know
he
gets
paid
by
the
federal
government.
So
I'm
kind
of
curious.
How
does
the
federal
government
budget
come
in
to
assist
state
budgets
and
when
does
that
happen?
If
you
could
explain
that
a
little
bit
more.
H
So
I'm
mike
brown
again,
that's
a
great
question
so
participating
on
those
team
assignments
and
getting
paid
to
the
federal
government
actually.
B
B
H
After
that,
following
it,
if
they
do
any
type
of
investigation,
work
or
fly
negligence,
that
agency
will
actually
go
after
the
party
that
could
be
held
negligent.
So
the
federal
government
works
out
and
it's
very
similar
to
local
jurisdiction.
The
fire
agencies
all
have
annual
operating
plans
with
our
federal
partners
that
allow
personnel
to
participate
on
these
team
assignments
and
different
capacities,
your
husband
being
a
weather
person.
H
F
Thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
just
to
get
some
clarification
from
assemblywoman
titus's
question.
I
mean
this
bill
authorizes
cities
counties
in
this
in
the
state
to
initiate
civil
action.
F
D
B
D
D
D
E
D
Pool
of
money
that
envy
energy
put
in
and
it
the
various
companies
shared
on
a
basis
of
percentage
of
loss,
and
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
with
the
number
of
fires
and,
of
course
we're
also
talking
about
accidental
fires.
You
know.
B
D
Lightning
strikes:
wait
who
do
you
sue
so.
B
D
It's
it's
the
type
of
thing,
this
sort
of
litigation
is
not
constant,
especially
in
the
larger
fires.
H
D
Fires
part
of
this
bill
was
to
to
be
able
to
have
local
government
be
flexible
on
smaller
fires,
where.
B
D
Don't
even
get
any
wildfire
protection
money
or
an
fmeg,
and
so
I
that's
that's
part
of
the
thing
also
is
to
give
local
government
more
flexibility
to
do
cost
recovery
locally
and,
and
so
we're
just
sort
of
clarified
that
authority
in
the
statutes.
F
It
just
quick
follow,
so
your
your
agreements
with
between
the
jurisdictions
could
cover
the
cost
sharing
already.
D
E
B
B
D
H
D
G
So
is
there,
is
there
not
any
action
or
lawn
in
in
place
already
for
negligence
in
these
type
of
situations
like
in
the
form
of
a
fine
or
some
other
legal
action,
and
if
there
is,
would
this
would
this
be
above
and
beyond
those
fines
or
those
fines
go
away?
B
D
So
for
the
record,
terry
taylor,
so
typically
so
far
in
state
law,
the
criminal
aspect
of
this
is
usually
a
misdemeanor
which,
by
statute,
the
fine
is
a
thousand
dollars,
and
so
that
was
hilariously
that
was
discussed
in
the
first
colin
ranch
fire
nine
years
ago.
Do
we
cite
the
corporation?
D
So
the
tac,
when
I've
talked
with
district
attorneys
in
the
state,
their
their
attitude
has
been
that
the
criminal
law
since
isn't
really
appropriate
for
things
like
this,
and
that
the
civil
remedy
makes
more
sense
to
try
and
for
lack
of
a
better
word
make
make
their
community
whole
again
after
a
fire.
D
Does
that
answer
your
question?
Assemblyman.
G
Yes,
it
does.
Thank
you
very
much,
oh,
except
for
with
so
the
I
mean.
I
know.
The
thousand
dollars
is
not
really
a
huge
amount
of
money,
but
would
those
fines
now
not
be
assessed
if,
if
a
civil
case
was
brought
forth
and
and
and
costs
were
remediated
in
that
fashion,
or
would
it
or
would
they
still
have
to
pay
the
thousand
bucks.
B
G
D
Record
terry
taylor,
so
so
you
could
do
both.
You
could
in
fact
go
ahead
and
move
forward
on
a
misdemeanor
criminal
case.
If
you
could
prove
it
beyond
a
reasonable
doubt
which
you
in.
D
Negligence,
which
is
the
standard
and
willfulness,
and
that,
if
you
show
those
two
things
you
would
be
able
to
go
in
criminal
court,
which
sometimes
that
can
help
you
in
civil
court.
If.
D
Has
already
the
defendant,
who
would
be
also
a
civil
defendant,
has
already
been
found
guilty
of
a
criminal
offense.
They
have
to
overcome
that
guilt
in
a
civil
sense,
so
that
so
you
could
in
fact
have
both
things
occur
after
a
wildfire
and
an
investigation
is
conducted
and
you
identify
a
defendant
who
was
willful
and
negligent.
A
B
A
A
But
we
don't
want
to
dig
too
deep
into
the
policy,
because
the
policy
committee
has
already
done
their
job
and
we
want
to
respect
the
work
that
they've
done
so,
but
I
I
do
understand,
having
questions
to
make
sure
we
understand
how
all
the
pieces
of
the
puzzle
fit
together.
So
committee
members,
are
there
any
other
questions
at
this
time?.
A
I
don't
believe
we
have
any
other
questions
at
this
time
so
with
that.
Thank
you,
gentlemen,
very
much
for
being
here
today
to
walk
us
through
the
possible
fiscal
impacts
of
this
bill.
We
do
appreciate
it.
Miss
peters.
Did
you
have
any
closing
comments
to
make?
We
won't
be
discussing
the
amendment,
it's
a
policy
amendment
that
you
will
be
working
with
the
I
assume,
the
chair
of
the
committee
and
the
committee
members
and
other
members.
So
if
anyone
does
have
questions
of
miss
peters
on
the
amendment,
they
should
go
directly
to
her.
A
C
Thank
you
chair.
I
sarah
peters,
for
the
record.
I
just
wanted
to
thank
terry,
mr
taylor
and
mr
brown
for
being
able
to
attend
the
meeting
this
morning
to
discuss
these
issues
and
for
their
advocacy
on
the
recovery
of
these
costs
to
the
state
and
local
governments,
and
thank
you
committee
for
hearing
it.
A
A
Okay,
so
with
that,
thank
you
guys
very
much.
I
I
apologize.
I
had
a
glitch
so
with
that.
Well,
since
this
is
a
actual
bill
hearing
we'll
go
ahead
and
go
through
the
support,
opposition
and
neutral,
please
those
anyone
making
comments.
Please
do
keep
them
to
the
two
minutes
so
broadcast
services.
B
A
A
Thank
you
very
much
so
with
that.
I
believe
we
can
go
ahead
and
close
the
hearing
on
assembly
bill
86
thank
everyone
who
participated
very
much
and
committee
members.
You
just
now
had
your
practice
on
your
your
first
bill
moving
through
this
session.
So
I
want
to
thank
everyone
who
was
available
this
morning
so
we'll
go
ahead.
We've
closed
the
hearing
on
assembly
bill
86.