Node.js Internationalization Working Group, 10 Apr 2020

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From YouTube: Node.js Internationalization (i18n) Working Group

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Meeting Issue: https://github.com/nodejs/i18n/issues/282

A

And there we go all right well, I, all right! Kick it off.

B

Yeah so I don't know, do we need to meet with everyone or we can start go? Oh.

A

B

Do that, let's do that? Okay, so I'm Alex I am trying to have help with localization process for and I ATM initiative, and we I'm handling crowdin integration and trying to help with guides for new translators and yeah. That's me so man, that's.

A

Awesome yeah, my name is Ben Mitchell and I have helped sort of Reber this internationalization working group in the last couple years and so facilitating this working group through the node.js community committee and yeah really excited about the progress that's happening now, which is doing great words. It's doing great work, other people working on the integration stuff and we're excited to kick it up a notch with the localization and making resources available for people to start translating well and know what to do so, really grateful to be here and yeah. That's it Jose!

A

B

If I'm not wrong, her says Satan previous time that he would like to KITT.

A

No problem thanks, Jose, okay Jose, he says he's.

B

A

And we know he's really excited about.

B

Yeah so start that help us with translation to Spanish and he did a lot. So thank you for contribution and yeah. So let's go through agenda, so I think we start go through agenda and then, if, when you have some questions or say you have some questions, I can I will try transfer, but let's go let's go by plan. So first stuff is completely integration with chromium. Yesterday, I I attend to website redesign meeting to like force guys to give us permissions to not not to us to Croton.

B

Now GS github account that we are using to integrate with Crowden and we finally get this axis but seems like seek visit now and he haven't chance to integrate with rhodium. So we have enough permissions, but we are waiting for extra integration like yeah from Z, because as much as I know, just the Zeke has access to this account. Probably man you also have but I I'm, not sure, okay, yeah.

A

I think I have access to this account. Probably so, if Zeke doesn't yeah Zeke doesn't do that. You know by sometime early next week and okay.

B

If, if you need some III can like post instructions how to do this, if Zeke wouldn't respond to us.

B

So it's like, we almost done with this and I hope we will done and then our after we finally integrate I'm going to implement the crowd, alien configuration to for this project and push it to the repo yep and finally integrate everything. So we'll be prepared. Beautiful, that's awesome, and this is for.

A

No js' dave yeah yeah, it's for.

B

Magette, the death or no GS, dot Arc and for API Docs is already integrated and it already wor works for everyone. Translators can start like that's beautiful, yeah.

A

So I mean really on that point. Next steps like we talked about a few weeks ago, the last couple times that I joined you know we're getting those resources available like glossary Xand like contributing guides for the translators themselves, and that's where I think you know on that on that step, just to kind of pad what we're talking about with how we can feel that you know I, think naming or getting people excited to be. You know champions for these localization teams, where people who are already will identifying those people helping them.

A

You know kick giving them resources to kick this off with translators and editors and stuff like that.

B

Yeah about guidelines and about this stuff, I I also prepared some, my version of guidelines and I'm like waiting for review. But it's like next steps is that is that in the agenda here, yeah it's an agenda. So let's discuss it in the next.

B

So next one is we so I, don't remember who actually initiated this step, but we have some start using some script get github actions script to sink. Our dogs is related just to ITM repo, to sink docks from maine ripple node and to our repo to get as a fresh content of the documentation and.

A

That's what yes.

B

So, for now how it works, it's like we have predefined list of versions in our package JSON as at pulling from repo and like generate all content under repo and uncommitted, but I saw a few issues like I just researched a bit here, and they have some issue related. Why why, just weekend, like fetch fresh versions its instead of predefined it- and here a few opinions how we can do this first was I, don't remember what is NPM releases and github releases and we have some stale at pull requests ice. I.

B

Think let me just find word austin to give a bit more context and explain so I say it's really: ok, first one and second one. So, okay, here's an initiative from.

B

Which is also great, but it's like one script, one-line script for NPM scripts, and it's not very useful because it's fetching it's not working on Windows. Its first point. Second point is it's like a generate just JSON file, but not make awkward and like all actions that we need? Oh then Myles pointed us is a better to use change lock instead of github releases, the ant is like blocked, not not blocked. It's like okay. We can't use change log because miles stopped respond to us and that's why it's like a stable, okay.

B

Then then another another issue from Nick. It's like proposal to use NPM releases I, try to investigate in it and understand how it works, but I've I actually can't understand how we can get this NPM releases because no GS is not released, not hosted on NPM I, don't know how it how it should work so I just get all this data that I know all this knowledge and compared everything to my pull request that actually.

B

Get fresh versions from original repo by github releases and then its fetch based on this fresh versions. It fetch fresh content and then push it with our collect script that we already have. So that's, basically it nothing special and it's one more thing that you probably don't know. We are added github action that made nightly sync of the content and in general it should be really great. If we for now it works yesterday we are figured out. What is it if she was and we fixed it, so it works, but I figure it out.

B

We know GOG has released a few new versions for certain version and for tens version and but we still haven't any commits and we still had like everything up to date. You said, and but it's not and ie like a bit confused and then I discovered that we are not pulling fresh versions and that's why I implemented this script. So it's waiting for review, but I tested it on my local machine and it works. Well. So wait for review from others. It's read yeah. It should work for us. Then.

B

After this, we are going to be much time going to close this issue and previous requests, and this problem should be solved, like sync content with main repo beautiful type. Thank you for all your work. That's awesome, yeah, so yeah so probably been. If you have a time today, you can just review this pull request and it will be awesome, yeah. First, what? If, if you bizzy's? Okay, usually.

A

Usually these things are like I feel like this type of this type of pol require is mostly best reviewed by two people or so like I have my perspective, but also you know, Zeke has his perspective and like he, he does this all day long. You know so for him. I feel like it would be helpful to both have my review and his review just so that he can verify this against, like you know, best practices or whatever, oh.

B

Of course, of course, of course, is better to use two heads instead of one.

A

Yeah I just I know this like the Zeke's. Really, you know really don't want to brown stuff, and so he may. He may have some pertinent thoughts or something but yeah, although if I give it a review today and I'm excited to check it out. Okay,.

B

Great so and another thing is guidelines, I created an issue so as I say it's something yeah yep. Thank you. Thank you. That's that thank you for your thank you. I created like if you guidelines needed, because we are almost already set up. We are almost on the final steps with building our translation process, so we need to start writing red lines. Yeah, so I created this issue, but I actually didn't expect any activity on this. So I started. My might my own writing stuff. I'm, not English native speaker.

B

I can't like be a best from grammar position, but I tried to be as best as possible. So here is prepared. Pr with the list of guidelines, I I wrote and I asked everyone to review this. Here's two points, first is: does it clear to understand everything and second thing is I- need totally some English native speaker proofreading, because I I'm not sure in my skills, so I asked I, asked everyone I asked I, don't know I almost everyone to do this.

B

So probably it's a great place where you can help a lot, because III also started had some questions from translators like how it should work or how it should work and I already know this answers and I already described everything in these guides, but it's not merge two yet so I like sending him.

B

Please check this PR where you can find transfers.

A

Yeah I think I think there's a lot of people waiting for for a guide. So the more heads like like we said on the last guarantee the more heads the better I'm excited to look at. This looks like Zeke and then Steven already took a look and we'll lay in this, and you know that's the thing it's like you're gonna have perspective that native English speakers. Don't have because you're going to be looking at it from potential. You know audience where, like some things may make sense or don't make sense.

A

So it's good that yeah from multiple backgrounds we can make this contributing guide as diverse as possible. So that's good yeah.

B

I hope so yeah, so, let's review it I hope you find some time for that, because it's it's really like super mediate for us. Yes, I brought up another stuff yeah, it's also my pure. It's related to refactoring current repo I I. Actually, don't remember what is happening here. Let me check okay, so I removed a few old files like called minutes folder, and it's contained some.

B

If, as if I understood correctly, it was something like Google Docs that very using now it's like minutes, but it was in 2018 and I'm, not sure that we are going to use it now, so I just removed it and also I removed the status script because it's not used for us at all. It wasn't used ever and also you like the reason why this script was implemented. He is like to get translation process from the Croydon project, but for now we have this batch. So it's totally enough to to know everything that we need.

B

So this escapes like is duplicated, so I just removed it, and it's also waiting for you. There is nothing, not know any breaking changes, because it's it never used some somewhere, so I think it's ok to merge. Yeah I think.

A

Maybe, regarding the old minutes and stuff with I, don't actually look closely enough were those just those were links to old minutes or they were actually posted, markdown files for the for the are like old minutes where they markdown files there were they Google, Docs, okay, oh gosh, gotcha, okay, so these are like old ones and we're using Google got it. Okay, yeah I, don't know man I, think with that kind of stuff, like just for history, say a history.

A

Keeping history like it's, almost it's almost good to you, I mean I can do some admin I can't like pull this down. Do some admin or something but I, think like it's almost good to keep any old minutes or anything that we have from like past meetings like in an archive folder or you know something where, like we have history, but I mean the history is in here in plus with, but you know like it's worth this: isn't it it's good? So we're good!

A

You know like I, don't know, maybe we don't need it since we're doing and like over this, but usually like old minutes or old archive meeting stuff I tend to keep to stick like an hour. You know archive folder, but it's probably not that big of a deal but.

B

It's not okay, I I agree. It's it's really, it's okay to keep for a history, but here's just a sweet minutes and it's I, don't know it seems yeah.

A

Seems we're done and it's like we're already doing this in Google Docs, you know- and this would be like ok, probably gonna keep you know. Why are we gonna keep that around forever, just those three meetings or whatever that's fine, yeah, yeah I'll, look at this today and I, don't think we're living it as a problem. Okay,.

B

Okay, thank you. Yes, all this factor yep another one is this issue again. We haven't got people on the call, but here's like I just can explain. So this is issue about aging tests to this ripple and the main points about what we can test is. First one we can test a translated content and, second one is: we can link the content, not not just translated and I figured out that we don't need this more because I write this point here, but I can like save this.

B

So validation of some set of contents that we are getting from crowding is not required because crowding until handling this for us automatically, so we don't need at all at all. Second thing: is it's really serious issues that crowd in keep the files set already deleted from original source? And this is she already solved? Nick created this PR and it's already merged, so it's like also solved and certain one is to link our content. I'm personally think original source is linking in the original repo.

B

So we don't need to over link I, don't know what is a specific word linked one more time. It's not required for us and also linking content. That's translated and going from crowd in it's also not required because, as I said, crowd, I'm handling everything for us. So, from my point of view, we don't need I I want to close this issue, because here is now any available points. Yeah.

A

I think I think maybe the case you know just depending on, depending on what we lint right, like the case could be made that this is a last stop or a fail-safe for any like reserved words that have been you know like poorly translated or I mean like that. Like say somebody wrote a reserved word with an extra character or something you know.

B

A

Simple tests to make sure that anything that has to do it like this. This is like last stop security. Failsafe like this is the end of the line. We just want to make sure that, like seriously, nothing is going in the people are going to try to use that won't work. You know that's like broken or something so, but grounding should handle it.

A

I cried and should handle that for sure I mean yeah, yeah I, don't know, I think I think I'll just probably add my two cents there, and then you know see what other people say and yeah.

B

Yeah I also just ask him like what any objections about closing this issue. Of course, if, if someone has some point, I I'm ready to listen, I am ready to implement.

A

B

A

B

Open question to discuss so yeah: let's.

A

Think about it.

B

Another stuff is related to NPM model, so I when I get mine, maintain their access to this repo I started like cleaning up all the issues or requests, and so I I discovered that we have a lot of issues and pull requests. Thats related to NPM model, that's which actually never reached out so I decided to like collect everything under one issue and make final decision.

B

Do we need this NPM model or not, because I had a few conversation with Zeke and this other mates- and we haven't like strong opinion about that, because, as I described here for NPM model was useful when we haven't any idea how we.

B

How we deliver the content to our end projects- and this was an open question and can be a model, was a great solution, but for now, when we are now what API Docs is getting directly from this from this repo, no GS dot def is can get this Docs using Gatsby plugin. So they are also don't need any NPM model, and we just need to figure it out how we can deliver this content for no GS website. Not yet at all.

B

My position is: we need to create an PM model when we need to reuse something and not to like deliver something. If we want to deliver something from point A to point B, we can just make this by some simple script: e yeah.

B

So that's my point of view and I try to open some discussion and Zeke pointed me like okay, we don't want to publish it to NPM and just just want to keep it with module structure, but in github repo and everyone who wants can install it by NPM bought directly from github and I said. Okay. Why not? So it's like still open discussion because nobody, except me and Zeke, say it's their.

A

Opinion but yeah yeah, I, think I think, like here's, the only opinion I have on that alpha top of my head. Without reading this, you know fully in earnest. I think my opinion is like yeah. That sounds. That sounds great, as the project is evolving right now to to the just serve the targets that it has currently, but I think also that there's a value in publishing an NPM module that makes it easy for people to like.

A

We also need to think of you know, internationalized or localized documentation outside of the niveau de cosas, like nodejs the project itself like if we publish the localize documentation or whatever target one of the targets we have to an NPM module, then anybody else could import. That you know like NPM is like the de-facto way for people to import and export stuff across the JavaScript ecosystem and if yeah.

B

A

Project wants to get localized like nodejs documentation in their own project. You know like whatever person or company or someone building an app or whatever, like that's, not just for j4, for node I, think that would make the I think that would make it simple for them.

A

You know so I think the fact just the one of the use cases for publishing something that mbm module is making it easy for the community to leverage if they want to or need to, but for my, but my opinion is just like that is a thing, but for now just getting this out the door and out the gate. You know for NPR for node resources. This is totally fine. You know, okay yeah, that makes sense yeah.

B

So it's like still open discussion. So if you have some opinion, please write so I understand your point and yeah, it's make sense. Yeah. Another thing is like I created just a few hours before this meeting. It's like I I, like get an idea that we need to protect the translated content from a manual updates, so for no GS dark community, like already using a PR system to translate a node.js website and I like created, I'm, not sure that it's already merged to bear to say repo.

B

It should be some not only at me about this. Let me just check.

B

Doesn't he look at this okay yeah? So it's like last last line, but it's it's wetter than nothing so I like created a note and they also updated translation guide for everyone and I said you don't need to use pull request system. You need to use crowding for everything. I think posted this like mark to everyone who, before I helped with translation but now also want to help and like to be to not be confused. We like making out when we switched to crowd in to not confuse everyone and yeah.

A

B

I created this notes, but I believe we will face with some some like developers who want to merge their their translation through pull, request and set of crowd, and we need to protect in some way and I. I have an idea that we can do this by github actions like to do this automatically, instead of like. We should manually, check all peer system and- and it probably not comfortable for everyone- to reject poorly requests for some contributor who just started and say: hey man, sorry, we can't yeah.

A

I mean I, think I think this touches on being a part of the governance of our particular working group, so yeah. This would have to become like a new point of governance for our group, where we just say in our governance guide, we say, like you know, and and mentioned this in the contributing guide as well, but any any localization of anything like it has to happen through crowd in you know.

A

I'm just pointed to their appointment for that, and so like anybody, any developer, who is looking to translate something and goes to the contributing guide, will already see that and then just be pointed there anyway. So if we, if we make it a part of our working groups, governance and we're, you know pretty clear about that and are contributing guides and whatever I feel like that, should really minimize the risk. For that, however, I don't see, you know, my opinion is I, you know, I, don't see any problem with.

A

You know automating, like closing any closing any issues or any PRS that have translations in this particular book.

A

You know closing the.

B

Another thing is, we need to add these actions to all our projects that we are translating, so we like to think for a universal solutions that we can implement everywhere and I think if perfection is like best yeah yeah, so it's like just an idea. Probably other developers have another ways how we can do this.

B

My idea is perfections and also I'm not very experienced with github actions. So I can research, someone from a point of unique he's more experienced than me which give affection so probably hey. We can help. So, let's use what.

A

B

A

Like you know the other you and I both on the top level, it simplifies things greatly because it keeps it all like within the same namespace or like everything is in github. So you know like I, don't but yeah I getting other opinions would be great, sounds good. Yeah.

B

Yeah, so it's like this one and yeah and the last one is about structure of localization team. It's like old issue, with strange name with strange title here. We are talking about structure of teams. So here is my proposed structure that I'm almost almost done. We just faced with a few blockers. We have. We already have a team called no GS, / localization, and it's it's not semantics correctly and that's why I want to rename it to translators, but we need firstly to make some drastic moment to ask Benjamin to like do.

B

Okay with it and after his approval, we can do this so I already created this structure and I I. Don't know why I did this to agenda or probably, if you have some, if you have some weight, how we can force Benjamin I.

A

Can't force anybody to do anything there, yeah I know but I hear you. You know you just mean, like kind of try, to bring this to attention of his attention to push it along yeah, yeah, I. Think.

A

Contact with people so like this is a way to keep and keep in contact with all of the localization yeah.

B

So I think it's like structure, so we are I described it in in my guides. Why? We need this? No I'm, not this right, I just give a use cases how we can use these teams mentions so no GS Croton managers, it's like for everyone. If for some technical stuff, this each of this team is good mentioned for for adding some language for specific project of no GS, and if you want to add some Serbian line, which you can like pink this team and they will add for you yeah.

B

No Jess translators is like group of all l10n groups to like mention everyone at once, because I I can predict that we are going to mention all localization teams that we are. We have to update their vehicles.

A

B

Why I want to have mention like this yeah.

A

Perfect, no, this is perfect. This is gonna help us. This is going to help us create and continue to update the you know, the pool of people who are like championing the different localization teams and and then how they're involved with crowd in and that kind of stuff. So this is really great thanks for bringing this bringing this to a head, and hopefully I, can add some context or you know like share opinions and get talked more with Benjamin and people like that here soon. Okay,.

B

A

That's great thanks: man, yeah.

B

So was it's 8.

A

Right, yeah I mean you have it. That was great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So much Alexander for just all your all your work and corralling all this together and making progress happen like it's beautiful. So thank you for that. Yeah I think the only other things on the localization and internationalization stuff I mean there's a lot of there's a lot of we're just at it.

A

We're at this stage where, like you, have been pushing forward these fundamental things that need to happen before before we get like open the floodgates for translators to come in and that sort of thing, and then you know so like if we can get these guides done, and this you know if the if the collection, script and stuff is all in place and then things are, you know, update updated by version and that kind of stuff than anyone should be. We should be golden to be translating or all of the different targets and then yeah.

A

This is awesome, so I think you know something I can you know what I hope to do is to add context or comments and opinions and and any sort of progression needs to happen in the PRS that we already talked about and then on top of that some of the action items that we took from a like a month back or so you know just that- are more revolving around organizing and getting people and identifying the people that are going to be a part of the translation team.

A

You know crowd in team and getting getting those people listed so that we can start keeping in touch and getting people funneled it through the Contra, the contributing guide in the localization guidelines and stuff into you know doing translations so I think as soon as we can sort of create this, like you know, we have. The the technical mechanism is really on its way. That's awesome and then you and then beyond that the contributing mechanism is like what has to be just solid so that yeah, so that we can.

A

We can start to get the translations in and I think yeah. It's exciting: this is really exciting, we're in a good place. What I think.

B

Is like, after we are done with all technical stuff, I I, also I plan to write a few articles, probably to medium about that too, in white. Okay. So from my side, I can invite a lot of Russian translators and Ukrainian translators, because I would like to write a few articles for a premium blogs and for Russian awesome. Yeah. Also I would like to write some post to medium and probably will have some potential translators, but also I found some interesting comment from I.

B

Don't know what is the name yeah she is said like he ready to help. Is she ready to help with.

B

Polarization for with promoting our our like stuff and to invite a lot of translators so probably after we are done, I think it will be if, if everyone goes well and I will be the same activist as now and everyone review my activity I think we've all done. You know two weeks and who will like ready for invite a ton of translators, totally yeah, so I hope and probably can pink ZB to help.

A

You yeah yeah, definitely and who's the other person there's a few people, but I think what this is, where the noj's community committee kind of comes into play. So when we're ready to socialize and do like sort of a mark like a marketing push, if you will for a trend for translators, we can definitely just all be involved in it. Tyranny will be involved in it, who's the you know doing community committee stuff and.

B

A

Who does social for nodejs and for Linux Foundation and that kind of stuff? We can get that information out there and then I mean that would be an extent amazing moment. So, looking forward to that and then yeah, if, if you need to I, think sybbie can't remember his if he is still the right person to do I think she is just to do like publish something on like nodejs collections and things like that. There are, you know like say you write a medium article and you want that published via nodejs collection.

A

I think we still do new J's collection, I can migrate. I need to get up-to-date with the community new stuff there anyways, but anyways. If there's a funnel for you to have an official, you know blog published a through an ojs publication, then like there's, that's definitely a you know. If it's if it's about internationalization, then yeah, if you're going to write one in English, just let me know and I'd love to help you with editing so that it you know it. Okay, thanks.

B

You know that kind of stuff and then.

A

We could just we can get that out there. You know for people through nodejs, medium.

B

A

That should be good, really excited for that and, like I think I mean even if it's like about that in Russian or whatever I, don't think, there's a mean I think they're willing to post in any language. So yeah.

B

It's true, but I have a few resources that, like a lot of a lot of readers, I think is so readers of no genius block is, let's not expect to have some Russian, so it's better to post some, some Russian blog. So it's it marks amazing. So.

A

Yeah awesome well that sounds good. Well, anyways yeah! Let's just keep in touch on that and when we get to the those moments where we're writing and publishing blogs about it, we'll just help each other out with that and I'll be great.

B

Yeah yeah sounds great, thank you, yeah, so yeah and also I like checked our activity. It's really start growing up on all our projects like for Docs and for nodejs website and they hope I, don't know what is the reason why I started growing? That's really great. Yes,.

A

B

B

A

Well, yeah I know this is really great man. Thank you for all your work and for just pushing things forward and yeah I'm just excited to do this, along with you and yeah I'll, be able to take a lot of this and update the community committee about our progress, and you know start talking about hey. You know we're getting ready for we're almost ready for like a marketing push for you know, getting translators and help and that kind of stuff and then they'll, just we'll go from there and yeah things are getting really exciting.

A

Then thank you. Thank you very much one on this. With with you over the next couple weeks, yeah.

B

Yeah, thank you so yeah. It seems like this. This meeting is done so yeah. Thank you for your time. Thank you for joining yeah. See you next week. Alright.

A

Alright see ya next week, bye, bye, Jose, yeah.

B