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A
B
All
right,
let's
rise
for
the
Pledge
of
Allegiance.
B
All
right
welcome
our
corporate
Corporation
departments
to
our
budget
hearings.
This
is
our
last
day,
so
we're
very
interested
to
hear
what
you
have
to
say.
We've
had
a
couple
of
things:
percolate
up
from
the
other
groups
that
I
have
questions
about,
so
we're
real
interested
in
hearing
your
presentation
and
then
we'll
have
questions
afterwards.
B
D
C
Phillips
Corporation
Council
Aaron
Thomas,
Deputy,
Corporation,
Council,
Diana
mcgroom,
director
of
risk
management.
So
it's
our
pleasure
to
be
with
you
today.
C
We
want
to
kind
of
provide
an
overview
of
what
we
were
able
to
focus
on
last
year.
Some
of
the
things
we
intend
to
focus
on
going
into
the
new
fiscal
year,
but
wanted
to
start
by
talking
generally
about
what
we
do
as
a
risk
management,
core,
Council
and
and
the
importance
of
it.
You
know
we
we're
here
today
to
talk
about
the
financial
resources
that
will
be
allocated
to
us
for
the
next
fiscal
year.
But
you
know
one
of
the
things
that
we
sometimes
Court,
Council
or
risk
management.
C
Don't
get
to
talk
about
is
is
the
money
that
we're
able
to
save
the
county,
based
on
the
advice
and
counsel
that
we
provide.
Interestingly,
that's
not
necessarily
something
that
is
tracked
and
I
do
understand.
It
might
be
something
that's
difficult
to
quantify,
but
it's
something
that
that
we
take
stock
of
every
day
in
terms
of
the
reach
of
which
ones
of
Our
advice
and
Council
and
the
and
the
impact
of
it.
It.
C
Itself
in
situations
where
we
do
have
a
controversy
that
requires
resolution
where
we're
able
to
resolve
matters
early,
which
we
think
is
in
the
best
interest
of
the
County
one
of
the
they're,
really
two
things
that
that
at
least
from
core
council's
perspective,
we're
going
to
highlight
today.
One
is
our
continued
commitment
to
developing
our
expertise
in-house
so
that
we're
able
to
keep
more
work
within
the
office
as
opposed
to
sending
it
to
outside
AI
Council.
E
I
was
manager
opportunity
to
maybe
give
some
opening
remarks.
Thank
you
very
much
good
afternoon
Commissioners
to
see
you.
So
you
know.
Solon
and
I.
E
Corporation
Council
and
risk
management
in
this
past
year
in
particular,
have
really
worked
together,
much
more
closely
I
think
perhaps
in
the
past,
in
the
county,
and
even
during
my
10-year,
to
sort
of
create
a
seamless
relationship
between
what
I,
what
I
consider
to
be
risk's
role
in
in
trying
to
prevent
and
look
forward
around
the
county
it
where
there
might
be
issues
that
we
need
to
deal
with
and
working
closely
with
my
partners
at
Corp
Council
to
make
sure
that
if
there
are
serious
questions
about
the
the
practices
and
procedures
around
the
county,
that
I'm
working
with
my
partners
in
corporate
Council
to
react
and
advise
those
departments
as
on
those
practices
and
procedures,
and
to
me
that
is
a
big
big
part
of
what
I
do
on
a
regular
basis.
E
The
other
I
guess
the
other
component,
which
has
really
been
kind
of
Illustrated
through
some
of
our
work
with
our
kbis,
is
the
focus
that
we've
had
at
risk
on
safety,
reducing
working
injuries,
injury
injuries,
some
on
the
job,
as
well
as
making
sure
that
those
who
are
injured
on
the
job
get
to
return
to
work
as
quickly
as
possible,
and
all
of
that
is
does
save
the
county.
C
Turn
it
over
to
to
Aaron
Thomas
and
he's
going
to
walk
you
through
our
2023
year
in
review.
F
Good
afternoon,
so,
as
you
can
see
on
the
slide
overhead,
one
of
the
things
that
we've
really
leaned
into
this
past
year
was,
as
Solon
I
talked
about
with
integrating
technology
into
the
practice
of
law,
to
make
us
more
efficient,
as
well
as
being
able
to
capture
information,
provide
it
to
clients
so
that
they
can
make
a
better
and
best
informed
decisions
to
that
end.
F
This
past
this
past
year,
we
implemented
Electronic
Reporting
tools
whereby,
whereby
certain
information
is
is
captured
and
and
shared
with
captured
by
our
outside
Council,
we
put
into
place
of
reporting
requirements
that
they
are
to
update,
update
our
office
on
the
developments,
in
our
cases,
at
least
on
a
quarterly
basis,
and
that
satisfied
not
only
requirements
that
we
have
for
managing
the
the
the
cases
in-house,
but
also
reporting
requirements
by
our
excess
outside
insurers
that
what
we
have
seen
in
over
the
past
years.
F
That
has
helped
us
in
some
cases
where,
where
the
client
has
to
make
decisions
they're
in
settlement
on
negotiations
or
attending
settlement
conferences,
that
may
be
that
may
be
ordered
by
the
court
and
being
able
to
give
them
in
real
time.
Hey,
how
much
have
we
spent
to
date
on
this
litigation?
What
does
it
look
like
if
we're
at
this
point
here?
What
does
anticipated
litigation
costs?
F
Look
like
from
Point
through
through
say
a
summary
judgment
motion
filing
and
a
hearing
or
through
trial,
and
in
those
ways
we
can
get
to
give
the
client
relevant
information,
so
they
can
make
decisions
as
to
as
to
you
know
the
best
course
as
to
whether
to
go
forward
with
continued
litigation,
see
it
through
trial
with
the
uncertainty
of
what
that
might
look
like
versus
resolving
resolving
the
case.
F
At
that
point,
the
other
thing
that
we've
really
leaned
into
was
developing
in-house
counsel
in
in-house
talents
and
evaluating
cases
as
they
come
in
to
kind
of
say,
hey
look:
do
we
have
the
not
only
the
the
expertise,
because
we
have
a
a
contingent
of
of
good
lawyers,
but
do
we
have
the
capacity
to
take
on
and
retain
certain
litigation
in-house
versus?
F
You
know
signing
it
to
outside
counsel,
and
so
we
make
those
decisions
every
day
you
know,
as
as,
as
as
cases
come
to
us,
make
those
decisions,
and
what
we
have
seen
over
the
past
year
is
that
we
are
retaining
more
cases
in-house
with
an
eye
toward
early
resolution.
Can
we
get
a
quick
motion
out
looking
at
the
case
evaluating
it?
Is
this
case
something
that
we
can
dispose
of
early
on
motion
and
and
resolve
the
case
favorably
in
in
the
County's
favor,
and
so
so.
C
Right
there,
because
what
Aaron
just
outline
doesn't
just
relate
to
litigation
an
example
on
the
transactional
side
would
be
the
closing
on
the
Pontiac
deal
that
the
closing
occurred
yesterday.
But
from
the
county
side
we
documented
the
deal
through
the
use
of
In-House
expertise,
myself,
Jody,
Hall
and
and
Aaron
Thomas
worked
to
document
a
nearly
20
000
20
million
dollar
deal.
C
That's
not
something
that
went
to
outside
Council
Jody
Hall
was
the
tip
of
the
spear
on
that,
and
that
was
something
that
easily
could
have
cost
Thirty
forty
fifty
thousand
dollars
just
for
the
transaction.
Have
we
gone
to
to
outside
Council?
So
you
know
in
terms
of
looking
for
those
opportunities
to
keep
matters
in-house.
It
doesn't
just
relate
to
litigation.
It
relates
to
the
transactional
side,
where
we
have
a
number
of
talented
attorneys
internally,
where
we're
able
to
to
manage.
C
C
You
know
we
recently
retained
outside
Council,
to
provide
advice
relative
to
immigration
law,
but
but
those
expertise.
Our
internal
attorneys
will
ultimately
be
the
benefactors
of
that
relationship
and
will
add
knowledge
around
immigration
law
to
to
their
practice.
So
sorry,.
F
No,
no,
that's
that's
a
good
point,
because
those
because
those
types
of
processes
and
do
lend
themselves
to
the
transactional
side
of
the
work
as
well.
F
Obviously,
before
this
body,
you
know
the
U.S
Commissioners,
maybe
hear
more
about
the
litigation
that
comes
before
you,
but
obviously
these
these
processes
dueling
themselves
to
the
transactional
side
of
the
work
too.
One
thing
that
I
will
say
about
our
the
two
reporting
process
that
we
put
into
place,
and
that
is
the
some
of
our
outside
counsel.
Actually,
several
of
our
outside
Council
commented
to
us.
It's
basically
said:
hey
look.
F
We
do
this
routinely
and
regularly
for
for
clients
for
our
insurance
clients
that,
where
we
do
this
insurance
defense
and
they
regularly
and
routinely
require
these
this
type
of
poorly
reporting,
we're
glad
to
see
that
Oakland
county
is
putting
this
in
place
right
now,
so
we've
got
good
feedback
from
our
outside
Council
partners
with
respect
to
requiring
this
reporting,
and
so
that
we
can
manage
those
cases
that
we
have
outside,
but
we
also
require
our
our
attorneys
when
we
have
in-house
cases
to
do
the
same
thing
that
they
are
looking
at.
F
C
C
So
litigation
plan
is
their
first
blush
impression
of
the
case
for
purposes
of
what
we're
here
to
talk
about
today,
where
they're
handicapping
the
case
at
in
terms
of
cost
of
defense,
and
then
that
allows
us,
as
we
proceed
through
the
matter,
to
track
against
that
number,
any
any
meaningful
or
significant
developments
in
the
case
they're
required
to
to
update
their
litigation
plan.
These
are
all
standard
ways
of
operating
in
private
practice,
for
whatever
reason
they
have
not
been
implemented
here
within
Court
Council.
C
But
you
know,
because
we're
we're
mined
for
the
limited
resources
that
we
have
as
a
county.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
that
we
are
being
responsible
fiduciaries
of
the
resources
that
that
you
all
are
providing
to
us
and.
E
You
know
the
importance
of
looking
at
a
case
early
and
giving
us
an
idea
of
what
it
might
cost
to
defend
what
the
liability
is
and
doing
that
in
great
detail
is
in
important
for
our
insurers
as
well.
So
our
self-insured
retention
for
our
Auto,
for
example,
is
half
a
million
dollars,
as
you
can
imagine,
in
a
difficult,
a
bad,
auto
crash,
you
get
to
half
a
million
dollars
very
quickly,
so
you
know
that
analysis
is
critically
important
to
know.
E
Do
we
need
to
put
our
insurers
on
notice
and
so
I
very
much
applaud
that
step,
because
it
allows
us
as
well
as
our
insurance
company,
to
understand
that
you
know
that
we
are
let
the
things
insurance
companies
don't
want
are
surprises
right.
They
don't
want
to
find
out
a
year
down
the
what
the
road
that
oh
be.
You
know
we
might
reach
the
500
000
sir
limit,
and
now
your
money
is
on
the
hook
and
then
they
have
to
play
catch-up.
E
C
F
Couple
of
others,
yeah
I,
was
going
to
say
this
before
we
move
off
this
and
I
will
say
this
because
D
had
talked
about
the
collaboration
between
Corporation,
Council
and
and
risk
management.
F
That
was
something
when
I
first
got
here,
that
that
Dee
and
I
both
worked
on,
and
we
said,
hey,
look:
let's
get
a
litigation
plan
in
place,
because
I
knew
that
her
background
was
Insurance
defense,
let's
get
litigation
planning
in
place,
and
and
so
that's
kind
of
how
you
know
again
how
Corporation,
Council
and
risk
management
have
worked
collaboratively
over
the
past
year
in
just
a
couple
other.
C
Points
before
we
move
on,
we've
also
developed
a
profile
in
some
respects
in
terms
of
what
we
look
for
from
outside
Council.
C
You
know
they're
the
substantive
areas
that
we
generate
work
in
contracts,
labor
and
employment
and
those
other
issues
and
areas
that
come
up
in
the
operations
of
County
government.
But
we
look
for
law
firms.
First
of
all,
to
have
experience
working
with
public
entities
they,
so
they
understand
governmental
immunity.
You
know
they
they
understand
how
Authority
is
obtained
and
how
government
speaks
and
how
government
acts
you
know,
because
you
all
work
for
and
around
government
we
take
this
for
granted,
but
folks
in
the
private
sector.
C
Don't
understand
why
you
just
kind
of
can't
go
and
do
things
so
sometimes
when
we,
if
we
were
to
have
a
law
firm,
that
hasn't
worked
with
the
city
or
hasn't
worked
with
the
county.
We
have
to
talk
about
the
operation
of
government
before
we
can
talk
about
the
substance,
so
we're
not
looking
to
engage
in
in
Partnerships
where
there's
a
significant
learning
curve
with
an
outside
Law
Firm,
because
ultimately
you'll
pay
for
that
right.
You'll
pay
for
them
to
learn
how
you
do
things
before
they
can
assist
you.
C
So
that's
a
part
of
it.
We
tend
to
look
for
law
firms,
particularly
in
the
litigation
realm
that
are
aggressive
and
appreciate
our
philosophy
about
an
aggressive
motion.
Practice
early
to
try
to,
in
a
best
case
scenario,
dispose
of
a
case
and
at
a
minimum
narrow
to
issues
right
so
that
we
can
make
a
determination
at
a
certain
point
early
on.
Is
this
a
case?
We
think
it's
going
to
go
the
distance.
Is
this
a
case?
C
We
think
that
we
should
settle,
because
the
costs
for
outside
Council
will
will
be
equal
to
or
less
than,
the
cost
of
of
the
case
continuing.
C
Lastly,
wire
statistics:
important:
we
have
entered
into
conversations
with
our
clients
about
using
data
to
make
decisions
right,
I
use
the
sheriff's
exam
Sheriff's
Office
as
an
example,
the
types
of
cases
that
they
generate,
the
players
involve
the
employees
involved
and
looking
to
see
if
there
are
patterns
right.
Are
there
certain
employees
that
we're
seeing
the
name
Papa
in
a
lot
of
incidents
and
a
lot
of
complaints?
C
Are
there
certain
types
of
claims
that
they
are
encouraging
excessive
force
conditions
of
confinement,
1983
actions
around
alleged
policies
that
run
afile
of
the
Constitution,
and
what
we
found
is
is
that
you
know
those
scenes
are
starting
to
bear
fruit
in
terms
of
you
know
asking
for
the
data
in
situations
where
we
are
trying
to
actively
settle
cases
when
we're
able
to
to
show
a
client
in
real
time.
C
Here's
how
much
money
we
have
invested
in
this
case
already
right
that
you
know
that
I'm,
not
I,
don't
want
to
suggest
to
you
that
how
much
we
have
spent
on
a
case
is
the
soul
deciding
factor.
But
you
got
to
keep
that
in
mind
right.
Sometimes
you
have
to
spend
a
certain
amount
of
money
because
we
want
to
prove
a
point:
there's
no
free
chili
here
right,
but
that's
not
every
instance.
There
are
some
instances
where
it
just
makes
sense.
C
When
you
look
at
what
you
have
invested,
where
it
may
going
what
you
can
get
from
cutting
it
off
at
a
certain
point
where
it
makes
sense.
You
know
to
to
to
D's
point
about
when
you
trigger
the
insurance
carriers.
Money
we
had,
we
had
a
catastrophic,
it
wasn't
a
catastrophic
incident,
but
it
was
a
significant
incident
where
there
was
a
a
an
individual
who
experienced
a
de-gloving
of
skin
on
his
leg.
C
This
is
a
this
is
a
case
that
hadn't
gone
to
trial,
I'm
almost
certain
that
it
could
have
resulted
in
a
seven-figure
judgment
against
Oakland,
County
and
and
when
we
talked
to
risk
management
about
how
we
what
we
had
already
spent
the
settlement
that
was
on
the
table,
we
were
able
to
get
it
done,
such
that
it
did
not
trigger
our
sir.
C
You
know
which
situation
which
would
have
put
us
in
a
place
where
not
a
carrier
has
a
bigger
seat
at
the
table
and
we're
now
on
their
dime.
Now
it
was
an
instance
where
we
had
to
let
them
know
we're
in
your
neighborhood
and
it
became
necessary
to
keep
them
aware
of
where
we
were
with
the
case,
which
was
not
necessarily
very
comfortable
because
they
knew
like
we
did.
C
This
has
seven
figure
potential
exposure,
but
we
were
able
to
work
with
them
amicably
and
resolve
it
to
the
satisfaction,
I
think
of
the
sheriff's
department.
C
You
know
anytime
you're
talking
about
something
close
to
half
a
million
dollars,
that's
real
money,
but
it
was
a
serious
incident
and
it
was
a
case
that
we
have
been
working
on
for
a
while.
So
we've
talked
a
lot
already
I'm
going
to
stop
right
there
and
maybe
give
you
a
chance
to
to
ask
some
questions
based
on
what
we
have
presented
thus
far,
questions.
B
Students,
any
of
the
Commissioners
have
any
questions.
Yes,
I'll
start
with
commissioner
Rahman
yeah.
He
was
followed
by
commissioner
Hoffman.
Thank.
G
G
I
guess
the
one
I
have
a
few
questions
and
they're
sort
of
all
interrelated
as
a
department.
What
do
you
feel
your
greatest
need
or
ask,
is
of
us
in
the
finance
process,
or
is
there
a
need
for
the
financial
aspect
and
the
reason
I
I
load
up?
This
question
is
because
we've
heard
from
several
other
departments
also
with
attorneys
in
different
capacities,
which
have
expressed
some
some
very
strong
feelings
and
sentiments
about
unmet
needs.
G
So
I
guess
I'm
looking
to
you
and-
and
you
know,
core
Council
risk
management
to
sort
of
so
leading
you
down
a
path
kind
of
seeing
whether
the
same
same
opportunities
same
challenges
exist
here,
so
I'll
kind
of
leave
it
open-ended
at
that
and
then
I'll
follow
up
with
with
some
some
additional
thoughts.
You.
E
Want
to
start
sure,
I
think
I.
Think
mine
will
be
relatively
quick.
This.
This
wonderful
committee
in
the
in
the
past
several
months
permitted
risk
management
to
do
a
bit
of
a
reorganization
and
that
reorganization
brought
into
alignment.
I
would
say
our
staff
and
personnel
with
our
current
and
envisioned
sort
of
scope
of
of
work
that
we
do,
and
so
at
this
juncture,
risk
management
doesn't
I,
don't
I,
don't
have
any
great
needs.
E
You
know,
I
am
working
very
hard
to
try
and
do
things
a
bit
smarter
and
we
have
a
great
County
resources
and
I.T
and
all
of
those
folks
that
help
help
me
think
through
the
challenges
that
I
have
and
I
I'm.
Very
mindful
of
the
budget,
I
think
that
the
changes
that
we
made
to
my
the
Personnel
in
my
office,
there
was
a
slight
budget
increase
and
so
I
greatly
appreciate
that.
E
But
I
also
believe
that
when
you
look
at
the
qualitative
advantages
of
those
Personnel
that
it
that
it's
sort
of
more
than
than
pays
for
itself.
So,
at
this
juncture,
and
also
keeping
in
mind,
you
know,
risks
budget
is
split
between
the
building
and
liability
fund
and
The
Fringe
benefit
fund.
So
it's
not
a
general
general
fund
per
se,
and
at
this
juncture
you
know
our
big
pieces
are
obviously
cost
of
claims
workers
compensation
claims,
as
well
as
our
insurance
premiums.
E
Luckily
we
seem
to
be
on
a
relatively
even
Keel
on
insurance
premium
premiums,
our
workers,
compensation
numbers,
look
better
and
I
hope
those
continue
to
improve,
and
then
you
know
our
claims
are
our
claims
and
there's
not
much.
We
should
kind
of
do
about
that.
So
I
appreciate
the
question,
but
I
think
that
you
know
I
am
I,
am
I
am
very
happy
and
appreciative
of
the
support
of
of
this
Commit
This
committee.
C
So,
in
response
to
your
question,
I
I
touch
on
two
areas:
one
is
technology
and
the
other
is
our
people.
That's
all
we
have
right.
If
you
looked
at
the
assets
that
we
have,
we
have
people,
we
have
a
copier
machine,
we
have
computers,
we
have
a
automated
workflow
system.
We
have
an
automated,
which
is
part
of
the
automated
workflow,
but
we
have
a
centralized
point
of
contact
where
someone
can
raise
their
hand
and
say:
hey
I
need
help
right
and
that's
completely
paperless.
C
When
that
comes
into
our
office,
it's
moved
around
without
again
without
generating
paper.
Unless
you
choose
so
you
know,
I
would
put
down
markers
for
a
continued
investment
in
technology
which
allows
us
to
be
more
efficient.
We
are
a
small
office
compared
to
at
least
for
me.
Other
stops
I've
had
along
the
way
in
the
city
of
Detroit,
which
has
when
I
was
there.
They
had
100
employees
just
in
the
Law
Department
Wayne
County
was
similarly
sized.
C
So
so
that
is
something
that
I
think
gives
us
an
advantage,
because
when
we
interact
with
outside
Council
or
we
interact
with
the
larger
World
outside
of
this
campus,
we're
able
to
interface
with
them
in
a
way
that
they
could
be
become
accustomed
to
dealing
with
sure.
It's
not
like,
oh
well,
we
got
to
put
that
in
the
mail
to
you
on.
C
You
know
we're
we're
trying
to
beef
up
our
ability
to
send
you
know
larger
electronic
files
to
send
electronic
files
in
a
manner
that
is
secured
right,
so
so
a
a
a
commitment
to
continuing
to
invest
in
technology
Personnel
investing
in
people.
You
know
one
of
the
things
that
that
we
are
committed
to
is
constant,
continuous
skill,
development,
continuing
education
going
away
to
to
hear
other
experts
speak
and
bring
that
back
to
to
us
we're.
G
C
C
Opportunity
to
hire
another
attorney,
but
I
don't
have
anywhere
to
put
them
at
sure
right.
So
so
the
middle
ground
was
myself
and
my
deputy
and
our
administrative
support
supervisor
talking
about
what
we
could
add
that
we
had
the
space
for
which
ultimate,
which
ultimately
became
a
senior
paralegal.
C
Who
is
someone
who's
going
to
function?
Basically
right
under
the
lawyers,
be
able
to
handle
a
significant
caseload
and
provide
supervision
to
the
two
paralegals
that
we
have
that'll
increase
our
capacity
right,
because
that
senior
attorney
will
basically
be
able
to
work
up
a
draft
of
emotion,
a
draft
of
pleadings
and
get
that
to
an
attorney
where
that
attorney
has
to
spend
less
time
just
on
generating
what
may
become
whatever.
That
action
is
right.
The
way
that
we're
able
to
get
there
is
by
actually
sharpening
our
pencils
on
the
current
budget.
C
G
E
Is
well
and
okay,
so
the
building
space
allocation
costs
relate
to
a
number
of
things:
the
cost
of
facilities,
maintaining
the
space
Insurance
costs,
so
it's
it's
awesome
you
can
keep
I
would
I
would
venture
to
say
that
every
Department
probably
had
an
increase
that
just
related
to
what
went
into
okay.
So
something
not
necessarily
an
expansion
right.
G
G
J
Hi
I'm
Kate,
so
that
software
support
maintenance
is
actually
our
foia
system
and
what
happened
was
is
that
when
we
implemented
it
back
in
2018,
Corporation
Council
kept
that
billing
in
court
council's
budget
and
last
year
we
actually
found
out
that
through
it
it
was
supposed
to
be
administered
by
it
and
it
was
supposed
to
bill
us
quarterly
for
that
software
support
maintenance.
We
worked
out
with
it
and
with
fiscal
to
have
those
funds
transferred
and,
unfortunately,
I
think
that
funds
transfer
didn't
reflect
on
the
budget
report.
But
that's
what
it's
allocated
for.
J
C
C
You
want
to
speak
to
some
some
other,
maybe
less
obvious
areas.
Yeah.
F
So
the
reverse
convictions
is
probably
the
is
is
probably
mentioned-
it's
probably
the
the
largest
era,
where
we've
seen
it
there's
General,
you
know
civil
litigation
surrounding,
say
the
Oakland,
the
sheriff's
department,
because
in
every
so
I've
been
in
Three
Counties
now
you
know
worked
in
Three
Counties,
previously
Macomb
and
Wayne,
and
that's
always
the
biggest.
F
You
know,
area
of
of
litigation
or
source
of
litigation,
because
because
of
the
amount
of
personnel
interacting
with
with
people
on
the
street
and
obviously
the
operation
of
a
jail-
and
you
know-
and
you
know
there-
you
know
there's
that
day
in
and
day
out
and
something's
gonna
happen.
So
but
those
would
probably
be
the
primary
areas,
but
reverse
conviction
is
probably
the
one
that
is
where
we've
seen
this.
F
It's
a
newer
type
of
of
case,
and
you
know
we
see
a
lot
of
action
on
that
particular
Corner,
because
you
have
a
lot
of
plaintiffs
lawyers
kind
of
jumping
into
that
Fray
because
of
the
Allure
of
the
accounts,
the
amount
of
money
that
that
can
generate
I'd.
C
I'd
also
mention
HR
and
I
I
would
mention
HR
in
part,
because
we
have
pivoted
over
the
last,
let's
say
two
years
to
becoming
a
more
unionized
operation
right
where
we,
some
bargaining
units,
have
been
formed
just
in
the
in
the
two
years
that
I've
been
here
and,
and
so
with.
That
comes
a
an
uptick
in
activity
with
HR
and
Labor
Relations,
and
you
know
just
because
there's
an
uptick
in
cases
generally
should
shouldn't
be
interpreted
as
our
people
are
engaging
in
conduct
which
is
creating
greater
risk
for
Oklahoma
County.
C
One
of
the
things
you
have
to
appreciate
is
that
Michigan,
as
a
state
has
done
a
very
effective
job
of
limiting
and
capping,
tort
claims
right
slip
and
Falls,
open
and
obvious
situations.
So
you
know
plaintiff's
lawyers
have
to
look
somewhere
to
make
money
and
I
think
one
of
the
places
they're
looking
more
often
these
days
is
to
government
right.
So
so
what
we're
saying
to
our
clients,
as
a
result
of
that
we
have
to
try
to
as
best
we
can
in
whatever
function
or
service
you're
providing
to
the
community.
C
Let's
try
to
avoid
minimize
or
eliminate
as
best
we
can,
the
risk
that
comes
with
us,
providing
services
to
our
constituents.
It's
a
work
in
progress.
You
know,
as
Aaron
was
explaining
to
you
just
by
the
nature
of
discharging
our
police
Powers.
There
are
things
that
come
with
that,
for
example,
with
Wayne
County
their
primary
function.
The
sheriff
is
as
a
jailer,
they
don't.
They
don't
have
a
detective
Bureau
right.
They
don't
actively
investigate
crimes,
they
don't
they
don't
have
narcotics
enforcement
or
you
know
they.
C
They
have
a
a
patrol
that
works
on
the
water.
I,
don't
know
if
it's
as
robust
as
Oakland
counties
right.
We
got
a
lot
of
lakes
and
water
around
here,
so
they're,
just
certain
things
attendant
to
the
type
of
law
enforcement
services
that
we
provide
right,
because
we
we
contract
with
townships
and
villages
in
Oakland
County
that
don't
have
their
own
police
department
like
a
Pontiac
like
an
Independence
Township,
so
so
there's
risk
that
comes
with
that.
The
fact
that
we
have
have
are
in
the
process
of
implementing
body
counts.
C
That's
huge
right
because
it
says
to
that
citizen.
You
know
it
keeps
them
accountable,
but
it's
also
a
reminder
to
our
deputies
that
you
got
a
camera
on
your
body
right,
and
so
you
know
that
we
don't
have
to
wonder
what
happened.
Let's
watch
the
tape,
yeah
yeah,
so
you
know,
there's
there's,
there's
a
little
bit
more
activity,
but
there
are
also
things
that
I
think
serve
as
a
counter
balance
to
that.
Where.
C
At
the
end
of
the
day,
we'll
be
better
off
than
we
were,
where
certain
things
not
in
place,
yeah.
K
C
When
you,
when
you
create
a
bargaining
unit,
they
now
have
the
benefit
of
the
Merit
rules,
and
then
they
have
a
CBA
and
the
CBA
typically
has
a
grievance
process
right
and
then
and
then
we
have
pabs,
so
you
have
so
these
have
to
be
reconciled
right.
The
first
question
is:
if
you
have
a
grievance
like,
does
it
fall
under
the
mayor
rules,
or
does
it
fall
under
the
CBA,
or
does
it
fall
under
both
it's
all
right
with
a
more
active
risk
manager?
C
Think
that's
an
unsafe
condition
so
that
doesn't
always
result
in
litigation.
We've
had
we've
had
lawsuits
that
are
not
the
counties,
but
because
we
are
the
funding
unit
to
the
52nd
District
Court
we've
had
what
two
three
employment
employment
lawsuits
where
it
wasn't
our
employees,
but
because
of
this
relationship
we
have
with
the
52nd
and
because
of
the
relationship
that
Court
Council
has
where
we
we
represent
them
with
their
consent.
We
are
dealing
with
that
and
what
comes
with
that
is
well,
you
got
to
pay
for
that.
C
You
have
to
pay
for
those,
you
know
those
outside
labor
and
employment
lawyers.
So,
in
that
respect
one
of
the
things
we've
done
is
to
engage
in
a
two-way
conversation,
one
with
the
court
and
one
with
the
administration
in
terms
of
what
our
responsibilities
are
as
the
funding
unit
and
with
the
Court's
responsibilities
or
obligations
are
to
us
as
they're
funding,
you
right
people
think
they
come
out
here
or
the
Court's
right
there.
The
courts
actually
are
part
of
state
government
right
and
I
I.
C
We
could
talk
for
days
about
why
that
is
and
whether
or
not
it's
a
good
idea,
but
the
fact
of
the
matter
is
all
of
the
resources
that
the
courts
need
to
operate.
Guess
who
pays
for
it?
We
do
their
technology
right.
They
depend
on
us
for
their
legal
Services,
their
technology.
They
they
use
our
HR
department.
They
use
our
MMB
right.
C
Their
employees
contribute
into
a
retirement
system
that
is
operated
by
Oakland
County,
because
the
those
are
the
things
we
provide
to
employees
that
are
paid
for
by
the
county,
but
actually
our
court
employees
right.
Thank
you.
Absolutely.
Okay,.
M
You,
madam
chair,
it
sounds
like
you
answered
the
question
I
had
earlier
about.
Sometimes
we'll
have
Finance
meeting
and
we'll
have
a
closed
session
towards
the
end.
The
attorneys
are
sitting
out
there.
Are
we
paying
for
that
or.
M
I
mean:
do
you
keep
an
eye
on
that,
because
sometimes
our
finance
conversations
go
on
for
hours?
That's
fine!
Just
you
know
much
like
how
we
talked
in
Southfield,
Public
Schools,
like
don't
like
schedule
them
first,
if
we
have
a
closed
session
put
it
in
the
early
part,
so
they
can
get
out
of
here
without
charging
this
too
much
okay,.
C
So
we
definitely
watched
the
bottom
line
all
the
time
you
can
have
closed
sessions.
First,
you
know
invoices
come
in
monthly.
Those
invoices
are
reviewed
by
myself
on
Aaron.
Actually,
you
know
as
a
starting
point
when,
when
firms
are
representing
Oakland
County
from
a
rate
standpoint,
we
we
want.
We
want
a
rate
that
is
reflective
of
the
fact
that
you're
representing
public
entity,
the
fact
that
you're
being
paid
with
taxpayer
dollars
right.
So
if
your
normal
rate
is
380
yeah,
we
want
like
240
or
200.
Even
so
so.
C
Aaron
on
Saturday
I've
had
some
situations
that
it
was.
It
was
a
real
negotiation
right
and-
and
so
we
only
bring
outside
counsel
to
those
type
of
meetings
when
they
absolutely
have
to
be
there
if
it's
something
that
we
can
handle
or
if
it's
something
where
we
can
put
them
on
the
screen,
and
they
can
do
it
from
their
office
and
you
can
go,
do
some
other
things
until
we're
up
yeah.
C
C
Now
the
good
thing
about
your
council
is
that
it's
already
paid
yeah,
which
is
why
we
try
to
lean
more
into
in-house
lawyers
that
are
paid
for
it's
a
it's
a
it's
a
number,
that's
been
budgeted
right
and
it's
a
number
that
can
be
relied
on,
but
with
the
volume
and
with
the
size
of
core
console,
it's
just
not
possible
for
us
to
do,
handle
everything
that
comes
our
way
internally.
It's
not
possible,
usually
for
us
when
it's
farmed
out,
it's
not
an
expertise
issue,
it's
a
capacity
issue.
Okay,.
M
And
just
notice
in
the
clock,
I
want
to
I
feel
like
Maxine
Waters.
You
know
something
about
time.
I
forget
what
she
said,
but
question
is
about
self-insured,
how?
What
does
that
mean
in
the
context
of
the
county
and,
of
course,
throughout
the
entire
categorical
book?
We're
talking
about
recouping
claim
claims
reserves
I'm,
not
sure
if
you
answered
that
already.
But
if
you
could
help
me
understand
that
so
self-insured
how's.
That
and
you
know
what
does
that
mean
in
terms
of
a
county
and
recouping
claims
reserved.
E
So
the
county
is
not
truly
self-insured
and
self-insured
means.
Essentially
you
have
no
insurance
and
if
a
claim
comes
it's
on
you're
done
right.
E
We
have
I
want
to
say
roughly
20
insurance
policies
that
cover
a
variety
of
different
things
policy,
our
deductible
when
we
say
SAR,
that's
a
deductible
right,
self-insured
retention,
it's
a
half,
a
million
dollars,
self-insured
retention,
yes,
sir
equals
deductible
like
how
we
normally
talk
about
I,
don't
know
why
they
change
it
when
it's
commercial,
they
do
so.
Our
Auto
deductible
is
a
half
a
million
dollars
per
incident
and
so
for
the
most
part,
unless
it's
pretty
oh
yeah
rough,
unless.
E
Accident
it
comes
directly
out
of
the
building
and
liability
fund.
There
are
other
types
of
activities,
including
yes.
Well,
cyber
security
is
a
great
no.
We
are
lucky
to
have
cyber
Insurance.
E
Our
current
self-intered
retention
is
500
000.,
it
might
go
up
and
it
was
it's
in
the
middle
of
renewal.
So
you
know
we'll
see
we'll
see
how
that
goes,
but
every
you
know
we
renew
each
of
these
insurance
policies
every
year
and
each
time
the
renewals
come
up.
We
have
a
whole
other
conversation.
E
Make
any
sense
you
can
buy
this
insurance.
There
are
some
that
are
a
great
deal.
Our
auto
insurance
is,
quite
frankly,
a
really
good
deal
our
net
and
SWAT
deductibles
25
000
right
for
net
and
SWAT.
Those
claims
come
come
along
relatively
and
frequently,
but
when
they
do
they're
often
relatively
large,
so
that's
what
self-insurance
means
for
the
most
part
most
of
our
activities
for
police
activities,
not
that
in
swat,
but
other
police
activities
for
HR
activities.
E
We
do
not
have
what's
called
primary
insurance,
so
there
is
no
sir
right,
but
what
we
do
have
is
an
umbrella
policy
that
goes
over
top
of
all
of
these
insurances,
but
that
sir,
is
five
million
dollars.
Okay,
so
most
most
HR
claims
that
come
to
us
are
probably
not
going
to
be
more
than
five
million
dollars,
but
if
they
were,
they
would
trigger
the
excess
Insurance,
and
so
so,
hopefully
that
is
a
bit
of
a
picture.
Okay,.
E
So
it
depend
on
the
context
of
what
you're,
exactly
looking
at
I
mean
I
and
I
I'm,
not
familiar
with
every
single
spreadsheet.
Okay.
So,
for
example,
there's
an
auto
there's,
there's
auto
accident:
it's
you
know.
Five
cars
were
involved
right,
and
so
we
pay
out
a
certain
amount
of
money.
But
then
another
party
has
to
pay
us
there's
subrogation.
We
do
against
other
insurance
companies
Etc.
D
E
C
That's
a
good
question
because
it
gets
into
how
do
we?
How
do
we
address
the
attendant
risk
that
we
face
just
by
operating
right?
Is
it
paid
for
out
of
the
general
checking
account,
or
do
we
have
the
benefit
of
someone
else
providing
protection
to
us
because
of
a
certain
profile
that
we
present
that
that's
the
umbrella
policy
right
so
are
we
were
we
able
to
convince
a
carrier
to
take
on
some
of
our
risks
right?
C
The
way
that
we're
able
to
do
that
is
by
having
sound
operating
principles
and
best
practices
by
by
demonstrating
to
them
the
way
that
we
counsel
our
employees
so
that
they
know
their
job
and
so
that
they
know
what
type
of
behavior
May
trigger
a
risk
to
the
county
right,
as
I
said
before.
Obviously,
we
have
a
lot
of
work
to
do
in
that
respect,
but
Oakland
county
is
very
fortunate
to
have
the
resources
to
to
be
effectively
self-insured
right.
The
city
of
Detroit
is
self-insured.
C
A
C
I'm
thinking
is
it's
sufficient,
but
with
the
addition
of
a
third
right.
So
so,
if
you
look
at,
let's
say
we
have
six
or
seven
attorneys
that
do
litigation
and
we
have
three
paralegals
right
on
the
litigation
side,
you're
able
to
almost
have
one
paralegal
for
every
two
lawyers
right,
but
the
paralegals
also
do
some
work
in
the
on
the
transactional
side,
which
is
more
tracking
various
drops
of
documents,
proof.
Reading
research.
A
I
was
thinking
of
the
tapes
too,
that
you
get
like
you're
saying
everything's
filmed
and
we
just
came
up
already
on
prosecutors.
Reviewing
you
know
the
sheriff's
tapes
for
cases,
yes,
I
hope
a
paralegal.
Does
that
and
I
hope
we
have
enough
because
I
mean
you
know,
because
it's
a
cheaper,
cheaper,
Bill,
a
lack
of
a
better
word.
You
know
so.
C
There's
the
there's
the
there's
the
volume
that
comes
in
right
and
then
there
are
the
number
of
attorneys
that
those
paralegals
have
to
provide
service
to
we're,
trying
to
expand
the
capabilities
and
lean
more
into
the
skill
sets
of
our
paralegals.
Quite
frankly,
I
think.
The
way
that
we're
stretching
them
now
is
is
from
them,
admittedly,
a
bit
different
than
they've,
been
using
the
past,
where
we're
asking
we're
asking
them
to
truly
be
a
paralegal
to
to
draft
this
right
to
review
this
right
to
function.
C
The
difference
between
a
paralegal
and
a
lawyer
by
and
large
is
a
license
to
practice.
Law
having
gone
to
law
school,
but
but
a
good,
a
good
paralegal
is,
is
highly
effective
and
very
helpful
right
all
right,
so
so
we're
transitioning
in
some
respects
the
work
that
I
parallel
to
answer
your
question:
it
is
sufficient
and
it
will
get
better
with
the
onboarding
of
a
senior.
That's.
A
I
C
22.,
the
prosecutor's
office
is
bigger
than
us:
okay
right
for
the
size
of
our
office
in
the
volume
that
we
have.
Could
we
use
more
paralegals.
If,
if
we
were
going
to
go
beyond
three
I,
don't
think
it
would
be
more
than
four
just
because
of
the
number
of
attorneys
we
have.
The
thing
that
we
grapple
with
every
day
is:
is
volume
we
don't
we
don't
control?
What
comes
in?
That's
what
I!
That's
what
I
like
to
remind
our
clients
of
like
okay?
We
didn't
create
this
right.
C
It's
like
this
came
here
and
here's
where
things
stand.
So
our
volume,
Ebbs
and
flows
right
put
some
stats
up
here
to
show
you
sort
of
how
things
have
how
things
Stack
Up
year
over
year.
I
think
everything
behind
me
says
pretty
much
increase
right.
C
I!
Think
that's
predicated
on
on
the
state
of
play
in
terms
of
the
county
and
how
we
operate.
I.
Think
part
of
that,
too,
is
is
a
growing
confidence
in
Corporation
Council
right
in
an
appreciation
for
the
for
the
advice
and
the
council,
where
we're
not
going
to
try
to
figure
that
out
here
when
we
have
these.
This
excellent
resource
over
here,
and
so
we
welcome
that
right.
C
This
is
a
positive
development
for
us,
because
we
look
beyond
the
notion
of
kind
of
what
commissioner
Hoffman
asked.
Is
there
more
coming
to
you?
Yes,
but
not
just
because
it's
not
like
there's
necessarily
an
increase
in
in
conduct
that
creates
exposure
for
us,
but
but,
as
we
counsel
I,
think
our
our
clients
are
appreciating
the
value
and
expertise
that
we
bring
to
the
table.
So
we're
getting
more
and.
C
Sharpened
our
pencil
okay,
we
we
essentially
move
money
from
one
area
to
another,
based
on
a
a
very
productive
conversation
with
m
b.
A
B
We're
running
late
already,
but
that's
okay,
I'm,
going
to
give
you
all
the
time
you
need
to
ask
your
questions.
I
just
want
midc
people
to
understand
you're,
going
to
be
a
few
minutes
late
getting
started
here.
That's
sorry!.
I
Thank
you,
so
I
got
a
couple
of
budget
questions
and
a
couple
like.
I
C
That
would
be
a
purpose
of
the
buildings
and
liability
fund
right.
So
I
know
enough
about
the
BNL
to
be
dangerous,
but
essentially,
as
I
understand
it,
it
is
a.
C
It
is
a
fund
that
reflects
an
annual
exercise
where
the
county
tries
to
handicap
how
much
risk
it
thinks
it
will
incur
in
a
given
year,
not
just
the
risk,
but
the
cost
of
addressing
that
risk
and
the
cost
of
Defense
so
matters
where
it's
a
claim
against
or
a
pending
claim
or
a
possible
claim
cost
of
defense
or
looking
at
or
analyzing
or
sorting.
That
issue
comes
from
the
B
L.
If
there's
a
settlement
like
when
we
come
to
claims,
the
the
settlement
money
is
paid
out
of
the
buildings
and
liability
fund.
C
I
can
generally
tell
you
about
the
B
L
that
the
amount
of
money
allocated
to
it
overall
has
been
increasing
every
year.
That's
just
a
fact:
I
think
the
cost
of
outside
counsel,
probably
Ebbs
and
flows
in
any
given
year,
but
I'm
sure,
just
with
the
reverse
conviction
cases
that
we're
defending
alone.
The
cost
of
outside
counsel
is
probably
increased,
right
d
work
and
and
has
educated
me
at
times
on
the
operations
of
the
b
l,
so
I
know
she
has
something
she
wants.
E
Right
I'm
trying
to
remember
so
so
there
was
a.
There
was
a
funny
thing
with
the
BNL
in
terms
of
how
we
were
tracking
outside
counsel
and
another
line
item.
But
why
don't
I
instead
of
me
guessing,
let
me
I
will
get
it
to
you
and
and
I
think
that
you
know
I
guess
I
just
want
to
say
at
any
juncture
in
the
year.
E
If
you
have
questions
about
the
building
liability
fund,
what
we're
paying
for
this
or
that
you
know
I'm,
my
door
might
just
call
right,
you
know,
and
we
can
make
sure
that
you
get
those
those
numbers
in
time
and
again,
this
a
little
bit
ties
back
to
what
you
all
implemented
in
terms
of
in
terms
of
the
estimates
for
cost.
It's
that
is
sort
of
having
that
seamless
conversation
is
really
really
important.
E
So
again
it
we
try
to
look
at
what
what's
on
tap
and
what
we're
estimating
for
costs
and
then
say:
okay,
let's
put
that
in
the
B
L
budget,
it
doesn't
always
work
but
I
want
to
say
the
for
the
last
b
l,
the
outside
Council
was
about
1.9
million,
but
let
me
I
will
check
for
you.
Okay,.
I
E
And
yeah
so
yeah.
That
would
be
that's.
That's
that's
the
term.
The
exact
term
is
a
catastrophic
policy.
Now
true
catastrophic
policies,
really
they
typically
have
about
10
million
dollars,
SAR
right,
but
so
we
have
a
sort
of
a
a
middling,
a
middle
middle
Road
one.
The
question
is
why
why
I
I
know
you
do
the
math
and
every
time
it
comes
up,
you
said
you
reflect
on
it,
but
I
mean
what
is
the
cost
differential
between.
E
Let
me
just
say
that
the
the
trade,
the
tradition
or
the
the
practice
of
having
a
relatively
low
sir
on
the
catastrophic,
was
something
that
was
implemented
under
the
prior
Administration.
It
is
out
my
goal.
It
is
the
goal
of
our
insurance
broker,
who
gives
us
this
wonderful
advice
who
doesn't
make
money
on
commission
by
the
way
he
he?
He
pay
him
a
sad
amount
of
money
each
year
to
give
us
great
advice.
He
thinks
that
we
should
try
and
move
it
up.
E
E
If
we,
as
a
body
recognize
this,
is
the
cost
of
doing
business,
we
do
we
do
we,
we
put
it
in
the
budget,
we
recognize
it.
We
do
our
best
to
to
estimate
and
Auditors
like
that,
the
financial
world,
like
said
it's
all
certainty,
and
the
truth
is
that
you
know
it's
it's
kind
of
a.
We
are
paying
more
money
for
that
additional
five
million
right,
but
we
haven't
quite
gotten
to
the
point
where
we
want
to
make
it
10
million-
and
it's
just
it's
just
literally
a
cost
savings
right.
E
I
And
then
kind
of
what
you
were
mentioning
a
little
bit
that
so
when
the
sheriff
came
in,
they
told
us
that
their
training
budget,
six
million
dollars
and
their
total
budget
is
195
million.
So
that's
three
percent
of
their
budget
goes
to
training.
I
I've
always
been
of
the
mind
that
there
is
some
sort
of
financial
calculus
to
be
made
about
trying
to
convince
the
sheriff
to
spend
more
on
training
because
there's
an
insurance
or
risk
liability,
but
it
doesn't
seem
like
that's
true
if
every
year
their
training
budget
stays
at
three
percent.
So
it's.
I
E
They
probably
have
with
respect
to
you
know
the
sheriff's
train.
That
is,
you
know.
Law
Enforcement
Training
is
a
is
a
specialty
area.
There
are
required
trainings,
I.
Think
the
real
question
is,
you
know
is
the
is
the
type
of
training
we're
doing
and
and
the
follow-up
to
that
training
is.
Is
that
going
to
reduce
reduce
claims
right?
Some
training
is
required,
but
that
just
because
your
training
doesn't
mean
you're
necessarily
not
behaving
in
a
way
that
doesn't
reduce
claims
right.
C
Comes
to
it,
but
to
that
point
relatedly,
that's
why,
from
our
perspective,
data
is
important
right,
so
we're
so
one
of
the
things
that
was
touched
upon
up
here
is
the
fact
that
we
we
now
meet
with
the
sheriff.
What
every
every
two
months,
every
two
months
to
talk
about.
What's
happening,
types
of
cases,
potential
frequent
flyers
status
of
Active
cases,
because
it
would
be
it
would
be
foolish
of
us
as
core
Council
not
to
realize
where
most
of
our
litigation
claims
come
from.
That's
not.
E
C
When
we
said
to
to
sheriff,
Bouchard
is
hey:
let's
talk
more
frequently,
I
mean,
obviously
we
talk
when
we
have
to,
but
let's
make
it
a
point
every
other
month
to
talk
about
these
four
things
and
anything
else
that
comes
up
and
and
I
think
they
appreciate
that
I
know.
We
appreciate
that
we're
never
going
to
tell
them
to
train
less.
Of
course,
we'd
be
happy
with
that.
As
a
matter
of
fact,
based
on
these
stats,
it
looks
like
this
is
something
you
might
want
to
consider.
C
C
I
One
last
question:
thank
you
chair,
so
the
like
philosophical
one,
so
you
talked
about
reverse
convictions
right
and
you
know
when
we've
been
in
closed
sessions
before
right,
there's
kind
of
the
it's
come
up
where
right
in
closed
session.
Before
it's
come
up
that
we.
I
Thank
you
Bob.
So
it's
come
up
right.
Well,
what
is
the
benefit
to
the
County
versus
the
benefit
to
the
County
residents
and
right?
So
you
are
here
to
defend
the
County
government,
which
sometimes
gets
disentangle
with
the
County
residents
and
so
like
wrongful
conviction
or
reverse
conviction,
as
you
call
it
right.
Is
that
like
and
I
guess
not
to
ask
you
for
strategy
but
like
in
the
theoretical
sense
right?
That's
Oakland
County
messed
up,
and
maybe
it
was
a
generation
ago
before
any
of
us
were
alive
or
something.
I
L
C
So
I
would
start
by
saying
that
when
those
complaints
come
in,
those
are
allegations
and
they
have
to
be
proven.
Okay,
our
our
our
policy
as
a
as
a
county
is
a
firm
but
fair
defense
right.
If
it's
a
meritorious
claim,
then
we
okay,
then
we
got
to
consider.
We
got
to
be
reflecting
what
we
got
to
consider,
but
if
it's
not
we're
going
to
vigorously
defend
it
right,
so
so,
when
those
claims
come
in,
we
immediately
start
looking
at
the
merits
of
it.
C
You
know
in
the
cases
that
we
have,
that
are
active.
The
four
none
of
them
is
none
of
them.
At
this
point,
is
it
a
clear-cut
situation
of
we
have
wronged
right
there?
C
There
is
one
case
in
particular
that
I'll
mentioned,
which
is
the
Jesus
case
where,
because
of
an
aggressive
posture
we
took
where
we
said
in
court,
we
think
that
when
an
individual
accepts
money
from
the
wrongful
imprison,
wrongful
compensation
imprisonment
act
Wicca
that
once
they
accept
that
money,
it
essentially
is
a
bar
to
any
other
claims
or
recourse
against
Oakland
County.
C
Right,
so
think
about
that
for
a
minute
who
has
the
deepest
pockets
on
the
wrongful
conviction,
claim
Oakland
County
right,
we
we
got
former
Oakland
County
court,
judge
Kumar
to
agree
with
us
and
say:
yeah
I
think
that's
what
it
means
right.
So
what
that
meant
is
is
the
county
in
this
instance,
unless
in
a
successful
appeal,
is
raised
we're
out
of
this
case.
This
has
nothing
to
do
with
the
merits
of
the
case,
but
it's
a
it's
a
absolute
defense
to
say
we
had
an
agreement.
We
settled
this.
You
can't
you're
done
right.
C
This
leaves
these
individual
plaintiffs
they're
only
recourses
to
go
to
federal
court
and
go
after
those
individual
actors
that
they're
saying
wrong
man
right
so
there's
another
bite
at
the
Apple.
We're
not
saying
that
you
don't
have
a
a
valid
claim,
but
we're
saying
that
Oakland
county
is
not
responsible
for
your
claims,
maybe
Deputy
retired
Deputy
such
and
such
or
former
this
expert
or
that
expert,
but
not
Oakland,
County
right.
So
so,
just
because
someone
goes
to
court
and
files
a
complaint
and
says
you
did
this
and
that
that's
not
the
end
of
the
story.
C
C
I
hope
that
answered
your
questions.
Thank.
O
And
just
a
brief
follow-up
on
the
5
million
versus
10
million.
Yes,
it
came
up
in
the
transportation
Arena
that
yes
you're,
requiring
yes
10
million
out
of
all
our
transportation
vendors
or
you
know
the
authorities,
that's
cost
them
if
they
had
to
shop
for
new
policies
and
that's
thousands
per
vehicle
premium.
So
that
I
mean
so
what
they
asked
me
that?
What
what?
Why
wasn't
5
million
enough
and
you
guys
required
10.
E
E
I,
don't
know
why
those
who
set
those
limits
initially
I
I
was
not
involved
in
that
underlying
agreement,
but
it
when
someone
wants
an
exception
to
an
agreement,
they
come
to
risk
and
say:
can
we
can
we
make
an
exception
and
the
exception
it
was.
Essentially
you
know:
how
could
we
let?
E
How
could
we
require
this
of
other
entities
and
not
of
every
entity
if
they
don't,
if
they'd
already
agreed
to
it,
so
I
can
get
you
further
background
on
that,
but
and
and
auto
is
a
particularly
difficult
I
mean
Otto
is
a
particularly
challenging
area.
So
yeah
that's
to.
C
Say,
though,
I
was
saying
in
general
sense
in
a
general
sense,
the
county
is
merely
providing
resources
for
somebody
else
to
provide
the
service
right
so
who?
Who
should
bear
more
of
the
risk
for
that?
The
person
that's
driving
the
van
or
the
operator
van
the
person,
that's
responsible
for
the
maintenance
and
upkeeping
making
sure
that
that,
when
you
grab
that
rail
to
get
on
that
bus,
it's
a
fixed
or
Oakland
County.
All
we
did
is
give
Walter
money
to
do
what
they're
there
to
do
right.
So.
C
B
Okay,
thank
you.
Thank
you.
I
have
two
questions.
One
is
about
the
wrongful
conviction.
Yes,
ma'am
we're
seeing
more
of
this
because
of
the
change
in
the
state,
law
and
I.
Think
everybody
here
agrees.
We
don't
want
people
in
prison
that
don't
belong
there,
that
didn't
do
the
crime.
Do
we
have
a
pot
of
money?
That's
set
aside
for
this?
Is
it
growing?
How
how
do
we
deal
with?
Does
it
fit
into
our
budget
somewhere
else
or
to.
C
My
knowledge,
I,
don't
know
that.
There's
a
fund
established
for
wrongful
conviction
cases
it
is
I
can
tell
you
that
it
is
an
ongoing
conversation
between
Risk
Management,
Corp,
Council
and
Kyle
Jim
and
his
staff.
We
also
haven't
been
hit
with
a
judgment.
Yet
so
we
haven't
been
forced
to
the
the
decision
that
I
just
referenced
in
the
Jesus
case
is
huge
because
in
the
other
four
wrongful
conviction
cases
guess
what
the
plaintiff
accepted
Wicked
money.
C
So
we
immediately
went
in
those
cases
and
said
to
those
judges-
hey
you
heard
about
this
right
and
in
a
unrelated
case
to
Oakland
County
but
filed
against
the
city
of
Inkster.
The
the
federal
judge
in
that
case
basically
adopted
the
reasoning
from
Judge
Kumar
in
our
case.
So
what
am
I
saying
fingers
crossed,
but
we
may
have
undercut
a
growing
cottage
industry.
B
Well
and
I
guess
what
I'm
looking
for
is
that
the
right
people
are
talking
about
it?
Oh.
E
It
is
the
B
L
right,
so
that's
that's
where
it
would
come
from,
and
so
we
we
have
lots
of
discussions
all
the
time
about.
You
know
quote-unquote
setting
aside
enough
in
the
B
L
to
cover
our
our
potential
contingent
contingent
liabilities,
but
it's
sort
of
an
ongoing
discussion.
C
B
Last
question:
I
have
really
comes
from
the
rest
of
the
hearings
that
we've
had
over
the
past
couple
of
weeks,
and
that
is,
there
appears
to
be
among
the
attorney
fees
that
we
pay
a
real
disparity
now
and
it
got
really
triggered
by
the
establishment
of
the
midc,
because
those
attorneys
are
getting
paid
120
an
hour.
I
think
is
the
number
and
that's
all
good,
but
probate
was
in
here
yesterday
saying
we
can't
we
can't
we
don't
pay
that
and
therefore
we're
either
losing
lawyers
to
those
any
openings.
B
There
might
be
there
or
losing
lawyers
overall,
and
it's
not
just
probate.
So
my
question
is:
could
we
have
a
county-wide
look
at
what
we
are
paying
these
attorneys
that
are
dealing
with
the
outside
people,
whether
it's
an
Indigent
or
a
child?
That's
in
the
probate
you
know
and
has
to
have
Council
attended.
Can
we
take
a
look
at
that
overall
so
that
we're
treating
people
who
are
getting
ours?
You
know
Services
equitably.
C
That's
a
conversation
that
we
would
be
happy
to
participate
in,
but
quite
honestly
in
difference
to
me
that
that's
what
he
does
because
you
have
you
have.
We
have
now
established
an
office
that
provides
legal
defense
to
those
that
are
saying
they
can't
pay
for
it
right
right,
that's
a
but
that's
a
different
consideration
from
Court
Council
retaining
outside
Council
to
handle
very
discreet
and
usually
sort
of
unique
or
novel
areas,
or
just
a
volume
of
work
for
the
county
right.
It's.
B
C
I
guess
and
I
guess.
Lastly,
chair
Markham,
we're
aware
of
it
we're
aware
of
the
conversation
that's
been
going
on.
B
K
I
just
said
one,
and
you
made
me
think
of
it
when
you
asked
your
question
about:
does
a
reinsure
or
insurance
cover
or
wrongly
convicted
damages.
C
E
Current
policies
go
back
only
about
eight
years,
our
current,
so
it
would
so
if,
if
we
had
Insurance,
it
would
have
been
under
that
umbrella
policy
that
catastrophic.
E
C
K
C
E
G
Right,
thank
you.
So
my
question
actually
revolves
around
sometimes
some
things
that
are
presented
over
the
course
last
few
days.
Everything
we
talked
about
really
is
largely
external
right
risk
management.
Things
like
that
internally,
you
know,
for
instance,
probate
brought
to
us.
You
know
yesterday
the
issue
that
you
know
their
staff
sometimes
feels
unsafe
right
and
what
is
What
is
the
value
and
risk
assessment
there
to
investing
the
funds
to
change
the
setup
put
in
barriers.
I
think
adorably
talked
about.
G
You
know
some
things
like
that
granted
there's
an
upfront,
Capital
Improvement
cost
versus
the
potential
risk
of
a
disgruntled,
whoever
coming
in
and
attacking
an
employee
and
setting
up
a
risk
situation.
They
talked
about
furniture,
that's
kind
of
macgyvered
together
and
you
know
put
on
risers,
and
you
know
one
step
from
falling
on
someone
again.
I
know
that's
probably
outside
of
the
realm
of
maybe
just
an
attorney.
No.
E
That's
right,
that's
what
I
do
we
do
so
I
do
a
lot
of
internals.
So,
like
you
know,
I
I
would
welcome
a
phone
call
a
visit.
You
know
whether
it's
Building
Safety
that
I
would
interface
with
on
some
things
or
facilities
on
some
other
things
that
relate
to
their
furniture
or
others.
But
but
look
if
someone
sits
on
a
chair
and
the
chair
collapses,
you
know
that's
and
they
have
a
broken
tailbone.
You
know,
that's
a
that's
a
problem.
G
E
Becomes
about
you
know,
some
are
well
with
the.
C
Court
Probate
Court:
that's
not
our
County
government
Okay,
so
deep,
it
wouldn't
necessarily
be
advisable
for
D
to
just
go
over
and
say
I
think
you
need
to
do
this.
Why?
Because
that?
That's
that's
a
that's,
not
County
government!
That
is
that
is
they.
We
provide
services
to
them
with
their
consent
right.
What
we
do
for
them
is
we
provide
the
money
that
they
use
to
administer
the
court
right.
So
so
you
all
give
them
that
money.
You
know
how
much
money
they
have.
C
So
you
know
a
certain
type
of
claims
come
in
either
they'll
be
able
to
pay
for
it
out
of
what
you
gave
them
or
they
got
to
come
back
here.
That's
that's
why
we
care
right,
because
we
know
we're
the
backstop
for
you,
so
so
my
thing
to
them
would
be.
If
you
know,
there's
a
broken
chair
over
there.
We
would
encourage
you
to
fix
it.
Why?
Because,
if
somebody
hurts
themselves,
it's
catastrophic
some
kind
of
serious
injury.
If
it's
not
in
your
budget,
you're
gonna
have
to
come
back
and
see
us
anyway.
C
That's
that's
what
that's
one
reason
among
many
that
we
care
we.
We
are
the
back
side
when
they
get
sued,
whether
it
be
the
Circuit
Court
52nd
or
the
Probate
Court.
We
because
we're
their
funding
unit,
we
get,
we
get
to
see
it
at
the
table
on
how
that
matter
gets
resolved
because
we're
essentially
think
of
us
as
their
guarantor
right.
If
they,
if
they
don't,
have
the
money,
then
by
law
because
we're
their
funding
unit.
C
G
C
E
So,
where
I
focus,
my
proactive
work
is
not
necessarily
in
office
spaces
I
do
a
lot
of
work
with
water
resources,
a
lot
of
work
with
Parks
a
lot
of
work
with
with
facilities
because
they
they
are
in
the
work
they
do
is
inherently
dangerous
right.
It's
trades
type
of
work,
so
I
focus
a
lot
of
my
proactive
compliance
with
regulations
and
training
Etc
with
those
folks.
Now
you
know,
if
someone
in
an
office
setting
comes
to
me
and
says,
D
I
think
this
isn't
safe.
E
E
C
Or
I'll,
do
you
want
better?
Let's,
let's
leave
the
core
out
of
it.
Let's
say
it's
the
let's
say
the
furniture
is
in
the
prosecutor's
office
or
the
sheriff
or
the
clerk
or
the
treasurer.
Those
are
County
government,
but
they're
constitutionally
established
offices.
But
if
it
happens
there,
then
it
impacts
our
bottom
line
because
it's
the
county,
but
it's
still
the
same
answer
which
is
come.
How
can
we
help
you
help
me
help
you?
If
we're
not
aware
of
it,
we
can't
do
anything.
Yeah
right,
yeah,.
O
E
B
Thank
you,
your
patience,
it's
very
interesting
and
I
think
it's
something
we
all
many
of
us
are
learning
about
is
how
the
litigation.
E
K
H
Q
Q
Q
I
want
to
start
out
with
this
slide,
because
I
think
it's
so
important
to
recognize
that
the
provision
of
indigent
defense
Services
is
a
constitutional
duty
of
government,
and
so
it
it's
a
thing
that
we
that
we
do
and
we
do
it
the
people
who
are
practitioners
in
it
do
it
because
they
think
it's
valuable
and
they
want
to
help
Society.
But
regardless
of
those
feelings,
it
is
a
constitutional
Beauty.
Q
It's
not
something
that
we
can
avoid
if
we
wanted
to
everyone
charged
with
a
crime
is
entitled
to
a
lawyer
and
if
they
can't
afford
one,
we
have
to
provide
that
lawyer
for
them.
We
do
that
in
our
office
for
the
sixth
Circuit
Court,
which
means
all
felony
cases
in
the
county,
because
ultimately,
the
felony
cases
are
the
responsibility
of
the
circuit
and
then
the
four
divisions
of
the
52nd
District
Court.
We
do
that
because
the
county
is
the
funding
unit
for
all
of
those
courts,
so
we
use
a
hybrid
model
to
do
this.
Q
We
have
an
in-house
public
defender's
office,
which
is
run
by
Paulette,
and
we
also
have
a
roster
of
independent
contractor
attorneys.
So
our
the
PD
offices
is
very
new.
Just
created,
Paulette
is
in
the
midst
of
hiring
and
right
now.
The
split
that
we
have
is
about
a
90
10
splint,
so
we
have
about
10
percent
of
our
cases,
mode
that
we
want
to
give
to
the
PD
office,
and
the
remaining
90
percent
goes
to
our
roster
attorneys.
Q
To
give
you
an
idea
of
this
is
just
a
snippet
of
our
caseload,
because
what
you
see
on
the
screen
here
is
just
our
felony
case
appointments.
So
this
doesn't
take
into
account
our
misdemeanor
cases
and
it
doesn't
take
into
account
the
arraignment
attorney
days
that
we
staff,
but
you
can
see
the
fluctuations
here
over
the
last
couple
of
years.
This
is
just
since,
since
my
office
has
existed,
but
we
we
in
FY
22
made
approximately
4
400
felony
case
appointments
for
that
year,
so
4
400
cases
that
came
to
us.
Q
That
said
it's
a
felony
and
I
need
a
lawyer
this
year,
we're
on
track
to
do
about
4,
800
4
900,
so
you
heard
from
the
circuit
court
that
case
loads
are
up.
I
can
confirm
that
on
our
end,
caseloads
are
definitely
up
by
about
five
to
ten
percent,
so
we're
seeing
more
cases
charged
and
and
really
what
it
is
I
think
is
that
we're
coming
off
the
covet
lull
and
so
we're
really
getting
back
to
what
historically
had
been
the
norm.
Q
You
heard
judge
Mattis
chief
judge
Mattis
talk
a
little
bit
about
some
delays
in
finding
attorneys
in
some
cases.
What
he's
talking
about?
There
is
cases
that
are
already
bound
over
in
circuit
court,
and
an
attorney
has
asked
to
withdraw
from
that
case.
So
maybe
there's
a
breakdown
in
the
relationship
between
the
attorney
and
the
client.
Q
Maybe
the
attorney's
not
doing
things
the
client
wants
done
or
the
client
is
extremely
difficult,
and
the
judge
allows
that
attorney
to
withdraw
it
used
to
be
that
judges
could
pull.
Whoever
was
in
the
front
row
and
say:
okay,
Ms
Coy
is
not
your
attorney
anymore.
Mr
Cabell
you're
in
the
front
row
you're
the
new
attorney
I.
Q
Anymore,
there's
very
good
reasons
why
they
can't
do
that,
but
it
does
create
in
those
cases
it
can
create
a
a
longer
delay
than
they
like
in
getting
a
new
a
new
attorney
appointed
already
in
in
calendar
year
22
we
had
153
felony
withdrawal
cases
already
in
calendar
year
23.
So
that's
seven
months,
we've
had
130
of
those,
so
that
basically
means
that
I
have
a
staff
person
who
works
on
withdrawal
cases.
Basically,
every
business
day.
Q
Q
We
have
to
contribute
each
year,
a
local
share,
and
so,
when
all
of
these
reforms
were
made
at
the
state
level,
one
of
the
things
that
happened
is
each
funding
unit
got
its
local
share
set
by
Statute.
So
it
was
a
calculation
of
the
average
that
the
county
spent
on
Indigent
defense
for
the
three
fiscal
years
preceding
the
midcx
quarter,
10,
11
and
12.,
so
that
calculation
was
made
every
funding
unit
has
that
set,
and
it
can
only
go
up
each
year
by
three
percent
or
CPI.
Q
Q
Every
year,
as
you
know,
because
we
were
just
here
three
weeks
ago
to
accept
our
grant,
we
submit
a
compliance
plan
and
cost
analysis
to
the
state
we
tell
them.
This
is
how
much
it's
going
to
cost
over
and
above
our
local
share
to
funding
digit
defense,
and
then
they
either
approve
or
disapprove
our
plan.
In
this
case
they
approved
it
and
they
tell
us
here's
how
much
grants
on
you
will
give
you
so
this
year,
we're
slated
to
receive
an
midc
approved
our
plan
in
June.
Q
You
have
already
accepted
the
Grant,
and
so
the
only
thing
that
needs
to
happen
now
is
that,
as
of
October
1st,
once
we
hit
the
new
fiscal
year,
we'll
sign
that
Grant
contract
and
then
we'll
get
our
first
disbursement
of
of
this.
The
number
you
see
on
the
screen,
which
is
just
over
21
million
dollars
and
our
grant
really
has
two
main
components.
Q
It's
the
funding
of
our
current
employees,
which
is
about
three
and
a
half
million
dollars,
and
then
it's
the
funding
for
a
payment
of
our
contracted
attorneys,
and
this
year
we
have
a
new
standard
that
we
have
to
comply
with,
which
is
hourly
payments
across
the
board
for
adult
criminal
defense,
and
so
that's
quite
honestly,
the
brunt
of
our
of
our
plan
is
is
really
not
Personnel.
It's
about
18
million
dollars,
that's
going
to
grow
toward
paying
our
independent
contractor
attorneys!
Q
We
also
have,
in
our
grant
budget
this
year,
some
funding
a
few
hundred
thousand
dollars
for
the
construction
of
confidential
meeting
space
in
the
52-2
district
court
in
Clarkston.
So
previously
they
don't
the
way
that
their
lockup
is
situated,
because
the
building
is
pretty
small.
They
don't
have
a
place
for
an
attorney
to
meet
with
a
client
who
is
in
custody
without
a
deputy
having
to
be
standing
right
there,
and
so
we're
getting
Grant
funded
to
reconfigure
that
space,
so
that
we
can
create
that
Paulette's
office.
Q
The
public
defender's
office
is
currently
located
in
the
South.
What
is
known
as
the
South
Oakland
building,
although
I
know,
for
many
people,
Troy
is
not
South,
but
it
is
called
the
South
Oakland
office
building
her
office
is
currently
located
there.
So
we're
also
getting
some
funding
to
create
a
small
Annex
space
in
the
north
building
the
old
Children's
Village
just
across
the
parking
lot,
so
that
she
can
have
some
dedicated
space
to
get
Pontiac
for
when
her
attorneys
are
up
here
at
certain
Court.
Q
Q
That
was
done
because
we
are
now
required
to
have
Attorneys
at
every
arraignment,
which
means
they
have
to
talk
to
their
clients
prior
to
the
arraignment.
So
it
takes
more
Deputy
time
to
coordinate
those
Communications
within
the
jail,
whereas
before
they
were
never
entitled
to
an
attorney,
so
they
didn't
have
anyone
to
talk
to
before
the
arraignment
they
were
just
put
on
the
camera.
Q
Q
This
slide
is
just
to
kind
of
give
you
a
sense
of
where
we
fall
from
an
employee
perspective
in
the
public
defender's
office.
You
can
see.
Oakland
is
on
the
bottom
of
the
slide,
but
it's
our
minimum
and
maximum
range
are
really
some
of
the
best
in
the
state
when
it
comes
to
what
we
are
paying.
Our
our
employee
public
defenders
and
we
made
a
conscious
effort
to
make
sure
that
their
classifications
were
consistent
with
the
prosecutor.
Q
Q
When
it
comes
to
hourly
fees
paid
to
our
contract
attorneys,
they
are
changing
significantly.
This
year
the
range
is
going
to
be
anywhere
from
120
an
hour
for
misdemeanor
cases
up
to
192
dollars
an
hour
for
Capital
felonies,
so
that's
murder,
first
degree
criminal,
sexual
conduct,
armed
robbery,
anything
that
you
could
get
life
in
prison.
Q
For
and
again
we
made
a
conscious
effort
to
talk
to
our
partners
in
Wayne
and
Macomb
to
make
sure
that
these
rates
were
going
to
be
consistent
because
we
don't
want
or
need
a
system
where
attorneys
are
saying:
Macomb
pays
more,
so
I'm
going
to
go
to
Macomb
or
when
he
pays
more.
You
know.
None
of
us
want
that,
because
we
all
want
this
system
to
function.
Q
Q
Q
Wait
a
few
weeks
to
get
an
expert
or
investigator
appointed.
It
was
kind
of
a
cumbersome
process
and
we've
broken
down
a
lot
of
those
barriers
and
we
have
significant
funding
within
our
budget
to
pay
for
experts
and
investigators,
and
we
also
have
will
have
all
that's
going
to
be
doing
interviews
in
the
next
several
weeks
for
an
actual
employee
investigator
within
the
public
defender's
office,
which
is
going
to
be
great.
Q
Q
Of
our
expert
and
investigative
requests
that
we've
seen
in
fiscal
year,
23,
which
is
the
top
bar
we've,
seen
66
requests
for
an
expert
already
and
committed
170
thousand
dollars,
and
that's
compared
to
last
year,
where
we
had
45
requests
and
spent
150
000
and
you
see
the
same.
A
similar
ratio
for
investigators
requests
are
are
essentially
doubled
from
what
they
were
last
year.
So
we're
really
getting
these
resources
out
the
door
and.
Q
This
is
something
that
we
look
at
to
say:
not
only
are
we
providing
valuable
service
to
our
attorneys,
but
our
our
our
our
attorneys
providing
valuable
service
to
their
clients,
because
we
know
that
people
are
asking
for
investigator
and
expert
assistance
in
situations
where
maybe
before
they
would
have
said
and
to
cumbersome
or
I,
don't
have
the
time
to
do
it
or
it's
not
going
to
get
approved
anyway.
So
why
should
I
even
ask.
Q
This
slide
gives
you
what
I
Envision
as
future
Staffing
and
future
funding,
and
so
we
expect
the
public
defender's
office
to
grow
over
the
next
several
fiscal
years,
so
the
chart
on
your
left,
you
can
see
right
now
with
with
12
positions
in
the
office
and
about
10
percent
of
the
caseload.
The
hope
is
over
the
next
five
years.
We
would
grow
the
public
defender's
office
to
where
it
could
take
40
percent
of
the
case
load.
Q
To
do
that,
it's
going
to
take
34
turn
34
positions,
that's
not
all
attorney
positions,
some
of
that
is
paralegals
and
investigators
and
social
workers,
but
so
you
can
see,
as
our
public
defender
positions
go
up,
the
number
of
contract
attorney
Physicians
needed
will
go
down.
Q
This
is
not
an
Apples
to
Apples
comparison,
because
our
contract
attorneys
are
not
all
taking
of
what
I
would
consider
to
be
a
full
caseload.
So
you
can
see
right
now.
It
says:
well,
we
need
46
contracted
attorneys.
That
would
mean
like
a
full-time
40-hour,
a
week
person
we
have
way
more
than
46
contract
attorneys.
We've
got
like
150,
but
they're,
not
all
taking
a
consistent
case
loan.
Q
These
are
some
things
we're
looking
at
for
the
coming
year
at
IDC
standards,
six
and
seven.
We
expect
to
be
approved
by
Licensing
and
Regulatory
Affairs.
This
fall
standard.
Six
will
regulate
the
maximum
number
of
Return
of
cases
that
an
attorney
can
take.
So
a
lot
of
those
Staffing
projections
that
I
just
showed
are
based
on
the
standard
six
numbers
to
say
well,
if
an
attorney
can
only
take
this
many
cases,
here's
what
our
total
case
loan
is.
Q
The
standard
that
we
set
for
attorneys
and
what
level
of
cases
they
can
take
I
think
actually
is
pretty
stringent,
but
standard.
Seven
is
designed
to
be
a
Statewide
standard
to
say,
okay,
but
you
want
to
take
a
murder
case.
You
have
to
have
tried
going
to
jury
trial
on
X
number
of
cases,
we're
pretty
consistent
already
with
standard
seven.
There
are
a
few
areas
that
we
we
will
need
to
to
change,
but
the
point
is
to
set
a
Statewide
standard
and
it's
also
going
to
require
increased
oversight
when
it
comes
to
actual
Court
observation.
Q
And
then,
as
you've
heard,
the
last
bullet,
there
is
the
possible
integration
of
juvenile
cases,
and
so
there
is
a
bill
pending
right
now
that
would
bring
all
juvenile
delinquency
cases
under
the
auspices
of
the
midc,
which
would
eventually
mean
it
wouldn't
happen
immediately,
but
once
the
standards
were
in
place,
you
would
see
something
very
similar
to
what
we
have
for
adults,
where
all
the
appointments
would
have
to
become
independent
to
the
Judiciary.
The
payments
would
be
our
new
Etc.
B
All
right
excuse
me
so
first
up
I
have
commissioner
Covell,
followed
by
commissioner
Rahman
and
then
commissioner,
well.
I
Q
Well
and
that's
part
of
the
concern
that
the
Circuit
Court
expressed
to
you
when
they
talked
about
their
need,
because
there
will
be
that
subset
of
cases
and
also
probate,
because
no
one's
talking
about
any
probate
stuff
coming
into
the
midc,
you
know
it.
They
will
have
that
unmet.
Need
that
they're
still
going
to
be
appointing
attorneys.
The
courts
will
still
have
to
do
that.
Q
I
Can
you
help
us
understand?
You
mentioned
the
52s
right
that
you
do
stuff
with
the
52
yeah.
How
does
that
so
work.
Q
Together
in
the
52
s,
well,
so
we
are
the
appointing
what
is
called
the
appointed
Authority
for
every
court
that
we
fund.
Since
we
fund
the
52s,
we
have
to
appoint
attorneys
on
all
of
their
misdemeanor
cases.
You
know
the
ones
that
stay
there,
we're
actually
I
can't
tell
you
how
excited
I
am
to
have
Paulette
and
to
have
a
public
defender's
office
in
this
County,
because
what
it
allows
us
to
do
and
I'm
talking
even
over
the
last
month.
Q
So
I
don't
know
if
that
I
don't
know
that
that
totally
answered
your
question.
But
the
point
is
to
say
the
public
defender's
office
is
a
separate
entity,
but
they
get
appointed
by
our
office
to
handle
wherever
we
need
them
to
handle
in
the
county
and
Paulette
and
I
are
very
collaborative
in
making
sure
that
we're
sending
them
to
the
places
where
we
really
need
to
send
them
and
not
wasting
their
time.
I
Cool
see
with
the
52s
is
all
of
this
also
being
copied
copies
that
are
replicated
in
the
50th
or
the.
N
Q
N
Q
N
I
That
still
is
acceptable,
like
theoretically,
like
it's
obviously
acceptable
acceptable
based
on
the
standards.
But
like
is
that
the
thing
you
know
you
you
referred
to
like
well
yeah,
you
might
not
make
a
good
argument.
If
then
you're
not
going
to
get
called
up,
and
then
you
can't
pay
your
mortgage,
because
you
may
too
good
of
an
argument
in
front
of
a
judge
that
doesn't
call
you
back
so.
N
Q
Q
His
Community
Corrections
Specialists
are
in
the
jail
every
day,
very
early
meeting
with
everyone
who's
on
the
arraignment
list
for
that
day,
getting
their
background,
their
social
history,
their
criminal
history
calling
references
potentially,
if
they
have
you
know
and
formulating
a
bail
recommendation
that
they
then
give
to
the
judge
or
the
magistrate
to
say,
here's
our
recommendation
of
what
you
should.
Q
And
you
know
the
judge
is
not
bound
to
follow
their
recommendation.
Certainly
they
make
their
own
decisions,
but
the
fact
that
they're
conscientious
about
looking
at
how
we
use
cash
bail
in
our
system
trying
to
eliminate
using
the
use
of
cash,
bail
and
saying
okay
there's
there
are
a
certain
subset
of
people
who
should
not
get
out
of
jail.
Q
But
unless
we're
dealing
with
that
small
subset
of
people,
we
really
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
not
imposing
cash
conditions
that
are
just
going
to
make
them
poorer,
keep
them
locked
up
and
they
lose
their
job.
Then
they
lose
their
kids.
Then
they
lose
their
housing.
You
know
getting
in
that
cycle,
so
I
can't
say
enough
good
things
about
that
team.
N
To
the
defense,
because
very
often
you
will
have
a
conversation
with
someone
that
you
were
assigned
to
and
you'll
say
what
is
your
criminal
history?
I,
don't
have
anything
and
then
you
get
the
pre-trial
service
and
they
have
five
felonies
and
12
misdemeanors.
So
you
are
in
a
better
position
to
argue
for
a
bond
when
you
actually
have
someone
preparing
a
document
and
saying
this
is
what
their
record
is
like.
This
is
what
their
home
life
is
like.
N
I
And
just
to
that,
I'm
done
with
the
questions,
but
there
I
remember
hearing
recently
that
40
of
the
people
in
Oakland
County
Jail
are
there
pre-trial
because
of
fail
right.
So
they
did
not
make
bail
and
then
there's
like
1100
people
in
Oakland,
County
Jail.
So
it's
over
400
people
are
there.
So
okay
appreciate
you.
G
You,
madam
chair,
could
we
go
back
to
slide
14,
please
for
just
a
quick
second.
G
What
I'm,
looking
at
correct
and
I
was
fascinated
by
the
slide?
Actually
so,
if
I'm,
if
I'm
looking
at
the
numbers
correctly
here,
we're
talking
about
going
from
I,
think
I
think
it's
not
correctly.
50
total
positions
currently
to
about
63
over
the
course
of
X
number
of
years,
five
years
or
whatever.
That
is
so
we're
increasing
by
five
total
positions.
But
if
I'm
adding
the
numbers
on
the
other
end,
we're
actually
coming
down
as
far
as
costs
10
to
15.
So.
Q
Q
A
perfect
example
is
the
arraignment
days
that
I
talked
about
where
we
decided
to
Paulette
a
member
of
Paulette
staff,
I'm,
paying
720
to
a
contract
attorney
to
sit
in
a
district
court
all
day
right
and
it's
an
important
job
but
they're
just
sitting
there
doing
arraignments
all
day
and
I'm,
paying
them.
720
bucks
right
versus
Paulette's
assistant,
public
defender
who's,
getting
a
salary
and
can
also
do
her
other
work.
If
she
has
a
downtime,
so
absolutely
you're,
you
get
the
nail
right
on
that.
So.
G
G
Standpoint:
yeah:
it's
not
a
staffing
crisis
or
a
compensation
crisis.
So
thank
you
for
that.
This
makes
me
super
excited.
We're
a
Furniture
crisis
yep,
so
I
appreciate
all
of
that.
So
I
guess.
My
question
to
you
is
being
that
we're
here
on
the
finance
committee
for
Budget
hearings.
What
does
your
budget
need
for
us?
I
mean
what
do
you?
What
are
you
looking
for?
What
are
we
missing?
What
do
we
need
to
do?
Yeah,
yeah,
well,.
Q
I
I
think
we're
so
unique
because
of
the
structure
of
the
grant
funding,
and
so
my
short
answer
is
quite
frankly,
nothing
I
mean
we.
We
bring
to
you
what
we
need
with
our
grant
acceptance.
Our
plan
is
to
grow
this
office
and
we're
going
to
do
that.
The
same
way
each
year
go
through
the
grant
cycle
and
make
sure
that
we
have
the
revenue
coming
in
from
the
state.
Q
A
K
Have
plenty
of
space
Oh
one
question:
why
would
they
limit
the
amount
of
case
of
an
attorney
could
handle.
Q
There
are
talks
about
tweaking
the
standard
a
little
bit,
and
this
would
be
at
the
state
level
to
put
more
weight
on
certain
cases
and
to
do
exactly
what
you're
saying
to
say:
no
we're
not
just
going
to
say
150
felonies,
we're
gonna,
say
it
depends
on
what
kind
of
case
you're
talking
about
compliance
with
standard.
Six
as
it
is
written,
is
going
to
be
a
very
unique
challenge
that
is
going
to
be
presented
Statewide
for
exactly
that
reason.
Q
So
my
hope
is
that
they
will
tweak
it
a
little
bit,
but
it
remains
to
be
seen
if
the
midc
will
actually
do
that.
This.
Q
Q
We've
made
improvements
by
Leaps
and
Bounds,
and
now
everyone
else
has
said
well
wait
a
minute,
but
historically,
as
judge
Langton
told
you
yesterday,
some
of
this
has
just
been
a
lack
of
inertia
on
the
part
of
the
system
to
say
we
really
should
be
raising
these
rates
year
over
year
and
we
shouldn't
have
left
them
stagnant
and
we
shouldn't
have
not
come
to
you
and
asked
you
for
raises
in
the
past.
Oh
and
now
that
the
midc
is
doing
all
this
now
we
need
races
and
they're
not
wrong,
but
we.
Q
B
But
I
would
say
we
should
be
compensating,
so
that
was
not
necessarily
the
right
way
to
ask
a
living
same
with.
You
know:
free
labor
and
Animal
Control
right
I
mean
there
are
things
we've
done
for
decades
that
the
right
thing
to
do
for
people
and
the
people
doing
the
jobs
is
to
pay
them?
What
they're
worth
and
recognizing
that
people
who
do
this
public
defender
work
and
so
on?
They
do
it
because
their
heart
is
in
it.
B
B
Yeah
so
honest,
the
subject
of
lawyer
pay
across
the
county
and
especially
the
the
one
that
struck
me
was
probate
where
they
were
talking
about
children
who
are
there
elderly
who
are
there
and
can't
defend
themselves
and
mentally
ill
okay,
and
so
this
these
lawyers
get
assigned
again
they're
lawyers
who
care
and
who
want
to
do
this
kind
of
work,
but
they're
not
making
anywhere
near
now.
What
some
of
the
other
attorneys
are
and
probate
said,
we're
actually
losing
people
either
to
other
departments
or
jumping
out
of
the
county
altogether
to
a
different
place.
B
So
do
you
have
some
ideas
of
where
we
should
go
or
who
we?
How
to
assemble
the
group
to
really
address
this
because
I
think
it's
real
like
do
you
all
agree
that
commissioned
that?
This
is
something
we
ought
to
be
looking
at
Okay.
O
Q
One
of
the
things
that
we're
actually
doing
in
Detroit,
District
Court
is
sort
of
a
pilot
project
is
using
the
U
of
D
Law
School
Clinic
program,
where
the
Lost
students,
under
the
supervision
of
a
professor,
are
actually
coming
in
providing
Legal
Services
to
some
of
our
Indigent
clients,
so
that
creates
a
pipeline
for
students
who,
when
they
get
out
of
school,
say
oh
my
God
I
really
might
love
energy
at
defense.
I
want
to
do
that
and
I
think
that
the
same
thing
needs
to
probably
happen
to
juvenile.
Q
The
same
thing
needs
to
happen
in
Probate
on
the
pay
issue.
Commissioner,
I
think
one
of
the
most
important
things
would
be
to
get
some
sort
of
comprehensive
survey
so
that
we
knew
okay,
what's
being
paid
at
MaComb,
for
these
cases
is
what's
being
paid
in
weight
and
what's
being
paid
in
these
other
big
counties,
we
can
easily
see
just
right
in
front
of
our
faces
that
the
number
is
less
than
the
midc
rate.
But
what
we
don't
know
is
how
it
compares
to
our
neighbors.
L
Q
We
we
don't
have
a
full
analysis
to
say:
let's
look
at
the
case
complexities,
because
even
within
our
rates
right,
we
have
staggered
rates,
we're
not
paying
you
the
same
to
represent
someone
on
a
drunk
driving
as
we
are
to
represent
someone
on
a
first
degree
murder.
So
there's
some
staggering
that
you
would
want
to
I,
in
my
opinion,
that
you
would
want
to
do
to
look
at
case
complexities
within
those
systems.
Q
Q
Stakeholders
from
the
private
bar
to
say
again,
in
my
opinion,
more
important
than
the
pay
is
the
point
because
I
what
I,
what
I
don't
want
and
what
I'm
hoping
we
won't
see
from
standard
Aid
is
a
bunch
of
lawyers
who
say:
oh
wow,
they
used
to
pay
real
bad.
Now
they
pay
great
I
want
to
go.
Do
criminal
law,
no
I,
don't
need
you
I!
Need
you
if
you're
going
to
be
passionate
about
Indigent
defense,
not
because
you
just
want
to
come,
make
a
quick
buck.
So
we
got
to
be
careful
there
too.
B
Hey
I'm,
assuming
our
panelists
are
taking
some
notes
so
after
we're
through
all
this
and
through
the
budget
process,
this
is
really
something
that
needs
to
be
discussed
and
dealt
with
over
the
next
few
months,
but
there's
a
solution
in
there
somewhere
absolutely
absolutely
kind
of
how
I
look
at
it
and
I
guess
that
is
my
last
question
or
comment
Charlie
you're
back
on
that
you
were,
you
were
all
talking
to.
I
Sort
of
got
anything
wonder
what
you
said
about
the
pipeline.
Thanks
for
your
question,
I
mean
we
did
that
with
the
child
care.
You
know
people
needing
to
become
certified.
Child
Care,
cdas,
Child,
Development
Associate,
because
you
have
to
do
that
to
be
able
to
because
we're
going
to
lose
Federal
money
for
a
head
start,
because
we
didn't
have
enough
child
care
providers.
So
there
is
precedent
there
I
guess
hanging
out
too
many
lawyers.
There's
we've
done
it
before
so
one
pipelining
stuff.
Thanks
for
giving
us
an
answer,
because
it
will.
I
Q
Totally
meant
to
say
that
to
commissioner
Markham
yeah,
that's
another
question:
if
it
were
some
of
these
areas
that
weren't
midc
funded,
obviously
the
county
would
have
to
fund
it
sure.
But
you
could
look
into
the
feasibility
of
saying
we're
going
to
have
actual
employees
because
it
may
be
cheaper
in
the
long
run
from
the
economy
of
scale
and
the
fact
that
it'll
be
cheaper
to
have
employees,
maybe
they're
supervised
by
Paulette
Maybe
by
someone
else
who
are
assigned
to
as
probate
Defenders
or
probate.
Council.
Right.
B
Right
well,
I
think
this
has
been
a
very
healthy
discussion
and
really
excited
to
hear
the
progress
that
you've
made
since
this
debt
set
up
in
the
past
couple
of
years,
and
it's
definitely
moving
in
my
view,
in
the
right
direction,
as
as
far
as
social
justice
and
treating
people
with
respect
and
making
sure
the
people
that
end
up
in
our
jail
are
the
people
that
need
to
be
there
and
so
on
so
yeah,
okay,
so
that's
it
defense
department.
Thank
you
very
much.
Thank
you.
B
B
B
B
A
G
G
M
R
K
L
K
R
Right
we
have
like
you
know
you
had
to
have
one
last
PowerPoint
out
of
it.
I've
got
one
for
you
here
and
if
I
don't
know,
if
it's
okay,
if
you
just
want
to
interrupt
with
questions
along
the
way,
it'd
be
all
right
with
us,
whatever
you
like
manage
so.
B
R
Okay,
it's
always
good
to
just
do
a
quick
reminder
of
who
we
are
and
what
we
do
say:
Oakland
County
Parks.
We
have
a
pretty
large
organization,
14,
County,
Parks
and
or
golf
courses,
80
miles
of
trails,
7,
000,
acres
and
growing,
which
includes
five
golf
courses:
two
water
parks,
two
campgrounds,
an
ORV
Park,
three
dog
parks,
two
nature
centers
Fairgrounds
and
farmers
market.
So
it's
a
wide
variety
and
there's
really
no
no
day.
R
That's
like
the
last
in
this
job
to
say:
I've,
never
thought
I
would
own
a
goat
bar
in
a
water
park,
historic
buildings
and
banquet
facilities
or
vegan
in
charge
of
them.
And
it's
a
you
know:
it's
a
widely
diverse.
You
know
just
in
terms
of
geographic
area
in
the
distances
we
have
in
this
County.
If
you
were
to
go
from
Addison
Oak
to
Lion
Oaks,
it's
an
hour
and
15
minute
drive,
you
could
drive
to
Lansing
faster
from.
R
And
we
at
any
given
day,
we
just
have
multiple
things
going
on
great
programs,
special
events,
mobile
Recreation
visits
activities
at
all
of
our
facilities.
So
it's
it's
a
great
organization
and
no
offense
the
board
best
job
I
ever
had.
R
So,
just
in
terms
of
our
Recreation
programming,
I
think
I
hope
you
were
all
familiar
with
our
mobile
Recreation
units
and
they
all
support
your
communities
any
given
year.
We
have
anywhere
from
600
to
800
unique
events
that
they
support
with
deployments
of
our
mobile
recreation
equipment
stages,
climbing
Towers,
Inflatables,
that
type
of
thing
and
a
lot
of
support
for
local
communities.
R
So
our
rap
program,
and
then
we
have
you
know
a
variety
of
other
services
and
focus
areas
from
the
special
events
we
hold
like
the
Marshmallow,
Drop
and
Fire
and
Ice
event,
Melissa's
team
that
takes
the
lead
on
planning
and
capital.
R
Grant
programs
and
they've
just
had
some
great
successes
with
some
of
the
arpa
money
getting
rolled
out
in
Hazel
Park
in
Royal,
Oak
Township
and
the
support
they
provided
to
them,
which
they
ordinarily
would
not
have
been
able
to
access
money
like
that
and
get
money
out
and
creating
new
playgrounds
and
better
spaces
and
I
think
you
all
had
a
chance
to
see
Carol
ekbo
last
year,
our
historian,
at
least
you
shared
with
his
position
and
she's
a
fantastic
asset
for
us,
and
these
are
my
bosses
and
two
of
which
are
here
so
and
not
just
because
you're
here,
I
have
to
say
thank
you
to
the
commission
for
giving
us
such
a
great
commission
to
work
for
they're,
incredibly
supportive,
dedicated
passionate,
and
we
just
we
couldn't
ask
for
a
better
commission
to
work
for
and
work
with,
and
it's
a
it's
a
great
diverse
group
of
people
and
you
know
pushing
us
in
a
New
Direction,
which
is
very
positive.
A
R
And
you
know
we
have
this
slogan-
that
we've
long
used
great
parts
for
great
people,
but
really
the
reality
that
I've
learned
in
this
job
is.
It
takes
a
lot
of
great
people
to
make
great
Parks
possible,
and
we
are
just
very
fortunate
to
have
some
tremendous
folks
that
are,
you
know,
dedicated
I
call
them
a
bunch
of
macgyvers.
Really
they
find
ways
to
get
things
done,
stretch
the
resources
as
far
as
possible,
they've
struggled
through
periods
of
time
when
Parts
was
really
underfunded.
R
You
know
having
to
come
in
during
the
pandemic
and
work
through
that
period
of
time
maintain
the
parks
we
have.
Some
of
the
struggles
like
I
know.
You
all
have
talked
with
animal
control
about
the
trustees.
We
lost
the
trustees
too.
They
were
providing
Grounds,
Maintenance
and
assistance
with
maintaining
our
facilities
as
well.
R
So
we've
had
to
fill
in
those
gaps,
postcode,
626
potential,
seasonal
staff
positions
and
that,
in
terms
of
how
many
we
actually
filled-
and
it
varies
depending
on
our
success
rate
of
hiring
we've
had
quite
a
you
know-
a
nice
bounce
back
in
the
last
year,
I've
been
able
to
restore
a
lot
of
services
that
were
pulled
back
during
you
know
the
height
of
the
pandemic
in
the
worst
stages
of
it
labor
market
shortage
and
that's
been
in
many
ways.
Thanks
to
some
compensation
increases
that
helped
us
be
more
competitive.
R
The
incentives
and
bonuses
that
we've
been
able
to
offer
to
attract
a
seasonal
staff-
and
you
know
some
support-
I-
want
to
give
some
kudos
to
the
human
resource
department
in
suniel
director.
You
know
we
struggle
a
bit
because
we
are
so
different
than
the
rest
of
County
government,
we're
really
more
akin
to
a
service
industry
type
of
employer
with
you
know,
large
turnover
and
large
volume
of
hiring
a
lot
of
high
school
and
college
students,
and
then
people
on
the
other
end
of
the
scale
too.
R
So
older
folks,
that
are
you
know,
many
of
which
work
at
our
golf
courses,
and
so
our
County
HR
process
have
been
a
little
bit
difficult
for
us
to
navigate
into
you
know
to
bring
people
through
the
hiring
process
onboarding
process
in
a
timely
fashion.
So
we
we
have
lost
people
sort
of
to
attrition
as
that
time
period
takes
so
much
longer
than
the
reality
of
the
modern
world
of
you
know.
R
Nowadays
you
can
get
on
an
app
and
decide
whether
you
want
to
work
today
or
not,
and
so
a
six
week
period
of
time
from
applications
to
employment
with
a
lot
of
Hoops
in
between
it's.
It's
not.
It
puts
us
in
a
competitive
disadvantage
in
terms
of
labor
market.
So
HR
has
been
really
helpful
in
starting
to
address
those
things
and
work
through
as
many
of
those
pain
points
as
we
possibly
can.
You
know
it's
always
going
to
be
an
issue
because
we
are
so
very
different
than
the
rest
of
the
County
Government.
R
Okay,
so
just
to
highlight
the
the
points
I
want
to
cover
today,
our
Parks
Commission
have
adopted
four
core
values
that
inform
all
the
decisions
we
make
at
the
priorities
we
make
and
the
how
we
use
our
budgeted
funds,
diversity,
Equity
inclusion,
health
and
wellness,
natural
resources,
stewardship
environmental
sustainability,
organizational
excellence
and
fiscal
responsibility
and
I
will
go
over
some
of
our
Urban.
Parkland
expansions
have
been
possible
with
the
arpa
funding.
R
The
spending
that
we're
doing
to
address
long-delayed
maintenance
in
facility
improvements,
the
staffing
issues
in
the
in
the
impact
on
our
salary
and
costs
and
budget,
and
just
a
quick
overview
of
our
Capital
grants
and
stewardship
programs
I'm
going
to
hand
it
over
to
Jim
great.
Thank
you
Chris.
This
is
one
of
our
great
examples
of
excellent
Park
staff.
Gym
started
as
a
high
schooler.
R
K
H
Years
so,
oh
my
God
been
incredible
and
you
know
I'm
just
going
to
give
you
a
couple
of
highlights
of
some
of
our
diversity.
Equity
inclusion,
the
program
that
we
did.
We
actually
did
a
pilot
program.
Last
year
we
worked
at
the
city
of
Pontiac
and
we
put
40
kids
through
the
program
and
we're
able
to
do
a
celebration
at
the
end.
Well,
this
year
we've
really
stepped
up
our
game
and
we've
provided
lessons
for
135
kids.
H
So
we're
super
excited
I'm
super
proud
of
the
kids
that
you
know
came,
and
there
were
some
days
that
you
know
they
were
very
hesitant
to
get
in
the
water,
but
you
could
see
their
confidence
fill
it
each
day
as
they
went
through
that
program,
and
it
was
a
four-day
program.
I
actually
eight
days
four
days
each
week
and
it
was
super.
H
It
was
amazing,
just
even
our
staff
and
we've
got
a
lot
of
great
thank
yous
and
and
the
end
of
the
at
the
end
of
the
time
they
would
bring
their
families
back
and
go
swimming
with
them
at
the
water
parks
and
stuff.
A
really
a
great
program
I'm
glad
we're
able
to
do
that.
Another
program
that
I
think
started
about
10
years
ago.
This
is
a
highlight
for
health
and
wellness
is
our
Riverwalk,
but
it
started
about
10
years
ago
and
each
year
is
really
picked
up.
H
We
end
up
with
waiting
lists
for
this
program,
and
people
really
enjoy
it.
It's
ages,
15
and
over
so
you'll,
see
a
lot
of
you
know
kid
older
kids
in
in
their
parents
and
their
in
their
families
to
come
out
and
do
this
it's
a
great
program.
We
usually
do
it
after
the
water
park
closes,
so
that
it's
usually
about
an
hour
long
and
it
runs
four
days
a
week
in
the
summer,
so
we
just
wrap
it
up.
I.
Think
yesterday,
just
I
think
it
was.
H
Two
days
ago
we
received
award
from
the
2023
Planet
Michigan
Green
community
landscape
beautification
award.
So
that's
our
stewardship
and
sustainability.
I,
don't
know
if
you've
been
to
Waterford
Oaks,
but
the
native
plants
that
they
put
out
in
our
landscape
are
just
incredible.
You
can
really
see
the
colors
right
now.
I,
don't
know
lots
of
different
pollinators.
It's
just!
It's
just
amazing
that
we're
able
to
do
that
really
reduce
our
staff
costs
in
managing
and
we're
not.
B
H
I'm
really
proud
of
one
of
our
staff,
our
Recreation
Supervisor
Sandy
Dory.
She
was
able
to
start
a
program,
it
actually
started
during
covid
and
it's
called
disability
dirt
day.
So
it's
we're
able
to
take
people
with
disabilities
out
in
the
RV
park,
and
we've
got
a
lot
of
people
that
support
us
that
they
come
out
and
get
involved.
H
Now
we
did
it
once
the
first
year
that
we
did
it
and
now
we're
doing
it
for
four
times
a
year
and
we've
got
great
turnouts.
We've
got
another
one
coming
up,
I
think
in
two
weeks,
so
we're
looking
forward
to
but
Sandy
Dory
was
going
to
receive
an
achievement
award,
which
is
we're
super
proud
of
her.
For
that
too.
So.
R
Okay
back
to
the
boring
budget
stuff,
so
just
a
big,
quick
snapshot
of
our
revenues.
We
are
primarily
supported
by
a
voter,
approved
property
tax,
millage,
67
percent
of
our
our
total
budget
and
about
32
are
user
fees,
primarily
golf
campgrounds,
water
parks
and
vehicle
permits,
and
so
just
in
terms
of
expenditures.
R
Big
picture
wise,
not
surprisingly,
salaries
is
a
pretty
large
expense
salaries
in
French
and
our
operating
expenses
to
maintain
our
facilities
and
keep
them
keep
the
lights
on
the
38
of
our
our
budget,
and
we
we
have
a
little
bit
of
a
unique
situation
there,
because
we
are
fully
self-sustaining.
We
need
to
plan
for
a
surplus
every
year,
so
we
could
put
money
back
into
the
piggy
bank
to
pay
for
our
capital
projects.
R
So
so
we
have
a
1.9
million
dollar
budgeted
Surplus
this
year.
I
also
have
this
unique
situation
because
we're
a
proprietary
fund
that
we
have
to
budget
for
depreciation,
which
is
not
a
cash
expense.
It
is
basically
a
you
know,
it
shows
in
the
budget,
but
then,
at
the
end
of
the
year
it
gets
wiped
out.
So
it
somewhat
inflates
our
budget
picture
artificially.
R
R
I
wanted
to
give
you
a
little
bit
of
a
picture
of
our
long-term
financials,
especially
heading
into
the
approval
of
the
village.
Just
really,
this
paints
a
picture
of
how
very
important
that
increase
was
to
the
Future
and
the
viability
and
stability
of
Oakland
County
Parks.
If
you
look
at
FY
14
through
19
every
year
was
an
operating
deficit
in
order
to
keep
you
know
our
budget
afloat
and
at
the
same
time
our
savings
account
was
going
down.
R
So,
as
anybody
knows
it's
you
know,
funding
their
checking
account
out
of
their
savings
account
and
delaying
maintenance
on
their
their
their
house
or
their
facilities.
It
catches
up
to
and
you
get
into
this
fiscal
downward
spiral
and
as
we
were
disinvesting
in
some
of
our
facilities,
we
were
losing
Revenue
even
more
so
it
was
accelerating.
So
this
has
been
an
enormous
benefit
to
us
and
it's
allowed
us
to
start
to
catch
back
up
again.
R
R
And
just
a
reminder
of
that
millage.
So,
of
course,
as
I
said,
we
reverse
the
long-term
trend
of
deficits
and
budget
reductions
and
curations
on
assets
and
as
a
result,
we
have
tripled
our
annual
spending
on
Capital
Improvements
equipment
and
natural
resources
management
as
well.
As
you
know,
a
new
priority.
We've
put
quite
a
lot
of
resources
into.
We
have
dedicated
so
far
since
the
Millers
just
passed.
R
1.8
million
dollars
to
our
local
Park
and
trail
Improvement,
Grants
and
Melissa
will
open
those
real,
quick,
400
000
into
Community
natural
resources,
stewardship
projects,
a
lot
of
invasive
species,
control
and
Restoration
in
the
natural
environment.
We've
increased
our
spending
on
mobile
Recreation
and
special
events,
and
during
the
first
few
years
of
the
decade
we
were
able
to
build
up.
R
10
million
dollars
in
our
our
net
position
is
essentially
our
fund,
balance
of
which
we
are
and
taking
about
half
to
fulfill
Our
obligation
with
the
arpa
program
that
you
all
approved
to
provide
matching
funds.
R
R
R
And
you
know
this
has
been
a
historic
wonderful
thing.
This
is
our
Healthy
Communities
plan.
R
You
approved
2007
the
Oakland
County
Board
agreed
to
accept
Catalpa
Oaks
as
really
our
first
urban
park
in
our
Park
system,
and
in
that
resolution,
I
was
looking
at
committed
to
a
new
Urban
Park
initiative,
yeah
that
kind
of
paused
and
stopped
right
there
and
now
we're
beginning
to
really
fulfill
that
commitment
with
these
facilities
that
are
coming
online,
doing
the
Partnerships
that
we
have
reached
and
your
approval
of
our
agreements
with
Oak,
Park
and
Pontiac,
and
we
hope
to
get
Southfield
done
pretty
quick
here
and
then
start
focusing
getting
on
the
job
done.
R
We
at
Pontiac
Oaks
the
future
Pontiac
Oaks,
which
is
now
Hawthorne
Park
right
up.
The
road
here
that
agreement
was
approved
in
June
within
two
weeks:
Jim
and
the
staff
were
there
cleaning
up
the
park,
and
you
can
really
start
to
see
the
impact.
It's
incredible.
Yeah,
it's
incredible,
and
by
the
end
of
the
Fall
we
should
have
the
long
shuttered
bathrooms
reopened,
badly
deteriorated
fishing,
pier
replaced
early
spring,
we'll
have
some
new
playground
equipment
out
there,
and
hopefully
you
know
late
fall
next
year,
we'll
be
celebrating
fully
rededication
of
the
park.
R
B
Yeah,
these
are
facilities
that,
for
so
long
have
just
declined
right
and
they
got
overgrown
and
Hawthorne
Park
I've
heard
some
not
really
great
things
about
dumping.
That's
been
there
for
years
and
I
I,
don't
know
about
the
rest
to
you,
but
I'm
really
grateful
to
be
part
of
all
of
this,
that
the
money
is
available,
that
we
get
to
help,
decide
how
it's
going
to
help
and
that
we're
actually
putting
money
into
communities
and
parks
and
other
features
that
have
needed
it
for
so
long
and
everybody
was
like
well.
B
How
are
we
are
going
to
be
able
to
afford
that?
To
have
this
money
come
to
us
and
everybody
be
real
smart
about
it
right
away.
This
is
our
priorities
here.
We
all
have
these
lists.
If
we
ever
had
any
money
here
are
the
things
we
want
to
do.
This
is
my
little
soapbox
I'm
just
really
grateful
to
be
able
to
be
part
of
that.
So.
R
We
thank
you
for
your
support
and
I
believe
what
the
investment
of
the
arbor
money
is.
What
made
this
all
come
together
and
we've
got
some.
You
know
great
Partnerships
with
these
local
governments
as
well.
What
we're
doing
is
a
little
outside
the
box
in
terms
of
you
know,
taking
over
the
management
of
local
parks,
so
we're
we're
navigating
that
as
best
we
can.
We
have
a
bunch
of
public
info
forums
if
you're
interested
next
week
at
at
the
park,
we've
got
a
couple
of
family
fun.
R
Free
events
too,
just
start
to
gather
up
public
engagement
and
feedback
on
what
they'd
like
to
see
at
the
park
in
the
future,
so
lots
of
great
stuff
happening.
There
number
one
expense
in
our
operating
budget
salaries
as
I
mentioned,
and
we
have
had
some
increases
in
terms
of
salaries.
R
I
think
you
probably
have
heard
that
from
all
of
the
Departments
that
have
been
before
you
just
the
general
salary
increases
that
have
been
approved
over
the
last
several
years
are
accumulating,
but
we've
also
had
to,
if
create
some
incentive
programs
that
have
come
with
the
cost,
to
be
able
to
restore
services
and
attract
seasonal
staff.
And
you
know,
frankly,
we
had
some
chronically
underfunded
under
under
waged
compensated
jobs,
especially
in
our
front
line.
R
Type
jobs
are
our
skilled,
laborers
and
folks
that
keep
our
park
operations
going
and
didn't
have
the
in-house
staff
to
do
natural
resources
management
like
we're
able
to
do
now.
So
some
of
the
millage
money
is
being
put
to
use
with
human
capital.
That
is
allowing
us
to
do
much
more
and
do
it
better.
But
it's
always
something
we're
mindful
of
not
allowing
us
to
get
ahead
of
ourselves,
because
we
can't
come
to
you
and
ask
for
general
fund
dollars.
P
Melissa
yeah,
so
another
way
we're
working
with
our
local
communities
is
through
two
Grant
programs
that
we've
started
in
the
last
couple
of
years.
The
first
is
our
Community
Park
and
trail
Capital
grant
program,
so
we
have
awarded
a
little
over
a
million
dollars
in
2022,
because
that
was
21
and
22
money
combined
and
then
650
000,
just
a
few
months
ago
to
our
local
communities
for
a
really
a
wide
variety
of
things.
The
ask
this
year
was
close
to
two
million
dollars
and
we
only
had
652
Awards.
P
P
So
it's
been
a
really
good
combination
of
new
park
development
parks
that
didn't
maybe
have
anything
in
the
first
place,
kind
of
getting
developed
and
getting
opened
and
a
lot
of
renovation
and
replacement
a
lot
of
fixing
things
that
are
broken
or
old
or
not
accessible
and
bringing
them
up
to
to
where
they
need
to
be.
So,
that's
been
really
fun
to
see
and
work
with
the
communities
on
that
the
grants
they
do
have
three
years
to
complete
the
projects.
P
The
other
program
is
our
natural
resources.
Stewardship
grant
program
focuses
on
climate,
resiliency,
green
infrastructure,
biodiversity
and
habitat
restoration.
So
you
know
these
fund
invasive
species,
projects
native
plantings,
interpretation
and
education,
lots
of
brush
installation
to
get
this
invasive
species
off
your
boots.
Before
you
leave
the
park
and
a
lot
of
natural
Community
restoration.
P
P
So,
just
a
couple
of
examples
of
some
of
the
community
projects,
some
really
cool
playgrounds
in
Auburn,
Hills
and
Birmingham,
a
sketch
of
what's
to
come
at
Wilson
Park
in
Ferndale,
the
Oxford
Farmers
Market
Pavilion
was
funded
out
of
this
program
and
then
just
an
example
of
our
natural
resources
programs.
This
is
our
staff
out
in
the
traffic
Islands
in
Clawson,
swapping
out
the
landscaping
for
Native
plantings.
A
R
Just
to
summarize,
these
are
some
of
the
things
that
are
kind
of
on
our
mind
is
Big
Picture
issues
and
challenges
and
opportunities.
Rising
costs
the
inflationary
pressures
compensation
increases.
You
know
matched
with
the
limited
potential
for
Revenue
growth
at
some
of
our
facilities.
We
have
goals
that
we
set
to
try
to
reach
levels
of
financial
self-sustaining
operations.
R
Fortunately,
we've
made
some
changes
to
our
golf
fees
and
operations
last
couple
years.
So
now
we
finally
have
reached
a
point
where
golf
is
supporting
itself.
I
think
it's
probably
the
first
time
in
many
many
years
that
that's
been
the
case.
Our
water
parks
are
very
challenging
in
terms
of
you
know,
making
the
finances
work.
The
labor
situation
has
been
particularly
difficult.
I
know
you
all
have
heard
about
lifeguard
shortages,
that's
a
nationwide
problem.
We
have
bounce
back
and
we
were
able
to
open.
When
did
we
open
a
early
June
this
year?
R
And
then,
unfortunately,
then
the
weather
didn't
really
cooperate,
so
you
know
that
it
kind
of
folds
into
the
next
issue,
which
is
really
resilience
for
extreme
and
unpredictable
weather,
and
you
know
we're
seeing
that,
like
everyone
is,
of
course,
but
we're
in
the
outdoor
recreation
business,
so
it
does
kind
of
hit
home
with
us,
so
it
you
know,
has
reduced
the
number
of
operating
days
in
some
of
our
facilities.
R
Thinking
through
we've
never
had
a
situation
where
there
was
hazardous
air
quality
before
and
then
just
digging
it
through
for
our
Workforce,
that
is
out
in
the
field.
Don't
have
the
option
of
putting
a
mask
and
going
inside.
You
know
it's.
It's
caused
us
to
start
to
begin
to
think
about
procedures
how
to
handle
this,
how
to
get
the
word
out
to
employees
all
throughout
the
county
and
all
of
our
locations.
R
You
know
an
extreme
heat
and
flooding
all
of
these
things
are
on
our
minds,
and
so
we
need
to
adapt
and
we
need
to
adapt
our
facilities
in
order
to
deal
with
the
realities
of
the
world,
as
we
know
it
now
and
where
we're
going.
You
know:
we've
made
some
gains
in
in
terms
of
supporting
the
County's
carbon
emission
and
sustainability
goals.
This
year
we
are
buying
our
first
robotic,
fully
electric
mower
and
piloting
it
out
and
line
Oaks.
R
It's
one
thing:
if
you're
talking
to
your
legislators,
it
would
be
great.
You
know,
they've
put
a
lot
of
funding
into
EB
charging
and
into
electric
vehicles,
but
there
isn't
any
funding.
We
can
identify
for
things
like
landscaping,
equipment
and-
and
there
could
be
incredible
gains
there
if
we
were
able
to
to
access
some
funding
support
from
the
federal
or
state
government
yeah
a
labor
market
competition
already
been
through
that
in
providing
Equitable
Services
and
reaching
all
the
taxpayers
who
support
us
local
County
Parks.
R
Turtle
Woods
is
kind
of
the
next
one
beyond
arpa
that
we
hope
to
add
to
our
Park
system
family
in
Northern,
Troy,
beautiful
and
developed
area
there.
That
would
be
you
know.
Nice
nature
preserved
addition
to
our
Park
system.
If
we're
successful
with
the
DNR
and
getting
them
funding
for
acquisition.
B
G
You
enough,
thank
you
good
great
presentation,
I
think
we
all
love
Parks
living
in
Novi,
I'll,
be
honest.
I
haven't
had
a
chance
to
check
out
too
many
of
them.
I
have
gone
to
Red
Oaks
and
the
one
down
the
street
here
phenomenal
both
of
them.
We
took
the
kids
actually
for
employee
day
or
staff
day
and
they
absolutely
loved
it.
So
I
can't
tell
you
how
much
we
appreciated
I
thought
it
was
well
staffed.
Everybody
was
a
professional,
just
blown
away,
I
didn't
even
realize.
G
Oakland
County
had
a
facility
like
that
and
then
just
kind
of
the
the
professionalism
that
we
saw
from
everybody,
including
the
lifeguards,
was
really
fantastic.
So
just
wanted
to
give
you
a
plug
and
a
and
a
shout
out
nice.
G
You
know
Chris,
you
and
I
have
been
talking.
I
would
love
to
see
eventually
something
come.
Our
way
you
know
selfishly
like
in
the
southwest
part
of
the
county.
I
know
we're
talking
about
it.
Thinking
about
it,
I
just
wanted
to
fish,
should
put
it
on
record
and
I'm
hoping
something
like
that
is
coming
at
some
point,
but
you
did
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
addition
of
the
new
park
space.
You
know
on
these
new
initiatives
and
things
like
that
going
on.
G
Do
you
envision
the
need
for
some
additional
Staffing
or
maintenance
or
and
is
that
all
sort
of
budgeted
in
I
know
you're,
self-funded
and
sort
of
your
own
machine?
If
you
will,
but
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that's
taken
into
account.
Yeah.
R
R
We
we
have
put
together
a
game
plan
there.
That's
pretty
Limited
in
terms
of
expense
comparable
to
other
facilities,
so
almost
are
very
passive.
Recreation
facilities,
they're
not
going
to
require
a
lot
of
daily
Staffing
on
seasonal
employment,
mostly
just
maintenance,
maintenance
and
cleaning
up
the
garbage
and
that
that
type
of
thing,
so
you
know,
I,
think
we
came
up
with
somewhere
between
350
to
500
000,
with
all
of
the
for
Park
editions,
plus
Turtle
Woods
coming
in
the
future,
which
is
not
an
insignificant
amount.
R
But
you
know
we
are
being
mindful
of
not
taking
on
too
much
expense
as
far
as
that's
concerned,
and
because,
from
our
perspective,
it's
a
it's
a
worthwhile
investment
in
order
to
expand
our
reach
to
communities
where
we
felt
like
they've,
been
neglected
and
have
a
decent
case
to
make
right
right.
Absolutely.
G
I
did
also
want
to
thank
you
for
the
grant
program
you
mentioned
that
I
know,
commissioner
long
and
I
had
Bicentennial
Park.
We
just
got
a
hundred
thousand
dollars
for
Commerce,
so
that
was
phenomenal
as
well.
So
thank
you
for
that,
but
I
guess.
My
only
last
question
is
be
that
you're
self-sustaining.
It
gives
us
very
little
to
to
worry
about
or
really
consider
is
there
anything
from
a
budgetary
or
Finance
perspective
that
is
on
the
wish
list
or
want
list
that
you
feel
like
is
missing
or
something
more
that
you
could.
R
We'll
always
take
more
money.
Well,
let
me
say
you
know
I,
think
we're
seeing
in
a
lot
of
climate
issues
impacting
the
world
right
now,
it's
actually
potentially
a
benefit
to
Oakland
County.
They
say
that
Michigan
is
going
to
be
one
of
the
number
one
climate
Refuge
destinations
and
you
think
about
Oakland
County's
strengths
and
the
number
of
lakes
and
fresh
water
that
we
have
in
the
county
that
this
could
be
something
while
unfortunate
overall,
something
we
could
lead
into
quite
a
bit.
R
So
there
is
no
end
to
laudable
excellent
Investments
that
could
be
made
in
Recreation
and
even
Beyond
Recreation,
and
some
of
these
other
areas
where
we
have
you
know,
increased
our
footprint
like
invasive
species
control
and
tree
canopy,
all
of
those
things.
R
So,
if
you're
asking
me
a
wish,
you
know
I
would
love
it
if
we
could
think
about
maybe
putting
another
ballot
initiative
on
the
ballot
that
could
allow
us
to
really
step
up
the
Investments
that
we're
making
in
these
areas,
I
think
there's
tremendous
evidence
that
their
the
public
is
very
supportive
of
it.
You
know
our
increased
millage
passed
by
almost
the
exact
same
amount.
M
A
lot
of
this
as
I
was
talking
with
Chris
Long
about
we
feel
very
close
to
and
familiar
with
so
great.
Thank
you
for
mentioning
Southfield
Oaks
and
it's
you
know:
infancy,
Oak,
Park,
Woods,
I'll,
throw
Turtle
Woods
in
there
also,
and
just
a
thank
you
for
listening
when
we
visited
the
north
parks
and
I
just
was
like
this
is
amazing.
These
are
amazing.
Now,
where
are
they
south
of
M59?
And
you
know
you
really
jumped
in
and
listened
to
that
and
have
really
made
huge
strides.
I
could
even
think
about
grants.
M
I
think
it
may
be
what
you
were
talking
about
where
Royal
Oak
Township
has
even
been
a
benefactor
of
some
playscapes,
and
you
know
so.
That's
awesome.
Awesome
keep
up
the
good
work.
You
answered
my
question
about
HR
and
the
seasonal
staff.
It
sounds
like
you're
figuring
out
how
to
get
rid
of
that
bottleneck,
so
that's
great,
and
if
we
need
to
have,
if
you
need
us
to
advocate
for
you,
you
know
how
to
reach
all
of
us
and
we'd
be
happy
to
do
that.
M
Commissioner,
Ramen
mentioned
have
not
having
not
seen
those
Northern
Parks.
You
know
Jim
was
kind
enough
to
tote
us
around.
You
know
when
we
did
our
tour,
so
perhaps
we
could
put
something
yeah
and.
M
That
foliage
change
coming
soon.
Perhaps
we
could
even
squeeze
it
in
this
year
yeah
and
then
last
but
not
least,
we.
M
That
yeah
yeah
last
point
I
wanted
to
make
was
if
it's,
okay,
that
I
mentioned
about
Catalpa
Oaks
Pavilion
I,
wanted
to
make
sure
my
Commissioners
were
pissing
out
September
18th
at
5
30
at
Catalpa
Oaks,
where
we
will
be
renaming
The
Pavilion
after
Senator
Vincent
Gregory,
who
was
very
instrumental
you'll,
hear
all
about
it.
Desiree
Stansfield
and
on
your
team.
M
No
stone
unturned,
I
mean
she's
thought
of
everything,
we're
so
grateful
for
her.
So
if
your
schedules
can
permit,
please
come
out
it'll
be
worth
your
time
and
that's
September
18th
5
30.,
we'll
send
out
some
invites
so
that
everyone
knows,
but
just
want
to
shout
out
the
Gregory
family
and
their
impact
to
Catalpa.
K
You
I
have
a
question:
is
there
still
conversation
about
moving
the
farmer's
market
to
Pontiac.
R
You
know
well,
I
would
say
it's
it's
a
little
bit
then
on
pause,
the
third
variable
with
the
Phoenix
Center
project,
it
also
kind
of
entered
the
conversation,
and
we
know
there's
still
much
to
be
decided
and
developed
with
that.
I
would
have
just
kind
of
put
it
on
pause
and
we've
put
there.
Initially.
This
was
a
initiated
by
a
developer
of
a
project.
That's
planned
for
downtown
we've
kind
of
put
the
ball
in
his
court
to
come
to
us
with
a
more
detailed
proposal.
R
So
our
commission
can
actually,
you
know,
assess
the
costs
and
the
impact.
So
it's
it's
in
discussion
Bob,
but
it's
it
hasn't
really
moved
very
far
and
you
know
we
have
been
surveying
and
talking
to
our
vendors
I
think
it's
safe
to
say
that
they'd
like
to
stay
where
the
rag,
as
opposed
to
moving
with
the
picture
that
we
at
least
could
give
them.
As
of
now.
Okay,.
K
Next
question:
you
know
how
I
feel
about
government
competing
with
free
enterprise
and
I
discovered
that
you
guys
are
running
a
barn
and
Springfield
Oaks
store
people's
motorhomes
and
boats.
I.
Don't
agree
with
that,
so
that
that's.
H
R
If
that's
a
20
I
might
say
probably
about
ten
thousand
dollars
that
your
share,
that's
what
they
paid.
It
was
it's
part
of
their
essentially
lease
payment
to
utilize,
the
fairgrounds.
That's
part
of
our
our
agreement
with
them.
Yeah.
Are
you
sure
the
parking
income.
K
I,
just
don't
agree
with
them
competing
with
free
enterprise.
Just
like
you
know,
you
have
a
private
company
who
pays
property
tax.
That's
why
you
know
how
I
feel
about
golf
courses
and
I
probably
said
this
before
the
Pontiac
Country
Club
pay
if
they
sell
their
hot
dogs
and
tee
off
time
and
beers
for
all
the
same
price,
they're
upside
down
before
they
take
in
a
Dollar
by
Price,
75
or
100
gram,
because
they
pay
property
taxes.
I
R
L
L
K
E
R
A
R
All
right,
commissioner,
so
we
have
a
barn
house
that
is,
ironically,
the
most
popular,
most
successful
event
venue
we
have
yet
we
have
some
very
nice
large
banquet
facilities
that
are
attached
to
our
golf
courses
that
we
have
struggled
over
many
many
years
to
achieve
these
minimal
Financial
expectations
at
lion.
Oaks
is
one
with
one
of
the
400
some
seating
there,
it's
a
beautiful
it's.
R
The
last
time
it
was
led
out
for
the
catering
contract,
only
one
company
was
responsible
or
responsive
and
they
were
really
happy
with
very
minimal
bookings.
They
could
make
a
profit
and
it's
something
we
really
struggle
with
keep
trying
to
think
of
different
ways
to
approach
it.
You
know
creative
things,
I've
talked
to
the
I
talked
to
the
guy
that
owns
the
Detroit
ax
about
the
individual.
You
know
opening
a
facility
and
one
of
our
places
we
talked
to
Carl's.
R
O
Thank
you.
Three
things
just
follow
up
on,
commissioner
Rahman
about
Southwest
part
of
the
millage
was
trails
and
I
know
in
Pocket
parts
and
I
know.
Soft
line
did
pocket
parks
and
you're
on
Valley
Trail
they've
got
a
nobody's,
got
an
awesome
trail
that
you
can
work
with.
That's
it's
part
of
the
villages
to
encourage
the
trails
of
the
group.
So
so
that's
one
two
with
the
Phoenix.
O
You
mentioned
the
Phoenix
Center,
the
Pontiac
at
the
race
Grant,
where
I
think
they're
going
to
connect
the
trails
around
yeah,
eight
or
ten
million
dollars
a
grand.
It's
going
to
be
right
along
the
new
properties.
So
will
you
cooperate
and
you
know
I
mean
yeah
I
mean
and
I
mean
they
want.
They
want
to
make
green
and
walkable
Park
area
by
the
Ottawa.
Towers.
Is
that
many
gonna
the
Trail's
gonna
come
through
now.
R
You
know
the
Regional
Trail
management
is
actually
done
under
Economic
Development,
so
we
we
tend
to
get
pulled
in
under
our
grant
program,
rather
than
being
more
of
a
proactive
part
of
the
conversation,
but
we
did
support
the
last
Clinton
River
Trail
project
that
came
through
that
was
partially
arpa
funded.
They
had
a
funding
Gap
that
we
filled
in
through
our
you
know.
Our
special
projects
fund.
O
R
The
way
we
are
designated
is
really
more
meant
for
something
like
a
sewer
and
water
fund
where
the
fees
pay
for
the
you
know
the
upkeep
of
the
infrastructure,
whereas,
as
you
saw,
we
are
67
supported
by
a
millage,
so
it
just
paints
a
skewed
picture
and
it
takes
money
off
the
table
that
we
could
be
spending
to
improve
Recreation
artificially
right.
So.
R
Yeah
we've
been
working
with
the
administration,
there's
no
action
right
now,
but
something
we
hope
to
accomplish.
Okay,
okay,
thank.
R
L
R
I
R
Well,
that
goes
back
to
some
history.
I'm
not
fully
familiar
I,
think
that
maybe
10
years
ago
plus
it
was
separated
out
and
brought
under
Economic
Development,
and
we
we
work
well
with
with
the
team
over
there.
We're
happy
to
be
involved
in
more
whatever
war
in
the
County.
Administration
wants
us
to
be
involved
in,
and
we
have
kind
of
branched
a
little
bit
into
these
areas
and
we
haven't
passed
a
Nine
Mile
feasibility
study
and
Melissa
can
speak
to
that.
R
If
you'd,
like
you
know,
we,
we
provide
some
matching
funding
with
semca
to
to
bring
the
communities
along
Nine
Mile
from
Farmington
over
to
Hazel
Park,
together
to
start
the
process
of
thinking
about
what
a
green
whale
a
Greenway
or
you.
R
I
Yeah,
so
is
there
any
I
mean
like
if
I
guess
would
more
or
less
money
be
going
to
Trails?
If
something
was.
R
P
R
More
coordination,
so
Mental
Health
Community
supply
for
Grants
and
help
pull
together.
You
know
the
groups
that
are
supporting
the
different
trails.
R
We
don't
have
endless
supplies
of
funding,
sure
you
know,
as
must
have
mentioned,
and
we
had
two
million
dollars
in
great
applications
for
local
grants.
But
then
we
also
have
to
kind
of
balance
that
exactly
because
we
can't
come
to
you
and
say
hey,
we
need
more
money
yeah.
So
we've
tried
to
limit
our
our
overall
agreement.
G
R
B
Yeah
yeah,
okay.
What,
commissioner,
is
that
it
good?
Okay
I
had
a
couple
of
things
so
thinking
about
in
our
end
of
the
world
where
there
is
no
County
Park
except
lion
Oaks,
which
is
way
the
heck
out
there.
But
you
know-
and
it's
specifically
it
is
growing
and
there's
more
there
than
just
a
golf
10
hours,
which
is
great
yeah.
A
R
I
think
we
found
a
way
to
kind
of
break
the
the
problem.
That's
always
kind
of
how
local,
accounting
and
Parks
back,
because
there's
the
land
isn't
really
available
in
these
more
developed
parts
of
the
county,
and
it's
always
been
the
reason
why
you
know
the
park
land
had
been
expanded
and
built
upon
in
the
North
End
of
the
counties,
but
we
have
a
lot
of
great
parks
in
other
areas
of
the
county
and
often
in
communities
that
are
bearing
in
pretty
sizable
amount
of
the
financial
burden
of
having
providing
Recreation.
R
Whereas
you
know
we
provide
support
to
like
I
feel
like
Independence
Township,
where
independent
folks
is
really.
You
know
it's
incredibly
popular
and
well
utilized
by
the
residents
of
Independence
Township.
So
it
would
be
great
if
we
could
over
time
expand
our
footprint
to
be
more
present.
Communities
like
Novi,
Farmington
Hills
is
another.
We
have
a
golf
course
there,
but
not
a
Park.
Rochester
Hills
is
another.
R
It
would
be
great.
Material
Woods
comes
online
because
Troy
is
one
I,
think
the
largest
community
in
the
county
and
does
not
currently
have
a
park.
You
know
we'd
like
to
like
to
be
everywhere:
it's
all
about
financing
and
figuring
out
how
to
do
it,
but
partnering
with
local
government
seems
to
be
the
way
to
make
it
happen,
and
we
started
those
conversations
with
Novi
comment,
something
I
know
and
I'm
hopeful
that
things
are
going
to
go
in
a
positive
direction.
There
you're.
B
Right
about
there
not
being
a
lot
of
Green
Space
out
there,
four
Parks
I
mean
I,
appreciate
the
Forward
Thinking
of
the
people
50
years
ago
did
set
aside
some
of
this
stuff
because
we
know
they'd
be
some
of
them
would
be
a
million
dollar
homes
around
a
private
Lake
and
instead
they're
public
County
Parks,
and
that's
really
important
to
me,
because
access
should
be
for
everybody.
B
But
I
would
like
to
keep
those
conversations
going.
I
mean
out
on
the
Southwest
end,
we're
talking
about
either
Phil's
District
or
Christine's
or
ajays
or
mine
somewhere
in
there
there's
got
to
be
a
pony.
You
know
some
piece
of
property
or
some
Park
that
would
benefit
by
becoming
part
of
a
county
park
system
and
I
really
want
to
see
that
continue.
I
have
a
specific
Trail.
B
I
would
like
to
see
really
seriously
looked
at
and
we've
talked
about
it,
the
residents
where
I
am
and
in
AJ's
District
they'd
like
to
be
able
to
ride
their
bike
around
Walled,
Lake
right
third
biggest
lake
in
Oakland
County.
You
can't,
you
literally
cannot
walk
around
it
or
ride
a
bike
around
it.
B
Without
you
know
stumbling
and
that
sort
of
thing
and
the
piece
of
it
that
is
not
constructed
and
doesn't
have
roads
on
it
is
actually
an
old
road
from
back
in
the
1910s
20s
that
ran
along
the
west
side
of
of
Wall
Lake,
and
if
you
go
back
there,
there's
remnants
of
that
old
road,
so
I
mean
that's
the
kind
of
discussion.
I
think
we
need
to
have
with
amusement
parks.
What
can
the
city
do?
What
can
the
county
do?
B
D
B
A
A
She
sparked
a
comment:
are
you
outside
I'm
done?
Okay?
Well,
I
was
just
to
bring
up
for
chairperson
Markham.
That
OCC
is
a
good,
but
OCC
is
going
to
be
for
sale
on
Highland
or
it's
Waterford
Waterford,
the
Highland
campus
by
20.
What
25
they
want
it
sold.
It's
a
huge
piece
of
property.
Many
people
walk
their
dogs
they're.
A
Now
it's
a
lot
of
open
space
at
OCC,
so
we
have
talked
about,
but
maybe
a
dog
park
a
little
piece
of
it
there,
but
Waterford
being
I
afford
precincts
in
water
for
and
Waterford
are
so
bent
on
putting
it.
You
know
getting
for
back
on
the
tax
roll
for
houses
so
that
it
might
be
difficult,
I'm,
hoping,
maybe
a
dog
park
on
a
little
bit
of
it.
It's
a
really
nice
open
space
at
the
beginning,
when
you
pull
into
OCC
there's
huge
green
space
in
open
space
people
walk
the
dogs.
A
People
play
baseball
people,
you
know
so
people
kind
of
use
it
for
a
park.
Some
of
it
already
I
would
hate
to
see
it
all
be
houses.
But
that
is
you
know.
I
I
get
calls
because
I'm
on
Parks
and
maybe
because
I'm
out
that
way
you
know
well,
that's
my
district
now
too
yeah
I
gotta,
remember
that
and
but
it
is
all
to
the
Waterford
Township
Board.
You
know
so
I'm
hoping
maybe
a
little
piece
of
that
can
remain
open
space.
A
A
R
They
are,
we
met
with
a
group
of
them
last
night
just
to
find
out
what
their
handle,
what
their
objectives
were
and
how
the
progress
they've
made
you're
correct,
so
the
township
really
has
to
be
right.
Any
OCC
Board
of
Trustees
really
need
to
be
on
board
because
they're
already
difficult
enough
to
try
to
pull
something
off
right
like
this,
especially
in
the
time
frame.
A
R
R
Much
of
it
to
be
preserved
for
public
Recreation
as
possible,
there's
a
number
of
buildings,
of
course,
on
the
campus,
there's
still
a
lot
of
open
space,
probably
being
a
little
outside
of
our.
What
we
necessarily
would
be
looking
for
have.
I
R
R
R
Served
on
a
semcog
green
infrastructure
group,
they
came
out
of
the
recommendation
that
we
should
have
a
regional
park
facility.
Every
five
miles,
I
think
that's
a
pretty
good
Benchmark
to
try
to
hit
yeah.
A
R
D
As
I
did
a
walk,
commissioner
Robin
through,
as
you
know,
a
new
commissioner,
just
from
you
know,
years
past,
you
still
obviously
have
the
opportunity
to
follow
up
with
departments
one-on-one
or
even
if
you
let
convictor
Markham,
no
or
myself,
we
will
organize
departments
to
come
before
us,
even
during
budget
wrap
up
as
late
as
that.
If
you
look
at
your.
D
G
D
Kai
from
now
to
then
there
will
be
discussions
in
caucus
about
the
budget
and
we
can
have
those
one-on-one
meetings
as
well,
as
even
you
know,
scheduling
a
workshop
for
a
special
Finance
meeting
if
necessary.
But
then
at
budget
wrap
up
Kyle
gen
and
the
fiscal
Services
team
will
come
back
up,
explain
to
you
what
amendments
they
need
to,
as
I
think,
commissioner,
usually
says
massage
the
budget
through
the
discussions
that
have
been
had
here
in
this
room
and
we'll
walk
through
those
there's.
Also
some
Personnel
amendments
that
come
through
at
that
time.