Open Research Institute ハイフライヤー High Flyer, 1 Aug 2022

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From YouTube: Haifuraiya Proposal Work Session 1 August 2022

Description

0:00 Session Intro
2:50 Slide 1 & 2 (Cover & Title Page)
4:40 Slide 3 (Mission Objectives)
8:04 Slide 4 (Mission Objectives Cont.)
21:01 Slide 5 (Prior AMSAT HEO)
23:41 Slide 6 (Mission Orbit)
32:11 Slide 7 (Spacecraft Size)
36:46 Slide 8 (2014 Working Model)
41:09 Slide 9 (Internal Volume)
42:54 Slide 10 (Spacecraft Functional Block Diagram)
46:53 Slide 11 (Power Subystem)
49:01 Slide 12 (Solar Array Model)
49:36 Slide 13 (Power Budget)
51:02 Slide 14 (Structure Design)
57:17 Slide 15 (Structure Design Model)
58:02 Slide 16 Mass Budget)
59:05 Slide 17 (Thermal Design)
1:00:58 Slide 18 (Attitude Control System)
1:03:18 Slide 19 (ACS Cont.)
1:05:19 Slide 20 (ACS Cont. - Interface Diagram)
1:06:04 Slide 21 (ACS Cont. - Operations Flowchart)
1:07:04 Slide 22 (Flight Computer)
1:07:58 Slide 23 (Primary Experiment - mmW Transponder)
1:11:03 Slide 24 (Primary Experiment Cont.)
1:17:30 Slide 25 (Primary Experiment Cont.)
1:19:30 Slide 26 (Primary Experiment Cont.)
1:21:32 Slide 27, 28 & 29 (Primary Experiment Cont. - Uplink Analysis)
1:23:12 Slide 30 (Telemetry & Control L-to-U Transponder)
1:30:41 Slide 31 (Telemetry & Control L-to-U Transponder Cont.)
1:32:17 Slide 32 (TLM Link Budget)
1:32:41 Slide 33 (CMD Link Budget)
1:32:49 Slide 34 (RadFx Experiment)
1:34:46 Slide 35 (Precipitation Attenuation Experiment)
1:37:50 Slide 36 (Precipitation Attenuation Experiment Cont.)
1:39:03 Slide 37 (Pulse Plasma Thruster Experiment)
1:58:54 Slide 38 (EP - Electric Propulsion)
1:59:33 Slide 39 (EP Cont.)
2:00:30 Feedback!

A

Hello, everybody. Can you hear me.

B

Yes, can you hear me.

C

Yes, thank you welcome everybody. Thank you so much for coming and spending a little bit of time to to help update this presentation.

C

uh This is a older presentation from jan king and he had a team of people that helped him and they presented it and had a workshop and he's been very generous with this time and is interested in um updating the the presentation. um So so we have a lot of help.

C

There's plenty to do so. I am going to share the screen and then show the the slides and then walk through them so that everybody can see every page.

C

um I've started to make a few edits to it, but if you see anything that you have questions about or you have a an idea on how to change it or update it, um then please just just speak up.

D

um Sorry, can anybody hear me this is shaman, I'm trying to figure out where I am, and this am I broadcasting or no oh.

C

Yeah, I can hear you, I don't see you, um I don't see.

D

C

I can I can hear you fine.

D

Right, okay, so I'll have to rename myself, because I think.

C

It's your yeah, your sh.

D

C

B

C

You now: okay, yes,.

D

B

D

C

Okay, all right, I'm gonna.

D

And uh and uh michelle I just wanna uh introduce thomas brush uh who's on the line, so maybe you just give him one. Second, he's a he's, a fellow colleague at not the grumman space systems, yeah.

C

You mentioned him before and he's here.

D

Tom go ahead. Please.

B

Yeah, uh I actually just graduated from umd, I majored in aerospace, engineering and with minor in computer engineering, uh so I have experience with electrical propulsion systems and uh microprocessors, like especially the stm32 arm processors and then also done machine learning, uh especially image, processing and multi-channel sdr systems. So.

C

Yeah plenty of good stuff well, thank you.

B

Yeah I've touched a lot so yeah.

C

Thank you so much for being here, yeah.

B

Yeah, I really appreciate your.

C

B

Having this yep thank you and.

C

Then uh hello to to sumio sumio is a friend of ours and uh it's very very good to see you, and I hope that uh hope that this is helpful and that you can give us some advice um on on some guidance. Okay, so I'll go ahead and start.

A

From the beginning, get it back up on the screen all.

C

Right now, can you see slideshow? Okay?

C

Is that good enough? Yes, okay.

D

Those are funky titles, I mean you went back to the 1960s or 70s for ori logo.

C

The what we did is, I just picked some images to to make the the first uh slide fun. So we we. What we have here is a mock-up. This is to show um the sort of the dimensions and what a 6u 6 unit cubesat looks like this is the orientation that we're expecting. This is the minimum size that we expect.

C

um We don't think that that you can get it any smaller or should try. um You know just just for all the redundancy and and for the debris, mitigation and orbit disposal stuff that we have to do, and so we expect that there will be other organizations that will help make this proposal great, and there they'll be on this page too. um The what we did is we talked about a name. I think this might have been shmandra's suggestion for high flyer haifu and that's just the proposal name.

C

So this is the code name for our proposal work. So if, when we present it and if it is supported and selected, then um jamsat would then pick the all the names for the project. But this is just our code code name and.

D

Also, and also when it goes up, if it works, it will be assigned a on, um it will be send assigned an oscar number, o number, so maybe j.o something. So this is just kind of like a useful project name at this point.

A

C

That's our that's just to organize our our work. The next page that we have here. This is the mission objectives and I've already made some edits to to this. Originally all of the mission objectives were demonstrations, technology demonstrations and that was totally okay for 2014., however, we're we are now um further along, and we think that we can say that we are.

C

We want to deploy a communications resource that that is our goal instead of demonstrating or or doing something for the first time now, we can certainly do demonstrations, um but what I started to do is kind of make it very clear that we want to provide a communications resource uh at heo. uh So that's that's. The first thing that I I did.

C

The things that are in red on this page are are things that are a little bit different from our current work, so at ori, what we have our baseline transponder work is a digital microwave system and we go up on five gigahertz and down on 10 in the amateur radio bands and jan king's preference is a 24 gigahertz downlink and a uplink on 10 gigahertz.

C

Now what we do have is, we do have a dual band feed for 24 and 10., so we already have at least that part for the ground station and we do have link budgets for these bands.

C

This is also some of jan king's work, so we have a pretty extensive spreadsheet from him and uh a lot because at 24 gigahertz you have to worry about uh weather, so humidity and and weather play a big role at 24 gigahertz. The rest of this is very similar. This is all stuff that uh that we we have said over and over again we we can. We think we can handle about a hundred, simultaneous voice users. We think that's.

C

That would be a good channelization for approximately 10 megahertz in the satellite allocation and then the ones at the bottom were the proposed. um These are like proposed payload missions, so they're in red, because I have no idea where vanderbilt university is with this work. If they've already been able to do it, um I started to look that up and got interrupted, but you know these things need to be carefully double checked. We can't assume that vanderbilt would want to provide or collaborate on a payload.

C

So that's something that's a big action item in right right there, but you can sort of see what the hell spacecraft was, including a radiation environment. I know that there's been some experiments at leo from vanderbilt for for radiation environment, I'm not so sure about the propagation effects that may have been for the 24 gigahertz mission and there has been a 24 gigahertz amateur mission. It didn't do 24, gigahertz communications for amateur use, but it was the husky sat, I believe, had a commercial 24 gigahertz uh transponder.

C

Unfortunately they no, they did not, as far as I can tell, did not release that design as open source. Okay. So the second page of the mission objectives it goes on and we have the demonstration about the ability of a ppte propulsion system to carry out critical emission functions. um So these are.

D

I I'd like to suggest something.

C

D

Are we gonna wait.

C

D

C

D

We can wait until the end.

C

No, if you have something for this page, go ahead and say it: okay,.

D

So ppt is actually referring to older class of technology, where um there's a teflon block surrounded by two terminals. It's a very messy. uh uh It's not only a messy and em, but it's also messy in contamination. Ppt propulsion systems are known as earlier um technology. Nobody wants to use them because they splatter quite a bit and the whole point of 30 40 years of research, post ppt is to make uh quasi-neutral plasma activities.

D

It's an ion drive, so basically um you fire it uh you're gonna create splatter everywhere, it's gonna be like uh try to make a cake, and then you know putting on your mixer and forgetting that you'll splatter your whole kitchen, that's how bad it is. Okay,.

C

What should we put there? Instead.

D

uh Ep electric propulsion system.

C

Okay, so we'll change it to ep.

D

E

C

What about the so there's these? This was, I guess, intended as a demonstration to carry out mission functions. Perigee raising it says, perigee.

E

C

E

And then it says yeah.

D

Okay, so that that will be changed uh yeah that will be changed to the three parts. It would be generally called um perigee raising semicolon uh then orbit uh circularization semicolon and orbit adjustment.

C

Okay, so orbit circularization.

D

Regularization sorry, it's going to be a big word, yeah, exactly yeah and uh and a separately orbit adjustment.

D

A

D

A

D

A

D

So we get, we have so perigee raising uh from parking leo parking, which means that when we're, when we're uh deployed uh wherever they drop us off, that's where we start from surprising from parking and from from deployment up very interesting after deployment. So we'll.

E

D

E

C

All right, the next.

D

Point, oh sorry, go ahead, there's something else. If you want to see if you want to like no, if you want to go back to that, first bullet point agent raising to gto: that's not a logical correct because we may we may not be. We just want to be perigeu raising after deployment wherever we're dropped off whatever whatever the stage separation is, will be dropped off and then we've got to find our own way to mars.

D

Tom that, if we're lucky uh we'll we'll end up in the correct orbit, otherwise we'll head off to mars right tom yeah, yeah yeah,.

C

There we go, there's a lag.

D

If anybody makes a mistake.

E

D

Going to be on the decimal point, so we may end up, like you know, I don't know off by a few billion miles.

A

C

That won't happen. Okay, so, let's all right, I think that looks good. Are you satisfied with the first bullet point.

D

Yeah, so um if you really needed to be more specific to the naysayers, which are no dozen nowadays.

C

No, we will pay no attention to the naysayers.

C

What we want to talk about and present we're not going to be defensive or to spend any time on on any sort of attacks or naysayers. Okay,.

D

So we'll let the work will.

C

Speak for itself.

D

Right so I know the second paragraph is coming up, which is demonstrator lavender. I want to use the word uh low contamination, electric propulsion. If we end up like splattering everything over the antenna a and it's not going to work and b we're never going to be able to do it. It's low contamination we need to target like we can't.

D

You know, splatter paint or the pink doesn't plasma over the antenna elements, because that's the whole point of our mission.

C

Okay, should I should it be easier to drop? The second phrase here is this redundant.

E

C

Okay, all right, I'm just gonna strike for.

D

Small sets reliability demonstrate uh increase. Well, we want to say increase because we already flowed flood. This was in 2017-ish 2014-ish, so 2021 we're flying things so demonstrate. uh Indeed remember we talked about integration, communication, electric propulsion, so they're they're together now we have to. We have to say this demonstrate the uh uh compatibility of communication of broadband communications with low contamination yep. That's it compatibility.

D

That's that's our hypothesis right. There.

C

Okay, so the compatibility of what kind of community.

D

Broadband broadband yep- this is where I broadband.

D

Because you're gonna.

E

Get lots of megabits.

C

I can almost guarantee that we will not get hundreds, we will. We will be able to get you know, because because we just don't have the access to the to the bandwidth on these bands, so we have.

D

Are you physical? Are you a physical layer person? I I'm definitely.

C

Interested with software, we have 10 megahertz to play with, so it's not going to be hundreds of megabits and that the distances we're talking about up at up at.

B

C

It could be it, we may not be able to get all of the the link that we that we want so just be prepared it it does. It counts as broadband and to some degree you know I'll, even put a asterisk there to you know, because, because when you see the link budgets you'll see that it's you know, we our sub, our satellite sub band,.

D

You're saying we're going to be power constrained not rather than gain constraint right on the link. Only.

C

um I don't think we're going to be. It depends um so so in the past, in similar designs, there's been some. There have been times where it's been power constrained for various reasons. We don't have some of those constraints so we'll see we are constrained, it's bandwidth constrained, because we only have so much to work with uh regulatory wise. So it's it's not a question. We could. We would love to have lots and lots of bandwidth, but at 10 gig we have 10 megahertz to work with.

C

So don't start thinking about hundreds of megabits per second that is not feasible not unless we went up to some ridiculously high. uh You know modulation,.

E

Index five.

C

E

Modulation index.

C

Is not is not a factor here if we went up to.

B

A

C

High frequency, where we had a band essentially unlimited bandwidth, but we're not going to.

D

C

We're going to stick to these sandbands.

D

Okay, uh that's fine so um to raise the perigee.

C

This has to be changed because the the guidance that we've got from the.

E

C

Fcc is 1250 kilometers to stay above all.

D

Of the constellations plus 1250, plus at 1250 kilometers plus time, I would suggest more.

A

C

Yeah yeah to how about 1250, kilometers or above.

D

And above no and two or two above to raise the very g to above.

A

C

Yeah, I think that's fair, that's good thanks all right and then what is this about to eliminate? Okay, this is to eliminate the spacecraft from orbit at end of life over a brief period of time and then the example is less than a week from final burn.

D

uh That is not going to happen because a week when you're coming down that fast a week, everybody's going to be up in arms said no. You can't do this because you, if you come, I mean they're going to have to clear a lane for us and we can just just burn straight through so just leave that one week alone.

C

How about this, like.

D

C

D

C

Okay, yeah, because I I agree with you: it's tricky or.

D

We send it or we send it into the sun or the moon crashing on the wall. Fine, everybody's dumping yard, that's.

C

It or yeah, okay, and then I added this last one here, because the the fact that this project is open source is a big deal and that it does promote international goodwill and it helps amateur technical education through this practice of design and development.

D

So in the in the mission objectives, one slide: if you just go back slightly those two red things.

C

Yeah, those were the vanderbilt things right here. Well,.

D

Those were the signs, those are the science payloads, basically correct.

A

D

Why do we just call it science payload just say: science payload.

C

D

C

Not do we even in order to get this, how about we just delete it, because I I don't want to advertise a science payload that doesn't exist.

D

Right right so.

C

Again, we're not going to we're not providing that we're, not organizing.

D

The scientific payloads, but if you keep vanderbilt in here, then it's really a science panel that you're describing which could have been obsolete right now because they flew radiation payloads anyway. So just call it science, science paper, a small science pillow ssp.

C

Yeah, what I'm worried about is that if we put it into the mission objectives, that means that we own it- and I don't have- I don't think we have the bandwidth to to put together or reach out on top of everything else.

D

We'll have space: if somebody meets our icd, uh then they fly. If they're, not, we don't fly.

C

A

C

I don't know- maybe one of you has has a better way.

D

Opportunity for a small science payload for a small science panel in red.

C

Yeah, let's keep it in red, because I want to make sure that that wording is okay, yeah.

D

C

So, let's pause for for a minute and um assumio. uh Thank you. So much for being here is there anything that you see that that we should add or change so far.

C

B

Wouldn't it be like relatively low cost and like go overhead to reuse like some scientific payload from an existing mission? um What do you guys think.

C

Because integration is always difficult, no matter if you're reusing or designing it from scratch,.

B

C

Yeah, I I would I'm not against it whatsoever. I may get very excited about scientific payloads and I think, holding the space for it and saying that we're there's an opportunity here is good, um but that's gonna, I think that's a jam sat thing that that would be.

F

C

And they have many relationships with the universities and and have a a wide variety of of you know.

C

Evo they'll be able to pick one that would be very appropriate for this, and so I I want to stay out of that decision and just make sure that we um do a good job of of making a spacecraft that can support.

C

So I think, having having it in here as the mission objective is good, because we we really do have to keep keep in mind that uh to get as much utility out of this as possible.

D

Yeah to me, um I'm just going to say michelle that suppose that there was no science payload and suppose that we eventually had a cpu and we found you know empty volume we'll have to have minimum max because they won't let us fly without minimum mass, because we just can't fly so.

C

Not too worried about that.

D

Right so so we so I mean um I I'm just curious if, if in the future, when we get to the stage, if there is no science payload, whether we could fill it up with some batteries or whatever and everything and let's go for high uh high energy experience,.

C

I am not worried about filling up the space.

B

C

Yeah good so good point all right. The next page here uh jan included this to show yeah.

E

Because, at the time.

C

In 2014 it these these missions were a long time in the past and now they're kind of even longer in the in the past.

D

um This is for tom tom uh thomas. This is actually stuff. That's already been done in the 70s by citizen, science and amateur radio operators, and they were very, very advanced for their kind for their time, and we have all the designs for it all of it. It's.

C

D

C

Yeah we've got in our repository. We have uh at least one of the design books for one of the early oscars and, and we have a variety of of designs. We, I don't think we have complete designs for all of them, um but.

D

The knowledge has been lost by people dying, yeah.

F

Photographs they get photographs.

D

And the slide shows in those days, loss based.

C

That's true we the this so this this was a sort of a reminder. Historical slide kind of show, like you know, hey we should. We should get back to this. We should- and that is that's still true, um so we may want to keep this in just for anybody watching it that uh or reviewing the presentation um that isn't aware. So you think it's okay to keep it in.

D

The in at the infamous ao40 53 by 900 kilometers orbit, yes,.

A

D

That is right now it's dead as a door name, but it's up there at 53 000 by 900 kilometers. How about that for free.

C

All right, so, let's go we'll, go ahead and keep it in because it's it's. I think it's really good to show the designs from the past and um and then uh sumio. If you have any other missions that you want to include, I mean we may want to include q0100 and to to say you know it's not just prior amsat heo missions but but higher altitude missions.

C

um So so we can expand on on the history page um and the way that the the presentation is laid out if you're in front of an audience that either already knows it or you need to cut out a few minutes, then it is something that you can skip over and and and stick with the technical content.

C

So I'd I'd like to maybe even expand it with a little more with a background or definition uh or diagrams for each one, but but then make it modular so that it's a it's something that can be skipped over if necessary.

C

Okay, so the mission orbits are going to have to change, and I I think really it's all in red. This was the this, was the desirable orbit at the time and- and you can see already that we still have the 200 here or we have a 200 here for initial and we have a 500 here for final. So that's that's num! That's going to have to change, um we believe to 12 1250, plus right and then I think that.

E

C

Means that everything else changes I'm not an expert on orbital mechanics. I know I know a little bit about gmat and can string together a script for you know, but but but this is that's- that's really. The limit of my knowledge on on orbits.

D

Well, um well, there is a. um There is a course uh relation, not a fine relation, a course relation between where we want to go from where we're starting and how much delta v, we will require to get there with the orbit adjustments necessary at both ends. However, there is a uh another angle to this, which is, um if we keep on going and not stop. If this is important, if we keep on going and not stop the energy, is there to go, make a big loop around deep space and come back.

D

It is possible, we'll lose communication during that time. But if, if the mission uh planners know that we're going to come back, then we could switch to a different uh low low bit rate mode and it will chug along it will cost it. We won't have to do anything we'll just send it out there and boom it'll just come back again, like you know like, uh like a uh you know like a on a string.

D

So if, if our assigned uh altitude is 1250 that we have to be there, that's that means that we're going to have to uh circularize our burns and we're limited to there. But if we, if we really want to talk about this, and we just go as as elliptical as we can and keep on going, we're going to go halfway to the moon and come.

C

Back, no we're not going to go.

D

We're not going to go.

C

Halfway to the moon, we're not doing any of that sort of thing. I think we should stick to uh like a heo orbit and provide communications resource. So we we can talk about deep space, uh because we do have some some cool stuff. We we do. We have a open source implementation of polar codes which achieve um you know. Those are those are really good codes, they achieve the physical limit and- and we really could play around with some deep space stuff.

D

That's a different.

C

Thing we are not going to do anything exotic or weird, with this orbit. What we do need to do is is to stay up and away from all of the uh many or several and growing uh constellations and formations.

C

um You know 12 below 1250., so I know that that jan king did some orbit work here, so he was able to get some some new numbers, and that was in our debris mitigation um our minimum viable product presentation to the fcc in october of 2021, and that I I think his he he came up with some delta v numbers, and I I I will make sure that I I get them at those, at least in here.

C

um So some work has been done, but he he did recommend that we get someone that really knew what they were doing to go. Look at it, and so I think some of the like the inclination we're really. We really will accept pretty much anything that lets us use this for communications. We're really you know we will be looking for whatever opportunity we can. We can go for in the so just one second, the presentation from from october.

C

This past october, um it was if we could get three of these, then we could have global coverage.

C

Three or four would be awesome now that makes it three or four more times expensive, uh but that that's where jan king, this is what he was going um this year and and so when we look at this, this is just one spacecraft, but what we will be putting in here is the the possibility that we, if we, if we can get uh three for three times the cost, then we should go ahead and do our very best to put up a um a fleet or.

D

To to answer the uh little question by sumio, I'm going to say that um I've done this kind of calculation before uh because I'm the engine designer, so I had to do lots of model. I'm going to say this. If our target mission success is 1250 kilometers, it doesn't make sense to be dropped off at gto all the way up there and then come back down.

D

We might as well take the second stage separation be deployed in in a low-ish earth orbit and then spiral out to 1250 kilometers economically. However, if the launch provider doesn't agree with that, uh with that dropping off saying that no we've got 20 other things to drop off, we're going to drop you off at, say, 8, 000, 20, 000 or whatever kilometers, then we're going to have to swing down the swing and twist all the way down. So the delta v would have to be probably recalculated for a couple of use cases.

D

Now I'm open to what the usages are, but I need a little bit of double check in the math, but it can be done such that we can assume, for example- and I I'm just guessing out here, because this is the only first week I'm thinking about this, but japan and australia happened to be, I believe, strongly uh symmetric around the equator. Is that correct? Does anybody know that with the the latitude south of australia average and the latitude north of uh japan average? Is that not the same from the map.

A

Does that affect.

D

A

D

Well, in which case, the fact is that when we are going to place our uh uh spacecraft in orbit, uh we really want to have an inclination.

D

uh You know approach that basically allows us to cover both see the the globe.

C

Is there okay? So let's.

D

C

So that we so that we can tag it and and bag it. Let's mark this in red two, because I.

E

C

Initial mission, since it was for amsat in a sounds like it, was.

E

C

D

D

C

So, let's let's say: we've got it marked and we know that we are going to have to redo this uh and to be uh japan, centric about it and and that's that.

D

I mean I don't know if we can ever get mitsubishi to launch us, but they that there's an advantage to get they're going up on from japan. Rather than going up.

C

D

Which is cape kennedy.

C

That's and that's something that that I think jamsat will take the lead on if they approve the. If they like the proposal, then that's yeah.

D

That's going to be, we need to do it. We do need to do a workup, we're airspace engineers we'll plug in the numbers into our excel spreadsheet and we'll generate some use cases like if we went up from right. I.

E

D

A

D

The new australia I mean.

C

King lives in australia, doesn't he he does now? That's true.

E

C

Then, anyway, good good spotting, a good catch and, and yes, we'll work up we'll probably have. This will probably expand out into several pages, because.

B

C

At least there's several ways to do this, so yeah.

D

All of the all of those use cases will result in a range of delta v and then the magic becomes is that okay, we need that w how in the world are we going to get that right? I I know the answer to this already small engines cluster together fire when you need them to and otherwise keep quiet.

D

A

Okay, let's see greater the I.

C

Mean yes, yes, that's right. Sumio said I think, the greater the orbital inclination, the more launch energy is required, and that may be true and we will we will make it uh we'll make it come out in the math.

D

um um Sumeo, um I I I designed a lot of the whatever the early map around uh scalable small spacecraft micropropulsion. I am confident that uh if we cascade some of the uh thrusters together to fire only when required all in synchronization, we can beat any link budget. It's a new technique. I kind of pioneered it so I'd love to like you know, actually do the math again and and just just do it it'll be like a class of of uh orbit maneuvers.

C

That'll be one of the things that we include all right. So, let's talk about the physical size. We, I think that it's fair to say, uh 6u and if, for some reason that we need it to be larger, then we'll make it larger. But I don't, I don't think it can be any smaller than 6u.

C

I think we're going to need all of that volume to make it reliable because of the the greater burden upon us compared to the past um in terms of debris mitigation and you know expecting to to dispose and to to be uh reliable and all that, so I'm gonna keep it it's I mean I'm keeping it at 6u. I know we already went over this a little bit but like when we start talking about the physical size. Here it says: there's three standards that exist.

C

Is this still true. This is definitely.

D

True, no, no! No! It's.

C

One bigger.

D

They're not 36u.

C

Okay, so can we strike this three standards.

E

C

E

This accurate is this still accurate.

C

E

They look funny.

C

To me, I I I did not run the numbers to see if this matches up with one.

D

Occurred just say: clipset form factor uh uh compliant to cds. Spec cds 2022 keeps up your design standard just up there.

C

D

This is, this is reflecting somebody's idea of a cubesat, but actually we should follow the official cds document. Okay,.

C

So let me all right, so it says down here that at the time the dimensions were provided by innovative solutions in space.

D

They've, given up uh they've now had to comply with the chipset design, spec, okay,.

C

D

Long terms, rcds.

D

Yeah I'll I'll, if you allow me I I know what uh what to do with the cds exactly.

C

Okay, precision.

D

Ces metrology.

C

Okay, yeah we'll just I'll just put this in red because it's a it's an action item uh and and then the mass it says up to 12 kilograms mass. Does that sound, reasonable.

D

No, no, no, it couldn't be higher, it can be higher. Those are all their older assumptions.

C

Okay, do you off the top of your head? Does anybody here have a.

D

Eventually, you know 1.1 kilograms per average view, so you know six something kilograms. It's not 12 kilograms by any means it's not two kilograms per year. It can't be so it's going to be 1.1, so I would say uh again following cds standard but see the cbs standard, uh certain classes of cds standard allow for lower higher mass payloads.

D

The reason is that the solar panels suppose that you have a spacecraft where, where um you know something like the solar panels, which I would like to have your plumbing, if the orange is not good within a big. So why don't we just get a meter square of uh solar panels, folded or two meter square? We got. That means two kilowatts.

C

Yeah, we're that'll be the very next slide. Okay, so it's okay right and your audio is a little weird sounding so make sure you're next.

E

C

Your microphone, it was.

D

Just a little just.

C

Oh, that's better.

D

C

Much better yeah, it was.

D

Just a little bit stupid, yeah yeah.

C

Yeah, it was just a little getting a little bit um jittery there, so I just want to make sure that everyone can hear you clearly. So is it okay to say up to 1.1 oops kilograms per per you? Is that what I is that what I.

D

Understand estimated estimated estimated up to 1.1 kilograms per usd.

C

Okay, so that's our good guideline.

D

Yeah, I'm referring to cubesat design spec by the specifications.

C

Correct okay, so I think that's good for that page. For now, um there's gonna, there's gonna be a lot more work for every page, but I think this is a good update for.

D

Thomas said: did you study cubesat stuff in school.

B

uh We did a little bit of that, um not much what about.

D

Yeah, I mean essentially uh it uh the original documentation that I'm reading, which is it.

E

D

Slightly modified, but it's one kilogram per average view. So the question is, you know there are exceptions to this because everybody wants to put something or other, but it it comes as a result of the modeling that happens like the rails, you can you can save some. uh You can save some weight. If you don't use solid rails, trust me, you don't need it. It's in the spec. You don't need all the rails to be 100 there.

D

It can be just you know, structurally supported uh internally, but the only the corner, the six corners with a one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight eight corners are important and a little bit of the middle.

C

Okay, so this this page shows at the time. So again, this is the 2014 proposed configuration and you can see it's showing the panels and a.

F

C

Drive mechanism and it's showing a 10 gigahertz horn, a 24 gigahertz horn. So those are our two, uh your uplink and downlink bands. So those are the main ones, but it also has you can see a 435 megahertz omni antenna, a 1269 megahertz omni antenna and a 1.27 gigahertz patch antenna. So there's there was um ideas to kind of put put a number of um of communication resources on this. So so I thought that was that was pretty interesting.

C

The the main ones are the two horns, uh so you can sort of see what the proposed layout um is.

E

So I think that.

C

Let's I'm so I don't want to talk about the antennas, because the antennas are probably going to be that's what they're probably going to look like these are actually still. This is what people use and- and it's totally fine to hold there. What we really should talk about on this page is the solar arrays, because I think there's been some like correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there's been some advancements in solar, space-based, solar, arrays, like and and that these numbers for the wattage and and that who designs them um probably has changed.

D

D

I'd love to re: rework this I'd like to basically collaborate with other people to rework this, because here the gears shown basically require the panel to be unfolded from both sides and rotate on both sides. I mean, theoretically, that's age-old way of doing things, but nowadays you can severely think of like.

C

It comes out yeah yeah, it comes out differently and when we, when we have drawn things for our for what we would want as a transponder project that we draw them from the long. So the.

D

C

That you see like on the top yeah.

D

C

That they end up folding out and I think that's pretty standard now so right.

D

I think at the very end- and you only have one hinge and you only have one rotating axis to rotate the whole panel. You know all the.

E

C

D

Four segments yeah okay,.

C

So I'm going to write.

D

C

Down over here, because.

D

E

C

Any way for me to edit this drawing um but like a side deploying single hinge and any other notes that would help us.

D

Several panels several panels so we're talking about.

C

A

C

Like one on either side is what I've seen like and there's several.

D

Panels in each in each.

C

D

You won't actually be requiring the whole volume anyway, so you might as well get six or seven panels and be done with them, because they'll get ruined over time. So.

C

Yeah, okay, any any other words.

D

We need stabilization by the way, because if your antennas need to be always pointing to earth, then we need to figure out. uh We need to figure out whether we're going to have well then well, the propulsion. Where did they put the propulsion system in this design?.

C

We can skip ahead to propulsion if you.

D

C

Well, here's the internal volume- this is the very next slide. This was the this. Was the internal volume.

A

Allocation in 2014.

C

So you can see here's here's your patch, the one.

D

Good patch right, here's where the horse, I would actually say that since I designed the goddamn thing, uh those ppt's or micro attack whatever that's my stuff, I would place them on pop-outs out of the body not directly to the antenna, because they're going to destroy they're, going to destroy em communications in that in that area. Okay,.

C

I'm having trouble hearing you again because I think you're too far away from the microphone.

D

Okay, sorry, all right, I would. I will propose that the the thrusters not be located near the active antennas ever.

C

Right, okay, I mean we can write that down. I think that that makes sense to me not being a I'm, not a mechanical engineer. Oops wow check what I did. Okay.

D

This is exhaust based, graphics here.

C

I did not mean to do that. Sorry, oh I see now. Okay, so when I moved it, it now brings it to my attention that the ppt is right. They are right by okay. So that's.

D

Yeah all right, so the wrong place. Dude yeah, you need to we'll just say, re reposition things.

C

um Spacecraft, internal volume, okay and I'm just going to say no engines near antennas, yeah or near comps, yeah, good idea. Okay, so we'll we're going to have to um yeah. Let's see we will.

D

We will have and nobody and please everybody ask me how I came to that conclusion. When I get called and say it doesn't.

C

No, no! No! No! No! No! We know okay, so this is now. This is a big, a big drawing okay. So this is the functional block diagram for the communications part, I believe, but it also okay. It also includes- I don't know if you can see my my cursor or not, um but I am then in the lower left, the lowest, oh good. Okay! Thank you!

C

So all right, so the what I'm circling here is this lithium-ion battery and there is actually a um a battery configuration mismatch between slide 11, which is what we're now on and slide 13.. They do not match. So that is something that uh that we should. We should fix, and also I can. I assume that we're going to be updating our battery capacity. um I'm I'm expecting that in eight years that we would revisit this and and that's a lot of maybe the power um power distribution might might need to change.

C

You can see here's the two panels um and the that configuration changes and that causes a cascade to change. So essentially, I think this entire thing will be um the kind of the heart of the presentation. Is this functional block diagram and the next slide? It goes into the power subsystem? Okay, so there, this original presentation does not have a breakdown of each of the of each of these blocks or each of these sections.

C

So it kept it at a pretty high level we may want to, but we will be be going into a lot more detail about the functional block diagram. So some of this stuff changes, especially if we decide that we're going to go with 5 and 10 gigahertz rather than 24 and 10. um some of the art.

C

I don't this, some of the rf stuff is probably going to have to change, but and then you can see that there are the two experiments I think are included in here now we have a uh an architecture that we've we've gotten pretty far along with and what it does is. It makes it much more modular to add in um secondary payloads or scientific payloads.

C

um So when I, when I edit this up and and send it out what I'll do is I'll provide you a link to the architecture that we have for the transponder that we've been working on, and I think that we will fold them together. So we'll take everything that we can from here, because our architecture is only the communications and then we'll we'll figure out uh how to make an even a complete functional block diagram. And we will also probably do a lot of do several breakouts. That show more detail for some of this stuff.

D

If I, if I could just request you michelle I've, just sent you on your slack channel direct message, a photograph of something that I've been working on with my uh colleague um it's a it's a test array of super cap cells, but the result is 56 uh parads, not microfarads, 56 farads at 12 volt, uh you know continuous uh operation. I mean that we can draw on for a few more than a little bit of time. I'm just curious! If that photograph you have it yeah.

C

I'm looking at it.

D

Right so I'm just saying that other than your uh uh other than your uh solid batteries or you know other than your primary batteries, no primary batteries are not rechargeable, but secondary batteries are rechargeable. So therefore, for my for any electric prop stuff, we can actually get a lot of high intensity energy charge and discharge cycles by using super caps, which are lighter and they're they're they're, a tertiary energy source.

A

D

I mean it's really convenient because these technologies technology did not exist 10 15 years ago. Nobody knew about it. So now we know so I'm just saying that so I'm.

C

Going to add it as a note here: okay.

D

C

Well, actually, let's, let's add it on the next page, because the next page is the power subsystem that probably yeah here we go. Okay, so is there.

C

This is I I mean correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm thinking the whole thing turns red, because we because the entire power subsystem needs to be reviewed and.

B

C

D

Is there anything here.

C

That's is there anything here that you would keep that that's that's stated correctly or accurately.

D

It's probably from somebody's specification, but it's everything has changed. Everything's become a bit more convenient to engineer.

C

All right, so, let's just go ahead and do that and.

D

Five volts, nobody uses five volts, nobody uses 12 and 20 volts. It's all one three point: three yeah.

C

That actually was what I was going to ask you all, because I I I know enough to know that the voltages didn't look like what I've seen on another recent. I.

D

Mean we could stick to 28 and be compatible with the russians and the americans.

C

Yeah and I'll put in supercaps with the question mark, so we don't forget.

D

C

I mean, I know you won't forget, but you know: okay,.

D

Yeah so I mean and uh compatibility with 28c uh I know amsat uh supplied stuff to the iss they had. They all agreed that um 28 volt dc also signals. uh Not the ground is the 28 volts, uh russians and 28 volts. Whatever.

C

Oh, so, let's, instead of iss, which is what I printed so I'm going to say, compatibility with 28 volts question mark.

D

Yeah, everything is from individuals, usually.

C

So do you think.

D

C

Not really a question: do you think it's more of a statement.

C

It sounds like it's not really a question, it sounds like 28. Volts is the way to go.

D

You could call it, I mean it's 28 volts, it's 20 volts, that's it. Everybody else is 28.. You can get parts and everything for 28, volts and connectors.

C

Okay, so I mean what it it's it's nice for me to be able to turn a red into a one yeah.

D

So, let's, let's.

C

Just go ahead and say that we're gonna we're that that.

D

Makes sense right just add the word dirty power, 28 volt, dirty power, because we're going to have lots of uh spikes lots.

A

Of spikes, yeah.

D

Yes, dirty power.

A

C

Right there we go all right. The next slide is talking about okay, so this is, I think we just strike this slide, because we we know that we're that we're going to have to change this was just this was at the time.

B

C

The the panels that were chosen for the presentation- and I'm just going to say this whole thing is- is red, okay, so we'll it's just like the.

D

Powers articulating artificial panels have come a long way. We know that there are methods to our articulate panels. We may have to get the gears, but it.

E

C

Okay, okay, all right, and then we have a power budget. Okay, so this is actually a. Is this power power? Yes, this is watts okay, so we have a power budget and again this is the the cascade effect of our power. Subsystem is going to change so.

D

And uh can I just, uh can I ask you that ppt? How much did you assume, though, in what's four watts I believe right and.

C

The experiment: well, there's an experiment.

E

Payload, that's the ppt.

C

E

C

And then the two other, the two.

D

Other interesting, I I do recall giving that presentation, so he copy I mean he used what I was talking about. I mean at the small set conference, so it's like 10 pulses per second 10 pps, so he was already thinking of like we need to up the uh firing rate well anyway. The glass I'm glad to say that uh it's not four watts. It's it's it's less! It's! It could be much less. It could be one watt, one watt, four, ten pps there, okay.

C

Yeah- and I think this isn't it- this is an image, so I can't do much except go over here to power budget and say there.

D

Will be more, will be, more efficient will be more efficient.

C

Okay, yeah. I think that that that sounds sounds good to me, but so I mean you notice that I'm not deleting any slides because they're they're an excellent flow. So we will update this um all right and next is called structure design, and I, when I read through this, this looked like mechanical design to me, um and these are the assumptions at the time that it was volume limited and not mass limited.

C

That seems to have changed um based on what we talked about earlier with it going from 10 kilograms per u to 1.1. So I don't think that we can say this uh anymore that it might not be. You know that this might I'm going to put this in red, because this might not be true anymore. um In fact, the whole thing will just make it red.

D

Yeah, we'll have to think about this for a second that uh if we really want to have an enclosed structure to protect the avionics, my question would be: why have a big shell to protect little avionics, because things have become smaller than having little shells in a otherwise empty frame. So we just have like rails. We have an open structure. We just fly up there, but we basically enclose the avionics in a in a smallish shell, because we don't really need that much unless you want, like big, have huge vacuum tubes in in the system.

C

Yeah, um okay, so it sounds like this whole.

C

It sounds like this.

D

But my my experience I mean in selecting avionics parts is limited to electric prop and command control and data handling, so maybe other persons can also. You know suggest that we don't need a big shell. There's no point in it. I mean it's just going to carry a lot of mass up there, whereas we could just say: hey, look, let's use it for battery power or you know, fuel tanks or something.

C

Okay, so this approach has changed right. I know enough from like from looking at spacecraft that over the past 10 years, especially and like when jpl has an open house- and I got you know- I got to see the engineering model um of the little cubesats that went to to mars and did the relay and.

D

C

Things that you're saying are things that I'm seeing and that you know so, I'm just going to say, put it in red and I'm going to say this. This approach has changed. um The rest of this stuff will will change um to for, for you know the updated structure, design, yeah.

D

Do we have to then have some mechanical teams? Oh.

C

Yeah absolutely, and that's that's actually uh thermal we are, I don't know we might even be better at thermal than mechanical, but we have always assumed um for our microtransponder that we would that we would purchase or or or that someone else that knows how to build the mechanical part of the spacecraft would um you know, would that we would need to add that resource that we would need to have those people added to to ri, because we don't have anybody that has enough experience and or time to to do it.

C

uh For this proposal, though, we have to find people that that can advise us or we have to find a suitable, essentially a suitable frame or a suitable structure that we can promise.

D

Now, just guessing in the entire rest of the slide, no mention of radiation prediction right.

C

I think there is later on okay, and that is actually something that we've talked about when we did we've done mission planning and when we went and talked to the fcc about debris mitigation. Is that if you, if you spiral up and spend a lot of time, tooling,.

E

C

Then you're going to get pummeled by radiation way more than if you just get a good launch and just pay to be transported up higher and that second option has won out every time. Because when you look at the amount of radiation that you have to endure, then your capabilities have to go down because you have to add so much to mitigate the the radiation. It's just classic.

D

Well, um I'd like to just uh um inform you that I was reading just a paper just a few minutes ago, um work related and apparently the structures that house the spacecraft. You know avionics, once they're bombarded with the ionizing radiation, they end up creating more particles which actually end up creating inside of the avionics. You know, chips, the fabrics and everything. So if you have a sort of like a bare bones naked cell, we actually might be lucky enough. I mean I'm just predicting, because I was reading their comments that hey.

D

If you want everything enclosed, then you're going to get tons of more radiation than you would if it was as good.

D

A

D

Talk to somebody smart.

C

D

Yeah, but I bet you, they would agree with that, because the comments are from these people, who are always launching stuff all the time.

D

And I think, uh what's his spot uh uh new mexico university of new mexico did this, where they flew a a kind of like a bear, naked uh boss platform and they only shielded their critical parts. That's it.

C

Was it? Was it a hero.

D

Yeah, it was military military ups above 600 to 2000.

A

C

All right anything else on this page I mean there, the vibe testing and the the spanning the interior volume to make stuff.

D

Apparently, I've been told uh from my own manager that optical cabling actually degrades in space too much so copper, cabling is what it is. I mean in terms of avionics. That's why they do it. Optical apparently doesn't survive, and I was sad at hearing that.

A

C

D

C

Anything else on this page before we move on.

A

E

A

C

All right, so here is uh so you notice. This says this is structured design, page one, okay and then structured design, page two.

C

So again this is gonna change, but you can see the folding and the hinges on this particular one and it's from mma. So I this is, I'm going to mark it in red. So that's that's! Going to change.

D

Two for the price of one frame: I don't understand that. Okay,.

C

They probably got a deal.

D

C

You know- or you know I don't know- I wouldn't guess, but but uh I I either they got a deal. I think two for the price I want or that this arrangement was was innovative in some way. Aha, okay, if there's the mass budget, and since we it's, this is from 2014. So it's it's gonna be it's gonna have to be revised completely.

D

Did anybody? What was this a situation where people would just buy the reaction wheels from somewhere? Is that the the.

C

Source of direct.

D

C

That's a good, I believe so. Okay did we see any hint here of that.

D

It just says reaction, wheels.

C

Yeah just as reaction wheels and it, but it has these oddly specific kilograms, so I I would and it and it calls out if it doesn't call out the company, um but I'm it. It doesn't look like guesses to me. It looks like it came off.

D

Yeah, it's not homemade, I mean they have to. I mean we. If, if that's keeping the attitude.

E

D

You know, then we we better talk to somebody who buys this stuff and it works, because if we make it ourselves, that's not gonna work.

C

Yeah I enjoyed this page, um I'm not sure if there was text here, but but this is, this is thermal design and there is no notes and thermal design is one of the areas that we are pretty weak. We did get a disc, a nice discount on the software called thermal desktop and we had a volunteer who learned how to use it back when we were working towards the air x project and they they didn't, have any thermal people.

C

So we we picked it up and and tried to learn how to use it, and we we didn't get that far because we we had, you know fairly basic, simple stuff to to test, and you know until you get your design done. You're. You know you, you have to have something to test and something to model, and that's as far as we got so we I don't think that we have any.

C

uh We don't have good capability here. I really hope. Jamsat has some people here uh and what I'll do after this, after we've run through these at this particular session, is write the stuff down that we are most in need of and see uh if we can and also the the other organizations that are helping us will reach out and ask.

D

If we're floating around at 1200 kilometers we're going to be having a period of certain times, so we're going to be actually in different, uh we're going to be in shadow, we're going to be light and so on and so forth and we're going to face uh turtle cycling. So it is important for us.

C

Oh yeah yeah, I'm not sure if there was anything here in the original presentation and it's been lost or was removed, but the thermal design page is blank and I don't have anything to add to it other than we. We need um some people that that are that are good at this to check it. Okay, now comes the attitude control system, here's what we had at the time specified and or proposed. It was three axis attitude: control system and I'm not that say, driven by yeah the accuracy and knowledge.

C

So so we have some results here and and with notes that they're driven by the antenna beam. So so these things, I don't believe, have changed you're the beam width of the antenna is a function of the the frequency and the type of antenna you're using um now they're talking about the solar array, drive requirements here, this y plus or minus five degrees.

C

uh Since we are we're going to go with a different solar array type, that's that's going to be different, um but you can see what we're kind of dealing with you know the oops hang on we're not done yet. uh There's this nadir pointing mode there's a safe, hold mode. There's a point on earth target tracking mode, maintain solar array axis.

C

So these are things that your that people are going to have to tell me if there's still, some of them I'm familiar with and some of them, I'm not I'm not an uh attitude control system expert. I know enough to be dangerous, um but is there anything here that we are missing or anything here that we can strike.

D

um This is all assuming the spacecraft is operating by itself, with no um no beacon, I mean it's not receiving any beacon like a gps, you know well, like I mean.

E

Here the knowledge.

D

I need to control, I mean I'm wondering why they didn't consider like well, there's a available beacon, that's coming from outer, you know from above orbit, and you know that's an additional input to the system that we know where, where zealot is, or you know where the outer ring of satellites are because the gps satellites will be above that not at 1200, they won't be they'll, be in any. You know.

C

Okay, so I think it sounds like we really. We need some help here. Yes, this is to me all of this is this assumes that it's operating on its own independently without any any outside help. So, let's see if let's see, if there's anything here, okay, so here's more attitude, control system, components, aha, okay, so here's where we have this is where they were coming from, so they were purchased three reaction, wheels.

D

From sinclair planetary, blue canyon might not sell for cheap sinclair. Is this who knows.

C

It doesn't, but it would be, it would be this or this is giving you an idea about what what it was.

B

C

And then we would get the the current. You know type of thing. If, if this is the.

B

C

That we that we want- um I don't see- why not this okay, so so it names out all the different companies and the torque or coils embedded spacecraft walls and the momentum, dumping dumping. Okay, so and there's actual photographs of of products, that's cool, okay! So that's a little bit better specified than the than the intro.

C

um I'm still a little queasy about all this, because I'm I'm like do we is this a full list of the requirements or or not- and I don't know- but I think we have people- we do- have people that can help us with attitude control systems and there is uh at least one um open source attitude control system uh from libra space foundation. So we can get.

D

Some help from them they might already have drivers for certain products already where we can get a telemetry or I'm.

C

Losing losing your audio again sorry.

D

I mean what I'm trying to say is that they might already have built-in interface uh for for the various hardware I mean we don't have to reinvent the wheel. We can just save this, whatever they use, we can use just.

C

Yeah follow the design so update, update the components is what we need to do.

C

And I'll put that in red as a that's, what we need to do not too bad all right, another third page and a fourth page on on attitude control systems, because it's important so here is a close-up. Remember that functional block diagram from earlier this is close-up showing where, where the reaction wheels and the magnetometer and the star tracker, etc, the torque torque coils, where they are located in the functional block diagram and what.

D

And they can look at the interfaces. We need to update this to add desaturation by ep electric propulsion. The electric propulsion systems, when they're not doing orbit adjustment orbit control, will actually be used to desaturate the reaction wheels.

D

Okay, so I'll put that otherwise you're going to be. First of all, you don't want to run reactions all the time, but if you have to because you're maintaining your uh you know bore sight, um you will end up like actually saturating them and they won't be able to control. So you fire against them by ep.

C

Okay, all right, so I've got that there, the fourth page of the attitude control system. Oh okay, so this looks like a state diagram for all those different modes. That makes me a little that makes me much happier okay. So this is.

C

All right, this is.

A

C

Be reviewed, but this is this- is nice to have to see what, where the thinking was for the for the state. I don't know if the current state diagram.

D

Assumptions are okay here, please, let's add a gps uh lock. um So in those days you know it wasn't considered, but now it's very practical to have a little gps receiver um to give us at least a course direction, yeah, where, where we are in gps territory,.

C

C

All right next is the flight computer, and this is.

C

Probably going to change um because we we have, we have a variety of options and we also our baseline is the verrago chip or virago flight computer and they have an m4. So I think this will change, but it's it's. Essentially it's going to be it's going to be a similar type of of computer.

C

It should have more capability, but it won't be this one, but it'll be an updated one and it will have lots of lots of heritage, especially if we go with something like the the virago.

E

C

All right primary experiment was the regenerative transponder. That could that's a lot of this actually stays the same. We do need to make a decision about the about the actual uh the frequencies that we're using. Is it yeah.

D

C

To be 5 and 10, or is it going to be 10 and 24, but this makes a good uplink band according to jan we've always used, it always assumed it is our downlink band for five and dime or five and ten, um and then he talks about 24. It's not used very much makes a good downlink band.

C

It's it's nearly on the first water absorption line, so he he makes. This remark here and and jan has a substantial amount of work in the in his uh link budgets that that model that use the um weather modeling so that you you can put in where you your ground station is, and it will, it will tell you how kind of bad it is throughout the year.

D

So, theoretically is the first water absorption line since atmosphere is full of water. Do we have do we have issues in transmitting from earth or transmitting to earth or.

C

Is it both ways? It's just both ways. It's it's, the your your your energy from your the radio frequency energy is absorbed stopped by water in the air. So this is rain. Fade is.

A

C

Look at it, this is sort of humidity fade or cloud fade, or you know, and it's a it's a factor for for 24 gigahertz, so it it does make transmitting on this frequency very interesting because it's like sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't and and you can actually see the weather, especially if it's, um which you know the way that we do the communications. um It's a it's a loop, it's a closed loop. So so what we we use is adaptive uh coding and modulation.

C

So, depending on the signal-to-noise ratio of your link, you get more coding or more modulation in order to to maintain or to to to get you the most bits through as possible, and that is something that you will see on 24 gigahertz a lot more than some other bands. So I think this points an excellent one at the bottom, and you know that this um I'm going to even add the whole. A a completely new point about you know: 24 gigahertz would allow us to show off uh adaptive coding and modulation.

C

D

Yeah, I'm gonna actually um refer to something that I used to do when I was a visa network operator. There are, there are rain, fade that happens when the cloud that the rain is coming from is shallow on the horizon or at shallow angle. You know, then we know that there's some um significant artifacts that happen in the signal. But if it's above us like, if the cloud comes above us, then we get into like really I mean we get two different modes of operating. One goes through and one doesn't go through.

D

I mean that's what I would love to experiment with it that you know if we, if we have the satellite low on the horizon, when we're doing rain or handling moisture, what does it do versus when it's straight overhead, yeah, okay,.

C

There's all sorts of fun things to do at 24, gigahertz and that's that's a. I think. It's well worth talking about and.

E

C

Letting people play okay so, for here the contention-based fdma is uh that's not the way that we do, the uplink, uh your you have authentication and authorization and or you could we could back off all the way to contention-based fdma but or random, but we have something a little more sophisticated that we have designed. So so I this is not this. This may be like a like a fail over mode, but that's not how how we're going to do it. 100 users, we keep that's. That sounds right.

C

um I think this was randomly probably meant to be randomly uh users select frequency randomly it's actually the payload that selects for you so or or it might be, your your radio, I don't know.

D

Absolutely I'm just going to flag that because it's not.

C

You know, then yeah conflicted users retry. So all this this is fine. This is actually works, but we have a a different way of doing it. The user transmit two watts. That's going to be that's going to be.

E

D

Correct for the baby to figure out the eirp required to get to the you know, spacecraft. So I'm not sure why it's hardcoded to watts but yeah.

C

That closes the link, that's accurate, okay for one meter dish and two two watts that'll that'll get you there. We.

A

C

This fec is not the case anymore, um so we use a convolutional. I think this means this was meant to be sequential in the standard yeah.

D

Samia's uh this addition is.

E

Great condition is great.

C

This sans this is read solomon, but we so we use we use. Maybe he meant convolutional here, but but we use a rate, one half convolutional code, we're not we're not concatenating it. On the uplink uh we use a golay code for for the link channel information, um that's still accurate, the user rate of 500 bits per second and 10 kilohertz. That's we. We bumped that up. um So that's that's! Going to change. um Uplink receive fft to find each user within.

C

I guess this is when that must mean millisecond cable of 100 sequential acquisition. So that is not how we do it. We use a polyphase filter bank for the uplink receive.

C

So this will this will be changed. um I mean you can sort of, uh but I'll put it in red, because we will be able to put it differently. Okay, now the down link, assuming that it's on 24 gigahertz, it's a 10 watt, sspa, let's see oh and let's see a diameter of one meter is large. This tsumio 50 centimeters less is is desirable. Okay, let's put that down, because that's a very, very good point. Thank you.

C

This is now red because all right, so I.

D

Was saying that if you, if you say.

C

Let's say 50 centimeters or less goal.

D

Yes, but um um usually in reset terminology, you don't define the tx first, you just say eirp and that's where then you would then figure out the combination. Well, then, you define the antenna dish which is 0.5 meter. Then whatever tx is necessary to reach the eirp subject to the limitations of the beam being formed.

C

Yeah it has to we're familiar with this process. The 50 centimeter or last goal actually is the one of the base lines that we did for the 5 and 10 gigahertz.

C

So this is just a this is an adjustment in the link budget and then we will need more power coming from somewhere, but this downlink here it's talking about these turbo codes. We actually use dvbs2 and s2x, um so we're going to get some coding gain. um So we're not we're not using uh the same stuff here um any yeah. Some of this is going to be the same and they're talking about primary user interface is a codec 2 vocoder.

C

So we actually use opus because codec 2 tops out at 3 200 bits per second, and that is not going to give a good voice quality, so we're going to use higher bitrate, vocoders and opus has has them all the way up to ridiculously large number of bits.

C

um Some of this is gonna. This is over. I think, a little over constrained. um Our symbol rate we already know is is larger than than three mega. This is mega symbols per second, this is a symbol rate, uh so we we already know for, for it's going to be closer to eight um and it is a single download, downlink bitstream, it's a time, division multiplexing using dvb, s2 s2x.

C

So this will all change and the numbers for the user and the delivered bit rate will go up so and it's adaptive coding and modulation, which means that it's not fixed, there's a variety of modulations and a variety of of rates for the code.

C

And if so, if you are, if you have a small dish or if you have pointing error or bad weather, then you will get more coding and you will get more, you know you will, you will get, um it will work harder to deliver the bids, but your bit rate will go down.

C

So this is all I should probably just make it all red, but I'm I.

D

Will I'm pretty pretty.

C

Confident that we've we've got.

D

All these numbers in the link budget yeah will there be simultaneously different uh uh coding rates in use by the 100 people, different people or when it goes down. Everything goes down to a particular level of service. We've.

C

Talked about that in several times in the past, and what we'll probably start out doing is um well, we could deliver. uh Each frame in the downlink could is can be a different uh mod cod, so you can actually change this per frame, and so the answer is, it depends there like the easy way to do. It is to lock step everybody to the worst case station, but that's not really fair, so yeah.

E

C

Know but but starting out everything is going to be simpler, so that's kind of the nice thing about having an fpga is that, as you figure out how to do things that you can you upgrade your spacecraft all right. So this is this is interesting. So here's here's how they were laying out the signal processing.

C

They were using a15 r3 they're using a what they call a kepler gpu.

C

A dual isp core with raw processing: oh here's, some camera sensors. You were asking about cameras right.

D

C

At that, which is.

D

The ship already had the interfaces pinned.

C

Down yeah and then an advanced display engine okay, built on tsmc 28, nanometers, yeah,.

D

But in the process you can also get the zinc. I mean you've got vivado running, so you could actually get the zinc. uh uh You know uh zinc. uh You know.

C

Yeah this this architecture.

D

C

Change because we so we have a fpga based um design and that's what we're gonna fly. We're gonna fly a um a durable fpga, so this will all look different, so I'm just gonna go ahead and and make it.

D

Red, are you going to? Are you going to get uh rtg4 from extel uh like microsemi.

C

We're going to go with xylex.

D

C

A

Says we can use.

C

Then we are going.

D

To to it's 60 to 80 thousand the one that I'm using at work is 680 000. Then it's horrible.

C

Yep, no problem, it's what it is, what it is, okay, so here's something I don't know a lot about. This is the pa.

D

The gallium gallium nitride sspa, it's a 20 year old design right now. At this point,.

C

Okay, so is it sounds like it was picked. How do we know it can be done and it was reliable then, and that and it might be reliable now, but there is. Is this something that needs to change.

D

I can get you the best possible world's greatest possible advisor on this. If you wish I'll, I can reach.

B

E

C

D

Beat the crap out of this spec.

C

Okay, good, let's, let's let somebody that knows: rf parts figure it out.

E

C

E

To have a backup.

C

E

D

That this is older yeah. The real question is that this chip was designed for earth of you know terminals I mean, like you know, like not, you know, uh regular uh terraformer terminals, so the question is that will this this? This chip survive in space even more than a month.

C

Oh okay, I don't know it does. Maybe this part number would be the key to answering that question. This might be something that's uh that's rated.

D

Tga 2595, I mean just I'm curious, but I doubt it two five, nine five I mean see if, if, if we have to use it yeah, it's just a conventional itty-bitty chip, that's it's not even uh protected against thermal! I'm sorry radiation doses. So if we use it which is cheap, we got to put a good amount of shielding, because this thing will will break down over.

C

Time then definitely get in touch with somebody that knows this stuff, so that we can get a a good recommendation and then I'm just going to leave it in red, because yeah.

D

I mean we can even we don't need gallium nitrate we can use because we we're going to be power surplus, so we could just theoretically, uh we could use anything. That's quote older generation, radiation hardened and be done with. No one know the difference.

C

Okay, the next.

D

Even even vacuum tubes, even vacuum tubes.

C

Even vacuum, tubes yep, the the next three slides, are all uh uplink and downlink uh transponder, like link budgets and all.

D

The budgets yeah.

C

Yeah, it all gets revved, but you do notice that he put in this is he's referencing, boulder, colorado at 10 degree, elevation, angle, clausen right, so the weather models will be important, um but the positions that the the you know, these uplink references will be in japan or we'll pick a pick a place um and see what happens.

D

Japan and australia that, if you're, japan and australia, which is flat on the horizon, that's what.

C

It is yeah well, but but the nice thing about the link budgets from from jan is that the the weather models are included and it keys off of your geographical position. It's really nice work, so so that so essentially the bottom line here was 100 users at five kilobits per second each and there's your margin, and you know that's probably why it was codec two. um You know: that's, uh that's that's very modest, but we will so we there will be lots of adjustments, but you can see where what we have to compare to.

C

You can see what the bottom line was. All right. Next is the ltu transponder. It is a okay, so this is telemetry and I'm guessing control and what they did is they had a separate radio. So it says I guess the telemetry downlink was this uhf radio they're using 9 600 bits bpsk suppressed, is that it's acting like it's misspelled.

C

Okay, there we go um blah blah blah.

A

C

I I don't know um we could certainly use something like this setup for telemetry and control and have it separate from the microwave.

C

What we've kind of assumed, with the with five and ten gigahertz design that we've been working on, is that the telemetry and control is on those channels as well, that it is not separate- and I know that, there's an argument for redundancy having a completely separate radio for telemetry and control.

D

But uh the the legal requirement may be now. This is not the uh us mission. um If this was us, the fcc might say no, you still need to have a way to shut off the transmitter.

D

So you you need to have a separate channel altogether, nothing to do with your payload yeah, and so so, but japan might say well we don't care, but but I'm just saying that if we just implement a simple um hard-coded bpsk, like literally hardcoded, fixed, no fpga crap right just you know, modulation, one zeros and everything and just very simple- that might be useful for a variety just to survive the mission just so the mission can survive. That's all.

C

Okay, so I'm just going to keep this in here I this. This is sort of the. This is all kind of familiar to to me and it looks kind of tried and true- and you know so.

E

C

I'm going to let people that are that are more expert at that than me. um Tell me right.

D

C

Pages so so is there two pages there might even be any more yeah, there's a telemetry link, budget and everything. So so in this section I want it, you know, if you don't know any any more than I do, then we just skip over it entirely and and get a better review from somebody. That knows, I'm kind of inclined to be very conservative with telemetry and control.

C

There is a faction of people that are very excited about doing it in a modern way, and it's like well. You know that we should do it all within the the five and ten. um But my my instinct is to be very conservative here and make sure that that if, if your fancy digital stuff fails and then we have a failover to where it turns into a transponder and then, if that fails too or if uplink or downlink completely fails, uh we have to be able to to control it.

C

Like you said so, I'm just going to leave this here. Is there.

D

Anything here that you.

C

Would change, though,.

D

I would change, I would change this. I mean think about it for a second uhf you're sending up uhf, because historically, uhf is what, within the capability of people. However, uhf antennas are goddamn large compared to.

B

D

L and even l is larger than c.

C

Can okay, possibly new frequencies, is what you're saying yeah.

D

Yeah, can we look at a commanding by.

C

Okay, so I already know that we that we may we may not have much of a choice here, just simply because we won't be allocated anything on on some on some frequencies, like they're, that may wave us off. For I I I imagine that that microwave might be easier.

D

Well, the the only problem is that if you're got a spacecraft up there and you want to receive the command signal, not transmit you're going to have to have, I guess what an l-band antenna- that's big.

A

C

Let's see sumio says: wouldn't it be desirable to transmit telemetry under frequency with less cosmic noise? Okay, let's I'm going to write that down.

D

I mean cosmic noise isn't like uh low noise right. Okay,.

C

We would like to to have that so.

D

C

There any okay so aside from the frequencies, is there anything else here that that stands out to you. That needs to be changed. I mean like it would.

C

E

So we're talking about.

C

A rate one half sequential overview.

D

C

Guess sequential must mean convolutional too.

E

C

Ask him because he's saying, for example, viterbi and viterbi and convolutional kind of go together and then plus a box, so he's talking about concatenating two codes, that's a standard technique. um I I don't know.

D

A

D

Station are the command stations going to be uh proprietary command stations, or do you want everybody to be complicated because the choice of command station means that specialized equipment specialize everything? Because this is a big, serious mission? If we just design for the lowest possible person, any time they can harry can just get up there.

C

No, no! No! I I I can tell you at least from the like in the united states way of approaching. This is that every amateur radio operator in that has a license. You know, so all licensees are capable they're, they're, legally capable of being. uh You know, command station for for the amateur satellite service, but it's up to the operator, so there will be.

E

No, we don't have a whole number of people there.

C

Will be a small number of people and they will be chosen by the operator.

D

Right so we don't have to comply with vhf or uhf, or we can just get any frequency that.

C

They give us yeah what you just said. We get any. We take advantage of any frequency that we're given. So I think some work needs to be done here to to make sure that we've got good good, picks.

C

A

C

Standard you know using the old reliable, you know things that work, it would is, would be very smart and then, let's see sumia, says at the same time we also want to adopt strong encoding. Yes, so yeah, the the rate rate, one half sequential or I'm assuming convolutional code plus a block code. That's pretty strong, that's good stuff. Another option that that um that that we have available to us uh is low density, parity check codes or ldpc and that's what's used on.

A

C

S2X downlink, and so since we already know how to do that, we already have an encoder and a decoder for that. We may want to consider using our ldpc work instead of using the convolutional block code approach. So we have choices here and ldpc is a very high performance code, that's great and or we could go nuts and and implement uh this stuff and with the polar code which is even you know, even neater, so there's lots of opportunity for strong encoding uh here and uh and good performance. So this is.

C

This is a whole system in and of itself and we'll need lots of good advice for it all right. This part is a.

C

All right somebody explain this to me: it's active below 5000 kilometers, it's an l band to uhf transponder.

C

E

D

I don't have the notes for this. Why would they want to? I mean they're doing something like if it be comes below.

D

This is during the gto phase: gto perigee, yeah, so they're thinking of a swing they're, not thinking of a circular 1250 kilometer orbital right circular, 23, 000, they're, talking about an elliptical up to geo and then comes back around very low and then goes up again. That's what the the gto this whole mission. uh The original base was presented on a basis that you would be deployed from a geosynchronous transfer already vehicle yeah, and it would then follow the track of the vehicle.

D

Eventually the vehicle came down and and fell down to earth, but the the vehicle would place it in always an elliptical orbit, so 5000 perigee and then 23 000 apogee. That's what this that's, why they needed to and the doppler and and they thought about doppler like well. If they're coming down we're going to be sweeping very fast, um so we'll lose lock. So we need a larger.

C

Okay, all right that makes sense. I I'll leave it.

D

In our case, we're going to be circular, we don't really care, I mean we're.

C

Never going to come back.

A

C

We yeah gotcha. Now we have link budgets again and yeah. Here we have.

C

This is all I think it's all going to be pretty similar, especially if we end up using the exact same design, but all link budgets are going to get reviewed.

C

And then we have a command link budget it'll. These will all be reviewed. This has all of the basic stuff in it.

C

Okay, now we have a page about the this is the rad fx experiment. This is I'm pretty sure this is already flown, because you know it talks about it's a copy of that being flown in 2015 on on fox, so yeah.

C

The radiation environment, however, for gto is quite different, so you know I I think that we are going to we'll stand down from talking about any particular scientific experiment. We will hold space and we will defer to uh to to jam, sat if they decide that this is worth.

C

If we end up with something that they think is worth doing and like it enough, and we do a good enough job, then I think we'll defer to to jam set to pick experiments, because uh this has already flown it and it could be that vanderbilt may have stuff and that they would like to put on here, but I I'm I'm pretty sure that um jam set with.

D

A

I can't hear you.

D

So rad effects went above eight thousand like it crossed the island radiation bills at 1200, you're not going to process radiation belts.

D

Up to leo there's no radiation, 2000 kilometers is the limit. To leo I mean the official definition of limos and leo. So therefore, not much radiation effects this. This would not be applicable.

C

um Okay, well, you know I I let's keep that in mind and and and remember that, because that's a good point. um I'm pretty sure, though, that the jam sat has such a good relationships with so many different universities that they.

D

C

There's probably some other experiment.

D

I mean there's iron ionic, wind experiments, solar weather experiments, but radiation is above 8 000 anyway. So that's.

E

C

Where fox went yeah all right, so here, okay, so the precipitation attenuation experiment this. This is for 24 gigahertz, any sort of experiment on the we have a built-in experiment with adaptive coding and modulation in in the protocol. So it's kind of neat there's lots of things to be learned uh from from just letting your protocol adapt to the weather. So I'm super excited about that. We can that's so in a sense, it doesn't even have to be a separate experiment.

C

We can actually include this as as part of the communications package, to say that we can actually give reports regular reports. People can look at the spacecraft and and look at the essentially the log of all of the users that have that have acquired the spacecraft and used it, and we can report all their statistics and and get a pretty good picture of uh of at least 24 gigahertz. So so that's the.

D

Moisture the moisture in the atmosphere basically.

C

As the beam passes, it will greatly affect attenuation, which means that the protocol has to adapt and adds uh it either increases or decreases the complexity of the modulation, picked or increases or decreases the rate and there's there's a there's all these different pairs and they cover the entire spectrum, the signal-to-noise uh slope, uh it's really cool and that's something that that, with some work um that could be, we could report those that behavior as it adapts and delivers your communication.

D

We could predict uh cloud cover rain cover.

C

We would be able to report actual like even yes, and there are some really neat things about weather like the there there's things that we may be able to report that perhaps radar doesn't really catch.

D

Yeah radar will only give reflections, but if we are beaming through the cloud, the mass we would be able to tell them when a storm is forming because of the uh humidity that.

C

We're going to go through okay, so what I'm going to do is something we haven't done so far, I'm going to put this in blue because I think we can, instead of changing or not doing it or deleting it. This is something we can actually put in as an enhancement this. This can be actually part of the the main payload. So that's what that's going to stand for.

A

Okay, all right are.

C

You doing okay for for time, by the way we've been at this for, like an hour and a half, does anybody need? We only have we have four more slides, but is everybody okay to hang in there for a little longer.

C

Well, he's typed he's typing he's had some some.

D

C

Great uh stuff, I just want to make sure everybody's okay. I I really appreciate the time. I think we they've done a huge amount here. um Okay, so here's more about the precipitation, attenuation experiment, let's see yeah, we can do way better than this. We can. We can actually.

D

I'd like to I'd like to um I'd like to add a line to this.

C

Okay, let me let me hear it.

D

Okay: um uh okay, it's important! Just don't don't jump out of your seat when I'm saying this.

D

Secondary experiment of this system, this exact system as delivering wireless power.

D

So experiment number one xml2, that's it simple as that, just a cw carrier. You know whatever.

C

Best possible use case you'll be able to tell from the link budget how well that will work.

D

Which is exactly what the question is, because everybody and their mother, brothers and cousins is talking and I'm working on something. So I'm just.

C

Saying it's: it's it's going to be well, we'll we'll run the numbers. I'll put it in there. You know, but it's uh yeah. So so the answer is yes, uh but but be prepared for very modest numbers ah and look where we're at we're. At the pulse. Plasma thruster from george washington university.

D

All right, do you have any comments here? Yeah can I um just uh um get permission to broadcast a few pictures.

C

Yeah sure I think you should be able to do. I have to stop well, let me say my work first before I do anything. Silly yeah.

D

No, no, I just want to share.

C

All right, I will stop and there's.

D

Another picture of a president: this is not a picture of a truster. Sorry, it's a picture of a roof rack! Okay! Sorry! It's embarrassing! Okay, like okay, fine, all right! um Okay, uh for for uh probably uh I don't know who he.

E

D

But uh hello, ac and.

C

Ac welcome ac all right. Everyone's welcome all right. Go ahead. Okay,.

D

um Well, this is actually uh that 2014 slide that was originally sent out and everything. At that point I was in the lab. uh I was returning back from small set, but this plus actually come out of the lab at the same week. So this went up to space on bricks at rp and uh basically um the system itself uh is uh quite interesting architecture there's a lot of empty space, because uh I did really didn't have that many parts to begin with, and then the the board design was so old and clunky.

D

There were some fixed corners that I had to you know design. So I kind of used these for test points. I used these for umbilical cables. I used. I, I basically wasted space, but there was this whole section uh on the where my mouse is. I don't know if you can see my mouse, but it was just empty. It was not doing anything.

D

So on the other side, um there were uh definitely um uh you know some interesting gadgets and widgets, and I'd like to show it to you hang on a second I'm just going to switch um there. We go on the other side. This is a 250 megahertz uh system on module computer. It's a cold fire cpu, extremely rugged, extremely reliable, has flown many times.

D

I mean for me, but you pop it out and you just program it and you pop it back in or you just do a in in circuit serial bit of flash and it has 52 input, output, pins and it's got complete real-time control and real-time operating system, and it's fully licensed and fully functional. And here we have a set of opto coupler relays for powering.

D

um You know solid state switches, so pretty much uh uh they they can power power full circuits, but this is where the algorithm lived, that I was working on and that algorithm is the subject of the patent itself. However,.

C

This is the same.

D

C

That that we're.

D

C

D

Yeah yeah, so the code I'm gonna give to anybody who wants to do it, but what happened was that um sometime in the past um immediately after that, um the um sorry I'm just trying to find out? Oh there, we go okay.

D

uh What happened was that the professor, basically uh you know, took all my work and, as I was testing this and fine-tuning the algorithm, he actually went and said yes before he said no before I said no, and his word was god, so he actually agreed in concept that we would rearrange the board components to create this system and I'm going to now switch to a different picture. That's a different project called the cannibal project and the canva project was basically uh the uh evil twin of this thing.

D

This is cannibal project in in in in uh you know, construction. So this is us with nasa supervision. It looks totally different, but it's the same things but folded up into uh folded into uh you know, like uh you, know, different structures.

D

So what I'm going to do is I'm going to show you that in our new system, we can use high levels of integration and high levels of board to board connectivity, and uh you know different layout- supports in order to accommodate other things like battery packs and everything that that that technology uh you know is, is now possible because of cell phone technology. But really what happens is that when you are given all the parts you can literally allocate a corner of the spacecraft for propulsion, module check or- or you know, attitude module check this.

D

This was designed with a hole in the middle to accommodate somebody's uh idea of a reaction wheel system, and I was under eye chart obligation. I could not see what they did and they could not see what I did.

E

Right but yeah this was it.

D

I had to make a hole.

D

How do I make a hole that does what and I was just given the general blogger and like okay well anyway, but what I'm trying to say is that this was four engines uh that could be used for acs and attitude orbit. You know five four at a time you know, and and the modes were literally uh idle standby run fire and yeah.

D

If you're at run you better fire you're going to melt your pc board, yeah, okay, because you're generating so much you know energy, 40, amp, 40 amps at 250, microseconds, uh 30 volts, that's it! So that's why I was saying that when the capacitor bank that we're playing with, if nowadays, instead of a battery a heavily darn battery, if we just charge the capacitor for a glimpse of the sun, we can do it. Okay, lighter and.

C

D

C

So this is what we need to prototype coming up like the this is.

E

Your this is the.

C

This is the road map that you're preparing.

D

I I've got all the I've got everything anybody who wants it. They can just print another copy or we can just edit it. It's an eagle, it'll work, an eagle I didn't go professional.

C

Yeah we can actually straight publish the eagle stuff to the repository. I think we should do. Don't pick a choose, we should publish everything as soon as possible and then, if anybody really wants to convert it or update it, then they can. Then they have the original.

D

Yeah yeah, we don't need any fancy stuff. I mean this is all like. I I even made this uh stupid. uh You know I made this uh coil, I mean you know. Basically, like my back, you can see it's like it's. It's like. Okay,.

C

This is a little rough looking yeah.

D

Yeah, yeah and- and I'm just saying that I'm just saying that if you, if you look at the other one, which was sorry if you look at the you, know better ones as I s as I call them, because uh these were see that capacitor that's actually literally sitting, because I I had to route the high current wires, because there are four layers and five layers and that's this is a 1.2 kilowatt igbt. This thing will burn the hell out of anybody if anybody is even remotely touching it.

A

D

Mean because it will it's 1200 volts of you know switching capability well great, let's, let's put a transmitter on the other end of it right.

C

Yeah that's! This is what we need to demonstrate as soon as we can and to show that it is compatible and that we have a way to to make everything.

D

Cooperate, I mean I I I can I mean once once people are interested to see the rest of it. um You know, then we can. We can uh people.

C

Are already they're already interested and we.

A

C

Go ahead and publish it, and that will create even more interest.

D

And what's more funnier is that this the stuff went up with my uh labels and I don't know you can't see it. I can't find the photo, but it's a sharper picture exist with my call sign and all that and everything, and my family's name and my dog's name and everything. So nobody knows that very.

A

Good, okay, all right.

C

A

But that's what it.

D

Is I mean all of this was homebrew all right student working for peanuts, so.

C

D

C

We should be able to get back to this, at least this level and and beyond, really yeah.

D

With that, within two months within two months or three months, I mean it's just a question of sitting back and everything is still available. Everything is still available, there's nothing that has been obsoleted and uh the code is still running. I run it on my test bench all the time uh we could adapt the code. If you want, we can say we are tier on level eight. So that's the maturity of the system. Okay,.

A

D

Has shock and vibe and all that very well.

C

Good, then you you do not wait. Okay, don't hold back. Don't wait, don't wait for somebody to ask you. You know we move forward by with public. If we can publish everything we publish everything we.

E

Have to that's why.

D

C

That's how we're able to exist um so.

D

C

You're, if you're hanging around waiting for someone to be interested, you already have a huge amount of interest. We already we're trying very hard to raise the funds with our little summer fundraiser and we we're moving forward on that and and do.

D

We want any time in making any uh see. The thing is that to get qualification you know, process started and to transfer the knowledge I could start redesigning. I could start you know um refreshing the designs, you know tweaking it here and there and everything yes.

B

D

Think, like like this correction, I I know.

C

Yeah, I mean trust me.

E

C

Cute, you know, I mean.

E

B

D

Is it what is a.

C

Prototype without a blue wire.

D

Without a blooper, basically so yeah I mean this by the way. This is the day before this is the day before I handed it it's the day of the photograph. It went up there and we it. It was the working fix to everything, cool.

A

D

Really, the thing is that um the key is that if I keep the module consistent, it's only 40 bucks, okay, 40 bucks for a complete computer and everything it can theoretically be a flight computer. Okay,.

C

40 bucks, not bad all right. So yes, please start just please proceed because this is critical, stuff and it'll. You know if we don't get the propulsion done right then, um and down down.

D

If we want a little bit of, uh if we want sparks to fly, then some some board will have to be made. One of these days.

C

Today, let's start now, let's create boards, you know it. These are. These are boards that that we need to to uh that, we need working yeah and do they have to be.

C

I'm gonna say like what whatever you've got, um let's, let's go ahead and and get fresh ones and and then proceed as quickly as we can.

D

Yeah, no, no, no they'll work their work, there's plenty of space available on the boards, even in the current picture that you're seeing and trust me, I designed it. I know how much space I left inside because later I just was laced up and I just put a lot of traces everywhere. Just okay.

E

C

Then let's get started.

D

Okay, all right. Well, at least we have some high trl components that we can utilize. That's.

C

Right as a base.

D

C

And we have, we have like two more slides. You want to bang.

C

No thank thank you very much. I think this is actually so critical that um back uh it was about seven or eight months ago, when we had our last um technological or attack. We had like attack meeting. um You know: advisory committee, tech, technical advisory committee meeting for ori and at that meeting jan king talked about 47 gigahertz in particular, because it's a band.

D

No because the chips are not because analog called me or the yeah analog devices, they now own linear, but they called me on this issue because I was the idiot who took their uh ltm series to space. So 47 gigahertz is the chip that they want us to do something, and I I would love.

C

It yeah so 47 gigahertz is really really awesome for us because we're that's our primary we're primary on that band. Oh somebody is.

D

F

There's something in chat: you have a question yeah.

C

Sorry, I wasn't looking at the sorry. Oh can't get my mic to work in this ancient laptop with the site link for the oh, absolutely, yes, uh the the this. uh All of the meetings that we have like this are recorded and um will be published to the uh to ori's youtube account uh so that.

D

That we okay, so um in this slide, what we need to add in is um oh.

C

Sorry, hang on. Let me answer ac and then and then tell him that, yes, the not in addition to the video, then there will be all this like this document. All the revisions of this document will be published in a repo and any other documentation or the lists of things to do probably in trello. So the answer is: is yes, okay, sorry back to you, okay,.

D

So it won't, it won't be four thrusters it'll, be an array of thrusters at different points, different configuration, because this.

C

Is safe adjustment.

D

E

C

It says four at the bottom: okay, gotcha.

D

In those days in those days, the algorithms were, you know, just tuned to just four, because hey that's what we figured out, but I I'm I'm very comfortable with arrays. Okay.

F

D

It won't be george washington university, because there are many more derivatives of the the microcap now yeah.

A

D

Utilize, so we just want to canvas anybody: hey who got trusted. There are high trl. Let's.

C

Talk, and uh should I change this to ep as well.

D

Like it, okay ep and not even much because it's now no.

C

E

C

Just let's just so, we just say, ep and not gw.

D

Right but, however, the patent with the offer of the patent is important.

C

Let's include that, like as the first item, because I think.

D

Yeah so utilizing a synchronization system. uh um uh You know you know synchronization system um given by not given, but uh you know uh offered by gwu they offered it.

C

D

So we're clean we're good to go on that and they'll be happy that something is happening with their stuff.

C

Okay, so everywhere, where it says mucat or micro, cat striker,.

D

That's me: yeah yeah.

C

Mike is it is this, should I strike this whole point yeah just.

D

Call it vacuum up thruster at this point, anything just call it ep is just vacuum up, thruster, exactly.

C

D

um I would say: uh vacuum up truck, let's just say: micro, catalog, truster, micro and just get rid of that phrase. Micro, catalog, thruster and just call it v80.

C

D

Vacuum: turkey just call it vacuum: okay,.

C

D

C

And then micro propulsion.

D

2015 and kenny bell x, 2018., okay,.

E

If you don't mind.

C

Okay, this this one here, I'm sorry.

D

Yeah, at the end of it at the.

A

End of it, okay.

D

Yes, uh trl-8 nasa trl-8 nasa trl-8, okay, here 8 flight hardware.

D

Flight hardware uh uh uh tested on orbit um tested on orbit um brick set dash pbrica.

C

Sorry, there's a huge amount of lag for typing on something.

E

C

Being shared, so that's why it's so clumsy, okay,.

D

Test it on orbit, okay, on um brick, r, I c s a t, brick set dash, p dash p. I.

C

Know 2015. again it's uh it's a lot of lag. So it's okay.

D

Sorry, 2015 and cannibal x.

C

Cool, that's good, okay and then two mission, critical.

D

Businesses, charity raising maintenance and mission term now uh at the um the third uh that we need orbital.

C

Is it adjustment, okay, orbit.

D

Adjustment, yes orbit adjustment.

D

And here I'm referring to the fact that we need to change planes and on the do all the fun stuff to get into the correct uh phase of the correct uh plane of the orbit.

C

And this I think this needs to be reviewed.

D

Yeah red red: let's.

C

Put that in red and then I'm going to put the whole thing. That'll all fall.

D

Out of the yeah and and depending on how many years we want to fly uh at 1250, I mean given, drag we're going to have to do a link. We have to do an estimate of the total. You know. You know, delta b, that we need.

C

Okay, now, for the final, oh uh ac asks: are these xenon or argon ion.

D

No thrusters, no, no! These are just a metallic vapor vacuum arc, thrusters, clear and simple, a positive and negative terminal which are going to be uh excited with a brief um high current, very low voltage uh uh arc.

C

E

C

Oh sorry, pardon me.

D

No, I don't know if he heard that.

A

C

If he, if he needs to know anymore, then um or I'm assuming it's a he, I apologize if I have it wrong, um but if that's okay then.

D

Yeah yeah there's no guesses involved. It's just pure and simple solid-state materials, solid uh materials, solid terminals and pretty much a spark plug-in space.

C

Yes, he, okay, thank you and so metal ion question mark.

D

Well, okay, uh positive terminal being called anode negative terminal being called the cathode. The arc is created in a make and break scenario, which means that it's not continuous, it's just like you know it makes it breaks, it makes it breaks, it makes it breaks it, but at the point of where it touches that spot is instantaneously, heated up, liquefied ionized and we're assuming here a semiconductor of some kind or a conductor of some kind for the cathode terminal. But what happens that that metal, metal vapor gets converted into pla or elevated to plasma state?

D

And then it's self ex self um self, electric field and self magnetic field interact, and it actually accelerates because of the uh the the interaction of the negative j cross pre and it's out the door at 20 kilometers per second, oh.

C

He says, got it thanks all right and then I went ahead and put the the pulse plasma thruster uh and yes.

D

Yeah and- and we have to write the words that don't stand behind the thruster when it's testing do not do that, you're going to be coated with high-energy, uh uh ions and electrons, I mean basically ions it's going to coat you, which means that it, if you ever wanted to coat something in copper or or titanium.

F

D

Or whatever yep, by the way, caterer made more money with this, uh and I hats off to him with this with the derivative of this technology. So, okay, we.

A

D

A

D

Tell you biomedical engineers.

C

All right last slide looks like this is. um I think this is. This is an ex. Is this an experiment.

D

Well, it's useful.

C

Is it one of the experiments though, or is this it's.

D

Just I don't know.

E

I think okay, this is just.

C

A this is it's a teledyne total integrated dose device will be flown to continuously, monitor the in-flight cumulative dose units selected as a wide range of dose rates. It looks small enough. I mean, I guess, that's pretty neat interface to the spacecraft via a d I squared c telemetry.

D

Yeah, I would like to know it. I mean I would like to really know it in terms of or.

F

C

Are we passing.

D

Through you know, radiation clothes or something.

C

Yeah yeah, this is neat. I think we keep it. I mean, look it's it's not! It's not a like a whole you to do this, so it's pretty cool all right. That is the that's.

C

The deck we've been at it for for two hours, so I think it might be a good stopping point, um but let's go ahead and and go around to to, let everybody maybe add some if they think of any action items or any overall concerns or anything at all that we can put on the list of things to do now is a good time.

C

So just wind down with a with a concluding action item. I suppose that's the that's. What I'd like to hear anything anything bugging, you anything that stood out uh second thoughts about anything uh overall impressions.

C

So what do you think perhaps.

D

Ac, can uh you know uh just introduce him or herself please.

A

D

C

It said is uh the microphone not working and, and I'm sure, he'll catch up and and type, uh maybe a little more um if given if he has, if he has a chance uh and in the meantime uh sumio is there anything that you would advise us? Is there any advice that you have for us or anything any other action items that we need to take care of.

C

Okay, sumio says: okay, no additional one, okay and but sumio. If there is anything that you can think of.

E

C

Anything um that would help us uh or or any anybody that we should talk to uh just let me know, and I'll do my very best. I would really like to make a good presentation uh for, for you and your wonderful club, no and ac says uh just interested in sat comms, uh not an expert, uh well you're in the right place. You do not have to be an expert to to join up.

C

You just have to willing be willing to become more of one along the way, and he gives us calls k j, six g y c.

D

Yeah, I'm I'm entry rdx, um which I don't think uh I think I think I wrote it somewhere in my calls, and um one thing uh michelle, uh I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to actually say that part of the the work of proposing is to give the the confidence that we can execute a complex project like this.

D

You know, even if it's part of somebody else's mission, but if we don't have the word systems, engineering or space systems, engineering somewhere in our presentation, then kind of people, you know, might think it's just an amateur. But but really what we're doing is systems engineering. We just got to say that we're going to do spaces of engineering, because it's a set of practices. It's not a given spreadsheet. It's actually a set of practices that take the whole design and and then propose a framework to execute it, which you've been already doing.

D

So you might as well just make sure that it says somewhere in the in the thing in the introduction, yeah.

E

But there is a there's.

D

A space mission, analysis and design handbook, which everybody is a bible, it's a red book and there's a chapter in which a very interesting fire site is decomposed into a page. That's it that that is the top level page could be the introduction to the presentation.

C

Yeah the what I have here in this slide deck um is only part of the presentation from 2014, so there could have been um some other other papers or or and what what undoubtedly happened was. It was put up on the screen and the the several people that were that gave this. That helped give this presentation mainly, I believe it was so jan king and and others um then spoke.

C

You know, and if we had a recording that'd, be pretty cool.

E

C

We do have uh a pretty healthy amount of of systems, engineering, competence and expertise all across ori, and we have a number of people who are either currently employed professionally in aerospace, with lots of different columns people. You know a variety of people, we do have some thing.

C

There are some things like, for instance, uh you saw here, thermal was one was one slide and it was blank um and we have a similar problem and that we don't have uh thermal experts, so um we're gonna need help from every from lots of different places and we do have help and we have several organizations that are interested in assisting. So as we unroll this, um what might be kind of a different experience is that we're doing this in public? So we are.

C

We are having these meetings that all we are publishing everything we are going to have to uh rewind some things that we decide. That will inevitably happen. So I guess the only advice I have is to to be. You know to embrace uh open a process, so it's not just open source but also an open process. uh So so there may be some discomfort along the way, especially if you, if we really don't, know something and that's that's: okay, the expertise and the the systems engineering.

C

You know uh sort of street cred comes after the hard work that we have I've already done, and so far with our comm stuff at all, right and and the work that we're going to be doing so I I take your comment to heart and I I think that the expertise will will show through sure.

D

Just one last suggestion: it just struck me that you already have uh in if you go back to the original slide of the original picture, 2014 vintage of the antennas on the spacecraft.

C

Yeah, let's see where that was.

D

B

D

At 1250 yeah, if we're at 1250 kilometers and we've got a omni antenna at one l-band omni antenna. Let's say: theoretically, that's what we have.

D

Assuming that we can. You know, improve the antenna, radiation, uh antenna, beam with characteristics and everything, because we're going to maintain attitude facing uh the the the patch antennas are going to be facing earth. You know that's the whole point.

D

We could theoretically propose that certain times we could be the relay for future cubesat missions who need to downlink data fast and they're out of the range of the ground station, but they're in the range of a higher flying orbit, we'd be at mini tdrs, a data relay satellite.

D

We would take it and we would send it back.

C

Keep it in mind we might be able to.

D

C

Off and we'll we'll let the operator uh decide how much risk they want to take all right, and there was one more question from from ac any optical spectral observations regarding atmospheric gases or pollutants.

D

Well, a sensor, everybody mentioned a sensor. Basically a sensor.

E

Would wavelength.

D

Yeah sure I mean if it's pointing towards the earth the middle section of that uh face the uh the uh uh the zenith phase, yeah.

A

D

C

That would be kind of cool because it's a it's a sort of a classic technique, at least in machine learning, um which uh thomas might might actually be able to um to to speak to this. um Yes,.

D

Yes, that's why I wanted to bring him along, because he has the the the recent knowledge of as of this semester. He did his all bachelor's into the masters we, but yes, that that would give him the science payload. He would be a.

C

Scientist yeah, it's it's a it's a really since essentially sensor fusion to to look at optical. You know optical spectral observations regarding the the thing that makes 24 gigahertz interesting the moisture in the atmosphere. So you would have the radio itself as a sensor and then, if you combined that with a spectral observation who knows what you might find, uh we.

D

Are finding out all sorts of stuff.

C

All the time I mean this is, I think it's an excellent idea.

D

uh You'd get uv sensors uh very cheaply, uv and ir at different. You know resolutions, of course, but yeah. The answer is with that phase, which is ten. This is a six year right, so it's 30 by 20 by 10., so that is a 10 by 20. Apart literally that we could utilize. I mean, of course, minus the area required for the horn antennas, but still there's possibility that we could actually pop out of like a big whatever sensor, and we can do it. We could do it.

C

Okay, I know I put it in a kind of a clumsy way, because every time I I hit carriage return, it wants to capitalize the next line, but I wanted to capture the the point of it.

D

No, this would not be a polar orbit as much as it would be a um I mean since we're powered we set our orbit where we're going to try to cover japan, latitude and australia, literature and I just checked the latitudes they're the same so therefore, if we just cover japan to australia, we're good to go we'll cover the rest of the world. Thanks.

C

Cool okay, any last comments from anybody before we close.

D

Do we have to speak japanese, to figure out the commands to the spacecraft? That's my question.

C

You know we, we will have all sorts of help with that, but no.

E

C

We will not have to do anything that we are incapable of doing. I encourage anybody that wants to to try to learn some japanese. This is an excellent opportunity, but no you don't have to yeah. I think we're we've made some good progress here. Okay,.

A

We got work cut out for us.

C

uh And what I've done is I've signed us up for the september uh qso today uh as a presentation about this project, so that gives those of us that, like to sign up for these sorts of things, a big fat deadline, that'll be in mid-september and uh looking forward to it.

C

That will so that will focus the mind and we will I'll try to pull together as many people as possible to update it and then at that, it's a really nice show if you have not attended qso today, a ham expo, it's virtual only so it's a it's an online experience and it's a lots of different talks uh at places to to circulate and meet people and an international crowd. So a lot of different countries uh represented every year in the statistics.

C

um So when we present, we will do something uh similar, not not as long, but we will show walk through the presentation. uh We get an hour-long slot. Most talks are about 25 minutes and then the rest is q, a so it's an extended q a session. So what I think we will do is give a general overview of what we're trying to to to attempt here with this proposal and then pick out some aspects, uh maybe just one or two and really go go into the detail.

C

I would I would my feeling is that we should attack uh propulsion, uh because, because we have your time and talent and we have the the patent and we and that we have to get the propulsion in order, um and so that's kind of my feeling about about what we should do in terms of really leveraging the event. So since the schedule is is kind of announced in advance, and we can make it very clear that we are looking for sort of an interactive, please bring your q a and your advice, comment and critique. Welcome.

C

You know, and uh you know that's what we'll we'll have and by mid-september. So I think that will that will help us improve this so be prepared to to start start doing stuff. This would be really great if we could um have some some results to share by september.

C

Let's see, I'm a molecular biologist with a oh wish, a bio experiment would be included. Well, so I can't share a lot, but we do have a company, a group that that we are collaborating with that. Does biological experiments in space, so we are very excited about it. I hope it all works and- and there eventually will be more public opportunities as soon as as that moves forward. So um so please keep your keep listening for that ellen I'll, be able to announce all that as soon as possible.

C

If it all all works out, so there there are opportunities and the uh and- and there are some uh some potential uh places that we can have. um You know more more activity for for biological stuff, so very exciting. That's all I can say, uh but it's uh it exists and um and we're helping.

C

And yeah, if we have, if we have room and if if jam set, was willing, then then um you know I'm sure, there's there has to be somebody that would be interested in that.

C

D

When would you hear back from a jam set then um well not before we finish this presentation.

C

Right, we, I don't know, uh I don't have a schedule or any expectations, um and they they could. They could uh send it back to us and say it needs more work or they could say it's not the direction we want to go or they could say we love it and we want to move forward and we we will gratefully and graciously accept any feedback and and whatever decision they give us. So I.

E

C

Have a schedule for that, but I'm I suspect that the answer would be pretty quick.

D

Sure great thanks very much uh michelle um and.

C

uh Yeah, no thank you for your time. This has been great and I'm looking forward to um for to talking with thomas again, I hope he's interested in in being part of it.

D

Yeah I'll give him feedback and I'll ask him to pass your if it pass his email to you. Okay,.

C

Thank you. Thank you. So much.

D

Thanks very much very much.

C

Yeah, thank you. Samia goodbye.