Open Source Ecology Development Team, 27 Mar 2018

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From YouTube: OSE Developer Meeting - Mar 27, 2018

Description

Notes:

1. Midwest RepRap Festival
2. 3D Printer - Ohio
3. Power Cube, 80 hp
4. OSE Piping Workbench integrated with Flamingo Workbench in FreeCAD
5. Development Process Roadmap

See Notes at

http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Development_Team_Log

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A

A

Then also, you know, move the y-axis to the the PVC tubing that creeps my framed I've been there.

B

Yeah yeah yeah yeah decrease the frame size definitely would help.

A

B

And you've got the phat phat height sensor. That's good mm-hmm.

A

B

Yeah and if you get a chance like try to put placeholders with for some of the wiring, how that's gonna go cuz, you got to account for all of that. So it's not a mess at the end and mounting.

A

B

A

How to move those around in CAD seems like it'll, be a little bit crazy, I think I can just use circular edge constraints and I'll find them under the Asian point straight thinking.

A

I have a have some stuff over here and have some scrap that I kind of have some rods and them my calipers here, and these parts and Stephen are really helping me visualize this stuff, as am answering it in the CAD.

A

B

A

For my cuz really I mean mining my dimensions for my rod, the perfect spot on and I need to know where my wire management's gonna go. Those are the key things here.

A

Think I'm a leaf there, where I know my rod. Lengths are correct. It looks like it's gonna be 500 millimeters.

C

A

Yeah, my calculations really want to kind of prove that too, because um so any realtor, my notes here, but some of the issues I had- would buy a free cab. Today, uh-huh.

D

A

Do I move dimensions, the text that displays the dimensions.

B

How do you move the town aisle if you can't just do them, delete them and draw them again? Yeah.

A

B

Other there's another way to do it. There's there's annotations: I haven't really worked with annotations within free code, but there's.

A

B

Actually, on a free, CAD, 101 page, let me paste this in the notes here annotations. There is a tutorial on annotations yeah, it's on the Freak head, 101 page, it's the last thing. I actually ran into it the other day, but unfortunately it's in Spanish, but it was a good one. You can almost like get what they're saying they're.

A

500 millimeters, just like a mile high above the model, I money specified where that dimension is displayed on the bottom I mention and use the Move command and draft to move into a different location. All.

B

A

In return to the location after enter, you have to move around I guess: I am at work.

E

I use the part measurement tool, a lot, I see measurements and plus it gives you like: deltas and I'll catch, a pun. Look in there, Duke.

D

E

It's the part of workbench okay, sometimes that's the dimensions tool is usually less accurate or it can be, but I can easily use it more because sometimes it's hard to use the measurement tool on certain spots. Yeah.

A

E

Dimensions tool lets you click anywhere.

E

Measurement tool in part bench.

E

Or that we like right, if you have a bunch of energy.

E

A

Yeah I just have my huge list of stuff I wish free cat did that Autodesk it does and thought work. Does the tracking off an object and moving your dimensions around, but you.

B

A

Like this dimension displayed and you can execute the Move command on it and the dimension does move on the screen, you just you know bound to X, Y or whatnot, whatever you're playing you're looking at move it around but upon pressing enter. It doesn't go.

A

Might be constrained, oh okay, I'll, try use another tool and the part workbench that should help if they really want you I really want these calculations. I want is a critical national, given the right in front of them when they're looking at it, yeah.

B

But that yeah, but but that's um that thing you get out of the drawing dimensioning workbench, though that's that's, probably the better way to do it of the drawing dimensioning, where you just make make technical drawings with all the dimensions in there. So you probably save it for later.

E

E

B

Yeah I mean you can do what what I suggest is. Like the you know, you you have to it's more about. I would say like if you move the yeah. If you move the extruder head around yeah just doing the screen captures, you can read that stuff off the off the drawing there, but at the end of the day, we're gonna make fabrication drawings for this. So so you don't need to put this in here.

B

It's gonna be more in the drawings, for the individual parts like like the thing you have to do at the end is okay: what's the exact length of the tubes? What's the exact location of the holes and stuff like that,.

B

Yeah, yeah and and for the holes on a Z Z members, we're gonna jig that we're gonna put that put that member on a jig and drill that using a jig. So.

A

Yeah over there yeah right.

E

E

To generate vector, graphics, that are blocking light of objects and we did language, agnostic instructions.

E

A

Yeah, you know maybe I think my quick goal here is I want to move around that Shore to the back rebound. The rely axis that three verify that my extruder can travel full length of the bag.

A

The axis, though, so the 12 inch bed is in the middle, but how did that and kind of try to look around? How does the.

B

Rods, it's long rods that okay.

A

You don't see: where can you yeah.

B

Long rods, through those through the short idler pieces, you put short idler pieces on it, mm-hm.

A

B

And they're just clamped down and the short idler is, is done through that nut catcher.

A

B

Like the X to Y is caught with a nut catcher.

B

Yeah, how do you connect the x axis to the y axis, there's uh nut catchers on end pieces and that's yeah.

A

B

No, no! It's just bolts, six millimeter, your six millimeter bolts that go through the Y piece inside into the X and pieces.

A

A

In front of me right.

B

B

B

Are you good to go? Let can we move on to Abe, okay, hey, let's, uh let's do it so I see you did some more detail on I draw.

B

Yeah yeah we're gonna have to put in I'm thinking. Probably the best way would be to do the kind of like we talked about a little bit about rails, like like a structure where you slide into power cubes and be a 2x2 inch angle. Frames connected to the mainframe.

B

E

B

Okay, as long as it's yeah as long as it's accurate and the right thing yeah, but if it's not then start a new one and make the appropriate changes because you don't want to make little changes on an old version because then we're mixing versions. So as long as it's identical, that's acceptable, but if it's not, you must copy it and fork it to a new new entry. You know.

B

Right I mean idea is that you've got here's the theory you've got the development template. You've got the entry that you can click on it and, for example, like power. Cubes 1711 can't have that seven there without an entry to a link. So that's you know he writes that seven. There.

B

But but whoever, but wherever you have an entry when I click on it, it leads me to somewhere, but- and that has to be correct for the current version. Now, if it's pointing to an old version, that's fine as long as there's absolutely no changes, because as soon as there's any little change and you need to you need to start a new link because then you're mixing, then you'd be mixing versions. So that's the part.

B

You have to be very careful about, because if you say oh well, I'm just gonna make this little change on an old one. Well, then, you've just messed up the the correctness of the old one. If that old one is a little different, you know.

E

B

Yeah can go up and down, and that's that's fine, because if you find that we need to do something more over that we were incorrect, yeah, that's fine. We have to correct the burndown yeah.

E

B

Yeah, definitely, if you, if you yeah yeah, please do please start down.

E

B

If there's a minut change, then yeah that just needs to be reflected and and the notes yeah I mean that you can put a note, saying: okay, change log of right on that page, like whatever you change this so.

E

A

We're we have like you know, for each file. We have different revisions of the file kind of on the wiki for the file, but no mark.

B

A

Put together a genealogy document or starts you for the pretty printer, maybe you know, like tracking the rats, have a genealogy page showing how each there.

B

Is there is yeah there is life truck genealogy already, but the main thing to keep in mind simply is that every single entry in a genealogy needs to have its development spreadsheet, for it to be fully documented.

A

B

So there's a lot of what I mean that, like you know, life track genealogy with like nine different versions, already there's a lot of work there, it's all over the wiki, but you can from the genealogy.

B

That's the best place to track everything yeah and going forward making sure that whenever we have a new version, we document everything under that as opposed to trying to you know: change yeah, never ever changed an old version documentation when you're working on a newer version, because that makes the former documentation incorrect, because people think it applies to the old version and it's actually for the new version yeah.

B

So that's just the only thing to keep in mind yeah and that's why you know, as time goes on, we'll probably get get this refined more like get better systems as we as we go along just create better systems, but right now I mean that's it's the best. We can do right now.

E

E

B

But the thing is after so say: we we do the the micro track, the next version, or whatever I mean the problem, is that we have not gotten to a product release like a real okay. We we say this is a feature freeze. This is our official version. I mean we got to sit down and say: okay, we do it here. We have actually not done that at all for the attractor.

B

So for every project we have to say: okay, this is our official version right now there might be versions that are going into the future, but this is our stable release. So we have to declare something: okay. This is the stable release and should get as much documentation as possible with every every everything that's needed. For that to be complete, I mean you can actually say that I might even take that back and I can say we do have a stable version in the civilization started. Kid version 0.01.

B

Those four machines are fully documented for what they were in like 2012, so we do have that. We just never had another release like fully published, because we were just doing too many things. There's too many things that are being developed so yeah, but that that needs to happen eventually mm-hmm and that's why we need a team for every every project, like a full full-time team, for every project.

B

Right right and it's yeah and actually in a template, the way to do it without messing up the template, because basically the the burndown parses, a certain I'm, actually not sure I, think it just the reads: reads: the total done column, but if we make a more advanced version of the reader like if you even change the number of changes, the number of rows in principle, the the burndown algorithm should say: okay, we've you now you erased one because it wasn't relevant.

B

Well, your percentage total done went up because the number of items was became smaller or, if you add some, you know you have to that's another thing to do and then the burndown would change automatically. But right now, as long as you don't delete any lines you get, you can still like erase some things or just cross them out and put a ten by him or something yeah. Probably the.

E

Lexa's count for that for the burndown it reads to whatever cell you tell.

E

B

But but in a twenty and a twenty step burned down, I mean it definitely should have every single one filled out. Like you know, requirements we probably talked about them, but we may never have written them down. Industry standards like all of them are important like and probably for a lot of them. Like say industry standards. We can refer to alder work because we probably have done that before and stuff like that. So.

B

Let's see: do we have a webinar on the development template I? Don't think we really have one? That's that's something definitely to do, and that's some of the things that I really need to do for the immersion training just to have people at least give them a decent reference on what we're doing with each thing. Oh yeah, that I don't see any videos on a development template yeah. We need to do that.

E

B

Yeah because there was 33 lines, if it's not 33 lines, then that needs to be changed.

B

33, if it's by 33, no, you need to change it divided by 20 by 200. So, okay, that might be an error there. So yeah we got to fix that I.

B

Mean let me let me take a look at that make sure the development template. Let me look in there what, whether the template itself is got the correct.

E

That must've been for the long.

E

B

Ya know that that's wrong the the long one is wrong. That should be four five. That should be four 430, not 330, because there's 43 in a long one, so I just fixed that and for the short one I.

B

Fixed it in them yeah! No, that's wrong. I should be divided by 200 right, so yeah, so you just burned down quite a bit right just by doing that.

B

Yeah yeah and I fixed the original templates on that yeah. It's divided by two hundred and four four hundred thirty by that for the other one yeah. Okay, sorry about dial is my bad on that to keep the source template. Accurate, mm-hmm, yeah.

B

B

Okay, let's see Abe what are your next things on the on your plate?.

B

Yeah: okay, okay,.

B

Open-Source photogrammetry I was gonna, ask you do you? Have you ever played with photogrammetry take a look at yeah.

B

There is take a look at.

E

B

E

A

B

Here here you go open-source photogrammetry.

A

B

There might be some there might be some, but take a look at open-source photogrammetry. The recent video by Joseph Prusa I think we should try that and see if that works, because so, if you ever get a chance to look into that, do because that may be a way to do it. You just take pictures and then use these a couple of pieces of software Hughes's. It's called call map Co LM ap, and then he uses meshlab to clean it up.

B

So if you look at dopest open-source photogrammetry I was thinking. I keep thinking about the the engine things like the engine, hydraulic pumps. We should we should scan them, and but we probably have to spray paint them with, as I mentioned, with with some black paint. So it's not not shiny.

E

B

Take a look at the first video but ya.

E

B

You don't it that's where the software comes in the software. Does the calculations.

E

B

No just take a bunch of pictures and that's it and you just process the images yeah it's interesting, because if we could do useful, 3d scans without really anything, I know that there's gonna be a little bit of effort and post-processing, because you got to clean up the images a little bit, but we should definitely figure out a workflow for that.

E

B

E

B

Correct but whatever you do it, even if it's a diffused light and you have a shiny surface, just you, you still won't do well. It.

E

Just doesn't work.

B

Well with it so, but definitely it definitely would be useful. So, for example, we could we could have that be part of the documentation like our jams, our development jams, that's called OSC jams like a development jams, part of it like, for example, we could do photogrammetry during those two so say you know, I bring the hydraulic pump and someone works on that as one of the many tasks in the jam. You know that would be cool, so we can, for example, put in a more more accurate version of the pump for the power cube.

B

You know so things like that could be could be done also within the framework of a Development Jam, so that that's, why that's? Why I like it, because it doesn't require any any equipment? Your camera.

E

Yeah yeah yeah.

B

Yeah yeah I, guess I guess that's probably possible, but I know that it could probably like. If you apply AI, it might fill in like gaps by understanding that this is some kind of object which is already trained to trained to recognize yeah.

A

Be able to use those features reconstruct the rat, so you don't have.

E

B

The current problem is that when you generate these, these 3d scans you, you start with a point cloud. You have to convert it into mash and then that's with mesh lab and then after that, if you import it into free CAD, free CAD can't work with meshes well. So probably our last processing step is someone actually takes that and redraws it within free CAD, but at least they have a an accurate template. That's been 3d scanned, so they might have to redo it to reduce the file size or just to eliminate unneeded detail, but yeah.

B

That's what I'm saying the the workflow is not easy, but now hopefully one day we automate that completely, where we go from a bunch of pictures to a freakin file format and that's why we need a team to do this kind of stuff build our team. So we can actually get some programmer to you know say you know: one person could probably spend six months working out that whole tool chain. You know to do it properly and efficiently.

E

B

E

Trains that are just referencing.

B

E

Faster car, like I've, been working on.

E

E

B

That's right: that's right!.

B

Yeah, okay, yeah: let's let's wrap up here then so: yeah yeah, good stuff, we'll continue doing it and by the end of the air, we're gonna have four to twelve full-time people. This is gonna, be good.

F

B

B

F

F

F

Design experimental I need to one everyone who use it, but the future vintages. For example. If you will add.

F

F

B

Share the screen.

B

New York saying WOW every day a new baffling workbench being developed. All right York is one of the starters of freecad. So that's good. Oh.

F

B

Oh, yes, he's a he's, a professional architect using free CAD.

F

A

B

No I I don't see your screen, but okay, it might be. Let's see it yeah there, it is there. It is go ahead.

F

Now I can change the dimensions, for example, length.

F

Pipe diameter without.

B

Okay, because you were struggling up how to do that before and what's was the or discovery. How do you do it.

F

B

So tell me tell me what, so, how is it integrated into.

F

B

F

F

B

Do you change those dimensions you do it through? You can do. How do you do it.

F

B

Under properties, okay, okay,.

F

B

F

B

I see this is great all right. So uh huh so are you claiming that so is this the definition of done for what you need to do with the.

A

B

Then you might resolve your existential crisis by saying how many hours total you will save people in the future.

F

I wanted to ask John some of you. You can think you mentioned. You had some some troubles. Oh.

A

Yeah yeah I'll send an email about here's, the fog, yes, ai, rendering an object not like you know some millimeters long for an axis and for the 1 inch schedule, 40 pipe and your dimension appeared to be the law of actual so creature. When you render PVC pipe whatever the dimension for access to say, I specify dimension for the y axis say I said: I wanted 485 millimeters. You would actually make full dimension of the thing 585 millimeters plus.

A

What is it here.

A

Five known eaters, which is you know the dimension of the pipe and so yeah I'll say you know, I.

F

Will try to find a thousand then at the fix Obispo. Thank you for your feedback.

F

F

D

A

Know, despite accounting.

A

You never want people working around your stuff and not reporting bugs never never good to be a software developer. How how always report bugs.

B

No that's good.

D

F

What's the question to.

F

You create some elbows.

F

Maybe I also can create elbows, which you can later use.

E

Yeah actually probably work see if I can generate something close to penetrate the specs for.

F

And then I will try to enter long elbow the local balls. They will in 90 degree elbows, which my.

F

My rotten vegetable.

F

F

B

Yeah so he's saying that one of your learnings is that when you have scheduled, say 40 pipes, I mean the same dimensions apply for PVC as, for example,.

F

B

But the dimensions are saying: the dimensions are the same.

F

B

Okay, that's good, so we can use this for other things, but the geometry like, for example, for a fitting like that.

E

B

E

To saddam, it's not really that important right, so some of those other dimensions or shapes aren't as critical for just the pipe size. So.

F

E

Threads are too complex, I mean we've been avoiding those I guess two dimensions, but I've been going with are to just go to the inside of the thread which I think you know. If you look at them like apt, size, charts or pipe size chart, you get the dimensions to the inside.

B

Yep, okay, now a good job and then looking at your contribution in the top 20 leaderboard right now, you're at 233 hours, almost almost almost our developer, you're getting really good all right.

F

B

Yeah yeah. Definitely so you mean you you'll, edit it down just to refactor the wiki.

F

B

F

B

Good, that's good and, of course, the old stuff will remain in a history too, for anyone who wants to see it if they do yeah.

F

F

B

Unless we use it, we wouldn't know I mean no. No, like.

E

Yes, madam, maybe except up why some sense I can't think of one average standard. As the dimension elbow you know, I try to orient more complex objects so that the vertical direction is the z axis is because that's the standard in physics and engineering I think generally right.

D

A

Yeah there's some rules to applying the third angle projection on a CAD diagram. If you have a CAD diagram, you're gonna have the central, so you have three renderings I could share my screen.

A

There's a standard for that.

A

A

So you can look at a topic called third angle projection and just what ends up being.

A

So drawing one in this, so you have a drawing a 2d CAD, drawing of something so the drawing one right there. For instance, that might be the X D here.

A

There you're going to have another drawing up here, really.

A

F

2D drawing how.

G

A

Translate a 2d drawing to three dimensions: it's caught in the international standard. It's called third angle projection, so it's good here might be better.

D

A

Sure yeah there you go.

A

Click the button now.

A

So yeah research, this third angle projection. This is how a 2d objects translates the three dimensions, so you're gonna have a essential drawing here, which will be so. What would you call this? The X D or the X, the profile of the object and just top you and then you're gonna have another.

A

Cool yeah any Q: this is my cat class and drawing class. The third angle projection standards for translating a 2d drawing in 3d, yep I. Think.

A

Off the stuff, with the isometric grid paper and a pencil, this is how you rendered a 3d object and you have hidden lines and all the rest like.

F

My questions, for example,.

F

A

Right, and so this right here is this rendering right here could be considered on my screen here. This elbow this is my standard dot right. There is.

A

F

F

But now I will use all the things. This is how.

A

Yeah right yeah, these kind of things always ask me about, like you know, yeah CAD standard stuff, like that I have only five years out of school and I. Think I remember some of it.

A

B

Right good job, so I think that's about it. For now, then, is that any other issues or questions.

A

B

A

B

And build the team: okay.

A

There that you know hash out the main standards to be the main core company will be there. Yeah.

B

Yeah yeah, just yeah I've, got to make that a priority. Okay! Well thanks a lot guys and yeah I mean, and as far as all you guys, I keep inviting different people to the team, but yeah. If you see people I can join our team, bring them in yeah, okay! Well, thanks a lot everybody so we'll talk again next Tuesday and we'll we'll talk, then thanks a lot. Mm-Hm yeah, but like.