Open Source Ecology Development Team, 22 May 2017

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From YouTube: CNC Torch Table + Filament Maker - Team Meeting - 5/22/17

Description

As team numbers grow, we are breaking off to a dedicated team working on the CNC Torch Table and 3D Printer Filament Extruder.
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A

Recording good people, so we've got everybody as needed. Thank you for joining, so let me share the document the working document on the cnc torch table, so today's meeting is on a cnc torch table for the first half hour, 11 to 11:30 and then 11:30 we're going to get into the filament maker part. So the main people for now on the cnc torch tables we've got chas oliver and abraham. As far as doing some real technical development on that basic based on the fire work of what we have already with osc so for background.

A

Let me share the document here, so please see the document. Let me actually probably share the permission, so everyone can edit.

A

Abraham and oliver, you guys can hear, and I you guys can speak.

A

A

Thank kena Oliver cannot speak, but here and see well. Okay, Chaz can speak about Abraham Wow.

B

A

That's good good good, okay. Oliver says he can't speak Oliver because you don't have a microphone or something or.

A

Normally, it works, but this time it doesn't okay, it's the jitsi huh yeah well, should try to troubleshoot it yeah yeah. You could probably figure it out later, so you can do the text that will be they'll be acceptable for now, but definitely want to get that communication channel ripped a little more open.

A

We've got a baswell, okay, excellent guys. The document I'm going to type it in again for people just joined.

A

Okay, that's a working document. So, let's start with where we are in the torture table as far as OSC goes and background history of what we've done so far, and what what's to be done done now, so the history actually goes back to if you, google, the OSC work throughout the years back in 2011.

A

Actually, we had a first instance of the CNC torch table and that was using EMC, which is Linux, which is called linuxcnc using a laptop, a laptop that actually had a parallel port and because parallel ports are kind of rare these days, and we want to work with normal laptops without going. You know, having too much disadvantage on equipment, we'd like to definitely have a USB run, USB controlled, so Linux teensy works only on USB. So it's it's not one of the greatest, but we did get it going.

A

We cut a lot of the tractor parts back in this was back in 2011. When we had the big production run of all the tractor, you might have seen some of the pictures we produced a lot of the wheel mounts which were basically rings with bolt holes. So, basically, a bunch of precision stuff that saved us countless hours and having do that torching manually, and that was using half-inch steel at that time. So over the years we've tried again a couple of times to do that.

A

To finish up the torch tape, we had some people over the summer. We actually worked on a capacitive height sensor, because the thing that we haven't done the first time around was we just had the the torch moving around, but without high control. That means that the metal bends or if you're a surface like upon heating metal, is going to bend or upon traveling the whole surface of the metal. If it's uneven, you get a worse quality cut. The cut is not as good.

A

If you don't follow the metal very closely to about you know like three millimeters, maybe an eighth inch up to maybe a quarter inch. You have to be very close to the metal to get a good cut. So at that time we just did small pieces, just maybe like one square foot pieces of metal that were cutting one by one. So it was easy to keep the height adjusted properly just by leveling the metal workpiece. Now the metal workpiece is a big sheet say that weighs 640 pounds. You can't do that.

A

You have to move the torch. You have to adjust the torch throughout that whole metal piece. So that's the idea there height control is the main thing that's missing for us. We know how to do motion.

A

So if we go back to the document motion we have so what we want to do this time around is use our universal axis, using bigger shafts to do a CNC torque shape. So, instead of using the five, the 5/16 shafts or eight millimeter, we use much bigger shafts about one inch, 25 millimeter shafts, so that we can support a much larger, much larger device going onto slide 2. So we have the universal axis. We do have the 1 inch printed piece design.

A

This is Oliver's replication there with a 5/16 inch, but we do have the 1 inch printed pieces and we actually printed some of those out. It appears to be working. We never put together an axis using the 1-inch pieces, but that's what you can do so prior work also involves the capacitive height control circuit. We actually designed one and have that going, but we never got it all up and running. There's a lot of prior work on that we have a full design of the capacitive control circuit.

A

You can read more about that and we have never run automatic gas control on that. But basically, if you have a CNC torch, we're talking we're not talking about plasma, we're talking about the simplest minimum viable product, so I have slide number 3 here as far as what that minimum viable product is. That means using something: that's accessible in low resource environments or the advanced world. But what does that mean? So don't need a plasma cutter if you've got a torch handle that beam up.

A

The idea here is actually use oxy fuel, which is except we already people already use, or we already use oxy oxy acetylene.

A

So the question here is just don't without getting a plasma cutter, just use, oxy fuel and modify the torch handle slight slight modification on the torch handle allows you to use the same gas system that you already have in a shop, so this is once again thinking about the minimal part count and the whole global village. Construction Set is a system where you have the absolute minimum without going into specialized tools like without going into a specialized torch chemicals.

A

Typically, when you do a CNC torch table, you use a specialized three hose torch, which has automatic gas control on that. But here we can. We can hack a regular torch handle so point here to on the design requirements. Here, it's not three hose away. Let me share my screen, so you guys know what I'm talking about here.

A

So you can look at look at one point, I'm in a document so look at this: can you guys see that so I'm pointing to this part here? Let's see, can you guys see it yeah? It looks like you can see it so uses a standard torch handle. We don't need to go with a special three hose torch handle, which is just another piece will cost you like. You know at least a hundred more dollars for adjust the the torch. The handle part, the metal part, no need for that, just more parts, more tips.

A

You know it uses different torch tips and, like there's a bunch of different parts that you don't need, so we can do simpler and for now the minimum product is just use a bunch of our very tiny, NEMA 17 motors. So if we use a larger axis, we can do multiple, very small motors like they're, each about a hundred inch ounce, but it's it's sufficient and we want to explore what the limits are for multiplying those very small stepper motors.

A

So, for example, if you look at this design here, we can have a stepper motor one on each side like if you have this design of a gantry. This is showing more of like a like a router, but we have this kind of a design. Then we can put a stepper motor here there there and there in the four corners. So you can have plenty of force and then still use the tiny six millimeter belt.

A

You only need a you know like ten pounds of force, to pull this stuff around. It's non-contact for a router that might not do for torch. It's acceptable. So we can do similar here on the x-axis, which is the short axis here, input one two, three four stepper motor, so you have plenty of power for the Z you can do like like two stepper motors or even one. This is the symmetric design is a nice one. The symmetry is always good and design anyway.

A

Don't need to go to bigger motors. Nema 17 would do for now. Okay, next point, so we're working on a ramps controlled so ramps the same driver board, but using external stepper driver. So that's what Chas is working on he's he's, putting together a system using larger external drivers and then eventually you want to go to well. Let me look at this: the phases of development so to get a basic table working you need.

A

You need these four things so standard torch handle email, seventeen motors with one and one-inch Universal axis larger stepper motor controller capacitive sensor. So that's like I'm going to emphasize the capacitive sensor, that's kind of like a lot of what the work has to the future work that we need to do. Make that thing work.

A

So we've got the design we got to make it work, so I'm going to emphasize that so with that you get full motion with capacitive sensor, meaning that you're you're following the metal following the height of the metal on the tunne on a CNC torch table and the relevance of the CNC torch table to back up slightly we're going to be doing a lot of tracks for the bulldozer, the or the larger tractor we're going to make track tractors this year, we're probably going to build at least two, so I can tell you from last year's experience, or this was two years ago.

A

Actually we cut a lot of that by hand last two years ago. It's just getting to really like impossible. It's too much cutting, so the CNC would really help on making tracks and other car so very important, and then, of course, to for the first time to start manufacturing our brick presses and tractors using all in-house torch cutting, which we typically, we have outsourced that to date, since our torch table wasn't really up to up to full speed.

A

But full motion with capacitive sensor gets us a very important piece that the capacitive sensor makes that a complete system there and initially what we can do I'm thinking we can do if we use a regular torch, handle a regular torch handle. You depress the torch to to do the cutting gas.

A

What I'm thinking for that right now and we should definitely try this we've got our universal axis that can serve as a small actuator make a tiny Universal axis a few inches long using our small NEMA 17 stepper motor make a little actuator that moves back and forth to actually hit the lever manually so attach a small Universal axis. That function is not for motion control like XYZ motion, but more just to bump something, and that something is our lever that we bump to turn on the cutting gas. So that's what I'd like to do.

A

That's that allows us to use the non-specialized a torch table handle, in other words, using a standard oxyfuel torch handle. We can make that work on a CNC torch table. So that's, that's! That's a subtlety there, but but it's important because we're not introducing any parts into the system using existing existing torch handles. Now we are going to have to modify it a little bit because the torch handle typically is like at a ninety degree.

A

We have to do either like a straight torch handle that, because the way it works is the torch handle is going to hang up and down. So it needs to be the tip has to face down. So to do that, we either get like a tip that faces down already or we Bend those metal hoses at the end, the standard hoes 90 degrees, so that the tip is actually facing down. So there's a little bit of hacking there, but just basically making the plumbing work such that the geometry of the torch faces downwards.

A

Okay, but after that, after we do this manual thing, we can do Auto gas actuation, and that would be that's more advanced. We don't have to worry about that, but but definitely down the road. We want to have a full working system where you have Auto gas, actuation, auto ignition, a water table. What's the water table, it's a table where the metal actually rests on a pond of water. You could do that or constantly drip water on top of the metal.

A

The idea there is when the metal gets hot, undercutting it's going to start to warp, so you just get higher cut quality when the metal is on the water table, it's basically a pond, basically the surface right under the metal or the metal sitting. That's just the water table. It's got. Water, that's filled with water, keeps the metal cool. The torch can cut into the water splashes a little bit, but it keeps the matter metal really straight, and then we can talk about next steps, but a capacitive height sensor is the industry standard right now.

A

The more advanced way is to do an ultrasound sensor which uses ultrasound, which does not get bothered by smoke or dirt or whatever smoke. It's a smoky environment. So you can't use light like a late like a laser or a light, a light detector for the height sensing too much smoke. But an ultrasound sensor does not mind the smoke, but it's a little higher tech. That's the industry! That's like the most advanced industry, standard people say I talk to the guys that make that they talk. They told me.

A

The manufacturer told me that that's the most advanced thing over capacitive sensing, it's more accurate and so forth, but it's also higher tech. So we don't have that technology in front of us, so it will require a little more work and we should probably do that afterwards as the next step. So basically, if you talk about a Minimum Viable Product that the capacitive sensing is very all proven and easier to do, especially because we already have that circuit for that and we have to make it work.

A

So that's that and then also on the bottom here. If you look at this, the bottom just making sure you guys are looking down the road we want to create, also open source stepper drivers, the stepper drivers that we're using are just off-the-shelf standard parts. There are eight dollar parts they're, not too expensive, but an open-source stepper driver would be good right now, the Pololu, the little tiny ones on the ramps controller they're open-source, but they're tiny. They don't have enough current capacity, so we want to open-source eventually just design a larger stepper driver.

A

That would be a good thing, because I don't really know of any single stepper driver. That's open-source, the actual stepper driver part, that's open-source, that's more than like two amps. We want to talk about five or ten amps for driving, multiple stepper motors or very large stepper motors. So the ones we got our 4 amp, the large external ones. So down the road also, we want to use the same motion system with larger stepper motors right here. Larger belts, gear reduction now note that all of this uses the universal access system.

A

That's because we're maxing out what's possible with the belt driven Universal axis I, think we can use head much heavier belts and much heavier drive to get up to precision. Cnc machining like making engines and things I think that's possible. Instead of using gears, ball screws or Acme, you can do belt. I know, there's machines that work on belts that are heavy-duty CNC machines. So the idea here is we're maxing out the capacity engineering. What's the most, we can do with a very simple, humble universal axis.

A

Like you see here and Oliver has replicated this very thing because you can enlarge the rods as much as you want. You can turn the 3d printed pieces as large as you want, so for the heavy-duty stuff, we're about two inch rods, 15 millimeter rods, huge that gets you. When you do the calculation, then it gets you something like a half up on a 4x4 bed using just a single one of these with 2 inch rods. It gets you I was calculating that the beam deflection there is like half a thousandth of an inch.

A

So that's plenty of precision for heavy-duty precision machining. So anyway, the limits to this are pretty much to be determined and so we're going after here. So getting into the torch height controllers, there's ones that come off the shelf, then you can buy the systems. That's the capacitive ring it's the thing that floats next to the metal surface and detects so basically you're measuring capacitance through a circuit and based on the capacitance, because the capacitance corresponds to the distance of the ring from the metal that gets you a height through a conversion of capacitance.

A

You have to convert the capacitance signal to a digital signal, and then you have to do some basic logic saying if the capacitance increases then move the torch up, because you're too close and the capacitor capacitances love is lower. You got to get closer to the table because you're too far away from the table, so that's basic working. So what's the development approach here? Called manufacturers maybe get some eighty seven, seventy four, so that so that's the system.

A

If you look at the capacitive high control circuit by Paul, Neil ins, that's from a few years ago, that's what it uses it uses this capacitive chip, that's what's used there, but the game's ours. Here man we got Chad's working on the as far as the stuff. Here Chaz is doing this step or larger stepper motor controller. We should check in on that. Maybe let's use this document here to kind of organize all that we are all that's happening on a CNC torch table.

A

This document here is supposedly the PI controller, but we can put an R work on the torch table. So please guys use this. So, for example, let's check in with Chaz- or you add, on your progress and in the larger electronics, it's essentially taking the ramps controller and putting some larger stepper drivers on that jazz. So.

C

Far I got there, you know with the ramps work connected uh-huh the wiring for the power supply, yeah.

A

Let's see, let me turn off my let's see if I can see, are you showing something because I I'm not singing yeah.

C

I'm sure, like two different people, okay,.

A

C

A

C

Then that, like the stepper Michael stuff driver and I, get I, forgot the wine right now and look at documentation and for that grant movies. That I have there's like six wires into the four yes I've been referencing. uh I found the document, the e3d controller yeah.

A

You mean the count is like yeah. The plug is that four does the plug have four wires or four terminals or six we've got six wires on.

D

The plug for my motors is six wires. Six.

A

Wires: okay, yeah, you got a yeah, you gotta, just like either take out or connect a couple of them together. I think I think that's still, let's see where's the bill of materials that you actually ordered. Do you have that, somewhere on your loggers somewhere, like the actual parts, you ordered.

A

Where's where's that put a link in the chat box.

A

You mean universal control controller. We got a log on that. Let's see we let it this here we got a log on that know. If you can type in the length I'll be good. Let's see where we are.

A

You talked about the page called the universal controller, yeah mm-hmm. Okay, so, let's see so you got those ones. Is that what you talked about so this is this was exactly what you got.

C

A

All right, so we got oh yeah, so that's the document in there for everybody to see. So that's what's going on there yeah that's on the CNC controller, so we can link to that in our working document here. So.

A

So I'm going to just put a link right in work. Doc I'll share my screen again so that people can see where I'm working.

A

Yes, I put that I put that link right in here, so we kind of all know where stuff is here.

A

Yeah, so there's that link right there and.

A

Okay, so we've got the build materials right there. So if we look at those, for example, for the stepper motors like if I click on that I think those yeah, we can troubleshoot that by yeah. Have you been looking at how to wire that up or you having trouble on that or a.

C

Little bit of trouble on that I'm. Looking at the let me find the when I'm looking at I was looking at the ramps wiring. Here's link.

A

Yeah so got the D 3d controller, page yeah. So that's the wiring for the D 3d and.

A

Right so there's a wiring diagram here, so you got a question like what, like page three or something.

C

Yeah, my page three yeah.

A

C

There's like four wires yeah.

A

So right now you need to do yeah, yeah yeah, so you're gonna have to figure out google that online how to convert a like the six wire to four wire. You can do that those because those have six Google that you should be able to find that there shouldn't be a problem, because I know that the ones with six wires, you can just reconnect them up. I believe I'm, not wrong on that.

A

Okay, so, let's see so.

A

Yeah so continue working on that see, I mean, if you you know, do uh yeah I guess for troubleshooting that a document how you're doing on something so yeah keep that keep track of that on. The log like, for example, get rewired the six wire to the four wire. So we can know that from your log, the next time and stuff like that in this particular, so keep working on that.

A

What you need is uh so you got the you got the wires to connect the power supply to the Rams port, because you got to connect the power supply then connect to the the the stepper motor and then you're gonna need to I'll take off one of those little so do you know about those so those little little pull all those stepper drivers you going to take off the one from the X and then wire into whatever pins are necessary. You know wire that that's the big stepper driver into that.

A

Have you gotten into looking in any of that.

C

Not really I, don't.

A

C

Close drivers know.

A

C

A

So you just need to yeah. You just need to figure out the pin out so so Google that the pin out of the ramps like what all the pins stand for and then connect the corresponding the correct ends to the larger stepper drivers. So it's I think we're going to need what is it two or four like step step in direction? I, don't know you there might be just two pins that go to the larger stepper controller. You have to find those I'm not familiar with that. I haven't done it.

A

So it's a little research on that, but you can google how people have used larger stuff for controllers with ramps. So that's that should be easy to find because I know people have done that. The thing we know is that people have taken the little ramps board and put instead of the the Pololu drivers. They could they plugged in much larger drivers now: okay, okay, so as far as the four wires they're no longer than a plug I, don't believe they're going to plug into the board anymore.

A

You you're probably going to have those wires plug into I. Think the way it works is the the four wires that we're showing here those are probably going to plug it into. Instead of your stepper, the stepper is going to plug into the yeah yeah yeah forget about those four. They don't connect here anymore.

A

They're, going to connect to the big the stepper motor is going to connect to the big stepper driver and all that's going to come here is the wires from the some of the pins of the Pololu to your larger stepper driver, but once again detail Devils in the details.

A

Look that up yeah, okay, so okay, let's move right on to the other guys.

A

So so, as far as Oliver and Abraham I want to ask you guys now how much you guys have ever looked into torch tables and so forth, and whether you'd be equipped to actually start researching the actual wiring and and prototyping of the the height controller, because, for example, Oliver like if you make yourself the axis like the universal axis, if you 3d print that you can pretty much test the height control circuit, but we need to source the ring and make the electronics happen. So we need to start that development process.

A

That's the thing that needs to happen there, but um Abraham and and Oliver. What are your thoughts on how you guys can contribute.

A

Abraham is this completely new to you.

B

No, it's not, for example, I was working up here now today we held everything, but I will do any PCB healing yeah he completed. That is what idea that you are talking purple, but I, don't know about death or I was using the NCCN say I was press I would think in hypnosis such a great to flatten allowed, but not experienced yet I got nothing.

A

Sorry so you have actually worked with up with a porch.

B

A

Right so the next steps are to probably what we want to do is use the circuit that we have drawn up and make that work. So basically study that have you seen the book the work before that Paul has done. That's on the wiki, the one I linked to right here, the capacitive high control circuit by Paul, Neil ins,.

B

Sorry, I'm yeah.

A

Maybe if you can mute yourself for a second.

A

So there's the link here in the working document. Where are we here?

A

This link right here so that shows the design, and we probably want to do- is look into that carefully see if we can study it and make it work on wrong link I'm. Sorry, let me put the correct link in there.

A

So Paul here here's Paul log, that's from 2013, but we've got documentation on the hike controller there. So let me put in the correct link there yeah. So as far as that link goes, you can read all about the work that we have done before. So the next step is for the torch torch team to come up with that and I think that's all we can do I mean that there's a lot of work right there so see if we can study it and actually come up with a clearer path of prototyping nets.

A

So what I would suggest? Is we print ourselves or make ourselves the axes and I.

A

Lost connection here.

A

Yeah, sorry guys so gypsy appears a little more unstable than Google doctor, but the next step would be to let's study as far as the people who are directly related to the CNC torch table, work. Let's study the work on a height controller from before and move right into defining a clear, prototyping path for that. So that's the main task like this would be an independent system from the XY motion. What we can do, let's think of it as completely independent from X Y, the X Y control.

A

We got the two paths going on and independently from that, using a separate Arduino. We would do the Z control, so that's basically running independently just sensing and moving the Z up and down as needed, completely independent from the XY motion. So it's a nice thing to prototype. It's a self-contained unit that lends itself to prototyping on a small scale like without having to build the full table.

A

What you can do is, if you can get your hands on the universal axis, then you can use the ramps controller for motion and then you can add the Z control. On top of that, as an independent system, so that's the next thing, but what we should do is kind of study this up and figure out more clarity in this working document.

A

As far as how exactly we want to go about doing that and what are the missing pieces from the documentation already I know we have that small control circuit somewhere here and I can contact the guy who's worked on that before so those little circuit boards I have those I have at least one of those here, and we can either do that or or wire ourselves up on a prototyping board, one of these circuits as well, but we already have the small board, so we should.

A

We should use that it's probably the most effective way to do it unless we want to modify the circuit for any other purposes. But first thing is to understand the circuit and see how it integrates with the rest of the control system. So we should probably start drawing up some design documents and how you know: what do you connect where and how you test so basically a testing procedure for that and we can work with. So we need to make ourselves the capacitive ring or buy one off the shelf and then go from there.

A

So we should look at what exactly are the the build materials that we need so probably a step on that there would be a prototyping plan and Bill of Materials.

A

So we need to come up with a plan right there. So uh can you guys work work on that, looking into that analyzing? What we have already and proposing maybe come up with a proposal for how exactly we do that, assuming that there's three of us that can be working on it Abraham do you have a capacity to do some 3d printing? Where you are, you got a 3d printer, correct.

B

A

Okay- and maybe we can, we can send you some materials or something yeah. Maybe probably a good thing would be if we can yeah I mean one way to do. It is just basically ship you, the stuff that we have and maybe the supply, so you can actually do the work if you can actually commit to the time of doing that, so you can maybe discuss that offline later. How exactly we want to do it, but they'll be definitely definitely feasible to do that.

A

Yeah, so I think we should come up with a concrete plan and then talk about how we execute on that meeting. You know who does actual work, who's who's going to be doing the prototyping so between Oliver and yourself Oliver. Do you have any comments at this point, because for now we should basically study what we have and see how see what we want to decide from here.

A

Although you want to chat and do a thing in the chat box,.

A

Okay, so so we should probably get moving on to the the next item, so we do so we're kind of more or less started on the cnc torch table. The idea there is I mean we want to prototype this so for August, so August we're going to do a lot of bills. That's our prime time for doing a lot of building August.

A

So we've got a couple of months to provide, but it'll be good to see if we can have the the height control worked out in the next few weeks next couple of weeks, so that at the same time we can 3d print the much larger frame or even use the existing smaller smaller frames just for testing of the high controller. But we want to get that prototyping within the next few weeks and actually build it out here here or remotely.

A

The best thing to do would be to get a very specific, build and test procedure so that we can possibly even do that in multiple locations and people start working on on their system, because it's a relatively low cost like if you have one, has access to the NEMA 17 motors, some 3d printing, the build materials cost.

A

There is not too much if you, if you've got your your ramps board and Arduino, then some plastic and some metal rods and stepper motors, so that those are all the parts that typically are quite accessible and not it's not too expensive to to prototype it. So we'll see how we can do that. Okay.

A

So let's continue on you want to move on yeah. So is that design right front for now guys study up on them? What we have for the height controller and then move on from there and work? So please work in as in the CNC torch table, height controller document, just whatever notes, you've got, you know, start pages. You know you're able to edit that slide new slide.

A

So so the conclusion slide is.

A

Examined Paul's work, examine poles.

A

Prior art and then come up with a prototyping plan.

A

Yeah, so let's continue basically using this document continue to continue working in there and then continue communicating within the 3d printer working group on minds, open source, ecology, sorry on network that open source, ecology, I work. So let's continue on email and in this document, so I think that's good. For now. Let's continue here! So, let's see, do we have a back on yeah, I think so right we need aid to get us to where we are so we got Abe.

A

We got two Abe's shown up there, Haven Dixon I guess for the next part, so you guys alright any other questions for now.

A

Okay, let's move on to the filament maker, so Abe, let's, let's talk here so the document that we have on the filament maker I'm going to go to so moving out of a universal controller out of the torch table into the I'm, going to go to a blog and look at the there's, a visual build materials that we've come up with for, let's see where we are so the working document here is I believe this one. Let's see! No, no remember, maybe you want to put paste that link into for everybody.

A

Okay, let's see so the page on the wiki is uh we got alignment film and extruder and the working document there? That's I, guess that's the correct working document, I believe right here, yeah, so we've got the page called Lyman, filament extruder and on it we've got work based on the existing life of filament extruder. A lot of work has been done there, the guys, using these to make our filament out of ABS on a regular basis, I'm going to go into edit the the working document.

A

So the working document, let's paste it in.

A

Okay for anyone else, looking at that there's the working document in the text box is that working there.

A

Do that shop, for you guys.

A

Okay, Joseph and Edmund and Dixon as far as relevant for this this project here the idea is that we're documenting. So can you guys.

A

Can you guys see the doc.

E

Like this big spike, okay.

A

There we go so we've been basically going through the instructions that were provided on the. If you go to the there's, a wiki link there for the working page.

A

So if you want to click on it open that up, but there's a there's, an instructional document that we're pretty much going through open that up on the bottom of the linemen filament extruder wiki page under links, and if you open up there's a the file, lineman v6, zip, that's going to get you the full instructions on the filament maker, so that zip file also has a PDF file. That has that's nine megabytes.

A

You can see the instructionals there for what exists as far as the overall build process and we've started this Limon filament extruder, v6 document working doc.

A

To summarize all that's within the other ducts, so we're kind of getting ready, okay, visual bill of materials, kind of trying to piece it all together, but it's essentially, if you can kind of understand, let's see really no great overview slide here. We should probably start with this new slide that talks about the the over, like just the basic systems diagram, so that we could, but we want to start with the overall system. So we know all the main parts that go into it.

A

Yeah, so is there Able's there a comprehensive document within the instructional there, or no, not really I'm, opening up the.

A

The instructions right now.

F

F

The zip files have PDFs in the folder against the main file folder in the route.

A

F

They have PDFs in there.

A

Yeah there's a construction manual PDF within the files folder. So if you open that up which I'm opening up, let me maybe share my screen here, so you can see where I'm looking.

A

Okay, sharing sharing my screen, but this is the document. So what's what's nice to see is uh yeah I mean the first picture is not too bad of a of an idea here, but basically what he's got is he's got a I mean this is kind of like the most comprehensive picture here, but you've got a motor driving an auger and here's the hopper, where you put in the pellets and then there's the hot tube here that spits out your filament now aybe. Is that the one that's wall-mounted?

A

Is that correct the one showing here the one that he has is wall monta.

F

F

A

F

A

The recommended version for now right or does he recommend the flat mounted as well.

A

Is does he recommend the wall-mounted version or the flat mounted version.

F

F

A

Yeah, so basically what you see there, it's that the tube there that's a hopper full of plastic material. It goes into the through the red bend into basically the the heat zone here and there's a little heater element and then you're just spitting out plastics. Oh, so you got melting going on here, an egg. What is the control system here? So you turn the thing on it turns on the heat and then basically the material starts falling out the bottom simply by melting.

A

There is no well I mean there's the auger, that's pushing it out the the heater plus the auger, the auger is pushing it out and do we control the speed of the auger here.

F

The one without an emulsion here in the letter and the motor speed control, he suggested that we control of just the heat using the relay was enough: the PID control thing and the motor. What's you I can heat it up. First I'm sure yeah.

G

F

Any letting shop or the V idea, because it alarm and tells you want to talk any menu.

G

F

On the motor I think, that's only has a wire once the Tottenham can start extruding yeah.

A

Yeah, so it's just so we're essentially saying we set the temperature to a specific value and then we're just extruding by turning on the motor and that's it for the further extruder side. Is that correct, yeah yeah? So that's what we have and then from the extruder. Then we've got, let's see so a bunch of 3d printed parts like he's 3d, printing, a lot of the components for this.

A

Let's see so so. This is the electronics main electronics thing. So let's take a look at this: that's that's pretty decent, so we got a 24 volt power supply got your gear motor. You got your temperature controller here. Motor switch that just basically turns the motor on and off you got a heat switch turns the heat on and off voltage regulator.

A

Solid-State relay the solid state relay is just to turn on the heater.

F

Yes, the relay control temperature controller, the pH yeah and then that voltage regulator he's mostly eliminates the voltage regulator, because that more from the controls, motor version, I thought about it. Maybe I don't know much about the pretties extruding, the plastics temperatures. There might be different types of plastics, it might need more precise thermal control and we want to have some of those extra things. Yeah yeah.

A

So so there that is, you got the heat band around the barrel and an auger bid. The auger bid is just a simple drill bit like it would drill bit. So there we go, we go so he puts it all together. There's some mechanical stuff of how you attach the barrel and so forth.

A

You have to attach the gear motor. What kind of coupler does he use uses a free printed coupler? Does he say that there's any issues with a 3d printed coupler or that works pretty well.

F

F

Variations inversions documents: okay,.

A

F

It works. Okay, he's got like a block of MDF insulating from the black, where it's needed. There's some complexity importance. It looks like the fabrication in the change that it would be better because he's drilling holes in that flange I think just because the existing holes in the planter too big.

A

Drilling holes in a flange, the metal, flange folding, though oh yeah, yeah.

F

Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

A

Yeah, that's not too bad I mean that's just the drill press right.

A

F

A couple of things I think: a girl press, yeah.

A

So you're saying okay well, like it'll, be best at best you're, just using existing holes in there and by the other they're just a little too large and thing. So, let's.

F

I, don't come on buddy other parts, yeah.

F

A

And that's so it looks pretty simply get pipe. You got yourself an auger, you got standard parts, but you got to drill the the flange through 3d printed parts, 3d printed, coupler and then I guess a thermistor. What's that happening? There is no there's a power or thermistor or something.

F

Sputtering temperature and connects back to that yeah there.

A

You go so then he kind of bonds. It together heat band, yeah I mean this is relatively simple. So then you got this coming together. What the ring there? What's not doing, the ring in the extra.

F

Stuff are on the ring. He's got oh the ring in front with the plastics extruding through yeah.

A

F

Think that was just as a fan, holder, okay, so it just happens to be on to the ring in that nectar. Okay, yeah.

A

So there we go with that now the spool winder, that's now getting a little tricky, but the way I understand is here. So you got the film and going through this little thing, where your so you're pulling the filament you're you're, driving the the roller or like the real you reel it in once, there's enough coming out like once the basically the wire the filament drops, it hits this limit switch and then you you engage the cooler and then once once the Pooler makes that pulls the filament enough to the top.

A

It's another limit switch, so you're, basically bouncing back and forth between two switches, and is that essentially the the mechanism there Abe? Yes,.

F

A

F

Whole seems a little more complicated is he has two motors, he has a polar motor and then he has another motor from the winder and it seems like maybe some of that stuff eventually can be combined together in one microcontroller or something and then motors the speed enough that you need some of those extra parts. Maybe one winder motor but yeah.

A

Yeah and I guess he. You know the way he had that all electronic before he had speed controls, but now he just went to to the much simpler system and I think it's probably a good idea to get familiarity with this very simple system, on/off kind of a system and then go more advanced as we need later so yeah I think that's that's a good idea and Mei I mean I, agree with you. It's not a big deal to use a microcontroller that just monitors everything and you're.

A

Turning on you know like if yeah I'm not sure how you would go, how you would monitor the like without this simple device like I'm, not sure, what's a clear way to get like variable, winding yeah, because I mean that's elegant and simple. If it works, that's good right and he says that the quality of the filament that he gets is very good, like plus minus point zero, five millimeter, which is quite good.

A

But what's he say about okay? So, for example, this controller here? What's he doing this variable voltage, controller spool, speed, he's saying that's one option, but in another way he just says get rid of that and just have on and off.

F

F

Something operates that small motor that holds the wire and then there's another controller. Okay,.

A

F

The winder altar as well, okay,.

A

So oh yeah yeah okay, so you got let's back up here so in this picture here I'm going to zoom in a little bit yeah. So in this picture here yeah I forgot about that. So the control of the of the filament thickness. Where does that occur? Does it occur? I.

F

Didn't think that he was pulling it to get the thickness. He didn't really describe that I come to the thickness was based on or the diameter of the plastic was based on the more hole in the brass.

F

In cap that he's easy for the extrusion point, but I guess I don't know that much, but the windings.

G

F

Part of it, obviously, it's gonna stretch a little if it's still hot, so yeah.

A

Yeah yeah no I mean what we're seeing there. What I'm smelling there is that's going to be super tricky to get to work right if it there's no more direct way to control the thickness, because I would imagine that you would pull it I know I've been you know what I've seen on an Internet. You pull it to determine the thickness. How fast you pull. It means how thick or thin you stretch it out.

A

So if you don't have that stretching capacity there, that seems to me like wow yeah, it's going to be a tricky deal to get it to the exact right width, but tell me more about this. So why do you need the puller? Is the puller operating at different speeds.

F

Don't look like you have that element under tension there between polar and the winder, but I assume.

A

F

Of that was for just keeping the windings straight in you.

A

F

A nice winder option device, but he says that it's unnecessary.

G

F

White, of course, I don't know you know an issue tangling yeah.

F

A

So what it appears that to be there that he has a cooler and the spooler, so there's the pooling there and the spooling they're just there to keep everything straight, but they're not contributing to the thickness right. Yeah.

F

F

Hang it down by gravity, Yeah.

A

A

Please pretty much relying on a temperature and gravity to get you the right thickness, which is like that sounds to me like Wow, to get that set that can vary from day to day, depending on the weather.

F

Washington, probably.

F

Should be pretty precise, yeah.

F

Apparently insulated with a piece of welding blanket yeah, there may be pretty good accuracy off yeah.

E

F

Your control, no soft state relays fast, I, guess so yeah, oh.

A

Yeah yeah no I, wouldn't question the temperature being accurate there, but as soon as it enters the air, I guess I'm concerned about how it stretches at that point. Assuming that there's some stretching or maybe it's all done through the orifice. Maybe the orifice is a huge part, because I'm thinking that the orifice is just kind of like approximate, what's the orifice from the through the.

F

A

Three millimeters about yeah.

D

Sixteen no no 1/16.

A

That's notice, that's.

D

Probably two millimeters we've.

A

Got one so that's smaller than that.

F

Brass plug: that's one thing that I didn't find detailed on was well.

G

F

He board that, yes,.

G

F

And I assume oh well, I was thinking at first the way it's put together. You can easily change the size. You.

G

F

Swap out the brass plugs have different size of the four holes yeah.

G

F

It will the way together and wrapped up it's kind of hard to change that, but not yeah.

A

Yeah yeah, so what I'm seeing here is that yeah, it's probably going to be tricky to get it to the exact right thickness, that's going to be a little bit of messing around, but then I'm thinking like for the future. Alright, how do we end up controlling that? So some kind of a puller mechanism that, depending on how fast you're pulling the accuracy, is going to be determined by that yeah yeah? So it seems, seems.

A

So, for example, here film and clorium floor as it's extruded 20 to 25 inches per minute, tolerance of plus minus point, zero. Six millimeter I mean that's pretty pretty decent as far as the accuracy yeah yeah yeah, but yeah we got to try it. I mean this is not not too bad in terms of.

A

Every time the machine is pretty simple as far as that goes, but the question is: how do we perfect it at the end of the day or yeah, we'll see we'll see.

F

Simplicity overall is nice on all them. The parts I mean there's a few extra parts but kinda more fault, tolerant, yeah, yeah,.

A

Electronics, how does he three friends the big the very hold on? Let me let me just make a photo work.

A

Sorry guys, so my next question was on the green part. How does he print that that looks like a relatively large part? How does he print that multiple pieces.

A

Hey bu that there still.

A

If Ken here, oh yeah,.

F

Okay, so the plastic parts are in pieces and equalist together with ABS a lot.

G

F

Plastic parts are are glued together with ABS solvent. Oh.

A

F

Than that in the yeah, okay, all.

A

Right that works, if you can just use Krazy Glue yeah, some.

F

Of them are also folded together by PD brass inserts into the plastic and then putting in four bolts yeah top part. The extruder party's bolted to the larger case plastic case power supply inside that yeah.

A

We should see if we could get those files, these 3d CAD files from him if he has those in stuff. That would be good.

F

Yeah I haven't found all that kept looking on Thingiverse I mean look back and see these updated. Wow sounded like he changed contains a licensing before he may have updated.

A

Yep and he changed a license to the right license, that's good! So we have a nice blown out hard diagram. Yet I mean this is good, adjust all stock pieces and little drilling quite easy, 3d printed and stock pieces. So that's that's good. um You know we should mm-hmm.

F

Has some plastic printouts or hole drilling template some of the plastic reasons, there's excellent templates for or the holes of the flange, as well as that MDF block.

A

Uh-Huh yeah yeah: do you have a 3d printer I? Do not you should come down here and get one I can get you one of ours? Are you interested in doing that.

F

F

A

My Tom, if we ship one to you, you could, can you work it? Can you do this like a print it out.

F

A

Yeah so look yeah.

F

A

Yeah I mean for us on our side we're going to get our print army going here. So that's kind of like over the next week or two just start getting the cloth print cluster going and perfect the prints. So we haven't perfected the prints. Yet we got to get all the settings right. Oh yeah! That's that's where we are right here: yeah, no, that's good! So what are our next steps on it? So so the whole design, yeah I, mean this all the 3d printed pieces.

A

Are there there's actual wiring, so he so he does have that variable. Voltage.

F

A

It's one of those things: we've got options and even as a result, you don't know what to do or what works better. Yes, part of that yeah, probably.

F

Good to test everything up there right, I'm, not greedy plastics, but I, assume they start working with different types of plastics. People might want the options or they might need more. Thermal control for different types of plastics might have more control of the cooling or, if it needs to stretch or or some little people want different options of them. Sizing impacts, plastic, yeah,.

A

Yeah uh-huh mm-hmm. So what are our next steps here? So the idea is I mean instructions are kind of decent, but I mean I. Think the next step would be is to to pick a very specific, like basically flush out. Some of the details like he's got. You know he's got a lot of work here, but the idea would be to get very specific on step by step.

A

So he shows a bunch of pictures, but I think probably to flesh it out with more detail would be a good idea and wherever he has a choice, say: okay, we're not going to do that. We're gonna do this now you know so that would be. We can only do one thing at a time: yeah.

F

Instruction there something yeah.

G

F

There was a documentation and I said to think about it for a while ya know on some of those things to figure out why he was drilling holes. Is the black iron nipple pipe and messages air release all I.

A

Thought it was a wouldn't be for the thermistor or no, my thermistor for the thermocouple or know.

F

There's attached right at the end, underneath the heat band: mm-hmm, hey, Tom, Tom, okay,.

A

F

And then it's wrapped up, so the holes are drilled in the pipe near the flange and so I think. If the plastic is pushed through, it starts to melt. It's he's using a pellet, so it's somewhere to push out there. Okay,.

F

A

A little detail like that yeah will airlock yeah.

A

Did you find a bill materials to be pretty accurate or you think it's missing.

F

The one on the extruder was a little bit better than the one on the winder I'm a little double-checking step on the winder still because some things that aren't there they aren't listed in the document and other places yeah.

A

A

Right, so what what do we do next, then?.

F

Finish I think I've got.

F

Already well done, I want to double-check and look for any anchor link service under sources to put on that and look over to Juneau again, but I'm almost finished with me. Come winder mom other than some of the confusion with parts that I gotta figure out because they're not in the diagrams. It's totally ready from his documents along order, a parts list and build a version of it. Yeah.

A

It would be good to reconcile the parts list, like maybe put a check check, check, check, buy all the parts like as we go here, the bomb, the visual build materials, probably to make sure that.

F

A

Mm-Hmm, so one good thing to do would be to do a complete CAD that we can actually link the as we do the CAD. We can like this one here on page number: seven, that's a nice one. It shows a lot of the different parts. We should have one like that for them tires. You know for the overall extruder for all the pieces.

A

The start would be to ask him. If he's got those files, there will be number one and then go.

F

F

D

F

A

Yes, you can import step.

A

Yeah um yeah: this is pretty good. um How much is the gear motor there that can bill materials there.

F

Motor waters are a little bit more, the small ones, oh, that one's like $13 small, into 13, that big one on the extruder torque motor yeah.

G

F

Money's noticing on the extruder system, there's some electronics a little construct. Some of the fault, tolerance in the electronics and I noticed that the gear motor says that the motorists torque is overrated from their box. So, let's turn to get through. There might be a failure mode where it just trashes the gearbox, and we should at least put a fuse in there and something like that.

A

F

Say $80 motors the most expensive part of the East River I think yeah.

A

A

A

Fifteen rpm- and he just has it either on or off, is that the idea at present yeah.

F

It says manual switches on the front of that panel and it looks to me like he lets the heater, come up the temperature and then just switches it on you automate defense and he does yes. What I can tell I found a manual for that PID temperature controller, but didn't have a lot of extra information beyond wiring.

F

So it looked like I'd be able to control more things.

F

A

F

Has an alarm at least where the other things II. They have an arm. So has an alarm where it probably tells you when it's up to temperature and then you just switch the motor on and I, don't know, timing issues.

F

Controlling the temperature, it's not gonna burn it. Yeah.

D

F

F

A

So definitely there would be a case for getting the full cat in place. So that's some of the next steps here. So, let's, let's talk about the next steps and how we can handle that here so slide duplicate slides. So next, let's talk about next steps and let's talk about, we can allocate any of these steps. So that's made.

A

Definitely there's the CAD I mean really like a build procedure. That's I, guess better, like refactor to build procedures so basically select.

A

Any of multiple paths like if there's multiple ways to do things, to select one select single path. Let's call that.

A

Detail out missing pieces.

A

I mean adapt to.

A

Specific, if there's any part change, so one thing to do is to verify that all the parts can be obtained but make make any adaptations. Yeah yeah.

F

Those parts some parts in there too, on the electronics there they could be almost out of spec in their operate.

F

A

A

Right like let's see these are very nice. Diagrams like like this diagram here will be. Nice is if we have a link to yeah like this level of detail, for everything. Like so say, say you got your. You know like. Let's take a look at one of your visual bills and materials I mean there's tons of parts in there that are like you know, like you, don't point to every single part, there's a few missing, maybe maybe to like, do an arrow and a link to the specific part.

A

At the end of the day, it's going to be, what parts are we actually buying right? So this is good, maybe like the next step would be to say, but now all these lengths, okay yeah, they are that's good.

F

A

A

Yeah, so what I do typically is just put a boundary around that to know that yeah there's a link around it, mm-hmm yeah, that's pretty good, that's getting pretty pretty exact, so.

A

A

What we might want to do is now take the what you have for the visual BLM and all the parts that you have already listed and go against. His I probably reconcile the to the visual versus the final, because you know it could end up that we get all the parts in the build materials. Let me say else: we're missing this. We're missing that and so forth. So before I would want to build. This I would want to say okay, the two are reconciled, so I would say like an epic point.

A

Yeah is this one yep.

F

G

F

To identify all of the parts and photos and where they go, including a ball count screw down so I think the numbers that he isn't on the mill material seem to match.

F

A

So, maybe so how far you on that rhizobia I guess a big step.

F

F

A

A

A

Okay, so okay, and as far as the winder is there a separate document. Besides this one.

F

Slides for the wider are justice lines.

A

But in um in the PDF.

F

A

F

F

A

Okay, so that's in the other folder in the winder folder, okay, all right Wow! Let me see.

A

Lyman spoolers, zip so you're saying that for the extruder you've checked off every single part from his BLM against yours, against your visual one.

F

Coming all the text from his note material into the visual bit material, that was my starting point: okay,.

F

A

Oh excellent duck.

F

A

Then was his: um what's, this blue materials incomplete banner was a.

F

Banana with screws or not it looked like you use some other phones for that yeah.

A

F

In the same folder,.

F

It only takes a couple.

F

D

F

G

D

F

Winder mostly laid out but I, guess I, don't I, don't have a lot of links in the yet I was trying to find a kind of verify the difference between homes and.

A

All right um that sounds good yeah.

F

It's photos sometimes don't match. Duteous photos, different arts in there changed him. He went the simpler way it looked like he had a gear box, a photo sponge motor and he eliminated that slow decade. Mm-Hmm.

F

Together, duct tape for a flexible comfort, yeah to be polar and some other things in there.

F

Mm-Hmm rubber and it looks like four holy Stefan I, don't know how tricky the rubber band into the right.

F

I guess the rubber bands will out of the one. Oh no.

A

They're just pretension.

F

um They are Drive belts. Basically, it looks like for the winder it. Oh yeah.

D

F

F

Romantic tension, yeah.

A

C

F

They work yeah.

A

Yeah all right, so, let's see so, let's go back to the next steps here.

A

Yeah, no, that's good progress here.

A

Yeah, so the question would be for Dixon and for Joseph.

A

Is there any ways we can get involved in this? So.

F

A

F

F

There's still quite a bit of work to do with the involvement. I, don't know she's, not mostly people out I'm up. They have any had experience. Uh-Huh.

A

So guys, Joseph and Dixon there's visual bill of materials, work to be done, basically pasting in I'm, just kind of verifying that all the parts going to match up and and also a are you cutting and pasting parts from the internet on top of what the parts were in from the document itself, when there were some parts, the word may be shown well.

F

Mm-Hmm I mostly went with links to his from his mom yeah, pretty good. There were a couple places, even mcmaster-carr, I, guess, wiki and the materials, the numbers or part numbers of serial numbers are incorrect. Updated master car I had to go back in fine.

A

Right and another winder part like the idea there is the knob that basically controls the speed. So it's on and off, but at a very well regulated speed. Is that the idea, or is that winder? No, the winder wait, is the winder going the whole time I.

F

Think but yeah he has an on/off switch on it. It's on top of that power, supply and I think that's just ten days I'm off setting. Let's turn it on and didn't let its prawns based on the limit switches and.

A

And right and the knob on the like, for example, that knob right there on the whatever those.

F

There that he sent those both six bolts, that potentiometer yeah.

F

Electrical diagram but I'm, assuming it 12-volt power supply that does two things in parallel, runs of about six volts and that keeps the motors I guess running it right.

A

Yeah yeah and one is a both of them- are geared down right there. One is the geared ya know.

F

These photos he can showing that rectangular yeah.

G

F

Yeah and the other folks will see some photos where it's not there and he said they just win. He eliminated the gearbox and there's just a defecate coupler between.

G

F

A

Well, so so, how fast are those motor spinning their.

F

Motors one of them.

A

So it's got an internal gearbox yeah.

F

A

F

Two different rpms: okay, all.

D

Right, yeah I sleep all right.

A

F

Slightly different voltages and some of the photos there yeah yeah yeah.

A

F

A

Yeah yeah, so you know what yeah I think I think. The clear part to do here is yeah continuing of visual abilities. I think the big part is like pulling down all the CAD files like whether it's so first of all, of course ask Lyman about the full cab and then whatever's missing. We just got to start drawing up little pieces or just downloading files from the internet like I know.

A

Mcmaster-Carr has all the files online, for example, so so cabs so for the CAD, so ask few linemen about vocab and then fill in missing thesis.

A

So there's definitely like I know: mcmaster-carr has files you can download and then just cut out from scratch.

A

Whatever is missing, it could be, you know, approximate or just kind of like not super detailed and then, of course,.

F

That the pipes and stuff like that, okay.

A

Yeah yeah, so there's a lot of counting work. I think that the way to organize around definitely like if you build in all the cats. So if we have a full CAD model, we can take that and do really nice like not be restricted to his diagrams.

A

Then we can have like a more complete diagram where we can lay it all out and show the explosions of different things and links to part numbers and things, and even even like the assembly procedures, we can do simple things like here's how it goes together, explode apart, animations, which we have done before, which is pretty easy within freecad, so once so, I think we should focus around the CAD so guys. What do you think so Dixon as well as Joseph?

A

You guys want to feed back a little bit. What you guys! Are you guys? You think you contribute.

E

Clarify things: what are you talking about doing a cat workup of this project from the ground up based on Lyman's work, yeah.

D

E

We can be flexible with that general.

D

E

You're talking on that spread, yep.

D

Yep, that's about right, mm-hmm, so.

E

While you've been talking, I've been looking looking at this, those PDF files are those disc files is package. Design documents are those documents that OSU building I'm, not quite clear. That says.

A

The zip file- that's all his and okay. Our document is the Google Doc right, we're just trying to refactor make.

E

Sense up on the wiki, yet yeah so on the obviously first part for me: project yeah.

E

But I'm not sure I mean I'm, not full gather bring cadfael's yeah.

A

E

Know it's probably the first step as I'm learning. Pre-K yep is the most obvious thing. I think that could do especially for the fast pace, homecoming or approximating can't piles for all of the outer shell comes. I think is probably the most obvious thing. I must.

E

A

Same compiled cat off the the online components for various compounds, very soft shelf components.

G

E

A

The big determining factor is going to be what Hugh already has and then we want to fill I'm sure he's not going to have everything, because to do the exhaustive CAD takes a lot of effort so so build on so existing CAD. There.

A

Compiled CAD for I mean that would be like from scratch, build it from scratch. Now. The other thing is for the STL files. We can start, you know the STL's. We can't the general idea about STL files because they're a mesh format when, when you get them into freecad, you can't really work with them, so we have to always convert them into into free CAD format like solid objects. So right, the idea there is that we probably want to see there.

A

It goes back to the trick of what I was talking about about file size yeah.

A

We can have the files and free CAD, but they could either be too large or you can't work with them because they're they're SDL's, so we probably have to end up converting them and maybe drawing them from scratch, or even sometimes simplifying them, understanding that we already have that like for the 3d prints, they have to be the exact cause, but those STL's are good already, but we might have to draw them up again from the perspective of having the full cad model. So so we can basically say for the STL files.

A

We can start combining them.

A

I'm not sure exactly what the limits are to working with the SPL files within freaking I mean I guess does the first thing to try would be okay if I, if I import, all those into three CAD, can I work with them efficiently or or you just can't because they're hard to manipulate.

A

Maybe you can explore that like, for example, we have the CAD file, that's got a mixture of of freecad, drawn files or step imports and then you're mixing a bunch of STL in there. Is they gonna work? I, don't know.

F

I started doing the bomb I tried, pulling in STL files and working with them. I tried converting them, and that was sometimes it was their simple enough that it kind of worked. But there were issues so I think it's easier because there's such simple Saunders and cubes and stuff anyway they're easy to just take in to freak out and they just trace over them and the sketchpad yeah.

A

F

The sketchier workbench it shouldn't be that difficult to redraw those by just tracing back over yeah.

A

Now it's suggest that tuple in Elliott, oh yeah, good.

E

Is that something that you'd like to test me on converting by whatever method, whether it's direct conversion or for rebuilding yeah? The other file yeah.

A

No definitely be a worthwhile task mm-hmm, because that way we can come up with a complete model. Mm-Hmm and that's I.

E

Mean that's for yeah.

A

Yeah there's a lot of work there, so maybe I'll know. Can we get Joseph to start adding up some other parts, so basically import into free cat and then just go into sketcher and just trace over them and extrude remake them up and by drawing them up with sketcher. So we have to kind of pick up beef up on a sketcher where you do drawings in 2d and then you can extrude them out to 3d, and then you can work, make new features on any face using the sketcher.

A

So that would be a task that a number of people can take on. In fact, I mean maybe we divided I mean because there's so many pieces, there's a spooler, there's the winder there's an extruder and there's that there's that that other limit switch part there's like four parts. What if we just say, hey people, let's start counting those up together from STL's I mean start, maybe with SDL's but then also start put in and then so.

A

Let's say we redraw them in sketcher, and then we start importing other parts and making up other parts that would be kind of a so step. Number one is start with redraw with sketcher, then import import, step files like, for example, from mcmaster-carr and there's a lot of places online that have step files. So it's kind of one of those things where you kind of have to search a little bit and then create entire, create the entire assemblies.

A

Now but the way we want to organize that, so let me just shrink this down a little bit as we flesh this out so start a page there's a so I put as 1c as the filament extruded part library, just like the D 3d part library, so use the D 3d part library to start a gallery of parts. So so, if you look at the D 3d part library, wiki page, it's got some text on it and then it goes down to here's like this gallery of parts.

A

So that would be useful to do to basically once we get all the parts put them in a gallery, because these a lot of these are like, for example, the first three ones here are for 3d, printing and then other ones are for the workflow, where you just download them and you you build the things in freecad like if you want to build something different in freecad.

A

So that's the idea of the the gallery, and so I would say start with a gallery and then the index would be a good thing too, because remember that you know once we draw up something we might want to optimize those files or rebuild them and stuff. So it would be nice to have an index which this index, like on a d3d part library page combines the bill of materials with the CAD. So we've got the bill materials right there and then the CAD. So we have like a one-stop shop for the entire build I.

A

Think that's a really cool thing, this overall inventory. But what I'll say for that is so we can start the extruder part library based on D, 3d, part library,.

E

A

A

Then do a gallery and then do an index a master index.

A

Which is a be om, plus links to CAD files and then plus the links to the optimized files, because for some like once, we get into the bigger overall assemblies we want to like simplify some of them like initially, you want all those super detailed parts, because you want to know everything about it. But as we get up into the final final assembly, I could say we do one CAD file of the entire winder cooler extruder, like that's going to get pretty heavy. So we want to start maybe doing some simplifications there too.

A

So so there should be that place for the simplified CAD. But the one thing we don't have yet is the like. We do have the vom on the on the within the PDF, but that's not editable right.

A

So we want to turn that into an editable doc like like here, but maybe worry about that for later, so the flow would be well no I think we wanted I think we want to get that master index as soon as possible, because then we can put all the links to that and then, as soon as we have the things made up, we can start pasting them into the gallery. So we see all the pieces all the individual pieces, that's quite a bit of work.

A

There I mean that's, that's a lot of work, but I would say. Maybe we should start with so base this on the beauty, part library and start with index master index file yeah. That master index would be the equivalent of this index key I'm, going to link directly to that. So there's the index.

A

Yeah definitely want to I mean spreadsheets are good for this I mean because it's really about managing like a full bunch of parts yeah. So, let's start with a master index, yeah.

E

The exterior part library put an index in the gallery and that gets worked on doing this yeah.

A

They'll be perfect, so do the STL conversions, so that means we draw with sketcher, then port them and step or then yeah and then start creating more complex assemblies of parts.

A

So the index should have like first is the unique parts which is the like one through 40 here, which are just parts and then there's assemblies and then there's final assembly, yeah mm-hmm. That sounds like a plan.

E

A

Yeah there's Oliver Cassie and Joseph. No sorry, no! No Oliver! You know Oliver actually no Oliver's on the CNC torture. It was a Joseph and cast Cassie as well. Do we miss somebody? There was somebody else on that.

F

F

A

No, that should be good. That should be good, so, let's, let's divvy up, so we can start.

A

So next steps would be okay, so.

F

A

Yeah so let's write.

A

Ya: Dixon, since you're talking about the asset of the page, setup', the extruder part, library, filament, extruder, part library, page.

A

And then start, you know then start start filling it, but with what so Dixon, let's maybe have you do do it on nom I mean there's extruder since you're piping up here there's the winder.

A

Let's have maybe Joseph on that and then schooler.

A

And then, as far as a beer, continuing on the visual bill of materials.

A

Verification aid, so how do you put in here.

F

Whiner smaller portion.

F

To those parts difference between diagrams and partland has already so that didn't take too much longer and then I can start moving on.

F

A

And then your links can feed into the master index. So that's good.

A

Yeah now what would be nice is once we've got all the parts we can do like so in free cat. It's relatively easy to do the exploded, part animations, meaning that played in Reverse. That's a that's! How a an object goes together. So maybe once we have the entire model, we can show.

A

Okay, this part goes first and we just actually show the entire assembly coming together, which is not so hard to do it within Creek head as long as free cat doesn't crash and which means that we got to have the files all kind of done properly as in constrained properly. So, hopefully that all works within freecad yeah, yeah, yeah they'll be pretty nice mm-hmm.

G

A

G

A

G

As I kind of get up up to speed on this yeah all right, what sort of point of contact if I need a question that resources yeah.

A

Yeah I would say certainly go to Abe who's been working on this, but but myself as well, I mean Abe's kind of like master of the extruder right now.

F

F

That work that way, it's documented yeah.

A

Yeah, whenever you ask questions the procedure is posted at Network, that open source ecology, org and, let's still, by the way, just keep using a 3d printer group there until we need to split off because there's not enough traffic there. Yet, but post a comment there and if you want to grab somebody's attention, just email that person say hey respond to my comment.

G

A

And then you can ask me about more high level higher level stuff as well. Definitely but yeah. We should definitely feel free, I check the network, the open source, ecology network all the time. So it's a good way or just email me out. Yeah I mean we're we're all pulling on this together. So yeah.

G

Just on kind of getting up to try to get receive a free cat never had.

F

G

Of this stuff to work them, you.

F

Know, electronics.

G

I thought you, if there's any miscellaneous stuff that comes up where you just sort of need an office monkey to go, look up, I, don't know prices or just go. Hunt down the information. I thought, maybe that's something I could I could do. There's somebody's time is better spent working on more complicated problems. Yeah.

A

Yeah definitely we'll keep that in mind.

A

I think, there's yeah yeah yeah, we'll keep that in mind how to make that work, and probably some clear classes like as we go on this project. I think some clear kind of like entry-level tasks will emerge, but yeah I think you should definitely. You know like, for example, taking a very simple part in free CAD and putting that into the master index.

A

You know like there's a there are like a block or this with holes, it's relatively easy to draw it up and freak out, and so that you know you practice with very, very simple parts, because someone still has to do that and then you know it takes time and accounting. So I think the probably easiest thing would be take some of the things that are really like two-dimensional, extrusions and start working on that as some of the very very simplest parts.

A

And then you get familiar with it and you get comfortable with how to make more complex parts. I think yeah, that's one thing, but but I think some things will also emerge as we go forward and kind of keep keep track of simple entry level tasks. Yeah.

A

E

Hence the terrifying apart library, the winder in the school will be assemblies within that overall part library, I selfie all be on the same page. Yes,.

A

So we start with individual parts, so maybe we have a section for just individual parts and then we might have another section of that's assemblies and then the final assembly yeah.

A

Yep definitely well that sounds good I think we've got plenty to do on this. That's a really I mean this is a really important project in the sense that getting our nice working home scale winder like that spooler extruder for film and making iron I think that's very important because that will allow us to like. If we actually get that right, then we can start doing things like printing, even things like fence posts or dimensional lumber, because otherwise that's prohibitive in terms of filament costs.

A

But if our filament cost is literally three, then we can be printing large objects for like real construction stuff, like hydroponics aquaponics parts that always are come in contact with moisture a lot of stuff. We can get lots of value for actual large parts, that's important, so that is a cool project.

E

A

And we know we can make it happen because I know there's like there's a couple of these small desktop filament extruders out there. So we know this stuff works, and that means you don't need, like typically, the industry standard is that you have this long pool of water through which, like the filament, cools off and it gets massage properly, but it's a big complex system, but I also do know that there's very tiny, desktop ones that there are some commercial proprietary ones that do work.

A

So we know we can make this work and just you got it, we got to figure out. You know start with this very simple one and then see what needs to happen. What accuracy we get and see how we need to improve it. Yeah.

A

E

Yeah I have school filler of the day, but all of that paste created by the end of the day, all.

A

Right excellent.

A

Yep so I think that's about all. For now it was a pretty long meeting, but I think we got started pretty well on and all this and we'll continue from there. So unless there's any other questions we can we can take off at this point.

F

A

Excellent. Well thanks everybody for bearing with that that was a pretty long meeting and we'll continue chatting so feel free to continue the discussion on email and the network that open source ecology, org thanks a lot.