►
From YouTube: Discussion with Ken Kesslin on Building Teams
Description
If you have a Massive Transformative Purpose - how do you build a team?
https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Ken_Kesslin
-----------------
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A
I
I
just
I
use
OBS
studio,
which
is
a
capture
screen
capture,
okay,
okay,
yeah,
yeah,
yeah,
so
yeah
doing
pretty
well
lots
of
stuff
lots
of
sighting
stuff
and
growth
happening,
and
all
of
that
yeah
I
wanted
to
see
like
what
we
have
US
common
ground
and
things
like
that
and
also
my
question
to
you
is
like
about
team
building
and
that
and
so
I
wanted
to
talk
about
team
building,
as
well
as
the
open
source.
I
mean
the
housing,
stuff
and
I.
Don't
know
if
that's
something
you'd
be
interested
in.
A
Maybe
we
can
collaborate
more
on
that
because
I
mean
part
of
that
is
we've
been
talking
about
for
some
time
about
starting
an
enterprise
that
can
via
Blee
do
this
in
a
replicable
way,
so
we're
doing
Belize
and
it's
kind
of
a
one-off
and
we're
trying
to
make
that
if
that
works,
then
we
continue
doing
that
in
a
more
regular
basis.
We're
actually
getting
the
land
donated
down
there
to
OSC,
so
OSC
would
be
the
owner
of
the
land
and
we
can
continue,
builds
there,
but
yeah
yeah.
A
A
A
B
Tell
me
a
bit
about
some.
What
I
I
saw
your
note
about
teams
and
I.
Don't
know,
I
heard
some
big
thoughts,
but
tell
me
a
little
bit
more
about
what
exactly
you
were
curious
about
our
what
you're
been
struggling
with,
either
in
building
what
you're
trying
to
do,
because
it
sounds
like
it's.
It
steams,
but
it
sounds
it
good
to
be
on
that.
It
sounds
like
you're
trying
to
find
a
sustainable
model
that.
B
A
Be
yeah
it's
definitely.
Over
the
last
decade
we
haven't
paid
much
to
deliberate
team
building,
I
mean
it's
something
that
was
in
the
background,
but
now
I
think
I
notice
the
real
reason
for
it,
because
the
kind
of
work
our
mission
is
collaborative
design
for
a
transparent
and
inclusive
inclusive
economy
of
abundance,
and
but
we
don't
have
a
team
like
so
Katrina
and
I.
We
live
here.
A
Cash
flow
yeah,
so
its
cash
flow.
It's
about
having
a
real
organization,
real
real
teams.
We
tried
it
a
little
bit
like
in
2013
hire
I
hired
four
people.
We
had
foundation
funding
from
Shuttleworth
foundations,
but
you
know
that
dried
up,
so
we
had
to
let
everybody
go
and
things
like
that.
So
never
never
built
up
a
team
and
and
as
we
go
forward,
there's
also
questions
like
okay.
A
How
do
you
I
mean
that
has
to
be
within
a
framework
of
a
solid
organization
where
there's
protocols
and
rules
and
all
of
that,
because
we
have
plenty
of
this-
of
this
wild
wild
west
kind
of
people
would
descend
here,
and
you
know
a
bunch
of
hippies
in
the
woods
running
around,
but
that
doesn't
work
at
any
event
of
the
day.
You
have
to
talk
about:
okay,
where's,
the
efficiency
where's,
the
economic
product,
the
financial
feedback
loops.
So
that's
that's
that
and
now
as
I
go
forward.
Why
do
I
pay
attention
to
the
teams?
Cuz?
A
Actually
one
one
guy,
there's?
Okay,
so
for
a
little
background
on
the
open
source
work,
my
ideal
was
always
that
you
can
keep
the
organization
to
a
minimum
in
an
open
source
framework,
because,
if
you're,
avoiding,
if
you're,
working,
transparently
you're,
avoiding
all
the
forms
of
competitive
waste
of
you
having
to
bottle
everything
up
behind
closed
doors
there
for
them.
So
and
that's
it,
that's
my
mental
model
like
I,
think,
okay
by
documenting
openly
building
upon
it,
you
don't
need
to
be
so
super
tight
and
superhero
about
it.
Like
oh,
like
Apple
gets.
A
You
know
the
super
rockstars
and
Amazon
gets
the
super
rockstars
and
they
create
a
product
here.
It's
like
I'm
trying
to
do
it
with
more
open
boundaries,
but
I
think
kind
of
running
into
the
limits
of
that.
Simply
because
for
open
hardware,
one
of
the
findings
is
wow
that
compared
to
open
software,
I
mean
open.
Hardware
is
so
much
harder.
You've
got
physical
plant
operations
Matt
and,
like
all
of
that,
you're
not
moving
electrons
you're,
moving
atoms
and
that's
much
much
harder
so
and
then
what
so?
This
one
guy
kind
of
shifted
my
mind.
A
So
this
one
guy
Adam
foyer,
who
runs
this
project
called
he
did
this
open
source
EEG
like
brain
waves
thing
and
it's
an
open
product,
and
he
says
oh
yeah,
some
company
just
took
that
and
made
a
six
million
dollar
business
out
of
that
I'm
like
okay
and
then
he
was
like
no
I.
Don't
work
with
you,
because
if
you're,
just
open
source
like
that
you're
gonna
end
up
concentrating
capital
instead
of
distributing
and
I
was
like
what
that's.
A
The
first
I
heard
that
kind
of
a
story,
and
this
was
from
a
guy
who's,
actually
doing
software
and,
of
course
he
got
burned
by
because
some
someone
stole
it,
but
that's
part
of
the
game
if
you're
like
we're
doing
important
stuff.
If
someone
wants
to
copy
our
business
of
building
homes,
I
mean
there'll,
be
great,
more
good
people
doing
it,
or
if
someone
wants
to
copy
our
business
of
doing
lifetime
design
cordless
drills,
let
them
because
right
now
cordless
drills,
end
up
in
a
dump
after
three
years.
A
So
we're
saying:
okay,
let's
take
the
bigger
vision
and
suffer
so
we're
not
afraid
about
that.
But
the
thing
that,
from
that
conversation
without
employer
that
stuck
with
me,
was
like
okay:
how
much
do
you
need
to
build
a
superstar
team
behind
closed
doors
versus
work
more
openly
and
I
still
believe
that
pending
proper
infrastructure,
you
can
work
openly
in
a
much
different
context
where
you
know
like
kind
of
blended
lifestyle,
where
your
work
is
your
life.
Your
life
is
your
work,
we're
getting
away
from
this
corporate
crime,
and
you
know
all
this
biggest.
A
So
once
again,
this
post
scarcity
scenario
where
okay
abundance
is
there
like
technology
today,
allows
us
to
do
that
like
way
way,
but
we're
not
doing
it
so
trying
to
shift
to
that
next
economy
of
how
what
the
framework
would
look
like,
but
right
now,
both
open
software
and
hardware.
My
view
actually
not
succeeding
well,
even
though,
like
software
has
dominated
in
the
open
source,
it's
still
the
models
behind.
A
It
are
still
very
proprietary
like
even
though
it's
open
code
Amazon
is
a
proprietary
company
or
Facebook
or
Apple,
all
of
them
who
built
their
their
business
on
Linux
and
open
source
code
they're
all
proprietary,
so
it
hasn't
moved
the
dial
for
the
economy
and
just
to
give
you
a
framework
for
how
we're
thinking
about
it
next
year.
We're
actually
planning
to
do
this.
This
cordless
drill
challenge
to
design
and
build
a
new
open
source.
A
A
It
so
show
a
first
real
example
where
that
can
happen
by
going
to
a
platform
called
hero,
X,
it's
a
in
the
sense
of
challenge
platform
to
spin
off
of
the
X
PRIZE
and
we're
saying:
okay,
we're
gonna
show
how,
with
a
$250,000
prize,
we
can
develop
a
product
and
actually
put
a
dent
in
the
ten
billion
dollar
cordless
drill
market,
it
market
industry,
which
is
now
dominated
by
like
four
companies.
So
it's
about
an
historic
transfer
of
wealth
from
the
few
to
the
many
that's
actually,
my
mentor
told
me
that
you
know
Steve.
A
That's
me
Steve,
who
Natalie
Natalie?
Okay,
he's
mentoring
me
on
the
project
with
a
current
development
of
that,
but
that's
that's
the
kind
of
framework
and
and
yet
and
so
I'm.
You
know
still
kind
of
like
been
in
an
open
source
for
like
a
decade.
It's
not
gaining
traction
and
still
working
hard
as
ever
to
make
that
happen,
and
also
really
questioning
the
team
aspect
like
okay.
A
What
is
the
infrastructure
of
a
team
that
can
fit
within
a
business
model
that
works
so
since
I've
been
kind
of
like
really
it's
been
like
solo
warrior
this
whole
time
in
a
way
like
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
volunteers,
come
in
and
out,
it's
there's,
no
retention,
because
there's
no
financial
feedback
loops
and
can't
pay
people
to
keep
people
around
so
trying
to
address
that.
But
at
the
same
time
create
like
for
people
like
me
who
are
struggling
through
that
kind
of
stuff,
make
it
easier
by
open
sourcing
that
infrastructure
of
okay.
A
B
Of
so
I
have
a
theory:
I
have
an
idea.
Yeah
respond
curious.
What
what
what
ideas
have
you
come
to
about?
Why
why
this
part
of
it
isn't
working
as
well
as
the
technical
part?
You
know
why
why
the
team
part
or
the
leadership
part
isn't
as
simple
or
as
logical
or
as
easy
to
put
together
as
the
you
know,
civilization
in
a
box
idea,
or
even
even
the
drill
competition.
You
know
that
could
happen.
You
don't
necessarily
need
a
huge
team
for
that.
C
A
It's
because
of
a
lack
of
focus
on
it
yeah
we
can
put
the
money
as
an
excuse
yeah,
we
never
did
have
constant
flow
of
money,
we're
kind
of
always
bootstrapping,
but
yeah
never
put
the
emphasis
on
that.
It's
like
because
developing
a
product,
that's
easy,
that's
hardware
and
stuff:
it
doesn't
talk
back
to
you
and
stuff,
but
but
for
people
just
never
had
the
consciousness
of
okay.
Here's
a
viewable
Enterprise
and
a
viewable
business
model
that
can
work
which
of
course
includes
funding.
People
just
never
spent
the
time
on
it.
A
So
right
now,
basically
saying
okay,
we
really
need
to
focus
on
that
and
when
we
go
into
a
project
think
about
how
do
you
first
really
attract
the
team?
Don't
don't
think
about
it?
Okay,
I'm
gonna!
Do
all
this
heroic
work,
which
is
what
I've
always
done
and
then
it
kind
of
goes.
But
then
it
hits
a
wall
right,
I'm
still
I'm
at
the
wall
of
essentially
a
solopreneur.
A
That's
where
I
am
and
I'm
saying:
no,
no!
No!
This
is
I,
refuse
to
do
that
anymore.
So
it's
it's
a
clear
consciousness.
That
needs
to
happen
like,
for
example,
what
we're
one
of
the
initiatives
right
now
is
developing
the
steam
camps
like
the
open
source,
microfactory
steam
camps,
where
we
teach
people
some
immersion,
immersion,
technical
training
towards
open
source
product
development.
So
now
I'm
saying
okay,
first
thing
is
I'm,
really
focusing
on
a
team
I
getting
the
instructors
and
here's
the
business
model
by
which
they're
getting
paid
and
so
forth.
A
A
To
where
you
imagine
no
not
yet
so
far,
it's
been.
There
was
a
surprise
there,
which
was
about
two
weeks
ago.
I
started
recruiting
full-time
and
I
thought
I'd
catch.
Two
people
just
like
that,
because
we're
offering
to
pay
five
to
eight
thousand
dollars
per
event.
That's
a
nine-day
event
and
I
thought.
Oh
yeah,
no
problem
people
will
just
flock
to
that.
I've
got
about
four
people
aligned
on
that
so
far,
but
by
and
far
everything
else
has
been
pretty
much,
no
too
busy
or
whatever
and
part
of
that
the
feedback
I'm
getting.
A
A
So
it's
a
lot
of
is
this
mindset
of
collaboration,
which
is
definitely
super
important
because
so
far,
I
have
not
succeeded.
Getting
any
people
who
are
so-called
like
the
big
names
to
conjoin,
it's
more,
the
collaborator
crowd
and
building
from
there.
So
that
part
is
working
and
weird.
We
do
have
some
decent
people,
but
it's
not
like
what
I
initially
thought
were.
Oh
we're.
Just
this
is
our
stuff
is
exciting
and
yeah
they'll
don't
sign
up.
You
know
the
TED
talk.
A
We
start
with
that
and
we're
saying:
okay
we're
going
to
teach
people
how
to
do
that
kind
of
stuff,
so
open
source
product
development
initiatives.
People
have
this
tool
set
for
doing
that,
engaging
that
using
fully
open
source
tool
chains
and
using
some
of
the
open
source,
digital
fabrication
machines
like
the
3d
printers
that
we
build
and
other
machines
that
are
available,
so
you
teach
people
design
and
build
and
all
that
towards
realistic
products.
That's
that's
the
goal
that
each
camp
builds
upon
last.
A
A
A
B
Seen
you
know,
I've
seen
your
work
real,
mostly
online
I've
seen
maybe
a
YouTube
video,
you
I
mean
I've,
definitely
seen
your
TED
talk
and
stuff
and
I
have
a
sense
that
you
are
technically
brilliant.
You
know
not
just
not
even
just
in
your
engineering
background,
but
you
have
the
ability
to
vision,
something
really
remarkable
so
I
think
those
are
the
areas
that
you
shine.
You've
made
great
use
of
your
ability
and
you've
dedicated
yourself
to
this
idea.
This
open
source
idea
and
you're.
B
C
B
A
B
A
B
Despite
our
best
efforts,
we're
not
logical
we're,
not
rational
a
lot
of
the
time.
We
don't
understand
our
emotions.
We
have
cultures
that
try
and
remove
that
from
us
or
never
teach
us
really
what
that
means,
and
so
we're
generally
not
very
good
at
the
parts
of
building
organizations
that
don't
fit
into
boxes
neatly
or
don't
have
easy
answers.
You
know
you
can
answer
an
engineering
problem.
That's
what
makes
it
an
engineering
problem.
It's
solvable!
You
just
have
to
be
smart
enough.
Yeah.
A
C
B
If
you
understand
the
rules,
people
operate
on,
you've
got
a
shot
and
they
don't
just
stop
right.
I
mean
there
are
simple
rules
like
greed
and
stuff
I.
Guess
that's
a
pretty
powerful
rule.
The
economy
works
on
that,
but
people
are
motivated
by
deeper
stuff
and
sometimes
stuff.
You
don't
know
about
and
sometimes
stuff
they
don't
share
with
you.
B
So
for
me,
when
you're
looking
at
people,
the
one
thing
you
can't
do
is
solve
it
in
your
head
in
advance,
like
you
can't
envision
how
it's
gonna
be
and
then
go
put
it
together,
because
at
every
step,
much
more
so
than
with
atoms
or
products.
You
hit
problems
there,
but
then
you
solve
them.
When
you
envision
an
organization
or
you
envision
a
team,
and
then
you
start
to
put
it
together.
Not
only
do
you
realize
that
some
of
your
imagining
was
a
little
off
but
then
you're
stuck
like
something
hits
you
like?
B
Like
I,
don't
have
a
toolkit
because
it's
completely
unexpected
and
it's
not
solvable
in
the
way
we
solve
technical
problems,
it's
what
is
called
an
adaptive
problem
and
it's
actually
something
you're,
also
very
good
at
it's.
A
trial
and
error
problem
and
it's
a
learn
from
problem
so
part
of
it
I'm
glad
to
see
you're
putting
attention
on
stuff.
But
it
also
sounds
like
you
to
me:
there's
an
urgency
to
try
and
solve
it
before
you
actually
have
tested
a
bunch
of
different
things
and
seeing
not
only
what
works
with
people.
What
does
attract
people?
B
B
A
Yeah
yeah,
so,
let's,
let's
take
a
look
at
like
one
one
topic
like
okay:
what
I
pitch
B
to
people
is
okay,
we
have
a
we're
trying
to
develop
a
way
that
open-source
product
development
can
become
a
viable
force.
In
fact,
my
mission
is
to
transition
the
current
economic
paradigm
from
proprietary
to
collaborative
now
and
Steve
said
an
historic
transfer
of
wealth
from
the
few
to
the
many,
so
perhaps
an
important
problem,
something
that
we've
solved
production
in
society.
We
have
not
solved
distribution.
A
If
you
talk
about
crowd,
masks,
crowd,
Development,
I,
think
the
incentive
challenge
format
has
proven
itself
to
be
the
most
robust
in
terms
of
producing
results
like
basically,
you
put
up
a
certain
amount
of
money
as
an
incentive,
and
people
will
end
up
spending
like
ten
times
that
amount
to
fight
for
the
prize.
But
we're
designing
to
be
absolutely
collaborative,
so
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
potential
there.
Ok
so
say
we
can
develop
products
in
a
replicable
way,
so
that
we
put
that
everything
that
society
makes
is
open.
A
Companies
like
General,
Electric
or
or
whoever
Boeing
they
go
to
just
like
with
Linux.
They
go
to
the
common
pool
of
design
as
opposed
to
starting
from
scratch.
That's
the
kind
of
model
we
envision
and
livelihoods
being
there
so
and
I
think
the
feedback
has
been
that.
Yes,
the
idea
of
livelihood
from
open
collaboration
I've
seen
that
resonate
with
a
number
of
people,
that's
good.
So
if
that's
the
case,
I
guess
what
am
I
trying
to
ask
here.
A
If
there's
this
big
vision,
that
a
lot
of
people
subscribe
to
and
I
think
I
mean
some
some
feedback
I
mean
I.
Did
have
some
feedback
that
says
yes,
this
is
definitely
worthwhile,
but
no
one
can
get
in
it's
super
hard
for
anybody
to
get
involved,
because
you
know,
then,
today
you
got
to
make
a
living
right,
which
we
haven't
solved,
but,
let's
say
there's
this
vision.
A
So
so
is
that,
like
my
question
keeps
being
like
okay,
how
do
we
can
we
actually
gather
a
team
around
that
or
in
a
massive
way
in
a
you,
know,
movement
transformative
way
or
is
it
no?
That's
not
how
it
works.
You
know,
like
I,
don't
know
I'm
trying
that
right
now,
which
is
to
attract
people
to
this
while
showing
that
the
economics
work.
But
do
you
have
any
comments
on
like
how
feasible
is
that?
Is
that
how
things
work
like?
Can
you
actually
attract
a
good
number
of
people
to
something?
If,
like
they
say?
A
Yes,
it's
great
I'd
love
to
do
it,
but
nobody
can
because
of
the
financial
feedback
loops,
but
now
that
we
are
putting
in
the
financial
feedback
loops,
which
I
think
is
what's
happening.
That's
that's
like
our
next
major
stage,
reggae
teams
revenue
like
no
real
organization
that
can
actually
sustain
people
I.
C
B
B
Think
some
grade
is
that
way,
and
most
people
are
in
their
livelihood
through
that
system,
whether
they
like
it
or
not,
and
people
respond
to
security
and
fear.
So,
even
though
people
may
want
something
changes,
something
that
very
few
people
willingly
dive
into
some
people
do,
but
mostly
are
like
you
know,
sounds
good,
but
you
know,
let
me
see,
you
know,
show
it
to
me
before
and
some
things
you
have
to
just
participate
in.
So
what
is
the?
What
are
you
trying
to
solve
for
really?
Are
you
trying
to
I
mean?
B
Are
you
working
towards
a
world
where
Commerce
has
radically
changed
and
our
self-sufficient?
Are
you
working
towards?
Is
that
the
main
thing
is
it
to
radically
change
the
financial
system?
Is
it
to
provide
safety
and
security
and
and
basic
necessities
for
people?
The
radical
transfer
wealth
for
me
honestly
and
I,
you
know.
Basically,
a
social
worker
in
my
heart
is
scary
in
the
sense
that
what
I
know
what
existing
wealth
will
do
is
fight
tooth
and
nail
to
kill
anyone.
Who's
been
trying
to
get
away
so.
C
B
C
B
Know
we're
gonna
be
Robin,
Hood
and
Robin.
Hood
was
great,
but
Robin
Hood
was
a
criminal
most
of
his
life
and
never
totally
changed
the
system,
and
so
you
keep
getting
like
well
do
we
want
to
be
outlaws
and
the
system
I
don't
know,
there's
almost
a
Buddhist
perspective
to
all
of
this
which
looks
at
things
and
says:
okay,
if
things
are
not
good
or
bad,
and
we
just
look
at
the
system
as
it
is
and
assume
that
there
is
some
reason
this
system
developed.
It's
not
the
logical.
B
The
fact
that
it's
not
a
technical
thing,
it's
I,
think
part
of
the
reason
we're
in
the
world,
wherein
is
human
nature,
has
led
us
here
for
at
least
human
nature
combined
with
social
training
has
led
us
here,
and
if
you
don't
understand
all
that,
you
can't
unlaid
us
here,
like
people
can
see
that
things
are
bad,
but
they
don't
know
how
they
participated
in
that
they
don't
know
why
they
chose
to
make
some
of
those
choices,
but
they
did
like
I.
Don't.
B
B
C
B
B
That
happens
is
me
it's
just
I
in
the
world.
The
world
is
me.
I
was
connected
to
this
other
person
and
I'm
somehow
not
connected,
but
I
still
feel
like
I'm
connected
everything
that
happens
is
me
somehow
I
control
that
light
and
dark
and
there's
no
separation,
and
then
we
learn
that
we're
separate.
So
in
a
sense,
we're
taught
that
we're
separate
we're
given
language
that
says
me
and
mine
yeah.
Where
does
that
come
from
some
culture
didn't
have
as
much.
C
B
B
B
B
A
It's
so
simple:
it's
just
freedom,
the
freedom
to
do,
Daniels,
pink
or
Daniel
Pink's,
or
rather
deci.
That's
the
original
guy.
That's
the
sub
determination
theory
we
can
pursue.
The
things
are
most
meaningful
and
important
to
us
as
opposed
to
worrying
about
making
a
living.
So
to
me,
it's
absolute
freedom.
I've
seen
that
coming
from
Poland
I
was
in
a
slave
state.
Behind
Iron
Curtain
came
to
America.
A
It
was
like
wow
what
a
difference,
and
my
life
has
been
pretty
easy,
didn't
have
any
problems
really
so
I'm
trying
to
say:
okay,
let's
create
that
opportunity
for
everybody
on
a
planet,
because
we
cannot
leave
people
behind
and
all
that,
that's
a
fun
fun
motivation.
So
that's
that
now,
underneath
that
freedom
is
of
the
biggest
observation
for
my
history
in
Poland
is
material.
Security
is
a
big
big
on
resource
conflicts,
still
our
dominant
paradigm
and
society
of
kind
of
drive,
our
politics
and
lifes
and
breakups
between
couples
and
all
that.
A
C
C
B
It's
that
it's
that
period
in
human
history,
when
people
do
what
they
love
and
they're
supportive
to
do
it
and
everyone
has
enough
to
eat
and
nobody's.
You
know
obscenely
what
wealth
is
not
a
sign
of
status,
it's
more
competence
and
kind
of
what
you
do
versus
what
you
were
given
by
four
generations
of
ancestors.
Yes,.
A
It's
about
creating
the
ethical
economy
where
to
me
it's
like
it's
pretty
simple
like
and
in
sociology
or
psychology.
You
must
have
heard
of
this
experiment
where,
in
one
setting
people
were
competitive
in
another
work
setting
they
were
helping
each
other
which
says
that
it's
the
infrastructures
in
the
world
that
that
it
can
determine
how
we
behave
right.
Now
we
have
an
infrastructure
in
the
world
that
determines
that
we
are
killing
each
other.
We
need
to
change
that
infrastructure
to
a
different
system,
so
that's
kind
of
I
want
to
piss
off
everybody
saying
like.
A
B
So
back
to
you
back
to
your
initial
question:
yeah,
which
is
how
do
you
engage
people
in
this
endeavor
in
a
way
that
actually
helps
you
with
energy
and
labor
and
participation
rather
than
cost
you,
because
just
it's
so
much
time
just
can
you
managing
people?
You
know
I
actually
have
time
to
do
the
work.
Yes,.
A
B
A
C
B
Otherwise,
you
just
get
a
clone
of
yourself
and
you
leave
out
most
of
the
world
because,
most
of
will
you
know
we
each
have
our
way
of
seeing
the
world
and
most
of
all
doesn't
see
things
exactly
where
we
do
ever
a
few
people
do
yeah,
but
those
not
that's,
not
a
team.
That's
as
clones.
That's
like
no.
B
B
A
A
Wanted
to
touch
with
you
on
what
are
your
interests
in
that,
because,
if
we're
going
all
the
way
down
to
Belize
to
experience
that
there's
common
interest,
so
you're
interested
in
the
natural
housing
and
stuff
like
that,
but
have
you
given
any
thought
to
that
at
the
enterprise
level
or
I
mean
one
thing,
I
would
ask,
is
yeah
I
mean
I
want
to
get
a
team
going
with
that
project
and
it's
definitely
an
agenda
for
open
source,
ecology
and
I.
Do
see
myself
doing
that.
C
B
B
B
B
Have
we
have
a
system
that
doesn't
really
provide
security
anyway
and
at
the
same
time,
I'm
also
aware
that
homes
are
expensive,
I
mean
I
can
afford
my
house
with
my
girlfriend,
couldn't
and
she
had
to
sell
her
home
and
I
convinced
her
to
sell
her
home,
but
she
was
convinced
that
owning
a
house
was
a
good
thing
in
our
world,
and
I
was
like
no
that's
the
marketing
and
you'll
be
broke
forever,
so
and
I
realized
more
than
half
the
population
is
in
in
this
country.
A
very
wealthy,
relatively
wealthy
country
is.
B
I,
don't
know
if
that's
because
just
generically
homes
need
to
be
that
expensive
or
if
that's
part
of
you
know
the
way
the
industry
built
itself
it
got
created.
So
I
am
interested
in
that
and
I
want
more
people
to
have
homes,
I,
think
homes
create
communities.
Ownership
is
very
different
than
renting
for
a
lot
of
people.
It
just
creates
a
different
social
fabric.
Yeah.
C
C
B
C
C
B
Is
a
master
of
clay
plasters
so
and
she's
built
and
designed,
probably
a
few
dozen
straw
bale
homes
in
the
Northeast
and
she's
lovely
woman?
All
you
know
anyway,
she's
very
wise
and
took
a
course
with
her
I
really
liked
her.
If
I
ever
built
anything
first
and
probably
hire
her
to
help
I
didn't
know
how
to
do
it
myself,
but
I'd.
C
C
B
B
B
B
C
B
B
C
B
C
B
And
you
don't
have
to
be
a
genius
to
learn
the
rules
and
play
some
of
it.
It
is
a
little
soul
killing
if
you
don't,
if
you
don't
see
it
as
a
game,
then
you
take
it
too
seriously.
What
else
think
most
people
have
good
hearts
in
it?
You
can
find
a
message
that
appeals
to
that
you'll
get
a
lot
of
support,
a
lot
of
because
everyone.
C
C
B
B
A
Were
the
hitches
that
you
hit
well,
the
the
last
the
hitch
from
the
last
decade
was
I
forgot
one
important
ingredient,
and
that
is
that
we
need
to
have
a
product.
It's
a
common
problem
of
the
open
source
world,
so
we've
been
prototyping
a
lot
and
never
paid
attention
to
the
business.
So
we've
not
scaled,
but
we
have
done
hundreds
of
prototypes.
We
know
how
to
build
a
house,
a
1400
square
foot
house
in
five
days
with
50
people.
We
know
how
to
build
3d
printers
tractors
and
you
name
it.
A
A
Once
you
have
more
pieces
and
the
ability
to
make
more
of
them
like,
for
example,
solar,
concrete.
You
know
we
got
gravel
underneath
our
our
place
here
we
take
out
our
tractors,
use
solar
panels
in
our
material
production
facility,
like
I,
talked
about
in
the
open
building
Institute,
and
we
do
crazy
things
like
making
our
own
block
make
even
making
the
cement
dune
are
like
doing
a
lot
of
stuff
from
rocks
sunlight
plants
saltwater.
So
I've
been
really
evolving
that
and
every
single
day
it's
like
wow.
This
is
so
feasible
and
crazy.
A
That's
why
I'm
I'm
going
through
this
questioning
of
okay,
given
that
that
is
and
and
it's
not
feasibility
or
anything,
why
can't
I
get
people
on
board
in
a
more
significant
way?
Well,
it's
because
you
have
to
understand
all
of
that.
First,
you
have
to
be
understand,
first
principles
and
you
have
to
be
numerate
and
all
that
so,
but
we're
very
enumerate
and
we
do
not
understand
basic
principles
of
the
physical
world.
A
So
when
I
tell
very
safe
to
people
that
the
Sun
gives
us
10,000
more
power
than
we
use
today,
it
doesn't
mean
much
to
a
person
to
me.
It
means
that
a
lot
of
things
like,
for
example,
that
we
can
handle
a
hundred
times
more
population
without
any
problems
which
is
a
crazy
thing
or
that
we
can
make
the
world
ten
thousand
times
better
or
ten
thousand
times
worse.
It's
like
we
have
all
the
options.
We
have
the
material.
We
have
energy
security,
therefore
material
security,
but
you
have
to
really
think
about
that
too.
A
B
B
C
C
B
B
B
C
B
C
B
B
Here's
the
thing
your,
for
example,
I've
I've,
looked
at
yourself
on
3d
printers
I
thought
a
company
thought
of
coming
to
when
your
3d
builds
and
just
so
instead
I'll
go
to
Belize
about
halfway
around
their
area,
just
to
play
with
with
you
with
mud
with
you
right,
but
the
3d
printer.
The
offerings
that
you're
doing
they're
very
attractive
to
a
certain
select
group
of
people.
C
B
Could
be
attracted
so
much
larger
group
of
people
how
but
the
market
would
have
to
be
very
different.
Well,
no
one!
No
one
really
gives
a
unless
you're
a
techie
about
a
3d
printer.
What
they
do
give
care
about
is
all
the
things
through
the
printer
could
make
if
they
have
and
that's
nowhere
in
your
stuff.
You.
B
Some
people
and
for
the
vast
majority
of
people
they
really
don't
care
what
a
3d
printer
does
or
how
it
works,
which
is
another
question,
but
they
just
want
the
output
of
it.
When
you
say
you
know
with
yeah
with
these
five
things
you
could
make
80%
of
what's
on
Amazon,
even
that
it's
not
a
good
statement
for
most
people,
because
it's
that's
pretty
different.
Then.
C
B
Have
to
imagine
they
have
to
really
think
about
it
versus
saying
hey.
You
know
these
five
things
that
you
just
spent
$3,000
on
over
the
past
year
with
a
$1000,
a
3d
printer.
You
could
have
made
those
for
yourself
and
a
hundred
times
more.
You
know,
so
it's
finding
what's
meaningful
to
individuals
and
then
saying
we
can
help
you
get
that
versus
coming
from
the.
B
Yeah,
which
is
what
you're
really
good
at
and
it's
probably
very
exciting
to
anyone,
who's,
technically
minded
or
engineering,
already
kind
of
in
the
hole.
That's
like
yeah.
Let's
do
that.
That's
not
most
of
the
population.
Most
the
population
gets
into
a
car
and
they
all
they
care
about.
Is
you
turn
the
key
and
it
takes
you
where
you
want
to
go
and
it
looks
cool,
that's
it.
So
this
whole
idea
of
being
able
to
build
your
own
car
maintain
your
own
car.
Whatever
it's
a
radical
shift
in
ownership
and
responsibility,
which
is.
B
B
B
We're
not
good
at
what
helping
people
really
feel
the
benefits
of
what
a
world
would
be
like
where
they
were
materially
secure
and
where
they
were
really
free
to
do
what
they
wanted.
Every
single
person
I
work
with
in
my
life:
that's
what
they
want.
That's
why
they
work
and
it's
kind
of
a
you
know.
It's
a
chugging
very.
B
A
B
B
B
It's
figuring
out
how
to
make
that
happen,
and
it
may
it
may
be
a
very
long
and
plan.
You
know
even
your
steam
project,
which
sounds
great
I,
think
it's
awesome.
It's
gonna
happen
in
two
years.
Thousands
of
people
aren't
gonna,
go
through
it
in
two
years,
because
the
first
half
a
dozen
times
you
run
that
you're
gonna
learn
things
are
gonna
mess.
You
know
it's
like
in
your
prototyping
yeah.
C
B
B
You
can
teach
people
3d
printing,
not
just
how
to
make
the
3d
printer,
but
what's
the
biggest
impediment,
3d
printing
I
have
next
fab
here
in
Philadelphia.
It's
a
great,
you
know
monthly
fee
workshop.
They
got
all
kinds
of
equipment
there
and
I
went
and
took
all
kinds
of
courses.
You
know
what
stopped
me
from
using
stuff
for
I.
B
Don't
have
I,
don't
have
a
background
in
CAD
design
or
I.
Don't
want
to
spend
the
time.
I
didn't
have
the
time
to
learn
the
software
that
controls
the
machinery.
So
if
I
didn't
understand
it
or
don't
have
to
keep
ability
to
do
it
and
the
time
and
I
don't
want
to
sit
down
and
learn
a
bunch
of
open-source
software
or
you
know,
have
to
buy
whatever.
C
A
B
C
A
B
Believe
that
your
most
viable
offering
is
teaching
and
teaching
what
you
know
and
finding
what
parts
of
what
you
know
seem
valuable
to
other
people
taking
your
steam
program.
What,
if
you
don't
run
it
yourself?
What
if
you
take
it
to
university
and
say
we'll
run
this,
for
you
give
us
your
name,
enroll
students
captured
tuition.
We
want
this
percentage,
I'll
bring
you
the
teachers,
they
do
the
facility,
you
know,
but
there
are
different
ways
to
partner
in
the
existing
infrastructure.
C
C
B
Instructors
for
all
you
know
so
anyway,
there's
there
are
unintended
side
effects
to
all.
Decisions
like
there
is
a
way
that
the
open
source
community
as
incredible
and
interesting
as
it
is
almost
exists
in
the
shadow
of
our
current
economy
in
some
way
and
people
don't
even
know
about
things
like
you
know,
open
source
software,
they
do
they
know
conceptually,
but
for
most
people
it
doesn't
unless
they're
involved
in
it
their
coder
or
they
use
it
and
are
involved
in
the
licensing
they.
B
Really
it's
a
small
group
of
people
who
have
a
sense
of
what
it
even
means
and
philosophically
it
may
be
important
but
I-
think
it's
more
important
to
just
demonstrate
something.
Viable
and
I
would
do
it
as
small
as
possible
to
make
it
easy
to
succeed.
Your
plans
are
big,
they're,
grandiose,
they're,
wonderful,
but
they're
complicated
yeah
in
many
ways
they're
complicated,
and
that
means
you
have
a
lots
of
places
where
you
can
kind
of
go
off
track
or
have
unexpected
costs
or
issues.