►
From YouTube: Manufacturing Change
Description
Conversation with Anna Sera Lowe. Notes at
https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Anna_Sera_Lowe
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B
I
I
post
typically
when
I
meet
people,
I
just
post
it
on
our
youtube
because
there's
a
bunch
of
people,
a
bunch
of
our
developers,
are
following
our
thread
and
all
that.
So
when
I
refer
to
various
work,
it's
like
I
say,
hey,
take
a
look
at
the
video
for
what
we
talked
about.
That's
what
I
do.
B
Yeah
yeah,
so
how
familiar
are
you
with
our
work
there?
I
I
don't
know
as
far
as
manufacturing
change.
Can
you
update
me
on
that?
As
far
as
our
work,
our
work
has
been
going
on
for
about
a
decade
and
just
give
you
a
brief
intro
and
then
maybe
you
can
tell
me
what
you're
up
to
but.
A
So
I'm
we
actually
met
once
I
don't
if
you
remember,
but.
A
B
A
I
also
know
martin
hauer,
I
think
he's
osc,
germany,
isn't
he
so
he
has
worked
on
a
couple
of
projects
that
I've
been
involved
in
over
the
last
couple
of
years
about
that
are
being
done
under
the
internet
production
alliance
that
are
around
creating
open
standards,
open
data
standards
for
different
different
things,
one
for
hardware,
documentation
and
one
for
mapping
of
manufacturing
capabilities.
A
B
Yeah
right
so
so,
I
think
some
of
the
latest
projects
latest
work
here
is
actually
it's
really
on
an
enterprise
front
in
terms
of
developing
the
enterprise,
because
we've
been
doing
a
lot
of
proof
of
concept
and
then
it's
now
time
to
to
really
roll
the
work
out.
We've
done
the
cdca
home,
which
is
the
structure
I'm
actually
in
right
now,
right
now
we're
doing
things
like
selling,
building
and
selling
3d
printers.
B
But
the
next
step
is
to
solve
for
the
big
issue
of
how
to
get
a
lot
of
people
to
show
up
to
get
hardware
projects
to
completion.
So
right
now,
actually
we're
planning
a
big
big
event
that
addresses
the
people
showing
up
issue
and
that
is
to
collect
2
000
people
for
a
weekend
kind
of
like
a
sprint
that
would
be
remote
on
the
house
itself
to
deliver
a
remarkable
product
which
we've
done
a
lot
of
work
on
like
the
cdc
home.
B
So
the
promise
there
is
to
develop
a
thousand
square
foot
house
that
you
can
build
with
a
friend
in
one
week
for
fifty
thousand
dollars
in
materials
that
would
cost
you
so
that
kind
of
a
package.
That's
our
latest
thing
to
basically
say:
okay,
we're
going
to
gather
a
carefully
crafted
architecture
of
people,
collaboration,
architecture
of
people.
I
can
make
this
happen
so
pretty
much
fill
in
during
that
time.
B
Phil
well,
first
of
all
prepare
for
that
align
everybody
to
coordinate
it's
a
huge
coordination
task,
but
at
that
point
publish
something
like
a
thousand
or
two
thousand
page
document
which
has
everything
from
your
design
to
the
enterprise
aspect.
So
we'll
include
the
enterprise
development
issues,
including
developing
the
website,
marketing
assets
and
the
whole
product
around
the
house.
So
it's
it's
a
crazy
thing.
It's
combining
kind
of
like
the
startup
startup
camp
with
a
hackathon.
A
Sorry,
I
just
I
just
want
to
make
sure
I'm
understanding
you
so
you're
teaching
people
not
only
how
to
build
the
house,
but
how
to
set
that
house
up
as
a
business
as
well.
Yeah.
B
Is
out
of
the
2000
people
were
aiming
for
200
entrepreneurs
that
are
going
to
build
10
houses
over
that
next
year,
each
so
it's
it's
got
the
execution
part
in
that
too.
So,
and
that
is
to
address
that
question.
That's
never.
I
don't
think
it's
ever
been
addressed
in
hardware,
which
is
how
do
you
get
to
a
product,
a
finished
product,
on
any
kind
of
a
predictable
time
scale.
You
know
so
outside
of
like
small,
heroic
efforts.
Can
you
actually
leverage
car
collaboration?
B
A
new
thing
that
we
think
is
new
here
is
just
the
idea
that
we're
all
working
together
like
if
you
take
a
look
at
any
incentive
challenge.
I've
not
seen
any
incentive
challenge
which
is
not
competitive
or
put
in
another
way.
I've
never
seen
an
incentive
challenge
which
is
collaborative
yeah.
It's
about
a
bunch
of
teams
competing.
So
what
happens?
If
you
actually
collaborate,
I
mean
it's
like
it's
a
complete
no-brainer,
but
for
some
reason
it
hasn't
happened
yet.
B
So
I
think
I
think
it's
time
to
make
it
happen
and
I'm
trying
to
study
that
for
what
the
closest
examples
are.
But
it's
the
closest
examples
are
quite
far
from
the
mark.
It
seems
so
we'll
see
what
happens
and
with
a
lot
of
promise
on
it.
We
think
we've
got
the
design
pretty
good.
I
mean
we've
done.
B
I
think
this
could
be
what
alastair
parvin
talks
about
with
the
wiki
house
of
delivering
housing
without
that
kind
of
deal.
So
that's
really
delivering
on
the
kind
of
promises
I
think
he
made
in
his
seminal
riding
on.
I
don't
know
if
you've
seen
his
article,
it's
called
housing
without
debt.
He
wrote
about.
You
know
the
wiki
from
which
I
read.
A
B
A
B
A
A
Of
the
machines
in
the
global
village,
construction
set
if
you've
got
kind
of
completed
designs
for
now,
because
I
think
last
time
we
talked
was,
I
think,
the
sort
of
brick
maker
and
the
3d
printer
from
memory
were
the
ones
that
you
had
yeah.
B
Cnc
torch
table
micro
tractor.
Those
are
all
pretty
much
also
circuit
mill.
Those
are
all
ready
for
product
releases.
B
I
mean
it's
a
question
of
taking
all
those
to
the
finish
line
in
terms
of
viable
businesses,
so
we're
really
getting
the
3d
printer
business
off
the
ground
right
now,
but
it
looks
like
through
this
the
recent
events
with
covet
and
stuff.
The
the
housing
part
is
really
motivated.
It's
like,
let's
solve
a
real
issue
right
now.
B
B
And
the
perennial
question
that's
still
outstanding,
though,
is
the
open
source
micro
factory
specification.
I
think
you
you
mentioned
about
okay.
What
are
the
places
that
have
machines,
but
what
is
the?
What
is
the
spec
for
this?
This
kind
of
open
source
micro
factory
infrastructure
that
will
allow
this
to
scale
rapidly
around
the
world?
It's
kind
of
a
thing:
that's
under
the
rug,
it's
still
not
have
been
addressed,
and
it's
one
of
the
gaps
in
the
open
hardware
community.
So
it's
actually
going
to
ask
you
if
what?
B
What
are
your
your
latest
thoughts
on
that
you
mentioned
about
the
mapping
out
the
fabrication
capacity
so
with
open
know-how,
group,
so
you're
involved
in
the
open,
know-how
group
there.
A
So
I'm
yeah,
I'm
less
involved
in
open,
know
how
so
that's
the
one
that
has
been
defining
a
standard
for
documentation
of
open
hardware
projects.
A
With
the
initial
aim,
just
being
discoverability
just
like,
how
do
you
figure
out
what's
out
there
yeah,
but
with
the
aim
to
to
go
for
further
into
portability,
so
people
don't
get
locked
into
one
platform,
but
actually
able
to
you
know,
share
a
design
to
multiple
places
and
retain
ownership
of
the
design
and
take
it
away
from
a
platform
and
take
it
somewhere
else
if
they
want
to-
and
you
know
and
ultimately
interoperability,
so
that
you
can
yeah,
I
mean
I
don't
I
don't
see
it
as
ever
being
realistic
that
there's
gonna
be
everybody
is
gonna
centralize,
their
open
hardware,
designs
onto
one
repository
and
that's
the
place
that
you
look
for
it.
A
I
think
that
there
are
there's
so
many
platforms
out
there.
People
have
you
know
for
different
purposes:
people
have
their
own
favorites,
and
rightly
so,
and
what
we
need
is
some
kind
of
you
know
meta,
search
capability
that
allows
you
to
look
for
things
across
platforms.
You
know
to
actually
be
able
to
figure
out
what
is
what
is
there?
So
so
that's
the
problem
that
open
know-how
is
is
trying
to
solve
and
that
we
would
went
through
a
sort
of
you
know.
A
Community
standard
building
exercise
last
year
released
a
first
version
of
the
standard
in.
I
think
it
was
about
september
time
and
since
then,
there's
been
sort
of
ongoing
work
to
you
know
just
to
move
things
forward
to
drive
adoption
of
it,
which
is
actually
going
really
well
and
to
you
know,
start
moving
towards
next
versions
of
the
standard
that
will
aim
to
be
to
do
a
bit
more.
A
So
then,
we've
also
this
year
kicked
off
an
exercise
that
we're
calling
open
nowhere,
which
is
around
mapping
of
of
manufacturing
capabilities.
A
Now
I'm
I'm
based
in
the
uk,
but
the
my
real
interest
is
in
like
small
scale
manufacturing
in
developing
countries,
and
how
can
we
enable
communities
in
remote
places
to
make
the
stuff
that
they
need?
A
So
I
actually
come.
I
came
from
a
supply
chain
background.
I
used
to
work
on
global
supply
chains
and
then
got
into
global
health
and
was
like
working
on
supply
chains
to
get
medicines
and
medical
devices
into
you
know
some
of
the
poorest
countries
on
earth,
and
that
was
when
I
started
you
know
looking
at
this
and
thinking
this
is
crazy.
Why
are
we
trying
to
move
all
this
stuff
everywhere?
Yeah.
A
You
know
where,
where
in
places
where
there's
so
little
supply
chain
infrastructure
that
it's
incredibly
difficult
to
do,
and
all
you
can
do-
is
put
loads
and
loads
of
inventory
in
the
system
and
hope
for
the
best.
Whereas
you
know
there
is
the
we
now
have
the
technological
possibility
for
people
to
start
making
what
they
need
much
closer
to
where
they
need
it.
A
So
that's
the
area
that
really
really
interests
me
so
open,
no
ware
is
about
understanding
what
manufacturing
capability
exists
in
a
place
and
we're
we're
trying
to
again
we're
working
on
developing
an
open
data
standard.
So
we're
not
trying
to
do
the
mapping
ourselves
which,
with
there
are
a
lot
of
different
efforts
that
are
done
to
map
things
like.
C
A
From
I
mean
you
have
okay,
you
have
like
the
fablab
network
or
something
that
has
you
know
data
on
all
of
their
places.
You
have
some
platforms
that
are
setting
up.
You
know
like
wikifactory,
like
3d
hubs.
All
of
these
kind
of
things
that
have
a
having
a
business
model
around
you
know
displaying
maps
of
different
types
of
manufacturing
capacity.
A
You
have
like
grassroots
efforts
like
there's
the
hackerspace
in
cairo
that
went
and
mapped
all
of
the
artisans
in
the
back
streets
around
them
like
they
wanted
to
know
who
can
make
what.
A
There
are
ngos
like
field
ready
that
I
work
quite
closely
with
that
as
part
of
their
work
will
kind
of
map,
something
like
where
are
all
the
3d
printers
in
nepal
or
where
are
the
injection
molding
factories
in
the
in
the
pacific
islands.
A
And
it's
about
these
data
sets
are
being
collected,
but
there's
never
any
way
that
you
can.
You
know,
look
across
them
or
add
anything
up.
C
A
Much
sensible
with
them
so
we're
trying
to
develop
a
data
standard
that
is
going
to
enable
information
to
be
basically,
you
know
to
become
sensible
so
that
you
can
know
what
you
can
compare
apples
to
apples
and
pairs
to
pairs,
and
you
can
actually
start
to
aggregate
up
some
of
this
data
and
look
at
questions
like
you
know
what
what
is
the
what
is
manufacturing
capability
across
a
particular
area
or
you
know.
Where
can
I
make
something
and
that's
where.
A
Back
to
the
the
hardware
documentation
standard
like
if
I've
got
a
product
that
needs
these
particular
machines,
where
can
I
find
those
machines
to
go
map
them.
A
B
A
Yes,
there
there's
not
really
much
of
a
website
for
open
nowhere.
There
would
so
these
are
being
done.
There's
a
group
of
people
and
organizations,
that's
sort
of
forming
a
nascent
alliance
called
the
internet
of
production
alliance
and
we're
just
in
the
process
of
developing
a
website
for
it,
and
it's
kind
of
I'm
not
so.
A
I've
seen
content
that
we've
been
reviewing
and
I'm
not
sure
if
anything
on
open
nowhere
is
actually
on
the
published
version
yet,
and
it
doesn't
look
to
me
like
it
is
there's
stuff
on
open
know
how
about
that.
But
the
other
thing
I
can
do
for
open.
Nowhere
is
afterwards
I
can
ping
you
there's
a
wiki
that
talks
about
the
project
and
you
know,
documents
all
of
the
conversations
and
things
that
we're
having
about
it.
So
I'll
send
you
that
link
afterwards.
B
Yeah,
as
far
as
is
anyone
working
on
the
actual
spec
for
the
machines
that
are
in
the
in
these
open
nowhere
places
or
that
list,
I
think
I've
seen
something
on
that.
A
A
I'm
just
trying
to
remember
where
this
one
was
the
equipment
group
is,
it
hasn't,
got
a
finalized
proposal.
It's
got,
there's
a
so
for
the
whole
thing.
We've
got
a
data
model,
that's
in
you
know
in
iteration,
but
but
yeah
on
the
equipment.
Piece
discussions
are
ongoing,
but
if
that's
something
you're
particularly
interested
in
you'd,
be
more
than
welcome
to
join
the
working
group
and
and
contribute
to
those
discussions.
B
We're
aiming-
and
this
is
with
what
group
this
is
with
open
know-how.
A
This
is
with
open
nowhere,
there's
a
a
subgroup
within
that.
Looking
at
how
we
characterize
equipment
yeah,
I
can
send
you
some
information
on
that
afterwards,
yeah.
A
I'm
chairing
the
the
working
group
yeah
it's
being
funded
by
the
shuttleworth
foundation.
A
A
But
it's
a
it's
an
open.
You
know
publicly
documented
community
effort
to
to
create
the
standard.
B
B
Oh
yeah,
okay,
okay,
review
and
iterate
technical
documents
with
less
pain
and
more
control.
I
see
that
okay
is
that
an
open
source
platformer.
A
B
Yeah,
okay,
yeah
yeah
so
and
as
far
as
the
maker
maker
net
alliance
is
there
other
stuff
going
on?
Are
you
familiar
with?
How
close
are
you.
A
So
we've
that's!
What
we've
now
renamed
the
internet
production
alliance.
C
A
And
it's
yeah,
it's
that's
going
pretty!
Well,
it's
still
at
the
moment,
a
loose
alliance,
but
one
of
the
things
we've
got
going
on
is
conversations
about
setting
up
an
entity
or
taking
over
one
that
belonged
to
one
of
our
members
and
yeah.
A
It's
it's
a
sort
of
reasonably
active
community
everyone's
got
day
jobs,
but
there's
you
know,
there's
a
lot
of
common
ambition
and
you
know
people
are
fundraising
for
things
that
we
can
work
on
together
and
the
the
different
standards
efforts
are
being
done
under
the
internet
production
alliance
and
we're
yeah
we're
looking
at
developing
more
kind
of
some
more
technical
proof
of
concept
stuff,
as
we
as
we
move
forward.
B
Yeah
yeah,
I'm
definitely
interested
in
the
discussions
around
the
equipment
base
cause
something
like
like
there's
the
den
spec
3105.
Now.
Maybe
there
could
be
one.
A
B
Yeah
yeah
that's
right
and
something
like
that
that
lays
it
out
clearly
for
what
like,
if
you're,
doing,
open
source
production,
what
that
infrastructure
looks
like
so
aiming
towards
that.
I'd
really
like
to
see
that
happen,
because
that
that's
you
know,
once
you
have
the
open
data
for
product
design,
I
mean,
then
you
need
to
manufacture
that.
So
it's
the
it's
down
the
road
I
think,
but
to
standardize.
That
would
be
important
in
a
sense
of
then.
This
has
a
real
chance
to
spread
spread
widely
to
all
places
around
the
world.
B
For
for
true
collaboration,
like
I
talk
about
the
concept
of
tool
chain
degeneracy,
which
is
that
unless
you
have
similar
or
reasonably
similar
tool
chains,
you
cannot
really.
You
cannot
really
reproduce
another
person's
work
effectively.
So
so
quality
control
or
distribu,
like
distributed
production
management
or
distributed
quality
control,
is
completely
impossible
and
nobody
has
really
heard
of
distributed
quality
control.
How
do
you
do
that?
Well,
no,
I
don't
think
anybody
really
does
it,
but
I
think
there's
potential.
A
It's
something
I've
really
looked
into
yeah
there's
I
haven't
so
yeah
it's
a
topic,
I'm
really
interested
in.
I
agree
there
are
no.
There
are
no
good
solutions.
There
are
some
some
sort
of
interesting
avenues,
but
it's
definitely
a
big
issue.
B
A
A
Quite
interesting,
so
in
nepal,
after
the
earthquake,
there
was
huge
amounts
of
rebuilding
which
needed
to
be
done
to
to
meet
earthquake
proof
specifications
and
there
are
massive
problems
with
traveling
around
the
country
and
problems
with
having
you
know
highly
qualified
engineers
in
different
places
and
so
on.
So
there's
an
organization
whose
name
is
not
on
the
tip
of
my
tongue,
but
I
will
have
in
my
notes,
oh
field
site.
They
were
called.
C
A
Field
site,
I
think
they
were
called,
they
were
doing
a
basically
an
app.
That
would
a
lot
that
would
allow
for
sort
of
remote
inspection
by
qualified
engineers,
so
that
you
know
people
would
have
to
kind
of.
We
would,
you
know,
build
something
to
a
certain
point
and
then.
C
B
A
Like
that,
so
so
that
was
one
approach.
Is
that
an
app
that
exists.
A
Yeah
it
was,
it
was
working
for
yeah
for
construction.
A
A
B
Can
you
send
a
link
on
that?
You
gotta,
keep
getting
it.
A
App.Fieldsite.Org,
I've
just
brought
it
up
on
my
laptop
and
I'm
talking
to
you
on
my
phone,
so
I
can't
play
field.
C
A
A
I
I
don't
know
it's
so
it's
at
least
18
months
since
I've
spoken
to
them.
I
don't
know
the
latest,
but
yeah
it
was
being
used
in
nepal.
Definitely.
A
Yeah,
that's
good,
so
that
there's
that
approach
there's,
obviously
plenty
of
people
do
the
centralization
approach,
which
is
get
the
stuff
made
remotely
and
then
get
it
sent
into
us
to
a
certain
place,
central
place,
which
is
not
very
scalable
at
all.
A
Another
approach
that
we've
done
a
sort
of
bit
of
experimentation
with
is
is
the
sort
of
the
pull
approach
via
business
models.
So
a
colleague
of
mine
built
a
blockchain
prototype
that
was.
A
C
A
Who
in
our
trial,
was
centralized
but
who
could
become
decentralized?
A
And
basically
you
know
you
have
to
you'd
have
to
get
approval
before
you
could
make
the
next
bit
and
it's
you
know
as
long
as
you've
got
the
quality
levels
specified
up
front,
which
of
course
is
a
very
tricky
issue
in
itself.
But
if
you
do
that
right
and
then
use
a
you
know,
yeah
a
blockchain
for
that,
then
you
can
make
so
our
theory
is-
and
it's
not
been
tested.
A
But
the
theory
is
that
that
would
drive
quality
compliance,
because
people
would
know
it's
precisely
baked
into
whether
the
money
gets
released
at
the
end
or
not.
A
A
A
My
understanding
and
I'm
you
know
I'm
not.
I
speak
to
andrew,
very
frequently,
but
not
so
often
about
field
ready
stuff.
So
you
know
I'm
not
the
most
in
the
loop,
but
they
basically
as
a
humanitarian
organization
they're
trying
to
make
aid
supplies
close
to
the
point
where
they're
needed,
but
as
part
of
that
they
do
a
lot
of
stuff,
which
you
do.
A
lot
of
experiments
which
is
very
relevant
to
you
know
to
the
kind
of
things
that
we're
interested
in.
A
So
one
of
the
the
projects
that
they've
had
going
on
is
making
so
buckets
for
water
collection,
trying
a
different
approach
to
the
aid
system
for
them,
which
used
to
be
get
them
all
injection
molded
in
one
place,
store
them
in
huge
warehouses
and
then
fly
them
into
somewhere.
Where
there's
a
disaster
and
they've
actually
had
tooling
made
for
to
injection
mold
those
buckets.
A
So
the
tooling
can
be
moved
into
a
disaster
zone
and
use
locally
available
feedstocks
and
local
injection
molding
factories
to
to
produce
them,
and
that's
one
thing:
they've
been
working
on
they've
just
got
a
big
grant
to
do.
Work
in
bangladesh,
iraq,
kenya
and
uganda,
which
is
going
to
include
some
mapping
of
manufacturing
capability,
doing
the
using
the
open
nowhere
standard,
that's
being
developed.
I
think
it's
a
kind
of
it's.
A
I
think
the
project
is
like
a
mapping
of
what
the
local
capability
is
compared
to
what
the
humanitarian
need
is
and
how
those
things
can
be
matched
at
a
much
more
local
level
rather
than
bringing
stuff
in
from
all
over
the
globe.
Yeah
they're
involved
in
a
bunch
of
stuff
that
I
don't
know
about
so.
B
A
Sure
so
I
in
in
my
in
the
world
that
I'm
involved
in
I
mean
I
love
the
idea
of
being
able
to
specify
the
the
machines
and
and
say
you
know
it's
going
to
be
like
this
and
have
them
everywhere.
A
Because
you
know
there's
actually
a
lot
of
you
know:
welders
and
smallish
scale,
injection,
molders
and
carpenters,
and
you
know
lathes
and
all
kind
of
you
know
tools
that
it
can
be
tapped
into.
But
that
aren't
being-
and
I
really
see
that
as
as
quite
an
urgent
need.
A
Yeah,
I'm
also
particularly
interested
in
any
machines.
You
have
that
that
kind
of
enable
business
models
by
themselves
like
the
idea
with
a
brick
maker.
I
always
like
that
because
it's
you
know
you.
If
you
can
have
somebody
making
and
selling
machines,
then
you
can
have
other
people
whose
business
becomes
to
sell
the
bricks
kind
of
thing.
A
B
B
A
B
A
Okay,
there's
there's
a
guy.
I
know
the
most
amazing
engineer
and
entrepreneur
in
a
small
town
in
kenya
who
has
built.
A
B
Can
do
you
can
probably
do
if
you
use
lower
power
hydraulics
and
you
have
like
you-
could
probably
get
it
down
to
about
3
000,
if
you're,
really
clever
yeah
but
there's
definitely
costs
involved
is,
is
the
guy
actually
making
block
like
this
is
for
bricks,
bricks
that
are
fired
or
what
kind
of
bricks.
A
No,
it
wasn't.
A
No,
I
think
it
was
more
like
it
wasn't
like
a
natural.
I
think
it
was
more
like
maybe
some
kind
of
a
cemental
concrete
type
thing
that
was
setting
wow
that
doesn't
sound.
A
A
Yeah
I've
got
a
load
of
photos,
but
I
don't
find
them
the
notes
right
here,
but.
A
No,
it's
it's
going
pretty
well,
I
I
was
only.
I
was
involved
operationally
for
about
year
year
and
a
half,
and
then
I
was
on
the
board
for
another
two
years
and
then
we
were
bringing
in
a
load,
more
local
board
members,
and
it
seemed
a
time
just
to
step
back
and
it's
now
completely
locally
run
and
I'm
not
officially
involved
in
any
capacity.
B
Yeah
yeah
like,
for
example,
the
guy,
saw
the
guy
in
kenya
with
the
block
maker
I
mean,
is
there
interest
in?
Do
you
think
that
actual
block
stabilized
block
like
compressed
earth
would
be
accepted
there?
That
would
be
something
that
would
work
because
that's
a
definite
case
for
a
viable
enterprise.
If
somebody's,
not
entrepreneurial,
the
missing
link
is
the
people
who
actually
take
this.
Take
the
work
on
and
actually
go
through,
the
diligence
of
turning
that
into
a
viable
business.
B
A
Yeah
and
that's
and
that's
the
tricky
part,
I
mean
I've.
I've
done
some
work
over
the
years
with
tech
for
trade
and,
if
you're
familiar
with
them,
but
they
yeah
made
a
3d
printer
to
try
and
get
people
to
set
up
businesses
making
and
or
using
those
and
yeah.
I
mean
they've,
had
some
success,
but
there's
a
lot
of
challenges
in
it
and
in
finding
people
I
mean
the
like.
A
I
guess
skill,
I
guess
it's
partly
skill
set.
I
mean
I
think
it's
hard
to
find
people
who
have
the
combination
of
technical
skill.
That's
often
needed
to
deal
with
an
open
hardware
type
product
combined
with
you
know,
business
skills
right.
B
C
A
To
make
a
business
and
sell
it
and
yeah
yeah
it's
it's
a
it's
a
tough
nut
that
I
don't
have
a
good
answer
for
yet.
B
A
The
best
example
of
that
is
tech
for
trade,
and
they
are
the
closest.
So
if
this
is,
if
we're
talking
about
pet,
so
yeah
people
you
can
you
can
crunch
up
old,
prints,
pla
and
re-extrude
it
lots
of
people
can
do
that.
But
you
know
that's
not
something.
That's
pla
is
something
that's
readily
available
in
waste
plastic
streams.
In
most.
C
A
So
the
holy
grail
is
to
get
a
machine
working
with
pet,
so
tech
for
trade
have
got
by
far
the
closest
of
anyone
I've
seen
to
using
to
being
able
to
extrude
post
consumer
pt.
A
They
are
producing
filament,
which
has
been
used
in
test
prints
successfully,
but
they're
still
struggling
with
the
consistency
of
the
diameter
of
the
filament
produced.
I
think
that's
always
one
of
the
challenges
we've.
This
is
something
so
I'm
I'm
actually
not
working
as
much
at
the
moment
as
I
would
normally
be.
A
I've
got
some
family
stuff
going
on,
so
I'm
kind
of
I'm
keeping
some
things
going
and
there's
other
things
that
I
would
that
I
would
really
love
to
be
putting
more
effort
into
that,
I'm
not
at
the
moment,
but
we'll
pick
up
again
in
the
future.
A
So
one
of
them,
one
of
those
is
we
last
year,
started
an
effort
we
to
basically
try
and
get
together
some
more
technical
horsepower
behind
the
the
tech
for
trade
effort,
because
they've
got
closer
than
anyone
else,
and
so
joshua
pierce
and
his
group
at
michigan
tech,
some
guys
at
the
university
of
lorraine,
guys
at
university
of
oxford.
A
In
the
uk
and
bath
and
aston,
we've
got
a
sort
of
a
nascent
group
who's
interested
on
in
you
know,
trying
to
develop
faster
on
this,
this
pet
extrusion
challenge
and
there's
you
know,
there's
some
things
that
are
going
so
I
know
that
there's
a
team,
an
instrument
open
instrumentation
group
at
bath
up
now
working
on
a
diameter
sensor
to
give
a
you
know:
feedback
looping
for
the
the
extrusion,
but
there's
a
lot
more
that
you
know,
there's
other
things
that
need
to
be
done
it
just
it's
just
stuff
that
needs
to
be
picked
up
in
chunks
and
optimized.
C
A
Getting
that
to
feed
consistently
is
really
tricky
and
stuff
like
that,
so
yeah,
it's
it's
sort
of
hobbling
along
and
I'm
not
doing
much
to
galvanize
it
at
the
moment.
But
I
would
like
to
when
I.
C
A
I
think
that's
really
important,
I
mean
for
me,
that's
actually
a
game
changer
when
it
comes
to
making
3d
printing
viable
in
you
know
around
the
world.
B
We're
highly
interested
in
that
so
the
latest
for
from
our
site
is.
I
took
basically
do
that
through
the
shredder
part,
so
we're
looking
at
taking
the
precious
plastic
shredder,
but
adding
like
a
hundred
dollar
drive
system
to
it.
Instead
of
a
two
thousand
dollar
drive
system
to
take
a.
A
B
A
B
A
At
the
shredding,
so
so
the
approach
that
tech
for
trade
have
taken
for
that
is
is
actually
really
simple.
So
they've
done
some
experiments
with
different
types
of
plastic
and
they've
found
that
basically
they're
focusing
on
pet
water
bottles,
because
you
can
separate
them.
A
You
can
find
big
producers
of
them
and
separate
them
out
before
they
get
it
too,
dirty
in
a
general
way
stream,
big
users
of
them,
sorry,
not
producers,
so
like
collecting
them
from
a
hotel
or
something
like
that,
and
then
they've
developed
a
machine
that
basically
kind
of
cuts
them
peels.
A
A
It's
that's
not
the
bottleneck
at
the
moment
I
would
say
I
I
can
see
that
yes,
it
would
be
good
to
find
ways
to
scale
that
up,
but
at
the
moment
nobody's
cracked
the
issue
of
no
matter
how
well
chipped
or
shredded
the
stuff
is:
how
do
you
extrude
filament
from
that.
C
A
A
If
you
were
trying
to
have
a
a
3d
printing
facility
in
a
village
that
could
enable
production
of
spare
parts
when
they're
needed,
then
something
like
that
is
actually
probably
fine.
B
Yeah
yep
yep.
What
about
all
the
there's,
a
bunch
of
commercial
pel,
pellet-based,
filament
makers?
I
mean
any
of
those
capable
of
doing
anything.
So
what
is
the
issue
with
that?.
A
So
it's
so
it's
quite
a
soft
plastic,
and
it's
it's
just
it's
really
hard.
I'm
not
this
is
you
know
this
is
boiled
beyond
the
edge
of
my
my
expertise,
but,
as
I
understand
it,
it's
really
difficult
to
get
it
to
extrude,
consistently
it
kind
of
sags
as
it
comes
out
of
the
nozzle
and
creates
an
oval
filament,
and
that
that's
the
big
problem
that
everyone
has.
A
Abs
is
more
widely
available,
but
there's
there
are
it's
not
something
I've
looked
into
as
much,
but
I
think
there
are
quite
some
problems.
A
With
abs
as
well
yeah,
no
with
with
the
extrusion,
I
think
I
don't.
I
don't
know
as
much
about
that.
Yeah
yeah.
A
B
A
It's
technically
difficult
and
there
hasn't
been,
there
hasn't
been
a
sort
of
consistent
focus
on
it.
I
mean,
as
I
said,
tech
for
trade
have
got
by
far
the
furthest,
and
they
are,
you
know,
not
well
funded,
not
you
know
not
with
kind
of
huge
development
teams
or
or
anything
I
mean
like,
I'm,
I'm
sure
that,
with
a
bit
more,
you
know,
one
of
the
university
teams
could
have
cracked
this
if
they
had
had
a
focus
on
it
for.
C
A
B
A
Yeah
it's
it's
both
I
mean
it's
yeah
university
teams
can
only
work
on
stuff
that
they're
funded
to
do
generally
so
yeah,
absolutely
funding
is
needed,
but
it's
you
know,
there's
also
a
sort
of
coordination
needed
between
different
people,
and
you
know
sometimes
I
feel,
like
part
of
my
part
of
the
useful
stuff
I
can
do.
There
is
just
to
kind
of
keep
reminding
people
to
put
it
in
funding
applications
and
things
like
that
and
try
and
coordinate
different
partners
to
come
together
around
a
funding
application.
B
B
B
A
A
Okay,
yeah,
okay,
so
so
when
I
do
so
when
I
do
start
to
to
try
and
get
things
moving
again
on
that,
the
pt
extrusion
efforts,
are
you
interested
in.
A
Okay,
that's
that's
wonderful
and
are
you
interested
in
joining
up
the
internet
production
alliance
as
well
yeah
yeah?
I
could
do
that
awesome,
I'll
yeah
I'll,
send
you
some
information
about
the
sort
of
overall
aims
of
the
alliance
and
things
what
we're
trying
to
do,
but
yeah
from
some
of
the
things
that
we've
been
talking
about.
I
think
it's,
I
think
it's
a
fairly
good
fit.