►
From YouTube: Maker Riot - Mass Collaboration Explained
Description
To appear on the Maker Riot Podcast.
https://www.makerriot.com/about
Thanks Joel.
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A
A
Got
it
marcin?
How
are
you
doing
well,
do
you
mind
if
I
record
this
also
just
for
my
notes
not.
B
At
all,
yeah,
actually
that
might
even
help
me
if,
okay,
I
was
gonna
say
if
you
could
share
yours
with
me:
that'll
get
better
audio
on
both
of
our
ends,
so
that.
C
B
Located,
I
am
in
just
north
of
indianapolis.
A
B
I
am
yes,
okay.
I
my
job
is
kind
of
weird
I
sort
of
made
my
own
job.
So
my
background
is:
I
started
out
as
as
a
an
english
teacher
in
middle
school
yeah,
and
then
I
went
to
school
for
graduate
school
for
library,
science
and
was
kind
of
moving
toward
working
in
archives
and
conservation.
B
Yeah
and
a
job
opened
up
in
our
school
in
the
library,
and
so
I
took
it
and
then
I
sort
of
I
moved
into
the
high
school,
probably
six
or
so
years
ago,
and
from
there
I
kind
of
tried
to
reimagine
what
that
space
could
be.
So
I
have
a
I
have
a
space.
We
call
the
idea
farm
where
students
come
in
and
we
work
together.
A
B
Yeah
yeah,
I
do
I
mean
it's
funny
that,
like
for
some
students,
it's
really
like
the
students
that
I
end
up
with
it's
a
you
end
up
with
a
lot
of
just
introducing
the
idea
of
thinking
with
your
hands
is
what
I
always
call
it
yeah,
which
I
think
is
in
some
ways
a
completely
new
way
of
doing.
C
B
For
them,
so
I
feel
like
we
spend
a
lot
of
time,
just
sort
of
re-imagining
what
it
what
that
can
look
like,
but
yeah.
I
do,
I
think,
there's
a
lot
of,
I
think,
there's
a
lot
of
interest.
A
lot
of
a
lot
of
the
folks
who
I'm
connected
with
kind
of
around
the
country
are
are
very
interested
in
a
more
what
I
would
call
a
more
authentic
engagement.
A
Yeah,
have
you
ever
given
thought
because,
because
the
thing
we're
trying
to
kick
off
like
we're
trying
to
see
if
we
could
do
that
next
year,
actually
I'm
looking
at
going
to
the
national
association
of
independent
schools
conference
next
year.
Have
you
have
you
heard
of
that
thing
or
no
okay,
but
we're
looking
to
spawn
this
collaborative?
We
call
it
open
source,
ecology,
classroom,
but
basically
a
thing
where
all
the
different
teams
from
all
the
different
schools
work
together
on
projects
so
really
focusing
on
the
collaborative
design
aspect.
A
Have
you
thought
along
those
lines
ever
like?
How
would
you
work
with
others,
because
for
us
it's
about
okay?
Well,
let's
work
with
all
these
kids,
all
these
different
schools,
but
create
real
things
like
real
products
that
come
out
of
it.
How
about
like
a
like
a
renewable
energy
car
or
something
like
that
or
whatever
kind
of
like
first
robotics,
but
with
more
benign
goods,
things
that
usable
goods
yeah?
Yes,.
B
I
I
would
be
very
interested
in
something
like
that.
I
I
have
thought
often
about
that.
I
I
actually
connected
with
a
teacher
over
the
summer.
I
do
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
teacher
training
and
things
like
that,
and
so
I
participated
in
this
thing-
that
we
call
the
maker
educator
boot
camp
over
the
summer
and
connected
with
a
teacher
in
chicago
who
teaches
coding
through
music,
making.
A
B
B
So
I'm
part
of
the
of
a
group
called
the
maker
educator
collective
and
we
are
researchers,
educators,
museum
officials,
you
know
kind
of
a
broad
range
of
of
people
around
the
country
and
basically
our
goal
is
just
to
get
more
teachers
involved
in
making
making
stuff
in
in
their
classrooms.
And
so
the
boot
camp
is
a
is
a
program
that
we've
run.
This
was
our
third
year
this
year,
it's
put
on
by
the
infosys
foundation
at
iu
bloomington.
B
So
basically,
we
have
approximately
70
or
so
teachers
from
around
the
country
who
come
in
and
and
we
sort
of
train
them
on.
You
know
different
tools,
ideas.
You
know
things
like
that.
So.
B
The
emphasis
info.
A
Foundation
foundation,
look
at
a
major
maker
education,
boot
camp
yeah.
I
found
something
online,
it's
august
6
to
9
last
year.
That
was
not
not
this
year.
A
B
Yeah
they
are
a
different
organization.
Remake
learning
is
I'm
trying
to
remember
where
they're
out
of
I
know
them.
I
want
to
say
they're
out
of
dc,
maybe
okay
but
they're
they're
a
foundation,
a
non-profit,
that
they
are
very
much
in
the
they're
a
little
more
in
the
kind
of
I
would
say,
theoretical
research
realm,
where
we're
we're
a
little
bit
more
of
the
boots
on
the
ground,
hands-on,
like
yeah,
so.
B
Yep
yep
we've
done
a
little
bit
of
work
with
them.
We've
done
some
work
with
maker,
ed
out
in
the
bay
area,
so
yeah
yeah
a
lot
of
kind
of
overlap
between
a
lot
of
these
groups,
so.
B
A
B
So
it's
kind
of
funny
because
we're
not
a
super
tight
organization
in
in
terms
of
like
we,
we
get
pretty
nebulous,
so
a
lot
of
us
will
break
off
and
do
other
projects.
At
the
same
time,
it's
kind
of
the
maker
educator
collective
is
more
like
an
umbrella
because,
like,
for
example,
this
summer
me
and
adam
who's
at
iu,
bloomington
and
casey
who's
out
in
the
bay
area
and
one
of
the
ladies
who's
out
in
virginia.
B
We
were
participating
in
this
thing
that
we
called
co-build,
which
was
a
research
project
funded
by
the
national
science
foundation
and
infosys
foundation,
where
we
were
trying
to
engage
families
and
children
who
were
home
during
the
the
stay-at-home
orders
in
maker
virtual
through
a
virtual
environment,
so
trying
to
make
things
together.
So
we
were
developing
content,
sending
those
out
to
doing
camps
all
kinds
of
things
like
that
in
a
more
virtual
environment
to
see
what
that
looks
like
and
to
see
like
what
the
impacts
are
for
research
yeah.
B
A
B
Fascinating
fascinating
work,
though
yeah
yeah,
okay,
so
we
I
have
a
co-host
caitlin,
okay
and
I'm
going
to
just
text
her
real,
quick
and
see
if
she's
going
to
join
us.
B
A
B
C
C
C
I
had
no
practical
skills.
I
mean
the
world
presented
me
with
options
and
I
took
them.
I
guess
you
can
call
it
the
consumer
lifestyle.
So
I
started
a
farm
in
missouri
and
learned
about
the
economics
of
farming.
I
bought
a
tractor.
Then
it
broke
I
paid
to
get
it
repaired.
Then
it
broke
again
and
pretty
soon
I
was
broke
too.
C
I
realized
that
the
truly
appropriate
low-cost
tools
that
I
needed
to
start
a
sustainable
farm
and
settlement
just
didn't
exist.
Yet
I
needed
tools
that
were
robust.
Modular
highly
efficient
and
optimized
low
cost
made
from
local
and
recycled
materials
that
would
last
a
lifetime
not
designed
for
obsolescence.
C
So
then
I
published
the
3d
designs,
schematics,
instructional
videos
and
budgets
on
a
wiki,
then
contributors
from
all
over
the
world
began
showing
up
prototyping
new
machines
during
dedicated
project
visits.
So
far
we
have
prototyped
eight
of
the
50
machines,
and
now
the
project
is
beginning
to
grow
on
its
own.
C
If
we
can
lower
the
barriers
to
farming
building
manufacturing
that
we
can
unleash
just
massive
amounts
of
human
potential,
that's
not
only
in
the
developing
world.
Our
tools
are
being
made
for
the
american
farmer
builder
entrepreneur
maker.
We've
seen
lots
of
excitement
from
these
people.
Who
can
now
start
a
construction,
business
parts
manufacturing,
organic
csa
or
just
selling
power
back
to
the
grid?
C
C
A
B
A
That's
cool:
that's
what
we
do
and
yeah
we're
trying
to
right
now
we're
pretty
much
developing
the
revenue
models
around
all
the
products.
So
we've
done
a
lot
of
r
d
to
date
and
now
getting
things
out
there
like
starting
to
sell
the
3d
printers
next
year.
We
want
to
start
selling
the
tractors
and
actually
producing
the
houses.
It's
going
to
be
a
big
initiative
next
year.
B
That's
great
okay,
so
I
haven't
heard
back
from
from
caitlin,
so
I
say:
let's
just
jump
in,
let's
get
started
so
we'll
start
by
just
having
you
say
your
first
and
last
name:
okay,
marchand
jakubowski,
all
right
marcin!
So
let's
jump
in
here
you
are
the
founder
and
the
creator
of
something
called
open
source
ecology.
Can
you
maybe
tell
us
the
story
that
that
you
talk
about
in
your
ted
talk
of
of
how
you
came
to
this
whole
idea?
Yeah.
A
So
yeah
finished
a
grad
school
with
a
phd
in
plasma
physics,
and
I
discovered
I
was
useless.
A
So
the
thing
is,
I
was
studying
science
and
the
farther
I
went
the
less
useful
I
felt,
and
what
got
me
started
on
this
was
the
idea
that
actually,
in
a
graduate
program,
I
could
not
talk
openly
about
my
work
to
others
and
I
thought
about
wow
what
a
great
waste
this
is
that
we
can't
even
share
our
work
openly,
because
we're
competing
with
other
groups
for
funding
and
disclosing
our
stuff
would
mean
that
someone
else
could
take
it
and
run
with
it.
A
But
when
I
noticed
that
I
started
thinking
about
what
what
true
open
collaboration
would
really
look
like,
I
couldn't
find
it
in
the
grad
school
level,
even
in
their
public
institutions,
and
I
figured
that
was
a
persistent
problem
everywhere.
So
at
one
point
someone
also
introduced
me
to
linux
during
the
open
source
operating
system
and
put
putting
two
and
two
together.
I
said:
okay,
let's
start
a
project
and
try
to
try
to
collaborate.
B
A
A
It's
definitely
at
that
scale
I
mean
that's,
that's
the
kind
of
nature
of
what
we
talk
about,
but
if
you
think
about
what's
happened
with
software
and
software,
the
that's
an
operating
system
for
how
a
lot
of
the
infrastructure
of
today
is
working
because
a
lot
of
more
things
are
getting
getting
electric
and
electronics
and
information
economy.
A
A
Unfortunately,
over
the
last
200
years,
we've
had
this
inertia
of
patents
and
protectionism,
starting
with
the
industrial
revolution
that
such
that,
when
software
came
out
and
that
open
source
software
like
linux,
came
out
in
the
90s
there
was
some
culture
built
around
that
said.
Oh,
we
can
collaborate
openly
that
open
culture
already
existed
there
in
some
way,
whereas
for
hardware
we're
trying
to
do
it
identically
the
same.
How
do
you
collaborate
on
developing
the
physical
artifacts?
A
Not
only
the
products
like
open
source
product
development,
but
also
how
like
institutions
that
are
transparent
and
open
and
collaborative
which-
which
is
definitely
not
the
case
today,
and
in
fact,
to
the
point
that
I
mentioned
the
word:
artificial
scarcity
and
abundance
of
all
the
resources
out
there.
A
Why
is
so
many
people
still
deprived
and
the
equality
issues
or
resource
issues,
hunger,
poverty,
war,
that's
a
that's
a
systemic
issue
that
is
not
validated
by
any
reality,
such
as
real
scarcity,
there's
plenty
of
resource,
there's
plenty
of
energy
that
comes
from
the
sun
for
any
physics
teacher.
They
will
know
that,
there's
ten
thousand
times
more
power
coming
from
the
sun
that
we
use
today,
even
in
our
wasteful,
more
or
less
wasteful
economy,
wasteful,
but
by
wasteful,
I
mean
kind
of
throwaway
society.
A
Is
that
how
most
things
work,
but
even
if
we
take
that
wasteful
economy,
which
provides
us
abundance
naturally
in
some
way,
there's
still
like
ten
thousand
times
more
power
that
we
have
accessible,
we're,
hardly
scratches
surface
of
resource
use
or
wise
resource
use
right.
So
we
need
to
think
about
it
differently,
a
new
operating
system,
how
we
will
work
on
earth
in
a
collaborative
way.
A
Here's
the
idea
so
because
there's
still
these
massive
inequalities
of
wealth
between
the
first
and
third
world
and
then
a
third
world
and
a
fourth
world,
the
poor
regions
of
developed
countries,
I
mean
that's,
that's
a
blatant
fault
right
there
I
come
from
poland,
so
I
actually
know
the
world
before
I
came
at
the
age
of
10
was
the
communist
regime
and
it
was
kind
of
dark
and
gloomy
and
had
to
wait
in
line
for
food
things
like
that.
So
I
was
thinking
well.
A
How
do
you
make
sure
that
that
abundance
can
can
happen
everywhere
when
I
first
walk
into
an
american
grocery
store
with
a
hundred
of
each
item
this
this
total
abundance?
I
was
like
wow.
This
is
just
amazing.
How
can
one
country
be
like
this
and
another
be
completely
deprived
yeah?
So
so
so
I
said:
okay,
let's
start
with
the
material
abundance
that
get
can
get
us
all
there
so
that
we
can
focus
on
thriving,
not
just
making
a
living.
A
Now,
as
as
we
develop
the
global
village
construction
set
that
naturally
takes
a
development
process,
a
collaborative
development
process.
So
as
we
develop,
this
tool
set
we're
developing
the
methodology
for
working
collaboratively
openly
in
an
open
source,
modular,
transparent
way,
so
there's
a
whole
product
development
method
that
can
be
created
around
that,
because
a
lot
of
people
right
now
just
simply
can't
find
the
business
models
or
ways
to
develop
in
a
collaborative
way.
So
it's
the
platform
of
how
do
you
work
openly
to
develop
things
that
can
be
applied
to
anything
yeah.
B
A
Yeah
yeah,
so
you
need
to
have
things
like
a
tractor,
an
engine
we
get
into
the
full
fabrication
thing.
We
start
with
3d
printers,
which
can
be
used
to
build
torch
tables
where
the
torch
tables
can
now
cut
steel
for
your
tractor,
so
there's
whole
product
ecologies
around
that,
and
how
do
you
try
to
do
that
in
the
most
efficient
way,
using
the
minimal
set,
in
fact
to
the
point
that
you
can
fit
all
this
in
a
40-foot
shipping
container
and
start
a
civilization
from
completely
raw
land?
A
B
A
B
And
those
you
basically
just
share
out
the
3d
models,
the
cad
files,
all
of
those
things
are,
are
open,
source
and
available
to
folks
yep.
A
Download
freecad,
we
also
have
osc
linux,
our
dedicated
distribution.
You
can
download
the
blueprints
for
for
us
over
the
last.
Since
the
last
three
years,
we've
been
using
freecad
the
open
source
cad
design
software,
since
that
got
really
good
enough
to
do
anything.
That's
so
we
do
everything
in
freecad,
so
you
can
also
have
anybody
collaborate
on
this.
Nobody,
no
paywall
for
this
tool.
A
B
Farm
and
spend
time
building
together,
prototyping
together,
can
you
just.
A
Yeah
actually
there's
different
ways.
We
definitely
have
a
lot
of
on-site
activities,
but
what
we
found
is
that
initially
I
was
here
myself
right
and
it's
like
labor
was
definitely
a
big
thing,
so
we're
thinking
about
how
do
you
do
this
really
efficiently?
Well,
you
saw
me
in
my
ted
talk.
I
said
built
a
tractor
in
six
days.
A
A
We
still
have
the
various
workshops
where
we
teach
people
how
to
do
that,
and
actually
the
latest
addition
to
our
our
set
of
how
we,
how
we
try
to
transfer
this
knowledge
to
others
is
actually
a
one-year
a
mentorship
immersion
program
where
we
teach
you
all
the
skills
we
know.
So
you
can
start
a
chapter
of
our
work
in
a
different
location,
so
we're
just
actually
starting
our
first
one
ever
in
south
africa,
with
a
great
candidate
who's
going
to
spend
the
next
actually
next,
two
years
at
50
time,
learning
all
the
skills
to
replicate.
A
So
they
could
run
the
workshops
there.
They
could
build
the
3d
printers
from
scratch
and
torch
tables
and
tractors
and
everything
and,
interestingly
well
just
let
me
just
finish
that
that
story,
the
guy
there
he's
there
it's
like
all
mining
country
where
they
mine
chromium.
So
he
actually
wants
to
build
the
heavy
machines
and
tractors
so
for
a
mining
operation
which
actually
has
done
before
with
limited
success,
because
he
learned
the
hard
way
that
you
need
these
heavy
machines
that
you
don't
have
access
to
and
cost
a
lot
and
break
down
so
perfect
match.
A
Not
right
now,
of
course,
with
colvid,
but
yes,
he
will
for
all
the
on-site
events
once
they
start
going.
So
part
of
the
program
is
that
you
get
get
to
come
to
all
the
other
workshops
and
immersion
trainings
that
we
have
but
right
for
right
now,
it's
gonna
have
to
be
remote
and
we
can
do
all
the
cad
work
he
can
source
the
like,
for
example,
he's
building
the
printer
he's
sourcing.
We
already
figured
out.
A
He
can
source
all
the
parts
in
south
africa
so
that
he
can
do
that
and
bootstrap
from
there
and
eventually,
of
course,
get
to
the
bootstrapping
aspect,
where
some
of
the
more
advanced
tools
are
induction
furnaces
and
hot
metal
rolling.
So
if
you
have
a
waste
stream
of
metal,
you
can
make
your
own
virgin
steel.
B
A
Absolutely
that's
definitely
on
the
plan,
like
till
2028,
where
that's
our
deadline
for
finishing
all
the
different
tools
to
all
the
50
machines.
So
you
can,
you
can
start
a
ready
micro,
factory
or
even
a
whole
community
from
scratch
just
like
that,
but
as
far
as
the
of
the
replication
of
different
branch
facilities-
yes,
we
call
that
the
osce
camp,
we
call
the
osce
campus.
A
So
it's
a
facility
that
has
education,
you
have
living,
you
have
production,
you
have
agriculture,
so
like
a
real
settlement
like
a
kind
of
like
a
mix
of
a
university,
an
eco-industrial
park,
a
real
cookie-cutter
development.
You
know
different
aspects
and
a
farm
and
all
of
that
put
those
into
one
but
focus
around
the
education
part.
So
there
we
educate
people
to
work
very
explicitly
on
solving
pressing
world
issues
and
we
distribute
these
facilities
all
over
the
world.
I'm
I'm
seeing
large
numbers
of
these.
A
A
Can
we
get
past
the
kinds
of
pickles
we're
seeing
right
now
with
covid
with
the
supply
chains
and
yeah,
all
of
that
and
re-skill
people,
and
and
close
the
divide
between
the
republicans
and
liberals
and
all
that
get
people
productive
and
focusing
on
solutions
to
pressing
world
issues
rather
than
self-interest?
B
You
mentioned
you
mentioned
education
and
before
we
actually
started
kind
of
the
recording
we
were
just
chatting,
and
so
I
know
that
one
of
your
interests
is
in
in
trying
to
develop
this
for
younger
people
as.
A
Right
now
we
are,
we
are
running
open
source
micro
factory
steam
cams.
We
learn
a
lot
of
very
practical
skills
and
we're
trying
to
do
it
in
a
way.
That's
really
generative,
as
in
like
this
is
not
just
a
steam
camp
where
you
you
do
this
for
education,
but
things
that
can
serve
education
but
are
scalable
and
modular
to
the
point.
They
can
build
them
up
for
real
industrial
productivity.
A
So
we
start
the
micro
factory
steep
we're
actually
running
one
next
month,
which
we're
actually
publishing
this
weekend
or
tomorrow,
but
you're
going
to
build
your
own
3d
printer
from
scratch,
build
your
own
micro
arduino,
like
microcontroller
from
scratch,
build
a
3d
printed.
Electric
motor
learn,
keycap,
learn
collaborative
design
using
freecad,
so
basically
really
practical,
applied
skills
that
you
can
design
the
things
then
print
them
and
so
forth.
A
Absolutely
absolutely
so,
for
example,
the
part
of
the
motivation
behind
the
microcontroller
is
okay.
Can
we
take
that
micro
controller
developed
to
the
point
where
we're
using
that
one
in
our
3d
printers
or
the
3d
printer
produces
larger?
We
call
this
the
universal
axis
cnc
system.
Basically,
precision
controlled
axes,
they're
controlled
by
the
arduinos,
but
you
can
print
the
3d
printed
components
of
that
with
the
3d
printer.
So
you
can
build
a
much
larger
torch
table.
That's
like
five
by
ten
feet,
so
bootstrapping,
literally
from
the
smallest
machines
to
the
larger
ones.
A
A
Absolutely
absolutely
you
got
to
be
able
to
go
down
to
the
land
like,
in
fact,
our
promise
is
that,
with
the
whole
global
village
construction
set,
you
can
literally
take
the
the
rocks,
sunlight
plants,
soil,
water
and
make
metals
your
life
stuff
of
modern
civilization.
Your
furniture,
your
plastic,
your
everything
that
you
use
the
most
advanced
like
in
the
set
itself.
We
actually
have
aluminum
extraction
from
clay
now.
Clay
aluminosilicate
is
so
aluminum
is
one
of
the
most
abundant
elements.
It's
like
number,
four,
I
think
is
it
an
earth's
crust,
but
how
about?
A
If
you
can
smell
that
from
clay,
so
you
can
not
only
make
bricks
from
your
compressed
earth
block
press,
but
also
aluminum.
If
you
have
some
electricity,
yes,
you
can
do
that.
So
this
is
the
radical
step
of
saying:
okay,
literally
from
the
dirt
and
twigs
under
your
feet,
you
can
bootstrap
modern
civilization.
Our
experiment
is
indeed
that
like
take
any
parcel
like
or
30
acres
here
and
show
that
you
can
do
that
and
have
a
completely
regenerative
system
that
makes
it
go.
B
A
We
have,
we
have
a
volunteer,
there's
that's
a
huge
challenge.
Right
now
we
have
volunteers.
We
have
about
four
full-time
equivalent
of
all
the
different
people
that
are
working
on
a
project
in
little
bits,
I'm
on
this
full
time,
but
that's
one
part
that
we're
really
trying
to
develop
right.
Now.
It's
really
about
jobs
like
one
of
the
one
of
the
things
we
found
out
is
the
high
turnover
you
you
have
to
get
to
the
point
where
you're
developing
the
products
and
revenue
streams
from
that.
A
But
as
far
as
you
know,
I
kind
of
I
must
say
like
building
a
team
about
last
year,
I
came
through
a
realization.
It's
like
wow.
I
have
a
mentor,
a
really
good
mentor.
I
talked
to
about
this
and-
and
he
said
collaborative
design-
well
where's,
your
team,
because
I
mentioned
to
them:
it's
like
okay.
Well,
you
know
people
just
come
and
go
and
open
source.
A
It's
like
you
got
these
wild
cats
that
you're
hurting
so,
but
then
it
made
me
think
and-
and
I
really
started
to
look
deeper,
how
do
we
get
to
these
much
larger
collaborative
events
and
endeavors
that
result
in
real
products?
Not
just
the
fact?
Oh
yeah,
you
prototype
it,
and
it's
like.
I
think
you
have
to
recognize
it.
It's
not
like
one,
two
or
three
products.
It's
like
a
dozen
or
a
hundred
prototypes.
A
You
have
to
go
through
to
make
something
really
good
and
that
the
open
hardware
world
has
a
real
issue
with
that
and
also
a
lot
of
people
who
do
get
products
they
end
up,
closing
them
up
or
otherwise,
making
them
inaccessible.
So
that's
a
real
challenge,
so
so
right
now
we're
thinking
about
actually
we're
working
on
that
with
a
mind
shift.
I
basically
said
no,
I
don't
have
to
do
that.
It's
myself!
No,
it's
not
at
all
think
hard
about
how
we
involve
others
to
do
this.
A
So
through
this
mental
shift,
the
latest
thing
we're
gonna.
Try
is
basically
a
three-day
somewhat
like
a
hackathon,
but
where
we
take
the
existing
cd
ecohome
that
we
have
and
get
like
our
goal.
Right
now
is
2
000
people
three
day
weekend
like
an
extreme
enterprise
event.
We
actually
call
that
extreme
enterprise,
where
we
document
everything
that's
needed
to
start
a
business,
producing
these
houses
so
go
through
even
like
making
the
website
doing
all
the
legal
stuff
like.
How
do
you
get
the
code?
A
You
know
the
code,
let's
say:
inspection
schedule,
all
the
bills
and
materials
and
business
plans,
and
all
that
so
2
000
people.
Imagine
we
could
do
that,
but
but
definitely
the
house
is
something
that
a
lot
of
people
like
so
we're
promising,
and
we
think
we
can
do
this
technologically,
not
an
issue.
Fifty
thousand
dollars
for
a
thousand
square
foot
house
that
you
and
a
friend
could
build
in
one
week,
there's
a
there's,
a
there's,
a
catch.
A
You
have
to
build
the
so
we
build,
as
I
mentioned,
using
the
the
modular
building
technique
yeah.
So
the
house
that
I
live
in
right
here,
like
you,
don't
see
this
because
the
walls
are
covered,
but
we
build
it
by
building
four
by
eight
modules
that
are
then
rapidly
assembled
into
the
finished
house.
A
That's
why
we
can
do
that
in
five
days
with
50
people,
but
we
built
all
the
four
by
eight
panels
in
the
shop
and
then
brought
them
up
here
and
then
you've
got
some
other
elements
like
the
roof
and
floor
and
stuff,
but
with
the
house
project,
we're
saying
that
okay,
every
weekend
spend
like
four
hours
building
a
couple
modules.
A
Yeah
get
a
friend
you.
You
have
to
actually
build
four
modules
per
weekend,
which
is
each
module
takes
like
two
hours:
okay,
but
if
you
can
afford
eight
hours
single
or
you
know
four
hours,
two
people
for
like
two
hours
with
four
people,
then
you
can
do
this.
You
stash
all
your
modules
and
then
get
your
friend
for
one
week
and
you
just
build
it
out.
A
So
that's
the
idea
and
we're
using
heal.
I
don't
know
if
you
know
anything
about
construction,
but
helical
pure
foundation
is
a
very
efficient
way
to
get
past.
The
troubles
of
of
concrete
foundations,
and
actually
these
helical
piers
these
piles
that
you
screw
into
the
ground
that
serve
as
the
foundation.
It's
like
one
of
the
most
advanced
things
you
can
do.
It
only
came
out
in
like
about
90s
or
90s.
First,
they
started
being
used
in
residential
construction
in
a
heavy
scale
like
right
now,
they're
getting
more
and
more
popular
because
of
their
advantages.
A
No,
no,
this
is
piles,
they
go.
It's
like
seven
ten
feet,
fourteen
even
more
sometimes,
but
you
screw
them
in
with
an
auger
and
they
each
of
them
holds
like
20
000
pounds.
You
know,
and
you
have
enough
of
them
for
a
house
but
yeah
yeah,
that's
exactly
what
we're
planning
so
our
house,
the
thousand
square
footer,
would
be
27
of
these
and
that's
a
job
that
a
contractor
can
do
in
a
day.
So
we
hired
that
out
5k
and
go
from
there.
B
That's
awesome
so
you're
inviting
people
this
extreme
event
the.
What
would
you
call
it
extreme
yeah?
It's
called
extreme
enterprise
enterprise.
A
Covet
it's
still
the
it's
going
to
be
a
three-day
remote
thing,
we're
planning
that
we're
assuming
that
august
2021!
That's
when
it's
going
to
happen.
It's
still
we're
going
to
be
locked
down
in
some
way,
probably
so,
but
we
are
gonna
offer
after
that,
a
one
week,
immersion
where
we
build
that
out
in
completion
and
the
people
who
sign
up
for
this
program,
they
they
get
first
in
line
for
their
house
for
50k
total.
A
We
got
a
service
fee
out
of
that
even
and
then
they
get
training
like
it's
a
seven
or
eight
day
immersion,
where
you
build
every
single
type
of
module
that
goes
into
this
house,
and
then
you
can
actually
we're
gonna
run
this
for
like
five
months
straight,
like
twice
a
month,
so
people
can
come
back
if
they
feel
they
didn't
learn
it.
They
can
come
back,
but
we're
trying
to
say,
okay,
give
people
all
the
support,
all
the
resources
and
solve
the
housing
problem.
Let's
do
that.
B
A
C
B
Well
now,
because
you,
I
know
that
you
have
to
be
paying
attention
to
to
things
like
this,
do
you
see
globally,
like
I
obviously
since
the
90s
like,
I
think
I
became
aware
of
of
open
source
ideas,
probably
in
a
similar
way
as
you
through
linux,
and
these
open
source
software
kinds
of
of
things,
do
you
see
as
you're
getting
them
deeper
and
deeper
in
this?
Do
you
feel
like
the
the
open
source
thing?
B
Generally
speaking,
is,
I
feel
like
there's
always
that
tension,
but
do
you
feel
like
the
open
source
movement
has
is
growing
momentum
over
time?
I
guess
is
it?
Does
that
make
sense
to
you?
It
does.
A
No,
it's
terrible
it's
in
the
dark
ages.
Unfortunately
there
were
some
events
like
I
would
say:
2012
2011
may
have
been
the
heyday
of
of
open
source
where
there's
an
open
source
project
around
every
corner,
about
2012
or
so
there
were
some
events
at
2012
or
2013.,
the
makerbot
enclosure.
You
know
about
that.
A
The
enclosure
of
makerbot
kind
of
gave
the
whole
world
the
message,
including
the
vcs
in
silicon
valley,
that
once
you
get
serious,
you
gotta
go
proprietary
yeah.
So
right
now
we
are
in
the
dark
ages.
Some
open
source
companies
have
shut
down
recently
or
sold
out
prusa
3d
printers
is
the
biggest
3d
printer
company
in
the
world
right
now
in
terms
of
numbers
of
printers.
So
that's
still
good.
A
I
don't
think
they're
open
source
centric
like
in
that
sense
of
that
word,
they're
just
selling
printers,
I
would
say,
but
to
to
be.
You
know
to
critique
that
issue.
There's
not
a
great
example
where
you
see
open
source
collaborative
development
resulting
in
real
business
cases
like
take
lulzbot,
take
prusa,
take
ultimaker.
A
Well,
yes,
but
they're
not
going
that
next
step,
which
is
how
do
you
get
a
lot
of
entrepreneurs
doing
the
same
thing?
If
it's
an
open,
open
technology,
why
do
not
we
make
the
the
business
model
also
open?
A
So
that's
exactly
what
we're
doing
we're,
calling
that
distributive
enterprise,
we're
saying
we
will
teach
you
to
build
our
printers
go
into
business,
make
them
enough
in
south
africa
for
our
guy
everywhere
around
the
world,
so
that
you
can
completely
distribute
the
wealth
so
so
lulzbot,
ultimaker
and
prusa
are
still
they're
still
actually
centralized
operations,
so
they're
they're
not
delivering
that
distribution
of
economic
power.
That's
the
promise
of
the
I,
in
my
view,
the
the
unreached
promise
of
open
source
hardware.
That
has
not
happened,
and
people
are
not
aware.
That's
that's!
Why
we're
saying
that?
A
Okay,
let's
do
this
enterprise
event,
the
extreme
enterprise
thing
with
the
house
and
show
we're
taking
this
open
blueprint
and
we're
productizing
it,
and
we
get
enough
people
to
succeed
at
that
development
process,
because
the
problem
we're
solving
for
and
really
when.
I
think
about
the
open
source
hardware
thing
for
people
showing
up
so
that
enough
people
show
up
so
that
completion
actually
happens,
that
completion
step
is
really
elusive.
I
mentioned
it
takes
a
lot
of
effort
to
make
it
happen.
If
you
look
at
the
metaphor
of
software,
I
think
it's
actually
quite
valid.
A
Think
about
how
many
bugs
people
go
through
before
a
piece
of
code
is
released.
Well,
actually,
the
I
think
from
my
experience.
The
same
metaphor
applies
to
hardware.
You
can
improve
something,
but
you
can
keep
improving.
Keep
streamlining
keep
streamlining
the
production
engineering
like
I
thought
I
was
done
with
the
printer.
Now
we
made
it
even
simpler.
We
made
this
change
and
this
other
change,
and
these
are
not
trivial
changes.
I
think
altogether.
They
make
them
towards
the
point
where
you
have
a
superior
product.
It's
just
really
good,
but
you
have
to
go
through
that.
B
A
A
Exactly-
and
I
think
very
few-
I'm
glad
you
you
relate
to
this
this
issue.
I
think
very
few
people
understand
that
point.
The
idea
that
okay
there's
an
open
technology,
but
what,
if
we
tweak
that
to
that
next
phase?
Is
there
even
a
next
phase?
Yes,
there
is
it's
called
economic
distribution
solving
the
pro
the
issue,
the
of
wealth
disparity
that
has
not
been
solved
since
the
1300s.
A
Since
double
book,
double
entry
accounting
has
been
invented.
B
This
is
incredible,
so
I
I
want
to
be
aware
of
your
time
and
and
not
not
keep
you
over
overly
long,
but
this
is
fascinating,
so
could
could
you
maybe
give
us
give
us
your
like
next
10
years?
So
you
said,
2028
is
the
finish
of
the
50
products,
the
your
your
giant
lego
set.
What
does
the
next
10
years
look
like
in
terms
of
where
you're
heading
like
what
would
you
like
to
see,
but
where
do
you
think
that
that
you're,
more
realistically
going.
A
Yeah,
I
mean
definitely
the
2028
cutoff
on
the
entire
set
and
things
going
well,
I
mean
our
budgets,
I
mean
we've
had
a
basically
a
shoestring
budget,
the
whole
time,
but
I
think
with
a
house
project
next
year,
we're
aiming
for
the
millions
per
year
level
next
year.
If
we
achieve
that.
That
would
be
amazing.
I
think
in
my
rough
estimate
it
will
take
like
10
million
to
finish
the
entire
set,
we're
only
like
1.5
million
over
the
last
decade.
A
A
We
have
completed
the
set
that
we
actually
start
massive
replication
of
the
of
the
work
to
the
point
of
creating
education
facilities
that
have
a
robust
business
model
with
them
and
and
at
that
same
time,
within
the
next
10
years,
micro
factory
in
thousands
of
cities,
a
micro
factory
that,
where
you're
producing
cars,
you're
producing
cell
phones,
you're,
producing
cnc
machines,
energy
equipment
and
all
that,
like
a
small
facility
and
every
basically
think
about
like
walmart,
except
you
actually
have
production
there
and
you
can
buy
either
the
product
or
the
production
of
that
product.
A
If
you
want
to
become
an
entrepreneur,
so
so
next
year
like
if
the
housing
project
works,
we
could
we'd
like
to
say
we
have
dented
the
housing
issue,
but
the
real
frontier
is
to
see
if
that
works,
and
if
that
method
of
of
the
large
swarm
development
really
works,
I
think
it
can
by
how
much
we've
learned
about
modular
design
and
basically
the
modularity
just
like
linux
is
broken
down
into
many
many
things.
Many
little
modules.
A
Probably
because
software
I
mean
you
still
get
the
the
conglomerates
in
software
like
facebook
or
amazon
yeah
for
hardware,
we're
actually
hoping
for
much
higher
level
of
distribution
so
that,
if
you
can
succeed
in
the
micro
factory,
it's
not
going
to
be
the
amazon
micro
factory.
It's
going
to
be
an
a
personal
micro
factory,
run
by
many
many
agents
through
the
distributive
enterprise
model.
I
do
think
that
the
future
of
amazon
will
also
be
on-demand
production.
Clearly
I
mean
technology
is
getting
better.
A
A
That's
going
to
be
the
norm,
I
mean
we
can
go
to
the
stars.
We
can
do
this,
so
that's
that's
what
I
envisioned
and-
and
when
I
think
about
this,
the
the
mission
is
collaborative
design
for
a
transparent
and
inclusive
economy
of
abundance.
Our
goal
is
to
shift
the
economic
paradigm.
So,
as
I,
as
I
mentioned,
the
patents,
the
patent
thing,
it
just
goes
out
of
style
like
what
for
why?
Why
slow
down
innovation,
when
you
can
unleash
it?
So
right
now,
I
believe
we're
in
a
stone
age
of
innovation.
A
If
we
really
want
to
solve
problems,
we
got
to
learn
to
collaborate
like
okay.
Just
to
give
you
an
example.
So
next
year
we're
saying
we're
gonna
solve
the
housing
issue.
Okay,
two
years
from
now
we're
gonna
solve
the
energy
issue.
That's
how
we
got
to
think
yeah
and,
for
example,
just
with
solar
hydrogen
running
in
internal
combustion
engines.
I
think
you
can
solve
that
issue
like,
for
example,
with
the
we're
on
off
grid
pv
here,
but
we've
got
a
system.
A
That's
got
one
to
two
cents
per
kilowatt
hour:
energy
production
cost,
which,
if
you
do
the
math,
translates
to
66
cents
per
kilogram.
Equivalent
hydrogen
production
from
electrolysis
well
put
that
two
into
together
and
a
compressor
and
you've
got
fuel,
that's
less
than
a
dollar
a
gallon,
because
one
one
kilogram
of
hydrogen
is
a
gallon
of
gasoline.
A
What
kind
of
stuff
is
possible
today
in
internal
combustion
engines,
you
don't
even
need
fuel
cells
yeah
so
that
we
have
to
think
like
that.
That's
what
I
just
said
is
I
I
don't
think,
there's
any
technical
challenge
to
that.
It's
just
a
challenge
of
people's
consciousness,
of
whether
that's
possible
and
of
course
your
companies
are
not
going
to
do
that
today.
A
That
would
disrupt
the
world
order,
but
I
think
that's
that's
how
we
got
to
think
and
we
gotta
say:
okay,
next
year's
extreme
enterprise
challenge
we're
gonna,
do
the
open
source,
hydrogen
car
or
whatever
stuff
like
that.
So
I
I'm
envisioned
these
kinds
of
things
happening
as
the
the
the
new
norm.
We're
gonna
say:
we've
got
problems,
let's
solve
them,
let's
just
collaborate,
but
it
takes
it.
Takes
that
mind.
So
that's
the
hard
thing.
There's
not
gonna
be
a
free
lunch
here.
B
Martin,
that's
that's
incredible.
This
has
been.
This
has
been
a
fascinating
conversation.
I
thank
you
so
much
for
your
time
and
if
people
want
to
get
involved
like
if
people
listen
to
the
podcast
and
and
they
want
to
they,
they
get
lit
up.
How
can
they
find
out
more
information
and
get
in
contact,
and
things
like
that.
A
A
If
you
really
want
to
go
the
deep,
the
deep
end
and
get
we're
doing
the,
as
I
mentioned
the
one
year
fellowship
the
immersion
immersion
training.
So
if
you
want
to
do
this,
we
want
to
teach
you
all
the
business
know-how.
All
the
technology
know
how
so
this
is
for
real.
This
is
about
really
distributing
economic
power
to
everybody,
and
so,
if
you
want
to
sign
up
for
that
email.
B
B
That's
great
I'll
wrap
it
up
there
and
I'll
edit
everything
back
together.
I'll
share
my
recording
with
you.
If
you
don't
mind,
sharing
yours,
I'm
a
little
worried
about
my
computer,
I'm
using
my
really
old
macbook.
It's
been
a
great
workhorse
for
me,
but
it
is
yeah.
A
I'll
post
this
to
youtube,
so
you
can
just
download
it
readily
after
this
yeah.
No
that's
you
asked
some
good
questions,
you're
that
was
quite
quite
useful,
uh-huh
yeah,
so
I
was
able
to
share
some
of
the
the
latest
stuff
but
yeah
it's
about
like
that
kind
of
a
process.
That's
that's
what
we're
trying
to
say
like
okay,
take
all
the
classrooms
right,
so
we
call
that
the
open
source,
ecology
classroom
where
you're
simply
saying
hey:
let's
not
just
do
this
exercise
or
this
or
that
or
first
robotics,
we're
all
competing.
B
A
So
for
a
practical
program,
I'd
invite
you
to
do
so
for
the
the
schools
like
at
the
university
level,
we're
actually
gonna.
This
is
after
the
house
project,
but
we're
going
to
go
for
the
hydrogen
car
thing:
the
solar
hydrogen
car
yeah
for
the
lower
schools.
What
we
want
to
do
is
the
3d
printing
recycling
of
plastic
so
that
every
cafeteria
starts
selling
its
own
3d
printing
filament
made
from
the
trash.
A
But
you
want
to
get
involved.
I
mean
we
have
we've
done
filament
makers
and
shredders
right
now.
We
are
actually
doing
this
10
000
fold
gear
down
using
3d
printed
belts,
so
it's
super
low
cost
just
using
a
100
watt
motor.
I
don't
know
if
you
can
relate
to
that,
but
that's
one
human
power,
100
watts
is
one
human
power,
so
a
tiny
motor
for
five
bucks.
You
can
actually
make
a
heavy
duty
shredder
if
you,
if
you
gear
that
down
yeah
it'll.
A
Be
slow
but
I
mean
just
leave
it
all
overnight,
put
stuff
in
the
hopper
yeah
and
it
just
chews
it
up.
I
mean
we're
talking
about,
I
think
200.
I
forget
the
exact
units
200
kilogram
meters,
like
ridiculous,
like
strength
of
almost
pretty
much
like
a
hydraulic
motor
strength
yeah
after
you
gear
it
down
that
many
times
but
and
it's
3d
printed.
So,
like
I
prototyped
this
you'll
see
this
in
an
announcement
I'll,
send
you
the
announcement
for
the
event
yeah.
A
It
would
be
great
if
you
can
pass
it
and
get
some
people
to
sign
up,
but
we'll
be
playing
with
that
at
least
somewhat
through
the
steam
camp.
So
you
can
do
that,
but.
A
Done
that
it's
tp
youth,
thermoplastic,
urethane,
printed
belts,
very
amazing,
like
you-
can
do
these
amazing
gear
downs
at
a
very
low
cost.
B
A
B
A
How
are
you
doing
well,
do
you
mind
if
I
record
this
also
just
for
my
notes,
not
at
all.