Open Source Ecology OSE Apprenticeship, 3 Jul 2021

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From YouTube: Day 3 - Summary and Quick CAD of High Temperature Print Chamber

Description

Cad available at https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/High_Temperature_Heated_Enclosure

See notes from everyone at https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/120_Design_Lessons_-_Day_3

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A

All right, so, where are we maybe share your screens uh all of us and just go through the.

A

Screens of people who are still working on this at this hour, um can you do that.

A

Because I've got some product, I've got a little cad file. Yeah I saw you, I saw you working through.

B

So basically, I went through and watched the uh the first half about about like an hour.

B

And a half I think that was still outside just listening and going through and kind.

B

Of itemizing things and trying to get the total dollar amount and looking at comparable printers.

B

You know looking at the numbers that are the standards for what materials we can use and.

B

Noting those as well so all that's in here. What's like the main conclusion like: what's the.

A

Price points you found so built build chamber you estimated at 5k uh earlier yeah treadmill.

B

Motor for 50 dollars, you need uh seven ish stepper motors yeah for fifty dollars of motor uh frame.

B

With rebar truss for 240 for a 10 foot frame, the build plate is going to need to be or not.

B

With the um heat shields- and you need to be twice as large for that- that's just one thing to know.

B

um So that price point puts us, I would say it's, I would say less than 10k, like you still need.

B

The controller and the metal hot end- and um you know maybe a few other things, but that costs.

B

Probably negative compared to the rest under 10k, probably around six or seven, the mini factory.

B

Ultra, which is linked in here, is 54k. Where do we find this file paste it? Because it's.

A

Not on your log, it's not I haven't seen it is it. It should be. uh If it's.

B

Yeah, it should be the topic initial assessment. If you have your ex challenge the research, okay, yeah.

A

Yeah so background research, um the question is: what's the? What kind of price are we finding for.

A

The competition like anything so small size or large size, so that was the thing the mini.

B

Factory ultra is 54k. um I put the the specs of it 450 400 adc for the extruder temperature 250c.

B

For the build plate and 250 for the heated build chamber and yeah 250 okay, so you figure we may.

B

Be able to get down, you may actually be able to get 10x if we were able to optimize some of it.

B

That's that was one of the main conclusions. um What's the size except you know many factory ultra.

B

Small, it's not it's. You know it's not going to be the eight foot, four foot by four yeah.

A

We have to do, we do have to consider, and if it's 300 millimeters that's about.

A

What is that 12 inches by 7, or so so, if they've got 12 by 7 inches or so we're about.

A

Eight times, let's see what is what is this size there? Oh you're, just talking about.

B

The effective size yeah the difference, yeah, um okay, so they've got like 330 by.

A

Yeah, so that's tiny! So for us our volume, I mean that's about half a foot by a foot. You.

A

Know like a little bit of volume, we factor that in on the performance benefit side right, so that.

B

Would increase the cost around lower the ratio you're pretty much paying for the volume like.

A

Literally, it is so if we've got four by four feet,.

A

By eight feet, you're talking a factor of eight vertical you're talking about a factor of about.

A

10 by um maybe four six six times, eight it's about 50 50 times smaller, so you have to multiply the.

A

50 by 50 to get 2.5 million yeah and then not counting the actual cost difference which you.

B

Could have like if you're just looking at strictly cost yeah, it is almost 10x anyway yeah, but the.

B

Performance of it and the feature yeah times, 50. yeah, but that's a good price point that man that's.

A

Pretty pretty expensive for tiny, that was the tiny build chamber that was one of the cheaper ones. 50K.

B

I had another one on there that was 110k, but that was the higher inspects like 500 celsius for.

B

Extruder nozzle, temperature and 400 for built like it was the highest at 110k, but still smaller, yeah.

A

Okay yeah, so I mean that gets you the idea I mean these things are rather expensive.

C

And which means that no way for any human having access to this.

A

Besides people who can really afford it so um and that's and that kind of proves our point.

A

That these things are very expensive and we do have a significant value proposition. You can.

A

Probably search around possibly find something else, but yeah keep going, keep going and find.

A

Find more because we want to basically say the definitive case, the lowest price point comparison.

A

Is such and such, and that in itself is going to be a lot of compelling arguments for we're not just.

A

Saying, oh, you know, we've got this awesome chamber that have numbers it's like x times and so forth.

A

Yeah, when you say the number, then people are just going to like like wait a minute. How and then you.

B

Go and explain: yeah because yeah yeah, we, you know we can say we are signing. We have.

A

A significantly larger build volume and our price point is still lower, and then they ask us really.

A

Yes, in fact, if they had what we had in terms of size, they would cost 2.5 million dollars.

A

So yeah, um that's pretty good that that should kind of scare us it's like that.

A

That might mean that um why is this so hard? Well, we're gonna find out, and I.

A

I will say we have to address each issue by each.

A

Like it might seem the huge numbers like if it's that that high, you might start assuming wow, that.

A

Must be really hard and I'll tell you we'll find other ones. We will it's not going to be that hard.

A

So that's pretty crazy that the whole incentive reward can be less than the cost. Oh yeah, that's.

A

That's a huge value proposition like we're, saying the value proposition invest your time into this.

A

Yeah, we have to speak like that, invest your time in it because we're literally.

A

Open sourcing like a trillion dollars worth of value, it's insane so yeah yeah see this one on.

B

Here that I'm looking at there's there's a list, it's it's the smallest by quite a bit.

B

And it the extruder temperature is high at 540 c, but the bed and chamber temperatures are.

B

Like around the minimum for pretty high end plastics, that's 29. 000, though.

B

But then you have even more of a performance yeah, it's still small, multiple small, even smaller,.

B

Yeah have more of a performance yeah. It's a cost ratio, for that thing is like eight by six inches.

A

Or so something like that yeah, so tiny, tiny things wow, but look at those price points. It's insane.

A

Okay and the strata system looks like the fortis okay, so that's like the big one. Oh, my goodness,.

B

It almost scares me because they're they're saying 140, 000 and they're only half a meter.

A

Oh, my goodness, we're gonna change the world.

C

Holy cow, oh yeah, oh wow,.

A

Man, okay, so that's like holy cow. These things are expensive and those things are tiny. So.

A

Okay, um yeah, so anything else, um let's keep looking at it. So basically business case study on.

B

These on these printers trying to see where we can optimize that, seeing what the competitor is and.

B

I I made notes about the plastic in general, like with you know, doing a little bit of reading.

B

Analysis into the materials part of it, so certain plastics can't go in with other plastics and.

B

Maybe there would be a way to engineer the plastic beforehand.

B

Or after maybe it's it's melted, I'm not sure yeah, it's blends. You can blend certain things together.

A

To change some of their properties, there's additives, but you know we don't want to mess.

A

Too much with that, if we've got what we've got off the street, I mean we'll take it okay, let's do that.

A

And I'll just focus on the business yeah yeah yeah. No, once we get to the the performance just.

A

The physical performance characteristics and yeah we'll be able to do pretty much anything. So I I.

A

Think the main challenge is absolutely getting to that: yeah. Okay! So who wants to go next? Do anyone.

C

Really, you have to select the screen, click on the screen that you want to share and then click share.

C

A

From a long day,.

D

I think it's just an issue to make the problem might.

E

A

Well tell us about it: what do you got uh your links should.

A

Get us to there so do you have the links.

A

Ken where's, your slide, do you have a slide here? Yeah yeah? Maybe maybe it's because you.

D

Joined twice, you should probably uh exit one of them, because maybe you can only share online.

D

D

Okay, my mic's not working, but okay. Basically, I was doing research on.

D

What tools we could use for collaboration and came came to the conclusion that, like the nav framework.

D

Is a really good way to approach building uh collaboration tools for open source hardware.

D

What's the framework it's called map- and it's basically built by these guys in.

D

Europe who use it for uh creative coding in like multi-screen or like embedded devices.

D

So it has a pretty good like I was. I was uh working on uh going through the documentation and.

D

Learning how to use it, um the like the main thing it could probably do is um be able to integrate.

D

Like a lot of these different processes like slides and.

D

Video and images and audio and 3d models into a single application.

D

Just so, you can find everything faster and interact with it collaboratively.

D

um Besides that, I was exploring like blender and uh using a plugin.

D

To import the cad models, and is this under effective collaboration.

D

Yeah, I didn't take any notes about.

D

About the nav framework, yet but I'll code, a little I'll code up a little.

D

Demo for next week or something okay, cool um yeah, I mean, let's.

A

See how we can integrate that if it's easy to integrate and all of that thought about wiki.

A

We also want to make make ways where, when people are contributing, we can track.

A

Obviously, track those contributions, there's ways to track it. If people are tracking on the wiki.

A

Because because you can look at commits just basically user contributions, you can look at.

A

Time logs, you can use uh just work logs. I think worklog is probably a good way to organize what.

A

Well, that's that's an easy way within the wiki. There may be other ways to do it.

A

But yeah thinking about how we track everybody and make that more or less automate. Because if there's.

A

A large number of people participating you're going to need to track that you can't track that.

D

Manually, you could run code through uh uh meet the media wiki. He has something called hooks yeah. So.

C

You can run code when, like a user, joins to create like a work log automatically or stuff like that,.

A

uh What's what's it called within wikipedia it's just the it's just like the media wiki, which is.

D

What uh oh, the osc wiki yeah like they have this ways to run code and do all sorts of smart things.

E

Okay, the menu wiki site, okay and then go to like extensions.

A

Also, that's basically extensions, adding extensions into the wiki okay like if you could yeah.

B

Just make it out like a project like a small module project management, where you can see.

B

Different things: yeah, oh there's, yeah, there's a lot of potential yeah it's manageable now, but.

B

When, if there's a lot of people, then it's like, oh, I will check this log. Then this log right so all.

A

Of them is the only issue that's in php or what what's the language? um I don't know.

A

Because see the wiki is in php, so that's that's kind of uh yeah php's a little torquey, but okay.

A

Yeah, okay! Well, that sounds good. That would be. That would be interesting. We've never.

A

Never touched that yet so maybe maybe you're the guy. That shows us how to touch it.

A

um Okay, ken, you want to just go ahead, just just let us know where you're at.

C

Because we we do have at least the the document so go ahead.

C

A

So, what's the lowest you found.

A

Yeah commercial products versus that the joshua, it's experimental.

A

So we can't can't necessarily say that, as a price point comparison.

A

um And, what's it do what's the specs on that um the chamber's not heated.

A

Won't do what we need. We got to really look at like 120, plus yeah.

A

Yeah yeah I mean, if you have as low as 90 heated chambers, then you can do.

A

Abs, I believe very reliably like tall things and things, but we have to find it out like.

A

Let's, let's find out what exactly those temperature marks can't just be a heated.

A

Chamber like an unheated chamber, it must have some auxiliary heat that it makes it.

A

uh Pretty high higher than 60 has to be higher than 16 differences.

A

Okay and what's the heat heat chamber, you said 90.

A

Okay uh and I clicked on your dock, I I clicked access. We need to.

A

Those documents aren't open yet.

A

Right: okay, uh it's looking at some price points, so we should organize that, like.

A

If, if joshua's doing that- and you are so maybe collate that collect that into one.

A

What I would suggest there is start a wiki page that says that would go under analysis of industry.

A

Standards, high temperature, printer analysis of industry standards. What what's out there.

A

Within the development spreadsheet, that's the line. Item number.

A

So we should actually see the development spreadsheet for the high temperature printer.

A

The industry standards are item number two, it's right after requirements, so we should definitely.

A

uh Because a lot of the things that we're going to develop are going to be with respect to, of course,.

A

The development template. Yes, okay! um Sorry, sorry: what was the price point on that? One with the 90c.

A

Okay, 5899 yeah. That's that's kind of more reasonable.

E

It's still a lot of money for a small small small thing, yeah.

C

You wanted to show something, so you should take a picture of that. Take a picture.

A

Okay, take it; this is, this, is back of the envelope drawings, take a picture of it and share it with.

A

Everybody so and then put maybe some arrows to it so picture and you can simply go once you have the.

A

Picture on your phone: what do you do from there? You can share it. You can just download it whatever.

A

But in terms of actually, as far as a shared picture, folder for everybody.

A

The best thing to do is just upload it to your own google drive and just put links to it.

A

And then maybe set up a folder for yourself, because otherwise.

A

Yeah there's a lot of people. It's kind of getting individual people's shared folders is a good idea.

A

And then we can, if we really find it valuable, we can just download it too. Otherwise, it's there.

A

And we still have it, you know. Okay, thank you. That's pretty good.

F

All right, I think I fixed it okay, so what I was working on, let's see so supposed to do the script.

F

And um yeah I talked about reaching out to journalists, so I started a list.

F

Just a basic list of some places that I thought would be good.

F

I don't I don't know if you've ever had any correspondence with pbs or npr. Yes, that was.

A

We were on npr once google like npr, osce, stuff, okay, oh there's, actually a page on the on a wiki.

A

Called in the news: okay, oh yeah, so you'll find it. You can find it there I'll paste it in your dock.

A

Or press, it's called press.

F

Just some individuals, also um that was good.

F

uh One guy there's one guy who I don't know if he would be so interested in like.

F

Being a part of it or doing an interview or anything but uh yeah sure is a really.

F

Good source of information um when it comes to lumber this, I posted his twitter handle down here.

F

And that was pretty much all for the media.

F

So then, with the two minute script, this is what I had so far.

F

And then I wanted to get started on a longer video script. So um so far I was thinking to.

A

Explain a little bit about osc. um I think the big thing that we need is this: uh some.

F

More footage, I do feel like it's more engaging to have just people speaking extemporaneously, just.

F

Talking to each other um that's much more engaging than just reading from the script, um and so I.

F

Wanted to, while I'm here capture some footage of our discussions and put that in part of a.

A

That larger video, okay, great for the long, video um and yeah so got into a little bit of.

F

The explaining on the project, but not a whole lot. um The other thing I was doing was uploading. The.

F

Video that I had so here's the videos that I've uploaded to youtube so far. Oh, where is that.

F

It's on my youtube channel right now uh blanket oh yeah,.

F

F

Let's see, how do I do this well copy and paste the link into the chat box? That's all.

A

And then we find your latest videos on your channel when we go to your videos.

A

That's good! That's good um yeah, like all the videos that should go up on the front.

A

Like on the actual day, three 120 design lessons day three page, so we have links to everybody's.

A

Media because I think, there's going to be a lot of media floating around and should have a dedicated.

A

Place you know you can find it like right on the hard page for day three but okay, that's good.

A

Oh yeah, by the way blast these all over the osce workshops. Facebook page, are you on facebook.

A

No, no, no, no facebook yeah if anybody's taking stuff yeah put it on on facebook and share.

A

It or put on the osc workshops, facebook, page uh who's, who, who does have facebook.

A

Yeah lincoln try to link it put on osc workshops too yeah, because there's like.

A

1000 more people there all right, yeah. I just did a this little challenge: design tool, kit.

G

And like marketing guys thing, um herox has like a bunch of guides and every like formatted guides.

G

On their website, so I just kind of went and grabbed those and filled out kind of just.

G

Basic information on what I thought about it so far, but um I think it can get into.

G

Like a big, bigger discussion with everyone's input on, you know what these questions are.

G

Like yeah, basically just questions or pinpoints that they're asking us to like really define.

G

What we're looking for! So it's just um you know it's a couple pages on. What are we expecting.

G

What are we looking for? What qualifies um just basically spending the entire challenge from.

G

They weren't really in depth. They have guides for just about everything.

G

So I just kind of filled that out with um just basic information from what I was.

G

Hearing today what we were talking about and then it's a little marking guide for.

G

The challenge page on hero x, social media accounts, twitter, youtube, facebook, um instagram.

G

Seo maybe and um heavy things that can respond and kill you. What are we so with this design toolkit.

A

These are just assets.

A

Free and accessible so free cash. So do you need help on 3d cad anyone getting more information.

A

There you want to continue working on it. Maybe the thing to do would be make make believe you're.

A

Posting a live challenge just started back then after this that's okay. Now we've got um at low.

E

Cost so let me get some more ideas: here's what the text would actually look like on the challenge.

A

Itself important to get focused on working back from the product, which is right now that product.

A

We're doing like in the background and technology and things like that that supports it.

D

Like that, for us to do that, what we're saying to the public we're, including large numbers.

E

Right through large numbers of volunteers that you know may be recruited for small.

A

That's just how we roll here and then, of course, this controversy. Well, how do you make money well.

A

There's many different ways to make money, but the business model has to reflect the open source.

A

Nature of the product, so example, three of um low cost low cost tools like, for example, 3d, printer.

A

You can build yourself for 300 dollars in parts and then you can prototype so complex objects.

A

So that technology used to be ten thousand now it's 300, so actually a lot of people can even.

A

If they're on our team, they don't have too much money. Well, maybe they can save up 300 bucks to get.

A

It's getting locked up.

A

I'm I'm freezing here so go to my page on a working dock, I'm crashing or something and so.

A

Yeah good news like for a big frame, we're talking big because the the frame actually for the kind.

A

Of design we want to do would be quite large. It would be on the order of eight feet or 10 feet.

A

Or 12 feet actually so so room size. We're talking now room size like eight by eight by eight feet,.

A

Around we could do for a 4 by surface. Your frame would actually be 12., so um that is huge.

A

But the good news is for even at that size, you're talking about uh still about forty dollars per.

A

Frame section like we're talking about making frames. If you look at my dock, the way we've done.

A

Some frames before, let's see I might is my share work now, not really okay. If so, if you look at.

A

My slide, the way we've done a lot of frames would be like in this picture down. Here I just expanded.

A

We cut those frames out of flats and we weld them together as six sides. We can do the rebar trusses.

A

That way where the rebar truss is like a the square thing, we put six of them together. So four.

A

Sides top and bottom, and that ends up costing like 240 dollars, which is so amazing. Because a steel.

A

Structure like that would be thousands of dollars on the order of thousand multiple thousands.

A

Depending on how we do it, so that's, I still think that could be the cheapest low. I mean lowest cost.

A

Good deal, it would hold at least 320 pounds. On top all you need to hold on top.

A

Is the extruder you know, and maybe some rolls of filament or something no, the rolls would probably.

A

Be on the on the ground kind of getting spooled up uh so yeah. It definitely has the strength.

A

And has good cost so I started looking now: okay, let's look at the chamber itself.

A

Now the chamber itself would look like the picture on the next page.

A

So I actually started that in free cad and you can click on a cad link up there uh and then I.

A

Put like an axis down the middle and the slits down the front and back where the z axis goes up.

A

And down so this is this: is your double shell of steel with quarter inch by two inch angle, corners.

A

And the steel itself is one one: eighth inch plate and you stick insulation down the middle of it.

A

And I looked up our value on wikipedia got a formula for heat loss and calculated that.

A

The heat loss for six inches would be about 150 watts over the entire machine on the sides.

A

So I said: wow, that's pretty good, 150 watts! That's not a lot for this huge volume.

A

uh So I said: okay, let's go down to four inches. That would get you 210 watts of loss, but still.

A

Rather low and much thinner like four inches compared to six inches, I'm just thinking about the.

A

Build like four inches much easier. You can take two angles of two by two angles and you put them.

A

Like that- and that makes a four inch cavity in there, so you can do that now you can look at the.

A

Cad file, if you want to see some detail, but that's initial initial work and how much does this cost.

A

Well, steel is a dollar a pound and those plates weigh about five five pounds per square foot.

A

So if you're talking about approximately four by eight uh sheets so like this is cost, this is like.

A

As expensive as this heat chamber is going to be minus, some seals like we're going to have seals.

A

Going up the slits I mentioned, putting something like carbon fiber blankets, so that the rods go.

A

Up smoothly against it and there's a there's, an airtight seal around the rods, so the rods.

A

Go through that kind of like a wiper made of soft material, that's high temperature material.

A

Well, each side of this big chamber is about four by eight feet: 32 square feet. So that's about it's.

A

Got four sides and then top and bottom um top and bottom are smaller. The bulk is the sides, but.

A

You got eight sheets like that about two four six, eight right. Each one of them is about 160 pounds.

A

Times eight that gets over a thousand pounds uh what's 160 times uh 160 times, eight.

A

Eight, that's like 1480., it's about 1500 bucks for that chamber for a huge chamber like that.

A

Plus insulation, which is house insulation or rockwool insulation, like in a house.

A

Because this is only 200c about so there we go. uh I can claim that the chamber price is going to be.

A

1500 for the steel plus, whatever seals, we need and stuff like that awesome, so we're we're in.

A

Except yes, yeah, it's kind of adding up to that that number, but that's going to be.

A

Like the most expensive part, this heat chamber, because that's a solid, enclosed structure, it's.

A

Got a lot of a lot of surface area. The axes are talk about the one inch shaft, not too expensive,.

A

It's like these days. It's like four dollars a foot, so that adds up, but you can also do.

A

They have mechanical tubing, that's actually much cheaper than that, because we're not carrying a.

A

Lot of weight on these on these axes, you can probably spend the upper axes with.

A

Hollow tubing, which is going to be like a dollar a foot, so it's going to be like 10 bucks for the.

A

Axis steel plus 3d printed parts plus motors that are about 30.- I mean this doesn't add.

A

Up too much like uh 50 to 100 bucks per axis uh so, and you got two four five and counting.

A

Six, if you count the bad access kind of the support there so six times.

A

You know 50 or 100 about 600 for the axes or so yeah we're going to do it. Then you need the.

A

Extruder structure and then the pei that rides on top pei is uh what is it like.

A

I don't know like 20 bucks.

A

Pi we get from mcmaster car right now and uh pei mcmaster.

A

um Pei sheets and those cost.

A

Let's go to the d3 because we use those. So we have that record under, say: d3dbom.

A

So uh I'm looking at pi surface eight by eight inch, okay 12 by 24, inches or two square feet.

A

Of it are, how much are they? Oh, 40 bucks? That's not cheap that that stuff is high performance, pretty.

A

Expensive, uh so about 40 bucks for two square feet. On top there that's going to add up 40 times.

A

Much more than that, but if that's the case, if we find that's, that's too much, we can use just like.

A

Aluminum um aluminum is going to be way cheaper. This at at 20 bucks, a square foot you've got four.

A

Four by four on top, except you have twice that you have eight by eight, so 64 square feet.

A

Times 20., if you made that out of pei yeah, it would be like 1200 bucks for that.

A

Surface that's way too much. Let's what I would do, then, is do like a pi sheet attached around.

A

The extruder there and then just so you can see what's inside, it's like a visor window because.

A

It's transparent and the rest just put like aluminum and save a lot of money. It's not going to.

A

Be 1200, yeah! 1200! That's that's a lot, uh so we can do much better than that. If we just use a common.

A

Material like aluminum, which is going to be like a dollar to a square foot. What was the material.

A

Oh yeah, there you go and at that point you get in a dollar a pound at the material cost. So yes, but.

A

We need to buy the first because we don't have that yet unless we make it on a small printers.

A

Which we could you ready yeah yeah? We are. We are good, so actually good point. We are going.

A

To be able to save that 1200 bucks because we can print it, for I don't know, like 10 bucks.

A

Or something especially, you can get pei regrind, okay, so google regrind is the technical term for.

A

When they chew it back up to recycle, so let's see pi regrind. Can we get it.

A

uh Yeah sure I mean regrind that plenty of it and how much does it cost? I'm gonna say it's.

A

Probably gonna cost like like a dollar a pound, because that's the typical price for regrind of.

A

High performance plastics, so yeah we're going to get that cost down from 1200 to 10 bucks or so.

A

Because it's only it's very thin, it's like fourth of an inch for the stuff. We we get typically.

A

Yeah yeah so yeah once we once we get to that level of yeah we're building.

A

Making all these materials that's gonna, be very attractive, so yeah good news. uh I think we're.

A

We're on track, I think the price point can be very low, so we can look at explicitly. Okay, what's the.

A

What's the very explicit one like okay for this four by four chamber,.

A

I think we should probably you know four by four: that's that's. We might even cut it in half.

A

Like four by two, because on a four by two that still means you can print a bunch of these panels,.

A

Side to side standing vertically each panel is about six inches.

A

So on a two foot wide bed, you can fit almost four of them, so we might say maybe do that as our first.

A

Iteration we got four print heads. We print four panels at the same time or something like that. So.

A

Yeah, we have to kind of refine this to exactly what we want, because, uh as far as we know like.

A

Nobody makes anything this size, it would probably be the largest heated printer in the world. Perhaps.

A

I don't know I at least consumer printer that you can buy off the shelf, otherwise you're paying.

A

Like millions for a company to make it especially for you so yeah, that's looking good looking good.

A

So, let's wrap it up at that anyone on a remote still, no nobody remote. Is there.

A

Yeah yeah, so I think this is.

A

Time to call it a day, I think we got some a bunch of stuff done. It's.

A

I think we move forward how you guys feel about where we got to. I feel good yeah. I think we.

A

Learned quite a bit, we went definitely forward motion like a little deep. You know, step by step.

A

Like okay, the frame is 240 bucks. That's amazing! I love it. uh I didn't know that until today did you.

D

Look forward that you're making a frame. I did. I recorded this this session right now, yeah and.

A

I did not mod if you look at my page click on the cad link, yeah yeah, I looked at it. I have.

A

The visual history there I'm curious how, like I created it, that quickly yeah it was like. I was.

B

Just sitting here watching like I was doing research I looked, I was like. Oh it's almost.

B

Done cool yeah? No, that's! uh That's what we're aiming for and uh let's go there for a second but.

A

You got you have to think about how this thing is organized in order to draw it the most easily and.

A

I'm thinking, okay, it's this tall, columnar thing well, looking straight down: it's where you see.

A

All those profiles, the angle profile, looking from the top, so I just drew the four corners.

A

And extruded them to nine feet because it's going to have to be a little bigger than eight feet.

A

Because you gotta fit the whole bed in there and I just drew the side.

A

Everything in the xy plane- I just extruded on top- and it's quick like each sketch- takes.

A

You know takes a half a minute if you do it so in principle, you can do this kind of a design.

A

It took like half an hour to an hour an hour, maybe an hour, but it's a basic, very basic. I.

A

Just did a few details in there I imported. I didn't draw that axis. I imported that so you.

A

Have to work with parts that are already there and I added the angle to the architecture, part library.

A

So that now you can download the angle just the shape. So when you're making an angle like that.

B

Yeah I mean you'd be on a ladder looking down like that, like it's, a 108 nine foot.

A

Yeah, so I started with the four verticals I added one side I imported the. So you see.

A

That in the visual history, you can study what I did and you can kind of follow that. So that's.

A

Why the visual history is pretty useful and I got all the way to that last picture where.

A

I just enclosed it with all the sides and put in a slid. The slit is also ended by the angle.

A

Because on the edges, you want to make sure that your edges are tight and attached to something. But.

A

That's like you know I thought about this before it's like. You know, I think about it and dream.

A

About it, so so it's like I had this in my mind already, so I just went bam. Let's just put it into.

A

Cad: what's the visual history, four pictures on top of the cad file, so cad large? If you see cad large.

A

When you go to that page high temperature, heated enclosure, there's cad large.

A

Off my cat link yeah and I just pasted the pictures in there because that's useful. It's.

A

Like you can study it, and you can actually study the files, because each file that I uploaded to.

A

The version history now there's about four or five files in there. It corresponds to that point.

A

In the file, so you can actually go back to it. If you want to modify it, you can.

A

That's why those pictures are important. I think it's a very useful tool.

A

To do it now, after the six months, if you practice like half an hour each day like you'll, get to this.

A

Because it's not that complicated! You have to have a clear idea of how it's being built.

A

uh But once you have that clear, like okay, I just decided I'm looking from the top. That's easy.

A

Otherwise, if you like, drew it from the face, then you'd have to draw this face, then move it.

A

Rotate it if I look from the top I just drew this face here, extruded I drew this face extruded, so.

A

That was easier, an easier workflow, so you kind of have to think. What's the easiest way to design it.

A

When you're you're cutting it up- and you think about what's the geometry here, if it's.

A

Z: geometry: yeah: this thing is going straight up, work on the xy plane. That's the easiest way.

A

You can get this three-dimensional thing in a z-direction because it's largely symmetrical.

A

Like around the z-axis yeah, so that's that sounds like importing and integrating the you know.

A

Yeah, so I knew I knew that we had the d3dcnc torch table. So I went to that page and I said.

A

I downloaded that file and just took one axis out of there and that's just a like.

A

A placeholder access, because that's not exactly how the bed support is gonna, be probably like one.

A

uh One bar one stiff bar: that's right down the middle so that it it opens up.

A

You have the smallest slit, probably like a half an inch by four inch piece of metal.

A

Half inch by four inch, or maybe three eighths by four, and so it doesn't torque.

A

This way so yeah, probably like half inch half inch by four. I can tell you that is very stiff.

A

Span it all the way across and you just opened up the slit and the sides of the chamber. Only half.

A

Half an inch, that's all we need so don't don't sit back, don't make like the one inch axis you.

A

Know that's twice as much heat loss. Potentially you have to close it up tighter. So you do it. The.

A

Minimum thickness that you can still seal up and have a have, no time no temperature loss, no heat.

A

Loss out of that yeah, so the the workflow that I used was simply merge. When I did that I did.

A

You don't import it. You merge, there's a merge file in the file menu within freecad, so you go freecad.

A

File, merge, it's not import, it's merged and that's the merge workflow so make a note of that on the.

A

Wiki page there's a there's. A page called merge, workflow study that that's that's all that we do.

A

Here and that's all, we need to do and that's how I did this thing and it's quick, quick and efficient.

A

Merge workflow I'm actually going to put a link to that because that's a very important page.

A

Merge workflow.

A

And there's a video on the merge workflow up there too. So let me put that.

A

I'll put that right next to the title, there merge workflow on slide number six.

A

And that's a way where, if people are working on individual files like if we divided that.

A

Printer into many many files, like someone else, do the access. Within that hour, we could have.

A

Done the whole thing: that's that's how good it gets can do a complex design if you have.

A

Part libraries that you've already worked on- it's really good, that's very powerful, so.

A

Then we can talk about iterating on a design like that. In an hour we have the cad. We start 3d.

A

Printing parts put parts on a torch table and bam, it's going to be magic, and that's that's where we.

A

Want to get to eventually in these next six months, if we're going to build a few torch tables so.

A

We can get that workflow we're going to build the printer so that, with the printers and torch tables.

A

Will do a lot a lot with that pretty quickly yeah yeah, so yeah, let's wrap it up with that. That is.

A

That is pretty good news. These workflows can be very effective, um simply merging multiple files.

A

That go into a part library, the part library holds all these files you as soon as you do. It.

A

uh You upload it to the part library you do the screenshots so that we have a visual history of.

A

How the thing was built even with multiple people and if you're working on one part library, the only.

A

Thing is the wiki is not real-time editable, it's semi-real-time editable. It's! It's live.

D

What's that, maybe there could be maybe there's an extension for like adding dots functionality.

A

Well, you can edit it, but if two people are edit at the exact same time, you get conflict and and.

A

You have to like one person has to like copy and paste their work, maybe into a different page and.

A

To save it, because otherwise you're gonna lose it or wait for that person. The first person that.

A

No, if you get a conflict, you basically have to remember what you changed and then go back to that.

A

Page, which is not convenient, that's not good, but if we're doing this kind of work, one thing we can.

A

Do about that is um set up different wiki pages or as simple as uh let's see. First different sections.

A

Oh yeah, I think you can address that. The wiki can have main main headings which are between the.

A

Equal signs, I think, if you're editing, different sections, it only takes that particular yeah. There.

A

You go so as long as we divide the wiki page into different sections with the equal sign. That's the.

A

Main heading then, multiple people, adding that in real time won't conflict only when you're.

A

Editing the same section, um we don't run into that a lot you run into it. Sometimes it's not.

A

Not a bad issue, but that's why we embed the google docs, because that way we can completely real time.

A

Do it that's so you combine the google docs and betting them into the wiki. Yeah sounds good.

A

um So what next on on monday, so we'll go back? We we do want to review and study what we did.

A

On on friday, so we can go over the video. Let's go to the video tape and study it, because we can. We.

A

Can learn a lot from it too? I've got the video look at my channel. I put up all my time lapses.

A

And uh other people do put them in your log, like I would scour logs to see if people got any videos.

A

Or the day page, the the 120 design sessions day, three or you know corresponding days, put put.

A

All your links to we should set up that template better. So it's easier for people, you just click.

A

In there and just click on upload, so we should make that more easy template it a little more.

A

We started a template, so that's good. It's a good start every day, we're going to make it better. So.

A

That's cool, let's finish at that it was a good day. I think we got some bits accomplished. Yeah.

A

Yeah, so we'll do saturdays we'll do this kind of full time and off in the weekend weeks. You know if.

A

You have any time yeah continue working on us. It's it's literally we're going to make it as good as.

A

As we make it by how much effort we put into it, uh and my my priority would be to get.

A

Get more money I want to contact some people see if they can throw some more money at it. For that.

A

We, like some of the first things, are getting a website. Maybe like paul paul, is talking about.

A

That, but like a website or some basic prints like what you're doing with the just actually.

A

Posting okay, even if it's the first draft of it, but let's start making it look like okay, we've got.

A

Something that's actually coming up, uh because we're eventually posted on um on a hero x, page.

A

But we can have a website that does that that that shows more info, maybe supporting um like teaching.

A

Documentation like rapid learning materials yeah that would be useful in another page.

A

Yeah, so we're wrapping up paul um yeah. We just mentioned that the website, as you were walking.

A

In because you mentioned website, we should try to get one up and I would ask you like man, let's just.

A

Throw one up and start uh iterating on it. You know: how can we do that? What's the most effective way.

B

Yeah, well, I can make a landing page. If that would help. I don't know x posts your description, but it.

B

Would help to gather people, um I usually make a static site. I use this library called tailwinds.

B

With react is that the dragon drop, the newer one is that wix you're saying uh no. You can't use wix.

B

um But it's a programmer, it's either it's just like it's. It's a front end yeah man.

A

We just started doing uh like detroit arcology.org. That's like an example of something we did pretty.

B

Quickly for our own project and uh I'm happy to just like copy and paste it change some colors.

B

Or chase smart and the website detroit arcology.org, so that's uh yeah, yeah! It's a static.

B

Site, you can host that you know github pages or amazon or any number of free hosting sites.

B

You you're uh you're, the designer too. I am not the designer. I can't take credit for that.

B

Okay, I was like well that's a pre-made theme and I can. I can look up a number of different.

B

Things and give people choices and use any one of those. That's like a tail wednesday that was a.

B

You know an sdm package.

C

So people tell me what to put on it, I'm happy to, but I'm not liking the students standard things.

B

Like teammates um well so that's prince, prince giuma's skeleton like because prince looked into.

A

That heavily like, what's what's the challenge, include, um send a skeleton on and just start.

A

Filling that info yeah just make it attractive. I think the focus the real value we can produce is.

A

Training teaching people the thing that people get out of this is rapid learning on how to.

A

Start building their world really sure uh and to to that, like good learning materials like.

A

All the including how to do free, cad like really effectively so maybe another video like a really.

A

Good video, I have the my two super tight five minute videos there, but maybe we do like a more.

A

More dedicated to this, this effort super tight, like three cat videos, super type look at freecad.

A

101 on the wiki- and you see two of my videos where there's not a second of breathing space. It's super.

A

uh Condensed because I was pissed like how many hours I'll have to go through so many videos.

A

To learn a little detail, that person would put up like a 15 minute, video that I could that I would.

A

Show in my video in about five seconds- and I was like man think about how many hours are wasted.

A

When people are going through all those videos, so I said, let's make me a video that that tries to.

A

Do that super condensed, um but you have to review that video many times to get it, because it's super.

A

Fast-Paced but that kind of style the no dead time kind of high quality, where one minute takes you.

A

An hour of edit, you know like per minute, like one or two hours to ju vetted to to get like a.

A

One minute or something to that effect or or even worse than that it just took a long time. It took.

A

Like uh I think it took like a day or two yeah, I mean a day or two to make five minutes condense.

A

The instruction into five minutes, which is yeah, that's normal: it takes time to cut out yeah. It's.

B

Not essential yeah yeah that can be on the front page yeah training that is youtube. They can just.

B

Click play right under a quick two, two minute intro on this, I'm open to all y'all pumping into.

A

It like people see my face, but if you guys want to do it, we, maybe we just do like one sentence.

H

A

A

And the imp and stuff like that, I was going to see it like if I can.

B

Throw up something maybe yeah like if we all just submitted yeah yeah yeah like.

B

Does which one fits best yeah iterative just keep going just blast it and see what sticks.

A

Yeah, pretty cool all right, so I'll stop! Recording right here.