►
Description
Nice podcast on technological tranparency and saving the world with open source collaboration, with lifetime design at the core.
More notes at:
https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Crazy_Town_Podcast
-----------------
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A
A
A
A
B
B
B
C
A
You
know
there's
often
downsides
that
are
not
as
well
understood
when
you
start
going
down
a
path
of
adopting
a
technology
and
and
they
at
scale
they
become
really
a
problem.
So
so
hydrogen,
for
example,
yeah
sure
anyone.
You
know
you
can
do
electrolysis
and
a
home
lab
and
capture
some
of
that
and
burn
hydrogen,
but
delivering
at
volume
and
distributing
through
pipelines
that
you
know
that
all
becomes
a
whole
different
animal.
So
to
speak.
A
B
A
A
Foreign,
much
of
what
we
kind
of
talk
about
is
the
really
understanding
how
to
how
to
reduce
you
know
the
demand
of
the
energy
and
any
and
and
all
the
just
the
materials
from
that
come
from
the
environment
and
how
you
do
that
and
preserve
complex.
Modern
symbolization
is
sort
of
a
big
question
that
it
runs
across
all
our
minds.
A
B
A
Yeah,
that's
a
lot
of
what
we
talk
about
is
how
do
you
you
know?
How
do
you?
How
do
you
do
something
like
if
you
want
to
decarbonize
the
economy
and
85
percent
of
primary
energy?
Is
fossil
fuel
based
and
we
don't
see
renewable
scaling
to
replace
that
very
readily
and
the
material
consequence?
If
you
try
to
do
that,
given
modern
renewables
is
quite
dramatic,
you
can
measure
things
and
you
know
how
many,
how
many
gigatons
of
materials
the
economy
uses
in
a
year
and
trying
to
then
replicate
that
and
so
yeah
I
mean.
A
B
C
C
A
B
B
A
Start
doing
math
on
saying:
okay,
if
we
want
to
use
nickel
iron
batteries
to
store
and
replace
you
know
the
the
on-demand
you
need.
You
know
things
that
the
gas
or
nuclear
or
coal
does
on
on
our
hydro
on
the
grid
and
and
interconnect
inter
kind
of
you
know,
mass
scale
intermittent
renewables
at
a
nation
state
kind
of.
B
A
And
and
re-reconfigure
the
entire
electric
grid
to
do
that,
it
becomes
really
daunting
and
I
know
there's
you
know,
there's
really
debate
in
the
literature
about
this.
So
you
have
models
like,
like
you
know
the
stanford
guy
jacobson
in
that
group,
and
then
you
have.
Then
you
have
a
lot
of
folks
sort
of
poking
holes
in
that
and
and
like
like
black
at
all,
and
so
there's
real
debates
about
this.
We
we.
C
A
Of
the
problems
with
these
these
these
renewables
is
that
they're
all
they
often
should
be
thought
about
as
rebuildables
in
that
you
know
right
now.
The
first
generation
of
wind
turbines
are
are
becoming
landfill
issues
in
in
places
like
spain
and
so
yeah,
because
you
know
there's
these
complex,
laminates
and
things
and
they're.
You
know
resins
and
plastics
and
balsa
wood
and
and
it's.
B
B
A
C
A
C
A
B
A
A
If
you're
trying
to
get
rid
of
get
off
of
fossil
fuel,
we're
going
to
then
say
well
we're
going
to
electrify
we're
going
to
electrify
transportation.
We're
going
to
you
know,
do
all
these
things
that
will
move
things
into
the
world
of
electrification.
Well,
then,
all
sudden,
your
electricity
demands
go
up
so
now
now
you're
asking
renewables,
not
you
know
or
rebuildable,
so
to
speak,
not
just
to
replace
the
electric.
A
So
that
becomes
a
problem.
The
other
big
problem
becomes
in
things
like
a
lot
of
industrial
manufacturing
processes
are
really
high.
They're,
high
heat
dependent
and
fossil
fuels
are
unique
in
how
easy
it
is
to
just
fire
fire
up
furnaces
with
them
and
generate
you
know,
get
up
to
1000
celsius
and
and
do
a
lot
of
things,
it's
very
hard
to
do
that
with
electricity.
You
can,
of
course,
but
boy
the
the
amount
of
power
you
need.
You
know
to
do
that
with
electricity.
A
A
Batteries
hate
doing
hate
like
delivering
at
that
kind
of
you
know,
so
they
end
up
getting
overheated
and
they
end
up
degrading,
and
so
there's
not
a
lot
of
you
know
it's
very
hard
to
envision
how
to
how
to
take
fossil
fuels
or-
or
you
know,
just
hydrocarbons.
You
just
call
them
hydrocarbons
and
some
of
those
properties
are
so
unique
that
it's
very
hard
to
know
how
to
electrify
at
scale.
A
B
B
A
But
you
put
you
put
a
tractor
out
on
the
field
you're
bouncing
around
and
you're
tow
and
you're
pulling
something
you
might
be
running
at
70,
80
percent
of
your
power.
You
know
possible
capacity,
much
of
the
day
hours
on
end
and
electric
systems
hate
that
you
know
they
just
hate
having
to
like
deliver
that
upsize
everything
so
nicely.
C
C
B
C
C
A
A
C
B
B
C
C
A
A
C
C
A
A
Episode
like
we
talk
about
is
about
complexity
and
it's
causing
specialization
like
job
specialization
and
we
kind
of
we
kind
of
discuss
how
societies
have
evolved
to
become
more
complex
over
time
and
there's
a
lot
more
knowledge
in
the
world,
a
lot
more
people
that
do
things
that
you
can't
imagine
doing
yourself,
because
they're
just
they're
specialists-
and
this
leads
to
the
situation.
I
think
I
find
myself
right
where
I
don't
understand
how
the
world
works,
and
it's
just
sort
of
this
big
organism
right.
That's
moving
along.
B
A
Anyway,
I
find
it
fascinating
to
watch
what
you're
doing,
because
you're
you're
trying
to
sort
of
break
like
industrial
civilization
down
into
these
like
component
machines.
You
know
the
50
things
you
need
yeah
and,
and
so,
whereas
I
look
at
industrial
civilization,
and
I
see
that
it's
just
part
of
maybe
this.
This
what's
happened
at
all
these
societies,
where
they
become
fragile
as
they
become
more
complex.
B
A
And
and
up
to
the
store,
not
persisting,
you
know
so
anyway,
I
wanted
to
talk
to
you
in
this
sort
of
do
the
opposite
segment
of
the
show,
because
we
want
to
get
into
what
individuals
or
societies
might
do
to
be
the
opposite.
What
it's
done
of
the
past,
which
is
ever
more
complex
trade
networks,
yeah.
A
B
C
C
C
C
C
B
A
B
C
Shares
the
best
information
someone's
got
the
best
thing
they
patent
it.
It's
a
it's
a
really
profound
issue
in
society
that
we
don't
really
see
it.
We
think
we're
innovating,
google,
amazon
and
all
this
stuff.
We
are
in
the
stone
age
of
innovation,
we're
causing
more
problems
right
now
than
we're
solving
yeah.
A
That's
kind
of
yeah,
so
that's
a
complete
opposite
of
the
idea
that
yeah,
that
that
sort
of
private
self-interest
and
greed
will
motivate
people
and
teams
of
people
to
innovate
and
and
solve
problems
and
you're,
saying
well
kind
of,
but
also
it
also
says
it's
also
part
of
the
system.
That
then
says
well,
I
have
to
keep
it
to
myself.
I
can't
share
it
openly
and-
and
I
you
know
what
makes
me
think
of
the
pandemic
right,
why
wasn't.
C
C
C
B
A
A
But
we
also
most
people
live
in
cities
and
don't
even
know
how
to
grow
a
potato
right.
So
it's
interesting
because
you
live
on
a
farm
and
you're
sort
of
setting
this
up
so
that
you
can
you
call
it
the
global
village
construction
set.
So
I'm
kind
of
curious,
you
know,
is:
what's
your
vision?
Do
you
see
these
sort
of
smaller
scale
communities
having
the
technology
to
be?
You
know
more
kind
of
self-sufficient
in
the
context
of
that
community.
A
A
C
A
B
B
C
A
C
C
C
A
B
B
A
B
C
A
A
A
Like
like,
like
wind
turbines,
can
you
make
wind
top
turbines
that
you
with
your
equipment
could
build
but
also
easily
repair
refurbish,
as
opposed
to
the
kind
of
the
giant
ones?
Now
that
require
helicopters
and
huge
cranes
and
are
made
of
20
different,
you
know
materials
so
yeah.
What's
your
thought
about
that?
The.
B
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
B
A
Now
people
are
questioning
the
sense
of
the
whole
thing
and
you
know
what
am
I
spending
my
life
forced
doing
and
is
my
job?
Does
my
job
actually
have
any
meeting
at
all,
and
I
think
you
know
so
many
people
be
really
excited
about
what
you're
doing
like
I
come
from
a
biological
background,
so
I
threw
myself
when
I
started
thinking
about
this.
You
know
I
threw
myself
into
becoming
a
farmer
and
my
mind
went
to
like
geez
without
fossil
fuels.
A
You
know,
okay,
maybe
there's
some
biofuels,
but
then
I
start
thinking
about
the
industrial
design
and
manufacturing
process
and
how
globalized
that
is,
and
you
can't
you
can't
fix
your
tractor
nowadays
legally,
even
if
you
buy
it
new
and
I
just
said
well,
maybe
I
should
be
doing
horse
farming
or
something,
but
I
think
for
you,
it's
interesting.
You
come
from
this
physics
background
and
you
decided
to
tackle
like
okay.
C
A
I
find
that
amazing,
because
I
I
might
I
myself
and
the
kind
of
person
might
blame
industrialization
for
the
mess
we
find
ourselves
in
and
you
seem
to
be
in
this
sort
of
thing.
No,
it's
it's
not
necessarily
industrialization
per
se.
It's
the
scale.
It
went
to
it's
sort
of
the
ownership
structures,
the
fact
that
people
don't
have
control
of
technology
and
so
you're.
B
B
C
B
C
C
C
C
C
C
A
B
C
C
A
A
A
C
A
B
B
C
B
C
C
C
C
C
B
A
C
B
C
C
C
A
C
C
C
A
Well,
thank
you
so
much
for
your
time,
fascinating
to
speak
to
someone
who's
got
that
the
kind
of
optimism
and
skill
set
you
do
related
to
technology,
so
really
interesting,
sort
of
voice
and
and
gives
gives
people
with
that
kind
of
interest
and
desire
an
amazing
outlet.
So
thank
you
so
much
for
all
your
work
and
I
really
appreciated
having
you
here
on
crazy
town.
Thank.
A
A
A
B
C
A
Oh
yeah,
not
it's
a
small
small
operation,
so
I
get
help
my
son
helps
me
out.
I
get
students
from
the
local
university,
so
my
farm
is
partnering
with
the
local
university
and
the
students
have
their
own,
their
own
sort
of
fields
on
campus
and
and
so
we
actually
distribute
off
on
a
campus
facility,
and
so
I'm
kind
of
augmenting
the
the
farms
that
the
students
run
and-
and
sometimes
I
I'll
have
them
out
to
help
me
out.
So
that's
been
really
nice
been
neat
to
talk
to
them
and
yeah.
C
A
C
A
A
Know
help
feed
my
family
and
and
I'm
around
the
home
all
the
time.
So
I
can
do
this.
Do
the
laundry
and
keep
up
with
you
know
make
meals,
so
my
really
busy
physician
wife
is
just
happy
that
you
know
I
don't
have
some
some
career
where
I
drive
away,
drive
away
to
a
job
and
I'm
stressed
out
and
get
back
at
the
same
time
she
does
exhausted
yeah.
So.
C
C
C
C
A
A
A
No,
I
think
it
just
has
to
do
with
a
couple
of
things.
We
happen
to
be
a
place
that
grows
hazelnuts
better
than
most
other
places
in
the
world,
and
so
you
know
in
agriculture,
crops
tend
to
go
to
places
that
are
the
most
productive
relative
to
cost.
So
that
happens
to
be
our
climate,
we're
a
very
unique
place.
We
grow
most
of
the
grass
seed
in
the
united
states
as
well,
so
there's
and
cover
crop
seed,
a
lot
of
vegetable
seed,
and
it
has
to
do
with
the
fact
that
we
have.
A
C
A
That's
how
that's
why
it's
so
important,
so
the
hazelnuts
drop
onto
the
ground
and
they
drop
on
the
ground
here
and
it's
dry
ground
and
whereas
other
place,
parts
of
the
world.
You
know
it's
it's
who
knows
how
wet
it
is
and
what
the
grass
is
like
and
what
kind
of
molds
might
be
there
and
they
hear
their
nice
dry
ground
when
they
fall,
and
it's.
C
A
A
A
A
B
A
Trees
and
they're
harder
to
manage
there,
some
of
those
are
being
taken
out
and
you
can
see
the
blight
on
them
now.
What's
interesting
about
the
blight,
though,
is
that
this
is
why
they're
getting
to
smaller
trees,
they're
trying
to
crop
them,
because
the
black
comes
in
from
the
tips
and
works
its
way
back,
so
you
actually
can
see
it,
and
you
just
cut
the
branch
off
you
should
just
so.
There
needs
to
be
aggressive
pruning
and
if
you
prune
the
branches
off
that
have
blood,
it
don't
spread
in
your
orchard.
A
B
A
C
B
A
Oh,
it's
expensive.
My
place
has
irrigation
rights
and
good
good
tillable
soil.
So
it's
probably
worth
like
12
000,
an
acre
of
the
tillable
land
and
then
we've
got
forest.
You
know
some
riparian
zones
that
are
forested
and
that
sells
for
a
lot
less
for
some
reason,
but
so
yeah,
it's
12,
000
acres,
pretty
steep
yeah.
A
C
C
A
It's
super
marginal
at
my
scale.
I
I
think
you
know
I
could
be
a
lot
better
off.
If
I
had
you
know
a
plastic
hoop
house
which
I
really
I
hate
those
things
in
some
ways,
but
boy
you
could
grow
so
much
stuff.
That
would
be
really
valuable
in
the
off
season.
Like
the
like,
the
greens,
just
keeping
people
with
with
fresh
greens,
year-round.
B
A
Could
get
those
to
grocery
stores
and
that
would
probably
be
a
way
to
really
like
make
make
more
money
right
now,
it's
rough,
I'm
still
building
my
tool
set
out
and
getting
better
what
I'm
doing
so,
we'll
see
I'm
hoping
to
find
some
some
valuable
cash
crops
like
like
doing
seeds,
vegetable
seeds,
these
kind
of
things,
so
you
can
make
you
can
make
a
decent
living
on.
You
know
a
half
acre
of
vegetable
seeds,
but
you
got
to
get
into
the
market.
They
got
people
that
know
you
trust
you
you've
got
vegetable.
A
A
C
A
Do
you
work
throughout
it's
hard
to
keep
track?
What's
really
nice
about
farming?
Is
that
you
you're
kind
of
going
between
things
that
are
cognitively
challenging
and
make
you
slow
down,
because
you're
planning
and
you're
you're,
executing
and
you've
got
to
be
really
precise
and
then
you're
switching
task,
switching
to
things
that
are
kind
of
mindless
and
and
physical?
A
So
I
really
like
that
about
it
and
then
in
the
off
season,
you're
doing
a
lot
of
planning.
You
know:
you're
you're,
getting
your
seat.
Your
seeds
lined
up
you're
planning
your
crops
for
the
season,
you're
planning
where
they're
going
to
go
the
layout,
the
design
of
the
farm
and
then
a
lot
of
spreadsheets
and
stuff
and
and
then
calendarizing
activities.
I
use
an
open
source
software
called
form
os
to
kind
of
track.
What
I'm
doing
and
plan
a
bit
and
how.
C
A
B
A
A
Well
I'll,
I
basically
use
it
to
record
activities
and
things
and
then
also
you
can
plan
activities.
So
you
might
say:
when
do
I
need
to
sew
these
seeds?
What's
the
window
that
I
need
to
sow
these
seeds
so
that
I
can
make
this
harvest
so
you
can
start
from
the
harvest
and
say:
okay,
if
I
need
to
harvest
here,
because
I'm
trying
to
target
target
harvest,
let's
say
green
beans.
You
know
in
mid-september.
B
A
And
well
they're
going
to
take
75
days
from
planting
to
be
ready.
Okay,
I'm
going
to
back
up
okay.
When
do
I
need
to
plant
them,
I'm
going
to
direct
seed
them
great
and
you
can
back
up
again
and
say:
okay,
when
is
that?
When
does
the
area
need
to
be
ready
to
see
great,
to
get
ready
to
see
what
I
need
to
do?
Okay,
I
need
to
need
to
do
some
cultivation
I
might
want
to
pre-irrigate
sprouts
and
weeds,
cultivate
again.
A
Okay,
I
need
three
weeks
ahead
of
when
I'm
seeding
all
out
in
farmer
os
there's
a
set
of
activities
you
need
to
do
and
it
will
show
up
on
a
calendar
now
you
start
doing
that
for
every
crop,
and
suddenly
you
start
seeing
the
pat.
You
know
what
your
activities
need
to
be,
and
you
might
say
that
day's
got
I'm
doing
everything
that
day,
so
you
might
need
a
micro
shift
or
where
you
you
can
treat
it
more
like
you
know
this
week
is
the
kind
of
when
I
need
to
get
this
stuff
done
right.
A
A
Yes,
and
I
don't
even
I
don't
even
yeah-
I
often
don't
even
take
notes,
I
just
say:
okay
I'll
go
home
I'll,
get
home
at
the
end
of
the
day
and
I'll
and
I'll
go
into
it
and
I'll.
Just
basically
like
there's
an
activity.
That's
like
the
activity
was
on
the
calendar.
It
said
you
will
plant
your
potatoes
today
and
I
go
do
it
and
then
I
just
go
in
and
I
record
it
as
done.
A
A
Yeah
database
too,
so
you
want
to
look
something
up.
You
know
on
lists,
you
can
do
lists
and
you
could
say
show
all
my
activities
that
related
to
planting
shallow
activities
related
harvesting
show
all
my
activities
related
tillage
show
all
my
activities
related
to
fertilizing
and
that's
really
helpful
because
I'm
certified
organic,
and
so
if,
when
I
get
an
inspection
you're
like
what.
A
A
B
C
B
A
C
A
C
A
B
A
A
A
B
A
C
A
So
many
projects
to
do
you
know
I'm
trying
to
finish
my
greenhouse
I'm
trying
to
finish
building
the
shelving
and
myself
or
I'm
trying
to
finish
the
enclosure
of
this
one
fenced
in
area.
I'm
trying
to
build
a
simple
sort
of
structure
that
has
like
hardware
cloth
on
it
that
I
can
dump
produce
on
and
hose
it
off.
So
I'm
not
bent
over
doing
it
in
in
buckets
and
stuff.
You
know
for.
A
Oh,
you
know
probably
twice
that
much.
You
know,
but
the
thing
the
thing
that
we
talk
about
is
that
the
stuff
in
the
store
has
won
a
beauty
contest.
Sure
there's
there's
very
little
tolerance
outside
of
that
our
stuff.
It's
like
yeah.
That
pepper,
has
a
little
blemish,
but
you
know
what
it's
fine
so
we're
going
to
give
it
to
them
and
then
also
they
don't
have
free
choice,
they're
kind
of
getting
what
what
we've
got.
So
we
figure
you
know
it's
a
fair
deal
to
get.
A
A
A
No,
it's
usually
it's
like
a
like
a
delivery
service
kind
of
thing.
If
you
look,
I
don't
know
if
it's
in
your
area,
but
I
seeing
what
they
do.
Is
they
go?
They
go
because
there's
there
are,
there
are
distributors
for
produce
all
over
the
nation
and
they
basically
they
ship
it
and
then
go
and
there's
always
rejects.
Oh.
A
B
C
C
B
A
C
C
A
C
Lines,
I
would
think
about
a
forest
line
so
that
you
get
the
plants
just
exploding
out
of
that,
but
also
that's
about
mycelium,
because
you
put
straw
and
dung
in
there
as
you
prepare
the
soil.
So
the
thought
is,
you
have
a
body
of
water
at
the
bottom
of
the
land
start
that
trench
there
and
the
mycelium
is
your
natural
irrigation
system
that
takes
the
water
to
the
top
of
the
hill.