Open Telemetry Uncategorized, 18 May 2022

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From YouTube: 2022-05-18 meeting

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OpenTelemetry PHP SIG Meeting

A

Hey bob hey brad good morning and good evening.

B

How are you bob, how are you guys.

C

Good good day to both of you.

A

Yes, good. Thank you.

D

So brett I've I've thought about that good day. The australian footpath saying it's sort of like the southern united states y'all. It's just good for every context.

B

uh Good, yes, I was confused because we don't, we obviously can track that down to get a oh. I think I think, if you said good day, no one would know what you meant.

D

uh G'day, it's also very fun to say yeah. It.

D

All right, we'll a couple more minutes to see if more people show up excellent.

D

Is it getting hot by either of you yet.

E

B

B

I didn't understand the question.

D

Oh, I said: is it getting temperature warm? Is it getting warm temperature wise for you all yet.

B

uh It's going the.

D

Other direction.

C

For me, can it get warm and otherwise then oh? Well, maybe it can yeah yeah, it's getting 30 degrees tomorrow,.

D

C

Heavy rainstorm and will cool down to 20.

D

Oh, that's! That's good! It's going to be 36 here today, so it's going to be a nice one for us.

D

Oh, we got a full crowd today.

B

Yeah, this is great, welcome everybody.

C

Yeah, you guys have to bring me back in the loop, because I'm a little bit out of it.

D

We will do our best. You know, okay,.

C

D

How's your new job going.

C

ah It's doing going great lots of work because we put out a v2 version too, so there's a lot of stuff to fix until the end of last week, but now it's calmer. So I have a little bit more time.

D

Oh, that's good.

B

Welcome back on board, thank you.

D

What were the is there, do you have like a big highlights from the v2 of your new release? I think exciting.

C

um Yeah, so basically it's based on git or the configuration that people have start somewhere and get on there on github or something like that. So they can do versions and branches of the software and stuff like this. So basically like git ops, button data way.

C

Very so very fun and things around that. So basically it's a version for more technical experience, customers.

A

D

All right, it's 804 my time so I'll start at 805.

D

All right, we are ready to get into action.

D

So today, we'll start by reviewing our open, prs and open box and then looks like kashan has a sas update on instrumentation with symphony, so the open, telemetry php repo has three pr's open, but two of them are semi-tied together. I believe brett made a beautiful pr for concurrent traces and then nevaeh at its um additional context in a separate pr. But do you want to take that away.

B

uh Yeah yeah, so so my um uh or my method involves creating a lot more storage um and, to be honest, I was kind of hoping that that nevaeh or one of the original context authors would pop in uh and help, and so it looks like um his pr that the secret one is both less invasive and probably more elegant than than my own solution. So um I've been chatting with him on on slack and he's and doing some testing of of the pr and it it seems really good.

B

um I I think, we'll probably um I'll, abandon mine shortly um and and we'll let uh nevaeh's one go through.

D

Sweet deal, um the the his pr is still in draft is that because y'all are still conking through some of the implementation to each other anything he just hasn't changed.

B

uh No, I did ask him about that earlier today. He said. Yes, it is very close he's he might um drop a couple of things out of it just um just to keep to keep the scope a bit smaller and sort of get something through, but it sounds very, very close to being ready for review and merge wonderful.

D

And then the other one we have one more.

D

D

We had one more the um we have a creating events and listeners api. Pr, that's still up. It looks like right. You you're the last one to make uh comments about that.

B

Yeah, it's like I don't know if he's spoken to anyone else, but kumar did just have a couple more questions for me about that. Honestly, um it looks like he's still still working on it a little bit. uh It's not it's not dead and it's not abandoned.

D

Got it okay, cool and my.

B

D

B

D

Sean, I I accidentally tagged you in that, but it was uh not your pr. My fault. Sorry, what's up teemo.

C

Yeah he asked me to do some review of the two um a few days ago. What I didn't really have time. So that's what I told him I can look into it again. So if you think that's valuable right soon,.

B

I'm pretty happy with how it is um he's got a few things that that he needs to fix up from you know the last time we reviewed it so um wait for it to get get those all sort of actioned and knocked off, and then we can have another look: hey dog.

D

Excellent uh and as far as the contrib repo, there are three pr's two and draft state one ready for review the scpk bunder factory uh team. I know that. That's that's a big thing and you'd mentioned that you had other other priorities, but I'm just mentioning that one's there.

C

Yeah to me my my um vr.

D

And then cedric had opened one with a instrumentational, an instrumentation bundle uh to capture signals from symphony apps out of the box. I followed up with him earlier this week and he said he has everything except for time and I can empathize with that.

C

D

He's working he's working through that, I believe and then there's one additional pr by w-a-d-j-e-I and he is working on getting his cla uh signed so that we can merge that pr with a bundle. Kernel listener example.

C

uh That's just the documentation right. I.

D

Believe, yeah, that I believe so it's just updating or readme.

D

So those were the open, pr's.

D

Yes sure sean. Would you like to speak about your status, update on instrumentation with symphony.

A

uh Sure so, basically, I just uh needed status update on where we are with symphony and auto instrumentation. In that case,.

B

A

I wanted update, I don't have anything from mine. Basically, I have just set up a symphony framework. The symphony is a framework example that is mentioned in on our page, and I ran into some issues. So first thing was uh to get the root span and that I'm working on found a workaround. But let's see if that works or not I'll talk to brett about that.

A

But apart from that, I don't know where we are with photo instrumentation.

D

I don't think that auto instrumentation is uh directly front of mind for anybody right now. Is there anybody in the car? Thinking about that.

C

Auto instrumentation, that's well! That's! Basically, what's the car for from cedric.

D

Yeah exactly, I think that nobody on the call is working on that I think cedric's, the only one. That's.

C

um Not my answer, I'm working on that since six months never came.

D

C

D

What did I just say we all have we have everything except time. Yes,.

C

Well, I could could uh need some additional things. Time is an issue as well.

D

Yep father time wins every time.

C

um So keyshawn you wanted basically to rework the um the tutorials we have on the website or on in the reaper right for the one.

A

I can do that as well, uh but many thing is, I assume that instrumentation would be something that would be targeting for ga. I guess I'm not sure if you are targeting it for beta.

C

um Well, the thing with the instrumentation of this stuff is: we have to some sort, have a stable, sdk and api to run against us, because the issues which we already had well, we had a lot of issues with keeping up um updating the control people with all regarding to the changes we have done in sdk, so um yeah. Once we have everything in place, then it should be easier to actually do something with spreading words and things like that, because there won't be so much work when you're changing the other way around.

C

We won't drastically change anything in the main people or the main libraries.

C

C

um Yeah, I'm just basically.

C

With everything we I think once we have at least a beta and then we should see a lot more um activity on the country. People because we'll just make it easier.

D

Yeah, I think that I think that being able to contribute easily and effectively the contributor is, is going to be paramount for our library going forward, because that's where a lot of our third party instrumentation is going to leave their mark and the easier that we can make that the better off we're going to be.

C

Yeah and for uh for these tutorials on in the repo we have discussed a while for that, we may want to abandon them because they are teaching some things which are not really best practices, and, let's put it that way- and I don't want to- or we probably don't want to give out examples which maybe people copy and then think this is like a recommended way to set up stuff.

C

That was my concern and I could put it uh or you know, go into detail what's actually about, but um you know that was actually what was in my mind since a long time.

C

I don't know if we actually want to do that, but.

D

Yeah, I agree. I agree with you team. I think that these aren't perfect examples and I'm always conflicted with that, because there you know, as a brand new user to this it would be nice to be able to come to our repo and go oh. This is how you can use our library quickly and easily, but if the practices aren't perfect, then it that kind of falls into that anti-pattern right. We want something that is universally accepted as a reasonable implementation, and if we have to remove them, I'm all in favor, for it.

C

Yeah, well I mean the issue is right: there's no real instrumentation, so you could set up this everything because it's basically just using a global scope which you can do in the framework you shouldn't and you can. You could basically use it everywhere and everywhere. It's not really a good way to deal with things.

C

Yeah, that's just to that's. um You maybe see those tutorials, so it's not like. um I would see them as very good examples or tutorials for beginners but um yeah. Maybe we should have something additional in place, which is a little bit more to um more exp or targets more experienced developers, because for me personally, one of the issues would be. This is to way too handholding for me to read. You know. So um it's telling me a lot of stuff about which I already, which is basically for me, it's just information and noise.

C

You know I want to go to the facts: how to go. I set up and don't want to learn how to set up laravel or something or something I can find other places.

A

Yeah, I agree with that. Actually, uh the examples that we have on the readme page: they are, they work only with uh hotel, phps, sticker version 0.0.3 and below. uh Currently we are at 0.0.10 this to just get it to work.

C

Yeah, that's the other issue that they're are basically outdated, so this um version is about a year old, which is um it's depending on so that that's just another thing so.

C

At they tasks, we.

B

Could just put up, for you know new contributors looking for something to do there, um I'm sure enough people with uh laravel experience that they could build a better example and update.

D

I think that's a great idea: bro. We should probably just make a ticket like laravel and symphony examples. Great first issue.

C

Well, I had to work a lot with laravel as well now so another bit more experience but yeah, so I would know better know how to set up something but yeah.

C

Maybe on one of these days I need to plugin for laravel for the sdk instrumentation.

C

That would be cool yeah kind of I'm still not happy with laravel, but I have more experience. I struggle with it.

C

Yeah, but still have the same concerns I had this before.

D

Yeah yeah, we, I think, we've all reversed those same opinions like we need better examples. These ones are not adequate. That's the too long didn't read.

B

D

I get opening it up to.

B

Your contributors, yeah.

D

I'll tell you, I couldn't do it, but.

B

D

C

Yeah I've still enough stuff on my table, so I don't need to do that.

B

You don't need to work, yes,.

C

D

C

Trying to say to you yeah, I'm.

D

I'll actually make two tickets I'll make one for a laravel example and one for a symphony example.

C

D

Okay, those are the uh those were the things that were on the agendas anybody yeah.

C

D

Else they would like to bring up yeah.

C

Justin requirement, maybe for the tickets, that we um make a requirement to use actually some books or entry points or whatever you have there for from a framework and what you know, some trickery which may work. So there are ways in most frameworks that you can integrate stuff like this. You know without overwriting the front controller on some global stages.

D

Sure yeah, I I added a note to my to-do list to make sure to talk about hooks and entry points for those frameworks. I'm I'm now a little bit curious about how both of those work for laravel, so you might have just opened pandora's locks for me to start digging through their documentation.

C

Well, the first start with something really self-defeating.

C

Well, I don't know if you already, the documentation is really good, but it's um as it's hard to follow, sometimes what it does, because there's so much magic in it. You know global methods and functions and things that try to be smart and.

B

Yeah, that was my experience too. It's you sort of just need to trust that it works and it's very hard to reason about yeah and.

C

Testing some stuff is really hard and you cannot really you know in in the ide step two stuff, because it's you know decorated somehow and it's anyway, that's how it is and a lot of people use laravel. So we should support it right. Great great.

C

um So I have more things even though.

B

C

Didn't take any notes, but I know what you know: what's basically on my table more or less so the most important thing which I will um put out and let's do since a long time, is basically the speed and the splitting of um or creating packages and splitting the two repositories into separate packages. So um my initial idea before I started my work is, I quickly finished the symphony, the rework um pr which I had there um and then once this is done.

C

I create the packages first for the contract people because it's easy to test and then do the same for um for the manual repository still my plan, though I might um might do the packet splitting before I've done a lot of testing in the past, so it's basically just implementing this stuff um and then yeah.

C

My my additional plan was to adding some more stuff on the tremendous plus. This will. I will postpone so first, basically do the split for the packages and um during the stuff we need uh by hand first, you know so later um there will be some magic if there's something some new package created in the controller preview, for example, to set up the split package, repository and composer or packages on entry and stuff like this. So but I think we can work on this later and just make the basic um functionality works um yeah.

C

So I will on the symphony pr I don't know. Actually I wrote a lot of custom code because this configuration thing and since for me, is kind of well it's hard to digest for all the um static package managers what's going on there and it's actually um yeah.

C

So I wrote a lot of custom stuff to make it easier and I actually started with the last um the complaints there were by. I don't know who that was fan or um hp stand or whatever, um but I think I will maybe postpone it because there's a lot of stuff to do it's kind of nice but um yeah.

C

So I will basically just dirty fix the issues by just um suppressing them and then make this pr work and I can do the other stuff later, which I still have a lot of open code on my site. So it's half finished, but the last half is a little bit tricky and not super exciting. So I didn't finish it.

D

Thanks for the update team, I really appreciate it.

C

Yeah, so I will try to make at least the package splitting happening to for next week.

D

Wonder wonderful, oh we're happy to we're happy to be here with you to help in any way that we can, because it's really important.

C

Yeah sure, um but maybe we can you guys, can um update me on what the actual plans are for better release and things like that and what you have done in that regards.

D

So right now the plan for we, we don't have a a concrete plan for a beta release. We do have a bunch of issues that are linked and labeled as uh required for beta. So I think that we need to get all of the. We have seven tickets in there and those are the ones that we're aware of that are required for beta, but there may be more so if you have any uh input there, that would be really great. Otherwise.

D

I think that we're getting to a point now where we really do need to get more feedback, and I think, by putting this project in a beta state, we're going to get a little bit more feedback and that's a good thing and probably get a lot more contributors that way too, which is also a good thing. So I think that that's something that we can do and then part of the process when we go from the way that the open, telemetry php, the open, telemetry maintainers group works, is they will have.

D

Somebody from the group do a code review of our repository and uh give feedback, and then, from that point we can go to a release candidate and do a couple iterations on the release candidate, and then we can do our general availability release. So I think that we'll need to burn through these tickets that are in the required for beta open.

D

Our uh you know create our first beta release, solicit feedback from both the other, both the maintainers from other sigs and from the public and then release candidate and then general availability and then start working on metrics and logs.

C

Okay, um so who's gonna. Will this person be who's doing the code review.

D

So the one of the other maintainers from a different language will do it just because they found that that is helpful. You know that that person may not be. You know perfectly fluent in phd, but they've been perfectly fluent in implementing this library in another language.

D

So- and you know, they're all very, very good programmers, so they can sort of attempt to reason through the php and they also- and we also will attempt to find somebody who is php fluent to do it in that group, and I think we have. We have a lot of people who have had previous experience with php in that group. So I think we should be able to find somebody that can review that effectively. But that's something that I will ask for. I can ask for that in the maintainers meeting next week,.

C

Okay, let's hope um yeah one thing: uh brett, we should maybe in the very near future, have for a long, a planned meeting regarding the configuration and did you have any progress in this regard lately? No, I don't have any progress. Okay, then, let's just um pick up where we left where we wanted to have a meeting, and then we can talk through what we have and maybe or we maybe use the configuration from symfony just temporary. um Anything else would be too much work or too opinionated or something like that.

B

Yeah I'll take a note to follow up, because there was a proposal months and months ago in the spec to standardize configuration.

C

Yeah but yeah, that's why we basically stopped working on it. Yes,.

B

C

I think that never came to anything right. I don't think.

B

So but leave it with.

C

Me to chase that one up. Well, I mean anyway, we I don't think um we should or could wait on this to happen. If there are some changes, we can maybe incorporate them, but um we need to have a solution for that, because it will also make make it easier to work with frameworks and stuff like this. If you can just reuse configuration yeah, that's basically all the sdk and symfony bundle does at the moment, because there needs to be a way to configure the sdk.

C

You know, and so you just have it, you can have it as a dependency um and yeah. That's something we probably need in a lot of different frameworks and libraries as well. So yes and make this the other way um thing I was thinking about um is we need, and I don't think we have this correctly in place, so we need a way um that well essentially, it goes, but we have thing to think.

C

I think over that we need a way to for instrumentations to only run against the api, so they should not use well. They can use the sdk just to set up something, um but the dependency should be strictly on the api and it should do something but no break anything so just to put it um very simply so, um did you guys have a look or thought about that?

C

If we actually could do that or we maybe should create an example, because um at the moment we are way too focused on a lot of things on the sdk right, so um we're not really running the api so um yeah. Maybe we should look again at this if it's actually spec on client and how we uh that's wrong, what do you think yep.

B

Yep definitely um I have seen in like in the past couple of days there's at least one to do where you know we need to return and go up something um so that so that the api itself can can work without an sdk.

B

um So I'm pretty confident, there's there's a couple of things that don't work as they.

C

Should yeah? Okay, then we should look into this. Basically, if you depend on an interface um but the main issue, which is well, you can yeah okay. We should look into this, but basically you should um be able to just depend on api on interfaces which are defined in the api, and it should not break anything. If there's no sdk and if there's an sdk or another implementation, then you should make basically or be able to really instrument something so right.

C

So I guess that's the the short thing do not break if there's only the api or but no dependency on the sdk, and if it's there, then it can be used. Okay, then, let's find about what about this? um Do we want to? Can we create a ticket for this just so we keep track on that.

D

Yep, I will create a ticket for that: okay, cool.

C

D

The ticketman today apparently.

C

Well, you haven't, wrote much tickets in the last month. That's.

D

True, it was about time.

C

Yes, back on the on ticket duty.

D

B

You also volunteered before anyone else could.

D

C

C

One question.

E

How are you did you make any progress on the v3 um header thingies? Oh yes, I have made some changes. uh Sorry in a day or two I will disappear.

C

Okay right so um yeah, if you have any questions also, I should have more time now so feel free to ask me, and otherwise you know just create a pr and then you can work out, but um I don't think it's too complicated once you get into it right.

A

uh No, it's not so yeah I'll raise appear. You can.

C

Okay, cool, thank you um yeah and different things. What what do we do with the documentation issue?.

B

I certainly agree: we need to write a lot of it very soon. Yeah.

C

I mean the the ticket says. Well I mean it was changed a lot of in scope because um our documentation has been moved. Let's put it that way um and well. The ticket is kind of we have some documentation there. So um there's no real um target. You know what which we can aim at.

C

I think so how much documentation is enough, so there are some at the moment. So do you know what I mean? It's.

C

How can we say this ticket is closed or fulfilled.

D

C

Are the success.

D

Criteria that you're looking for came in.

C

Yes, definition of done basically.

D

C

For this one yeah.

B

Because it's very efficient for someone too yeah.

C

We've got someone new to.

D

Understand how it all works.

B

I think our existing documentation is really contributor, documentation.

C

um Yeah on the side- yeah not much there, it's basically just the um the basic um hello world thing, um but on the other, other languages don't have much more on the website so but it would be good, so you know at least have some bullet points which should be there, so we can mark it as done you know, we can probably further improve on the future, but um some documentation is not really. You know the criteria. Answer.

C

Sorry problem. That's.

D

C

You know what I mean.

D

C

D

Yeah, it's you need to have a subjective measure rather than an objective, feel oh yeah, that might be enough documentation isn't sufficient.

C

Yeah I mean we have some so.

D

Some is better than none. More is better than some exactly.

C

C

Yeah so oh era, okay, we can look at. I will have a deeper look and the other issues. I don't need to do it now. I will update myself.

D

Okay, if you have questions you can ask on channel and people I'll be happy to help you. However, you need it. I know brett you had some. You had some agenda items.

B

I did yeah just a couple of very quick updates um sort of side projects of open telemetry uh one was the roadrunner runtime. I worked with their developers to uh sort of test and and provide feedback on their open, telemetry implementation. um So that's all done and released and sort of. I could.

B

Yeah so under the hood it uses the go open, telemetry implementation, but um so the way it works is because you've got the roadrunner server and it will instrument the incoming request there.

B

um You know and wrap any middlewares of its own, that it runs and then um set distributed, trace headers for uh php to pick up so that you can have they effectively act as two separate components for distributed tracing.

C

ah Okay, so, basically, like you, have the fun proxy or something.

B

C

Yeah convoy or a site proxy, I wanted to say cool so um and does it you, how does it pass the trace information to the actually um to try.

B

C

Transparent header, but uh so it's the w c three.

B

C

C one: yes, all the only yes, okay, so, okay, let's go to keep in mind! um Okay, it.

B

Sounds cool yeah uh and the other one was psr22 um which fan wants to jump in and have a look there's a bit of activity. Starting in discord is where that's all happening. Okay, then I will have a look.

B

Yeah yeah. It's just really just started to pick up, probably the last day, um they're actually starting to to talk interfaces a bit um so get some progress happening. There uh you're welcome to jump in if you have an opinion or if you've already volunteered to do so too.

C

I'm I'm actually part of the team or whatever it's called yeah.

B

C

I'm officially a member of the of the organizations, that's, but I have to say that's the only thing I did in the last week accepting the invitation.

B

Yeah time to go and introduce yourself then sorry time to go and introduce yourself in the discord channel. Oh yeah.

C

B

C

Yeah I'm already in there, but I don't think I've said anything. I've been interested.

B

I can't, if you're across at all fine, I didn't think you were because I hadn't hadn't, seen you or heard from you. There.

C

B

Busy fair enough.

B

uh That that's all I had.

C

D

All right that was the last thing on the agenda. uh Anybody else.

D

Once going twice sold all right thanks for uh thanks for showing up today, everybody glad to have y'all here and we'll see you on the internet.

E

Bye everyone. Thank you.