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From YouTube: In the Clouds (E33) | The Journey to CIO
Description
In this episode of In the Clouds with Stu Miniman, we have a frank conversation with Red Hat’s new Chief Information Officer Jim Palermo. We will get to hear from Jim about his journey with Red Hat and what the technological landscape looks like as CIO for a growing company. A thought leader in his field, we will encourage people to send in questions so he can have the chance to address them live on the show.
Don't miss this insightful episode.
B
A
when
I've
done
interviews
for
for
many
years,
most
of
the
people
that
that
I,
usually
Target
when
I
think
about
my
audience,
is
that
you
know
they're
my
peers
in
the
IT
world
and
a
lot
of
those
are
on
the
track
to
maybe
eventually
become
a
CIO,
so
I'm
really
thrilled
to
have
as
my
first
guest
here,
Jim
Palermo,
who
was
just
you
know
in
the
towards
the
end
of
last
year,
named
the
CIO
of
red
hat.
So
we're
going
to
be
digging
in
on
the
journey
to
CIO
Jim.
A
B
A
Definitely
I'm
definitely
threatening
one
of
these
days.
I
will
do
another
in-person
interview
for
in
the
clouds.
We
actually
did
one
in
the
annex
right
next
to
the
tower.
Last
year,
my
manager,
Chris
Morgan
and
I
got
to
try
out
that
big
cave
that
they
have
of
the
studio.
Our
CEO
has
some
nice
video
setups
now
in
the
Boston
office,
which
is
right
where
I
am
so
I'll
definitely
take
advantage
of
those.
A
You
know
get
some
Boston
interviews,
but
it's
still
doing
these
over
over
the
camera
is
okay,
so
Jim,
you
know
the
journey
to
CIO.
You
know,
I
I
wondered
you
know
you
and
I
have
talked
a
little
bit.
You
know,
I've
looked
at
your
background,
you
and
I
both
have
you
know
a
lot
of
networking
in
our
backgrounds.
A
B
Well,
Stu
I
think
with
you
know
anybody
that
gets
in
into
this
role
that
the
the
journey
is
winding.
Shall
we
say
it's
it's
not
the
same
path
for
everybody,
I
I.
Think,
honestly,
if
I
was
to
say
that
I
was
you
know
my
aspirations
when
I,
when
I,
when
I
got
into
the
computer
science
field
and
started
my
my
work
career
to
be
CIO,
I,
don't
really
think
that's
where
I
thought
I
was
going
to
go.
B
I
think
that
I
was
passionate
about
technology.
You
know
started
as
a
software
developer.
You
know
and
then,
but
I
was
very
always
very
curious
about
different.
What
I
would
call
individual
contributor
jobs.
I.
Wasn't
that
enamored
with
the
whole
people
management
thing
when
you
first
come
out
I
it
felt
like
it
was
a
lot
to
deal
with
and
I
was
more
interested
in.
You
know,
in
my
mind,
getting
things
done
right.
B
So
I
I
spent
a
lot
of
time
in
lots
of
different
individual
contributor
roles
from
software
development
to
being
a
DBA
and
a
systems
engineer,
and
you
know,
and
even
gotten
much
more
involved
and
deeper
in
a
network
from
networking
from
an
architecture
perspective,
and
then
you
know
I.
Actually,
you
know
I
had
dabbled
in
some
people,
management
before
I
came
to
Red
Hat
came
to
Red
Hat
and
then
got
more
involved
in
in
making
that
making
that
journey
to
people
management,
and
you
know,
I
think
it.
B
B
You
know
to
expand
my
leadership
skills,
you
know
just
within
the
jobs
that
I've
had,
but
also
in
some
of
the
leadership
programs
that
I've
been
fortunate
enough
to
to
to
get
involved
in.
So
that's
all
culminated
in
you
know
opportunity.
You
know
meeting
you
know,
meeting,
meaning
demand
and
I'm
really
really
just
really
blessed
and
fortunate
to
be
in
this
position.
You
know
know
it's
really
exciting
to
be
a
CIO
and
an
I.T
company.
You
know
so
it's
not
challenging,
but
but
very
very
fun.
Yeah.
A
Jim
yeah,
it
is
fascinating.
You
know,
I've
been
with
red
hat
a
little
over
two
years
myself,
but
to
watch
some
of
the
journeys
internally.
You
look,
you
know
our
our
seat,
our
CEO,
you
know
started
in
I.T.
You
know
16
years.
You
know
not
not
a
straight
line,
but
you
know
to
to
that.
You
know
you
came
in.
You
know
in
that
the
it
organization
you
know
worked
your
way
up
through
a
number
of
Walls
12
years.
You
know
you're
sitting
in
the
c-suite
as
the
CIO.
A
B
If
you
have
to
so
Sports
big
big,
big
part
of
my
family,
you
know,
and
my
brother
and
I
were
you
know
very
competitive
athletes.
You
know
I
played
baseball
through
college
a
little
bit
afterwards
and
my
both
my
kids
and
my
wife
were
big
athletes.
My
daughter
was
a
Collegiate
soccer
player
and,
and
my
son
was
a
collegiate
baseball
player,
just
graduated
from
University
of
North
Carolina
really
recently
and
was
fortunate
enough
to
get
drafted
by
the
Colorado
Rockies
and
so
he's
starting
his
professional
journey.
B
I
think
he
has
a
little
more
upside
than
I
did
so
we'll
see
how
that
plays
out,
but
it
Sports
has
been
a
huge
part
of
my
life
and
I
think
it's
actually
really
been
a
big
part
of
having
a
better
recognition
of
what
creates
great
teams
and
so
I
I,
it's
a
it's.
It
will
always
be
a
big
part
of
me.
Yeah.
A
A
You
know
the
role
of
I.T
and
the
business
has
gone
through.
You
know
just
tremendous
transformation.
I
think
you
know
you've
been
at
red
hat
for
12
years.
You
know
12
years
ago
it
was
more.
You
know,
know
I'm
curious
from
a
red
hat
standpoint:
I
look
externally.
It
was
like
well,
it
was
often
a
cost
center.
Did
you
get
involved
with
the
product?
Absolutely
but
I
know.
One
of
the
projects
you
worked
on
was
red
hat
on
red
hat,
so
you
know
talk
a
little
bit
about
that
and
how?
B
B
B
You
know
if
you're
in
a
dog
view
drink
your
own
champagne
whatever,
but
the
point
being
that
when
people
are
really
trying
to
make
an
investment
from
an
I.T
perspective,
it
really
really
helps
to
hear
from
you
know
the
the
the
it
organization
that
that
is
responsible
for
implementing
it
in
your
own
in
in
the
vendor
itself.
And
so
when
we
talk
to
folks,
we
we
spend
a
lot
of
time
not
talking
about
the
product
capability
but
more
about.
What's
it
take
to
make
it
work
right?
B
What's
it
take
to
operationalize
it?
What
are
the
things
we
have
yeah?
You
should
be
thinking
about
the
good,
the
bad,
the
ugly
they
get
a
very,
very
objective,
Viewpoint
and
and
the
the
sales
of
marketing
team
has
been
great
about
letting
us
you
know
not
be
like.
We
don't
need
to
do
the
Kumbaya
speech.
They
really
want
to
hear.
B
What's
it
going
to
take
to
be
effective
right,
and
so
the
program
that
we
have
now
led
by
Jim,
strong
and
my
team
is,
does
a
tremendous
job
of
getting
the
right
folks
across
my
team
to
be
participating
in
in
those
conversations
with
with
customers.
So
that's
it
feels
really
good.
So
we
got
both
sides
of
the
equation,
we're
helping
to
drive
the
product
forward
based
on
our
usage
and
our
utilization
of
it,
but
we're
also
able
to
help
sell
it.
B
A
A
Can
you
give
us
a
little
bit
of
insight
as
to
how
you
know
public
Cloud
plays
a
role
into
I.T?
How
was
that?
How
did
that
adoption?
Look
like
you
know,
any
any
challenges,
or
you
know
key
learnings
that
you've
had
along
the
way
with
with
you
know,
we
are
both
a
partner
and
a
customer
of
you
know
a
lot
of
public
cloud
services.
Yeah.
B
I
think
it's
been
a
really
interesting
journey.
I
think
public
Cloud
was
you
know
even
five
or
six
years
ago
was
sort
of
a
blip
on
people's
radar.
There
was
a
little
dabbling
going
on
I
think
nobody
really
understood
how
it
fit
into
the
big
picture.
I
we
we
were
fortunate
I
mean
again.
Sometimes
this
opportunity.
We
were
kind
of
locked
into
sort
of
a
legacy,
on-prem
Arrangement,
you
know
five
or
six
years
ago,
and
and
we
really
started
to
consult
with
you-
know
Consulting
and
Engineering
around.
B
How
do
we
kind
of
Start
Anew
right?
How
do
we?
How
do
we
start
to
look
at
embracing
what
we're
selling
to
our
customers,
the
open,
hybrid
cloud
and
so
I
think
that
one
of
the
most
important
things
that
we
did
was
we
started
to
think
about
our
workloads
right.
So
we
think
about
his
applications,
but
we
like
to
call
them
workloads
because
they're
not
always
necessarily,
you
know
nice
and
clean
applications.
There
could
be
scripts.
B
There
could
be
all
kinds
of
different
things
that
run
on
on
infrastructure,
but
trying
to
get
a
better
sense
of
like
what
we
had
and
what
we
wanted
to
modernize.
And
what
do
we?
What
do
we
want
to
run
in
the
cloud
whether
it's
software
as
a
service
or
running?
You
know
our
our
customized
applications.
B
You
know
either
on-prem
or
in
the
or
in
the
public
Cloud.
So
I
I
think
you
know,
as
we
see
our
transformation
from
a
red
hat
perspective,
to
offering
our
software
as
a
service
in
the
public
Cloud
on
any
of
the
hyperscalers.
We've
been
looking
to
figure
out
how
we
can
Embrace
that,
and
so,
when
we
decided
to
move
out
of
our
Legacy,
you
know
kind
of
what
I
would
say
is
our
primary
Business
Systems
data
center
a
few
years
ago.
B
It
was
an
opportunity
to
reset
right
and
think
about
what
workloads
we
wanted
to
run
where,
depending
on
the
nature
of
their
reliability,
you
know
availability
requirements,
you
know
even
even
the
the
user
base
and
where,
where
where
they,
where
they
resided.
So
we
started
down
that
path,
and
so
we
we
created
flight
plans
around
and
working
with
all
the
different
stakeholders,
not
just
in
I.T,
but
you
know
we
obviously
run
applications
that
that
may
be
supported
outside
of
our
organization.
B
So
we
worked
with
all
the
stakeholders
to
kind
of
come
up
with
a
game
plan
of.
Do
you
want
to
you
want
to
use
this
as
an
opportunity
to
modernize.
This
is
an
opportunity
to
sort
of
rationalize
your
portfolio
and
not
move
this
thing
forward,
or
is
it
it's
still
something
that
we
want
to
keep
on
Prem?
For
you
know
a
variety
of
reasons,
usually
around
compliance
data
data
regulations,
Etc
so
and
then
also
looked
at.
You
know
areas
where
hey.
B
B
So
we
continue
to
utilize
that,
and
you
know
we
we've
been-
we've
been
really
focused
on
looking
at
getting
it
right
in
one
of
the
hyperscalers
first
before
we
start
to
expand
to
the
other
ones,
because
also
you
know,
as
time
has
moved
on
the
value
proposition
around
running
in
you
know
whether
it's
Amazon
or
Google,
or
Microsoft
or
IBM,
or
any
of
the
other
public
Cloud
providers.
We
want
to
be
able
to
broker
a
conversation
that
says:
hey.
We
think
your
workload
fits
best
here.
B
You
know
under
with
this,
this
type
of
a
stack,
so
we've
been
we've
been
kind
of
methodically
working
through
that,
so
we
are
truly
hybrid
Cloud.
Today
you
know
we
we
run.
Probably
if
you
look
at
our
business
critical
systems
that
are
not
software
as
a
service,
we're
almost
you
know:
50
50,
Public
cloud
and
on-prem,
which
is
pretty
impressive.
You
know,
given
some
of
the
Legacy
Legacy
software
that
we've
had
to
you
know
evolve,
but
it's
it's
been.
B
B
If
you
think
about
monitoring
and
logging
and
and
CI
CD
pipelines
and
things
that
support
agile
delivery,
we've
been
doing
I
think
a
pretty
good
job
of
looking
at
how
we
can
partner
with
some
of
the
other
vendors
that
are
not
red
hat,
to
try
to
create
a
a
very
easy
enablement
opportunity
for
our
development
teams
or
even
our
solution,
delivery
teams
to
put
their
workloads
in
this
in
environment
right.
So
we
want
to
make
it
seamless
for
them.
B
A
A
A
A
You
know
Red
Hat
products
or
you
know,
guidance
that
we
give
from.
You
know
the
Innovation
Labs.
You
know
because
one
of
those
things
you
know
we
we
as
humans
are
usually
awful
at,
is
you
know,
predicting
and
understanding?
What's
going
to
change,
so
you
know
it
sounds
like
you've
gone
through
most
of
that
transformation
and
you
know
reach
whatever
sort
of
you
know
steady
state.
You
know
we
ever
have
in
the
the
ever-changing
world,
but
you
know
yeah
any
kind
of
key
key
things.
B
I
think
there's
a
quite
a
few
I'll
try
to
hit
kind
of
the
high
points.
Dude
I
think
that
you
know
having
a
forcing
function
was
which
was
like
hey.
We
wanted
to
put
a
Line
in
the
Sand
hey.
We
want
to
be
out
of
this
environment
by
X
right
because
we
have-
and
we
generally
sign
up
to
you-
know
three
three
year
leases
on
in
our
data
center
environment,
so
we
knew
we
had
a
couple
years
to
kind
of
get
it
right
and
it
was
a
forcing
function
to
drive
that
that
prioritization.
B
However,
what's
not
that's
not
naturally
going
to
happen
for
everybody
right,
so
I
think
one
of
the
things
that's
real
important
is
that
you
really
look
at
your
portfolio
first
right.
So
one
of
the
things
that
we
we
focused
on
when
I
mentioned
the
flight
plans
is
we
really
went
portfolio
by
portfolio
and
also
we
looked
at
the
portfolio
relative
to?
How
does
that
workload
exist
today?
Right?
Is
it
a
you
know?
Proprietary
application
is
a
custom
application.
B
What
what
is
it
right
and
and
really
tried
to
help
drive
those
those
portfolio
owners
around?
How
do
you
what's
the
evolution
of
your
technology,
stack
that
that
that
supports
your
business
value
stream,
right
that
you're
that
you're
trying
to
you're
there
to
enable
right
and
that
drove
a
very
methodical
look
at
like
how
we
wanted
to
approach
each
of
the
applications
or
workloads
right
so
I
think
it's
real
important
to
have
a
structured
approach
around
this.
B
But
the
thing
is:
is
that
what
you
can't
do
is
just
go
say:
hey
I'm,
going
to
modernize
my
entire
application
inventory,
because
that's
just
a
road
to
nowhere,
because
it'll
be
just
there's
going
to
always
be
a
bigger
priority.
That's
gonna!
That's
gonna,
throw
your
plan,
and
when
you
create
these
giant
programs,
they
tend
to
they
they're
gonna
get
disrupted
because
business
happens,
things
happen
in
in
companies
and
it's
better
to
break
these
things
up
and
focus
on
where
you
really
have
an
opportunity
to
make
change
right.
B
So,
for
example,
if
your
business
process
is
changing
and
that
really
impacts
a
certain
portfolio
of
your
applications,
use
that
as
an
opportunity
to
look
at
hey.
Where
can
I
modernize?
Where
do
I
maybe
want
to
go
to
a
software
as
a
service
approach?
Maybe
I,
maybe
I
just
want
to
leverage
this
proprietary
application
in
the
public
Cloud,
because
I
get
a
better.
You
know,
total,
you
know
total
cost
of
ownership,
so
my
my
biggest
my
biggest
point
would
be
break
this
up
in
consumable
chunks.
B
Right,
don't
try
to
boil
the
ocean
and
the
other
thing
is
I.
Think
as
it
relates
to
our
product.
I
think
what
was
really
interesting
as
we
started
to
go
down
this
journey
is
that
the
integration
between
different
you
know,
parts
of
the
stack
whether
it
was
the
network,
whether
it
was
our
load
balancers,
whether
it
was
the
you
know,
open
shift.
You
know
our
development
platform
even
Splunk.
You
know
monitoring
platforms.
B
You
know
that
integration
and
how
to
create
that
we
created
we,
we
actually
probably
put
in
a
lot
of
you,
know,
requests
and
patches
and
to
our
engineering
team
to
sort
of
give
them
visibility.
The
things
that
other
customers
were
going
to
see
so
I
think
we
we
we
had
a
little
bumpy
ride
there
for
a
period
of
time
as
we
were
getting
started,
but
it
really
helped
the
engineering
team
understand
who
you
know
we
gotta.
We
gotta
resolve
that.
Let's
figure
that
out
right
so
so.
B
B
You
know
you
need
Architects,
you
need
bsas,
you
need
developers.
You
also
need
to
have
folks
that
understand
the
full
stack
right,
because
when
you
go
into
a
hybrid,
hybrid,
Cloud
environment,
you
know
we've
heard
that
devops
term
so
much.
But
you
really
do
need
to
understand
the
different
components
of
the
stack
and
how
they're
integrated
in
order
to
be
effective,
so
making
sure
you
have
the
skill
sets
to
drag
to
move
your
portfolio
forward
into
this
environment
is
really
important
too.
B
A
Yeah
so
Jim
you,
you
mentioned
a
hot
button
word
that
that
I
want
to.
You
know
poke
on
for
a
second
the
cloud,
many
of
the
services,
they're
proprietary,
red
hat
from
a
product
standpoint.
All
of
our
products
are
open
source.
How
does
you
know
it
and
red
hat?
How
do
you
deal
with
that?
I
mean
I,
know
I've.
You
know,
I've
seen
things
it's
like
you
know.
We
should
use
only
open
source
tools.
B
A
Know
we're
on
the
G
Suite.
You
know
we're
using.
You
know
different
things
out
there.
You
know
Splunk,
you
know,
there's
you
know
it.
It's
it's
tough
and
you
know
absolutely.
There
are
certain
things
that
you
don't
have
choices
on.
So
how
do
you
reconcile?
How
do
how
does
your
team
deal
with
the
the
general?
You
know
open
source
and
does
that
flavor
I.T
different
for
red
hat
that
it
might
you
know
most
organizations?
Oh.
B
Goes
dude,
that's
a
great
question
because
that's
that's
our
life
here
at
Red,
Hat,
I.T
right
so
and
you
know
other
two
other
companies
are
I'm
sure
are
trying
to
figure
out
like
how
do
you?
How
do
you
think
through
this
you
know,
I
like
to
I
I?
Think
Paul
Cormier
at
one
point
said:
you
know
we're
a
software
company
with
an
open
source
development
model
right
and
I.
We
we
really
lean
on
that
relative
to
how
we
think
about
how
we're
approaching
a
particular
capability
that
we
need
to
provide
right.
B
So
you
know
we
obviously
are
enormous
advocates
for
the
open
source
Community,
but
where
we
really
focus
our
energy
is
where
we're
trying
to
make
inroads
in
the
marketplace.
So
we
obviously
want
to
be
a
great
first
customer
of
our
product
right.
So
you
know
we.
We
spend
a
lot
of
time
really
working
to
figure
out
how
to
leverage
our
own
product
our
own
product
as
part
of
the
open
source
community's
contributions.
How
do
we
leverage
that
to
solve
business
problems?
So
we
start
there
now.
B
Obviously,
as
we
look
outside
of
what
we
do
as
a
as
a
as
a
software
company,
there
are
lots
of
different
open
source
Opera
options,
certainly
in
the
productivity
space
you
know,
and
in
other
areas
as
well
well,
and
what
we
try
to
lead
with
is
we
believe
that
there's
an
open
source,
alternative
right
that
we
believe
has
the
scale
and
the
capability
to
support
our
business
requirements.
We're
going
to
look
at
it
right,
but
we
don't.
We
don't
always
lead
with.
B
It's
got
to
be
open
source
right,
and
you
know
that
that
definitely
has
created
a
little
bit
of
consternation
in
the
company,
because
we
have
a
lot
of
passionate
people
around
open
source
and
a
lot
of
folks
that
are
contributing
to
things
even
beyond
our
own
product.
But
the
reality
is
we
have
a
business
to
run
here
and
we
have
to
make
sure
that
we're
providing
the
best
capability
to
support
the
need
right.
So
it's
a
combination
of
of
of
a
lot
of
different
things
that
go
into
that
into
that
decision
making.
B
A
Yeah
Jim
I'm
curious
what
your
thoughts
are
being
a
CIO
of
a
software
company.
You
know
I
I,
look
at
you
know
before
you
join
Red
Hat.
You
were
at
Cisco,
you
know,
Cisco,
historically,
very
much
a
hardware
company
they've
been
going
through
a
huge
transformation
to
be
more
of
a
software
company.
I
I
know,
especially
over
the
last
you
know,
five
years
or
so
many
Cloud
Acquisitions
aligning
themselves
they're
a
good
partner
of
ours.
A
B
Yeah,
no,
that's
another
really
good
question.
I
I
think
that
wow
there's
a
couple
different
angles
to
that
right.
I
would
say
that
you
know
we.
The
first
part
of
it
is
that
yes,
we
we
are.
We
are
definitely
helping
and
leveraging
our
products
that
are
being
moved
to
the
to
as
a
service
in
the
public
Cloud.
So
openshift
we
leverage
openshift
dedicated.
We,
you
know
we
we
leverage
ansible,
we
leverage,
Rel
I
mean
we.
B
We
leverage
all
of
that,
both
on-prem
and
in
the
in
and
in
the
public
Cloud
as
a
service.
The
other
thing,
though,
that
I
think
is
going
to
be
really
really
will
resonate
with
a
lot
of
folks
out
there
in
the
IT
world.
Is
that,
but
it's
it's
more
than
the
product
right?
It's
it's
like.
How
do
you
we're
we're?
B
And,
and
so,
when
you
start
to
think
about
what
that
means
from
a
a
back
office,
business
model
perspective
that
is
driving
us
to
think
about.
You
know
how
we
support
this,
not
just
from
a
customer
relationship,
management
perspective
or
even
a
you
know,
an
Erp
perspective,
but
what's
the
what's
the
nature
of
the
data
that
we
need
to
be
able
to
consume
from
the
hyperscalers
in
order
for
you
for
us
to
be
able
to
understand
how
our
consumers,
either
our
existing
business
or
potentially
folks
that
are
dabbling?
How
do
we
help?
B
It's
much
much
more
real
time
now
than
it
than
it
has
been
right,
and
so
we're
we're
going
through
that
that
Evolution
today,
you
know
with
with
the
with
the
with
the
the
office
of
the
Chief
Operating
Officer
office,
we're
all
part
of
one
big
chief
operating
office.
Now
I
mean
that's
great,
because
we
need
Global
process
transformation.
We
need
an
Enterprise
architecture
that
enables
that
we've
got
to
be
one
team
right
and
so
that's
been
a
real
change.
B
A
Awesome,
hey
I,
just
want
to
shout
out
to
those
people
listening
I
I
appreciate
any
questions
coming
in
I
thought
we
had
one
come
in
from
Switzerland,
which
you
know
just
I
think
Jim
addressed
kind
of
the
general
position
about
how
it
thinks
about
open
source.
Specific
open
source
projects
you
know,
might
not
be.
You
know,
Jim
might
not
be
the
best
person
for
that,
but
please
keep
the
questions
coming
so
Jim.
B
A
B
Yeah
wow,
I've,
I've,
I,
I
I
would
say
that
coming
into
this
role,
you
always
expect
that
you're
gonna
learn
a
lot
more
than
you.
You
ever
really
imagined
that
that
that's
going
on.
Obviously
you
know
had
a
chance
to
play
a
lot
of
different
roles
within
it
here
at
red
hat,
so
I
wouldn't
say
that
I
came
in
and
I
I've
really
anything
has
kind
of
blown
me
away.
Wow
like
I,
didn't
know
that
but
I
think
it's
just
I
I
sense,
just
a
tremendous
opportunity.
B
You
know
for
it
to
be.
In
the
you
know,
a
Cornerstone
to
you
know
the
transformation
of
our
business
right,
and
so
a
lot
of
my
time
right
now
is
spent
on
really
trying
to
understand
what
is
the
critical
path
for
us
from
an
Enterprise
architecture
perspective
that
we
have
got
to
make
inroads
on
in
order
for
us
to
be
able
to
achieve
the
business
transformation
that
we're
trying
to
right
in
conjunction
with
other
operating
teams.
B
That
need
to
be
a
part
of
that,
because
it's
not
just
about
technology.
It's
you
know
it's
technology
and
process,
and
people
and
change
management,
so
I
think
the
biggest
thing
you
know
for
for
for
me
right
now
is
as
I
strategize
with
my
peers
is
just
let's,
we've
got
so
much
to
do
it's
easy
to
get
overwhelmed.
So
what
we're
really
trying
to
do
is
really
Define
that
critical
path
right,
we're
on
a
two
or
three
year
Journey.
B
You
know
what
can
we
get
done
in
the
next
year?
What's
most
important
for
us
to
get
done?
Are
we
having
these
conversations
with
our
stakeholders
together?
Are
we
all
aligned
on
things
that
we
need
to
do
together
right
in
cy23
to
move
the
ball,
move
the
needle
forward
and
that's
where
all
my
energy
is
right
now?
B
You
know
there
are
obviously
a
lot
of
other
things
that
that
we're
concerned
about
obviously
data
compliance,
we're
trying
to
get
more
mature
in
those
areas
so
that
we,
you
know
we
we're
conscious
of
you,
know
some
of
the
the
challenges
across
the
globe
around
risk
and
and
data
and
data
risk.
So
those
are
that's
a
big
area
right
now.
B
The
other
area,
I,
would
say,
is
just
the
changing
nature
of
our
work,
our
Workforce
right,
the
the
the
nature
of
how
we
come
and
we
operate
today
right.
We
obviously
the
pandemic
has
created
a
complex,
really
thrown
a
wrench
in
how
people
operate,
and
then
you
know
when,
when
something
like
that
happens,
over
a
two-year
period,
people
change
their
Styles
change
their
approach,
so
we're
really
I'm
work.
B
We
work
very
very
hard
with
our
our
our
Global
real
estate
team
around
you
know
what
we
need
from
a
commercial
office
building
perspective.
What
are
the
types
of
capabilities
that
we
need
to
provide?
That
will
really
be
a
value-add
for
people
coming
into
the
office.
But
how
do
we
continue
to
sustain
our
services
and
our
products
that
we
need
for
folks
to
be
effective
remotely
right?
Because
folks
can
really
work
anywhere
these
days?
But
how
do
we
ensure
that
they
can
collaborate
and
coordinate
effectively
amongst
the
teams?
B
So
those
are
kind
of
the
big
three
things
that
you
know.
We're
really
focused
on
obviously
we're
always
in
incented
to
try
to
streamline
our
our
costs
and
our
you
know
be
as
efficient
as
we
can.
So
that's
a
big
area
that
I'm
looking
at
right
now
is
how
what's
the
what's
the
value
proposition
for
for
the
organization
going
forward.
Do
we
have
the
right
skill
sets?
A
Well,
Jim
could
just
the
team,
because
you
know
I
I
was
a
pandemic
hire
for
red
hat
and
understanding.
You
know
how
red
hat
dealt
with
remote
was
one
things
that
brought
me
to
the
company
and
I'd
say:
red
hat
was
good
and
red
hat
learned
listened
and
has
gotten
even
better.
You
know
over
the
last
two
years
so.
A
B
A
Maybe
at
home
I
actually
have
like
a
study
to
your
stream.
It's
like
those
balances
between
what
you
have
I
want
to
pull
on
a
thread
that
you
mentioned.
So
we
talked
about
the
the
change
that
I.T
and
what
I
loved
is
you?
You
really
helped
accentuate.
You
know
it
went
from.
You
know
a
cost
center
to
really
a
Cornerstone
and
a
driver
for
the
business
you
mentioned
data
and
the
the
challenge
we
all
have
is
there's.
A
On
the
one
hand,
I
need
to
worry
about
governance
and
compliance
and
all
of
those
new
regulations.
On
the
other
hand,
one
of
the
biggest
opportunities
we
have
is
to
leverage
data
and
analytics
and
boy.
You
know
I
see
some
of
the
internal
threads
we
have
about,
like,
oh
all,
the
hot
new
AI
things,
and
how
can
we
take
advantage
of
that?
So
you
know
those
you
sit
in
the
middle
of
a
lot
of
that.
So
you
know
one
of
the
definitions
it
used
to
have
when
I
was
on.
The
analyst
side
is
digital
transformation.
A
B
That's
part
of
the
overall
operating
operating
office
to
ensure
we
have
the
right
platforms
and
we
have
the
right
capabilities
that
we
need,
but
I
would
say
that
you
know
the
the
other
thing
that
is
definitely
emerging
is
that
a
lot
of
our
business
units
are
very,
very
focused
on
analytics
and
data
science,
and
so
our
ability
to
provide
some
enhanced
capabilities
in
that
regard
is
something
that
we're
focused
on,
because
we
want
to
let
we
want
to.
We
want
to
basically
teach
people
to
fish
right.
B
You
know
the
days
of
it
having
to
run
report,
and
you
know
and
is,
is
really
long
gone
right.
I
mean
we
really
just
need
to
be
able
to
offer
the
platforms
that
allow
folks
to
do
that,
but
we've
got
to
be
able
to
have
the
data
in
a
we
in
a
in
a
structured,
clean
way
right,
so
that
it's
reliable
so
that
when
folks
do
report
on
it,
there's
not
multiple
sources
of
truth.
There's
not!
You
know.
You
know,
you
know
20
different.
You
know
versions
of
the
same
thing.
B
B
How
do
we
get
that
information
to
the
right
places
and
then
how
do
we
create
the
right
data,
lakes
and
warehouses
for
folks
to
operate
on,
but
our
job
is
becoming
more
on
the
reporting
and
analytics
and
data
science
side
is
becoming
more
about
providing
the
platforms
and
the
capabilities
and
the
data
in
a
government
in
a
governed
structured
way,
so
that
folks
can
figure
out
what
the
actual
insights
are
through
the
report
through
their
own
mechanisms.
So
that's
that's
a
big
Focus
for
us.
B
It's
going
to
continue
to
be
a
huge
Focus
for
us,
and
I
can
say
that
you
know.
Even
when
we're
doing
larger
projects
and
programs,
we've
got
a
few
that
you
know
that
are
on
they're,
getting
ready
to
get
get
underway.
We
spend
we're
spending
less
time,
building
big
fluffy
business
cases
and
we're
we're
spending
more
time.
Thinking
about
what
are
the
key
kpis.
B
That
would
allow
us
to
know
that
whatever
we're
doing
whatever
change
we're
making,
we
can
measure
what
the
impact
of
it
is
right
and
again
sometimes
that's
just
and
that
takes
and
I
would
really
urge
people
to
spend
the
time
to
think
about
that
right,
because
you
gotta
have
a
Baseline
and
you
got
to
know
where
you're
going
and
you
got
to
be
able
to
measure
that
you're
getting
there
right
and,
or
course,
correct
right.
So
so
that's
driving
both
more
more
thought
I'm
around.
What
are
we
trying
to
achieve
right
versus
hey?
A
Awesome
so
Jim
last
question
I
have
for
you,
you
know
we.
We
talked
to
the
top
of
the
interview.
You
know
your
resume.
You
know
it
looks
like
a
like
a
steady
kind
of
Journey
towards
where
you
got,
but
we
know
it
there's
some
zigs
and
zags,
and
it's
it's
not
just
a
straight.
You
know:
walk,
walk
down
a
single
path.
What
what
advice
would
you
give
to
to
people
in
the
IT
industry?
Because
you
know
projects
are
way?
Shorter
technology
is
changing
all
the
time.
A
B
I
think
you
know,
as
I
mentioned
at
the
top
there's.
No
there's
no
one
path,
right,
I!
Think
everybody
knows
that.
There's
no
one
path
to
a
role
like
this
I
think.
The
key
thing
is
continue
to
be
curious.
You
know
where
you're
passionate,
where
you're
interested
dive
into
it
get
involved
in
it.
You
know,
learn
something
and
then
continue
to
challenge
yourself
to
grow
right.
B
I
think
the
other
thing
is
is
that
it
doesn't
get
easier
right.
I
think
there
I
saw
a
a
really
good
clip
video
clip
from
Cara
Lawson
former.
You
know,
basketball
player
who's.
Doing
a
lot
of
you
know
speaking
now,
and
she
goes
you
know
what
you
want
to
be
good
at
is
being
good
at
at
dealing
with
the
things
as
they
get
harder
right.
It
doesn't
get
easier
right.
It
continues
to
get
harder.
A
B
Going
into
them
right
and
and
ultimately
I
think
as
you
get
more
exposed,
and
you
get
more
experiences
it
will
it
will,
it
will
just
you'll
the
forks
in
the
road
will
become
clearer
right,
and
so
you
know
this.
This
kind
of
a
job
is
not
for
everybody,
but
it's,
it's
certainly
I
think
there's
so
many
people
from
so
many
different
backgrounds.
B
That
can
do
this
job
well,
in
my
opinion,
right,
so
it's
just
more
about
following
your
passions,
be
curious
and
don't
don't
don't
set
unexpected,
don't
set
unrealistic
timelines
for
yourself
relative
to
I've
got
to
be
here
at
this
point
continue
to
challenge
yourself.
If
you
continue
to
challenge
yourself,
then
it
will
lead
to
bigger
things.
A
There
I
think
it's
it's
a
great
thing:
I've
seen
it
bouncing
around
both
internally
and
externally
of
of
red
hat.
Because
yeah,
you
know
the
the
advice
you
give
is
you
know
you
are
responsible
for
your
career,
so
take
advantage
of
it.
You
know
I
I
used
to
earlier
in
my
career.
I
would
do
you
know
sessions
for
younger
people
and
the
challenge
is
one
of
my
favorite
quotes
is
from
Lewis
Carroll's.
A
B
A
You're
going
it's
going
to
be
really
hard
to
get
there
so
pick
a
path
choose
a
strategy
understand
course
correct.
It's
it's
a
little
bit
of
chaos
out
there,
but
you
know,
find
you
know,
peers
and
mentors
that
can
help
you
there
Jim
I.
Really.
You
know
awesome
conversation
really
love
chatting
with
you
here,
hopefully
we'll
cross
paths
with
you
person
in
one
of
our
buildings.
You
know
this
year
and
you
know
thank
you
so
much.