►
Description
In this episode of In the Clouds with Stu Miniman, we are joined by Joe Fernandes, VP and GM of Red Hat's Hybrid Cloud Platforms.
Red Hat is celebrating 10 years of its OpenShift product, and Joe has been there for all of it. Stu and Joe will also do a roundup of the cloud landscape for this final episode of 2022. A thought leader in his field, we will encourage people to send in questions so he can have the chance to address them live on the show.
---
Across industries and business sectors, senior leadership has to execute at an ever-increasing pace, and today's technology decisions must balance short-term risk with long-term gains. Join host Stu Miniman as he leads insightful and candid discussions with a broad spectrum of experts, executives, and decision-makers on diverse and hot technology topics.
Try Red Hat OpenShift: https://red.ht/3Haxapr
Follow us:
Stu Miniman https://twitter.com/stu
OpenShift https://twitter.com/openshift
Subscribe to Red Hat's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/redhat/?sub_confirmation=1
About OpenShift:
Red Hat OpenShift is an open source container application platform based on the Kubernetes container orchestrator for enterprise application development and deployment.
OpenShift on redhat.com https://red.ht/3JBaOia
OpenShift on GitHub https://github.com/openshift/
#RedHat #OpenShift #HybridCloud
A
I
am
your
host
Stu
miniman,
and
it's
hard
to
believe
this
is
the
final
episode
for
2022..
Thank
you
so
much
for
joining
us
really
happy
to
welcome
back
to
the
program,
actually
the
person
that
hired
me
into
red
hat
and
he
was
the
inaugural
guest
for
this
program
back
when
Chris
short
was
running
it.
A
Hopefully
we'll
get
him
rescheduled
in
January,
but
I'm
actually
really
happy
that
we
got
to
have
Joe
on
the
program
because
we
hit
an
important
anniversary
last
week,
it's
actually
10
years
of
openshift
and
who
better
than
Joe
to
be
on
the
program
you
know,
Joe
was
the
first
product
manager
for
the
product
he's
seen
it
all
there
from
day.
One
you
know
came
in
to
help
drive.
B
B
As
you
said,
we
hit
a
key
Milestone
so
10
years
ago
this
month,
I
was
feverishly
working
on
the
the
first
commercial
release
of
of
openshift,
the
openshift
Enterprise
1.0
release
and
yeah
so
past
couple
years,
so
after
sort
of
building
out
the
product
management,
work,
I
now
run
the
openshift
business
and
it's
actually
part
of
the
the
broader
hybrid
platforms
business
here
at
red
hat,
which
includes
the
rest
of
our
cloud
and
virtualization
portfolio,
as
well
as
our
our
middleware
runtimes.
So.
A
A
You
know
there
were
a
bunch
of
things
that
you
know
I
remember
from
kind
of
the
Solaris
days,
or
you
know
some
of
the
things
that
were
put
together
because
10
years
ago
we
weren't
talking
Docker,
we
weren't
talking
kubernetes,
you
know
it
was,
you
know,
cartridges
and
a
bunch
of
these
other
technologies
that
you
know
like
I'm,
not
a
Linux
person
Joe.
So
like
some
of
the
things
to
me,
was
a
little
hard
to
wrap
my
head
around
it.
A
Obviously
the
move
to
kubernetes
was
a
really
big
bet,
one
that
you
know
you
and
I
have
talked
about
a
number
of
times.
You
know
back
when
I
was
doing
the
cube
help
us,
you
know,
live
us
through
a
little
bit
of
that
10
years.
Some
of
the
the
key
decision
points
pivot,
Points,
that
that
you
and
the
team
made
to
to
help
make
sure
that
we
are
actually
still
talking
about
openshift
and
it's
relevant.
10
years
later.
B
Yeah
sure
yeah
again
I'll
try
to
rehash
the
entire
blog
here,
but
you
know
a
few
key
things
that
stood
out
for
me
or
you
know
that
I'll
always
remember.
First,
you
know.
If
you
go
back
to
10
years,
you
know,
Paz
was
still
a
relatively
New
Concept.
You
know,
Heroku
was
out
Google
app
engine
when,
when
that
was
you
know,
Google's
started
out
in
Paz
engine
yard,
those
those
you
know,
past
solutions
that
had
been
on
the
market
and
were
really
getting
a
lot
of
popularity
with
developers.
B
But
the
challenge
was,
you
know,
a
lot
of
Enterprise
organizations
couldn't
couldn't
consume
those
right
that
and
the
main
thing
was
because
they
had
a
lot
of
applications
that
just
couldn't
move
to
the
public
Cloud.
So
they
liked
the
agility
they
liked
the
model
and
want
to
bring
that
to
their
developers,
but
they
couldn't
do
that
and
that
that's
sort
of
where
openshift
was
born
was
you
know?
B
Can
we
take
this
really
great
new
application
development
model,
and
can
we
bring
it
to
Enterprises
in
a
way
that
they
can
consume,
which
means
hybrid
right
in
a
hybrid
Cloud
manner,
which
is
you
know
our
Mantra
right,
something
that
you
could
running
the
public
Cloud
for
apps
that
could
run
there,
but
could
also
run
in
your
data
center
or
really
anywhere
you
wanted
and
so
forth,
and
that
was
the
premise
behind
the
very
first
release
of
openshift
and
you
know
turns
out.
We
weren't
the
only
one
that
had
the
same
idea.
B
Cloud
Foundry,
which
was
launched
around
the
same
time,
was,
was
attacking
the
very
same
problem.
But
really
you
know
something
that
was
openshift
was
rooted
in
in
this
notion
of
the
hybrid
cloud
and
and
certainly
as
has
been
red,
Hat's
history
rooted
in
open
source.
So
so
I
think
that
that
was
sort
of
the
the
first
key
thing
is:
is
really
seeing
how
important
that
was
to
our
customers.
B
We
did
develop
that
organically
also
had
had
an
enact
done
a
small
acquisition
at
the
time.
What
ended
up
taking
hold
was
the
sort
of
the
organically
developed
code
and
that's
where
I
really
started
learning
more
about
containers
right.
So
the
the
code
that
we
had
developed
for
openshift
here
at
Red
Hat,
was
actually
based
on
Linux
containers.
B
They
really
liked
that
right,
the
efficiency
of
that
model
and
the
ability
to
manage
all
the
compute
in
a
pool
and
then
issue
quota
against
that
pool
in
the
form
of
containers
rather
than
you
know
what
most
folks
were
doing
at
the
time,
which
is
giving
developers
individual,
VMS
or
multiple
VMS
and
then
trying
to
manage
and
patch
and
update
that
that
was
really
key.
So
so
that
really
kind
of
struck
me.
B
As
you
know,
this
is
like
a
really
a
much
more
efficient
and
agile
way
to
get
the
compute
to
those
developers
that
need
it,
but
then
being
able
to
manage
it
at
scale
and
securely.
Then,
ultimately,
when
Docker
came
out,
you
know
that's
the
last
point.
I'll
write
out:
it
wasn't
so
much
about
containers
technology.
We
were
already
doing
containers
technology.
What
Docker
showed
was
there's
a
much
better
way
to
package
content
to
run
in
containers
right
and
you
know,
engage
with
developers.
You
always
know
they
always
want.
B
B
You
know
kubernetes
end
up
being
even
more
important
than
the
container
runtime
at
the
end
of
the
day,
but
that's
kind
of
where
it
all
sort
of
started
right.
So
the
notion
of
hybrid
Cloud,
the
power
of
containers
from
an
efficiency
and
Agility
standpoint,
and
then
the
importance
of
of
getting
getting
those
capabilities
that
developers
wanted
in
in
the
in
the
time
frame
they
wanted
it,
which
is
what
drove
us
to
Docker
and
ultimately
to
kubernetes
today
and
so
cover
a
lot
more
detail
around
that
in
the
blog.
A
Joe
it
it's
interesting
when
you
look
at
such
a
fast-moving
space
that
this
solution
set
plays
in
it's
pretty
easy,
for
you
know
a
single
technology
to
get
left
behind.
There's
there's
a
certain
leadership
principle.
I
used
to
talk
about
it's
you
know,
have
you
know
strong
beliefs
but
loosely
held
around
any
specific
technology.
To
be
honest,
like
Joe
I
was
at
the
first
dockercon
and
that
same
week
there
was
a
cloud
Foundry,
Summit
and
I.
A
This
is
pretty
important
and
they
kind
of
push
it
off
and,
like
we
know
better
well,
you
know,
containers
sure
it's
good
in
everything,
but
they
kind
of
put
it
as
a
sidecar
in
a
second
class
Citizen,
and
you
know,
I,
look
at
Red
Hat,
the
all
the
Technologies
come
from
communities
and
it's
a
tough
balance
as
to
how
much
do
you
have
an
opinionated
architecture
versus
how
much
do
you
have
to
be
flexible
to
take
into
whatever
tool
some
developer
wants.
So
how.
B
B
B
The
12-fact
model
awesome
model
for
for
a
new
Cloud
native
applications.
But
again,
if
you
had
existing
applications
or
applications
that
were
new
but
didn't
quite
fit
that
model,
they
became
a
set
of
12
opinions
that
maybe
ruled
you
out
from
running
things
in
a
Heroku
or
a
cloud
found
and
so
forth.
So
so
again,
even
precube
pre-docker.
We
were
a
little
bit
more
flexible.
We
did
allow
things
like
stateful
services
to
run
on
openshift.
B
It
was
much
easier
to
do
that
could
run
on
the
platform
and
then
kubernetes
had
models
for
you
know
attaching
storage
and
health
checks
and
scaling
and
so
forth
that
you
could
really
apply,
and
then
we
we
kept
pushing
the
envelope
on
that
with
Technologies,
like
operators
and
crds
and
so
forth.
So
so
that's
become
really
important
because
you
know
what
you
see
today.
Is
it's
not
just
Cloud
native
apps
that
people
are
running
in
in
openshift
and
kubrays?
A
You
know
there
was
that
that
General
discussion
is
like,
oh
well,
if
you're
doing
something
across
lots
of
clouds,
you
end
up
with
least
common
denominator
and
I.
Don't
want
that.
You
know.
Last
week
you
know
Amazon
re
invent
happened,
oh
there's,
another
100
announcements
cool.
Can
that
be
used
with
the
services
that
I'm
using
well?
Most
of
them
should
be
able
to
be
used.
That's
really
important.
There
was
a
recent
analyst
report.
A
I
saw
that
talked
about
just
the
spectrum
of
applications
and
how
you
know,
what
do
you
create
brand
new
and
what
do
you
you
know
refactor
or
modernize,
and
it
it
actually
showed
it
said
like
well.
Kubernetes
does
pretty
well,
but
openshift,
which
is
built
on
kubernetes,
actually
has
an
even
wider
Viewpoint,
because
we
can
pull
in
Virtual
machines
using
the
cube,
vert,
openshift,
virtualization
and,
and
we
work
well
with
the
cloud.
So
even
you
know,
on
both
ends
of
the
spectrum,
openshift
is
even
more
open
than
just
you
know.
Kubernetes
by
itself.
A
B
Yeah
sure
so
so
I
totally
agree
with
what
you're
saying
right.
You
know
again
coming
from
our
background
in
in
paths
and
application
platforms.
You
know
we
always
set
out
to
build
sort
of
the
most
comprehensive
application
platform
that
we
could
provide,
but
certainly
building
it
around
powerful
standards
and-
and
you
know
again,
kubernetes
and
what's
now
what
Docker
evolved
to,
which
is
the
oci
standard
for
container
runtime
and
image.
Those
are
sort
of
the
core
standards
that
openshift
is
built
on.
B
So
if
you're,
just
looking
to
you,
know,
run
containers
on
a
kubernetes
platform,
you
can
do
that
right.
Openshift
was
actually
the
first
one
of
the
first
commercial
kubernetes
platforms.
It's
fully
certified
and
kubernetes
compliant.
You
can
leverage
it
directly
from
Coop,
CTL
or
kubab,
as
you
can
do
that,
but
then
around
that
core
we've
built
a
whole
lot
of
useful
capabilities
for
doing
things
like
building
your
applications,
managing
your
applications,
doing
CI
doing
CD
doing
monitoring
logging,
all
those
other
things
that
kind
of
come
with.
B
You
know
application
development
and
application
management
that
you
know
if
you're
doing
it
on
your
own
or
leveraging
other
services.
You
may
have
to
sort
of
piece
together
yourself,
rather
whether
you're
piecing
together
in
the
public
Cloud
by
consuming
different
cloud
services
or
or
if
you're
doing
it.
You
know,
you're
building
your
own
from
the
community
bit
you'd
have
to
go,
find
those
those
pieces
of
software.
So
that
was
really
our
goal.
Is
you
know?
Openshift
is
a
cloud
native
application
platform
built
around
this
kubernetes
core?
B
It's
and
that's
sort
of
kind
of
carried
us
through
today,
so
where
we
are
today,
you
know
again.
Cloud
is,
has
only
grown
exponentially
since,
since
we
started
10
years
ago
right
so
so
the
the
percentage
of
of
our
customers
that
are
running
openshift
in
the
public
Cloud
much
higher
than
than
what
it
was
in
the
past
and
with
that
demand
for
cloud
services.
Right
people
don't
want
to
bring
their
own
software
and
self-manage
it
in
the
public
Cloud.
B
But
you
know
again,
these
are
large
Enterprises
that
you
know
a
lot
of
our
customers
they're
accelerating
their
move
to
the
cloud,
but
they
still
have
applications
that
that
they
need
to
run
their
data
center.
We've
seen
their
you
know,
it's
still
vsphere
or
VM
based
deployments
are
still
dominate,
but
a
lot
of
growth
in
openshift
on
bare
metal
environments,
particularly
for
performance,
sensitive
or
latency,
sensitive
applications,
but
also
in
general
to
reduce
costs.
B
And
then
you
know,
as
things
have
grown
in
the
public
Cloud,
more
multi-cloud
deployments,
more
customers
that
are
taking
the
openshift
and
saying
I'm,
not
just
going
to
run
it
on
Amazon
I
also
need
to
run
it
on
Azure
I
also
run
it
on
Google
right.
So
as
as
you
get
more
and
more
deployments
in
the
cloud,
you
know
more
customers
that
we
see
have
multi-cloud
strategies
have
multi-vendor
arrangements
and
the
ability
to
provide
that
consistency
wherever
we
run
has
been
great
from
a
business
perspective.
B
You
know
we
now
have
thousands
of
customers,
some
of
some
of
the
largest
clients
in
the
world,
so
some
really
great
success
stories.
A
few
of
them
were
featured
at
kubecon
in
terms
of
I
think
we
had
sessions
with
Ford
with
ing
with
Lockheed
Martin
so
forth
that
our
open
showed
Commons
Gathering
so
really
proud
of
the
customer
base
that
we
built
and
and
the
the
stories
about
the
really
cool
things
that
they're
doing
with
our
platform.
So
so
that's
sort
of
where
we
are
today.
Yeah
yeah.
A
Awesome
Joe,
and
you
know
that
maturation,
you
know
I
think
about
you
know.
One
of
the
customer
stories
that
was
told
at
Ray
invent
was
Boston,
University
and
I.
Remember
talking
to
Boston
University
about
a
partnership
that
they
had
with
red
hat
around,
like
openstack,
the
the
mass
open
Cloud
and
you
look
at
where
they
are
today
and
they're,
using
Red
Hat
openshift
service
on
AWS,
with
the
the
data
science
offering
to
do
like
learning
as
a
service.
A
A
We
talked
about
the
migration
from
Unix
to
Linux
and
how
that
all
went
and
when
I
look
at
the
cloud
Joe,
you
know
we're
sitting
at
you
know,
somewhere
20
to
25
percent
of
applications
are
in
the
cloud
when
we
look
out
the
next
five
years.
You
know
where
our
customers,
with
that
overall
Journey
when
you
talk
multi-cloud,
even
we're
still
very
early
with
any
applications
that
would
actually
span
across
Cloud.
A
Usually
it's
an
app
here
using
a
data
service,
there
sometimes
running
transactions
in
a
public
Cloud,
but
have
my
data
still
soared
in
the
data
center
so
that
modernization
of
the
application
portfolio
that
we
as
an
industry
as
a
whole
are
doing
what
what's
your
view
on
it?
And
you
know
where?
Where?
Where
does?
Where
does
our
group
fit
in
that?
Overall,
you
know
modernization
discussion.
B
Yeah,
thanks
to
it
and
I
know,
this
is
something
I've
probably
hammered
with
you
many
times
right.
We've
worked
together
on.
This
is
really
helping
folks
understand
what
we
mean
when
we
say
hybrid
Cloud,
right,
hybrid
Cloud,
certainly
is
about
the
the
hybrid
Cloud
infrastructure
that
that
we
see
customers
running
on
and
I
mentioned.
You
still
have
customers
running
in
the
data
center
running
in
the
public
Cloud
across
multiple
color
clouds
and
even
out
at
the
edge
where
you
know,
kubernetes
and
containers
in
constrained.
B
Edge
environments
is
growing
more
and
more
popular
and
we
have
customers
across
multiple
verticals,
either
doing
that
or
looking
into
doing
that
and
so
forth.
So
that's
that's
certainly
key
because
it's
really
hard
to
manage
this
sort
of
diverse
infrastructure
when
you
have
applications
running
in
all
these
different
places,
but
what's
even
harder
is
that
the
fact
that
the
applications
themselves
are
even
more
diverse
than
the
infrastructure
that
they
run
on
right
so
so
yeah,
you
know,
kubernetes
is
a
great
platform
for
cloud
native
apps
right.
B
If
you're
building
a
cloud
native
app
today
and
you're
not
running
it
in
containers,
you're
not
managing
it.
With
Coop
you're,
probably
an
outlier
right
and
so
forth,
you're,
not
necessarily
building
a
new
microservice
and
looking
to
deploy
it
in
a
VM
right,
but
that
still
represents
only
a
small
percentage
of
applications
that
you
know
large
Enterprises
have
maybe
it's
maybe
it's
10,
maybe
it's
20,
but
certainly
nowhere
near
100
or
even
50.
So
what
else
do
they
have
right?
Well,
they
have
a
lot
of
traditional
applications.
You
know
Legacy
applications.
B
If
you
will,
whether
they're
you
know
enter
your
applications.
Java
ee.net,
whatever
older
C,
plus
applications,
applications
running
on
the
Mainframe.
So
we're
focusing
a
lot
on.
You
know:
what's
the
modernization
strategy
for
those
applications,
how
can
we
help
bring
those
applications
into
a
cloud
native
environment?
And
sometimes
that
means
you
know
refactoring
those
applications
to
be
more
Cloud
native.
Some
of
some
of
them
may
may
lend
themselves
to
re-platforming
and
getting
some
benefits
from
a
containerized
environment.
But
that's
certainly
a
big
focus
of
ours.
B
Is
you
know
not
necessarily
just
can
we
help
customers
bring
more
applications
to
the
public
Cloud?
But
you
know,
starting
with,
can
we
help
them
make
those
applications
take
advantage
of
cloud
native
capabilities,
regardless
of
where
they
may
run?
On
the
other
side,
then
you
see
sort
of
continued
explosion
and
data,
and
and
folks
trying
to
get
a
lot
more
insights
out
of
that
data
through
whether
it's
analytics
now
ai
and
machine
learning
and
the
various
Frameworks.
So
that's
another
big
area
of
investment
of
ours.
B
You
mentioned
openshift
data
science,
which
is
our
newest
cloud
service.
Also
soon
will
be
available
for
self-managed
software
distribution
for
helping
organizations
like
Boston
University
do
you
know,
help
work
data
scientists
work
with,
like
you
know,
jupyter
notebooks,
or
build
out
ml,
ops-based
pipelines
and
so
forth.
So
that's
key,
but
even
just
core
enablement
of
kubernetes
itself.
B
I've
spent
a
lot
of
time
with
some
isvs
in
the
Telecommunications
vertical,
but
each
vertical
has
their
own
set
of
you
know
both
horizontal
isvs
and
then
isvs
that
are
specific
to
that
vertical,
and
many
of
them
are
moving
their
solutions
to
containerized
deployment
models
and
that's
how
they're
delivering
those
solutions
to
their
customers.
They
want
to
take
advantage
of
hybrid-based
deployments
and
the
capabilities
of
kubernetes
and
so
working
doing
a
lot
of
work
there
as
well
right.
B
So
so
the
Enterprise
world
is,
is
not
entirely
or
even
mostly
Cloud
native
from
an
application
standpoint,
and
if
we
can
help,
customers
realize
some
of
the
benefits
of
these
Cloud
native
Solutions,
while
working
across
these
different
types
of
applications.
I
think,
that's,
you
know
even
more
important
than
just
helping
them
run
across
the
various
infrastructures
that
they
need
to
manage.
Yeah.
A
A
We've
helped
enable
you
know
a
huge
growth
in
the
container
in
kubernetes
space,
for
you
know
hundreds
of
software
providers
to
be
able
to
package
and
manage
their
software
to
help
customers
with
their
modernization
and
then
all
of
our
our
Channel
and
go
to
market
Partners.
So
you
know
the
gsis
and
you
know
smaller
and
Regional
companies
that
help
with
that
that
overall
transformation-
because
this
is
this-
is
you
know
really
the
big
work
that
I
think
the
industry
as
a
whole
is
going
to
be
doing
for
the
the
next
five
to
ten
years.
A
B
Yeah,
so
so
we
expect
this,
you
know
seeing
what
we've
been
working
towards
is
just
kind
of
an
expansion
of
of
hybrid,
of
the
hybrid
Cloud
architecture.
As
I
mentioned.
You
know
some
one
of
the
things
I
alluded
to
was
Edge
right,
so
we
are
seeing
more
deployments
at
the
edge
and
and
one
of
the
advantage
I
always
tell
customers
one
of
the
big
advantages
that
red
hat
has.
B
B
B
You
know
an
embedded
use
case
around
aerial
drones,
running
micro
shift
so
that
they
could
deploy
models
to
those
to
those
drones
and
again,
Ai
and
Edge
really
go
together
right.
The
need
to
move
the
processing
of
the
data-
and
you
know
the
analytics
and
the
AI
that
you
know
the
machine
learning
models
that
you
want
to
run.
B
I
guess
that
data
closer
to
where
that
data
is
sourced
is
driving
these
deployments
so
I
think
that
that's
a
big
kind
of
deal
for
us
is
doing
that
and
then
so
expect
that
to
grow
also
expect
us
to
do
a
lot
more
in
some
of
these
application
areas
like
data
science,
like
AI,
machine
learning
and
so
forth.
We're
also
looking
at
newer
models.
B
Things
like
wasm,
and
and
what's
that
going
to
mean
for
for
container
platforms-
is
that
a
separate
platform
is
that
something
that
you
can
bring
in
to
an
existing
environment
like
kubernetes,
that's
a
big
deal
for
us
and
then
lastly,
it's
a
if
you
look
at
the
cloud
native
ecosystem
and
Mike
Barrett
on
my
team
has
a
great
chart
that
he
uses
I've
started
adopting
you
look
at
the
rate
of
change
in
the
kubernetes
repository.
It's
gone
down,
you
know
from
2016
to
today.
B
You
know,
there's
a
lot
less
change
in
kubernetes
itself
and
that's
a
good
thing.
That
means
kubernetes
is
getting
more
stable
and,
and
you
know,
getting
more
sort
of
focused
around
stabilizing
that
core,
but
then
what's
taken
this
its
place
is
the
hundreds
of
cloud
native
projects
that
have
sprouted
around
kubernetes
and
in
that
cloud
native
ecosystem.
Many
of
those
projects
are
projects
that
we're
involved
in
that
sort
of
really
add
value
to
a
a
container
or
kubernetes
based
environment.
B
Things
like
tecton
Argo
CD
for
for
get
Ops
things
like
istio
and
all
the
new
work
they're
doing
there
on
ambient
mesh.
And
what
have
you
serverless
and
so
forth?
So
there's
just
so
much
Innovation
happening
in
the
cloud
native
community
that
it's
really
sort
of
exceeded.
You
know
you
know
the
Innovation
that
we
saw.
A
B
B
You
know
how
do
you
deal
with
these
distributed
Edge
deployments
where
you
don't
have
sres,
you
have.
You
know
Hardware
that
rolls
off
a
truck
and
then
gets
plugged
in,
and
it
just
needs
to
work
right.
So
so
we
did
a
lot
of
work
around
zero
touch,
provisioning.
Around
sort
of
you
know
automation
around
our
bare
metal
deployments
and
so
forth
to
make
that
seamless.
So
that's
that's!
A
A
That
edge
stuff
is
great,
but
my
industry
is
not
there,
but
the
learnings
that
we
have
and
the
changes
that
we
make
architecturally
do
Ripple
through
what
we're
doing
or
you
know
in
the
cloud
I
know,
I
talked
to
some
of
our
sres
and
they're
like
oh,
we
found
something
in
Cloud
a
and
we
could
actually
fix
or
optimize
something
and
it
works
in
Cloud,
B
and
C
much
better.
Now
too.
So
it's.
A
B
Yeah,
absolutely,
you
know
again
open
shift.
You
know
kubernetes
in
general,
you
know
it's
very
horizontal
right.
It
applies
to
a
lot
of
different
verticals,
but
you
do.
You
know,
encounter
specific
challenges
as
you
work
with
individual
customers,
whether
it's
Telco
or
financial
services,
or
retailers
or
governments
and
so
forth.
So
so
a
lot
of
that
is
unique.
But
then
you
start
to
find
a
lot
of
commonalities
like
like
I
mentioned
right,
so
the
work
we
did
around
around
Edge
for
Telco.
B
So
Advanced
cluster
management
ACM,
which
is
you
know
the-
how
we
manage
clusters,
both
openshift
clusters
and
non-openshift
clusters,
as
part
of
our
portfolio,
is
critical
for
edge-based
deployments.
But
it's
critical
for
all
deployments,
because
we
see
customers
running
more
and
more
openshift
clusters,
kubernetes
clusters,
whether
it's
at
the
edge
in
their
data
centers
or
in
any
of
the
public
clouds
and
so
yeah.
A
All
right
so
I
want
to
expand
our
our
aperture
a
little
bit
and
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
cloud
Market
in
general
Joe.
So
when
you
look
at
the
growth
that
we
have
seen
in
the
cloud
Marketplace,
it's
been
amazing.
Just
you
know
the
huge
growth
you
know
Amazon
after
you
know
how
many
years
is
still
growing
at
30
percent,
but
the
last
time
we
had
a
global
downturn
was
really
before
we
entered
the
cloud
ERA
last
week
at
re,
invent
I
heard
you
know
AWS
CEO,
Adam
slipski
say
you
know.
A
If
you
want
to
save
money,
you
know
AWS
is
the
place
to
do
it,
which
has
never
been
the
pitch.
You
know
for
people
that
really
understood
Cloud,
it's
I
don't
go
to
Cloud,
to
save
I
I
either
go
to
Cloud
for
Innovation
and
to
accelerate
developers,
and
you
know
take
advantage
of
things.
But
you
know
the
cloud
is
not
a
you
know.
Oh
you're,
going
to
save
20
30
50
versus
what
you
were
doing
in
data
center.
There
might
be
cases
of
that,
but
it's
different,
so
I
guess
Joe.
A
You
know
I
know
you're
doing
2023
planning
you
look
at.
You
know
the
the
economic
impact
that
we're
having.
What
do
you
look
at
the
cloud
Marketplace
overall,
you
know
what
happens
if
you
know
these
companies
that
are
putting
billions
of
dollars
in
a
year
to
grow
out
their
Cloud
footprint
in
more
countries
in
more
regions
if
the
economy
slows
down
a
little
bit?
What
what
do
you
see?
What
are
your
thoughts
there
about?
You
know
the
hyperscalers.
B
Yeah,
so
so
I
think
you
know
if
you
went
into
public
Cloud
much
like
when
folks
went
into
virtualization
before
that
right.
If
you
went
into
that
thinking,
you
know
this
is
a
way
for
me
to
save
costs.
What
you
quickly
realize
is
that
the
benefits
of
the
agility
and
the
the
capabilities
that
you
know
to
provide,
self-service
and
really
you
know,
get
your
developers
going
quickly
much
more
important
than
just
you
know.
B
The
bottom
line
cost
savings
because
it
generated
revenue
on
the
top
line
right
and
I
expect
that
to
continue,
but
certainly
as
we
move
into
you
know,
a
more
difficult
economic
climate
or
some
would
say
we're
already
in
in
that
climate.
People
do
focus
on
costs
and
I'd
say
it's
not
just
the
cost
of
the
infrastructure.
B
It's
also
the
cost
of
putting
all
these
pieces
together
right.
You
know,
I,
think
you
know
one
of
the
things
that
folks
noted
from
AWS
last
week.
Is
it
wasn't
just
about
announcing
a
bunch
of
new
Services.
It
was
a
lot
of
announcements
around
how
to
integrate
different
services
and
use
them
more
easily
together,
and
that's
certainly
what
we've
tried
to
do
with
with
our
cloud
services
with
you
know:
openshift
on
AWS
openshift
on
Azure.
We
basically
we're
basically
trying
to
put
together,
as
I
mentioned
earlier,
an
integrated
application
platform.
B
So
you
don't
have
to
do
that
work
right,
because
that
also
costs
money
right
if,
if
you're
having
to
consume
all
these
different
services
and
then
on
top
of
that
figure
out
how
to
make
that
all
work
together,
so
you
can
get
your
job
done.
That
takes
time
that
takes
money,
and
so
I'd
expect.
You
know
that
certainly
created
opportunities
for
us
and
for
for
other
vendors,
like
us.
B
I
also
expect
that
the
cloud
providers
to
sort
of
continue
to
evolve
their
thinking
in
terms
of
how
can
they
put
you
know
all
these
hundreds
of
services
that
they've
deployed
over
the
last
decade
together
in
more
meaningful
ways
to
to
deliver
solutions
to
their
customers.
I'd,
say
I'd,
say
beyond
that
too.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
customers
can
leverage
Cloud
Innovation
wherever
it
happens,
to
run
right.
B
B
It's
consuming
other
services,
whether
it's
cloud,
services
or
or
services
in
your
own
premises,
and
so
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
always
easy
to
sort
of
run
in
that
manner,
because
you
may
be
running
a
mix
of
of
both
Cloud
infrastructure
and
higher
level
cloud
services
from
different
providers.
We
expect
that
to
continue.
So
how
can
you
do
that
in
sort
of
a
cost-effective
way
and
then
and
then
aspects
of
that?
B
How
to
account
for
that
and
really
manage
that
over
time
and
again
that
becomes
even
more
important
when
when,
when
money
gets
Tighter
and
so
forth,
so
so
you
know
we're
trying
to
do
more
work
there
around
providing
insights
into
customers,
Cloud
environments
and
and
help
them
sort
of
manage
their
costs
and
manage
sort
of
their
rollout
and
so
forth.
But
I
still
think
we're
in
the
early
days-
and
you
know
I
think
you
mentioned-
maybe
20
30
of
Enterprise
applications
actually
run
in
the
cloud.
I.
Think
many
more
will
when
we
talk.
B
You
know
this
time
next
year
over
the
next
few
years,
but
you
know
we
saw
that
again
going
back
to
Red
Hat's
history.
We
saw
that
same
Evolution.
You
know
when
we
first
introduced
Linux
to
Enterprise
data
centers
right
where
it
was
sort
of
the
new
thing,
and
now
it's
like
the
de
facto
thing
right
like
that's,
that's
what
folks
are
running
there
and
so
forth.
We
expect
the
same
thing
with
public
Cloud.
A
Lots
of
great
points
there,
Joe
yeah,
as
you
said,
there's
a
certain
stability
that
we've
reached
some
would
say
even
we're,
reaching
a
certain
commoditization
of
that
that
Baseline
of
kubernetes
itself,
you
know.
Sometimes
it's
not
a
bad
thing.
If
at
kubecon,
we're
like
the
kubernetes
piece
is
boring,
you
know
that
show
I
used
to
always
say
it's
kubecon
and
cloudnativecon.
A
It
should
be
the
cloud
native
piece
that
we're
really
talking
and
driving
kubernetes
absolutely
was
what
got
a
buzz
in
the
interest
in
a
lot
of
people
there,
but
there's
so
much
Innovation
and
change
still
happening
so
I
guess
yeah
Joe
final
question:
I
have
for
you,
you
know
it's.
So
we
turn
to
2023.
You
you
personally.
What
what
what's
got
you
excited?
What
do
you?
What
are
you
looking
forward
to?
As
as
we
look
to
turn
the
calendar
page.
B
First
I'm
looking
forward
to
taking
some
time
off
at
the
end
of
the
year,
I
think
if
we
all
are
red
hat,
it's
always
been
great.
We
do
an
end
of
year,
shutdown
and
recharging
spending
time
with
family,
that's
first
and
foremost,
but
yeah
I'm,
looking
forward
to
continuing
getting
out
there
and
engaging
directly
with
customers,
and
yet
this
has
been
a
great
year
in
terms
of
a
reopening,
but
you
know
I
think
there's
still
some.
B
You
know
the
events
and
the
the
customer
visit,
and
things
like
that
aren't
quite
back
to
where
they're
used
to
right
so
engaging
with
humans
and
particularly
engaging
with
other
redheaders
and
with
with
our
red
hat.
Customers
is
something
that
I'm
certainly
excited
about
and
then
also
excited
to
see.
B
You
know
we're
that
next
wave
of
innovation
comes
from
and
I
think
when
you
look
at
some
of
the
the
downturns,
whether
it
was
you
know,
2008
or
like
the.com,
boom
bust
cycle.
A
lot
of
new
innovation
is
born
from
these.
You
know
challenging
Economic
Times
as
people
look
to
new
ways
of
doing
things
to
you
know
whether
it's
to
be
more
efficient
or
to
you
know,
explore
new
opportunities
and,
and
so
I
think
we're
going
to
see
a
lot
of
innovation.
B
Even
though,
even
though
again,
the
economic
climate
has
has
certainly
taken
a
turn
to
become
more
challenging,
I
think
there's
going
to
be
a
lot
of
new
innovations
that
come
out
of
that
and
I'm
I'm
excited
to
to
see
where
that
goes
from
an
from
an
open
source
and
a
community
perspective,
as
well
as
working
with
customers
and
partners
on
kind
of
getting
their
thoughts
and
so
forth.
So
so
that's
what
I'm
looking
forward
to
and
and
yeah?
Oh
hopefully,
everybody
else
is
excited
for
the
new
year
as
well.
Yeah.
A
A
You
know
technical
sessions
that
I
know
people
know
and
expect
to
come
from
Red
Hat,
Summit,
Joe
and
I,
both
being
local
to
Boston
love
when
people
are
coming
here-
and
we
also,
you
know-
have
our
briefing
Center
so
I've
I've
loved
talking
to
more
customers,
yeah
I've
been
traveling
some
and
doing
a
little
bit
of
speaking
and
it's
great
to
see
the
people
in
person,
but
yeah
Joe.
It
feels
a
little
bit
more
like
the
Cadence
and
and
what
we
expected.
A
A
You
know
Red
Hat
always
engaged
with
the
community,
and
you
know
appreciate
everybody's
commentary
and
for
this
show
we'll
be
back
in
January
looking
to
keep
our
regular
bi-weekly
Cadence
we've
got,
you
know
not
only
Red,
Hat
People,
we'll
probably
do
some
forward-looking
things
with
some
thought
leaders
in
the
cloud
space.
If
you
have
suggestions
on
topics
or
people,
you
know
please
feel
free
to
reach
out
to
me.
I'm
really
easy
to
find
through
social
media
and
the
like.
A
So
with
that
we're
going
to
put
an
exclamation
point
on
in
the
clouds
for
2022
Joe
Fernandez.
Thank
you
so
much
for
joining
us,
and
you
know.
Congratulations
to
everybody.
At
red
hat
for
the
10
years
of
openshift,
I
I've
been
thrilled
to
be
part
of
it
directly
for
the
last
two
years
and
looking
forward
to
lots
more
in
the
coming
times
so
I'm
Stu
miniman,
and
thank
you
as
always
for
joining
us
on
your
journey
in
the
clouds
we'll
see
in
2023
thanks,
everybody.