►
From YouTube: In the Clouds (S1 E7) | Ashesh Badani, Senior Vice President, Cloud Platforms at Red Hat
Description
Red Hat’s senior leadership is having to execute at an ever-increasing pace. That means that today's technology decisions have to balance short-term risk with long-term gains. This unique series provides host Chris Short inviting thoughtful and candid discussions with each guest.
A
Good
morning
good
afternoon
good
evening
and
welcome
to
another
episode
of
in
the
clouds
with
red
hat
leadership
here
on
openshift
tv,
we're
joined
by
ashesh,
badani
senior,
vice
president
of
cloud
platforms
here
at
red
hat,
I'm
chris
short
principal
technical
marketing
manager
and
executive
producer
of
open
shift
tv
here
at
red
hat,
I'm
very
excited
to
have
ashesh
here
shesh,
please
introduce
yourself
to
the
audience.
Let
everybody
know
what
you've
been
up
to
the
past
few
months
too.
Please.
B
Cool
hey
chris
and
hello
to
everyone
else.
Who's
on
here.
My
name
is
predominance,
as
chris
said,
I'm
responsible
for
cloud
platform,
the
red
hat,
which
covers
our
open
shift.
Server
technologies,
openstack
virtualization,
both
existing
virtualization,
as
well
as
the
work
we're
doing
on
next
generation,
contain
native
virtualization
and
also
our
developer
tools.
So
I'm
excited
and
I'm
honored.
So
thank
you,
chris
for
the
opportunity
to
come
and
come
and
speak
with
you.
A
Well,
no
thank
you
for
joining
us.
Couldn't
ask
for
a
better
guess
to
be
honest
with
you
right
right
after
cubecon
2,
so
it's
even
better
and
we'll
talk
about
that
in
a
minute,
but
so
I've
done
a
few
of
these
interviews
now
and-
and
one
thing,
I've
kind
of
learned
is
especially
since
working
at
red
hat-
is
that
it's
very
rare
that
someone
is
coming
to
red
hat,
having
never
heard
or
worked
with
the
products
before
what
was
your
first
introduction
to
red
hat.
B
Yeah
interesting
to
say
that
right
because
I
used
to
work
at
some
microsystems,
you
know
before
I
got
over
red
hat,
you
know
all
through.
If
you
will
so
college
into
my
you
know,
time
and
sun.
You
know
sun
labs,
solaris,
you
know
sun
workstations.
I
mean
that
was
the
thing
right.
It
was
hard
to
get
time
from
unleash
the
most
amount
of
power
that
you
know.
You
could
see
and
there's
a
lot
of
innovation
right
happening
in
solaris
at
the
time
right,
so
you're
talking
about
zones
inside.
B
So
it's
funny.
We
talk
about
containers,
I'm
sure
we'll
come
around
to
that
right.
You
know
zones
and
solaris
d-trace,
zfs,
yeah,
just
just
a
whole
host
of
stuff
right,
so
you
know
kind
of
interacting
with
linux
and
then
so
red
hat
was
almost
like.
What?
What
is
this
right?
And
why
is
this
showing
up?
And
why
is
this
popular
in
financial
services?
When
you
know,
I
think
it's
sun,
I'm
sorry,
I'm
being
sort
of
completely
casually
here
right,
I'm
so
going
to
treat
this.
B
That's
just
you
know
it
was
almost
like
you
know.
Financial
service
was
some
of
the
biggest
customers
and
telcos
right,
I
would
say,
with
the
biggest
customers
for
for
sun,
and
it
was
almost
like.
We
are
running
at
huge
scale
right.
Obviously,
sun
was
very
focused
on
loading
up
these
these
boxes
right.
They
were
calling
e10k
and
e15k
yeah
and
and
right
running,
like
massive
server
problems
out
right
and
look.
B
This
is
the
time
of
the
vertical
scale
out
right
now,
the
horizontal
scale
out
absolutely
yeah
thinking
about
the
stinker
toys
or
showing
up
like
how.
How
would
this
ever
sort
of
you
know
anyway
I'll
stop
there
right.
So
my
introduction
to
the
linux
almost
sort
of
came
from
that
perspective
of
of
you
know.
B
B
One
thing
I'll
pause
to
say
right
is
you
know
when
I
came
to
red
hat
from
sun
the
thing
I
I
liked
a
lot,
it's
sort
of
you
know
some
you
know
felt
like
home
to
me
and
the
coming
to
red
hat
also
was
coming
coming
home
to
me,
mostly
because
the
cultures
of
both
companies,
you
know
are
were
so
similar
right.
The
this
sort
of
commitment
to
openness.
You
know
warning
drive,
innovation,
collegiality,
you
know
meritocracy,
you
know
sort
of
a
free
exchange
of
ideas.
I
mean
all
of
that.
B
You
know
I
saw
and
loved
it
at
sun,
and
you
know
I
see
the
same
at
red
hat
too
right
so
right
anyway.
Long
answer
to
your
short
question.
A
No,
that's
that's
great,
and
it's
it's
interesting
that
you
mentioned
things
like
d
trace
and
zfs,
because
those
things
have
are
are
coming
or
are
in
linux
or
have
been
ported
over
now
right.
So
it
shows
you
how
powerful
sun
was
that
we're
bringing
some
of
that
tooling
and
some
of
that
storage
capability
forward
right,
like
so
sun
did
some
amazing
things
and
solaris
brought.
I
mean
I
remember
running
this
old
solaris
box.
A
It
was
huge
right
like
it's
like
a
boat
anchor,
but
it
was
actually
connected
over
atm
right
like
the
old
fiber
links
and
this
it
was
just
a
beast
and
you
could
do
anything
on
this
thing
at
the
time.
This
is
the
early
2000s
and
it
was
just
like
if
we
had
any
network
problem
that
I
needed
to
troubleshoot.
It
had
a
tool
for
it
on
that
box
and.
B
Once
you
turn
it
on
it's
on
right,
you
know
I
remember,
meeting
customers
who
said
you
know,
I
haven't
done
a
restart
on
this
thing
before
he's,
like
I
don't
even
know
the
last
time.
I
did
it
right.
It
must
have
been
like
a
couple
of
years
ago
right
right,
so
so
that,
if
you
will
all
of
those
kind
of
characteristics
you
know,
I
think
maybe
there
was
a
point
of
time
right,
where
sort
of
the
power
open
really
shone
through
right.
B
So
on
the
one
hand,
you
could
argue
that
you
know
sun
recognized
that
with
the
work
you
did
in
java,
but
it
didn't
see
that
happening.
You
know
with
linux
right
and
how
you
start
something
off.
You
have
a
community
that
builds
on
it
right
and
you've
got
this
collaboration
that
takes
place
sun's
doing
it
with
java,
but
it's
not
doing
it.
If
you
will
in
the
score
business-
and
you
know
what
do
I
mean
in
the
business
press,
they
call
this.
The
innovator's
dilemma
right
that
sort
of
strikes
a
company
right.
B
So
java
was
the
new
space
for
it.
It
was,
you
know,
obviously
greenfield
feel
free
to
kind
of
you
know
work.
You
know
via
you
know
what
james
gosling
is
driving,
but
here
it's
an
existing
business
right.
You
know
with
this.
You
know
huge
if
you
will
installed
base
that
that
I
think
the
company
it
took
a
long
time
right
and
in
fact,
obviously
never
matched
completely
out
of
that
yeah.
A
I
mean
the
oracle
acquisition
did
do
some
things
to
some
that
you
know
we're
still
seeing
the
the
aftermath-
or
I
guess
the
after
effects
of
today
right.
So
let's
switch
gears
a
little
bit
right,
like
openshift
4.6
was
just
released.
A
B
Yeah,
so
I
started
running
the
openshift
group
in
2012.
You
know
which
in
style
time
is
eight
years.
You
know
feels
like
dog,
zeros,
serious
rights
yeah
nowadays,
exactly
especially
the
last
years
that
have
you
know
been,
I
don't
know,
factorial
in
the
dogs.
It's.
B
So
well,
it
might
not
look
super
old
I
am
but
but
when
we
started
openshift
you
know
there
was
a
a
big
push
towards
for
lack
of
a
term
I'll,
just
call
it
public
cloud
pass
and
I'll
and
I'll
tell
you
what
I
mean
by
that
right.
You
probably
remember
this.
Chris
azure
started
off
in
that
sort
of
pass
phase
right.
You
know,
azure,
you
know
started
there
and
then
I
think
started
recognizing
hey,
there's
a
lot
of
well
investment
to
be
done
and
money
to
be
made
on.
B
You
know:
infrastructure,
primitives,
right
and
sort
of
you
know
start
focusing
on
the
isps
a
lot.
You
know
your
google
app
engine
right
that
was
really
active
in
in
that
time.
I
guess
one
of
the
flag
bearers
in
that
space
at
the
time
was
heroku
right,
which
you
can
argue
right.
You
know
really
focused
amazingly
on
the
developer,
experience
and
there's.
B
You
know
still
much
to
learn
right
from
from
the
work
that
heroku
did,
and
so
when
openshift
started
that
time
right
there
was
a
lot
of
sorry
to
describe
it.
There's
a
lot
of
interest
in
saying
you
know:
let's
just
go
squarely
at
that
space
and
you
know,
as
I
came
on
board,
you
know
we
made
a
decision
within
the
team
to
say
you
know.
We
believe
that
there's
an
opportunity
to
take
that
platform
which
we
stood
up
and
we
were
running
and
at
the
time
running,
openshift
online.
B
For
you
know
thousands
of
developers
right.
You
know.
B
Yeah
and
then
we
said
we're
going
to
focus
on
starting
to
see
if
we
can
actually
get
on
premise
and
an
openshift
experience
on
premise
right,
so
that
if
you
will
was
sort
of
the
first
inflection
point
for
us
to
say
you
know,
there's
an
opportunity
for
online,
but
we
believe
there's
an
opportunity
to
get
this
technology
out
in
front
of
customers
right.
So
so
we
push
that
pretty
hard
started,
getting
some
some
customers
and
and
some
some
early
successes.
B
But
that
was
around
the
time
you
know
cloud
foundry
sort
of
you
know
came
along
as
well,
and
there
was
this
whole.
You
know
thing
made
up
the
openshift
for
cloud
foundry
or
some
other
alternative
out
there,
regardless
of
what
each
one
of
us
was
doing
right.
B
You
know
no
one's
really
going
to
commit
to
saying
I'm
going
to
adopt
this
as
my
platform
for
my
entire
instead
of
infrastructure
and
application
that
I
that
I
have
up,
and
so
we
made
the
pivot
to
docker
and
then
ultimately
to
kubernetes
at
that
time,
right,
which
you
know,
I
tell
people
all
the
time
that
in
hindsight
you
know
seems
like
such
an
obvious
decision
right
at
the
time
we
made
it
you
know
was
was
not
obvious
at
all
when
we
sorry
chris,
I.
A
B
Exactly
right,
chris
right
so
by
the
way,
when
did
you
join
red
hat
chris.
B
But
but
you
you
were
able
to
see
that
from
the
outside,
so
that
quarter
right
that
we
had
when
you
know
we
were
still
shipping
open
shift.
You
know
the
sort
of,
if
you
will
the
last
part
of
the
version
two
and
we're
preparing
you
know
version
three.
We
actually
actively
start
telling
customers
who
are
on
version
two,
that
there
is
really
no
future
path
for
this
we're
you
know
doing
a
complete
architectural
change
right,
you're
gonna
have
to
switch.
Those
were
really
difficult.
B
Conversations
right
to
be
had
right,
no
customer
likes
to
be
told,
hey
you
just
sort
of
you
know,
essentially
a
dead
ending
on
this
path.
We're
going
to
move
you
over.
That
quarter
was
probably
one
of
the
worst.
You
know
quarters
from
a
performance
perspective
that
we
had
and
then
we
you
know
we
knowingly
took
that
hit
right
and
if,
if
that
gamble
right
to
use,
use
the
term
to
use
that
had
it
paid
off
right,
you-
and
I
wouldn't
be
here
till
they're.
Having
this
conversation
exactly.
A
Yeah
and
like
I,
I
went
through
the
transition
right
like
it
was
some
pain,
but
we
were
fine.
You
know
we
came
out
the
other
end,
okay,
it
it
it's
one
of
those
things
where
sometimes
you
have
to
when
you
have
to
like
embrace
a
sea
change.
Essentially,
you
know
there's
going
to
be
like
you
can't
make
an
egg
without
breaking
omelets
right,
like
you're,
not
going
to
be
able
to
just
completely
shift
paths
onto
essentially
kubernetes
and
containers
and
that
route
as
opposed
to
gears
and
cartridges
right
like
it's.
A
You
know:
custom,
quasi,
proprietary,
kind
of
setup
versus
hey,
more
ubiquitous
and
more
user-friendly,
well,
not
at
the
time
user-friendly,
but
becoming
more
user-friendly,
more
universal.
I
think
which
drives
home.
The
hybrid
cloud
methods
that
we're
pushing
right
now
right,
like
kubernetes,
gives
you
hybrid
cloud
capabilities
that
you
never
had
before.
B
Yeah,
you
know
the
the,
if
you
will,
the
technology
bet
you
know,
on
the
one
hand,
was
was
in
an
all
all-out
bed,
but
it
was
based
on
things
that
we
knew
right
and
we
were
still
when
we
had
the
earliest
version.
Openshift
right.
It's
still
based
on
containers
right
linux
containers
right
with
you
know,
taking
a
linux
instance
and
slicing
it
up
right
and
using
c
groups
and
name
spaces
and-
and
you
know
essentially
partitioning
them.
B
I
mean
the
same
idea
that
we
carried
forward
into
docker
and,
of
course,
to
your
point
right
better
on
the
standardization
better
on
the
user
experience
and
a
whole
bunch
of
other
improvements
that
took
place,
and
maybe
even
more
importantly,
was
acceptance
of
that
right
amongst
an
ecosystem,
and
I
think
you
know
that
may
have
been
maybe
the
singularly
biggest
achievement
right.
That
came
out
of
that
right
for
and
you've
been
in
the
business
a
long
time
chris
to
see
a
technology
get
adopted
as
fast
as
docker
did
by
you
know
almost
everybody
right.
B
A
Yeah
and
you
know,
and
fast
forwarding
to
today,
you
know
we're
yesterday,
I'm
a
cncf
ambassador
right.
So
yesterday
was
a
challenging
day
for
us,
the
cncf
ambassadors,
because
you
know
we're
getting
ready
to
release
kubernetes
1.20,
the
next
version
of
kubernetes,
and
we
are
we,
the
kubernetes
community.
The
kubernetes
team
is
deprecating
like
docker
support
and
that
kind
of
scares
people,
but
people
don't
realize
that
docker's,
a
company
docker,
is
a
software
stack.
Docker
is
a
file
format.
A
It's
it's
all
these
things
that
are
just
put
under
this
one
term
and
it
scared
people
that
we
said
we
were
deprecating
things.
I
I
mean.
What
do
you
want
to
say
to
folks
about
the
upcoming
deprecation
and
kubernetes
of
docker
right,
like
it'll,
be
fully
out
in
1.21,
which
should
be
out
the
next
quarter
and
1.20,
I
think,
is
dropping
on
monday.
If
I
remember
correctly,
so
what
do
you
want
to
say
to
folks
that
are
concerned
about
docker,
deprecation
and
kubernetes.
B
Yeah,
so
christine
have
been
talking
about
this
a
little
bit
right.
So
look
so
this
this
happens.
This
happens
to
us
all
the
time
right
when
you're
so
deep
into
something.
You
just
assume
that
you
know
it's
going
to
come
out.
It's
going
to
be
a
non-issue
because
you
know
in
within,
if
you
will,
the
the
people
who
live
in
breathing
communities
been
talking
about
it
for
weeks
months
at
this
point
yeah,
so
it
doesn't
feel
as
big.
B
Yeah
exactly
right,
and
so
you
know
one
you
know
no
one
should
feel
like
you
know
they
must
try
to
pull
a
fast
one
on
them
other
than
the
fact
that
the
community
obviously
spent
a
lot
of
time,
moving
on
on
on
new
ideas
and
working
on
them,
and
it's
hard
to
sometimes
keep
up
right
so
kudos
to
you
chris
and
to
the
rest
of
this
tnc
ambassador
right
doing
us
did
a
great
job,
and
I
forget
the
name
of
the
lady
who's
been
you
know
so
tweeting
this
out.
B
I
think
I
retweeted
this
right
about
you're,
just
trying
to
explain
this
and
just
simple
laymen
lay
person's
terms
right
with
regard
to
you
know,
what's
taken
place
to
your
point,
chris
right,
one,
this
confusion
on
you
know
darker
the
inch
format
darker,
the
runtime
darker,
the
company
darker,
the
experience
I
mean
all
of
these
things
sort
of
seem
to
complete
together,
but
a
simple
analogy
that
that
I
like
to
think
of
and
use
right
is
a
little
bit
like
and
question.
I
talked
about
this
as
well.
B
Right
is
with
pdfs
right,
so
you've
got
a
pdf
and
you
can
choose
to
view
a
pdf
on
an
adobe
acrobat
reader
or
you
can
use
the
reader
that
you
know
is
available
to
you
on
on
your
mac
right
and
it's
still
the
same
pdf
yeah.
You
know
use
that
and
I'm
sure
there's
you
know,
I'm
sure,
there's
a
whole
bunch
of
other
tools
to
to
view
pdfs
right.
The
pdf
still
exists.
It's
as
is
it
works
as
well
with
your
you
know,
reader
on
your
windows
machine
as
it
does.
B
You
know
on
your
mac,
but
if
you're
on
the
mac,
you
don't
feel
compelled
to
say
well,
I
must
have
adobe
acrobat
reader
to
be
able
to
view
it
right
right.
So
this
is
almost
analogous
right.
Your
images
they're
in
you
know
they're
docker,
containers
they're.
You
know
following
the
oci
guidelines
specifications.
B
What
have
you
right
and
then
you
just
choose
a
runtime
to
to
actually
run
it,
and
you
know
you've
got
a
bunch
of
options
that
you
can
take
advantage
market.
You
know
we've
got
cryo
in
place
for
a
while
for
exactly
this.
You
know
change
that
was
coming
up
and
I
saw
I
I
don't
think
anything
else
sort
of
changes
right,
but
I
think
there's
a
little
bit
of
almost
this
emotional
reaction.
A
A
The
way
you
build
those
images
and
how
you
consume
them
can
be
different
right,
like
you,
can
build
with
docker
and
consume
with
kubernetes
fine
as
long
as
it's
an
oci
compliant
image
right-
and
I
think
that's
the
beauty
of
kubernetes-
is
that
you
have
all
these
different
compliant
images.
You
have
kata
you've
got
run
c,
you
got
c
run
and
they
all
do
different
things.
They
all
have
these
special
capabilities.
A
A
But
it's
it's
it's
time
right
like
we
need
a
fully
oci,
compliant
spec
to
be
the
standard
inside
kubernetes
right
and
having
all
these
shims
in
place
and
everything
else
that
are
hard
to
maintain
or
falling
off
the
the
the
maintainership
path
yeah.
It's
time
to
kind
of
make
the
switch
right
and
the
kubernetes
community
decided
to
deprecate
it
in
this
release.
A
Right
you'll
get
a
warning
and
then
the
next
release
it's
going
to
be
gone,
and
I
understand
that's
pretty
quick
right,
like
six
months
essentially
from
you,
know,
deprecation
notice
to
end
of
times,
but
this
has
been
in
the
works
for
a
while
and
a
lot
of
people,
I
feel
were
shocked,
like
you
said
emotionally,
because
they've
made
such
a
an
enormous
investment
in
themselves
to
learn
docker
and
to
understand
how
containers
work,
not
necessarily
the
container
run
times
right
like
they.
A
They
went
down
one
path
without
realizing
there
were
others
right
and-
and
I
think
that's
why
there's
a
shock
out
there,
which
is
fine,
you
know
you're,
you
have
every
right
to
be
concerned,
but
we're
here
to
tell
you
you're
gonna,
be
okay,
I
think
is
kind
of
the
big
takeaway.
B
A
A
A
The
the
kubernetes
blog
had
like
nine
contributors
yesterday
to
explain
this
process
and
how
it's
going
to
work
in
the
long
term-
and
you
know
jeff
gearling
over
on
the
the
management
side-
has
got
a
video
he
put
out
about
it
and
it
there's
it's
just
education
time
right
like
and
so
we're
gonna
amp
that
up
over
the
next
couple
weeks
and
months.
So
that
folks
understand
what
you
know.
B
A
Mean
to
your
point
earlier,
where
everything
was
docker,
docker
docker
for
a
few
years
right,
like
I'm
sure
it's
gotten
to
the
top
of
hacker
news,
it
has
made
its
rounds
and
I've
gotten
questions
on
twitter.
So
I
know
it's
it's
definitely
out
there.
So
you
know
switching
gears
here.
A
A
All
kinds
of
ways
to
do
that,
and
do
you
be
more
prescriptive?
Do
you
be
less
prescriptive
and
let
your
developers
kind
of
choose
their
own
tooling
right
like
when
I
think
about
you,
know
some
of
my
ops
positions
in
the
you
know:
20
teens
or
whatever
I
think
about
you,
know
vms
and
how
hard
it
was
to
get
a
vm
and
how
long
it
took.
And
now
it's
like.
If
I
have
my
own
namespace,
I
can
create
as
many
containers
as
I
want
up
to
you
know
any
threshold
that's
been
in
any
quota.
A
That's
been
put
in
place,
so
the
the
leadership
changes
that
are
need
to
happen
in
a
cloud
native
era
are
a
lot
around
culture.
I
say
I
think
right
because
we
have
things
like
get
ops,
where
you
know
everything
it
lives
and
get
it's
a
declarative
kind
of
state.
It's
a
process
that
actually
kind
of
implements
devops
for
you
without
you
knowing
so
those
culture
changes
I
feel
like
are
going
to
be
more
people-based
and
technology-based.
A
So
that's
where
I
think
leadership
comes
in
and
kind
of
has
to
guide
folks
and
say
you
know
open
your
mind
up
to
new
things
back
to
the
docker
conversation.
So
you
know
how
would
you
encourage
leaders
to
think
in
this
cloud
native
era?
I
guess
might
be
the
better
question.
C
B
It's
a
great
it's
a
great
question
right,
so
let
me
see
how
I
how
we
probably
break
that
down
the
first
thing.
I'll
start
with
is
empathy
right
because
you
talked
a
little
bit
about
you
know
culture
and
I
think,
before
you
even
get
to
culture,
just
this
notion
of
dealing
with
the
amount
of
change
that
people
are
going
through.
B
I
think
just
requires
us
to
show
more
empathy
right
to
each
other
and
I'm
not
saying
we
weren't
doing
it
before
right,
but
but
I
think
we
we
need.
You
know
as
a
as
a
community
just
as
humans,
even
right
to
to
do
that.
B
You
know
like
in
the
u.s
we
just
went
through
thanksgiving,
and
you
know
these
are
tough
times
for
for
a
lot
of
people,
but
for
a
lot
of
us
there's
much
to
be
thankful
about
right.
You
know
we,
we
work
in
roles,
a
lot
of
us
do
where
we
are,
in
some
sense,
relatively
shielded
from
much
that
goes
on
right.
We
can,
you
know,
for
the
most
part,
work
remotely.
B
You
know,
there's
many
others
who
are
putting
themselves
out.
You
know
at
harm's
way
yeah
things
there
are
many
others
restrict
sorry
like,
for
example,
and
I
don't
know
this
is
the
case
for
you
chris
right,
but
you
know,
we've
got
folks,
let's
say
within
the
company
where
there's
two
parents
were
both
working
and
they
have.
You
know
two
kids
under
the
age
of
four
right
now,
some
places
in
the
u.s
some
place
in
the
world.
You
know
some
child
care
has
opened
up.
Imagine
another
place
that
hasn't.
B
So
how
are
those
two
people
supposed
to
kind
of
you
know
get
through
this
time
right?
So
even
before
we
get
to
vms
and
containers,
and
you
know
all
of
that-
it's
just
like
how
do
you
support
you
know
or
make
sure
that
you're
able
to
support
people
who
perhaps
come
out
to
you
and
say
hey?
Can
I
work?
B
You
know
whatever
eight
to
twelve,
while
my
wife
takes,
you
know,
kills
two
little
ones
and
then
she'll
switch
over
and
then
I'll
come
back
around
at
night,
and
you
know
how
are
you
going
to
balance
that
so
you
know
I
I
so
it's
a
long
way
for
me
to
say:
look.
There's
a
lot
to
sort
of
just
he
said
with
regard
to
you
know,
provide
enough
empathy
provide
enough
flexibility,
provide
enough
opportunity
for
people
to
kind
of
you
know
address
all
these.
B
These
sort
of
changes
that
that
we're
going
through
now,
good
news,
perhaps
you
know
this
vaccine
comes
out-
is
super
effective.
You
know
rolled
out
of
scale,
and
you
know,
a
lot
kind
of
you
know
starts
resembling
more
like
it.
What
used
to
be
in
the
before
times
right,
but
but
we
still
have
some
time
to
go.
You
know
through
that
yeah.
A
B
C
B
You
know
it
feels
like
at
least
in
the
u.s,
because
you
know,
seemingly
at
a
second
wave
now
with
hospitalizations
and
so
on.
B
There's
the
ability
to
sort
of
you
know
be
mindful
of
kind
of
what
other
people
are
going
through,
and
then
that
leads,
I
think,
to
culture
right.
So
this
notion
of
that
you're
talking
about
with
regard
to
you
know,
are
we
culturally
ready
for
all
these
changes
that
have
taken
place
right?
So
in
the
case
of
a
company
like
red
hat
you're
used
to
working
remotely
right?
So
was
this
a
little
bit
harder
for
us
than
it
used
to
be
before?
Yes
right?
B
You
know
certain
things
right
to
the
users
of
in-person
meetings
and
so
on
right.
You
know
certain
parts
for
a
company
that
perhaps
you
know
needed
to
go
in
the
office
a
little
bit
more
yes,
but
just
culturally,
I
think
we,
as
a
company
are
pretty
comfortable
with
you
know,
distributed
teams,
people
working
from
wherever
how
you
kind
of
come.
You
know,
interact
with
them,
collaborate
with
them
and
so
on.
B
I
think
there's
a
lot,
that's
kind
of
going
on
with
other
companies
that
maybe
they
aren't
in
the
same
place
right,
so
they
are
almost
being
forced
to
embrace
this
transformation,
maybe
even
faster
than
they
would
have
liked
right.
So
there's
goodness
right
and
then
there's
some
what's
the
right
term
right,
it's
forced.
B
Yeah
yeah
right
and
so
the
the
reason
I
bring
that
up
is
so
who
is?
I've
started
with
someone
some
interesting
analysis
and,
I
said:
look
we
as
a
group
are
already
starting
to
talk
about
git
ups
and
there
are
people
that
haven't
fully
kind
of
gone
through
the
devops
cycle,
yet
right,
right
right,
and
so
sometimes
we
forget
right.
B
B
Other
customers
that
are
on
release
versus
right
that
are
like
whatever
right
six
versions.
You
know
at
least
right
behind
and
you're
trying
to
sort
of
help
them.
You
know
move
along
and
you
know
they've
got
a
whole
lot
of
reasons
why
they
can't
or
why
it'll
take
them
time
to
do
it,
and
so
I
feel,
like
you,
know,
we're
constantly
caught
and
kind
of
have
to
live
within
these
two
worlds.
Right,
on
the
one
hand,
right
we're
talking
about
devops.
Now,
I'm
starting
to
talk
about
get
ups,
trying
to
get
people
to
understand.
B
Why
that's
valuable
tools
we
start
providing
on
that
front
and
on
the
other
hand,
you
know
you've
got
this
whole
host
of
you
know,
folks,
who
are
forcibly
to
your
point
chris
right,
almost
sort
of
going
through
this
cultural
change,
and
I
just
now
embrace
saying:
hey
here's
what
devops
here's,
what
kind
of
this
new
way
of
working
can
bring
to
us.
A
Yeah,
I
think
back
to
some
of
the
positions
I
held
when
you
know
right
like
we
had
a
snowstorm
and
everybody
had
to
work
from
home
and
then
all
of
a
sudden,
the
vpn
was
so
saturated.
Nobody
could
work
from
home
right,
like
I
think
about
situations
like
that
when
all
this
started
was
just
like
how
many
organizations
are
going
to
be
in
that
position.
A
You
know-
and
I
imagine
it
was
a
lot
of
them
and
then
all
of
a
sudden
they
had
to
flip
a
whole
lot
of
gears
and
bring
in
a
whole
lot
of
different
services
that
they'd
never
used
before
to
make
work
work,
and
I
think
we're
part
of
that
right,
like
a
lot
of
the
services
that
are,
you
know
out
there
being
used
to
kind
of
fill
the
void
run
on
kubernetes
and
open
shift
and
there's
there's.
You
know
that
change.
A
A
The
same
thing
happened
with
devops
right,
we're
now
what
10
11
years
into
the
devops
phraseology
of
evolution,
whatever
you
want
to
call
it,
and
we
still
see
some
people
that
are,
you
know
doing
things
with
vms
and
kind
of
the
old
stodgy
way,
potentially,
there's
nothing
wrong
with
that.
If
that's
what
works
for
you
right,
like
there's
regulatory
reasons
that
you
have
to
do
certain
things
yeah,
but
then
there's
the
new.
You
know
kind
of
kubernetes
world
of
containers
and
operating
quickly,
and
there
was
you
know
a
report.
A
Last
year
that
said
the
lifetime
of
like
74
of
containers
was
less
than
30
seconds.
I
mean
that's
almost
serverless
right
at
that
point
right.
It's
pretty
wild
to
think
about
that
right
like
how.
How
would
you
like
to
spend
six
months
waiting
to
get
a
vm
and
then
in
six
you
know
seven
seconds,
it's
gone
right
like
you
can't
operate
like.
B
Yeah
yeah:
well,
it's
interesting
to
bring
this
up
right,
because
this
brings
up
a
thing
that
that
comes
up
for
me
often
times
in
customer
conversations
right.
So
you
know
we
launched
openshift
four
and
you
know
we've
been
trying
to
push
pretty
hard
with
regard
to
here's
the
value
of
over
their
upgrades,
and
you
know
how
this
can
help
benefit
you
and
you
know
we.
B
We
went
through
a
lot
of
pain
and
our
customers,
you
know,
went
through
a
whole
bunch
of
dealing
with
challenges
around
you
know,
upgrade
cycles
and
how
to
kind
of
manage
that,
and
we
learned
from
that,
which
is
why
we
did
all
the
things
we
did
in
four.
B
Having
said
that,
right,
this
behavior
change,
cultural
change
that
people
have
to
go
through
right
is
is
so
real
because
you
know
there
is
still
some
amount
of
you
know
I
get
it,
but
there's
still,
you
know
trepidation
to
allow,
for
you
know
you
to
have
clusters
that
can
upgrade
like
that
right.
So
you
know,
I'm
sure,
all
of
us
kind
of
went
through
this
a
little
bit
right
with
regard
to
when
you
had
your
phones
and
you're,
like
oh
man,
this
phone's
going
to
upgrade
and
things
are
going
to
go
nuts.
B
An
upgrade
cycle
here,
man,
this
thing's-
if
this
breaks
out
right
so
so
I
get
some
of
that,
but
at
the
same
time
you
know
what
I
find
is.
The
expectations
for
upgrades
are
different
when
they're
using
public
cloud
services
right
and
so
people
think
hey,
it's
okay,
that
upgrades
pretty
quick
and
you
know
they're
accepting
of
that.
C
B
Another
great
example
of
that
right,
which
is
you
know
in
the
past
you're
so
used
to
saying
I
have
you,
know
x,
y
and
z,
other
third-party
apps
from
svs
to
manage
them
to
monitor
them
right.
I've
got
you
know,
teams
of
folks
who
do
that
right
and
then
you
know
we
come
along
right
and
say
well,
the
community
is,
you
know,
sort
of
proposing
this
way
to
say
well,
maybe
not
100,
but
a
whole.
Bunch
of
you
know
that
kind
of
road
work
right
can
now
be
done
by
the
platform.
B
Harder
problems
that
only
humans
can
yeah
exactly
right.
You
know
unleash
their
creativity
right
their
interest
in
driving
it
and
let
this
kind
of
stuff
be
taken
care
of
by
this
distributed
system.
That's
starting
to
get
smarter
and
there's
a
lot
of
kind
of
you
know,
there's
a
you're
embracing
that
even
right
again
is
going
back
to
earlier
point
chris.
It's
the
the
cultural
sort
of
behavioral
change.
Right
that
you
know
we
need
to
go
when
I
get
it,
and
especially
at
this
time,
people
don't
want
supervise
of
change.
A
I
think
the
best
way
to
put
it
is
that
our
notion
of
safety
has
to
change
when
it
comes
to
software.
Right,
like
we're
always
taught
like
go
slower,
you
know,
slow
down,
be
safer
right
use
the
handrail
that
kind
of
thing
right
where
nowadays
the
faster
you
move,
the
more
secure
the
more
stable
things
will
become,
because
you
have
to
build
things
into
your
system
to
find
those
errors
on
the
fly.
A
You
know,
because
you're
not
going
to
be
able
to
detect
things
by
human
anymore,
right
like
that
humans
are
not
going
to
be
able
to
sit
there
and
be
like
oh
api
call
failed.
Let
me
patch
that
real,
quick,
no
you
got
to
have
a
system.
A
That's
going
to
test
all
those
and
you've
got
to
have
a
pipeline
of
sorts
to
build,
deploy,
and
you
know
maintain
your
your
infrastructure
and
your
software,
and
and
and
that's
where
I
think,
a
lot
of
people
kind
of
you
know
need
to
embrace
that
idea
of
safety
change
where
speed
is
safety
when
it
comes
to
software
and
compute
yeah
and
just
you
know
the
internet
in
general,
so
yeah
that
that's
my
take
on
that.
A
You
know
cubecon
just
happened
right
like
we
just
said
thanksgiving
and
q
comments
right
before
that.
Did
you
have
any
takeaways
from
kubecon
right
like
I
know
a
lot
of
people
you
know
talking?
Is
it
really
get
ops
if
some
of
it's
in
git
and
some
of
it
isn't?
You
know
like
there's
that
conversation
going
and
then
there's
you
know
several
conversations
about:
oh
cloud
native
storage.
A
What
should
we
do
kind
of
deal
right
and
that
that
world's
kind
of
solidifying
I
feel
like,
and
there
there's
there's
a
lot
going
on
right,
like
I
printed
off
the
cncf
landscape
this
morning,
just
to
give
people
an
idea
right,
like
there's
a
lot
going
on
in
the
ecosystem,
so
why
did?
What
did
you
notice
at
cubecon
this
year?
A
B
Funny
bringing
this
cncfc,
you
know,
I
picked
that
up
a
lot
of
times
right
when
I
have
cars,
because
I'm
like
exactly
look
guys,
we
live
and
breathe
this
wear
this
every
day.
We
can
barely
keep
up
right.
How
are
you
supposed
to
keep
up,
and
why
do
you
even
want
to
keep
up
right
so
right?
I
think,
there's
that
you
know
one
of
the
things
that
I
feel
is
standing
very
important
is
the
the
maturation
right
that
we've
kind
of
got
to
get
through
right.
There's
a
lot
of
innovation,
that's
happening,
which
is
fantastic.
B
The
question
is:
how
does
that
innovation,
you
know
become
more
consumable,
become
more
manageable.
You
know
over
period
of
time
right
so
we
talked
about
this.
You
know
people
are
older
versions
and
how
do
you
upgrade
it?
We
talked
a
little
bit
about
the
skills
are
required
and
the
behavior
change
right,
you're
used
to
working
a
certain
way,
you're
figuring
out
devops
and
how
git
ops
is
showing
up
right
up,
serverless
right,
it's
like
okay,
you're
doing
another.
B
Yeah
right,
how
do
I
do
that
people
talking
about
this
sort
of
hybrid
multi-cloud
sort
of
you
know,
notion
right,
take
advantage
of
trying
these
different
environments?
B
You
know
we
as
a
as
a
group,
have
been
pushing
pretty
hard
on
being
able
to
offer
the
same
platform
in
a
managed
fashion
as
well
in
a
bunch
of
different
environments.
Right,
so
you
know
run
it
at
scale
yourself
or
have
us.
You
know
manage
it
directly
or
on
behalf
of
on
in
partnership
with
the
cloud
provider
to
give
you
the
same
platform
same
abstraction,
regardless
of
you
know
what
infrastructure
you
choose
edge
has
become
an
interesting
area
for
us
right
lots
of
customer
interest
on
that.
B
Yeah,
so
I
mean
you,
you
can
argue
at
this
point
you
know
and
telcos
is,
is
a
good
one,
because
they're
still
making
this
pretty
hard
right.
You
know
you
can
almost
kind
of
see
the
generations
that
have
been
evolving
on
the
calico
front
right,
going
from
sort
of
a
hardware
based
environment
to
say,
hey,
look,
we
are
going
to
become
much
more
software
defined,
and
so,
if
you
can
argue,
4g
was
all
sort
of
you
know
vm
based
right
and
say:
look
how
can
I
virtualize?
You
know
my
capabilities
run.
B
You
know
the
network
functions
increasingly
as
virtual
machines
right
and
now
increasingly
for
5g,
for
the
most
part,
we're
seeing
telcos
wanting
to
do
that
in
a
containerized
or
cloud-native
fashion,
and
that's
that's
pretty
real
right
across
across
the
board
right.
We
see
it
in
north
america,
but
also
in
europe
as
well
as
carriers
in
asia
that
are
pushing
pretty
hard
right.
So
there's
a
huge
change.
B
That's
happening
on
that
front
with
regard
to
what
they're
running,
if
you
will
in
their
core
what
they're,
putting
out
the
edge
definitions
of
edge
right
is
fascinating.
Yeah.
B
So,
what's
an
edge
to
me,
maybe
not
edge
like
to
you
and
then
you
know,
for
you
an
edge
literally
is
I
don't
know
a
nest,
thermostat
right
right
right
right.
So
where
do
you
kind
of
you
know
draw
the
line
and
what
kind
of
capabilities
you
know
will
you
require
on
each
of
those
right?
What
are
the
constraints?
If
you
will
that
you
need
to
deal
with?
How
do
you
manage
you
know
those
environments
are
running
right.
B
B
That's
interesting
and
then
another
one
and
then
I'll
get
to
the
final
one,
which
I
think
is
almost
sort
of
the
most
controversial
one
but
the
another
one
is
just
developer
experience.
Oh
yeah
right!
So
you
know
chris,
you
you
flashed
up
the
cncf
chart
right.
You
know,
how
do
you
actually
use.
B
What
can
you
build
with
that
platform
or
run
better
or
deploy
better,
get
greater
value
from
that's
the
reason
why
you
have
this,
you
know
flexible
environment,
but
so
focusing
very
heavily
on
kind
of
you
know
how
we
make
it
easier
for
folks
to
talk
about
pipelines
or
how
you
make
it
easier
for
folks
to
actually
be
able
to
use
these
applications
different
services
that
are
coming
up
from
cloud
providers
or
you
know
others
out
of
the
marketplace.
I
think
I
think
that's
that's
really
important
right.
B
We're
spending
a
lot
of
time,
as
you
know,
chris.
Investing
in
that
that
area.
A
Right,
like
I
remember,
seeing
like
a
portable
4g
antenna
at
a
sporting
event
once
and
it
was
like
two
trailers
worth
of
stuff
because
you
had
a
generator
and
then
you
had
the
actual
like
cell
thing,
with
the
tower
sticking
out
of
it
and
all
this
stuff
right
now,
it's
a
you
can
almost
do
that
in
a
box
right
like
human
carryable,
to
an
extent
which
is
amazing,
but
that
just
tells
you
the
dramatic
change
that
has
to
happen
in
software,
because
you
can't
have
16
cpus
in
that
little
box
and
things
gonna
overheat
right,
like
you
got
limited
compute,
you
got
limited
storage,
there's
a
finite
amount
of
capacity.
A
You
have
on
all
your
edge
devices
out
there
and
you
know,
like
you
said,
for,
for
me:
I've
got
a
lot
of
edge
devices.
My
car
is
an
edge
device.
It
gets
updates,
while
it
sits
in
my
garage,
it's
a
ford
right,
it's
not
a
tesla,
it's
not
anything
special,
it's
a
ford!
I
live
in
detroit,
you
know,
so
it
gets
over.
The
updates,
just
like
openshift,
would
right.
So
the
idea
of
you
know
like
I
think
the
iphone
itself
has
kind
of
turned
everything
in
like
on
its
head.
A
C
A
A
platform
or
trying
to
build
that
platform
themselves
they're
in
the
business
to
do
something
else,
and
that's
where
the
cloud
providers
and
we
and
ibm
come
in
where
it's
you
know,
we
can
give
you
solutions
tailored
to
your
use
case
very
well,
and
our
customers
get
the
benefit
of
that.
And
then
you
know
we
often
share
our
learnings
in
the
product
itself.
B
Don't
see
it,
you
don't
have
to
interact,
don't
write,
and
so
then
that
allows
for
you
to
focus
on
all
the
other
things
right,
because
if
it's
not
invisible,
that
means
you're
dealing
with
it
in
some
way
and
if
you're
dealing
with
it
that's
taking
time
away
from
you,
that's
saying
resource
away
from
you
from
doing
all
the
things
that
really
the
platform
needs
to
make
right,
and
sometimes
I
feel
like
we
get
so
so
caught
up
in
trying
to
you
know,
have
the
platform
center.
It's
like
no,
really
everything
you
built
around.
A
For
people-
and
there
was-
I
was
reading
an
article-
you
know
I
was
talking
to
some
of
the
original
kate's
creators
and
like
they
all
thought
you
know,
kate
should
be
access
to
an
abstraction
layer
right,
some
other
api
that
you
would
talk
to
to
like
actually
talk
to
the
clusters
themselves
and
and
that's
where
we
need
to
move
right
where
everything
is
kind
of
protected
by
an
api
and
there's
you
know
good,
you
know,
system
call.
You
know
security
around
that
and
that's
how
your
developers
should
work
right.
A
They
should
just
simply
talk
to
apis
the
way
they
are
used
to
not
talking
to
databases
directly
or
talking
to
you
know.
You
know
web
servers
or
you
know
java
servers
directly
right
like
they
should
be
talking
to
apis,
and
that's
where
the
developer
experience,
I
think,
improves
with
kubernetes.
If
you
build
or
have
the
platform
that
works
as
well
as
an
open
shift
does,
for
example,
not
to
blog
our
product.
But
you
know
it
is
a
very
good
product.
A
In
my
opinion,
I
mean
I
work
at
red
hat
because
I
think
openshift
is
the
best
kubernetes
platform.
So
I
wouldn't
work
anywhere
else
right
now.
That's
for
sure.
B
And
look
and
chris
you
know
we're
also
always
constantly
trying
to
improve
it
right.
We're
always
you
know,
thinking
about
hey.
How
can
we
make
this?
You
know
better
more
usable,
more,
more
manageable
make
it
make
it
make
it
a
platform
for
the
entire
ecosystem
right
right,
okay,
so
coup
con.
One
final
thing,
though:
yeah
and
I
I
don't
know
if
it's
kubecon
specific
chris.
C
B
B
So
look
clearly
no
right
or
wrong
answer
many
answers,
but
oh
my
gosh
right.
You
know,
I
don't
know
about
you,
but
you
know
I
look,
I'm
guessing
most
people
get
zoom
fatigue
or
you
know
dealing
with
that.
How
do
you
kind
of
show
up
for
these
things?
How
do
you
interact
with
people
with
some
people?
If
you
know
english
is
not
your
native
language
right,
you
know
you're
just
commenting.
B
And
so
I
I
don't
have
a
solution
you
know
to
that.
But
especially
events
like
you
know,
kubecon.
I
guess
now
aws
reinvent
right,
which
is
you
know
if
you've
got
you
know
whatever
50
000
people?
What
are
the
numbers
are
right
that
are
showing
up
for
these
dream
force.
Right
is
another
one
that
right
good
point.
A
A
A
They
being
cncf
did
a
better
job
of
this
event
because
they
realized
there
was
a
need
for
a
hallway
track,
so
they
did
create
in
the
cncf
slack
a
hallway
channel,
there's
various
zooms
going
on
there's
a
lot
of
like
rambly
and
gather
towns.
These
little,
like
you,
know,
platform
games
where
you
could
kind
of
interact.
You.
C
A
Audibly,
I
think
that
helped
out
a
lot
of
folks.
I
think
it
helped
folks
learn
and
get
access
to
people
that
they
would
not
have
otherwise,
but
there's
no
silver
bullet
for
the
virtual
event
thing
right,
because
you
deal
with
time
zones
you
deal
with
people's
schedules.
You
deal
with
the
fact
that
okay,
your
employer,
is
going
to
send
you
to
a
conference
like
you're,
not
leaving
your
desk
right,
like
the
employer,
has
to
get
value
out
of
the
conference
just
like
the
attendee
does
right
like
and
the
con.
A
The
the
events
have
to
show
that
value
to
both
right
like
please
allow
your
folks
to
come
to
an
event.
If,
otherwise,
you
know
you're
not
going
to
get
any
bang
for
your
buck
right
and
you
know
sure
you're
spending
75
100
on
a
kubecon
ticket.
But
if
you
let
that
person
attend
the
events
or
the
sessions
that
they
need
to
go
to
to
answer
the
questions
that
they
have
now,
it's
free
knowledge
right.
A
Like
yeah,
you
paid
a
small
price
for
entry,
but
that's
a
very
low
price
to
a
very
high
amount
of
knowledge
that
you're
getting
access
to,
and
I
think
that's
the
value
proposition
of
the
virtual
events
say
what
you
will
about
the
various
platforms
and
everything
but
yeah
like
we
need
to
understand
that
a
a
back
channel,
hallway
track
needs
to
exist.
A
We've
got
to
understand
that
folks
need
a
way
to
interact
in
you
know
and
at
the
very
least
audibly,
preferably
like
we
are
face
to
face.
You
know
in
a
zoom
session
right
now
and
others
are
watching
us.
You
know
through
various
streaming
services
and
and
thank
you
all
for
joining.
I
really
appreciate
it,
but
yeah
like
that's
the
thing
is
we
have
to
show
value.
A
We
have
to
decrease,
friction
right
and
and
and
show
the
world
that
you
can
do
a
virtual
event
in
small
chunks
right,
because
that's
pretty
much
how
people
consume
things.
It's
either
they're
binging
it
on
a
friday
night
or
they're,
watching
it
in
a
30-minute
block
at
lunch.
Or
you
know,
that's
it's
it's
a
very
wide
spectrum
of
how
people
consume
content
and
it's
usually
one
or
the
other.
A
You
don't
get
people
in
between
right,
like
you
get
the
binge
watchers
or
you
get
the
people
that
watch
it
live
kind
of
deal
and
we
need
to
cater
to
both
personality
types
I
feel
like
and
and
cater
to
the
employers
that
are
sending
their
people
right.
We've
got
to
show
value
and
and
what
they're
gonna
what
their
employees
are
going
to
get
by
attending
that
conference.
A
B
Look,
I
mean
the
the
flip
side
of
this,
of
course,
is
that
it's
it
democratizes
participation
right,
because
of
so
many
people
who
could
normally
not
engage
in
or
participate
in
events
like
this
right
because
of
travel
expense.
You
know
whatever
it
is
right,
and
so
you
know
on
the
on
the
positive
side
right.
I
think
I
think
that
there's
that's
a
huge
benefit.
C
A
A
How
are
we
making
sure
that
openshift
helps
bring
value
to
organizations
both
large
and
small
right,
like
there's,
there's
a
lot
of
capability
in
openshift?
How
do
we
make
sure
that
our
customers
are
happy
right
like
what
are
we
doing,
and
I
know
this,
I
know
the
answer
to
the
question
right
like
I
know
that
there's
tons
of
teams
involved
in
selecting
you
know
the
right
technology
to
solve
the
problem,
but
the
problems
still
have
to
bubble
up
right
and
and
customers
bubble
them
up
in
various
ways.
A
A
So
there's
a
lot
of
opportunity
out
there
to
just
add
on
right,
like
and
now
with
crds
and
everything
else
like
what
is
it
like
to
have
to
make
some
of
these
hard
decisions?
You
know
some
sometimes
you
know
a
decision
is
not
going
to
make
a
customer
happy,
and
sometimes
you
have
to
make
that
decision
you
personally.
A
What
is
that
like
right,
like
we've,
democratized
compute,
so
much,
but
yet
there's
still
some.
You
know
we
have
to
choose
between.
You
know
this
run
time
and
that
run
time
or
this
get
ups
tool
and
that
get
off
tool
like
at
some
point
in
time.
We
have
to
make
a
decision
and
and
oftentimes
it's
you
know,
someone
inside
the
org
makes
the
decision
and-
and
I
think
you
have
to
stamp
it
with
the
seal
of
approval
at
times.
A
B
Yeah,
this
is
what
stuff
want
to
close
on
chris,
because
you
often
don't
know
if
it's
the
right
or
wrong
decision
until
it's
almost
too
late
right
right,
there's
a
famous
line
that
I
think
is
jeff
bezos,
someone
who
who
who
says
this
says
you
know.
I
think
I
think
it's
him.
You
know
he
gets
on
a
conference
call,
and
you
know,
has
some
some.
You
know
blood
adoption
of
some
area.
They've
invested
in
and
financial
analysts
are
congratulating
him
and
he's
like
wow.
You
guys
cannot
join
me
today.
B
You
should
have
congratulated
me
three
years
ago
and
I
made
the
decision
to
go
down
this
path,
because
you
know
we're
here
today
because
of
what
we
all
decided
as
a
group.
You
know
back
then
exactly
yeah
right.
So
so
so
this
that
you
know
notion
of
you
know
you
make
a
decision
right,
it
germinates.
It
gets
to
a
point
and
then
you
hope
it's
the
right
one
for
whatever
period
of
time,
right,
6,
12,
18
months
down
the
line.
B
So
so,
there's
a
little
bit
of
a
leap
of
faith
right
that
we
take
based
on
on
the
on
on
the
available
information
that
we
have
and
our
prediction
for
the
future.
If
you
will
so
sometimes
you
go,
you
know
have
whatever
they'll
call
strong
opinions,
weekly
held
mm-hmm
right
or
right,
because
and
even
even
when
it
comes
to
our
products
right,
hey!
B
You
know
to
your
point
right,
we'll
we'll
give
you
an
opinionated
path,
but
the
same
time,
if
you
don't
like
our
opinion,
we
should
be
able
to
at
least
allow
for
some
change
in
that,
for
you
to
say
yes
use
jenkins.
Instead
of
you
know,
techton
right,
you
know
it's
fine
with
us
or
we
give
you
source
to
image,
but
if
you've
got
your
own
way
of
doing
it
right
we're
happy
to
support
you
on
that
or
you
know
any
one
of
these
right.
I'm
sure
istio
will
be
another
one
right.
We're.
B
I'll
be
using
this
or
you
know
something
else
for
service
match.
So
so
you
know
all
of
these
right.
You
know,
there's
a
balance
to
be
had
between
the
you
know,
integrated
experience
that
we
want
to
give
you
and
then
the
bar.
We
want
to
integrate
integration
that
we
allow
or
enable
right
for
you
to
plug
in
to
that
right,
and
you
know,
I
think
kubernetes
its
community
is
pretty
good
about.
You
know
whatever
csi
or
cll.
You
know
just
other
ways
to
keep
extending
out
to
plug
it
in.
B
I
look
at
operators
actually
as
giving
you
a
bunch
of
different
opinions
or
alternatives
to
things
right.
So
so
we
think
a
lot
about
that
right
to
ensure
that
we're
making
decisions
that
allow
for
those
paths
to
continue
sort
of
being
opened
up.
So,
while
we're
making
some
choices
for
you
other
places,
we're
giving
you
enough
flexibility
for
you
to
make
your
own
choices
or
to
replace
one
of
our
choices
with
your
own
and
then
add
it
to
that
right
is
just
trying
to
be
super
customer-centric.
B
I
mean
you
know
this
chris
within
our
group.
Right
I
mean
we.
We
take
you
know
our
sort
of
attention
to
customers
really
highly
right.
It's
something
that
that
we
spend
a
lot
of
time
on
as
a
group
and
then
being
able
to
just
share
some
really
cool
stories
that
are
out
there
like.
For
me,
the
latest
one
that
that
you
know
is
fascinating
to
me.
Is
this
one
with
this
company
based
out
of
latin
america?
B
Is
this
financial
services
group
got
a
digital
banking
license
for
spain
and
they
went
from
conceiving
the
idea
of
building
the
digital
bank
to
actually
so
planning
a
design
all
the
way
to
prod
and
and
bringing
a
checking
account
to
market
in
four
months
right
and
put
that
on
an
open
shift.
B
So
to
me,
that's
amazing,
right
and
now
you
know
being
able
to
go
and
say
now,
we're
gonna,
add
additional.
You
know
products
and
services.
You
know
increasing
their
developed
productivity
being
able
to
allow
services
faster.
Now,
they're
saying
we're
going
to
take
advantage
of
a
hybrid
cloud
run.
Some
stuff
in
a
data
center
run
some
other
things
that
that
they
want
to.
On
on
a
public
cloud,
I
mean
a
lot
of
new
opportunities.
Are
open
up
for
that?
B
Absolutely
you
know
almost
to
go
from
a
standing
start
to
you
know,
sort
of
a
business
that
in
the
past
would
be
like.
Oh
my
gosh,
that's
a
super
regulated.
You
know
strategy
business
right,
it's
incredible,
so
being
able
to
kind
of
get
that
kind
of
feedback
from
those
customers
who
are
doing
these.
You
know
really
sort
of
you
know
to
our
earliest
point.
B
A
Absolutely
well
we're
out
of
time.
Today,
sir,
I
really
appreciate
you
coming
on.
I
really
appreciate
everybody
out
there
watching.
Thank
you
so
much
ashesh.
This
has
been
an
enlightening
conversation,
so
I'm
hopeful
that
our
users
can
watch
this
in
the
future
and
and
kind
of
understand
where
we've
been
and
where
we're
going
and
that
we
have
their
best
interests
at
heart.
Is
there
anything
you
want
to
say
kind
of
parting
word
wise
to
everybody
out
there
watching.
B
No,
I
just
want
to
say
thank
you,
chris
and
obviously
to
everyone
else
watching
chris.
You
did
a
remarkable
job
with
this
right.
We
talked
about
democratization
earlier
right.
You
do
the
same
thing
here
right
with
openshift
tv
right,
instead
of
bringing
it
out
as
far
out
as
possible,
sort
of
creating
great
amount
of
interactivity
and
collaboration,
and
what
better
time
than
now
to
be
doing
this
right.
A
Thanks
to
everyone
yeah,
thank
you
so
much.
I
appreciate
that.
Thank
you,
everyone
for
watching.
In
two
weeks
we
will
have
the
very
famous
matt
hicks
on
so
stay
tuned
for
that,
but
coming
up
next
is
devnation,
so
I'm
gonna
say
goodbye
here
and
let
devnation
take
the
airwaves
and
you
all
have
a
great
day
and
stay
safe
out
there.
Everybody
super.