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From YouTube: In the Clouds (S2 E4) | Stu Miniman
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A
B
Chris
I'm
doing
fantastic.
I
have
not
been
getting
up
quite
as
early
as
everybody
for
the
european
cubecon
show.
So
you
know
I'll
probably
look
a
little
bit
more
bright-eyed
than
you
do
right
now,
but
no
thank
you
for
joining
having
me
on
and
great
my
inaugural,
you
know
guest
thought
on
openshift
tv,
so.
A
B
All
right
so
look,
you
know
we
we'd
love
to
have
these
debates
in
our
industry.
I
personally
try
not
to
you
know.
I
live
through
the
great
cloud
wars.
I
have
the
scars
to
do
it,
so
I
I
do
hate,
arguing,
semantics
and
everything.
That
being
said,
I
am
a
fan
of
the
oxford
comma.
If
you
want
to
you
know,
if
you
say
on
premise,
I
will
you.
B
C
B
Is
a
crab
cake,
a
cake
you
know
so
is
cheesecake
a
cake.
Well,
it's
in
the
name.
So
it's
one
of
those
funny
things
like
you
know
everything
that
I
you
know
for
a
while
and
I
would
grow
in
my
garden
and
I
say
oh
look
at
these
wonderful
vegetables
and
you
go
look
up
the
ontology
and
you're
like
what
the
heck
cucumbers,
tomatoes
and
all
these
things
are,
are
all
fruits
and
did
you
know
a
strawberry
isn't
actually
a
berry.
B
So
you
know
it's
these
things
that
you
look
at
and
you
say,
okay,
so
it's
cheesecake
a
cake
not
by
the
classic
definition.
There's
there's
really
not.
You
know
it
doesn't
have
the
composition
of
a
cake
right.
Is
it
a
pie?
Well,
pie
is
traditionally
really
related
to
the
crust
and
it
really
kind
of
fails
some
of
those
things.
Oh
yeah,
it
might
actually
be
a
tart.
You
know.
Oh,
you
know,
tartlette.
B
B
Is
it
you
know?
Probably
it
could
be
argued,
it's
a
custard,
so
I
will
say
my
wife
makes
a
wonderful
new
york
style
cheesecake,
it
is
deadly.
I
I'm
a
fan
of
cheesecake,
I'm
okay
with
fruit
or
you
know
chocolate
in
it
and
if
I
go
to
the
cheesecake
factory,
I
will
be
happy
to
share
a
slice
when
we
are
back
allowed
to
be
in
places
and
sharing
food.
Like
I
mean
in
2021
it's
one
of
those
things
that
you're
like.
Oh,
my
god,
we
used
to
do
that.
A
A
It
is
a
hybrid
dessert
indeed,
yes,
because
I
like
to
think
of
it
as
a
cake,
but
I
actually
looked
it
up
and
it
is
officially
a
pie,
but
if
I'm
sure
you
could
find
contradicting
articles
to
that
so
yeah
so
you're
these
two
minimum,
most
widely
known
for
not
being
at
red
hat.
Surprisingly,
you
have
a
history
on
the
cube
and
I'm
curious.
You
know
the
cube.
Star
joins
red
hat.
What
are
you
up
to
these
days?.
B
Yeah,
so
you
know
right,
I
I,
I
joined
red
hat
a
little
over
six
months
ago,
after
10
years
being
with
the
cube.
So
in
case
any
of
the
audience
doesn't
know
the
cube's
known
as
the
espn
of
tech
started
back
in
2010.
It
was
how
do
we
take
kind
of
a
live
mobile,
video,
two
events
and
we
did
hunt
we've
done,
hundreds
of
shows
the
cube
is
still
going.
B
The
cube
was
supporting
kubecon
europe
this
week
it
was
at
red
hat
summit
with
us
last
week
and
I
was
one
of
the
hosts,
so
it
was
a
crazy
wild
ride.
It's
one
of
those
things.
You
know
I'm
an
engineer
by
training.
I
I
I'm
a
technologist
at
heart,
how
I
ended
up
in
front
of
a
camera
talking
about
those
kind
of
things.
It
must
have
been
the
hair.
B
B
I
actually
helped
recruit,
like
you,
know,
hosts
and
guest
hosts
and
loved
doing
it
had
a
great
time,
john
dave,
the
whole
team
there
had
a
ton
of
fun
and
yeah
just
in
2020
like
so
many
other
people,
a
lot
of
things
change,
I
re-evaluated
some
things
and
what
just
was
time
for
me
to
make
a
move.
So
that's
what
brought
me
over
to
red
hat.
A
B
Yeah
no
you're
right
and
it's
interesting
because
you
know
have
I
done
some
videos
since
I've
been
over
yeah,
hopefully
some
of
the
audience
caught
red
hat
summit.
I
moderated
a
couple
of
panels
with
a
bunch
of
the
you
know:
general
managers,
I've
done
some
other
videos
internally
and
some
externally.
B
B
What
was
nice
is,
you
know
joining
any
new
company,
it's
like
okay.
How
can
I
contribute
immediately
and
everybody
was
like
hey
this
paper,
this
presentation,
this
thing:
can
you
tear
it
apart?
You
know
what
a
customers
really
think
what's
actually
happening
out
in
the
world
right,
you
know.
How
do
we
make
sure
that
we're
not
in
our
own
little
echo
chamber?
So
I've
done
a
lot
of
that
and
you
know
living
in
the
community.
A
Well,
that
that
brings
us
right
into
the
next
question
right,
like
that
community,
that
mark
that
market
landscape
for
kubernetes,
especially,
is
an
ever
evolving
picture
these
days.
How
do
you
even
go
about
assessing
like
open
shift
against
these,
like
hundreds
of
other
potential
like
container
orchestrators
right
like
there's
so
many
now.
B
A
B
And
you
know
here's
what
I'd
say.
I
watched
this
space,
I
I've
been,
you
know,
been
in
the
open
source
community
for
a
long
time.
I
did
the
openstack
shows
for
years.
I
did
kubecon
for
a
bunch
of
years
and
you
know
there's
a
you
know.
I
even
said
a
few
years
ago.
You
know
this
kubernetes
thing
it's
just
going
to
kind
of
get
baked
in
there
and
you
know:
will
it
matter
so
much?
You
know
I
listened
to
clayton
gave
in
his
keynote
at
cubecon.
B
He
said
you
know,
we've
been
talking
for
a
couple
of
years.
You
know.
Kubernetes,
hopefully
is
getting
boring
and
that's
good,
but
boring
does
not
mean
that
it's
completely
undifferentiated.
So
what
I
saw
out
there
is
yes,
there's
kubernetes
everywhere
every
cloud,
every
platform
every
vendor
in
the
environment.
You
know
supports
or
integrates
in
kubernetes,
but
that's
often
where
they
stop.
B
You
know
one
of
the
sins
back
in
the
open
stack
world
was
you
know
things
like
okay,
every
storage
vendor
supports
it,
but
they
support
it
a
little
bit
and
they
didn't
really
do
that
much.
How
do
we
actually
go
cloud
native?
How
do
we
take
advantage
of
these
opportunities?
What
does
that
even
mean
right?
B
And
you
know
it's
not
just
about
okay,
hey
containers
are
really
cool
and,
of
course,
you
know,
linux
has
a
very
strong
play
when
it
comes
to
containers,
but
you
know
how
am
I
really
architecting
environments
to
do
what
to
build
applications?
You
know
this
is
really
where
my
applications
not
only
live,
but
I
build
new
ones.
I
modernize,
what
I'm
doing
on
top
of
it,
and
what
I
had
seen
from
the
outside
is
red
hat
was
really
in
a
class
of
its
own.
B
I
mean
I
saw
it
on
the
outside
and
even
I
love
on
the
inside.
It
was
like.
Oh
hey,
there's,
you
know
a
cio
in
india
talking
about
hey,
I'm
doing
this
wonderful
stuff
with
amazon
and
vmware
cloud,
and
you
know
what
do
I
do
for
my
application.
I
run
openshift
on
top
of
it
and
our
team
was
like.
Oh
cool.
We've
got
a
public
reference
that
you
know.
Wasn't
our
reference
team
putting
it
in
it's.
B
A
B
You
have
you
have
entire
regularly
running
series
on
your
program
to
talk
about
this.
So
look,
I
I,
I
guess
one
of
the
things
that
you
know
I
I
wanted
to
share
with
the
audience
here
we're
doing
the
the
soft
launch
of
of
an
e-book
that
I've
been
working
on
for
a
number
of
months
with
a
team
and
it's
about
hybrid
cloud
and
kubernetes
and
the
architectural
decisions
you
need
to
make.
B
Fundamentally
we
talk
about
three
pillars
and
got
those
joe
fernandez
who
who,
who
I
report
to,
has
been
talking
about
this
for
a
while.
First
of
all,
you
know
it's
about
your
applications.
Yeah
line
I've
used
for
years.
Chris
is
I'm
an
infrastructure
guy.
By
background
my
background,
networking
virtualization.
B
The
only
reason
we
have
these
technologies
is
to
support
your
applications.
Right.
You
go
talk
to
the
c-suite,
I
don't
care
about
software-defined
networking,
I
don't
care
about
how
many
cores
and
how
many
things
you
got
on
and
everything.
What
do
I
care?
I
care
about
my
business.
My
business
runs
on
application.
My
data
is
super
important
in
my
people,
so.
C
B
Know
the
but
the
applications
are
so
what's
important,
so
that's
where
it
starts,
and
so
one
of
the
big
changes.
What
are
the
challenges
here,
chris,
the
average
enterprise?
It
has
hundreds,
if
not
thousands,
of
applications
and
the
average
application
it's
too
old,
and
it
probably
sucks.
So
you
know
if
you
talk
to
people
that
use
applications,
you
know
here's
an
example.
I
use
my
mother
retired
relatively
recently.
She
worked
in
hospice
care
and
she
would
talk
to
me
about
the
application
that
she
had
to
use
for
her.
B
You
know
the
people
that
she
was
giving
service
and
she's
like
I
have
to
manually
enter
the
same
thing
three
times
and
even
you
know
the
it
wasn't
this,
the
the
laptop
or
anything
like
that
it
was
just
the
architecture
of
what
she's
doing
was
very
manual.
It
wasn't
built
to
help
you
get
your
job
done.
It
was
helped
to
you
know.
You
need
to
fill
out
all
this
paperwork
and
follow
all
of
this
compliance,
and
you
know
when
I
talk
to
analysts
that
work
on
applications.
B
B
Is
you
know
when
I
started
working
with
ver?
You
know
virtualization,
you
know
over
15
years
ago
right
it
was
my
operating
system's
going
into
life,
the
server's
going
into
support.
Hey,
should
we,
you
know,
update
that
you
know
horrible
application
and
somebody
was
like
well
hey.
No,
we
can
stick
it
in
a
vm
and
leave
it
there
for
another
five
years.
It's
real
happy,
but
the
users
of
the
application
are
miserable.
B
So
we
know
that
in
today's
world,
not
only
am
I
building
new
applications,
but
we're
constantly
we're
changing
we're,
adjusting
we're
tweaking
we're
we're
making
it
more
modular,
so
that
journey
of
applications
is
a
huge
challenge.
The
infrastructure
is
the
second
pillar
and
the
third
one
is
the
people,
the
processes
and
the
tooling
chris.
Unfortunately,
all
of
those
are
super
challenging.
B
Right,
I
mean
you
know
it
goes
without
saying
that
often
the
technology
part
is
the
easy
one
and
it's
the
culture,
one,
that's
tough,
but
you
know
I
tell
you
the
applications
could
give
it
a
run
for
its
money,
because
if
I
look
at
my
you
know
application
portfolio
and
say:
okay
modernize.
All
of
that
there
are
some
out
there.
That
would
like
hey
yeah,
give
us
a
week
or
two,
and
we
will
just
make
that
happen,
and
when
I
hear
those
stories
it's
like
you
know,
the
narrator
comes
on
and
says.
B
Yeah-
and
you
know
yes,
there
are
certain
things
that
we
can
move.
There
are
certain
things
we
can
modernize,
but
there's
often
times
where
it's
like.
Oh
yeah,
you
know
database
migration,
modernization,
those
kind
of
things
it's
one
of
those
things.
You
know
it
gets
to
the
80
complete
and
then
it
stops-
and
it
will
take
you
the
next
six
months,
to
figure
out
how
to
get
that
last
20.
B
So
it
is.
You
know
yes,
culture,
but
you
know.
Oh,
my
gosh
applications,
understanding.
You
know
what
do
you
build
new?
What
do
you
sassify?
What
do
you,
you
know
modernize?
What
do
you
lift
and
shift
and
which
things
are
you
just
like?
Hey
we're
just
going
to
run
this
thing
into
the
ground
until
we
absolutely
don't
need
it
and
replace
it,
and
things
like.
B
A
A
I
can
do
that
just
by
going
to
your
website
nowadays-
and
I
know
I'm
not
the
only
one
that
can
do
that
so
when
we,
when
we're
talking
about
transformation
of
applications,
transformation
of
infrastructure
and
then
that
last
piece
people
process
and
culture.
Where
do
you
start
right
like
this?
Is
this
paper
that
we're
putting
out
openshift.com
hybrid?
Does
that
help
there
I
mean?
Does
that
give
people
a
good
place
to
say?
Okay,
if
I
start
here,
I'm
going
to
end
up
have
a
better
outcome
than
if
I
started
here.
B
B
But
you
know,
here's
here's,
I
guess
the
starting
point
of
it.
Often
we
when
we
think
of
something
we
think
of
when
we
first
heard
of
it,
and
it
is
very
difficult
to
change
our
mind
on
it.
So
the
first
thing
of
the
paper
is
starting
with:
let's
start
with
hybrid
hybrid
cloud,
I
go
back
to
the
you
know.
We
talked
about
the
great
cloud
wars
and
things
like
that
and
it
was
public
cloud
will
rule
everything.
Private
cloud
is
garbage
and
it
doesn't
do
anything.
Hybrid
cloud
was
kind
of
this.
B
You
know
halfway
house
of
what
the
heck
is
it
it's
the
mix
of
the
crap
you
had
and
the
things
you
hope
you
do
and
if
that
is
your
mindset
of
hybrid
and
oh,
what
was
the
nist
use
case?
Oh
well,
let's
follow
the
sun
and
burst
and
do
all
these.
You
know
wacky
things
that
you
look
at
and
you
say,
like
date
of
gravity.
B
I
mean
chris,
you
know
if
anyone
is
going
to
change
the
laws
of
physics.
I
expected
our
friends
over
in
ibm
research
that
are
working
on
quantum
computing
and
all
that
stuff
to
find
some
way
to
bend.
You
know
those
rules
or
anything,
but
for
us
mere
mortals,
yeah,
there's
certain.
You
know,
data
gravity
you
talked
about.
You
know,
locality,
there's
certain.
You
know
fundamental
laws
that
we
need
to
follow.
So
what
we
wanted
to
do
is
first
of
all.
Let's
all
agree.
B
What
hybrid
is
because
hybrid
is
you've,
got
your
data
center.
You've
got
your
hosted
environment,
you've
got
public
cloud
and
oh
by
the
way
in
every
survey
you
see
is,
do
you
have
a
cloud
even
when
they
say?
Yes,
I
have
a
cloud.
Well,
I
forgot
about
the
one
group
overdue
in
there
and
the
new
cloud
comes
up
with
something
else.
B
B
Is
you're
going
to
have
lots
of
pieces
and
that's
only
going
to
continue
that's
for
right,
you're
at
hybrid
today,
you
will
be
at
hybrid
tomorrow,
and
our
hybrid
definition
will
be
more
of
an
umbrella
that
will
embrace
more
of
what's
happening
in
that
world.
Not
a
delineation
of
this
is
what
I
do
and
what
I
don't
do,
because
when
the
next
new
thing
comes
out,
hybrid
needs
to
be
able
to
to
do
it
and
that's
what
you
know.
B
Kubecon
week
you
talk
about,
like
oh,
my
gosh,
the
explosion
of
the
number
of
new
projects,
the
new
innovation
coming
from
lots
of
end
users
and
vendors
in
the
space.
What
I
don't
want
to
do
is
adopt
an
architecture
that,
when
hey
something
comes
out
and
you're
like
hey,
my
that'll,
actually
help
me
move
faster
answer.
The
business
questions.
I
have
you,
don't
want
to
say,
oh
well,
I
can't
do
that
right.
B
So
it's
not
easy
to
do,
but
you
know
that's
that's
one
of
the
things
that
really
excited
me
too
about
you
know
what
we
do
with
openshift,
how
we
work
with
the
ecosystem.
With
you
know
the
hyperscalers,
the
other
clouds,
you
know,
lots
of
environments
edge
and
all
those
things
is.
It
takes
a
lot
of
work
and
there's
a
lot
of
nuance
in.
B
I
don't
just
work
with
a
little,
but
I
actually
like
integrate
with
it
deeply
and
I
can
take
advantage
of
those
kind
of
kind
of
technologies
and
that's
what
hybrid
done
right
means
right,
and
you
know
right.
If
you
talk
to
you,
know
lots
of
companies
out
there
most
companies
today,
if
you
ask
them
their
cloud
strategy,
they're
not
going
to
say
yes,
I
choose
hybrid,
but
when
you
look
at
what
they
have
yes
they're
doing
hybrid.
So
that's
a
big
piece
of
the
paper
is
okay
step.
B
One
is
understand
what
you've
got
and
number
two
is.
What
do
you
have
to
do?
A
little
bit
different
as
an
analyst
for
years,
I've
been
saying
to
do
hybrid
or
multi-cloud
right.
It
would
be
really
nice
if
it
wasn't
just
a
collection
of
pieces.
But
how
do
I
get
my
arms
around
it?
How
do
I
coordinate
across
it
that
consistency,
which
is
what
openshift
has
really
focused
on
and
heck
before
that
rel
has
had
decades
of
deeply
working
in
all
of
those
environments?
B
A
It
leads
you
into
these
methodologies
of
the
future
without
actually
saying
like
embrace
more
agile
kind
of
flows
and
devops
and
get
offs
right
like,
but
it's
definitely
pointing
at
certain
things
and
saying,
like
you,
definitely
have
to
like
your
os
and
your
app
can't
be
dependent
upon
each
other.
Right,
like
that.
Java
app
running
in
relf4
can't
rely
on
those
packages
anymore
right,
like
you've,
got
to
have
modern
os
as
modern
containers,
essentially
or
equivalents
of
those
things
living
inside
this
new
hybrid
environment,
that
you're
working
on.
B
B
A
B
B
To
take
advantage
of
that,
because
the
the
the
challenge
we
all
have
is,
if
you
do
and
if
you
do
a
new
thing,
the
old
way.
Oh,
that's
not
good
yeah.
What's
the
biggest
challenge,
I
tell
you,
you
know
chris,
we
all
have
certain
things.
Well,
there's
certain
tools,
there's
the
certain
processes
in
the
way
that
I
do
things
it's
like
it's
why
I
love
talking
to
when
we
have
interns
in
and
I
love
it,
the
red
hat
culture
is,
you
are
not
doing
your
job.
B
If
you
don't
speak
up
and
say
hey,
have
we
considered
this
or
have
you
looked
at
this?
Have
you
done
this,
because
what
I
love
is
when
somebody
says:
oh,
hey,
here's,
this
new
way
of
doing
things
and
I'll
look
and
be,
like
you
just
saved
me,
20
minutes
a
day
or
a
couple
hours
a
week.
Oh
my
god.
I
can't
believe
I
didn't
know
about
when
did
that
come
out
and
they're,
like
oh
I've,
been
using
that
for
the
last
18
months.
I'm
like
oh,
my
gosh.
B
A
B
Because
you,
as
an
enterprise,
you
suck
at
pouring
concrete
doing
power
and
cooling,
there's
very
few
companies
in
the
world
that
are
good
on
that.
If
you
suck
at
it,
you
know
you
should
move
away
well,
unfortunately,
if
you
built
a
data
center
you're
off,
often
in
that
for
25
to
35
years,
if
not
more,
you
know
we
talked
about
how
long
people
you
know,
keep
things
running
so
it
is.
You
know
how
do
I
make
sure
that
I'm
thinking
of
new
things
without
having
to
also
constantly
course
correct
and
change?
B
B
So
right
so
so
the
problem
we
have
is
with
the
pace
of
change.
It
used
to
be
the
best
time
to
do
something
was
a
year
ago,
because
now
you'd
have
a
year
of
experience
today.
If
I
could
wait
another
six
to
12
months,
will
there
be
something
better,
cheaper,
faster,
more
wonderful,
possibly
so
it'd
be
awesome.
If
I
could
wait
another
year,
but
reality
is,
if
you
don't
start
now,
you're
never
gonna
get
there
and
you
can't
constantly
push
off
the
future.
B
So
the
answer
is
you
go
to
battle
with
the
technology
and
the
tools
that
you
have
today,
but
make
sure
that
you're
being
educated
and
understanding
because
the
challenge
we
have-
I
talked
about
there's
this,
this
gap
for
most
people,
the
technologies
that
I
understand
and
I'm
comfortable
with
you're,
usually
not
on
today's
technology.
As
a
matter
of
fact,
we
know
talk
to
the
typical
enterprise
and
you
say,
okay
product
gets
announced
today.
B
Am
I
ready
for
that
today?
No
I'm
running
the
thing
n
minus
two
right.
So
that's
where
my
point
of
view
is
and
if
I
look
at
the
road
map
I
look
at
these
things
and
you're
like
the
road
map,
looks
like
some
kind
of
alien
magic
that
I
don't
understand
because
I'm
at
something
you're
showing
me
something
a
year
or
so
out
and
I'm
running
something
a
couple
years
behind
a
three.
You
know
think
about
how
much
technology
has
changed
in
the
last
three
years.
Look.
A
B
B
A
That
is
just
for,
like
the
the
people
right
like
we
realized
in
the
community,
you
know
I'm
a
cncf
ambassador.
I
can
talk
to
this.
You
know
we
realized
in
the
community
that
doing
four
releases
a
year
under
the
conditions
of
covid
was
actually
detrimental
to
our
community,
so
pushing
it
back
to
three
a
year,
I
think
is
just
a
brilliant
idea,
but
not
only
that
it
allows
everybody
else
to
kind
of
consume.
A
The
latest
thing
a
little
bit
better
right,
like
your
immediate
update
to
the
next
kubernetes
version,
will
take
a
little
bit
longer
and
it
does
give
you
a
little
bit
more
time,
but
how
many
people
are
actually
running,
cube,
121
right
now,
very
few,
which
is
scary,
because
the
best
security
advice
for
kubernetes
is
run.
The
latest
version
right
so.
B
B
And
the
promise
of
cloud
was
it's
funny.
You
know
I
used
to
say
you
know
you
don't
ask
what
version
of
azure
or
aws
you're
running
on
you're
running
on
the
latest
version.
The
funny
thing
is,
if
you
look
at
the
kubernetes
offering
that
they
have
they've
got
a
few
different
versions.
So
you
know
I
go
in
and
I
actually
went
into
azure
yesterday
and
was
like
oh
hey.
B
From
azure
and
it's
like
hey
and
what
version
of
kubernetes
do
you
wanna
choose?
And
it's
like,
oh
great,
so
now
the
cloud
isn't
by
default
up
on
the
latest,
because
we
know,
as
we
said
before,
enterprises
we
need
to
have
our
upgrade
cycles
and
testing
and
manage
all
that.
But
it
is
unfortunately
chris
wasn't
cloud
supposed
to
be
just
cheap,
easy
and
fix
all
these
problems
right.
A
A
B
A
Talk
talking
about
transforming
people
process
and
culture
right,
like
culture
is
the
hardest
part.
Let's
just
set
that
up
right
there
right,
like
I've,
been
in
organizations
where
the
entire
I.t
department
has
got
up
and
walked
out
before,
and
I'm
the
guy
that
comes
in
and
has
to
try
and
clean
it
up.
It's
not
a
good
place
to
be
in
your
career.
Just
let
me
tell
you
that
right
up
front,
but
that
culture
change
as
hard
as
it
is.
B
Yeah,
you
know
I
look
at
you
know
the
last
20
years
of
my
career.
We've
talked
about
like
silos,
and
you
know
20
years
ago
you
know
I
my
networking
background.
I
worked
at
you,
know
large
storage
company
for
a
bunch
of
years
and
the
storage
team
and
the
network
team.
It
was
one
of
those
you
know
hey
at
the
company
picnic
you
better
separate
these
two
and
definitely
don't
have
them.
You
know
playing
flag
football
because
it
might
get
dirty.
B
You
know
so
and
part
of
it
was
do
you
have
a
general
understanding,
and
can
you
build
empathy
between
the
teams
right?
You
know,
you
know
what
is
devops
a
lot
of
what
devops
is
isn't
a
tool
set.
It
is
a
cultural
mindset
and
you
add
devsecops
into
it.
Hey.
How
do
we
get
security
into
the
entire
discussion?
B
Have
everyone
thinking
about
it
overall,
not
something
that
is
bolted
on
at
the
end
or
thrown
over
the
wall
to
the
security
team
to
handle
so
the
more
we
can
have
an
understanding
between
our
groups,
the
better
things
can
be
I'll.
Tell
you
one
of
the
ones
I
loved
two
years
ago.
I
think
it
was.
I
went
to
anselbefest
back
when
we
had
it
in
person.
A
B
Had
their
way
to
look
into
the
tooling
and
while
they
all
spoke
their
own
language,
if
I
had
a
common
tool
that
I
can
see
what
I
need
and
there's
communication
between
you
know:
slack
isn't
going
to
get
everybody
working
together
now
github
does
get
people
working
together
a
lot
more
so
it's
you
know
nothing
wrong
with
slack
and
it's
useful
and
everything
like
that.
But
when
we
think
about
collaboration,
we
need
to
think
of
it
as
to
the
right.
How
do
I
do
my
job?
B
What
are
the
things
I
need,
and
you
know
software
can
actually
be
a
unifying.
You
know,
factor
between
those
environments.
There's
lots
of
examples.
We've
seen
I've
seen
lots
of
companies
when
they're
building
more
software.
It
pulls
their
teams
together
because
they
have
to
have
they
have
to
have
common
apis.
They
have
to
have
common
user
interfaces
common
experiences.
B
A
B
A
And
you
know:
we've
integrated
both
of
those
things
into
openshift
now
and
there's
a
bright
future
in
both
of
those,
but
we've
also
open
sourced
them
and
we've
gotten
better
at
open
sourcing
things
we
being
red
hat,
because
I
remember
when
the
ansible
acquisition
happened.
It
took
a
year
and
a
half
almost
two
years
to
get
ansible
tower,
open
sourced
and,
and
now
it's
just
like,
we
can
do
it
so
quickly
because
we're
so
used
to
doing
it
right
like
it's
it's
this
too
can
happen
for
your
organization.
A
When
it
comes
to
your
infrastructure
and
your
challenges,
you
just
gotta,
let
everybody
have
a
seat
at
the
table
right
like
not
exclude
anyone
be
more
inclusive.
That's
all
it's
funny.
Someone
mentioned
emily
freeman's
devops
for
dummies
book
was
more
about
getting
people
talking
to
each
other
and
working
with
each
other
than
it
was
about
technology.
A
That's
true
right,
like
the
idea
of
you
know
me
throwing
something
over
the
wall
to
the
security
team
and
they're,
going
to
pull
out
their
checklist
and
make
sure.
Oh,
oh
us
top
10
is
check
and
oh
the
nist
standard
is
checked
and
oh,
this
is
checked
that
doesn't
actually
make
this
application
more
secure.
A
It's
just
compliant
right,
so
you
want
to
make
sure
that
those
people
have
spots
in
the
pipeline,
but
also
spots
at
the
table
to
discuss
not
only
at
the
end
where
everybody
gets
together
and
does
things
which
then
inevitably
ends
to
a
weekend
release
taking
the
whole
weekend.
You
don't
you,
don't
really
want
that.
A
B
C
B
B
B
A
B
To
do
so,
it
is
it's
good
to
know.
You
know
what
a
strong
focus
there
is
by
the
whole
team,
and
it's
it's
been.
You
know
I
I've
loved.
The
comment
I've
made
in
six
months
is,
you
know,
have
there
been
any
surprises
at
red
hat?
I
said
not
really
really.
Red
hat
is
more
red
hat
on
the
inside
than
it
was
on
the
outside.
When
you
see
some
of
the
you
know,
you
know
robust
discussions
and
conversations
and
things
going
on
inside
you're
like
wow.
B
A
Yeah
the
amount
of
collaboration
right,
not
not
just
even
within,
like
my
own
team,
but
like
people,
you
know
I'm
in
this
unique
position
where
I'm
running
this
channel
and
everything
else.
So
I
have
to
reach
out
across
different
lines
right
across
different
business
units
and
everything
and
everyone
is
so
collaborative.
It
is
really
refreshing
right
like
this
is
the
environment.
I've
wanted
to
be
in
for
years
now.
I'm
finally,
here
kind
of
deal.
B
Chris,
you
know
you
bring
a
point,
so
it's
funny,
you
know.
I
first
worked
with
red
hat,
it's
scary
for
me
to
say
it
was
21
years
ago.
I
think
the
first
time
I
started
working
with
red
hat
and
over
my
career,
I've
worked
with
so
many
companies
and
you
have
good
interaction.
Do
you
have
bad
interactions?
B
You
have
things
in
between,
but
you
know
the
culture
of
red
hat
does
come
through
it
is,
you
know,
as
we
said,
I
think,
a
differentiator
of
the
company,
and
it
is
one
of
the
top
things
that
brought
me
here,
because
that
first
interaction
back
in
the
oh,
my
god,
wild
wild
west
of
linux-
I
mean
you,
remember,
va
and
turbo.
Oh.
B
Susa
or
any
of
those
came
out,
it
was,
you
know
I
was
working
at
emc
and
as
like,
the
young
product
manager,
they're
like
well,
we've
got
all
these
unix
stuff
and
we've
got
the
microsoft
relationship
and
oracle
and
cisco
and
intel,
and
all
these
things
there's
this
mess
of
stuff
in
linux.
You've
probably
got
a
few
spare
cycles.
B
Why
don't
you
figure
that
out
and
figure
out
how
we
should
do
it
and
wait
the
day
that
red
hat
called
us
up
and
said
hey,
so
we
think
we're
going
to
put
out
this
thing,
called
red
hat,
advanced
server
and
we're
going
to
target
it
towards
being
a
package
that
has
all
the
patches
and
all
the
things
we
need
and
we've
just
gone
from
the
2.4
to
the
2.6
kernel
and
all
this
stuff.
It
was
like
wait,
wait
wait!
B
So
I
can
tell
companies
you
use
this
one
and
it's
gonna
work
and
we
tested
it
and
it
did
and,
like
literally,
we
had
like.
You
know
this
multi-page
document
as
to
all
the
way
to
make
linux
work
and
all
the
vendors
we
might
work
too
too.
It
was
like
yeah.
So
you're
gonna
use
red
hat
and
that's
going
to
be
the
default,
and
if
you
really
need
something
else,
you
need
better
have
a
good
reason,
because
we
just
didn't
have
enough
resources
right.
B
A
Yeah,
the
the
the
growth
of
cloud,
I
think,
is
it's
an
order
of
magnitude
every
year
right
like
looking
at
you
know,
earnings
reports
and
such
but
the
the
amount
that
you
can
cover.
Your
cloud
in
red
hat
is
almost
equal,
which
is
great.
I
feel
like
right,
like
you,
can
manage
your
cloud
with
red
hat.
You
can
put
your
applications
on
systems
that
are,
you
know,
designed
to
work
across
all
clouds
because
they
are
running
the
same.
You
know
the
same
software
underneath
the
hood
kind
of
deal,
and
you
don't
have
to
worry
about.
A
Oh
over
here
we're
version,
one
point
something
and
over
here
we're
version.
One
point,
not
something,
and
you
know
this
one
feature
we
can't
put
in
this
cluster,
but
we
can
put
in
that
cluster
and
you
don't
have
to
worry
about
that.
It's
a
consistent
operating
environment
and
you
know
because
of
operators
themselves
it
it
becomes
a
more
manageable
situation
and
you're
kind
of
you
know
treating
your
applications
or
not
your
applications,
but
your
your
infrastructure
and
your
tooling
as
a
real
advantage
as
opposed
to
something.
That's
you
know,
holding
you
back.
B
Yeah,
well,
that
was
that
was
one
of
the
lines.
The
the
question
is,
you
know,
is
hybrid,
a
whole
bunch
of
pieces
that
becomes
a
boat
anchor.
You
know
to
it,
slows
you
down,
we
all
know.
You
talked
about
chris,
how
you
can
look
at
somebody's
website
and
realize
that
they're,
not
you
know,
moving
fast.
B
If
you
read
the
you
know
the
the
big
devops
survey
that
that
happens
every
year
there
are
certain
companies
that
are
like
well
we're
gonna,
take
our
12
to
18
month,
release
cycle
and
we're
just
going
to
go
faster,
and
you
know
we're
not
going
to
really
change
but
yeah
we're
not
going
to
get
it
on
a
you
know,
a
a
nine-month
cadence
and
it's
the
trains
going
off
the
tracks.
It's
not
you
know
happening
fast
versus
the
ones
that
are
like
yeah.
B
We
we
push
code,
you
know
whenever
we
want
and
push
multiple
times
a
day
and
can
do
all
these
things.
It's
you
know
looking
at
what
differentiates
you
know,
the
leaders
is
completely
re-architected.
We
try
to
take
away
some
of
those
dependencies
so
that
I
can
make
changes.
You
know
it's
loosely
coupled
you
know
two
pizza
teams
which
I
still
struggle
with,
but
maybe
it's
just
because
I
have
you
know
a
teenage
boy
in
the
household
and
given
it
you
know,
yeah.
A
B
I
unfortunately
will
still
eat
too
much
pizza
given
the
chance,
but
it's
right
the
the
way
that
you
do
things
and
move
forward.
So
right
can
hybrid
architected
right
from
your
apps,
your
infrastructure
and
your
in
your
people.
It
really
could
be
a
booster
rocket.
It
can
absolutely
I
loved.
I
was
listening
in
in
red
hat
summit,
the
speaker
we
add
on
from
fema,
and
he
talked
about.
You
know
immutable
architectures
and
I
build
something
you
know
it's
the
right
ones.
Do
it
anywhere
and
right.
B
It's
not
like
he's
moving
things
everywhere,
but
it's
you
know.
If
we
make
a
decision,
where
does
an
application
live?
I
can
figure
that
out
later
because
I
can
build
it
wherever
I
need.
I
can
use
the
you
know
the
crcs
and
have
this
environment
where
I
build
it
and
then
deployment
is
something
that's
separate
and
I
can
take
care
of
that
and
if
things
change
in
the
future,
no
problem
and
there's
some
cool
new
thing
that
I
want
to
take
advantage
of.
Often
I
can
get
my
environment
there
much
faster.
B
C
B
We're
still,
you
know
it's
it's
crazy
to
me
how
early
we
are
still
in
cloud
because
most
of
us
we've
been
in
it
and
talking
about
it
for
more
than
a
decade.
But
when
you
look
at
you
know,
you
know
the
over
trillion
dollars
of
the
market
and
where
you
know
I
mean
amazon
and
microsoft
and
google,
and
you
know
alibaba
and
everything
are
growing
gangbusters,
but
we're
still
a
small
slice
of
the
overall
picture.
B
There
so
yeah
exciting
time
lots
of
opportunities
there
and
you
know
working
with
those
customers,
because
you
know
a
thing,
we've
said
often
is
strategy,
isn't
something
that
you
make
a
you
know
three
to
five
year
strategy.
It
is
something
that
you
set
a
direction
and
you
need
to
revisit
often
because
you
know
a
quarter
from
now.
Things
might
be
a
little
different.
I
think
2020
put
that
in
sharp
focus
for
all
of
us.
I
think
when
we
all
went
into
2020.
We
had
slightly
different
plans.
A
B
Even
I
had
the
most
wonderful
trip
to
I
had
a
conference
in
dublin.
The
conference
in
amsterdam
and
in
between
was
going
to
go,
see
a
buddy
in
prague
which
I've
never
been
to,
and
it
was
like.
You
know
two
weeks
of
like
seeing
some
lovely
sights
in
europe
and
you
know
really
enjoying
some
flavors
and
everything,
and
you
know
since
then
I
I've
only
had
takeout
from
places
within
a
15-mile
radius
of
my
house.
So
I.
A
A
You
want
the
the
mean
time
to
recovery
to
be
minimal,
and
the
best
way
to
do
that
is
to
often
have
multiple
pods
running
in
a
kubernetes
cluster
right
and
a
single
deployment.
So
the
the
the
leaps
and
bounds
you
can
make
in
a
hybrid
environment
where
you're
taking
advantage
of
not
only
kubernetes
or
you
know,
openshift
or
ansible,
but
you're,
taking
advantage
of
cloud
services
where
you
consider
yourselves
to
be
weaker
in
right.
A
A
A
B
B
Let
me
you
know
you
want
to
make
any
changes.
It
has
to
go
through
git.
There
are
things
about
that
that
are
super
attractive,
but
is
it
too
regimented
for
most
customers?
I
can
imagine
certain
government
agencies
that
are
like
this
is
perfect,
but
the
the
average
company.
The
problem
we
have
is
you
know
we're
used
to
well,
I
you
know
I
want
to
be
able
to
adjust
things
ourselves.
B
The
the
thing
that
you
know
the
the
funny
thing
is
is,
I
said
the
misconception
of
cloud
for
the
longest
time
was
you
know,
building.
You
know
your
stack
in
your
data
center.
You
had
all
these
knobs
and
things
that
you
did
and
everything
cloud
is
much
simpler.
You
talked
about
compute,
hey
chris.
If
I
went
to
favorite
vendor
in
the
data
center
for
a
server
versus
amazon
or
azure,.
C
B
To
roll
out
a
compute
node,
so
it's
one
of
those
I'm
like!
Oh
my
god,
yeah,
I
wrote
a
pic.
I
wrote
an
article
years
ago
when
we
first
dug
into
amazon,
and
you
know,
wish
I
could
go
see
a
data
center,
but
got
to
listen
like
james
hamilton
speak
and
got
to
interview
him
and
totally
geeked
out
on
it,
and
it
was
you
know:
amazon
is
not
off
the
shelf.
You
know
generic
white
box
stuff
are
what
I
called
hyper
optimized,
it's
like
when
he's
like.
B
So
it
is
crazy
to
think
about.
You
know
that
that
you
know
just
not
my
handful
of
servers
or
hundreds
of
servers,
but
you
know
the
tens
of
thousands
of
servers
for
each
environment
that
they
have.
So
that's
you
know
very
different,
so
the
the
problem
right,
we
corey
quinn's
written
some
great
things.
As
you
know,
amazon
you
got
too
many
features.
You
know
nobody
needs
all
of
it.
You
know
nobody
other
than
like
you
know.
B
A
B
B
Yeah,
so
you
know
it
might
sound
a
little
bit
corny,
but
you
know
part
of
it
it's
the
mission.
When
I
look
at
you
know
what
brought
me
to
red
hat,
I
felt
like
I
could
help
make
an
impact
here,
but
the
community
activity
and
the
good
that
the
technology
that
we
do
helps
the
world.
So
you
know
I
don't
say
that
lightly.
B
When
I
talk
to
certain
companies
and
like
you
know,
I
know
our
our
teams
are
all
super
proud
when
there's
like
how
much
is
helping
health
organizations
to
track
and
fight
covet
right
now,
yeah
the
work
that
goes
into
like
sustainability,
the
things
that
have
been
done.
You
know
not
only
red
hat,
but
you
know
hey
that
even
that
parent
company,
you
know
ibm
who
you
know,
helps
with
things
I
I
watch.
B
You
know
jim
whitehurst,
talking
about
like
sustainability
initiatives
being
part
of
that
overall
mission
and
getting
to
work
with
customers,
help
work
through
their
challenges
and
hopefully
make
the
world
a
better
place.
You
know
that
that's
one
of
the
things
that
brought
me
over
and
has
been
super
exciting
to
dig
into,
and
I
can't
wait
until
it
will
just
be.
You
know:
team
zoom,
you
know
webex
and
things
there,
but
actually
get
to.
You
know
talk
in
person
to
you
know
more
of
these
people.
A
A
B
Because
it
is
those
those
interesting
collisions
or
side
comments,
or
you
know
right
over
a
meal
or
you
know
out
in
the
hallway
after
where
sometimes
some
of
the
most
meaningful
conversations
can
happen.
That's
why
yeah
I
mean
we're
all
trying
to
reproduce
the
hallway
tracks
at
the
virtual
events
and
finding
ways
to
have
meaningful
connections
with
people.
You
know
I
I
still
love.
You
know,
people
that
reach
out,
and
you
know
we
have.
A
A
People
are
a
huge
part
of
technology
nowadays,
right,
like
you,
can't
deny
that
anymore,
so,
yeah
being
a
people,
person
is
vastly
important
in
nowadays,
because
you
have
to
show
some
folks
value
right
like
what
are
you
doing
to
improve
things
and
making
things
more
sustainable
or
more
flexible?
Someone
just
commented.
I
hope
some
summit
will
be
in
person
again
next
year.
As
do
I
yeah.
B
So
hopefully,
we've
got
a
lot
of
work
to
do
before
and
we
all
know
we
all
know
there
will
be
some
hybrid
involved
so
chris.
This
is
also
it
was
star
wars
week
this
week.
So
did
you
get
to
do
any
special
shows
or
do
you
have
any
favorite
star
wars
movies
or
shows
that
you
know
I
get
to
ask
you
a
question
before
we
wrap.
A
I
mean
you
know:
star
wars
is
a
huge
multiverse
right
and,
and
then
you
have
you
throw
in
the
addition
of
disney
plus
with
the
mandalorian
and
everything
like
it's.
It's
really
getting
hard
to
be
like
no,
I
like
the
prequels
or
the
sequels
or
the
main
trilogy
or
the
tv
stuff.
It's
like
there's
so
much
of
it
now.
A
But
to
be
honest
with
you,
I
still
think
some
of
those
you
know
obi-wan
kenobi
references
are
still
valid
today.
Right,
like
you,
know,
trusts
and
patience,
and
those
kinds
of
things
still
apply
right
like
if
you
don't
give
yourself
enough
leeway
to
learn
you're,
never
going
to
get
ahead,
you're
going
to
constantly
be
behind.
So
you
have
to
give
your
teams
your
people,
the
the
patience
that
is
needed
to
get
them
to
where
they
need
to
be.
A
B
A
B
A
A
A
A
B
C
A
Awesome
well,
stu,
it's
been
great.
It's
been
great
having
you
here
really
appreciate
your
time
today.
Thank
you,
everyone
for
watching!
Thank
you.
Everybody
out
there
just
doing
the
work
of
making
the
world
a
better
place
and
adopting
these
technologies
and
bringing
them
bringing
them
to
bear,
for
you
know
all
the
purposes
that
have
come
out
in
distributed
computing
and
hybrid
cloud.
So
thank
you
all
very
much
for
the
work
you've
done
and
stu,
I'm
sure
we'll
see
each
other
again
very
soon.
So
thank
you
again
for
coming
on
today.
B
No
I'm
not
taking
over
your
job
chris.
Thank
you
for
doing
it.
You
know,
I
love
the
conversations.
Definitely
you
know
there
definitely
will
be
some
times
that
you
and
I
will
be
collaborating
on
stuff,
so
I
will
be
doing
some
more
video
yeah.
You
know
it
was
nice.
We
got
through
almost
an
hour
and
we
didn't
even
mention,
like
my
twitter
handle,
I'm
like
the
easiest
guy
to
find
on
twitter.
B
B
A
Yeah
redhat.com
jobs
go,
get
those
go,
get
those
applications
in
folks.
We
really
need
you
so
good
point.
Thank
you
for
mentioning
that
stu
and
with
that,
I
think
we'll
say
goodbye.
We'll
see
y'all
on
the
air
tomorrow
for
our
kubecon
office
hours
that
are
still
continuing
starting
at
7
a.m.
Eastern
tomorrow
13
1315
central
european
standard
time,
because
why
not
so
take
it
easy
out?
There
stay
safe
and
we
will
see
you
all
next.