►
From YouTube: In the Clouds (E24) | Cloud security & VMware + Broadcom
Description
As security threats continue to grow, strong security practices are more critical than ever. Host Stu Miniman talks with Dr. Steve Herrod, Managing Director at General Catalyst, on why security and cloud-based software are more critical than ever to help enterprises and customers in this changing landscape. A VC focused on security, developers, and advances in computing infrastructure, Herrod was previously CTO and SVP of R&D at VMware, and he'll also lend us some insights on the recent news of Broadcom's $61B acquisition plan of VMware. So tune in and join us to learn more about these recent changes and why security is critical for all businesses today.
Want to learn more?
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/26/technology/broadcom-vmware-deal.html
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A
A
Welcome
to
another
episode
of
in
the
clouds.
I
am
your
host
stu
miniman
and
really
excited
for
the
discussion
we
are
going
to
have
today.
Calendar
has
flipped
yet
again
it
is
now
june
2022
and
I'm
happy
to
welcome
to
the
program
a
first
time
guest
for
this,
but
one
that
I've
had
many
conversations
over
the
the
the
years,
dr
steve
herrod,
who
is
the
managing
director
a
managing
director
at
general
catalyst,
a
venture,
capitalist,
firm,
steve,
a
pleasure
to
see
you
thanks
so
much
for
joining
me.
That
was
cool.
A
Yeah
you
and
I,
as
I
said
we
we
talked
many
times
on
the
cube.
First
met
you
when
you
were
the
the
cto
at
vmware
for
our
audience
that
isn't
aware.
You
know
you
you
were
phd.
You
got
your
phd
from
stanford,
where,
of
course,
you
know
lots
of
the
valley.
Companies
and
especially
vmware,
pulled
their
talent.
You
were
cto
and
everyone
in
the
vmware
community
knew
you
from
you
know.
A
I
I
happened
to
be
of
the
expert
for
a
number
of
years
and
you
gave
a
lot
of
time
and
attention
to
them.
You
gave
lots
of
keynotes
and
would
bring
you
know
great
knowledge
and
energy
even
played
drums
on
stage
one
time
you
know
if
many
of
us
is
like,
if
we
could
only
be
as
cool
as
steve,
dropping
knowledge
and
you
know
doing
some
cool
stuff
up
on
stage
and
then
gosh.
A
It
was
hard
for
me
to
believe
that
already
you've
been
a
venture
capitalist
for
eight
years,
a
lot
of
focus,
open
source
developers,
security
and
the
likes
so
wow.
You
know
exciting.
So
just
maybe
start
with
steve.
Just
you
know
your
your
job
today.
You
know
what
you're
doing
and
what
what's
exciting
you
in
the
tech
world.
B
Well,
I'm
having
fun
stu,
it's
a
it's
just
a
great
time
I
mean,
even
even
in
the
current
sort
of
messiness
of
what's
going
on
in
the
market.
It's
just
a
it's
really
fun
time
to
be
in
technology.
It
has
been
my
entire
life
and
and
really
just
trying
to
keep
track
of
what
are
the
big
trends
that
are
happening.
B
What
are
some
really
interesting
companies
to
start
around
that
and
then
and
then
the
investment
side
sort
of
follows
from
that
you
know,
can
can
you
help
create
the
next
vmware
or
whatever
it
might
be
so
yeah,
it's
it's.
If
you're
a
technophile,
it
continues
to
be
kind
of
one
of
the
funnest
times
to
be
around
and
yeah.
We
can
talk
about
it
later,
but
obviously
covet
has
made
it
both
more
challenging
and
and
and
easier
as
well.
B
I
have
my
first
investment
in
germany,
for
instance,
and
that's
I've
never
been
there
in
person
or
met
them
in
person,
but
but
it's
been
a
great
relationship,
so
so
yeah,
it's
just
it's
it's
a
time
of
a
lot
of
technology
change.
As
always-
and
it's
been
a
time
of
really
a
lot
of
people-
thinking
that
they
can
create
great
new
companies
and
and
trying
to
be
part
of
that,
yeah.
A
Steve,
as
I
I
know,
one
friend
of
mine
once
said,
you
know,
if
you're
a
technologist,
it
should
mean
that
you're
an
optimist
about
what
technology
can
do
to
help
help
the
world
help
the
future.
I
know
it
was
part
of
the
mission
that
brought
me
to
red
hat.
Is
you
know
the
open
unlocks
the
world's
potential
and
yeah?
I
mean
there's
a
lot
of
global
things.
Going
on
there's
a
lot
of
economic
things
going
on
the
pandemic.
A
I
want
to
put
a
pin
in
it
because
we're
going
to
spend
some
time
digging
into
those
areas,
but
we
can't
hide
the
lead.
You
know
acquisition
m,
a
something
that
you
as
a
vc
know.
Quite
a
bit
about
you've
had
some.
You
know
good
successful
exit
for
some
of
the
companies
that
you've
been
a
board
member
and
an
investor
on,
but
there
was
a
there's,
a
little
company
that
you
and
I
both
know
that
is
potentially
being
acquired,
so
easter
egg
I've
got
a
little
bumper
sticker.
A
I
remember
back,
you
know,
15
years
ago
everybody
had
I
love
vmware.
You
know
stickers
buttons
and
the
like
and
vmware,
which
has
had
a
storied
career,
a
big
impact
on
both
of
our
careers.
You
of
course
worked
there
for
a
lot
of
years.
I've
worked
with
vmware
for
20
years.
They
were
100
company
when
I
started
working
with
them
in
2002.
A
You
know
one
of
my
claim
to
fame.
I
was
one
of
the
first
handful
of
people
at
emc,
working
with
vmware,
I
trained
emc
customer
support
on
what
that
whole
server.
Virtualization
stuff
was,
and
it
it's
one
of
those
few
times
in
my
career,
where
I
was
like
you
know,
when
the
world
wide
web
first
came
out
and
I
was
showing
it
to
people
and
I'm
like
no,
this
is
really
exciting.
It's
like
you
know,
vmware's.
B
A
You
know
those
kind
of
things,
but
just
to
set
the
stage
for
our
audience.
You
know
a
year
after
I
started
working
with
vmware
2003
emc
bought
vmware
for
the
paltry
635
million
dollars.
Many
said
that
was
the
ended
up
being
the
acquisition
of
the
decade,
if
not
the
century,
for
the
impact
that
it
had
on
the
ite
universe,
fast
forward
to
2015
dell
swallowed
up
emc,
which
included
vmware
for
67
billion
dollars
and,
of
course,
michael
dell,
lots
of
things
that
that
happened
in
that
environment.
A
It
was
the
crown
jewel
of
that
acquisition
that
he
said
a
little
over,
but
it
was
about
six
months
ago,
dell
spun
out
vmware.
Finally,
an
independent
company
for
the
first
time
since
2003
and
what
happened
swoops
in
there
is
an
acquisition
of
broadcom
now
for
61
billion
dollars,
which
would
be
the
largest
software
acquisition
in
history.
I
think
you
know
at
the
time
34
billion
for
red
hat
by
ibm
was
the
largest
software
acquisition.
A
So
you
know
first
disclaimer
steve
and
I
are
not
recommending
you
know
or
giving
advice
on
on
stocks
too
much
on
that.
But
you
know
steve.
First
of
all,
you
know
your
long
history
and
connections
and
I'm
sure
you
still
know
many
of
the
executives
and
people
in
the
palo
alto
area.
So
you
know
what
what
was
your?
What
was
your
take
when
you
heard
about
it,
and
you
know
what
what's
your
thinking
on
it?
B
Been
I
mean
just
the
history
as
you've
talked
about,
has
been
pretty
interesting.
I
think
there'll
be
business
books,
written
about
debt
and
leverage
and
how
to
do
this
sort
of
thing
for
years
to
come.
So
it's
been
pretty
fascinating
from
a
business
standpoint,
but
but
yeah
it's
certainly
been
whiplash.
As
you
go
back
and
forth.
I
think
at
this
point
you
know
we're
sort
of
moving
into
the
next
generation
of
how
the
company's
going
to
work
yeah.
B
B
Agree,
but
we
can,
we
can
talk
as
much
about
the
sort
of
that
side
of
things.
If
you
want.
I
do
think
just
you
know,
having
been
there
for
a
long
time
and
and
have
so
many
friends
that
are
still
there
and
ragu
who
runs
a
company
is
a
good
friend
and
a
great
technologist
yeah.
I
think
that
the
question
always
happens
like
what,
next,
what
will
become
of
this?
Not
only
the
products
but
the
community
and
all
the
partnerships,
and
I
think
that's
really
what
everyone
is
holding
their
breath
about
yeah.
B
I
think
I
got
involved.
Obviously,
from
the
very
early
days
it
was
a
stanford
project
led
by
mendel
rosenblum
and
his
and
his
wife
diane,
who
are
just
two
amazing
people,
and
I
was
in
mendel's
lab
with
ed
bouyon
and
several
other
folks,
just
since
you're
in
the
ibm
sphere.
You
know
it
all
started
by
reading
history,
books
about
ibm
and
how
they
had
started
virtualization
and
that's
something
cool
you
can
do
in
grad
school.
You
could
like.
B
A
Yeah,
no,
I
I
I
totally,
you
know
absolutely
anybody
that
understands
the
history
is
vmware
didn't
come
up
with
the
term
virtual
machine.
There
were
virtual
machines
on
the
mainframe
and
back
when
I
was
an
analyst
every
time
new
technologies
came
out.
I
would
go
talk
to
our
cto
and
say:
okay,
please,
to
give
me
the
mainframe
equivalent.
You
know
when
containerization
when
you
know
some
of
these
pieces,
I
mean
heck.
A
B
A
lot
of
people
watching
the
stream
might
be
like
what's
a
mainframe
anyway,
I
mean
just
like
stepping
all
the
way
back.
I
do
think
throughout
the
history
of
vmware,
but
there's
been
a
couple
of
key
things
that
have
made
it
successful
and
a
lot
of
other
companies
share
these
traits,
but
vmware
in
particular
brought
up
some
neat
ones.
One
is
just
this
big
and
ongoing
investment
in
in
continued
innovation,
and
that's
you
know,
hiring
great
people
putting
a
lot
of
money
into
it.
B
Having
patience
to
have
a
lot
of
failed
projects,
we
have
a
lot
of
really
cool
failed
projects
over
the
years,
but
I
think
if
you
don't
have
a
few
failed
ones,
some
of
the
cool
new
stuff
doesn't
show
up
and
that's
what's
put
them
sort
of
not
just
virtualization
but
dev
developer
tools:
multi-cloud
services,
big
networking,
business,
big
storage,
business.
So
I
think
that
you
know,
I
think,
whenever
you
get
into
a
larger
company,
can
you
keep
innovation?
Going?
B
B
If
you
will
across
vendors,
this
type
of
software
literally
fits
between
all
the
software
on
one
side
and
all
the
hardware
on
the
other
side,
and
and
and
when
you
get-
and
this
is
something
we
had
to
be
very
careful
with,
as
you
members
do,
when
emc
bought
vmware
when
dell
got
quite
involved.
Certainly
you.
B
Access
to
hardware
and
making
things
very
interesting-
and
that's
maybe
as
a
side
topic-
could
be
very
interesting
from
broadcom,
but
but
if
you
don't
have
all
the
vendors
getting
great
access
to
the
software
and
running
with
it,
it
doesn't
achieve
the
full
purpose
of
virtual
design
virtualizing
these
layers,
so
there's
a
big
tbd
on
how
this
works.
But
for
me
those
are
two
things
that
are
really
important
to
watch
the
innovation
and
the
neutrality
across
hardware.
Vendors.
A
A
Vmware
must
innovate
and
they're
like
so
is
a
good
deal
he's
like
well,
I
don't
know
if
broadcom
will
continue
the
innovation,
so
that
is,
as
you
said,
that's
the
big
question.
There's
a
chart
that
most
people
are
quoting
that,
if
you
look
at
broadcom,
is
looking
to
really
increase
the
profitability,
which
two
of
the
biggest
levers
for
increasing
profitability
are,
you
know,
do
we
cut
r
d?
Do
we
cut?
A
You
know
the
number
of
head
count
that
we
have
and
both
of
those
could
put
a
damper
on
on
some
of
the
innovation
on
that
that
that's
happening
there.
So
yeah
yeah-
I
guess
you
know
maybe
bridge
over
to
you
know
where,
where
this
fits
in
cloud.
It's
interesting
so
many
times
when
an
acquisition
happens.
It's
like
you
know,
you
read
the
headline
and
it's
like
wait,
blah
blah.
You
know
cloud
this
and
that
and
you're
like
yeah,
I
don't
know
five
percent
of
their
business
is
cloud
they're.
A
Are
they
really
that
what
are
they
really
buying
it?
For
so
it's
interesting.
You
know
I
wrote
an
article
when
red
hat
was
bought
by
ibm
and
I
was
an
analyst
I
said.
Look
you
know,
red
hat
could
become
the
center
of
ibm's
hybrid
cloud
strategy.
That
is
the
driver,
that's
where
ibm's
pulling
it
in
when
I
look
at
vmware
and
where
they
play
in
the
cloud.
Obviously
you
know
they
are
agnostic,
the
switzerland
of
the
cloud
for
a
lot
of
pieces,
but
you
know
where?
Where
do
you
see?
A
B
Well,
first
I'll
call
out
too
I
mean.
I
know
this
is
a
red
hat
discussion,
or
certainly
a
sponsored
area,
but
I
actually
think
the
strategies
are
very
similar
on
the
two
companies
and
there's
certainly
products
that
overlap
and
and
have
a
very
similar
vision
of
where
the
world
should
go.
Yeah.
The
theory
is,
at
the
top
level.
B
Vmware's
job
in
life
has
been
take
a
bunch
of
messy
chaos
stuff
at
the
bottom
and
provide
some
sort
of
abstraction
layer
that
makes
it
easier
to
manage
cheaper,
more
capital
efficient
and
whether
that
layer
originally
hypervisors
between
the
hardware
and
an
operating
system.
If
you
just
sort
of
squint
a
little
bit,
you
can
imagine
a
layer
right
above
the
different
cloud
services
and
trying
to
make
those
a
little
bit
easier
to
tame
and
use.
Certainly,
I've
done
it
around
networking
capabilities
and
around
storage
capabilities.
B
B
I
think
the
question,
for
I
mean
for
a
lot
of
companies
has
been
how
far
to
the
new
world
you
go
versus
making
sure
you're
taking
along
companies
that
haven't
been
able
to
adopt
and
move
there
as
quickly,
and
I
think
that's
what
that,
whether
it's
I
don't
know
if
hybrid
cloud
is
still
a
cool
name
or
not.
But
but
the
notion
of
sort
of
let's
take
your
on-premises
apps
and
figure
out
a
way
to
help
you
cloudify
them
and
get
them
out
into
the
cloud.
B
That'll
be
the
core
mission
for
a
lot
of
companies
for
the
next
at
least
decade,
if
not
more
you'll
have
the
the
cool
new
kids
that
are
born
in
the
cloud
and
never
have
to
do
their
own
hardware.
But
most
of
the
world
has
a
lot
of
legitimate
reasons
for
having
things
more
at
the
edge
or
in
a
data
center
and.
A
B
Think
that'll
be
where
all
these
strategies
are
zigging
and
zagging
to
get
there
and-
and
I
think
at
the
very
top
level
you
look
at
some
of
the
cool
efforts
from
both
companies
actually
just
on
on
cloud
native
applications.
How
are
people
building
them
and
like
they
could
care
less
about
anything
under
the
covers
and
it'll
go
all
the
way
down
to
much
more
specific
things
like
how
do
I
abstract
out
the
network?
It'll
be
all
those
layers
and
people
will
fight
for?
A
Yeah
so
steve
in
general,
I
try
to
avoid
the
you
know.
Ontological
discussion
of
you
know
what
terms
are
better
or
not,
but
from
a
red
hat
standpoint
hybrid,
is
the
term
we've
been
using
for
more
than
a
decade.
I
did
an
ebook
last
year
that
I'll
I'll
throw
in
the
chat
there,
because
if
I
look
at
my
environment
today,
I
have
a
lot
of
things.
If
I
look
out
two
to
five
years
from
now,
I'll
have
more
things
is
that
hybrid,
my
applications
are
hybrid,
my
infrastructure's
hybrid,
my
tools
are
hybrid.
A
B
A
Thank
you.
Definitely
a
page
turner.
You
won't
want
to.
You
know,
put
it
down
until
you're,
you're
finished
yeah,
so
yeah.
So
you
know
steve.
You've
spent
a
lot
of
your
time.
You
know
looking
at
the
security
model
and
when
I
look
at
you
know,
I
think
about
you
know.
In
the
early
days
of
cloud
it
was
security
was
a
blocker
for
moving
the
cloud.
You
know
the
cloud
doesn't
do
it
the
way
my
enterprise
wants
to
the
bank.
You
know
will
do
things.
A
A
So
if
I've,
you
know
locked
things
down
and
I
haven't
made
any
updates
in
a
couple
of
years,
there's
probably
a
lot
of
vulnerabilities
there
boy,
you
know
when
I
I
came
inside
a
red
hat
and
get
visibility
into
what
happens
in
the
linux
world
to
even
more
depth
than
I'd
seen.
You
know
there's
a
lot
that
goes
on
in
all
of
these
communities
and
open
source.
Now
is
really
the
default
development
model
in
general
and
from
security.
So
maybe
you
know
I'd
love
your
perspective
as,
to
you
know
open
source
and
security.
A
B
Lot
to
yeah
a
lot
to
sort
of
pull
together.
I
think
I
will
say
so.
First
of
all
say
as
an
investor,
I've
picked
cyber
security
as
a
very
key
area
to
spend
most
of
my
time,
I'm
on,
I
think,
eight
boards,
right
now
of
cyber
security
companies
and-
and
that
was
that
was
for
a
lot
of
reasons.
One
I
mean
if
anyone
who's
been
in
the
industry
has
seen
that
it's
not
getting
better.
It's
getting
worse,
that
it's
a
harder
job
to
protect
things
than
ever
before.
B
There's
more
surfaces,
there's
you
and
I
working
from
home
instead
of
in
a
nightly
controlled,
moded
environment.
You
have
all
these
different
things
going
on
that
have
made
it
harder.
I
think
just
the
the
constant
news
about
the
different
types
of
attacks,
especially
right
now
during
ukraine
and
all
the
other
conflicts
that
are
out
there.
The
awareness
of
attacks
is
more
than
ever
and
it's
become
a
board
level
priority
to
have
a
risk
mitigation
program
and
then,
lastly,
for
me,
what
I
really
love
is.
B
A
B
A
investor's
standpoint
fast,
moving
easy
to
adopt
always
has
a
budget
priority.
That's
that's
great
stuff,
but
from
like
how
do
we
make
our
world
advance?
It
is
the
impediment
to
so
many
things
to
the
complete
digitalization
of
everything
we
do
to
our
personal.
I
don't
know
how
many
times
you've
been
hacked,
I'm
a
bit
of
a
target
personally
kind
of
worried
about
identity
theft
and
all
these
different
things.
B
B
B
I
think
transparency
probably
wins
having
more
eyes
on
it
that
are
looking
at
it
and
making
sure
that
you
know
that
nothing
obvious
is
there
or
making
it
easier
for
someone
to
patch.
Should
they
find
a
problem,
all
those
kind
of
well-discussed
areas
of
open
source?
I
think
matter
a
lot,
but
if
you,
if
you
kind
of
take
it
to
the
next
level,
let's,
if
you
take
cloud
and
open
source,
then
you
you
really
get
the
foundation
of
every
new
company.
That's
being
started
right
now.
B
It's
actually
why
it's
a
lot
cheaper
and
easier
to
start
companies
in
the
modern
world,
as
you
can,
you
can
take
the
work,
that's
already
out
there
and
skip
the
first
10
to
12
months
of
just
building
kind
of
some
core
stuff.
But
what
that
means
is
that
you
then
have
so
many
pieces
of
our
industry
and
of
our
ecosystem
that
are
built
on
top
of
someone
else's
stuff,
and
I
think
that
makes
it
a
real
risk.
B
If,
if
there's
a
problem
in
your,
I
guess
now,
we
call
it
the
supply
chain
and
that's
kind
of
what
it
is.
It's
your
software
supply
chain.
If
you
find
security
issues
in
one
package
like
we
have
with,
I
won't
call
out
any
of
the
most
recent
ones,
but
when
there
is
a
a
well-known
and
well-publicized
security
event,
a
substantial
part
of
our
economy
can
be
actually
in
trouble
with
it.
So
it's
a
little
bit
of
a
double-edged
sword.
B
I
think
it
offers
more
opportunities,
but
as
more
people
use
it
and-
and
you
know-
maybe
have
it
built
into
their
products
and
they
don't
have
their
own
expertise.
You
really
have
to
count
on
ways
that
others
are
going
to
be
able
to
help
you
out
patch
it
get
it
out
in
the
systems.
So
it's
it's
a
little
scary,
but
could
happen
with
or
without
open
source
with
or
without
cloud.
A
Yeah-
and
you
know,
one
of
the
things
I
always
found
interesting
is
there's.
There's
many
segments
of
the
it
landscape.
Where
you
know
the
cloud
providers
have
been,
you
know
eating
away
at
you
know
the
available
market.
You
know
you,
you
see,
some
large
cloud
providers
say
hey.
If
you
have
a
great
idea,
why
don't
you
even
come
build
it
with
us?
You
know,
rather
than
you
know,
creating
a
startup
security.
You
know
we
know,
there's
there's
no
silver
bullet.
A
If
you
look
at
you
know
the
layers
that
need
to
go
on
when
I've
talked
to
some
really
large
companies-
and
you
know
like
from
a
red
hat
standpoint-
you
know
we
will
never
say
like
hey.
Our
job
is
done.
You
know,
we've
done
all
of
the
pieces.
We
think
about
security
in
everything
we
do.
We've
been
pushed
big
on
devsecops.
A
You
know
shift
left,
we've
made
acquisitions
in
this
space,
but
you
know
we're
not
saying
like
hey
red
hat,
we're
going
to
be
your
security
piece.
We
have
a
large
ecosystem,
including
many
of
the
companies
that
that
you
know
you
sit
on
the
boards
and
I've
done
investments
on.
So
you
know
it's
a
complicated
messy.
You
know
you,
I
I
hear
your
statement
of
like
hey
every
year.
A
Are
we
more
secure
or
less
secure
and
it
sure
hasn't
felt
like
it's
trending,
you
know
better
so,
and
we've
heard
you
know
how
many
times
has
it
been?
You
know?
Oh,
do
we
need
a
whole
reboot,
you
know
what's
going
on
or
you
know
it's
been
interesting.
You
know,
rsa
conference
is
coming
up
real
soon
and
I
watch
every
year.
There's
the
rsa
show
and
then
there's
like
the
amazon.
B
A
We're
already
doomed
and
the
the
cloud
security
feels
a
little
bit
more
optimistic,
any
advice
or
guidance.
You
know
how,
where
do
you
look
for
companies
that
that
you
know
are,
are
helping
to
move
us
forward?
And
you
know,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
trying
to
you
know,
help
change
that
overall
equation
of
security.
B
A
B
A
great
question:
stu,
there's,
probably
let
me
talk
about
kind
of
four-ish
areas
for
reason
for
optimism
I
mean
certainly
the
overall
thing
about
security
in
general,
you're
selling
on
fear
or
you're
selling
on
risk,
which
is
less
fun
than
selling
here's,
how
to
increase
your
profits,
so
it
is.
It
naturally
has
a
little
bit
more
of
that,
but
it,
but
it
is
such
an
enabler
and
matters
so
much.
Here's
four
or
five
things
that
I
think
are
super
interesting.
B
So,
first
of
all,
just
the
notion
of
the
clouds,
as
you
called
out
originally,
I
think
what
is
fascinating
is
the
security
teams
at
the
top
cloud.
Vendors
are
as
good
as
anywhere
in
the
world
and
there's
a
lot
of
them
and
the
idea
that
you
can
concentrate
such
brains
and
people
and
software
and
tools
in
a
cloud
level
and
then
have
it
apply
to
so
many
companies.
No
individual
company
could
possibly
have
that
that
level
of
security,
so
I
think
there
is
a
notion
of
hardening
something
that's
shared
by
a
lot.
That's
interesting
from.
A
B
Technology
standpoint,
I
think
some
of
the
more
interesting
trends
in
security
that
I
like
are
one
is
you
know
there
is
a
real
notion
of
you
might
hear
it
called
like
appsec
dev
devsec
app.
So
you
might
hear
these
different
things,
but
the
notion
is
getting
more
security
upstream
into
when
developers
are
building
their
applications.
B
The
other
big
movement
that
I
think
is
really
important
is
is
towards
you
hear
it
called
segmentation
or
isolation
and
it
sort
of
falls
under
a
term.
You
might
hear
called
zero
trust,
but
so
long
our
history
of
security
has
been.
How
do
I
keep
something
bad
from
ever
getting
in,
and
we've
proven
that
the
cat
in
the
mouse
game
will
usually
the
mouse
gets
through
at
some
point,
so
instead,
I
think
what
I,
what
I
really
like
is
a
lot
of
companies
have
now
realized.
That
might
happen.
B
Let's
really
focus
on
minimizing
the
impact
when
it
does
get
through,
and
so
there
have
been
a
lot
of
great
companies
and
a
lot
of
great
technologies
growing
up
around
that
you
might
hear
it
talked
to
as
the
submarine
analogy
a
little
bit.
You
want
to
be
able
to
close
all
those
doors
so
that,
if
a
breach
happens
in
the
submarine,
at
least
it
doesn't
flood
the
kitchen
and
everything
else.
B
So
this
notion
of
isolating
off
parts
of
your
data
center
parts
of
your
apps
parts
of
your
thing,
I
think,
is
going
to
be
a
real
key
tool
as
we
go
forward
in
doing
things
and
then.
Lastly,
I
do
think
one
thing
that
we're
seeing
more
and
more
of
is
is
increased
ways
of
sharing
as
good
guys
sharing
technologies,
finding
ways
to
warn
each
other
about
hey,
I'm
also
a
midwest
bank.
I
just
saw
this
attack.
B
You
need
to
turn
on
your
firewall
immediately,
this
notion
of
like,
if
you
think
of
him,
as
like
a
neighborhood
watch
for
the
internet,
I
do
think
will
be
more
and
more
popular
and
it's
a
good
way
to
counteract
what
are
very
organized
attackers.
Nation
states
organized
crime,
so
those
are
just
a
handful
there's
a
lot
of
others,
but
I
think
there's
reason
for
optimism.
You.
A
Know
I
I
love
that
and
that
intersects
with
a
lot
of
what
we
were
talking
about
before,
from
an
open
source,
standpoint,
communities
of
knowledge
being
able
to
share
some
of
those
pieces.
You
know
real,
really
really
important
there
good.
I'm
I'm
glad
you've
got
optimism
there.
I
actually
have
a
question
from
the
audience
curious
what
emerging
cloud
technologies
that
you
think
will
deliver
the
greatest
innovation.
So
a
nice
broad,
you
know
question
you
know
we
can
go
outside
of
security.
I
know
you
know.
A
You've
had
a
strong
focus,
but
you
you
look
at
a
lot
of
areas.
So
anything
you
know
you
just
had
a
child
graduate
from
college
and
you're.
You
know
recommending
either
you
know
people
looking
for
the
next
stage
of
their
career
or
starting
your
career,
something
where
you
say
like
hey.
This
would
be.
You
know
some
really
cool
stuff
that
has
some
legs
yeah.
B
No,
these
are
great
questions.
I
do
think
so.
At
the
first
level,
I
would
say
not
to
not
to
push
this
too
much,
but
cyber
security
will
be
the
best
employer
for
infinite
time
to
come.
It
doesn't
require
a
necessarily
an
advanced
cs
degree.
So
much
as
a
real
practitioner's
knowledge
there
you
every
day,
you
see
the
report
on
how
many
jobs
are
available,
that
we
don't
have
people
to
fill
so
cyber
security,
if
you're,
that
type
of
person
can
be
very
good.
What
I
think
from
the
cloud
technologies.
B
What
I
really
like
this
question,
because
I
really
see
the
world
bifurcating
a
little
bit
into
the
infrastructure
nerves
and
then
the
people
who
could
care
less
and
shouldn't
care
at
all
about
anything
under
the
covers,
and
so
actually
my
favorite
cloud
technologies
are
the
ones
that
just
hide
a
ton
of
complexity
and
just
start
working.
I
still
am
very
optimistic
about
the
future
of
platforms
as
a
service
and
yeah.
B
B
A
Yeah
steve,
obviously,
you
know,
was
one
of
the
things
that
brought
me
to
red
hat.
Is
it
felt
that
we
had
a
you
know
strong
position?
You
know
in
that
overall
discussion
that
that
you
were
talking
about
and
yeah.
You
know
my
background's
all
on
an
infrastructure
standpoint,
and
you
know
I
I
say
it
every
week
is
you
know
the
only
reason
we
have
infrastructure
is
to
run
my
apps
to
understand,
what's
happening
with
my
data
and
all
those
pieces
there.
A
You
know
I
spent
lots
of
time
in
storage
and
networking,
and
you
know
that's
kind
of
you
know
the
plumbing
and
electricity
electrician
type
of
stuff
that
the
business
shouldn't
have
to
think
about.
You
know
it's
it's
that
that
app
modernization,
the
developers
of
things
the
you
know,
drivers
of
technology,
so
you
know
still
huge
growth
in
the
sas
marketplace
and
what
we're
seeing
so
it's.
B
Interesting,
that's
interesting
about
that,
just
to
call
it
out
too,
because
I
think
what's
cyber
security
and
come
back
to
it.
It
is
one
of
the
most
interesting
things
because
it
has
an
explicit
trade-off
between
awareness
or
or
inconvenience
and
how
effective
it
is.
In
general.
I
think
we
always
say
like
the
most.
The
strongest
security
is
when
you're
not
allowed
on
the
internet,
but
but
that's
not
practical.
So
it's
all
about
this
dial
on
where
you
fit.
B
So
I
think
cyber
is
something
that
really
you
have
to
do:
dual
factor,
authentication
or
something
else-
that's
just
kind
of
annoying
as
part
of
that
contract.
I'd
love
to
see
all
that
disappear,
and
I
think
that
is
another
way
to
think
about
where
you
know,
when
you're
done,
you
never
think
about
this
again.
Yeah.
A
Need
to
worry
about
those
kind
of
things
there
we
actually,
you
know.
Of
course
we
got
another
question
about
the
the
broadcom
vmware
piece
and
I
think
ties
into
what
we
were
saying
is:
do
you
think
broadcom
will
keep
allow
vmware
to
keep
investing?
It
says
here
in
microservice
products,
but
you
know
any
advice
that
you
have
for
you
know,
friends
over
in
the
vmware
ecosystem
or
working
for
vmware.
A
B
A
Yeah
so
you
mentioned,
you
know
cyber
security
as
a
space
that
people
might
want
to
do
any.
You
know
what
what
are
the
skill
sets?
You
know
I
I've
been
talking
to
some
younger
people
and
you
know
used
to
be.
You
know,
learn
how
to
code.
You
know
many
people
now
in
the
cloud.
It's
like
hey
understand
how
to
be
an
administrator
we've
got.
You
know
we
need
way
more
sres
and
cloud
admins,
and
you
know
cloud
architects
out
there.
A
So
any
areas
specifically
that
that
you
think
that
some
of
the
base
underlying
skills
could
really
be
used,
and
you
know
there's
things
we
need
to
do
as
as
an
industry
as
a
whole
to
help
make
sure
that
you
know
the
global
market
can
participate.
We
can
raise
those
skill
sets.
We've
seen.
You
know
certain
countries
invest
huge
in
in
certain
technology
areas
that
have
led
to
certain
growth.
So
you
know
we
look
at
the
current
economic
environment
and
sometimes
it's
like
hey.
A
B
Yeah
across
so
zooming
way
out
beyond
just
our
sort
of
cloud
and
this
sort
of
world,
I
I
do
think,
what's
been
super
fascinating
amidst
the
covid
sort
of
relocation
of
people
and
even
before
that
there
was
a
fair
amount
of
globalization
of
software.
What's
what's
even
in
my
own
companies,
the
amount
of
geographical
distribution
across
the
world
of
people
working
on
these
projects
is
10x
what
it
ever
was
and
what
what
excites
me
about?
B
B
You
know
this
is
how
you
write
smart
contracts
for
ethereum
and
there's
people
working
all
over
the
world
and
picking
this
stuff
up,
and
I
think
it's
just
gonna
when
you
look
at
your
neighbor
and
you
see
them
working
on
something
that'll
get
you
interested
in
it.
So
at
a
very
top
top
level.
I
do
think
dispersion
of
technology
and
technologists
is
gonna,
be
really
good
for
the
global
advancement,
and
I
think
that's
really
interesting.
I
think
again.
There's
if
you
look
at,
I
don't
know,
I
don't
know.
B
If
anyone,
I'm
sure
listeners
have
people
applying
for
colleges
when
I
applied
to
school
getting
into
computer
science,
nobody
wanted
to
do
it.
So
it's
pretty
easy.
Now
it's
like
the
top
major
at
most
schools
and
they
can't
even
have
enough
seats
for
it.
So
I
think
that
that
traditional,
like
pretty
academic
approach
to
computer
science,
is
flourishing
and
will
do
well,
but
that
still
can't
touch
anywhere
near
the
number
of
jobs
around
this
that
you
need
so
hands-on
experience.
B
B
A
Yeah
right
and
I
that
that
intellectual
curiosity
is
something
that
that
is
so
important
steve.
You
know
you
look
at
your
career
and
say:
okay,
how
many
distinct
you
know
kind
of
careers.
Have
you
had
you
know
I
it's
not
just
switching
companies,
but
many
people
will
switch
completely.
What
what
what
they're
doing
and
the
the
next
generation
will
have.
Even
more
so
you
mentioned,
you
know,
learning
a
language
doing
ethereum.
A
A
B
A
B
B
A
lot
of
recreation
of
whether
it's
identity,
whether
it's
network,
stack
stuff
that
just
needs
to
get
there.
I
will
say
that
I
am
pretty
fascinated
by
if
you
have
total
distributed
database.
That
has
no
one
explicitly
as
the
choke
point.
What
can
happen
from
that,
and
so
I
think
it's
very
serious.
I
think
if
you
look
at
where
kids
my
own
son's
age
and
if
you
just
talk
to
people
about
what
they're
excited
in
their
early
20s,
this
is
where
a
lot
of
really
smart
people
are
spending
their
time.
B
A
Yes,
so
I
I'll
take
another
question
from
from
the
audience
here.
They
said
anything
that
you
think
is
fading
in
the
enterprise,
and
you
know
I'll
give
my
you
know
my
quick
disclaimer
is
in
I.t.
I
feel
like
nothing
ever
dies.
Everything
is
always
additive,
it
just
you
know,
yeah
how
how
much
time
gets
spent
on
it.
You
talk
about,
you
know,
cs
majors,
there's
still
a
need
for
cobalt
engineers,
so
those
peak
and
valley
but
yeah.
A
B
Calling
out
specific
ones,
I
just
think
sort
of
the
things
that
are
unstoppable
at
this
point
are
one
is
you've
talked
about
this
a
lot
also
stu,
just
the
the
rise
of
developer,
choice
and
power
is
something
there.
I
think
the
notion
of
at
least
for
a
more
advanced
company
telling
the
developers
what
tool
set,
what
platform,
what
everything
they're
going
to
use.
B
I
think
that's
faded
very
substantially
and
I
think
the
the
the
rise
of
the
shift
left
power,
as
you
called
out
as
well,
is
just
it's
going
to
be
affecting
every
single
part
of
infrastructure
from
what
cloud
would
be
deployed
to
to
what
tool
chains
to
what
type
of
security
is
acceptable,
so
alternatives
another.
Maybe
it's
not
what's
fading,
but
I
think
it's
anything
that
is
anti-developer
is
going
to
have
a
lot
of
troubles
as
we
continue
to
emerge
into
the
new
world.
A
B
B
So
I
think
I
think
probably
the
most
interesting
thing
I
certainly
have
talked
to
everyone
I
can
about
is
just
find
a
love
of
learning,
find
a
real
curiosity
and
whether
it's
doing
a
show
like
this
and
talking
to
interesting
people,
whether
it's
picking
up
the
book
and
reading
it,
whether
it's
trying
out
solidity,
I'm
a
terrible
programmer
at
this
point
to
be
clear.
But
I
want
my
brain
to
be
kind
of
stretched
and
have
some
empathy
for
these
things.
A
A
You
know
it's
fascinating,
that
you
say
that
you
know
mendel
and
the
team
all
were
reading
about
ibm.
You
know
my
boss,
dave
vellante
said:
that's
how
you
know
the
external
storage
industry
started
too.
They
read,
you
know
what
was
happening
with
mainframe
storage
and
you
know
decided
to
make
something
that
would
be
open
storage
outside.
So
you
know
we
all
stand
on
the
on
the
shoulders
of
the
giants
that
came
before
us
in
the
tech
industry
yeah.
You
know
you
you
mentioned
in
the
in
the
greater
ecosystem.
B
A
Yeah
maverick
I
I
I
am
planning
to
see
it.
I
I've
heard
a
lot
of
things.
The
disclaimer,
I
would
say,
is
if
you
have
not
seen
the
original
just
realize
that
it
was
set
in
the
80s,
so
certain
things
that
were
kind
of
more
commonplace
and
the
dynamics
between
men
and
women
and
what
was
acceptable
there
is,
you
know,
maybe
not
as
a
proper.
B
B
A
Trying
to
be
overall,
you
know
a
little
bit
more
understanding,
so
it
it's
good.
Sometimes
when
you
see
the
progress
that
we
have
made,
I
heard
there's
a
couple
of
cameos
that
I'd
be
excited
to
see
in
in
in
the
new
movie.
So
yeah,
it's
awesome
and
you
know
things
are
opening
up
steve
yeah.
Are
you
getting
to
any
like
conferences,
traveling
doing
any,
that
sort
of
thing
a
little
bit.
B
I
mean
think
like
everyone
else,
it
sort
of
fits
and
starts.
You
do
a
little
bit,
then
you
find
out
through
your
friends
got
covered.
Then
you
pull
back
and
then
you,
I
think
we're
all
kind
of
in
this
fits
and
starts
part
right
now
I
mean
rsa
in
many
ways
might
be
the
covet
sandwich,
certainly
what
kind
of
started
it
in
the
tech
industry.
A
No
steve,
absolutely
that
was
actually
one
of
the
earliest
flags
for
me
is.
I
was
talking
it
was
before
I
joined
red
hat
and
was
talking
to
friends
at
red
hat
and
they're
like
yeah
we're
not
allowed
to
go
to
rsa
conference.
We've
been
told,
there's
too
much
risk
for
the
covid
back
in
2020,
so
that
was
you
know.
The
first
show
that
that
I
knew
of
that
really
everybody
pulled
out
and
then
mobile
world
congress
and
many
others.
I
I've
been
a
couple
of
shows
so
yeah
steve.
A
I
think
we're
going
to
wrap
it
up
there.
I
want
to
wish
everybody.
You
know.
Please
do
stay
safe
out
there,
hopefully
you're
getting
connected,
seeing
some
more
people
do
please.
You
know
smash
that
like
and
subscribe
button
here
on
the
on
the
video
and
our
channel.
We
do
run
these
every
two
weeks.
If
there
is
a
topic
or
guest
that
you
think
would
be
great.
You
know
please
do
reach
out
to
me.
A
I'm
super
easy
to
find
I'm
just
at
stu
on
twitter,
I'm
stu
redhat.com
for
email
and
we'll
be
back.
You
know
in
a
couple
weeks
with
with
more
topic
here
you
know
be
watching.
You
know
what
what
happens
with
the
whole
vmware
broadcom
thing
is
that
rolls
out,
you
know,
expect
it'll
take
you
know
at
least
six
months
for
that
to
really
play
and
steve.
Thank
you
again
so
much.
Thank
you
to
the
audience
and
we
will
see
you
next
time.