►
Description
Can a tech podcast help prepare for the future? Tune in to find out as Angela Andrews, co-host from Compiler, an original podcast from Red Hat, joins host Stu Miniman to discuss how Kubernetes, cloud, and dating apps make a podcast. Angela and Stu will also chat about how cloud creates flexibility, planning for scale, meeting user needs with dynamic infrastructure, and much more. In addition to her podcast work, Angela has hosted Red Hat Summit and has years of experience as a Red Hat Solution Architect for NAPS and systems administrator, as well as working with VMware, storage, server administration, databases, support, and more. And if you haven't listened to it yet, Compiler covers various topics related to technology and culture, chatting with experts and practitioners about open source, hackathons, DevOps, hiring, and so much more. If you're a Compiler fan, are looking for your next podcast, or want to know how cloud computing and open source technologies can help meet unique business challenges, be sure to join us for this episode.
Want to learn more?
https://www.redhat.com/en/compiler-podcast?sc_cid=7013a000002qG16AAE
https://www.redhat.com/en/compiler-can-kubernetes-help-people-find-love?sc_cid=7013a000002qG16AAE
https://www.redhat.com/en/compiler-podcast/betting-wrong-on-future?sc_cid=7013a000002qG16AAE
Try Red Hat OpenShift: https://red.ht/3Haxapr
Follow us:
Stu Miniman https://twitter.com/stu
Angela Andrew https://twitter.com/scooterphoenix
OpenShift https://twitter.com/openshift
Subscribe to Red Hat's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/redhat/?sub_confirmation=1
About OpenShift:
Red Hat OpenShift is an open source container application platform based on the Kubernetes container orchestrator for enterprise application development and deployment.
OpenShift on redhat.com https://red.ht/3JBaOia
OpenShift on GitHub https://github.com/openshift/
#RedHat #OpenShift #HybridCloud
A
B
B
C
A
A
To
a
podcast
this
time,
I'm
Stu
miniman
your
host
and
I'm
really
happy
to
welcome
Solutions
architect
and
co-host
of
the
compiler
podcast
Angela
Andrews
Angela.
Welcome
back
to
in
the
clouds.
You
were
a
guest
on
the
program
back
in
the
Chris
short
era
of
it.
So
great
to
see
you
again,
how
are
you
oh.
A
A
It
was
really
good
to
be
able
to
see
a
lot
of
people
in
person,
but
yeah
it's
great
to
be
finally
meeting
and
talking
to
you
know
more
of
the
red
Hatters
which
gosh
I'm
over
a
year
and
a
half
here
at
the
company.
Maybe
if
you
could
Angela
just
you
know,
the
the
trailer
for
compiler
gave
a
little
bit
of
intro
of
the
podcast,
but.
B
A
F
My
role
here,
like
you
mentioned
I,
am
a
solution
architect
here
covering
the
federal
financial
space.
I've
been
a
red
Hatter
since
May
the
4th
shout
out
to
your
helmet
behind
you
and
I
really
enjoy
engaging
and
interacting
with
my
customers.
Com
coupled
with
compiler
I
think
I
have
one
of
the
best
jobs
in
the
world.
F
My
background
is
as
a
systems
administrator
and
I
was
in
higher
ed
for
15
plus
years
managing
Windows
Linux.
You
know
all
that
and
I
wanted
a
career
change
back
in
2018.,
I
loved
to
code
I
was
active
in
my
clothing
community,
so
I
went
to
a
full
stack
coding,
boot
camp
and
at
the
as
the
end
approached
I
was
like
I'm
a
much
better
assistant.
Man
than
I
am
a
developer,
so
I
got
another
assistant
man
job
and
then
something
happened.
A
fellow
redhead
accelerator
brought
me.
F
A
No,
that
that's
awesome
and
you
know
having
that
really
practitioner.
Experience
I'm
sure
gives
you
a
wonderful
perspective.
As
you're
talking
to
our
customers,
I
tell
you.
I've
worked
Lots
over
the
years
with
some
of
our
government
in
education
space,
and
it's
really
interesting.
I
tell
you
in
my
previous
World
when
I
used
to
do
lots
and
lots
of
interviews.
A
You
know
you
talk
to
somebody
in
like
government
or
education
and
they'd,
be
like
oh
many
times,
you're
constrained
on
budget,
but
sometimes
you
can
actually
be
Leading.
Edge
on
technology
I
had
a
CIO
of
a
town
that
I
interviewed.
That
was
just
one
that
really
stuck
with
me
as
to
you
know,
you've
got
so
many
constituents.
You've
got
limited
budget,
but
you
could
do
some
really
cool
things
to
help.
You
know
the
local
populace
leveraging
technology
and,
of
course
that's
something
that
red
hat.
You
know
we.
F
A
Okay,
it's
we
were
talking
a
little
bit
about.
You
know
things
opening
up
a
little
bit.
You
know
not
just
doing
you
know
virtual
webinars
and
things
behind
the
camera
or
podcasts,
but
you
know
we've
started
to
have
some
events
going
on.
What
what?
What
have
you
have?
You
done
any
travels
recently,
any
any
things
that
you've
been
doing.
Yes,.
F
So
was
it
the
day
before
yesterday,
I
am
emceed
ansible
automates
here
in
DC.
That
was
phenomenal.
The
week
before
that
I
was
out
in
San
Francisco
attending
pluralsight
link
pluralsight
is
the
big
training
company
and
they
had
a
really
nice
conference
and
a
few
weeks
before
that
I
was
at
Summit
in
Boston,
so
I'm
actually
getting
my
legs
up
under
me
and
getting
back
out
there
more
and
more
meeting
my
customers
meeting
compiler
fans,
a
gentleman
I
was
having
a
conversation
with
him
and
he
was
like
wow
you're.
F
He
said
I
feel
like
I
know
you
from
somewhere
and
as
the
conversation
went
on
and
on,
he
was
like
you're
from
compiler.
Aren't
you
and
I
was
like
yes,
that
had
never
happened
before
so
I
I.
Think
I'm
gonna
probably
hear
that
more
now,
the
more
the
more
that
I
go
out
of
the
house.
People
might
know
who
I
am
so
yeah.
A
Welcome,
maybe
people
will
be
hearing
your
voice
and
be
like
wait.
That
sounds
really
familiar
even
though
I
I
I
I
wonder
one
of
the
challenges
I
had
when
I
listened
to
podcasts
a
lot
of
times,
I
listen
to
one
and
a
half
speed.
So
when
I
meet
somebody
in
person,
they
sound
a
little
bit
different
I
had
a
couple
of
run-ins
with
people
that
I
talked
to.
It
was
like.
Oh
wait.
No
I'm
used
to
listening
to
you
at
a
much
faster
speed.
So
let
me
readjust
what
I'm.
A
A
All
right,
so
we
want
to
talk
to
sports.
So
what
I
love
Angela?
We
were
looking
through
the
catalog
of
compiler
and
you
have
you
know
a
number
of
episodes
that
kind
of
intersect
with
the
topics
that
we
talk
about
here
in
the
clouds
you
know,
kubernetes
comes
up,
you
know,
Cloud
comes
up,
so
what
we
have
is.
There
are
two
episodes
that
we're
gonna
walk
through
a
little
bit
have
a
little
bit
of
conversation,
and
you
know,
let's
see
how
this
goes
with
sharing
a
little
bit
of
Clips.
A
B
F
F
A
Yeah
for
next
year-
maybe
you
know
have
me
on
the
program
when
you
do
a
Star,
Wars
Episode,
because
you
know
I
wore
a
Star,
Wars
shirt
when
we
did.
You
know
the
episode
for
May
the
fourth
week
and
as
you
pointed
out
my
background,
you
know
Big
Star,
Wars
fan
here.
So
maybe,
if
we
can
tee
up,
you
know
the
first
clip
here
from
yeah
from
from
The
Love
episode
and
that
then
we
can
discuss
a
little
bit
more
awesome.
E
D
G
C
F
Planning
for
something
you're
planning
for
some
level
of
interaction
with
your
application.
That's
the
Target
that
you're
trying
to
hit
yeah,
but
there
are
times
when
you
can't
imagine
yeah
how
popular
your
application
is
going
to
get
so.
The
infrastructure
that
your
application
is
running
on
may
not
have
taken
that
into
consideration.
Like
you
consider
the
the
best
case
scenario,
but
sometimes
the
success
of
your
application
can
well
surpass
that.
So
how
do
you?
How
do
you
deal?
You
have
to
have
the
infrastructure
that
can
scale.
A
Cool
so
one
of
my
favorite
things
to
talk
about
in
the
cloud
space
Angela
Wright
is
I.
Think
if
you
think
about
the
maturity
of
solutions
overall-
and
this
word
scale
so
scale
means
a
lot
of
things
to
a
lot
of
people
but
as
as
I'm
talking
to
to
customers.
Often,
you
know
how
do
they
get
started
and
there's
a
real
unknown
as
to
what
they're
going
to
need
and
as
the
clip
talked
about,
how
do
I
scale
up
when
do
things
scale
down?
A
It
is
one
of
those
key
things
that
I
need
to
think
about
when
I
go
to
the
cloud
and
one
of
the
benefits
of
cloud
is
I
should
be
able
to
scale
things
down
when
I
don't
need
them,
and
if
things
go
unexpectedly,
you
know
I
I
can
scale
up
what
what
what
bring
us
inside
a
little
bit.
You
know
the
episode
and
your
experiences
when
we
talk
about
things
like
scale.
B
F
When
I
think
scale
I
automatically
think
cloud
out
there
in
the
cloud
now,
of
course,
scaling
happens,
on-prem
as
well
right,
but
Cloud
provides
that
flexibility
and
scalability
that
very
few
on-prem
clouds.
Private
clouds
can
give
you
so
at
least
it
buys
you
that,
and
using
that
cloud
you
know,
as
a
data
center
really
provides
you
with
the
capacity
you
need
to
do
what
needs
to
be
done
so,
for
example,
in
the
episode
as
we
go
on
in
the
episode
you're
wondering
well,
how
does
kubernetes
help
you
find
love?
F
Well,
if
your
app
running
on
kubernetes
gets
this
huge
influx
of
users
and
activity
and
sign
ups
and
you're
you're
planning
for
it,
but
maybe
you
didn't
realize
that
it
was
going
to
go
viral.
Having
your
application
run
on
a
container
orchestration
platform
like
kubernetes
and
having
it
run
in
the
cloud
can
underpin
and
help
that
scale,
so
your
customers
won't
miss
a
beat.
They
won't
realize
that
wow
I'm
now
here
with
you
know,
maybe
thousands
or
maybe
millions
of
other
folks
at
this
one
particular
time
so
Cloud
really
does
provide
that
flexibility.
F
A
Well,
Angela,
you
were
recently
at
that
ansible
event,
I'm
sure
the
general
discussion
of
Automation
and
how
that
fits
into
the
overall
discussion.
What
was
a
key
thing,
because
it's
we
probably
don't
even
talk
about
it
enough,
you
know
kubernetes,
is
really
built
with
automation.
As
you
know,
it's
not
something
I
bolt
on
at
the
end.
It's
you
know
we're
going
to
have
automation.
That's
when
I
need
to
be
able
to
scale.
It
can't
be!
Oh
wait.
You
know
some
Spike
spike
came
in.
Let's
get
a
support
ticket
in
and
take
care
of
it.
A
F
Agreed-
and
you
know
again
the
episode
it
plays
a
funny-
it
makes
it
funny
and
approachable
and
we're
using
the
dating
app
as
an
example,
but
this
applies
to
all
applications,
whatever
application
you're
running,
no
matter
what
the
app
size
you
you
know
in
the
old
days
and
I
can
say
the
old
days.
You
know
you
would
think
about.
F
Oh
I
have
to
buy
enough
capacity
to
get
me
going
for
the
next
three
to
five
years
and
with
you
know,
with
the
influx
of
you
know,
Services
running
in
the
cloud,
you
really
don't
have
to
worry
about
those
expenditures.
The
way
that
you
used
to,
because
sometimes
you'd
get
them
wrong
right
and
you
know
you'd
run
out
of
storage,
you'd
run
out
of
capacity
and
I
think
moving
into
this
new
paradigm,
not
even
a
new
paradigm,
but
this
shift
has
really
given
people
the
flexibility
that
we
didn't
have.
A
Yeah,
it's
interesting
I
see
a
couple
of
comments
coming
in
there.
There's
one
that
you
know
I
want
to
I
want
to
bring
up.
It
says:
eks
are
on-prem
kubernetes,
which
one
is
better
and
Angela
yeah
I'll
I'll
start
just.
You
were
talking
about
that
flexibility.
Here's
one
of
the
things
you
know
we
as
people
tend
to
be
really
really
bad
at
forecasting
the
future
so
or
the
weather
yeah
or
so
so
so
you
know,
hopefully,
I
have
a
relatively
good
understanding
of
what
my
infrastructure
and
applications
look
like
today.
A
But
if
you
try
to
plan
out
hey
what
are
things
going
to
look
like
in
one
two
three
years
out
all
I
know
is
we
keep
adding
things
and
we
need
to
be
able
to
have
flexibility,
and
that's
so
you
know
we
can
all
debate
how
much
we're
going
to
move
to
the
cloud.
How
much
is
going
to
stay
in
the
data
center?
The
reality
is,
and
I
did
an
ebook
on
this
last
year.
A
Is
your
environment
is
hybrid
today,
which
means
I
have
lots
of
environments,
and
you
know
you
want
to
talk
about
scale,
let's
start
putting
the
edge
into
scale.
You
know
you
I'm
sure
you
sought
Summit,
we
had
a
big
announcement
with
General
Motors
I
did
an
interview
on
on
this
program
a
couple
months
ago.
A
Talking
about
you
know
the
space
station
and
satellites
and
some
of
the
edge
deployments
we
have
so
you
know
even
more
hybrid
and
more
things
that
I
need
to
be
able
to
do
and
kubernetes
is
being
built
to
be
able
to
handle
all
of
those
environments.
So
so
I
don't
look
at
it
as
an
either
or
it's
the
data
center,
the
public
cloud,
of
course,
from
a
red
hat
standpoint.
You
know
we
strongly
believe
openshift
is
the
answer
to
help
you
in
all
those
environments.
A
F
A
H
So
we
kind
of
talked
about
some
of
the
use
cases.
The
kind
of
fear
of
success
use
cases
where
maybe
you've
already
built
the
application,
and
you
kind
of
get
that
Viral
moment
where
people
are
coming
to
your
platform,
logging
in
trying
to
use
it
and
you
want
it
to
scale
and
stay
up.
Another
big
part
of
the
story,
though,
is
about
supporting
Innovation
and
time
to
Market,
and
a
lot
of
that
relies
on
that
same
level
of
standardization
and
dynacism
with
your
infrastructure.
H
So
in
this
case,
if
you
have
a
lot
of
different
ideas,
especially
in
these
emerging
user
experiences,
people
are
trying
different
ways
to
connect
with
customers
and
users.
Trying
different
features
experimenting
it's
important
to
have
a
platform,
and
if
it's
structure
that
platform
that
can
support
that
experimentation
and
that
Innovation
and
with
a
proper
approach,
you
can
really
accelerate
both
your
time
to
Market
and
the
ability
to
experiment
with
these
different
features
and
user
experiences.
A
A
Then
there's
a
there's,
a
comment
from
Dwayne
here
that,
if
we
pull
up
to
it
said
so,
scaling
properly
should
match
an
Roi
for
a
customer
which
is
an
interesting
comment.
I'd
love
your
thoughts
on
it
Angela
because
you
know
we
need
to
think
about
architecture
and
what
costs
are
when
we
go
to
a
cloud
because
all
of
a
sudden,
if
we
get
you
know
a
ton
of
you
know
things
scaling
that
is
going
to
cost
us
more.
A
F
So
to
Dwayne's
point
it
should
really
match.
You
know
it
should
match
what
the
business
needs
are
if
your
business
doesn't
require
that
level
of
availability,
if
it
doesn't
require
that
level
of
redundancy,
you
really
can
be
very
prescriptive
in
how
you
keep
your
costs
down,
so
if
it
doesn't
allow
for
it,
why
would
you
why
would
you
want
to
spin
up
an
Amazon?
You
know
type
application
when
you
may
have
two
thousand
three
thousand
customers.
F
It
doesn't
make
sense
you
architect
properly
for
for
the
number
of
users
and
your
customers,
and
you
have
that
scalability
in
in
that
particular
in
that
particular
instance.
It's
not
all
apples
and
apples.
It's
apples,
bananas,
oranges,
it
depends.
That's
that's
one
of
my
favorite
words
as
an
essay.
It
depends,
but
so
yeah
that
it
really
it
really
matches
what
the
business
needs
are
versus
scaling
and
having
all
of
this
infrastructure
available.
Just
for
the
sake
of
having
it.
A
Yeah
I
mean
Angela.
It's
such
an
important
thing
you
bring
up
because
if,
if
I
think
about
you
know,
cost
management
from
a
customer
standpoint,
The
Challenge
in
the
data
center
was
how
much
do
I
buy,
did
I
forecast
properly,
because
I
really
understand
what
my
costs
are
going
to
be.
The
challenge
in
the
cloud
is
how
do
I
architect
things
and
do
I
understand
the
architecture
and
what
that
will
mean
to
the
cost,
because
there's
nothing
worse
than
oh
wait.
A
I
got
the
bill
for
last
month
and
something
went
haywire
and
didn't
realize
that
you
know
thousands
of
dollars
more,
that
I
wasn't
expecting
so
getting
that
under
control,
I
I
think
there's
more
more
Tools
in
place.
There's
the
general.
You
know
approach
of
like
phenopsa
to
help
customers
with
that.
But
it
is
something
that
you
know.
We've
reached
a
certain
maturity,
but
there's
still
there's
still
a
bit
of
opaqueness
when
it
comes
to
the
cloud
so
many
times,
I
had
somebody
on
my
team
architected.
B
F
That
that
is
so.
That
is
such
a
real
world
example.
Think
of
a
lot
of
companies
are
having
these
same
discussions,
especially
in
that
first
iteration
when
you're,
when
you're
architecting
it
out
and
you're
trying
to
get
a
feel
for
well.
What
will
this
look
like?
It's
really
hard
to
guess
those
Ingress
and
egress
charges
how
much
storage
you're
going
to
use
how
much
actual
capacity
you'll
need
from
one
day
to
the
next
one
hour
to
the
next
and
sometimes,
unfortunately,
you
know
in
in
this
current
model.
F
We
kind
of
cross
our
fingers
and
we
wait
for
that
first
bill
and
hope
we
got
it
right.
I
mean
forecasting
and
trying
to
figure
out
billing
in
in
the
cloud
is
challenging
for
everyone.
So
you
know
no
one's
alone
in
that,
but
you
really
do
have
to
understand
again
your
workloads
and
what
your
overall
costs
are,
and
you
really
try
to
do
your
best
to
do
the
math
and
stay
within
those
constraints,
because
I've
heard
those
horror
stories
about
those
bills.
F
B
F
How
cute
was
that
right?
It
was.
It
was
so
fitting
for
Valentine's
Day.
You
know
if
you're
looking
for
love-
and
you
know
you're
out
there
scrolling
trying
to
find
that
match
you're.
Quite
possibly,
your
dating
app
is
running
on
some
sort
of
container
orchestration,
especially
when
you
know,
as
it
said
in
the
episode.
What
time
of
day
are
the
most
popular
times
of
days.
You
know,
and
you
want
to
make
sure
that
your
application
is
responsive
to
the
east
coast
and
as
that
as
the
sun
moves.
F
A
C
G
Know
usually,
when
you've
got
a
big
new
feature
and
there's
you
know,
there's
different
types:
you've
got
a
little
bug
fix
on
a
single
page
of
the
website
and
then
you've
got
I'm.
Adding
video
chat,
that's
a
big
feature.
You
might
need
10
or
15
people
working
on
it,
that's
a
new
service
and
it
might
be
Loosely
integrated
and
one
of
the
things
about
kubernetes
that
makes
it
really
powerful
is
yeah.
G
Kubernetes
is
helping
you
roll
out
bug
fixes
to
your
existing
stuff,
but
if
you've
got
a
completely
new
type
of
function
like
a
web,
a
video
chat
and
that's
a
new
team
and
a
new
service
that
team
can
kind
of
onboard
and
they
can
be
testing
video
chat
before
everybody
sees
it.
So
you
know
kubernetes
lets
you
get
the
environment
set
up
and
you
can
go
be
testing
it
for
a
limited
set
of
users
like
your
beta
users
or
your
internal
users.
A
E
A
Yeah
it's
interesting
stuff.
Yeah
I
mean
one
of
the
things
when
I
I
always
hear
from
my
security
friends.
Is
you
know
how
do
we
get
better
at
getting
people
on
the
latest
technology?
So
you
know
we
we
can't
be.
You
know
too
far
behind
on
the
patches
and
especially
that's
something
that
we,
you
know
we
at
Red
Hat
spend
a
lot
of
time.
F
F
It
just
makes
it
easier,
because
now
it's
almost
like
second
nature,
when
we're
talking
about
those
new
features
having
the
ability
to
run
your
test
and
prod
and
stage
on
the
same
platform
where
everything
looks
the
same
Everything
feels
the
same
and
having
it
work
its
way
through
those
different
stages
is
integral.
You
know
you
want
a
smaller
subset
of
users
getting
their
hands
on
these
new
features,
and
you
don't
want
it
to
impact.
You
know
the
the
rest
of
your
production
or
the
the
rest
of
the
development
Innovation.
F
That's
going
on,
so
it
containerization
in
kubernetes
really
makes
this
possible
because
it's
not
like
the
old
days
where
to
do
an
update.
You
know
you'd
have
to
plan
for
months
and
you
couldn't
do
a
lot
of
updates
and
you
had
to
patch
once
a
quarter,
no
dead,
that
we
don't
do
that
anymore
in
in
this
new.
You
know
with
devops
and
with
containerization
and
kubernetes.
F
A
Right
and
Angela
it's
interesting
because
you
know
kubernetes
is
not
some.
You
know
magic
wand
that
solves
everything.
I
was
actually
I.
I
was
getting
to
listen
to
some
customers
that
were
using
some
other
kubernetes
Solutions
out
there
and
I
was
a
little
bit
disturbed
because
they
said
well.
We
have
the
developers
there
do
their
things
in
their
environment,
but
then,
when
we
want
to
take
it
into
production,
we
need
to
go.
A
You
know,
add
the
you
know:
identity,
management,
security
and
all
these
other
things,
and
it
was
a
big
process
and
lift
that
they
had,
which
is
not.
You
know,
just
philosophically
how
we
approach
things
is
we
want
your
development
environment
should
look
like
your
production
environment,
because
otherwise
that's
where
we
had
that
Schism
between
oh
I,
threw
it
over
the
wall
and
something
didn't
work
right
or
it
wasn't
how
I
expected
it's
like.
No,
no,
as
you
said
today's
environment,
it's
you
know,
Dev
and
prod.
You
know
we
should
look
the
same.
A
We
should
access
the
image
it
should
be
there.
You
know
that
the
whole
devops
movement
was
to
bring
all
of
those
pieces
together
and
bring
div
SEC
options
that
we're
thinking
about
security
through
the
end.
Not
oh,
okay,
we
did
our
development
now
we
need
to
go
through
everything
else.
Now
that
takes
too
long.
It
doesn't
it
it.
It
is
wasted
effort
that
that
we
we
need
to
worry
about
so
it's
cool
and
it
sets
up
we're
going
to
transition
to
talk
about
the
next
episode.
A
One
of
my
favorite
topics
is
just
Innovation.
You
know
it's
when
we
think
about
the
cloud.
You
know
the
cloud
is
supposed
to
get
us
away
from
some
of
the
undifferentiated
heavy
lifting,
so
that
I
can
focus
on
that
that
Innovation
that
I
want
to
create
and
we're
still
we're
getting
there.
You
know
when
I
think
about.
Overall,
you
know
how
much
time
do
companies
spend
on
you
know
the
toil.
You
know
it
used
to
be
wiring
things
up
and
you,
while
you
might
not
have
the
physical,
you
know
cabling
and
plugs
anymore.
A
Sometimes
in
the
cloud
you
can
do
some
of
the
same
things
that
I'm
doing
the
same
efforts
over
and
over
rather
than
worrying,
about
the
specific
business
things
I
have
so,
let's
tee
up
the
first
clip
we'll
get
into
a
discussion
of
you
know,
Innovation.
This
episode
is
how
bad
is
betting
wrong
on
the
future.
I
I
really
love
this
episode.
This.
E
Well,
let's
talk
about
the
future
a
little
bit
here.
Are
you
sure
right?
Because
this
is
something
that
you
know
we
have
to
make
decisions
here
and
now
and
a
lot
of
those
a
lot
of
the
decisions
that
we
have
to
make
about.
You
know
the
products
that
we're
building
or
the
technologies
that
we're
using.
We
have
to
be
able
to
look
out
into
the
future
and
make
a
really
good
guess
about
what
the
future
is
going
to
be,
and
this
is
really
difficult
right.
Yes,.
F
I
know
it
is
because
you
can
there.
There
are
companies
who
you
think
about
it.
They
have
this
product.
That
is
tends
to
become
ubiquitous
and
they
do
just
one
thing:
I,
don't
want
to
say
wrong,
but
kind
of
going
away
from
where
people
think
technology
should
go
you're
heading
in
the
right
direction,
but
you
make
one
false
move
and
you've
definitely
fallen
off
a
cliff,
so
it
it's.
D
F
B
And
how
do
we
don't
know
what
that
is,
so
someone's
gonna
take
a
bet
on
something
and
they're
going
to
lose.
That
bet,
and
that
has
to
happen,
I
think
in
order
for
technology
to
move
in
the
right
direction.
I
know
if
it
doesn't
sound
like
it
makes
sense,
but
someone
has
to
lose
in
this
scenario,
because
every
good
idea
can't
be
the
right
idea
right.
So
that's
just
my
opinion
about
it.
There
has
to
be
some
winners
and
losers
when
we're
talking
about
the
future.
A
A
Let
me
start
now
where
it
is
flipped
that
things
are
changing
so
fast
that
hey,
if
you
could
wait
another
six
to
12
months,
there'll
be
a
next
iteration
of
something
or
some
other
new
technology
that
I
might
want
to
be
jump
on,
but
I
can't
wait
forever.
So
I
do
need
to
start
with
what
I
have
the
here
and
now
and
go
forward.
So
you
know,
when
is
a
technology
mature
enough
to
make
a
bet
on
it?
A
You
know
how
important
is
that
in
the
overall
decision
you
know,
companies
today
in
in
general
seem
to
be
a
little
bit
more
willing
to
bet
on
something
that
you
know
isn't
tried
and
true
for
decades,
because
you
know
otherwise
you're
going
to
be
left
behind.
If
you
can't
make
some
bets
and
and
move
forward
to
take
advantage
of
newer
Technologies.
F
But
you
watch
your
users,
they
stop
interfacing
with
you.
They
may
be
moving
on
to
this
other
feature,
other
service
and
you're.
Now,
in
the
position
of
where
it
talks
about
falling
off
this
Cliff,
how
do
you
future
proof
against
falling
off
the
cliff?
The
first
thing
is,
you
have
to
be
nimble
and
how
do
you
be
nimble?
You
have
to
take
some
risks,
but
you
definitely
do
it
with
open
source.
F
So
I
think
there's
there's
a
lot
of
pieces
in
there
where
you
have
to
be
able
to
iterate
and
use
those
tools
that
are
out
there.
You
have
to
listen
to
your
users,
that's
a
huge
part
of
it,
but
I
I
love
the
falling
off
the
cliff
metaphor,
because
you
know
we
want
to
get
close.
We
want
to
see
over
the
edge.
F
We
want
to
see
how
far
we
can
take
something,
but
sometimes
we
have
to
take
those
bets
and
if
we're
lucky
and
and
I
think
you'll
hear
this
later
on
in
the
episode
where,
if
yours,
if
the
bets
you're
taking,
are
much
more
iterative
and
not
jumping
ahead,
where
you
could
possibly
do
yourself
damage,
there's
there's
a
lot
of
different
nuances
in
there.
But
this
episode
talks
about
all
of
them.
So
make
sure
you
listen.
A
Yeah
Angela,
you
know
I
I've
when
I
think
back
earlier
in
my
career.
You
know
if
you
were
working
on
a
piece
of
software
and
you
were
on
an
18-month
Release
Train,
so
much
relied
on
things
going
right
did
I
get
the
right
feature,
because
if
you
didn't
get
on
that
train,
it
was
real
trouble
or
if
something
didn't
work
you
know,
then
we
were
struggling
and
things
light
up
today
you
know,
most
people
are
in
more
of
a
kind
of
a
cicd
environment,
so
I
can
do
smaller.
A
Increments
I
can
have
more
experimental
features
that
are
out
there,
and
you
know,
one
of
the
balances
we
see
is
I
can
actually
have
speed,
while
not
being
less
secure.
So
that
was
the
thing
that
you
know.
We
really
look
at
the
whole
devops
space
and
what's
Happening
Here
is
I,
can
move
faster,
but
I
can
do
it
safely.
I
can
do
it
reliably
if
I
have
the
right
processes
if
I
have
the
right
culture
in
place
and
I
do
love
your
call
out
for
for
open
source
there.
A
Of
course,
you
know
at
Red
Hat
we're
heavily
involved,
and
you
know
there's
so
much
when
I
look
at
in
you
know
the
cloud
native
environment
that
you
know
I
live
in
being
part
of
openshift.
You
know
it's
still
like
at
least
once
a
month.
There's
some
new
project
coming
up.
That's
like
oh
geez,
I've,
never
heard
of
that.
You
know
we
need
to
evaluate
that.
Do
we
participate
paid
in
it.
A
It
is
something
that
we
will
pull
into
our
product
line
and
that's
something
that
that
we
constantly
need
to
look
at,
because
to
your
point
too,
if
I
can't
respond
to
what
my
customers
need,
somebody
else
will
so,
whether
it's
something
that'll
be
additive
to
your
product
or
eventually,
if
there's
enough
drift,
they
might
leave
you
to
go
to
something
else,
and
it
in
general
is
easier
to
make
those
moves
today.
You
know
ever
than
it
was
before
all
right,
so
yeah
you
bring
up
not
making.
A
E
C
It's
kind
of
like
earlier
when
I
was
talking
about
buying
a
testing
environment
for
your
applications
and
I'm.
Definitely
not
the
expert
in
this,
but
I
think
what
he's
trying
to
get
at
is
that
a
lot
of
Founders
get
into
a
situation
where
they
have
not
a
plan,
but
a
list
of
desirable
things
that
they
want
to
do
and
a
list
of
things
that
they
need
in
order
to
do
them
and
they
kind
of
go
from
there.
So
you
want
to
do
something
as
cheap
as
possible
and
as
fast
as
possible.
C
You
don't
want
to
blow
your
budget
on
something
that
only
gets
you
from
point
A
to
not
point
B.
You
want
to
get
to
the
next
step
to
development
and
eventual
release
as
soon
and
as
fast
as
possible.
So
some
of
the
examples
here
he
talks
about
prototyping
and
testing.
It's
something
that's
really
important,
because
you
also
need
to
know
what
your
user
wants
just
trying
to
find
out
the
deliverables
and
the
functional
requirements
you
have
listed.
You
have
to
find
out
what
users
want
and
match
those
up
to
what
you
want
to
deliver.
A
Yeah
and
so
many
so
many
thoughts
going
through
my
head
here,
Angela
because
right
on
the
one
hand,
I
need
to
be
able
to
test
things,
and
it
needs
to
be
okay
to
fail.
If
there's
a
feature,
that's
not
going
to
work,
you
need
to
be
able
to
pull
the
plug.
You
need
to
be
able
to.
You
know
let
a
thousand
flowers
bloom
to
understand
where
the
the
proper
advancements
are.
On
the
other
hand,
if
customers
start
using
things,
you
need
to
be
real,
careful
that
you're
not
pulling
things
away
that
they
might
want.
A
F
That's
true,
and
you
know,
as
an
open
source
software
company
I,
think
Red
Hat
really
chose
that
line
well
with
making
sure
that
we're
innovating
and
we're
trying
to
give
our
customers
exactly
what
they
need
and,
like
you
mentioned
in
the
last
segment,
about
having
the
ability
to
you,
know,
look
at
all
these
projects
coming
out
here
and
picking
and
choosing
which
ones
will
give
our
customers
the
the
bang
for
their
buck,
that
they
would
really
really
love.
But
we
have
to
tow
that
line,
because
you
know
everything
isn't
for
everybody.
F
We
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
making
the
smart
bets
on
anything
that
we
bring
into
our
software.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
it
has
a
nice
life
cycle,
because
we
want
to
make
sure
that's
one
of
our
tenants.
You
know
you
know
Rel
in
its
long
life
cycle.
We
want
our
customers
to
constantly
have
Innovation,
but
they
need
a
stable
platform
on
which
to
be
able
to
move
and
operate.
So
it
is
a
really
very
fine
line,
but
I
think
this
company
does
a
really
good
job
in
in
handling
that.
A
Yeah,
it's
it
kind
of
Chaos
in
many
ways
out
there
and
I
I
saw
a
presentation
from
Red
Hat
years
ago
before
I
joined
red
hat
that
just
if
you
look
at
the
you
know
the
churn
in
code
that
happens
in
Linux
and
Java
and
kubernetes,
and
so
many
of
our
spaces,
it
is
the
drum
beat
of
our
industry.
Is
that
that
constant
rate
of
change?
Yes,.
C
A
Red
hat
really
thrives
in
that
because
you
know
at
the
core
of
it.
You
know
our
executive
team
always
says
you
know
we're
not
here
to
create
IP.
We
are
here
to
everything
we
do
goes
Upstream,
it's
that
commitment
to
open
source.
So
it's
not
that
hey.
We
created
some
cool
technology
and
you
need
to
use
it.
All
of
our
products
are
based
on
community
open
source
projects.
So
there's
users
involved
there's
that
feedback
loop
with
everyone
there.
A
So
it's
not
us
just
saying
hey,
you
know
we
created
this
cool
awesome
widget,
everybody
should
buy
it.
It's
we
are
contributing
as
part
of
an
overall
Community
where
you
know
there
are
many
users
involved
and
real
business
challenges
that
we
are
trying
to
help
meet,
and
we
know
that
we
are
a
piece
of
the
overall
puzzle,
even
when
you
know
there's
plug-ons
and
add-ins,
and
a
huge
isv
ecosystem
out
there,
so
that
you
know
we're
not
trying
to
sell
you
just
a
stack.
It's.
We
have
a
piece
of
your
tool
chain.
F
Exactly
and
we
do
a
really
good
job
with
our
partners
with
integration,
making
sure
that
a
lot
of
the
disparate
moving
Parts
can
talk
together
and
can
communicate
together.
So
we
play
well
and
I
think
that's
really
a
a
hat
tip
for
Red
Hat
as
a
whole.
We
don't
come
in
here,
heavy-handed
and
telling
you
that
this
is
how
it's
done.
We're
listening
to
our
community.
Our
fingers
are
on
the
pulse
of
the
community.
F
A
Angela
you,
you
bring
up
the
key
point
because,
on
the
one
hand,
customers
do
want
our
opinion,
we've
got
so
many
customers,
we've
learned
from
what
we're
doing
so
in
many
ways
you
know
the
opinionated
approach
that
we
can
give
them
and
give
them
guidance,
but
also
with
the
flexibility,
so
that
if
the
customer
has
specific
requirements
or
wants
to
go
slightly
different
than
what
you
know,
kind
of
the
best
practices.
Well,
that
might
make
sense
for
them
and
that.
A
You
know
because
our
Technologies
very
much
our
horizontal
plays,
so
we
have
so
many
customers
and
so
many
different
verticals
with
so
many
requirements.
So
you
know
one
of
your
federal
governments
that
need
to
do
something
completely
disconnected
with
all
of
their
certifications.
You
know,
might
be
very
different
from
you
know.
Some
just
Enterprise,
that's
out
a
little
bit
more
doing
things.
You
know
in
the
public
cloud
and
leveraging
all
those
services,
so
it
is,
it
is
challenging
and
I
think
it
it
actually.
A
C
I
think
it's
important
to
understand
that
there
are
practices
in
place
to
get
from
zero
to
a
cruising
altitude
kind
of
in
a
metaphorical
way
very
quickly.
There
are
practices
that
you
can
employ
to
find
out
what
the
people
that
are
going
to
use
your
app.
What
do
they
want
the
people
that
are
going
to
use
whatever
product
you're
trying
to
build?
What
do
they
really
need?
What
is
it
that's
going
to
make
them?
You
know:
choose
your
product
amongst
a
host
of
other
ones
that
are
being
offered
to
them.
E
F
F
That's
someone's
doing
it,
but
everyone
can't
do
it
because
that's
where
mistakes
happen,
that's
making
those
small
bets
is
what
we're
looking
for
those
little
Hopscotch
moving
to
the
next
Square,
a
little
bit
of
iteration
slight
Innovations
moving
forward,
pushing
that
needle
that's
how
it
changes.
So
I
really
do
love
that
metaphor,
the
Hopscotch
mentality,
because
you
get
pretty
far
that
way,
because
sometimes
that
Leap
Forward
it'll
knock
you
further
back
so
great
great
metaphor,
thank
you
Kim
for
bringing
that
to
us.
A
A
So
you
know
if
I
look
in
a
software
world,
you
know
I
can
have
that
sandbox
environment
where
I
learn
a
technology
and
I
I
start
to
adopt
it
because
here's
the
thing
we
know
it
would
be
really
nice
to
say
with
the
cloud
hey,
you
know,
let
me
just
throw
a
few
dollars
and
wave
a
magic
wand
and
in
a
couple
of
weeks
I
will
have
everything,
be
digitally
modernized
and
it
is
totally
wonderful.
We
know
that
this
is
a
journey
that
we
want.
A
We
have
customers,
we've
been
working
with
for
years
in
their
overall
Journey
and
we
talk
about
where
they
go.
So
once
again,
these
are
journeys
we're
going
on
so
number
one.
That
means
it's
a
Continuum
and
number
two
means
hey.
You
know,
let's
be
realistic,
understand
what
can
be
done.
You
know
how
we
need
to
you.
You
know
most
companies.
We
need
to
be
the
analogy
there
was
being
at
a
cruising
altitude.
Well,
sometimes
you
need
to
be
able
to
change
an
engine.
A
You
know,
while
the
plane
is
still
you
know,
flying
at
full
speed.
So
that
is
not
something
that
would
be
simple,
it'd
be
nice.
If
everyone
we
could
start
without
any
Legacy
baggage
or
any
Technologies
and
start
with
the
future.
But
you
know
that's
absolutely.
You
know
something
we
need
to
think
about
as
to
how
we
can
make
changes-
and
you
know
modernize
while
doing
it
in
in
a
proper
way.
F
Yeah,
sometimes
you
do
need
to
change
the
engine
I
like
that.
One
at
that
cruising
altitude,
I
mean
open
source,
and
you
know,
kubernetes
and
and
the
topics
that
we've
brought
to
the
show
today
are
really
the
backbone
of
how
a
lot
of
organizations
are
doing
business,
and
it
just
so
happens
that
we
work
for
a
company
that
you
know
does
a
lot
in
this
space
with
openshift,
but
across
the
board.
It's
just
the
way
that
doing
business
makes
sense.
You
know
everything
can't
be
in
the
cloud.
We
understand
that
everything
can't
be.
F
They
don't
have
to
be
Earth
shattering
changes,
but
if
you're
moving
your
if
you're
moving
your
company
and
your
organization
forward
and
you
get
the
benefits
of
an
opinionated,
you
know
product
like
openshift,
but
it
allows
you
to
you
know
it
comes
with
the
batteries.
But
if
you
wanted
to
switch
out
parts,
that's
great
too
so
I
think
customers
really
do
like
the
flexibility,
on-prem
Cloud
private
Cloud
public
Cloud.
F
A
F
Oh
gosh
so
well
how
this
show
is
done
how
the
sausage
is
made.
Is
we
have
a
cracked
team
of
producers,
Kim
Wong
Johan
Philippine,
Caroline
Craighead?
They
make
the
show
sing
me
and
my
co-host
Brent
Seminole
we're
just
there
just
trying
to
make
them
look
as
good
as
possible
because
they
do
a
lot.
They
do
the
research
they
interview,
the
guests.
They
come
up
with
these
really
important
topics.
Some
of
them
come
in
through
emails,
some
of
them
coming
through
DMs
on
social
media
and
and
they
have
their
own
ideas.
F
So
this
really
is
a
show
for
our
listeners.
We,
we
really
listen
to
our
listeners,
so
we
always
have
that
call
to
action.
We
want
to
know
what
you're
doing
or
what
you
think,
because
you
know
we're
doing
this
for
them
right
and
our
and
our
producers
are
putting
in
this
great
work
and
doing
this
great
content,
because
this
is
what
folks
want
to
hear-
and
this
is
what
folks
are
talking
about.
F
One
of
the
next
episodes
that
I
love-
love,
love,
love,
love.
We
were
going
to
call
it
the
F
Ups
episode,
but
I.
Think
legal
was
not
feeling
that
so
we
called
it
making
mistakes
well
we're
having
an
F
Ups
episode,
part
two.
So
if
you
enjoyed
the
one
last
week,
which
was
filled
with
to
me,
the
some
of
the
funniest
antidote
anecdotes
of
people
screwing
up
in
their
environments
and
it
being
okay
to
make
those
mistakes
and
feel
safe
and
not
have
that
Terror
of
losing
your
job,
there
are
some
that's.
A
Is
awesome,
yeah,
Angela,
I
I
tell
you
when
I
would
talk
to
practitioners
and
got
the
chance
to
interview
them?
One
of
the
most
valuable
things
is
like
hey
right.
If
you
can
look
back
where
were
there
mistakes
or
something
you've
done
wrong
or
things
that?
Can
you
tell
your
peers
about
that?
So
having
that
that
F
UPS,
as
you
said,
is
really
good
because,
hey
you
know,
the
one
of
the
things
about
the
internet
and
open
source
communities
is.
A
B
F
You
can
speak
for
that,
yeah
I
would
love
to
so.
There
was
a
phrase
used
that
I'd
never
heard
the
phrase
before
it
was
architecture
and
it's
kind
of
like
a
dig
at
a
company
or
product
or
something
where
it's
really
not
all.
It's
cracked
up
to
be
the
marketing
literature,
the
speak.
It's
it
sounds
like
it's
the
best
product
since
sliced
bread,
but
it
really
isn't
and
doing
doing
good
products.
F
Well,
is
really
hard,
and
you
know
there's
this
Dilbert
cartoon
that
I
saw
where
there
was
a
director
of
architecture
and
he
had
a
slide
behind
him.
That
said,
being
good,
it's
overrated,
and
so
it
was
just
like
it's
so
funny
how
sometimes
when
it
can
be
a
catchy
phrase
or
something
that
catches
your
eye,
and
it
looks
like
the
new
hotness
and
then,
when
you
peel
back
the
onion
you're
like
oh,
this
is
trash,
you
know,
so
my
architecture
is
just
one
of
those
really.
F
A
My
gosh
Angela,
so
you
know
that
that
comic
strip
goes
back
to
2009,
which
was
probably
before
we
even
had
the
term
Cloud
washing,
which
was
in
the
early
years
of
cloud.
Every
oh
cloud
cloud
you'd
see
a
company
come
out
and
they'd
put
out
their
things
and
it
was
like
wait.
What
do
you
actually
do
so?
You're,
right,
like
understanding
you
know,
is
this
vaporware?
A
Is
this
something
that
that
they
just
have
a
architecture
or
is
this
something
that
we
can
actually
deploy?
So
you
know
one
of
the
things
I
love
about
red
hat?
Is
you
know
we
are?
You
know
real
techies
in
the
weeds.
You
know
I've
got
one
of
the
few
shows
that
isn't
you
know
showing
you
command
line
and
demos
and
everything
you
have
there.
So
you
know
Red
Hat,
you
know.
Even
you
know
those
of
us
that
are
in
in
with
the
marketing
org.
A
All
right
so,
for
this
episode,
I
think
we're
getting
to
the
end
so,
of
course
make
sure
to
smash
that
like
subscribe
and
share
options
here
for
compiler.
Of
course,
you
can
get
that
where
you
find
all
of
your
favorite
podcasts
Angela
I'll,
give
you
the
the
last
final
words
as
to
you
know:
people
if
they
want
to
learn
more
connect
and
share
with
the
compiler
crew.
F
Awesome
well,
the
links
are
in
the
chat.
You
can
go
to
compilerpodcast.com
to
get
an
idea
of
our
podcast.
They
come
out
every
two
weeks.
I
think
we're
going
to
take
a
break,
maybe
a
one
month
break
for
the
summer.
But
again
we
come
out
every
two
weeks
with
new
amazing
episodes.
Again
with
me
and
my
co-host
Brent
simoneau
go.
You
can
hit
us
up
on
any
social
media
using
the
hashtag
compilerpodcast.
We
definitely
look
at
those.
A
All
right,
well
Angela,
thank
you
so
much
yeah
and
and
to
that
point
you
know
this
show
runs
every
two
weeks
on
on
Thursdays.
Typically,
we
might
have
you
know
what
one
or
two
you
know
pauses
in
the
summer.
Just
because
you
know
there
there
are
some
of
the
the
general
vacations
and
the
like,
and
lining
people
up
sometimes
can
be
a
little
bit
but
Angela
pleasure
talking
to
you
I
hope
you
get
to
cross
paths
with
you
at
one
of
the
events
coming
up
in
the
near
future.