►
Description
Kubernetes, cloud technology, and the latest developer tools make teams more effective but exacerbate the talent shortage. Gain insight on solutions during our KBE Insider car interview with Charlotte Dunlap, Research Director at Global Data Analyst Group at KubeCon Europe in Amsterdam. Discover how Red Hat’s Kube by Example (KBE) as well as AI and automation tools close the skills gap through self-paced, on-demand development resources.
Start learning Kubernetes and Cloud Native skills for free: https://kubebyexample.com/
A
B
I'm
Charlotte,
Dunlap
I
am
a
research
director
at
global
data
and
I've
been
there
for
some
time
now,
actually
covering
application
platforms
for
for
about
a
decade
and
so
I'm,
really
following
a
lot
of
developer
technology
over
these
years,
which
you
know
started
out
being
about
middleware
and
then
with
the
claw
Advent
of
the
cloud
that
moved
into
Paz
and
yeah
and
then
all
kinds
of
fun
cool,
emerging
technologies
that
have
come
off
of
that
of
course
right
and
so,
of
course,
back
well.
So
kubernetes,
eventually,
eventually
a.
B
That's
right,
particularly
that
would
bring
in
the
operational
side
of
things.
So
you
know
developers
figured
out
pretty
early
how
to
pull
a
credit
card
out
and
Order
Up
AWS
Services
initially,
because
they
were
under
the
gun
to
create
applications
much
faster
than
they
used
to
right.
They
used
to
have
say
nine
months
to
procure
hardware
and.
B
Know
in
the
old
days,
yeah
with
monolithic,
apps
and
now
suddenly
they
had
to
to
do
this.
You
know
with
digital
transformations
in
a
matter
of
weeks
or
even
days,
so
so
that's
switched
all
that
up
and
that
went
along
fine
for
a
while
until
operations
teams
wanted
to
get
their
arms
around
what
they
were
doing,
what.
B
What
they
were
running
yeah
and
so
so
you're
right
so
so
enter
kubernetes
and
right
around
well,
oh
and
then,
of
course,
I.
Don't
need
to
mention
the
last
few
years
have
been
really
tough
between
the
pandemic
and
geopolitical
issues
and
a
shaky
economy
and
and
that's
kind
of
exacerbated.
What
Enterprises
are
dealing
with
and.
B
Architectures
and-
and
that's
that's
tricky,
and
so
you
know,
especially
in
distributed
apps
right.
So
so
that's
kind
of
laying
a
little
bit
of
the
groundwork
for
you.
Linkedin
on
you
know
the
the
pros
and
cons
of
kubern
kubernetes,
which
brings
us
to
where
we
are
now,
which
is.
Unfortunately,
we've
got
this
big
huge
technology
skills,
Gap
globally,
and
so
we're
we're
at
this
point
where
vendors
are
are
looking
to
how
they
can
help
their
customers,
because
I
think
vendors
are
seen
that
that
enterprises
recognize
that
it's
it's
better
for
them.
A
B
A
Day
like
to
be
honest
right,
that's
actually
one
of
my
pet
peeves
about
the
industry
is
that
you
know
a
lot
of
times
with
recruiting
for
software
Engineers.
You
know
people
are
looking
for.
You
know
a
python
person
with
you
know,
seven
years
of
experience,
and
you
know
two
years
with
this
particular
module
and
stuff,
and
the
problem
with
that
is
that
I
think
it
makes
the
Gap
worse
because,
like
you
know,
if
somebody
has,
you
know
an
optional,
you
know
software
development
design
background.
A
You
know
it
doesn't
really
kind
of
matter
what
language
it
was
that
they,
you
know
kind
of,
grew
up
in
if
you
can
give
them
a
bit
of
time
to
learn
whatever
this
new
thing
is
you
know
you
can
get.
You
know
somebody
who
has
you
know
someone
who
has
10
years
of
programming
programming
experience.
It
doesn't
actually
really
matter
that
much
as
far
as
the
language
is
concerned,
as
long
as
you
can
give
them
some
time.
A
To
kind
of
you
know,
you
need
to
learn
that
new
toolbox,
actually
with
my
students
when
I
when
I
talk
about
like
Python
and
what
python
modules
are
and
stuff.
You
know
I'm,
like
you
know,
imagine
that
you're
like
a
carpenter
right
or
like
another
kind
of
construction
worker
whatever,
and
you
have
a
whole
set
of
tools
in
your
garage,
but
you
don't
go
to
every
job
with
all
the
tools
right.
A
You
you
take
a
couple
of
toolboxes,
because
you
know
this
job
is
going
to
need
it
and
that's
what
we
do
with
python
modules
right
is
that
you
need.
You
know
you
need
to
have
this
set
of
tools,
so
you
don't
build
everything
from
scratch,
but
they're.
You
know
they're
they're
kind
of
similar,
like
if
I
borrow
your
Hammer,
it's
still
a
hammer
right.
A
You
know
it
takes
me
a
little
while
maybe
to
know
that
the
details
of
the
weight
or
whatever
of
your
Hammer,
but
you
know
they're
they're,
all
kind
of
at
the
end
of
the
day.
It's
like
I
know
how
to
program.
I
can
figure
out
this
particular
language
in
this
particular
set
of
libraries
I.
Just
might
need
a
little
bit
of
time
to
come
up
to
speed,
and
so
what
I'm?
A
In
various
ways,
right,
right
and
Chad
GPT
in
some
ways
is,
is
really
just
kind
of
you
know.
Broader
stack,
Overflow
right
I
mean,
like
you
know,
it's
funny,
I
used
to
and
I
talk
about
this
a
bunch
on
the
show,
but
it's
like
you
know
when
I
was
Consulting,
I'd
have
grand
plans.
What
I
was
going
to
build
on
the
plane
right
and
then
I
realized
when
I'm
on
the
plane,
I
can't
actually
code
without
the
internet.
Like
you
know,
I
I
need
to
be
able
to
like
so
I'm
like
oh
wait.
A
B
No-
and
this
is
what
I
understand
too
I
I
have
been
talking
with
a
lot
of
developers
or
want
to
be
developers,
meaning,
especially
in
particular
guys
that
are
CIS
admins
that
want
to
re-embed
themselves
and
frankly,
I'm
I'm,
underplaying
them.
They're
they're
really
moving
into
a
coding
a
lot
but
you're
right.
They
tell
me
they.
They
Google
a
lot.
A
B
A
Well
in
this
one
of
the
big
challenges,
a
lot
of
times
with
like
new
software
projects
or
whatever
is
like
the
the
setup
time
where
well
before
you're
like
actually
adding
any
value,
is
high
effort
and
just
even
for
like
professional
developer,
it's
just
infrequent
enough
that
you
have
to
like
relearn
it
every
time
you
know.
So
it's
like
you
know.
A
It
might
have
gotten
better
in
some
way
or
maybe
they
they
changed
it
a
little
bit
in
another
way.
So
I'd
have
to
relearn
it,
of
course,
and
so
I
think
tools
like
where
you're
kind
of
you
know
and
we've
been
chasing
this
grail
for
a
long
time.
You
know
I've
personally,
written
three
production
level
code,
generator
applications
right.
A
You
know
one
way
back
in
the
day
based
on
uml,
you
know
where
you
drew
out
the
architecture
you
wanted
and
it
would
generate
rate
you
a
baseline
application
and
then
you
could
actually
turn
it
into
what
you
needed
so
I
think
it's
a
huge
benefit.
The
thing
that
as
teachers
and
you
know,
other
kinds
of
roles
like
that,
what
we
need
to
figure
out
is
like
okay.
Now,
how
do
we
incorporate
it?
A
So
we
do
these
classes,
that
are,
we
call
them
practicum
or
practica
classes,
where
we're
actually
doing
having
student
teams
work
on
projects
for
third
parties
and
they
walk
into
the
project
and
they
get
assigned
to
the
project
and
it's
a
node.js
project
and
the
student
team
will
say:
we
don't
have
anybody
on
the
team.
That
knows
no
Jess
I'm,
like
Okay
Google
it.
You
know
like
this.
What
you
have
to
learn
to
be
an
industry
professional
is
how
to
learn
about
these
things
quickly
and
yeah
and
yeah
and
identify
okay.
A
You
know
the
things
like
I
know
these
things
about
python.
So
what
I
need
to
do
is
kind
of
know,
those
same
things
in
node.js
or
JavaScript
or
whatever,
and
then
what
I
remember
what's
funny.
Is
that
because
I've
done
so
many
different
languages,
the
things
I
remember
about
a
language
are
the
things
that
are
weird
and
so
that
way,
because
those
are
the
things
that
are
very
difficult
to
look
up
right.
A
Me
looking
up
how
to
do
a
for
Loop
in
Python.
Is
you
know
half
a
second,
but
knowing
you
know,
how
do
you
do?
You
know
threading
models
on
in
in
Python
that
involve
we
get
a
long
time
connections,
that's
using
Twisted,
which
is
an
unusual
framework,
but
has
a
very
important
use
case,
but
that
I
can
tell
you
off
the
top.
My
head
yeah.
A
A
B
Yeah
yeah,
so
what
I'm
you
know
back
to
these,
these
vendor
training
programs
again
I.
It
just
feels
like
I'm
hearing
about
a
new
one
now
every
other
day,
because
it's
just
like
I
said
this:
how
relevant
they
are
that
these
cloud
and
platform
providers
are
realizing
how
much
their
customers
are
needed
and-
and
you
know,
Red
Hat-
has
such
a
cool
example
with
Ford
Motor,
Company
you're.
B
Basically,
what
red
Hat's
done
for
them
is
just
gone
in.
You
know
on
site
for
them
offering
a
free,
self-service
training.
So
again
they
can
do
that
upskilling
and
re-skilling,
and
we
we
see
training
in
those
two
areas.
Upskilling
is
pretty
obvious.
It's
expanding
your
knowledge
of
new
technology
re-skilling
is
about
looking
at
employees
that
have
the
the
aptitude
for
moving
into
to
new
areas.
So
right.
A
B
B
A
Right,
which
is
so
one
of
the
things
I
always
like
to
mention
about
that
is
like
it's
the
you
know.
Why
do
you
want
to
do
that?
Well,
because
you
maybe
aren't
prepared
or
aren't
interested
in
moving
a
particular
application
to
being
quote
unquote
like
Cloud
native,
but
you
can
get
that
kind
of
single
pane
of
glass
where
everything
is
being
managed
by
the
same
environment
by
you
know,
kind
of
just
bringing
that
VM
over
now.
B
Know,
Cloud
native
or
containerized
application,
yeah,
okay,
hey!
You
just
made
me
think
of
something
else
when
you
when
you
said
something
to
me
too,
I
feel
we've
gotten
to
this
place
in
time.
Because
of
some
of
these
cool
emerging
Technologies
I
was
mentioning
that
I've
been
following
for
some
years.
Low
code
platforms
is.
A
B
Obvious
one
intelligent
automation,
RPA,
robotic
process,
automation,
I,
feel
like
these
kind
of
Technologies
helped
usher
in
where
we're
at
today.
As
far
as
these
training
programs,
because
to
me,
they
broadened
the
audience
that
is
able
to
have
access
to
this
High
productivity
Technologies.
They
usually
were
once
just
reserved
for
those
Elite
data
scientists,
those
those
guys
or.
A
Or
like
4gl
kind
of
software
right
so-
and
you
know-
that's
they
have
a
very
you
know
like
like
they're,
not
very
common
anymore,
but
like
power
base
was
that
one
of
them
power
something
or
another,
and
so
they
had
these
very
specialized.
You
know
language
models
and
all
this
stuff,
but
they
made
you
a
much
more
performant
developer
right
at
the
expense
of
universality,
right.
A
B
B
B
A
Right
right,
sorry
interrupted
you,
oh
no,
no
I
was
just
you
know.
It's
like
one
of
the
things
that
I'm
like
where
we
kind
of
you
know
a
lot
of
software
right.
It's
a
lot
about
pendulum,
swings
and
kind
of
getting
it
in
the
middle,
and
you
know,
and
Paz
is
something
I
I
really
quite
Miss,
but
also
understand,
didn't
quite
hit
the
right
like
sweet.
A
A
The
problem
for
most
of
the
paths
is,
was
that
those
those
platforms
were
very
difficult
to
maintain,
build
and
maintain,
and
so
what
I'm
hoping
was
we'll
see
a
Next
Generation
of
those
with
some
of
these
things
or
you
know,
or
they'll
kind
of
be
delivered
in
a
different
way.
So,
like
you
know
some
of
the
things
you're
talking
about,
but
also
things
like
The
Operators.
Those
are
huge
for
that
because
you
can
say
oh
vendor
what
is
the
best
way
to
deploy
and
operate?
A
B
A
Oh
yeah
yeah
I
keep
driving
around
in
like
I'm,
not
in
some
ways,
I'm
not
really
seeing
a
lot
of
the
stuff
right
because
I'm
paying
attention
to
the
conversation
and
the
bikes
and
the
and
the
cars
and
stuff.
Well,
you
don't
have
to
you're,
not
driving
right.
So
you
know
it's!
It's
not
nice!
When
you
point
out
stuff
because
we
do
have
the
roof
camera,
so
our
audience
should
be
able
to
see
it
too.
So
yeah,
it's
kind
of
a
lot
of
fun.
Yeah.
B
Uh-Huh
Girl
With
a
Pearl
Earring
but
anyway,
so
so
that
is
the
difficulty
we've
got.
You
know.
You've
got
slick
developers
even
low
code,
no
code
developers
that
are
creating
apps,
but
then
they
throw
it
over
to
operations.
It's
like
okay.
What
do
I
do?
How
do
I
move
this
into
production
and
they
can
do
it,
but
there's
a
lot
of
refactoring
there's
a
lot
of
configuration.
A
B
A
One
of
the
things
we
were
talking
about
earlier
or
like
with
another
interview,
we're
talking
about
how,
when
you,
when
you
know
it's,
it's
so
much
better.
If
you
can
actually
have
you
know
the
the
not
necessarily
The
Operators
like
the
operations
team
but
kind
of
someone
who's
in
that
neighborhood,
actually
kind
of
reach
into
the
development
teams
and
work
with
the
development
teams
with
their
first.
A
You
know
applications
in
those
kinds
of
environments
or
you
know,
or
something
like
that,
like
you,
if
you
can
kind
of
show
them
how
to
operate
those
development,
you
know
activities
and
then-
and-
and
his
point
was
this-
is
the
key-
is
then
automate
it
as
much
as
humanly
possible
the
the
benefits.
Then
you
know
you.
You
have
way
less
of
that
problem
where,
when
they're
bringing
it
in
okay,
now
we
actually
want
to
deploy
it
to
production.
Now
you
don't
have
as
many
problems
that
you
know.
A
The
operations
team,
for
example,
has
to
deal
with
for
sure
and
it
makes
sense
yeah,
so
they
having
like
in
his
point,
was
really
that
it's
not
so
much
about
devops
as
much
as
like
making
sure
that
whether
you
have
silos
or
don't
have
silos.
But
his
argument
was
silos
are
okay,
but
if
you
it's
more
that
make
sure
you're
Reaching
Across
the
lines.
It's
not
you
know
it's
not
a.
A
B
B
A
A
I
have
with
this
whole
concept
of
you
know
full
stack
developers
is,
you
know,
I
remember
the
days
when
people
were
full
stack
developers,
because
we
had
to
be
because
there
was
no
striation
between
skill
sets
and
so
I
just
had
to
do
the
you
know
massively
ugly
buttons
on
my
websites,
because
there
wasn't
anybody
else.
So.
A
Right
so
like
yeah,
exactly
so
so,
what's
funny
is
like
no,
we
have
different
skills.
What
we
need
to
I
think
we
need
to
do
a
better
job
is
figuring
out
how
we
work
better
together
without
kind
of
the
concept
of
it's
not
really
a
handoff,
which
is
coming
kind
of
comes
from
a
waterfall
model
where
you
know
if
we,
this
is
why
I
often
complain
that
you
know
what
we
do
in
software.
A
Did
you
talk
to
the
ux
person
about
changing
the
design,
so
they
can
work
with
the
framework
we've
already
Chosen
and
he
was
like
no.
Is
that
an
option
I'm
like
yes,
that's
the
point
right
is
that
you
know
we
don't
know.
Without
talking
to
the
ux
person,
we
have
to
play
nicely
together
right,
whether
whether
like
is
there,
some
really
specific
reason
why
they
chose
those
particular
icons.
If
there
was
then
we'll
go
change
the
framework,
but
if
there
wasn't
Maybe
they
can
just
change
the
UI.
You
know
and
I
think
that's
the
problem.
A
B
B
One
you're
referring
to
okay,
it
was
it
would
be
amplify
and
what
it
I'm
pretty
sure,
I
remembered
it.
But
but
the
point
is
it:
for
the
first
time
it
was
saying
to
front-end
developers,
hey
guess
what
we
are
now
giving
you
access
to
back-end
development
and
I
I.
Looked
at
that
like
what
that's
unheard
of
yeah,
but
pretty
amazing
yeah,
because
again
that
that's
the
really
tricky.
A
Well,
there's
there's
another
product
that
that
we
we've
been
experimenting
with
the
school
which
is
I,
think
it's
for
figma,
but
it's
basically
a
plug-in
to
figma,
which
will
based
on
a
UI,
generate
an
application
and
again
kind
of
it's
more
like,
and
this
is
like
I
said:
I
wrote
a
bunch
of
code
generators
and
one
of
the
things
that
we
learned
was
that
it's
it's
really
good
to
generate
like
the
bass
right.
It
doesn't
have
to
be
right.
A
It
can
be
the
80
20
rule
where
it's
just
like
the
right
architecture,
exactly
yeah,
which
then
you
can
modify
to
be
the
right
thing
right.
You
know
so
I
think
it's
super
interesting
and
I
I'm
curious.
This
is
why
you
know
it's
kind
of
interesting
to
be
kind
of
on
the
University
side,
because
you
know
we
have
researchers
who
are
way
far
ahead
of
where
we
are
and
we
have
all
these.
A
B
B
Yes,
but
it's
great
it's
multi-vendors
here,
so
you
get
access
to
everybody.
It's
not
just
a
one
vendor
conference,
just
the
different
discussions
with
everybody,
just
in
the
lunchroom
and
and
some
of
the
user
panels
and
things
I've
been
seeing
and
and
Keynotes
I,
don't
always
understand
all
the
different
project
updates.
But
but
it's
interesting.
Oh
definitely,
a
new
new
open
source
Technologies
and
you
always
just
walk
away
with
a
handful
of
these
things.
You
know
I
mean
backstage
it's
cool,
getting
to
know
that
better
that
that
technology
and.
A
A
Excuse
me
that
people
are
starting
to
notice
that
they
have
a
need
for,
and
so
that's
been
really
interesting
and
and
I
I've
been
particularly
noticing
it
because
I
hadn't
heard
of
it
until
I
went
to
Detroit
for
kubecon,
North,
America
and
I
came
back
and
I
want
to
implement
it
at
the
school
for
the
projects
we
do
because
we
have.
You
know
we
have
very
high
turnover
right
every
every
semester.
We
turn
over
300
employees.
A
You
know
because
of
all
of
our
student
teams
go
away,
and
then
we
get
another
crop
right,
but
the
projects
live
longer
than
that,
and
so
it
it.
We
have
a
very
hard
time
of
transitioning
from
one
group
to
the
next,
because
not
only
do
you
have
typical
transition
problems,
but
the
students
might
just
be
gone
right.
They
might
have
graduated
or
you
know,
or
they're,
just
not
available,
because
they're
doing
37
other
classes,
you
know
or
whatever
yeah.
A
A
B
A
A
A
You
know
in
theory,
can
just
generate
it,
but
what
this
I
think
it
was
an
English
teacher
found
was
that
you
know
it's
it
like,
especially
in
the
middle
it's
kind
of
like,
and
so
what
she
started
doing
or
what
she's
experimenting
with
is
that
she's
now
giving
all
of
the
good
parts
from
the
Chachi
peach
tea
chat,
GPT
generated
answer
to
a
written.
You
know
a
writing
prompt
and
removing
the
bad
parts
and
then
asking
the
students.
B
A
B
Know
what
I
like
that,
because
it's
also
realistic
and
I'm
not
trying
to
say
plagiarism,
is
going
to
be
okay
one
day,
but
I
mean
I,
my
background's
journalism
and
analyst
and
it
being
a
really
good
researcher,
is
important
and
so
yeah
in
that
capacity.
The
other
thing
I
was
going
to
say
about
it.
Is
it's
really
interesting,
I'm
curated
overall
theme
by
a
lot
of
the
vendors
and
Executives
speaking.
A
B
A
B
A
A
A
And
that's
why
why
we
kind
of
put
out
that
policy
is
the
faculty
right?
Is
that
we
said
you
know,
you
know
we're
kind
of
an
unusual
unit,
but
because
we
we're
like
we
need
to
embrace
this
now
and
we
need
to
embrace
it
in
on
our
terms
and
then
we
can
kind
of
embrace
it
and
say
you
know
these
are
the
parts
we
understand,
and
these
are
the
parts
we
don't
know
yet,
but
here's
here's
our
current
thinking
and
then
we
can
evolve
all
that
over
time.
A
B
A
Well,
in
our
particular
unit,
like
we,
we
focus
on
so
we
do
a
data
science
major,
but
the
the
major
kind
of
has
two
tracks
within
it.
One
is
you
want
to
become
a
PhD
in
data
science
and
you
want
to
advance
the
next
piece
of
machine
learning,
but
there's
another
track
which
and
that's
the
typical
academic
track
right
when
you
go
to
university.
What
you're
really
going
there
in
a
lot
of
ways
for
is,
is
how
to
be
like
an
academic.
A
How
to
you
know
how
to
advance
that
field,
whatever
it
is,
and
then,
but
we
have.
We've
introduced
another
track,
which
is
the
practitioner
track,
and
so
the
Baseline
lot
of
the
Baseline
stuff
is
the
same.
But
then
your
your
you
know
kind
of
like
half,
Stone
type
work,
and
you
know,
and
the
major
you
know
in
your
later
year,
work
is
more
on
the
consumption
or
usage
and
proper
usage
of
things
like
tensorflow
or
whatever,
rather
than
building
the
next
tensorflow.
You
know
like.
B
As
I
recall,
it's
a
good
size
we
are
global.
Data
is
based
in
London.
We
are,
we
do
data
analysis.
We
consist
of
a
number
of
research
and
analyst
firms
that
that
do
a
vast
array
of
of
materials,
data
for
our
clients
for
our
customers,
from
surveys
to
thematic,
big,
massive
I
call
them
monster
reports
yeah
on
topics
to
event,
reports
very
timely,
very,
very
quick
that
just
helps
give
Enterprises
some
direction
on
where
the
Market's
going
and
and
where
there
are
opportunities.