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From YouTube: KBE Insider Amsterdam - Erik Van Weert, Achmea
Description
KBE Insider interviews Erik van Weert, Solution Architect, OpenShift at Achmea while in Amsterdam for KubeCon Europe. Erik shares key advantages and disadvantages of open source software as compared to commercial proprietary software, especially in adaptation. We also discuss the challenges of Erik’s team while supporting development teams at Achmea to adopt the philosophy of Kubernetes, Red Hat OpenShift, and containerized services.
Watch to learn Erik’s approaches to solve those challenges and his next-steps!
A
B
Well,
thank
you.
Thank
you
for
having
me
I'm,
Eric
I
work
at
uhmed.
Maya
is
a
large
insurance
company
in
the
Netherlands
I.
Myself
are
a
solution
architect
working
with
a
team
that
is
providing
Linux
and
kubernetes
on
cloud
services
and
cloud
service
providers,
mainly
on
Azure.
At
this
moment,
okay.
A
B
B
Know,
I,
don't
know
why
anybody
even
invented
titles
there,
but
the
fact
is
I
think
I
see
myself
more
as
a
as
a
senior
engineer
within
the
team.
I
think
a
lot
of
people
grow
in
their
job
and
by
doing
stuff
doing
things.
That's
my
story.
I
do
things
I
like
software
I
like
kubernetes
and
in
that
way,
I
grow
in
the
job
where
I
am,
and
it
has
just
has
the
job
title
solution,
you're.
A
Right
right,
right,
yeah,
so
I,
you
know,
I
think
they.
You
know
we
have
a
lot
of
people
in
the
kind
of
software
industry
who
you
know
are
just
kind
of
there
as
a
job
right
and
other
people
who
it's
also
their
kind
of
only
hobby
and
so
yeah,
yeah
and
so
I
know.
I've
played
like
all
different
kinds
of
roles.
You
know
with
all
kinds
of
different
titles,
and
you
know,
I
I've
also
had
multiple
roles
with
different
titles,
where
I
was
doing
exactly
the
same
thing.
A
So
you
know
it's
it's
kind
of
a
weird
field,
but
you
know
so
what
brought
you
to
you
know?
Have
you
have
you
been
an
open
source
kind
of
land
long
or
have
you
mostly
been
kind
of
working
in
insurance
companies
and
and
kubernetes
was
part
of
your
movement
or
was
there
something
that
Drew
you
into
the
open
source
space
and-
and
you
know
kind
of
in
particular
unrelated
to
your
job
I.
B
Think
it's
a
bit
of
in
between
so
okay
I
think
I'm,
not
working
directly
as
a
contributor
in
the
open
source,
world
and
I
do
some
small
contributions
and
when
we
see
them,
I
think
we're
mainly
a
user
of
Open
Source
software,
either
supported
by,
for
example,
a
redhead
or
directly
in
a
simple
python
packages
or
whatever
that
is
necessary
to
manage
and
maintain
the
infrastructure.
We
provide
our
company
yeah
yeah,
so
mainly
a
user,
mainly
engineering,
mainly
deployments
in
my
job
or
my
journey,
started
in
a
few
commercial
Unix
systems
through
64.
A
Ago
I
did
I,
I
did
Sun,
mostly
not
ax,
but
I
actually
ran
or
worked
on
a
system
that
had
a
AIX
Oracle
instance
back
in,
but
I
didn't
touch
that
part
I
mostly
was
like
sun,
OS
and
yeah.
So
I
I
know
of
what
you
speak.
Sono
has
four
dots.
Yeah
yeah
I
actually
had
a
spark
10
on
my
desk,
which
I
was
pretty
excited
about
yeah
yeah,
but
I
I
did
a
lot
of
stuff
on
that
different
times.
Yeah.
B
A
B
I
I
I
even
started
in
the
living,
or
so
so
999
yeah
and
from
there
on
I,
started
doing
everything
when
I
ended
when
I
entered
the
Enterprise
guys,
there
wasn't
Linux
right
right
or
open
source
or
even
open
source.
Now
that
there
was
bands,
yeah
I,
remember
that,
but
nowadays
I
think
the
the
complete
Journey
from
there
to
where
we
are
now
I'd
be
I've,
been
there
and
most
of
the
time
in
the
AIX
Linux
and
nowadays
kubernetes
Community
internally.
A
And
and
it's
and
so
so
you
had
a
lot
of
experience
with
like
proprietary
systems
and
what
what
do
you
feel
like
is
different
with
the
kind
of
the
open
source
software
systems
I
mean
you
know,
I
I'm
gonna,
guess
maybe
you
prefer
them,
but
you
know
what
what
is
it
about
them?
That
you
feel
like
is
different
or
you
know
it
might
be
better
or
sometimes
worse.
Well,.
B
The
fact
that
I
can
help
look
at
the
software
understand
how
it
works,
helps
me,
use
the
software
right
in
all
the
the
commercial
so
that
we
used
down
the
lane.
The
problem
was
okay,
it's
a
big
package,
it's
complex,
it's
I,
don't
understand
it,
and
I
can
use
probably
10
or
20
of
it
right.
If
I
look
at
the
open
source
software,
there
are
so
many
people
that
are
working
around
it.
I
can
contact
them.
I
can
ask
them
for
help.
I
can
look
at
the
documentation.
I
can
contribute.
B
That's
the
main
difference
from
my
side.
The
usability
there
is
a
downside,
of
course,
there's
always
a
downside.
It's
choosing
because
there
is
so
much
open
source
software
yeah,
which
which
Step
I
would
do
where
do
I
go
from,
where
I
am
how
do
I
migrate
and
Commercial
software
vendors
at
least
helped
you
with
that
right.
You
need
to
invent
that
yourself.
That
means
that
you
need
team
and
team
members
that
have
the
knowledge
and
have
the
opportunity
the
time
and
also
the
will
to
do
that
right
to
really.
A
Like
dig
into
it
yeah
to
really
dig
into
it
yeah,
you
said
a
couple
things
that
I
thought
were
interesting.
The
you
know
I
think
especially
for
non-
especially
non-technical
people
altogether,
but
then
those
people
who
aren't
like
deeply
technical
I,
don't
think
people
realize
that
you
know
the
trade-offs
that
we
make
when
we're
developing.
Basically
anything
all
the
time
that
you
just
make
trade-off,
trade-off,
trade-off
and
I.
A
Think
one
of
the
things
that
you
were
kind
of
commenting
on
is
the
the
fact
that
you
can
really
dig
into
a
piece
of
Open
Source
software.
You
can
align
your
trade-offs
with
their
trade-off
choices,
that's
right,
which
is
huge
and
can
be
a
huge
advantage
that
I
think
people,
don't
you
know
like
I
said
unless
they're
they're
deeply
technical,
they
don't
realize,
can
really
make
a
big
difference.
A
As
you
were
kind
of
saying,
you
know
that
twin
to
twenty
percent,
you
know
usage
versus
I,
don't
know,
maybe
70
I,
don't
think
you
ever
get
to
100,
but
you
know
like,
but
you
can.
You
can
definitely
take
advantage
of
that.
You
know
of
of
that.
Like
I
said
similar
mindset,
you
can
like
make
your
software
think
or
be.
You
know,
have
the
same
ethos
kind
of
as
the
software
you're,
relying
on,
which
really
makes
a
big
difference,
definitely
definitely
yeah.
So
I
thought
that
was
that's
an
interesting.
A
Take
I,
don't
think
I've
ever
really
kind
of
thought
about
that
before
it's
like
one
of
the
advantages
of
Open
Source,
but
that's
that's,
really
cool
and
so
you're,
mostly
now
kind
of
doing
open
source
with
kubernetes
or
with
openshift,
and
so
where,
where
do
you,
you
know
typically
work
in
that
space?
Are
you
providing
like
platforms?
Are
you
actually
changing
things
in
the
bottom
of
openshift?
Are
you
running
applications.
B
A
B
So
we
are
growing
every
day
and
one
of
the
conclusions
in
our
site
is
okay.
We
have
a
diversified
set
of
Engineers
right.
It's
not
only
a
highly
highly
skilled
engineer.
It's
Oak
also
people
that
well
do
have
a
lot
of
interest
in
technology,
but
maybe
not
specifically
on
kubernetes
right
right
so
to
help
them
adapt
the
same
technology.
We
need
to
do
we
we
need
to
provide
different
services,
so
in
the
near
future
we
will
probably
start
helping
them
in
a
different
way.
B
B
Yeah
I
think
the
first
unification
portfolio
is
good
to
help
low
engineering
teams
ensure
that
they
can
that
they
don't
need
to
think
about
the
technology
just
help
them
with
deploying
an
application,
but
also
the
other
way
around.
Teams
that
do
want,
like
the
control
yeah,
provide
them
with
the
functionality
to
do
to
have
that
control
to
do
it
themselves
right.
B
B
Yeah
so,
and
as
mentioned,
we
for
example,
have
a
team
that
provides
Pega
as
a
as
a
local
platform.
They
are
very
good
in
Pega,
but
they
are
probably
not
as
good
in
technology.
That's
not
their
thing,
but
we
also
have
for
example.net
core
teams
that
those
teams
are
heavily
involved
in
development.
Go,
they
know,
cicd
pipelines,
they
know
all
the
stuff
and
they
that
they
want.
A
A
B
Sometimes
and
re-educate,
it's
more
helping
them
adapting
to
that
different
environment
and
helping
them
understand
what
the
differences
are.
I
think
most
of
them
understand,
and
everybody
knows
that
we
need
to
go
to
Cloud.
That's
right,
that's
it
that
discussion
is
already
finished,
but
what
it
means
to
go
to
Cloud
right
what
it
means
to
go:
go
Cloud
native!
It's
a.
A
B
A
lot
of
migration
work
there's
a
lot
of
life
cycle
Management
in
the
sense
that
the
current
application
evolve.
We
also
see
a
lot
of
independence
of
offenders
nowadays
move
from
traditional
deployments
in
Windows
or
Linux
to
kubernetes-based
deployments,
basically,
probably
because
development
in
a
platform
like
humanity
is
much
easier.
So
right.
A
Well,
especially
particularly
the
deployment
side,
I
mean
it's
like
you
know:
I
I,
like
on
my
laptop
right
I,
try
very
hard
not
to
essentially
install
anything.
You
know,
I
just
put
everything
in
a
container
that
I
ever
use
so
that
I
don't
have
to
deal
with
the
conflicts.
I
don't
have
to
deal
with.
You
know
upgrades
where
I
don't
want
them.
You
know
things
like
that,
and
you
know
I
I
think
containers
have
been
like
at
least
for
me.
You
know
I've
been
using
containers
since
what
like
2012
I.
A
A
Yeah,
exactly
yeah,
so
with
kind
of
the
open
source
world
or
whatever
is
there?
Is
there
a
particular
part
of
kind
of
that
kubernetes
and
openshift
Landscape
or
whatever
that
you
really
think
is
going
to
be?
You
know
kind
of
world
changing
aside
from
cloud
native
in
general,
for
your
kind
of
engineering
teams,
like
you
know,
is
serverless
really
going
to
be
a
really
a
godsend
for
them,
or
you
know
kind
of
thinking
about
event-driven
architectures
or
you
know
what
what
is
going
to
enable
you
know
that.
B
It's
going
to
be
really
awesome.
I
think
the
the
combination
of
a
set
of
functionality
will
will
be
game.
Changing
it's,
not
one
specific
change
in
the
coming
period,
at
least
not
that
I
know
of
what
I
now
see
is
that
the
possibility
to
move
a
lot
of
functionality
to
the
infrastructure
provided,
for
example,
by
Dapper,
provided
by
service
measures
provided
by
cada
those
functionalities,
ensure
that
developers
can
focus
themselves
on
building
functionality
right
for
our
organization,
that
that's
a
big
game.
Changer.
B
A
Right,
do
you
you
know,
depending
on
the
organization
you
know
do,
do
you
see
a
lot
of
your
kind
of
development
teams?
You
know
sharing
functionality,
and
do
you
think
that
you
know
this
move
to
you
know
a
little
bit
more
like
a
service,
oriented
architecture
or
using
you
know,
containers
in
in
this
way.
Will
this
increase
the
opportunities,
for
you
know
less
teams
to
rewrite
the
same
code?
B
Hopefully,
yeah,
hopefully
yeah
there
are
a
lot
of,
and
there
aren't
a
lot
of
good
thoughts
about
that.
The
platform,
engineering
and
movement.
Of
course,
the
backstage
you
know,
IDP,
is
all
things
and
all
functionality
that
that
will
help,
but
it
also
means
that
teams
need
to
grow
in
their
own
maturity.
They
need
to
see
what
is
possible,
what
what
what
can
be
shared
between
other
teams,
so
yeah
I,
think
that
will
be
the
next
step
there
and
that
will
help
us
and
other
teams
be
more
productive.
B
B
A
Environment,
yeah,
yeah
and
and
kind
of
really
adopting
you
know:
I
regularly
use
the
word
ethos,
but,
like
the
you
know,
the
philosophy
behind
it
and
the
approach
you
know,
because
you
know
you
you
can
you
can
do
a
lot
of
things
just
putting
it
into
a
cloud
native
environment.
That
really
are
not.
You
know
we're
gonna
like
enable
any
of
those
things.
You
know
you
just
all
you
did
was
a
port.
You
know
and
I
think
that's
seen
it
yeah.
A
Oh
yeah
yeah,
oh
I've,
I've
hacked
that
myself,
but
at
least
I
know
that
I'm
doing
something
horrifying,
but
I
think
that's
the
the
next.
That's
another
big
hurdle
for
a
lot
of
people.
It's
like!
No!
No!
It's
not
just
you
know.
Oh
now,
I'm
running
my
web
server
in
a
container
in
my
database
in
a
container
I
I
need
to
construct
my
architecture
differently.
B
But
I've
seen
that
that
that
step
is
necessary,
I
think
I
can
tell
everybody
that
you
need
don't
need
to
do
that,
but
they
will
do
it.
Yeah
yeah
at
least
once
at
least
once
and
find
out
that
that
is
not
the
good
way
to
do
it.
Right
and
people
need
to
learn
and
learning
most
of
the
time
learning
the
hard
way
yeah
so
yeah.
We
will
help
them
yeah.
We
are
seeing
those
kinds
of
patterns
and
hopefully.
A
We
will
learn
right
right,
the
you
know
to
to
pitch
the
show
right.
So
that's
kind
of
the
idea
like
with
Cube
by
example.
Right
is
we
try
to
give
these
like
learning
paths
or
whatever
that
really
talk
a
lot
about
kind
of
the
philosophical
aspect
and
like
trying
to
change
how
you're
thinking
you're,
not
just
using
a
new
technology
yeah
one
of
the
one
of
the
common
ones
I
see
for
that
is
like
people,
you
know,
I've
talked
to
people
about
kubernetes
and
they're
like.
A
Why
do
I
need
this
big
honking?
You
know
piece
of
software
to
to
run
my
environment
and
I'm
like
well.
Have
you
used
containers
much
and
they're
like
no,
no
I
haven't
I'm
like
use
some
containers
like
get
used
to
them,
and
then
you
will
discover
how
quickly
you
need
something
to
orchestrate
them,
because
you
can't
keep
track
of
where
they
all
are.
What
what's
current?
What's
you
know?
True,
it's
it's
really
interesting.
A
You
know
or,
like
you
know,
I
think
the
the
prior
art
on
this
is
essentially,
if
you
had
an
environment
that
used
like
golden
image,
VMS
yeah,
which
is
also
was
kind
of
a
game
changer,
but
changes
how
you
think
about
what
you're
doing
as
well.
And
you
know
that
had
a
lot
of
trouble
in
and
of
itself.
You
know
and
I
think
containers
are
like,
let's,
let's
multiply
that
by
a
factor
of
50.
yeah
and
which
is
always
kind
of
interesting,
but.
A
Yeah
yeah
I
mean
I,
you
know
I
deal
with
because
I,
you
know
I
teach
at
a
university
and
you
know
I
deal
with
this
and
with
students
every
day
like
you
know,
I
have
to
I
have
to
start
them
with
okay.
Why
don't?
We
just
run
everything
on
physical
Hardware.
You
know-
and
you
know,
when
I
talk
about
the
you
know,
retail
season
or
tax
season,
or
you
know
something
that
shows
on
a
big
spike,
and
so
you
have
to
buy.
B
A
A
B
B
A
We
are
right,
right
and
I
think
it's
like
it's
it's
like
a
lot
of
things
right.
You
have
to
feel
some
of
the
pain
to
be
able
to
understand
the
solution.
You
know,
but
at
the
same
time
you
know
especially
like
in
you
know,
corporate
Enterprise
or
whatever,
like
how.
How
often
can
you
afford
to
let
somebody
deal
with
the
pain
right
and
so.
B
That
that's
a
big,
that's
true!
That's
a
big
concern.
I
think
in
the
Enterprise
is
at
least
the
Enterprises
I
know
are
keen
on
control.
They
want
to
provide.
They
want
to
deploy
applications
in
such
a
way
that
that
folds
and
that
it
there
are
no
Faults.
There
are
no
problems,
but
but
in
effect
of
life,
is
that
there
are
always
issues
that
are
always
problems.
A
Yeah,
yeah
and
I
think
it's
I,
don't
know.
I
like
I,
said,
I
think
it's
good
for
people
to
get
it
to
to
feel
some
of
the
pain.
You
know
we
were
talking
in
another
interview
earlier,
like
one
of
my
one
of
my
things
that
I
really
dislike
about
how
we
hire
in
the
industry
is
like.
Oh
yeah
I
need
a
person
who
has
python,
you
know
for
10
years
and
has
used
module,
A
and
B
and
C,
and
it's
like.
No.
A
What
you
need
is
somebody
who
knows
how
to
code,
and
then
you
need
to
give
them
an
opportunity
to
learn
the
environment
in
which
you're
in
yeah
do
it
yeah,
and
you
know
it's
like
I
know
how
to
write
a
for
loop.
I
can
figure
out
how
to
do
it
in
Python.
Whether
I
know
the
language
or
not,
you
know
you
know,
might
I
might
be
a
little
slow
to
start,
but
I
think
it's
true
for
a
lot
of,
especially
these
kind
of
high
level
Technologies.
A
A
Will
be
not
no
right
and
so
I
think
that's
one
of
the
big
challenges
I
think
with
our
industry.
I
actually
think
it's
a
big
part
of
it.
Is
that
a
lot
of
the
times
the
kind
of
hiring
arm
of
your
organization
doesn't
really
understand
what
they're
hiring,
and
so
they
can't
use.
You
know
their
skill
set
to
most
Effectiveness
because
they
don't
entirely
get
what
they're
trying
to
hire
and
but.
B
B
B
A
A
So
it's
one
of
the
things
that
we
actually
try
to
cover
in
some
of
the
classes
we
teach
is
you
know
it's
like,
generally
speaking,
if
you
do
like
a
computer
science
or
even
a
data
science
kind
of
major,
you
learn
like
how
to
code
right
yeah,
but
you
don't
really
know
how
to
do
software
building,
which
is
not
the
same
thing.
You
know
you
know,
and
you
know
so,
that's
we
we've
been.
A
You
know,
we've
kind
of
introduced
these
classes,
where
we
do
like
projects
for
third
parties
and
like
we
make
sure
that
the
projects
that
they
do
like
one
of
my
requirements
is
that
the
the
student
team
has
to
deploy
something
by
the
end
of
the
semester
and
part
of
the
class.
Is
them
Gathering
requirements
and
expectation
setting
from
the
you
know
the
client
and
making
sure
that
they
deliver.
A
What
I
can
tell
you
is
is
that
if
the
client
feels
like
you
met
their
expectations,
you
get
an
A,
and
so
that
means
you
have
to
understand
that
you
have
to
work
with
them
to
figure
out
what
they
are
expecting
you
to
build
and
then
build
it
and
then
deploy
it,
which
is
all
things
that
don't
really
have
anything
to
do
with
computer
science.
You
know,
which
is
you
know,
interesting
and
and
yeah
part
of
part
of
what
makes
the
teaching
those
classes
difficult.
B
I'm
not
sure
what
the
approach
is
here
in
the
Netherlands.
It
sounds
different
I
had
a
guy
that
did
a
I'm,
not
sure
what
what
the
English
word
is,
and
he
was.
He
had
an
assignment
to
do
something
for
a
specific
organization,
but
is
put
there.
He
has
a.
He
is
a
guy
that
guides
him
through
it,
but
in
the
end,
it's
all
about
the
assignment
and
not
about
having
a
good
discussion
on
what
the
organization
itself
needs.
B
A
And
I
mean
I
would
say
the
way
we're
doing
this
is
is
not
particularly
standard
for
you
know
software,
you
know
or
computer
science
programs
in
the
US
either.
You
know,
because
you
know
at
the
end
of
the
day
right
you
go.
Typically,
you
go
to
a
university
because
you
are
actually
expecting
to
go
more
into
like
the
the
academic
side
of
whatever
that
field
is,
and
you
know
it's
kind
of
a
it's
a
different
subject
matter
to
learn
how
to
go.