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From YouTube: KBE Insider (E15) - Ville Aikas
Description
KBE Insider interviews Ville Aikas, co-founder of Chainguard and co-founder as well as member of the Steering Committee for the Knative open source project since 2020. We’ll check in with Ville and see what he’s been up to since co-founding Knative and learn more about Chainguard, his latest endeavor. Also, we’ll give you a sneak peek of what we’re up to in Detroit next month for KubeCon North America!
KBE Insider is hosted by Langdon White, Clinical Assistant Professor of Computing and Data Sciences at Boston University, and guest co-host Daniel Oh, Sr. Principal Technical Marketing Manager at Red Hat and CNCF Ambassador. KBE Insider lets you reach people deeply involved with the Kubernetes community, hear what they have to say, and engage with Kubernetes experts from across the globe.
A
B
Yeah
thanks
for
Brendan,
so
hello,
my
name
is
Daniel
I'm
working
for
red
hat
at
a
development
Advocate
I'm
also
responsible
for
CSF
Ambassador,
try
to
Evangel
Roger,
a
developer
platform
engineers
and
SRA
across
admin.
How
to
build
the
accounting
application
until
the
cluster
like
a
kubernetes
and
then
hybrid
the
multi-cloud.
Something
like
that.
A
C
A
A
C
A
A
It
is
pretty
awesome
yeah,
it's
always
it's
like
such
a
pat
on
the
back
when
it
gets
accepted
versus
you
know,
most
of
mine,
which
are
just
you
know.
This
should
work
this
way
and
the
developers
say
no,
it
shouldn't
and
I
say.
Oh,
but
yeah
I
totally
hear
you.
So
what
brought
you
to
kind
of
kubernetes
itself.
C
So
Joe
and
Brendan
so
started
on
the
kubernetes
before
it
was
kubernetes.
So
I
was
at
the
time
over
at
Google
and
a
lot
of
sort
of
kind
of
you
have
been
chatting
for
a
long
time
about
sort
of
kind
of
the
cloud
stuff
how
it's
difficult
and
everything
else,
and
and
how,
how
it's
kind
of
wonky
that
you
have
to
kind
of
pick
and
choose
your
you
have
to
make
a
lot
of
choices
like
do.
I
use
this
cloud
or
do
I
use
that
cloud.
C
There's
so
many
things
there
that
at
the
time,
just
weren't
making
making
developers
lives
easier,
quite
the
contrary,
harder
because
it
was
it
was.
It
was
a
bit
of
a
mess
and
I
guess
you
could
argue
it
still
might
be.
But
so
there
was
a
lot
of
hallway
chat
about
sort
of
kind
of
being
able
to
do
better
and
so.
D
A
A
C
A
Okay,
all
right
so
we're
here
to
talk
a
bit
about
like
kind
of
k-native
and
that
kind
of
stuff,
but
before
we
get
into
that,
okay,
so
I
think
people
think
of
k-native
as
being
serverless.
But
what
does
serverless
mean
to
you
because
I,
you
know
I
think
it's
one
of
those
words
that
still
really
kind
of
wobbly
for
a
lot
of
people.
It
means
different
things
depending
on
who
you
ask
so
so.
How
do
you
explain
it
to
people.
C
A
C
And
what
just
explain
a
little
bit
on
that
which
is
sort
of
kind
of
like
the
part
of
the
things
which
is
like
it's,
the
I,
don't
have
to
think
about
the
servers,
but
it
also
means
that
I
don't
have
to
go
ahead
and
manage
my
workloads
for
me
kind
of
like
the
the
original
app
engine
idea,
I
think,
which
was
fairly
fairly
quite
good,
which
was
the
I
always
thought
of
it
as
like.
You
have
one
job
and
we
basically
put
your
code
in
there
and
it
just
like.
C
Okay,
now,
just
run
it
scale,
it
do
all
the
things
for
me.
You
have
one
job,
don't
screw
it
up.
That's
it
right,
so
I
think
that's
the
OG
of
sort
of
kind
of
the
serverless
at
least,
and
no
disrespect
to
things
that
I
might
have
missed,
but
that
that
is
sort
of
kind
of
the
model
that
that
originally
kind
of
I,
I,
really
thought
resonated
with
with
myself
and
other
folks,
and
you
didn't
have
to
think
about
servers.
The
other
one
was
like
okay
provision.
Vms
do
them!
C
C
Because
it
turns
out
that
world
just
happened
so
that
there's
things
that
are
happening,
you
need
to
respond
to
those
kinds
of
things.
So
it's
going
to
be
complete
quick
example.
If
you
don't
mind
the
one
of
the
things,
for
example,
so
I
was
working
on
on
this
project
called
GCS,
Google
cloud
storage
and
while
talking
to
customers,
they
were
asking
for
a
faster
listing
and
and
I
was
like
well
like.
A
C
And
I
was
like
well
how
about
I
tell
you
like
what
let
me.
Let
me
tell
you
when
new
things
come
up,
so
we
added
this
thing
into
the
GCS
called
object
notifications,
but
the
idea
was
that
you
could
respond
to
the
things
instead
of,
for
example,
polling,
so
that
was
in
and
the
way
you
would
do
that
is,
you
would
basically
get
the
web
hook.
C
That's
the
the
way
that
most
things
happen
nowadays,
so
there's
basically
a
white
book,
and
it
basically
says
Hey
things
have
happened
and,
and
the
the
serverless
is
is
a
it's
a
beautiful
way
to
marry
this
into
that
land,
because
that,
but
you
know
whether
you
do
a
push
to
GitHub,
but
then
you
get
a
new
notification,
whether
you
get
a
new
employee
at
it
or
anything
else.
Those
are
just
so
naturally
done
where
you
do
not
need
to
have
some
software.
C
A
C
A
Well,
that's
I
mean
and
what
I
like
in
particular
about
that
too?
It's
like
you
kind
of
are
starting
to
list
examples.
Is
that
the
kicker
all
as
well
is
that
you
don't
have
to
know
in
advance
what
you
will
ultimately
maybe
be
triggering
that
thing
with
right
is
that
you
know
you
could
you
know,
have
some
new,
you
know
infrastructure
component
or
whatever.
That
also
now
cares
about
new
objects
in
you
know
GCS.
So
now
it
just
starts
getting
notified
too,
which
I
think
is.
A
You
know
really
nice,
because
the
you
know
you
get
the
scaling
flexibility
on
the
kind
of
on
the
worker
side
right,
but
then
you
also
get
the
how
it
all
work
connects
together.
Flexibility
as
well
so
yeah,
I'm,
a
big
fan,
I
think
the
problem
or
or
maybe
I'll
ask
you
is
what
are
the
downsides
to
these
kinds
of
models?
What
what
don't
you
like
about
them?
You
know
from
a
developer
perspective
or
you
know
how
you're
rolling
it
out
kind
of
thing.
C
C
So
now
you
can
go
ahead
and
say
this
is
how
the
event
should
flow
like
instead
of
the
you
know,
the
this
is
the
emergent
Behavior.
This
is
the
system
I
have
versus
the
system
that
I
would
like
to
have
and
for
being
able
to
go
ahead
and
look
at
it
and
understand
this.
This
is
how
my
Eventing
info
should
look
like
here's.
The
event
should
flow
like,
and
then
you
can
always
test
things
when
you
have
a
very
common
interface.
C
So
we
and
a
lot
of
the
work
that
we,
you
know
kind
of,
came
out
of
that
land
as
well.
That
bigger
k-native
thing
was
the
cloud
events
work
so
that
there's
this
interop
so
that
you
don't
have
to
go
ahead
and
come
in
and
be
able
to
go
ahead
and
again,
going
back
to
original
kubernetes
point
is
start
making
choice
right
up
front
like
I'm
choosing.
You
know,
Kafka
I'm,
choosing
rabbit
I'm.
C
Choosing
this
you
can
go
ahead
and
decouple
some
of
that
thing,
which
is
the
obvious
benefits
of
being
able
to
go
ahead
and
bring
up
the
entire
stack
up.
But
now
you
can
use
something
cheap
and
cheerful,
like
in
memory
right.
If
it's,
if
you're
doing
testing
it
doesn't
cost
you
anything
well,
it
doesn't
cost
you
as
much
as
spinning
up,
say
a
Kafka
thing
or
Pub
sub
or
anything
else
like
that.
B
Yeah
I
got
one
actually
some
questions,
so
if
you're
amazed,
so
you
know
also
the
event
and
then
so
go
back
to
some
term.
It's
a
Wrangler
already
mentioned
about
the
summer
last
issue.
People.
Maybe
some
people,
don't
understand
what
that
means
exactly
and
then
more
important
thing
is
people
really
use
interchangeably
like
a
software
less
versus
function,
even
if,
like
the
Amazon,
random
or
Azure
function,
even
the
k-native
and
kubernetes
people
saying
something
less,
maybe
sometimes
equal
function,
but
sometimes
some
people
said
it's
not
equal.
B
D
C
I,
don't
I
I,
don't
think
I
have
a
very
good
answer
to
it.
I
think
it's
kind
of
the
point
about
England's
point
we
just
talked
about
which
is
you're
responding
to
events
and
where
it's
you
just
get
invoked
I
think
it's
just
a
different
name
for
a
workload
that
basically
just
needs
to
respond
to
an
event
whether
that
event
is
an
HTTP
post
from
a
user
or
whether
it's
a
something
else.
A
C
C
C
It
then
it
gets
very,
very
complex
in
a
hurry,
so
by
being
able
to
decouple
those
two
things
you
can
just
like
in
the
case
of
Daniel
to
sing
like
you
know
the
difference
they
function
so
I'm
just
going
to
use
the
term
function
here.
So
let's
say
I
want
to
go
and
add
like
a
debug
function,
for
example
or
me,
functionality
I
can
just
go
ahead
and
create
a
new
function
and
wire
it
from
the
consumption
side.
C
Saying:
hey,
I'm
interested
in
those
events
and
and
those
kinds
of
things
become
super
easy
if
you
can
go
ahead
and
standardize
on
some
way
of
what
that
Eventing
infrastructure
gives
you
so
the
cloud
events
which
becomes
very
easy
for
us
to
ship
around
from
Cloud
to
Cloud
right
just
an
envelope.
So
it's
very
straightforward.
A
A
If
you
start
thinking
in
an
event-driven
way,
it
does
actually
get
pretty
straightforward,
but
but
you
have
to
kind
of
you
know
if,
especially
if
you're
a
developer
who's
been
kind
of
doing
traditional
models
for
a
long
time,
you
kind
of
have
to
turn
your
brain
kind
of
on
its
side
and
start
thinking.
This
other
model
I
think
I
have
an
advantage
because
I
actually
did
Microsoft
com.
A
Yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah,
yeah
yeah,
we
did,
we
did
some
really
I
would
say
crazy
things
because
we
did
more
most
of
the.
So
the
company
I
work,
for
we
did
a
lot
of
Consulting,
but
a
lot
of
it
was
in
Visual
Basic
and,
however,
we
needed
to
do
unusual
things
so
periodically.
We
would
like
rewrite
V
tables
and
RAM,
and
you
know
we
did
things
like.
A
You
know,
basically
writing
assembly
that
we
injected
into
various
points
and
and
then
would
you
know,
drive
an
event
off
of
it
because
Visual
Basic
couldn't
do
it,
but
we
didn't
you
know,
because
we
were
a
consulting
company.
We
we
had
to.
We
had
to
use
what
they
had
right
and
so
yeah
it
was
It
was
kind
of
messed
up,
but.
A
B
Yeah
I
totally
with
that
I
mean
Evangel.
Even
the
architecture
and
the
silverlass
is
super
nice
combination,
and
so
recently
I
have
some
experience
to
talk
about
sabote's
topic,
and
then
people
really
wanted
me
eventually
how
to
enable
Evangelical
stuff
into
serverless
architectural
platform,
and
then
one
common
question
actually
come
up
with
like
a
cater
like
a
kubernetes
Evangeline
Auto
scaling
and
people
really
wondering
specifically
developer.
B
They
don't
care
about
the
infrastructure
layer,
they're
really
looking
for
the
nice
way,
how
to
some
kind
of
platform
handle
my
application
at
the
summer
lesson
like
overscaling,
like
a
suffer
less
and
they're,
really
wondering.
Is
there
some
kind
of
like
a
something
good,
how
to
use
K
native
and
then
cater
at
the
same
time
or
develop
a
standpoint
so
I
just
wondering
some
kind
of
inside
based
on
your
experience.
C
Yeah
I
think
I
think
there
is
there's
a
cada
Auto
scaler
that
I
think
I
even
have
contributed
to
I.
Think
if
it
doesn't
work,
I
think
it
should
just
work
right,
just
a
quick
overview
for
folks,
so
K
native,
basically
scales,
Up
and
Down
based
on.
If
you
think
about
push,
so
it's
a
PP
pushes
so,
whereas
cada
and
and
some
of
the
well
step
back
a
little
bit
more.
C
So
with
the
event
driven,
you
have
two
there's
more,
let's
say:
there's
two
things:
there's
push
and
pull
model,
so
one
of
them
is
I
feed
the
events
and-
and
you
do
you
do
something
with
them
and
in
the
other
case,
you
basically
pull
events
out
of
there
and
for
the
poll
based
ones.
Keda
is
is
kind
of
the
complement
to
the
K
natives,
push-based
Auto
scaling,
so
I
I
think
Kata
should
just
sort
of
kind
of
work,
depending
on
how
you
set
things
up
right,
yeah,
right.
A
That's
like
that's
like,
like
I,
don't
know,
that's
the
key
in
a
lot
of
like
the
kind
of
this
infrastructure
software
right.
It's
like
yeah,
the
the
headache
of
of
writing
all
that
yaml
to
figure
out
how
to
design
it
or
how
to
express
it.
But
it's
a
it's
kind
of
a
you
know,
sort
of
kind
of
a
one-time
thing
right
in
the
sense
that
you
know
kind
of
once.
A
You
figure
out
how
you
want
to
express
the
thing,
then
it
because
you're,
you're,
you're
you're,
you're,
you're
authoring
your
like
desired
state
right
it
just
kind
of
gets
there
and
you
don't
have
to
like
worry
about
like
how
it
does
it
and
and
then,
and
what
I
particularly
like
is
the
the
idea
with
you
know.
Kind
of,
like
you
know,
cada
I
think,
is
a
good
example
in
that
hey,
hey
some.
Some
smart
people
had
a
cool
idea
about
how
to
make
this
part
of
the
application
that
you're
expressing
work
better.
A
B
Yeah,
that's
exactly
the
beauty
of
Open
Source
a
project.
Sometimes
it's
a
project
having
some
competition
each
other,
but
sometimes
they
actually
happen
to
combine,
for
example
like
it's
enough
or
less,
but
you
know
as
an
example
like
open
Telemetry
is
to
actually
combined
open,
sensors
and
open
tracing.
So
previously
there
was
a
big
competition.
B
Now
they
combined
one
big
super
project
and
then
that's
why
people
really
wondering
there
was
so
many
like
a
serverless
opposites
of
project
like
a
k,
native
or
cater
or
other
stuff,
and
then
looking
for
the
better
way,
combined
and
combination
stuff
yeah.
That's
exactly
I
really
agree
with
that.
Like
that.
Go
ahead.
A
Yeah,
so
so
to
kind
of
get
to
the
you
know
the
Crux
of
the
show
right.
It's
like
what
are
you
thinking,
let's
say
the
next
six
months
the
next
year
like
what
is
it
that's
happening
in
kind
of
K
native
land
that
you're
kind
of
most
excited
about,
or
you
think
most
people
should
be
like
paying
attention
to.
A
C
Yeah
well,
I,
think
I
think
the
the
call
K
native
is
is,
is
gonna,
be,
hopefully
going
to
be
getting
the
point
where
there's
going
to
be
incremental
changes
and
then
there's
going
to
be
something
really
big
right
and
the
sum
of
the
the
the
the
the
big
things
that
always
are
is
how
do
you
make
it
faster,
better,
stronger
right.
So
these
are
some
of
the
things
that
folks
have
been
working
on
for
a
while.
C
Now
because
there's
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
trickery
that
has
to
be
done
and
then
there's
some
trickery
that
just
can't
be
done
just
like
okay.
Well,
you
can't
do
that,
but
I
think
there's
going
to
be
a
lot
of
advances
in
that
area
and
then
the
the
other
answer
is
I'm,
hoping
that
it's
just
going
to
be
it
just
works
and
all
of
a
sudden
you
get
the
new
version.
C
C
Hoping
kubernetes
is
going
to
be
very
just
like
all
the
stuff
that
is
on
top
of
it.
It's
just
like
that.
That's
where
the
Innovation
comes
from,
and
then
the
second
point
about
that
is
is
the
developer
experience,
so
the
the
my
whole
career,
pretty
much
I've
been
working
for
the
developer,
basically,
building
tools
and,
and
things
like
that,
there's
been
a
few
stints
on
building
products
and
everything
else,
but
for
the
for
the
longest
part
it's
been.
C
It's
been
tools
and
with
the
developer
as
the
customer
and
and
that's
where
I'm
fairly
excited
about
the
the
the
functions
working
group
so
there's
been,
this
is
a
land
lands
ball
who's
been
driving
that
work
among
others,
I,
don't
remember
all
of
them,
so
so
my
apologies,
but
on
sort
of
kind
of
how
do
we
go
ahead
and
bring
new
functionality
on
it?
That
is
not
quote:
unquote:
core
K
native,
but
the
thriving
on
top
of
that.
C
So
just
like
kubernetes
there's,
there's
there's
the
the
core
kubernetes,
but
there's
a
lot
of
stuff
that
is
happening
on
top
of
it
that
that
I
think
is
going
to
be
very
it's
going
to
be
exciting.
It's
okay
native!
You
know
as
as
itself
it's
it's
not
the
end-all,
it
just
the.
How
does
it
enable
other
folks
to
actually
not
even
worry
about
K
native?
So
personally,.
A
You
know
in
k-native,
for
lack
of
a
better
term
is
where
is
kind
of
trying
to
ease
that
complexity
that
that
we
were
talking
about
before
right.
It's
like
how
can
I
make
it
simpler
to
understand
how
to
express
the
event
architecture
I
want
or
how
do
I
make
it
simpler
to
understand.
Okay,
we
had
a
failure
here.
How
do
I
know
what
you
know
or
how
do
I
replicate
it?
How
do
I
see
it?
How
do
I?
A
How
do
I
sometimes
even
know
that
there
was
a
failure,
right,
yeah
and
so
I
think
all
that
tool
chain.
You
know
that,
like
it's,
okay,
you
know
but
I
think
it
could.
It
could
be
so
much
better.
You
know-
and
this
is
where
we
need
you
know-
kind
of
all-
those
ux
folks
of
the
world
right
is
like
where
you
know
how.
A
You
know
this
is
not
good,
and
so
it's
just
extra
frustrating
right
yeah.
So
so
that's
what
I,
I
really
I
completely
agree
with
you
I'd
like
very
much.
You
know
what
I
want
to
see
is
more
event.
You
know
not
pool
but
like
things
that
do
events
right,
yeah
and
then
you
know,
and
but
the
kind
of
the
rest
of
the
ad
infrastructure
to
continue
to
get
boring,
but
then
have
the
tool
chain
on
the
side
which
is
telling
you
how
it
works
and
how
to
make
it
work.
A
A
B
A
Right
right,
all
right
so
kind
of
you
know
we
we
try
to
prepare
a
list
of
questions
in
advance
so
that
we,
you
know,
have
somewhere
to
go
about
things
that
we
want
to
talk
about
so
yeah.
So
you
know
you
started
this
company
chain
guard.
What
do
you
do?
What
does
chain
guard
do
sure
that
may
be
a
leading
question.
I
may
know
the
answer,
but
you
know
yeah.
B
C
Yeah
chain
card
is,
is
all
about
securing
the
software
supply
chain,
so
we
wanna
yes,
so
we
want
to
go
and
make
the
software
supply
chain
security
software
secure
by
default.
So
the
reason
why
the
by
default
is
so
so
so
important
and
and
crucial
there
is
that,
just
like
you
know,
and
now
I'm
just
going
to
jump
just
a
little
bit
back
to
the
Canadian
for
the
first
time.
C
But
then
I
come
back
there,
but
the
principles
there
were
again
that,
like
things
should
just
work
in
kubernetes
by
itself
was
very
hard
and
if
you
did
all
the
things
right,
you've
got
the
things
up
and
running,
but
the
cognitive
load
to
get
there
and
the
chance
of
making
a
mistake
was
very
high.
So
with
the
K
native,
the
idea
was
that
everything
is
reasonable
and
best
practices
by
default.
So
you
kind
of
have
to
go
out
of
your
way,
go
ahead
and
find
a.
B
C
Job
to
turn
it
and
go
like
dash
dash
break
me,
I
know
what
I'm
doing
and
you're
like
well.
Okay,
well,
I,
don't
know
that's
sort
of
kind
of
want
to
happen.
So
the
same
thing,
sort
of
kind
of
applies
with
the
chain
card
and
and
and
our
philosophy
on
how
we
think
about
the
the
software
security
where
it
again
is
I
used
before
is
there's
just
no
dash
dash.
You
know,
make
it
secure
flag
or
it
just
it.
Just
doesn't
work
like
that.
It's
a
holistic
problem!
C
A
So
you
said
a
really
big
thing
there,
which
I
think
for
a
lot
of
people
needs.
Explanation
is
what
do
you
mean
by
a
secure
supply
chain
like
like
what
is
like?
Where
is
you
know?
Supply
chains
is
how
I
get
you
know,
equipment
to
military
in
the
field
right,
so
we
talk
about
it
in
kubernetes
land
a
little
bit.
C
My
software
is
secured
because
you
run
the
various
things
on
it
right
and-
and
that
is
your
piece
of
software
that
you
use,
and
you
know,
let's
say
you
produce
hello
world
in
order
for
you
to
produce
that
hello
world,
there's
a
lot
of
things
that
happened
before
that,
there's
a
lot
of
libraries
that
are
being
dependent
on
there's
a
lot
of
tools
that
are
actually
producing
that
hello
world
right.
So
that's
the
simplest
example.
C
So
there's
your
tool
chain
right
there
right,
so
you
have
the
dependencies
that
you
take
and
you
don't
even
think
about
you
don't
know.
What's
in
them,
I.
Nobody
goes
in
and
looks
at
them
when
you're
doing
the
hate
building
and
then
the
other
one
is
the
compiler
right
so
well.
How
do
you
know
that
the
compiler
is
not
being
tampered
yet,
so
that
is
a
that
is
the
probably
the
smallest
example
of
sort
of
kind
of
being
able
to
go
and
say
well
what
is
my
supply
chain?
C
So
you
basically
go
ahead
and
the
other
way
that
folks,
sometimes
think
about
the
supply
chain
is
is,
is
comparing
it
to
food
supply
chain.
Analogies
right,
so
you
know
the
ingredients
and
then
you
know
the
recipe
right.
So
you
can
go
ahead
and
look
into
the
back
of
the
oatmeal.
Oatmeal
is
pretty
bad
because
they're
pretty
easy,
but
even
then
you
can
trace
back
to
where
it
came
from
and
everything
else.
C
So
when
you
start
building
more
and
more
systems,
you
have
built
systems
right
and
now
this
build
systems
do
all
kinds
of
various
things
on
face
and
they
are
running
on
on
places
that
you
don't
necessarily
even
have
have
control
over.
So
you
need
to
have
some
kinds
of
guarantees
and
understandings
of
what
is
being
happening
there,
and
this
has
been
a
prom.
C
C
A
C
And
so
the
the
provenance
and
being
able
to
track
it
back
now,
going
back
to
the
cookie
thing
like
the
FDA
comes
in
and
goes
like,
you
know
approved
right,
you're,
good
to
go
so
in
in
so
one
of
the
projects
that
we
Folks
at
changed.
Our
part
of
founding
was
it's
called
six
store
and
again
open
source.
C
So
this
is
something
that
we
are
very
very
actively
working
on
on
on
on
tackling
one
part
of
the
supply
chain,
which
is
the
province
and
being
able
to
understand.
Okay,
what
is
running
in
your
software
can
I
trust
it
who
produced
it.
How
was
it
produced,
and
so
sixth
stone
is
the
project
there's
also
other
things
that
we
have
been
working
on
in
Sab.
C
This
is
not
not
just
us,
but
the
the
community
as
well
is
is
salsa,
which
is
the
ability
to
go
ahead
and
say
how
good
is
your
software
supply
chain,
and
it
basically
is
a
rating
from
one
to
four
and
for
each
level
the
higher
you
go
higher
means
better,
sometimes
always
scaling
it's
like.
Is
it
better
or
worse
right
with
the
CVS
higher
is
worse
solves
the
case?
C
It's
better
and
it
basically
just
goes
gives
you
ways
to
assess
the
maturity
of
the
software
supply
chain
and
it
starts
with
things
it
includes
things
like
do
you
have
automated
builds?
Does
anybody
look
at
the
code
that
gets
committed?
Do
you
have
any
kind
of
processes
in
place
to
go
ahead
and
and
get
eyeballs
looking
on
the
code
and
saying
yeah,
it's
been
reviewed
and
and
so
forth.
C
It's
you
can't
just
go
ahead
and
think
about
it
as
again
dash
dash
make
it
secure
flag.
There
is
no
such
thing
and
the
the
supply
chain
is
very,
very
long
right.
So
if
you
start
thinking
about
the
dependencies-
and
we
start
thinking
about-
you
talked
a
little
bit
about
that,
because
I
can
understand,
go
ahead
and
say:
where
did
this
software
come
from
and
they
can
go
ahead
and
transitively
then
go
and
put
some
put
some
guarantees
about
it.
C
That's
good
and
you
can
maybe
sort
of
kind
of
see
how
some
of
those
things
can
flow
through,
but
the
one
thing
that
I
am
super
excited
and
since
I
have
the
floor,
I'm
gonna
go
and
take
a
moment
to
say
at
at
some
point.
This
code
is
actually
going
to
go
ahead
and
be
baked
into,
and
since
we
are
in
the
kubernetes
land
right,
it's
going
to
be
a
container
right.
Well,
containers
always
need
a
base
image
and
they
need
to
be
go
ahead
and
running
on
something.
C
So
so
the
one
thing
that
I'm
super
excited
about
is
this
thing
called
wolfu
that
we
just
announced
last
Thursday
that
I
think.
Oh,
it's
it's
so
cool
I.
It
basically
is
super
minimal,
undistrolled,
there's
different
Little
Words.
There
and
I
I
shouldn't
be
put
in
front
of
everything
because
I
don't
always
remember
everything,
but
it
it
it
it
it.
It's
super
small.
A
C
Basically,
by
being
able
to
go
ahead
and
turn
it
down
super
tiny
and
with
one
you
know,
there's
always
this
articles
like
with
this
one
weird
little
trick
right
and
in
this
case
it
typically
this
says
it
really
is
just
like
that,
where
you
just
go
change
your:
where
are
you?
What
are
you
basing
on
me
John
and
you
can
basically
do
two
things
so
going
back
to
my
gold
cold
start
example
earlier
when
I
said,
like
I
expect
fun
things
out
of
that.
A
B
B
Comment,
yeah
yeah
sure
so
I
I'm
kind
of
remorse
is
how
we
import
the
supply
chain
with
security,
not
even
developers,
but
also
like
a
platform
engineering.
So
I
just
really
quick
question
around
that.
So
you
know
also
a
lot
of
people
in
platform
engineering
and
then
like
a
developer,
really
looking
forward
to
how
to
integrate
increasing
in
like
a
CNC
project
like
a
kubernetes
ecosystem
with
a
supply
chain.
B
C
That's
a
great
question
so
sort
of
kind
of
going
back
to
the.
How
do
you
know
what's
running
so
one
of
the
one
of
the
things
that
we
have
been
very
actively
involved
in
is
making
sure
that
we
can
answer.
The
question
am
I
running
the
kubernetes.
That
I
was
supposed
to
be
running,
which
is
you
want
to
be
able
to
go
ahead
and
have
a
high
degree
of
confidence
that
when
I
put
my
workload
into
kubernetes,
it
actually
is
kubernetes
and
not
kubernetes.
C
Prime
that's
been
slightly
modified,
so
one
of
the
things
that
we
and-
and
you
know
other
other
folks
in
the
community
as
well
have
been
working
on
is
making
sure
that
the
software
is
signed
so
that
you,
you
can
understand
like
the
kubernetes
itself.
It
has
the
s-bombs
and
that
that
again,
I
didn't
explain
that.
But
s-bomb
is
basically
a
software
bill
of
material.
So
s-bomb
is
a
machine,
readable
format
for
being
able
to
understand
what
is
in
this
software
package.
C
So,
just
like
the
again,
you
look
at
the
pack
of
twink,
a
pack
of
Twinkies
Keys,
you
see
what's
in
it
and
then
you
can
make
choices
and
whether
you
should
eat
or
not,
but
with
the
s-bomb.
You
have
the
same
thing.
You
can
see
what
is
in
there
and
make
choices.
Well,
should
I
run
this
if
you
know
that
it
contains
a
vulnerable
piece
of
component
in
there,
so.
A
Right
yeah,
so
I
was
going
to
kind
of
elaborate
on
that
a
little
bit
in
that
I
think
this
is
one
of
the
key.
You
know
kind
of
not
typically
recognize
advantages
of
Open
Source
right
is
that
you
don't
you
don't
have
to
have
any
trust
in
the
system
for
any
individual
organization
right
in
the
sense
that
you
know
yeah,
maybe
I
trust
chain
guard
to
you
know
because
they're
providing
me
software,
that's
doing
this
auditing
or
whatever,
but
if.
A
You
know
your
your
food
example
I
think
is
really
interesting,
because
I
haven't
actually
heard
anybody
talk
about
that
before,
but
as
a
as
a
family
with
food
allergies
at
home,
we
care
a
lot
about
the
provenance
of
food
right,
especially
like
cross-contamination
and
things
like
that,
whereas
even
in
so
far
as
we've
called
the
factories
before
and
said,
hey
when
you
said
made
in
a
place,
you
know
how.
How
do
you
actually
manage
your
lines?
You
know,
do
you?
Actually,
you
know?
A
Is
there
real
separation,
and
you
know
with
the
the
advantage
of
Open
Source
off
right
software
right-
is
that
we
can
kind
of
go.
Do
all
the
way
back
right,
all
the
way
back
to
the
smallest
little
bit
and
figure
out
exactly
what's
going,
you
know
happening
where
you
know
sure
I
can
make
the
phone
call
to
the
factory
and
find
out
what
they
do
in
their
lines.
But
all
I
have
is
their
word
and
you
know
I,
don't
you
know
I,
don't
have
any
way
of
of
proving
it
to
myself.
A
You
know
it
might
be
a
little
excessive,
but
you
know
like
it's
not
like.
There's
cameras
in
the
factory
that
I
can
access
and
see
what
they're
doing
right,
whereas
I
think
with
the
with
kind
of
that
whole
supply
chain
of
software
here,
and
you
can
have
your
your
s-bombs
right
being
very,
very
detailed
and
very,
very
accurate,
and
so,
but
you
can
kind
of
see
that
whole
chain
of
software,
so
I
think
you
know.
The
idea
with
Wolfie
right
is
that
you
can
kind
of
describe
that.
A
C
That
that
that's
a
great
question
and
we
actually
have
and
I'm
going
to
go
ahead
and
answer
your
question
a
little
bit
but
I
also
say
one
additional
thing
that
I
think
that
that
I'm,
just
as
excited
about
it,
just
like
you
know
one
of
your
children,
you
can't
have
favorites
right
so
so
we
also
introduced
this
Academy
because
we
we
think
that
again
like
this
is
a
complex
prom.
So
we
introduced
an
academy
to
go
ahead
and
make
it
to
help
folks
educate
themselves.
C
So
this
again
is
just
you
know
a
free
service,
because
we
think
being
at
least
aware
of
these
issues
and
then
how
to
start
tackling
them
is,
is
super
important
again,
it's
sort
of
kind
of
unfair
to
go
and
say:
well,
you
know
yeah.
Of
course
you
will
understand
how
six
store
works.
It's
like
go
read
the
source
code.
C
Yeah
yeah,
so
so
one
of
the
so
one
of
the
things
that
we
have
been
trying
to
go
ahead
and
and
have
put
a
lot
of
effort
and
I'm
really
proud
of
the
work
that
we've
done.
There
is
the
academy
so
that
folks
can
go
in
there
re-educate
themselves
and
not
only
that
but
get
hands-on
experience
with
some
of
the
Tooling
in
a
in
in
their
browser.
So
they
can
go
and
start
understanding
how
to
do
some
of
these
things.
C
So
so
that
is
probably
where
I
will
put
folks
first
to
go
ahead
and
and
take
a
peek
at
it
because
it
does
contain
many
of
those.
But
it's
like
how
do
I
get
my
stuff,
but
in
many
of
the
cases
to
your
point
it
it
many
of
the
cases.
It
should
just
be
a
matter
of
changing.
You
know
when
you're
building,
typically
most
people
built
their
stuff
with
you
know
from
Docker,
and
they
have
the
front
line
the
this.
C
A
Yeah
yeah
I
gotcha
cool
did
were
there
any
other
things
we
wanted
to
cover.
I
know
we
wanted
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
kubecon
before
we
wrapped
up
the
show
for
today,
but
it
was
there.
You
know,
I
think
the
the
Wolfie
container
I
think
that
sounds
really
interesting.
I'll
definitely
be
checking
it
out
more
after
the
show.
A
A
So
you
know
I
I,
like
them
a
lot
I
think
that
you
know
and
but
I
think
that
the
at
the
end
of
the
day,
I
think
what
your
one
of
the
things
to
really
point
out
is
that
supply
chain
problem
is
that
a
lot
of
people
don't
realize
how
you
know
how
many
possibilities
there
are
for
injection
of
error
right
it
can.
It
doesn't
even
have
to
be
malicious
right.
A
You
know
the
examples
we've
brought
up
mostly
have
been
malicious,
but
you
know
it
can
just
be
accidental
and
you
know
and
and
part
of
having
a
you
know,
a
supply
chain.
You
understand,
you
know
whether
you
know
whether
you
call
it
secure
or
just
you
know,
awareness
and
all
that
stuff
I
think
it's
really
really
important,
because
you
need
to
make
sure
that
the
software
that
you're
building
you
know
is
is
what
you
think
it
is.
You
know
and
that's
a
that's
a
huge
Point.
C
I,
don't
think
I
mean
please
go
check.
Those
things
out,
I
think
that
they're
pretty
awesome.
If
you're
interested
in
finding
out
about
more
of
this
space,
educating
yourself
learning
about
things
go
check.
Those
out.
Thank
you
for
having
me
on
the
show
and
yeah
I
mean
I'm
I'm
I'm
around.
If
people
have
other
questions,
you
know,
I'm
pretty
approachable
person.
A
Exactly
awesome:
well,
thanks!
So
much
for
your
time.
We
really
appreciate
it.
We
really
like
to
hear
you
know,
like
I,
said,
from
the
perspectives
of
people,
you
know
who
are
kind
of
actively
engaged
inside
kubernetes
land
to
find
out.
You
know
what
what
they
think
is
going
on.
You
know,
because
it's
always
difficult
from
the
outside
looking
in
or
as
a
consumer,
it
can
be
really
difficult
to
keep
track
of.
A
D
A
D
D
So
now
we're
going
to
be
in
Detroit
and
let's
see
if,
if
any
of
you
are
like
me,
you
probably
procrastinate
and
you
haven't
registered
for
kubecon.
Yet
so,
if
you
haven't
registered
I
got
a
20
off
discount
code
for
you
I,
don't
I
can't
throw
it
in
chat
but
Langdon.
If
you
can
throw
it
in
there
for
me,
there's
a
promo
code
use
it
register
we'll
see
you
in
Detroit
and
then
once
you
register
check
out
our
four
talk
that
we're
doing
Langdon.
A
So
we're
gonna
do
a
panel
interview
of
some
of
the
leadership
at
Ford
with
their
kind
of
developer,
tooling
and
and
kubernetes.
You
know
kind
of
related
stuff,
so
they
actually
like
to
use
Coop
by
example,
as
part
of
the
way
they
teach
their
developers
more
about
kubernetes
and
and
such
right
and
and
so
we're
gonna.
A
Do
a
panel
interview,
I,
think
it's
late
in
the
day
on
Wednesday
and
you
know,
and
it'll
basically,
three
of
us
on
stage
I'm
gonna
talk
about
from
the
perspective
of
my
interactions
with
students
and
and
the
idea
behind,
containerization
and
the
challenges
of
you
know.
Most
of
them
are
still
working
through
what
a
virtual
machine
is
right,
but
getting
to
Containers
is
a
whole
nother
level,
and
then
orchestration
of
containers
is
even
further
beyond
that.
A
So
I'm
going
to
talk
about
it
from
kind
of
my
perspective
of
trying
to
work
with
students
they're
going
to
talk
about
it
from
their
perspective,
working
with
their
internal
developers.
Who've
kind
of
like
have
similar
challenges
right
because,
but
even
though
they've
been
doing
development
for
a
long
long
time,
they
they
know
how
to
do
their
development,
and
so
changing
that
is
is
often
challenging
so
and
some
advantages
that
Cube
by
example,
the
website
has
worked
to
to
help
solve
those
problems.
Yeah.
D
Definitely
and
I
know
the
Florida,
the
folks
at
Ford
mentioned
they
watch
the
show
as
well
so
shout
out
to
them.
If
they're
watching
right
now
also
Ford
is
heavily
recruiting
at
kubecon,
so
they
are
also
a
sponsor.
So
just
Insider
tidbit
there
if
you're
looking
for
a
job
cool,
so
Katie
Insider
is
going
to
be
at
Detroit
as
well
we're
taking
the
show
live
partnering
with
Ford.
They
are
lending
us
a
Mustang,
mock
e,
GT
I.
D
Believe
so
we'll
be
doing
some
car
interviews,
Langdon
will
be
driving
and
we
have
a
bunch
of
passengers
lined
up
whole
set
of
All-Stars
I'd,
say
so.
I'm
really
excited
about
that.
If
you
see
the
car,
give
us
a
shout
out,
it's
rap,
it's
getting
wrapped,
you
know
so.
It'll
be
cool,
you'll,
see
the
kve
Branded
Maki
driving
around
Detroit
and
then
for
any
of
you
call
for
papers
is
open
so
for
kubecon,
EU
and
Amsterdam.
A
Yeah,
so
if
anybody
on
the
show
has
any
recommendations
for
what
we
should
call
this
Extravaganza,
you
know
because
we
we
could
use
the
help
because
our
you
know,
if
you
know
anything
about
my
history,
I
have
a
past
history
of
of
doing
a
very
job,
bad
job
of
naming
things
so
yeah.
So
any
any
contributions
would
be
appreciated.
D
What
else
are
we
doing
so
I'm
working
with
Daniel
o?
We
got
an
awesome
conveyor
workshop
at
openshift,
Commons
Gathering,
that's
co-lo,
co-located
to
kubecon,
amongst
all
the
other
co-location
events
that
kubecon
I
think
there's
like
almost
25
various
co-located
events
so
check
it
out,
but
we
have
the
conveyor
Workshop,
which
is
I'm
really
excited
about
it.
Are
you
excited
Daniel,
we're
a
Sandbox
project
now
so
yeah.
B
Absolutely
absolutely,
and
if
the
conveyor
Workshop
we're
going
to
give
us
some
chance
for
all
attendees
how
to
try
your
experience
so
and
then
we
really
more
than
happy
to
get
some
feedback
from
all
of
you
and
it
will
end
up
with
improving
ourselves
in
the
community
as
well.
Yeah,
really
looking
forward
to
that
yeah.
D
D
D
A
Yeah
yeah
I
need
to
I
need
to
work
faster
to
make
sure
I
hit
the
deadlines,
but
yes,
yeah
plenty
of
time.
Yeah,
the
the
beginning
of
the
semester.
This
semester
really
hit
like
a
train
wreck.
So
it's
been.
It's
been
a
tough
or
a
complicated
September,
as
evidenced
by
my
tweet
that
went
out
at
3
45
this
morning,
talking
about
the
show
being
on
in
an
hour
so
yeah
like
clearly
clearly
not
at
my
normal
quality
levels
of
social
media
but
yeah.
A
So
that
should
be
really
cool,
I,
really
like
explaining
CI
and
CD
to
people,
because
people
really
don't
understand
what
it
really
means
and
why
it's
so
important,
especially
and
how
difficult
it
is
to
retrofit
onto
a
project
that,
if
you
don't
start
off
with
those
kinds
of
models,
it
can
be
really
really
difficult.
I'm
also
really
excited
to
see.
Hernandez's
Argo
stuff,
you
know
get
up.
A
D
D
D
Cool
yep,
so
k-native
learning
path.
There
shout
out
to
the
team
that
worked
on
that
Joel's
team
at
Red,
Hat
yeah
super
excited
about
chain
guard
having
their
own
Academy.
That's
pretty
cool
too.
All
about
you
know,
sharing
more
learnings
with
the
community,
but
that's
it
for
me
on
kubecon
I'm
just
really
excited
to
go
to
Detroit
and
see
people
again.
This
is
my
first
conference
back
since.
A
A
D
A
B
A
You
know,
because
those
are
a
lot
of
fun
and
Red
Hat
Summit
used
to
have
really
strong
ones
actually
years
ago,
and
you
know
so
I
wouldn't
mind.
Seeing
those
come
back
to
I.
Don't
think
kubecon
does
one,
though,
as
I
recall,
but
maybe
that's
something
they
could
do
in
the
future,
but
I
think
they're
they're
a
lot
of
fun
when
you
can
like
bring
the
family
to
a
conference.
A
All
right:
well,
thanks
everybody.
You
know
again
thank
you
to
vile
for
our
for
being
on
the
show,
and
you
know
I
think
and
per
Tam,
giving
us
one
of
our
best
interviews,
and
you
know
we're
excited
to
see
y'all.
You
know
as
many
as
we
can
at
kubecon,
you
know,
or
you
can
watch
the
the
videos
of
the
you
know
the
shows
afterwards,
both
our
interviews
but
then
obviously
also
the
talks
themselves,
and
so
we
strongly
encourage
it.
A
Conferences
can
be
a
really
good
way
to
get
an
inside
track
on.
What's
coming
up,
because
people
like
to
come
and
talk
about,
you
know
people
like
to
present
new,
what's
new,
what's
coming
more
than
you
know
what
exists
so
so
there
couldn't
be
a
really
good
way
to
get
an
inside
track
and
that's
the
show.