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From YouTube: Qualitative Analysis for Digital Transformation John Willis Red Hat OpenShift Commons Briefing
Description
Qualitative Analysis for Digital Transformation
John Willis Red Hat
Office of Global Transformation
OpenShift Commons Briefing
#TransformationFriday #OrganizationalChange #DevOps
A
Well,
hello,
everybody
and
welcome
again
to
another
openshift
commons
briefing
on
transformation
friday.
Today
we
have
a
wonderful
speaker
and
guest
john
willis,
the
office
of
global
transformation.
Here
at
red
hat,
you
probably
know
him
as
bacha
kalupa.
I
think
that's
how
you
pronounce
it
there
you
go
and
from
his
work
in
devops
and
the
phoenix
project.
So
today
he's
going
to
walk
us
down
an
alley.
A
I
think
that
I've
watched
him
do
qualitative
data
analysis
from
lots
of
notebooks
and
notes
and
post-it
stickers
and
all
kinds
of
things,
but
how
we
take
that
and
turn
that
process
and
use
some
computer
assisted
methods
to
do
this
as
well
and
how
you
can
take
that
into
your
organization.
So
I'm
gonna,
let
john
introduce
himself
introduce
the
topic
there'll
be
time
at
the
end
for
live
q,
a
just
ask
in
the
chat
and
with
that
john
take
it
away.
A
B
Anyway,
if
you've
been
paying
attention
on
fridays,
you've
probably
seen
these
the
four
of
us
we're
called
the
global
transformation
office.
That's
andrew
clay,
schaefer
and
that's
kevin,
bear
who's
co-author
of
the
phoenix
project.
That's
me
the
short
guy
and
then
j
bloom
who
I
just
talked
about
andrew
likes
to
say
we
wrote
the
books
or
wrote
some
books.
I
guess
you
know
kevin
project.
I
did
a
collaboration
collaborative
project
with
gene
called
beyond
the
phoenix
project.
I
was
called
the
devops
handbook.
B
In
fact,
we're
talking
about
the
year
anniversary
coming
up
next
year
book,
so
revised,
so
pay
attention.
Andrew
wrote,
some
chapters
web
operates,
site,
reliability
and
kevin
was
one
of
the
original
authors
of
visible
ops.
I
was
an
advisor
on
the
unicorn
project,
I'm
not
really
credited
as
an
author,
but
I'm
just
quickly
on
myself.
Again,
if
you
don't
know
who
I
am.
I've
spoken
a
couple
of
things
on
fridays,
I'm
part
of
gto,
but
I
just
listed
a
couple
of
the
sort
of
publications
I've
worked
on.
I
think
I've.
B
You
know
back
in
the
days
to
write,
ibm
red
books.
I've
probably
have
10
or
11
books
in
my
resume
over
many
years,
but
the
two,
I
think,
are
really
interesting,
I'm
not
even
today.
Normally
I
talk
about
automated
governance
and
so
there's
two
papers
that
are
out
there.
I.T
revolution
and
five
governments
are
owner
and
both
of
those
are
creative
commons
and
then
I've
only
sort
of
listed
the
last
12
years.
B
I've
worked
for
a
lot
of
companies,
I
think
I've
done
like
10
startups,
and
but
I
was
sold
a
company
a
docker.
I
was,
I
actually
started
my
career
at
exxon.
I
always
hit
red
hat
now
told
the
company
to
tell
all
good
stuff.
So
one
of
the
things
that
you
know
I've
been
doing
it's
an
awfully
long
time
right.
Like
I,
my
my
career
spans.
B
B
One
sales
person
myself
and
I
went
in
and
I
had
this
whole
notion
that,
like
I,
was
going
to
use
all
these
sort
of
prescriptive
ideas
that
I
had
learned
and
used,
and
you
know
learned
from
a
lot
of
sort
of
friends
you
know
being
in
in
sort
of
gene
kim's
tribe.
If
you
will
you
get
to
meet
like
leaders
across
some
of
the
biggest
industries
they're,
all
friends
of
mine
and
one
of
the
things
I
started
finding
out
is
I
I
started
sort
of
de-evolving
my
practice,
pretty
quick.
B
You
know
like,
for
example,
I
would
come
in
with
lean
value
stream
mapping
to
do
this,
and-
and
I
realized
there
was
a
lot
of
other
stuff
that
I
really
wanted
to
get
to.
You
know
think
about
truth,
but
I
needed
to
understand
about
your
organization
that
these
frameworks
got
in
a
way.
You
know
and-
and
I
you
know,
I'm
a
big
fan
and
I'm
just
calling
frameworks-
I'm
not
sure
what
you
call
them,
but
things
like
lean
values
to
mapping.
I
think
it's
an
incredible
tool.
B
I
think
it's
the
worst
tool
to
start
with
and
I'll
explain
why
and
you
know
horizon
based
stuff
or
a
zone.
The
wind-
I
don't
know,
if
maybe
eventually
I'll
agree
with
it.
I
think
it
could
be
used
inappropriate
whatever.
So
the
second
sort
of
you
know
thing
that
I
think
gets
away.
Transformation
is.
This
is
impersonal.
B
Like
some
large
organization
comes
in
and
says
these
are
the
five
things
you
need
to
do
or
you
can't
do
agile
unless
you
co-locate
or
yeah,
I
mean
just
these
like
ridiculous,
not
ridiculous,
they're,
they're,
they're,
based
on
industry
doctrine,
but
the
reason
personal
was
not
you're,
not
asking
or
including
the
people
who
are
going
to
be
affected
by
the
change
in
the
change
and
last
is
the
notion
of
mental
models
and
I'll
go
through
each
one
of
these
really
quickly.
Right,
which
is
you
know,
everybody
has
these
different
mental
models.
B
You
know
think
about.
You
know
like
in
criminology
right
the
the
famous
stories
of
you
know
three
witnesses
to
a
crime
and
when
they
go
to
get
the
you
know
what
they
look
like
one
said
they
had
red
hair,
the
other
one
said
they
were
blonde
hair.
You
know
so
so
in
getting
looking
at
these
three
right,
I
was
this
is
something
I've
always
said.
You
know,
in
fact
I
came
to
this
conclusion
when
I
started
decoupling.
My
practice,
you
know
the
idea
that
I
was
going
to
do
all
these
frameworks.
B
B
Second,
is
I
I
I
I
I
did
an
interview
with
christina
maslock,
who
is
the
the
foremost
organizational
burnout
expert
in
in
the
industry?
She's
written
books,
they've
named
a
canonical
test,
it's
got
her
name
in
it,
the
mbi
maslock
burnout
inventory,
and
so
I
just
she
made
a
comment
in
the
podcast,
so
I
took
that
as
a
quote,
but
it's
it's
whenever
we're
talking
about
any
kind
of
change
or
improvement
and
you're
counting
on
a
bunch
of
human
beings
to
make
the
change
to
make
this
happen.
B
If
they
haven't
been
part
of
figuring
out
how
to
do
it,
the
change
efforts
will
be
down.
So
you
have
to
at
some
point
include
the
input
of
the
people
who
are
going
to
be
affected
by
the
change,
but
we
don't
do
that.
A
lot
in
our
industry
and
third,
is
this
notion
of
mental
models.
We
go
back
to
peter
sengei,
the
fifth
discipline
pretty
much
the
the
father
of
system
thinking
you
know.
Mental
models
are
deeply
held.
B
Internal
images
of
how
the
world
works,
images
that
that
limit
us
to
familiar
ways
of
thinking
and
acting
very
often,
we
are
not
consciously
aware
of
our
mental
models,
and
you
know
in
in
no
sorry
I
just
and
affect
the
way
we
think
so.
The
the
the
net
net
is
that
these
mental
models
actually
get
in
our
way
when
we're
trying
to
transform
because
different
people,
I
did
an
exercise
once
where
I
was
talking
organization.
B
It
was
a
group
of
people,
and
I
asked
three
people
that
worked
on
the
same
service
worked
together
to
go
into
three
different
rooms
and
whiteboard
their
service.
You
know
how
it
looked,
and
you
wouldn't
be
surprised
that
they
were
all
different.
I
mean
they
all
had
the
same
general
idea
right.
So
this
idea
that
people,
you
know
mental
models,
sort
of
have
the
my
concept
of
something
even
words:
taxonomy
in
an
organization.
B
So
so
then
I
talked
about
qualitative
data
now,
so
I
think
it's
important
to
quickly
mention
the
difference
between
the
quantitative
approach,
which
has
been
taken
in
sort
of
devops
and
transformation
and
a
qualitative
approach
that
I
am
I'm
sort
of
suggesting
or
I've
been
using
and
I
think
it
works
really
well.
So,
in
a
quantitative
you,
you
start
with
a
generalized
theory
and
you
use
correlation
towards
specific
conclusions.
It's
it's
inductive
deductive.
If
you
will
right
so
it's
your
specific
conclusions
from
general
principles
or
premises.
B
It's
typically
numeric
right
statistics
and
it
usually
is
either
in
our
industry.
It's
been
surveyed,
so
we'll
talk
about
some
of
the
surveys.
It's
impersonal,
like
a
survey,
is
impersonal.
You
don't
like
when
you're
taking
the
survey,
you
don't
get
to
ask.
Well
what
does
that
mean
or
what?
If
the
answer
depends
right
and
and
it's
close-ended
right
so
there's
sort
of
there
always
is
one
answer:
it's
either
strongly
disagree
or
strongly
agree
and
somewhere
in
between
or
it's
a
multiple
choice.
You
know
I
deploy
between
six
months
and
a
year.
B
B
There's
this
number
of
patterns
that
are
addressed,
and
I
don't
want
to
just
limit
it,
but
in
in
general,
the
industry
has
accepted
the
fact
that
there
are
basically
four
variables
that
we
look
at
and
we
sort
of
describe
organizational
performance
based
on
these.
So
the
idea
is
that
the
authors
of
these
surveys
and
there's
multiple
ones,
but
you
know
the
most
prominent
one
is-
is
nicole,
horsham
and
well
and
and
gene
kim
sorry.
B
You
have
a
lower
change,
fail
rate
and
you
have
a
quicker
time
to
restore
that
that
you're
more
likely
a
high
performance
organization
and
vice
versa,
for
a
lower
organization
right
and
so
for
six
years.
I
think,
seven
years
now
the
the
idea
is
to
collect
a
lot
of
data
through
surveys
and
sort
of
prove
that
theory
out
or
inductive
that
that
you
know
that
you
know
and
then
you'll
see
things
like
you
know.
B
High
foreign
organizations
are
100
times
faster
in
lead
time
than
low
performing
organizations
right
and
so
like,
for
example,
how
often
do
you
deploy
more
than
six
months?
You
know
between
month,
mountain
or
and
so
again
I'll
do
the
pros
and
cons
here
in
a
minute.
But
the
point
is:
if
I
have
more
than
one
answer
off,
if
I
don't
know
what
you
meant
by
on
demand,
I
can't
ask
you
right.
B
So
you
know
in
you
know,
and
I
don't
know
I
don't
know
the
context
of
your
specifics.
Are
you
like
a
one
person?
Are
you?
Are
you
a
digital
sort
of
side
project
in
a
large
you
know
80
000
company,
that
you're
the
only
person
that
maintains
it
and-
and
you
know,
and
it's
your
thing
and
you
deploy
all
the
time-
is
that
representative
of
that
organization?
B
Right,
you
know
large
bank,
and
so
the
pros
of
a
of
a
quantitative
approach
is
it's
definitely
easy
to
minister
right,
it's
I
can
administer
thousands.
I
mean
it's
harder
to
administrate
in
a
company.
I've
tried
that
and
in
fact
it's
why
I
went
to
a
qualitative
approach.
I
found
that
a
quantitative
approach
on
inside
an
organization
was
a
very
difficult
I'll,
save
that
for
another
presentation,
but
you
get
more
data.
You
know
again.
B
The
industry
surveys
have
been
very
effective
for
us
in
our
industry
right
finding
out
general
theories
of
things
like
you
know
how
high
performers
work
versus
low
performance.
It's
help
us
sort
of
gauge
initial
ways
to
create
outcomes
as
more
data.
It
is
objective
and
it
is
based
on
a
scientific
method.
The
cons,
like
I
said,
is
impersonal.
B
B
I
would
say
it's
theoretical
as
opposed
to
empirical,
which
I,
which
I'll
explain
when
I
get
to
paul
tave
and,
like
I
said
earlier,
it
is
content
specific
now,
qualitative
right
is
it
moves
away
from
theory
driving
the
data
to
an
approach
where
the
data
drives
the
theory
right.
So
it's
abductive
right.
It's
you
know.
James
says
that
they
created
it's
like
it's
like
a
murder
mystery,
so
it's
sort
of
the
qualitative
is
what
what
jay
would
say
is
inductive
deductive.
B
I
think
I
got
it
right,
which
is
you're
really
going
to
come
out
with
an
answer
where
is
abductive
is
abductive
inductive
or
inductive.
Abductor
sorry
is,
is
basically
more
like
a
murder
mystery
right,
I've
kind
of
sifted
through
a
lot
of
different
ways
of
you
telling
me
stuff
and
and
again
I
think
that
to
me,
that's
the
power,
because
these
the
complexity
of
these
organizations
are
just
they're
just
too
complex
to
create
one
single
answer
from
you
know
or
50
answers
to
50
questions.
B
They're
categorial
like
so
here
again.
What
we're
trying
to
do
is
decouple
the
mental
models
right.
So
what
we're
saying
is
like
if
I,
if
I
can
look
at
the
answers
to
interview,
questions
from
multiple
people
right,
I
might
have
you
know,
do
an
abductive
process
be
able
to
get
a
better
understanding
of
what
this
really
means,
and
I
can
roll
things
up
and
I'll
show
you
examples
here.
It's
interpersonal
again.
I
can
go
back
and
forth.
I
can
you
can
ask
me
what
the
heck
do
you
mean
by
that?
B
B
One
person
might
say:
you're
terrible,
you
know
they're
horrible,
another
person
might
say
you
know
they
waste
about
30
times
a
year,
and
then
this
is
the
one
I
love
the
best
right,
which
is
we
don't
tell
orders
things
down
or
no,
because
so
it
allows
me
to
to
well
here
is
the
sort
of
pros
and
cons.
Is
you
know
it's
empirical?
It's
it's
it's
it's
it's
I
can.
You
can
use
multiple
observations
to
to
drive
through
the
the
process
of
understanding.
What
they're
saying
I
can
link
things
together.
B
You
know,
so
you
know
it's
verifiable
observations.
It's
open-ended,
I
would
say
it's
combinatorial
right,
so
going
back
to
mental
models
right
I
I
can
you
know
I
can
use
the
objective
example
of
trying
to
figure
out
like
hey.
You
know
this
person
said
this
and
even
more
importantly,
like,
for
example,
an
overloaded
tone
term.
Sorry
something
like
compliance.
B
I
you
know,
I
find
that
a
lot
of
organizations
and
different
organizations
have
different
meanings
for
things
like
governance,
risk
and
compliance,
individual
meanings
and
then
even
in
the
organization
itself,
they
might
have
their
name.
One
group
might
call
everything
risk
another
might
call
everything
compliance.
B
So,
if
I'm
having
these
conversations
or
these
interview
processes,
I
can
actually
take
notes
and
figure
out
what
I
thought
you
meant
for
compliance,
what
it
really
means
in
an
industry
perspective
versus
person,
three,
four,
five
and
six,
and
then
through
the
the
rigor
of
the
qualitative
approach
which
I'll
talk
about
in
a
minute
I
can
actually
create.
You
know
I
I
can
come
up
with
a
theory
that
I
believe
company
x.
You
know.
One
word
for
this
type
of
thing
is
risk,
and
here
is
how
it's
addressed
right,
obviously
harder
administrator.
B
Less
data
and
it
is
subjective,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day,
like
all
of
these
process,
processes
are
sort
of
inductive
in
the
sense
that
you're
you're,
you
know,
there's
some
subjectivity
like
to
the
you
know
again,
there's
more
rigor
in
crunching
numbers
and
doing
statistical
analysis
and
clustering
and
all
the
things.
But
at
the
end
of
the
day,
there's
the
sort
of
con
of
the
sort
of
it
isn't
verifiable
observations.
B
So
here's
an
example
really,
quick
of
of
so
I
I'm
going
to
show
you
a
tool
that
I
fell
in
love
with.
It's
called
max,
qda
max
qualitative
data
analysis,
there's
a
category
of
tools
called
computer,
assisted,
qualitative
data
analysis,
and
just
if
you
look
really
quick,
you
load
in
all
the
interviews
and
and
the
what
you'll
call
it.
And
then
you
you,
basically
start
tagging
different.
What
they
call
coding
different
areas.
So
the
approach
I've
been
using
here
is
called
grounded
theory.
B
It
is
multiple
theory
again,
I'm
not
going
to
sort
of
profess
dying
like
you
know,
sort
of
a
phd
on
qualitative
analysis.
I've
I've
read,
read
a
lot
about
it,
and
I've
fortunately
have
jabe
to
help
me
understand
this,
but
this
is
the
approach
I
use
and
so
this
approach,
the
implementation
approach,
is
really
using
the
qualitative
data.
B
The
interviews
so
basically
take
all
all
the
interviews
that
I
do
you
know,
take
the
transcripts
and
then
notes,
and
then
I
load
them
in
as
artifacts,
including
lots
of
other
stuffs,
like
letters
and
sort
of
notes
from
from
emails
that
people
sent
about
the
process,
and
then
you
do
this.
This
thing
called
coding
where
you
basically
go
ahead
and
you
use
you
sort
of
highlight,
like
you
saw
on
that
last
screen,
and
then
you
assign
a
sort
of
a
a
temper.
B
In
my
case
it
would
call
a
temporary
def
definition
to
it,
and
then
you
roll
through
what
are
called
concepts
categories
which
then
you
get
to
sort
of
out
so
think
about
the
industry
doctrine
is
how
I
sort
of
start,
and
it's
my
sort
of
industry,
roadmap
or
recommendations
is
how
I
ground
it.
So
what
I'm
doing
is,
I
sort
of
know,
the
things
that
are
generally
wrong
with
the
company,
and
I
know
the
things
that
generally
should
be
done
to
fix
a
company.
B
B
Concepts
are
groupings
of
simpler
codes
categories,
so
there's
this
roll-up
process.
So
the
interesting
thing
is
when
I
sit
down
with
a
cio-
and
they
ask
me
you
know
well
john,
I
don't
know
if
I
agree
with
this,
you
know
I
can
say:
well
you
know.
Okay,
we
can
walk
back
through
the
category
the
concept
and
we
can
actually
find
the
paragraph
of
the
sentence
of
what
was
said
about
this.
Now
I
always
delete
names
and
I
always
sort
of
do
the
aggregate.
B
But
like
it's
a
beautiful
process,
when
you
get
disagreement,
cio,
like
you
know,
I
wanted
my
famous.
Is
your
audits
or
theater?
Like
your
audits,
are
terrible?
They
don't
really
connect
the
dots
and
oh,
no
john,
I'm
not
going
to
accept
that
and
like
okay,
you
know,
let
me
show
you
like
10
examples
of
why
I
came
up
with
this,
and
this
is
get
back
to
the
data
like
it's
not
xyz,
corp.
Coming
in
and
saying
like
we're
smart
and
you
do
these
five
things
and
you'll
be
successful.
B
It's
like
I
have
an
idea
of
what's
wrong
with
you.
Let
me
listen
to
all
your.
Let
me
follow
the
data
which
is
basically
interviewing
a
bunch
of
people
and
then
I'll
tie
that
to
sort
of
industry
doctrine
solutions
you
know
so
here's
an
example
of
a
grounded
theory.
You
know
you
saw
this
earlier,
but
now
I've
got
it
attached
to
the
sort
of
methodology
right.
The
code
might
be
the
sentence
that
somebody
said
in
answer
to
a
question.
B
So
I
could
walk
in
and
say
you
should
do
automated
governance
right
like
and
I'm
probably
going
to
be
right,
nine
out
of
ten
times
or
maybe
eight
out
of
ten
times.
But
now
I
have
absolute
like
confirmation
and
to
go
back
to
the
the
other
thing
too.
Is
that
going
back
to
the
sort
of
the
impersonal
right
like
now,
people
feel
like
they
were.
B
So
if
the
organization
comes
in
and
says
we're
doing
automated
governance
because
we
listened
to
you
and
we
heard
that
audits
are
terrible,
you
know
and
they're
really
hard
and
they
waste
a
lot
of
time.
Everybody
involved
is
like
yeah.
No,
that
was
our
input.
Awesome
right
as
opposed
to
a
big
four
coming
in
and
say
you
must
do
automated
governance
and
then
all
of
a
sudden,
they're
doing
all
this
stuff,
and
it's
like
yeah.
B
B
You
know-
and
some
of
you
see
my
presentation-
seven
deadly
sins
of
devops.
Basically,
I
consider
it
a
funnel
that
typically
drives
the
worst
and
deadliest
cinema,
basically
security
and
compliance
there
again.
I
have
longer
presentations
on
this
thing.
So
so
the
approach,
then,
is
that
I've
been
taking
engagement.
Is
we
have
some
original
conversations?
I
do
the
assessment
analyze
report
and
then
really
help
try
to
figure
out
how
to
do
the
transformation
so
meetings,
you
know
pre-covered,
you
know
I'm
doing
them
all
virtual,
but
pre-covered.
B
B
I
again
I
could
calculate
the
amount
of
minutes
of
of
transcriptions
and
probably
well
north
of
50
documents
right,
but
now
virtually
I've
been
doing
this
with
organizations
where
we'll
do
like
90
minute
meetings
with
the
team,
so
maybe
10
meetings
overall
over
a
three
week
period,
whatever
right,
so
it
all
depends.
But
again
the
virtual
is
is
I
I
didn't
think
it
was
going
to
work
virtual.
It
has
actually
worked
really
well.
B
B
I
really
want
you
to
like
this
idea
like
I
want
you
to
go
in
the
room
with
this
guy,
this
bachelor
guy,
and
I
really,
if
all
possible,
don't
bring
your
laptop
right
like
unless
the
place
is
on
fire
or
whatever,
but
I
really
don't
want
you
sort
of
in
and
out
like
for.
You
know
for
a
couple
of
weeks
or
a
week
or
90
minutes
virtual.
B
B
You
know,
15
people
should
definitely
go
and
then
let's
open
it
up
in
a
letter
to
say,
hey
we're
going
to
do
this
who'd
like
to
go,
and
then
people
have
to
write
sort
of
a
response
to
an
engagement
and
then
I
get
to
use
that
to
identify
you
beforehand.
It
really
works
well
and
then
usually,
there's
electronic
notes,
audio
transcripts,
some
cases
it
always
works
better.
When
I
can
sort
of
record
and
throw
away,
I
don't
really
use
the
audio.
B
The
analysis
you
saw
the
sort
of
process
again
like
this
is
an
example
one
that
it
was
about
80
people.
It
was
like
20
documents,
so
you
can
see.
I
have
all
the
interview
notes.
I
have.
I
usually
have
two
scribers
have
myself
taking
specific
notes,
and
then
I
have
somebody
else:
who's
actually
a
scriber,
and
so
I've
got
you
know.
I've
got
the
transcript.
B
I've
got
the
scriber
and
then
I've
got
my
sort
of
additional
notes
and
this
tool
and
I'm
I
I'm
going
to
come
back,
maybe
in
at
another
time
and
just
do
a
whole
presentation
on
how
to
I've
got
this
thing.
I've
been
doing
with
doing
a
postmortem
on
the
equifax
breach
using
this
tool.
I'm
going
to
write
it
up.
It's
it's
really
cool.
I
mean
like
like
the
power
of
this
tool,
so
you
know
it.
Just
has
just
everything
you
need
to
know:
I'm
just
going
to
give
you
a
little
sense.
B
B
So
this
all
helps
me
to
sort
of
build
that
taxonomy
discussion
right,
but
then,
like
I
said
earlier,
there's
this
you
know
kind
of
coding
exercise
where
you
go
in
and
you
read
through
you've
already
done
the
interviews,
so
your
search
context,
sense
of
your
head
and
then
you
basically
start
identifying
these
codes
with
particular.
Maybe
risk
design
different
different
areas
and
the
idea
is
even
though
I
start
off
with
these
seven
patterns,
the
seven
deadly
sins.
I
really
don't
know
what
is
going
to
emerge
from
the
data.
B
So
I'm
not
I'm
not
stuck
with
those.
I
really
literally
try
to
free
and
it's
hard,
but
I
try
to
free
my
head
to
say
you
know,
I'm
not
going
to
try
to
assume
any
solutions,
I'm
not
going
to
try
to
assume
that
they
have
consistency
and
even
in
the
first
couple
of
rounds,
I
really
try
not
to
to
do
a
whole
lot
of
categorization
and
then
you
know,
and
then
the
tool
becomes
incredibly
powerful
in
terms
of
the
coding.
Here's
an
example
where
you
know
sort
of
risk,
design,
consistency.
B
These
are
the
ones
that
just
showed
up
old,
so
you
can
see
that
consistency
and
design
came
up
like
most
frequently
on
the
right
and
and
here's
another
sort
of
example,
of
sort
of
a
population
of
the
codes
and
and
then
there's
all
sorts
of
tools
here.
That
can
be
very
powerful.
I'm
still
learning
a
lot
about
the
tool,
but
there's
these
ways
to
do
these
sort
of
casing
models,
incredible
graphics.
B
B
I've
learned
you
know,
like
I
said
the
more
I
do,
the
smart
learn.
I
used
to
wait
and
get
all
the
data
and
load
it
in
that
was
kind
of
stupid.
Now
I
do
it
after
each
interview
and
I
do
a
postmortem
with
describe
so
I
can
actually
start
with
this
quick.
You
know,
hey
wait,
a
minute.
Wasn't
there
a
story
around
you
know,
sort
of
you
know
just
pick
something
you
know.
Projects
were
really
bad
and
project
management
was
bad
there
and
then
we
go
oh
yeah.
I
forgot.
B
I
didn't
capture
that
right.
This
is
just
another
way
to
look
at
the
data
and
then
just
you
know
like
like
there's
only
a
certain
extent
that
the
graphics
really
help,
but
it
does
help
in
presentation.
Mode
like
here
is
sort
of
drilling
in
on
risk
and
then
here
again
sort
of
reducing
codes.
There's
a
lot
of
they
called.
I
retrieve
segments.
B
So
now
I
can
sort
of
say
I
don't
see
anything
other
than
risk
and
then
so
in
that
bottom
section
I
can
go
through
all
documents,
everything
you
know
the
20
documents,
the
100
000
sort
of
a
novel.
Basically,
if
you
will,
I
mean
I'm
crazy,
I
you
know
we're
doing
a
review
for
this
five
year
anniversary,
devops
handbook,
I'm
gonna
actually
load
the
device
handbook
in
here,
and
I'm
going
to
do
my
review
in
here,
because
you
you
can
attach
notes.
I
mean
it's
just
really
cool
just
quickly.
B
B
I
know
that,
like
visibility
and
consistency
and
capacity
and
toriel
typically
issues,
I
know
that
there
are
certain
other
things
that
I
know
there's
a
set
of
patterns
that
I
think
you
should
apply
and
I'll
show
you
that
my
sort
of
list
that
I
usually
but
what
I
need
to
do
is
I
need
the
ground
to
that
right
and
and
then
along
the
way
I
get
to
sort
of
look
at
like.
Are
there
these
demonic?
Are
these
things
that
pop
up?
B
B
You
know
that
your
lead
time,
you
know
again
it's
it's
difficult
for
me
being
involved
in
sort
of
the
devops
movement
since
the
its
inception
and
working
to
a
large
bank
today
and
talk
about
getting
a
vm
in
four
weeks
or
you
know
getting
storage
in
three
weeks,
and
I
mean
I've
heard
recently.
I've
heard
this
like
it
takes
two
minutes
to
spin
up
in
amazon
instance.
B
I
have
dependency,
you
know,
that's
dark
what
I
call
dark
dependencies
like
where
you
you
have
all
these
dependencies
you're
coupled
with
all
these
dependencies
other
services
and
you,
but
you
don't
like
know
anything
about
their
status
right
and
so
the
this,
this
notion
of
sort
of
a
dark
dependency
or
dark
workflow,
and
so
somebody
said
to
me,
like
I
don't
know
for
certain
dependencies
that
are
critical
path
for
me.
I
don't
know
if
it's
going
to
take
two
days
or
two
weeks
so
scale.
That's
just
like
how
do
you?
B
So
you
know
what
out
of
all
these,
the
sort
of
consistency
was
the
number
one
thing
we
heard,
but
here's
I
can
drill
down
on
all
these
sort
of
evidence
if
you
will
on
funding
and
toil
and
then
sort
of
look
at
these
as
like.
How
do
we
sort
of
address
these,
and
so,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
these
are
all
the
concepts
you
know
based
on
the
sort
of
the
elements
of
the
category.
B
B
I
mean
jess
wrote
lead
enterprise,
it's
an
excellent
book,
just
humble,
but
the
the
thing
is
that
I
saw
this
in
place
that
I'll
just
say
it
was
years
ago,
but
ge
I
saw
beth
comstock,
who
was
the
cmo
chief
marketing
officer
in
eric
reese
fireside
chat
at
one
of
his
conferences
and
when
she
was
talking
about,
we
have
gone
head
to
toe
on
lean
startup.
You
know,
we
think,
in
terms
of
pivots,
build
measure,
learn
all
the
things
are
out
of
that
yeah.
B
It's
a
great
book
getting
ready
and
then
and
then
I
actually
about
a
month
later.
I
was
doing
a
cloud
implementation
for
what
I
would
say
were
the
grunts,
like
the
people
of
the
edge
who
had
to
implement
an
on.
You
know
on-prem
private
cloud
right
and
one
of
my
startups
right
and
like
they
were
using
the
same
exact
term.
You
know
fluently
that
beth
comstack
was
using
the
cmo.
B
They
were
talking
about
pivot
and
I
realized
that
organization
had
reasonably
successfully
created
a
common
taxonomy
around
lean
enterprise,
which
again
the
the
the
butterfly
effect
of
toil
of
mis
taxonomy,
like
somebody
should
do
a
study
on
it.
Also
common
models
I
won't
go.
I
don't
have
too
much
time
to
go
too
deep
in
this.
I
think
team
topologies
is
just
an
amazing
book.
B
You
know
we're
if
you
haven't
you've
if
you've
been
following
this,
what
we're
doing
so,
jabe
and
and
commenting
and
three
economies
and
how
we
think
about
platforms
and
platforms,
interface,
outcome-based,
metrics,
automation,
skills,
liquidity
like
this
is
a
real.
It's
one
thing
to
think
about
skills
updates
right.
But
how
do
I
build?
You
know
this
sort
of
the
you
know.
B
Now
I
start
grounding
the
opportunities
you
know
so
teen
topologies,
maybe
maybe
sre,
is
right
for
you
right
a
lot
of
times.
People
are.
I
can
do
a
whole
presentation
on
the
toil
of
discussing
and
thinking
about,
sre
in
the
enterprise
right.
So
some
questions
are
like
just
stop
talking
about
sre
in
2020,
and
you
will
save
a
ton
of
time
team
topologies,
there's
some
workbooks
we'll
make
this
available.
B
You've
probably
seen
again,
diane
could
probably
point
a
list
of
like
andrew's
five
elements
that
we've
been
talking
about
in
a
gto
group.
So
five
elements
understand
the
difference
between
value
stream,
analysis
and
value
chain.
Now,
so
again,
I
don't
start
with
these
tools,
but
once
we
understand
how
to
fit
them
in
a
roadmap
that
actually
makes
sense,
then
actually
these
tools
become
incredibly
effective
and,
and
just
quite
frankly,
that
this
value
stream
mapping
is
typically
around
your
sort
of
lean
value
stream.
B
Mapping
that
chain
mapping
is
sort
of
things
like
worldly
mapping,
if
you're
not
familiar
with
that
right
and
then
again
a
skills,
liquidity,
open
practice.
There's
some
great
books.
I
t
revolution,
I
mentioned
the
couple
that
I
worked
on
over
the
years
is,
I
think,
gene
said
they
produced
like
50
or
so
I
I
counted
like
30
or
something.
But
who
knows
I
t
revolution,
these
are
all
creative
commons,
so
you
can
just
go
to
I.t
revolution
forum
papers.
There's
a
value
stream
architect,
there's
a
transformational
leader
quickly.
B
These
are
great
guides
and
again
the
open
practice
library
platform
transformation.
You
know
so
here's
an
interesting
thing
too.
I
think
what's
important
when
we
talk
about
platform.
So
there's
a
lot
of
discussion
about
project
the
product
like
mick
kirsten,
has
an
excellent
book
product
I'll
show
you
the
reference
right-
and
you
know-
and
yes
yeah
of
course
like
we
need
to
move
from
to
product,
but
then
I'm
like
okay,
that's
great,
but
not
good
enough.
What
about
product
to
service?
What
about
service
to
platform?
B
And
then,
where
does
sort
of
the
cab
and
change
management?
So
I
think,
there's
a
there's
sort
of
an
evolution
of
you
know:
project
to
product
product,
to
service
platform,
as
interfaces
I
discussed
earlier
infrastructure
scale
and
then
sort
of
operations.
So
how
do
you
sort
of
look
at
these
things
again?
Normally,
when
I'm
reviewing
this
customer
we're
doing
a
lot,
you
know
a
lot
more
sort
of
education,
a
lot
of
cases.
B
In
other
words,
if
you're
spending
a
ridiculous
amount
of
percentage
of
your
time
like
I've,
had
examples
where
it
takes
me,
two
weeks,
john,
to
code,
this
application.
It
takes
me
another
eight
weeks
to
go
through
all
the
sort
of
spreadsheets
and
forms,
and
all
these
things
all
related
to
you
know
serviceability
reliability
or
service
management
and
by
the
way,
none
of
that
actually
made
the
service
more.
B
You
know
more
reliant
and
then
even
worse
or
an
audit
is
just
you
know,
even
though
you
passed
the
audit,
it's
completely
disconnected
to
how
that
works,
and
then
so
there's
a
number
of
books
here
that
from
the
I.t
revolution,
press
dominic,
the
agranas,
if
you
haven't
read
making
work
visible,
it's
an
incredibly
good
book
again,
it's
one
of
those
books
I
say
is
like.
I
always
want
to
be
clear.
This
is
an
amazing
book,
but
I
think
you
need
to
do
the
qualitative
data
analysis.
First,
you
know
it's
worth.
B
You
guys
are
five
thiefs
of
time.
It's
brilliant
mckerson's
product,
the
product
project,
the
product.
Again,
the
open
practice
library
will
make
this
available
metrics.
We
talked
about
the
the
magic
four
now
I
will
say
this
again.
You
know.
I
think
that
the
work
done
by
dora
and
all
has
been
incredible
for
our
industry.
B
It's
led
us
down.
The
first,
you
know
you
know
the
they
use
this
nicole,
used
to
say
we're
sciencing,
the
sh,
whatever
out
of
devops,
which
is
brilliant
right
and-
and
I
think,
if
you
don't
are
not
doing
any
outcome-based
stuff,
you
should
at
least
be
doing
these
magic
for
the
the
common
metrics,
but
they
are
lagging
indicators.
B
Time
was
relatively
short
under
an
hour
and
then
all
of
a
sudden
I
got
one.
That's
like
eight
hours
or
on
tuesday
monday,
through
whatever
right.
You
said
you
get
the
point
on
tuesday,
everything
out
which
is
like
six
hours,
but
you
know
every
other
day.
It's
like
you
know.
48
minutes,
I
don't
know.
What's
going
on
there
like
with
flowmetrix?
Look
it
up.
B
It
allows
me
to
look
at
the
wait
time
in
between,
and
so
I'm
analyzing
so
outcome,
there's
a
great
a
bunch
of
great
publications,
again
I.t
revolution
access,
library
from
red
hat
automation.
Of
course
you
would
imagine
we
were
pretty
high
on
unanswerable,
but
then
we
have
something
trusted
solar
supply
chain.
The
device,
automated
governance
is
a
book.
I
worked
on.
I've
been
very
heavily
involved
in
this.
I've
done
a
lot
of
presentations.
If
you're
interested
look
it
up,
it's
pretty
cool
stuff,
I'll,
just
say
real
quickly.
B
It's
a
model
for
shortening
order,
time
to
either.
You
know
from
30
days
to
maybe
a
half
a
day,
maybe
zero
day
increases
efficacy
from
maybe
25.
In
other
words,
it's
not
it's
secure,
moving
from
security
appliance
theater
to
actually
90
efficacy
and
and
creates
a
real
sort
of
road
map
to
be
able
to
produce
centralized
cab
authority,
some
great
books
that
were
precursors
to
dallas
automated
governance
that
we
worked
on
dear.
B
Right
again,
these
are
good
recommendations,
except
that,
if
I
learn
that
there's
certain
things
about
your
organization
where
I'm
like
you
know
what
you
don't
want
to
do,
internal
debt
updates
right
now
like
maybe
that's
something
you
need
to
sort
of
fix
this
fix
this
first.
So
that's!
The
other
thing.
Is
transformation?
Isn't
linear
right,
like
there's
multiple
service
and
orgs
within
you
know,
teams
and
team
of
teams
and
and
orgs-
and
you
know
like
and
and
then
some
are
going
to
be,
one
cadence.
Some
are
going
to
be
another
cadence.
B
So
so
again,
I
I
do
think
that's
where
a
qualitative
approach
helps
you
a
lot
skills
liquidity,
there's
a
bunch
of
really
good
tools
out
there
for
this.
You
know
lean
coffees.
If
you
haven't,
I
love
lean
coffees
in
the
enterprise.
It's
it's
such
a
cheap
way
to
create
collaboration
and
and
create
sort
of
horizontal.
You
know
move
sort
of
tribal
knowledge
to
horizontal,
which
is
you
know,
just
set
them
up
on
wednesdays
in
the
afternoon.
B
And
you
know
people
come
it's
just
it's
it's
a
it's
a
really
easy
way
to
get
people
sort
of
communicating
in
different
groups
or
learning
about
other
projects.
Lunch
shows
and
tells
good
ideas
demo
days.
You
know.
I
think
this
works
really
good.
It's
you
know
everybody
wins
here.
You
know
people
get
to
see
most
organizations
that
start
out
with
demo
days
when
they're
successful.
B
I
know
one
bank,
where,
like
every
week
now,
instead
of
just
having
rigid
board
meetings
with
the
executives,
half
of
the
time
is
actually
demo
day.
So
now
the
board
looks
forward
to
weekly
demo
days
about
like
how
they've
improved
how
they
sort
of
devops
payments.
Or
you
know
you
know
so
guest
lectures.
You
know
just
keep
your
eye
on
it.
You
know
we
like
to
speak
vendors
love
to
send
their
people
to
speak.
B
You
know
if,
if
you're
in
chicago,
you
know
you're
based
in
chicago,
you
know,
look
on
the
agenda
stuff
and
see.
Oh
looks.
Look
adrian
crockhoffer
is
what
is
is
speaking
on
tuesday.
I
bet
she
should
be.
If
I
got
him
early
enough,
he
might
stick
around
for
a
day
and
come
in
look.
I
love
doing
that
stuff
right,
so
inner
source
right,
devops
dojo,
the
dojo.
Like
again
we
go
on
about
dojo.
B
I
talked
about
the
recommendations.
There's
some
books,
there's
a
great
book
came
out
last
year
about
getting
started
with
dojo's
continuous
learning,
yeah
it's
safe
to
fail
right.
These
are
things
like
incident
analysis.
If
you
haven't
followed
john
osbar
and
the
work
he's
doing
adaptive
capacity,
labs,
brilliant
stuff,
understanding,
psychological
safety,
resilience,
engineers,
continuous
verification,
there's
a
couple
of
vendors
now
that
are
sort
of
moving
chaos,
engineering
into
convenience,
verification,
particularly
with
kafka,
which
is
really
interesting.
Do
I
know
more
about
that
penguin?
B
You
know
flattening
incident
management
continues,
verification,
here's
an
example.
You
know
sort
of
it's
really
taking
chaos
engineering
to
a
higher
level,
because
anyway,
so
so,
there's
actually
a
new
book
out
by
casey,
rosenthal
and
norah
jones.
But
casey
was
involved
in
the
netflix
engineering
of
the
chaos,
engineering
and
again,
some
of
the
stuff.
We
have
on
the
open
practice,
library
and.
A
B
Really
important,
how
much
you
you
lose?
If
you
don't
just
simply
try
to
sit
down,
I
mean
the
best
experiment
I
ever
saw
was
what
what
gu
did
right,
where
they
literally
had
everybody.
You
know
whether
you
liked
lean
startup
model
or
not.
It
was
like
everybody
was
communicating
with
like
acronyms
and
terms,
and
everybody
knew
exactly
what
it
meant
so
from
the
cmo
down
to
the
sort
of
lowest
level
engineer
that
was,
like
literally
configuring
configuration
files,
for
you
know
for
one
of
the
private
clouds,
like
they
were
speaking
exactly
the
same
language.
A
B
Well
and
then
but
well,
but
but
to
so
to
be
clear
and
the
reason
why
I
favor
qualitative
analysis
is
to
unravel,
like
I
you
know,
if
I
talk
to
100
people,
and
I
realize
that
there
are
certain
teams
like
the
database
team-
is
calling
using
a
term.
This
is
common
everywhere,
like
using
a
term.
You
know.
Even
I've
had
this
even
with
little
red
hat
products,
where
some
people
would
call
it.
You
know
the
self-service
platform.
Some
people
call
it
openshift.
B
Some
people
call
it
kubernetes
right
and,
depending
how
far
the
drift
was,
you
might
not
have
been
having
the
same
conversation.
So
just
getting
everybody
honestly
remember
when
we
did
that
this
was
public.
We
did
that
the
commons
in
in
london
right
and
it
was
the
deutsche
bank
presentation
where
they
gave
their
own
name.
B
They
came
up
with
their
own
name
for
for
our
product
right,
and
I
thought
that
was
brilliant
right,
because
now
you
they've
sort
of
put
their
own
little
sort
of
marketing
internal
marketing
spin
on
it.
And
now
you
know
it
was
one
word
yeah,
so
you
did
not
scrap
for
like
what
are
the
five
or
six
terms
that
even
red
hat
uses
for
kubernetes.
B
Totally
right,
you
have
that
and
to
be
perfectly
honest
with
you,
although
not
you
know
not
in
our
best
interest
as
a
vendor,
but
you
know
to
to
the
point
I
made
to
them:
is
it
gives
an
ability
to
uncouple
themselves
with
a
vendor?
Oh
yeah,
you
know
so
that's
a
positive
for
the
consumer
in
that
like
if
they
do
need
to
shift
to
another
product,
it's
much
easier.
A
C
Yeah,
I
I
struggle
with
these
conversations
with
my
with
my
customers,
I'm
a
I'm
a
foolish
architect
in
the
energy
pod
down
here
in
houston,
and
I
several
of
my
different.
You
know
several
clients
that
I
have
several
customers
that
I
have
are
in
heavy
regulated.
You
know,
environments
right
there,
their
utilities,
their
their
isos,
they're,
running,
they're,
running
data
grids
and
things
like
that,
and
they
have
that
highly
regulated
environment,
mentality
of
adopting
change
right
and
a
lot
of
the
times.
C
You
know
documented
processes
into
this
new
platform
and
they're
literally
they're,
getting
some
benefits
out
of
it.
But
it's
it's
very
difficult.
It's
it's
very
difficult
to
to
cautiously
tell
them
or
not
and
not
to
create
an
adversarial
relationship,
but
to
basically
jacob
and
be
like
you're
doing
this
wrong.
C
You
know
you're
you're,
it's
great,
that
you
got
this
new
platform,
but
you're
moving
all
of
these
antiquated
old
systems
over
because
you
don't
know
anything
better
or
you
don't
want
to
change,
because
you
have
this
built-in
organizational
knowledge
of
the
products.
You
have
organizational
guarantees
that
if
you
use
these
approved
products,
you
won't
get
in
trouble
type
of
mentality.
There's
a
there's,
a
really
low
trust
environment
there.
C
So
I'm
always
looking
at
ways
to
a
how
you
know
how
to
start
that
conversation
which
doesn't
turn
into
a
you're
doing
it
wrong
conversation,
but
then
how
to
how
to
move
up
the
chain,
because
I
can
talk
to
mid-level
managers.
I
can
even
talk
to
kind
of
director
level,
but
they
don't
have
the
organizational
power
to
be
able
to
affect
change
in
those
ways.
C
C
B
Well,
that's
the
you
know
again,
there's
no
magic
bullet
right,
I
mean,
but
I
do
find
that
all
the
times
I've
spent
over
the
years
you
know
I
mean
it
seems
I've
always
been
on
this
transformation
sort
of
journey
with
clients.
I
think
we
all
have
right,
but
going
almost
five
generations
of
technology,
and-
and
so
I
I
sort
of
like
come
to
the
this-
you
know
conclusion
at
this
point
that
that
you
know
the
the
thing
that
we're
always
missing
is
understanding.
B
Those
sort
of
three
things
up
front,
which
is
there
are
these
mental
models.
You
know
that
we
can't
go
in
too
early
with
prescriptive
solutions,
because
we
miss
a
lot
of
things
and
you
know,
and
then
there's
sort
of
like
the
the
thing
you
find.
You
know
I
I
you
know
I
just
so
many
times
I'll
interview,
an
organization
that
just
spent
two
years
going
through
sort
of
a
big
four
recommended
plan
and
I'll
ask
him.
If
did
anybody
talk
to
you
from
that?
B
You
know
big
four
organization,
no
and
if
they
would
have,
I
would
have
told
them
that
this
wasn't
gonna
work
that
gonna
work.
You
know
so
the
you
know,
people
just
you
know
like
they're,
so
tired
of
just
like
just
sort
of
you
know
that
you
know
they
see
it.
As
you
know,
the
ceo
saw
an
you
know,
sort
of
another
poster
in
the
airport.
B
Here
we
go
again,
you
know,
you
know
they.
Just
these
things
don't
pass
the
spell
test,
and
so,
when
you
sit
down
with
them
and
you
loud
listen,
I
mean
they
will
not
shut
up.
Typically,
I
find
all
I
have
to
do
is
say
to
start
a
meeting
with
you
know
I
used
to
think
I
had
to
do
some
timelining
in
boxes
and
very
specific
I
find
now.
B
B
A
B
Do
me
a
favor
because
people
like
you
feel
you
know
the
thing
is
I
don't
think
a
lot
of
us
sort
of
we
know
this,
but
we
don't
remind
ourselves
all
the
people
we
work
with
our
clients,
most
of
them
wake
up
in
the
morning
wanting
to
do
a
good
job
right.
We
sometimes
we
get
lost
in
the
mile,
like
we
think
everybody's
sort
of
nobody,
there's
bad
actors.
B
Oh
here
we
go
another
bob's
from
office
space
right
and
and
then
you
know
and
then
at
some
point
I
win
their
trust
right
like
because
they
realize
you
know.
I
given
the
speech
that
I'm
you
know
I'm
here
just
to
collect
data,
but
john,
are
you
gonna
fix
anything?
I
don't
know
I'm
gonna.
Basically,
I'm
gonna,
I'm
gonna,
do
some
analysis
and
tell
the
executives
what
you
tell
me.
So
you
know
the
fact
that
they
invested
in
me
doing
this
is
a
good
sign.
B
You
know,
because
the
other
eight
people
I
talked
to
said
they
didn't
want
to
do
this,
but
near
the
end
they
get
to
this.
Like,
oh,
you
know
they
get
excited.
You
see
them
like
wanting.
Let
me
let
me
tell
you
about
this,
let
me
and
it's
not
like
they're
trying
to
like
bash
their
organization.
They're,
like
you
know,
and
then
you
get
and
then
when
they
know
it's
getting
their
hand
when
they
do
any
on-prem
there's
almost
this
like
sadness
like,
like,
oh
he's,
leaving
and
then
like
but
john,
is
it
gonna
fix
anything?
B
B
B
They're
just
gonna,
throw
me
into
that
same
old
category
of
like
nothing
changes
every
time.
I
have
to
talk
to
one
of
these
people.
Nothing
changes
and
like
do
something
like
just
show
them.
You
know
that
even
if
you
think
it's
a
throwaway
idea
just
give
them
a
bone
to
say,
like
you
know
that
you
know
you
are
listening
because
again,
I
think
people
just
get
to
the
wit's
end
of
like
you
know,
there's
things
that
are
wrong
here.
B
I
know
they're
wrong,
I
will
you
know
I'll,
say
well
my
no
running
on
time,
but
sometimes
when
I
get
somebody
on
a
long,
ramp,
I'll
say
hey,
why
do
you
work
here
and
it'll
throw
them
completely?
You
know,
as
you
know,
off
you
know
off
guard
yeah
and
then
normally
the
answer
is
I
like
here.
You
know
to
be
like
a
five
second
delay,
where
they
gotta
think
right
like
and
I'm
like.
I
like
it
here.
I
like
the
people
just
wish.
We
could
fix
these
things
anyway.
C
My
last
question
is
the
the
global
transformation
office
you
and
andrew
and
kevin,
and
is
there
a
is
there
a
set
of
engagement
like
how
do
I
get
y'all's
capabilities
in
front
of
my
customers?
Is
it
a?
Is
it
a
set
of
documentation
to
where
it's
like
here's
all
of
our
capabilities?
Are
you
interested
yeah?
It's
I
I'll.
B
A
This
is
something
that
you
and
I
and
the
the
team
need
to
need
to
get
that
stood
up
along
with
all
the
the
presentations
you
guys
have
been
doing
on
these
transformation
fridays.
So
here's
my
commitment
to
reaching
out
and
pinging
you
guys
again
to
do
that
and
stephen.
Thank
you
for
the
instigation
to
do
that.