►
Description
Not sure if your application is ready to move to containers and Kubernetes? Well, Tackle has you covered. In today's show, we'll sit down with software engineering manager Phil Cattanach and product manager Román Nissen from the Konveyor team. They'll give us a bit of background on the open source Konveyor project, tell us about how Tackle works, and demo it in use. So join us to check out Tackle and see how it can help you migrate applications to Kubernetes.
Learn more about Tackle: https://github.com/konveyor/tackle
Learn more about Konveyor: https://github.com/konveyor
Follow us:
Langdon White https://twitter.com/1angdon
Chris Short https://twitter.com/ChrisShort
Román Nissen https://twitter.com/rromannissen
Phil Cattanach https://uk.linkedin.com/in/phil-catta...
What is the Level Up Hour?
Every Wednesday at 9am ET we stream live demos on how Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) users and admins can benefit their organizations and improve their careers by learning how to use containers, Kubernetes, and Red Hat OpenShift.
Learn more at:
https://red.ht/leveluphour
http://red.ht/3ayHlHI
How to participate in the The Level Up Hour:
Watch on YouTube every Wednesday at 9amET
Chat with us on Discord https://discord.gg/5VMVGJt
Check out our GitHub repo https://github.com/level-up-hour/
About OpenShift:
Red Hat OpenShift is an open source container application platform based on the Kubernetes container orchestrator for enterprise application development and deployment.
https://www.openshift.com/
https://github.com/openshift/
#RedHat #OpenShift #tluh
A
A
A
A
A
A
Good
morning,
good
afternoon,
good
evening,
wherever
you're
hailing
from
welcome
to
another
episode
of
the
level
up
hour,
I
am
chris
short
executive
producer
of
open
shift
tv.
I
am
joined
by
a
bunch
of
red
hatters
this
morning,
people
I
have
had
on
the
channel
before
and
new
people,
so
it's
great
to
have
them
all,
but
I
will
hand
it
over
to
the
one
and
only
the
illustrious
langdon
white.
I
think
I've.
B
Been
on
the
show
before
yeah
excuse
me
on
the
channel
here
and
there
so
just
in
case
anybody
wasn't
sure
who
you
might
be
referring
to.
So,
let's,
let's
quickly
introduce
the
show
and
then
I'll
ask
our
guests
to
kind
of
introduce
themselves.
As
I
often
comment
on
the
show,
red
hat
is
notorious
for
changing
group
names
and
changing
role,
names
and
all
that
stuff,
so
keeping
track
of
what
someone's
like
current
title
and
who,
what
like
part
of
the
company
they
work
for,
is
often
entertaining
and
challenging.
B
But
you
know
we
do
what
we
do
it's
funny,
because,
but
it's
so
often
our
job
doesn't
change
just
everything
around
it,
and
so
we're
kind
of
like,
oh
all,
right.
So
we're
now
part
of
this
group.
So
we'll
do
that
in
two
seconds.
But
as
always,
I
like
to
share
my
amazing
artwork
of
my
slides,
no
fault
to
the
designers
who
actually
designed
the
graphics.
This
is
just
my
cobbled
together
version
from
their
good
sources.
B
So
this
is
a
level
up
hour
where
we
talk
about
containers
and
we
talk
about
why
you
who
may
or
may
not
have
any
familiarity
with
containers
really
should
get
familiar
with
them,
because
they're
super
handy
they're
not
just
like
another
load
of
hype
and
they
are
really
useful,
even
when
you're
just
using
them.
For
you
know
kind
of
you
know,
we've
had
episodes
about
tools,
containers
and
about
you,
know
kind
of
running
your
own
personal
services,
and
you
know
all
kinds
of
different
things.
B
They're
great
they're
really
really
useful,
they're,
so
much
easier
than
a
vm,
and
so
we
hope
to
convince
you
and
then
oh
today,
I
forgot
chris
short-
is
back.
Look
at
that,
but
last
week
we
had.
I
guess.
Two
weeks
ago
now
we
had
andrew
sullivan
was
hosting
the
show
with
me,
because
chris
went
off
and
took
a
vacation.
B
Oh
yeah,
that
was
even
worse,
so
so,
yes,
I
forgot
to
update
the
slide,
but
chris
is
back
with
the
twitter
handle
where
you
can
always
find
us.
Chris
short,
my
twitter
handle
is
langdon
with
a
one
but
feel
free
to
ask
andrew
sullivan,
whatever
you
like
about
the
show,
because
it
will
entertain
to
both
of
us
to
no
end
or
you
can
also
come
to
his
show.
The
openshift
admin
which
I
believe
is
on.
B
B
Right,
whatever,
whatever
technology
you're
using
that
way,
we
can,
we
can
show
how
awesome
the
show
is
to
everybody
else
who,
like
numbers
about
things
and
feel
free
to
ask
us
questions
in
the
chat
at
any
time.
We
try
to
keep
track
as
much
as
we
can
so
from
last
time,
which
yeah
two
weeks
ago
last
week
was
summit.
B
Wait:
this
didn't
update
sorry,
so
this
says
the
container
health
index
is
today's
episode,
but
it's
not.
Today's
episode
is
about
tackle
and
conveyor
and
we'll
talk
about
that
in
two
seconds.
The
link
to
the
show
notes
from
the
last
episode
is
the
exact
same
thing
you
see
here,
except
it's
e37,
obviously,
and
so
yeah.
B
It's
weird
how
the
I
wonder
if
the
slides
didn't
update
in
general,
because
I
just
edited
them,
but
they
didn't
seem
to
take
so
I
will
make
sure
to
stop
and
restart
them
before
we
start
the
next
thing.
So
the
points
are
right.
So
starting
off,
let's
see
ramon.
Do
you
want
to
introduce
yourself?
Because
you
are
at
the
top
of
my
screen.
C
D
Yes,
hello,
my
name
is
phil
katzenak,
I'm
an
engineering
manager
that
works
in
the
middleware
department
of
red
hat
and
I'm
responsible
for
the
development
of
the
wind-up
tool
which
gets
prioritizes.
The
migration
toolkit
for
applications,
and
my
engineering
team
have
all
also
been
all
working
on
the
tackle
project
within
the
conveyor
community
and
for
the
last
six
months
and
we're
very
close
to
a
first
release.
B
A
B
To
say
about
the
red
hat,
you
know
you
really
need
to
think
about
what
what
swag
you'll
be
doing.
I
still
well
when
it's
a
little
colder
out.
I
still
wear
my
release
of
rel7
jacket,
which
is
super
nice,
so
you
know
it's
something
to
consider
we're,
always
I'm
always
about
to
swag.
So
why
don't
you
tell
us
a
little
bit
about
like
kind
of
or
you
know
either
one
of
you.
B
You
know
what
kind
of
is
the
goal
here
so
not
necessarily
and
we're
trying
to
talk
primarily
about
tackle,
because
I
think
we
have
some
of
your.
You
know
compatriots,
I
guess,
on
the
conveyor
project,
because
conveyors
actually
like
a
bunch
of
different
projects
on
future
episodes,
so
kind
of
what
is
specifically
tackle
about.
C
B
C
Okay,
yeah:
well,
the
the
idea
of
of
tackle
is
providing
some
sort
of
guidance
for
for
users.
Basically,
what
we
have
right
now
is
a
set
of
automated
analysis
tools
that
go
down
the
the
source
code
of
the
or
the
binaries
of
the
different
applications
you
want
to
migrate
and
provide
some
hints
on
how
to
actually
perform
this
kind
of
of
migration.
We
are
also
adding
some
other
tools.
C
For
example,
we
are
about
to
release
the
application
inventory,
which
is
something
aimed
at
you
know,
helping
users
out
there
go
bearing
their
their
own
application,
landscape
and
application
portfolio.
So
the
idea
is
to
have
everything
you
know
in
in
one
place
and
have
some
integration
between
the
different
analysis
and
assessment
tools
that
we
have
within
taco.
So
that's
it
for
the
analysis.
We
are
also
adding
a
lot
of
you
know
very
cool,
very
sci-fi.
C
I
would
say,
analysis
tools
coming
from
ibm
research,
which
is
our
partner
in
in
crime
in
in
this
tool,
and
also
we
are
adding
an
assessment
tool.
You
might
be
familiar
with
the
name
pathfinder,
which
is
an
assessment
tool
that
was
originally
developed
in
red
hat.
Consulting
and
what
we
are
doing
right
now
is
basically
rebuilding
it
from
scratch
and
sharing
it
with
the
tackle
community,
and
it's
something
that,
if
everything
goes
well
will
be
available
in
a
couple
of
weeks
out,
there.
C
A
C
Lots
of
ai
lots
of
very
scientific
mathematical
stuff
applied
to
to
this
problem
in
space,
which
is
really
really
really
cool,
so
we're
partnering
here
here
they
are
providing
the
the
muscle
and
the
brain
to
develop
this.
This
kind
of,
I
would
say
revolutionary
approaches
to
the
problem
space
and
we
provide
our
knowledge
in
in
this
kind
of
large-scale
migration
projects
we
have
been
doing
for
years.
D
Yeah,
so
just
just
responding
to
that
a
little
bit
more
land
and
you
were
talking
about
artificial
intelligence.
So
one
of
the
things
that's
getting
really
shortly
as
part
of
tackle
is
the
application
inventory
and
that's
like
a
hub
for
the
application,
modernization
migration
process.
So
it's
a
certain
repository
of
applications.
D
Any
patterns
that
need
to
be
remediated
before
you
could
consider
migrating
them
across
and
one
of
the
tools
that
the
ibm
guys
are
working
on
is
a
thing
called
application
container
advisor
and
that's
going
to
be
using
ai
to
take
characteristics
of
the
applications
in
terms
of
which
software
components
they
built
on
top
of
and
then
sort
of,
recommend
which
container
base
image
could
be
used
to
host
those
applications.
And
so
that's
a
really
solid
example
of
ei
yeah.
B
C
For
the
moment,
the
the
ai
is
more
focused
on
understanding
natural
language,
so
you
basically
describe
the
application
using
natural
language
using
a
attack
model
that
we
have
built
within
the
application
inventory.
But
yes,
like
you,
said
this
machine
learning
piece
isn't
roadmap
for
them,
so
they
want
to
be
able
to
learn
from
previous
decisions
in
order
to
recommend
different
container
images
to
containerize
your
applications.
Yes,.
B
Right
right,
so,
I
think,
just
kind
of
for
the
audience
to
kind
of
wrap
their
head
around.
This
can
maybe
one
of
you
share
like
where,
where
do
I
start
like?
What's
that
kind
of
first
screen
to
kind
of
wrap
your
head
around
kind
of
what
you
would
be
approaching,
this
problem
of
you
know,
excuse
me:
do
you
start
more
from
the
portfolio
side,
or
do
you
start
from
one
individual
application
side.
D
Yeah,
so
I
mean
I
can
share
my
screen
if
you
would
like
me
to
language
so
essentially
the
first
thing
to
do,
I
think,
is
to
import
or
randomly
input
a
collection
of
applications
and
that's
some
characteristics
that
describe
those
applications.
So
if
I
may
I'll
share
my
screen
just
to
give
you
a
flavor.
D
Okay,
then,
so,
hopefully
you
can
see
my
screen
I'll
just
get
more
presentable.
So
what
we
have
here
is
one
of
our
test
environments,
which
has
the
application
inventory
application
installed,
and
what
you
can
see
here
is
a
list
of
applications
that
have
already
been
manually
importing
the
application
through
the
ui
or
being
imported
through
a
file
import
process,
and
each
application
has
a
name,
and
it
has
a
description
and
it's
linked
to
a
business
service.
B
D
Yes,
yeah,
so
if
you
were
to
say
a
retail
bank
and
you'd
have
things
like
you
know:
retail
lending,
the
customers
for
mortgages,
home
insurance,
personal
loans,
all
these
sorts
of
things,
you
could
create
a
separate
business
service
for
each
of
those
different
sort
of
verticals
within
your
overall
organization,
and
then
you
would
link
the
applications
to
which
verticals
and
those
applications
contribute
towards.
That's
that's
the
idea
behind
them.
Yeah,
okay,
and
once
you
expand
on
these
applications,
you
can
see
a
little
bit
more
detail
about
them,
I'll,
just
click
on
one.
D
That's
been
assessed
already,
so
the
idea
is
that
we
have
this
extensible
tagging
model
that
allows
users
to
categorize
the
applications
in
as
many
dimensions
as
they
want,
and
we
can
group
tags
together
into
into
groups.
We
call
tag
types,
so
we
could
say
and
I'll
show
you
how
those
type
types
are
presented
actually
I'll,
just
click
over
the
controls,
so
the
controls
is
a
set
of
control
data,
that's
add
value
to
the
application
inventory
itself
or
to
the
assessment
process.
Most
interesting.
D
One
of
the
controls
is
five
in
total
is
the
tags,
and
so
basically
tags
are
grouped
into
tag
types
and
then
each
within
each
tag
type.
You
have
several
different
tags,
we
do
supply
a
pre-shipped
set
of
tag,
types
and
tags,
and
but
obviously
the
customer
is
totally
unlimited
to
replace
them
and
up
to
that
they
add
their
own.
That
kind
of
thing,
so
they
can
add
as
many
dimensions
to
their
applications
as
they
want.
B
D
D
You
know,
obviously,
typically
another
application
will
be
using
one
or
these
sort
of
databases
for
persisting
data,
and
if
I
go
back
to
the
application
inventory-
and
I
want
to
look
for
applications
that
use
a
database
type,
I
would
search
for
date
tag
and
then
I'm
going
to
just
nip
through
the
list
of
available
tags
from
the
drop-down
list.
You
can
see
the
tag
type
is
qualified
underneath,
so
we've
got
operating
systems
and
all
these
sorts
of
things
runtimes
databases.
D
So
if
I
wanted
to
look
at
my
db2
based
applications,
this
will
give
me
the
subset
of
applications
that
contain
db2
yeah
and
if
I
wanted
to
further
distill
that
down
and
find
those
applications
that
were
on
the
on
the
zos
operating
system.
Again,
I
would
just
look
for
zero
west,
as
well
as
the
operating
system
up
there,
and
then
I
get
even
smaller
list.
Yeah
the
once
you've
expanded
this
expanded
yeah.
So
that's
the
subset
of
applications
that
run
on
zos
and
use
db2
as
they
as
their
database
management
system.
B
C
B
Like
that,
right,
like
you,
would
you
expect
a
developer
to
be
in
this
application,
or
is
that
is
it
more
like
the
enterprise
architect
is
going
to
lay
out
a
I
mean,
so
I
used
to
work
for
a
consulting
company.
We
had
this
product
right.
Consulting
companies
have
weird
products,
sometimes
called
surveyor
and
where
we
would
come
in
after
we
say
you
know
after
a
management
consultant
came
in
and
told
you
some
crazy
plan.
We
would
come
in
and
tell
you
to
actually
implement
that
plan.
B
You
know
with
your
technology
choices,
and
so
we
would
lay
out
you
know
multi-year
project
plans
of
portfolios
or
whatever,
and
so
is
that
kind
of
what
you're
that's
what
you're
kind
of
envisioning
here
right.
It's
like
to
get
to
be
able
to
keep
track
of
everything
that's
in
place
so
that
you
can
kind
of
say:
okay,
we're
gonna,
do
some
modernization
here,
we're
going
to
retire.
C
Exactly
exactly
the
the
idea
for
for
the
inventory:
well,
actually,
it's
something
that
has
been
requested
from
from
the
field
for
for
years.
I
I
myself
have
requested
having
something
like
that.
I
come
from
redhead
consulting
I've
been
doing
this
kind
of
migration
projects
for
for
almost
five
years
out
there.
You
know
large-scale
migration
projects
towards
different
application
servers
or
openshift
adoption
projects.
So
one
of
the
key
things
here
is
to
be
able
to
burn
the
the
landscape
and
and
the
whole
application
portfolio.
C
So
having
this,
let's
say
central
have
that
is
integrated
with
the
analysis
and
the
assessment
tools
allows
the
consultants
in
the
field-
and
you
know
any
architect
that
is
leading
this
kind
of
transformation
process
to
have
a
holistic
view
of
the
whole
application
portfolio.
That
needs
to
be
analyzed
and
migrated.
C
So,
with
this
holistic
view,
you're
able
to
identify
risks
as
early
as
possible
to
you
know,
get
details
that
span
across
the
whole
portfolio
in
order
to
design
a
migration
process,
as
you
know,
as
realistic
as
possible,
and
to
make
sure
that
it
can
be
re,
reliable
and
predictable
enough
for
for
the
whole
migration
project.
So
that's
that's
it
for
the
let's
say:
enterprise
architect,
role
for
the
actual
migrators
or
or
developers
that
perform
the
the
migration.
Once
everything
has
been
assessed
and
analyzed.
C
So
that's
one
thing,
but
also
in
the
future,
we're
thinking
about
providing
some
integration
from
this
application
inventory,
maybe
with
some
tools
like
jira
or
something
like
that,
these
kind
of
tools
that
developers
are
more
used
to
interact
with
in
order
to
let's
say
you
create
some
sort
of
migration,
wave
or
screens
within
the
application
inventory,
and
then
you
are
able
to
export.
Is
it
as
issues
on
jira
for
for
developers
to
take
them
and
perform
the
actual
changes?
So
that's
something
we
want
to
do.
B
So
so
one
thing
at
least
that
occurred
to
me
from
kind
of
a
developer,
or
you
know
even
like
you
know,
kind
of
not
the
enterprise
level
architect
but
kind
of
the
systems-
architects
that
are
working
with
these
migrations.
This
might
also
be
a
good
discovery
tool
and
in
some
ways,
also
the
anti-discovery
tool
in
that
you
know
kind
of
using
that
db2
example,
you
know
db2
is
set
to
be
sunsetted
right.
B
We
want
to
get
off
that
we
want
to
migrate
to
you
know
something
else
I
don't
know,
and
so
what
it
might
be
useful,
also
to
be
able
to
say,
is
like
as
a
system
architect
when
I'm
trying
to
plan
that
new
migration
of
the
new
application
is
to
know.
Okay,
this
service
is
doesn't
exist
yet,
but
it's
planned,
so
you
know,
go
make
sure
you
work
with
that
team.
So
don't
you
develop
the
same
thing
or
this
service
is
available
and
is
meant
for
long-term
usage.
B
Oh
and
this
service,
even
though
you
discovered
it,
it
looks
like
it's
perfect
for
what
you
want
is
set
to
be
sunsetted,
so
don't
go
building
it
into
your
new
application.
So
that
was
kind
of
one
thought
I've
had.
You
know
I've
seen
this
application,
you
know
once
or
twice,
but
it
might
be
nice
if
you
could
use
it
for
some
level
of
discovery
around.
B
You
know
how
you're
going
to
do
the
application
migration
more
than
just
you
know,
because
you
know
it's
always
a
fine
line
of
whether
you're
going
to
do
what
you
know
is
often
referred
to
as
like
a
lifted
shift.
You
know
migration
or
you're
actually
going
to
do
some
level
of
application.
Modernization
or
you
know
whatever
you
want
to
call
that.
B
But
basically
you
know
getting
getting
your
environment
more
holistic
over
time
you
know
or
simplified
really,
you
know
always
helps
and
so
having
using
a
tool
like
that
might
be
an
interesting
way
to
be
able
to
see
what
what
services
are
available,
that
I
could
take
advantage
of
so
that
I
could
do
more
like
a
modernization,
app
or
modernization
activity
on
this
application,
rather
than
the
planned,
lift
and
shift
with.
You
know
the
same
amount
of
effort.
So
that
was
one
thing
that
occurred
to
me.
C
D
C
The
idea
is
to
keep
it
focused
on
the
migration
process.
For
the
moment,
it
is
not
only
applications
what
we
load
up
in
into
the
application
inventory.
We
can
also
load
up
some
dependencies
and
yeah
the
concept
of
the
dependencies
between
applications
or
applications
with
a
third
party
kind
of
middleware
or
database,
or
something
like
that.
C
B
D
D
D
So
to
go
into
the
questionnaire
process.
You
just
need
to
select
any
individual
application
and
click
the
assess
button,
and
it
takes
you
into
this
assessment
process
and
and
basically
there's
two
there's
a
first
page
which
allows
you
to
define
the
group
of
people
who
have
been
involved
in
the
assessment.
So
it
could
be
individual
stakeholders
that
you
want
to
add
to
the
to
the
actual
assessment
process
and
or
it
could
be
stakeholder
groups
that
you've
pre-defined.
So
I've
got
this
predefined
stakeholder
group.
D
That's
a
collection
of
stakeholders,
stakeholders
that
represents
the
ordered
security
and
project
office.
For
example.
Yeah
I've
got
another
group
of
stakeholders
that
are
linked
to
the
more
assure
business
function,
yeah
and
then
once
you've
selected
who's
involved
in
the
assessment
process,
and
this
just
gives
you
an
audit
trail
of
who
was
leading
the
engagement
and
who's
been
contributing
the
engagement
so
right,
respectively.
You
can
be
sure
that
the
right
people
have
attended
and
made
their
contribution
to
the
assessment
process.
D
Then
you
go
through
a
series
of
questions
that
are
grouped
into
categories
that
allow
you
to
drill
into
the
the
characteristics
of
these
applications
and
how
they're
supported-
and
you
know
how
frequently
they
deployed
all
these
sorts
of
things.
And
most
of
these
questions
are
multiple
choice,
answers
and
the
way
the
question
data
is
configured
is
depending
upon
the
answers.
Risks
will
be
raised.
D
You
know,
there'll
be
some
answers,
that's
all
green
category,
some
that
are
amber
categories,
some
that
are
red
category
and
these
sort
of
bring
raised
flags
about
the
suitability
of
these
applications
for
containerization
as
a
consequence
of
driving
one
of
these
engagements.
What
will
happen
is
the
the
person
need.
The
engagement
will
naturally
solicit
information
out
of
the
group
of
attendees
who
are
contributing
to
the
process
and
they're
about
to
get
information
that
can't
be
just
just
you
know,
encapsulated
by
a
single
radio
button
on
a
single
question,
so
for
every
single
questionnaire.
D
There's
all
every
single
section
of
the
questionnaire
there's
additional
notes
or
comments.
Section
and
you'd
expect
this
to
be
populated
with
information
that
is
solicited
from
the
conversation
yeah.
So,
ultimately,
when
all
the
questions
have
been
answered
is
essentially,
the
the
assessment
questionnaire
is
complete
and
the
users
must
go
into
the
sort
of
next
step
in
the
process,
which
is
the
review
process.
D
So
if
I
just
go
back
to
the
application
imagery-
and
I
choose
the
holier
one
again-
sorry
and
just
click
on
the
review
button,
what
you
will
see
here
is
essentially
it
the
the
the
outcome
of
the
assessment.
You
know
these.
This
sort
of
pie
chart
represents
the
responses
and
in
terms
of
the
amount
of
risks
and
the
type
of
risks
that
have
been
sort
of
raised
as
a
result
of
the
questionnaire.
D
Yeah,
you
can
click
on
the
reports
function
and
the
reports
function
gives
you
a
nice
overview
of
those
applications
that
satisfy
this
filter
criteria
in
terms
of
their
suitability,
which
ones
are
low,
medium
and
high
risk.
It
gives
you
a
nice
tabular
view
of
those
applications
in
terms
of
their
criticality
their
priority.
The
degree
of
confidence
that
you
have
that
they're
suitable
for
for
rehosting
or
refactoring
or
whatever,
and
also
a
nice
adopted
adoption
plan
which
takes
into
consideration
both
the
application
dependencies.
D
So,
for
example,
this
particular
application
here.
The
front
end
for
the
core
generator
depends
upon
the
author
authentication
application.
So
the
it's
like
a
gun
chart
essentially
and
the
the
length
of
the
bars
are
reflective
of
how
much
effort
was
allocated
to
each
application,
which
is
one
of
those
fields
that
you
populate
during
the
review
process.
D
And
then
these
things
are
ordered
in
business
priority
with
dependencies
taken
into
consideration
yeah.
So
it
starts
to
give
the
user.
You
know
a
high
level
plan
of
which
applications
to
migrate
in
which
order
and
realistically
how
much
time
they
need
to
ring
fence
for
each
particular
application.
Does.
B
That
make
sense,
yeah
and
so
specifically
around
the
dependencies
part
of
it.
What
I'm
curious
about
it's
like
does
the
risk
factor
or
effort
factor
take
into
account
as
part
of
kind
of
its
input.
The
number
of
dependencies
you
know
does
that
kind
of
increase
or
low,
because
I
would
think
that
that
would
increase
its
score
like
as
and
make
it
harder
to
to
migrate.
Then
yeah.
D
Yeah
there
are
some
specific
questions
around
around
the
dependencies
and
obviously
they
will
influence
whether
it's
high
risk
lowest
medium
risk
isn't
any
logic
in
the
application.
At
the
moment,
that
is
specific
about
counting
the
number
of
dependencies
and
then
elevating
or
decreasing
the
risk
based
upon
that
count.
But
it
is
a
good
idea
langdon.
So
I
think
I'll
put
that
in
the
backlog.
B
C
C
C
We
are
thinking
about
using
this
same
kind
of
engine
to
provide
recommendations
on
whether
to
re-host
through
the
platform
or
refactor
your
application.
So
we
want
to
have
some
ai
support
here
for
recommendations
about
which
path
to
follow.
For
the
moment,
it
is
the
the
the
user,
after
gathering
all
the
different
risks
that
have
been
raised.
After
doing
the
the
questioner,
it
is
the
user,
the
one
that
decides
which
path
to
follow
in
the
future.
B
I
would
actually
yeah
so
basically
the
reason
I
was
thinking
about
it
was
two
things.
One
was,
as
you
feel,
as
you
were
kind
of
explaining
is
like
as
you're,
and
I
laughed
when
you
said
this
is
like
when
you're,
especially
coming
in
as
a
consultant.
So
you
you
come
in
right
and
you're
having
this
portfolio
conversation
right
and
like
I
have
literally
sat
outside
someone's
office
door
for
multiple
days,
just
sitting
there
waiting
for
them
to
have
time
to
meet
with
me.
You.
B
Of
dollars
an
hour
they're
paying
for
me
just
sit
there
outside
his
office
doing
nothing,
but
so
sometimes
it's
like
pulling
teeth,
but
the
the
comments
section
that
you
were
kind
of
saying.
I
think
that's
a
really
important
part
right,
because
you
like
and
and
maybe
even
worth
kind
of,
even
building
upon,
where
you
often
capture
a
lot
of
information
there
that
isn't
strictly
relevant
all
the
time
immediately
or
might
be
later
or
whatever.
B
But
I
was
just
thinking
is
that
applying
some
natural
language,
maybe
not
real
soon,
because
you
need
a
set
of
data
to
kind
of
work
from,
but
applying
some
natural
language.
Understanding
of
the
data
in
the
comments
section
may
also
be
able
to
help
inform
you
know
the
the
application
migration
you
know.
I
mean
this
is
an
extreme
example,
but
you
know
in
the
comments
section
you're
putting
in
you
know,
a
team
is
wildly
geographically
diverse,
right
or
team
is
all
you
know
just
started
on
the
project
two
weeks
ago.
B
You
know
things
like
that,
like
things
that
you
may
not
be
capturing
or
don't
know
to
capture
yet
right
in
the
questionnaire
might
be
interesting
to
kind
of
start
to
look
at
from
a
natural
language
perspective.
You
know
basically
like
a
joke
around
about
using
ai,
to
do
flame
war
detection
right
in
various
open
source
communities.
Same
kind
of
idea,
right
is
you
you
can
get
sentiment.
You
know
those
things
out
of
it.
The
other
question
I
had
too
was:
oh
no
nuts.
B
Need
to
talk
yeah,
so
yeah
I
have
I
like.
I
said
I
used
to
do
a
lot
of
this
stuff
for
a
long
time
and
you
can
see
why
I
joined
red
hat
to
get
out
of
you
know
get
away
from
from
that
nightmare,
so
yeah.
So
I
just,
I
think,
there's
a
lot
of
opportunity
there.
So
one
of
the
things
that
I
find
a
little
bit
confusing
is
okay,
so
I
know
the
questionnaire
part
is
pathfinder
is
what's
the
overview
app
called?
D
In
the
application
inventory,
and
essentially
we've
got
the
controllers
on
the
application
of
three
different
micro
services:
yeah,
okay,
and
what
we
need
to
do.
We've
got
the
migration
toolkit
for
applications
which
is
upstream,
is
the
wind-up
project
which
does
the
the
automated
code
analysis
and
we
need
to
bring
that
to
the
party,
so
that's
integrated
to
the
application
inventory.
So
the
idea
being
that
within
the
application
inventory
you
could
provide,
you
know
the
path
to
your
enterprise
archive
files
or
the
github
repository
from
which
the
application
is
built.
C
So,
while
you're
setting
everything
up
phil,
I
would
say
windup
or
mta,
which
is
the
downstream
distribution
for
windup,
is
an
automated
analysis
tool
that
can
use
both
source
code
and
binaries,
and
the
idea
behind
this
tool
is,
to
you
know,
measure
the
gap
that
you
have
from
a
certain
run
time
towards
a
a
certain
target
runtime.
So,
for
example,
it
was
built
back
in
the
day
to
help
on
migration
from
different
application
servers,
weblogic
websphere
towards
eab.
That
was
the
original,
I
would
say,
purpose
folder
for
the
tool.
C
B
D
Xml
files
that
provide
configuration-
it
doesn't
necessarily
just
java
class
files,
but
it
is
as
as
mentioned,
its
origins,
we're
all
about
getting
workloads
on
the
eap
from
other
middleware
providers
or
and
what
it
still
does
today
very
well
is
upgrades
from
one
version
of
efp
to
another
version
of
eop
yeah
right
right:
okay,
okay,
so
essentially,
hopefully
you
can
see
my
screen
again
and
the
this
is
the
the
web
ui
for
the
migration
toolkit
for
applications,
and
we
have
a
web
console.
We've
got
a
maven
plugin
and
it's
available.
D
It's
not
rated
on
openshift
and
we've
got
a
cli.
Obviously,
and
we've
got
numerous
ide
plugins,
so
we
support
a
quality
studio,
eclipse,
eclipse,
vs,
cord
and
and
in
july,
we'll
also
have
a
plugin
released
for
the
intellij
ide.
So
it's
it's
really
can
be
consumed
in
many
different
ways,
but
the
web
ui
is
probably
the
easiest
way
to
demonstrate
it
and
for
people
to
understand
the
concepts.
D
And
and
there's
other
ones
as
well,
so
I'm
gonna
judicate
long
jdk
rules
for
springbook
the
corpus
rules
for
making
sure
you've
got
the
you've
got
the
right
version
of
spring
boot
if
you're
wearing
springboard
applications
or
red
at
runtimes
and
there's
other
targets
as
well.
But
these
are
just
the
ones
that
probably
got
the
most
highest
profile
and
we
want
to
you
know,
really
put
in
the
face
of
the
users,
the
ones
that
they're
generally
going
to
be
selecting
yeah.
D
When
you
click
the
next
button,
what
it
does
it
comes
it
it
runs
behind
the
scenes,
identifies
all
the
packages
within
the
applications.
There
are
many
standard
libraries
that
you
that
are
provided
and
that
we
are
aware
of,
and
you
would
want
to
analyze
those,
because
really
what
you're
interested
in
is
just
the
business
logic.
D
Then
there's
some
sort
of
advanced
options
about.
If
you
want
to
write
some
rules
yourself,
because
the
application
is
a
rules-based
engine
and
looking
for
characteristics
within
code
and
when
those
characteristics
are
discovered,
it
generates
issues
that
provide
content
for
the
report
and
there's
lots
and
lots
of
gurus
delivered
as
part
of
the
application.
D
C
D
B
D
D
So
once
you
understand
the
how
the
rules
are
structured,
they're
quite
easy
to
navigate
to,
but
when
you
generate
the
reports,
what
you
can
also
see
is
the
issues
that
are
fired.
You
can
trace
it
back
to
the
rule
that
fired
it.
So
I'll
demonstrate
that
in
a
second
actually,
so
click
on
next
get
a
confirmation
button
that
will
just
give
you
a
summarization
of
what
you're
going
to
be
doing.
So
these
are
the
applications
you've
set
to
analyze.
D
That
will
kick
off
the
analysis,
so
take
me
to
another
screen
that
gives
me
a
list,
a
process
that
you
can
follow
and
understand
where
we
are
the
with
the
analysis,
but
just
like
any
good
demonstration.
What
I
will
do
is,
I
will
click
to
everything,
another
pre-prepared
one
and
this
icon
here
is
this
reports.
D
D
And
then
then
you
start,
then
you
start
actually
seeing
the
reports
themselves
and
these
labels
here
allow
you
to
see
which
technologies
are
supported
or
unsupported
or
embeddable
within
each
particular
run
time.
So
that's
gwester,
jboss
erp.
As
I
say,
this
gives
you
a
key
to
give
you
an
understanding
of
which
of
those
technology
tags
are
supported
by
those
those
runtimes,
and
you
can
create
your
own
versions
of
these
target
labels,
which
was
one
of
the
options
in
the
configuration.
D
The
thing
that
really
is
important
is
the
issues
list
and
if
you
have
a
look
at
some
of
these
issues,
you
can
click
on
that
it'll
tell
you
which
file
the
issue
is
located
in.
You
get
a
nice
lengthy
description
of
what
needs
to
change
with
some
reference
materials,
and
if
you
wanted
to
drill
into
the
detail
of,
you
know
why
this
particular
issue
has
been
generated.
What's
the
rule
behind
it,
click
on
the
sure
rule
and
actually
that's
not
the
most
readable
rules,
but
basically
there's
a
when
condition
that
says.
D
You
know
when
you
see
your
reference
to
this
particular
method
within
method.
Call
then,
and
what
you
need
to
do
is
is
basically
generate
an
issue,
and
the
issue
has
a
category
which
indicates
severity.
How
much
work's
involved
gives
a
title
and
there's
some
related
information
that
you
saw
on
the
last
report.
A
D
C
C
B
You
know
so
the
one
that
caught
me
really
off
guard
was
there's
an
in-memory
database
called
h2
and
if
you're
running
that
as
a
single
container
enabled
element,
it
won't
work
because
of
that
that
h2
database
doesn't
have
any
place
to
write
to
disk.
So
it's
got
these.
You
know,
there's
these
weird
things
where
it's
like.
Oh,
if
I
really
got
through
it,
you
know
I
could
probably
figure
it
out,
but
you
know
that's
that
one's
really
interesting
yeah.
B
A
B
D
Yes,
he's
entirely
right:
there's
you
can
you
can
view
the
rules?
It's
yes!
Well,
don't
call
us
I'm
pleased.
You
pick
up
pick
us
up
on
that
one.
Here's
a
way
of
viewing
all
the
rule
sets
that
are
going
to
be
used
in
the
analysis
prior
to
actually
kicking
off
the
analysis.
So
you
don't
have
to
have
the
reports
to
see
the
rules
with
via
the
ui.
That
is
very
true
yeah.
So.
C
So,
right
now
what
we
are
aiming
at
is
to
have
this
fully
integrated
experience
from
the
application
inventory
to
being
able
for
being
able
to
assess
the
portfolio,
which
is
something
that
we
already
have
with
a
pathfinder
and
now
we're
working
on
the
actual
integration
between
windup
and
the
application
inventory.
So
we
plan
to
let's
say,
migrate,
wind
up
under
the
tackle
umbrella
and
have
everything
fully
integrated
and
since
windup
is
such
a
great
analysis
tool.
The
ibm
team
has
developed
a
couple
of
analyses
related
tools.
C
One
of
them,
for
example,
is
diva,
which
is
able
to
analyze
the
data
layer
from
an
application
and
basically
detect
all
the
storage
dependencies.
An
application
might
have
and
detect
things
like
distributed
transactions
and
things
like
that
and
map
them
out
and
create
graphs
based
on
on
the
dependencies
that
could
exist
between
applications
with
with
the
same
database.
You
know
transactions
spanning
across
several
databases
or
across
several
different
applications
or
middleware
elements.
That's
what
diva
is.
C
C
The
same
goes
for
tackle
cycle
configuration
discovery,
which
is
you
know,
configuration
files
are
usually
something
that
we
forget
about
in
this
kind
of
migration
project,
so
we
change
the
technology
and
then
we
struggle
to
change
the
configuration
model
between
the
two
technologies,
this
kind
of
tool.
What
tries
to
do
is
to
translate
configuration
files
from
one
format
to
the
other,
to
make
them
compatible
to
the
target
technology.
C
That's
something
that
we
also
want
to
integrate
into
the
whole
wind
up,
analysis
and
transformation
flow,
and
I
think
the
first
mbp
for
tcd
has
been
made
available
today
on
on
the
tackle
repositories,
and
we
also
talked
about
the
application.
Containerization
advisor
the
one
that,
with
natural
language,
suggests
the
container
image
that
you
should
be
using
based
on
the
technology
stack
and
the
last
one
which,
for
me,
is
one
of
the
most
exciting
ones.
C
Is
the
the
one
related
to
test
driven
migration.
So,
basically,
what
this
tool
does
is
that
it
analyze
the
source
code
of
your
application
and
is
able
to
generate
a
test
suite
that
creates
some
sort
of
functional
profile
of
how
your
application
behaves.
So
one
of
the
key
problems
that
we
have
when
we
are
migrating
applications
and
we
are
performing
source
code
changes,
is
somehow
being
able
to
warranty
that
the
application
behaves
the
same.
B
Be
ridiculous,
I
mean
like
one
of
the
things
I
think
people
don't
capture
in
a
lot
of
this
stuff
right.
Is
that
application
even
creation,
much
less
modernization
by
modernization
in
particular,
one
of
the
biggest
gaining
factors
is
usually
testing
like
qb
qa
and
that
resource,
whether
it
be
automated,
whether
it
be
people
whether
it
be
whatever,
but
that
resource
being
so
constrained
that
they
can't
take
in
more
applications,
and
so
as
a
result.
B
Even
though
you
might
have
the
developers
to
do
the
work,
you
might
even
have
the
code
all
done,
you
don't
have
anybody
to
actually
validate
that
this
thing
set.
Does
what
it
says
it's
going
to
do.
I
saw
countless
applications
that
could
not
move
off
of
the
mainframes
they
were
on,
because
no
one
knew
how
to
replicate
the
business
logic
that
was
encoded
in
the
cobol.
B
B
You
know-
or
you
know
I
don't-
I
don't
know
actually
where
this
is
kind
of
like
reaching
out
in
my
space
but
like
when
you
look
at
I've
splinked
on
the
name
of
that
company,
but
like
we
use
a
product
in
the
linux
world,
that's
like
a
paid.
You
know
product
to
do
security
assessment
as
well
as
code
assessment.
B
C
Yeah,
absolutely
we're
we're
still
trying
to
figure
out
the
integration
patterns
to
make
it
easier
for
new
projects
to
come
on
board
to
the
whole
tackle
umbrella.
I
would
say
we
we
are
trying
to
bring
as
many
vendors
gsis
customers
out
there
to
to
share
their
knowledge
and
and
to
contribute
to
this,
and
we
are
very
open
to
to
integrate
any
tools
that
any
gsis
out
there
might
have
developed
in
the
past
to
to
you
know,
address
these
kind
of
problems
so
yeah.
B
Right
right,
yeah,
no,
that
makes
a
lot
of
sense,
and
so
I
was
going
to
ask
a
little
bit
more
questions,
but
I
want
to
take
pause
for
a
second,
because
it's
about
that
time
of
the
show
where
we
are
running
up
on
10
o'clock.
So
I
would
like
to
pause
for
a
moment
and
share
some
sweet
sweet
internet
points,
because
I'm
talking
about
everybody
loves
the
internet,
all
right
so
for
on.
B
You
know,
for
the
sake
of
our
guests,
we
like
to
sorry
we
have
a
concept
on
the
show
that
we
call
sweet,
sweet
internet
points
and
every
time
we
do
an
episode
we
like
to
share
who
our
leaders
are
in
submitting
for
internet
points.
You
can
get
them
a
bunch
of
different
ways
by
watching
episodes
and
submitting
the
code
that
you
see
during
the
show
you
can
re-watch
old
episodes
and
look
for
the
code
there
and
you
can,
you
know
and
and
submit
those
I
like.
B
B
At
5800
points
and
netherlands
hackham
at
5500
points,
I
don't
know
how
much
of
the
entertainment
here
is.
Actually
me,
you
know
destroying
people's
nics
on
the
internet,
but
I
just
dropped
the
codes
they're
on
the
screen
right
now,
but
I
also
just
dropped
them
into
the
chat,
hopefully
they're
the
same.
Yes,
they
are
and
then
noah
friction
and
joe
fuzz
were
both
holding
stable
at
4,
000
and
2
300
respectively.
B
B
D
B
Yes,
yes,
they
are
all
on
youtube
and
you
know
so
we're
gonna.
Do
the
shout
out,
click
like
and
subscribe
because
you
know
for
the
corporate
overlords,
not
really
it's,
because
we
wanna.
We
also,
like
the
props
of
you,
know,
y'all,
watching
the
show.
So
thanks
so
much
everybody
for
always
being
here
and
to
our
guests.
I
just
wanted
to
ask
kind
of
one
more
question,
which
is
that
it
sounds
like
you
have
a
ton
of
plants.
B
C
Absolutely
we're
trying
to
enforce
the
open
source
period
as
much
as
possible
in
the
project,
so
basically,
what
we're
doing
is
doing
our
planning
sessions
in
the
open
and
that
that
goes
for
the
whole
conveyor
community
and
for
all
the
tools
inside
the
the
community.
So
a
couple
of
weeks
ago
we
did
the
june
planning
session
and
you
can
find
the
output
from
that
session
and
the
roadmap
that
we
presented
on
the
conveyor
youtube
channel.
So
the
whole
session
is
there.
C
B
C
B
Okay
cool,
I
mean
so
one
of
those
things.
The
reason
I
like
to
ask
that
question.
Even
if
it's
findable
is
because
I
may
discover
a
conveyor
on
irc,
that
people
occasionally
take
a
look
at
right,
but
where
I
want
to
know
you
know
what
I
want
our
audience
to
know
rate
is
like:
where
should
I
go?
Where
people
actually
are
where
your
team
generally
communicates
with?
C
That
will
be
a
slack
for
sure
you
can
find
phil.
You
can
find
myself
the
whole
engineering
team,
not
only
the
red
hat
engineering
team,
but
also
the
people
from
ibm
research
are
there
as
well.
So
if
you,
if
you
have
any
kind
of
jobs
or
problems
with
the
technology,
we're
all
there
and
we're
happy
to
help
everyone
right.
C
A
C
B
Yeah,
oh
yeah!
No,
actually
I
think
I
talked
to
somebody
about
it.
So
yeah
there's
I
mean
as
far
as
what's
running
in
the
container.
It
doesn't
really
matter.
You
know
like
for
the
most
part
you
can
just
kind
of
run
it.
So
as
long
as
you're
using
a
base
image
that
runs
dotnet
core,
then
it
should
work
fine,
but
yeah
you
can.
A
B
Yeah,
I
am,
I
jokingly
refer
to
the
fact
that
I
I
did.net
for
a
long
time
and
I
actually
there's
two
red
hat
employees.
One
is
gunner
hellickson
and
one
is
davidettes
and
they're
pretty
well
known
with
inside
red
hat,
but
they
also
they've
done
a
podcast
together
for
years
and
it's
really
good
a
lot
of
the
time.
B
But
I
was
on
it
a
couple
of
times
and
one
of
the
times
I
was
talking
about.net
and
how
I
really
like
c,
sharp
as
a
language
and
basically
played
me
out,
and
it
was
really
quite
amusing,
because
this
is
before
dotnet
was
available
on
linux.
So,
but
I
was
basically
at
the
time
lamenting
the
fact
that
I
can't
do
c
sharp
on
linux
anymore.
But
now
I
can
so
yes.
C
All
right
and
also
regarding.net,
I
have
to
say
it
is
not
in
our,
I
would
say
upcoming
roadmap,
but
I
know
the
move
to
cube.
Guys
are
are
working
on
that.
So
maybe
we
could
leverage
the
kind
of
technology
they're
using
within
tackle
to
to
help
on
those
migrations
as
well.
So
that's
something
we're
thinking,
we're.
Definitely
thinking
about.
B
Cool
yeah,
I
mean
it's
just
the
the
major
reason
I'm
bringing
it
up
is
right.
It's
like
you
know
the
two
languages
are,
you
know,
c-sharp
and
job
are
neck
and
neck
in
most
enterprises
right.
So
you
know
you're
going
to
have
you're
going
to
see
a
lot
of
c
sharp
you're.
Also
in
many
enterprises
going
to
have
both
right
and
you
know
and
being
able
to
have
you
know
a
tool
chain
that
migrates
either.
A
A
row
that
kind
of
thing
no
good
all
right.
Well,
thank
you,
everyone
for
joining
us.
This
has
been
very
informative.
I've
learned
some
things,
so
I'm
always
happy
about
that.
Up
next
on
the
channel
is
the
ask
an
openshift
admin
office
hours
today,
we're
discussing
certif
ssl
certificates
on
openshift.
We
kind
of
had
some
issues
with
that
topic,
getting
streamed
the
other
day,
so
we're
gonna
tackle
it.
No
pun
intended
again.