►
From YouTube: OpenSSF Diagrammers Society (February 9, 2023)
Description
Meeting minutes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14i9v7WuQcLzWpvLe9B0sl-kf90JLwxNwrZkRXLWmEdQ/edit#heading=h.9m0zi4b0wnne
B
A
B
B
A
A
A
Small
group
conversation
today,
as
I
just
highlighted,
there's
an
exciting
new
example
diagram
that
is
used
throughout
many
projects
within
the
LF
ecosystem
stickers.
And
if
we
like
that,
that's
another
way
we
can
represent
ourselves.
That
is
our
no
mention,
there's
actually
a
tool
that
does
that.
So
that
would
be
a
fairly
simple
exercise
to
get.
B
A
But
I
actually
shared
that
so
I've
I
did.
The
next
thing
is
the
the
presentation
that
I
shared
here
I've
shared
with
the
Tac
GB
governance
committee
and
I,
also
shared
with
the
end
users,
working
group
and
I
think
I'm
going
to
be
giving
it
to
the
continuous
delivery
Foundation
talk
next
week.
They
were
looking
for
some
inspiration
of
ways.
They
can
represent
themselves.
C
B
The
bidding
notes
we
have
the
homework.
Yes,
it
comments
on
deck
which
we
can
do,
but
then
there
was
personal
ideas
and
then
requirements,
so
I
I
think
the
Persona
is.
Maybe
you
know
what
I
want
to
bring
up
first,
because
yes,
I
think
it
kind
of
you
know.
We've
all
said
hey.
There
are
many
different
point
of
views.
We
could
go
for,
you
know
and
it's
all
the
matter
of.
What's
the
audience
and
different
audiences
will,
you
know
probably
justify
using
one
type
of
diagram
versus
another
right.
B
The
representations
are
kind
of
aimed
at
different
types
of
people,
and
so
I
think
you
know
we
all
said
yeah.
There
are
different
point
of
views
and
they
may
all
be
diff
interesting
in
their
own
way.
The
problem
is,
we
can't
tackle
it
all.
At
the
same
time,
we
need
to
try
to
figure
out
which
one
do
we
go
first
for
right,
so
I
have
thought
about
it.
B
B
And
then
the
second
one
I
think
is
more
like
the
person
who
want
to
and
I
don't
know
if
this
can
be
done
as
the
same
or
if
it
has
to
be
separated,
but
you
know
somebody
who
is
more
like
technically
oriented
and
is
trying
to
figure
out
okay.
What
are
the
Technologies
I
need
to
use
to?
You
know
improve
my
system,
my
environment,
over
right
and
the
reason
I
say
that
is
because
I
think
we
you
know
so
now.
If
I
may
well,
I'd
be
happy
to
entertain
feedback
on
that.
B
That's
my
point
of
view.
It's
like
these
are
kind
of
like
the
primary
targets
we
should
focus
on
and
the
reason
I
say.
Those
two
is
because,
as
I
said,
we
all
share
that
need
to
just
be
able
to
see.
What's
going
on
in
this
whole
position
and
the
other
is
you
know,
people
who
have
heard
about
open
ssf
about
the
big
software
supply
chain
security
problem.
They
want
to
start
tackling
it.
Where
do
they
go
next?
What
do
they
do?
B
What
are
the
things
they
should
be
looking
into,
and
so
I
think
this
one
is
more
technically
oriented
and
I
think
from
I.
Think
the
cicd
point
of
view
is
my
favorite
for
that
one:
okay,
the
for
the
first
one-
and
you
know
I
I
kind
of
mangled
the
two
now,
but
you
know
I'll
let
you
react
obviously,
but
I
actually
like
some
landscape,
one
for
the
kind
of
global
view
or
if
we
want
to
have
more
of
a
it
is
basic
hierarchy.
B
And
if
we
had
a
better
the
the
problem
I
have
with
that
one
is
that
I
don't
know
that
their
structure
is
necessarily
the
white
one
or
something
that
is
actually
meaningful.
I
think
it
has
been
mostly
developed
organically
over
time
and
we
haven't.
As
you
know,
the
attack
has
been
in
the
process
of
trying
to
figure
out
even
what's
going
on
here.
What
are
the
different
groups
and
projects?
B
We
have
what's
the
relationship
and
we
definitely
haven't
got
to
the
point
where
we
say:
okay,
does
this
actually
make
sense,
or
do
we
need
to
move
things
around,
for
instance,
and
so
that
leads
me
to
you
know
suspect
that
this
purely
organizational
hierarchy,
type
of
view
is
actually
in
that
the
proper
way
of
presenting
ourselves,
because
I
I
don't
think
that
structure
is
necessarily
right
so
high,
basing
the
representation
based
on
that
is
maybe
the
wrong
move.
So
I
spoke
enough.
I'll
just
set
up
because
I
threw
a
lot
of
stuff.
A
So
while
you
were
talking
I
pasted
in
right
before
this
call,
is
the
GB
attack
governance
committee
yeah,
and
they
spoke
about
this
exact
problem
about
personas
and
about
what
problems
we're
trying
to
solve.
So,
if
you
look
whether
what
problems
we're
trying
to
solve
I
think
that
Echoes
exactly
what
you
just
stated
or
no,
we
have
the
new
user
perspective.
Where
do
I
start
and
then
from
a
more
technical,
a
stakeholder
perspective.
You
know
what
are
we
doing,
how's
it
going?
How
do
I
get
involved?
A
I
think
that
pairs
very
well
and
Echoes
a
lot
of
what
the
higher
ups
are.
Also
pondering
my
only
complaint
about
the
hierarchy,
diagram,
I,
think
from
an
outsider,
I,
don't
know
what
value
that
adds
to
them.
It
doesn't
help
explain
what
business
problems
those
groups
are
trying
to
solve
it.
Just
kind
of
solves
like
where
in
the
org
chart
is
this
stuff
and
hey,
there's
a
a
budget
committee.
A
D
Yeah
I
would
I
would
agree
with
that,
as
the
the
new
person
that
I
am
I
wasn't
in
the
in
the
meeting
two
weeks
ago,
so
I'm
playing
a
little
ketchup
looking
at
this
deck
I
think
the
deck
is
great,
I
just
don't
know
as
a
new
person
if
it
helps
with
trying
to
navigate
the
open
ssf.
So,
for
instance,
let
me
give
you
an
example.
A
C
B
A
B
So
I
I
think
you
know
again:
I
I
think
the
governance
structure
we
have
the
hierarchy
is
something
that
internally
we
definitely
want
to
have
yes
and-
and
you
know,
because
we
do
need
to
figure
out
whether
this
is
the
right
structure.
Where
there's
some
working
group
should,
you
know,
be
moved
around
merged
or
project
move
around
stuff
like
this
right,
I.
Think
in
that
recall,
I
mean
I.
Think
of
the
top
of
our
head
that
we
think
that
is
in
the
next
scorecard,
isn't
their
best
practices
it
is
and
it's
like.
B
Well,
then,
we
have
a
security,
tooling
working
group,
which
you
know
as
you
would
expect.
Maybe
that's
where
it'd
be
now
I,
don't
know
there
may
be
a
rational
driving
the
way
it
is.
But
you
know
this
is
the
kind
of
conversation
we
can
have
if
we
have
the
good
a
good
representation
right,
but
exactly
it's
not
something
we
need
to
publish
to
the
world
and
say
this
is
how
we
organize,
because
that's
not
going
to
be
very
helpful
to
anybody
else.
Sorry
and.
A
At
a
minimum
we
probably
definitely
need
to
consider
renaming
a
couple
of
the
groups.
The
names
aren't
like
developer.
Best
practices
is
kind
of
self-explanatory,
but,
like
you
know,
security
threats
or
securing
critical
projects,
those
aren't
quite
as
useful
to
an
outsider
and
I
think
we
probably
could
go
through
and
do
a
little
rebranding
at
a
minimum,
but
I
think
there's
absolutely
opportunity
to
get
things
more
streamlined
and
efficient.
Because
you
know
scorecards
came
in
very
early
in
the
foundation's
history
and
that's
the
best
practices
group.
C
A
B
And
so,
by
the
way,
speaking
of
like
you
know,
the
kind
of
information
we
have
for
ourselves
to
work
on
internally
I
have
come
to
realize
that,
even
though
the
Mind
map
was
pretty
cool,
it's
not
necessarily
the
most
convenient
way
to
browse
through
all
the
information.
As
we
see
it,
quickly
gets
out
of
control
and
I
actually
realized
that
you
know
if
what
I
want
to
do
is
have
capture
whether
you
know
all
the
working
groups
have
a
child,
for
instance,
whether
it's
been
reviewed
or
proved
and
stuff
like
this.
B
A
good
old
table
actually
does
a
really
good
job
right
and
you
can
have
all
stuff
things.
You
know
I
actually
started
putting
together
a
table
like
this
and
I
was
like.
You
know
what
this
is
much
better,
because
you
can
sort
things
out
and
all
sorts
of
things
you
can
do
really
I
mean
what
you
want
is
some
form
of
database.
You
know
and
so
sort
of
a
true
database,
a
spreadsheet,
that's
pretty
well
yeah!
You
know.
A
B
And
you
can
do
all
sorts
of
mad
things,
you
just
add
columns,
you
say:
oh,
we
want
to
know.
If
they
have
an
external
website,
you
either
call
them
boom,
and
then
you
know
and
so
on.
So
it's
pretty
much
Limitless
and
it's
actually
much
more
compact.
This
is
a
way
of
looking
at
the
data.
That's
we're
all
used
to
and
how
you
find
it.
B
You
know,
like
I,
said:
I
spent
a
couple
of
hours
playing
with
the
x-mind
app,
but
at
the
end
I'm,
like
you
know
what
this
is
all
eye
candy,
but
it's
not
necessarily
the
most
convenient
I
think
mind.
Maps
actually
are
a
good
one.
You
don't
really
know
the
structure
and
you're
trying
to
figure
out
what
the
structure
is.
But
here
that's
not
the
case.
We
have
the
structure
and
we're
just
trying
to
put
in
a
graph
form
which
in
this
case
is
not
very.
It
does
look
kind
of
amazing,
but
you
know.
D
B
That's
indeed,
that's
part
of
why
that's
what
led
me
to
this
initially
I
was
like
yeah.
We
there's
like
different
layers.
I
want
to
see
right
and
and
I
think
that's
in
the
form
of
a
mind.
Map
doesn't
actually
allow
me
to
do
that
very
easily.
There
may
be
some
tools
that
do
that
that
we
haven't,
you
know,
found
or
played
with,
but,
as
we
know
with
tables,
this
is
something
you
can
easily
do.
A
Well
and
then,
as
you
saw,
the
information
can
get
very
dense
very
quickly
if
you're,
adding
tags
and
other
types
of
artifacts.
It
distracts
from
I
think
the
the
exercise
a
little
bit
but
yeah
I
I,
definitely
agree
table
spreadsheet
would
be
a
great
way
to
track
certain
aspects
of
what
we
were
starting
to
explore
with
the.
B
A
Is
an
outcome
we
would
like
to
have
okay,
the
fact
that
we've
done
some
work
and
I'm.
Basically,
two-fold
I
was
looking
for
some
direction
from
our
foundation
overlords
what
they
want,
how
they
want
to
describe
themselves,
but
then
two
I
was
hoping
to
drum
up
some
additional
participation.
You
know
Inspire
someone
to
come
help
us
do
some
drawings
and
you
know
continue
to
iterate
over
them,
but
yeah.
A
Just
helped
me
kind
of
synthesize
where
we
are
and
I
I
would
like
to
have
a
us
go
meet
with
the
attack
and
say
this
is
what
we
found
like
take
the
Mind
map,
for
example,
and
kind
of
dive
in
saying
all
this
stuff
is
inconsistent,
you
know
and
we're
just
trying
to
draw
a
picture,
but
we've
noticed
this
and
we
definitely
Outsiders
and
contributors,
and
everybody
else
is
more
confused
than
us.
What
can
we
do
about
it?
A
E
B
So
so
that's
not
what
I
meant
obviously
I'm
asking
what
it
would
take
to
see
the
little
prototype
of
I
think
yeah,
I
kind
of
like
the
diagram
that
the
crop
came
up
with
and
that
fits
naturally
in
the
landscape
kind
of
layout.
If
we
could
get
somebody
that
have
to
put
it
together,
it
doesn't
have
to
be
complete
just
a
subset
of
it.
Maybe
to
get
us
a
feeling
of
is
that
the
right
path
to
go
down
do.
B
E
Yeah
I
agree
and
actually
I
just
I.
Just
I
am
our
graphic
designer
one
of
our
graphic
designers
and
like
oh
look
at
this,
because
we
are
looking
at
revamping
our
slide
Decks
at
the
moment
and
I
think
that
would
be
a
perfect
replacement
for
one
of
the
slides.
We
have
now
that
roughly
lays
out
the
pieces
of
the
open
ssf,
but
not
in
a
very
visually
logical
way
or
appealing
way.
B
At
the
end
of
the
day
we
also
talked
about
you
know
the
Practical
matter
is
we
need
to
get
some
ways
to
deal
with
that
information.
You
know
with
tools
that
are
really
available,
that
let
us
maintain
this
over
time
and
fairly
easily,
and
so
I
think
you
know
if
we
could
leverage
that
tool.
Well,
then
so
much
the
better.
A
I
think
they
could
be
a
real,
quick
win.
We
would
just
need
I
picked
plan,
build
run
just
as
a
generic
kind
of
development
adjacent
thought
process,
but
we
could
pick
whatever
categories
you
wanted
and
Shuffle
things
around,
but
yeah,
I
I
think
the
landscape
tool
would
be
very
effective
and
be
very
quick
for
us
and
I
think
generally
low
maintenance.
Once
we
get
the
images
and
where.
B
So
Jennifer,
could
you
look
into
what
it
would
take
to
get
some
other
instance
than
the
website
for
us
to
play
around,
and
if
somebody
could
try
to
put
together
something
along
those
lines
and
like
I
said
it
doesn't
even
have
to
be
complete.
But
if,
for
like
the
next
meeting,
for
instance,
we
could
have
something
we
could
look
at.
That
would
be
cool.
E
A
A
A
B
B
A
C
C
Yeah
I
spent
most
of
my
time
and
and
Arnold
can
attest
to
this
as
well.
I
spend
most
of
my
time
in
these
meetings,
saying
hey
that
scene,
we're
talking
about
terms
and
definitions.
Well,
you
know
what
best
practices
is
working
on
the
terms
and
definitions
got.
Have
we
talked
to
them
to
see
if
they
have
this
trauma
definition?
Have
we
shared
that
back
and
forth
and
Arnold?
C
Please
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong
here,
what
I
always
get
back
is
well
we're
not
going
to
wait
on
them
for
a
term
and
definition
we're
going
to
do.
Maybe
they
can
come
to
us.
It's
like
well
God.
This
is
being
developed
in
the
openness
and
stuff,
and
these
terms
and
definitions
of
openness
and
stuff
terms
and
definitions
of
where
you
know
go
and
then,
of
course,
there's
a
whole
taxonomy
I
mean
I
can
go
on
and
on.
But
the
idea
is
now
I'm
saying
for
our
group.
C
If
we
build
it
right
and
then
present
it
and
say
this
is
a
central
place
to
come
and
get
this
information
and
still
be
off
and
say,
then
we
can
each
in
this
group
because
we
sit
everywhere.
We
can
take
this
with
us
everywhere.
We
go
maybe
say
hey
by
the
way
boom.
You
know
I
mean,
and
then
this
is
over
here.
I,
don't
know
I'm
I'm,
throwing
guards.
B
At
the
door
for
him,
no,
no
but
you're
you're
right
on
I
mean
you're.
Just
adding
you
know
to
what
we're
saying
and
with
the
crowd,
but
it's
exactly
right.
I
mean
this
gets
to
your
point.
It's
like!
Yes,
working
groups
could
be
or
working
group
members
I'll.
Definitely
you
know
part
of
the
Persona
we
want
to
address,
and
you
know
all
what
we're
talking
about
here
is
essentially
the
lack
of
you
know
clear
view
of.
What's
going
on.
B
C
C
C
If
we
looked
at
openness
and
stuff
like
a
holding
company,
and
then
we
looked
at
each
working
group
like
individual
llc's
under
this
holding
company,
it
seems
like
we
do
an
awful
lot
of
of
we
don't
even
we
do
a
lot
of
stuff
in
each
company,
but
we
don't
actually
have
a
business.
Why
don't
we
have
a
business
because
we
don't
want
to
do
the
administrative
stuff,
that's
required
to
run
the
business.
C
We
want
to
operate
the
business,
but
we
don't
want
to
run
the
business
right,
Pat
taxes
and
and
your
your
accounting
and
your
employee
stuff
and
your
things
like
that.
And
what
does
this
equate
to
end
users?
Working
group
just
had
some
that
working
group
has
been
in
existence
since
the
summer,
and
somebody
just
now,
probe
and
I
have
been
talking
about
this,
but
we're
both
spread
so
thin
that
getting
it
done.
Somebody
just
now
decided
to
do
something
with
the
repo.
C
Do
you
have
a
business
even
if,
if
the
business
is
not
formed
properly,
do
you
even
have
a
business?
If
it's
not
formed
right
right
whose
responsibility
is
that
and
whose
responsibility
is
it
then
to
make
sure?
Because
at
the
end
of
the
day,
if
we
consider
open
this
and
stuff
to
holding
company
and
all
these
LLCs
all
under
it?
Well
guess
who
has
to
file
the
taxes
on
behalf
of
each
respective
company
under
the
holding
company
holding
company
responsible
for
filing
those
taxes?
C
So,
ultimately
you
know
if
we're,
if
our
our
as
Pro
call
them
our
diagram
of
society
overlords
right.
If,
if
they're
going
to
file
the
taxes,
then
maybe
we
are
to
produce
something,
that's
an
accounting
that
all
the
other
llc's
need
to
funnel
information
into,
so
that
we
can
present
a
proper
balance
sheet
or
a
proper
bookkeeping
structure
to
the
overlords.
So
they
can.
A
Along
those
lines,
Jay
like
to
the
the
the
new
project,
that's
getting
spun
up
under
vulnerabilities
I've
been
trying
to
enforce
to
the
enthusiastic
members,
there's
a
certain
level
of
quality
and
decorum
and
representation
it.
We
have
when
we
say
we're
a
project
of
the
open
ssf,
and
you
know
you
might
have
an
amazing
idea
to
you.
But
if
you
piss
off
every
open
source
maintainer
and
they
blackball
the
open,
ssf.
C
A
C
A
So
I
think
I
will
influence
my
friends
on
the
attack
to
make
us
an
agenda
item
and
we
will
come.
Do
our
little
presentation
to
show
our
homework,
and
our
next
homework
is
that
last
page
of
the
slide,
deck
I
need
to
have
some
pointed
questions
or
demands
next
steps
from
what
we
would
like
to
see
out
of
the
attack
and
the
foundation.
And
that
can
be
you
know,
how
can
we
have
a
consistent
style
of
data
and
information
so
that
we
can
make
these
kind
of
more
business-like
choices?
A
I
think
the
GB
would
really
like
that.
If
we
had
that
report,
consistent,
reporting
and
I
think
we're
going
to
need
to
ultimately
get
some
assistance,
and
you
know
make
it
somebody's
job
to
help
out
with
a
lot
of
these
bookkeeping
things
to
get
us
straight,
and
that
might
be
a
short-term
thing,
but
it
might
be
a
full-time
job.
You
know,
I
spent
a
lot
of
time,
editing,
readme
files
for
the
pre-pose
I'm
associated
with.
C
So
I
I
thought
about
this.
A
lot
and
I
don't
even
know
how
to
approach
it
who
to
go
to
about
who
to
talk
about
I
I
really
have
no
idea,
but
I
really
do
believe
that
openness
and
stuff
is
getting
the
work
there
are.
A
lot
of.
There
are
a
couple
of
working
groups
that
are
still
incubating.
Yes,
they're
still
ripping
that
they
they
have
thoughts.
But
these
thoughts
are
not.
C
These
thoughts
are
not
even
ideas
are
not
even
conceptualized
yet
they're
they're
spitballing
outstanding,
but
as
they
begin
to
to
ramp
up
as
those
thoughts
become
ideas,
and
they
become
Concepts
in
this
POC,
the
stuff
that
we're
doing
on
a
industrial
on
the
industry
scale.
It's
going
to
get
so
big
that
we
almost
do
need
a
at
least
one
person,
a
program
manager
or
something
that
can
help
us
do
this,
and
it's
got
to
be
a
full-time
job.
A
C
A
B
I
think
the
the
Crux
of
the
problem
we've
been
talking
about
right
is
the
lack
of
some
formal
official
source
of
Truth
when
it
comes
to
what's
going
on
within
open
Assistant.
Yes
right,
this
is
what
we're
all
struggling
with
so
I
think
the
the
the
ask
that
I
would
have
to
the
tag
is
figure
it
out.
I,
don't
know
if
it
takes
somebody
to
be
hired.
B
Somebody
from
a
dlf
team
to
be
assigned
to
this
task,
I
mean
I,
have
to
say,
I,
think
it's
David
wheeler
did
a
lot
of
work,
trying
to
gather
some
of
this
information,
which
you
know
he
has
most
of
that
information
in
his
slides
and
to
some
extent,
at
least
in
the
attack
home
page.
You
have
two
tables
with
the
working
groups
and
the
projects
which,
from
what
I've
seen,
is
pretty
close
to
to
be
exact.
B
I,
don't
know
that,
that's
all
the
information
we
would
want
to
have,
but
so
I
think
you
know
formally,
we
should
have
one
place
which
goes
along
with
what
you
are
talking
about
or
your
jail.
So
it's
you
know
if
somebody
creates
a
new
project
seagull
whatever
they
should
have
one
spot
where
they
go
register
this
right,
so
that
we
everything
else
there
can
be
other
views
or
you
know,
or
the
representation
of
that
information
either
partially
or
you
know
in
different
ways
graphically
or
what,
but
we
have
to
have
a
source
of
Truth
somewhere.
A
D
A
D
Trying
very
that's
the
question:
how
do
we
obtain
governance
and
I?
Don't
know
I,
think
it's
gotten.
It's
gotten
too
big
to
not
have
processes
and
procedures
and
approvals,
and
it's
really
it's
it's
all
governance
and
that's
what
we're
asking
for
so
that
it's
consistent
and
that
you
know
I,
don't
know
exactly
what
the
process
is
to
spin
up
a
new
working
group,
but
working
groups
need
to
you
know,
be
a
substantial
thing
that
is
being
driven
by
something
versus
just.
You
know
a
potential
idea.
D
D
C
B
Yeah,
if
you're
going
to
attack
repository,
there
is
a
governance.
You
know
folder
and
you'll
find
all
sorts
of
information
about
the
life
cycle
of
working
groups
and
projects
and
seeks
and
whatnot
and
the
problem
is.
We
went
through
quite
a
bit.
You
know,
effort
to
put
that
together,
but
the
attack
has
not
implemented
it
right.
B
D
C
C
C
You
have
to
get
on
the
inside
and
hopefully
do
something
about
it.
I
think
that's
as
far
as
I'm
going
to
go
with
that
comment.
I
think
that
if
you,
if
you're
paying
attention
you,
you
know
why
the
rules
haven't
been.
The
rules
haven't
been
haven't
been
followed,
but
all
you
can
do
is
is
put
up
the
flag,
but
then
say:
okay,
now
that
we're
here,
let's
dig
in
and
see
if
we
can
influence
or
direct
somehow
towards
a
situation
that
benefits
everyone
involved.
I
I
did
I
do
that
right
did
I
did
I.
C
B
B
Well,
this
organization
needs
guidance
and
there's
a
much
governance,
and
the
problem
is
changing
as
you
go
is
hard,
because
some
people
at
least
fear
that
we're
going
to
upset
the
groups,
the
people
that
are
volunteering
their
time
and
so
oh,
if
we
put
too
much
administrative
burden,
you
know
they're
gonna,
run
away
and
say:
well,
then
I
don't
play
here
anymore
and
I.
Think
a
lot
of
this
is
displaced.
In
my
opinion,
I've
been
through
this
quite
a
few
times
in
my
life,
and
you
know,
as
long
as
people
understand.
A
And
I
think
we
also
have
the
reverse
of
your
problem
and
Arno
that,
yes,
we
potentially
could
scare
away
the
existing
volunteers,
but
we
also
could
hold
the
governing
board
accountable
for
ponying
up
people.
They
have
committed
that
this
is
important
to
their
organizations
and
the
Indus
ecosystem.
They
need
to
help
provide
us
some
more
volunteers,
yeah.
B
A
A
And
I
in
the
attack
means
well
but
they're.
Just
there
isn't
a
lot
of
administer
they're,
not
administrative
support.
There
just
isn't
a
lot
of
program
management
support
and
all
the
TAC
members
are
also
volunteers,
yes
and
I.
Think
if
we
bring
this
to
their
attention
and
say
you
know
this
little,
this
small
band
of
Heroes
is
interested
in
helping
that
potentially
we
can
help
Drive
some
positive
change
and
get
a
little
bit
more
structure.
A
It
doesn't
need
to
be
a
a
fortune,
five
Enterprise,
with
a
change
management
board
and
all
this
other
stuff,
but
we
do.
We
would
definitely
benefit
for
some
structure,
some
discipline
and
some
governance.
You
know-
and
maybe
we
need
to
spin
up
a
project
to
get
a
dashboard
to
show
here's
all
here's
the
qualities
that
Arno
was
tracking
in
this
table
that
we
require
from
a
working
group
who's
got
that
who
doesn't
okay.
A
C
B
Mean
a
while
ago
in
attack
actually
started
saying:
hey
working
groups,
you
guys
need
to
get
a
charter
I've
been
in
workings
with
people
like.
Please
help
us
we're
happy
to
do
whatever
it
takes
to
get
to
try
right.
So
it's
not
necessary
that
they
don't
want
to.
They
just
don't
know
what
they're
supposed
to
do
so.