►
From YouTube: The Higher Education Revolution #5
Description
Previous podcast: https://youtu.be/n-1Vv5FPlL4
Rob and Jesse discuss Trump University, Rob interviews Laura H. Gilbert about her book "Our Plan: A Family-Centered Approach to Paying for College" and more. Daniël's not here this week.
Get "Our Plan: A Family-Centered Approach to Paying for College" here: http://www.amazon.com/Our-Plan-Family-Centered-Approach-College/dp/1493678183
Watch the full interview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUM1Lb1ASGg
--
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A
Hi,
my
name
is
Rob
skiff.
This
is
high
red
revolution
5
and
today
we're
discussing
my
interview
with
Laura
Gilbert,
who
wrote
the
book
our
plan,
a
family-centered
approach
to
paying
for
college
will
also
be
discussing
a
little
bit
more
about
Burlington
College
Jess
he'll.
Give
us
some
updates
and
I'll
also
be
discussing
not
a
little
bit
of
Trump
University
in
the
controversy.
That's
a
building
there
so
Jesse.
How
was
your
week
week.
B
Was
good,
I
did
publish
a
new
piece
on
medium,
it
is
called.
Let
me
just
call
it
the
exact
title.
It
is
called
to
educators
what
learning
content
and
community
would
you
build
if
the
sky
were
your
limit,
I
sort
of
took
this
away
from
the
conversation
that
I
had
with
Debbie
danske
and
the
final
question
that
I
had
asked,
because
what
would
you
build
if
you?
B
If,
if
you
could
do
anything
and
how
would
you
begin
to
build
a
community
around
it
and
she
pauses
didn't
you
know
she
thought
and
that's
kind
of
how
I
introduce
the
article
it's
you
know,
that's
a
very
beautiful
question
to
be
asked.
You
know
if
you
can
do
anything
based
on
the
needs
of
the
people
that
you
work
with
and
your
peers.
Even
you
know
what
would
you
do
and
why-
and
it
generally
provides
some
very
thoughtful
insight
as
to
where
learning
needs
to
go.
B
You
know,
and
it
speaks
a
lot
to
the
mission
of
a
planner
which
is
you
know
we
are
an
open
learning
community.
We
welcome
content,
we
value
not
only
teachers
but
students,
contributions
to
what
that
content
is
and
what
it
can
become,
and
I
just
really
want
to
get
that
conversation
started
in
earnest.
My
hope
with
this
first
piece
is
that
it
is
a
series
of
articles,
the
second
one,
being
a
sort
of
an
indication,
the
second
one
being
a
you
know
an
inquiry
with
students.
B
You
know
if
they
can
be
a
part
of
any
Clarion
Community.
What
would
it
be?
How
would
they
contribute
to
it?
Where
would
that
learning
take
place?
You
know
and
then
the
same
goes
for
any
sort
of
organizational
or
community-based
learning.
You
know
there's
a
lot
of
sort
of
coordinated
learning
that
we
need
to
do
you
know,
sort
of
collective
social
purposes
or
collective
skill
sets
that
we
may
want
to
build
upon.
B
You
know
so
to
begin
having
those
community
of
those
conversations
with
students,
I
think
will
be
incredibly
important
to
think
about.
You
know
what
humans
that
are
designed
around.
Our
idea
of
the
future
of
a
player
know
is,
and
can
become.
So
that's
where
my
head
is
at.
Does
that?
Does
that
that's
great
inside
any
questions?
Robert
Cummings,
yeah.
A
I
mean
we've
talked
a
bit
about.
You
know
what
we're!
What
we're
really
trying
to
do
is
change
the
dynamic
in
terms
of
you
know
placing
student
teachers
at
the
center,
but
also
the
needs
of
communities
in
terms
of
defining
their
learning,
and
that
is
a
very
different
thing
than
what
is
happening
at
you
know,
traditional
universities
and
that's
a
great
segue
actually
to
my
interview
with
dr.
Laura
Gilbert,
her
book,
which
is
called
our
plan,
a
family-centered
approach
to
paying
for
college.
A
Now
you
hear
about
it
in
the
interview,
but
this
is
this
n
cringe
book
on
which
we
talked
about
three
weeks
ago
that
deals
with
just
with
adjuncts.
Our
plan
is
about
paying
for
college
and
figuring
out
the
ROI,
the
return
on
the
investment
that
you're
making
and
also
making
sure
that
you
don't
get
trapped
into
a
cycle
of
debt,
but
you'll
hear
about
it
in
the
interview.
So
tell
me
a
little
bit
about
how
you
know.
A
We
had
crin
on
two
weeks
ago
talking
about
why
the
sort
of
the
structures
that
are
making
higher
ed
increase
its
level
of
level
of
debt
and
cost,
and
you
you
also
talk
a
little
bit
about
that
a
lot
less
though.
What
do
you
think
God
is
that
are
the
factors
that
are
really
driving
up
the
cost
and
higher
ed.
When
you
take
a
look
at
it,
you
hint,
you
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
different
benefits
that
the
financial
institutions,
and
also
actually
the
US
government
is,
is
is
having
with
it.
C
Well,
I
think
that
there
are
a
lot
of
different
entities
making
making
money
on
my.
My
approach
is
really
a
I
I
Tenten
I
spent
a
year
trying
to
run
down
that
path
and
I.
Answer
that
question
and
I,
because
I
figured.
If
I
could
answer
that
question
then
I
could
identify
where
the
issue
was
and
then
I
could
work
on
fixing
that
on
thinking
about
how
can
we
fix
that?
Not
that
I
can
fix
it,
but
that
I?
C
Could
you
know
as
a
policy
analyst,
I
could
start
working
on
that
on
and
that's
when
I
realized
that
it's
it's
way
too
big.
It's
got
too
many
pieces,
so
I
try
to
talk
about
that.
Just
a
tiny
bit
at
the
beginning
of
the
book
on
and
one
of
the
I
think
one
of
the
core
issues
is
that
on
there
are
so
many,
but
one
of
the
core
issues
is
that
things
have
fundamentally
changed
in
the
last
twenty
twenty-five
years
on,
and
so
the
premise
for
on
for
a
lot
of
Education
is
different
than
it.
C
C
Is
there
a
significant
huge
major,
major
difference
in
that
degree
and
what
you
come
out
with
not
I
would
say
not
as
much
as
we
kind
of
thought
back
then,
especially
when
you
compare
now
too
many
many
many
of
the
colleges
that
have
such
that
are
just
have
their
just
egregious
in
the
terms
of
quality,
so
where
the
quality
was.
Maybe
this
big,
the
differential
was
maybe
this
big
20
years
ago.
The
quality
differential
now
is
is
tremendous,
and
so
you've
got
all
sorts
of
people
on
going
to
get
that
degree.
C
Because
there's
all
of
this,
this
fear-
and
this
this
we
must
have
and
and
I
pressure
from
all
sides
to
to
earn
these
credentials.
But
at
the
same
time
there
are
so
many
things
happening
that
are
affecting
the
quality
of
the
of
the
diploma,
that,
whereas
20
years
ago
and
sorry
I,
know
I'm
kind
of
scattered.
But
that's
kind
of
how
this
thing
is.
C
C
A
Used
to
buy
hey
if
I
you
know,
oh
I,
went
to
middle
barrier,
I
went
to
Yale
or
Boden
or
Stanford,
you
know,
or
on
mcallister
great
school
on
Minnesota
that
that
meant
something
now
does
it
I
mean
for
most
of
us
we're
not
going
to
be
going
to
those
institutions.
Does
it
really
mean
anything
anymore,
except
for
that
very
small
percentage
of
people
who
go
there?
Okay?
Does
it
really
make
a
difference?
What's
your
sense,
I
think.
C
A
But
they're
going
to
be
because
they
cost
more
I
mean
the
mercedes-benz
is
a
neat
car.
Okay,
yeah
I!
Don't
want
to
use
a
mercedes-benz
all
the
time.
Okay,
I
want
to
use
it.
You
know
a
Subaru
available
or
Ford
will
work
just
as
well.
That
were
kind
of
be
the
point
you
hint
a
bit
at
that
you
know.
What's
the
purpose
of
your
spending
the
money,
what's
your
long-term
goal
and
does
the
cost
really
match
what
you're
going
to
be
making
at
the
end,
yeah.
C
And
I
would
say
not
even
just
the
cost,
but
the
whole
thing.
Like
I
love
your
analogy.
They
are
one
that
I
used
recently
at
a
presentation
I
did
with
a
group
of
high
school
students
and
their
parents
was
I.
I
said
you
already
know
how
to
do
the
kind
of
shopping
that
you
need
to
do
for
college
on
and
I
said.
Let's
say
you
want
to
buy
footwear.
C
What's
the
first
thing
you
need
to
know,
you
know
and
at
first
they're
silence
and
then
somebody,
you
know
eventually
will
say
what's
what
size
or
what
is
this
a
boot?
Or
is
this
a
dress
shoe
for
the
prom,
and
so
that's
the
first
step,
I
think
the
first
step
that
we
wear
the
first
step
used
to
be
gettin
to
go
to
the
best
college.
You
can
get
into
don't
worry
about
the
money
because
you'll
make
it
all
back
later
and
that
formula
you.
C
It
worked
until
about
the
until
the
mid-1990s,
and
maybe
even
if
for
a
few
years
after
that,
but
a
lot
of
today's
parents
went
to
school
themselves
in
the
80s
and
90s
and
they're
thinking
they're
still
using
that
model,
they're
thinking
that
that
model
still
exists
it
doesn't
it
might
in
rare,
like
you
said
in
some
rare
circumstances,
but
that's
not
the
risk
formula
that
you
can
use
any
more
to
me.
The
first
question
in
deciding
that
that
whole
investment
risk
cost
benefit
formula
is
what
do
you
want
the
college
to
do?
C
A
A
A
What
I
want
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
is
so
my
move
is
pretty
much
completed.
I
talked
a
little
bit
about
that
last
week
and
now
the
international
headquarters
are
located
in
a
slightly
different
location
about
a
mile
and
a
half
from
where
they've
been,
but
all
the
thousand
books
are
now
up
in
the
bookshelves
and
next
meeting
we're
going
to
be
having
you'll
get
to
see
that
whole
whole
setup,
which
is
going
to
be
fun.
A
A
couple
of
other
things
that
I
want
to
chat
about
is
trumping
University
and
Jesse,
and
I
are
going
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
that.
Trump
University
is
really
the
interesting.
It's
you
know,
building
its
presence
in
terms
of
the
presidential
campaigns
in
the
US
and
I.
Think
it's
a
really
excellent
example
of
how
not
to
behave
in
both
online
education,
for-profit
education,
so
I
want
to
go
over
a
couple
of
points
about
that
that
I
wrote
down.
A
One
is
that
Donald
Trump's
educational
programs
were
never
approved
or
accredited
by
a
state,
and
he
appropriated
the
term
university
when
he
should
never
have
used
it.
While
some
states
have
different
laws
about
who
what
you
can
call
in
terms
of
a
college
or
a
university,
it's
really
really
important
that
those
laws
be
tightened
up
and
they're.
Not
not.
Everybody
is
able
to
use
the
that
only
accredited
institutions
and
really
I
think
preferably
regionally.
Accredited
institutions
can
use
the
term
on
the
university
so
that
there
isn't
the
the
confusion
now
remember.
A
A
plane
is
an
approved
institution
by
the
state
of
Vermont.
We
don't
call
ourselves
a
porno
College,
okay,
because
we're
not
offering
degree
programs
we
do
have
certificates,
but
to
put
the
name
college
or
university
on
an
organization
when
you're
not
offering
a
degree
is
really
not
okay,
Jesse
you
got
anything.
You
want
to
add
with
that.
Yeah.
B
I
mean
I
think
it's
incredibly
I
think
it's
interesting
to
hear
this
and
then
now
see
it
play
out,
and
you
feat
you
you
almost
feel
like
that
should
be
obvious
to
people
that
there
is
a
there's
a
standard
at
play
here,
and
you
know
perhaps
it's
not
surprising
that
Trump
has
sort
of
circumvented
some
of
these
standards
and
sort
of
approaches
things
in
his
own
and
in
his
own
way,
with
his
own
rhetoric.
Attacking
him,
for
this
I
mean
he's
already
threatened
to
sue
people
for
sort
of
Miss
characterizing.
B
The
failure
of
Trump
University
but
I
feel
like
in
a
way
it
also.
It
also
drags
us
a
lot
of
trumps
points
to
further
away
from
a
more
holistic
perspective
of
a
topic
like
education
and
one
that
is
okay.
If,
if
there
is
some
need
to
have
a
standard
around
word
college
or
university
and
the
ability
to
use
it,
where
can
other
learning
happen?
Yeah.
A
That's
a
really
I
mean
there
are
a
couple
things.
What
exactly
was
Trump
teaching
in
terms
of
the
curriculum
and
the
idea
so
I
think
he
trump
university
is
also
an
example
of
what's
happening
in
on
and
a
lot
of
high
red,
both
accredited
and
unaccredited,
and
that
Trump
promised
that
you
know
you're
going
to
learn
the
secrets
of
his
how
he
makes
money
in
real
estate.
Not
only
did
he
not
develop
the
curriculum
himself
he
didn't
follow
through
is
sort
of
offering
any
secrets
he
was
using.
A
A
I
would
say
that
what
Trump
University
is
doing
is
what
a
lot
of
institutions
in
higher
odd
also
do
they're
kind
of
like
promising
a
dream:
okay
in
exchange
that
the
name
or
that
they're
going
to
you're,
going
to
learn
certain
techniques
and
then
you're
going
to
be
able
to
cash
in
on
it,
without
really
showing
any
proof
that
it's
going
to
improve
your
life
or
improve
your
arm.
Your
skill
in
your
job
or
it's
a
little
bit
fraudulent
in
terms
of
what
they
are.
A
That
he
has
it's
yet
another
example
of
the
for-profit
industry
being
fraudulent
in
terms
of
educational
results,
and
that
really
makes
the
innovation
that
we're
trying
to
do
here
even
more
difficult,
because,
because
we're
an
LLC
we're
a
for-profit,
it
instantly
puts
us
in
cast
us
in
the
same
light
as
Trump
you,
even
though,
the
what
we're
trying
to
do
when
the
operations
are
completely
different,
so
yeah.
What
what
how's
odd
you
know
are
we
going
to
come
to
blows
Jesse
when
we
finally
get
to
have
that
beer
together
in
the
you
know,.
B
I
I
entire
I
agree
with
that
perspective.
I
mean
I,
have
two
degrees,
one
as
an
MA
and
one
is.
It
is
a
BBA
and
I
feel
you
know
you
have
to.
Nowadays
you
have
to
qualify
those
degrees
more
than
they
stand
as
a
standalone
sort
of
phrase
or
byline
on
your
resume,
and
so
that
speaks
to
where
we're
going
by
itself.
You
know
so,
while
I
think
you
can
get
some
good
quality
classes,
which
you
said
and
you
can,
you
can
even
find
some
good.
You
know
sort
of
quality,
package,
programs
and
universities.
B
While
that's
true,
it's
not
the
only
way
of
going
about
it.
No
and
I
think
we
as
society
and
debt
and
obviously
students
and
I-
think
students
are
probably
going
to
be
the
more
innovative
approach
to
a
bunch
out
there,
probably
the
more
receptive
to
our
message
at
it
with
the
point
0,
but
we
need
to
think
about
why
we
are
pushing
kids
in
that
direction,
because
there's
a
lot
of
pressure
at
stake
there.
B
You
know,
and
we
make
the
money
easy
to
get
in
a
way
and
not
really
thinking
about
like
we
have
typically
tended
to
do
as
a
society
go
long-term
repercussions
of
building
up
those
piles
that
they
each
be
good.
You
know,
and
and
obviously
for-profit
universities
that
are
tarnishing
the
image
of
for-profit
like
Trump.
You
know,
like
dare
I,
say
Phoenix
in
some
cases
or
any
of
the
other
ones
that
have
been
in
the
in
the
in
the
news
headlines
for
their
inability
to
graduate
students
in
a
meaningful
way.
B
A
Yeah
we're
going
to
be
talking
a
little
bit
more
about
debt.
You
know
we're
really
working
at
a
planner
on
three
aspects:
one
better
learning
for
better
learning
and
classes
for
students,
okay,
where
you
can
choose
the
classes
and
the
instructors
that
you
that
you
want
then
other
pieces,
the
social
justice
aspect
of
instructors
getting
paid
what
they
need
to
and
crim
wrote
on
that.
Okay,
hers
is
the
book
to
read.
A
If
you
want
to
understand
what
it's
like
is
to
deal
with
the
adjunct
crisis
and-
and
you
know
the
whole
the
student
that
piece
but
then
you've
got
you
know,
Laura's
book,
you
know
and
the
interview
that
we
just
did
and
you've
got
to
buy.
That
book
again
go
to
the
links
here
and
you
can
purchase
those
books
from
amazon
com
and
that
book
dealing
with
a
guide
to
prevent
getting
into
debt
and
next
week,
I'm
going
to
be
talking
a
lot.
A
I'm
gonna,
I'm
gonna,
be
talking
about
debt
and
its
impact
on
people's
lives
and
how
we've
just
we've
gone
from
a
society
where
we
own
things:
okay,
to
a
society
where
we're
in
debt
and
and
who
is
actually
benefiting
from
our
labor.
And
it's
really
that
piece
that
debt
thing
is
becoming
a
social
justice
issue
in
north
america,
in
the
US,
but
also
while
latin
america,
african
nation,
developing
countries
dealing
with
and
that
type
of
exploitation.
C
Yes,
we've
got
this
huge
crisis
in
higher
ed,
but
you
don't
hey
I,
believe
that
people
don't
have
to
succumb
to
it
and
there
are
different
ways
that
each
person
can
can
use
to
do
that.
Well,
why
are
the
things
that
surprised
me
doing?
That
kind
of
work
is
that
some
of
the
most
conservative
voices,
to
my
mind,
are
from
the
student.