►
From YouTube: Audit Committee - July 4, 2019
Description
Agenda and background materials can be found at http://www.ottawa.ca/agendas.
A
Good
afternoon,
everyone
but
Mme
t-too
mode,
welcome
to
the
Audit
Committee
meeting
for
Thursday
July
4th
game
new
committee.
Identificación
pull
the
catalyst
yeah.
All
members
are
here.
So,
let's
get
to
the
agenda
any
declarations
of
interests,
seeing
none
confirmation.
Two
minutes,
there's
two:
the
public
meeting
of
May
29th,
are
those
carried.
Thank
you
in
the
confidential
minutes
that
you
will
have
received
on
the
pink
sheets.
Are
they
carried?
A
Thank
you
very
much
Missy,
and
so
yes,
please
to
the
to
the
yeah.
Please
return
the
pink
sheets
to
the
coordinator.
If
you're,
if
you're
done
with
them,
Thank
You
councillor
hubli,
we
have
four
items
on
today's
agenda:
kakastico
a
leisure
into
jewelry,
all
of
them
have
presentations
and
so
there's
no
consent
agenda.
And
thus
we
will
start
with
item
number
one
and
if
I
could
start
with
asking
vice-chair
million
to
introduce
a
motion.
A
B
You
chair,
whereas
the
supporting
documentation,
titled
office
of
the
Auditor
General
investigation
of
OC
Transpo
clothing
allowance
was
not
circulated
with
the
agenda
package.
Therefore,
it
be
resolved
that
the
Audit
Committee
approved
the
addition
of
this
document
for
consideration
by
the
committee
at
today's
meeting,
pursuant
to
section
89
three
of
the
procedure,
bylaw
being
bylaw
number
twenty
19-8.
C
Monsieur
le
président,
Amonte
committee
good
afternoon,
mr.
chair
and
members
of
the
committee,
all
three
news
of
ultra
report
to
present
a
which
killed
a
cool
day,
seniors
marceline
director,
freddy
deeb,
you
when
an
Quetzal
allocation
to
be
marked,
OC
Transpo
in
examines
the
program,
did
it
deborah
module
jones
when
on
capture
an
incident
of
algae
foam?
If
in
Alma,
the
report
annual
diamond
is
with
salal
indirect
Authority
build
today.
Mr.
chair,
we
have
three
reports
and
these
three
reports
we
were
presenting.
C
Mr.
Lee
merci
Monsieur
Lee,
please
lean
on
LoCascio
Labine
Martin.
A
vote
has
negotiated
on
a
commercial,
collective
cochlear,
avec
Leigh
Ostin,
scheduled
to
live
in
the
ratio
of
extra
candy,
Cindy
Kass
or
a
cheaper
and
commercial
collective.
This
distinct
honor
on
a
rock
up
a
liquor
prepaid
the
marks
OC
a
panic
up.
Cashier.
He
saw
provision
a
so
know.
They
sold
relatively
Aquino
it
a
disagree,
Pam
a
Sultan's
employee.
Does
he
transport
minor
verification,
Olajuwon
presented
a
set
rapport?
D
Thank
You
mr.
chair,
this
report
is
the
investigation
of
the
OC
Transpo
clothing
allowance,
and
these
were.
Concerns
were
raised
through
a
fraud
and
waste
hotline
report,
and
the
concerns
related
to
three
parts.
First
was
that
the
there
was
a
clothing
allowance
that
was
being
distributed,
and
it
we
should
have
been
a
taxable
benefit
that
the
eligibility
of
employees
receiving
the
call
the
building
holding
allowance
was
in
question,
as
well
as
questions
over
controls
over
the
distribution
of
the
prepaid
curds.
D
D
Our
objectives
again
were
to
determine
if
the
prepaid
card
clothing
allowance
should
have
been
considered.
A
taxable
benefit
to
assess
whether
the
employees
receiving
the
clothing
allowance
were,
in
fact
eligible
and
to
assess
controls
over
purchasing,
distributing
and
safeguarding
the
prepaid
cards.
D
Since
that
time,
in
October
of
2018
OC
Transpo
discontinued
the
use
of
the
prepaid
cards,
and
so
now
there
they
actually
are
paid
by
cash
source
or
through
payroll
as
part
of
their
pay,
and
therefore
our
scope
was
expanded
to
2019.
So
we
could
test
the
new
process
for
employees
to
make
sure
that
those
boys
who
received
the
clothing
allowance
in
2019
or
indeed
eligible.
D
D
Then
we
looked
at
the
employees
who
received
it
and
we
found
no
evidence
that
ineligible
were
employees
receive
the
clothing
allowance
in
2019.
The
allegations
were
that
they
came
in
our
report
was
that
a
significant
number
of
ineligible
employees
who
had
received
the
prepaid
cards
when
we
looked
at
the
criteria
for
which
employees
are
eligible
for
the
annual
clothing
allowance?
We
go
back
to
the
their
respective
collective
agreements
and
we
did
note
that
the
positions
listed
in
one
of
the
one
of
the
agreements.
D
This
is
the
ATU
1760
agreement
and
they
identify
the
the
clothing
allowance,
the
positions
that
are
eligible
for
clothing
allowance,
but
they're
not
identical
to
the
current
titles
of
the
positions.
Therefore,
OC
Transpo
management
uses
their
judgment
to
de
Triana
Phi,
which
current
positions
correspond
to
those
to
those
positions
that
are
set
out
in
the
collective
agreement,
and
although
we
found
that
the
positions
that
they
give
the
allowance
to
could
reasonably
linked
back
to
the
collective
agreement,
there's
still
some
judgment
involved
and
as
such,
there
could
be
allegations
of
favoritism
or
inconsistent
treatment
of
employees.
D
We
tested
the
eligibility
of
a
sample
of
the
employees
who
received
the
allowance
in
2019
and
other
than
the
potential
source
of
confusion
about
some
of
those,
a
tu
1760
positions.
We
found
Noah
in
eligible
employees
and,
lastly,
we
looked
at.
We
found
that
the
controls
related
to
the
distribution
of
the
prepaid
cards
are
really
no
longer
relevant
at
the
time
I
say
they
were,
they
had
been
distributing
the
prepaid
cards
and
that
had
since
switched
so
because
it
was
discontinued.
D
A
E
E
Right
now,
I
just
want
to
thank
you
very
much
for
the
report.
It's
good
to
know
that
this
is
being
watched.
It
seems
like
a
it's.
You
know
not
a
huge
thing,
but
it's
still
important
to
to
make
sure
that
dollars
are
spent
well.
My
question
is
in
regards
to
other
departments:
I
mean
OC
Transpo
employees
are
treated
separately,
but
are
there
similar
arrangements
with
the
city
in
terms
of
same
needs
in
terms
of
clothing
allowance?
Was
it
treated
the
same.
C
Mr.
chair,
through
you,
there
are
some
similar
arrangements
in
with
with
other
unions,
similar
benefits,
and
there
are
different
practices
in
different
different
places.
The
the
intent
from
our
recommendations
and
from
the
work
that
we've
done
is
that
the
principles
that
we've
identified
would
be
applicable
elsewhere
and
would
be
picked
up
by
management
I
just.
A
B
Me
and
please
the
reason
that
you
audit
did.
This
was
because
there
was
a
complaint
that
people
were
concerned,
that
people
who
were
ineligible
we're
getting
the
cards
you've
concluded
that
no
one
ineligible
received
the
the
gift
cards
is.
Is
that
true?
And
and
how
can
you
determine
if
it's
that
is
in
fact
the
case.
C
Mr.
Sherr
threw
you
to
the
counselor
the
you're
right.
The
allegation
was
that
the
that
the
control
over
the
cards
wasn't
adequate,
that
there
were
individuals
who
weren't
eligible
who
were
receiving
the
cards
and
that
there
was
favoritism
being
shown
by
the
individuals
who
were
distributing
the
cards
when
we
went
in
the
distribution
of
the
gift
cards
had
already
taken
place
and
management
had
indicated
that
they
were.
They
were
going
to
change
the
approach
that
they
would
use
in
the
future.
C
So
the
the
first
thing
that
they
did
is
they
indicated
that
they
would
change
their
process
and
ensure
that
the
taxable
benefit
was
was
applied
in
2018,
and
that
happened
and,
as
mr.
minor
pointed
out
because
of
the
allegations
that
were
made
about
ineligible
individuals
receiving
the
cards,
we
looked.
We
expanded.
We
extended
our
scope
to
2019
and
tested
the
2019
process,
the
new
one
that
was
introduced
and
other
than
the
confusion
around
some
of
the
job
titles.
C
We
found
no
indication
that
that
in
eligibility
gift
cards
it
received
this
this
payment
in
2019,
but
because
of
the
controls
or
lack
thereof
of
the
previous
process,
it
wasn't
possible
for
us
to
to
audit
it
and
say
one
way
or
the
other.
Whether
in
that
were
whether
ineligible
employees
received
gift
cards
is.
C
C
B
C
Mr.
chair
I
know,
I
would
have
to
defer
to
management,
and
I
would
also
have
to
point
out
that
in
in
some
instances
the
work
activity
of
some
staff,
their
work
is
harder
on
their
on
their
material
on
their
their
boots
and
their
their
uniforms.
That
would
be
in
in
other
activities.
So
thank
you.
Mr.
Hughes.
F
You
mr.
chair,
just
following
up
on
counselor
means
point
before
we
accidentally
create
an
impression
that
also
transport
employees
maybe
are
abusing
this
system.
Is
it
not
a
part
of
the
collective
agreement
that
the
the
clothing
allowance
is
good
for
I
think
two
years,
if
their
shirts
get
room,
for
example,
and
have
to
buy
more,
they
do
that
at
their
own
expenses
that
not
correct
they're
not
issued
extra
cards
if
something
if
their
uniform
gets
ruined
or
whatever
it's
it's
on
them
after
this?
Is
that
not
correct
or
is.
D
That
better
does
that,
but
you
don't
know
the
answer.
We
double
check
with
the
Sturm
and
Kony
I'm,
not
sure,
but
my
understanding
is
certainly
that
that
yeah,
they
have
certain
responsibilities
for
work,
clothing
and
I,
say
if
the
if
the
clothing
gets
torn
it's
up
to
them
to
replace
it.
Part
of
the
benefit
is
for
safer,
we're
clothing.
Part
of
it
is
for
safety
equipment
like
boots
and.
F
F
And
from
a
taxpayer
perspective,
would
it
not
be
more
expensive
if,
like
some
operations,
have
you
know
a
shop
within
the
garage
or
whatever
that
keep
all
the
uniforms
I
and
various
sizes?
And
you
go
there
and
you
get
your
shirt?
Would
that
not
be
a
whole
lot
more
expensive
for
the
OC
Transpo
operation
than
to
go
this
way?
Mr.
C
B
F
G
D
G
A
H
Thank
You
mr.
chair
they're,
their
mandatory
safety
clothing
that
you
need
to
wear
to
show
up
to
work
and
to
be
blunt,
if
you
don't
have
the
equipment
you're
not
getting
paid
that
day,
you
get
sent
home.
So
there
are
no
loopholes.
There
are
no
gaps.
The
auditor-general
didn't
find
any
gaps.
We've
we've
got
the
validation
list
with
with
payroll
and
for
this
particular
work
unit
gone
are
the
days
where
we
have.
You
know
an
expensive
internal
operation
where
you're
managing
stores
operations
and
handing
out
work
boots
and
so
forth.
H
H
A
Thank
you,
the
mr.
otter
general.
While
the
program
was
discontinued
and
no
ineligible
employees
receive
the
cards,
were
you?
Can
you
not
comment
on
the
control
within
OC
Transpo
as
to
how
those
cards
were
distributed?
Did
the
amounts
concur?
The
number
of
cards
distributed
concur
with
the
number
of
employees
on
the
payroll
for
that
particular
unit
or
mr.
mayor.
D
Yeah,
we
sure
we
we
did
do
some
preliminary
work
in
that
area.
But
again
when
the
process
was
changing,
we
we
stopped
that
work.
So
we
didn't
really
come
to
a
complete
conclusion.
We
talked
to
some
people,
we
got
some
sheets
and
had
signatures
on
them,
and
but
we
didn't
try
to
do
a
reconciliation,
a
detail,
reconciliation
of
the
cards
that
have
been
received
and
the
value
of
them
and
the
amount
purchased.
We
didn't
complete
that
work.
A
Okay,
thank
you
now
that
the
amount
is
just
given
to
the
employee
on
their
payroll
and
they
can
get
the
appropriate
safety
equipment
anywhere.
Just
as
a
matter
of
of
governance
did
since
we
were
de
facto
sending
people
to
Marx
to
buy
that
safety
equipment,
did
we
buy
those
gift
cards
at
the
nominal
face
value,
or
did
we
get
any
sort
of
a
discount
given
that
we
were
sending
Marx
a
good
amount
of
business
and
my
follow-up
question
will
be:
how
were
they
chosen
and
why
was
Marx
chosen
I.
H
I'm
just
looking
to
see
if
anybody
from
finances
here
I
will
say
this
from
my
many
years
at
this
stuff.
The
tax
rules
change
regularly
and
there
are
interpretations
that
you
have
to
make.
I
know
if
marion
Similac
was
here,
she'd
be
able
to
answer
that
question:
okay,
very
quickly,
so
I
again
I,
don't
I,
don't
think
there
were
gaps,
I
think
there
were
changes
in
the
environment
and
we've
addressed
them.
As
the
Auditor
General
I
said,
yeah.
A
And
that
I
do
understand
I
think,
though
those
rules
have
been
in
place
for
a
long
time
and
I'm
just
following
up
with
a
new
fitness,
counselor
Cavanaugh,
her
counsel,
to
me
and
in
other
city
departments.
If
there
is
a
clothing
allowance,
are
they
being
treated
appropriately
within
the
payroll
system
and
within
the
on
employees?
T
fours.
H
Mr.
chair,
the
you
know,
the
most
obvious
ones
is
clothing.
Allowance
would
be
our
emergency
services
and
they
have
arrangements
also
that
are
built
in
their
collective
agreements,
as
the
other
general
said
in
terms
of
how
they
receive
their
their
clothing.
Some
run
point
some
are
by
value,
then
there's
all
kinds
of
rule
so
now
I'm
not
I,
don't
have
the
familiarity
off
the
top
of
my
head
quite
frank,
because
I've
been
removed
for
it
from
from
awhile,
but
it's
something.
A
You,
mr.
city
manager,
seeing
no
more
questions,
is
the
Audit
Committee
receiving
this.
The
investigation
of
the
clothing
allowance
and
recommend
that
counsel
consider
and
approve
the
report
recommendations.
Is
that
carried.
Thank
you
on
to
item
number.
Two
I
will
ask
vice
chair
million
to
introduce
her
motion
Thank.
B
You
chair,
whereas
the
supporting
documentation,
titled
office
of
the
Auditor
General
review
of
emergency
shelter
program,
use
of
a
specific
hotel
was
not
circulated
with
the
agenda
package.
Therefore,
it
be
resolved
that
the
audit
committee
approved
the
addition
of
this
document
for
consideration
by
the
committee
at
today's
meeting
pursuant
to
section
89
three
of
the
procedure,
bylaw
being
bylaw
number
twenty
19-8.
D
The
scope
of
our
review
was
the
use
of
those
certain
properties
for
temporary
emergency
shelter
accommodations.
However,
in
order
for
us
to
investigate
and
understand
the
use
of
these
properties,
we
had
to
obtain
a
broader
understanding
of
the
use
of
hotels
and
motels
in
the
emergency
shelter
program.
D
To
provide
some
background
on
these
areas,
hotels
and
motels
are
used
primarily
for
single
fitori
for
families,
as
opposed
to
for
single
individuals.
The
city
has
only
one
emergency.
Mr.
Tory
has
only
one
shelter
for
families
and
it's
located
on
carling
avenue.
I
know
in
Tripp
the
councillors
were
called
that
the
there
used
to
be
another
one,
but
the
the
forward
family
shelter
closed
its
doors
in
February
of
2019.
D
So
in
2018,
on
the
average
night
there
were
219
families
in
hotels
and
motels
and
post-secondary
institutions.
They
called
these
the
off-site
placements,
and
this
was
up
from
181
families
the
previous
year
and
from
92
families
in
2000
in
16.
So
you
see
it's
gone
from
its
it's
more
than
doubled
in
the
two
years
and
by
way
of
comparison,
there's
only
space
for
22
families
in
the
city's
family,
shelter
on
carling
avenue,
the
amounts
paid
to
all
the
hotels
and
motels
for
emergency
shelters.
Temporary
emergency
shelter
was
nine
point
three
million
dollars
in
2018.
D
Therefore,
in
2018
payments
to
this
one
provider
made
up
41%
of
the
total
amount
paid
this
provider
is.
The
should
point
out
is
the
only
one
that
the
city
uses
that
also
offers
apartment
style,
accommodations
in
addition
to
its
motel,
so
families
I
should
point
out
often
prefer
to
stay
in
these
apartments,
as
they
have
kitchens
included,
and
this
can
be
especially
important,
as
these
are
generally
fairly
long
stays
that
the
families
are
in
these
hotels
and
in
2018
the
average
family
in
these
emergency
shelter,
hotel
motels
was
there
for
four
months.
D
Our
first
finding
in
this
area
was
that,
in
light
of
the
increasing
cost,
we
looked
at
the
city's
plan
and
strategies
to
address
the
situation.
We
found
that
the
city
does
have
a
medium
to
long
term
strategy
and
it's
implemented
a
number
of
measures
to
reduce
the
demand
for
and
increase
the
supply
of
emergency
shelter
spaces.
These
measures
include
negotiations
with
a
community
partner
to
expand
capacity
for
families.
D
D
The
oag
reached
out
to
three
other
municipalities
to
get
an
idea
of
what
their
processes
were
like.
We
found
that
two
of
the
municipalities
had
used
an
RFP
process,
one
of
them
which
one
of
which
was
to
procure
hotels
for
services
such
as
this
and
the
other
was
to
procure
a
third
party
service
provider
who
in
turn,
would
oversee
placement
processes
which
included
procuring
hotels,
so
one
of
which
was
directly
applicable,
one
of
which
was
so
much
applicable
and
the
other
did
not
did
not
use
an
RFP
process.
D
We
found
that
we
observe
no
bias
towards
the
selected
hotel
provider
in
the
hotel
placement
process,
so
each
household
or
family
requiring
placement
is
dealt
with
on
a
case-by-case
basis
and
they're
police
depending
on
their
specific
needs
and
then
hotel
availability.
So
when
space
was
available,
the
city
owned
or
community
shelters
were
given
property
properly,
given
priority
over
hotels
when
placing
households.
D
Whether
or
not
it's
cost-effective,
we
looked
at
the
cost
of
an
apartment
through
this
process
versus
versus
a
monthly
rent,
because,
basically,
if
you're,
if
a
family
is
in
in
these
apartments
for
a
month,
it's
just
over
$3,000
for
that
month,
which
is
we,
which
is
more
than
a
market
rate
for
an
apartment,
would
be.
However,
the
market
rate
is
only
available
if
you
commit
to
a
lease,
and
so
that
puts
us
into
a
different
situation.
D
We
found
city
staff
were
monitoring
households
on
a
regular
basis
to
ensure
that
they
were
staying
at
the
accommodations
to
which
they
had
been
assigned
by
the
city.
But
there
were
some
exceptions.
The
specific
hotel
provider
undertook
some
renovations
to
their
properties
that
were
listed
in
the
agreement
and
they
had
they
had
city
city
people
or
Vasari
pub
people
that
city
had
police
were
in
those
apartments
and
in
some
cases
they
notified
the
city
in
advance,
and
so
the
city
approved
them
moving
to
another
location.
D
However,
there
were
also
cases
when
the
provider
renovated
the
apartments
and
moved
the
people
out
without
notifying
the
city
that
they
were
doing
so,
and
they
moved
him
to
non
approved
properties
that
they
also
owned.
However,
when
city
staff
did
become
aware
of
the
situation
they
intervened
and
the
families
were
moved
back
into
approved,
approved
properties.
D
We
were
glad
to
see
that
there's
a
solid
invoice
verification
process
in
place.
The
process
checked
the
amounts
paid
to
the
specific
hotel
provider,
making
sure
that
they
were
for
authorized
individuals
and
for
authorized
durations
hotel
invoices
that
come
in
are
processed
each
month
and
are
paid
by
a
purchasing
card.
We
found
that
the
city's
purchasing
card
procedures
were
not
being
followed
by
city
staff.
The
purchasing
card
was
assigned
to
one
employee.
D
We
found
the
city's
agreement
with
the
specific
hotel
provider.
It
identified
eight
residential
properties,
in
addition
to
the
hotel,
and
we
did
observe
that
one
of
the
properties
on
the
hotel
had
undergone
work
without
the
required
building
permit.
So,
as
we
mentioned
earlier,
we
found
that
two
of
the
properties
listed
on
the
agreement
appear
to
have
had
additions
or
modifications
that
did
not
comply
with
Building
Code
brand
or
zoning
laws,
and
that
Building
Code
Services
staff
indicated
they
would
need
to
inspect
the
properties
to
assess
compliance.
D
C
A
Monsieur
ducat
house
in
Iran,
and
thank
you
mister
minor
just
before
we
continue
vice
chair
million,
introduced
a
motion
at
the
beginning
of
this
segment.
Was
that
motion
carried
to
introduce
the
report
you
you
had
done.
The
motion
can
is
the
motion
carried
carried?
Thank
you.
Questions
on
this
segment.
Council
Ruby,
please
Thank.
F
You
mr.
chair
a
couple
of
questions
to
the
audit,
and
and
thank
you
for
getting
back
to
us
quickly
with
us
one
to
the
I'm
surprised
what
the
use
of
the
competitive
bidding
process
that
something
like
that
wasn't
already
in
place,
because
if
there
had
been
a
procedure
like
that
this
example
wouldn't
have
happened.
Correct
we
wouldn't
be
paying
three
thousand
for
a
room.
C
Mr.
chair,
we
do
know
that
the
competitive
bidding
process
wasn't
used.
I,
don't
think
we
can
presuppose
the
results,
but
certainly
practice
has
proven
in
in
many
activities
at
the
city
and
in
other
organizations
that
a
competitive
building
a
competitive
process
usually
delivers
better,
better
prices.
So.
I
F
Part
of
that
process,
while
we
have
you
here
well
part
of
that
process,
be
as
pointed
out
in
the
audit
here,
it
doesn't
look
like
there
was
building
permits
issued
for
the
work
done
on
that
case.
You
know
if,
if
somebody's
getting
money
from
the
city
to
provide
a
service,
I
would
hope
that
they're,
following
all
the
rules
at
the
city,
so
will
that
be
included.
F
I
E
Thank
you
very
much
and
I
appreciate.
The
study
was
done
so
so
quickly
and
and
I
appreciate
the
responses
from
from
staff
on
it
to
agree
with
it.
I'm
glad
to
a
councillor.
Hubie
I
asked
the
question
about
the
competitive
process,
because
it
was
mentioned
that
the
other
municipalities
have
done
that.
My
concern
was,
and
on
that
case
was,
was
it
possible
because
we're
in
such
a
tight
market?
What?
What
stresses
that
puts
on
us
in
terms
of
the
fact
that
the
vacancy
rates
are
so
low
across
the
city
that
we?
I
Mr.
chair,
so
certainly
the
rising
rents
and
of
a
low
rate
vacancy
rate
has
contribute
to
some
of
the
issues
we're
seeing
around
fan
homelessness
in
general
in
our
city,
in
our
ability
to
move
families
out
of
temporary
lodging
into
permanent
accommodation.
Every
year,
though,
the
Family
Shelter
system
does
move
between
550
to
600,
individual
households
through
the
shelter
system
and
inter
permanent
housing.
The
RFP
we
will
be
doing
will
be
strictly
for
hotels
and
motels.
I
E
You
so
the
scope
of
this
was
just
on
one
specific
hotel
and
I
take
it
that
it
will
be
a
process
across
the
board
so
that
we
will
have
it
for
all
all
biddings
I
just
want
to
make
that
clear.
Mr.
chair,
that
is
correct.
Okay,
thank
you
very
much.
Well,
I
think
we
all
agree
that
this
is
not
ideal
for
anyone
to
live
in
these
kinds
of
situations.
So
I
mean
it's
it's
pretty
hard
on
these
families.
E
I
see
it
up
close
because
it's
in
my
ward
and
I,
it's
something
that
we
can
see
very
clearly
is
problematic
and
we
feel
for
these
people
and
we
hope
to
have
better
situations.
I
really
appreciate
the
fact
that
we're
talking
about
working
on
nonprofits
or
possibly
building
our
own
facilities
and
I'd,
like
your
comments
on
that,
because
this
is
in
this
case
it's
working
with
somebody
who's,
a
commercial
person
or
a
company
or
whatever,
and
but
I'd,
like
your
comments
on
that,
because
there
shouldn't
be
profit
made
on
on
these
situations.
I
Mr.
chairs,
we've
had
long-standing
arrangements
with
some
of
the
hotel
and
motel
providers
that
we
use
before
2012.
We
had
about
60
permanent
beds
for
family
shelter
capacity
in
the
city
we
partnered
with
the
YMCA
and
we
added
capacity
both
in
2012
and
2015,
and
we
now
have
152
permanent
rooms,
which
is
about
six
hundred
and
four
beds
in
the
system.
In
2016
we
were
almost
up.
We
would
call
internally
motel
0.
We
were
greatly
reducing
our
use
of
Motel
stock
because
we
had
added
the
additional
capacity.
I
However,
in
2017
we
started
to
see
a
very
unprecedented
demand
for
family
shelter,
services
being
fueled
in
part
by
both
migration
to
auto
Ottawa
immigration
to
Ottawa,
etc.
So
our
plans
are
definitely
we
are
continuing
to
discuss
with
the
YMCA
to
add
additional
further
capacity
at
their
facility
in
Argyll,
where
families
can
benefit
from
a
great
deal
of
wraparound
services
and
supports,
and
we're
also
undertaking
a
cost-benefit
analysis
to
look
at
the
capital,
capital
and
operating
costs
of
constructing
a
new
purpose-built
family
shelter
to
reduce
our
reliance
on
hotels
and
motels
I,
really.
E
Appreciate
hearing
that,
especially
since
the
numbers
doubled
in
two
years
and
I,
don't
think
that
any
of
us
first
forecast
seeing
it
going
down
in
the
immediate
future,
given
the
pressures
internationally,
so
I
appreciate
it
and
I
just
saw
the
movie
the
florida
project,
the
other
the
other
night
and
just
recommended
its.
It
gives
you
a
sense
of
people
living
in
motel
rooms,
but
thank
you
and
I
hope
we
can
work
to
make
lives
better
for
these
newcomers
to
our
city.
Thank
you.
B
Thank
You
chair
first
of
all,
I
want
to
thank
the
auditor
for,
for
his
report.
Number
two
I,
certainly
I,
think
every
one
of
us
can
understand
the
stress
that
your
staff
must
have
been
under
in
in
2017
2018
and
even
probably
today,
with
the
influx
of
you
know,
people
who
need
accommodation
and
we
just
don't,
have
it
but
going
back
just
if
I
understand
this
correctly,
the
we,
the
City
Council,
has
delegated
authority
to
the
housing
services
branch
in
order
to
find
solutions
to
the
accommodation
issue
in
the
city.
B
If
I
understand
correctly
the
we
paid
out,
it's
nine
point,
three
million
I
guess
in
2018.
Is
there
cap
on
how
much
your
staff
can
approve
in
accommodation
spending
without
having
coming
back
to
council
like
if
this
had
been?
If
this
we
had
to
go
up
to,
20
million
I
mean
at
what
point
do
we
say
we
have
to
have
another
opinion?
We
maybe
have
to
look
at
some
other
options
here
and
and
have
maybe
council
or
somebody
else
take
I
know.
Who
else
would
it
be?
C
B
I
I
I
I
F
You
mr.
chair,
just
just
on
that
last
point,
when
you
said
you're
paying
3000
is
that
per
family
or
per
building.
You
were
talking
about
three
buildings:
there.
It's
per
unit
3000
per
unit,
okay,
the
the
trigger
to
like,
when
I
look
at
the
report
here
and
see
the
differences
from
2015
to
2018
I.
Think
most
people
recognize
that
that's.
F
Or
immigrants
that
come
in
after
the
prime
minister's
tweet
saying
come
to
Canada
and
we'll
take
care
of
you.
The
federal
government
was
asked
to
contribute
to
pay.
There's
the
share
for
the
people
in
that
class.
Are
we
getting
that
money
to
cover
those
years?
I
know,
there's
been
some
announcements,
but
I
don't
think
it's
these
numbers.
I
Mr.
chair,
so
the
funding
that
we
requested
from
the
federal
government
was
specific
for
refugee
claimants
arriving
to
Ottawa
via
the
United
States.
So
we
did
receive
earlier
this
year,
7.1
million
dollars
and
within
the
last
week
or
so,
we've
received
an
additional
10.1
million
which
covers
the
costs
that
we've
taken
on
as
a
municipality
for
that
particular
cohort
and.
F
I
E
Thank
you
like
most
people,
one
of
the
first
questions
I
wanted
to
ask
is
when
we're
paying
this
kind
of
money
is.
Why
didn't
we
just
put
this
in
directly
into
permanent
housing
for
people
rather
than
temporary,
and
the
answer
I
was
given.
That
was
that
there
was
tagged
that
it
must
be
used
for
this
purpose,
based
on
provincial
funding.
Is
that
is
that
correct.
I
So
the
mr.
chair,
the
funding
we
receive
from
the
provincial
government,
that's
invested
in
emergency
shelter.
Solutions
is
part
of
a
broader
envelope
called
the
community
homelessness
prevention
initiative
funding.
We
received
37-point
million
thirty
seven
point:
six
million
dollars
from
the
province,
which
is
invested
in
a
variety
of
emergency,
shelters,
solutions,
homelessness,
prevention,
supportive
housing
and
other
homelessness
services.
So
it's
very
targeted.
It
can
only
be
used
for
those
specific
purposes.
So
we
can't
take
that
money
about
funding
and
realign
it
to
invest
it
in
something
like
a
rent,
supplement
or
housing
allowance.
Okay,.
E
I
just
wanted
to
point
that
out
because
I
think
that's
the
question
on
everyone's
mind,
because
when
they
the
whole
reason
that
this
this
was
brought
up
was
the
fact
that
when
they
see
that
you
know
large
amount
of
money
being
used,
it
just
shocks.
People
and
their
first
question-
is
why
don't
we
put
them
in
a
permanent
place
and
must
be
cheaper
to
do
that?
Has
there
been
any
conversations
that,
with
the
provincial
government,
to
have
some
flexibility
on
that.
I
There's
not
mr.
chair,
there's
not
currently
conversations
with
the
provincial
government
around
the
community
homelessness
prevention
initiative,
funding
we
are
receiving
or
have
received
other
pockets
of
funding
from
the
provincial
government.
The
new
Ontario
priorities,
housing
initiative,
funding,
which
we'll
be
investing
in
new
development.
There's
another
report
will
be
bringing
to
community
and
Protective
Services
Committee
around
another
component.
We
are
heavily
investing
in
both
housing
allowances
and
rent
supplements
to
try
and
move
families
out
of
the
emergency
shelter
system
into
permanent
housing.
I
Every
family
that
comes
into
the
emergency
shelter
system
is
offered
what
we
call
a
tiered
housing
allowance,
so
it's
250
for
the
head
of
household
and
50
additional
dollars
and
that's
a
and
that's
for
people
to
find
housing
of
their
choice
in
the
private
market
and
it's
portable.
What
we
find
is
many
of
the
families
that
come
into
the
family.
Shelter
system
are
looking
for
the
deep
affordability
that
you
find
in
community
housing
or
social
housing,
where
they're
only
paying
30
percent
of
their
income.
I
A
Thank
you
seeing
you
other
questions
and,
first
of
all,
miss
Van
Buskirk.
Thank
you
and
you're
the
case
workers
that
do
incredible
work
in
very
difficult
circumstances,
on
the
weekends
at
night,
in
in
assisting
new
arrivals
to
our
city
in
in
in
getting
shelter,
not
accommodations
but
shelter,
with
respect
to
implementing
recommendation
number
one
which
you've
agreed
to
the
business
case,
to
establish
the
capital
operating
costs
for
additional
shelter
space
that
hopefully
costs
less
than
$3,000
per
month
per
family
or
per
unit.
A
I
You,
mr.
chair,
so
right
now
we
have
our
refresh
of
our
ten-year
housing
and
homelessness
plan.
That's
underway!
That's
due
to
the
province
by
the
end
of
the
year
and
we'll
be
bringing
that
to
community
and
Protective
Services
Committee
in
q1
of
2020,
so
I
think
we'll
complete
the
business
case
and
take
that
portion
of
its
and
include
it
in
the
Refresh
as
one
of
the
strategies
that
will
undertake
to
reduce
family
homelessness.
Here
in
the
city.
A
I
Certainly,
under
the
ten-year
housing
and
homelessness
plan,
refresh
we're
looking
at
a
variety
of
different
strategies
around
how
to
create
more
affordable
housing,
the
city,
how
to
address
the
issues
more
broadly
of
homelessness
in
our
city,
not
just
specific
to
families,
but
also
to
singles.
So
it
will
be
a
broad
approach
with
numerous
strategies
and
tactics
under
the
10-year
plan,
refresh
that
we
will
bring
back
to
CPSC
and
council.
Okay.
A
I
Thank
You
mr.
chair,
so
a
housing
service
was
initially
intending
to
release
an
RFP
for
hotels
and
motels
in
2015,
and
at
that
point
in
time
those
requirements
were
to
be
included
as
just
part
of
the
general
terms
and
conditions
of
that
RFP.
We
were
due
to
release.
We
didn't
release
that
RFP,
because
in
20
2016
we
were
actually
getting
down
to
very
little
motel
usage
and
we
felt
that
was
some
of
the
investments
we
were
making
and
creating
space
community
partners.
We
actually
wouldn't
need
to
go
ahead.
I
A
Thank
you,
my
last
question,
page
21
and
thank
you
to
the
Auditor
General,
who
went
to
peel
into
Toronto
to
look
at
practices
there
and
benchmarking
there
and
as
counselor,
and
perhaps
all
of
us
we've
we've
assisted
callers
in
in
providing
direction
to
the
shelter
system
through
your
department
and
and
some
difficulties
there.
Some
systems
are
automated.
Why
is
ours
not
automated,
for
why
is
it
phone
calls
and
phone
calls
and
I
know
it's
referred
to
here
as
a
couple
of
phone
calls,
sometimes
it's
more
complex
than
that.
I
Mr.
chair,
so
it
is
automated
for
all
of
the
other
community
shelters
and
our
family
shelter
in
this.
In
the
City
of
Ottawa,
we
use
a
system
called
the
homelessness
individuals
and
families.
Information
system
where
we
it's
used
really
to
book
people
in
and
out
of
shelters,
is
where
our
billing
originates
from
one
of
the
with
the
hotels
and
motels
that
we
use
were
dissimilar
to
say
a
Toronto
as
we
don't
take
over
the
whole,
the
whole
hotel
and
motel.
I
We
don't
guarantee
them
business,
nor
they
do
they
guarantee
us
rooms,
so
I
think
you
know
trying
to
introduce
a
computer
system
for
them.
That's
from
the
federal
government.
It's
got
a
lot
of
privacy
concerns
around
it
would
not
be
would
not
be
doable.
We
may
have
one
person
staying
in
one
hotel,
for
instance,
and
the.
A
G
I
Mr.
chair,
it's
not
something
that
we've
ever
explored
taking
over
our
whole
hotel
for
that
particular
purpose.
Nor
have
we
had
a
whole
hotel
that
would
have
been
interested
and
supplying
their
facility
for
that
purpose.
It's
definitely
something
that
we
could
examine
moving
forward
as
we
look
at
the
most
cost
effective
way
to
deliver
Family
Shelter
services
in
the
city.
G
Well
again,
I
think,
like
so
my
colleague
said
it
really
I
want
to
echo
that
sentiment.
Thank
you
so
much
for
doing
a
great
job
with
with
the
number
of
guests
we
have
in
our
city
and
refugee
and
and
the
emergency
you
have
to
deal
with
weather,
tornado
or
floods
or
other,
so
it's
just
to
be
commended
for
job
well
done.
Thank
you.
G
A
You
colleague,
seeing
no
other
questions
that
the
audit
committee
receive
and
review
the
review
of
emergency
shelter
program,
use
of
a
specific
hotel
and
recommend
that
council
consider
and
approve
the
report
recommendations
that
carried.
Thank
you
item
number
three
on
the
agenda
would
vice-chair
me
and
please
introduce
a
motion.
B
Whereas
the
supporting
documentation,
titled
office
of
the
Auditor
General
investigation
of
cash
theft
incident
Meridian
theatres
at
Centrepointe,
was
not
circulated
with
the
agenda
package.
Therefore,
it
be
resolved
that
the
Audit
Committee
approved
the
addition
of
this
document
for
consideration
by
the
committee
at
today's
meeting
pursuant
to
section
89
three
of
the
procedure,
bylaw
being
violent
number,
twenty
19-8.
C
D
Our
third
report
this
afternoon
is
an
investigation
into
what
casts
theft
incident
that
occurred
in
November
of
2018
at
the
Meridian
theater
at
Centrepointe.
You'll
note
that
some
of
our
report
has
been
redacted.
Some
of
the
details
in
the
full
report
could
potentially
impact
on
the
security
of
city
staff
and
assets,
and
so
it
will
not
be
made
publicly
available.
D
The
cache
thirteen
hundred
and
sixty
dollars
was
stolen
from
a
drop
safe
that
was
located
in
an
office
area
at
the
Meridian,
theater
and
drop
safe,
contains
a
contains
a
cache
float,
as
well
as
cash
from
box
office
and
sales
and
and
bar
and
merchandise
sales
now
for
case
you're
not
familiar.
This
is
what
a
drop
safe
looks
like
so
staff
drop
an
item
in
at
the
top
there
in
the
hole
in
the
top.
D
Then
they
spin
the
spin,
the
big
wheel
and
the
item
falls
down
into
the
body
of
the
safe
and
then,
if
you
have
the
combination,
you
can
open
the
main
door
and
you
can
get
to
the
item.
However,
you
can't
access
items
in
the
body
of
the
safe
once
you've
turned
them
around.
You
can
try
to
stick
your
hand
in
which
you're
not
going
to
get
very
far.
D
So
the
main
objective
of
our
of
our
review
or
investigation
was
determined
who
stole
the
money
and
we
did
not.
In
this
case,
we
did
not
review
the
theater
staffs
compliance
with
city
policies
and
processes
regarding
cash
handling
or
look
at
their
internal
controls,
and
the
reason
is
is
that
they,
a
cash
handling
compliance
review,
had
been
completed
at
the
the
centerpoint
theater
by
the
city's
compliance
unit
in
June
of
2018.
So
we
didn't
feel
as
value
in
repeating
a
lot
of
the
same
work.
D
D
So
as
a
result,
it
would
have
been
possible
for
anyone
who
had
access
to
that
area
to
open
it
and
take
take
the
money
out
and
without
someone
knowing
the
second
result
really
was
that
there
was
an
inadequate
control
over
the
safeguarding
of
cash
in
the
drop
safe,
in
that
it
was
not
under
camera
surveillance.
At
the
time
of
the
incident,
it
was
located
in
an
open
office
area
and
employees,
volunteers
and
potentially
others
had
access
to
the
safe
and
both
management.
D
D
The
results
and
recommendations
coming
out
of
the
compliance
review
were
provided
to
management
in
this
beginning
of
August
2018.
They
included
a
recommendation
to
ensure
all
safes
be
kept
in
a
restricted
area.
Management's
response
to
this
recommendation
stated
at
the
time
that
the
drop
safe
would
be
moved.
D
We
found
management's
response
to
the
identified
risk
was
not
implemented
on
a
timely
basis
and
again
that's
because
they
did
not
react
to
that.
We
think
is
a
timely
basis
and,
as
a
result,
it
would
have
reduced
the
possibility,
the
probability
of
the
theft
ever
occurring
and
if
it
did
occur,
there
would
have
a
much
greater
likelihood
who
could
have
could
have
identified
the
thief.
D
F
D
I
can
confirm
yet
we
were.
We
were
there
about
I
think
we
were
there
14
days
after
the
sort
of
after
the
report,
no
not
for
14
days
after
the
potential
thefts
that
took
a
while
tool
is
reported
to
us
and
in
there
were
drops.
They've
had
been
moved
at
that
time
and
we
physically
observed
it
in
a
in
a
safer
location.
So.
D
F
F
We
have
thank
you.
Mr.
Sanyal,
we
have
a
situation
where
we
sat
here
in
audit
committee.
The
AG
made
very
helpful,
in
my
view,
recommendations
that
we
move
the
safe
in
June,
and
here
we
are
back
here
again
with
this
situation.
So
I'd
like
to
hear
from
you
the
accountability
that
should
have
been
in
place
in,
but
certainly
must
be.
There
now.
J
Mr.
chair,
yes
happy
to
clarify
on
that.
Certainly
in
June,
the
cash
management
folks
did
come
in
and
did
observe
that
one
of
the
three
safes
at
the
site
was
sitting
out
in
and
as
mentioned
by,
the
auditor
in
a
general
staff
work
area,
essentially
a
cubicle
cubicle
area
like
many
city
facilities
that
are
older
they're.
These
types
of
situations
where
safes
are
in
locations
that
are
not
necessarily
ideal
from
a
security
perspective.
This
was
the
case
at
Meridian.
J
What
they
should
have
done
immediately
is
found
a
temporary
location
to
do
that.
One
was
available,
and
in
fact,
as
mentioned
by
by
mr.
miner,
shortly
after
the
theft,
the
safe
was
moved
and
is
now
in
a
temporary
location
that
is
secure
and
under
camera,
but
again
not
ideal
as
a
counting
counting
room
for
as
the
final
destination.
For
this.
For
this,
a
room
will
require
retrofitting
in
order
to
provide
all
of
the
amenities
that
I
just
talked
about.
Now,
we're
going
to
do
that,
but
for
now
safe
is
secure
and
under
camera.
F
Okay,
you
raise
the
the
point
that
there's
other
locations
as
well,
that
the
city
has
these
operations.
Is
there
a
review
like
you
know
it
took
the
AG
coming
in
and
to
make
a
suggestion
that
there
be
a
cam
or
that
this
would
be
covered
under
a
camera.
That
troubles
me
I
would
have
thought
our
corporate
security
folks
would
have
made
a
recommendation
that
it
there'd
be
some
kind
of
secure
facility
for
this
to
begin
with
before
the
safe
was
even
put
in
there.
F
J
Mr.
chair,
yes,
and
bear
in
mind
we're
talking
about
over
a
hundred
locations,
some
of
them
in
buildings
that
were
really
built
before
any
of
this
cameras
or
or
drop
safes
were
in
place.
We
are
reviewing
roughly
30
percent
of
our
facilities.
Right
now
are
fully
compliant.
Some
are
compliant
in
terms
of
security
of
the
safe,
but
don't
necessarily
have
a
camera.
Some
have
a
camera
but
need
adjustments,
as
recommended
by
the
auditor.
J
We
did
put
out
as
soon
as
as
soon
as
we
received
the
recommendations
direction
to
staff
to
check
positioning
of
camera
to
make
sure
that,
on
a
regular
basis,
those
that
do
have
camera
on
them
are
in
fact
capturing
the
proper
image
of
the
front
of
the
safe,
the
area
where
one
would
go
to
access
the
safe
to
remove
funds.
So.
F
My
last
question,
and-
and
let
us
know
if
you
need
this
as
a
direction
or
it
just
makes
sense
as
management
that
you
might
want
to
do
this.
Can
you
assure
us
in
the
sites
that
are
not
a
hundred
percent
secure,
yet
that
staff
have
been
told
to
keep
the
safes
locked
so
that
we
don't
have
a
situation
of
a
non
secure,
safe,
open
at
any
time
and
that
you've
instituted
the
AG's
recommendation
that
there
always
be
two
people
present
when
they're
counting
the
money
or
handling
anything
out
of
that
safe?
J
Chair,
yes,
that
that
has
been
done.
We
have
advised
staff
there.
There
is
a
possibility
of
human
error
in
this
case
where
the
safe
was
perhaps
not
properly
locked,
and
so
that
has
been
issued
to
staff
as
well
as
a
directive
that,
in
the
case
where
there
is
a
significant
cash
discrepancy
in
that,
could
be
theft,
but
it
could
be
miss
placement
or
that,
as
recommended
by
the
Auditor
General,
more
than
one
person
be
involved
in
counting
out
and
creating
the
reconciliation
of
of
the
funds
and
and
documenting
what
is
observed.
G
D
G
J
Mr.
chair,
we
have
not
considered
eliminating
cash
completely.
Bear
in
mind
that
this
is
the
theater
with
the
front
bar
concessions.
Often
promoters
would
have
things
for
sale,
those
kinds
of
things
there
is
an
ATM.
There
is
the
opportunity
to
take
credit
and
debit,
and
but
we
have
not
eliminated
cash
completely,
and
at
this
point
we
have
not
considered
that
in
any
of
our
operations
as
a
as
a
way
forward.
G
J
Wherever
possible
chair,
we
are
looking
at
doing
that,
for
example,
in
our
swimming
pools.
We
encourage
people
to
buy
memberships
so
that
they're
not
paying
every
time,
but
bear
in
mind
that
some
of
these
are
impulse
purchases
at
the
time
you
go
to
the
theater
and
you
want
to
drink
or
you
want
something
to
eat
there,
I
think
for
now
it
would
be
very
difficult
from
a
customer
service
perspective
to
operate
a
theater
or
a
swimming
pool,
or
a
lot
of
our
facilities
on
a
no
cash
basis.
E
You
very
much
thank
you
for
the
report.
One
of
the
biggest
surprises
to
me
was
the
recommendation
to
that
that
asking
about
to
staff
be
present
at
cash
counts.
I
thought
that
was
so
obvious,
and
so
you
know
I
was
on
the
Audit
Committee
for
a
school
board
and
probably
one
of
the
biggest
headaches
we
had
was
those
you
know:
bake
sales
and
school
funds
that
were
collected
cash
and
money
went
missing
and
it
was.
E
You
know
due
to
the
fact
that
you
know
you're
working
with
volunteers
and
and
things
go
missing
and
they
they
tarnish
the
reputation
of
the
school,
sometimes
because
it
was
so
problematic.
But
the
recommendation
was
always
that
there's
always
you
know
two
people
in
in
front
of
cash.
Is
this
not
something
that
we
do
across
the
board
everywhere
like
that
that
we
have
this
recommendation?
I
assume
you're,
not
just
making
it
for
this
particular
incidence,
but
that
anything
to
do
with
cash
that
to
people
be
present.
C
Mr.
chair,
through
the
council,
I
think
the
the
cash
handling
policy
addresses
the
normal
issues.
Where
has
recommended
that
two
people,
two
people
handle
cash.
This
is
an
extraordinary
situation
and
it
and
and
that's
why
we
reminded
staff
too,
we
recommended
staff
to
point
out
to
staff
that,
when
the
extraordinary
situation
occurs
for
the
protection
of
everyone,
two
people
should
be
present
when
they
count
that
I.
E
B
B
J
Relatively
unusual
at
the
Meridian
theater
and
across
the
board
to
have
you
know
there
are
shortages
and
overages
and,
like
any
any
operation,
thefts
are
relatively
unusual
in
our
facility
of
cash
because
they
are
deposited
in
safes.
Not
all
our
facilities
have
cameras,
and
so,
when
I
said
you
know,
30
percent
would
be
fully
compliant.
Not
not
every
city,
recreation
or
cultural
building
necessarily
has
a
camera
system.
B
J
That's
a
loss
but
know
what
what
I
was
saying
is
that
the
the
the
standard
that
we
have
set
here
of
having
a
safe
in
a
safe
room
with
a
camera
on
it?
Is
it
about
a
30%
level,
bearing
in
mind
that
some
facilities
don't
have
cameras,
some
facilities
don't
take
in
cash,
they
would
have.
If
they
do
take
in
cash,
they
would
have
a
safe.
J
B
C
Chairman,
so
that
the
the
the
answer
can't
be
determined
when
we
looked
at
the
at
the
number
of
individuals
who
had
access
to
that
area
over
the
couple
of
days
that
it
could
have
happened,
there
were
so
many
people
through
who
would
go
through.
This
would
go
through
this
area
in
the
normal
course
of
their
work.
It
wasn't
possible
and,
more
importantly,
if
the
if
the
safe
was
locked,
there
were
only
before
people
who
could
potentially
have
have
done
this.
C
If
the
safe
wasn't
locked,
then
it
could
have
been
anyone
who
could
gain
access,
including
tradespeople
or
or
people
who,
just
you
know,
who
were
visiting
staff
who
legitimately
in
a
work
in
that
area,
so
it
it
was
just
so
brought
over
such
a
period
of
time.
It
just
wasn't
possible
to
know
whether
it
was
a
staff
person
and
that's
what's
always
unfortunate
when,
when
you
don't
have
all
of
the
the
facilities
available
it
controls
in
place.
C
We
talked
about
this
when
we
had
the
other
thefts
of
client
service
centers,
when
you
don't
have
when
you're,
not
following
all
the
polity,
proper
policies
and
procedures
and
and
controls
that
are
put
in
place
when
the
cameras
aren't
appropriately
aimed
at
the
individuals
who
are
handling
cash.
It
unfortunately
means
that
people
who
are
quite
innocent
are
placed
under
suspect,
even
though
someone
else
who
works
in
that
area
or
a
co-worker
is
the
one
who
has
perpetrated
the
theft
and
that's
that's
what
makes
it
more
unfortunate?
It's
it's.
C
B
Just
a
little
bit
of
follow-up,
I'm,
sorry
but
I
said
last
question
mr.
shinny
said
something
about
we
might
have
to
retrofit
or
find
a
room
or
that's
locked.
You
know
like
we
lost
$1400,
but
isn't.
If
we
follow
standard
procedures,
were
two
people
like
the
safe
must
be
locked.
There's
two
people
who
must
count
the
cash
it
could
just
pull
the
table
up
count
the
cash
with
those
two
people
they
sign
off
and
I
mean
it's.
J
In
that
sense,
we've
have
identified
a
room
that
I
believe
was
a
kitchenette
of
some
sort
in
the
past
no
longer
in
use.
Our
intent
is
to
install
a
camera
in
that
room,
do
a
bit
of
millwork
so
that
a
table
can
go
in
there
and
then
only
to
have
staff
that
actually
need
to
be
involved
in
cash
reconciliation
in
that
room,
because
the
current
other
alternatives
are
good
temporary
solutions.
A
Thank
you
all
just
a
few
comments
and
questions.
Xin
Yi,
you
know:
we've
dealt
with
cash
management
issues
at
this
committee
before
current
service,
centers
and
and
before
June
2018,
and
it
is
very
upsetting
that,
after
the
the
cash
compliance
review
of
June
2018
that
the
safe
was
not
moved
it
might,
it
certainly
would
have
reduced.
A
A
Take
that
for
for
the
important
issue
that
it
is
it
is.
It
is
the
impact
on
our
honest
employees
when,
when
something
like
this
goes
and
and
it's
and
it's
unsolved,
you,
you
said
mr.
Xin
Yi,
there's
there's
three
safes
at
Meridian.
Is
that
what
I
understood
that's
correct?
I
did
not
know
that
as
part
of
the
cash
compliance
review
of
June
2018,
were
there
any
recommendations
for
those
other
counting
areas
or
safe
areas,
and
my
follow-up
question
is:
have
those
recommendations
been
implemented.
J
A
I
won't
ask
why
we
need
two
safes
in
the
same
area.
That's
an
operational
issue,
but
there
you
go
and
do
want
to
ask
the
Auditor
General.
Your
report
says
four
people
had
the
combination
to
the
safe
is
that
that
evening,
or
in
that
period,
from
November
6
to
November,
8th
or
is
that
in
total,
at
the
Meridian
theater
for
people
that
have
access
the
combination
to
the
safe
at.
D
D
Yes,
one
of
them,
one
of
them
we
know
was
not
so
it
was
really
dead.
Who
was
know
not
understanding
was
not
working
at
that
time
in
the
area.
The
other
three
were
in
the
area,
whether
or
not
they
had
access.
You
know
specific
without
they
came
in
through
the
the
door
can't
guarantee
all
three
of
them
did.
It
would
not
surprise
me
if
they
did,
because
they
were
working
in
that
area.
Okay
and.
A
D
D
We
reviewed
them
as
well,
by
way
of
example,
that
were
on
a
given
day.
There
were,
there
are
a
hundred,
and
seventy
swipes
going
in
you
know
are
out
so
you
didn't
have
to
swipe
to
go
out,
but
it
would
record
the
time
of
an
exit
and
then,
according
every
every
entrance
going
in
by
whose
card
went
in.
So
it's
quite
a
number
for
quite
a
bit
of
activity.
A
E
You,
whereas
the
supporting
documentation,
titled
office
of
the
Auditor
General
report
on
fraud
and
hotline
was
not
circulated
with
the
agenda
package,
therefore
be
resolved
that
the
Audit
Committee
approved
the
addition
of
this
document
for
consideration
by
the
committee
at
today's
meeting
pursuant
to
section
89
three
of
the
procedure,
bylaw
being
bylaw
number
2019.
Eight
thank.
C
C
C
A
fraud
and
waste
hotline
is
a
best
practice
for
accountability
in
transparency.
It's
an
important
component
of
an
organization
that
wishes
to
demonstrate
and
communicate
and
live
with
a
high
level
of
of
ethical
practices
and
the
the
mere
existence
of
this
line,
and
the
success
of
this
line
is
another
indication.
The
city
is
accountable
and
transparent.
C
I
don't
have
to
remind
the
committee
that
these
reports
have
led
to
audits
and
investigative
reviews
in
the
past
and
they
form
an
important
part
of
our
planning
for
the
for
the
annual
work
plan,
although
not
always
quantified
about
quantifiable.
These
reports
save
money
in
the
future
and
have
led
to
the
recover
of
loss
is
concerned.
C
Remembering-
and
we've
talked
about
this
at
this
committee
before
in
any
organization
in
any
village,
in
any
company
and
any
municipality,
there
are
three
types
of
individuals:
there
are
those
individuals
that
will
always
do
what
they're
told
and
will
always
act
appropriately.
There
are
those
individuals
that,
when
given
an
opportunity
will
not
act
appropriately,
will
not
follow
rules
and
will
misbehave,
and
then
there
are
those
individuals
that,
if
they
think
there's
a
possibility
that
they
are
not
going
to
get
caught,
will
misbehave
and
it
is.
C
So
originally
the
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline
was
developed
to
give
a
voice
to
employees
that
would
allow
them
to
identify
issues
without
fear
of
repercussion,
and
it
was
a
recognized
in
the
past
that
the
existence
of
this
line
contributed
to
a
safe
and
secure
workplace
and
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline
was
extended
to
to
residents
and
taxpayers
the
the
lying.
The
fraud
and
waste
hotline
also
serves
other
benefits
and
that
it
has
helped
us
identify
areas
of
inefficiency
or
waste
through
the
city
in
the
past.
C
Don't
have
to
remind
the
members
of
the
committee
that
there
were
certainly
some
obvious
examples
of
fraud.
You
know
forgery
or
theft-
some
as
we
spoke
to
about
today
in
the
in
the
Centrepointe
issue,
irregularities
in
the
handling,
money
and
the
handling
of
money.
But
there
are
less
obvious
issues,
any
you
know,
think
of
individuals
who
would
either
manipulate
data
improperly
or
destroy
data
or
people
who
are
misusing
city
property
or
equipment.
Those
would
be
less
obvious
examples
of
fraud
and
OSI.
Mr.
president,.
C
The
column
on
the
Debu
yeah
calculus
exempt
the
debate
for
exempt
is
employees
as
affect
a
CEO,
a
this
activity.
There's
activity
here
it
was
on
a
predict
TV
as
a
model
lab
you
or
delay
the
size
example
to
zucchini
or
bond
function.
Ahmad
Emilio
datura
by
constituted
lab.
You
assume
supervisor
for
exampie
I
respect
you
little
better.
Show
the
colleague
with
a
fraction
of
the
to
thought,
prove
mania.
Disagree
in
the
in
the
workplace.
There
are
obvious
examples
of
abuse
and
it
could
be
where
there's
the
overuse
of
resources.
C
A
number
of
years
ago
we
talked
about
the
application
of
salt
in
an
audit
report,
individuals
that,
whether
it
be
the
employees
or
suppliers
who
are
not
following
expectations.
We
talked
about
an
example
a
couple
of
years
ago,
when
we
tested
asphalt
provided
by
supplier,
they
were
delivering
asphalt
that
didn't
meet
the
city's
expectations
and,
of
course
there
are
also
actions
that
reduce
activity
in
the
workplace
and
they
could
be
employees
who
haven't
been
assigned
work.
They
could
be
a
disrespectful
supervisor
or
bullying
or
harassment
that
occurs
in
the
workplace.
C
Any
of
those
activities
can
lead
to
waste.
So
the
policy
applies
to
all
City
of
Ottawa
employees
except
councillors
and
their
staff.
The
police
service,
the
public
library
staff
and
and
I
should
point
out
that
the
public
library
has
their
own
fraud
and
waste
a
hotline
that
parallels
ours,
and
if
we
receive
a
fraud
and
waste
complaint
for
the
public
library,
we
provide
that
to
the
public
library
day
to
review
and
the
Community
Housing
Corporation
has
introduced
their
own
fraud
waste
outline.
That
is
also
built
in
parallel
to
ours.
C
C
C
The
this
is
a
significant
effort
activity
for
the
office
of
the
Auditor
General
and
certainly
depends
on
the
year
and
generally,
the
administration
consumes
roughly
two
full-time
equivalents
or
just
under
a
quarter
of
our
staff
resources
and
in
addition
to
administering
the
hotline,
we
also
provide
the
corporate
expertise
in
fraud
examination.
There
are
currently
three
Certified
Fraud
examiner's
in
the
office
and
there's
one
more
seeking
that
certification.
C
We
receive
all
of
the
reports
ourselves
and
then
we
determine
whether
it's
something
that
we
will
investigate
ourselves
or
pass
it
on
to
management,
and
naturally,
we
liaised
with
the
city
solicitor,
where
necessary
and
before
the
the
police
are
contacted.
There
is
a
requirement
within
the
policy
that
the
city
solicitor
in
the
Auditor
General
communicate.
C
So
the
hotline
is
designed
to
be
confidential
and
anonymous.
Should
the
reporter
wish
to
to
maintain
their
anonymity.
We
use
third
parties
to
to
operate
the
call
center
and
a
third
party
who
operates
and
manages
the
weds
website
for
us,
it's
accessible
through
the
phone
and
via
the
internet
and
it's
accessible
to
all
residents
and
employees
operates
24/7,
and
over
the
last
couple
of
years,
we've
made
a
number
of
improvements
to
make
it
a
phone
friendly
and
we're
finding
that.
C
We
can
see
that
when
we
talk
about
some
of
the
other
reports,
so
no
kavod
seeker,
the
volume
so
estab
are
a
poor
set
na
on
comparison
and
any
president
set
an
a
on
a
dodgy
Milady's
with
a
news
of
Odyssey
socket
already
seen
amount.
So
we
can.
The
volume
of
reports
are
stable
in
comparison
to
last
year.
This
year
we
received
109
reports
and
you
can
see
with
the
with
the
chart
that
there
are
been
some
some
peaks,
but
generally
were
probably
in
a
period
of
stability.
C
At
this
point
in
time,
we've
always
said
that
every
year
that
that
the
the
number
of
reports
coming
from
public
versus
employees
swings
between
60
and
40
percent,
and
this
year
we
see
the
same
thing.
57%
of
reports
came
from
the
public
last
year
was
60%
and
it's
always
bounced
between
those
two
two
figures.
C
Certainly,
the
leprous
on
Thursday
seen
an
office
on
internet
of
mult
progressive
model.
We
can
see
that
the
the
number
of
reports
that
we
received
by
the
Internet
is
growing
this
year
it
was
75
percent.
Last
year
was
69
percent
two
years
ago
it
was
65
percent.
So
certainly
we
we
tribute
some
of
that
to
the
fact
that
people
are
are
moving
that
way,
but
certainly
the
the
changes
that
we
made
to
the
website
to
make
it
mobile-friendly,
we
believe,
would
contribute
to
that
as
well.
C
We,
over
the
last
two
years
we
made
some
changes
to
the
look
of
the
fraud
and
waste
that
line
the
we
began
by
making
some
changes
to
the
look
on
the
on
the
website
itself,
making
it
it
was
starting
to
look
dated.
It
was
15
years
old,
and
now
it
looks,
it's
got
a
little
fresher
look
and
there's
been
increased,
as
we
promised
last
year,
there's
been
increased
promotion
of
of
the
line
during
2018.
C
There
was
a
new
poster
that
was
designed
the
first
time
the
poster
the
poster
was
was
printed
in
15
years
and
that
was
distributed
across
the
city
this
past
year
and
one
of
the
things
that
that
we
do
with
our
auditors
is
their
responsibility
when
they're
in
a
particular
part
of
the
city
doing
their
audits.
One
of
their
responsibilities
is
to
look
to
see
that
the
the
posters
are
there.
The
committee
will
recall
the
when
we
talked
about
the
the
incidents
that
happened
at
the
long-term
care
facility.
C
C
The
other
thing
that
report
mr.
Chia
we
report
every
year.
Mr.
chair
is
the
number
of
investigations
that
are
outstanding
and
you
can
see
that,
as
of
the
end
of
2017,
there
were
about
four
reports
outstanding
and
at
the
end
of
twenty
2018,
there's
a
small
type
of
one.
That's
green
I'm!
Sorry!
Well,
it's
been
corrected
on
the
screen,
but
not
on
my
document
here.
C
So,
as
you
can
see
at
the
end
of
the
year,
there
was
about
the
same
number
of
outstanding,
which
means
that
were
there
being
investigated
at
the
same
rate
that
they're
arriving,
which
is
which
is
good
a
number
of
years
ago
at
committee
we
talked
about
identifying
in
greater
detail
the
resolution
of
some
of
the
reports.
After
our
after
the
investigation
was
completed
and
in
2018
27
of
the
reports
or
15
percent
of
them
were
fully
substantiated
36
or
about
19%
of
them
were
found
to
be
accurate.
C
In
other
words,
the
reporter
was
reporting
something
that
was
absolutely
correct,
but
the
activity
that
they
saw
was
compliant
with
city
policies.
There
was
no
there's,
no
wrongdoing,
54
reports,
54
reports
are
about
20
'it,
just
about
a
third
of
them.
A
quarter
of
them
were
did
not
give
enough
information
for
us
to
to
to
ensure
that
an
investigation
would
complain,
and
in
most
of
those
in
in
almost
all
of
those
cases,
though,
those
reports
don't
go
any
farther
than
our
office.
C
53
were
found
to
be
not
applicable,
and
those
people
would
be
ones
that
we
would
send
on
to
another
organization
or
ones
that
are
being
sent
to
us,
and
it's
not.
It
might
be
something
that
applies
to
the
federal
government.
For
example,
fully
24
were
found
to
be
inaccurate
and
I
can
tell
you
that
the
substantially
level
of
substantiation
is
is
a
little
bit
higher
than
the
industry
average,
which
is
9
to
10
percent,
we're
seeing
15%.
C
So
what
kind
of
items
arose
from
the
hotline?
Mr.
chair
news
not
report
on
a
date
icon,
so
narlikar
I
yell,
the
the
Zelig
a
co-founder,
for
example,
qnet
a
firm
a
on
the
Middle
East.
With
this
information
illimitable
provide
enemies.
A
disposition
to
table
protocol
that
we
provide
is
individual
detail
$1
for
me,
I
can,
without
going
into
too
much
detail.
C
So
with
that
limitation,
here
are
some
of
the
substantiated
reports
that
we
closed
last
year
under
the
category
of
unauthorized
use
or
misuse
of
city
property
or
time
there
was
a
small
number
of
employees
that
have
worked
a
unique
work
schedule
since
2012
that
that
wasn't
to
properly
set
up
in
the
payroll
system,
as
such
certain
statutory
holidays
occurred
when
certain
when
a
certain
statutory
always
occurred.
Some
of
the
employees
took
a
flex
day,
resulting
in
overpayments
of
approximately
seventy
one
hundred
dollars
the
recovery.
C
The
overpayment
has
been
arranged
and
all
employees
have
been
removed
from
this.
This
work
schedule.
The
payroll
system
now
properly
reflects
the
the
work
that
they
do
and
they're
they're
being
paid
appropriately
in
the
city,
purchased
six
trucks
and
attachments
to
plow
snow
and
spread
salt
on
OC
Transpo
properties.
Prior
to
putting
the
trucks
in
service,
it
was
found
that
once
attachments
were
installed,
the
vehicles
front
axles
were
overloaded
and
the
vehicles
couldn't
perform
the
work
that
they
were
purchased
for
with
the
the
equipment
that
was
purchased
for
them.
C
This
situation
occurred
because
the
city
created
chart
used
to
access
vehicle
weight,
capacities
was
incomplete
and
not
all
required.
Technical
specifications
have
been
included
in
the
request
for
tender
used
to
purchase
the
trucks.
As
a
result,
the
attachments
had
to
removed
from
these
vehicles
and
six
additional
replacement
trucks
were
purchased
and
retrofitted.
With
the
original
attachments.
The
oversight
resulted
in
additional
cost
to
the
city
of
about
eighty
eighty,
two
thousand
dollars
primarily
due
to
the
cost
of
removing
the
attachments
from
one
brand
of
vehicles
installing
them,
then,
on
another
brand.
C
In
future,
the
vehicles
were
Reaper
in
future
fleet
services
will
oversee
OC,
transpose
operational
support
and
maintenance
vehicle
purchases.
To
prevent
this
from
happening
again,
an
employee
was
taking
a
city
vehicle
to
their
private
residence
without
authorization
and,
as
a
result,
the
the
individual
with
their
supervisor
submitted
a
vehicle
taxable
benefit
form
and
the
personal
use
of
the
vehicle
is
now
added
to
the
employees.
T
fours
increasing
increasing
their
personal
income
for
the
benefit
of
accessing
a
city
vehicle
under
the
category
of
violation
of
laws,
regulations,
policies
or
procedures.
C
A
residential
property
owner
was
residing
in
their
home
without
an
occupancy
permit,
Building
Code
service
has
got
involved
and
an
outstanding
inspection
was
performed
and
an
occupancy
permit
was
issued
without
an
occupancy
permit.
The
value
of
the
property
is
understated
on
the
tax
rolls
and
that
individual
is
not
paying
their
fair
share
of
the
of
the
of
taxes
in
another
instance,
because
it's
a
property
owners,
responsibility
to
replace
or
install
sewer
service
connections
on
private
property
and
to
have
these
connections
inspected
by
city
staff.
C
A
resident
obtained,
valid
permits
for
plumbing
and
Road
cut
work
to
connect
to
the
city
sanitary
sewer
system.
Two
years
later,
the
required
inspections
had
not
been
done.
The
resident
was
directed
to
obtain
the
outstanding
inspections
and,
depending
on
the
circumstances
and
location,
it
might
be
an
instance
where
the
individual
is
not
paying
their
fair
share
of
of
the
costs.
Two
of
the
the
sewer
sewage
treatment
costs.
C
There
was
an
organization
that
was
that
wasn't
registered
as
a
non-profit
and
they
received
a
subsidized
rental
rate
that
was
corrected
in
in
recreational
services
in
another
department,
a
manager
hired
family
members
and
contravention
with
city
policies
and
procedures
and
in
violation
of
the
union
agreement.
A
letter
of
warning
was
given
to
the
manager
and
refresher
training
was
given
to
all
supervisors
in
the
area
under
the
category
of
alcohol
or
drug
abuse
or
other
substance
abuse.
There
was
a
case
where
two
city
employees
were
regularly
smoking
cannabis
in
a
city
vehicle
during
work
hours.
C
C
Under
the
category
of
theft,
there
were
five
instances
of
theft,
an
employee
who
processed
cash
receipts
stole
money,
an
ongoing
basis.
It's
estimated
that
the
loss
was
about
two
thousand
dollars:
the
employee
resigned
and
management
initiated
review
of
controls
in
that
area.
In
another
instance,
an
employee
committed
theft
of
about
eleven
hundred
dollars.
Once
again,
the
employee
resigned
and
agreed
to
a
repayment
agree
to
repay
the
city
and
sure
the
former
employee
failed
to
pay
the
agreement.
C
Because
of
other
failures
in
their
performance
of
duties,
there
was
a
further
loss
of
of
another
six
hundred
dollars.
The
processes
and
controls
in
that
area
were
changed
and
because
of
an
arbitration
between
the
Union
and
the
city,
the
results
of
the
arbitration
are
confidential.
The
City
of
Ottawa
superannuation
fund-
this
is
for
old
and
old
employees
of
the
former
City
of
Ottawa
was
not
advised
of
the
death
of
a
pensioner,
resulting
in
an
86
thousand
dollar
overpayment.
A
repayment
schedule
was
agreed
to
and
payments
have
commenced
if
the
greet
schedule
is
not
respected.
C
The
city
as
the
right
to
pursue
legal
action
with
the
individual,
the
City
of
Ottawa
superannuation
fund,
has
changed
the
processes,
and
the
committee
will
remember
that
we
added
an
audit
of
the
City
of
Ottawa
superannuation
fund
to
our
2000
19
audit
work
plan.
We
are
just
in
the
processes
of
finishing
that
audit
and
we'll
be
debriefing
staff
on
that
shortly,
which
means
that
you
should
see
this
later
in
the
fall
in
one
incident.
A
resident
provided
the
city
with
two
quotes
to
repair
damages
that
were
allegedly
caused
by
a
city
vehicle
to
their
property.
C
An
employee
committed
criminal
misconduct
against
a
resident
of
a
city's
long-term
care
facility
and
the
employee
was
terminated,
an
employee
verbally
abused,
a
resident
of
the
city,
long-term
care
facility
and
was
terminated,
and
then
you
recall
the
three
separate
reports
that
we
presented
out
of
committee
in
2018:
the
review
of
medication
management,
the
investigation
into
the
reporting
of
an
incident
at
a
City
of
Ottawa,
long-term
care
and
then
a
review
of
the
city's
practice
practices
for
the
procurement
of
commercial
vehicles.
So
in
summary,
mr.
C
chair
and
members
of
the
committee,
the
hotline
is
a
best
practice.
It's
clear
that
it's
still
well
received
by
the
public
and
the
staff
and
the
significant
value
of
the
fraud
and
wast
hotline
is
that
it
continues
to
contribute
to
the
improvement
of
the
estimate.
Ethical
culture
of
the
city,
and
we
will
continue
management,
has
has
also
committed
to
increasing
the
publication
of
the
fraud
waste
hotline
and
expect
to
have
continued
response
from
staff
and
and
residents
in
the
future
Thank
You.
Mr.
chair.
That
concludes
our
presentation.
C
A
G
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Mr.
chair
and
just
a
question
to
the
auditor
has
been
a
former
businessman.
We
always
count
for
obviously
it's
not
necessarily
fraud,
but
it's
a
waste
waste
in
the
business
that
every
business
has
percentage
of
waste
and
and
I
understand.
This
is
a
taxpayers
dollar
and
we
are
the
custodians
of
the
taxpayers
money,
but
in
in
your
in
your
opinion,
is,
is
the
city
is
well
Ron?
Consider
we
are
three
point:
six
billion
dollar
budget
we
receive
so
much
money
or
smelly
in
in
cash
and
other
like
in
comparison.
G
When
you
talk
about
you
have
17,000
employee
between
full-time
and
a
part-time.
You
think
we
have
a
fundamental
issue
here
or
do
you
think
this
is
compared
to
other
large
municipality
of
our
size
well
with
because
we
don't
have
the
the
the
Ombudsman
Shiell
comparable,
so
I'm
asking
you,
have
you
check
with
other
municipality
of
our
size
and
see?
Where
do
we
fit?
One
comes
to
this
thing.
C
C
C
Why
is
another
manager
and
another
municipality
delivering
a
similar
activity
able
to
deliver
something
for
less
than
then
I
can
in
my
municipality
and
in
some
cases
there
are
things
that
are
available
to
them
that
aren't
available
to
you,
but
but
by
focusing
on
where
the
differences
are
that's
when
you
can
become
better
and
at
the
at
the
very
least,
what
you
should
be
looking
at
is
comparing,
if
you're
not
going
to
look
outside
the
city
and
I.
My
suggestion
is
that
everyone
should
compare
themselves
to
their
to
their
peers
and
other
municipalities.
C
What
can
we
do
now
that
our
activity
is
is
higher
than
it
used
to
be?
So
that's
a
long
way
of
answering
your
question.
I
believe
that
in
any
organization,
there's
always
opportunity
to
be
more
efficient,
but
only
if
people
are
constantly
comparing
themselves
and
asking
themselves
what
improvements
they
can
make
to
be
more
efficient,
I.
G
Cannot
agree
with
you
more
about
this,
but
what
I'm
really
trying
to
try
to
do
to
put
our
contact
is:
is
our
municipality,
the
size
of
our
city,
the
size
of
our
budget,
the
size
of
our
employee
compared
to
other
practice
and
other
municipality
of
our
size?
Where
do
we
fit?
Are
we
in
in
good
position
or
where
are
we
in
the
hey?
This
is
important.
No
longer
we
contribute
to
the
Army's
report,
so
we
don't
know
what
other
municipality
of
our
size
are
are
doing
and
I'm
interested
in
this
and
and
and
I
know.
G
Sometimes
we
read
something
about
you
know
is
some
an
efficient
way
happen
and
I'm
pretty
sure
anyone
been
in
business
will
understand.
Sometimes
you
make
the
wrong
purchase,
or
sometimes
you
make
mistake
or
somebody.
Sometimes,
your
staff
burned
a
half
a
dozen
Pizza.
Whatever
the
case
might
be,
we
understand
when
you
run
a
business
or
when
you
run
a
corporation
there
is
some
loss
somewhere.
I
want
to
know.
Where
do
we
fit
in
comparable
to
other
municipality,
whether
in
Ontario
or
in
Canada
doesn't
matter?
If
we
know
that
information
well.
C
C
It
was
a
good
idea
that
got
a
little
stale
and
you
know
I
know
I
know.
For
example,
at
the
very
beginning,
the
first
there
were
a
number
of
managers
that
that
went
out
to
come
to
compare
themselves
against
their
their
peers
and
when
that,
when
they
found
that
there
were
some
municipalities
that
they
just
couldn't
compare
to,
because
the
differences
were
so
great,
they
just
focused
on
a
small
part
of
a
B
and
dropping
out
of
aam
B.
Is
it
was
a
decision
that
was
made?
C
Maybe
it
should
have
been
a
selective
that
there,
but
that
there's
material
still
available
that
can
be
reviewed
and
can
be
used
without
without
participating
in
B,
but
there's
nothing
wrong
with
with
managers
of
the
city
contacting
their
peers
and
other
municipalities.
If
it's
important
to
them
and
asking
asking
information
of
those
other
municipalities,
they
see
them
at
conferences.
C
B
Thank
you
just
one
question
and
I
I,
don't
know
if
maybe
you're
the
person
to
ask
mr.
Hughes
is
the
reports
submitted
by
employees
in
2019
management
reported
six
such
cases
to
the
fraud
of
mismanagement
or
fraud
to
the
fraud
hotline.
I'm
wondering
why
would
management
report
to
the
fraud
hotline?
Wouldn't
they
just
take
discipline
themselves.
C
Management
is
is
required
by
the
okay
by
the
policy
to
report
it.
One
of
the
things
that
that
we
could
probably
refine
in
that
policy
is
is
a
time
period.
For
example,
there
was
a
delay
in
reporting
Lee
the
theft
at
Meridian
theater.
Certainly
a
timely
report
would
have.
It
may
not
have
changed
the
outcome,
but
it
it
certainly
increases
the
likelihood
that.
B
C
The
discipline
the
discipline
activity
always
resides
with
manager
that
that
doesn't
that
doesn't
come
out
of
our
office
at
all.
So
they
report
the
incident
we
decide
if
we're
going
to
participate
in
the
investigation
in
the
case
of
Meridian
at
Centrepointe
we
did,
but
we
don't
participate
in
in
the
Disciplinary.
B
E
Missy
I
wanted
to
talk
about
the
of
all
the
things
that
that
were
reported.
Probably
the
most
significant
one
was
on
the
long
term
care
and
it
doesn't
really
fall
under
I.
Don't
consider
it
fraud
or
it's
it's
it's
to
do
with
the
you
know,
just
human
dignity
and
it's
a
it's
actually
a
crime
I
was
that
one
that
came
it
was
that
one
that
came
that
was
came
from
the
public
that
was
reporting
from
the
public.
It
wasn't
to
not
in
that
particular
one.
Mr.
C
Chair
there
were
a
number
of
activities
that
that
took
place
in
long
term
care
at
the
time
and
there
was
a
report
to
us
through
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline
that
was
that
came
in
around
the
time
where
there
were
a
number
of
other
reports
in
the
media
about
what
was
going
on
at
the
long-term
care
and
when
we
were
in
the
long-term
care
investigating
the
reporting
of
the
the
assault.
We
noticed
ourselves
that
there
were
poor
controls
over
the
handling
and
medication.
C
E
C
E
This
is
a
good
to
know.
It's
one
thing
that
we're
looking
that
I'd
like
to
see
looked
into,
because
there
are
programs
out
there
about
improving
the
situation,
for
example
that
the
butterfly
model-
and
hopefully
these
can
resolve
some
of
these
issues.
So
it's
good
to
you
know
to
have
something
to
look
into
like.
Obviously,
we
have
to
do
something
different
and
I
appreciate
that
this
was
looked
into.
I.
E
Think
that
the
this
is
important
just
to
have
this
feature
just
to
give
the
public
you
know
the
opportunity
to
feel
like
they
can
participate,
even
if
they're
wrong.
You
know,
in
terms
of
the
you
know,
misunderstanding
what
is
fraud
or
waste
I?
Think
it's
good
just
to
have
those
clarification,
so
I
think
if
nothing
else,
it's
a
very
educational
tool
in
terms
of
letting
us
know
what
what
is
within
the
city
and-
and
maybe
we
do
have
to
rethink
things
sometimes.
But
I
really
appreciate
and
thank
you
for
the
report.
F
F
Is
there
other
parts
of
the
city
that
are
doing
their
own
fleet
management
or
have
we
not
started
because
there
was
an
earlier
audit
to
do
with
fleet
management
as
well
and
I
thought
we
were
trying
to
make
a
move
towards
the
fleet
match
would
be
involved
in
the
procurement
process
in
some
way,
shape
or
form?
Is
that
not
the
case?
Is
there
still
areas
that
are
doing
their
own
thing
without
the
value
of
their
expertise?.
H
So,
for
the
most
part,
I'm
gone
nel
director
of
fleet
services,
so
for
the
most
part
we
take
care
of
almost
all
acquisitions
for
the
entire
city.
Now
there
are
some
exceptions
like
police,
for
example,
at
their
home.
They
have
their
own
provincial
procurement
process,
that's
very
efficient
and
they
don't
need
us,
but
with
the
exception
of
buses
and
those
police
vehicles,
we
pretty
much
take
care
of
everything
else.
So.
F
Just
what
parts
are
that
part?
So,
when
you're
doing
a
purchase
for
say
any
department,
they
tell
you
what
they
need?
Do
they
also
help?
You
would
like
the
the
requirements
from
that
department,
because
I
don't
want
to
see
it
move
a
hundred
percent
under
you,
because
there
is
a
value
that,
for
example,
OC
Transpo
can
add
to
what
they
need
in
there
are
certain
vehicles
or
you
know
if
the
day
comes,
where
you
have
oversight
over
the
police.
Obviously
the
the
the
police
fleet
management,
obviously
there
their
input
would
be
very
valuable
to
that.
H
Generally,
yes,
so
annually
we
go
through
every
piece
of
equipment.
The
entire
city
could
reach
out
to
each
one
of
the
management's
managers
of
those
areas
make
sure
we
understand
those
vehicles
to
do
for
replacement
or
do
they
still
meet
your
need.
We
make
sure
we
get
their
updated
needs
and
then
we
move
forward
with
procurement.
After
that.
F
F
chair,
if
I
could
that
this
is
one
of
my
favorite
reports
that
we
receive
every
year
because
to
me
what
this
shows
the
taxpayer
is
the
auditor-general
and
we
as
a
council
take
their
concerns
very
seriously
and
I,
don't
put
it
on
a
scale
of
if
you're,
looking
at
a
loss
of
$20
or
a
loss
of
20
million
dollars,
it's
still
taxpayers
money
and
to
them
it's
very
important
that
we
be
responsible
for
it.
So
I
appreciate
the
report
that
you
do
here.
I
also
think
I'd
like
to
acknowledge
with
mr.
F
Kent
lacus
as
well,
because
I
know
the
work
that
he's
done
with
your
office
to
make
the
whole
process
work
a
little
better,
as
you
mentioned
earlier.
One
of
the
other
questions
about
the
reporting
between
management
and
the
AG
I
think
the
public
should
know
that.
There's
a
really
good
level
of
cooperation
there
and
the
fact
that
you
have
the
city
manager
and
the
AG
paying
attention
to
these
files
that
come
in
whatever
the
the
scale
of
the
file
is
I.
Think
that
sends
a
very
important
message
to
taxpayers.
F
A
You
councillor
hubli
and
thank
you
all
a
couple
of
questions.
Is
there
anyone
here
who
can
answer
questions
from
property
standards
or
permits?
My
question
to
staff?
My
question
is
on
page
8
of
the
report,
two
items,
the
third
and
fourth
item
deal
with
permits
and
an
occupancy
permit
and
a
road
cut
permit
and
and
residents
who
moved
in
and
who
didn't
follow
up.
A
My
question
to
staff
is:
what
is
the
system
within
the
City
of
Ottawa
to
follow
up
on
open
permits
so
that
we
do
the
inspections
that
are
required
so
that
the
correct
property
taxes
are
charged
and
in
on
the
fourth
item,
so
that
the
again,
the
installation
of
a
sewer
service
connection
from
a
private
property
to
the
city
services
is
properly
inspected?
Hello?
A
H
Chair
hi,
I'm,
Corkery
manager,
the
right
away,
I'll
just
speak
to
the
right,
Road
cut
permits
that
were
involved
in
those
two
specific
instances.
As
committee
may
know,
we
recently
redid
our
Road
activity
bylaw
three
months
ago,
I
was
before
council
and
so
as
a
results.
We
put
all
new
business
processes
in
place
as
of
Canada
Day
this
year,
we're
in
the
process
now
of
rolling
those
out
this
week,
and
we
now
have
a
standards
service
timeline
of
five
days
for
an
inspection
permit
and
then
they're
reviewed
twice
over.
A
H
A
A
C
Chair,
as
we
indicated
about
half
of
the
half
of
the
reporters,
come
back
and
look
at
the
report
to
see
if
at
the
system,
to
see
if
there's
any
communication
from
us,
but
there
are
some
people
that,
after
they
submit
the
report,
in
spite
of
the
fact
that
we
ask
for
more
information,
we
never
hear
from
them
and
it's
it's
or
there
are
instances
where
people
have
no
more
information
and
we've
had
instances
where
people
say
you've
got
enough.
I
don't
want
to
give
you
any
more
information.
C
C
They
you
know
at
the
at
the
input
stage,
whether
it's,
whether
the
person
has
called
them
the
telephone
center
or
whether
they're
doing
it
via
the
web,
there's
a
whole
series
of
questions
that
they're
taken
through
that
they
can
respond
to
and
if
they
don't
put
any
information
in
about,
for
example,
you
know
what
was
the
vehicle
you
know
what
street
was
it
on?
Do
you
have
a
license
number?
Do
you
have
a
vehicle
number?
C
If
they
don't
tell
us
what
part
of
the
city
they
saw,
somebody
doing
something
in
a
city
vehicle,
then
it's
in
spite
of
the
fact
that
they're
asked
to
provide
addresses
and
all
these
other
things,
some
people,
whether
it's
because
they're
doing
it
quickly
or
whether
it's
because
they
don't
have
that
information
in
so
many.
You
know
25%
of
the
cases
we
just
don't
know
why
that
are
not
providing
us
all
of
the
information
and.