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From YouTube: Audit Committee - Tuesday, February 22, 2022
Description
Audit Committee - Agenda 15 - Tuesday, February 22, 2022
Agenda and supporting documents available at www.ottawa.ca/agendas
B
D
A
B
A
A
A
Thank
you
for
that,
so
you
have
been
briefed
on
this
report.
I
believe,
as
part
of
your
board,
and
I
don't
believe
that
is
a
conflict
in
any
way.
If
there's
anyone
from
the
clerk's
office
that
have
you
connected
with
the
clerk's
office
to
see
if
there
was
any
reason
you
could
not
participate
fully
in
this
meeting,
I.
C
A
A
Madam
vice
chair,
thank
you,
confirmed
good,
and
so
we
are
on
item
number
one:
the
2021
reported
on
the
front
ways:
hotline
there
is
the
presentation,
and
so
we
will
hold
that
item
item
number
two:
the
report
on
the
zero
emission
buses.
There
is
a
presentation
and
we
will
hold
that
item
item
number
three:
the
report
of
the
audit,
the
audit
audit
of
auto
community
housing
development
and
renewal
plan.
There
is
no
presentation
we
do
have
donna
gray
and
saeed
saya
available
to
ask
questions.
A
Does
do
any
members
of
the
committee
or
of
council
who
might
be
present?
Have
questions
on
item
number?
Three
counselor
kavanaugh,
you
do
very
well,
so
we
will
hold
that
item
and
item
number
four
and
verbal
status,
update
of
the
oeg's
progress
and
reviewing
outstanding
recommendation,
and
there
is
a
presentation,
so
all
items
will
be
held
back
to
number
one.
B
B
H
H
First
and
foremost,
all
city
staff
are
responsible
for
reporting
violations
of
fraud
and
waste,
as
outlined
in
the
fraud
and
waste
policy
and
in
accordance
with
the
city's
employee
code
of
conduct.
When
allegate,
when
an
allegation
is
received
through
the
hotline.
My
office
first
assesses
the
allegations
merit
and
determines
whether
my
office
or
management
is
best
suited
to
complete
an
investigation
for
reports
that
we
forward
to
management
for
investigation.
H
H
These
301
unique
reports
made
to
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline,
represent
a
48
increase
compared
to
2021.
it's
roughly,
as
you
can
see
in
the
chart
over
100
more
cases
than
the
previous
three
years.
The
total
number
of
reports
made
in
2021
so
taking
that
575
number
of
reports
that
we
received
represents
a
182
increase
from
the
previous
year.
H
H
The
31
reports
substantiate
equate
to
26
of
all
investigative
reports
that
were
closed
this
year.
What
is
very
important
to
note
is,
while
we
received
significantly
more
cases
in
2021,
the
number
of
substantiated
reports
is
similar
to
previous
years.
In
2020,
there
were
27,
substantiated
cases
45
in
2019
and
27
in
2018..
H
H
The
existence
of
the
city's
fraud
and
waste
program
discourages
those
that
may
be
considering
unethical,
fraudulent
or
wasteful
activities
and
prevents
future
losses.
This
year
reports
have
assisted
management
in
strengthening
the
city's
control
environment
and
serve
to
improve
the
city's
operations.
B
B
A
C
C
H
Thank
you
for
your
question.
Counselor,
chair,
what's
important
to
note
is,
as
I
mentioned,
any
report
that's
made
through
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline
is
an
anonymous
report.
While
the
reporter
can
provide
us,
for
example,
an
email
address,
we
wouldn't
necessarily
have
access
to
being
able
to
see
what
that
email
address
is.
So
I
would
not
be
able
to
state
of
any
particular
nature
whether
it's
coming
from
an
individual,
multiple
individuals,
a
group
of
individuals,
we'd
likely
be
speculating.
So
for
those
301
cases
I
would
state
I.
H
A
H
Sure,
yes,
that
is
correct,
so
there
is
both
a
hotline
that
you
can
call
as
well
as
a
website
that
you
can
go
to
to
provide
feedback.
Now
there
are
instances
where
we
may
receive
complaints
or
reports
directly
through
our
office
that
get
added
into
our
tally
that
you
see
here
or
in
some
cases
management
will
bring
something
to
our
attention.
That's
been
brought
to
their
attention,
but,
generally
speaking,
the
majority
of
the
cases
will
either
come
through
the
hotline
itself
or
through
the
online
intake
portal.
E
H
Thank
you
for
your
question.
Counselor
and
chair
I'd
be
speculating
if
I
really
stated
anything
as
I
mentioned
last
year.
My
assumption
is
that
the
pandemic
likely
is
having
an
impact,
but
usually
for
us,
us
auditors,
in
order
to
determine
a
trend
or
a
pattern
of
some
sort.
We
usually
need
a
good
three
years
to
determine
that.
So
I
think
the
bigger
question
would
be
if
we
saw
a
decline
after
the
pandemic.
We'd
likely
be
able
to
conclude.
E
H
Thank
you
for
your
question.
Counselor
chair.
I
I
anticipated
this
question
coming
up
and
for
two
reasons.
Unfortunately,
I
can't
give
any
additional
comment,
one
due
to
obviously
the
anonymity
of
individuals
that
could
be
reporting
through
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline
and,
second
of
all,
the
investigation,
almost
274
was
not
complete
as
of
the
end
of
2021.
E
H
E
A
The
the
anonymity
aspect
is
is
quite
an
important
aspect
of
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline,
and
sometimes
perhaps
even
the
auditor
general
cannot
identify
some
of
the
individuals
but
that
counselor
kavanaugh,
if
they're,
if
they're.
If
you
have
questions,
perhaps
you
could
take
it
offline
or,
if
need
be,
go
in
camera.
I
would
look
for
advice
from
the
aeg
and
from
the
clerk's
office
to
to
proceed
on
that,
but.
E
If
you're,
looking
at
that,
yeah
I'm
not
trying
to
take
away
from
the
anonymity,
I
I'm
it's
more
just
the
nature
of
the
the
calls
or
or
complaints,
because
I
think
it's
important
for
us
to
know.
If,
if
there's
one
particular
thing
that
keeps
getting
repeatedly
called
for
that,
that's
what
I
sort
of
feel
is
useful
to
know
like
it.
It's
like
you
know
somebody
if
you
had
10
000
signatures
on
a
petition,
it's
it's
all
the
same,
but
you
know
they're
all
for
the
same
reason,
so
I
thought
maybe
it
was.
E
A
Noted,
okay,
I
think
when
I
read
the
report
and
I've
just
looked
at
it
sometimes
and
and
in
the
report
the
the
confluence
had
to
do
with
covet
19,
I'm
trying
to
find
it
again.
Madame
eg,
maybe
you
can
assist
me.
You
had
provided
a
bit
of
a
summary
there
in
that
report
as
to
what
the
the
nature
of
it
use
and
abuse
of
the
city
assets.
Some
covet,
19
related
related
items,
I'm
just
trying
to
find
it.
I
can't.
E
E
Yeah
I've
got
it
open
and
the
report
has
unauthorized
use
of
property
information
and
time
is
94.
and
yes,
so
that's
pretty
high
and
yeah.
I
I
think
we
can
imagine
that
that's
related
to
people
working
at
home,
perhaps
and
but
that's
what
that's
that's
what
I'm
curious
about.
So
it's
you
know
going
forward.
Does
that
what
does
that
mean?
But
if
they're
not
substantiated,
then
then
it's
not
to
worry
about
yeah
with.
A
A
E
C
Hey
mr
chair,
yes,
we
have
a
work
from
home
policy,
mr
chair,
that
was
adjusted
to
reflect
people
working
from
home
and
we've
had
training
for
our
supervisors
and
our
managers
in
terms
of
monitoring
it
to
ensure
that
people
are
actually
working
from
home.
There's
always
going
to
be
a
few
that
you
know
slip
through
and
might
try
to
take
advantage
of
it,
but
that
has
not
been
our
our
experience
overall,
based
on
the
three
to
four
thousand
people
who
are
working
at
home
during
the
pandemic.
E
G
H
G
H
H
And
then
there
are
instances
where
something
may
look
arrive,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day
it
is
something
that
is
permitted.
It's
sometimes
you
know
if
it's
a
member
of
the
public,
that's
seeing
something.
They
may
only
understand
part
of
the
situation,
that's
ongoing.
If
somebody's
taking
their
vehicle
home,
that
might
be
a
permission,
that's
been
provided,
for
example,
and
so
I
I
think
part
of
it's
an
education
thing
is
to
informing
individuals
what's
appropriate.
H
H
A
We're
on
to
item
number
two
report
on
the
audit
of
zero
emission
buses.
There
is
a
presentation
by
madame
and
deputy
author
general
gorenstein,
I
believe,
and
just
for
the
information
of
of
our
committee
members
and
other
council
members,
jim
greer,
madame
amelcar
is
here.
I
saw
her
and
I
have
on
my
list
dan
vinov
available
to
answer
questions.
D
Thank
you
very
much
good
morning,
chair
vice
chair
and
members
of
the
audit
committee.
I
am
pleased
to
be
here
today
to
present
the
results
of
the
xero
emissions
buses
audit.
Our
team
would
like
to
express
our
appreciation
for
the
continued
cooperation
and
assistance
afforded
to
us
by
the
city
manager
and
his
office
management
and
staff.
Next
slide,
please.
D
The
aim
would
be
to
phase
in
a
total
of
450
zero
emission
buses
by
2027
and
to
have
a
fully
electric
bus
fleet
by
2036.,
following
direction
from
the
transit
commission
staff
initiated
a
competitive
procurement
process
to
procure
four
battery
electric
buses
for
a
pilot
project,
delivery
and
pre-inspection
of
the
pilot
buses
was
completed
in
november
2021
and
the
pilot
buses
were
added
to
revenue
service
earlier
this
this
month.
Next
slide,
please.
D
This
included
activities
undertaken
by
the
city
to
assess
the
various
technologies
and
vendors
to
meet
the
city's
greenhouse
gas
emission
reduction
commitments
and
the
plans
made
as
of
the
audit
time
frame,
which
was
approximately
october
2021,
to
evaluate
the
bus
technology
against
operational
requirements
of
the
city
of
ottawa
through
its
pre-planning
and
pilot
project.
Next
slide,
please:
the
audit
of
zero
emission
buses
leverage
an
agile
audit
approach.
D
The
audit
aim
to
provide
independent
and
objective
opinions
before
key
decisions
are
made,
and
agreements
and
funding
arrangements
are
signed.
It's
important
to
note
that
the
oag
is
not
advising
management.
We
are
auditing
work
once
it
has
been
completed
by
staff
in
order
to
help
council
make
informed
decisions.
D
The
audit
confirmed
that
a
thorough
technical,
eval
evaluation
exercise
was
conducted
as
part
of
the
procurement
of
the
four
pilot
buses,
where
the
performance
requirements
defined
for
the
buses
are
aligned
with
key
variables
and
parameters
of
industry,
research
bodies
and
a
sample
of
other
comparable
municipal
implementations,
including
toronto.
Montreal
and
edmonton.
D
The
first
area
was
business
proposition
and
feasibility
based
on
planned
procurement
timelines.
There
will
not
be
enough
time
to
implement
the
four
bus
pilot
project
across
all
seasons,
to
assess
the
results
and
identify
technical
findings
and
recommendations
in
order
to
provide
input
into
the
procurement
of
the
next
group
of
74.
Electric
buses
planned
for
mid-2022.
D
The
implementation
of
the
next
group
of
zero
emission
buses
is
a
large
operational
task,
considering
there
is
limited
time
to
analyze
actual
performance
data
related
to
charging
requirements
range
and
climate
performance
from
the
initial
four
pilot
buses
without
sufficient
planning
time
to
consider
technology.
This
would
be
both
bus
and
charging
infrastructure
tools,
training,
route,
scheduling,
garage
readiness
and
approaches
to
charging
the
buses.
D
D
While
the
city
and
pilot
project
stakeholders
expressed
the
intention
to
perform
tests
and
informed
the
audit
team
of
the
potential
testing
scenarios
for
the
pilot
buses,
a
formal
plan
or
template
to
test
the
buses
against
specific
variables,
which
are
also
called
controlled,
engineering
testing,
was
not
in
place
during
our
audit
field.
Work,
these
tools
are
key
to
ensuring
a
proper
and
fulsome
evaluation
of
the
buses
and
to
assist
in
determining
the
operational
requirements
for
the
city
of
ottawa.
We
would
have
expected
these
to
have
been
developed
prior
to
receiving
the
pilot
buses
as
we
developed.
D
D
This
is
necessary
so
that
the
city
can
determine
what
elements
are
critical
and
how
to
monitor
them
to
ensure
the
pilot
buses
are
operating
in
line
with
expectations
during
the
development
of
our
audit
report,
management
informed
us
that
work
had
commenced
in
developing
in
the
development
of
a
zero
emission
bus
performance
evaluation
report
and
a
sorry
bus
performance
evaluation
approach
at
the
time.
Our
audit
report
was
drafted,
the
framework
was
still
under
development
and
specific
areas
and
associated
criteria
were
still
being
identified.
D
Fourth
and
final
area
was
project
management
for
the
pilot.
Although
project
management
was
not
in
scope
for
this
audit
sprint,
specific
opportunities
related
to
the
master
project
schedule
and
the
master
risk
register
were
identified
as
part
of
the
audit
which
were
raised
to
management
for
timely
resolution.
D
A
E
Thank
you
very
much
for
the
presentation
and
the
information.
This
is
a
bit
different
because
it's
not
looking
at
past
practices.
It's
forward
thinking,
so
we're
working
just
with
a
pilot
project
that
was
very
recent
and
trying
to
make
decisions
about
the
future
and,
as
we've
learned,
it's
really
important
to
get
it
right
because
you're
stuck
with
them
for
a
while.
E
D
J
J
Batteries
were
only
had
a
range
of
100
kilometers
in
the
past.
Now,
with
the
same
batteries,
we're
able
to
do
500
kilometers,
so
that's
a
huge
improvement
in
the
in
the
past
we
saw
a
trend
towards
rapid
charging
where
the
buses
would
be
recharged
at
at
several,
every
every
every
certain
number
of
stops,
and
now
what
we're
seeing
really
is
a
slow,
a
move
to
slow
charging
in
the
depots,
and
that
allows
us
to
to
extend
the
range
to
up
to
300
and
350
kilometers.
J
J
J
E
Thank
you.
Thank
you
for
a
follow-up
yeah.
I
I
am
interested
in
the
heating
of
the
buses,
and
I
understand
that
that's
diesel
and
that
that's
a
technology
that
keeps
evolving,
because
I
understand
that,
of
course,
with
our
winters,
we
need
the
heat
in
the
buses
and
I
just
wonder
how
that
is
affecting
our
decisions
as
well
of
you
know.
For
example,
the
pilot
buses
that
we
have
now
and
and
what's
available
for
the
future
is
that
technology,
evolving.
C
J
E
E
J
J
I
A
K
Thank
you
chair
a
few
questions
on
this.
I
appreciate
the
audit
for
sure,
as
residents
would
know,
we
didn't
have
a
good
experience
with
the
first
version
of
hybrid
buses,
so
I
don't
think
it's
any
secret
that
I
had
a
lot
of
concerns
with
going
ahead
with
this
project,
given
the
the
initial
experience
but
as
was
laid
out
by
wendy
and
and
others
at
the
time
council.
K
This
was
a
a
deal
being
offered
by
the
federal
government
for
the
first
municipality
that
was
willing
to
take
on
a
big
purchase
of
electric
buses.
So
we
didn't
have
a
lot
of
time
here
and
if
we
said
no,
that
would
be
fine.
We
could
continue
on
with
the
pilot
project
and
make
a
decision
later,
but
it
would
cost
taxpayers
more
so
I'll
be
the
first
to
say
it's
a
bit
of
a
gamble
to
get
this
done
without
the
pilot,
but
there
was
huge
financial
incentives
to
to
go
ahead
with
it.
J
As
a
conclusion,
I
would
say,
however,
that
over
and
above
testing
vehicles
and
testing
the
technology,
we
also
have
to
be
able
to
test
how
how
we,
how
we'll
be
able
to
plan
on
a
daily
basis
with
a
100
electric
fleet-
that's
something
we
have
to
look
into
so
as
soon
as
we
have
enough
buses
well,
we'll
be
able
to
actually
test
that
notion.
At
that
point,.
K
Okay
and
we've
had
them
on
the
road
now
here
in
ottawa
for
more
than
a
month,
correct,
miss
amacar
and
what's
what
are
we
seeing
so
far?
Are
they
performing
well,
you
know
in
the
extreme
cold,
we're
having
a
great
winter
for
testing
vehicles
in
ottawa
weather,
because
we've
had
the
extreme
cold
we've
had
the
major
snow
dumps.
How
are
these
buses
performed
in
those
conditions.
J
We
have
one
for
training
parties,
another
one
which
is
which
is
used
within
the
depot
for
training
and
the
others
are
working
very,
very
well,
there's
one.
We
have
an
issue
with,
but
it's
always
great
to
be
able
to
see
that
during
the
pilot
projects,
that's
when
you
want
to
actually
see
the
issues,
but
up
to
now
their
performance
has
been
very,
very
good.
K
Okay,
so
in
the
extreme
colds,
for
example,
do
we
know
how
badly
that
depleted
the
battery?
Are
we
watching
that,
like
we
expected
to
get
several
hundred
kilometers
on
a
charge
so
that
these
buses
could
be
used
on
at
least
our
smaller
routes?
Right
now,
are
we
seeing?
I
think
you
mentioned?
You
have
two
that
are
on
the
road
now,
how
did
those
batteries
perform
during
the
the
days
that
were
more
than
-25.
J
J
F
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
chair.
What
I
can
tell
you
is
that
we've
ran
these
buses
and
and
many
different
weather
events
recently
they've
been
out
minus
26
degree
weather
they've
they've.
The
range
was
314
kilometers,
so
our
test
range
and
expectations
were
250
kilometers,
so
they
exceeded
our
test
range.
We
put
approximately
17
000
kilometers
in
engineering
testing
so
far
since
october.
They
have
been
performing
well,
but
there
are
many
parallel
things
happening
at
the
same
time
which
we
have
four
buses
in
service.
Two
of
them.
Generally.
F
K
Okay,
thank
you.
Maybe
what
we
can
do
is
at
a
future
transit
meeting,
come
back
with
more
the
the
detailed
answers
as
to
how
this
is
going.
I
just
want
to
provide
some
context
here
for
what
we're
looking
for
out
of
the
pilot
project.
Is
these
kinds
of
metrics
how
good
they're
performing
in
the
extremes
you
know?
K
Hopefully,
this
summer
we
get
some
really
nice
hot
days
that
we
can
see
it
there,
because
it's
not
just
the
diesel
motor
for
the
heater
there's,
also
the
ac,
that
will
run
the
batteries
down
quick
and
we
got
to
see
what
that
does
to
our
delivery.
So
I
think
I,
I
think,
that'll.
Oh
one,
last
question
on
the
the
otter
piece.
There's
a
recommendation
here
to
consider
reducing
the
number
of
buses
planned
to
be
procured.
K
K
H
Thank
you.
I
just
wanted
to
perhaps
clarify
a
few
items
specifically
with
regards
to
the
timeline
council
hubli
that
you
just
mentioned.
As
madame
and
just
mentioned,
no
agreements
have
been
signed
to
date,
so
that
timeline
that
was
established
with
council
back
in
the
summer,
there's
obviously
been
some
time
saving
with
the
fact
that
the
federal
government
hasn't
moved
forward
with
the
program.
H
That
council
has
established
what
we're
trying
to,
if
I
may
be
so
bold,
to
say,
forborn
management
is
the
importance
of
appropriate
planning
with
these
types
of
massive
transformations
that
are
going
on,
and
I
think
that's
a
key
element
that
I
want
to
make
sure
is
clearly
understood
here.
We
want
to
help
management
be
set
up
for
success.
We
want
the
city
to
have
this
great
transformation
and
to
be
able
to
meet
those
sustainable
development
goals
that
have
been
established
by
councils.
H
I
think
it's
just
really
important
to
highlight
that
piece
that,
while
this
recommendation
is
asking
management
to
slow
down
and
to
reconsider
a
smaller
purchase
for
their
next
purchase
after
the
pilot
project
does
not
mean
that
they
would
not
be
able
to
achieve
their
goals
and
does
not
necessarily
mean
that
they
would
have
to
purchase
more
diesel
buses.
My
understanding
is
that
they
can
continue
to
maintain
some
of
the
diesel
buses
to
prolong
the
life
cycle
of
those
particular
buses.
G
I
just
wanted
to
follow
up
something
that
the
the
treasurer
had
mentioned,
that
there
is
a
time
frame
that
the
federal
government
had
set
out
in
order
for
us
to
purchase
the
buses
the
amount
of
money
that
we've
got.
Do
we
know
exactly
how
many
buses
we
can
purchase
with
the
amount
of
money
that
that
they're
they're,
giving
the
city.
J
100
for
the
deposit,
what
I'm
hearing
now
is
40
would
be
subsidized
and
the
other
share
would
be
raised
through
the
infrastructure
bank
and
the
cost
of
diesel
buses
that
we'd
normally
normally
buy.
So
we
would
have
to
turn
to
the
infrastructure
bank
to
fund
this.
Our
intention
is
to
buy
around
27
buses
we're
currently
using
diesel
buses
which
are
coming
to
the
end
of
the
life
cycle.
J
G
G
So
I'm
I
guess
my
question
is:
are
there
any
recommendations
into
staging
staging
and
not
and
keeping
some
of
our
diesel
buses
in
the
event
that
you
know
we
have
issues
with
the
electric
buses,
and
one
thing
we
didn't
follow
up
on
is
when
mr
greer
and
I
think
I
can't
remember
who
else
said
there
was
an
issue
with
one
of
the
buses
that
were
that's
in
the
pilot
right
now.
I'm
just
wondering
what
that
issue
is.
G
F
I
can
take
that
that
question
there
counselor
that
the
issue
is
right
now
is
where
we're
identifying
there's
an
interface
issue
between
the
battery
and
the
actual
charging
stations.
So
it
is
so
new
flyers
trying
to
determine
right
now
we
noticed
it
when
the
bus
was
going
for
a
charge,
it
wasn't
giving
a
full
charge
and
it
seems
to
be
an
interface
issue,
but
it's
definitely
being
looked
at
by
the
new
flyer.
Warranty
field
reps
and
they're
they're,
going
to
get
back
to
us
more
details
on
that.
F
G
G
F
G
J
Well,
thank
you
very
much.
Counselor
the
technology
for
articulated
buses
is
not
ready.
We
don't.
We
don't
have
any
manufacturers
really.
You
have
electric
articulated
buses.
So
for
the
time
being
we'll
be
focusing
on
the
40
foot,
buses
and,
of
course,
and
eventually
in
the
future,
we
will
have
a
call
for
tender
for
articulated
buses,
but
that's
not
in
the
cards
right
now.
G
The
this
one
of
the
big
storms
we
had
this
past
winter.
We
saw
our
articulated
buses
a
lot
of
them
stuck
in
snow
banks
stuck
on
roads,
and
if
you
talk
to
the
drivers,
as
I
have,
the
articulated
buses
are
not
built
to
handle
the
snow
in
the
city,
I'm
wondering,
if,
like
those
are,
if
we,
if
we
don't,
have
the
articulated
buses
going
to
be
tested
right
now
we're
not
going
to
have
a
part
of
our
pilot
project.
G
J
Well,
we
have
started
thinking
about
that
because
the
articulated
bosses
are
coming
to
the
end
of
their
life
cycles
before
the
40
feet,
40
foot
buses
and
we're
looking
at
buying
the
40
foot
buses
right
now.
So
we're
looking
at
this
issue
with
the
planning
and
engineering
teams
to
see
how
we
can
replace
a
couple
of
articulated
buses
with
the
40-foot
buses
and
perhaps
keep
some
articulated
buses
longer
than
planned.
J
G
Okay,
I
guess
that
goes
to
my
next
question-
is
the
the
cost
comparison
between
electric
buses
and
the
diesel
buses
that
we
currently
have?
The
cost
comparison,
I
think,
is
that
is
something
we
really
have
to
be
cons
serious
about.
So
we
don't
see
a
cost
comparison.
Yet.
Is
it
too
early
to
consider
that
I'm
talking
about
the
cost
of
the
cost
of
the
charging
stations,
the
cost
of
the
batteries
that
the
cost
of
you
know
recycling
the
batteries
that
cut?
All
of
that
will
we
have
a
cost
analysis.
B
B
This
is
also
something
that
we
are
working
with:
deloitte
the
financial
aspect,
but
until
we
test
them
it
will
be
a
little
more
difficult,
but
we
know,
for
instance,
what
happens
with
the
diesel,
but
it's
a
little
too
soon
now
to
know
exactly
the
cost
and
what
we
can
save.
But
we
know
in
theory
that
the
electric
buses
should
cost
less
in
maintenance
than
a
diesel
buses.
I
They
are
allowing
us
to
borrow
the
money,
which
is
basically
the
differential
between
the
cost
of
the
diesel
and
the
electric
bus
at
an
extremely
low
interest
rate,
which
is
one
percent,
and
we
are
only
required
to
pay
that
back
with
the
savings
that
we
have
as
a
result
of
it.
So
when
we
come
back
with
our
final
report
and
plan
to
move
forward,
we
will
outline
what
that
analysis
looks
like
so
you'll
have
the
full
picture
in
front
of
you
in
terms
of
this
making
sense.
I
G
G
Just
as
an
example
when
I
was
in
a
newsroom
and
all
of
a
sudden,
we,
we
decided
everything
we
got
from
typewriters
for
those
of
you
who
don't
know
the
typewriters,
it's
pretty
manual
go
to
typewriter
and
we
changed
over
to
computer
technology
and
when
everything
went
down
I
was
you
know,
there's
only
a
few
of
us
that
realized
that
we
had
typewriters
in
the
back
cupboard
and
had
to
pull
them
out
to
do
the
job.
So
my
concern
is
putting
our
eggs
all
in
one
basket.
G
I
think
that
it
might
be
prudent
to
stay
really
seriously,
stagger
this
program
to
continue
to
go
with
diesel
for
as
long
as
we
possibly
can
as
backup.
So
I
I
think
I'll
just
leave
that
for
now,
but
I
I
would
hope
that
that
is
going
to
be
a
recommendation
and
the
recommendation
to
go
slower
now,
I'm
gratified
to
see
that
we've
got
to
do
this
right.
This
is
a
major
purchase
and
a
major
change.
We've
got
to
do
it
right.
H
Okay,
that
is
correct.
Yes,
so
obviously
the
report
will
be
provided
to
cancel.
I
believe
that
the
march
9th
meeting
for
approval
of
the
recommendations
and
also
counselor
me
and
just
to
give
you
a
little
additional
reassurance.
Our
next
sprint
will
look
at
the
financial
model,
that's
being
assembled
so
looking
at
the
costing
and
looking
at
a
little
bit
of
of
the
link
with
regards
to
the
canadian
infrastructure
bank
loan
and
repayments,
there's
conditions
linked.
H
There
will
be
conditions
linked
in
those
agreements,
with
a
little
bit
of
the
costing
and
and
the
revenues
that
are
going
to
be
earned
from
those
particular
buses
once
they
come
into
service.
So
that's
something
that
we're
going
to
be
looking
at
in
our
in
our
next
sprint
right.
But,
as
you
mentioned,
I
I
do
think.
H
What
we're
asking
management
to
do
is
to
is
to
take
the
time
to
plan,
to
take
in
the
learnings
that
they're
getting
from
the
pilot
project
and,
as
you
just
mentioned,
counselor
meehan,
to
take
it
to
take
it
slow.
Essentially,
what
we're
looking
for
is
that
they
have
a
slow
transition
with
these
new
buses.
It
continues
to
allow
them
to
take
in
the
learnings,
and
that
way
the
impact
that
could
happen
on
on
ridership
is
lower
yeah.
G
Yeah,
absolutely
I
think
this
is
this
is
pivotal.
It's
really
pivotal,
because
we're
see
we're
going
to
see
major
changes
in
the
in
the
way
that
people
utilize
transit
in
the
city
going
forward.
So
you
know
purchasing
buses
with.
Maybe
past
data
may
not
be
the
wisest
thing
things
you
know
we
might
we'll
see
we'll
need
more
community
busing
we're
going
to
need
more
busing
on
demand
eventually.
G
A
Thank
you,
madam
vice
chair
and
you're,
absolutely
right
that
then
counselor
kavanagh.
I
do
see
your
hand
if
I
have
30
seconds.
You
know
the
full
life
cycle
cost,
and
you
mentioned
recycling
batteries
and
the
fixed
cost
of
setting
up
the
the
the
charging
stations
at
1500
centa,
and
all
of
that
you
know,
amortized
over
a
certain
expected
number
of
buses
is:
are
all
financial
costs
always
keeping
that
in
mind,
with
our
other
strategic
objectives,
of
reducing
our
ghgs
in
our
city
and
and
all
of
that,
all
of
that
we.
A
G
G
Also
welcome
the
input
of
the
drivers
in
this
because
they're
the
ones
who
are
dealing
with
trying
to
get
those
articulated
buses
out
of
snow
banks
and
up
roads,
and
I
think
we
have
to
we
have
to
ask
for
their
assistance
and
and
their
their
experience
with
the
buses.
I
think
that
we
have
to
that
would
be
doing
due
diligence
as
well,
so
so
just
hopefully
management
will
take
that
into
account.
So
thanks.
B
B
First,
in
2017,
montreal
purchased
three
electric
buses
with
quick
recharge
because
back
then
we
thought
it
was
the
future
that
is,
we
could
use
those
buses
at
any
time.
We
just
had
to
stop
at
charging
station
every
now
and
then
and
they
could
do
20
kilometers
easy,
then
get
charged
for
two
minutes
and
be
ready
to
go
for
another
20
minutes.
B
It
was
a
new
bus,
a
new
pilot
project
in
partnership
with
hydro
quebec,
eurobus
and
montreal,
and
in
in
front
of
the
results
that
were
quite
interesting
and
following
discussions
with
my
colleagues
at
the
international
union
of
transit
system.
We
knew
that
everyone
had
to
convert
towards
electric
buses.
Everybody
started
working
on
that
having
pilot
projects
and
that's
when
we
thought
we
should
try
something
else,
then
a
quick
recharge
of
buses
and
that's
how
we
end
up
with
the
these
buses
and
it's
new
flyers
who
got
this
order.
B
So-
and
I
insist
on
this:
electric
technology
is
new.
It's
everybody
knows
it.
When
I
was
in
montreal,
I
worked
a
lot
with
builders
constructors.
We
were
developing
the
technology
with
them.
Kind
of
it
was
one
of
the
first
companies
asking
for
slow
charging
buses
so
that
we
could
recharge
not
only
on
the
side
but
differently,
so
use
the
quick
charge
technology
for
the
slow
charge,
so
we're
just
developing
this
technology
now.
So
that's
why
there's
a
lot
of
prudence
required,
but
at
the
same
time
we
have
to
do
this
for
the
planet.
B
B
A
Thank
you.
Thank
you
very
much.
That's
a
and
and
again
I'm
I'm
pointing
out
that
the
auditor
general
in
her
office
have
done
this
on
a
proactive
basis.
You
know
vice
chair
mentioned,
all
the
risks
that
are
involved
and
so
to
mitigate
those
risks.
I
sure
do
appreciate
that
the
proactive
work
to
to
provide
guidance
or
to
provide
comment
on
on
the
way
forward
on
this
merci
report
on
the
audit
of
auto
community
housing's
development
and
renewal
plan,
and
this
was
provided
to
the
board
of
och
prior
to
this
meeting
in
in
january.
A
E
Yes,
thank
you
yeah
now.
I
just
wanted
to
ask
questions
again.
This
is
a
going
forward
kind
of
report
because
it's
looking
at
a
project
with
ottawa
community
housing
that
hasn't
been
done
before
of
the
scale.
For
a
long
time,
och
had
been
a
more
of
a
caretaker
of
the
housing
supply
it
had,
and
now
it's
going
into
building
new
housing
supplies
on
a
very
big
scale.
E
So
I
just
want
to
say
I
appreciate
the
what
what
was
being
done,
because
I
I
think
ottawa
community
housing
is
being
run
very
well,
but
I
just
wanted
to
get
a
sense
if
you
sort
of
feel
this
is
what
the
pattern
is
going
forward
because
of
the
ambitions
I
guess
of
ottawa,
community
housing
and
in
supplying
more
affordable
housing.
It
is.
H
Thank
you
for
the
question
counselor
chair.
I
I
believe,
if
we're
looking
at
what
we
anticipate
och
would
be
doing
going
forward.
That
question
would
likely
be
best
directed
to
management.
Any
just
specific
questions
with
regards
to
the
audit
I'd
be
happy
to
to
mention,
but,
as
as
you
heard
in
our
presentation
at
the
och
board
back
in
january,
what
we
did
note
is
from
the
procurement
perspective.
We
saw
very
good
practices
in
place.
F
Well,
thank
you.
Thank
you,
mr
chair.
No,
I
I
think,
I'm
you
know
management
and
well.
In
this
particular
case,
ochc's
management
is
an
agreement
with
all
of
the
auditors
recommendations
on
this,
and
I
would
just
add
that
och
and
housing
services
have
been
scaling
up
quite
a
bit
these
last
few
years.
So
this
is.
This
is
new
territory
for
both
och
and
us.
So
we
we
do.
You
know
we
are
in
full
agreement
with
these.
F
It
allows
us
to
do
a
lot
of
the
things
that
were
called
for
in
the
audit
very
hard
to
do
when
you're
running
a
pretty
lean
operation,
trying
to
get
your
first.
The
first
couple
large
scale
buildings
done,
but
we're
we're
past
that
now
and-
and
I
think
most
these
items
identified
in
the
audit
will
be
done
over
the
next
three
four
months
and
are
part
of
good
practice.
So
we're
actually
looking
forward
to
getting
the
staff
on
board
and
getting
that
implemented
as
part
of
the
part
of
our
development
growth
strategy.
E
Thank
you.
I
appreciate
the
responses
I
have
to
ask.
Here's
ottawa
community
housing,
which
is
under
the
is
the
what
is
it
called
the
ownership
of
is,
is
through
the
city
of
ottawa,
but
there's
also
other
affordable
housing
out
there,
and
we
don't
have
even
close
to
the
monitoring
and
the
opportunity
to
do
an
audit
on
what's
going
on
there
in
terms
of
affordable
housing.
How
do
we
monitor
other,
affordable
housing
to
make
sure
that
it's
up
to
par.
F
Thank
you,
mr
chair,
with
respect
to
the
auditing
of
other
affordable
housing
providers.
There.
Usually,
the
funding
is
provided
by
all
three
levels
of
government.
So
there
are
milestones,
and
there
are
you
know
there
is
oversight
in
those
cases
in
in
some
of
these
cases,
I'm
thinking
of
past
projects.
F
You
know
some
of
our
partners
have
been
very
large,
sophisticated
partners
such
as
the
pearly,
rito
or
brier,
for
example.
So
the
you
know,
you
know
who
have
undertaken
larger
projects
in
the
past
and
you
know,
and
a
lot
of
the
projects
we're
funding
right
now
are
with
smaller
providers
such
as
shepherds
of
good
hope.
The
ottawa
mission
cornerstone
housing
for
women,
and
they
they
would.
You
know
we
would
expect
that.
Well,
we
they
do
have
procurement
practices
and
project
management
practices
in
place.
F
F
E
A
Thank
you,
councillor,
cavanaugh
and
yes,
and
just
to
pick
up
on
your
line
of
questioning,
certainly
as
we've
seen
with
the
in
in
your
award
in
my
ward,
and
you
know
the
relationship
with
respect
to
other
providers,
be
they
para
governmental,
like
options
by
town
or
private
developers.
It
certainly
is
an
evolving
thing
and
and
said
you
and
your
team.
Thank
you
so
much
you
and
I
spoke
a
lot
in
in
the
past
year
with
respect
to
the
herring,
gate
project
and
and
your
support
of
of
that
mou.
A
But
I
I
think
that's
what
counter
kavanaugh
is
is
talking
about
now
I'll,
be
interested
to
look
at
that
other
audit
and
the
other
work
as
as
to
how
those
those
are
are
implemented
and
executed.
It's
a
it's
very
important
for
everyone.
In
our
city,
I
saw
his
par
from
the
office
of
the
auditor
general
turn
on
her
camera.
I
don't
know
if
she
wanted
to
comment
or
if
she
was
the
odd.
A
A
H
H
We
last
reported
to
the
audit
committee
on
our
progress
in
september
of
last
year.
Since
then,
we
have
reviewed
an
additional
40
recommendations
to
ensure
management
had
adequately
addressed
them
of
those
40
recommendations.
38
were
deemed
to
be
adequately
addressed
and
two
continue
to
be
in
an
open
status
as
we
deemed
further
follow-up
was
warranted.
H
We
have
also
continued
to
work
with
management
on
a
few
significant
audit
files,
including
the
audit
of
leases,
as
well
as
facilities
management
for
the
leases
audit.
I
am
happy
to
report.
We
are
wrapping
up
the
work
on
this
file
and
we'll
have
the
results
back
to
you
in
our
semi-annual
report.
That's
scheduled
to
be
tabled
at
our
next
audit
committee
or
the
facilities
management
audit.
I
believe
management
has
provided
council
with
an
update
as
to
their
progress
in
this
area,
and
they've
also
kept
us
abreast
of
their
progress
over
the
past
few
months.
H
A
H
Thank
you
very
much
for
your
question,
counselor
chair.
So
as
of
right
now,
the
audit
is
on
pause,
deputy
auditor,
john
joanne
goernstein,
and
I
had
the
pleasure
of
meeting
with
the
two
co-lead
counsels
for
the
public
inquiry
back
in
january.
I
believe
now,
and
so
we
were
able
to
provide
them
a
little
bit
of
context
as
to
what
we
were
going
to
look
at
right
now.
The
mandate
that
has
been
provided
to
the
commissioner
really
does
cover
off
all
of
the
items.
H
With
regards
to
the
motion
that
was
requested
by
counsel
of
my
of
my
office.
So
at
this
point
we're
on
hold
until
we
can
either
get
a
little
bit
more
information
from
the
co-leads
with
with
regards
to
whether
or
not
they
anticipate
covering
the
entire
scope
and
if
so,
how
deep
they'll
they
anticipate
going
into
that
scope
right
now,
I
don't
want
to
repeat
work
that
is
being
done.
H
I
don't
think
that's
appropriate
use
of
taxpayer
dollars,
since
I
think
technically,
the
city
would
be
hit
twice
on
that
particular
item,
both
from
a
provincial
standpoint
and
then
again
from
the
city
standpoint,
so
we're
in
a
bit
of
a
holding
pattern
in
order
to
see
what
it
is
that
they're
going
to
come
forward
with.
My
hopes
is
that
we'll
touch
base
with
them
again
in
the
next
couple
of
months,
but
as
of
right
now
we're
we're
keeping
things
on
hold.
E
H
H
A
A
I
would
advise
that
there
is
a
media
availability,
15
minutes
after
this
meeting,
let's
say:
11
15
oz,
arcanes,
11,
15,
media
availability
and
the
next
meeting
is
scheduled
tentatively
for
april
26.
Please
make
a
note
of
that
in
your
calendars.
The
notice
of
meeting
will
be
circulated
a
little
bit
closer
to
that
meeting
date,
but
we
are
aiming
for
april
26th
april
26th
2022,
and
a
motion
to
adjourn
please.
Madam
vice
chair.