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From YouTube: Audit Committee - September 30, 2020
Description
Audit Committee - Meeting of Wednesday, September 30, 2020 – Video Stream
Agenda and background materials can be found at http://www.ottawa.ca/agendas.
A
A
Thank
you,
then.
Let's
begin
good
morning,
everyone
thanks
for
joining
us
today,
mercia
tuskegee,
a
new
usual
jury.
First
audit
committee,
meeting
conducted
via
virtual
means
through
zoom.
I
appreciate
those
of
you
who
are
joining
us
here
on
zoom
and
and
on
youtube,
just
a
reminder
to
keep
your
microphones
muted.
A
Until
I
call
on
you
to
speak,
if
at
any
point
you
and
members
or
or
council
member
audit
committee
members
or
council
members
want
to
to
speak
or
to
address,
you
should
use
the
raise
hand
function
on
zoom,
which
I
think
we're
all
starting
to
get
used
to.
You'll
find
it
in
the
zoom
controls
at
the
bottom
of
your
zoom
window
near
the
near
the
audio
controls
committee
coordinator,
and
I
will
be
watching
for
those
cues
on
on
the
monitors
the
usual
five-minute
speaking
limit
will
apply
to
everyone.
A
Up
to
now,
we
have
no
public
delegation
signed
up
for
the
agenda
item.
Members
of
the
public
are
always
welcome
to
provide
written
comments,
which
will
always
be
circulated
to
two
members
of
council.
As
this
item
will
rise
to
council.
I
remind
you
that
this
meeting
is
being
live,
streamed
and
will
be
archived
on
youtube
before
we
proceed.
Do
a
quick
roll
call
for
all
members,
council,
el
shantiri.
C
A
A
A
A
Hearing
none
thank
you.
Those
minutes
are
confirmed
and
the
vice
chair
has
a
motion.
We
are
at
agenda
item
number
one:
the
office
of
the
auditor
general
report
on
audit
follow-ups
and
detailed
audit
follow-up
reports.
The
vice
chair
has
a
motion
to
add
the
documentation
to
the
agenda
vice
chair.
Could
you
present
the
motion?
Please.
E
E
A
E
E
E
Okay,
you
just
whoever's
going
to
follow.
I
think
they'll
follow
along
with
me.
Thank
you
so
much
chair.
So
this
is,
whereas
the
supporting
documentation
for
item
one
titled
office
of
the
auditor
general
report
on
auto
follow-ups
and
detailed
audit
follow-up
reports
was
not
circulated
with
the
agenda
package,
therefore
be
it
resolved.
The
audit
committee
approved
the
addition
of
these
documents
for
consideration
by
the
committee
at
today's
meeting,
pursuant
to
section
89
3
of
the
procedure
by
law
being
biological
number
2019-8.
E
F
A
A
I
just
want
to
advise
that
I'll,
be
stopping
and
and
at
each
segment
of
the
of
the
report
of
the
presentation
and
providing
opportunity
for
members
to
ask
questions
on
each
individual
segment
of
the
report
as
they
relate
to
the
specific
audit
follow-ups
and
then
we'll
move
on
to
the
next.
That
will
allow
management
or
staff
members
that
are
that
are
joining
us,
who
are
here
on
a
specific
item
to
to
go
on
and
do
their
their
work.
A
There
will
certainly
be
an
opportunity
at
the
end
of
the
six
segments
for
motions
or
general
feedback
on
on
the
performance
of
implementing
recommendations.
I
believe
the
vice
chair
will
have
a
motion
to
that
effect
that
we
could
discuss
at
that
time,
and
so,
if
there
are
no
questions
or
concerns
or
comments,
just
one.
F
F
G
A
A
G
We
provide
heads
up
and
debrief
to
to
the
staff
throughout
and
then
upon
a
completion
of
our
work,
whether
it's
the
audit
or
the
follow-up,
we
debrief
our
findings
to
the
to
management.
We
prepare
a
draft
report,
there's
a
period
of
factory
view,
and
then
we
also
allow
management
to
provide
their
comments
to
our
recommendations.
G
The
chief
audit
executive
must
establish
a
follow-up
process
to
monitor,
ensure
that
management
actions
have
been
fully
been
effectively
implemented
and
that's
from
the
both
the
standards
for
the
institute
of
internal
audit
and
the
ottawa,
the
city
of
ottawa
audit
standards
next
page,
please
so
just
to
confirm
we
conduct
follow-ups
on
all
audits.
It's
a
an
international
audit
best
practice.
We
usually
wait
about
two
to
three
years
after
an
audit
report
is
completed
to
give
management
time
to
to
complete
the
corrective
action
that
we've
identified.
G
I
should
point
out
that
we
will
also
delay
the
start
of
follow-ups
at
the
request
of
management
if
the,
if
they've
encountered
problems,
perhaps
a
reorg,
for
example,
and
they
wish
to
delay
the
follow-up.
So
our
job,
when
we
do
our
follow-ups,
is
to
ensure
that
the
required
measures
that
management
promised
to
to
counsel
are
are
implemented.
G
So
our
follow-up
is
an
overall
evaluation
of
the
progress
on
the
on
the
audit
and
the
deep.
The
details
on
all
of
the
recommendations
are
provided
in
the
report,
so
should
any
member
of
the
committee
or
any
other,
a
member
of
the
council,
I
wish
to
discuss
anything
in
in
particular.
We
can
do
so
here
or
or
after
next
slide.
G
G
Today
we
have
six
follow-ups
that
we
were
presenting.
It
will
be
the
follow-up
to
the
2015
audit
of
ethics,
a
follow-up
to
the
2016
audit
of
byword
and
parkdale
markets,
the
follow-up
to
the
2017
audit
of
child
care
services,
the
follow-up
to
the
2017
audit
of
the
management
of
the
lansdowne
contract
and
the
follow-up
to
the
2017
investigation
into
the
giver,
150
playground
at
mainly
bay
and
finally,
the
fault
to
the
2017
review
of
the
management
of
emergency
shelter
providers
and
contract
management.
G
We
make
five
assessments
in
our
reports.
We,
the
first
and
and
obviously
most
important.
One
is
an
assessment
that
the
recommend,
the
implementation
of
the
recommendation
is
complete
and
the
structures
and
processes
are
operating
as
intended
and
fully
implemented
in
all
areas
of
the
city.
We
also
use
an
assessment
of
partially
complete.
G
That's
self-explanatory,
as
is
the
other.
A
category
have
not
started.
We
have
a
category
where
we
are
unable
to
assess
you'll,
see
one
of
those
a
couple
of
those
in
in
today's
report
and
that's
where
the
particular
activity
is
currently
not
taking
place.
It
still
remains
applicable
in
the
city,
but
we
were
not
able
to
assess
it
because
circumstances
just
didn't
present
this
opportunity.
G
G
Then
we're
not
we're
not
ringing
the
maximum
benefit
from
from
the
art
process
and,
more
importantly,
when,
when
management
provides
their
comments
as
you'll
see
in
each
of
these
reports,
they
indicate
a
timeline
that
they
think
they
will
be
able
to
implement
the
recommendations
and
when,
when
we
go
up
to
do
our
follow-up,
it's
well
past
those
those
dates
that
that
management
has
promised
that
the
recommendations
would
be
implemented.
I
think
that,
looking
at
all
the
reports,
I
think
the
latest
date
that
management
indicated
the
recommendations
would
be
implemented.
G
G
H
H
We
performed
a
follow-up
in
2017
and
found
that
six
of
the
audits,
eight
recommendations
were
only
partially
implemented
at
that
time.
For
example,
management
had
not
yet
established
an
ethics
function
or
implemented,
training
for
all
employees
related
to
ethics
and
the
code
of
conduct,
because
there
were
a
number
of
important
actions
that
were
not
complete.
We
performed
another
follow-up
earlier
this
year.
H
With
a
second
follow-up,
we
found
that
management
had
completed
another
three
recommendations,
including
formalizing
and
staffing,
the
ethics
function.
However,
two
recommendations
remain
partially
implemented.
One
is
related
to
training
and
one
related
to
policies
referenced
within
the
code
of
conduct
and
a
third
recommendation
is
no
longer
applicable.
The
first
item
assessed
does
not
fully
complete.
H
Is
employee
code
of
conduct
training,
all
entree
online
training
was
developed
and
launched
in
the
fall
of
2018.,
based
on
the
data
available.
Approximately
four
percent
of
employees
had
taken
this
training
up
until
february
of
this
year.
Legal
services
staff
have
also
delivered
in-person
training
related
to
ethics,
and
the
code
of
conduct
records
indicate
that
approximately
1100
employees
have
attended
these
sessions
since
2016.
H
H
The
second
item
not
fully
completed
is
related
to
three
policies
referenced
within
the
code
of
conduct
that
were
not
reviewed
within
the
prescribed,
four-year
review
cycle
and,
finally,
the
the
item
no
longer
applicable
was
related
to
individual
contribution
agreements.
The
part
of
the
former
performance
development
process
with
employees
and
that
process
was
discontinued
after
the
time
of
the
audit.
A
Thank
you,
madam
deputy
auditor
general.
Thank
you
for
that
presentation
and
we
will,
as
as
I
said
at
the
beginning,
we
will
now
go
to
two
questions
from
all
members
of
the
committee
or
council.
I
see
councillor
menard
has
has
joined
us,
so
any
member
of
council
can
ask
questions
and
I
see
councillor
cavanaugh
first,
please.
C
Thank
you
very
much
for
that
report.
Of
course,
the
that
that
concerns
me
greatly,
especially
when
you
said
four
percent
of
staff
taking
were
taking
the
training
so
that
that's
that's
incredible.
It
concerns
me
greatly
when
we're
talking
about
very
strong
issues.
Here
is
this
related
also
to
the
sexual
harassment
training
as
well.
H
H
C
Okay,
so
so
what
are
we
looking
for
here,
some
kind
of
reminding
mechanism
or
something
that
yeah?
This
really
is
important,
because
obviously
it's
it
gets
lost
in
everything
else,
and
and
yet
it's
it's
essential
to
have
that
code
of
conduct.
Training,
as
we
know,
is
that
is
that
the
direction
that's
being
recommended.
C
H
Well,
the
the
implementation
of
ensuring
that
the
training
is
delivered
is
is
really
up
to
management.
We've
left
that
up
to
them
there's
obviously
in-person
training
is
not
likely
feasible
at
the
moment,
but
online
training
certainly
is.
I
know
some
of
the
challenges
they've
had
are
with
respect
to
a
number
of
employees
that
may
or
may
not
have
network
access.
I
The
chair
with
respect
to
the
last
comment,
I,
the
the
training
that
has
been
developed,
has
been
developed
on
multiple
platforms,
and
so
it
is
available
for
networked
and
not
non-networked
employees.
That
said,
and
and
by
virtue
of
some
of
the
changes
we've
had
to
institute
as
a
result
of
kovid,
I
understand
all
employees
now
are
networked
and
have
access
to
that
online
training.
I
That
said
that
the
online
learning
component
is
is
really
just
but
one
kind
of
facet
of
our
approach
to
to
strengthening
the
ethical
culture
in
the
organization
and
that
that
goes
through
the
onboarding
training
for
new
employees.
It
goes
into
the
training
for
new
supervisors
and
the
training
for
people
taking
management
positions.
I
So,
as
they
say
right
now,
the
the
in-person
training
has
had
to
kind
of
be
scaled
back
for
obvious
reasons,
but
that's
also
been
a
critical
component
of
incorporating
that
kind
of
in-person
instruction
into
just
regular
mediums
of
of
staff.
So
our
effort
really
is
to
reinforce
the
need
to
have
those
kinds
of
ethical
discussions
and
raise
the
profile
of
those
ethical
discussions
kind
of
in
the
day-to-day
business
of
the
city.
C
H
C
I
would
be
curious
to
know
because
it
seems
like
we
have
a
long
way
to
go,
and
I
wonder
if
there's
any
good
examples
out
there
that
we
can
compare
ourselves
to
and
and
work
towards
anyway.
I
appreciate
that
there's
been
an
audit
on
this
and
I
I
think
that
the
public
expect
us
to
have
high
standards
and
and
it's
good
to
remind
us
of
our
high
standards
and-
and
I
I
think
that
training
is-
is
essential.
Thank
you
very
much.
A
Thank
you,
councillor
kavanaugh,
and
I
was
remiss
in
not
advising
that
some
questions
go
to
the
office
of
the
auditor
general.
Some
questions
go
to
staff
that
that
are
better
placed
to
answer
those
questions
and
on
this
file
I
believe
it
is
mr
o'connor
and
mr
white
for
other
segments
I'll
be
identifying
which
staff
are
present.
That
can
answer
those
types
of
questions
like
counter
kavanaugh
just
asked.
So
I
have
a
counselor
me
advice,
cheer
me
and
up
next,
please.
E
I
E
I
Mr
chair
part
of
it
is
simply
the
the
the
ability
we
have
to
track.
Part
of
it
is
is
that
the
the
introduction
to
the
code
and
ethics
is,
as
you
say
in
some
measure,
voluntary
part
of
it
is
that
it's
just
one
component
of
the
overall
kind
of
ethics
code
of
conduct,
work
plan
that
we
have,
which
is
really
aimed
at,
as
I
say,
increasing
the
discussion
of
ethics
on
the
code
and
broadening
the
the
understanding
of
it.
I
I
mean
the
online
training
module
yeah,
it's
important
in
so
particularly
for
new
employees
that
haven't
been
exposed
to
the
code
of
conduct
in
the
past.
As
I
say,
it's
an
introduction
to
ethics
and
the
code
of
conduct.
The
code
of
conduct
in
its
current
form
has
been
around
for
almost
10
years
now,
and
so
it
may
well
be
that
you
know
the
the
familiarity
with
the
code
which
can
come
either
from
training
from
myself
and
people
in
my
office
from
managers
from
supervisors.
E
I
can't
see
why
I
I
don't
know
what
kind
of
explanation
would
sit
well
with
me
that
why
this
hasn't
been
done
so
is
there
some
feet
dragging
involved
here?
Is
it
it
doesn't
seem
we
haven't
imparted
with
the
employees
that
this
is
an
important
part
of
their
introduction
to
the
workplace?
I
think
I
think
we've
got
to
give
a
better
signal
that
this
is
important
and
and
and
just
tell
people
they've
got
a
deadline
to
do
it.
E
E
J
J
I
think
I'm
reading
the
right,
okay,
jerry
you're
on
mute,
but
I
think
you
said
yes.
Yes,
that's
correct,
okay,
okay,
great!
So
I'm
reading
the
right
thing
here.
I
just
want
to
make
sure
I
wasn't
reading
the
old
report
here,
so
I
just
wanted
to
raise
a
few
issues
that
I'm
seeing
with
regard
to
the
lansdowne
contract
and
the
follow-up
of
the
2017
audit
of
the
management
of
the
lansdowne
contract.
A
J
A
A
Got
it
sorry,
thank
you
and
with
respect
to
the
to
the
ethics
and
to
to
the
comment
by
by
mr
white
and
thank
you
for
your
response
and
thank
you
to
the
vice
chair
for
her
comments.
You
know
I
have
received
follow-ups
when
I
have
not
completed
a
compulsory
training
module.
I
imagine
that
this
module
is
not
a
compulsory
training.
Module
ethics
are
important
and
perhaps
it
should
be.
We've
spent
time
on
on
the
fraud
and
waste
hotline
and
it's
referred
to
in
that
module.
A
It's
called
ethics,
the
code
in
you
and
it
deals
with
code
of
conduct,
ethics
training.
I
think
it's
very
important
and
and
as
as
was
said,
we
see
a
lot
of
employees
who've
not
received
that
that
training,
and
I
would
like
to
see
a
plan.
Perhaps
it
is
a
compulsory
training
and
that
follow-up
that
the
that
the
clerk's
office
does
so
well
when
employees
don't
don't
complete
a
compulsory
training
module
I'd
like
to
see
a
plan
to
make
sure
that
more
employees
are
aware
of
this
and
are
exposed
to
this.
A
D
Mr
chair
steve
now
the
trade
the
training
is
going
to
be
made
mandatory
in
the
next.
Well,
it's
going
to
be
implemented
now
as
mandatory
training
as
part
of
all
our
other
mandatory
training.
We
have
a
lot
of
mandatory
training.
That's
going
to
be
added
to
the
to
the
catalog
of
mandatory
training,
and
all
employees
will
have
to
take
it.
A
H
We
followed
up
on
the
10
recommendations
made
in
the
audit,
which
was
conducted
in
2016..
Four
of
the
ten
recommendations
were
assessed
as
complete.
Five
were
partially
complete
and
one
was
not
started
since
the
time
of
our
report.
The
markets
management
section
of
the
city
was
operational
for
13
months,
and
then
it
was
transitioned
to
a
municipal
services
corporation
in
january
2018..
H
Most
of
these
recommendations
that
are
partially
complete
or
not
started
relate
to
practices
that
no
longer
exist
because
of
the
change
to
municipal
services
corporation,
the
five
partially
complete
recommendations
relate
to
and,
and
the
first
part
are,
is-
is
relevant
to
the
new,
and
then
there
were
several
items
where
the
processes
no
longer
exist,
such
as
cash
handling,
approval
of
overtime
and
issues
related
to
cost
sharing
plans
with
the
the
business
improvement
area.
There
are
a
few
items
in
our
report.
H
H
We
found
that
the
information
to
show
how
performance
compared
to
plan
for
for
all
goals
could
be
improved.
For
example,
the
report
presented
at
the
annual
meeting
of
members
in
june
2019
included
financial
information
and
facts
and
figures
such
as
number
of
outdoor
vendors
average
daily
stand,
rentals
and
so
forth.
However,
these
facts
and
figures
were
not
reported
against
either
targets
or
forecasts
or
compared
to
prior
year
results.
H
H
It
may
have
been
discussed
at
board
meetings,
but
there
was
no
documentation
where
it
it
was
being
shown.
So
again,
these
are
areas
that
we've
we've
noted
in
the
report.
We
wanted
to
bring
to
management's
attention,
communicate
to
the
board
of
the
msc
of
areas
that
they
can
consider
for
for
enhancements
and
improvements.
H
And
and
finally,
there
was
one
recommendation
and
again
this
is
no
longer
a
process
that
is
exists.
Today
we
looked
at
the
interim
period
with
respect
to
a
review
of
shared
expenditures
with
the
bia,
and
these
were
for
marketing
and
promotional
activities,
and
we
found
that
the
the
recommendations
that
we'd
made
there
was
no
evidence
to
see
that
that
was
that
that
was
completed
or
carried
out
in
terms
of
a
closer
review
of
shared
expenditures
and
supporting
invoices
by
staff,
and
that
completes
the
the
presentation
on
on
this
follow-up.
A
A
F
H
F
Thank
you
in
the
future,
if
and
that
question
to
our
staff,
if
something
to
happen
and
and
get
to
your
attention,
it's
your
job
to
come
back
to
a
city
council
with
some
recommendation
for
reforming
or
helping
whatever.
That
case
might
be
like
I'd
like
to
know
from
here
on.
What
is
the
process?
That's
what
I'm
looking
for.
F
Mr
chair,
I
don't
want
to
hold
too
much
on
what
I'm
trying
to
figure
out
as
the
counselor
who's
in
charge
of
all
the
baas
from
here
on
how
how
can
like?
What's
how
do
we
establish
the
working
relationship?
If
we
have
an
issue?
Where
do
we
go
to?
Do
we
go
to
our
staff?
Is
it
called
curry?
Is
that
the
staff
person
in
charge
of
this
or
that's
what
I'm
looking
for,
because
clearly
from
the
deputy
auditor,
you
know
some
of
the
recommendation
is
redundant
because
they
have
a
board.
A
D
Chair
mr
chair,
since
court
can't
get
on
me,
I
just
add
a
few
things.
Court
sits
on
me
on
the
markets
board
as
an
exophyllis
and
court
curry
to
bring
back
to
the
board
as
counselor
also
terry
said.
Many
of
these
recommendations,
or
several
of
them
are
redundant
now
and
that
the
board
has
taken
over
council
receives
an
annual
report
from
the
board
and
on
their
financials,
so
you're
also
able
to
ask
them
at
the
annual
general
meeting
any
questions
you
may
have
concerning
auto
recommendations
that
should
be
implemented
by
that
board.
D
So
part
of
this
has
changed
significantly
for
us.
Mr
kirk,
mr
curry
has
only
so
much
ability
to
be
able
to
push
that.
This
is
now
a
direct
relationship
with
the
elected
council
and
that
board.
That's
where
the
reporting
relationship
lies
and
staff
are
playing
a
coordinating
liaison
role
in
that
function.
So
on
this
one
here
I
would
respectfully
say
that,
while
some
recommendations
have
been
implemented,
the
ones
there
are
several
of
them
that
are
now
no
longer
within
the
purview
of
cities.
D
A
Mr
canalakis,
thank
you
noted
the
recommendations
from
the
office
of
the
auditor
general
did
come
to
this
committee
and
to
and
to
council,
and
I
think
that's
what
we'll
be
following
up
on
and
if
they,
if,
if
there's
also
a
reporting
mechanic
recognizing,
there's
also
a
reporting
mechanism
directly
from
the
municipal
service
corporation
directly
to
council,
I
recognize
that,
but
there
are
some
reports
that
that
are
dealt
with
at
this
committee.
I
think
mr
curry
may
have
fixed
his
issue.
Did
you
want
to
give
it
a
try?
Mr
curry?
J
I
I
I
probably
quick
small
questions
in
regarding
for
probably
for
management,
and
I
know
I
saw
in
the
report
that
the
auditor
general
suggested
some
suggestion
for
the
some
of
them
for
the
governance
and
the
governance.
I
just
have
a
question:
are
these
are
being
implemented
or
are
currently
in
progress,
and
specifically
the
information,
the
information
I'm
looking
on
on
the
performance
and
progress
on
the
strategic
actions
and
that
that
we
the
improvement
of
that
strategic
action?
J
Thank
you
for
the
question
counselor
and
I
and
I,
as
I
tried
to
say
earlier,
I
want
to
thank
the
deputy
author
general
for
her
and
her
staffs
work
with
us
on
on
this
follow-up
audit.
In
particular,
this
audit
recommendation,
I
believe,
has
improved
management's
initial
response
to
the
to
the
audit
ottawa
markets
corporation.
As
the
city
manager
advised,
has
been
in
existence
since
january
2018..
J
They
did
establish
their
first
strategic
plan
last
year
in
2019
this
year
they
have
now
established
20
performance
indicators
to
match
their
strategic
plan
and
their
vision
as
approved
by
council.
We
had
a
board
meeting
this
past
monday
night.
I
attended,
as
the
city
manager
noted
ex
officio,
and
the
executive
director
ran
through
those
performance
indicators
with
the
board.
I
I
apologize
this
technology,
but
I'm
just
I
keep
forgetting
to
hit
unmute
because
the
feedback,
but
anyway
my
second
question
and
follow-up
question.
Thank
you.
I
know
that
we
talked
a
little
bit
about
the
board.
Turnover
is
the
tour
is:
has
this
been
improved
or
stayed
the
same,
because
as
this
is
this
that
came
in
2016
and
in
the
last
few
years
like?
Can
you
give
us
a
little
bit
quick
update
on
that?
That
would
be
great.
J
Counselor,
as
the
deputy
author
general
noted,
there
was
significant
turnover
of
this
volunteer
board
in
its
first
two
years
as
it
stormed
and
normed
in
the
last
year
since
june
2019,
when
the
auditor
completed
her
deputy
auditor,
completed
her
review,
the
board
has
stabilized,
we
have
a
a
chair
and
we
have
eight
of
nine
board
positions
full
with
zero
turnover.
This
year.
One
member
has
just
recently
resigned
for
personal
reasons,
but
I
can
be.
L
J
J
It
is
very
similar
to
the
city
of
ottawa's
own
cash
handling
process,
and
I
believe
the
deputy
author
general
would
agree
that
upon
her
office's
review,
there
is
a
sufficient
policy
in
place
as
an
aside
that
organization
is,
is
not
handling
very
much
cash
in
this
day
and
age,
particularly
in
the
last
nine
months.
Most
is
now
electronic.
L
Okay,
thank
you
and
then
my
next
question
is
to
do
with
following
up
the
original
audit
found,
let's
just
say,
questionable
or
suspicious
activity
going
on
with
the
the
management
of
the
the
revenues
from
the
the
market,
and
I
believe
we
couldn't
even
question
the
person
that
was
in
charge
of
it
at
the
time
or
anything.
I'm
just
wondering
was
there
any
follow-up
done
on
that
to
see
if
there
was
any
taxpayers
dollars
that
were
lost
here,
that
could
be
recovered.
Was
there
any
effort
done
on
that.
H
We
did
not
find
any
evidence
that
there
were
funds
misappropriated
and
in
our
report,
what
we
outlined
was
that
there
weren't
adequate
controls
that
could
prevent
or
detect
if
funds
had
been
misappropriated,
but
we
did
not
find
any
evidence
direct
evidence
of
that.
So
our
recommendation-
and
you
know
in
those
situations
if
if
there
is
evidence
that
some
something
direct
that
likely
would
warrant
an
investigation,
it
would
have
proceeded
on
that
basis.
H
They
did
complete
many
of
those
our
final
assessment
again
in
that
interim
period
and
those
processes
are
no
longer
existing.
Today
we
did
find
a
couple
of
items
where
there
wasn't.
You
know
a
double
sign-off
on
the
the
reports
of
revenue
and
cash,
so
it
wasn't
that
the
they
hadn't
completed
all
the
controls,
but
there
were
a
few
areas
that
where
the
controls
weren't
weren't
functioning
to
the
level
that
that
was
recommended.
H
G
L
Know
yeah
the
original
audit
and
and
the
follow-ups
that
you're
talking
about
here
today
I
understood
at
the
time
I
thought
there
was
evidence
that
rent
had
not
been
collected
for
all
of
the
units
included
in
the
market
piece,
and
that
was
something
that
was
a
question
out
of
the
first
one.
Was
why
not
like
you
know,
what's
the
expenses
being
written
off
against
the
rent,
negated
any
rent
being
paid?
I'm
just
curious.
G
The
counselor
is
quite
correct.
We
identified
a
number
of
instances
where
activities
that
were
the
responsibility
of
particular
individuals
that
weren't
weren't
done
and
with
we
are
we're
restricted
by
what
evidence
that
exists,
and
when
someone
hasn't
done
something
our
our
role
is
to
point
out
that
what
should
have
been
done?
What
was
part
of
somebody's
responsibility,
part
of
their
job
description?
What
should
have
been
done?
Wasn't
done
there.
G
You
know
the
idea
of
oversight
if
somebody's
responsible
for
something,
then
those
individuals
to
whom
they
report
should
be
overseeing
their
activity
as
well.
We
pointed
out
what
what
wasn't
done,
and
there
was
no
evidence
that
we
were
able
to
find
that
it
was
deliberately
done
for
a
particular
reason,
but
other
than
that
I've
been
I've
been
identifying
that
activities
that
that
should
have
verified
that
expense
expenses
that
were
acclaimed
as
part
of
a
lease
were
legitimate.
G
L
G
I
Mr
chair,
may
I
have
an
opportunity
please
thank
you,
mr
willis.
Yes,
certainly
I
I
support
with
what
the
auditor
general
said
and
it's
very
helpful,
the
historic
context
you
get
he
gave,
and
I
thank
him
and
the
deputy
auditor
general
for
their
work
on
this.
This
does
predate
my
tenure
at
the
city,
but
we
did
look
at
this
issue
in
depth
at
the
time
of
the
transfer
to
the
msc
and
understanding
that
the
issue
in
dispute
was
not
an
issue
of
misappropriation.
I
It
was
a
legal
dispute
between
the
applicability
of
contractual
matters
and
the
city
did
review
this
in
detail
and
did
do
a
legal
risk
assessment
about
the
chances
of
succeeding
in
a
legal
action
and
decided
at
the
time
the
cost
of
pursuing
action
would
exceed
the
value
of
the
loss.
So
we
made
a
decision
in
taxpayers
interest
not
to
spend
legal
dollars
to
pursue
money.
We
wouldn't
we
would
would
did
not
have
a
high
chance
of
recovering.
So
there
was
no
evidence
of
misappropriation.
I
It
was
a
legal
dispute
in
a
contract
at
the
time,
and
the
city's
realty
services
at
the
time
was
aware
of
it
and
very
involved
in
with
support
from
legal
services.
But
as
as,
as
the
deputy
auditor
journalist
said,
and
the
auditor
general
said,
it's
all
about
having
good
controls
in
process
which
we're
we're,
helping
the
msc
ensure
that
those
are
in
place
and
the
msc
is
a
very
willing
and
cooperative
partner.
In
that.
A
Thank
you,
counselor
hubli
and
yes,
the
at
its
source.
I
think
it's
it's
reconciling
the
cost
elements
that
go
in.
What's
the
the
shared
cost
or
the
fixed
cost
or
the
entity
to
establish
the
annual
rent
and-
and
and
I
understand
I
recognize
and
I
receive
the
the
comments
by
the
by
the
general
manager.
I
have
a
quick
question
to
the
deputy
auditor
general
and
thank
you
for
your
report
and
it's
on
cash
handling.
A
Both
of
them
seem
to
deal
with
cash
handling
policy
recommendation
five,
as
spells
out
a
lot
of
the
policies
and
recommendation
six,
just
as
compliant
with
corporate
cash
management
policies.
Can
you
can
you
explain
to
me
a
little
bit
why
five
is
partially
complete,
but
six
is
complete
when
they
kind
of
say
the
same
thing.
H
Mr
chair,
the
the
difference
between
the
the
two
recommendations
was
number
five
was
specific
to
markets
management,
so
that
was
the
operational
group
that
was
that
was
operating
and
conducting
all
activities
at
the
markets.
Whereas
number
six
was
a
recommendation
to
the
city
as
a
whole,
largely
focused
to
the
treasury
department.
So
in
number
five
you
what
you,
what
you
can
see
there
in
the
recommendation,
are
very
prescriptive
recommendations
we
made
with
respect.
H
The
the
procedure
to
the
markets
because
they
had
a
unique
process
there
with
a
homemade
system
and
and
different
controls
that
they
had
they
were
off
site
in
a
separate
office
and
so
forth.
So
we
made
very
specific
recommendations
there
due
to
the
the
severe
deficiencies
in
in
cash
handling
controls
on
site
and
because,
because
of
the
because
of
the
ca,
the
environment
that
we
we
found
there,
we
felt
it
warranted
a
larger
recommendation
to
the
city
as
a
whole.
H
In
terms
of
of
considering
what
they
could
do
to
ensure
that
that
kind
of
situation
wouldn't
be
repeated
elsewhere
at
the
city,
so
that
they
would
sort
of
consider
how
they
can
ensure
or
to
for
the
city
as
a
whole,
where
there
are
cash
handling
processes
in
place.
That
those
are
are
sound
and
they're
appropriate
and
they
have
an
appropriate
level
of
control
for
that
operation.
Because,
as
you
can
imagine,
there
are
many
operations
across
the
city
that
handle
cash.
H
And
it's
very,
it's
very
challenging
to
create
a
set
of
policies
and
procedures
that
can
apply
and
be
carried
out
by
all
in
the
same
manner.
Which
is
why
the
treasury
department
sets
the
policies
and
procedures
at
a
higher
level
and
then
requires
each
area
that
has
cash
handling
operations
to
have
their
own
specific
procedures
as
required
to
ensure
that
there
are
sound
controls
in
place
and
that's
the
basis
of
the
second
recommendation.
H
So
in
the
first
case,
with
respect
to
the
operations
occurring
at
the
market,
we
did
find
when
we
reviewed
the
information
that
was
available
for
that
13-month
period.
And
again,
these
controls
are
no
longer
operational,
but
we
did
find
some
gaps
where
there
were
lack
of
dual
signatures
on
some
reports.
A
M
M
M
M
The
original
audit
found
that
the
review
of
this
program
had
not
been
completed
and
that
a
cost-benefit
analysis
had
not
been
conducted.
Our
follow-up
found
that
management
had
completed
a
draft
of
its
mcc
review.
However,
they
were
still
in
the
process
of
finalizing
the
report
and
had
not
yet
been
presented
to
committee
and
council
management
is
planning
to
report
to
community
and
council
at
a
later
date,
and
we
feel
it
is
important
for
them
to
continue
to
do
so
and
to
follow
through
on
this.
M
M
However,
the
council
approved
user
fees
do
not
recover
the
city's
full
cost
of
operating
the
mcc's.
The
city's
full
cost
per
space,
which
is
roughly
double
the
council,
approved
user
fee,
is
not
presented.
We
believe
that
comparing
the
city's
full
cost
per
space
to
the
prices
charged
by
other
operators
is
an
important
part
of
a
full
cost
benefit
analysis.
M
A
C
H
N
So,
yes,
there
was
some
initial
steps
there
to
bring
in
more
technology.
We
actually
have
a
child
care
registry
and
waitlist
technology
tool
that
we
use
to
manage
it.
As
the
initial
audit
kind
of
pointed
out,
there
was
duplicates
from
kind
of
the
carryover
from
when
it
came
over
to
us
from
the
previous
service
provider
that
was
managing
it.
N
We
used.
We
used
this
new
technology
going
forward
to
make
improvements
to
make
sure
we
had
better
data.
So,
yes,
there
is
the
data.
I
think
when
the
initial
audit
happened.
It
was
in
that
first
couple
years
of
that
software
being
installed
and
all
the
audit
recommendations
related
to
that
around
the
duplicates
and
the
waitlist
information
that
we
have
have
been
cleaned
up
to
ensure
that
we
have
the
appropriate
data
to
make
proper,
evidence-based
decisions.
N
No
just
to
clarify,
we
do
have
a
provincial
system
that
we
are
given
for
case
management.
It's
the
ontario
case,
child
care
case
management
system.
It's
the
provincial
system
that
most
cities
are
using.
There
is
a.
There
is
a
portal
of
that
system
for
weightless
management.
However,
there
are
some
shortcomings
with
the
provincial
system.
The
choice
was
made
back
in
2015
2016
to
use
another
software
because
of
the
enhancements
that
were
needed
and
the
limitations
of
the
provincial
system,
so
we
do
have
multiple
systems
using
this.
C
N
Yeah,
absolutely
I
mean
from
nana
from
a
non-technical
perspective,
the
significant
investments
in
the
last
few
years
in
child
care
has
made
a
significant
difference
in
the
wait
list.
In
a
simple
term.
Our
fee
subsidy
budget
is
sufficient
to
provide
financial
supports
for
for
ottawa
residents.
There
might
be
a
few
months
where
it
takes
to
to
do
that,
but
right
now
we
currently
have
about
800
families
waiting
for
financial
approval.
N
N
N
It
is
yeah
so
and
in
addition
to
kind
of
the
financial
impacts
or
the
financial
impacts
of
the
fee
subsidy
budget,
we
do
have
approximately
800
families
who
are
pre-approved
for
financial
support,
who
are
trying
to
secure
a
placement
right
now.
There's
kind
of
two
aspects
to
this
in
the
sense
of
parents
still
trying
to
navigate
this
corporate
situation
and
making
a
decision
just
like
schools
of
if
they
are
going
to
return
to
that.
N
The
other
aspect
is
the
community
providers
are
still
trying
to
get
back
to
full
capacity
in
a
safe
manner,
so
there
there
is
still
not
full
capacity
of
the
child
care
sector,
which
could
you
know
minimize
the
access
that
parents
have
at
this
point.
Providers
are
working
really
hard
to
get
back
to
that
full
access.
It's
just
it's
a
difficult
environment
right
now,.
C
L
L
N
I
thank
the
auditor
for
kind
of
pinpointing
a
lot
of
these
areas,
because
there
was
a
lot
of
significant
areas
of
concern.
This
audit
really
helped
us
pinpoint
the
areas
that
we
needed
to
to
look
into
specifically
with
the
question.
Our
error
rate
right
now
is
actually
below
two
percent.
However,
there
is
still
a
process
where
someone
forgot
to
notify
us
of
an
eligibility
concern.
N
We
have
an
overpayment
recovery
process
where
we
would
go
back
and
and
collect
the
funds
back
from
those
parents
if
something
changed
in
their
eligibility
and
all
the
annual
reviews
are
up
to
date.
So
a
lot
of
significant
work
has
been
done
on
this
audit.
We
we
definitely
prioritize
this
audit
because
of
those
significant
concerns
raised.
L
And
I
want
to
be
the
first
to
say
that
there's
been
a
huge
progress
made
on
this
file
since
the
original
audit
like
it,
I
know
it
certainly
woke
up
council
and
senior
management
of
the
city
as
to
what
the
problems
were
in
this
area.
So
I
want
to
let
you
know.
I
do
appreciate
the
work
that
is
going
on
with
this,
with
respect
to
those
overpayments
that
you
were
just
talking
about.
What's
our
collection
efforts
and
results
like
are
we
collecting
most
of
that
money,
because
I
believe
in
the
original
audit,
where.
K
L
Pinpointed
one
of
the
areas
where
there
was
money
being
lost
was
nobody
was
coming
forward
and
saying:
okay,
I
don't
need
the
subsidy
anymore,
so
people
were
getting
a
long
pass
of
time
when
kids
were
their
kids
would
have
been
eligible.
So
how
are
we
doing
on
the
collection
of
that
overpayment
of
tax
dollars.
N
Yeah,
so
just
to
walk
through
the
process
a
little
bit,
we,
we
do
a
fairly
good
job
at
collecting
the
funds.
Back,
I
mean
we
keep
in
mind
that
the
the
clientele
that
we
are
supporting
are
the
most
vulnerable.
That's
that's
the
reason
why
they
need
the
fee
subsidy.
We
take
a
very
soft
approach
in
the
sense
of
the
partnership
of
how
they
can
pay
these
funds
back.
L
L
So
I
appreciate
hearing
what
you're
doing
with
that
and
that
there's
processes
in
place
now
to
make
sure
that
that
doesn't
happen
going
forward,
because
that
money
that
got
let's
say
I'm
going
to
use
the
term
misallocated
just
for
lack
of
a
better
one
right
now,
but
that
money
once
it's
collected
and
brought
back
in
it
goes
back
into
the
program
to
help
people
that
are
actually
eligible
for
the
child
subsidies.
Is
that
correct.
L
Okay
and
then
my
last
question
is
to
do
it
on
page
eight
of
the
audit,
where
it
says
no
cost
benefit
analysis
was
done.
I
thought
it
was
standard
practice
in
the
city
now
to
do
cost
benefit
analysis
before
undertaking
anything
like
this.
Can.
Can
someone
give
an
answer
as
to
why
a
cost
benefit
wasn't
done.
N
Yeah
chair
there
was
a
cost
benefit
done,
not
a
formal
one.
I
think
for
me
when
I
looked
at
this
and
the
significant
concerns
raised
in
the
audit
around
the
data
that
we
needed
to
maximize
the
supports
for
families.
We
looked
at
the
cost,
which
was
fairly
minimal.
The
we
have
one
provider
with
the
technology.
I
made
the
decision
at
that
time
because
of
the
low
cost
to
push
it
forward
as
soon
as
we
could
to
ensure
that
we
could
maximize
those
funds
for
families
and
make
better
informed
decisions
moving
forward.
A
M
Certainly
I
mean
what
we
wanted
to
see
was
that
they
evaluate
the
costs
and
the
benefits
of
of
going
ahead
and
and,
like
you
said
in
not
every
decision
has
to
be
a
formal
cost,
benefit
analysis
and
what
we
saw
you
know
for
management
and
the
decision
that
they
took.
You
know
it
looks
reasonable
under
the
circumstances,
so
we
didn't
see
a
need
to
say
that
was
partially
complete.
There's
any
further
work
to
be
done.
It
looked
to
us
like
they
had.
A
Okay,
thank
you
just
advising
you
and
ms
brennan
you're
you're
cutting
out
a
little
bit
so
maybe
sometimes
we'll
we'll
ask
you
to
to
turn
off
your
video
that
there's
a
bit
of
bandwidth
issue.
Mr
cebuane,
thank
you
very
much
for
for
your
answer
to
to
the
questions
by
counselor
hubli.
You
said
you
referred
to
a
two
percent
error
rate
and-
and
I
appreciate
that
they'll
be
errors.
A
A
Other
people
getting
on
the
program,
it
impacts
parents
getting
to
work
and
using
the
the
services
that
that
are
offered
by
the
city.
So
I
I
don't
want
to
leave
the
impression
we
recognize
errors.
Absolutely
what's
not
acceptable.
Is
files
not
being
reviewed
for
29
months,
and
I
hope
that
that
that
there
is
progress
in
that
and
for
management.
A
recommendation
22
was
was
talked
about
for
for
a
a
good
while
it
was
supposed
to
be
done
in
october.
N
Yeah,
absolutely
if
I
can
take
the
chance
to
chair
to
just
go
back
to
your
previous
comments.
I
couldn't
agree
with
you
more.
The
29-month
backlog
that
was
a
saw
in
the
original
audit
should
not
be
happening
when
I
came
in,
we
put
that
as
the
number
one
priority
the
backlog
was
completed
within
the
year
and
annual
reviews
are
current.
The
error
rate
is
actually
something
different.
It
is
it's.
It
is
just
with
the
initial
assessment
around
the
eligibility
and
with
something
missed
as
part
of
that
paperwork.
N
The
annual
reviews
are
current
and
they
remain
current
right
now
to
ensure
those
people
who
are
on
the
system
continue
to
be
eligible
municipal
child
care
report.
So
just
a
bit
of
the
backlog
here,
too,
of
the
the
time
it's
taken
us
a
bit
is
because
of
the
significant
growth
in
the
sector.
We've
never
seen
this
kind
of
transformation
in
child
care,
which
is
amazing.
N
N
A
N
Yeah
absolutely
chair,
if
I
can
take
an
opportunity
to
speak
to
that
when
we
came
in
and
had
this
initial
audit,
we
did
look
at
the.
What
we
could
complete
the
unknown
for
us
was
actually
the
transformation
this
sector
has
gone
under
over
the
last
three
four
years.
We've
seen
unprecedented
amounts
of
funding
come
into
this
sector,
and
I
would
probably
argue
that
the
sector
hasn't
seen
this
type
of
transformation
since
1970,
when
this
is
child
care
kind
of
started.
N
We've
seen
2
000
more
fee
subsidies
available,
we've
seen
capital
investments
to
have
400
new
spaces
in
ottawa.
We've
had
the
journey
together
initiative
to
increase
the
indigenous
child
care.
We've
had
to
re-transform
the
early
on
all
these
were
kind
of
unknowns.
At
the
time
of
that
what
we
did
look
at-
and
I
hope
everyone
sees-
we
did
take
this
audit
seriously,
but
we
also
had
to
prioritize
the
programs
that
were
going
to
have
direct
impacts
and
often
because
these
are
provincial
legislative.
They
come
with.
N
A
You
are
right,
there
were
31
recommendations,
a
lot
of
recommendations,
most
are
complete,
24
are
complete,
you've
done
outstanding
work,
and
I
appreciate
it.
We
always
want
to
do
better.
Just
had
one
more
question.
The
recommendation
12,
which
is
is
listed
as
complete
in
the
report,
has
to
do
with
technology
to
allow
parents
to
electronically
submit
their
documentation.
I
know
that
we
talked
a
little
bit
earlier
about
data,
but
electronically
submit
documentation,
and
I
guess
my
question
might
be
for
is-
is
for
the
office
of
the
auditor.
A
M
Thank
you
chair
in
this
case.
Part
of
it
is
what
we
actually
you
know
the
the
finer
points
of
what
we
recommended
and
we
we
didn't.
We
didn't
recommend
that
they
implement
a
technological
solution
in
this
and
what
the
reason
is
it
might
not
have
been
a.
It
may
not
have
been
a
feasible
thing
to
recommend.
M
So
we
said,
let's
you
know,
consider
it
look
at
it
and
see
if
it
makes
sense
for
you
and
that's
sort
of
where
we
went
on
that
is
we
wanted
to
see
them.
Consider
it
consider
it
seriously
think
about
whether
or
not
it
made
sense
for
them.
When
we
came
came
back
to
do
our
follow-up,
they
had
considered
it.
They
said
it
did
make
sense
for
them
and
they
were
in
the
process
of
moving
that.
So,
as
far
as
we
were
concerned,
that
was
a
completed
recommendation.
A
Noted,
as
I
read
the
recommendation
you
you
ask
them
that
they
consider
they
have
done
and
bonus
we're
going
to
implement
it.
That's
that's
great,
I
think
that's
it
for
the
child
care
audit.
The
next
one
is
the
lands
down
audit,
so
I
will
turn
it
over
to
the
office
of
the
auditor
general,
and
I
will
also
ask
the
vice
chair
to
assume
the
chairmanship
of
this
committee
for
a
few
moments.
Thank
you.
G
A
A
H
H
At
the
time
of
our
audit,
we
found
that
there
was
no.
There
was
no
comprehensive
approach
or
document
or
tools
to
effectively
track
and
monitor
compliance
with
all
relevant
aspects
of
the
partnership
plan
agreements
and
to
characterize
these
agreements.
There's
approximately
70,
very
lengthy,
very
complex
agreements
that
are
required
that
have
obligations
with
with
both
partners
to
be
carried
out
that
have
been.
You
know
contractually
agreed
to.
H
H
So
in
this
follow-up
audit
we
reviewed
progress
that
was
made
on
17
recommendations
from
this
audit.
We
have
found
that
management
has
fully
implemented.
Six
of
the
17
recommendations
partially
completed
nine
one
was
not
started
and
when
we
were
unable
to
assess
what
I
want
to
acknowledge
acknowledge
is
that
significant
improvements
have
been
made
since
the
time
of
our
audit
tools
and
processes
have
been
developed.
H
H
H
Two
of
our
partially
complete
recommendations
warranted
a
new
recommendation
be
made
and-
and
these
are
outlined
in
our
report,
specifically
in
the
original
audit,
we
recommend
it
that
the
city
take
action
to
ensure
that
trust
accounts
for
reserve
funds
were
set
up,
as
agreed
to
in
both
the
stadium
lease
and
the
parking
structure.
Reciprocal
agreements.
H
H
So,
as
a
result
of
that,
we
recommended
that
the
city
review
and
revise
the
policy
to
make
sure
that
the
criteria
for
classification
of
a
p3
is
clear
and
that
there's
a
formal
evaluation
that
for
agreements
that
are
similar
in
nature,
that
it's
evaluated
against
this
criteria.
So
the
classification
is
is
clear.
H
E
Thank
you
very
much
chair
and
thank
you,
miss
brennan
for
that
report.
I
do
know
that
with
sick.
Can
you
hear
me
hello,
yeah,
okay,
I
do
know
that,
with
six
recommendations
complete
out
of
17
on
this
landstand
project
that
that
basically
is
an
f,
it's
a
failing
grade,
and
I
I
find
it
kind
of
disturbing,
because
this
was
such
an
important
contract
at
the
time
and
it
was
it
was
controversial.
E
K
He
can
speak
to
cities,
framework
and
policy,
but
in
fact-
and
I
think
those
are
documents
that
have
evolved
when
you're
talking
about
lansdowne
you're
talking
as
far
back
as
2009,
I
think
there
there's
been
significant
work
done
in
terms
of
the
lessons
learned
in
in
the
field
of
p3
and
for
the
p3s
that
you
know
that
we
have
negotiated
in
those
years.
The
the
framework
that
was
established
and
approved
by
council
has
always
been
the
guiding
document,
and
I
don't
know
if
will
wants
to
add
that.
O
Mr
chair,
to
that
point,
the
original
p3
policy
was
developed
in
2013.
It
has
since
gone
through
a
number
of
substantive
updates
since
that
point,
most
recently
in
2018
as
a
result
of
the
recommendations
from
this
audit,
and
so
the
the
p3
framework
has
been
improved
as
a
result
of
the
feedback
from
the
auditor
general.
E
Whose
responsibility
is
it
to
ensure
that
the
staff
has
the
has
the
the
knowledge
and
the
the
legal
understanding
of
what
we're
entering
into
here?
This
is
extremely
complicated,
an
agreement
that
we
were
entering
into
and
it's
clear
from
the
from
what
the
audit
recommendations
are
saying
that
we
we
were
relaxed
when
it
came
to
that.
I
think
that's
the
nice
question.
I
Okay,
thank
you.
So
we
did
have
an
audible
option
in
place
at
the
time
that
these
unsolicited
proposals
were
received,
and
we
also
did
have
a
dedicated
resource,
rob
mckay,
who
had
p3
expertise
and
had
some
has
subsequently
gone
on
to
work
with
p3
canada.
So
we
did
have
those
resources
and
that
expertise
in
place
and
prior
to
that,
we
had
regina
chartrand
who
over
who
oversaw
p3
office.
I
So
we
did
have
centralized
technical
expertise
at
the
time
that
we
entered
into
enter
this
agreement,
and
we
also
brought
on,
as
you
can
imagine,
expertise
in
terms
of
legal
and
technical
construction
and
elements
of
the
business
case
that
were
developed
as
this.
As
the
negotiations
progressed
on
this
p3
on
this
partnership.
E
E
E
K
Chair,
I
I
I
can
add
to
to
steve's
comments
that
of
the
outstanding
recommendations,
the
things
that
are
partially
complete
at
this
point.
Several
of
them
are
items
that,
as
ms
brennan
mentioned,
the
the
agreements
are
probably
unprecedented
in
terms
of
the
volume
and
complexity
of
them
and
departments
have
worked
with
legal
services
to
create,
as,
as
you
read
through
the
audit,
a
a
fairly
comprehensive
matrix
of
all
of
the
obligations
that
we
need
to
that.
We
need
to
follow
up
on
and
the
follow-up
audit.
K
E
It
feels
to
me
mr
chennai,
like
the
horse
got
out
of
the
barn
and
it
would
and
it's
this
comes.
The
recommendations
came
too
late.
I
was
just
wondering
if
I
could
ask
the
auditor
general
could
could
mr
a.g
could
many
of
these
problems
have
been
avoided?
Had
the
city
have
had
a
comprehensive
framework
in
place
like
you're
asking
for
now,
if
it
had
been
in
place
prior
to
going
ahead
with
this
lands
down
deal.
G
Mr
chair,
through
you
to
the
counselor,
I
think
I
think
the
reason
why
let
me
just
go
back
a
bit.
I
think
the
reason
why
we
did
this
audit
when
we
did
was
was
to
prevent
a
situation
where
it's
it's
too
late
to
do
anything
about
it.
We
there
were
a
number
of
people
who
asked
why
we
were
not
doing
an
audit
of
of
the
management
of
the
contract
earlier
well.
The
first
thing
we
had
to
do
was
we
had
to
wait
until
implementation
happened
until
some
of
the
management
activities
that
happened.
G
So,
thankfully
it
is,
it
is
not
too
late
to
make
these
changes
it's
it.
This
was
certainly
the
largest
project
that
the
the
city
had
undertaken
at
the
time,
and
you
know
I
I'm
pleased
to
say
that
that
through
the
audit
and
through
this
follow-up
management
and
this
office
have
a
lot
of
time
working
on
how
moving
forward
management
could
better
manage
that
contract
and,
at
the
same
time,
also
introduce
some
improvements
into
just
the
definition
of
p3s.
I
shouldn't
be
another
one
in
the
future.
G
So
in
answer
to
your
question
it
it
isn't
it
isn't
too
late.
Thankfully,
and
I
think
I
I
I
think
these
three
recommendations
that
that
we're
coming
up
with
which
management
is
totally
in
agree
with
and
which
the
office
will
will
follow
up
on
in
in
due
course,
hopefully
within,
hopefully
quickly
because
of
the
because
these
some
of
these
items
have
been
outstanding
for
some
time,
but
I
guess
an
answer.
E
Thank
you,
I'm
glad
to
hear
that
mr
eg
I'll
just
say,
though,
that
when
we
enter
into
these,
I
think
that
we
at
city
council-
and
I
think
the
taxpayer
who
ultimately
flips
the
bill
for
this,
want
to
be
confident
that
we
have
the
expertise
in
place
to
tackle
these
right
from
the
get-go
and
I'm
hoping
that
these
recommendations
will
go
a
long
ways
to
improving
that
amount
of
trust.
So,
thank
you.
That's
it
for
me.
Thanks.
A
J
Yes,
thanks
very
much
chair,
I
was
able
to
delay
that
meeting
till
later
today.
You
think
so
thanks
for
that.
I
just
I
wanted
to
start
just
by
saying
that
you
know
there
is
a
a
good
relationship
in
terms
of
rcfs.
They
do
work
closely
with
the
partners
there
and
my
office,
and-
and
you
know
the
issues
I'm
raising
here
today-
really
don't
have
anything
to
do
with
our
cfs
performance.
This
is
an
issue
for
the
city
across
the
board,
similar
to
counselor
meehan's
comments.
J
So
in
this
report
the
ag
states
that
p3
project
risks
related
to
asset
operation
and
maintenance
remain
relevant
and
can
be
quite
significant
in
cases
where
high-value,
long-term
contracts
have
been
entered
into
and
eeg
also
says,
the
city
would
not
receive
62
million
dollars
of
accrued
interest
on
its
deemed
equity
and
that
after
less
than
six
years
of
operation
based
on
oseg's
current
forecasts,
there
will
not
be
sufficient
cash
flow
for
the
city
to
receive
its
expected
return
on
investment.
Does
senior
city
staff
agree
with
this
assessment
by
the
auditor
general.
D
Mr
chair,
yes,
we
do,
and
you
know
certainly
wendy
or
isabel
can
can
weigh
in,
but
we
also-
and
I
realize
this
isn't.
This
is
a
corollary
to
your
question,
but
we've
also
haven't
had
to
pay
anything
from
city
coffers
to
support
the
losses
that
oseg
has
experienced
since
they've
started.
So
that's
where
the
city
has
been
protected,
but
you're
correct
in
the
forecast
of
at
the
end
of
the
waterfall.
J
I
J
Eight
percent-
oh,
they
get
eight
percent
of
the
return,
okay
and
in
terms
of
the
city's
forecast
for
what
we're
going
to
recoup
from
our
investment,
which
the
the
investment
didn't
include,
the
stadium
that
we
paid
for
right
that
wasn't
part
of
our
deemed
equity.
What
what
are
we?
Anticipating?
Zero
dollars
or.
I
J
J
Yes,
okay,
so
on
on
the
investment
the
city
made
at
lansdowne,
which
was
what
the
financial
amount
of
62
million
dollars
of
accrued
interest
on
its
deemed
equity.
It's
our
deemed
equity
that
we
invested
in
the
re
and
the
refurbishment
of
the
stadium,
which
was
not
included
it.
What
are
we
anticipated
to
recoup?
J
I
So
the
the
deemed
equity
is
not
actual
cash
outlay.
There
is
no
equity
that
was
put
in
the
interest
is
just
it
is
not.
It
was
an
expectation
from
a
forecast
it
it.
We
are
not
losing
any
interest
on
any
cash
that
we
would
have
invested,
and
the
business
case
shows
that
we're
actually
saving
in
terms
of
the
cost
to
operate
the
stadium.
I
J
A
I,
if
I
could
intervene
again,
I
will
remind
everyone
that
the
audit
focused
on
the
corporate
governance,
the
oversight
and
the
provision
of
services
of
the
of
that
p3
agreement
in
terms
of
corporate
governance
oversight
and
and
the
provision
of
services.
I
think
you
are
drifting
away
from
the
the
substance
of
the
audit.
A
J
G
Or
december,
well
I
indicated
to
to
the
chair
that
I'll
be
the
chair,
and
I
have
talked
about
scheduling
another
audit
committee
we'll,
and
we
were
going
to
start
to
talk
about
that
after
today
about
it
between
fight.
I
will
be
gone
before
by
the
end
of
the
year,
so
it
will
be
done
between
now
and
the
end
of
the
year.
J
Okay,
that's
great.
I've
got
a
lot
of
other
questions
here,
chair
the
city's
p3
guidelines
were
reviewed
and
they
include
specific
instructions
for
employees
responsible
for
for
p3
projects,
and
so,
as
part
of
that
discussion,
the
auditor
general
has
recommended
that
there
is
a
special
delivery
unit
or
a
a
management
unit
outside
of
the
specific
department
that
would
oversee,
centralized
p3
management.
J
O
That,
mr
chair,
the
way
that
to
p3
policy
is
structured
is
that
the
the
expertise
to
administer
the
p3s
are
really
delivered
from
a
corporate
perspective.
Expertise
on
contract
administration
reside
within
supply
services.
The
technical
expertise
resides
within
the
lead
or
operational
department,
and
additional
p3.
Specific
expertise
is
engaged
through
professional
services
as
and
when
required,
and
so
we
we
certainly
agree
with
the
recommendation
that
a
stronger
framework
needs
to
be
put
into
place.
However,
the
the
framework
as
outlined
in
in
the
policy
would
maintain.
G
And
mr
chair,
perhaps
I
could
indicate
when
I
indicated
earlier,
that
there
was
a
an
error
and
something
that
would
be
removing
some
reports.
It's
specifically
about
the
creation
of
a
p3
office
in
our
discussions
with
with
management
we've,
and
you
heard
mr
shenya
talk
about
the
hiring
of
a
specific
resource,
strengthening
the
the
framework
introducing
additional
controls
around
how
they
were
going
to
manage
this
particular
p3.
J
J
O
J
I'm
just
responding
to
the
report
because
in
the
report
it
says
that
they're
still
hired
after
the
contract
is
done
and
in
response
to
what
the
ag
is
recommending
in
terms
of
a
management
office
of
p3s,
and
we
say
that
subject
matter,
specific
p3
expertise
is
provided
in
response
to
that.
So
it's
not
just
the
initial
contract
set
up.
J
It
is
after
the
fact,
and
so
I'm
just
wondering
how
often
has
that
been
engaged
for
lansdowne
and
what
are
we
spending
on
that
in
the
city
as
a
whole
on
p3
expertise,
external
contracts
and
so
yeah?
If
you
can
follow
up
with
me
over
email,
that
would
be
great,
but
if
anybody
knows
if
we've
hired
anyone
as
a
p3
consultant
on
lansdowne
since
the
contract
has
been
signed,
it'd
be
helpful
to
know
that
now,
as
well.
J
So
also
within
the
auditor
general's
report,
it
says
that
a
p3
policy
should
include
a
requirement
for
the
city
to
formally
evaluate
and
document
agreements
similar
in
nature,
to
p3s
against
certain
criteria.
This
would
ensure
that
the
city
could
support
decisions
relating
to
the
classification
of
future
opportunities,
I.e
a
p3
versus
a
non-p3
and
provide
clear
direction
with
respect
to
the
management
and
oversight
and
applicable
accounting
requirements
relating
to
each
initiative.
So
I
guess
to
the
ag.
Why
is
this
such
an
important.
A
H
It
appeared
as
though
it
was
a
p3
arrangement.
When
we
discussed
this
with
the
the
finance
function,
they
had
clarified
that
it
wasn't.
It
was,
in
fact,
not
a
p3
arrangement,
and
this
was
actually
specifically
built
into
to
those
agreements.
So
our
recommendation
really
speaks
to
the
the
criteria
that
it's
clear,
whether
or
not
a
project
is
a
p3
or
not,
so
that
it
is
going
to
be
the
appropriate
policies
and
procedures
and
guidelines
are
applied
to
the
project.
J
Okay
and
in
the
city's
response
it
does
state
in
an
effort
to
support
staff.
The
p3
policy
will
be
updated
to
provide
clear
criteria
to
help
determine
what
constitutes
a
p3
and
the
requirement
to
formally
evaluate
new
projects
against
this
criterion.
So
just
can
you
can
city
staff,
explain
how
that
will
work
in
practice.
Just
give
me
an
example
of
how
that
will
function
and
what
it
means
to
you.
O
Mr
chair,
the
way
that
the
p3
policy
is
structured
is
it
as
an
overarching
policy,
a
more
detailed
set
of
procedures
and
an
even
more
detailed
set
of
guidelines
in
the
detailed
guidelines.
It
outlines
five
models
of
p3s
that
are
particular
importance
to
the
the
city
which
were
adapted
from
the
canadian
council
of
public-private
partnerships.
In
this
case,
none
of
them
meet
the
the
definition
of
arts
court
and,
as
the
deputy
author
general
pointed
out,
arts
court
specifically
identified
that
it
was
not
a
p3.
O
However,
in
those
guidelines,
it
does
talk
about
the
way
that
the
the
procurement
or
the
project
would
be
approached,
including
the
development
of
a
public
sector
comparator
an
associated
business
case
and
then
the
the
administration
plan.
And
so
in
this
recommendation
we
agree
that
we
would
like
to
provide
greater
clarity
in
the
policy
as
to
what
constitutes
a
p3
and
when
those
elements
of
project
management
need
to
be
incorporated
formally
to
align
with
the
guidelines.
J
F
A
A
Mr
shenya,
you
said
that
we
are
going
to
get
some
software
for
for
training
our
staff
on
contract
administration
contract
compliance
is,
is
quite
a
skill
set
and
is
certainly
a
departure
from
the
usual
skill
sets
that
that
some
of
our
managers
have
so.
My
comment
to
you
on
that
is
that
we
need
training
to
run.
A
Lansdowne
park
is
not
the
same
as
to
manage
the
contracts
complex
contracts
for
landsdowne
park,
so
I
want
you
to
take
that
away
and
for
consideration
in
terms
of
the
the
skill
sets
that
are
required
and
in
that
the
reputational
risk
the
contract
risks.
Why
is
the
yearly
monitoring?
And
this
is
to
management,
the
yearly
monitoring
of
life
cycle
plans
of
this
asset
of
this
city
asset,
as
recommended
in
and
and
complete
and
and
agreed
to.
Why
has
it
not
been
completed
after
three
years?
A
I
I
Okay,
so
thank
you.
Thank
you,
chair
for
the
question,
so,
as
noted
by
the
auditor
general
in
the
follow-up
report,
the
city
has
been
working
closely
with
oseg
for
a
number
of
years
to
monitor
the
progress
against
the
life
cycle
plans
for
the
stadium
and
for
the
parking
garage.
So
through
the
course
of
the
audit
process,
we've
demonstrated
to
the
auditor
general
that
the
life
cycle
repairs
were
completed.
I
So
then
that
way,
we
are
able
to
to
demonstrate
that
we're
able
to
mitigate
the
risk
through
this
regular
monitoring
and
review
of
the
life
cycle
plans,
so
the
city
has
in
place
a
formal
process
for
the
stadium
and
a
second
process
for
the
parking
structure.
So
in
addition,
we
have
also
taken
the
information
from
the
morrison
hirschfield
2019,
building,
condition
assessment
audit
put
it
into
a
spreadsheet
in
order
to
be
able
to
track
more
clearly
the
required
works
over
the
next
four
years.
I
B
A
The
noted
yearly
monitoring
of
all
the
life
cycle
plans
is
is
what
is
important
so
that
we
can
make
sure
that
we
we're
adapting
and
we
are
changing
as
per
the
program
agreement,
and
in
that
another
element
of
the
audit
is
that
the
city
is
that
we
established
trust,
accounts,
trust
accounts,
not
just
bank
accounts,
but
trust
accounts,
and-
and
these
were
not
set
up.
I
think,
as
as
said
in
the
in
the
audit
and
as
was
recommended
in
the
in
the
original
audit
report.
A
A
I
A
C
Yeah,
thank
you.
Thank
you.
Following
the
dialogue
between
isabel
and
shelly,
I'm
in
terms
of
what's
going
to
be
implemented,
I
just
want
to
know
how
this
is
going
to
be
done
for
future
p3s
is
this
is
there's
going
to
be
some
kind
of
protocol
put
in
place
that
will
be
put
in
place
for
p3s?
I
think
that
was
a
big
problem
is:
is
the
identification
of
them
and
it
was
got
kind
of
messy,
so
it's
it
they're
complicated
documents
and
they're
this
this
one.
C
C
A
O
Just
to
continue,
I
was
I
identifying
that
the
the
scope
of
work
for
the
consultant
that
has
been
engaged
to
do.
The
lessons
learned
exercise
is
to
specifically
look
at
the
p3
policy
and
to
compare
that
to
best
practices
in
other
organizations,
and
so
that
that
will
be
a
part
of
the
recommendations
that
come
back
from
that
review.
C
A
J
Very
much
chair-
and
I
just
want
to
come
back
to
again
the
the
auditor
general's
statement
around
the
the
two
different
reports
and
what
is
changing,
because
the
auditor
general
in
the
report
that
was
issued
to
us
is
the
suggestion,
considering
an
alternative
that
having
p3
agreements
would
not
be
managed
by
individual
apartment
departments
and
that
a
management
framework
would
be
set
up.
That
includes
a
centralized
p3
management
office.
So
I
just
want
to
be
clear
on
what's
changing
with
the
auditor
general's
report.
J
G
And
for
that,
and
for
that
I
apologize,
but,
as
we
indicated,
the
the
recommendation
was
was
out
there
initially,
given
the
problems
that
we
had
identified
and
as
late
as
as
last
the
very
end
of
last
week,
management
indicated
that
they
would
do
some
introduce
some
changes
that
would
meet
our
requirements
and
resolve
the
issues
without
the
without
the
requirement
to
establish
a
specific
p3
office
and
we're
okay.
With
that.
J
K
J
Thank
you
for
that.
The
report
also
states
that
the
city
is
not
effectively
identifying
analyzing,
mitigating
and
monitoring
risks
for
the
lands
down
agreements.
I
understand
there's
a
few
action
items
coming
out
of
this,
but
what
is
senior
staff's
response
to
that?
How
you
know
this
has
been
a
problem
since
the
get-go
of
this
contract.
J
What
are
we
doing
to
make
sure
that
in
the
future
we
mitigate
our
risks?
Here
we
don't
cost,
you
know
more
funds
to
taxpayers
and
that
we
actually
get
the
results
we're
looking
for
in
terms
of
our
deemed
equity.
What
what
are
we
doing?
That's
going
to
help
change
that,
and
I
I
you
know
some
of
it
relates
to
the
waterfall.
But
a
lot
of
this
is
just
you
know,
a
management
piece
and
and
the
agreements
that
we
signed.
So
you
know
what
big
big
moves.
K
J
Okay,
that's
very
very
helpful.
Thank
thank
you
for
that.
I'm
glad
that
that
is
being
recognized
now.
You
know,
on
the
whole,
with
the
terms
of
the
city
that
this
report
does
speak
to
to
p3s
it.
It
lays
it
out
in
very
stark
detail,
which
is
why
I'm
speaking
to
it-
and
you
know
for
me-
I
used
to
work
in
risk
management
for
five
years.
J
This
is
one
this
was
the
largest
debt
the
city
ever
took
on
when
we
took
on
the
lands
down
contract
lrt
one
and
two
now
are
larger
debts,
but
those
are
all
p3s,
and
so
we
really
have
a
lot
on
our
hands
in
terms
of
the
amount
of
debt
we've
taken
on
with
p3.
So
we
need
to
manage
this
in
terms
of
our
spending
and
our
risk.
J
In
a
sustainable
way,
or
it
costs
our
residents,
and
so
this
is
this
is
one
where
the
report
starts
to
get
the
to
the
heart
of
that.
So
I
appreciate
the
ag's
work
and
your
office's
work
on
that
here.
I
appreciate
your
your
diligence
today,
thanks
for
allowing
these
questions
and
and
staff,
I
I
want
to
work
with
you
on
the
lansdowne
piece,
as
we
move
forward
to
continue
that
strong
relationship,
but
to
make
sure
that
we've
got
you
know
our
risks
are
taken
into
consideration
and
managed
appropriately
I'll
leave
it.
A
M
M
Now
it's
important
to
remember
that
the
original
audit
found
the
city
had
not
breached
any
bylaws
policies
or
other
applicable
requirements,
but
rather,
but
what
we
found
is
that
it
lacked
a
clear
intake
and
evaluation
mechanism
for
a
project
of
this
nature
and
breadth.
So
we
made
three
recommendations
and
all
of
them
were
implemented.
M
Second,
the
orientation
training
for
new
managers
now
includes
guidance.
Staff
must
formally
consider
and
assess
enhanced
accountability
and
transparency
mechanisms
in
in
potentially
high
profile
situations,
so
that
you
know
where,
when
did
you,
should
they
hold
public
public
consultations
and
things
like
that?
And
lastly,
public
engagement
training
is
available
to
staff
and
we
noted
it
has
been
taken
by.
A
I
am
not
seeing
any
questions.
Members
last
chance,
questions
on
this.
No,
I
have
just
just
one
and
it's
a
little
bit
odd
quickly
looked
at
this
saw
the
summary
three
complete
100
percent,
all
good.
Until
it
looked
a
little
bit
closer
and
in
a
topsy-turvy
world
recommendation
number
two
you
your
office
is
considering
it
complete,
but
management
is,
is
considering
it
only
partially
complete
the
oddest
of
situations.
Can
somebody
tell
me
why
this?
Why
this
difference
and
what
further
work
management
is
going
to
do.
M
Oh,
I
think
I
can
explain
that
chair.
I
don't
think
we
were
being
overly
generous
in
this
case.
It's
just
a
matter
that
when
we
asked
management
for
their
to
prepare
their
their
updates,
they
give
us
the
information
and
then,
by
the
time
we
got
back
to
it.
They'd
actually
introduced
the
training
sessions
and
they'd
actually
taken
place.
So
we
were
able
to
give
that
a
a
completed
assessment,
and
so
management
was
correct
at
its
time
and
I
believe
we
were
at
ours.
A
M
We
found
that
it
had
been
clarified.
However,
these
intake
activities
are
not
yet
part
of
the
city's
inspection
process,
so
in
other
words,
the
city
has
told
the
shelters
what
we
expect
them
to
do.
However,
what
we
found
is
that
they
hadn't
yet
put
a
process
in
place
to
ensure
that
they
that
they
do
that
so,
mr
chair,
are
there?
Are
there
any
questions
related
to
this?
Follow
up
happen
to
take.
A
I
B
I
I'm
just
wondering
there
is
a
only
fully
implementing
two
recommendations
out
of
the
five:
it's
pretty
low
percentage,
40
percent,
and
I
think
this
will
present
very
low
percentage
on
that
one.
Is
the
staff
worry
that
the
area
that
are
we
are
we
aren't
taking
care
of
it?
Well,
this
recommendation
will
be
seriously
impacting
our
services.
B
Thank
you,
mr
chair,
so
this
was
a
very
extensive
review
of
our
management
of
emergency
shelter
contracts
and
we
have
completed
there's
a
number
of
sub
recommendations
under
each
item
and
we
have
completed
12
of
the
15
sub
recommendations.
The
outstanding
pieces
are
the
actual
standards
themselves.
We
do
have
draft
standards
that
have
been
well
they've
been
drafted,
we've
consulted
with
the
community
and
really
the
delay
was.
B
You
know
we
had
outlined
it
originally
to
come
with
the
10-year
housing
and
homelessness
plan
to
cpsc
in
march
of
this
year,
and
when
our
legislative
processes
were
were
stopped
due
to
covid.
We
subsequently
did
bring
the
10-year
plan
in
june.
However,
because
of
the
situation
we
now
find
ourselves
in
with
covid,
we
felt
that
though
we
had
a
complete,
the
draft
standards
were
complete.
B
We
didn't
need
to
go
back
out
and
do
some
further
consultation
around
some
of
the
elements
of
kovid
that
may
be
impacting
the
standards
that
we
then
put
forward
in
q1
of
next
year.
Specifically,
you
know
around
pieces
about.
You
know
food
services,
cleaning,
bed,
separation,
you
know
appropriate
washroom
and
dining
facilities.
So
we,
the
full
standards
and
the
inspection
tools
that
align
with
the
standards
will
be
at
cpsc
in
q1
of
2021.
I
Thank
you,
that's
very
a
great
answer
and
my
question
probably
will
be
probably
it
will
be
with
the
auditor
general
office
and
probably
staff
is
covered
overt
and
the
pandemic.
Is
it
gonna
delay
a
lot
of
these
implementation?
I'm
assuming
like
to
use
a
common
sense.
I'm
assuming
some
of
this
recommendation
is
going
to
be
pushed
back
and
delayed,
and
do
you
do
we
know
if
we
have
a
time
frame
or
are
we
prepared
for.
B
B
Certainly,
when
we
look
at
how
covid
is
is
impacting
our
shelters
and
their
requirements
to
look
at
the
the
revised
or
updated
shelter
standards
through
that
lens.
There
is
some
work
to
do
there
definitely,
but
we
are
very
confident
that
we
will
meet
our
timelines
to
get
it
before.
Committee
and
council.
C
Thank
you
very
much
chair
and
thank
you
for
the
report.
Of
course,
this
is
something
that's
quite
crucial
to
us
right
now
and,
and
we
want
to
make
sure
everything
is
up
to
date
and
in
terms
of
our
standards.
You're
talking
about
a
report
coming
in
in
the
first
quarter
of
2021
is:
is
this
going
to
be
an
update
on
standards?
Is
this
something
that's
going
to
be
accounts?
The
recommendation
to
council
to
update.
B
That
is
correct
through
the
audit
we're
still
operating
under
our
2005
emergency
shelter
standards.
So
there
are
standards
that
the
shelter
providers
are
still
you
know,
abiding
by
or
still
have
to
follow
the
expectations
and
requirements
of
those
standards,
but
through
the
but
through
the
audit.
The
auditor
general
identified
that
you
know
our
standards
were
out
of
date.
They
didn't
reflect
the
changes
in
the
shelter
environment,
so
we
have
consulted
and
we
have
refreshed
those
standards
and
we
have
updated
them.
B
B
Thank
you,
mr
chair,
so
in
response
to
the
counselors
question,
we
do
keep
track
of
all
the
individuals
who
utilize
an
emergency
shelter
in
ottawa.
We
use
a
database
called
heifes,
it's
the
homeless,
individual
homeless
individuals
and
family
information
center
system.
Sorry,
so
we
are
collecting
data
nightly
on
who's
in
the
emergency,
shelter
and
demographics
about
those
individuals.
B
So,
in
looking
at
the
2005
shelter
standards,
we
actually
have
45
new,
say
standards
that
we've
incorporated
we've
also
enhanced
35
other
standards
in
the
original
standards
document
and
we've
updated
nine
additional
standards
with
current
current
policies,
so
they're
reflective
of
guidelines
and
procedures
we
have
in
place
but
may
not
have
been
incorporated
into
the
standards
so,
for
instance,
an
example
would
be
weapons
as
an
example,
you
know
in
the
past
we
didn't
have
a
policy
that
specifically
referenced.
You
know
weapons
and
you
know
the
pro.
B
L
L
B
L
Okay-
and
my
last
piece
is
on
the
financial
controls:
do
you
have
any
updated
information
on
that,
because
this
is
another
example
of
vulnerable
clients
that
we
just
don't
have
enough
money
to
do
all
that
we
want
to
do
there,
so
it's
so
critical
that
we
pay
attention
to
the
money
that
we
do
have
and
make
sure
it's
well
spent.
So
is
there
additional
efforts
being
made
here
on
the
recommendations
with
respect
to
financial
controls.
B
Mr
chair,
so
the
audit
did
indicate
that
we,
you
know
we
were
shelters,
were
receiving
the
correct
payments
for
the
individuals
that
were
in
the
beds,
so
that
was
in
place.
I
believe
the
comment
around
financial
controls
was
specific
to
some
use
of
beds
where
there
might
have
been
a
double
billing,
so
we
have
rectified
that
and
stopped
that
practice.
F
No,
that's!
Okay.
I
didn't
put
my
hands
up
question
to
perhaps
to
to
to
the
auditor.
I
know
he
didn't.
It
wasn't
part
of
the
audit
making
sure
we
have.
We
have
submit
all
our
expenses
to
the
province
with
the
cost
of
additional
of
hotel
and
we
we
know
we
spent
quite
a
bit
in
the
past,
but
have
we
have
have
we
keep
a
record
of
all
the
additional
expense
is
coming
because
of
copic
or
other
like?
Is
that
all
been
taken
care
of?
A
B
I
do
thank
you,
mr
chair,
so
to
the
counselor's
question:
absolutely
we
keep
track
of
all
of
our
shelter
costs.
You
know
and
separate
from
covet.
We
are.
We
are
absolutely
tracking,
all
of
our
costs
related
to
covet
and-
and
you
know
having
to
provide
you
know
the
the
isolation
and
the
physical
distancing
spaces
that
we
require,
and
to
date,
we've
received
money
from
the
provincial
government
and
the
federal
government
to
cover
the
expenses
associated
with
that
portion
of
our
covid
response.
F
E
A
Okay,
thank
you.
We
will
be
able
to
wrap
up
and
and
provide
over
all
feedback
and
miss
van
butzkirk
just
to
complete
this
this
portion.
Thank
you
very
much
for
all
your
work
in
the
cast
past
couple
of
since
march,
and
and
always
in
my
ward,
the
jim
dural
dempsey
community
center
and
and
the
the
the
extraordinary
efforts
of
your
team
in
providing
services.
A
Let
me
just
point
out
with
respect
to
this
audit
the
original
recommendations
and-
and
I
appreciate
that
things
have
changed
with
covid.
The
original
recommendation
number
one
which
is
partially
complete.
The
commitment
was
q1
2019
recommendation
number
three.
One
of
the
elements
q2
2019
recommendation,
number
four
partially
complete.
The
original
recommendation
was
q2
2018
and
I
guess
my
point
is
audits
are
important
and
the
recommendations
to
move
forward
to
improve
our
our
services.
A
Our
performance
is
important
because
we
want
to
be
ready
for
situations
like
the
extraordinary
pandemic
that
we're
in
I
don't
require
you've
done
an
outstanding
job,
but
for
you,
and
for
all
our
other
other
staff,
general
managers
audits
are
important
and-
and
we
see
one
of
the
reasons
why
they're
important
it
sets
us
up
for
success
when
things
go
off
when
things
change,
so
that
we
could
provide
services
to
the
residents
that
count
on
it
and
shelters
is
a
vital,
vital
part.
So
thank
you
for
your
service
and
take
that.
A
G
A
I
think
we
saw
on
one
of
your
original
slides
number
in
your
presentation,
mr
auditor
general,
a
decline
in
the
recommendations
in
the
implementation
of
those
recommendations,
and
I
think
that's
something
that
that
we
need
to
correct
and
I've
spoken
to
that
as
part
of
several
of
the
audits
that
we've
seen
that
we've
seen
today.
Sometimes
the
manage
this
city
management.
A
Has
those
reports
for
nine
or
ten
months
and
and
still
recommendations
are
not
have
not
have
not
been
implemented,
and
we
want
to
ensure
that
taxpayers
get
value
from
staff
from
the
office
of
the
auditory
general,
and
you
talked
about
mr
auditor
general
about
the
investment
that
we
do
in
the
office
of
the
auditor.
General,
it's
not
just
an
expense,
it's
an
investment
so
that
we
can
do
better,
and
I
made
that
point
specifically
with
ms
van
buskirk
shelters.
But
you
know,
child
care
is
an
important
element.
Markets
drive
the
markets.
A
E
G
That
thank
you,
madam
question.
I
I
think,
as
an
organization
whether
whether
we're
talking
about
a
manager
or
we're
talking
with
a
counselor
or
even
a
taxpayer,
we
should
be
concerned
because
of
that
investment
that
I
spoke
about
earlier.
But,
more
importantly,
I
I
have
no
doubt
I
mean
I've
been
at
the
city
for
a
while.
E
D
Well,
chair
the
you
know
the
the
comment.
First
of
all,
let's
say
that
you
know
the
auto
general
is
in
his
last
few
months
as
our
auditor
general,
and
I
think
he's
done
a
an
amazing
job
during
his
tenure
looking
at
at
things
that
have
really
helped
manage
from
the
city
improve
the
way
we
operate
and
he's
been
very
prolific
at
making
recommendations.
He's
there's
a
lot
of
recommendations
he's
given
us
and
I'm
proud
to
say
that
we've
been
very
good
at
implementing
them
just
for
context.
D
Since
2005
we've
been
tracking,
auto
recommendations
that
have
come
through
the
auditor
general
by
mr
hughes
and
his
predecessor,
and
we
have
we've
had
since
2005
2416
recommendations
that
have
been
made
to
city
management,
on
the
various
audits
and
I'm
proud
to
say
that
96
of
all
those
recommendations
have
been
completely
implemented,
you're,
seeing
a
little
bit
of
a
you
know
a
trend
here
now
in
the
last
few
audits.
Last
several
years
where
you
know,
there's
been
some
that
haven't
been
implemented.
D
As
you
talked
about
today,
you've
heard
some
reasons
and
explanations.
Why
they're
not
can
we
get
better
absolutely,
but
I
also
like
to
bring
counsel
back
and
anyone
listening
back
to
the
context
that
96
completion
rate
on
over
2400
recommendations
is
is
a
demonstration
that
staff
are
committed
to
implement
the
recommendations.
D
I
think
sometimes
we're
a
little
too
aggressive
and
optimistic
in
the
dates
we
put
in
the
management
responses,
but
when
we
could,
when
we
can
implement
them,
sometimes
things
happen
that
push
us
off
and
sometimes
we
drop
the
ball
I'll,
acknowledge
that
that
happens.
But,
overall
I
don't
want
to
come
to
the
conclusion.
I
can't
come
to
the
conclusion.
I
hope
the
audit
committee
doesn't
council
does
that
staff
aren't
diligent
in
terms
of
implementing
the
recommendations.
Our
track
record
speaks
for
itself.
D
We
will
continue
to
pursue
the
ones
that
are
outstanding
to
make
sure
they're
implemented,
and
I
understand
the
vice
chair
has
a
motion
that
will
help
us
do
that
and
I'm
fully
supportive
of
the
motion
as
I've
seen
it
this
morning.
I
think
that's
a
good
move
for
us
to
have
the
conversations
we
need
to
have
and
be
able
to
get
proper
explanation
from
the
staff
that
are
working
on
it
for
the
chair
and
vice
chair
and
to
be
able
to
bring
back
the
audit
committee.
D
E
I
I
acknowledge
your
comments
there,
mr
canalavicus,
but
you
know
40
of
them
haven't
been
implemented,
excuse
me
and
when
you
say
we
dropped
the
ball.
I
think
the
emotion
that
I
would
like
to
support
today
is
going
to
address
that
and
hopefully
keep
the
recommendations
top
of
mind
so
that
that
doesn't
happen
because
the
taxpayers
are
reliant
on
us.
For
that.
So
excuse
me:
it's
not
a
covet.
It's
just
a
tickle
with
that
I'd
like
to
read
the
recommendations.
A
E
Yes,
whereas
management
is
committed
to
ensuring
the
timely
implementation
of
audit
recommendations
and
whereas
follow-up
is
a
key
component
of
an
effective
audit
process
in
that
it
informs
council
as
to
whether
recommendations
have
been
implemented.
Whereas
there
are
instances
where
time
lags
to
implementation
can
occur.
Given
the
nature
of
the
audit
recommendation
due
to
factors
such
as
evolving
statutory
requirements,
evolving
technology
and
implementations
on
procurement
and
budget,
driven
considerations,
changes
to
existing
collective
agreements
to
enable
implementation
etc.
E
Formulate
recommendations
in
terms
of
direction
to
staff
for
directions
by
the
audit
committee
and
council
on
the
disputed
item
receive
background
information
when
the
recommendation
has
been
deemed
no
longer
applicable.
Since
the
audit
recommendations
were
approved,
example,
staff
cannot
implement
the
recommendation
or
change
in
resources
is
required
to
implement
and
also
direct
staff
on
next
steps
and
finally
undertake
any
additional
or
ad
hoc
work
or
oversight
role.
As
directed
by
the
audit
committee
and
city
council.
G
G
For
example,
as
you
saw
in
some
of
the
recommendations
that
we
provided
some
of
the
reports
that
we
provided
to
you
earlier
when
we
find
that
circumstances
have
changed
and,
and
the
recommendation
is
no
longer
applicable,
we
say
so
when
we
report
on
it.
I
don't
think
that's
something
that
would
necessarily
come
up
in
the
that
would
that
would
and
it's
necessary
to
be
handled
by
the
committee.
That's
already
addressed.
I
think
the
in
my
time
there
have
there
have
just
been.
G
There
has
not
been
a
single
disagree
between
staff
and
this
office,
so
they're
having
having
that
covered
by
the
committee
but
would
be
covered
by
the
working
group
would
be
of
benefit
should
they
arise.
I
just
haven't
seen
any
arise
in
in
my
time,
and
I
don't
remember
even
in
a
couple
of
years
prior
to
me
where
there
were
disagreements.
G
But,
more
importantly,
I
I
can't.
I
do
not
know
of
a
single
audit
committee
that
I'm
aware
of
where
an
audit
recommendation
status
report
isn't
provided
directly
to
the
audit
committee.
This
is
the
only
one
I'm
aware
of,
and
I
don't
having
having
that
report
go
to
go
to
a
working
group.
I
would
certainly
participate
in
that
working
group.
It's
it's.
It's
important
work
to
be
done.
I
I
don't
understand
why
there
is
resistance
to
submit,
for
information
purposes
only
to
audit
committee.
G
The
implementation
status
on
recommendations
every
other,
every
other
audit
committee
in
the
world
does
so
it's
a
best
practice
identified
by
all
of
those
organizations
that
that
work
in
the
field
of
audit
the
here
in
ottawa,
we've
got
the
canadian
auditing
accountability
foundation,
it's
a
best
practice
that
that
they
recommend.
So
I
am
supportive
of
it
of
the
motion.
G
I
would
suggest
that
you
could
probably
implement
a
best
practice
where
the
status
report
is
provided
for
information
purposes
to
to
auto
committee.
I
think
that
would
be
a
benefit,
but
certainly
I
would
I
would
be
prepared
to
be
part
of
that
that
that
working
group,
but
I
think
you
could
make
it
stronger
if
you
also
provided
that
information
for
information
purposes
only
to.
A
E
A
I
think
are
are
important
parts
of
of
this
motion,
and
I
am-
I
am
fully
supportive
of
that.
I
just
want
to
point
out
and
and
just
get
the
concurrence
of
the
auditor
general
that
this
working
group
does
not
substitute
for
audit
follow-ups.
The
the
the
working
group
is
precedes
the
audit
follow-ups.
We
we
as
a
working
group,
cannot
do
the
work
of
the
office
of
the
auditor
general
and
a
follow-up
is
a
vital
part
of
any
audit
is.
Is
that
correct?
You
would
still
do
audit
follow-ups.
G
Absolutely,
as
I
indicated,
mr
chair
follow-ups
are
a
best
practice,
even
in
every
other
router
committee
that
where
they
regularly
receive
these
updates
and
follow
up
with
management,
that's
a
regular
occurrence
in
pretty
well
every
audit
committee,
I'm
aware
of
they're.
The
follow-ups
are
still
done
by
the
audit
group
because,
as
you
saw,
there
are
sometimes
the
self-assessment
done
by
management
sometimes
differs
from
the
assessment
that
is
done
by
the
auditors
when
they
go
in
to
do
their
follow-up.
G
So,
yes,
the
pulp
would
still
continue,
but
I
would
encourage
submitting
on
a
regular
basis,
the
unblur
when
you're,
if
you're,
going
to
be
providing
that
status
report
to
the
working
group.
My
suggestion
is,
you
also
provide
that
to
to
audit
committee,
like
every
other
audit
committee
in
the
world,
because,
as
I
said,
this
is
the
only
audit
committee
that
I'm
aware
of
that
doesn't
provide
the
status
report.
E
Mr
agee,
I
I
think
over
the
years
we've
we've
discussed
that
you
know
the
difficulty.
I
think
that
your
office
has
in
undertaking
new
audits
when
you're
continuing
doing
follow-up
audits.
Is
that
still
the
case?
Is
that
still
a
concern
for
you
and
what
would
this
motion
if
passed
today
mean
for
your
workload.
G
We've
talked
about
that
many
times
in
coming
back
to
audit
committee
with
follow-up
reports
in
the
past
and
indeed
in
these
follow-up
reports
in
in
some
instances,
I
can
think
of
three
audits,
where
we
have
three
follow-ups
where
we
have
gone.
We
have
rescheduled
additional
follow-ups
which
is,
in
my
mind,
a
waste
of
not
just
the
first
audit
resource
where
the
audit
report
was
prepared,
but
then
a
waste
of
the
audit
resource
to
do
the
follow-up.
G
When
we
did
that
for
the
the
audit
report
for
effort,
we
already
did
a
follow-up
reported
ethics,
but
the
implementation
wasn't
significant
and
we
felt
that
it
was
so
important
that
we
should
go
back.
So
we
did
a
follow-up
again
on
those
recommendations
on
the
the
lansdowne
report.
Today
we
did
our
follow-up
on
the
management
of
the
lansdowne
contract.
We
did
our
follow-up
and
we've
identified
three
more
recommendations
that
we
will
follow
up
going
forward.
So,
yes,
everything
that
we
can
implement
to
improve
the
implementation.
G
E
Well,
I
I
tend
to
agree
because
that
was
my
intent.
I
was
hoping
to
see
something
very
simple,
just
a
quarterly
report,
from
management
to
city
manager,
to
us
to
the
committee
to
remind
us
that
these
are
the
recommendations.
Just
are
they
started?
Are
they
complete,
partially
complete?
That's
all
we
need
to
do
keeps
it
top
of
mind
for
us
at
the
committee
means
nothing
not
no
more
work
for
the
audit,
the
auditor
general
and
his
team
and
there's
nothing
wrong
with
the
way
we
do
things.
E
A
A
A
G
I
I
I
So
it
might
be
the
fact
that
if
you
go
ahead
with
this
motion
that
it
would
be,
in
fact,
a
subcommittee
which
would
of
course,
then
require
a
committee
coordinator
notice,
under
our
notice,
by
law,
procedural
bylaw
people
getting
together
in
a
meeting
a
public
discussion,
a
report
being
drafted
an
agenda
being
drafted.
So
all
of
that
to
say
I'm
not
certain.
That
was
the
intent
as
I
followed
along
in
the
discussion,
and
I
took
the
vice
chair's
comments
very
seriously.
She
didn't
want
to
add
to
the
workload
at
this
point.
I
L
Thank
you,
mr
chair.
I
think
I
think
we
need
to
listen
to
the
clerk's
advice
here
and
I'll
I'll
say
why
the
idea
of
follow-ups
to
audits
was
something
that
you
and
I
actually
worked
on
in
the
last
term
of
council,
because
they
used
to
be
just
part
of
the
audit
annual
report
and
we
worked
with
the
auditor
general
to
make
it
a
separate
reporting
to
the
committee
so
that
there
was
more
importance
put
on
the
follow-ups
by
city
staff.
I
think
we
had
a
lot
of
progress
with
that.
L
I
I'm
hoping
the
ag
would
agree
there.
My
concern
here
is
that
the
ag
is
telling
us
no
one
else.
Does
this
and
the
purpose
of
doing
the
follow-ups
in
the
audit
committee
is
so
that
the
public
realizes
that
we're
paying
attention
to
areas
that
the
ag
has
said
that
tax
dollars
could
be
at
risk
and
we're
not
just
issuing
a
report
about
it.
We're
actually
following
up
and
saying,
are
the
recommendations
being
implemented?
So
I
I'm
going
to
encourage
you
as
someone
I
respect
a
lot.
L
C
C
A
E
A
I
am
I
am
withdrawing
the
motion
at
this
time
and
I
will
take
it
offline
with
the
with
the
clerk
and
with
the
auditor
general
and
with
my
with
my
colleagues
on
this
on
this
committee
to
make
sure
that
we
are.
We
are
in
concert
with
that
when
when
and
if
this
comes
back
either
at
council
or
at
at
a
subsequent
audit
committee.
So
on
that
I
withdraw
the
motion,
I
don't
need
any.
I
just
withdraw
the
motion
kevin
and
that's
done.
Okay.
A
Thank
you
very
much,
and
so
I
think
that
concludes
item
number
one
of
the
auditor
general
report
on
audit
follow-ups
and
the
recommendation
is
that
the
audit
committee
received
the
report
on
audit
follow-ups
and
detailed
audit
follow-ups
report
and
recommend
that
council
consider
and
approve
the
report
recommendations.
Is
that
carried
ready.
C
A
Thank
you
any
dissent
seeing
and
hearing
none
and
moving
on
in
the
agenda
any
in-camera
items
I'm
seeing
none
any
notices
of
motion
by
any
member.
Thank
you
inquiries,
any
other
business
motion
to
adjourn.
Okay.
Thank
you.
I
believe
there
is
a
media
availability.
It
will
be
15
minutes
after
the
end
of
this,
so
let's
say
at
12
50
in
15
minutes
from
now
at
10
to
1
media
availability.