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From YouTube: Planning Advisory Committee - 15 June 2022
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D
I
live
in
the
pen
and
I
just
saw
fallow
field
in
cedarville.
I
had
about
five
on
one
side
of
the
550
footers,
all
spruce
and
fine,
and
then
I
had
two
that
were
leaning.
There
were
50
footers.
In
fact,
I
just
had
a
train
leave
the
house
this
morning.
I
had
to
pull
it
out
of
the
ground.
It
was
leaning
so
badly.
C
Sounds
like
you've
ruled
chair,
so
excellent.
That's
where
it's
out.
B
I
don't
imagine
anyone's
gonna
challenge
the
chair
on
my
quorum
ruling,
regardless
alien
is,
is
supposed
to
attend.
We
do
have
some
regrets
from
a
couple
members.
Three
members
in
particular,
but
alien
did
mention
that
they
would
be
here
and
we
have
another
member
arriving
likely
a
little
later
closer
to
six.
So
we
will
go
ahead.
B
We
did
talk
about
a
couple
things
and
I
asked
if
there'd
be
interest
in
in
receiving
more
information
about
some
of
the
some
of
the
files
that
the
city
had
been
working
on
because
they
kept
on
coming
up
in
in
discussions
at
this
at
this
advisory
committee.
So,
while
well
tonight
isn't
exactly
speaking
about
anything,
that's
that's
earth
shattering
or
or
upcoming
on
the
council
agenda.
B
The
three
things
are
sort
of
living
breathing
documents
that
the
city
has
that
will
be
updated
in
the
future
as
we
go.
So
it's
not
that,
while
these
are
all
previously
approved
by
council,
these
are
all
things
that
will
continue
to
develop.
In
fact,
the
high
performance
development
standards.
We
have
a
site
plan.
B
We
have
a
site
plan
report
coming
forward,
which
does
include
an
adaptation
of
some
of
these
some
of
the
high
performance
standards
into
our
cycling
policies,
so
this
stuff
is
still
very
relevant,
even
though
it's
previously
approved
it's
still
worthy
of
discussion.
B
I
think
it's
helpful,
especially
when
the
fact
that
we
record
these
meetings
and
they're
available
for
public
consumption
after
the
fact
I
do
think
having
a
good
discussion
with
with
multiple
groups
from
from
showing
representing
across
section
of
the
city,
I
think
is,
is
helpful
because
they
are
things
that
we
end
up
doing,
and
these
are
reports
that
come
to
fact.
I
think
they
went
to
three
different
committees
based
on
based
on
the
the
nature
of
them.
The
iphone's
film
standard.
C
A
B
But
nonetheless,
it's
at
least
went
to
fedco
and
planning
committee.
I
know
that
and
and
environment
committee
kind
of
has
a
role
in
this
stuff,
but
it's
it
doesn't
necessarily
get
approved
environment
committee,
but
it's
it's.
They
certainly
come
all
through
it.
So
while
we
definitely
have
the
quorum
that
I've
since
declared,
I
wanted
to
well,
first
of
all,
obviously
I'll
call
the
metered
order.
I
guess
we
will
do
a
roll
call
just
for
formality's
sake,
so
here
count.
If
you
want
to
do
that,
I
can
do
it.
If
you
want.
C
Chair
I'm
available
member
bassett
member
duncan,
I
believe,
just
joined.
C
B
Yeah
I
go
through
that
you
went
through
the
list.
The
public
members
then
forgot
the
top
three
there.
It's
okay
eric
well
that
slide.
I
won't
put
this
in
your
semi-annual
review
that
I
do
that.
I
don't
do.
Okay
declaration
of
interest
see
none
confirmation
of
minutes
for
our
previous
two
meetings,
so
our
november
10
2021
meeting
and
our
march
2nd
2022
meeting.
Can
we
confirm
those
minutes?
B
C
Thanks
scott,
just
to
I
guess,
just
to
request
we,
you
and
I
have
had
just
a
bit
of
an
exchange
following
on
from
the
november
meeting,
and
I'm
just
wondering
if
it
would
be
possible
in
the
minutes
that
where
there
is
a
request
to
to
staff,
I
guess
for
information-
I
don't
know
if
it's
appropriate,
but
if
it
might
be
useful
to
include
that
request
in
the
minutes.
C
Just
so,
we
don't
lose
track
of
those
requests,
because
I
believe
that
we
sort
of
we
did
sort
of
lose
track
of
one
of
the
one
of
the
queries
that
I
had
back
in
november
about
the
discussion
papers
and
that
might
be
a
useful
way
of
of
making
sure
that
that
doesn't
happen
anyway.
So
that's
a
suggestion
for
the
minutes.
Thank
you.
C
I
can
do
chair
so
just
to
clarify
the
minutes
as
presented
for
the
past.
Two
meetings
are
confirmed,
yes
and
if
there's
any
requests
for
directions
this
meeting,
they
would
be
explicitly
noted
in
the
minutes.
Perfect.
B
Okay,
so
the
items
we
have
tonight:
high
performance,
film,
standard,
better
buildings,
ottawa
strategy
and
better
homes,
loan
programs.
So
again,
these
are
things
that
have
come
up
both
at
our
november
and
march
meetings
in
discussion
on
the
items
that
were
on
those
agendas.
So
I
thought
it
would
be
again
useful
for
a
presentation
from
the
relevant
staff
because
we
didn't
have
the
relevant
staff
in
those
discussions.
So
we
will
start
with
the
high
performance
development
standards.
A
C
Right
if
I
could
also
just
I've,
I
noticed
that
janice
is
also
in
the
attendees
if
she
could
accept
the
prompt
if
she's
intending
to
be
a
panelist
and
I'll
screen
share
the
presentation.
Whenever
I
requested.
A
A
A
So
high
performance
development
standard,
it's
also
known
as
the
green
standard
ontario,
are
implementing
similar
types
of
things
supplied
through
the
development
approval
process,
using
the
planning
authorities
for
site
plan
application
and
plan
of
subdivision.
It's
aimed
to
advance
sustainable
and
resilient
designs
covering
the
subject
matters
in
that
imagery
there.
A
So,
as
mentioned
previously,
there
are
a
number
of
ontario
municipalities
that
haven't
adopted
green
development
standards.
There's
a
few
listed
here
and
actually,
since
we
did
this
review,
I've
heard
from
a
number
of
others,
but
have
them
either
coming
forward
or
under
development.
Currently,
so
there's
there's
more
coming
in
the
coming
years,
so
the
oldest
one
being
toronto,
which
was
first
adopted
as
voluntary
in
2006
and
then
mandatory
in
2010..
So
next
slide.
A
So
the
high
performance
development
standard,
it's
kind
of
the
coming
together
of
our
climate
projections,
work
our
energy
evolution
work
and
our
draft
official
plan
work.
So
the
draft
official
plan
lays
out
the
enabling
policy
framework
to
enable
the
high
performance
development
standard
and
the
subject
matter
that
the
high
performance
development
standard
covers
really
seeks
to
address
the
energy
evolution
targets
and
the
concerns
coming
out
of
the
climate
projections
around
resiliency
and
adapting
to
the
changing
climate.
A
I
was
approved
by
council
in
april
of
this
year
and
it's
coming
into
effect
when
the
new
official
plan
is
approved.
So
at
the
moment
that
is
with
the
province,
and
we
are
not
quite
sure
on
the
exact
timing
of
that,
so
it's
a
little
bit
to
be
determined
at
the
moment.
A
Next
slide
at
a
high
level
I
mentioned
previously
by
performance
development
standard
is
enabled
through
our
planning
act
authorities
so
driven
by
provincial
policy
statements
that
advance
energy
conservation
and
measures
to
adapt
to
climate
change.
A
A
What's
the
difference
between
a
standard
and
a
guideline,
so
essentially,
if
we
think
of
the
spectrum
of
zoning
bylaws
being
highly
specific
and
highly
mandatory,
with
a
rigorous
process
for
non-conformity
and
guidelines
being
a
little
bit
more
subjective,
the
standard
sort
of
falls
in
the
middle
of
that,
where
it's
highly
specific,
but
it's
not
quite
as
rigorous
a
process
if
there
are
scenarios
where
alternative
compliance
paths
or
other
types
of
measures
want
to
be
proposed,
so
it
sort
of
falls
in
the
middle
there.
A
In
terms
of
level
of
prescriptive
restrictiveness
of
the
standard
next
slide,
the
high
furnace
development
standard,
it
will
not
apply
to
project
construction
projects
that
are
building
permit.
Only
tier
one
of
the
standard
applies
to
site
plan
and
plan
of
subdivision
tier
two
is
completely
voluntary,
which
we'll
be
looking
at,
proposing
possible
incentive
options
in
the
coming
next
term
of
council
and
for
city
projects,
they're
subject
to
the
green
building
policy,
which
we've
received
direction
on
to
update
and
align
with
the
hypothermic
development
standard.
A
So,
as
mentioned
previously,
there's
two
well
there's
three
tiers
to
the
standard
tier
one
is
mandatory
and
tier
two
is
voluntary
and
then
the
intent
of
the
tiers
as
it
relates
to
the
energy
performance
metric,
is
for
them
to
lay
out
the
path
towards
where
we
need
to
get
to
for
energy
evolution
targets
so
over
the
next
10
years
or
so.
A
So
the
benefits
of
the
standard,
it's
aiming
to
help
grow
the
green
job
sector,
both
in
design
and
construction,
help
build
capacity
to
meet
the
future
building
code.
Changes,
including
anticipated
targets
for
near
zero
emission
buildings
by
2030,
help
to
reduce
our
greenhouse
gas
emissions,
improve
public
health
outcomes
and
reduce
negative
community
impacts
as
a
result
of
extreme
heat
events,
as
well
as
set
out
improved
soil
volume
standards
for
ottawa
tree
canopies
next
slide
at
a
high
level.
There
are
a
number
of
metrics
in
the
standard.
A
These
are
the
high
level
categories
that
it
covers,
so
energy,
water,
waste
transportation,
climate,
resiliency,
health
and
ecology,
and
next
slide
I'll,
go
into
a
brief
description
of
what's
covered
for
site,
planet
and
planet
subdivision
so
under
site
plan
under
tier
1,
there
are
12
metrics
they're
all
listed
here,
I'm
not
going
to
read
them
out
for
you,
this
slide
that
can
certainly
be
distributed
after
the
presentation.
If
anybody
wants
to
reference
back
to
it
and
then
in
tier
two,
there
are
substantially
more
and
there
are.
A
There
are
about
22
metrics
under
tier
two
for
foresight
plan
in
those
in
those
category
areas.
Next
slide
and
then
plano
subdivision,
we
have
essentially
three
metrics
that
the
community
energy
plan
is
aimed
at
covering
both
energy
and
resiliency,
so
three
metrics
under
tier
one
and
five
metrics
under
tier
two
next
slide
and
terms
of
implementation.
A
The
hyperlinx
felony
standard
was
approved
by
council
in
april
of
this
year.
At
this
point,
we're
starting
to
identify
the
high
performance
development
standard
through
the
pre-consultation
application
process.
In
june
of
this
year,
as
councilor
moffett
mentioned,
we're
bringing
forward
a
report
to
amend
the
site
plan
control
by-law
to
enable
the
high-performance
development
standard.
A
This
is
not
functionally
changing
anything
that
was
approved
back
in
april.
It's
just
to
make
the
necessary
administrative
and
legal
changes
to
the
bylaw
to
enable
the
standard,
and
then
hopefully,
sometime
later
this
year,
we'll
get
a
provincial
approval
of
the
new
official
plan,
which
will
enable
the
high
performance
development
standard
to
come
into
effect.
A
A
On
june
1st
of
2023
and
that's
to
help
us
through
work
through
some
process
pieces
associated
with
the
review
of
the
energy
modeling
reports,
and
so
as
of
june
1st
2023
energy
modeling
targets
become
mandatory,
and
there
is
an
additional
motion
brought
forward
at
council
which
will
bring
the
high
performance
development
standard,
be
required
for
plan
of
subdivision
revisions
and
extensions
coming
in
after
that
date,
and
then
we're
proposing
in
2025
to
review
and
make
an
update
to
the
overall
high
performance
general
standard
next
slide.
A
Oh,
I
think
you're
gonna
have
to
just
click
through
here,
there's
a
bit
of
an
animation
here,
so
at
a
high
level,
we're
working
through
the
implementation
plan
and
steps.
At
this
time
we
will
be
reviewing
and
reporting
back
on
incentive
options
in
2023
or
potential
incentive
options
in
2023.
A
we'll
be
updating
the
green
building
policy
in
2023.
We
will
be
working
with
the
province
to
try
and
advance
ontario
building
code
to
help
it
align
with
the
targets
that
we
have
set
as
a
municipality.
A
A
We
will
be
working
on
ongoing,
monitor,
monitoring
and
reporting
through
the
climate
change
master
plan,
updates
and
we'll
be
updating
the
standard
every
four
years,
and
that's
it
for
me,
so
I
can
open
it
up
for
questions.
Thank
you
for
letting
me
have
the
time
to
come
and
visit
you
today.
E
Thanks
for
your
presentation,
it
was
very
informative.
Just
a
few
comments
with
the
identified
hold
on.
I
have
to
go
back
in
my
notes.
E
You
spoke
about
tier
three,
but
you
didn't
define
what
it
was.
Second
thing,
you
spoke
to
the
standard
fitting
somewhere
in
between
sort
of
bylaws
and
guidelines.
Guidelines
in
my
experience
are
already
sort
of
vague
in
their
application.
So
I'm
just
wondering
on
a
high
level.
Is
this
gonna
sort
of
add
additional
vagueness?
I
guess
when
you
mentioned
the
tree
canopy
as
a
tier
one,
I
think
target
you
mentioned
soil
volume.
E
I
think
as
the
only
metric
there's
other
really
significant
things
about
establishing
a
tree
canopy,
including
maintenance
and
year-round
protection,
especially
new
trees
planted,
say
on
streetscapes,
are
really
prone
to
being
damaged.
E
The
current
requirement
is
one
year
of
maintenance
by
by
contractors
and
then
they're
taken
over
by
the
city,
but
it's
it's.
It's
super
super
important
to
have
a
healthy
canopy
and
in
order
to
let
it
establish,
you
have
to
have
those
things
in
place
and
I'm
not
sure
if,
if
there's
dollars
being
allocated
for
that
in
tier
one,
you
mentioned
tree
planting,
I
think
tree
preservation
is
also
very
important.
E
You
can
build
a
building
in
two
years,
but
you
know
relatively
speaking,
it's
it's
very
high,
so
if
trees
can
be
preserved,
I
think
that's
that's
worth
adding
and
again
looking
at
health
and
maintenance
of
the
trees
that
are
planted
so
that
they
survive
and
do
really
well
and
and
contribute
to
the
forest
or
the
urban
canopy.
Rather.
E
Finally,
sorry
it's
a
lot
of
comments
for
energy
modeling.
I
don't
know
if
you're
talking
about
only
buildings
but
landscape
resilience
is
also
something
that
can
be
measured
and
and
could
be
an
added
benefit.
E
A
You
thanks.
So
there
were
a
couple
of
comments
and
a
couple
of
questions.
You
want
me
to
go
through
your
questions,
yeah,
okay,
so
in
terms
of
tier
three,
so
tier
three,
we
only
have
requirements
under
the
energy
performance
metric
and
that's
setting
the
direction
towards
zero
carbon
buildings
by
2030.
So
that's
essentially
what
tier
three
is
it's
just
setting
that
long-term
goal
and
direction
for
the
energy
performance
metric
in
terms
of
fitting
between
a
bylaw
and
guidelines?
This
isn't
changing
what's
in
guidelines
or
what
guidelines
do.
A
This
is
just
sort
of
to
help
explain
because
we
don't
have
standards,
and
this
is
something
that's
relatively
new
for
the
city.
This
is
just
to
help
explain
sort
of
conceptually
where
the
standard
fits
relative
to
guidelines
which
which
are
much
more
familiar
as
part
of
the
city's
planning
processes.
E
E
A
Yeah,
I
think
it's
just
a
it's.
A
matter
of
level
of
specificity
is
the
main,
the
main
piece
with
respect
to
the
difference
between
the
standard
and
guideline
and
and
having
the
measures
within
it,
be
something
that's
highly
measurable
and
nonetheless
subjective,
so
that
that's
kind
of
the
key
distinction
we're
trying
to
make
with
respect
to
the
tree
canopy
and
soil
volume.
A
So
I
did
only
mention
soil
volumes,
but
I
will
note
there
is
a
component
of
that
metric
that
speaks
to
a
two
year,
warranty
period
for
trees
for
street
trees.
So
there
is
sort
of
efforts
moving
in
on
that
space,
but
I'm
not
the
tree
expert.
So
there
are
other
pieces
related
to
trees
and
the
conservation
of
trees
that
are
being
led
by
other
staff
within
the
city
would
be
better
positioned
to
kind
of
give
the
overall
context.
A
So
the
high
performance
development
standard
is
just
one
of
the
supportive
tools
that
we're
trying
to
to
use
to
address
the
the
treatment
canopy
concerns
and
then
the
last
question.
I
think
you
had
the
energy
modeling,
I'm
not
I'm.
I
guess
I
have
a
question
for
you.
I'm
not
quite
sure
what
you
mean
by
energy,
modeling
and
measuring
landscape
resilience.
Is
that
to
factor
in
the
landscaping
into
the
considerations
of
the
energy
model,
or
is
that
a
separate
process
you're
talking
about.
E
It
could
be
a
separate
process
or
it
could
be
part
of
a
larger
energy
modeling
goal,
where
you
can
measure
specific
things
about
a
landscape
that
could
perhaps,
if
it
was
part
of
the
overall
energy
modeling
or
the
overall
target
it
might,
it
might
sort
of
carry
more
weight,
because
trees
like
trees
and
landscape
are
are
are
very
often
seen
as
sort
of
an
afterthought
and
just
to
make
it
pretty,
but
they
do
have
a
crucial
impact
on
on
urban
health
and
and
people's
health.
E
So
that
is,
is
completely
in
line
with
with
city
targets.
So
it
might
be
good
to
sort
of
give
it
a
little
more
teeth.
A
Sure
I
can,
I
can
certainly
look
into
that
with
respect
to
what
the
patients
are
or
options
are
for
embedding
landscape
considerations
into
energy
modeling
requirements.
It's
not
something
we've
specifically
factored
in
to
date,
but
it
could
be
part
of
future
updates.
So
I'll,
look
into
that.
D
Hi
rebecca,
thank
you
so
much
for
that
presentation.
It's
very
thorough
and
I
think
we've
it's
come
up
a
number
of
times
at
this
committee.
Where
are
ottawa's
green
standards.
When
are
we
going
to
see
something
and
scott
has
always,
and
so
it's
great
to
see
the
kind
of
the
beginnings
of
the
implementation?
I
guess
I
have
a
kind
of
a
you
know.
A
number
of
questions.
First
toronto
right
now,
as
you
know,
is
in
v3
of
tgs
they're
this
year.
D
Actually,
if
not
already
v4
is
in
place,
so
they've
they've
gone
through
a
number
of
iterations
and
I'm
wondering
just
you
know
you
haven't
shared
any
metrics
with
us
about
what
are
the
some
of
the
key
kind
of
targets
that
and
you
know
be
good
to
if
you
could
share
that,
but
just
overall,
where
would
you
where?
Would
you
compare
in
terms
of
performance
standards,
the
proposed
auto
queen
building
standards
or
the
high
performance
development
standards
relative
to
the
various
versions
of
the
of
the
tgs?
A
May
of
this
year,
where
they
transitioned
from
version
three
to
version
four,
so
we're
largely
in
line
with
version
three.
So
it
is
through
one
version
behind
where
they
are,
with
the
notable
exception
of
the
energy
performance
metric.
So
our
energy
performance
metric
we
aligned
with
their
version
four
with
adjustments
for
auto
assignments,
and
we
we
produced
those
sort
of
line-by-line
comparison
for
council.
A
Distributed
as
a
memo,
so
I
believe
that's
part
of
the
public
content
and
is
something
that
could
be
pretty
easily
shared
with
you.
D
It
would
be
great
if
we
could
receive
the
kind
of
I
was
going
to
say.
You
know
this
is
a
great
high
level
review.
I
I
personally
have
a
bit
more
interest
in
just
kind
of
looking
into
a
little
bit
further,
so
be
great
if
they
have
additional
information
that
perhaps
you
can
provide
it
to
eric
and
he
can
circulate
it
to
other
members
of
the
community.
I
see
a
lot
of
nods
here,
so
hopefully
we
can
kind
of
take
another
look
at
this.
D
A
Yeah,
so
projects
that
are
building
permit
only
won't
be
subject
to
our
planning
approval
process.
So
therefore,
we
can't
subject
them
to
things
that
we're
embedding
that
we're
requiring
through
the
planning
act,
so
those
projects
are
only
subject
to
the
building
code.
So
it's
really
a
question
of
our
authority
and
and
the
authorities
that
we
use
for
the
green
building
for
the
high
performance
development
standards.
So
that's
why
they
don't
apply
so
they'll
just
go
through
the
building
permit
process,
as
as
normal.
D
D
A
D
So,
by
by
current
standards,
that
means
that
it's
it's
so
single-family
homes
semi-detached
will
not
apply.
This
does
not
apply
to
them.
D
A
So
yeah,
it's
whatever
is
in
the
site
planning
control
by
live
there
I'm
hesitating
a
little
bit
to
say
exact
numbers,
because
I
think
there
might
be
some
changes
coming
as
a
result
of
bill
109
which
maybe
you
guys
are
getting
other
presentations
on
but
yeah.
So
it's
whatever
is
subject
to
cycling
control.
So
generally
that
would
be
mid-rise
high-rise,
commercial,
yeah.
D
And
just
in
terms
of
incentives
and
offsets,
is
the
city
like
what
is
the
I
mean?
What
about
projects
that
exceed
far
exceed
this
and
really
have
ambitious
goals
and
are
really,
but
I
mean
to
do
that
they
are,
you
know,
are
there
incentives
that
are
offered?
Are
there
ways
that
the
city
is
rewarding
developments
and
designs
that
are
kind
of
going
above
and
beyond
antenna
reaching
really
for
standards
that
you
know
set
the
bar
high.
A
At
this
moment,
there's
no
incentives
available,
but
we're
going
to
be
looking
at
what
options
are
that
we
could
bring
to
the
table
and
be
reporting
back
on
that
in
2023.
So
hopefully
we'll
have
some
something
to
to
speak
to
that
kind
of
next
year
and
and
so
in
terms.
D
Of
alignment-
let's
say:
okay,
so
no
incentive
in
terms
of
alignment
of
this
of
the
of
these
high
performance
standards
with
zoning,
bylaws
you're,
saying
that's
kind
of
you're
going
through
the
current
process
of
of
kind
of
aligning
like,
for
example,
I'm
thinking
parking.
You
know
like.
I
know
that
in
toronto,
there's
a
that's
a
big
issue
for
a
lot
of
projects
where,
with
you
know,
certainly
projects
that
are
moving
to
v4
they've
had
to
go
back
and
recalculate
a
lot
of
these.
D
And
so,
but
that's
because
there's
there
is,
you
know
the
the
standards
are
perfectly
aligned
with
zoning
bylaws.
So
it's
the
same
in
ottawa
or
is
there?
Are
there
still
kind
of
gaps?
Let's
say
where
you
might
meet
one
standard
or
might
meet
this
bylaw,
but
not
meet
the
standard
and
then
submit
an
excuse
or
a
justification
and
kind
of
slips
through
the
crack
so
to
speak.
A
So
how
we
address
that
is
where
there's
overlap
between
the
standard
and
the
zoning
bylaw.
We
reference
to
the
zoning
by
law,
so
the
zoning
bylaw
is
what
would
be
the
sort
of
ruling
authority
on
that.
So
as
an
example,
the
high
performance
felony
standard
metric
related
to
electric
vehicle
charging
infrastructure
it
doesn't
set
out
at
the
moment
it
doesn't
set
a
specific
number
of
ev
charging
or
uv
ready
or
any
of
those
kinds
of
things.
A
It
asks
for
the
applicant
to
report
on
how
many
on
what
they're
proposing
related
to
electric
vehicle
charging
and
and
then
it
also
references
and
must
meet
whatever's
in
the
zoning
bylaw.
So
at
the
moment
we
don't
have
anything
in
our
zoning
violet,
but
that's
something
we'll
be
looking
at
as
part
of
the
zoning
bylaw
update,
that's
coming
out
of
the
sort
of
resulting
from
the
new
official
plan.
D
A
I
will
have
to
confirm
with
my
colleagues
on
that
I'm
not
100
sure
on
the
timeline.
Sorry
right.
D
D
Of
remember
trying
to
recall
your
initial
timeline
where
by
2030
you're
aiming
for
net
zero,
and
you
know
if
again,
if
we're
waiting
until
2023
to
start
the
implementation,
it's
kind
of
it's.
Obviously
it's
an
ambitious
goal,
it's
kind
of,
but
you
know,
as
and
claude
was
saying
we
there's.
D
A
lot
of
these
standards
need
a
lot
of
teeth
to
really
start
to
kind
of
engage
with
with
growth
in
the
city
and
make
sure
that
there's
there's
you
minimize,
you
know
those
ambiguities
and
these
kind
of
vagueness
that
really
allows
some
some
some
metrics
to
kind
of
slip
by
while
others
kind
of
get
scrutinized,
or
at
least
certain
types
of
project
might
have
you
know
certain
metrics
applied
to
them
and
others
that
might
be
more
impactful
to
the
environment
might
be
able
to
slip
by.
D
D
Are
there
categories
of
building
types
or
are
you
you
mentioned
that
this
applies
to
all
projects?
I
assume
you're,
meaning
that
development
standard,
but
there
are
categories
within
these
high
performance
standards
for
different
building
types,
meaning
you
know,
you're
looking
at
low
rise
residential
differently
than
you're
looking
at
office
buildings
different
than
you're.
Looking
at
high-density
developments.
A
So
we
tried
to
be
as
consistent
as
we
could,
but
where
it
makes
sense
to
have
a
different
target
for
one
occupancy
type
or
one
building
type
versus
another.
We
do
have
some
variation,
so
the
easy
example
for
that
is
the
energy
performance
metric,
which
lays
out
as
one
of
the
pathways
energy
into
energy
and
thermal
energy
and
ghg
emission
intensity
targets,
and
those
vary
based
on
residential,
commercial
and
retail.
A
So
that's
an
example
where
we
do
have
some
some
differences,
but
other
examples,
but
other
places
we
tried
to
be
as
consistent
as
we
could.
So.
For
example,
we
have
a
sustainable
roof
metric
that
doesn't
really
vary
based
on
occupancy
type.
There
is
some
variability
based
on
size
of
roof
and
type
of
roof,
but
not
on
occupancy
type.
So.
D
And
I
know
like
if
you're
familiar
with
the
tgs,
which
unfortunately
that's
only
one
I
can
quote-
because
that's
the
only
one
I'm
quite
familiar
with,
but
the
they
have
four
categories
of
building
types
or
project
types
that
for
at
least
in
d3.
They
might
have
increased
in
b4.
But
is
there
a
reason
why
ottawa
decided
to
kind
of
lump
all
the
different
building
types
under
one
one
umbrella,
with
these
minor
kind
of
adjustments.
A
So
I
think
I'd
have
to
look
at
what
you're,
referring
to
specifically
for
for
the
toronto
example,
because
my
understanding
is
toronto
has
two
ver:
they
have
two
versions:
they
have
multi-unit
residential
under
four
stories
and
everything
else,
and
then
within
everything
else,
they
have
an
energy.
The
energy
performance
metric
breaks
it
out
and
it
breaks
down
the
same
way
that
we've
broken
out
ours
and
then
their
other
metrics
are
consistent,
regardless
of
energy
of
building
type.
A
D
I'll
give
you
an
example,
like
the
you
know,
for
example,
there's
the
kind
of
cladding
or
opaque
to
glazed
cladding
ratio,
for
example.
You
know
to
you
know,
outside
of
the
teddys
and
the
eyes,
and
all
that
which
can
be
achieved
say
it
in
a
high
rise
will
be
achieved
very
easily,
simply
because
the
core
of
the
building
is
always
so
warm
and
well
insulated.
So,
but
as
an
added
measure
to
ensure
kind
of
that,
this
building,
you
know
we're
we're.
D
Seeing
that
there
there's
a
60
40
request
that
glazing
is
no
more
than
40
percent.
Was
you
know
that
that
type
of
metric
really
won't
apply
to
a
low-rise
building
and
they'll?
Have
you
know,
because
they'll
have
a
lot
smaller
of
a
ratio
of
glazing
typically,
and
so
they
they
they'll?
D
Have
you
know
they'll
be
meeting
those
these
kind
of
energy
metrics
in
a
different
way,
but
I
suppose
I,
I
guess
kind
of
additional
kind
of
I
think
toronto
has
three
categories
that
has
the
low
rise
mid
to
high-rise,
residential
and
non-residential,
and
then
they
have
city-owned
city-owned,
standard
or
kind
of
municipal
civic
kind
of
type
project.
So
those
are
the
three
categories.
A
Yeah-
and
so
I
guess,
how
we
kind
of
break
it
out,
is
our
plan
of
subdivision
metrics,
which
our
site
plan,
metrics
and
so
slide
plan
would
be
mostly
mid.
Mid
to
high
race,
residential
and
commercial
and
planet
subdivision
would
be
a
larger
portion
of
your
low
rates,
residential
with
potential
small
amounts
of
commercial,
which
would
also
have
to
go
through
their
site
plans,
control
the
site
plan
process
as
well,
and
then
we
will
be
updating
the
green
building
policy,
which
would
be
the
municipal
arm
of
that
of
the
standard.
D
Well,
thanks
for
this
information
again
it'd
be
great
to
get
some
of
the
if
you
have
slide
decks
or
more
information
on
these,
if
you
can
pass
those
on
to
eric
or
point
us
to
where
to
look
them
up
would
be
very
useful.
I
don't
have,
but
I
appreciate
your
presentation
very
much.
Thank
you.
B
You
thanks.
We,
I
did
just
email
the
the
memo
that
rebecca
mentioned
that
was
sent
to
council
on.
I
think
it
was
april
12th
and
then
also
there
was
as
a
part
of
that
memo.
There
was
four
appendices
and
they've
all
been
attached
that
email
as
well
so
that
was
sent
to
everyone.
That's
here
in
attendance,
corleone.
G
G
Sorry
about
my
english,
I've
been
speaking
french,
the
last
two
weeks,
so
I'm
serving
advance
for
all
the
english
mistake
and
can
make,
but
my
brain
has
to
switch
and
thank
you
mohammed
about
the
question
to
compare
toronto
with
ottawa,
because
I
was
having
the
same
question
to
myself,
because
we
work
with
developers
and
the
standards
for
toronto
are
much
higher
than
the
standards
here
for
taiwan,
and
that
stressed
me
a
little
bit
why
ota
white's
accepting
less
standard
than
toronto.
G
We
are
400
kilometers
away.
Only
one
of
the
question
is
common
area
way:
storage
for
the
the
big
developments
like
a
lot
of
low
rise
b
rise
and
little
houses,
everything
that
goes
inside
when
you're
talking
about
common
area,
weight
storage,
it's
that
connect.
Can
we
connect
those
site
plans
of
what
the
city
is
planning
for
the
waste.
G
G
That
type
of
thing,
another
thing
that
I
would
like
to
to
do
it's
the
charging
vehicle
and,
as
you
know,
I'm
from
monotic
and
now
I'm
going
to
have
each
time
I
cross
line
back,
and
I
see
that
light
train
station
building
up
I'm
more
happy
and
I
wish
I
can
go
everywhere
with
the
train.
So
if
I
have
a
an
electric
car,
can
I
go
to
that
station
and
leave
it
charging
mean
when
I'm
going
to
work
or
going
to
downtown
and
coming
back
and
how
this
is
going
to
be
connected.
G
The
same
way
that
now
we
have
some
rules
to
transform
the
existing
houses
to
charge
a
vehicle
they
need
to
change
the
main
panel
and
how
they
connect.
It's
a
lot
of
rules
and
I
hope
if
we
can
accelerate
the
implementation
of
those
rules
that
should
be
done
in
less
than
a
year,
because,
if
not
the
time,
it's
going
to
arrive
very
quickly
with
2030
and
with
all
the
mess
that
we
are
seeing
now.
First,
a
big
explosion
of
the
market
that
nobody
could
find
a
house,
and
now
the
market
is
completely
dry.
G
So
it's
like.
Okay,
please
give
me
a
standard
line,
so
I
will
arrive
quiet
to
where
I
want
to
arrive
and
to
finish
so,
I
allow
others
to
to
ask
it's
about
the
tree
planting
and
after
the
the
storm
the
windstorm
we
had.
G
G
And
all
the
accidents
that
happened,
I
know
the
new
rules
for
the
wings
and
the
roofs,
but
that
needs
to
be
implemented
now,
not
in
two
years.
I
don't
know
if
you
can,
I
I'm
not
a
very
fanatic
of
the
how
you
implement
it.
I
don't
know
how
you
can
do
it,
but
if
you
have
a
way
to
begin
to
implement
those
type
of
things
now
and
not
to
wait
and
again,
thank
you
for
this.
We
are
all
worried
about.
G
A
A
With
respect
to
the
the
two,
the
first
item
and
the
second
item
that
you
asked
so
the
where
what
is
the
city
doing
with
the
waste
and
communications
around
that
and
what
is
the
city
doing
with
tree
planting
in
response
to
the
storm?
Those
two
things
are
kind
of
outside
of
my
area
of
expertise.
So
those
might
be
things
we'll
have
to
follow
up
on
with
other
other
staff
as
how
we
can
how
we
can
address
those.
G
A
I
know
what
you
mean
and
then
with
respect
to
charging
your
vehicle
at
the
park
and
rides.
So
at
the
moment
we
have
an
electric
vehicle
charging
policy,
so
I
expect
there
will
be
some
charging
stations
at
the
park
and
rides
so
any
anywhere
where
those
are
getting
constructed
and
that
electric
vehicle
charging
policy
is
scheduled
for
an
update
as
well,
but
so
so
there
will
be
some
coming.
A
It
won't
be
every
parking
space
that
there
will
be
some
as
part
of
future
parking
rides
and
current
existing
parking
rates,
some
of
the
existing
ones,
particularly
out
in
the
south
end.
I
know,
have
some
uv
charging
stations
already
as
well,
and
those
are
typically
paid
for
you.
D
Just
I
was
wondering
when
you
talk
about
tier
one,
it's
mandatory
so
therefore
there's
a
lot
of
checks.
C
D
Has
a
cost
element
to
it,
then
there's
really
no
incentive
for
them
to
actually
pursue.
It.
Is
the
city
considering
looking
at
some
of
these,
perhaps
more
important
non.
You
know
volunteer
areas
and
putting
some
incentives
in
place
either
now
or
perhaps
down
the
road.
With
regards
to
you
know
the
the
new
council
and
some
of
their
perhaps
focus
on
green
energy.
C
A
C
Great
thanks
rebecca
thanks
very
much
for
your
presentation.
C
C
When
did
I
hear
you
correctly
in
in
saying
that
that
the
these
development
standards
can
only
be
applied
to
building
projects
that
go
through
the
development
application
process,
and
that's
why
they
are
only
captured,
if
I
can
put
it
that
way
in
this
case,
through
the
site
plan
and
plan
a
subdivision
process
and
all
the
ones
that,
just
as
a
right
go
ahead,
just
get
your
building
permits
and
get
on
with
it.
They
will
not
be
subject
to
this
development
standard.
Did
I
did
I
understand?
C
C
Okay,
so,
which
is
a
little
concerning,
I
guess,
and
which
brings
me
to
my
next
question:
what
in
terms
of
numbers
on
a
percentage
basis?
C
What
are
we
talking
about,
roughly
just
roughly
as
far
as
what
that
capture
might
look
like
in
terms
of
percentage
of
residential
and
and
then
and
I'll,
ask
you
sort
of
in
two
parts,
one
sort
of
pre
bill,
109
and
and
depending
sort
of
post.
If
you
have
to
the
extent
that
you
have
a
sense
of
that.
A
Okay,
well,
I
definitely
don't
have
the
post
of
bill
109
analysis.
We
do
have
some
analysis
that
was
part
of
that
memo
that
councilor
moffat
distributed,
and
I
don't
have
the
exact
numbers
on
like
off
the
top
of
my
head
at
the
moment.
So
I
think
that
would
be
the
best
place
to
go
and
and
look
at
it
and
really
it's
it's
hard
to
say,
because
we
don't
we
don't
like
we're.
We
don't
have
a
crystal
ball
in
terms
of
what
the
proportion
of
you
know.
A
Small
scale
intel
versus
higher
density
will
be,
and
all
of
that
is
likely
going
to
be
changing
as
a
result
of
all
these
changes
from
the
new
official
plan
and
the
updates
of
the
changes
to
the
zoning,
bylaw
and
and
market
shifts,
and
all
these
other
external
factors.
So
we
did
have
some
estimates
to
the
results
of
the
analysis
in
that
memo,
but
we
don't
have
a
crystal
ball
to
really
truly
predict.
It.
C
Yeah,
no,
no,
I
think
it
would
have
to
be,
as
you
say,
there
are
lots
of
changes
coming
up
so,
to
the
extent
that
history
provides
a
guide,
we've
got
a
few
years
of
history
for
something
we
could
look
at,
and
I
guess
to
give
some
indication.
C
I
guess
I
was
not
to
get
onto
another
one
of
the
topics
for
this
meeting,
but
in
reading
through,
I
think
it's
the
the
loan
program
of
council,
which
I
did
in
the
whereas
it
just
there
was
one
line
that
really
struck
me,
which
identifies
that
to
meet
the
energy
evolution.
C
Deep
energy
retrofits
of
98
of
all
residential
buildings
would
be
needed
to
meet
ghd
the
ghg
target
and
98.
That's
a
pretty
high
number.
Now,
that's
a
retrofit
number
of
course,
but
when
I
I
start
to
think
about
well,
if
we're
not
capturing
buildings
as
they're
being
permitted
and
built,
we
already
have
a
huge,
huge
challenge
and
in
terms
of
retrofit
and
if
we
don't
have
any
way
to
get
at
those
those
new
builds.
C
C
That
would
make
the
incentive
the
idea
of
incentives,
which
have
been
discussed,
that
much
more
important
and
or
to
lobby
the
provincial
government
as
to
how
we
can
how
we
can
get
at
that,
and,
and
so
just
a
question
there.
Is
that
something
that
the
city
is
doing
as
far
as
asking
the
talking
to
the
province
about
providing
the
city
with
with
better
tools
through
the
planning
act.
C
B
Approval
of
this
report
at
council
there's
also
the
the
element
that
we're
asking
the
province
to
look
at
the
building
code
right.
So
we
can
only
do
so
much
and
and
for
many
of
the
things
that
have
as
of
right
zoning,
we
need
the
building
code
to
act
on
that.
B
So
we've
asked
for
the
building
code
to
be
looked
at
from
a
climate
mitigation
adaptation
perspective,
to
make
sure
that
some
of
these
goals
that
we're
looking
at
some
of
these
targets
that
we
have
and
and
measures
are
embedded
in
the
in
the
ontario
building
code
as
well,
so
that
we
can
get
to
net
zero
and
and
that's
a
big
part
of
it.
So
we
do
expect
there
will
be
some
changes
to
building
code
in
the
coming
years.
I'm
not
sure
how
far
they'll
go,
but
we
do.
B
We
do
know
they're
coming,
but
but
it'll
be
a
further
conversation.
Obviously
with
the
province.
C
Yeah,
no,
that
that's
great
and
I
I
can
only
imagine
I
think,
as
you
sort
of
alluded,
how
how
far
that
may
go,
but
also
how
long
that
will
take
and
given
we're
talking
about
2030.
again,
it
probably
underlines
the
need
to
really
seriously
look
at
incentives
and
how
we
can
communication
strategies
to
homeowners
about
about
who
are,
you
know,
getting
ready
to
build
or
are
smaller
infill
developers
that
sort
of
thing,
but
certainly
providing
incentives,
becomes
all
that
much
more
important.
I
would
think.
B
When
you
see
that
with
the
better
homes
loan
program
as
to
when
you
incentivize
just
how
popular
program
becomes,
because
we've
had
to
go
back
and
and
sure
that
that
program
up
and
actually
provide
more
because
it's
so
popular
you'll
hear
that
from
chance,
I
don't
want
to
steal
justice.
Thunder.
C
Yeah,
no
okay,
that's
great
thanks
very
much.
D
Muhammad,
just
a
brief
clarification
from
rebecca
just
actually
this,
it's
kind
of
a
question
that
I
have
based
on
tom
and
tom
and
carolyn's
questions
about
implementation
or
incentivization
of
tier
two.
So
right
now
it's
an
optional
tier,
but
you
have
a
chart
talking
about
that
over
time
that
you
know
you
know,
there's
a
there's,
a
timeline
to
adopting
higher
standards
within
the
current
version.
So
right
now
it's
optional,
but
by
2023
or
2024.
A
D
D
But
the
intent
is
that
you
know
this
is
not
a
static
standard.
You
you
have
these
tiers
and,
at
some
point,
nobody's
gonna
be
looking
at
tier
one
anymore.
It's
now
tier
two
or
better
by
and
then
after
that,
it's
tier
three
or
better.
You
can
rename
them
as,
but
the
idea
is
that
it's
a
growing
evolving
standard
and
it's
becoming
more
and
more
high
performance
as
time
goes.
B
Okay,
thank
you
for
that
and
appreciate
your
work
on
this
file,
obviously
rebecca-
and
I
know
that
I
appreciate
your
time
tonight
to
come
out
here.
I
know
you
worked
hard
on
this
one
leading
up
to
environment
committee
and
council
there's
a
lot
going
on
and
I
know
there's
a
lot
a
lot
of
back
and
forth
too
between
committee
and
council
so
appreciate
your
work
on
that
and
and
taking
the
time
to
come
here
and
update
our
committee
tonight.
A
Yeah,
thank
you
and
thank
everybody
for
your
interest.
B
Thank
you.
So
can
I
ask
that
the
plan
advisor
community
receive
the
update
for
information
is
received?
Thank
you
so
much.
We
move
on
now
to
the
better
buildings
ottawa
strategy.
B
F
Yes,
thank
you
so
much
nice
just
nice
to
meet
you
all.
I
think
eric
you've
got
my
slides
right
here.
They
come
so
I'll
start
with
the
better
buildings
program,
the
other
buildings.
This
is
for
commercial
in
industrial
and
large,
residential,
so
apartments
and
condos,
that's
the
segment
that
we're
talking
about
first
and
then
the
next
step
for
the
next
presentation
will
be
about
smaller
residential.
F
So
anything,
that's
three
stories
or
less
and
I'll
speak
about
the
better,
build
the
better
homes
ottawa
program
that
you
heard
a
little
bit
about
there
from
rebecca.
So,
first
on
the
better
building
side,
the
larger
buildings
have
the
council
approved
sorry,
so
you
can
switch
ahead
to
the
next
slide.
Please
thank
you.
F
So
we'll
talk
about
the
better
building
strategy
that
was
approved
by
council
in
october,
I'm
going
to
give
you
an
in
some
insight
as
well
into
the
benchmarking
and
auditing
program,
which
is
the
first
part
of
implementation
of
that
strategy
and
then
how
folks
are
getting
involved
and
why
they
are
participating.
F
We
did
a
presentation
actually
just
earlier
today
at
lunchtime
on
this
same
topic,
so
I'm
using
a
similar
slide
deck
that
was
that
was
used
for
the
for
the
intended
participants
of
the
program
go
ahead
eric
so
the
strategies
that
the
better
buildings
ottawa
strategy
outlines,
how
we're
going
to
make
all
of
our
buildings
in
ottawa,
all
of
our
large
commercial
and
multi-unit
residential
buildings,
net
zero
by
2050,
in
line
with
councils,
greenhouse
gas
reduction
targets,
and
we
have
a
very
strict,
a
very
ambitious
set
of
targets
between
now
and
then,
including
retrofitting,
effectively.
F
All
buildings
that
are
that
are
currently
that
currently
exist,
because
the
many
of
most
of
those
buildings
will
continue
to
exist
beyond
2050.
So
we
need
to
touch
almost
every
building
to
make
it
much
more
energy
efficient
and
change
its
heating
source
away
from
natural
gas.
So
how
are
we
going
to
do
that?
The
strategy
aims
to
answer
that
question.
F
It
focuses
on
the
private
sector
buildings,
not
the
public
sector,
including
so
that
we
we're
trusting
that
the
senior
levels
of
government,
the
province
and
the
federal
government
will
be
upgrading
their
buildings
at
the
schedule.
In
line
with
the
city
of
ottawa's
targets,
because
our
targets
are
effectively
aligned
and
the
municipal
buildings
are
dealt
with
under
another
strategy,
the
municipal
building
retrofit
strategy,
so
they're
not
the
focus
of
this
particular
strategy,
but
be,
but
do
do
understand
that
they
are
going
ahead
on
a
parallel
track.
Just
not
under
my
purview.
F
F
F
We
need
to
touch
every
sector
of
our
economy
in
order
to
do
that,
you
can
see
where,
although
we're
targeting
100
by
2050,
I
do
like
to
remind
folks
that
it's
96
by
2040.,
so
it's
almost
a
net
zero
target
by
2040,
and
so
we
really
need
to
keep
that
in
mind
that
we
really
only
have
about
17
years
between
now
and
then
okay
go
ahead
next
slide.
F
In
order
for
how
we're
going
to
reach
that
target
with
the
energy
evolution
strategy
came
up
with
a
a
map
of
a
carbon
budget
effectively
of
where
we
can
achieve
those
emissions
reductions.
F
So
we
call
this
our
wedge
diagram
and
it
identifies
it,
identifies
39,
different
actions
that
fit
into
these
five
different
categories
for
emissions
reductions,
and
you
can
see
that
existing
buildings
make
up
about
30
percent
of
the
reductions
that
we
need
to
achieve
between
now
and
2050,
so
that
large,
green,
wedge
or
kind
of
turquoise
wedge
there
is.
Where
is
what
we're
talking
about
today?
F
It
also
includes
residential
buildings,
so
so
the
two
presentations
I'll
be
giving
are
are
what
make
up
that
that
green
wedge
there,
that
that
achieves
30
percent
of
our
reductions
go
ahead.
Please
so,
right
now,
emissions
are
coming
predominantly
from
natural
gas,
both
on
the
residential
and
the
commercial
side.
You
can
see
that
on
the
left,
the
blue,
the
large
segment
of
blue
in
each
of
those
bar
graphs,
represents
the
natural
gas,
the
emissions
from
natural
gas
in
our
in
our
building
sector.
F
So
again,
the
same
story
is
carries
over
from
the
commercial
to
the
residential
side.
Natural
gas
is
the
main
source
of
emissions
on
the
right.
We
can
see
that
the
end
use
of
that
gas
is
predominantly
for
space
heating.
That's
the
green
bar
in
these
two
graphs,
so
space
heating,
it's
like
ottawa,
has
a
cold
climate.
We
heat
with
natural
gas.
F
We
also
especially
on
the
residential
side,
do
consume
a
fair
bit
of
natural
gas
or
emissions
associated
with
water
heating.
So
that's
another
another
component
for
the
residential
side
of
the
story,
especially,
but
on
the
commercial
side.
It's
it's
really.
A
space
heating
conversation
go
ahead
next
slide,
please!
F
So
the
better
buildings
ottawa
strategy
broke
down
our
steps
into
five
components:
the
first
one
being
benchmarking
and
auditing,
and
I'm
going
to
be
speaking
most
specifically
about
that
today,
because
that's
what
that's
the
program
that
we've
launched.
However,
the
next
steps
are
equally
as
important
marketing,
education
and
training.
So
that's
building
both
the
demand
side
by
educating
the
building
owners
and
the
supply
side
by
increasing
the
supply
of
skilled
labor
and
making
sure
that
those
pieces
are
locked
step
with
one.
Another
number
three
here
on
the
list
is
economic
tools
and
coordination.
F
Now,
there's
a
lot
that
falls
under
that.
The
two
pieces
that
we
specifically
pulled
out
in
the
strategy
under
economic
tools
are
a
financing
program
similar
to
the
better
homes
financing
program
that
or
loan
program
that
I'll
speak
about
in
a
minute.
We're
in
the
process
of
developing
something
similar
for
the
commercial
sector,
sometimes
called
a
commercial
pace,
program
or
yeah
commercial
financing
program
where
that
loan
is
staying
is
attached
to
the
property.
F
So
we're
working
on
that
component
right
now
and
hoping
to
to
launch
something
next
year
and
another
component
that
was
included
in
the
strategy
under
the
economic
tools
piece
is,
is
looking
at
a
community
improvement
plan
which
is
a
which
is
the
mechanism
by
which
the
city
can
offer
incentives
or
grants
to
building
owners
for
achieving
certain
desirable
outcomes.
So
you
likely
know
we
use
this
right
now
for
brownfield
development.
F
We
encourage
brownfield
redevelopment
through
providing
tax
incentives
back
to
the
building
or
back
to
the
property
owners,
we're
looking
at
how
and
if
we
could
use
that
same
tool
for
for
residential
or
for
commercial
retrofits,
and
we
have
a
consultant
right
now,
who's
doing
some
work
with
us
on
on
mapping
that
out.
F
So
that's
kind
of
number
three
and
I
will
mention
one
other
thing:
we've
identified
the
funding
source
for
number
three
we're
hoping
to
tap
into
some
of
the
canada
infrastructure
bank
funds,
which
are
quite
attractive,
they're,
offering
quite
attractive
rates
for
deeper
energy
reductions,
so
we'll
hope,
we're
hoping
that
that
will
offer
both
the
incentive
to
to
go
deeper,
as
well
as
as
well
as
the
capital
needed
to
to
achieve
that
financing
mechanism.
F
Number
four:
is
regulation
regulating
and
disclosure
energy
audits
and
emissions
performance,
so
you
might
be
aware
that
some
leading
jurisdictions
like
vancouver
new
york
city,
notably
toronto,
has
talked
about
it
they're
in
the
process
of
this
as
well.
These
jurisdictions
are
all
regulating
emissions
or
energy
performance
at
the
building
level,
so
new
york
city
came
out
with
this
first
and
and
sort
of
paved
the
way
for
how
the
municipality
could
require
higher
performance
of
energy
standards
within
existing
buildings.
It
hasn't
been
done
before
in
ontario.
F
Toronto
has
signaled
that
they're
going
that
direction.
Our
building
strategy
also
signaled
that
we're
going
that
direction
and
we're
working
with
legal
right
now
to
design
what
that
would
look
like.
We
suspect
it
would
start
with
a
requirement
for
energy
for
benchmarking
and
disclosure,
basically
giving
a
an
energy
label
to
every
building
based
on
their
utility
consumption
and
requiring
building
owners
to
to
provide
that
utility
consumption.
F
We
could
also
include
energy
audits.
You
know
regular
energy
audits.
Perhaps
every
five
years
is
what
was
is
what
was
contemplated
in
the
strategy
so
requiring
building
owners
to
to
have
a
professional
look
at
their
building
every
five
years
and
give
recommendations
for
how
to
improve
it.
But
the
ultimate
is
really
the
emissions
performance
or
energy
performance
requirements
and,
like
I
said,
that's
that's
what
leading
jurisdictions
jurisdictions
are
doing
and
what
ottawa
is
considering
alongside
toronto
and
then
kind
of
parallel
to
all
of
the
above
is
engaging
senior
levels
of
government.
F
So,
of
course
it
what
the
municipality
does
really
is
dependent
on
what
other
levels
of
government
do,
especially
the
province.
If
the
province
does
these
things
the
municipality
doesn't
have
to.
If
they
don't
do
them,
then
the
municipality
has
to
step
up
and
do
them.
If
the
federal
government
puts
some
funding
into
the
marketplace,
perhaps
it
will
cost
us
the
municipality,
less
and,
and
vice
versa.
F
So
so
there's
a
lot
of
different
coordination
that
happens
and
and
therefore
conversations
that
happen
between
different
levels
of
government
to
kind
of
support
one
another
with
the
with
the
objectives
that
we're
all
you
know
leveraging
each
of
our
of
our
respective
expertise
and
authorities
in
our
in
our
in
our
jurisdictions
go
ahead,
eric,
okay,
so
looking
specifically
at
the
benchmarking
and
auditing
program,
that's
that's
just
launched,
so
we're
looking
we're
asking
buildings
to
disclose
their
energy
and
water
consumption
for
the
years
of
2019
up
until
2021.
F
The
reason
we're
asking
for
that
range
of
three
years,
as
the
first
sort
of
request
is
because
we
want
to
see
pre
and
post
covet
impacts,
because
there
was
a
big
impact
on
the
energy
consumption
in
buildings
and
we'd
really
like
to
sort
of
catch
that
difference,
especially
in
the
commercial
space
where
there
was
a
significant
change,
go
ahead.
F
What
we're
using
to
do
that
benchmarking
and
auditing,
so
we're
supporting
building
owners
to
identify
opportunities
to
reduce
the
greenhouse
gas
and
energy
consumption
energy
consumption
through
through
that
utility
data
that
they'll
be
sharing
with
us
by
doing
some
comparisons
between
buildings,
and
we
have
a
we're
working
with
a
consultant
that
does
this
across
the
country
and
pulls
from
a
national
database.
F
We
can
give
fairly
accurate
what
we
call
energy
insights
reports
based
on
what
we
know
about
the
building,
its
square
footage,
its
usage
type,
its
age,
as
well
as
its
utility
data.
We
can
say
kind
of
where
it
ranks
with
regards
to
its
colleagues
or
its
other.
You
know
peer
buildings
and
what
types
of
measures
might
be
recommended
for
that
building,
based
on
its
current
energy
consumption.
F
This
is
a
voluntary
program.
It's
owner
initiated
right
now
we
are
hoping
to
make
it
a
requirement
in
the
near
future,
but
for
now
it's
it's
voluntary,
we're
targeting
buildings
over
twenty
thousand
square
feet
now
or
eighteen
hundred
and
fifty
square
meters,
and
it's
not
a
requirement
that
they
be
that
they
be
more
than
twenty
thousand.
We
just
think
that's
where
the
the
biggest
opportunity
lies
and
four
stories
or
greater
is
kind
of
the
target
audience
as
well.
So
it's
not
meant
for
the
smaller
residential.
F
That's
that's
our
separate
program
to
deal
with
them
and
then
we'll
be
disclosing
that
information
or
their
their
overall
scores
publicly,
so
we'll
be
making
that
available
at
the
building
level.
So
you
might
be
aware
that
the
province
has
what
they
call
the
energy
and
water
reporting
benchmarking
and
reporting
program
ewrb,
where
they
focus
on
buildings,
buildings
of
a
hundred
thousand
square
feet,
or
more
and
they're
actually
required
to
benchmark
their
buildings
or
just
or
at
least
disclose
their
energy
and
water
consumption
to
the
province.
F
That
data
is
not
made
public
at
the
building
level.
It's
only
made
public
in
aggregate
so
at
the
sort
of
three-digit
postal
code
level,
and
it
also
only
applies
to
buildings
of
a
hundred
thousand
square
feet
or
more.
F
We
think
a
lot
more
buildings
can
benefit
from
this
information
and
from
this
from
this
process
and
there's
a
lot
more
sort
of
mid-sized
buildings
in
ottawa,
and
so
that's
why
we're
making
this
program
available
to
to
more
to
more
buildings
and
smaller
buildings
and
also
the
province
the
provinces
program
right
now
is
not
there's
no
penalties,
if
you
don't
report,
so
we're
trying
to
do
this,
this
process
to
increase
uptake
of
that
provincial
program
as
well
as
disclosing
publicly
at
the
local
level.
So
the
two
programs
are
aligned.
F
F
This
is
what
the
map
will
look
like.
The
city
of
ottawa
has
already
included
all
of
its
buildings
into
this
map.
So
that's
where
most
of
these
data
points
come
from.
There's
a
data
set
as
well
from
ottawa
community
housing-
I
believe,
that's
included
in
here,
and
so
what
you
can
see
is
this
map
will
ideally
get
many
more
dots
on
it,
but
this
is
kind
of
what
you
see
where
you
can
click
on
any
one
of
those
dots
and
and
get
more
information
about
that
particular
building.
F
You
can
see
how
it
ranks
against
its
peers.
You
can
see
its
total
energy
use
intensity.
You
can
see
you
can
see
some
of
the
square
footage
information,
so
there's
a
little
bit
of
information
available
for
each
building
and
basically
the
high
level
insights
report
is
available,
so
the
data
that's
that's
submitted
to
through
it's
called
the
energy
star
portfolio
manager,
that's
the
dashboard
or
the
the
tool
that
is
used
to
disclose
or
report
the
information
that
collects
data
at
a
monthly,
our
utility
data
at
the
monthly
level.
F
So
it's
got
monthly
gas,
electricity
and
water
consumption
fields
and
that's
what
the
property
owner
would
fill
out
and
yeah,
and
then
you
can
see
how
it's
going
to
be
showing
up
geographically.
This
same
tool
is
used
across
many
jurisdictions
in
in
british
columbia.
They
have
what's
called
benchmark
bc,
which
is
across
the
whole
province
using
the
same
dashboard,
the
same
consultant
software
tool
so
so
we're
trying
to
align
our
system
with
many
other
jurisdictions.
Montreal
is
moving
ahead
with
something
like
this.
F
I've
understood
that
edmonton
is
looking
at
something
similar.
Perhaps
I
think
calgary
as
well.
Toronto
is
considering
it
and
there
was
a
national
or
there
is
still
a
national
version
of
this
to
sort
of
pilot.
The
concept
through
the
canada,
green
building
council
and
that's
how
we
were
first
made
aware
of
this
of
this
type
of
tool
was
through
the
canada,
green
building.
Council.
F
So
why
would
we
do
another
benchmarking
program
if
the
province
already
has
one
like?
I
said
we're
hoping
to
use
this,
to
increase
compliance
rates
with
the
provincial
program
and
also
to
to,
like,
I
said,
add
that
disclosure
element
at
the
at
the
at
the
local
level
at
the
building
level.
We
think
that's
critical
for
providing
information
for
tenants,
investors
and
stakeholders,
and
we
also
will
use
the
data
to
then
inform
future
elements
of
the
strategy
as
a
whole.
F
Like
I
mentioned,
the
the
financing
programs,
the
education
and
capacity
building
will
be
able
to
provide
support,
targeted
sessions
on
on
various
energy
efficiency
measures
that
we
see
coming
up
again
and
again
through
different
through
the
energy
insights
reports,
so
we'll
be
able
to
provide
that
that
targeted
information
or
information
sessions
and
then
also,
finally,
the
the
regulatory
side
of
things
will
be
able
we'll
be
able
to
use
actual
consumption
data
or
utility
data
to
define
those
thresholds
of
energy
performance
standards
that
we're
contemplating
under
the
regulatory
side
of
the
strategy
go
ahead.
F
Please
next
slide
eric
the
other
kind
of
nifty
thing
that
we're
doing
under
this
program
is
some
thermal
scanning
we're
doing
a
pilot
in
two
neighborhoods
commercial
districts
on
in
centre
town
and
then
out
in
canada.
North
we're
looking
at
office
buildings
in
particular,
and
we're
hiring
we've
hired
a
company
called
key
tech,
qea
tech
to
basically
drive
around
with
a
thermal
camera
on
the
roof
of
their
car.
F
The
way
that
google
would
do,
but
this
case
it's
a
thermal
camera
and
they'll-
do
this
overnight,
at
probably
three
or
four
in
the
morning,
when
there's
no
people
on
the
street,
but
also
when
the
the
difference
between
the
outside
temperature
and
the
inside
temperature
is
at
its
greatest
and
there's
no
sunshine
to
to
affect
the
the
pictures
we'll
be
doing
this
probably
in
november.
So
there's
lots
of
time
still
for
informing
the
building
owners.
They'll
also
be
providing
an
aerial
image.
F
Doing
this
taking
a
picture
from
from
a
drone
to
get
that
that
rooftop
picture
as
well,
and
what
this
will
show
us,
because
we
have
such
a
demand
for
space
heating
and
and
we
need
to
focus
so
much
on
our
building
envelopes
by
to
reduce
that
space
heating
demand,
as
we
saw
in
those
those
first
couple
of
bar
graphs,
we
in
ottawa
really
want
to
focus
our
efforts
on
improving
the
envelopes.
F
It's
something
that
the
industry
is
not
doing
well
enough,
yet
in
fact
not
hardly
at
all,
and
so
we
really
need
to
increase
our
level
of
awareness
and
our
focus
around.
How
do
we
improve
our
building
envelopes
and
what
benefit
can
we
get?
So
what
you
can
see
here
is
kind
of
interesting,
because
the
building
owner
will
not
only
see
where
they're
losing
energy
but
where
they
might
also
have
water
penetration
issues
or
some
structural
issues
that
might
trigger
them
doing
some
more
work
on
their
building,
facade
or
cladding,
and
for
other
reasons.
F
So
we
want
to
sort
of
bring
those
two
conversations
together
to
say,
while
you're
doing
that
structural
work
or
that
cladding
work.
Think
about
also
how
to
improve
your
your
insulation
value
and
keep
that
heat
in,
because
often
these
things
are
combined
right
if
you're
losing
heat
you're,
usually
you've
usually
got
an
egress
or
an
ingress
opportunity
for
water,
and
things
like
that
too.
F
So
we'll
be
doing
this
in
the
fall,
we'll
also
for
the
buildings
that
are
in
those
catchment
areas,
we'll
be
providing
them
with
an
insights
report
as
well
with
focusing
specifically
on
the
building
envelope.
So
where
can
they?
What?
Where?
Where
does
it
make
sense
for
them
to
focus
on
attention
right
so
on
this
building?
You
can
really
see.
There's
you
know
an
opportunity
on
that
top
level.
F
There's
there's
some
problems
at
that
that
joint
between
the
top,
you
know
the
top
level
in
the
roof,
so
so
that,
for
example,
would
be
pulled
out
in
the
insights
report.
F
We
also
are
testing
the
concept
of
how
much
does
a
picture
capture
a
thousand
words
right,
so
we're
looking
to
test
that
out
as
well,
so
yeah
this
pilot
will
be
happening
in
the
fall
if
it
works
well,
we
might
consider
doing
more
areas
of
the
city
and
one
other
thing
I'll
say
on
this:
is
we've
used
the
same
company?
The
city
of
ottawa
has
hired
this
company
to
do
a
more
in-depth
scan
of
many
of
its
buildings.
F
I
think
about
20
buildings
to
date,
using
they
put
a
thermal
scan
camera
on
a
drone
and
go
up
and
down
and
around
the
building,
using
a
very
detailed
3d
image,
and
that
has
allowed
the
city
of
ottawa
to
do
some
deep
energy
retrofit
work
at
some
of
its
own
buildings.
F
So
we
found
this
information
to
be
quite
useful
for
the
city,
which
is
why
we
wanted
to
extend
the
opportunity
to
to
other
participants
or
other
building
owners
and
further
the
company
offering
this
will
be
offering
a
discount
for
that
deeper
audit
to
any
participants
in
our
program.
So
that's
another
kind
of
hook
for
why
participate
in
the
benchmarking
program.
F
Go
ahead
eric
to
the
next
one
okay,
so
this
is
more
for
building
owners
I'll,
probably
skip
over
this.
You
guys
don't
really
care
about
how
to
sign
up.
But
if
you
do
want
to
check
out
the
program
you
can,
you
can
see
energy
benchmarking
at
the
ottawa
city
of
ottawa
website
go
ahead
eric
to
the
next
one.
I
think
we've
just
got
yeah
our
better
buildings
at
ottawa.ca.
F
If
you
have
questions
about
this
particular
program
myself
and
my
colleague
aaron
thornell
are
working
on
this
program
and
will
be
responding
to
emails
from
that
email
address
the
the
phone
number.
There
is
aaron's
extension,
but
but
I'm
happy
to
provide
you
with
mine
too.
If
you
have
specific
questions.
B
Janice
in
that,
in
that
one
slide,
you
had
to
flick
the
the
city
of
ottawa
buildings
on
your
map,
I'm
in
the
dot
at
the
very
bottom
of
that
right
now,
oh
right
on,
I'm
not
sure
how
well
it
performs
it
was
built
in
1976.
So,
okay,
carolyn
mckenzie.
C
Great
thanks,
janice
thanks
very
much
for
that
presentation.
I
hadn't
seen
any
of
that
before.
So
it's
an
area
that
I
I
don't
normally
think
about
big
commercial
buildings
that
much,
but
so
just
I'll,
ask
us
sort
of
a
similar
question.
When
I
asked
the
last
presentation
just
given
the
the
applicability
of
this
program,
you
had
you
had
numbers
up
about
this.
I
think
this
total
square
footage
that
it
that
it
applied
to
in
terms
of
the
building
size.
What
what
roughly?
C
What
sort
of
percentage
are?
We
are
we
talking
about
in
terms
of
you,
know,
relevance
to
to
buildings
for
ottawa.
C
F
Think
there's
about
17
000
buildings
in
that
category
in
ottawa.
Okay,
so
far,
the
province
has
captured
only
about
80
buildings
in
there
for
their
tools.
So
we
think
there's
a
lot
of
improvement
to
make
okay
that
have
voluntarily
disclosed
in
the
provincial
system.
So
that's
why
we're
hoping
to
to
bump
that
number
up
now.
Of
course,
the
province's
program
only
applies
to
100
000,
so
that
would
only
be
about.
C
C
Okay-
and
you
said
17
000
buildings
in
ottawa
and
out
of
a
I'm,
just
wondering
how
that
threshold
was
determined
and
if
there
was
consideration
for
going.
You
know
what
the
17
000
buildings
would
represent
sounds
like
a
pretty
high
number,
but
I
have
no
idea
how
many
buildings
that
that
represents
in
ottawa
is
that
of
percentage
bases?
What
would
that
look
like,
and
was
there
consideration
for
reducing
that
to
make
it
more
more
generally
applicable,
or
is
that
already.
F
You
know
reducing
it
from
the
20
000
square
feet
yeah.
We
picked
that
number
because
it
was
aligned
with
we've
seen
other
jurisdictions
in
chicago
and
across
the
u.s,
with
similar
programs,
picking
20
to
25
000
square
feet.
Edmonton
as
well
has
a
program,
that's
similar,
and
so
that
was
the
threshold
that
we
that
we
thought
would
be
would
be
of
interest.
F
The
other
reason
is
because
buildings
of
that
size,
typically
just
by
through
the
act
of
benchmarking
and
looking
at
their
utility
data,
they
can
typically
generate
two
to
three
percent
energy
savings.
Just
having
done
that
activity
and
that
usually
the
savings
from
that
that
two
to
three
percent
is
usually
enough
to
pay
for
the
engineers
time
to
go
and
collect
that
utility
data.
So
so
that
was
kind
of
one
of
the
rationales
that
canada,
green
building
council
recommended.
F
C
Yeah,
okay,
great!
Thank
you.
D
Yes,
thank
you
so
much
for
that
presentation
very,
very
engaging
seems
like
a
really
solid
plan.
I
think
I
really
like
how
it's
it's
systematic
and
it's
it.
You
know
it
it's
really
targeting
what
it
can
do
now.
You
know
with
the
you
know,
with
very
realistic
goals
and
very
kind
of
very
careful
look
at
the
break
of
understanding
of
what's
out
there
right
now
in
terms
of
kind
of
building
stock,
and
you
know
really
analyzing
the
contributions.
D
Of
telling
to
look
at
industry,
let's
say
which
we
typically
most
of
the
public
would
typically
associate
with
pollution
and
emissions.
But
when
you
actually
crunch
the
numbers,
certainly
at
least
in
the
scale
of
buildings
that
your
that
your
program
is
looking
at,
you
recognize
very
quickly
that
residential
is,
you
know
the
biggest
culprit,
and
I
I
think,
that's
kind
of
quite
telling
of
you
know
the
the
level
of
catch-up
that
that
we
need
to
do
at
that
level.
D
Now,
just
a
quick
question
for
that
chart
that
you
showed
when
you
looked
at
the
you
know,
the
emissions
or
the
fuel
types
and
emission
based
on
sector
is
that
only
in
your
is
that
like
kind
of
a
global
overview
of
all
residential,
or
is
that
particularly
in
that
20
000
square
foot
up.
F
Graphs
were
from
our
energy
evolution
strategy,
so
they
looked
at
that
was
following
the
building
code
and
how
the
building
code
defines
residential
and
and
commercial.
So
part,
three
part,
nine.
If
that
part
of
the
building
code
means
much.
F
Basically,
it's
like
three
stories
or
less
is
considered
residential
and
four
stories
or
more
would
be
in
that
sort
of
more
commercial
side
of
that
of
that
of
those
bar
graphs,
but
well,
actually
sorry,
no,
the
one
you're
thinking
of
I
apologize
now,
the
one
you're
thinking
of
is
residential
industrial
and
commercial
right,
yeah
right.
F
D
F
I
think
it's
only
about
17
of
units
are
in
are
in
higher
rise
yeah
this
this
one
here.
Thank
you
eric.
D
F
D
So
so
again,
when
we
look
at
this,
so
just
to
understand
like
because
I'm
just
looking
at
this
and
it's
kind
of
shocking
how
high
the
numbers
residential
are,
is
this
kind
of
a
global
kind
of
a
global?
You
know
all
residential,
or
is
this
again
just
twenty
thousand
up
twenty
thousand
square
foot?
No.
F
This
includes
all
residential,
so
this
would
be.
We
have,
I
think,
380,
000
or
so
residential
units
in
ottawa,
of
which
the
majority
are
in
sort
of
detached
or
semi-detached
homes.
Our
homes
below
three
three
three
stories,
but
these
would
this.
What
is
considered
residential
here
would
include
apartment
buildings
and
condos
as
well.
D
So
the
reason
I'm
asking
is
because
again
you
know,
as
far
as
the
impact
that
this
program
has,
if
we
were
to
want
to
target
it,
to
have
the
most
impact
on
these
type
of
reductions
or
what
we're
looking
for
carbon
reductions
right
now.
You
know,
out
of
this
chart,
let's
say
that
the
category
of
building
types
that
are
20
000
square
foot
top.
D
D
Out
of
a
total,
I
guess
what
I'm
trying
to
understand
is
it's
a
great
program
is,
it
is.
Should
we
be
looking
at
a
kind
of
a
parallel
program
that
looks
at
a
smaller
scale
that
perhaps
in
a
city
like
ottawa,
might
actually
reap
more
benefits
in
terms
of
kind
of
you
know,
picking
up
a
lot
of
the
slack
that
you
know.
A
F
Say
the
presentation
that
I
just
gave
is
focusing
on
on
this.
These
particular
ones,
the
commercial
and
in
industrial
and
a
small
segment
of
the
residential
there's
about
about
70
000
units
out
of
380
000
are
in
what
we
call
merbs
multi-unit
res,
so
a
small
portion
of
res.
But
but
then
the
next
presentation,
I'll
give
is
going
to
be
focusing
on
the
rest
of
the
residents.
D
Okay,
all
right,
so
we'll
wait
for
that
to
get
some
more
information
now
I,
the
idea
of
disclosure,
is
kind
of
incredible,
and
I
think
you
know
we've
seen
you
know,
for
example,
when
when
lead
came
out
and
everyone
wanted
that
lead
plaque
on
their
building,
and
I
think
it
was
kind
of
a
great
incentive
for
building
owners
to
go
after
it.
You
know
as
shallow
as
it
may
sound,
it
was
actually
what
they
were
after
they
were
after
that
plaque
and
it's
because
they
wanted
they
wanted
to
attract.
D
You
know
top
top-notch
or
top-level
kind
of
tenants
in
a
similar
way.
This
was
there
is
any
discussion,
I'm
sure
it's
come
up
of
advertising
or
publicly,
so
there
is
going
to
be
a
database
but
to
actually
develop
a
plaque
for
performance
that
has
stuck
to
these
buildings,
and
so
it's
kind
of
you
know
as
a
building
owner
or
as
a
tenant.
D
You
kind
of
have
to
see
this
thing
every
day,
even
for
the
public
walking
up
and
down
the
street
you're
talking
about
generating
a
culture
of
awareness
and
was
that
at
all
kind
of
a
consideration
of
actually
part
of
this
mandatory
benchmarking
is
to
actually
make
the
results
public.
Because
of
this
a
standard
plaque-
and
you
know.
F
We
haven't,
we
haven't
contemplated
a
physical
like
sticker
or
plaque
on
buildings,
but
this
this
benchmarking
database
would
be
available
online
for
everyone
to
see
right.
So
so
in
tenants
or
investors
or
the
public
could
see
particular
buildings.
There
might
be
a
reason
to
make
it
to
make
those
stickers
or
something
you
know
a
bit
visible
from
the
street
and
we'd
have
to
probably
update
them
every
year.
So
it
would
be
a
little
bit.
F
You
know
you'd
always
kind
of
one
step
behind,
but
but
that
might
be
something
that
we
that
we
look
at
doing
now.
D
So
so,
okay
for
myself,
I
would
definitely
support
that.
I
think
it
would
really
kind
of
it
would
create
a
culture
of
awareness
and
it
would
really
put
put
it
out
there,
because
not
everyone
might
be
aware
of
these
databases
and
these
tools-
and
you
know
you'd,
have
to
be
you
know
really
seeking
that
information
for
it
to
access
it.
But
if
we
found
a
way
to
really
make
it
accessible
to
everyone,
everyone
walking
on
the
street,
everyone
walking
in
and
out
of
a
building.
I
think
it'll
have
a
far
greater
impact.
F
On
the
residential
side,
we're
looking
at
incorporating
it
into
the
realtor.ca
website
or
our
dashboard,
so
that
we
think
is
going
to
make
it
really
accessible
for
residential,
but
on
the
commercial
side
the
same
it
doesn't
quite
exist.
You
know,
realtor.ca
isn't
used
as
much
for
commercial
building,
so
so
yeah,
your
your
your
comment
is,
is
well
taken
and
might
be
worth
might
be
worth
doing
as
part
of
our
education
program.
D
Yeah,
okay,
the
now
in
terms
of
tying
into
the
previous
presentation,
is
there?
Is
there
a
way
so
with
this
benchmarking?
How
so
you
know
we
have
the
high
performance
building
standards
that
have
these
metrics
and
buildings
need
to
meet
the
metrics
theoretical
metrics
to
kind
of
gain
sight
plan
approval
and
to
gain
the
ability
to
proceed
with
their
project.
Obviously
we
all
know
things
change
during
construction
and
and
things
change
over
time
with
maintenance
and
how?
How
does
this?
How
does
this
program
as
a
benchmark?
How
does
it
tie?
D
Is
there
a
way,
for
example,
to
penalize
buildings
that
might
have
are
not
reaching
the
targets
that
they
were
meant
to
reach
with
the
high
performance
building
centers?
Are
you?
Are
you
synchronized
with
the
high
performance
building
programs
standards
so
that
you
you?
Can
you
work
together?
So
there
are
number
one,
your
step
two
and
there's
a
feedback
and
and
there's
the
kind
of
really
kind
of
a
really.
You
know
again.
Building
owners
really
need
to
make
sure
that
they're
meeting
the
commitments
that
they've
made
with
their
applications.
F
Yeah
I
mean,
is
it
definitely
rebecca
and
I
definitely
work
close
together
on
our
on
our
work.
There's.
Definitely
a
plan
for
buildings
that
are
through
the
high
performance
development
standard
that,
where
they're
approved
through
that
to
have
them,
show
up
on
this
map
as
a
specific
sort
of
segment
that
you
could.
You
could
identify
to
say
which
ones
have
been
built
under
the
high
performance
requirements
and
then,
in
terms
of
the
regulatory
or
the
penalties
for
follow-up.
F
We
would
include
that
as
part
of
our
like
that
hasn't
been
approved
yet
by
council
and
and
legal
is
still
considering.
What
are
the
city's
authorities
right
when
it
comes
to
building
code
requirements?
That's
not
something
the
city
has
authority
over,
but
but
but
yes,
we
are
looking
at.
How
can
we
tie
that?
That
would
more
be
captured
under
our
own
energy
and
emissions
standards?
Right
that
we're
contemplating
that?
I
that
I
said
part
of
as
part
of
the
strategy
step
four
of
the
strategy,
but
yeah.
D
Because
we
know
like
a
lot
of
the
a
lot
of
the
certification
programs,
as
you
know,
for
buildings-
require
that
monitoring
and
reporting
just
again
to
ensure
that
from
theory
to
practice,
there
is
that
you
know
that,
and
I
suppose
you
know
it
would
be,
that
one
would
think
that
the
standards
you
know
the
city
building
standards,
the
high
performance
standard-
would
fall
under
a
similar
kind
of
requirement
that
there
would
be
there'd,
be
a
need
to
follow
up
and
to
kind
of
demonstrate
through
practice
that
these
buildings
meet
their
design
standards.
D
And
then,
just
finally,
last
again
quite
shocking,
but
not
surprising,
to
kind
of
see
the
you
know,
fossil
fuels
is
obviously
kind
of
the
number
one
kind
of
you
know
carbon
emitting
issue.
I
know
that
you
know
again.
I
always
use
it
as
a
reference
because
it
to
me
was
such
a
bold
kind
of
move
when
the
municipality
of
vancouver
kind
of
banned,
the
use
of
fossil
fuel
appliances
for
new
developments
of
a
certain
scale,
and
and
again
I
think
what
that
did
is
that
it
I
mean
obviously.
D
A
different
climate
they're
able
to
use
air
source
heat
pumps
are
able
to
use
technologies
that
are
better
suited
for
milder
winters.
I'm
just
wondering
if
you
know
what
are
we
gonna
do
about
this?
Like
I
mean
really
it's
one
thing
to
think
about
envelopes,
but
ultimately,
there's
gonna
be
a
certain
limit
to
what
an
envelope
can
do,
and
I
think
we,
you
know
a
lot
of
what
we
need
to
do
is
to
be
looking
at
alternate
sources,
and
that's
really
only
going
to
happen
when
people
start
going
out
to
the
market.
D
To
get
this
stuff
and
again
is.
Is
there
any
is
anything
being
table
to
kind
of
start
to
look
at
certain
scales
of
building
that
are
just
prohibited
from
using
fossil
fuel
appliances
or
that
there's
a
mix?
You
know,
there's
a
kind
of
a
you
know,
a
certain
mix
of
fossil
fuel
to
do
kind
of
electric
appliances
in
new
builds.
F
Yeah,
if
only
it
were
so
easy
mohammed,
we
would
love
that,
but
the
cities
are
not.
Municipalities
are
not
allowed
to
regulate
the
fuel
utilities
or
energy
utilities.
That's
a
provincial
jurisdiction
very
clearly
we're
we're
not
we
don't
have
any
authority
over
enbridge
or
even
really
hyderabad,
even
though
we
own
them,
we
don't
have
authority
over
their
operations.
F
That
said
what
I
mentioned
before
about
the
building
performance
standards
is
where
the
city
has
some
level
of
authority.
Possibly
it's
never
been
used
before,
like
I
said
in
ontario,
but
but
that
would
be
another
way
to
come
about
the
same
thing,
which
is
to
say,
buildings
must
achieve
a
certain
energy
or
emissions
performance
and
how
they
achieve
that
is
up
to
them,
but
but
it
would
be
fairly
clear
that
fossil
fuels
wouldn't
be
a
very
that
wouldn't
be
a
possible
conducive
path
to
compliance
right.
So.
D
H
F
Have
a
city
of
vancouver
charter
city
of
ottawa
doesn't
have
that,
unfortunately,.
D
C
It
was
a
general
question,
more
maybe
broader
question
when
you
were
talking
about
looking
at
the
energy
use
in
a
lot
of,
I
guess,
the
commercial
buildings
that
were
weren't
being
used
at
the
beginning
and
height
or
duration
of
the
pandemic,
and
I'm
wondering
like
I'm
imagining,
there's
a
lot
of
vacancies
still
in
terms
of
like
commercial
spaces,
I
mean,
I
know
the
port
place
portage,
which
is
on
the
other
side
of
the
river.
Like
those
government
buildings,
my
understanding
are
not
going
to
be,
are
not
being
reoccupied
currently
or.
G
C
C
F
G
F
Are
yeah
sure,
yeah
yeah
thanks
for
that
question,
shannon
and
yeah
a
lot
of
buildings,
commercial
buildings,
especially
office
buildings,
in
particular,
of
which
ottawa
has
a
lot
of
our
commercial
space.
The
vast
majority
of
them
are
offices.
Those
are
those
are
under
serious
flux.
Right
now,
we've
seen
some
being
sold
for
condos
or
residential
use,
conversions.
F
That
might
continue.
I
suspect,
but
yeah,
there's
that
this
is
why
it's
kind
of
a
really
key
opportunity
right
now
to
get
in
front
of
them
and
say
as
you're
thinking
about
new
use
patterns
or
upgrades
to
your
building,
to
make
it
to
bring
those
tenants
back
or
shift
to
different
tenant.
You
know
splits
think
about
your
energy
and
your
emissions
as
well.
F
So
what
we've
seen
is
that
the
electricity
consumption
in
office
buildings
has
gone
down
significantly
as
people
are
not
working,
they're,
not
plugging
in
their
laptops
they're,
not
using
the
internet
and,
however,
the
natural
gas
use
has
actually
gone
up
in
a
lot
of
cases,
because
they're
still
heating
these
spaces
and
they're
heating
them
predominantly
to
the
same
temperatures
they
were
before,
but
without
the
without
the
electricity.
F
Heat
from
all
the
all
the
people
and
all
the
computers,
so
so
it's
kind
of
a
sad
story
that
way.
Unfortunately,
they,
the
you
know,
the
the
controls
were
not
in
place
to
reduce
the
consumption
of
heat
in
a
in
a
in
an
effective
way,
but
just
goes
to
show
how
cheap
natural
gas
is
and
how
little
you
know,
even
over
two
or
three
years
of
empty
buildings,
it
was
just
not
a
priority
right,
so
so
yeah.
So
I
think
you're
quite
right.
F
The
city
of
ottawa
is
I'm
sure
in
groups
outside
of
the
climate
change
unit.
Having
lots
of
conversations
about
how
do
we?
How
do
we
work
with
building
owners
to
reoccupy
to
bring
people
back
downtown
to
make
better
use
of
our
space?
I
know
the
feds
are
having
deep
conversations
about
their
space
and
how
they're
going
to
transition
work.
F
I
know
it
affects
our
transportation
team
and
our
transportation
master
plan
is
on
is
basically
on
hold
as
a
result
of
waiting
for
travel
patterns
to
get
back
to
normal
or
some
form
of
normality,
and
so
I
mean
I
would
ask
maybe
councillor
moffat
if
you
want
to
chime
in
on
anything
more
that
that's
the
city,
your
city
as
a
whole
is
looking
at
in
terms
of
land
use
patterns
for
those
some
of
those
empty
buildings.
B
Well,
I
mean
it's:
it's
not
it's
not
an
easy,
an
easy
transition
from
a
commercial
building
to
a
residential
building.
Often
they
don't,
they
don't
have
the
same
requirements,
the
same
building
code
requirements
for
for
housing
and
for
for
residential.
You
know,
bedrooms
require
certain
amount
of
windows
and
how
that
how
those
are
built
and
often
commercial
buildings
in
terms
of
their
shape
they're,
often
in
squares
and
residential
buildings.
B
Rental
buildings
can
often
be
in
in
rectangles
because
of
the
way
that
the
room
fabric
fits
into
the
building.
So
it's
not
always
it's
just
not
that
simple:
to
transform
a
commercial
building
into
a
residential
building.
I
think
that's
one
of
the
challenges
you're,
seeing
because
we
actually
looked
at
a
few
things
where
we
were
looking
to
see
if
people
could
sell
us
would
be
willing
to
sell
buildings,
not
maybe
to
us,
but
I
mean
to
to
look
at
for
housing
and
there
weren't
really
that
many
options.
B
So
I
think
I
think
it's
a
conversation
that's
happening.
I
don't
think
it's
evolving
that
quickly,
even
though
we
do
have
these
vacant
spaces
that
aren't
going
to
be
used
and
may
not
be
used,
but
it
might
come
down
to
some
of
these
buildings
need
to
be
torn
down
to
be
built
back
up
to
be
more
useful
space,
which
it's
not
not
all
that
great
either
but
yeah.
It's
simply
just
not
that
not
that
simple,
the
transportation
thing's
a
bit
a
bit
different.
I
mean
it,
it's
not
the
end
of
the
world.
B
If
some
of
the
transportation
patterns
don't
go
back
to
the
way
they
were
because
we
can
then
change
our
priorities
in
terms
of
what
we're
planning
for
from
a
roads
perspective
and
we
have
roads
that
are
that
are
planned
for
for
widening
and
whatnot
that
maybe
we
don't
need
to,
and
maybe
we
can
focus
on
building
a
better,
a
better
network
versus
expanding
the
network.
We
already
have
so
there's
a
lot.
There's
a
lot
there.
B
So
transition
master
plan
should
be
an
interesting
conversation
in
the
next
term,
because
I
I
I
don't
think
we're
going
to
go
back
to
where
we
were
in
2018
2019.
I
think
that's
a
good
thing
because
we,
like
our
transformation
master
plan
and
our
our
our
plans
are
for
for
capital
works,
is
based
really
on
like
three
hours
of
traffic
a
day.
You
know
we
look
at
needing
to
you,
know:
60
million
dollar
plus
to
widen
prince
of
wales
from
stranded
to
hunt
club.
B
That's
that's
just
for
three
hours
of
traffic
a
day
the
rest
of
those
other
21
hours.
That
road
operates
perfectly
fine.
So
is
that
really
the
best
use
of
that
money?
Or
could
we
build
better
networks
within
communities
to
allow
community
connectivity
to
be
stronger
for
transportation
purposes
and
transit
and
all
that
stuff?
So
there's
a
lot
there.
It's
a
big
conversation
for
sure
a
hand
code.
I
think
shannon
story
were
you.
Is
that
okay,
perfect?
Thank
you!
Hey
claude.
E
Thanks,
I
just
wanted
to
return
to
my
comment
and
sort
of
the
gist
of
it
from
the
previous
presentation,
the
audits
and
I
understand
it's
better
buildings
ottawa.
E
E
The
building
is
only
part
of
the
land
and
there
is
a
land
stewardship
component,
that's
involved
and,
like
I
said
it
would
be
really
interesting
to
see
a
landscape
audit
component
to
the
overall
audit
and
how
that
then
feeds
into
sustainability
targets
and
healthy
communities,
because
I
do
think,
that's
a
really
big
part
of
it.
That's
often
been
left
behind.
So
I
think
it's,
it's
just
a
really
great
opportunity.
F
Yeah,
it's
interesting.
You
bring
that
up.
One
piece
that
we're
that
we're
working
on
in
parallel
is-
and
I
don't
have
anything
to
announce
on
this
yet
so
it's
just
for
contemplation
at
this
point,
but
is
how
do
we
decrease
the
amount
of
surface
parking?
That's
taking
that
you
know
it's
contributing
to
both
heat
island
effect.
You
know
water
runoff,
encouraging
encouraging
driving,
especially
free
parking.
So
so
that's
something
that
is
on
our
radar
and,
as
you
know,
it
touches
on
your
land
use
component.
F
If
we
get
rid
of
parking
lots,
we
might
have
more
room
for
trees
or
permeable
spaces
or
or
just
more
infill
and
keep
our
cities
denser.
So
that
is
something
that's
on
our
radar
and
we're
working
with
many
other
departments
on
who
are
implicated.
In
that
conversation,
parking
management
planning
and
so
on.
But
but
I
don't
have
anything
specifically
to
announce
just
yet
on
that
piece.
F
You
can
see
actually
that
the
mayor
of
ottawa
did
send
a
letter
to
the
minister
of
transportation
at
the
provincial
level,
asking
for
some
authorities
around
around
tax
boxes
regarding
parking.
E
Yeah,
it
really
is
all
interrelated
and
it's
it's.
It
would
be
challenging
to
to
expand
it,
but
I
think
it
could
be
really
interesting
as
well.
B
All
right,
so
it
looks
like
that's.
Obviously,
janice
is
here
for
the
next
presentation
too,
which
I
know
we
kind
of
touched
on
a
little
bit
because
obviously
there's
a
lot
of
interrelationship
between
when
we
talked
about
these
two
two
items,
but
I
don't
think
there's
any
questions
on
this
one.
So
can
we
receive
this
update
for
information
received?
Thank
you
very
much.
Okay,
so
now
item
three
better
homes,
loan
program.
F
Okay
sure
no
problem
yeah,
the
residential
component,
the
better
homes
loan
program,
is
focusing
on
that
that
residential
side
of
the
equation,
the
there's,
call
it
380,
000
units
in
ottawa,
of
which
70
000
or
so
are
in
multi-unit
residential
buildings,
mostly
condos,
and
the
balance
are
in
some
smaller
rise.
So
that's
that's!
What
we're
talking
about
here
is
kind
of
300
000
homes.
How
do
we
get
them
off?
How
do
we
get
them
off
natural
gas
and
more
energy
efficient?
F
So
we're
calling
this
the
better
homes
ottawa
loan
program
go
ahead
to
the
next
slide,
so
we're
going
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
how
this
fits
into
our
energy
evolution
targets
I'll
skip
through
some
slides
that
look
pretty
similar
to
the
last
presentation.
F
You'll
hear
a
bit
about
the
program
design,
some
of
the
results
to
date.
We
launched
the
program
in
november,
so
we've
got
some
results
under
our
belt.
Some
of
the
lessons
learned
our
program
recapitalization
that
council
moffett
alluded
to
and
then
oh
well
no
panel
discussion
on
this
piece,
but
discussion
from
from
you
folks
go
ahead
next
slide
eric.
F
So
this
slide
you've
seen
so
again
we're
talking
about
the
existing
buildings
wedge
and
we
need
to
get
about
30
of
emissions
from
that
from
that
wedge
of
which
residential
is,
is
the
majority,
in
fact,
but
there
is
commercial
and
industrial
in
there
go
ahead
next
slide.
F
You've
seen
this
one,
so
we
can
probably
just
skip
ahead.
We've
talked
about
that
one
in
great
detail.
I
think
you
understand
that.
Well,
okay,
so
here's
where
the
rubber
hits
the
road.
So
in
order
to
meet
those
targets
and
that
nice
wedge
diagram,
we
need
to
retrofit
990
000
buildings
residential
homes
by
2030,
and
if
that's
not
enough,
we
need
to
achieve
327
000
retrofits
by
2040..
F
So
that's
what
we're
talking
about
in
terms
of
scale
and
when
we
say
retrofit
we
don't
mean
doing
a
bit
of
insulation
in
the
attic
and
talking
around
the
windows.
We
mean
deep
energy
retrofits.
We
need
to
achieve
on
average
70
thermal
savings
70.
That
means
adding
two
inches
of
insulation
around
every
building
effectively
and
we
need
to
achieve
electrical
savings
of
about
30
before
fuel.
Switching
those
electrical
savings
are
easier
to
imagine,
that's
through
more
efficient
appliances,
better
lights
and
but
it's
the
thermal
savings.
F
That
is
really
the
challenge
to
think
about,
and
then
not
only
that,
but
we
also
then
have
to
switch
all
of
the
natural
gas
furnaces
out
for
heat
pumps
by
2040.
So
that's
half
a
million
heat
pumps
that
needs
to
be
installed
by
2040
and
while
we're
at
it
we're
gonna
put
about
20
percent
of
rooms.
One
in
five
are
gonna:
have
a
rooftop
solar
system,
solar
photovoltaic
unit
on
the
roof,
so
by
2050.
So
this
is
what
our
team
is
trying
to
tackle.
F
Go
ahead
next
slide,
so
we've
got
off
to
a
to
a
rapid
start,
thankfully,
although
still
only
a
very
small
drop
in
a
very
big
bucket,
but
but
so
far
so
we
launched
the
better
homes
ottawa
loan
program
in
november,
and
we
had
12
million
dollars
secured
for
the
initial
launch.
It's
for
all
small
residential
buildings,
so
part
nine
of
the
building
code,
basically
three
stories
or
less.
F
F
We
then
blew
through
that
money
in
about
three
months,
so
there
was
tons
of
uptake
tons
of
demand,
a
huge
waiting
list,
and
so
we
went
back
to
council
and
said:
please
counsel
can
we
have
some
more
and
they
approved
us
another
up
to
another
30
million
in
debt
capital
for
loan
capital
that
we
could
that
staff
was
authorized
to
seek
during
to
cover
us,
hopefully
until
council,
resumes
in
in
the
spring
of
or
in
this,
in
the
winter
of
2023.
F
F
So
yeah,
let's
just
see
so
it's
using
the
local
improvement
charge
mechanism,
which
is
a
mechanism
unique
to
the
municipality.
Basically,
it
allows
the
municipality
to
put
a
priority
lien
on
the
property
for
the
value
of
the
loan.
So
if
we
lend
a
building
owner
forty
thousand
dollars,
we
then
put
a
lien
against
their
property
for
that
forty
thousand
dollars
and
they
pay
that
back
through
their
property
tax
bill
until
it's
paid
off
and
then
and
then
it's
waived
from
the
property.
F
So
it's
nice
that
it's
a
loan
against
the
property
and
not
against
the
individual.
That's
that's
helpful
for
these
long-term
repayments.
It's
also
nice,
because
municipalities
can
also
uniquely
access
long-term,
fixed
interest
debt.
So,
although
mortgage
companies
only
offer
up
to
five
years,
fixed
interest,
municipalities
can
offer
up
to
20
years.
So
that's
what
those
are.
The
two
kind
of
selling
features
of
our
of
our
program
and
our
sort
of
unique
position
there
through
the
local
improvement
charge
mechanism,
we
are
following
the
enter
guide:
the
natural
resources,
canada
federal
program,
enter
guide.
F
It's
been
around
for
a
long
time
we're
using
that
as
the
pre
and
post
audit
requirement
to
to
make
sure
that
retrofits
are
done
with
some
level
of
professional
oversight.
It
is.
Our
program
is
stackable,
with
other
incentives
like
the
greener
homes
grant
program
that
the
federal
government
has
right
now
and
other
incentives
that
the
utilities
might
offer
for
for
different
applications.
F
We
also
offer
support
by
way
of
an
energy
coach,
to
help
homeowners
with
the
implementation.
So
it's
kind
of
a
support
line.
Someone
who
knows
you
know
your
building
and
can
help
walk
you
through.
You
know
making
some
tough
decisions
about
what
to
insulate,
which
contractors
to
go
with,
and
that
kind
of
thing
next
slide.
Please
eric,
so
the
loans
that
people
are
able
to
access
are
minimum
of
15
000.
F
We
want
to
do
projects
that
are
that
are
a
decent
size,
maximum
of
10
of
their
home
value
or
up
to
125
000
max
the
rates
that
we're
offering
right.
Now
we,
the
latest
the
last
transfer,
was
at
two
point.
Three
sorry
three
point:
two:
five
percent:
we
had
the
first
trash
at
zero
percent
that
was
very
attractive.
Of
course,
the
latest
round
was
at
3.25
and
we're
negotiating
something.
That's
probably
going
to
be
more
around
the
four
and
a
half
range,
because
interest
rates
have
gone
up.
F
That
much
in
about
a
month
and
a
half
but
but
that's
kind
of
what
we
can
access
and,
like
I
said
it's
fixed
for
20
years.
So
it's
a
it's
a
fixed
rate
interest
and
we're.
We
are
tacking
on
an
admin
fee
to
cover
the
city's
costs
of
four
percent
of
capital.
F
We
are
offering
the
zero
percent
loan
still
to
the
low-income
qualified
residents,
so
we
kept
aside
a
portion
of
that
first
tranche
of
money
for
low-income,
qualified
individuals,
we're
also
offering
them
free
a
free,
retrofit
manager.
So
someone
to
sort
of
project
manage
the
whole
thing
and
we're
waiving
for
them
the
administrative
fee
as
well.
So
if
you
know
anyone
who
fits
that
category,
please
let
them
know
where
the
definition
of
low
income
for
us
is
the
same
as
the
enbridge
definition.
F
F
We
are
offering
a
fairly
simplistic
repayment
option.
It's
sort
of
over.
You
know
linear
over
20
years,
or
pay
it
off
on
in
all.
At
one
time
in
one
lump
sum,
often
people
might
look
at
that
as
when
they
sell
the
home,
they
want
to
just
waive
or
pay
off
any
liens
against
the
property
as
one
of
the
conditions
of
sale.
So
that's
an
option.
There's
no
penalty
for
that,
but
there
are.
There
are
no
other
prepayment
options
available.
F
The
way
that
you
might
have
with
your
mortgage,
for
example,
the
city's
just
trying
to
keep
it
simple
here
I
mentioned
the
enter
guide,
pre
and
post
audit
to
sort
of
verify
the
work
has
been
completed.
F
We
are
doing
a
credit
rating
check
in
the
sense
that
we're
looking
back
at
five
years
of
property,
tax,
payment,
history
and
water
bill
history.
If
those
are
are
on
track,
then
we
don't
do
a
credit
check
if
they're
not
on
track
or
if
they're
they're,
not
if
someone
hasn't
lived
in
their
home
for
five
years
or
in
the
city
of
ottawa
for
five
years,
then
we
do
ask
for
a
credit
check
from
a
qualified
bank.
F
We
haven't
pre-qualified
any
specific
contractors,
but
we
are
offering
contractor
certification
and
training
programs.
So
we
are
profiling,
the
ones
who
who
graduate
from
our
training
programs
but
we're
not
requiring
that
only
those
contractors
be
used,
and
so
far
our
financing
sources
have
come
from
the
federation
of
canadian
municipalities
for
the
first,
eight
million
dollar
loan
and
four
million
dollar
grant
and
vance
city
credit
union.
F
Our
sorry
vancity
city
investment
bank,
community
investment
bank
has
provided
the
an
additional
four
million
and
we're
negotiating
the
next
15
million
with
vancity
go
to
the
next
slide.
Please
so.
Measures
that
are
eligible
is
effectively
anything
that
reduces
your
thermal
demand,
your
mechanical
systems
as
well.
So
your
heating
systems,
as
long
as
they're,
not
fossil
fuel-based,
they're
eligible
and
renewable
energy.
F
Energy
installations,
as
well
as
electric
vehicle
chargers,
can
all
be
considered
eligible
under
the
under
the
yeah
as
part
of
the
loan
package
go
ahead
to
the
next
one,
also
we're
doing
water
efficiency,
so
low
flow
fixtures.
F
We
can
include
some
health
and
safety
measures
as
well,
so
if
there
is
a
requirement
to
do
environmental
remediation
as
part
of
the
like,
maybe
mold
or
asbestos
as
part
of
the
work,
then
that
would
that
could
be
an
included
capital
cost,
as
well
as
any
electrical
upgrades
that
might
be
required
to
improve
the
the
energy
efficiency
we're,
including
some
climate
adaptation,
improvements
to
prevent
flooding
and
and
foundation.
Waterproofing,
for
example,
that's
that's
also
eligible
and
we're
encouraging.
Actually
the
inc.
F
The
addition
of
secondary
units
secondary
suites
as
part
of
this
program
as
well
so
up
to
30
of
the
loan
value,
can
be
for
secondary
dwellings
for
adding
a
rental
unit,
because
we
really
are
focused.
We
want
to
encourage
intensification
and
increasing
of
you
know
the
density
of
of
living
quarters
as
part
of
our
energy
efficiency,
because,
where
you
live,
is
equally
as
much
of
your
and
how
much
square
footage
you
live
in
is
equally
as
much
of
your
environmental
footprint
as
as
as
your
energy
consumption.
F
So
thanks
for
the
next
slide,
please
eric!
F
So
so
far
since
the
program
launched
in
mid-november,
we've
had
about
617
people
apply
officially
when
the
program
was
open
and
close
to
400
apply
on
get
their
name
on
the
waiting
list,
since
we
had
to
close
the
program
of
the
work
done
to
date
or
of
the
loans
requested,
we're
looking
at
we're
seeing
about
forty
thousand
dollars
being
the
average
loan
request
for
people
who
are
working
their
way
through
the
the
program
we've
had
of
the
total
we've
had
about,
2.4
million
is
has
actually
gone
out.
F
The
door
has
been
requested
and
the
rest
of
it
has
been
spoken
for,
but
not
actually
gone
out
the
door
yet
because
it
takes
time
from
audit
to
retrofit
average
homes.
The
average
year
of
homes
built
is
around
1970,
so
we're
getting
some
of
the
older
homes,
which
is
good.
F
Those
are
the
ones
that
really
need
some
energy
efficiency
improvements
and
when
you
look
at
the
different
project
types
on
the
right,
you
can
see
that
air
sealing
is
there's
a
number
of
buildings,
doing
that
which
is
good,
because
that's
actually
a
requirement
under
the
program
that
they
improve
their
air
sealing
by
caulking
and
weather
stripping,
because
it's
the
most
cost
effective
measure
that
that
just
makes
everything
else
more
more
effective
by
keeping
the
heat
in
we've
seen
a
number
of
solar
photovoltaic
systems
go
in
we've,
seen
quite
a
few
heat
pumps,
air
source,
predominantly
we've
seen
a
couple
of
ground
source
heat
pumps
which
is
or
sorry
domestic,
hot
water.
F
Pardon
me
that's
for
for
a
hot
water
tank
using
a
heat
pump
technology,
quite
a
bit
of
insulation
windows
and
door
replacements,
we've
seen
a
little
bit
of
climate
adaptation
and
three
places
that
are
pursuing
secondary
suites.
F
As
of
when
we
created
this
chart,
go
ahead
next
slide
eric
okay,
so
I
said
we
were
recapitalizing
so
we've
accessed,
like
I
said,
we've
got
eight
million
loan,
four
million
grant
from
bands
from
fcm
an
additional
four
million
from
vancity
was,
was
secured
and
spoken
for
quickly
and
now
we're
pursuing
another
15
million
for
the
first
trial
of
a
council
approved
max
of
30
million
over
the
next.
That
staff
has
authority
to
to
seek
so
once
we
go
through
15
we'll
go
back
for
the
next
15.
F
aiming
to
reopen
the
program
imminently
in
june.
Hopefully
I
think
there's
a
fedco
meeting
june
28th,
where
this
I
think,
there's
an
adventure
committee
meeting
that
has
to
happen
before
we
can
reopen.
So
that's
what
we're
targeting
is
an
end
of
june.
Reopening
of
the
program
go
ahead
to
the
next
slide,
eric,
so
we're
doing
some
things
to
kind
of
support
the
whole
sort
of
retrofit
ecosystem.
F
In
addition
to
this
loan
program,
where
we're
offering
you
might
have
heard
of
our
rain
ready
ottawa
initiative,
that's
that's
that
grant
program
to
support
stormwater
management
on
on
properties.
So,
there's
that's
a
parallel
program
that
my
team
is
offering,
as
I
mentioned,
where
we
know
that
that
skilled
trades
or
skilled
labor
is
sometimes
difficult
to
access
for
some
of
these
deep
retrofits.
F
So
we've
done
some
free
courses
for
both
contractors,
so
retrofit
contractors
about
some
net
zero
training,
as
well
as
we've
done
some
heat
pump,
marketing
and
sales
courses
for
hvac
installers
to
help
them
become
more
familiar
with
with
heat
pumps
and
cold
climate
heat
pumps
in
particular.
F
We've
also
put
some
thermal
cameras
or
a
thermal
camera
in
every
library
branch,
so
that
people
can
borrow
those
and
do
some
diy
sort
of
scouting
of
where
to
improve
the
insulation
in
their
homes
and
where
they
might
have
cold
air
coming
in
those
are
more
useful
in
the
winter
time,
but
they
can
still
provide
some
insights
in
the
summer
as
well.
If
you
can't,
if
you
use
them
at
night,
when
the
outside
air
is
cooler,
it
could
still
provide
some
interesting
information,
we're
doing
some
bulk
procurement
as
well.
F
We're
looking
for
sponsorship
or
we're
talking
to
some
heat
pump
providers
about
being
sponsors
and
giving
discounts
on
the
program
for
in
on
on
their
equipment,
sorry
for
in
exchange
for
profile
through
the
program
and
we're
working
with
enviro
center
on
their
future
homes
pilot
project.
So
that's
really
focusing
on
community
scale
retrofits,
and
how
can
we
really
bring
down
the
price
of
retrofits
if
we
focus
on
a
geographically
targeted
neighborhood,
so
we're
doing
that
in
collaboration
with
enviro
center?
F
And
I
should
say
this
whole
program
actually
is
predominantly
being
delivered
through
envirocenter,
they're,
they're,
doing
the
sort
of
front
house
front
of
house
piece,
the
the
applications,
the
energy
coaching,
the
energy
audits
and
the
city
of
ottawa
staff
are
doing
the
the
on
the
property
tax
bill
and
loan
collection
piece
predominantly,
and
some
of
this
other
stuff
that
you
see
on
the
on
the
page
here:
the
training
and
so
on.
F
Okay,
next
slide,
please
eric
okay,
that's
that's
the
end
of
my
talking
head
portion
of
the
meeting
so
feel
free
to
ask
any
questions
now,
if
you'd
like,
and
if
you
want
to
reach
out
to
us
after
the
fact
you
can
reach
me
at
my
direct
email
or
at
the
betterhomes
ottawa.ca
address,
and
then
for
envirocenter,
they
have
better
homes
at
envirocentral.ca.
B
Thank
you
very
much
questions
for
janice
on
this
one.
G
C
Yes,
I
was
wondering
about
how
you
are
expecting
that
homeowners
are
going
to
be
able
to
carry
like
a
second
loan.
In
addition
to
rising
mortgage
rates.
I
think
there
might
be
some
hesitancy
to
take
on
more
debt,
even
for
climate
objectives,.
F
Yeah
good
question
I
mean
so
what
we're
anticipating
is
that
the
energy
savings
will
result
in
the
net
like
cash
flow,
neutral
situation
for
the
homeowner.
So
by
doing
the
improvements
and
stretching
those
amortizing
those
over
20
years
at
a
low
interest
rate,
we're
expecting
that
the
cash
flow
state,
the
cash
flow
impact
will
be
effectively
neutral
for
the
for
the
building
owner,
we're
not
guaranteeing
that
it
depends
what
they
do.
F
Of
course,
it
depends
which
measures
they're
they're
implementing
and
their
occupation
of
the
building,
that
that
can
change,
of
course,
their
utility
bills
as
well,
but,
but
that
is
the
intention,
but
we
do
have
some
benefits
some
sort
of
checks
and
balances
in
there
to
make
sure
that
we're
not
you
know
in
a
predatory
lending
position
right.
So
we
have
a
cap
of
10
of
the
property
value
is,
is
the
max
that
they
can
borrow.
F
We
also
have,
if
they're,
if
they're
on
the
cmhc
mortgage
insurance
program,
where
they
have
less
than
twenty
percent
down
on
their
on
their
property,
then
their
max
is
actually
five
percent
of
property
value
so
that
we're
not
leveraging
more
than
the
equity.
They
have
in
their
home,
so
those
are
some
of
the
measures
we
have
in
place
and
then,
like
I
said,
we
have
some
specific
options
for
low
income
qualified
for
folks
who
might
really
be
in
that
energy
poverty
situation.
B
F
Yeah
we
can
do
some
we'll
have
all
of
their
energy
audits.
We
have
access
to
all
of
the
energy
audits,
so
those
make
some
initial
estimates
of
energy
savings
dollar
values.
So
in
our
report
back
to
council
that
we're
we're
expecting
a
pretty
comprehensive
report
in
probably
march
of
next
year,
when
council
is
sitting
again
and
we'll
be
looking
at
some
of
those
measures
for
sure.
B
Yeah,
I
think
I
think,
obviously
I
think
that's
if
that's
realized,
that's
just
only
going
to
lead
to
more
interest
in
the
program
I
mean,
even
from
even
from
a
council
perspective,
to
understand
the
value
of
some
of
these.
You
know
big
expenditures
on
retrofits
for
some
of
our
buildings,
if
you,
if
you're.
B
Actually,
if
you
have
the
proof
there
to
see
that
the
investment
results
in
a
you
know,
with
a
net
gain
in
terms
of
your
your
operating
dollars
or
your
expenses
to
to
heat
or
all
these
different
things,
it's
going
to
lead
to
more
support
for
the
program.
F
Yeah,
that's
a
great
question:
yeah.
We
will
have
the
the
data
available
to
do
that.
Number
crunching.
We
don't
have
enough
people
through
the
program
yet
to
really
see,
but
we
reserve
the
right
or
homeowners
sign
up
to
being
willing
to
give
us
their
utility
bills,
for
I
think
up
to
two
or
five
years
after
they
do
the
retrofit.
F
So
we
can
go
back
and
do
some
spot
checks
as
well
and
just
sort
of
make
sure
that
that
our
assumptions
are
are
true
as
well
to
make
sure
that
they're
getting
you
know,
energy
savings
as
well
as
financial
savings.
B
D
For
that,
just
I'm
kind
of
again,
I
think
you
know
eileen's
question
about
affordability,
because
I'm
looking
at
the
program-
yes,
you
know
you're
correct
or
maybe
some
home
owners
will,
you
know,
be
able
to
pay
off
that
loan,
just
simply
through
simply
through
the
improvements
to
their
energy
bills.
Over
time,
is
that
initial
consultation
is
it?
Is
it
offered
for
free
or
is
this?
Is
this
part
of
the
energy
coach?
D
Is
this
like
how
how
how
do
you
encourage
homeowners
to
you
know,
go
and
access
this
alone
and
actually
be
convinced
that,
yes,
we've
looked
at
your
home
we've,
you
know
these
are
the
things
that
we've
identified
and
forget
about.
Your
kind
of
you
know
trying
to
save
the
environment
and
try
to
do
your
part.
Here
is
the
benefit
to
your.
You
know
to
what
you
know
your
monthly
or
yearly
expenditures,
and
it
makes
sense
for
you
to
do
this-
is
that
initial
coaching
that
initial
assessment
kind
of
offered
for
free.
F
Audit,
that's
the
that's
the
process
that
we
require.
It's
not
free,
but
it's
covered
under
a
grant
from
the
federal
government,
so
we
help
them
apply
for
that
grant
and
the
greener
homes
brand,
so
they
can
get.
They
can
get
the
audit
cost
covered,
as
well
as
up
to
five
thousand
dollars
in
grant
to
support
their
work,
to
support
the
capital
cost
of
of
their
improvements.
So
there's
been
a
lot
of
people
applying
for
both
our
program
and
that
federal
program
to
sort
of
build
on
build
on
the
two
right.
F
I
think
does
that
answer
your
question.
Muhammad.
D
Yeah,
no,
that's
right.
It's
just
initial
access!
That's
that's!
All
I'm
wondering
about
is
that?
How
do
you
get
people
really
engaged
in
this
program?
Or
you
know
because
yeah,
it's
you
know
unless
they
can
see
that
and
understand
that
knowledge,
some
some
owners
might
not.
You
know
want
to
pay
that
if
there's
a
cost
to
that
assessment,
somehow
owners
might
just
say
well,
you
know
I'll
wait,
and
so
I
know
it's
good
yeah.
F
Yeah
and
we're
working
on
some
nifty
sort
of
software
tools
that
might
give
people
some
insights
just
based
on
because
with
homes
they're
pretty
similar
right
homes
built
at
a
similar
age
operate
fairly.
F
Similarly,
in
terms
of
their
energy
consumption
and
there's
a
lot
of
great
data
that
the
federal
government
has
that
that
has
been
provided
to
us
as
well
to
sort
of
archetype
those
homes,
so
so
we're
working
with
some
software
providers
to
think
about
how
could
we
give
as
much
information
to
a
homeowner
before
they
have
to
do
anything
about
what
they
should
do
about
it
on
there
to
to
improve
the
energy
efficiency
of
their
home
just
based
on
the
age,
the
square
footage,
perhaps
the
orientation,
and
we
can.
F
We
can
give
some
pretty
good
estimates
like
we
know
buildings
built
before
the
80s.
Don't
have
enough
insulation
so
starting
right
there,
you
know
that's,
probably
a
top
priority
right.
So
those
kinds
of
you
know,
rules
of
thumb
are
very,
very
effective
in
the
in
the
residential
space,
and
you
can
look
to
some
other
jurisdictions.
F
Some
neat
work
on
this,
but
the
maritime
provinces
are
are
working
on
some
interesting
stuff
too,
and
actually
most
recently,
edmonton
has
has
come
up
with
a
really
or
is
just
about
to
launch
their
program
where
they're,
effectively
giving
buildings
an
energy
label
an
estimated
energy
label
just
based
on
their
age
and
square
footage
and
then
encouraging
building,
and
with
that
some
some
suggestions
of
what
they
might
like
to
do
might
be
might
benefit
from
doing
from
an
energy
consumption
point
of
view
and
some
estimated
paybacks
and
you
know
most
buildings
of
your
age
and
your
size
would
benefit
this
this
much
per
year
from
changing
your
hot
water
tank,
for
example,
or
changing
your
windows
and
and
then
with
that
the
homeowner
would
then
be
invited
to
either
see
you
know,
make
the
information
more
accurate,
upload
utility
data,
for
example,
and
get
that
energy
score
more
accurate
or
go
and
get
an
energy
audit
and
and
start
the
program
of
or
the
process
of
retrofitting.
F
So
we're
working
on
that
component
too.
I
I
hope
to
have
something
flashy
to
show
you
in
the
next
couple
of
months,
but
but
it's
it's
not
quite
ready
for
today's
audience.
D
Just
one
more
question:
so
this
is
kind
of
a
loan
program
for
building
owners.
Now,
what
kind
of
strikes
me
is
that
some
some
owners
who
might
purchase
a
new
home
that
will
have
many
components
that
are,
you
know,
have
a
higher
quality
and
a
higher
standard
in
terms
of
envelope,
performance
or
energy
efficiency,
and
all
that,
but
some,
some
of
whom
some
new
homeowners
might
not
might
actually
be
eligible.
D
Strangely
enough,
for
you
know,
doing
some
improvements
to
their
to
their
home
with
components
that
are
relatively
relatively
speaking
new,
but
that
might
end
up
being
swapped.
Let's
say
you
know
going
from
you
know
a
gas-fired
furnace
to
air
source
and
so
of
certainly
get
this
kind
of
brand
new
resource.
That
is,
I
don't
know.
Well,
hopefully,
we'll
have
an
afterlife,
but
is
there
does
have
you
thought
of
how
that
program
or
does
a
program
exist?
D
That
extends
this
type
of
financing,
this
type
of
kind
of
incentive
to
home
builders,
so
that
somehow,
by
the
you
know,
home
owners
get
a
product,
that's
already
future
proof
and
and
that
somehow
that
cause
that
extra
cost,
that
that
burden
is
necessarily
carried
by
the
builder
or
as
it's
passed
on
to
the
homeowner.
D
That
kind
of
impact
of
that
future-proof
building
is
softened
a
bit.
F
Yes,
exactly
we're
we're
working
on
that
so
rebecca
and
I,
as
you
can
imagine,
are,
are
talking
are
working
on
through
that
that
exact
concept
of
how
can
we
offer
our
financing
mechanism
to
property
properties
under
construction
so
that
they
can
go
deeper
right?
So
they
can
have
a
more
energy
efficient
building
at
the
point
of
construction,
using
the
high
performance
development
standard
as
a
benchmark
or
as
a
threshold
for
that
and
looking
at
sort
of
construction
financing.
F
So
we're
working
with
the
stakeholders,
the
the
development,
the
developers
on
figuring
out
the
best
mechanism.
For
that-
and
I
can
say
there
will
be
some
proposal
put
forward
to
counsel
when
we
come
back
to
council
with
our
full
report
in
probably
march
that
will
tackle
that
piece
and
and
propose
suggestions
for
how
we
would
extend
the
high
performance,
the
better
homes
loan
program,
also
to
new
construction.
D
Have
a
great
resource
here:
there's
a
drag
crew
on
the
committee
is
also
kind
of
represents
the
overall
builders
association.
Is
that
right,
david?
That's
a,
I
think,
a
great
resource
to
draw
on
for
him.
H
Yeah,
I'm
the
I'm,
the
president
of
the
greater
ottawa
home
builder,
so
you
know
I
really
appreciate
every
janus
great
presentations.
I
think
we
all
want
to
reduce
greenhouse
gas
emissions.
I've
been
very
quiet
tonight
because
you
know
housing.
Affordability
is
is
a
very
big
problem
for
the
city
of
ottawa.
Right
now,
and
you
know
the
high
performance
development
standards
added
cost
to
a
project.
We
we
all
want
to
reduce
greenhouse
gas
emissions.
H
We
all
want
to
have
a
good
tree
canopy,
but
you
know
we
also
have
to
make
sure
that
first-time
home
buyers
can
afford
a
home
inflation's
gone
up.
Interest.
Interest
rates
have
gone
up.
We
have,
as
I
said,
the
high
performance
development
standards.
The
inclusion
arizona
is
a
special
meeting
tomorrow.
H
Next
thursday
we
have
a
community
community
benefit
charges
coming
up,
dc's
just
went
up
16.2
percent.
You
know
the
additional
land
carry
with
interest.
As
I
mentioned,
there's
a
new
parks
land.
First
policy-
that's
going
to
be
at
planning
committee
next
thursday.
You
know
it's
just
it's
hard
to
try
to
find
anyone
that
can
afford
all
of
these
new
policy
initiatives
as
well
as
energy
modeling
requirements.
So
listen.
I
think
your
presentations
were
phenomenal.
I
really
do
like
on.
If
there's
anything
the
home
builders
can
do
with
you
we'd
love
to
do
that.
H
I
loved
hearing
you
talk
about
educating
skilled
trades.
If
we
can
help
you
there,
100
percent,
if
we
can
work
with
you
on
new
home
construction,
100
percent,
we
want
to
do
that.
I
think
majority
of
greenhouse
gas
emissions
are
coming
from
older
buildings,
so
I'm
representing
new
construction.
So
if
there's
anything,
we
can
do
100.
Let's
do
that.
Let's
find
a
way.
You
know
my
emails
on
the
meeting
agenda,
but
boy
housing,
affordability
is.
H
Great
questions
from
the
other
panelist
members
and
I'm
just
I'm
just
thinking
who's
gonna
pay
for
that
first
time,
home
buyers.
Unless
you're
making
200
000
a
year,
you
can't
buy
a
new
home.
F
Yeah-
and
these
are
all
valid
concerns
david,
I
would,
I
would
hazard
a
guess-
although
I
haven't
done
the
analysis
yet
to
guest
but
to
find
out
for
sure,
but
I
would
think
of
the
sort
of
hundred
or
a
thousand
people
who've
applied
for
our
program.
The
majority
of
them
would
have
lived
in
their
home
for
more
than
five
years.
You
know,
they're,
not
people
who've,
just
purchased.
F
People
who
are
just
purchasing
like
you've
said
are
squeezed
and
prices
just
went
up
a
lot,
and
so
that's
difficult,
but
there
are
a
lot
of
people
in
ottawa
who
have
been
in
their
homes
for
20
plus
years
and
and
have
a
lot
of
energy
efficiency
improvements
to
make
and
have
a
valuable
asset
that
they've
paid
off
fully
right.
F
So
so
those
are
kind
of
the
target
audiences
of
our
program
to
start,
and
we
absolutely
need
to
get
everyone
somehow
98
of
buildings
have
to
be
retrofit,
but
but
perhaps
not
those
that
have
just
purchased
and
gone
through.
Some
of
your.
You
know
some
of
the
challenges
that
you
just
spoke
about,
so.
H
No,
you,
you
have
tremendously
ambitious
goals
and
if
we
can
help
you
100
would
like
to
do
that.
I
mean
to
say
to
retro
retrofit
27
in
the
next
eight
years.
Wow.
That's
that's
ambitious!
Also,
the
provincial
government
just
came
out
and
said
we
have
to
build
1.5
million
homes
in
the
next
10
years,
which
ottawa
is
10
of
that
number.
So
ottawa
has
to
build
15
000
homes
per
year
to
even
contribute
our
share
to
that
number,
and
ottawa
historically
is
doing
9
000
homes
a
year.
F
H
To
build
an
extra
6
000
homes
a
year
plus
supply
chain
issues,
plus
the
shortage
of
trades,
and
then
we
also
have
to
do
the
retrofits
as
well.
So
it's
it's
a
it's
a
city-wide
problem.
You
know
and
I
think,
if
all
stakeholders
row
in
the
same
direction,
we
can
certainly
achieve
more
together,
but
100.
F
B
Thanks
thanks,
I
know
the
one
thing
though
one
thing
you
mentioned
this
cbc,
the
community
benefits
church.
That's
that
does.
C
B
Another
charge,
though
right
that
replaces
section
37,
so
something
some
things
are
coming
off.
Something's
come
on,
so
some
things
they
might
not
be
like
for
like,
but
the
intent
of
cbc
was
to
actually
provide
some
relief
for
development
industry.
Maybe
it
hasn't
worked
out
that
way,
but
that's
certainly
what
the
intent
was
when
the
when
the
province
brought
it
forward
in
lieu
of
in
lieu
of
section
37,
because
it
was
more
recent
that
was
that
was
under
this
government.
D
H
H
If
this
is
for
it,
but
you
know
section
37
was
a
a
an
incentive
for
increased
density
and
community
benefit
charges
will
be
be
going
across
the
whole
city
right.
So
it's
not
it's
not
incentive
based,
and
I
think
I
think,
there's
ongoing
discussions
now,
where
there's
general
disagreement
on
what
qualifies
for
a
community
benefit
charge.
So
those
discussions
are
ongoing
with
with
stops.
So
it
may
not
be
appropriate
for
me
to.
B
No,
that's
fair.
Like
I
said
cbc
comes
next
week
I
mean
I
I
think
section
37
was
misleading.
I
think
it's
misleading
to
communities
because
we
set
these
numbers
in
our
in
our
plans
and
our
secondary
plans.
We
say
well,
this
is
our.
This
is
where
the
the
height
limit
is,
and
then
we
use
section
37
to
increase
money
that
we
get
to
the
community
or
benefits
to
the
community
by
allowing
the
height
to
go
up
above
what
the
secondary
plan
said.
B
So
it's
almost
like
this
weird
form
of
urban
planning,
entrapment
that
you,
you
create
this
scenario
where
you
incentivize
to
go
above
a
height
that
the
community
didn't
want
you
to
go
above,
but
then
you,
you
dangle
some
money
at
them
to
say.
Well,
it's
okay,
because
we
just
gave
you
this
section
37
to
me,
never
made
sense,
but
I'm
just
one
person
and
I
represent
a
real
constituency.
So
what
the
hell
do,
I
know
we'll
go
to
cora.
G
So,
instead
of
like
the
big
developers,
they
they
don't
get,
they
don't
care
because
they
give
the
house
and
one
year.
That's
it.
I
don't
care
anymore.
That's
it.
Och
is
trying
to
look
much
more
to
the
future
because
they
know
that
those
buildings,
they
will
still
be
the
owners
and
they
still
need
to
reduce
the
the
energy
and
the
cost
and
everything
so
all
the
money
that
they're
putting
now
the
the
numbers.
It's
very
easy
to
understand.
G
So
I
understand
that
you're
concerned
about
that
for
the
new
owners,
that's
why
we
are
trying
to
design
houses
that
can
allow
the
third
generation
to
live
or
the
secondary,
suites
or
all
those
type
of
things.
So
if
they
cannot
afford-
and
we
have
to
remember
that
in
this
moment
with
all
the
technology
we
are
having
and
all
we
are
like
in
this
tsunami
of
change-
that's
the
problems
that
we
are
having
now
from
now
on
all
the
changes
in
technology
and
what
is
coming
with
the
changes
for
energy.
G
G
B
Thanks
corey,
I
think
it's,
I
think
it's
it's
a
tough
conversation,
because
I
think
it's
housing.
Affordability
is
a
big,
I
mean.
Obviously,
housing
affordability
is
affordable
housing.
You
can't
really
often
people
complete
the
two,
but
the
the
tough
thing
is
that
new
homeowners
don't
often
think
of
the
long-term,
the
long-term
cost
of
a
home
they
think
of
the
sticker
price
the
day
of,
and
that's
one
of
the
toughest
things
to
deal
with.
I
think
I
mentioned
it
before.
B
I
might
have
mentioned
it
before
here.
The
the
company
I
was
dealing
with
that
was
building
a
building
and
they
originally
had
planned
for
a
steel
roof
which
really
fit
in
well
with
the
design
of
the
neighborhood,
but
they
changed
their
plan
through
site
plan
to
a
to
a
shingled
roof,
and
I
I
asked
them.
I
said
what,
like
I
get:
you're
saving
some
money
on
the
upfront
cost,
but
you're
gonna
have
to
replace
that
roof.
B
Shingle
roof
I
mean
based
on
where
you
are.
You
could
be
looking
at
that
being
replaced
every
15
years
that
that
tin
roof
I'll
be
long
dead
before
you
ever
have
to
replace
that
roof.
I
mean
your
long-term
cost
of
your
operating
cost.
You're
building
would
be
far
less
you'd,
be
able
to
save
that
amount
of
money
every
every
so
odd
years,
and
I
said
we
have
a
we
have
an
envelope
to
fit
in.
B
We
have
a
budget
to
fit
in
for
this
building
right
now,
so
that
problem
there
with
replacing
this
shingle
roof
in
15
years
is
a
problem
that
we'll
face
then,
but
we
have
to
fit
within
this
envelope
right
now
and
that's
that's
often
the
challenge
you
have
for
for
a
new,
homeowner
or
any
home
buyer
is
that
here
I
have
this.
I
have
this
finite
window
to
fit
it
for
for
my
budget
and
then
what
I
can
afford,
and
that's
that's
often
that
the
challenge
is
that
how
do
you
get
a
homeowner
to
think
of?
B
Well,
if
you
pay
this
extra
money
now
you'll
save
in
the
long
run.
You
know
it's
easier
for
the
city
to
do
it,
it's
easier
for
maybe
companies
to
do
it
sometimes,
but
it's
harder
for
homeowners
and
that's
that's
the
crux
of
the
situation
that
we
have.
It
doesn't
mean
that
we
shouldn't
go
ahead
and
do
these
things
and
and
try
to
strive
for
better.
It's
also
why
the
city
always
looks
to
try
to
find
balance
and
we
work
with
multiple
partners
and
gold
is
one
of
them
on
how
to
how
do
we?
B
B
Well,
we
we
could
start
there
and
we
could
fail,
or
we
could
start
a
little
bit
behind
and
work
toward
it
and
build
up
to
it,
but
you
have
to
start
somewhere.
You
know
we
started
behind
toronto.
We
started
later
than
toronto,
probably
should
have
started
10
years
ago,
but
we
didn't-
and
here
we
are,
but
you
start
somewhere
and
you
try
to
build
on
that
and
like
it's,
it's
never.
B
The
issue
is
it's
it's
never
enough
fast
enough,
but
to
sum
it's
too
much
too
quick.
So
it's
it's
finding
that
balance
and
and
where
it
fits
in.
Amidst
all
these
other
challenges
that
we
hear
today
from
david
from
mccor
and
muhammad
and
what
janice
is
talking
about,
I
mean
there's
so
much
to
play
in
this
discussion.
Muhammad.
D
D
What
I
hope,
we'll
start
to
see,
is
kind
of
an
emerging
understanding
of
the
true
cost
of
homeownership
and
that
it
you
maybe
you
do
have
to
be
people
have
to
you
know
maybe
you'll
end
up
owning
your
home
five
years
later
in
your
life,
just
because
to
have
a
risk
to
be
responsible
to
have
that
responsibility
to
your
fellow
citizens
to
your
global
citizens
that
we
can
as
a
developed,
wealthy
nation.
D
We
we
owe
it
to
ourselves
to
be
examples,
and
that
just
might
mean
that
it
might
take
a
little
bit
longer
to
be
able
to
afford
our
homes.
You
know
and-
and
maybe
that'll
also.
I
think
what
will
end
up
happening.
I
hope
is
also
as
as
cora
was
talking
about,
was
kind
of
these
programs
might
convince
developers
to
switch
to
a
rental
model
where
they
they
now
start
to
think
of
building
higher
quality
homes,
that
they'll
have
to
maintain
for
longer
periods
and
to
reduce
their
operating
costs.
D
They're,
smarter,
they're,
future
proof
and
so
you'll
have
a
good
stock
of
high
quality
rentals
that
are
accessible
to
people
who
you
know
maybe
they'll,
rent
for
a
longer
period
of
their
life
and
then
they'll
might
end
up
deciding
yeah
I
want
to
own
or
no
you
know
what
this
is
such
a
high
quality.
I
mean
look
at
the
rest
of
the
world
like
nobody
has
these.
You
know
this
luxury
of
owning
your
home.
D
When
you,
you
know
a
few
years
out
of
school,
applying
for
a
loan,
that's
a
luxury
that
we
have
here
in
north
america.
It
doesn't
exist
anywhere
else
in
the
world.
So
again,
I
think
these
are
great
programs
it
it.
It
will
mean
that
we
will
need
more
skilled
trades
will
mean
that
we'll
need
kind
of
you
know,
but
it
is.
It
does
ultimately
reflect
the
true
with
everything
that
we
know
about
the
climate
and
our
planet
literally
burning
up.
D
D
You
know
financing.
I
think,
that's
kind
of
really
what
we'll
need
to
be
able
to
reach
some
of
those
extremely
ambitious
goals
that
janus
has
pointed
out.
That
are
frankly,
I
mean,
I
think.
If
anything
we
should
you
know
there's
there
should
be
a
lot
of
more
panic
at
city
hall
of
of
what,
if
we're
doing
is
enough
to
actually
come
even
even
come
close
come
close
to
anywhere
near
those
targets.
It's
just
it's
shocking
to
see.
It's
definitely.
D
But
anyways,
I
think,
they're.
Ultimately,
I
think
what
needs
to
happen
is
that
the
the
true
cost
of
and
again
to
look
at
these
charts?
It's
you
know
we
always
pin
down
industry.
That's
the
industry
are
responsible
for
this
and
this
and
this,
but
it's
actually
the
whole.
You
know
residential
market
and
you
know
those
the
smaller
scale
bills
that
are
really
contributing
to
so
much
of
that
carbon
that
were,
you
know
now
going
back
after
all,
this
stuff
is
out
there
we're
trying
to
say
okay
now,
actually
we
can't
live
this
way
anymore.
D
We
can't
you
know
something,
you
know
we
need
to
scrap
and
we
do,
and
so
it's
I
think
that
understanding
of
what
we
need
to
do
has
been
presented
really
clearly
by
by
janice
and
rebecca,
and
hopefully
that
will
kind
of
well
we'll
start
to
see
that
conversation
shift
in
the
city
and
with
planning
and
development
applications
in
the
future.
It's
a
hard
pill
to
swallow,
but
I
think
I
don't
know
we've
got
to
swallow
it
at
some
point.
H
Counselor,
I
I
I
just
have
to
give
a
little
more
context
like
I'm
again,
I'm
I've
kept
quiet
on
some
of
this,
because
it's
but
the
reality
of
what's
happening
in
the
industry.
I
know
of
five
projects,
high-rise
projects
that
have
been
shelved
in
the
last
two
weeks,
because
material
costs
have
gone
up
so
much.
I
met
with
a
windows
supplier
on
monday,
who
said
glazing
has
gone
up
40,
just
overnight,
glazing,
all
windows,
so
imagine
a
20-story
high-rise.
H
H
I
have
a
project
I'm
actually
working
on
in
kanata
and
steel
went
up
20
two
months
ago,
so
my
project's
still
going
ahead,
but
there's
a
lot
of
developers
that
they
only
have
so
much
financing
from
a
bank
and
if
the
hard
cost
goes
up
now
again,
the
building
code
is
regulated
and
it
is
very
energy
efficient,
not
at
the
same
level.
That
janice
was
you
know
talking
about
so
I
agree
there
are.
H
H
So
perfect
rental
is
at
below
two
percent
in
ottawa.
The
rental
vacancy
rate
is
two
percent,
so
if
we
add
more
population
the
vacancy
rate's
going
to
be
below
one
percent
like
it,
you
have
to
build
homes
for
us
to
get
out
of
this
housing
crisis.
The
only
way
we're
gonna
get
out
of
the
housing
crisis
is
to
build
more
homes,
but
if
the
cost,
if
developers
can't
even
get
financing
for
projects,
because
the
cost
is
so
much
higher,
they
just
won't
build.
So
I'm
sorry
to
be
a.
H
There's
there's
bigger
problems
coming
and
hopefully
you
know
this
committee,
whoever
the
future
members
are
of
this
committee
and
other
initiatives
in
the
city.
We
can
work
together
to
find
solutions,
because
the
only
way
we're
going
to
get
out
of
this
crisis
is
to
create
more
supply
and
if
we
create
more
supply,
the
market
will
balance.
But
right
now
you
know
again,
I'm
telling
you
factually
I'm
not
making
this
up.
Actually,
I
know
of
five
projects,
a
thousand
units
that
have
been
shelved,
because
the
hard
cost
has
gone
up
so
much.
D
It's
a
first
world
problem
for
sure
and
I
think
again
I
think
we
can.
We
can
certainly
afford
to
to
think
and
think
more
about
home
ownership
and
think
about
really.
You
know
one.
You
know
again.
I
think
that
you
know
I
understand
what
it's
like
to
be
a
first-time
homeowner
and
wanting
to
go
out
and
get
something
and
move
in
it's
it's.
D
It's
kind
of
been
embedded
in
everyone's
psyche
for
so
long,
but
I
think
really
we've
seen
where
that
thickens
and
it's
just
we
can't
it's
an
unsustainable
path
and
somehow
somehow
that
that
balances
the
shift
from
that
rush
to
quickly
go
out
and
buy
something
as
soon
as
soon
as
possible.
To
his
you
know,
let's,
let's
move
into
something:
that's
gonna
make
sure
that
our
children
have
a
place
to
live
in
the
future,
and
maybe
I
can
wait
another
5-10
years
to
buy
a
home.
D
But
but
again
I
think
again,
some
of
these
things
that
you're
seeing
are
gonna
end
up
shifting
that
model
from
from
this
kind
of
rush
to
own,
to
maybe
we
rent
it
and
then
we
own-
and
maybe
we
don't
know
it
at
all
and
that's
kind
of,
and
then,
if
there's
a
demand
for
that,
there
will
be,
but
I
think
like
somehow
we
need.
We
owe
it
to
our
children
to
to
start
that
conversation
and
that
difficult
conversation
to
tell
people
hey.
You
know
what
maybe
you
can't
afford
to
home.
D
The
true
cost
of
ownership
is
way
too
high.
Then
you
can
afford
you're
gonna
have
to
wait
and
and
nobody's
asking
for
private
sector
to
carry
that
cost.
But
I
think
that
what
you're
asking
is
that
private
sector
recognize
the
true
cost
of
building
the
true
cost
of
ownership
to
the
environment
and
somehow
have
that
be
reflected
in
in
the
cost
of
the
housing,
and
I
think
ultimately
you
know
we
need
to
be
renting.
More
than
more
people
need
to
find
high
quality
builds.
D
B
All
right
thanks,
I
I
don't,
I
think,
that's
interesting
conversation.
I
think
there
will
be
a
debate
on
council
next
term,
but
I
think
it's
you're
gonna
have
there's
two
there's
two
crises
there
right,
which
ones
which
one's
bigger,
because
the
arguments
on
for
some
is
that
there's
no
question
that
there's
no
better
crisis
than
the
climate
crisis
now
david
you'd
be
positioned
in
a
different
way,
but
likely-
and
I
you're
not
alone.
In
fact,
there's
probably
more
people
that
believe
housing.
B
Affordability
is
a
much
bigger
crisis
than
climate,
that's
not
a
shock
by
any
means.
If
you
talk
to
climate
advocates,
they
know
that
the
people
on
their
side
is
a
smaller
group
than
the
majority.
That's
one
of
the
biggest
challenges
that
they
have
to
to
to
create
that
we
we
had
this
conversation
that
at
our
environment
committee,
just
a
few
weeks
ago,
with
steve
winkleman
from
the
auto
climate
action
fund.
Talking
about
that
and
saying
that
the
client,
the
green
bubble
is
actually
relatively
small.
B
The
folks
that
need
convincing
are
not
me
convincing.
It's
probably
the
wrong
the
way,
but
the
target
audience
for
the
love
of
the
climate
stuff
is
not
is
not
is.
Is
you
know
much
bigger?
It's
it's
about!
85
percent
of
the
city,
because
10
to
15
are
kind
of
they're
there
they
they're
on
side.
So
it's
not
that
easy,
because
politics
is
often
about
the
majority
of
politics
is
often
about
populism
and
at
this
point,
climate
action
is
not
on
a
populist
agenda.
It's
just
the
reality.
B
So
that's
a
that's
a
that's
a
challenge
that
you
that
you,
that
you
have
that's
a
challenge.
The
next
council
is
going
to
face,
because
I
mean
if
you,
if
you
don't
prioritize
that
climate,
then
you
push
it
off.
So
maybe
you
have
some
short-term
wins
on
affordability,
but
some
long-term
losses.
F
There's
more
people,
there's
less
people
living
downtown
today
than
there
was
in
1961.,
and
so
I
think
when
we
talk
about
and
that's
just
because
people
are
living
in
more
space
right,
even
though
we've
got
way
more
high
rises
now
than
we
had
in
1961
way,
more
buildings
way
more
occupy
way,
more
dwellings,
it's
just
we're
now
taking
up
more
space
in
our
in
our
occupant,
our
in
our
living
quarters,
and
so
I
really
think
that
this
conversation
can
actually
be
two
sides
of
the
same
coin,
which
is
how
do
we
get
more
people
living
in
existing
heated
space
right
to
solve
both
the
climate
and
the
affordability
of
housing
components?
F
So
that's
why
we
keep
really
pushing
the
secondary
suites
piece
and
the
and
the
element
of
sort
of
right
sizing
your
building
for
your
family
unit.
I
think
that's,
a
big
part
of
the
conversation.
That's
not
really
bright,
bringing
being
brought
to
the
forefront
right
now
in
enough
enough
yeah.
In
enough
conversations.
F
Well,
bigger
is
better,
but
I
think
a
lot
of
it
is
to
do
with
people
wanting
to
stay
in
their
community
right,
so
people's
they
buy
a
house
for
their
family,
their
children
move
out,
but
they
want
to
stay
there
because
their
friends
and
their
neighborhood
and
and
their
their
hobbies
are
all
in
that
location.
That's
what
they're
comfortable
with
so
we
need
to
provide
housing,
that's
of
different
sizes
for
different
units,
but
in
the
same
neighborhoods
right,
multiple,
multiple
options
for
people
to
downsize
but
stay
in
their
in
their
neighborhood.
F
So
I
think
that's
a
big
part
of
the
conversation
too,
that
that
needs
to
be
added
to
the
planning
side
of
things.
B
That's
a
big
discussion
for
sure,
so
we
lost
quorum
at
742,
so
eric
can
probably
document
that
that
we
kind
of
proceeded
more
informally
it's
okay,
because
we
didn't
we
weren't
doing
anything
substantive.
We
don't
have
any
substantive
items
to
approve
here
and
we
weren't
proceeding
in
a
in
a
way
that
required
quorum
in
my
opinion.
So
I
think
we're
okay
with
that,
but
we'll
just
document
in
the
minutes
that
we
that
we
were
more.
B
We
became
an
informal
gathering
at
at
7
42,
rather
than
a
formal
meeting
of
the
planning
advising
committee.
But
I
will
ask
that
we
receive
the
final
report
and.
B
Thank
you.
So
that's
that's
janice!
Thank
you
so
much.
I
know
we,
you
might
have
spent
a
bit
more
time
here
than
than
you
you
planned
on
it,
but
I
appreciate
you
taking
that
time
today.
Is
it
the
are
those
real
birds?
You
have
like
some
sort
of
greats
like
calming
the
bird
noise.
In
the
background,
oh.
B
B
B
Carried
so
our
next
meeting
on
the
agenda
is
noticed
to
be,
it
says,
to
be
determined,
it's
it's
very
likely.
We
don't
have
another
meeting
this
this
term.
It's
very
likely.
This
is
my
last
meeting
with
you
guys
so
just
wanted
to
say
thank
you
to
all
of
you.
I've
appreciated
having
the
opportunity
to
share
this
committee
with
you
and
and
further
some
discussions
and
whatnot,
and
I
hope
that
the
committee
can
you
know,
live
on.
Maybe
even
do
a
bit
more.
B
I
think,
there's,
I
think,
there's
an
opportunity
for
conversations
like
this
to
to
evolve
and
to
help
more
of
a
bigger
picture
with
some
of
the
stuff
that
we
did.
I
mean
even
the
conversation
tonight.
It
might
not
be
on
things
that
are
pressing
in
front
of
us,
because
these
are
approved
documents,
but
I
do
think
that
there's
a
place
for
a
committee
like
this,
because
this
is
much
different
than
you
know.
B
I
mentioned
earlier
that
I
did
confirm
that
so
the
three
items
that
we
have
today
went
to
three
different
committees,
and
I
can
tell
you
that
when
we,
when
we
got
there,
there
isn't
as
much
balance
that
happens
at
committee
in
discussion
than
what
happens
here
in
this
committee,
because
I
find
there's
a
good
exchange
between
staff
and
you
know,
professionals
and
members
of
the
public
and
members
of
the
development
industry
at
this
committee.
That
doesn't
happen
at
standing
committees
of
council
and
I
think
it's
beneficial.
B
So
I
always
appreciate
I
wish
there's
been
more
input.
I
wish
there's
been
more
participation
for
some
of
my
colleagues
on
this,
which
which
concerns
me
for
the
future.
How
can
this
committee
move
forward
if
no
one
from
council
actually
wants
to
be
on
it?
But,
but
I
hope
that'll
change
and
I
hope
you'll
we'll
get
we'll
get
better
representation
and
maybe,
even
through
the
the
governance
renewal
of
the
governance
report
that
comes
to
the
end
of
this
term
and
approve
of
the
next
term.
B
We
can
look
at
this
committee
and
see
if
there's
more
opportunity
for
it,
because
I
do
think
it's
beneficial.
I've
appreciated
everyone,
that's
that
attends
and
david
and
corey
and
muhammad
shannon
thanks
for
sticking
it
out
for
the
rest
of
the
night
here
with
me,
but
everyone
everyone
that's
on
it
has
been.
It's
been
a
pleasure.
So
thank
you
all.
D
You
know
these
discussions
also
and
the
broader
picture
of
what's
happening
at
council
and
other
debates
that
are
kind
of
ongoing
in
the
cities
and
I
think
we're
capturing
a
very
small
part
of
it.
You
know
you
know
some
some
other
committee
members
might
be
more
aware
of
the
wider
conversation,
but
certainly
for
some
of
us
who
really
benefit
from
understanding
this
and
what's
being
presented
in
context
of
you
know
the
wider
workings
of
city
hall,
so
here
very
much
appreciate
your
kind
of
your
feedback
into
your
moderation.
H
Yeah,
thank
you
for
your
12
years
at
council.
I
mean
that's,
that's
remarkable!
It's
remarkable
for
what
you've
done
for
the
city
and
for
manatec,
and
you
should
be
very
proud,
and
you
know
for
everybody
in
the
industry.
Thank
you
for
bringing
moderation
and
and
common
sense
to
city
hall.
It's
so
so
appreciated.
Thank
you.